classic-doom

[warm prism]

AND GOD KNOWS HOW MANY SAVES

in summary

it wasnt pretty

im going to bed

fuck the floor with the Pain Elementals and ArchVille

[median cloud]

It's a good ML level which is rare

Not the hardest one tho imo

The Express Elevator to Hell keeps that title

[sharp wyvern]

teeth is very fun tho

[median cloud]

I like the map as well but it's def harder than the other ML maps

[past field]

teeth is clever in idea but absolutely terrible in execution

[sharp wyvern]

Applies to quite a few of the Cabal maps

Like Mephisto’s Mausoleum

[finite crag]

make it a 100 of Mephisto and I’ll still pick Mephisto but yeah tough choicd

[median cloud]

Its relentless by far took me the most tries out of master levels map

[finite crag]

meanwhile I despise teeth

[sharp wyvern]

Mephisto over Plutonia is nuts

[median cloud]

Mightve taken me the most tries out of any classic doom map to 100% in all honesty

The secret is just so hard to get as well at the end

[finite crag]

Everytime I see ‘trillion’ and ‘years’ in one sentence I think of The Jaunt by Steven King

LONGER THAN YOU THINK!

[finite crag]

Can I spend my trillion years on other things as well and not just playing Plutonia?

Then I’d change vote

[sharp wyvern]

It took ages for me to beat it in one sitting

saving after every floor tho is how I like to do it

[finite crag]

Express elevator to hell pissed me off

[median cloud]

I dont like saves unless the map is hard and longer than 15 minutes

[sharp wyvern]

usually my policy is that I save at the start of the level and then that’s it, or for very long/hard levels I’ll save on keys

[median cloud]

Recently did a first run of a map that took like 40 minutes to beat

No saves either

[sharp wyvern]

But TEETH just like feels like the save for every floor format works

[finite crag]

same

[sharp wyvern]

I’ve done it once without doing that tho

[median cloud]

Yeah unless u go for all secrets which screw up the order of clearing floors

[finite crag]

wirh Teeth I saved often and still hated it

[sharp wyvern]

True but I’m too dumb to notice secrets sometimes

[median cloud]

Dont sweat it I legit use the doom wiki

[sharp wyvern]

I like the Cabal maps for being interesting both in environment design and story wise but yeah sometimes they fumble the concept

[median cloud]

Im not searching for them myself lol

[sharp wyvern]

I still like TEETH tho

[finite crag]

I didn’t think Mephisto Mauso was particularly awful or bs, just boring and padded. Which is still a sin for a doom level

[sharp wyvern]

if I had to rank the cabal maps tho it would be like
Bad Dream < Mephisto’s Mausoleum < TEETH < Black Tower < Bloodsea Keep

[finite crag]

bloodsea was the best imo

[sharp wyvern]

no doubt no doubt

[finite crag]

Bad dream I can kinda have a so bad its good thing with

Mephisto over plutonia is…

Nuts. Wad

i tried nuts.wad on PS5, still major lag lol

When I tried the 100000 revenant mod my framerate flatlined

[sharp wyvern]

Ok fair 😭

Mephisto sucks but it does have fun environmental design/storytelling going for it

[untold tartan]

I've just seen the Xbox update for Classic Doom + Doom 2 to check out the mods and it seems nothing has changed the mods still do not work, or at least the mods I've been looking for which is any version of the game with Aubrey Hodges soundtrack (PSX). I was expecting to maybe one not working but none of them work. Why are they not taken down if they don't work.

[median cloud]

Bloodsea keep is good!
I think I like TEETH more now than Black Tower looking back at it
Black Tower is just so long
But there's definitely a tier break between these and Mephisto Mausoleum. On a first run that map is horrible

[sharp wyvern]

yeah idk why the creator of those levels suddenly gave tf up for mausoleum gameplay-wise😭

i guess it's kind of hard to make an IoS fight unique

[median cloud]

This and the map is alright except the ending

[sharp wyvern]

i think it's great environment wise

like the location is interesting

the revenant rising out of the coffin is fun

[mortal silo]

What happened to the shores of zDoom? Are we not getting anything from that project?

Vader made maps in btsx1&2. It'd be nice if he had a presence in btsx3.

[silver sage]

So i have a steam deck...whats the best way to play doom?

[woven swallow]

On pc of course, with a source port..

[silver sage]

Wow...fuck you

Forget i asked

[woven swallow]

I deserved that

[mortal silo]

You can get sourceports on the steamdeck

[twin mortar]

What justifies that reaction?

[silver sage]

Huh?

[twin mortar]

You got a decent answer, source ports are the way to go, you can tweak them to your liking

[silver sage]

I said i have a STEAM DECK and im wondering what are good ways to play doom on it...and some smartass says "on a pc"

I feel its justified

[twin mortar]

The Steam Deck is a PC

[silver sage]

What im guessing is that youve got ban perms and are trying to find any reason to fucking ban me

[twin mortar]

Calm down dude

I don't have ban perms, I'm not a moderator in any way, I didn't come here to spread negativity or enforce anything

I just saw your reaction and I wanted to lessen the tension

[silver sage]

Well ok then

[vale gyro]

In my experience they are finicky

I could never get several ports to work

Well, mind you I was telling somebody else what to do and not on my own

[twin mortar]

If you need to stick to Steam releases for compatibility's sake, the Unity ports are a good pick

[vale gyro]

So they could’ve been doing something wrong, or I was explaining wrong

Or their Steam Deck was just fucked

But yeah, couldn’t get GZDoom, Woof, Nyan Doom (I think?), Crispy Doom, and I think a couple others working in any capacity

They would completely fail to even read the IWAD

Even when given a direct path

So yeah, Anome’s possibly right

Though, that assumes you owned Doom 1 and 2 prior to their bundle

[twin mortar]

You can downgrade DOOM + DOOM II to Unity, remember?

-# Which is ass tbh and it confuses me that Steam is the only platform where the two releases aren't split

Well it's not ass you can downgrade but it's ass you can't have both at once

[vale gyro]

Only if you owned Doom 2 as well

You completely lack Doom 2 Unity otherwise

You can only downgrade to Doom 1

[twin mortar]

You only miss out on DOOM II and Master Levels that way

Which I know sounds like a lot, but I did the math once, Unity has one thousand levels because of the add-ons, and that was like 2 years ago, they've added a few more since

[buoyant herald]

Doom+Doom 2

[ruby sparrow]

i just finished episode 3 on duke nukem

extremely fun

my favorite episode rn

[sharp wyvern]

Just use DOOM + DOOM II off of steam…?

[silver sage]

I asked for the best way to play doom...the kex engine port is ass

[vale gyro]

if y'can get it working, Woof is your best choice

it has very good controller support

[sharp wyvern]

disagree but whatever

ig if you’re playing on controller it’s a little ass tho

[vale gyro]

I'm not a fan of the KEX port either

Ignoring the stability issues it has or had, I just have a ton of nitpicks about it

[finite crag]

og soundtrack looping issues

[hard ore]

vanilla?

[silver sage]

The only mods it has are levels aswell

Theres no variety

[vale gyro]

well, to be fair it is a port that only supports up to MBF21

[silver sage]

No brutal doom support no weapon mods or full conversion. Mods

Its kinda plain

[vale gyro]

So yeah, your only option is GZDoom

and it will almost always be GZDoom due to your requirements

unless GZDoom gets superseded, like it did to ZDoom

[silver sage]

Like the kex port is good if you just want vanilla experience in hd

[vale gyro]

though, there's much better ports for that (like Woof and DSDA-Doom)

[silver sage]

Not as easily accesable tho

[vale gyro]

By a small margin

they're as accessible as GZDoom is

and arguably even more so

[vale gyro]

plus that they have accurate emulation for Boom/MBF/etc... unlike KEX

[silver sage]

Is it bad that my favourite doom wad is myhouse? I mean its probably considered overrated now but idk it just has a unique charm to it

[vale gyro]

which is known to have compatibility issues with maps

[vale gyro]

Eh, y'can like anything you want

I personally found Overboard as my favorite

that or Escape From Slime City

[silver sage]

Ill have to try those

[vale gyro]

they're more made for vanilla

well, specifically Boom

[silver sage]

Boom?

[vale gyro]

an old ass source port that became a mapping standard

similar to MBF, which was actually a fork of Boom

[finite crag]

Yes

[vale gyro]

but yeah, idek if either WAD works with jumping/crouching on

Yeah. Escape From Slime City doesn't allow for jumping and crouching, and also discourages freelook

no warnings for Overboard, though

[silver sage]

I mean you can turn it off

[vale gyro]

yeah, ofc

I was just mentioning that as I know there's people that absolutely refuse to play without them on

I'm personally in the crowd of "I'd prefer not to have that stuff enabled"

primarily freelook, as it genuinely makes me ill

the other two are just because I prefer vanilla's physics and movement

[silver sage]

Is there a gzdoom mod that adds the idkfa ost

Preferably for doom 2

[vale gyro]

there's the original mod, but it lacks Doom 2's stuff

otherwise, y'gotta hack together your own versions using the one from the KEX port

[sharp wyvern]

yeah but like

Going Down is peak

[silver sage]

Nvm i found a wad for doom 2 that adds idkfa

[vale gyro]

I couldn't get far in Going Down

Going Down Turbo, however...

