f1-technical

[ashen solstice]

what is this

[crimson granite]

Ask in #f1-games

[unborn harness]

So I got a modded helmet for F1 2021 and I can’t equip it because I need the Braking Point content dlc. Is there a way I can equip the helmet without buying the dlc?

[limber sluice]

#f1-games
This is f1 tech.

[crimson granite]

Uh all F1 game queries go to #f1-games

[unborn harness]

Oh sorry

[viral geyser]

You guys know how f1 cars have 2 clutchs to do a start right do they do the same when they come into the pits for fresh tyres do the f1 drivers use 2 clutches to get moving or 1 and how do they do it lmao idk? Reply to his message please

[zenith pumice]

yes I believe they do use both clutches when they leave the pits after a stop

since they have to launch the car from stationary again

[viral geyser]

No

[zenith pumice]

2 different tyre compounds could potentially offer some benefits

for example if a track really kills your front tyres then you can put on harder compound tyres in the front to make them wear less

or if your car struggles for rear grip then you could add softer compound tyres on the rear

[south token]

car go vrooom

[zenith pumice]

very #f1-technical thank you

[south token]

yes yes yes my pleasure it has taken me years to study this much technical stuff

[celest cypress]

can i ask u guys a stupid question

what is the drincc button for?

[cedar plume]

It's for drivers to press it and hydrate through the drinking mechanism during the ongoing session

[bronze sun]

it seems like a pretty cool concept, any idea as to why it isnt allowed?

im trying to think of something with safety but idk

[zenith pumice]

no clue why it isn't

[limber sluice]

it will probably discourage 2 stoppers

There is more jeopardy in 2 stoppers

plus the easier u make it for the teams to get around degradation, on paper, the more processional a race can be

[zenith pumice]

I mean ideally it would be allowed to offset problems with wear

but f1 wants tyres to wear, so…

[tawdry geyser]

i think that could be cool but they could also potentially do something like only having to change 2 or 3 tyres at a stop

like the teams could change only the rear tyres if they wanted to

[edgy anchor]

They have 1 clutch, with typicall two paddle actuators. They used to be able to get a bite point calibrated one but that was since outlawed which is stupid

[nocturne dock]

squeezes a bottle somewhere on the car and brings water or whatever other liquid into the driver's mouth

via a tube

[edgy anchor]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/0qXB1446/s6/mercedes-w12-steering-wheel-re.jpg

[past blade]

yumm

[zenith pumice]

interesting how the clutch has 2 grooves, didn’t know about that…

[short ether]

2 fingers, 2 grooves

[zenith pumice]

yeah I just didn’t know it existed there lol

[edgy anchor]

They're obviously depending on driver design

Lewis likes the fingy grippy

[small bison]

Guys I am buying f1 tickets for sochi

And I found a site which states to be the official sochi circute site

Is it legit?

[past blade]

Link it

[celest cypress]

ok i thought it was oil or sth to boost the car

xd

[toxic moth]

That is not F1 technical

[viral geyser]

But then 1 compound would wear in faster than the other meaning you gotta pit and put new tyres in 1 race you could do like 5 stops or something i thinks its just better for use 1 compound on a car

[zenith pumice]

no...

[viral geyser]

Wdym no

[zenith pumice]

if you have issues with rear degradation, then put hards on the rear and mediums on the fronts

when the mediums go off, replace all 4

[viral geyser]

Then your just wasting tyres

[zenith pumice]

no you're not, because you'd be wasting more if you didn't do that

since your issue is with rear degradation

[viral geyser]

Rear tyres have less deg than front

[zenith pumice]

yes... so if your car has a specific problem with rear wearing then you could do hards on the rear

or if you have a specific problem with front right wearing, you can add a hard there with mediums everywhere else. It's a measure to prevent faster degradation if you do have a problem with one specific area of the car

this is all hypothetical by the way. If 2 different compounds were allowed then this could happen

[viral geyser]

Thats kind of dumb cause mediums are in the middle of grip and lasting

[zenith pumice]

dude, you're not understanding what I am saying

[viral geyser]

Ik what your tryna say mate

But the idea is pretty dumb as teams will have to make strats regarding tyres too

1 medium in the left front and 3 softs on other axle

Thats a dumb concept

[zenith pumice]

if your left front wears more rapidly than the others, then it's not

if you literally have a specific problem that your left front side of the car is horrible with wear management, then you could do a harder compound on the left front

it is a completely hypothetical situation in which your left front does not last remotely as long as your other tyres

and in that case, if mixing compounds was allowed, then it could be a potentially good idea

and that's all I am saying.

