light-no-fire

[sudden steeple]

Please make it harder. NMS is a piece of cake

[void palm]

We will most likely have some kind of replacement

[solemn granite]

You can make NMS harder, just turn the dials up to 11.
I've done that but I prefer it mellow.

[misty egret]

Same. Environment difficulty is hard as I can put it.

Enemy strength and damage levels are both at challenging.

[desert goblet]

It isn't made to be a hard game lol. Definitely fun to turn up to 11 though

Just don't think that should be a default setting going forward

[hollow girder]

Light no fire = Dark Souls

I'd play it

[opaque citrus]

Open world dark souls? Its called elden ring

[sand wasp]

So far all their games have been very casual, I'd expect that to continue

[storm gate]

I believe there’s a Sony State of Play sometime today

[icy sluice]

11pm for CEST

[silk crown]

Does the bacon on the update which was also posted for lnf, does that mean that the beacons update will also be on lnf?

[lofty fog]

Yeah, I thought the fact the bacon emoji was posted on the LNF X account as well as the No Mans Sky one , we would get more of a LNF update.

[tawdry jay]

Guys I lit my fire how do I put it out now

[vivid hearth]

I would've started to believe if the bacon emojis were retweeted several times on the LNF account but, unfortunately, it was only once

Honestly it was probably just Sean doing marketing

[tropic hatch]

What if he accidentally posted it on LNF cuz he was logged into the wrong one and was like "eh I'll leave it". Sometimes simple explanations are ok too lol

[frank belfry]

Not everyone likes to die over and over again please don’t wish that on us casual gamers 🙏

[visual folio]

any new news since the trailer last year?

[burnt ridge]

Hey! Happy SGF Day! Here's hoping for Light No Fire news 🙂

[icy sluice]

I just see this like Marvel movie channels retweeting each other movie posts

wouldn't overthink too much into it

[sand wasp]

I think they were adding like 5 social accounts in one day and got excited

[waxen quartz]

Do game updates make it to Summer Game Fest?

Either way I'm excited!

[fringe pawn]

There has been I think NMS one in the past in during the summer

that being said I always felt it was a Game Awards thing he did the most.

[mighty raven]

oh well i was hopping to see some LNF trailer or so today...

[ionic thistle]

darn

[waxen quartz]

Dang we still got tommorrow.

[proud osprey]

We have a few hours

[static locust]

Why is big blue outline? I'm new to server

[lofty fog]

Big blue outline?

[static locust]

Oh my name had like a box around it and was blue

[lofty fog]

Sorry, I don't know about that. I just wondered what you meant.

[foggy geyser]

what if

what if NMS is just Light No Fire, but on scale

like

to take the statement quite literally

A blast, from the past

[sand wasp]

I won't be shocked if it's same universe, I'd prefer it to be its own game

Some Easter eggs would be fine

[void palm]

My guess is that (nms lore spoilers) ||This is a simulation from before the atlas got old and just started repeating the exact same simulations, like, maybe one of the first simulations it did||

[sand wasp]

Truly hope not, but again won't be surprised and that won't stop me from enjoying it

[sudden steeple]

NMS is a magic dream created by a LNF wizard.

[tawdry jay]

Guys nobody answered my question my fire has been going for days now I can’t put out my fire

[verbal elbow]

I can't believe there was nothing shown about Light No Fire in the last three days of Summer Games Fest.

Has their been any word on a showcase or reveal coming soon?

[sudden steeple]

I still expect the game to release on 08/09/2026.

[south briar]

can someone summarize what the game is

[void palm]

Fantasy, one earth size planet, that’s about all we know

[south briar]

ah

thank you

[opaque citrus]

No mans sky but dipped in fantasy sauce instead of sci-fi . And on one planet instead of bilions.

[south briar]

but said planet is much more detailed and diverse than what we see in the base game

[errant ocean]

is there any tentitive plans for this games release?

[sand wasp]

Nothing said

[sly kite]

I’m too hype

But I hope combat isn’t arcade/flat

[opaque citrus]

HG never made hardcore /high skill games. So dont expect hardcore rpg

[errant ocean]

if its mmo i think there would be some combat element

plus a earth size map damm thats way too good to be true man

if they actually achieve that it might become one of the most played games

[thick pulsar]

So was 38(?) free updates, my expectations are the game will launch, and I'll be happy

then I'll log in, and be astonished

[green harness]

If I understood correctly, it's actually supposed to be multiple times the size of earth

[void palm]

No, they said it’s one planet the size of the earth

[cobalt tusk]

whats the word on the street

yeah it would be cool if this game had better combat mechanics but no mans sky is so good at giving the character motivation and gameplay incentive without an emphasis on fighting that i dont worry about it

the player i mean

[patent furnace]

!LnfLink

[split meteor]

https://discord.gg/lightnofire

[short beacon]

i wonder how big the planet will be

[balmy elk]

The size of earth

[long crypt]

Quite literally what Rogue said. With their new tech, their focusing on making one huge realistically sized planet instead of an infinite universe.

I'm so hype for this game.

[tropic patrol]

What is up my firelighters

[stark cedar]

Wrong chat

Go to #light-yes-fire

That chats fucking fire 🔥

[foggy geyser]

Hell yes Brother we must light the fires!

Light them all ! All the fires

🔥

[sudden steeple]

Here you are.
An attempt to animate the Light No Fire Wallpaper. It could have turned way worse.

[waxen quartz]

My fire is deemed without any news.

😔

[quick basalt]

!LnfLink

[split meteor]

https://discord.gg/lightnofire

[cinder notch]

when will the next trailer drop Sean?

[patent furnace]

[opaque citrus]

[balmy elk]

News will come the month of NMS anniversary

[gilded crypt]

yeah so go to greenmangaming add light no fire to your wishlist it then states release date is dec31st2025
i have atleast 12 games with release dates further out and others not out that say unspecified

take it as you will maybe its a placeholder but all other games say unspecified if they dont have an actual date for them

[patent furnace]

definitely weird they'd do that. given that HG has made no official announcement of any sort. perhaps it's just a glitch, human error, or someone trolling

[gilded crypt]

possible

many factors could play a role

tbh i find it fitting to start the new world with a start on the new year

[granite pecan]

🙏

[crimson mason]

i just noticed this channel,is there a trailer for the game?

[crystal willow]

Yeah. Here is Light No Fire website -> https://www.lightnofire.com/

It has trailer linked

Tho it was released a long while ago

[crimson mason]

thx

the dragon flying looks similar to nms ships,might pick up the game if its on gamepass

[crystal willow]

Light no fire? It has no release date as of now and so far was announced only on Steam (will for sure launch on consoles too, but it wasn't announced on which exactly yet)

Will it be on game pass at launch? Hard to say tbh, NMS is, but NMS is 9 years old now

[crimson mason]

fair,chance is never 0 tho

[balmy elk]

I recon the game will either come out at ends of year or in 2026 early

[balmy elk]

I mite actually get the game when it finally releases am getting more interested to know what it will be like

[quick basalt]

Dark yes water.

[median falcon]

This is kinda cool.

via reddit

[foggy geyser]

Light every fire

[sharp sierra]

Всем привет. Русскоязычные пилоты присутствуют?

[slow fossil]

Извините, я полагаю, что этот сервер является английским.

[sharp sierra]

Я думал он международный.

[slow fossil]

Да, но сообщество сервера преимущественно англоязычное.

В любом случае, это не тот канал, если вы не хотите Light No Fire.

[sharp sierra]

Ну значит меня просто никто не понял. Мало слов выучили )

[little frost]

@sharp sierra @slow fossil Keep this server english only please

[slow fossil]

Sorry, guy here is Russian and I don't think speaks much English

[sharp sierra]

А то что? Разорвет кишечник?

[slow fossil]

Could be mistaken obv

Could be mistaken obv

Do we have an RU community server? Hopefully point him in the right direction

[sharp sierra]

Вы играете в игру о разных планетах и расах. Просто напоминаю.

[little frost]

!Russianskylink

[split meteor]

https://discord.gg/NHryBSM

[unique ruin]

Issue is moderation, can't moderate well if you dont know what people are saying.

[upper wave]

Lights all the fires

[plush osprey]

It's called light no fire, but if you don't light a fire, how can you cook bacon?

[finite bane]

Emmm

Lava?

[west locust]

Throw it in venus

[plush osprey]

These are some great ideas

[unreal obsidian]

Has this project been put on hold?

[crystal willow]

No, there was no news regarding Light no Fire since the trailer

But in different videos/articles around NMS updates they mention that they are working on it

[unreal obsidian]

Iean I love no man sky but if ever possible to keep both games alive would be great

[crystal willow]

Afaik launch of Light no Fire doesn't mean end of support for No Man's Sky

Developers showed no intentions of ending support for NMS so far

So far we are still getting content updates, some of them incorporated technology developed specifically for Light no Fire

Eventually the day will come, but we should be good for some time even after Light No Fire goes live

[unreal obsidian]

Good I'm glad to hear that

[void palm]

Iirc they said they’d been developing LNF for 5 years or so and we haven’t had any decrease in NMS updates

Two separate teams working on the two games it seems

[west locust]

Prediction: lnf releases exactly 10 years after nms

[pastel cedar]

I am still lighting a fire

[sudden steeple]

That's exactly my position.
#light-no-fire message
Based on the fact LNF first trailer was realeased 10 years day to day after NMS first trailer.

[rugged flume]

So, based on the trailer, who is gonna be part of the bunny brigade?