[silver sage]

Is going down just a long level?

[vale gyro]

nah, a full megawad

32 maps

[silver sage]

Oh so its a full ass games worth of content

[vale gyro]

most WADs are tbh

[sharp wyvern]

yeah but it has REKKR and shit

[vale gyro]

not many WADs aren't full megawads

[sharp wyvern]

yeah thats usually the version i replay

[vale gyro]

like, Overboard's one where it's only a few maps, not counting NG+ or the demo map

[vale gyro]

I've preferred GD Turbo's balancing

[sharp wyvern]

yeah

[vale gyro]

I barely got into map05 in normal GD

nearly done with Turbo, though

mind you, that's amazing for me

I have a really hard time going through full-length megawads

[vale gyro]

Eraser v3 fits this description, though

it's about hour long (non UV-Max), very large level

but it's a pretty good level imo

[sharp wyvern]

@finite crag has there ever been an official explanation for what a "Soul Sphere" is?

i tried seeing if there's a doom eternal codex entry but i don't think there is

[silver sage]

Any gz doom mods you guys reccomend

Ive heard that doom infinte is good

[mortal silo]

Legacy of suffering

Knee-deep in zDoom
Thunder peak
Winters fury... & It's sequel (can't remember the name rn)

[finite crag]

DOOM III

[mortal silo]

Putrefier
Insanity edged (Winters fury sequel)

[finite crag]

Like the health pickup? I don't think so. I always liked to think it was a depository of Essence (i.e. soul juice).

[sharp wyvern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1212991195744305172/1368028475801469019/image.png?ex=6816bb4d&is=681569cd&hm=41425d4d42d205f1fbe5db45caa6d412edb54fa8dff1507c756830eaa4ba18ea&

i took a look around and found this in the doom bible

obviously not canon cause yk it's the doom bible but kinda interesting i guess

it's essentially what you said anyway kind of

[vale gyro]

I like how RUST (not Legacy Of Rust) interprets it tbh

it interprets it as a UAC experiment made from studying the health bonuses

ofc, not canon in any way and is less canon than even the Doom Bible

[sharp wyvern]

oh yeah that's fun

[vale gyro]

btw, play Rust

you'll need a source port that can properly emulate v1.666 (I and the mapper personally recommend Nyan Doom), though

it's codex is a EXE which is locked behind a passcode you need to get from solving a riddle

even with hints that riddle took me like an hour to figure out

but overall, really neat WAD

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/144559-rust-e1-the-infernal-machine/

[lunar rune]

Interesting

[buoyant herald]

Are these uploaded to Doom+Doom 2

[mortal silo]

no, these are gzdoom
doom has basically 3 formats (but various [source]ports can implement different features)
vanilla, boom, and gzdoom
the big huulah about doom 1+2 is that it can play boom format (unlike the last unity sourceport)
but it still cant play gzdoom

boom format greatly expands limits & triggers
but gzdoom is capable of scripting, 3d slopes, etc

[teal ravine]

terry trap mods will always suck alot of fucking ass

[earnest nimbus]

I've been playing classic since the 90s
What's your fav way to play now??
SourcePort?
Unity Port
Kex Port
DosBox

[finite crag]

woof

[twin mortar]

Unity

I'm an official content guy, don't care much for fanmade material personally

[sharp wyvern]

Kex

just cause it has legacy of rust conveniently right there

[median cloud]

Classic stuff I play in Chocolate Doom
Limit removing in dsda doom
And sometimes the Steam port

[fervent coral]

Doom on mobile is strange

Although in my opinion quite a nice port

Expect the sensitivey when you first try it

For some reason they changed the medkit and stimpack textures

That's like the only change

[twin mortar]

It's based off the Unity port

So there's a few more nitpicky changes to be made

The reason they changed the textures is because of Red Cross getting pissy

[fervent coral]

oh k

so thats why it feels diffrent

[vale gyro]

That and they done fucked the physics and the port itself

[fervent coral]

the controls are pretty bad in my opinon

[vale gyro]

They used to be better before they changed them

[jaunty karma]

hi

does any one here have psydoom

[fervent coral]

No

i dont

[woven swallow]

sourceports

[woven swallow]

hello

[jaunty karma]

hi

[vale gyro]

I exclusively use Nyan Doom unless it’s absolutely necessary to use another source port.

[marsh whale]

nyan doom is goated

[lunar rune]

ZDOOM is my base unless DSDA is needed

I've been playing with ZDOOM for way too long to switch it just feels weird lmaooo

[dusky fractal]

https://youtu.be/kRS1BxTdSmA?si=xo_iirOhk6KjdYoK

[marsh whale]

KEX and crispy doom

[fervent coral]

I had to wipe out half my pc so zdoom is my only option

[tough steeple]

Legacy of Rust is not fucking around

I remember why I stopped playing a while back.

Got through episode one.

[sharp wyvern]

lmao yeah

E1M5, E1M6 and E1M7 are crazy 😭

[tough steeple]

The last three maps were a fucking nightmare

Second last map was basically impossible.

I don't fully understand how I did it

[sharp wyvern]

Yeah Coiled City is absolutely ridiculous

[tough steeple]

Coiled Turdy more like

Even if you aren't pistol starting (god help you) you go in with like 4 health and 10 Thrower ammo

[sharp wyvern]

You do get the Calamity Blade out of it though

[granite cypress]

bruh

just realised i started playing doom 2 after finishing the first episode of doom 1 thinking i beat the game

[sharp wyvern]

LMAOOOOO

[granite cypress]

luckily im not that far yet

[tough steeple]

Bro you haven't beaten doom 1 until you 100% Nightmare

(is that even possible?)

[finite crag]

considering that there’s a level with an impossible secret

Or rather a near-impossible one.

zero master does have 100% nightmare on all four episodes. Leave the toughest records to him and a couple of others

[tough steeple]

Ah

[azure nimbus]

yes

It's way more doable than it seems.

Though yes, e4m3 and e4m7 have broken secrets

[finite crag]

nightmare 100% in decino terms?

[azure nimbus]

100 % for nightmare would be getting all secrets. Or at least all possible secrets with the few broken ones excepted. It's doable. It's hard but doable

[finite crag]

what about items?

[azure nimbus]

idk who cares

Get em if you want but 100 % secrets is the conventional max for nightmare. The NERF episodes promote getting all items too. But a wad is rarely designed with that in mind

[finite crag]

bigmacdavis would be mad at that statement

[lunar rune]

Beating DOOM 1 imo is just beating the main three episodes, doing it on Nightmare is just an optional thing

[vale gyro]

Well, Doom 1 is just the three episodes. UDoom is the 4th.

UDoom is also technically the other 3 episodes as well, but whatever.

[sharp wyvern]

nah you gotta beat all the way to E6M8 to truly beat Doom :P

[lunar rune]

E5 and E6 technically are modded content

Despite being made by Romero

[sharp wyvern]

damn bruh even tenor is banned now

[lunar rune]

Really

[sharp wyvern]

waittt your pfp is lord english thats dope

[lunar rune]

Yeah

Lord English is easily my favourite character and his "defeat" is so dumb

[sharp wyvern]

his defeat in Homestuck proper or in the Epilogues

well both were sorta dumb

[sharp wyvern]

Kind offfff 🤷‍♀️

they're not actually "Doom" like Thy Flesh Consumed is but with the release of DOOM + DOOM II they are now like... official expansions effectively for it

doesn't matter though since regardless beating "Doom" wouldn't include them even as expansions lol like how you don't play NRFTL to beat Doom II

[lunar rune]

Both lmao

[finite crag]

k but where's the buckethead and thorr ost?💔

[sharp wyvern]

they didn't let Nightdive incorporate it

[finite crag]

unsazed

[sharp wyvern]

probably smth to do with money

same as why Aubrey Hodges' PSX OST isn't in DOOM + DOOM II i presume

in fact Aubrey Hodges' OST is so removed from the game that they even changed the MIDIs of the featured mod "Double Impact" to remove the Doom 64 Theme reference 😭

[lunar rune]

I mean.. there's no achievement for beating Sigil

[sharp wyvern]

i kinda like his homestuck one it brings everything full circle

[finite crag]

There is

[sharp wyvern]

there is an achievement for beating Sigil 1

[lunar rune]

Oh

Misremembered, my fault

[sharp wyvern]

and beating Sigil 2 would have an achievement but Nightdive have stated they can't add it because of console platform restrictions

[lunar rune]

Ohhh okay

[lunar rune]

My main issue is that Lord English, an unstoppable time traveling god that has nearly destroyed literally everything is stopped by.. the Green Sun being removed

My idea is that they just escaped him

[sharp wyvern]

isn't he defeated in Act 7 via The Juju

yk it unleashes the main 4 kids on him

[lunar rune]

It's up to interpretation actually

It's not exactly stated what happens to him

Vriska unleases the Juju but nothing else is shown, it just shows the next Genesis Frog being created after that

[sharp wyvern]

the implication is presumably that the beta kids pop out and kill him

till the epilogues released and it was changed to them popping out and then dying </3 and then alt calliope eats him

[lunar rune]

Gotta love the Epilogues

[sharp wyvern]

Gotta love Homestuck^2

especially how it was actually getting good recently and then they decided to do a 2nd capital r Retcon for 0 reason 💔

[lunar rune]

Seriously?