[past blade]

Teams used to.mix tyre compounds all the times before it was banned

I mean it literally would make sense to say have a softer compound on the right hand side at Austria where there's only 2 left hand corners

[zenith pumice]

yep

[violet smelt]

https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1450385244784300032?s=20
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1450385246395015169?s=20
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1450385247632302087?s=20
https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1450385248865357824?s=20

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

. @GiulyDuchessa reports on the 2022 Ferrari car : "The front wing/nose is now defined and will be quite aggressive and significantly different from the one we have seen at Silverstone [Liberty Media] we hear from a reliable source."

#F1

Twitter · Oct 19, 2021, 8:56 AM

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

. @GiulyDuchessa 's source continues: "As far as the drawings are concerned, those of the fuel tank, chassis and suspensions are now completed. It is always all relative, but the data coming out of the simulator satisfies us."

Twitter · Oct 19, 2021, 8:56 AM

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

"On a technical level, around 40 new simulation and design specialists arrived in Maranello. Grafts in each department meant that it was possible to work with fewer distractions and more effectively on details."

#F1

Twitter · Oct 19, 2021, 8:56 AM

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

"Nobody knows if the Ferrari 674 will be competitive to win, not even in Maranello knows it, but from the signals collected it seems that we can expect something rather brave for 2022."

Full article will be uploaded later by @GiulyDuchessa 😊

#F1

Twitter · Oct 19, 2021, 8:56 AM

[zenith pumice]

is that what they're calling it?

Ferrari 674

[limber sluice]

i likey

the name

return to the 600s

[short ether]

still no Ferrari 166 hybrid.
Wonder what 674 means, if it means anything.

[stable trench]

https://en.wheelsage.org/ferrari/formula_1/2014-pr./pictures/sc6w55

what if the 600s convention never left

[limber sluice]

well when was the last time ferrari said before the season... we will win!

2019 lol

yeah... looks like it

but 673 isnt the outright name, like maybe it could be next year

[zenith pumice]

they just can't follow a naming order can they xd

[short ether]

no

[zenith pumice]

The introduction of the "beam wing" suggests that we can expect little, if any use of rake on the 2022 cars. And as we understand it, one area where the cars will be distinguishable from one another will be the front end. "Our front end is now a lot more defined, and will be significantly different from what we saw on the car shown at Silverstone" is what we heard from a reliable source.

It should not be underestimated that these new cars will be as low as possible, stiffer as well as heavier than the current cars. This could lead to a fair amount of grip in the fast parts of the circuits, but it could also lead to issues in the medium to slow speed parts of the circuits. And it is important to give the driver the ability to attack them to make the best use of the traction on the exit of the corner.

The Pirelli tests with the 18" tyres have provided essential data from the teams, "we all learned a lot about what to expect." The forces that will be come from the new cars are significantly different to the forces that come from the current cars in terms of pitch and roll, but that should not be an issue with proper weight distribution.

On a more technical level, around 40 new simulation and design specialists have arrived at Maranello. Additions in every department have made it possible to work with fewer distractions and more effectively on details. And above all, with more specialists they have been able to assign a greater number of objectives per department.

Nobody knows if the 2022 Ferrari will be competitive enough to win, not even at Maranello do they know as Charles Leclerc confirmed, "development is progressing, although it is always difficult to say anything until we really see the car on track and compare it to the other teams." But from the signals we are getting, it seems like we can expect something rather bold.

Ferrari could be a force to be reckoned with in 22

[past blade]

Anyone could be quite frankly

[violet smelt]

internal name

[limber sluice]

It's not technical, but I'm continuing it here coz otherwise we'll lose track of it, the 1990 was called 641 and 89 and 91 being called 640 and 642.
The 2019 car SF70H I think (who TF comes up with this shite) was code named 670.