[median falcon]

So, why bacon?

I must have missed something.

[teal pollen]

We neeed dragon training in light no fire i want to take my dragon and open music test drive and just fly in this world

[void palm]

Bacon was for the NMS update Beacons, Sean just retweeted it on the LNF account too

[mellow bronze]

Light no fire: caves and cliffs when?

[nimble sleet]

#no-mans-art message Some LightNoFire fan art ❤️

[patent furnace]

[west locust]

Can't wait to walk the circumference of the lnf planet

(I'm never gonna do it)

[half sigil]

At PGSC we will hopefully be supporting Light No Fire as well with travel request as well

That's our plan at least

[twin karma]

I wonder still if LNF will be somehow connected with NMS.

Like that it's another dimension and Atlas from NMS was created in LNF.

Or if LNF world is just another simulation.

[pastel cedar]

oh I bet you the Atlas is definiently present somehow

also I'm still going to light a fire

[foggy geyser]

Im lighting all the fires

[craggy dragon]

When?

[twin karma]

Day 588 without LNF information.

[balmy elk]

Rip

[lofty fog]

They could keep really quiet about it and then release it suddenly as a nice surprise. 💡 🔥

[balmy elk]

They have to announce it first before releasing it

[lofty fog]

Yeah, hopefully we get an update on lnf in the next NMS update.

[balmy elk]

Yeah i think so maybe like he did also but emoji post on LNF page so that got tobe almost about ready to release it soon and the info is about to drop any time now so it could be on NMS 9th Anniversary

We defo got some good stuff happening next month for sure i can just sense it lol

[lofty fog]

Yeah, hopefully there should be a special update for NMS and a big lnf announcement.

[balmy elk]

For sure watch and see

[foggy geyser]

Light Them ALL 🔥 🔥 🔥

[dense token]

Bonfire lit

[tawdry jay]

I lit my school on fire

[balmy elk]

Id do the same with the bullies in there lmfao

[dense token]

Wait, does lnf have spider enemies? If there is, many fires will be lit

[opaque citrus]

No spoders confirmed.

Only enemy that we saw was the crab one..

From the trailer

[dense token]

Praise be

Wildfire potential has plummeted

[crisp seal]

Am I the only one who thinks that Hello Games gives the most random names to their video games? Like, what does "No Man's Sky" and "Light No Fire" even mean?

[wise verge]

They like the word "NO"

[craggy shore]

Why can't we light a fire?

[finite bane]

No oxygen\

[craggy shore]

So no fancy explosions? 🤔

[finite bane]

Erm

I hope we do

[craggy shore]

But ^

[finite bane]

we gotta make oxygen

We need to smuggle oxygen

[craggy shore]

We need a small shoe with dirt in it and a plant sprout

[obtuse herald]

What is light no fire?

[patent furnace]

[pastel cedar]

I'mma smoke to make a fire

then commit a forest fire to make a fire so I can make even more fire hense lighting a fire!

[finite bane]

Sounds like arson to me

[runic breach]

Why is this chat called Light no fire?

[little frost]

Its a new game currently in development by HG, no release date were revealed

[runic breach]

Oh!

Thank you!

[analog hill]

I assume we still have like zero new info on LNF is supposed to be like

[pine breach]

Yep

[opaque citrus]

Null. Nada.

[boreal orbit]

Is this game already out? Doesn't find in Ps store

It looks really nice, i hope it's gonna be cross platform like NmS!

[lofty fog]

The game is not out yet. We are still waiting for a release date to be announced soon. 😃

[boreal orbit]

Now i'm waiting too! Do you know if it's gonna be cross platform?

It better be

[lofty fog]

I don't think it's 100% confirmed about cross-platform, but I think we are all expecting LNF to have it. I'm hoping there is an announcement about the release date of Light No Fire on the anniversary of NMS on the 9th of August.

[boreal orbit]

NmS is a bit heartbreaking topic for me, because i lost all my game saves when i was switching from Ps4 to Ps5, including NmS

All my technologies, tons and tons of resources, units, nanites, quicksilver

I don't want to even think about it, it's so sad...

[lofty fog]

I'm so sorry to hear that. That's such a shame. Did you switch when cross-save was introduced on NMS? I myself was originally playing on PS4. When I got my PS5 I got my save from PS4 on the PS5 version of NMS eventually through cross-save.

[boreal orbit]

At least i got Platinum unlike other games where it was in process and now will have to start from beginning, like Ds2 and Sekiro

[boreal orbit]

Is cross save when you turn on both consoles and put them next to each other?

[lofty fog]

For data between consoles yes. But for saves between games in depends on whether or not developers have implemented cross save.
https://cloud.nomanssky.com/cross-save

[boreal orbit]

I just saved all data on Usb stick, but it still didn't work. After i found out that there is another, more reliable option, like turning on both consoles and that way transfer saves, it was already too late, by that time i already did factory reset on Ps4

(because i was selling it)

From Usb i transfered saves on Ps5, on Ps5 they appeared, but when i installed Ps4 version of the game, i still had to start everything from beginning

(i don't expect any help about this topic, just saying it's really sad)

[lofty fog]

Stay positive though. 😃 Play lots more NMS and eventually you will earn back all the units you lost.

[boreal orbit]

Im working rn, later i will check it out. You think there is chance i didn't lose NmS saves?

[boreal orbit]

I'm positive, but I'm not gonna play it anymore, even though i would love to😣

Other games like Sekiro, Ds2, i just have to start from beginning

But i don't lose anything, unlike NmS

[sand wasp]

There is literally nothing confirmed about it but the name

[boreal orbit]

Some random guy in space anomaly gave me items worth millions of units. I can play as much as i want, it most likely never will happen again 😅

And he gave me his pets and asked to promise him that i will take care of them

I just now remembered that😭

[sand wasp]

Yeah but Light No Fire :p

[boreal orbit]

That i'm gonna play for sure! Can't wait for it. Hopefully it's gonna be cross platform, maybe we'll play together

[sand wasp]

I'm looking forward to it, I want to fly around on a giant Kingfisher

[boreal orbit]

Would be nice if getting mount will be very hard and long process, so that once you get it, it would feel really satisfying and would significantly change your gameplay

Similar to WoW

(my personal thoughts)

Like it should be a hard and long road to reach places, but once you get a mount it becomes much easier and faster

[sand wasp]

I'm hopeful that we will be able to breed them as well, get our own colors going

[lofty fog]

The huge birds in the LNF game trailer do look so cool, gleam! 😎

[balmy elk]

Any more news leaks for LNF ?

[sand wasp]

More implies there have been any at all

[hollow plinth]

Any release dates?

[patent furnace]

No, sadly but truly

[hollow plinth]

Dang 😔

Thx anyways

[lofty fog]

@hollow plinth @patent furnace I really hope we get a Light No Fire update on the anniversary of No Man's Sky or a very big update for just No Man's Sky. This is just my personal opinion of what might happen.

[hollow plinth]

Thx

[tropic patrol]

🔥

[faint onyx]

i'm excited

[lofty fog]

Yeah, I'm fairly excited too. Apart from the trailer, of course, there is nothing more from Hello Games about Light No Fire. Despite this, I still hope we get something about LNF on the NMS anniversary.

[foggy geyser]

Must light fires

[timber plaza]

Someone gave me around 10bill units

[timber plaza]

blerghs in agreement

[sudden steeple]

Try to stay alive until the LNF release !
Now you just need to wonder how hard of an objective it is depending of the release date

[fluid pivot]

guys i found a light no fire planet with dragons and ruins and all

sadly i found it on ps5

[wise furnace]

Sorry if this is asked a million times per day but do we have a release date ?

[silk crown]

No

[faint onyx]

not at this time

[sudden steeple]

You can expect the 08/09/2026, it seems by far the most probable right now.

[wise furnace]

ty

[opaque citrus]

No problem . Coords have cross platfrom comapatibility.

[icy sluice]

Maybe at gamescom they might show the game

[violet tide]

What is light no fire?

[crystal willow]

Upcoming Game the developers of NMS are working on
https://www.lightnofire.com/

!lnflink

[split meteor]

https://discord.gg/lightnofire

[violet tide]

Oh ok that’s really cool

I hope it’s good on launch

[proper onyx]

watching my calendar every day waiting for Light No Fire

[wise furnace]

When is that?

[icy sluice]

Late August

Around 20 or even later

[plucky monolith]

Don't light a fire please

[crystal briar]

we are getting minecraft 2 before gta 6 /j

[restive valve]

#off-topic-bond-james-bond is probably better for that /gen (no offense,just saying)

[civic sinew]

I've never messaged here but here goes! This has probably been mentioned, but I never noticed that the hand reaching upwards at the end of the trailer is doing so from a lake. This is very remeniscient of the arthurian legend of the lady of the lake who's hand came out wielding excalibur.

[sudden steeple]

The trailer does seem to hint to a chilvalry/medieval setup so it fits perfectly

[pastel cedar]

Still what if I am lighting a fire though

[finite bane]

They gon put it out

[cinder notch]

Sean

This has gone on too long

Please post an update video with an estimated release timeframe ie season

[sudden steeple]

09/2026 (not official, but most probable)

[cinder notch]

Excuse me I was talking to Sean

😉

[pastel cedar]

or else I will light a fire when the game comes out

[median falcon]

This mildly reminded me of something

[unique stratus]

Commando from risk of rain 2??????
/j

[cinder notch]

An ice cream cone

[median falcon]

That may be it.

[glad summit]

do we know the system spec requirement yet?