I haven't bothered with it because it just doesn't seem that good

[sharp wyvern]

when it was the old epilogues team it was AWFUL

but for the past year and a half it's been a new team (INCLUDING NO HUSSIE AND KATE!!!) and it's been like Act 5 levels of awesome

like they made Vriska good

we... should probably move this to general or a dm if we keep discussing homestuck lol

[lunar rune]

Oh my lord

[lunar rune]

The channels outside of general, DOOM Eternal and DOOM 2016 are fairly inactive so I feel like any conversation could happen and no one would really mind

General has a lot of people talking in it at once

[sharp wyvern]

kinda true but maybe we should go to dm just to be safe lol

[sharp wyvern]

yea i was shocked lol i was legit rooting for her

[lunar rune]

Fair enough

[thorn jungle]

hypothetically, if someone masters the timing of their LMB click and the speed of the projectile

you can kill the Icon of Sin with the BFG, right?

who here has done that?

[vale gyro]

No

If the IoS enemy was actually exposed? Yeah.

In a normal sense? No, not at all.

You require splash damage to kill the IoS, which is why the rocket launcher is even required

The BFG, however, is a glorified shotgun with zero splash damage

[azure nimbus]

The Icon of Sin is a concept with several technically unrelated parts. You have the spawn cubes and their spawn locations (placed separately). The wall, and the thing that receives damage. The thing that receives damage has 200 health and does nothing other than being loud and ending the level with an explosion effect when it dies. It receives damage just like anything else. But the face of the icon of sin is literally just a wall. It's a texture. Not the actual monster. When you fire rockets through the hole, it's hitting the back of a wall. Since explosions have infinite height, it's able to affect the monster part waaay downwards. The hole is shaped like a hallway for the rocket then a big pit. The damageable part is in the pit. You need the inf height explosion to hit it.

[thorn jungle]

huh, interesting

[azure nimbus]

flip on noclip and check it out

[woven swallow]

fuck you vega

[finite crag]

thats mean

[finite crag]

anyone wanna watch me play doom?

have never really played it before and thought it would be fun if someone watched me fuck around with it

[thorn jungle]

mee

[finite crag]

nvm i got super bored a refunded the game 😭

[thorn jungle]

awh

[finite crag]

it was really cool though

[thorn jungle]

Doom 1 + 2 on steam right?

[finite crag]

yes

ima go back to playing postal 2 though, you wanna watch that? lol

[woven swallow]

me

[woven swallow]

you missed out on peak

[ruby sparrow]

im at e4m4 on duke nukem 3d rn

imo this game better than any classic doom game so far

[junior gate]

what does the FREE HISSY! part of e2m3 even do

can you get there?

[silver sage]

I legit cant get doom infinite working

It keeps having parsing errors

[silver sage]

@vale gyro you seem to know about this kinda stuff...any ideas?

[paper yoke]

I got a question!

Can someone link me or at least point me in the right direction to the latest version of ZDaemon? I want to try it. Looks very interesting.

[vale gyro]

Like maybe your version of the mod is either too old or your GZDoom version is too new

[silver sage]

Is there a way to downgrade on linux?

[vale gyro]

Y’could build an older version yourself or check the version archive on the GZDoom website

[paper yoke]

We need a port that directly connects your hard drive to the NSA database

FedDoom

[vale gyro]

Should literally just be on the ZDaemon website

[paper yoke]

I got it :3

[heavy robin]

Hello guys. I've been searching a doom mod with a similar sprite resolution to doom 2 rpg. Those sprites are more detailed and look cool imo. I'd like to get some help

[lunar rune]

Seems like the sprites for it are on the internet, you can use SLADE to replace sprites iirc

I've never done it personally though

[woven swallow]

hello, kenny here

[mortal silo]

Hi Kenny

[woven swallow]

hello mutton

[mortal silo]

🙏 hi five

[hearty turtle]

Anyone up for a playtest in Doom + Doom 2?

[queen zealot]

Me

[eager mural]

Classic Doom is available in the Play Store. I want to buy it but I'm worried about the gameplay... I'm afraid it's shitty since it's in a cellphone

[surreal wharf]

my boy, doom runs everywhere you want, it will be an good gameplay

[hearty turtle]

I'm three hours late, but I'm here right now... Just try and ping me again

[hard wolf]

I only really payed that version for the Legacy of Rust tbh. Normally I'd play the individual games.

[woven swallow]

it's dogshit don't buy it on play store

[finite crag]

Is LoR even possible with fast monsters??

maybe on the lowest difficulty

but UV fast, eh I dunno, I haven't all of LoR even

I gave up after level 3 lol

[woven swallow]

I’ll attempt it

[median cloud]

Playing some Doom 2 levels in UV-Fast

really ups the difficulty but not sure if it's in a good way. Requires me to play very passively

I guess nightmare is better for fastpaced gameplay

[finite crag]

Lots of trial and error and memorization on where every sing,e hitscannie is

I'm currently making a slaughtermap but I'm not sure about implementing hitscanners. It'll be very few for sure

[median cloud]

And pinkies are just insane on uv-fast

[hearty turtle]

Well, it's a creatively modified version of Doom 2.... You won't get all the surprises if you're not very familiar with the base game ...

But still.... let's give today another try. All others are invited as well, to playtest "Trap Doom 2"

[median cloud]

Ranked the first 2 doom games based on how much I like the levels but sadly cant post images here

[twin mortar]

It's ass, don't buy it

[eager mural]

Yeah, I figured lol

[daring dome]

Classic Doom 1 & 2 will those mods won't work on steam ?

[vale gyro]

What mods?

[daring dome]

Project Brutality 4.0

[vale gyro]

Yeah, the port seen on Steam only has support for up to MBF21 mods (and also it's own format, ID24)

it has no support for GZDoom-specific features

you'll need to grab the IWADs from the Steam download and then use GZDoom

[daring dome]

What is my only option coderpenguin ?

[vale gyro]

this ^

[daring dome]

Can you send a link so I can look at it

[vale gyro]

check your DMs in about 30 secs

[daring dome]

Got it

[vale gyro]

Plutonia is making me suffer

why did I decide to do this shit on UV?

[halcyon willow]

Because it's fun c:

[vale gyro]

It's been anything but :(

[vale gyro]

Anyways, I finished Episode 1 of RUST (not Legacy of Rust)

final map was absurd, still need to play Episode 2 and E1M9

[halcyon willow]

It's funny how many people butt heads with Plutonia when it's arguably the most influential mapset when it comes to doom map combat design

[hard wolf]

I don't feel there's any problem with Plutonia on UV, however I'd struggle on UV+.

[median cloud]

What's UV+?

[vale gyro]

UV with multiplayer items and enemies iirc

[median cloud]

Oh yeah that's pretty insane for plutonia lol

[vale gyro]

It was introduced in one of the official ports

[median cloud]

Map 01 has a spiderdemon

@vale gyro did you play legacy of rust yet?

[vale gyro]

Episode 1 only

Didn’t even want to try Episode 2 just because of how bad M6 and M7 were

[median cloud]

How did it compare to plutonia?

[vale gyro]

I’ve just started Plutonia proper

And I did E1 of LoR a while ago

Around the same time it released

So I can’t give any opinion

Plus the fact I didn’t do LoR on UV

[vale gyro]

Like, this is the first time I’ve gotten past map03

Usually I quit because I just get bored

[median cloud]

Hope your boredom isn't related to the difficulty because it'll get rough then

You use WASD + mouse right?

[vale gyro]

Yeah

[vale gyro]

Honestly? It wasn’t really.

But yeah, I knew I needed to play Plutonia

And I knew I needed to eventually start playing on UV and not HMP

So why not kill two birds with one stone?

I am deeply regretting that choice now

[median cloud]

Yeah I would've advised doing that in literally any other iWAD first haha
Did you enjoy TNT?