It's prolly an Italian thing... (Not knowing numbers). Alfa naming theirs C41... Coz they'd already named the 22 car as C40

[nocturne dock]

sauber's first car was the c12

the other saubers before that wasnt f1

so they continued with that

now its the c41

[spark harness]

the safe spot

hiding from f1 general

[lavish rune]

General is Fun

[small bison]

Why is the russian gp tickets not listed in the f1 site?

[limber sluice]

#formula-1 this is for f1 tech stuff 🙂

[edgy anchor]

https://www.formu1a.uno/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/IMG_5ADF21971D19-1-1024x706.jpeg

2022 tunnels looking cash

[limber sluice]

sexy.. very sexy

[celest cypress]

how many pp can we put in those?

[limber sluice]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1447863701684559877?s=20

Tobi Grüner 🏁 (@tgruener)

Ban of tyre warmers on the agenda of tomorrows F1 commission meeting. Latest proposal suggests a ban of blankets for wet & intermediates in 2022 and a gradual temperature reduction for slicks until blankets are banned completely in 2024.

AMuS (in German): https://t.co/u7BYRE7uuh

Likes

676

Twitter · Oct 12, 2021, 9:56 AM

what good would that do tho

we have had blankets... since... almost forever

[left quest]

lol

[zenith pumice]

I guess they're trying to make it tougher

like you know, IndyCar has no tyre blankets to warming the tyres is an essential part of the strategy

[rich gust]

Will the 2022 cars be shorter than the current cars

[limber sluice]

well.. teams will get around it with different setups, and pressures.

adds more jeopardy to it, by making it natural

nice thought

[toxic moth]

Marginally, I believe.

[edgy anchor]

Wheelbase is capped at 3.6
If you're Mercedes then yes, coz their wheelbase is 3,726mm
If you're Red Bull with 3,550? Nawh

[zenith pumice]

IndyCar does it, like I said

it can be a potentially good idea

but to be honest, I don't really see the point to remove tyre blankets either

[short ether]

puts more emphasis on drivers warming up their tyres properly.

[zenith pumice]

yeah

[limber sluice]

I see the moot point... Of it

But engineers will get around it

Like.. slippery eels they are

Lol let's face it, they've gotten around around single problem they are thrown

[short ether]

yes, that;'s their job

[limber sluice]

Yup yup... I'm just in my October mood of giving up ...that anything will work

[jolly patrol]

it will also help reducing costs for the team in a capped budget era, tyre blankets costs a lot of money to the teams

[zenith pumice]

yeah but it's a 1-time investment for a really good return

the value you'll get from tyre warmers is huge

[jolly patrol]

obviously else they wouldn't pay for it

[zenith pumice]

yes

[jolly patrol]

so if everyone is spending a lot of money to be on the same level with the same things, why not just ban the thing and let the teams use money for something else

same happened with wheel guns in nascar

teams were spending millions to develop the fastest wheel guns for pitstops

so they just made it standard for everyone

the focus should be on having the fastest car design, not having the best tyre blankets

[zenith pumice]

I don't really think that the tyre blankets are different from team to team

and even if they are, they're not doing tyre blanket R&D like they would do tyre R&D or any other component of the car R&D

the point is that they're fairly same across the teams

and there's no need to ban tyre blankets because they're not giving anyone an unfair advantage

so I do ask, what's the harm in keeping them?

[short ether]

there's no harm in keeping them, but it's better for the show to remove them

bigger difference with fresh cold tyres vs 1-2 lap old ones

so this changes the pitstop strategy a bit

[zenith pumice]

if you want to better the show get rid of DRS and make the cars less dirty-air inducing

[short ether]

they're doing the latter

[zenith pumice]

then drivers would have to fight for their track position without having a push to pass

[zenith pumice]

yep that's a good step

[short ether]

the fun bit is.. a push to pass is less broken than the DRS

cause you can use it to defend

[zenith pumice]

lol

[jolly patrol]

what's the harm in removing them

I only see advantages to remove them

[zenith pumice]

advantages to the viewers yes

but to be honest I don't see the point of removing the tyre warmers, because they're not harming anyone nor are they taking away from the action