[forest trench]

the game isn't finished yet :v

[opaque citrus]

We dont have even official platform support (pc and curent gen consoles probably)

[cinder notch]

Checking in on this request

[lilac tartan]

I am curious about the story and how it ties to no mans sky

There were some simmilar things already in the trailer, even the logo is simmilar.

The quiet is concerning tho

[craggy shore]

Light no, fire yes

[strong sable]

I’m gonna light a fire

[fossil lance]

Do not the fire

[strong sable]

:<

[craggy shore]

Friendly reminder that Ryan started the fire

[strong sable]

For a second I thought we started it, I’m glad we didn’t start the fire

[void palm]

We didn’t start the fire
It was always burning

[pallid tusk]

One thing I'm really liking is the variety of shown playable races; definitely going rabbit or otter...for the rodent king

[strong sable]

I’m glad you got the joke lol

[sudden steeple]

When we will finally get news, we will be on fire anyway !

[craggy shore]

Ryan Started the fire

[bronze sedge]

this definetly looks sean....i mean look at face shape looks simialr ... looking at this.. iam assuming a deeper character customization than nms (also a possibility it could a temp mod)

[opaque citrus]

Not enough facial hair for sean

[sudden steeple]

LNF is still nowhere to be Sean 😉

[foggy geyser]

Light EVERY Fire

[pallid tusk]

Relight my fire 🔥

Really hope this isn't a Silk Song situation though 💀

[tame frigate]

They learned their lesson from the NMS launch. Bet we're not seeing much else until it's 90% finished.

[opaque citrus]

Or 98%

[gritty cliff]

dont want people losing their homes again you know.

[pallid tusk]

To be fair thinking rationally as someone who does QA I'd rather they waited until next year to give time for validation, regression and acceptance testing on target platforms; as a gamer though I want it to shadow drop today 🤣

Hard to find balance between those two extremes

[frigid rune]

Who doesn't love a good completed shadow drop game, 20 minutes after they announce it after a game conference/award show?

[opaque citrus]

I fear that at LNF release everybody will start "racing" to discover things . Players , content creators, streamers etc. So after a month most things will be already known. Highest peak. Deepest ocean . Best spots for farming etc.etc.

So until i get and finish the game i will probably avoid the lnf server and this channel

[mellow bronze]

Same actually, I want to experience a game for the first time for once

[vivid hearth]

its possible

But think of it this way

that'll likely only be "deepest/highest/x recorded" at the time

key word recorded

If what Sean said is true, the game's map will be absolutely gargantuan

There's no way there'll be enough players to find every location on earth in just a month

[pallid tusk]

1 year might be a better prediction as if it is the same relative scale as earth it would take 106 days to walk the diameter alone.

I guess with flying 6 months maybe

[pallid tusk]

But I get where you're coming from; I think I'll avoid spoilers too

[foggy geyser]

Sadly is the case with every game nowadays

From like whatever rpg in the 80-90s to whatever the heck released today

[foggy tulip]

no news.. GamesCon2025 :(... maybe in Dec...

[heavy comet]

Please someone tell me. (Not sure if mentioned.) But LNF is not an Mmo? It can be played solo? Or similar to NMS

[crystal willow]

Nothing about it being an MMO was mentioned in the info we got so far (which to be fair wasn't much)

Multiplayer component seems to be more integrated into the game then it was in NMS but the description we were given mention being able to explore on your own

Carve a life together. Meet players from across the globe, build a life, explore and survive together. Construct persistent buildings and communities, or strike out alone to discover the world for others.
https://www.lightnofire.com/

[void palm]

There are still more days left of gamescom

[twin karma]

Yes

But I don't think we will see LNF.

I just hope it was destined to create civilizations or city-states there.

It would be nice to create some navy and reach to islands.

[foggy tulip]

yea i have lil hope of seeing it lol.. but i am looking forward to when we d get news about it.. even something little would be nice

[analog hill]

hasn't it been stated somewhere that NMS is being used as a test bed for LNF features? I swear at least something of the sort was said at one point

might potentially be the other way around

[opaque citrus]

Nms and lnf are made on same engine

[pine breach]

In one of the deep dive videos for the worlds updates Sean said it feels like they are bringing technology back from the future (from LNF into NMS)

Pretty sure there have been other times, too

[analog hill]

I know they are, hence why I said it

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you want ideas of what LNF is gonna be like, you should probably keep a close eye on NMS' updates

[frigid rune]

One of the interviews, Sean did state that majority of the new tech, features, etc being implemented into NMS is also being done and modified for LNF.

[cinder notch]

@Sean

[thick pulsar]

We got any updates on the situation?

[dense token]

Never

[sudden steeple]

Some years ago

[lost horizon]

Assuming they're still working on it and release it maybe once NMS starts to lose players? No idea...

[lofty fog]

I really hope we get a big NMS update soon and a LNF announcement.

[lost horizon]

Ya...this game looks pretty amazing but not sure if it's going to ever come out at this rate

[lofty fog]

I would stay hopeful of it's release 😃 . It could come out at the start of 2026, though who knows.

[lost horizon]

Maybe we'll get it this Christmas

[lofty fog]

Now that would be a miracle

[mellow bronze]

One could even say a Christmas miracle

[pastel coral]

After how nms launch turned out, they should take all the time they need honestly

[sand wasp]

They mention with every NMS update that they are hard at work on it.

[sudden steeple]

One of the things we can be almost sure of is that LNF will be released at some point in the future.

[sudden steeple]

There is a solid hypothesis about LNF final release to be the 08/09/2026

[finite bane]

Light some fire

[urban maple]

im actually so hyped for light no fire

im going to get it when i get a pc

[lyric hound]

are there any light no fire updates

[lyric hound]

that isn't a definite fact (it may never come out)

[sudden steeple]

We know Hello Games still works on it, intends to release it and does not lack money so as long as there is no global catastrophe, it is pretty much guaranteed.

[pastel coral]

I do wonder how much they'll lean into the multiplayer aspect

It was pretty big part of the announcment

[void palm]

We also know they do not want to receive death threats again

[lyric hound]

Yeah its pretty likely

[mellow bronze]

I 100% guarantee that there will be no new news tmrw

[sudden steeple]

Is it a tentative to bring them to give news just to prove you wrong ?

[hardy fulcrum]

dis game soon

[round quail]

dis game never, probably

[cinder notch]

Probably

[radiant badger]

I'd not predict LNF this year

2026 would be a good bet

[radiant badger]

Lets hope its better than NMS MP

[lost horizon]

Someone knows something...

[sudden steeple]

08/09/2026 if it follows the NMS release pattern

[cinder notch]

Ain’t nobody got time for that

[pallid tusk]

Too soon, think it'll be october very earliest, but I'm doubtful

[lyric hound]

yeah hopefully...
doing anything with anyone else really sucks in nms doesn't it
i don't think it's multiplayer's fault, just the fact that there isn't really anything collaborative to do

[sudden steeple]

Here is the logic which brought this date for LNF:

NMS trailer release date: 12/08/2013
LNF trailer release date: 12/08/2023

NMS official release: 08/09/2016
LNF potential official release: 08/09/2026

[mellow bronze]

Let's have a moment of silence for no new LNF news

[pastel coral]

We got news, there will be (probably) customizable ships in lnf

[radiant badger]

Well well well

Sean confirmed there are going to be boats in LNF

[unreal summit]

the pc gamer article said the corvette-building code will be reused to build LNF boats, which sounds pretty fun

[pastel coral]

I really love this thing they do with bringing stuff from lnf back, it's like watching them develop the game in real time.

[opaque citrus]

And doing beta testers work at the same time

[patent moth]

when are play tests going to stard?

[crystal willow]

Who told you there are going to be any public playtests for LNF?

[short turret]

Is there a Discord for LNF? I assume there isn't just one channel here. (Pardon my typing. I bought new climbing gloves for a Gravitec climbing school and I'm breaking them in by wearing them 24/7. It sounds ridiculous, but it works really well to get used to them .)

[void palm]

!lnflink

[split meteor]

https://discord.gg/lightnofire

[short turret]

Thnk you, Gunter.

[feral linden]

Earth size oceans you need full crew with ships to cross .... damn !

[foggy geyser]

Boats? In LNF??

🚤

[rough skiff]

Why lnf sounds like it has more ridiculous gameplay than nms?

[thick stone]

I'm looking forward to LNF more and more each time I see even a hint of something new. Building some kind of custom oceangoing ship would be incredible

[idle karma]

PVP piracy o.o might be a thing, not open PVP but flaggable would be fun.

[thick pulsar]

ooh since there are kingdoms you serve from the looks of it, maybe colosseum-style ship mock battles?

The Romans literally filled the colosseum with water to imitate it

[past swift]

Now that sounds hella awesome

[patent moth]

I dont think ther will be pvp, if they do it like nms wher u can just turn on creative

[latent depot]

Does anybody know what to do when you load in and it say sys_fatal_err_title

[split meteor]

@latent depot

Gameplay questions?

Try #nms-questions

[rigid lava]

Sean's method to his madness. Something that sounds silly is harder to forget than something that sounds serious. Sean realized that with No Man's Sky. So, he's taking that logic which worked well for NMS. And is applying it with LNF.

[ivory beacon]

I Hope they release the game with VR support!

[pale ore]

it'd be hella cool if NMS and LNF had some lore relation

like if LNF was an attempt at recreating atlas on a smaller scale or smth

honestly any story connection would be super cool

[rough skiff]

Creating games that are a beautiful, empty shell doesn't make you a video game genius. You can be a technical genius applauded for creating the game with the longest lifespan. But to design gameplay and a well-rounded game, I don't think a lifetime of trying will be enough.