[vale gyro]

Yeah

[vale gyro]

I’ve did the entirety of UDoom on UV in the past

[median cloud]

UDoom E4 is pretty challenging on UV, possibly the best prac you can get for Plutonia difficulty wise

[vale gyro]

Thing was that I did that ages ago

And I’ve basically only played on HMP

Planning on doing RUST (not LoR) Episode 2 on UV, too

[median cloud]

I pretty much play everything on UV only real difference is the monster count anyway

Can't really remember how much different UV is from HMP

[vale gyro]

Pretty much just monster count

[halcyon willow]

monster placement, health, ammo, when you get weapons can all change based on difficulty

some wads even change the geometry and key placement

mutabor completely alters your start position and progression

[median cloud]

Does anyone know Daerik, speedrunner? I'm checking some of his runs, he has a bunch of them on YouTube. But they kinda look like TAS gameplay. Yet I see no mention of it at all

@halcyon willow apparently you're also aware of Daerik's Sunlust D2All, despite being beaten by Kinetic his gameplay looks a bit fishy

He never misses a single shot at all

[vale gyro]

Yeah, dunno why I didn’t even mention all of that

[woven swallow]

lower the difficulty? save more? look up a guide?

[vale gyro]

No. I refuse to lower the difficulty in this case.

I am also running on my usual saving rules for the most part.

[finite crag]

save scumming doesnt exist

[shut pulsar]

#classic-doom

[finite crag]

I don't like plutonia as much as others but it's ironically the one that inspired me to continue working on my DOOM game

[lunar rune]

Saving more shouldn't be a tip - imo it's nowhere near as rewarding to beat a level if I'm saving every minute

[amber blaze]

Yooo I love classic doom. Who else here likes playing Russian Overkill?

[lone dock]

i was playing episode 2 when i suddenly heard sample like in "quest pistols - дни гламура" on 0:08, did i misheard something or what was it?

[tropic zenith]

The music riff in E2M1 is pretty common in music inspired by rock

[lone dock]

? that wasn't riff but fast synth jingle, it played only once

check it yourself

[tropic zenith]

Oh, I didn't know what u had meant then, I'm sorry

[woven swallow]

by save more I mean save when you're having a miserable time with a level not literally every minute. If you're constantly dying to the same fight and aren't consistent yet, it makes sense to save before it, practice, and work through it. Then come back later and try beating the level single segment with a better understanding to said level. It’s about learning and enjoying the game, not brute forcing suffering.

[tropic zenith]

By influential do you mean normalizing chaingunner and revenant spam?

Custom mapping trends vary from person to person and slaughtermaps, while common, have more to do with Nuts than almost any other classic, well known maps that set the player against monolithic hordes of the same monster with plenty of ammo

For the longest time, people focused more on architecture flexing than they did with the gameplay unless a community project strictly demanded limits on architecture like 10sectors

TeamTNT did a lot unique but it was prototypical in a way, many maps from the 90s reflected a very new understanding of the emergent systems possible in Doom maps

A lot of the reason Sigil is way better than Romero's own maps in Doom 1 and II is because of the experience he gained in designing 3d maps and the encounters in them

[amber blaze]

Man I love doom

[lunar rune]

Yeah that's fair enough

[ebon grove]

Yeah it depends HOW you're saving. Because there's a difference between saving every moment after killing just ONE enemy (which is silly) versus saving after a while within a level (assuming it's a long level).

[tropic zenith]

When it comes to official maps, I usually recommend saving before a really big door or before an unguarded powerup

[grizzled temple]

Should I play Sigil 2 and final doom before or after 64? (I've beaten doom 1+ep4, doom 2, and the modern games but those dont matter here)

also ive beaten sigil just now

[vale gyro]

do whatever tbh

I personally did Sigil 2 before even TNT

[grizzled temple]

alr ill do 64 considering thats the most official out of the others

after 64 the only game ill have to beat is doom 3 outside of final doom

[somber canopy]

My play order is wadfusion list

[fresh wolf]

hello

[sharp wyvern]

i think calling plutonia "chaingunner and revenant spam" is a little disingenuous lol

TNT is actual chaingunner spam, Plutonia has them placed more strategically

[sharp wyvern]

probably before 64

cause then you're not going classic -> 64 era -> classicyou're just going classic -> 64

[finite crag]

Placed strategically on a monster closet behind you

[sharp wyvern]

you are severely overestimating how many of those are in plutonia lol

[stuck echo]

Should I play Blood or Hexen first?

[sharp wyvern]

Blood

[stuck echo]

Ok cool

[grizzled temple]

I’m going back to classic after 64 lol

I also still need to beat master levels

[sharp wyvern]

how i loathe the master levels

[sharp wyvern]

fair enough :P

[grizzled temple]

Also I know this belongs in the other channel but 64 is stupid easy

I may restart to change my difficulty

[mighty star]

Hexen if you like wandering around trying to solve puzzles

[whole crown]

Guys, anyone know a good doom mod that is doom but challenging, like scythe type things?

[tropic zenith]

Hell Revealed 2

[night brook]

I genuinely like the Gallery Experience WAD.

[halcyon willow]

Nope. Scythe is a direct evolution of Plutonia. Tight combat focused layouts that are mostly abstract concepts. Go2it is widely seen as the first slaughter map (although an argument can be made for this title to go to Courtyard).
And then it gave people the taste for difficulty being its own source of fun.
The memes around revenant spam are overblown. I've put more revenants in a single fight than the entirety of plutonia. There aren't actually that many monsters in plutonia, even go2it only has a couple hundred

[halcyon willow]

Sigil isn't better than doom 1 episode 1. Sigil isn't better than the living end or E4M1. They're harder yes, but better? Debatable

[tropic zenith]

That one guy was right that I actually got Evilution and Plutonia mixed up, also I do really enjoy Scythe (got me into the band Symphony X)

I'm guessing that I am basing my opinion of Sigil being better is because it feels like he's less constrained by 90s tech with it, though I should also probably admit that my tastes are weird and I think that Thy Flesh Consumed is peak classic official 90s content

[finite crag]

I started on Be Gentle! Thinking it was the equivalent of Hurt Me Plenty...

It wasn't

I still had more obnoxious encounters in Plutonia than Scythe... sometimes

The thing with Scythe is that Scythe starts off easily and suddenly becomes unhinged in the third episode but Plutonia starts screwing you over very early

[grizzled temple]

Ah ok

[halcyon willow]

I think it's worth pointing out when people like me say "Plutonia is the most influential/best/blah blah iwad" it's from a level designer's perspective. Plenty of players bounce of Plutonia, especially on UV. It is mean and deliberately so. But what it did was show a wave of fresh level designers what you could get away with (pretty much anything) and that if you went straight into spicy combat people would still enjoy it. It's a masterclass in managing expectations. The first map has every enemy except the cyberdemon/mastermind which sets the tone extremely quickly, "we're not here to fuck around". One of my strongest memories is of the fight in map 04 I think it is where you go up a set of stairs in a fleshy evil as fuck room and you flip a switch that reveals an archvile with 4 barons body blocking you from being able to quickly take it out. When you see that set up it's a real "oh someone thought about this fight and went out of their way to make it mean". And then you have insane (for the time) set ups like Hunted that could be seen as the first combat puzzle.
You can draw a line from Plutonia to Scythe, to Alien Vendetta to Skillsaw maps to Ribbiks maps or to Eviterity. Forks from Scythe 2 and Alien Vendetta to slaughter stalwarts like Deus Vult and Sunder then further to modern GZDoom slaughter like my own work .
If Plutonia didn't exist then work like this would still have happened at some point in some fashion. But Plutonia was what came along and it came along early. It really blew past "accepted mapping tropes" and did its own thing that has inspired now multiple generations of mappers

[zenith berry]

TAG1 is basically modern Doom’s Plutonia.

[finite crag]

That's an interesting way of putting it

Though I found Plutonia to be really damn crazy on UV lol

I was just playing my own Slaughter map on the highest difficulty... well I made it tough alright
Tho is it normal for a player to play passively in a slaughter map?

like, running for cover, kiting out certain enemies when there are no invulnerabiltiy spheres nearby?

[prime lava]

i mean if the fight allows it and you arent playing for a quick time then thats just often gonna be the safest way to do it

[finite crag]

yeah

Tho there is one part where you get an invulnerability sphere and a room of hitscanners.

Heck, the only way to finish the level is to kill. every. single. enemy.

My previous doom clones were more traditional 'find keys, traverse tough terrain, kill enemies along the way' type of levels with environmental storytelling, this current one has very simple environments and just pure carnage

Tho Plutonia was an influential factor for me, in the sense that the focus is far less on pathfinding and secrets than TNT (tho Plutonia's later levels are what it'd be like if TNT had master levels)

Oh yeah and DOOM 2's master levels were... painfully average mostly.

[sharp wyvern]

TAG is essential NuFinal Doom

[sharp wyvern]

IMO sigil is better than TFC :P

[tender mural]

Easter eggs?