[short ether]

they cost money and are not essential

[zenith pumice]

they cost money and are not essential
well yes of course they cost money lol, but the teams spend that money because it makes the tyres already warm hence giving them better performance from the start

so to the teams, yes they are essential

[short ether]

they are only essential because everyone have them

if you don't and the others do, you are at a disadvantage

but if nobody can get them

[zenith pumice]

and everyone has them for a reason, because they can get better performance from them

and that's all f1 teams care about

[short ether]

we won't agree on this cause we're not taking the same point of view

[zenith pumice]

well yeah that’s called an argument

but we can drop it, it’s all good

[short ether]

we can continue

of course they're a great advantage, and teams want to keep it as it maximises their tyre usage

but, they're not essential, the car can still function without them.
teams will just have to scratch their heads a bit to compensate this

they won't suddenly become garbage

however. they might have to change the way their car is built to help them warm their tyres properly. some teams are better than others at this

[zenith pumice]

you could do DAS-style thing to distribute heat more evenly

shame it’s banned

but yeah you’ll need to strike a balance between aggressive heating in the opening laps and not wearing your tyres too much

[short ether]

mhm, something Mercedes was quite bad at when Brawn was there for instance

[limber sluice]

Well while DAS is banned I don't think I found a rule that said the work that DAS did was banned

That rule could have slipped under my nose

Pretty sure they all are already doing that thing... In some other way

[zenith pumice]

DAS itself was banned, but what it did was distribute heat to the extremities of the wheels (lateral insides and outsides)

I’m not sure how else you could do that

[limber sluice]

DAS was basically pulling the wheel towards you. Right? Like the reach steering in a car.
If they can do that with changing differential settings or I dunno... If they can do that with the push of a button

The rule FIA introduced to counter DAS was that you can't use the steering for anything except turning it left and right

I am not being very pursuasive here, I know... But I'm pretty sure lol that if anyone can find a way to make it work by the push of a button... Merc can

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/736290552722489405.png?v=1&size=40

Tell me if I'm wrong

[short ether]

@granite tundra hello

[edgy anchor]

DAS in and of itself was a passive suspension loophole for the driver to pull the wheel to straighten out the toe angle of the front axle, which allows them to be straight in a straight or fully out in a corner, which can help remove a compromising element of setting up the suspension

This allows you to keep the tyres cooler as they have less ability to scrub in their intended zone

Or scrub more if used the wrong way, say on a warm-up

I know I'm explaining this from ground zero but... Idk

[limber sluice]

But can that job be done without using the steering wheel? Maybe with a push of a button... Or I dunno a dodgy thing with the differential settings (they would be tight, I think no)

[edgy anchor]

No, because that'd make it not passive

[limber sluice]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/736290554408861748.png?v=1&size=40

Lemme take that in

Lol

[edgy anchor]

DAS made a loophole because it was able to count as steering

As opposed to active suspension

[limber sluice]

Aah jeez

Aah okok

Ok bloody smart

Cool thanks mate

[edgy anchor]

Because the steering wheel can turn wheels, it never stated if they had to be steered the same way

[zenith pumice]

I would explain but SkippY did it already

[limber sluice]

Yeah

[edgy anchor]

The brain is yuuuuj

[limber sluice]

I gotcha lol

It's

[zenith pumice]

mega brain

[limber sluice]

Bloody smart

Rubbing Tummy... F duct

Vibes

[short ether]

again, it's their job

what does the rulebook say

then, what does the rulebook not say

[limber sluice]

Yeah they have a group of people sitting down in a corner just trying to find loopholes

[zenith pumice]

to quote Jeremy Clarkson
"now, there was nothing in the rules that said you could do this. But critically, there was nothing that said you couldn't"

[honest hare]

Mercedes: This guy is a genius

[drowsy nacelle]

DAS only affects the front axle imo. Ofcourse your toe can affect the amount of traction effort and therefore the rear wheel temps as well, not sure by how much though

I hope I am not talking in my sleep rn, front axle doesn't have a differential

Also front and rear braking system is not independent

Buttons on the wheel but what can they possibly do

Food for thought on what else could be done

I guess

[zenith pumice]

I don’t think rear temps will be affected that much
the point of DAS was to just distribute heat to the extremities of the tyre better

[zealous mirage]

https://streamable.com/j0vhsx

The amount of rear ride-height drop the Merc has is just insane
But I guess Active Ride-Height systems are banned since 2015 right Merc??