[opaque citrus]

My bet is that hg will try to release lnf on as many platforms as they can. So VR imo is safe bet. But probably some time after release tho.

[wide compass]

Is there an official discord for light no fire?

[crystal willow]

Not official but it is run by the same Admins as this one

!LNFlink

[split meteor]

https://discord.gg/lightnofire

[crystal willow]

There is no officially recognised Light no Fire server afaik

[rigid lava]

Or it could be a prequel. Like you go through the game story and once you get to end game you find out that Atlas has been watching your characters growth and development in LNF. So, as a reward or curse for your works in LNF your character is one of them that you find yourself as in NMS. Because Atlas ascended you from the LNF world into the NMS world and put a whole new set of skills into you to survive the harshness of space and the universe at large, and to prove yourself once more to the Atlas as you have in LNF.

But yeah, thats my overall theory of the whole thing about the mysterious origins of our characters.

[idle stump]

😭 NMS will still be supported when LNF comes out, right?

[maiden pecan]

likely less frequent updates

[idle stump]

😭

I ain't paying another 80 bucks

[tacit hearth]

That's a whole lotta stuff I'm doing huh xD

[sonic osprey]

is there a planet with only black white in it?

oops wrong channel

[pale ore]

I find it interesting how a lot of the iconography in LNF is similar to the NMS

[gloomy plover]

Any updates on the game? Last time I saw anything about it was the trailer that released last year 😆

[chilly solar]

they mentioned it in the trailer for the NMS Voyagers update

basically just said that they were using some of the technology from recent NMS updates to make LNF better

[lilac junco]

They also added that in LNF there will be real oceans that require players to have large boats with crews to cross

[sudden steeple]

There will be corvette-like ships to travel the ocean in LNF, with multi-crew on-board and customisable interior. No guarantee about the customisable exterior parts however.

[sudden steeple]

Is it not just the logo which has a similar shape and the red colour ?

[unborn agate]

I wonder if LnF will have a procedurally generated world or a premade one where all players are scattered

[hardy nacelle]

any news what year LNF comin out?

[hasty kiln]

Afaik that's the plan. As others said, maybe a few less updates or slower update schedule but not abandoned at all.

[hasty kiln]

We have absolutely no idea.

[idle stump]

Is LNF like NMS but less futuristic?

[hasty kiln]

The only info we have is the trailer basically. Watch this, that's all we know:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKQem4Z6ioQ

[idle stump]

Screw light no fire man I'm setting the whole forest ablaze if nms loses support 💀

[hasty kiln]

It wont it wont! (in my opinion)

[sand wasp]

They have already said multiple times they will stop supporting NMS when it isn't fun anymore

So far, they are having fun

[hasty kiln]

There's so much to add to NMS. I don't see them dropping support for at least a few years.

[void palm]

There’s no way it’s premade, it’s earth size, they’re not making that

[thick arrow]

Careful guys if they make us wait to long we are gonna get sillksong syndrome

[hasty kiln]

I hope that they'll sprinkle around some handmade stuff, maybe a gigantic mountain range or something like that.

[hybrid tapir]

i'm from the future

light no fire 10 minute gameplay trailer and release window reveal at the game awards this december, 2 years from initial reveal

sean himself stands on stage and makes a wry remark about the inital release of no mans sky and how they know they won't have to face that again because he's so confident in light no fire

[graceful matrix]

iirc in the trailer i believe there is a giant golem creature thats eye is the same as the symbol that appears on knowledge stones, which could suggest a relation between the two

[urban pelican]

I assume it will be like NMS. Proc gen, but according to a seed that they set, maybe with some dev control for the general world map plan.

[graceful matrix]

since the world for lnf will be much smaller and more cohesive than nms, i wonder if theyll make world-spanning timed events

[idle stump]

Nah bro I'm from the future and LNF will be delayed because it's so far ahead of its time and if it was to be released earlier it wouldn't find its meaningful audience ✝️ 🙏

[round creek]

I feel like light no fire is going to become what boundless never found it's way to be https://store.steampowered.com/app/324510/Boundless/ it was so sad whenever the updates stopped hopefully light no fire can finish it

[sudden steeple]

Based on steam tags, it is both Single player and Coop, so not a mmo

[keen dragon]

i dont care how long this game takes to come out. i will stay loyal & patient till its release.🫡 and ive waited 15 years for KH3 to come out 😆

[vast dew]

do u guys think light no fire could release this year or next

[sudden steeple]

8th September 2026, that's my pick

[chilly ravine]

Why ? Just by chance ?

[oblique olive]

12 dec 2026.
I think that f
Because is my birthday xD

And now...

Ps5 or pc for lnf? I think in buy a ps5 only for this game because i hope a ps5 special edition pack with lnf but idk is good idea xd

[sudden steeple]

Here is the logic which brought this date for LNF:

NMS trailer release date: 12/08/2013
LNF trailer release date: 12/08/2023

NMS official release: 08/09/2016
LNF potential official release: 08/09/2026

[sudden steeple]

Due to the potential release date in late 2026 other devices could be interesting to consider, like the Steam Fremont.

[chilly ravine]

oh okay !

[sudden steeple]

What do you think ? It could be right. It is not my own hypothesis btw.

[thick arrow]

I mean it could be the 10 year anniversary of nms

[chilly ravine]

yes it's good hypothesis

[oblique olive]

Fremont is the "deck 2" ?

[sudden steeple]

No, Fremont is the future Valve Home Console and it is not yet officially announced. It would be a direct concurrent to PlayStation and it would obviously work with SteamOS.

The deck 2 is more expected around late 2026, early 2027 and would have way less power compared to Fremont as a handheld console is restricted by its power consumption in a way home consoles are not.

[fringe moss]

Is it true they want to make the world 1x1 the size of earth, or is that just a rumor?

[ancient cairn]

u mean make an earth copy?

cus the planets are already to scale no

[fringe moss]

Yeah, I just meant like in size-

[void palm]

Planets in No Mans Sky are not even 1% the size of earth

[void palm]

Yes, they’ve said that the world in light no fire will be earth size

[fossil anvil]

will light no fire be like a survival game or will it just have survival elements like in nms? or has there not been much info around that

[ancient cairn]

damn didn't realise, space kinda distorts the scale of things

[void palm]

Pretty much the only info we have is from the trailer that released December 2023

[thick arrow]

Yeah that and the brief mention in the new nms update

[void palm]

Yeah, we know they’re basically using NMS as a testing ground for light no fire at the moment

Wp1 and 2 were testing terrain gen etc, corvettes is testing boat building

Etc

[cinder notch]

What will they test next

They already having animal riding
Cooking
Combat
Land vehicles

Costumes
Mining
Taming

Starting to sound like an Ark clone lol

[sudden steeple]

Please improved combat, both on ground and in space

Especially melee combat. It will be an important part of the experience in a fantasy setup compared with NMS so they need to work on it.

[thick arrow]

Well I’d say thats a given since we aren’t going to have laser beams anymore

Probably sword fighting, achery, maybe if we are lucky they will even let us fight with the dragons

[void palm]

In space?
On the fantasy planet that’s only on one planet?

[sudden steeple]

The LNF flying dragons movements could inspire a rework of the way spaceship fights work in NMS.

[exotic locust]

I just hope LNF will have VR support

[chrome sedge]

im wondering about the fast travel and party system lol

[void palm]

We don’t know, there’s been a single trailer, that’s pretty much all we know

[late moon]

I hope we get trailer number 2 this year lol

[flat night]

I hope that the multiplayer is not like no man sky but greatly improved. Cause there are still mutiplayer bugs from 4-6 years ago.

[fickle meadow]

I wonder if the lore is gonna be like anything akin to the stuff in Elden ring?

[late moon]

Lore is likely to be more akin to NMS, especially if the new icon for the game is supposed to be similar to the Atlas. Wouldn't be surprised if they did a Light No Fire ARG at some point tbh

[lone scaffold]

what if they made the light no fire world a center galaxy planet

[foggy geyser]

Light Yes Fire

Dark No Water?

[sudden steeple]

It is the same graphic engine and they have the know-how so it is very probable

[fallen rock]

i’m really hyped for this game. Fantasy? in nms style? awesome

[balmy elk]

We need this game now

[little frost]

Thought I'll share something here. Received report that there have been a phishing scam propagating as LNF Beta Invitation going around Steam DB, if you happen to receive a DM like this, DO NOT CLICK.
Reddit article for info: https://www.reddit.com/r/LightNoFireHelloGames/comments/1nd10w7/phishing_scam_alert_propagating_thru_steam_dm_for/

[sudden steeple]

A Koala Lumpur phishing scam. Don't click.

[idle stump]

get this pinned oml

why would someone do this?

[little frost]

Already pinned

[fluid nest]

Scum’s all over man

[calm lake]

any idea when the game is coming out or a beta?

[late moon]

You know as much as we do in that regard.

[humble hollow]

I hope we get another proper trailer before the end of the year. I like the tidbit of info from the Voyagers trailer but I need MORE

[late moon]

Same

[void palm]

Nope

[sudden steeple]

Only this hypothesis for the final release date of LNF:

NMS trailer release date: 12/08/2013
LNF trailer release date: 12/08/2023

NMS official release: 08/09/2016
LNF potential official release: 08/09/2026

[sand wasp]

I liked the guess initially, but the more I think about it the less I think they will have the same release day

[thick arrow]

I doubt there will be a beta version because they are already kinda using nms for that

[sudden steeple]

I am only partisan of this because they already have the same trailer release day and because of the lack of any other information ...