[tropic zenith]

You have only mentioned popular mapsets

There is way more to play than just a handful of megawads

Also that is an INCREDIBLE amount of time to glaze over between Alien Vendetta and when Skillsaw made stuff like Vanguard

It's odd how little people talk about how influential Hexen was on ZDoom mapping

New Doom being so dark green focused and having a hell energy sword definitely makes me think of Demon Eclipse by Vader

Dark green as in for Doomguy and sentinels and other UAC military tech

[halcyon willow]

Iconic, genre defining mapsets that inspire other mappers

I'm not sure if you talk much to mappers but that's the world I inhabit

[tropic zenith]

Still, I just feel it is an incomplete list

Maybe I had way too much time on my hands when I was younger

[halcyon willow]

It's just what I pulled out of my head

As examples

And "the big popular mapsets" are what mappers look to most often for inspiration. Things that have been critically aclaimed, agreed as "good stuff". There plentyh to chose from after 30 years of mapping, but go back to 1996 and a lot of paths lead back to Plutonia

Anyway, it's not that important, I just like to muse on these things

Mapping nerd lol 🤓

[tropic zenith]

It sounds kinda like we're each more interested in the maps best known by the boom/vanilla and zdoom communities

That said, it's criminal how many projects get left unfinished that could have gone on to be influential

Having played so much custom zdoom content, my only rebuttal to the idea that people need to be challenged with difficulty is that excuses poor balance

[halcyon willow]

I used to religiously play through New Stuff every week (back when I had free time lol)

Definitely found some .... interesting experiences

I also did community playtesting for anyone who asked for 2-3 years

[tropic zenith]

Based, thank you for your service

[halcyon willow]

It was fun, but it got pretty tiring by the end. Started feeling like a job so I called it quits

(Now it's literally my job as a game publisher lol)

Good new is, while there are a number of iconic wads that a lot of people look to/get inspired by, the actual results are wide and varied. There's definitely something for everyone in the doom community and new ideas being experimented with all the time

The last 5 years in particular have seen a ridiculous amount of good mapsets being released

[tropic zenith]

People meme on Ultimate Torment and Torture but I think it was pretty neat, and I often take comfort in playing joke map sets that had a lot of effort like Deathz0r Online

[halcyon willow]

It hasn't aged the best, but for the time it was revolutionary

I did enjoy it a lot back when I played it

[tropic zenith]

Damn, tfw that's about the amount I've time I've been out of playing

[halcyon willow]

(Plagiarism aside lol)

[tropic zenith]

Have you played Zen Dynamics? I feel that has had quite the lasting impact on the modding scene

[halcyon willow]

I went through a phase in 2010 where I was all about the gameplay mods so there was a good chance I played it back then.

[drifting fiber]

Hello I feel like acknowledging that I'm mad at myself because I reached the end of TNT's MAP21 for the first time, not knowing where the hell I was supposed to go after killing the Cyberdemon and everything else that took forever to reach until that point, and I was trying to kill the Arch-vile that spawned by the soul sphere I found since it got out and was worried about it reviving the Cyberdemon (it wasn't flowing in my head that the archies couldn't revive Cyberdemons.) Anyway after finding it in the darkness and realizing it wasn't targetting me I tried to kill it with rockets and it instantly re-targetted to and killed me after like 45 solid minutes of slow progression to that point. I then found out right after quitting the session there that the big box outside that had a bunch of monsters in it was exactly where I had to go to click the switch to end the level. I have to get to that point of the level again just to end it properly and I'm so mad at myself for not registering that the arch-vile wasn't being a threat to me and not checking back at that structure after crossing whatever linedef or thing it was to lower it.

[sharp wyvern]

Ouchhh

[drifting fiber]

it only really hurts because the arch-vile was literally paying no attention to me. it was fighting an arachnotron

and i chose like the worst way of dealing with it

i could've just ran by everything and investigated that box from earlier. it would probably have started targetting other enemies afterward anyway since there were projectiles flying everywhere

[drifting fiber]

welp. i guess it's fine that i fucked up that session because my video editing software isn't accepting/recognizing the recording as acceptable even though it's not corrupted at all.

fucking filmora

[daring dome]

don't go backwards dan keep moving forward I believe in you on your own doom mod achievements

[keen birch]

Y’all know if its possible to play myhouse on the steam port of doom

[finite crag]

lmao

[keen birch]

erm

i guess thats a no then? lol

[oblique plaza]

Speed of Doom 2010 megawad

[whole crown]

Thank you.

[vale gyro]

No. You require to use GZDoom.

[woven swallow]

it's not possible, because the steam version is a purist port and myhouse is way beyond that. So you need to play it on Gzdoom

[woven swallow]

i can name a lot
Sunlust
Sunder
dimensions
italo
no chance
entropy
fractured worlds
Stardate 20x6
Stardate 20x7
Holy hell
Okuplok
Slaughterfest 2011
SlaughterMax
Cosmogenesis
Abandon
Chillax 9.7.3 + chmapfix (the map won't load without chmapfix)
C-shock
JunkFood
4Starduster
Haste
Flotsam
Summer of 69
Magnolia_uv

[median cloud]

A lot of these are way harder than Scythe lol

u just went for the hardest mappacks you know

Go with Alien Vendetta, Speed Of Doom, Hell Revealed stuff

[vale gyro]

Yeah… he said hard, but not “took over a decade to even to ITYTD Single Segment” hard

[median cloud]

Like chillax isn't even possible solo

[whole crown]

I like hard levels.

[median cloud]

Well then try the ones he listed but they're like way way way harder than Scythe

[whole crown]

I'll try them, thank you very much for your help bro.

[whole crown]

Eh.

dw I will bro

[vale gyro]

Just note this is literally Okuplok

A mega-slaughter map

[median cloud]

big ups if he finishes one of these maps without save scumming or giving up

[vale gyro]

It only just recently (as in within the last month) was able to be done UV Single Segment

[woven swallow]

i mean...bro's not lying

play at your own risk....

[vale gyro]

Aren’t like most of those WADs listed have enemy counts in the thousands?

Or am I just stupid

[whole crown]

W.

[vale gyro]

But honestly? Play NERF.

It’s a Nightmare-only mapset, though

[stuck echo]

Can you look up and down in Blood?

Or is it like Doom

[pliant bloom]

you can

[stuck echo]

Letsgoooo

[pliant bloom]

Have fun living... again

[stuck echo]

I will

[finite crag]

Okuplok is also a full-length video game length almost

Like, doesn't it take literal hours to beat the map? In the ol' days it would've been considered a full-on game

[median cloud]

Scythe like map packs are imo: Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed, Speed of Doom

[finite crag]

I have not played it but I hear that UV-max'ing it no-save was considered miraculous

[median cloud]

Maybe ancient aliens and eviniterity but they're imo a lot easier

[median cloud]

the only uv max is 6 hours long. D2ALL has been maxed in like 2 hours

[finite crag]

still insane

[median cloud]

It takes 3 hours to finish ALL of sunlust

it takes double the time to finish okuplok (one map)

[finite crag]

I tried playing Sunlust on KEX but it gave me an error, I guess the game tried to save me from myself

And I hear okuplok wasn't even fully finished. Guy just made a full game-length map and more or less disappeared

[median cloud]

I feel like there are a lot more scythe 2 level mappacks but I can't think of them right now

[finite crag]

I have not played all of scythe 2 ,eventually hit by fatigue
I did boot up and play the final level, but I did not beat it on UV lol. It is insane

[median cloud]

Oh plutonia 2 and prcp are also good picks

Deus Vult maybe, Survive in Hell, new gothic movement

[woven swallow]

any build engine game allows you to look up and down

[twin mortar]

Hot take:

Thy Flesh Consumed is one of the best pieces of Classic DOOM media

[median cloud]

I agree

Way better than Doom E2 and E3 and arguably as good as E1

[twin mortar]

It IS E4 though 😭

[median cloud]

Edited 😉

[twin mortar]

There we go

I just dig the aesthetic. It feels quite grim

[tropic zenith]

Personally, I prefer Scythe 2 over 1

Maybe I liked the architecture and style of 2 more than brutal gameplay of 1

[tropic zenith]

E4M2 is a gigantic brain map

Absolutely galaxy brained

[twin mortar]

Is it?

I think it's fairly simple

[tropic zenith]

Idk, it's very unique to me in how much it can do in a small space (with contemporary limitations as well)

I forget which map but the one that's basically an entire castle with the lava pit and teleporter in the center is badass as well

I'm goofy ahh

[twin mortar]

M6 probably

[sharp wyvern]

that is a hot take

i respect it though

[soft crown]

Earthless gets pretty tough after episode 2

[tropic zenith]

I know TFC isn't the best ever but it has a strong vibe and is more fun and challenging on repeat playthroughs than most of the rest of Doom 1 imo

Maps in Doom II occasionally get too experimental for me, like the trick walkways in Map29 where you're forced to choose which is the correct path or else you just get killed in a really petty manner

Nirvana is also just broken, it's way too easy to softlock the level

[mortal silo]

E2 and e3 are very good do

[twin mortar]

Nobody told me Legacy of Rust was peak

[sharp wyvern]

HAVE YOU NOT PLAYED TILL NOW?!?!

[vestal flower]

It really is

[twin mortar]

Nope!

[sharp wyvern]

shittt have fun

[twin mortar]

First time with SIGIL too

[sharp wyvern]

what level are you at?

[twin mortar]

Though I beat that one a few hours before that message

[twin mortar]

E2M2

[sharp wyvern]

Are you doing the D + D2 port or smth

[sharp wyvern]

What did you think?

[twin mortar]

Yes

It was cool, loved the artstyle, experimental design was dope

[sharp wyvern]

Personally I love the first Sigil I think it’s on par with the rest of Doom 1
Sigil II I don’t really like as much

[twin mortar]

Yet to play it

[sharp wyvern]

I think you’ll enjoy sigil 2 tbh

[twin mortar]

Gonna replay D2 and MLs after LoR; then Final DOOM for the first time, THEN SIGIL II

[sharp wyvern]

YOU HAVENT PLAYED FINAL DOOM??!??!!

I shouldn’t be shocked given abt 5% of this server has probably

[vestal flower]

I have, it was pretty good, honestly a little underrated

[finite crag]

I also downloaded okuplok through Kex Engine...

then deinstalled it (playing on PS5) because my PS5 flatlines everytime I save it

Also the opening platforming pillar section feels weird

Probably one of the few maps where there is no shame in save-scumming and playing on lowest difficulty. Who let that man cook

[finite crag]

It is... acceptable

I like TNT, Plutonia is a case of 'I love it, I just don't like it'

There's some levels I do enjoy and level design is mostly gorgeous, and it inspired me for my game design. I just don't enjoy it as much as I want to. But I do have respect for Plutonia and the Casali bros' work.

[vestal flower]

Yeah, they need more official episodes from wad makers

[finite crag]

Maximum doom?

Jk I have not played that but I am fascinated by the fact that it exists. id legit just downloaded 1800+ wads and sold em on disc

Master levels for DOOM 2 is also very fascinating. It is treated as some kind of boogeyman for classic doom, but imo it wasn't bad. It was mostly just mediocre, though a few levels were awful.

I also got a Plutonia mandela effect

[drowsy beacon]

Black Tower of the master levels was pure agony

[finite crag]

It's sad because the architecture is really good, but it was long and obtuse and not paced well. Could have been much more

[finite crag]

I wanted to like this one. Good architecture, level could've been cool if it was paced better and was less obtuse. But alas.

[drowsy beacon]

yeah i thought it was pretty cool level design but man it was rough trying to get through it blind

[vale gyro]

Tried playing FoxFire... no

I can barely do normal slaughter, I 100% can't do compact-slaughter on UV

[sharp wyvern]

I like that one sort of :P

[drowsy beacon]

it's a cool concept but it was such a slog

[stuck echo]

What are some games similar to quake? (Not dusk, ive played that one :)

[vale gyro]

HROT?

[native anchor]

Is the Nightdive port truly the best way to play Classic Doom?

[sharp wyvern]

🤷‍♀️ it's subjective

i really like it personally

[vale gyro]

Highly subjective like Hoovy said

I personally despise it to a point where even I, the GZDoom hater, would rather use GZ than the Nightdive port

[native anchor]

It's at least the version that could actually run on Steam Deck. Nothing else worked, we tried.

[vale gyro]

Ooooh wait yeah, you're that guy I helped a while back

[sharp wyvern]

I suppose the Nightdive port is pretty good for convenience

[soft crown]

For a quick and dirty way to play classic DOOM it's pretty good. But I've run into compatibility issues with anything that isn't a map (i.e. VSmooth and Sound Bulb work just fine in DSDA, but in Kex the former doesn't work and the latter breaks the sound handling completely)

Can't load multiple files from the menu so you have to play WADs that already have the dehacked stuff embedded and not a separate deh file

The only real advantage on PC is if you hop between Steam Deck and desktop frequently

Personally I prefer DOOM Retro but just because that's the only non-Kex port that plays nice with my launcher

Also the DOOM Wiki rates Kex's accuracy as "very high" so it's at least reportedly representative of the classics for casual players (edit for clarification)

[vale gyro]

Just random question, what launcher do you use?

[soft crown]

DOOM Mod Loader 2.X

DSDA and Nyan DOOM both throw the -iwad only takes one argument error

[vale gyro]

Why use DML over something like ZDL?

[soft crown]

I haven't tried ZDL but of the launchers I have tried DML feels less painful to use. Mostly because it has a dedicated refresh button when I add new WADs; if DOOM Runner, DOOM Launcher, or Rocket Launcher had one or background scanning for when I add new files then I probably glossed over it

[vale gyro]

Ah

I haven't used ZDL in quite a bit, and barely used any other launcher

so I wouldn't be able to tell you

[soft crown]

Fair

When I mained DSDA I had a jerry rigged solution where I ran a batch file that opened DSDA Launcher and my WADs folder, but that whole setup added unnecessary friction for me

Plus DSDA, being meant for speedrunners, is a little hardcore for me since I just play vanilla/BOOM/MBF maps and barely any gameplay mods

[vale gyro]

I've just used Nyan Doom for a while personally

DSDA lacked features that I liked

[soft crown]

What kind?

My only real problem with DRetro is the lack of a GUI for settings

[vale gyro]

Colored blood (that's not just dehacked support for it), darkened background in all menus, showing the SSG in ARMS

also a way to quickly see if I had berserk or mega armor

[vale gyro]

I've tried DRetro. Personally not my thing.

I'm also a weirdo who actually does play with the correct complevel

also, I like being able to play WADs that require older versions of Doom (like RUST, which requires v1.666)

[soft crown]

Hard to argue against 100% accuracy tbh

There's this one person I know who takes retro accuracy pretty seriously, plays on original hardware if he can, but for some reason insists on GZDoom

Even though DOOM (Strict) is still like 10 miles off

[vale gyro]

Oh I don't even use GZDoom unless absolutely necessary

I hate how ZDoom physics feel

[soft crown]

Oh thank God it's not just me then

The physics plus that weird rendering sheen GZDoom adds ruins it

I even struggle playing indies that use GZDoom because it always feels off

[finite crag]

at least it doesnt have wall bouncing

[vale gyro]

I also just don't like that it takes forever to setup

because of the settings menu being bloated, missing settings I outright need, and it just having horrendous default settings

[tropic zenith]

It's me

I'm just joking, I like making custom content is all

Usually I play with anti aliasing off anyway except for far textures so they don't get a really bad moire effect

[vale gyro]

I honestly think GZDoom is probably the least beginner friendly due to this

I've never understood why people are always like "oh GZDoom's the easiest!"

when it's either as hard or even harder to use and setup than other source ports

[tropic zenith]

G/ZDoom are really for people who are super serious about extensive modding, I would not necessarily recommend it for casual play

[soft crown]

Brutal Doom and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race /lh

I occasionally play GZD for the sake of mods but I don't think I've done a full playthrough of a megawad with a gameplay mod in at least 3 years

[tropic zenith]

Real, I just hate how unbalanced it is, as much as I love being able to grab lost souls

Really poor audio mixing, sloppy code that's incredibly difficult to learn anything from, etc

[soft crown]

I think the balance fits with the power fantasy. At least that's why I liked it way back when

[soft crown]

I used to use a crappy Bluetooth speaker with my old desktop and I'm pretty sure BD brought that thing to its knees

[vale gyro]

BD also just has tons of filler features that bloat the whole mod imo

[soft crown]

I still do not see how the tanks and mechs fit in

But one of my favorite gameplay mods, Live Through DOOM, came from it so it's not all bad. Makes it play closer to a survival horror

Good fun even if I'm shit at it

[tropic zenith]

BD doesn't have a very cohesive art direction either since it mixes and matches too many png graphics and stuff, I greatly prefer DoomEnhanced as a retro enhancement style thing

[soft crown]

Oh man that reminds me I have a "DOOM Remastered" mod I slapped together from different other mods to create a truly awful classic DOOM experience

Angled weapon sprites, HD sounds, a desaturated and more contrasty color palette, excessive gore, I think I threw Smooth Doom in there as well

It doesn't change the gameplay at all but it's a very cursed combination

Screenshot in #screenshots

[vale gyro]

Honestly? That's probably the good thing about it.

Looks and sounds different, but the actual gameplay is the same

[tropic zenith]

Us

[tropic zenith]

What I like a lot about old style mods is what all they can do by changing the flavor and presentation, and leaving the fundamentals the same, often by reskinning weapons from other games zdoom supports

[wide sinew]

I personally love it. It's essentially the previous Unity port for modern consoles but better. I actually played through all of Doom, Doom II, Final Doom, No Rest For the Living, Sigil, and Sigil II for the first time using the Unity ports, and I had a blast, and I'd imagine playing through them in the Nightdive version is even better.

[vale gyro]

ERASER v3 is probably my favorite mod for Boom

it shows how far even a partial conversion can go

especially just for it being Boom

[wide sinew]

And it's FOR SURE the best console port of Doom. Like, no other console port comes even CLOSE to being as good as the Nightdive port.

[vale gyro]

I actually rate Unity higher than Nightdive

[wide sinew]

Why tho

[vale gyro]

only because of how many issues the Nightdive port has had

severe amounts of crashing, the fact the download servers keep going down constantly, horrendous netcode

[wide sinew]

But they've been fixed tho haven't they?