[crystal willow]

Tbh, having both anniversaries (nms + LNF launch/future anniversary) on the same day doesn't sound like that great of an idea.

If they wanted to tease something specifically for one game, it could introduce unnecessary confusion.

Having to prepare something for both games is also a bit more work than just leaving it focused on one game only.

[cinder notch]

This makes too much sense

Begone

Leave us to our conspiracy theories

[lilac tartan]

that would mean that the most effective day is gonna be on the opposite side of the calendar

[dusk hatch]

I wonder how Light No Fire will change the formula for the way HG expresses its game design. I hope that they borrow some of the features of other games that push a community narrative. Example: I like Sky: Children of Light, but only specific features of it, like the lack of communication options that force players to create a communication based culture

Communicating via emotes and grunting was cute

It adds its own way of sort of roleplaying

I didn't like how throw-away relationships were in Sky, though and that's how it felt with the way in which the game pushed players along a linear path

[crude agate]

i hope LNF doesn't inherit NMS's tech debt especially regarding multiplayer stuff (at least with NMS I can mostly just not care about multiplayer related stuff, not sure if that will apply to LNF too)
like my experience with expeditions with multiplayer on is lots of things behaving janky and broken, even including stuff like NPCs and sentinels etc.
I don't think I'm going to pre-order I'd want to see LNF come out and see that everything works well first

also in my experience most nvidia features are broken in NMS - DLAA or DLSS super resolution work okay for me but reflex and frame gen are broken and my frame rate just comes crashing down and GPU underutilized especially with frame gen
i hope that's all sorted out for LNF

[round saffron]

“The truth of the universe is fire. The soul is light.”

• quote from The Atlas Path

[thick arrow]

Ummmmmm

Ok yeah im definitely thinking metaverse

||I have barely started the game but I’m pretty sure I saw spoilers that atlas is like an ai simulating a universe right? So like other ai connected would be sick||

[molten lynx]

Only learned about this in, like, the last hour.
Interesting concept.
I'd make a joke about NMS's launch, but, perhaps that'd be in poor taste.

Anyway, stopping by the channel to wish the devs the best of luck, in the words of Chancellor Palpatine...
"We will watch your career with great interest."

[void palm]

That’s considered spoilers for nms and should be marked as such

[thick arrow]

iOS

*oops

Sorry

I’ll do that

[nocturne phoenix]

yep frame gen has been broken lately it seems , it used to work fine for me
it is somehow capping base frame rate at 30-40 when enabling frame gen , without vsync on and in menus or if there is a popup text its working fine weirdly enough

[random isle]

Whats light no fire

[pastel coral]

no man's sky but its fantasy and situated on single planet

[crystal willow]

https://lightnofire.com/

[pastel coral]

Might be more focused on the survival and rpg aspects

[random isle]

Oh

Is there nipnip?

[pastel coral]

You're asking the important questions, but so far we only have the announcment trailer and I don't think its in it.

[crystal willow]

That website + steam page is pretty much everything we know about Light no Fire

If there is no NipNip mention there then nobody knows

[plush roost]

Is light no fire any good / better than nms? just asking out of curiosity

[silk crown]

We don’t know. It’s not out yet

[plush roost]

Really? do you think its going to be good?

[silk crown]

Hopefully it is.

[plush roost]

I like the concept, i hope it gets executed well

[silk crown]

I mean in the first year or two that it’s released, you know there’s going to be bugs. A lot. So i think like nms, it will get better over time

[silk crown]

Same

[bright python]

Any rumor of or a place to sign up for early access testing?

[safe brook]

if there was something like that, this channel would be a lot more active lol

[civic cloak]

So what is Light No Fire? Like what's the game gonna be themed around?

[crystal willow]

Fantasy procedurally generated world the size of Earth, Hello Games described it as game aiming to bring depth of RPG to freedom of survival sandbox

[civic cloak]

I'm in love

[thick arrow]

If you see something like that don’t sign up. Pretty sure someone was going around scamming people with a beta test of light no fire

[crystal willow]

Yeah, we have a pinned message here with a warning

I'll repin it

[civic cloak]

She light on my fire until I no

[cinder notch]

which drops first: blackfrost or light no fire?

[unkempt heath]

I hope there's a macOS (Steam) or PS5 version… (and not just stuck in PC land.)

[safe brook]

i'm sure there will be. nms is out on pretty much everything and they share an engine, so it shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility even if it happens a bit later than pc

[sudden steeple]

Probably just not the switch 1 as it is seriously lacking power wise and it will become even worse in the future.

[fiery token]

ya know, thinking about it, LNF will be way smaller than NMS

because a single nms planet is pretty small

but 2 quintillion is a lot

[late moon]

Smaller in size, bigger in scope.

[sudden steeple]

25 to 40 hours are needed to travel the entire circumference of a typical NMS planet. It shows how small they are.

The real challenge with LNF is the diversity (biomes, POI, resources, monsters, NPC) and the way these elements harmonize together.

Unfortunately a realistic way to arrange biomes would not make it an enjoyable arrangement for a game design perspective so choices must be done.

[chilly solar]

I hope Light No Fire has some kind of player driven faction system. NMS has the different player organizations but they don't really affect anything unless you know about them so with the single planet scale of LNF I hope to see something like that holding more weight even if it isn't really mechanically implemented

[stiff apex]

race-based factions 🗿

frog empire

[void palm]

A single earth size planet that will be highly detailed vs many planets that aren’t 1% size of earth and not very detailed

[remote talon]

Player-based world building would be cool to see

Not just pre defined factions and clans

[sudden steeple]

There will be predefined factions based on the trailer. The bowing rabbits definitely seem NPC's to me.

[unkempt heath]

Thank you. I do hope that’s the case.

[vestal owl]

Any idea when the game is coming out? 2026?

[dusk hatch]

Will there be a no-burn bylaw in effect all over the planet in Light No Fires?

I clearly see fires lit in the trailer.

Is light no fire an ode to Prometheus?

The titan that stole fire for mankind

I wonder if their heads will explode after LnF is released

[thick arrow]

I mean it doesn’t have to be that deep

No man’s sky kinda makes sense but it’s not a super clear title

Light no fire could just be like “go where no one has ever lit a fire”

Tho to be fair I doubt it’s that

Just also doubt it’s some deep allegory

[vestal owl]

Honestly i think its in refrence to Promethius and him giving humans fire. Its thought that he gave humans sight/the ability to see or some variation of that. Idk thats my opinion

[thick arrow]

It is making more and more sense as I hear it

I didn’t like the idea at first but like the hand holding “fire” like Prometheus holding fire to give it to humans makes sense

[vestal owl]

I doubt thats the actual lore because there are several different races but i wouldnt be surprised if it was something like that

[sudden steeple]

Right now it is more an expectation

[thick arrow]

I think that needs to be labeled spoilers

[spice egret]

i can see the pattern

[sudden olive]

interesting

if it ends up like another HG banger

will buy it

[cold marten]

Is there a seperate dis server for LNF? Or is that just gonna happen when it releases

[crystal willow]

Yeah, there is one

!lnflink @cold marten

[split meteor]

@cold marten https://discord.gg/lightnofire

[crystal willow]

Also in pinned messages

[cold marten]

Ah, my bad 😅

Thank you though!

[fallen cave]

When is this coming out

[shy tangle]

i just lit the fire
is that bad

[dense token]

We’re doomed

[thick arrow]

We have not got the slightest clue

Someone should start a counter to see how long it takes

[void palm]

If you join the LNF served there is a counter

[sudden steeple]

Actually a volunteer counting every day to tell how long it has been since the release trailer

[sand wasp]

The Timekeeper

[thick arrow]

Oh nice

Didn’t realize

Joined the server but I can’t seem to find it

[crystal willow]

"Counter" in this context is Grim posting daily in #1183233144455962694 message

[thick arrow]

Thanks

[sudden steeple]

For example here is the message he posted today:

Welcome to day 293 (659) of year 2, of waiting for new news about LNF. This week, summer has ended and we wait on into Autumn. The wait continues and we will look forward to the future! Have a great weekend everyone! I also hope that LNF has a system where you summon a sub-character that does battle for you! [tee hee]
[Note: These are not predictions when we will get new news and you shouldn't get your hopes up about them]
36 Days till Halloween!
73 Days till two year anniversary!
77 Days until The Game Awards (TGA) (Dec 11th, 2025)

[thick arrow]

Yep I found it

[hard parcel]

A while back people were thinking to call Grims counting a calendar

That seriously levelled me up?

[brazen vault]

LIGHT NO FIREEEE

EPICC

[rose tide]

they say LNF would be as big as earth, so the map is sphere like NMS planet just bigger? or it just flat like minecraft?

[crystal willow]

We don't know specifics but it says "planet" so we expect a sphere.

Planets in NMS are really tiny compered to actual planets (assuming 1u = 1m)

[worn pivot]

is somthing wrong with light no fire discord chanel

its emty dear

[thick arrow]

Well there isn’t a game yet so it isn’t exactly the biggest thing

[sudden steeple]

Most of the talk about the game is on the unofficial LNF server (look on pin to find it)

[sudden steeple]

Both games will use the same game engine so it is actually easier for them to make a sphere

[cursive ivy]

FIRE

[tropic patrol]

🔥

Just gonna do my part

[clever grove]

I hope that light no fire will contain less bugs. I love NMS, but current Expedition was quite hard because of the many crashes and glitches.

[thick arrow]

Probably still gonna be buggy but they did say they are trying hard to commit to a polished game at release this time

NMS at release was crazy buggy and a huge letdown

[weary condor]

Does anyone know when lnf comes out??

Or only our savior Sean Murray?

[sudden steeple]

There is a credible hypothesis about september 2026, that's all.

[valid sparrow]

Why that date?

[thick arrow]

Best guess of an announcement is game awards un December

[thick arrow]

Lines up with how no man’s sky came out but honestly I don’t think it’s likely

[thick arrow]

Only thing we can do for now is make sure we all vote for no man’s sky and light no fire at the golden joysticks

Voting out now

[sudden steeple]

NMS trailer release date: 12/08/2013
LNF trailer release date: 12/08/2023

NMS official release: 08/09/2016
LNF potential official release: 08/09/2026

[cinder notch]

Credible conjecture at best

[next cedar]

From what I understand lnf will be PC exclusive upon release. And come to consoles later. Does anyone know how long that would be? Are we talking several years or months?

[frosty mesa]

when coming 😿

[opaque citrus]

When its ready

[shy tangle]

so tomorrow

im a very trustable source

[weary condor]

You're like the Nintendo leaker who told the world that the switch two would have a screen

[sand wasp]

Not sure where you are getting the info from, but HG hasn't said anything like that

[void palm]

Id love to see a source for that

[hard parcel]

i'd prefer a couple days

[thick arrow]

There has been zero information either confirming or denying this and honestly I don’t expect pc only launch it’s simply to big

[thick arrow]

Hopefully announcement at game awards in December but that’s mostly speculation. Might even get an announcement at golden joysticks or two year anniversary which are both slightly closer

[arctic kayak]

How big is lnf compared to gas giants

[weary condor]

Nobody knows. The trailers said about the same size as earth, and the nms planets are very scaled down. If we take the largest of the no man's sky planets, that barely comes close to the size of earth. So it is safe to assume that lnf is bigger than a gas giant. But again, we won't know till launch

[thick arrow]

So the general consensus online(from a few seperate experiments done by gamers and posted to Reddit and The Gamer) seems to be that every 3 Units in game is equal to 1 meter. A large planet(can’t find any details of what is classified large) has been calculated to have a circumference of 1052 KiloUnits. So the circumference of a large planet is 350.33 kilometers squared. The circumference of the Earth is 40,000 kilometres. Thus the earth 1:1 planet in light no fire will be around 115 times larger than the largest planet in no man’s sky.

This info may be outdated but couldn’t fully understand what this poster was saying even tho it seems the closest and most informed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/1chh3cl/what_is_the_smallest_planet_youre_found_so_far/

Just remember light no fire will be 1:1 to earth

[crystal willow]

I landed on a random gas giant and assuming I did my math right here is a comparison. LNF world is supposed to be as large as planet Earth. Gas giant measurements aren't laser accurate but the same goes for that of the Earth, this is only for demonstration. Earth uses meters and square meters and Gas Giant NMS units and square units

|                  | Circumference | Surface Area        |
| ---------------- | ------------- | ------------------- |
| Gas Giant in NMS | 3 276 000     | 3 416 160 000 000   |
| Planet Earth     | 40 075 000    | 510 000 000 000 000 |

So assuming 1 unit in NMS is equal to 1 meter irl:

• Earth's circumference is around 12 times larger than that of my Gas Giant
• Earth's surface area is around 149 times larger than that of my Gas Giant

I didn't bother with volume since it's rather irrelevant for LNF

Edit: I also noticed how badly the table ended up on mobile so here are the numbers

Circumference | Surface Area

Gas Giant in NMS -> 3 276 000 | 3 416 160 000 000

Planet Earth -> 40 075 000 | 510 000 000 000 000

[crystal willow]

That would make player character absolutely tiny bc even tallest character body type for the anomaly is below 2 units tall in NMS

[thick arrow]

True

Idk I just spent ten minutes or so looking at some studies other than people did

But there did seem to be the largest agreement that 1 meter was 3 units although a few people did use 1:1 method like you

[crystal willow]

Are you sure they weren't referring to imperial foot? Bc then 1u to around 3ft would check out

[weary condor]

Who knows if volume is irrelevant? Maybe there are caves
(Picture me saying this in a sarcastic ish tone)

Not that they would affect the volume much

[crystal willow]

I doubt we will be able to explore deep enough to make volume relevant. Thing most people are worried about in regards to LNF world size is surface bc they heard it'll be one planet and are afraid there might not be enough space for everyone or that game will get fully explored too quick.

[thick arrow]

Actually just took a deeper look at this link which I originally couldn’t make heads or tails of but seems to agree with you. The other posts are quite old and may be either wrong or outdated.

So yeah Bjorn I think you were right about 1:1

[crystal willow]

Well, I assumed that's the case based on some things, like speed of exocrafts which when displayed in kilounits per hour seems to be in similar range as speed of cars (not racing cars ofc and still slower than what you can see people casually drive on German Autobahn, but exocrafts are off road vehicles) and player character hight

[thick arrow]

Yeah and quite frankly it also just seems reasonable to make it one to one as well as the fact that,since it is a British studio, they won’t be using the imperial system

[weary condor]

Think about the size of earth. 8 billion people and still unexplored areas on it. Lnf will not have 8 billion people playing it so there will be enough space for everyone to find and discover

[thick arrow]

Yeah it would probably have a 10,000th of that

[weary condor]

Everyone could have their own country

[thick arrow]

That would be a bit extreme but yeah kingdoms would be awesome

[arctic kayak]

W, Thanks for the calculation

[arctic kayak]

I think there will be a tribe or smth and maybe a world war

[covert python]

War would be so cool in LNF, imagine setting up an entire army of NPCs with archers, chivalry, catapults etc

Basically just like the battle simulator game

And we would get to set borders once we claim a land, and that would be our nation. We could expand it with claiming more unclaimed land or fighting a war with other players or NPC controlled nations

[weary condor]

Wait Sean said that the tech that was used for Corvette building is going to be used in lnf for ocean ships. Imagine naval battles with other NPCs or players and their custom ships!

[covert python]

Yeah it will become Sea of theives but cooler

Imagine dragon wars beacause there will be ridable dragons too

[next cedar]

A friend of mine was saying it. I guess she is wrong.

[empty bloom]

I hope the flying mounts will be like companions as well. I'd love to have dragons follow me in my explorations

[thick arrow]

Probably she assumed it due to the fact that steam is the only store it is on yet

But that’s likely due to the ease of adding unreleased games no-strings attached to steam

[thick arrow]

From the look of the trailer thats unlikely but it would certainly be interesting. My guess is we will be able to get much smaller companions to join us

[empty bloom]

I just dont want them to end up basically being reskinned starships, where they only stay in one place unless ridden or called

[arctic kayak]

Will lnf have better npcs

[thick arrow]

My guess is there will have a limited amount of animation but the trailer does seem to have them sitting and chilling until you go to fly

[lucid knot]

Who up not lighting a fire

[vast valley]

Have anyony of ya'll seen the Light No Fire subreddit? It's absolute PEAK shitposting. I love it so much

[opaque citrus]

Light no fire got nominated for most wanted game in golden joystick awards. Go vote and do your part.

[ insert im doing my part gif here]

[thick arrow]

Already did

Vote for NMS too just for the added chance of forcing Sean to tell us something accidentally when he gets on a stage

[idle karma]

What if there are "Dimensions" as well o.o

[carmine pebble]

What if I light a fire

[dense token]

Yknow what? Screw you. lights your fire

[thick arrow]

🔥

[sudden steeple]

And because devs actually develop the game on their PC so it is way easier for them to test it on them too. Btw PS saves are crypted, so they are mostly useless for fixing bugs.

[thick arrow]

Yep

[dire badge]

Yall think there's gonna be civilization wars like in Minecraft as we will all share one world?

[old frost]

Wait we going to share a world in light no fire?

[dire badge]

Are we?

I thought it was all shared

[thick arrow]

It’s speculation

But unlikely

Just what everyone is hoping for

However very unlikely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmlfAw7EV_U&t=12s

This video explains it further

[weary condor]

I really hope it's a shared world

[thick arrow]

Same but unfortunately it’s a pretty out there dream

However fingers crossed that Hello games noticed and listened

Because they are great at listening

[gritty lantern]

Wait, it's not a shared world?

[sudden steeple]

We don't know. It could be a server-wide shared world, a 32 player shared one, a friend shared one or even a one player hosting world with other players joining.
However, based on the job requests from Hello Games, a true server shared world seems doubtful as no position matching the requirements to create such a system was requested.

[gritty lantern]

... ... ... ... ... I can't shake the feeling that it'll end up half baked if it's -not- a shared world, though on the other hand, so many people on at once would be hell on a server; ish's 1000-player minecraft civilizations are proof of that

[thick arrow]

Yeah but ish used an area the size of like a semi big town

This is the world size

[spice oak]

its a shared world

during the game awards sean quite literally says its one world that we all will be on

the first true "open world"

mountains miles high, taller than everest, that when you reach the top you can see different continents.

[thick arrow]

There is plenty of clues that could mean it but unfortunately not even that is concrete

It could just as easily mean that everyone is on one planet instead of the quintillion of NMS

Don’t count on it

But continue to hope

And vote for Hello Games at the golden joysticks

To increase chances of early light no fire update

[neat plinth]

If they use the same type of systems as NMS

How would you figure (using logical thought process) how star systems would be translated to the world in LNF?