Like, the Unity port had tons of issues as well when it first released

[soft crown]

Mostly but there are still some smaller issues that crop up that I'm aware of

[wide sinew]

If the Unity port is any indication, those will probably be fixed eventually

[soft crown]

Can't load multiple files unless you use the command prompt for instance; most maps default to DOOM II even if they require a Final DOOM IWAD -- admittedly mostly power user stuff

[vale gyro]

Oh yeah, and the fact you can't even override the IWAD

I'm fine with it automatically setting, but also let us override it

[soft crown]

You can but most people aren't gonna know that

[wide sinew]

I just wish that they would remake PSX Doom and add that to featured add-ons so that Switch players can play PSX Doom.

[soft crown]

-iwad launch option works

[vale gyro]

I mean on console

not just PC

[soft crown]

Kaiser, one of the Legacy Of Rust devs, actually wanted to implement that but it never got off the ground sadly

[wide sinew]

Is there any PSX Doom remakes (complete with colored lighting and spooky soundtrack) that work in the Nightdive version?

[soft crown]

Ah that's right; I did ask Edward about it on Doomworld and he says it's not possible with the UI which sucks

[vale gyro]

damn

[wide sinew]

Cuz I need PSX Doom on my PS4

[vale gyro]

idek if ID24 has support for colored lighting

so you'd probably have to ditch the colored lighting thing

[soft crown]

I thought it did?

[vale gyro]

tbf I'm not really all too versed with that format

so I could be wrong

Yeah, can't find anything about it having colored lighting

[soft crown]

I see "sector tinting"

[wide sinew]

If colored lighting is a thing in ID24, then someone needs to make a PSX Doom WAD that's optimized for that port and upload it

[vale gyro]

Oh wait, that's probably it

I missed that

Yeah. The features video has such.

[soft crown]

From the DOOM Wiki

Sector tinting

Sectors can now have colormaps applied directly to them without needing to use Boom's property transfer line specials. It is also possible to do this dynamically thanks to interactive line special types. When defining the COLORMAP, you set the upper texture to the wanted lump name of the COLORMAP when using the static special or when activating the line from the front side; and the lower texture when activating from the back side.

If a lump is not found with the provided name, or if the upper/lower textures are not set, the sector's COLORMAP is cleared and it uses the current default COLORMAP (as set with the property transfer zone you are in).

When a sector's COLORMAP is set this way, it entirely overrides the default COLORMAP (including property transfers, excluding powerups).

[wide sinew]

It still pisses me off how Nintendo won't allow the mod browser to be on Switch

Like, are they worried that inappropriate stuff is gonna be posted on it? But it's an M rated game!

[vale gyro]

I'm kinda curious if MBF25 will have a similar feature tbh

it'd be nice to have tinted sectors

[soft crown]

Oooh there's a 25 in the works?

[vale gyro]

from what I've heard, yeah

[soft crown]

Shit I just remembered I didn't post in today's Megawad Club

[wide sinew]

Also, speaking of playing on Switch, I'm STILL waiting for more Featured Mods to be added. I mainly play on Switch, and I'm hungry for more WADs

I beat Going Down Turbo like over a month ago

[soft crown]

That's one I've been meaning to play

Fun fact, that was made by Cyriak

[wide sinew]

It's a good one

[vale gyro]

I still need to finish it

[soft crown]

As in the guy that made bunny kaijus

[finite crag]

Was id24 totally abandoned?

[wide sinew]

There is one part where the framerate absolutely TANKS on the Nightdive port tho

[vale gyro]

I know the DSDA-Doom team outright doesn't want to implement it

[soft crown]

Have they said why? I don't wanna have to use GZDoom just for id24 stuff

[finite crag]

guess its only use will be for LoR lol

[finite crag]

you can use woof tho

[soft crown]

Woof also doesn't play nice with my launcher unfortunately

[vale gyro]

iirc the format's just annoying to deal with

[soft crown]

Ahh yeah that's fair

[vale gyro]

I still used Nugget Doom for it lmao

[soft crown]

Cuz you need a few different new IWADs to run that stuff right?

[wide sinew]

Still waiting for Nightdive to make Sigil II fallback to the Roland music when set to "REMIX". Seriously, they fixed it to have the correct pitch recently, but they still forgot to make it fallback to it when set to "REMIX" like every other official WAD.

[vale gyro]

I ignored the ID24 features and just outright used MBF21

[soft crown]

Also yeah LOR is MBF21, any id24 stuff was added last minute

[vale gyro]

well, more like ID24 is an extension of MBF21

that's mostly visual features

[soft crown]

Right

[finite crag]

does nugget doom allow for animated skybox?

[vale gyro]

Maybe???

if Woof supports it, Nugget does as well

I'm curious if anyone will make use of Nyan Doom's extended ENDOOM, though

[wide sinew]

Can all you guys bug Bethesda and Nightdive on Twitter about this for me so they're aware of the issue? I've done so myself, but I wanna make sure they get the memo

[vale gyro]

I might

[wide sinew]

Cool thanx

[soft crown]

I dunno if they ever even intend to add the Buckethead and Thorr soundtracks, you have to pay for those so that might be an additional licensing thing

[finite crag]

they wont

[wide sinew]

That's not what I mean

I mean the Roland soundtrack should play when set to "Remix" like all the other official WADs, but instead it falls back to FM Synth

[vale gyro]

probably not

[finite crag]

i love sc55

i love sc55!!!

[vale gyro]

it'd be nice, but at least I'll live comfortably knowing I'm (not) cool for having a CD copy of the Buckethead OST

I wish Sigil 2 got the same treatment tbh

sadly it's just on the USB

[soft crown]

Wait back up, CD copy? They sold CDs of the soundtrack?

[vale gyro]

The physical versions of Sigil 1 had a CD included

Sigil 2, however, lacked a CD copy

and was only the MP3s on the included USB

[soft crown]

Aw man

[wide sinew]

I do too, that's why I need y'all to bug Bethesda and Nightdive on Twitter for me, because I'm sick of having to go into settings and switch the music from "REMIX" to "ORIGINAL" everytime I wanna play Sigil II, when Sigil 1 and others you don't have to do that

[finite crag]

anyone play zenetra.wad?

[vale gyro]

y'can still buy the physical copy of Sigil 1 and 2 btw

[soft crown]

Romero still has the Sigil 1 big box on his store so I might get that just for the CDs and also because I have Sigil II's big box but not 1

[vale gyro]

Just the standard USB versions, though. Not the floppy versions.

You'll still get Sigil 1's CD, though

[wide sinew]

Do any of you have a legal copy of One Humanity? Cuz I do

[soft crown]

I got both soundtracks digitally through Bandcamp and Qobuz so the CD would just be for the collection tbh

[vale gyro]

I do

On floppy!

[wide sinew]

Nice

[soft crown]

(yes I'm one of those dweebs that still buys music; I also have what's basically a modern iPod Touch that I use daily)

[vale gyro]

I still do

I buy on CD when I can

[wide sinew]

Yeah, hope Eukraine is doing ok rn, considering that was a couple years ago that donations to Eukraine happened to get One Humanity and yet unfortunately the war is still going on

I wonder when the full Doom II Romero mod will release... what is he calling it again?

[soft crown]

Hellion

[wide sinew]

Oh, that reminds me: I still need to rip the Sigil II WAD from the Nightdive release since it has a widescreen title screen

I've ripped all the other WADs from it, but because Sigil II just got added officially a few weeks ago, I still haven't gotten around to ripping that one.

I love how there's actually a proper Master Levels WAD now thanks to the Nightdive release

Instead of being a bunch of individual WADs like it always was before

[sharp wyvern]

even tho it put the cabal series out of order

[cloud talon]

I think I get why half of craniums levels he submitted for the master levels were rejected

[woven swallow]

hello

[woven swallow]

what

i can't even share pictures?

fuck you vega

[plain wind]

What color is the first ever skull key you pick up in DOOM?

[soft crown]

Red

Oh skull

I think blue?

[plain wind]

i do know it's gotta be blue or red

[stuck echo]

i tried to play some of Blood but i got my ass kicked

should I turn it to the lowest difficulty

or the second lowest?

[onyx shoal]

Second lowest

Try that

[stuck echo]

ok

omg the zombies actually fall over

this seems way better

[onyx shoal]

Get them to fight each other

[stuck echo]

this game kicks ass

[boreal jackal]

hello everyone.
is there any way to play old tc's (like aliens or sky may be) on newer source ports (prboom+ / dsda etc)?
or i am forced to install it straight to vanilla doom?

i use doom launcher with dsda, aliens seems to work somehow (enemies are definetely new), but maps remain simple maps from doom 2.