Is it going to just be one straight up world? Or segmented?

What about eh concept of space stations (like you pull and and go through an animation toward it center to land)

Just wondering how other people thought they might do this, or not include this.
Or if anyone has even thought about it lol

[thick arrow]

It’s going to be close to no man’s sky but it’s still gonna be a whole new game

A lot will be different or excluded

[weary condor]

Lnf is gonna be a fantasy game the size of earth. There will be no space elements whatsoever (unless I'm incredibly wrong)

[thick arrow]

Nope thats what they said

Seriously doubt the fantasy game will go to space

[fiery isle]

Is it using a new gaming engine or same as NMS?

[gritty lantern]

It would surprise me if they tried to make a new engine for it, because they already HAVE the nms engine they can build off of

[opaque citrus]

Same engine

[fiery isle]

Thanks.

[thick arrow]

No one knows anything beyond what’s on the steam page and a few comments in no man’s sky update videos but they are using a lot of things and code from NMS so likely the same engine

[fiery isle]

I’m just hoping that some of the clipping gets fixed. That’s the only thing that pulls me out on occasion.

[thick arrow]

Hopefully

[rose tide]

is lnf map is same with everyone, or each saves is different?

[thick arrow]

It will be the same map

Same idea as no man’s sky

[snow agate]

Please have some magics

[thick arrow]

There almost definitely will be magic we see a few staffs with crystals and even a few glowing or flaming swords

[silver cloud]

LNF when?

[dense token]

When people stop lighting fires

[silver cloud]

LOL nice!

Do the dragons in LNF light no fires? Can't recall that I saw any fire breathing in the trailers(s).

It was "NO man's sky" then "Light NO file". Is the next game something like "Oh Hell NO"?

[thick arrow]

There is a fire sword in the game so my guess is light no fire doesn’t mean anything significant

[sand wasp]

It's a metaphor

[past tinsel]

the fact that the line is from jain philosophy doesn't inspire confidence in hat Lnf is what all think it is

[sand wasp]

Stretching, Jain monastic practice includes injunctions against kindling or extinguishing fires (for monks) as an extreme form of ahimsa - but that specific phrase isn't used

[past tinsel]

See No Candle, a Closed World Kobold simulator

[sour fiber]

would be great if there was a demo or playtest out so we can try it

[thick arrow]

There isn’t

Except a scam

DO NOT believe any “demos” “betas” or “playtests”

[opaque citrus]

Lnf is made on same engine . By playing nms we are basicaly testers of new mechanics that might come to lnf and vice versa

[worldly shuttle]

I was watching a LNF trailer and in this scene I thought for a moment I was looking at a NMS knowledge stone. 😆

[void palm]

There’s a reason we’ve named it knowledge bro

[dense token]

Reminds me of that one diglett post

[worldly shuttle]

What's the diglett post?

[dense token]

The where it’s this big dude under the ground and the digletts are its fingertips

[lofty fog]

When I watched the trailer I noticed that too. A possible connection to the knowledge stones maybe in LNF?

[opaque citrus]

Imo nah .imo Its just a vauge reference for u to crack a smile

Connecting lnf to nms would only limit the creativity

[lofty fog]

You are probably right. 😃

[opaque citrus]

I expect many small references in lnf like familiar item or npc names

[crystal pond]

Where is the best place to look for updates for lnf

[lofty fog]

I know we have only had one trailer but, do you think LNF's graphics will be more realistic or less realistic than NMS?

[opaque citrus]

Nah. It will be les realistic. Its fantasy game . So expect magic , monsters, dragons etc etc.

No mansskyrim if u will

[crystal pond]

I hope they focus on the combat more

[worldly shuttle]

I agree.

[proud osprey]

I think some lore connections would be cool

[dense token]

When you die in lnf you become an anomaly

Or lnf is the escape of the simulation

[thick arrow]

Doubtful

Probably the most connection will be that this is also a sim

[snow canyon]

Guys

How would cavemen survive when Sean said light no fire?

[thick arrow]

Grok always survives

[snow canyon]

That is true

[mellow bronze]

LNF MENTIONED IN RECENT UPDATE

[reef dawn]

Umm yeah the New Graphics will Rock - remember they are trying out Some Stuff in No Man's Sky as they invent/code it in LNF - the Under Water bit in Trailer shows it Best for LNF - (why? Cause it's hard to even see dust & floating lil motes in the Air in the trailer - Water brings it into visibility for us - assuming they are getting ready for a Quantum Leap in the Graphics Engine too).

All those lil bits of dandelion fluff & dust & whirling crud in the Air you only notice while quietly fishin' in NMS - like that But next level dust etc.

LNF is also an acronym for Look New (Sky) Fluff it seems.

[void palm]

It’s been mentioned in every single NMS patch note since it was announced

[crystal willow]

They skipped the mention in the patch notes in the last couple of updates, but they kept the mentions in news posts on their website (it's a different section of the website than patch notes), and this update they brought it back to the patch notes.

What does it mean, Sean!? What is this game you are playing!?

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[void palm]

Oh right

[feral linden]

#gamethatwillnevercomeout

want to play LNF .... but dont want to wait until 2029

[thick arrow]

It’s hopes that the release date will be announced at the game awards

[sand wasp]

Why? That would mean a solid well polished game

[thick arrow]

True

If it takes that long it would probably be insane

Imagine if somehow after ten years of being the most anticipated ans least talked about game it was a huge mess

No amount of updates is gonnna fix that

[rigid bridge]

I am not going to light any fires

[weary condor]

That's the spirit!

[cloud sinew]

Guys

Why is it called light no fire but fire exist

[patent furnace]

Maybe fire causes bad something something something

[thick arrow]

Maybe it’s the opposite

No bad effects but you need fire

“No man’s sky” and yet we go out and make it our sky

[coarse fractal]

Coz we shan't light fires yet

Well we can for now

But like when light no fire comes out we won't be able to light no fire

[thick arrow]

All im saying is when a studio creates a game called “the last campfire” and also has a game announced called “light no fire” I start to get suspicious

What are they doing to all the fire?

[coarse fractal]

Omg Hello Games is plotting to bankrupt the lighters and matches industry!!!

[left needle]

Noooo!

[thorn heron]

The only fire we'll be lighting is a sacrificial fire to reveal the release date

[ember zodiac]

and the heavy flamer industry

YEEAAAA LEVEL UPP WOOOOP

[thick arrow]

Nice job

[sudden steeple]

How do you want your spicy meal ? Light ?
No, Fire !

[boreal orbit]

https://youtube.com/shorts/iqamS2cXbJY?si=wBwFiAQQ7mf6jF6Z

I have wrote ir before and I'm gonna write it again, i really hope that getting a mount or some sort of transportation in this game will be a very hard task to accomplish

[crystal willow]

I doubt it

[boreal orbit]

For example to get a mount: First need to learn zoology, then need to learn hunting, then you need proper gear, after that locate creature, then somehow capture it and at the end make it like you

[crystal willow]

Mounts are left and right in the trailer so it seems like content they were working on for a long while now. Not much point in making them difficult to obtain.

• lack of mobility is very often tedious part in many games

[boreal orbit]

Well trailer is one thing, but yeah you are probably right and i understand why many people would agree with that (that mounts should be easily acquirable)

[crystal willow]

I didn't say they should be particularly easy, but putting them behind some long process while the world is tedious to explore on foot will filter out a lot of players

Not even tedious

[boreal orbit]

But i still think it would've been better if getting yourself way to move around faster in this huge world would require some struggle, so that at the end when you finally got it, it means alot 😃

[crystal willow]

If biomes are large and you need something from a different one then walking there will not be pleasant, not unless the journey can provide some meaningful experience which in a proc gen world is difficult to do

Locking means of transportation behind a long or, even worse, grindy process isn't the smartest move.

[boreal orbit]

Well, as i imagine it, game should still be enjoyable without mount, on foot. Just the mount would make your game significantly faster and easier

I'm not game developer, what do i know, I'm sure they know better than me😊

Just random thought

anyway now i g2g sleep, good night 🌚

[crystal willow]

Idea that getting a mount should be very special is cute and all, but you don't need to put them behind a grindy process to make it memorable.

[opaque citrus]

I bet there will be some kind of teleport/ fast travel mechanic in LNF

[maiden pecan]

It's called a dragon 🙂

[opaque citrus]

I mean faster. Like the nms teleport

[maiden pecan]

Don't think so

Imo unless it's a major hub or smth

[weary condor]

Bro a player hub area would be so cool. Like a giant city that all players can go to like the anomaly

Oh man this game is gonna have like famous people. Someone is gonna be the first to entirely circumnavigate and be like the game's Magellan. The first person to reach the tallest mountain like Edmund Hillary or the first person to reach the lowest point in the ocean like John Walsh and Jacques Picard

There will be documentaries and stuff.
"On may 82nd, 2027, BillB0b21 was the first LNF player to reach the lowest point of the ocean, followed closely by B4ll5Supr3m3 only three days later"

[sick forum]

And I wonder whether we will be sticking these dragon and bird mounts into our pocket like starships and dinosaurs in NMS! Need a mount? Pull it out of your pocket and it lands next to you, easy. 😁

[coarse fractal]

Mmh I think it might be like NMS where your mount will stay in a place (or it'll prob be able to move around) but you can call it to your location

[sick forum]

They disappear when you leave. And "call it to you" is what I humorously referred to as pulling it out of my pocket

[thick arrow]

Unlikely considering we see dragons and birds waiting around jn the trailer

[coarse fractal]

Tho it's the same thing as in NMS pretty much... your ship is just gonna be waiting in a place until you summon it

[thick arrow]

Exactly

[coarse fractal]

Why'd you say unlikely then

[thick arrow]

I misunderstood

I thought they meant like pokeballs not like NMS

[coarse fractal]

Oh

I mean they did say "like starships and dinosaurs in NMS"

Whatever thoe

[molten lynx]

On the topic of mounts and the like, consider the following
Custom-built ye olde airships
Think corvettes, but made of (mostly) wood

Somebody are all for that nomadic lifestyle, so a mobile base of operations might be a nice feature.

[thick arrow]

Goated

But also airships with dragons for the heat system

[left needle]

And then people are gonna get stuck in the antarctic

Or the arctic

[left needle]

Sailing ships would be cool too, to traverse the ocean

[empty bloom]

Sailing ships are planned, corvettes were implemented in nms partially as a testing ground for them

Anyway, a mechanic I thought of is something like a personal mini realm of a player. A portable pocket dimension that can contain a base inside it that you can have access to almost all the time. It would be like the freighter equivalent in lnf

[weary condor]

Ernest Shackleton in LNF 🤣

[left needle]

Yh

Amd then we godda get the Edmund Fitzgerald

[thick arrow]

Don’t forget the donner party

Gonna have in the 2026/2027 Halloween update

Cannibalism now available

[weary condor]

Nah people are literally just gonna Simulate Civilization

[thick arrow]

Exactly

Gonna be peak

This game is going to be famous and I intend to be a day one player

[weary condor]

Heck yeah brother

[safe brook]

same here. i've grown to adore this studio, i plan to get in on the ground floor of this one, lol

[thick arrow]

Yep

[left needle]

Me and 3 of my friends are gonna start a roman empire

[weary condor]

W friends

[left needle]

Fr

We're just gonna have to figure out how to meet uo

Up

[wind olive]

What do you guys think the chances are we hear more about LNF on the Game Awards?

[warm otter]

I hope it’s high

I’m extremely excited for it

[empty bloom]

Can't wait until the 500 Roman empires form and collapse over the first year of the game's release, lol

[left needle]

Yup

[empty bloom]

It would be neat if it succeeded, but if you wanna play the long game, I suggest not starting the roman empire, but the beginning of that civilization

Though it ultimately depends on how much of the game itself incentivizes forming player civilization groups

[left needle]

Yh

Might just start the band of the hawk from berserk

[near sentinel]

I'm going to be honest, I kind of hate the idea of an award for "most wanted game".
Especially when all we know about it came from one teaser video 2 years ago and they seem to refuse to elaborate any more on it. Like what are we actually celebrating here? Why would we vote most wanted when 1) you tell people not to speculate about the game to not get hopes up, while also 2) telling people to get hyped for the game. Like what are we doing here?

[sand wasp]

Celebrating hope, cheer up

[livid orchid]

I’m gonna be real, I am going to beeline it to the nearest place I can become a full-time sailing merchant.

I will work a vessel or fly air cover for trade vessels on a dragon, happily.

I DREAM for a game where I can just be a humble craftsman and merchant, earning my reputation that way.

[fallen rock]

Waiting for this game is torture

[thick arrow]

Real

[weary condor]

Real

[balmy canopy]

im of the growing opinion we'll get it sooner rather than later, if only for the risk of competing with gta 6

[warm otter]

100%

[thick arrow]

Same. Im hoping for late winter/early spring

Because announce at game awards and then anytime from March-April

[balmy canopy]

I would put money on early to mid spring, if they wait till the summer its going to get buried in the GTA hype

[thick arrow]

Exactly

GTA is late may

[short beacon]

Lmfao just like real life!

[balmy canopy]

Im not going to lie, its going to be legitimately an interesting study in seeing how human civilizations form and evolve in real time. People should archive the civilizations that form, fall, and succeed.

NMS I think is almost at that point, just needs a few more tools and I think we'll have a massive boom of new civs, corvette blueprints and selling between players for one, and am update just focused on multiplayer overhauling and robustness I think would do it

[empty bloom]

Ehh, like I said in a different message, it depends on how well the game incentivizes forming such communities. In lots of similar types of games (such as Minecraft and even no mans sky itself), there is very little real incentive to form player civilizations beyond the sense of community. And thats fine, of course, but they dont operate anything like actual civilizations. That's mainly due to how you can essentially do everything yourself, which again isnt a bad thing, but it puts things like player civs at the level of roleplaying rather than actual societies

[balmy canopy]

Also that there's no In game way to leave an official imprint of the civ. one thing ive noticed in game societies do tend to coalesce around, is the ability to call a swath of territory "Ours" Even adding the ability to officially claim a system and have it register on the star map would be a drawing point

even if its just having the civ logo appear next to the star on the map

it would also be a draw to traveling players, if youre going through a region and you spot a claimed system, youre naturally going to head to it to check it out

[empty bloom]

Claiming wouldnt mean much for a game like nms, and for lnf it would only mean as much as the players are able to actually control

[balmy canopy]

Not saying it would, but it would satisfy that want. also like I said, would be a signal to wandering players on the map that says "Hey, player settled system here."

[empty bloom]

That does exist when players upload bases, but a more interesting mechanic, especially for lnf, would be bases possibly becoming unclaimed/ruined if enough time passes between the player logging on

[balmy canopy]

yeah but not in the star map, you dont see the icon of a player base or settlement there, if you did, it woukd attract players who spot them maybe headed towards the center

[empty bloom]

Yeah, true, though NMS is also at a huge scale for civilizations to operate in any capacity like they would irl

Light No Fire being on a smaller scale means things could probably be done differently in that regard

Its such a funny thing to think about, lol

[balmy canopy]

I mean, just having a system with bases in it highlighted would work, if you see a cluster, you know its either a civilization or a very industrius player

naturally players would head towards them

[empty bloom]

I did actually notice something like that happen for me, though im not sure what specifically triggered it

And I have zero clue if others can see it too

But I have two neighboring systems that have settlements in them, and the line connecting them in the galactic map is much thicker

[balmy canopy]

I think an update that purposefully did that for all players to see would make some regions of space a hot spot of interactions and turn them into crossroads

[empty bloom]

True, though there wouldnt be an easy way to show claims by groups of players

[balmy canopy]

That could be what the station override could be used for. A kind of capital system with a special icon that pops up, maybe with some simple info next to it

clusters of stars around it with player base icons becomes the obvious territory of the civ

[empty bloom]

I wanna see how that would look, mostly because of how utterly small it would make even the biggest player civs look

[balmy canopy]

thats what I was realizing too, even a massive civilization would be small in the galaxy, which would be almost humbling

also imagine the encounter, youre headed towards the center, when you come across a cluster of systems with base icons in a quiet region of space, thats a nice surprise, youre going to head towards it and see what it is

is it an active Civ, is it a dead one whos players havent been on in years, is it just one very active player

[thick arrow]

Had this idea of ruined bases if not kept up or visited and I really think it could lend so much to allowing players to create lore, quests, and civs

[balmy canopy]

We have the new weathering textures on base parts. what if the longer your not on, the more progressively weathered the base looks, but it reverts when you log in

[thick arrow]

What weathering?

[empty bloom]

Right now its a texture that can be applied to the material structures

So for wood, stone, alloys, and scrap you can switch between normal amd weathered (damaged/aged) versions

[left needle]

Indeed

[thick arrow]

Interesting

Also mobs spawning in bases that have been neglected would be fire

[safe brook]

isn't there an old mmo that employs a similar mechanic? i don't remember the name, but i watched a video on it, a bunch of bases and towns and structures that players painstakingly built decades ago and haven't touched in years have now been reduced to just a few pieces left standing here and there, mostly reclaimed by nature

a mechanic like that would be pretty rad, i think

[empty bloom]

If you remember the name or video, let me know, because that sounds interesting

[safe brook]

!!! it was ultima online

the game released in 1997 and is still running, it's got a small but passionate fanbase that still play the game

but if you wander around, most of the structures you see are going to be partially (if not fully) degraded, because probably somewhere around 90-95% of everyone who ever played that game has since stopped

it's...probably higher than 95%, honestly. 1997 was a long time ago and ultima online isn't exactly something you hear being talked about, uh, ever.

still, it's an interesting system, and i'd love to see something like it in lnf even if it isn't quite as punishing as actually removing built parts if they aren't maintained for long enough

[empty bloom]

Yeah, I definitely hope it does, especially since a single massive world would really lend to persistent, connected world features

[dusk hatch]

Hot take: Light fires!

[coarse fractal]

ARSO-

[dusk hatch]

I wonder what role lighting fires will have in LNF or if that was just some philosophical malarky that's just pulling inferences from Prometheus, who stole fire from the gods to bring inspiration to mankind

[empty bloom]

Well, considering the track record of themed naming, I think firebringer themes will be important in lnf

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Really tho? Using No Mans Sky as a reference, I still don't get the theme of that game as it relates to the sky or men.

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Well that is a play on "no man's land" aka unclaimed/unclaimable territory

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woooo

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And then theres the named major entities

We got Atlas, bearing the weight of the heavens

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I hadn't considered cross pollination from other idioms

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Then my favorite (and a recent connection afaik) being the Atlantid

not connected with atlantis, exactly