[vale gyro]

it's possible, but just tricky as hell to do so iirc

took me about an hour or so just to get Star Wars Doom fully working myself

[boreal jackal]

there's also a dehacked patch in aliens tc, and i cant figure out how to load it into doom launcher

i'd attach some screenshots, but as i understand, this is pic-free topic )

[vale gyro]

You could embed the dehacked into a WAD with Slade

but yeah... it's quite literally trial and error with load orders most of the time, sadly

[boreal jackal]

nice)
and if i use true vanilla doom 2 iwad and install it straight like it says in manual, will it work?
i have steam version and there were definetely some paches into it

couple of years ago i installed old doom 1 wad (1.1) for my research, it kinda worked via dos box, but it definetely had some problems with sound and saves

[vale gyro]

btw, just currently looking into getting it working

[boreal jackal]

i tried to emulate suicide barrel caco on e3m4 and it worked perfectly)

[vale gyro]

I'm somehow not familiar with that

also, I just realized you may be using the wrong IWAD - the TC is for Doom 1 (and Ultimate Doom for the updated version)

[boreal jackal]

nope, there was a doom 2 version also (it replaced map11-map18 i suppose)
but okay, i'll try ultimate version too

[boreal jackal]

in older versions of doom if a monster blows up the barrel and is hurt by AOE, it becomes angry at himself and suicides via melee attack.
it's the same line of code that allows barons of hell to infight

[vale gyro]

Ohhh yeah. Okay, I know what you're talking about now.

Using the updated version, I used this load order using Nyan Doom (DSDA-Doom)

ALITCSF.WAD
ALITCSND.WAD
ATCLEV.WAD
ATCUD19.BEX

I only have the BEX in my load order due to my launcher automatically converting it to -bex instead of -file

[boreal jackal]

i'll try that, thank you so much

[boreal jackal]

Oh, apparently someone from doomworld patched it and uploaded into kex port frontend.
well, that's useful

[azure nimbus]

red in e1m2.

[vale gyro]

that's a keycard, not skull

[azure nimbus]

the second to last hit on the barrel has to be from the desired target. The last hit on the barrel doesn't matter.

I still am not sure how this deals with multiple pellets from the shotgun. I think those count as seperate atttacks

[boreal jackal]

yeah, that's correct

[azure nimbus]

oh yeah...same behavior except the icons in vanilla but still true

[boreal jackal]

how this deals with multiple pellets from the shotgun

shotgunner doesn't have a melee attack, so it doesnt matter anyway 🙂

[azure nimbus]

It would cause them to fire eastward trying to hit themselves. And the player has a shotgun. Say a monster hits the barrel. Then you shoot the barrel as the final hit.. They'll self aggro or aggro on anothe rmonster if it's set up that way. But what if it's from your shotgun and takes 2 pellets

[boreal jackal]

thats interesting

but it's so hard to emulate this situation

[azure nimbus]

Rockets also attack in two stages. The direct then the splash. But the rocket direct will always kill the barrel. The splash would damage the monster before the barrel explodes though

[azure nimbus]

maybe with directly editing the rng tables to always low roll, simply setting up a map to try it a bunch of times,

[boreal jackal]

looks like something that decino would do

[azure nimbus]

My current belief, that I would like to empirically test to confirm: is that the pellets do count as separate attacks. Because when you fire the shotgun, it's not like there's anything that ties each pellet into the same attack to be counted together. As far as the game is concerned, you're firing 7 times within the single frame for 7 independent attacks

[woven swallow]

See what I mean now?

[stuck echo]

yeah, pink on the inside difficulty is about as hard as HMP doom

[tropic zenith]

iirc each gun has a unique attack codepointer that will shoot multiple pellets in a spread that is still considered one attack

[boreal jackal]

is there any manual?
i opened wad file in slade, imported deh file, saved it, but it doesn't seem to work

[deft urchin]

!border

[tropic zenith]

It's been a long time for me but you'd probably get the best results from looking at a mod like ww-xm.wad to see how a dehacked lump is implemented in a wad

Early zdoom weapon mods utilized this a lot

These can be found on doomworld in the /idgames wad database

[boreal jackal]

oh, you need to rename it to dehacked.txt
then it worked

[tropic zenith]

Are you working within a pk3/zip?

Or does it just say what the file extension is now instead of lump type?

I'm sorry, I am really showing my age rn

I should have said it's looking for plain text with dehacked

[boreal jackal]

just standard wad file.
if i import *.deh file, it is not recognized by slide, it just sits there as unknown lump type

[tropic zenith]

Am sorry I couldn't help sooner

[boreal jackal]

i tried to edit sky may be, and renaming deh file seems to work

custom monsters are present at least

[tropic zenith]

Skymaybe fan lessgooooo

[boreal jackal]

its a shitshow, to be honest.
but it's very unique

[tropic zenith]

How do people get the dos installer to work nowadays? I feel lucky I unpacked it years ago with command prompt on xp

[boreal jackal]

in case of sky may be, there's no need to have dos installer, as i found out

that exe file is just a zip file

self-unpacking archive

i got it to work through dsda-doom

[tropic zenith]

That's very interesting that the port did it itself

[boreal jackal]

you still have to import dehacked file

[tropic zenith]

I see why you were asking now

[boreal jackal]

without it, it kinda works but no custom monsters

[tropic zenith]

I'm so used to just dragging and dropping all the files onto zdoom.exe

[boreal jackal]

90% times it works)

[tropic zenith]

I can't remember now, did Tyson runs allow the chainsaw?

[woven swallow]

tyson runs are fist, chainsaw and pistol

[tough steeple]

Beat legacy of rust

That was a nightmare

[azure nimbus]

that makes sense to. we gotta figure how to test it

[tropic zenith]

Dehacked is more or less proof that this is how it works

[tropic zenith]

Imagine working for MachineGames and getting paid to have fun making Doom mods

[tough steeple]

Whoever decided the acid pits on the second last level were a good idea.

I just want to talk

[native anchor]

What would be the right chronological order for all the WADs included in the Nightdive release? This is my idea.
Doom 1
Sigil 1 and 2
Doom 2
Master Levels
Legacy of Rust
Final Doom

Had the idea of an expanded universe for Doom. This would include all the WADs from the Nightdive release, but of course only Doom 1 and 2 would truly be canon.

[onyx shoal]

All of these Doom games explains the lore
Doom 1
Doom 2
Master levels
Evilution
Plutonia experiment
No rest for the living
Sigil 1
Sigil2
Legacy of rust
Dark ages
Doom 2016
Doom eternal
Ancient gods part 1
Ancient gods part 2

[tropic zenith]

I was like "where is 64" then I saw you specified the nightdive port of Doom 1+II

[native anchor]

But to put them all chronologically, we'd go with this:
Doom 1
Sigil 1 and 2
Doom 2
Master Levels
Legacy of Rust
Final Doom
Doom 64
Dark Ages
2016
Eternal
Ancient Gods

[twin mortar]

I don't think the MLs are canon in any way

[onyx shoal]

Ok your's is better

[native anchor]

But that's included in Nightdive so it counts. And again, it's supposed to be an expanded universe like what Star Wars did.

[twin mortar]

I know it's included in Nightdive, that doesn't change how I feel about it

[sharp wyvern]

I’d personally place LoR after Final Doom

[sharp wyvern]

🥲 veavitdpoh.. isn’t.. canon..?!

[native anchor]

I only put it before Final Doom because it's called Final Doom. Meaning it would be the final game before Doom 64.

[twin mortar]

TEETH not canon :(

[sharp wyvern]

Personally I put the master levels as canon even though they likely aren’t (well at least the ones with story bits lol :P)

Soo Titan levels around the time of Final Doom (cause UAC is going through the solar system anyway around that time), Cabal levels after Doom II or Final Doom, Inferno series whenever

[twin mortar]

D+D2 gave them ending text, do with that what you will

[boreal jackal]

now beat sunlust on ultraviolence with pistol start

[tough steeple]

I like my controllers intact

[twin mortar]

Even if you don't rage, your sweaty palms will grease the controller up

[sharp wyvern]

They already had level descriptions

[twin mortar]

I mean as a campaign

[sharp wyvern]

ya but the text screen is an out of universe one

[twin mortar]

Idk I didn't really pay attention

On TNT rn

Why do people even call it TNT Evilution

[sharp wyvern]

the title screen says EVILUTION? 😭

[twin mortar]

My confusion lies in the TNT part not Evilution!!!!

[tropic zenith]

It's by Team TNT

[twin mortar]

Well yeah, but... why call it that

You don't see people saying Casali Plutonia

Nerve NRFTL

[vale gyro]

I'm calling it that from now on

[twin mortar]

Sounds like some weird last name

[tropic zenith]

They were weird 💀

It's sort of like a "presents" thing

There were lots of authors who signed their filenames with abbreviations of their usernames

[native anchor]

That's why I came up with the expanded universe idea.

And a newcomer wouldn't be likely to touch any of the other WADs for their first time experiencing. They can just play Doom 1 and 2, and then jump to Doom 64.

[sharp wyvern]

idk thats just the name it has

[twin mortar]

It isn't!!!! It's called Evilution everywhere pre-Unity

[sharp wyvern]

Untrue it was called TNT: Evilution on the Final Doom website by TeamTNT 🤓

but i agree that just evilution is the true name