Again they slip under the radar and bring back banned tech for a few races since the FIA won't take actions

ever since 2013's illegal testing Merc have been a disgrace to the sport

[tacit bridge]

didnt red bull have some moving stuff at the rear earlier in the season

[zealous mirage]

Flex wings?
Merc have had front flex wings
And both have been withing margins that it's still within the rules

But something as clear as this should be straight up illegal

Bottas drops several centimeters of ride height in the straights

no wonder Merc's top speed have been so high recently

[tacit bridge]

ok

[limber sluice]

dont see why it should be illegal tho

its not a loophole that could be easily closed

plus they design this in a way that makes it a highly natual process

[zenith pumice]

this isn’t “active”, this is downforce pushing on the softer springs of the rear suspension as you accelerate further

[limber sluice]

plus, the high rake of the red bull does stick out like a sore thumb

in the straights

[zenith pumice]

people really out here trying to ban suspension

[steel lily]

suspension moves, thats kinda the point

[zenith pumice]

also, like every team has this, Mercedes just set that suspension up to be a bit softer

watch the other onboards, they’re all the same

[limber sluice]

cant have cars shattered into pieces....

[zenith pumice]

something as obvious as this
as obvious as what? Using the forces of nature to make your piece of carbon fibre go faster? yeah that’s all of f1

[feral vessel]

https://twitter.com/scarbstech/status/1451638200003407872?s=21

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

A thread about #F1 trick rear suspension.
Teams have been using a trick set up called "collapsible rear heave springs". This boosts top speed and has been a trick used knowingly by all teams for years.

Likes

491

Twitter · Oct 22, 2021, 7:54 PM

[edgy anchor]

Oooh it's intentional huh?

As in like an intentional loophole

[limber sluice]

coz he does it himself

i mean.. the car does. it.. not christian

[edgy anchor]

Unless 😩

[zenith pumice]

rofl

but yeah this isn't new

every team is aware of it, Bottas or Mercedes just set their cars up to do this

[limber sluice]

unless he is in the middle of the race sitting on the airbox?

[zenith pumice]

invisible Horner 😳

[limber sluice]

these springs

did u read anything about them

how do they actually come down

the downforce is set in such a way that air pushes the car down at the back?

[zenith pumice]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/gary-anderson-explains-new-mercedes-f1-suspension-part-4988177/4988177/

[limber sluice]

and the springs allow the car to come down by a few millimeters

ah i love gary

ty

ty

[zenith pumice]

this is an article about heave springs

[limber sluice]

ah back then merc was looking for top speed

[zenith pumice]

it's a really useful element

allows the car to be smoother over kerbs too

he also did this

@limber sluice https://the-race.com/formula-1/gary-anderson-explains-mercedes-suspension-trick/

well written article I'd say

[little veldt]

That has been there for years I swear

[drowsy nacelle]

Agreed

[little veldt]

Buddy they’ve been doing this for a few years with this suspension trick and so has every other team 😂

This is also within the rules

[short ether]

wings flex that's just the way they work

[little veldt]

Yeah

F1 wings aren’t rigid even Indycar wings flex

[crimson granite]

https://fxtwitter.com/swiftsambi/status/1451624490882924546

RB are doing the same lmfao

[little veldt]

Smh whenever Mercedes is pointed out for a car innovation it’s called cheating but if another team does it it’s somehow a 30000iq move

[crimson granite]

its just like how suspension works

[little veldt]

Yes because f1 doesn’t use conventional suspension

It’s also not new 😳

Been happening for a while. MIND BLOWN

[limber sluice]

Well... They have to flex or otherwise no one will finish the race

Everyone will get a rear wing failure

[limber sluice]

Ty ty

[little veldt]

Yeah the force will rip the wings off

[limber sluice]

Yeah... Break em into 2

[short ether]

reminds me of the plan suggested near 2009

[zenith pumice]

eeeeeeeeee

what is that 🤣

[short ether]

an attempt to reduce dirty air iirc

[zenith pumice]

twin boom tail but instead of on bombers it's on f1 cars

[rich gust]

Looks very indycar

[tacit bridge]

FE style

[celest cypress]

imagine how fast will an f1 car be at 3000

[zenith pumice]

at 3000?

not quite sure I follow

[fallen tulip]

the year 3000 I think

[zenith pumice]

if we even have f1 by the year 3000

[fallen tulip]

gon rename it f3000

[short ether]

Serious, detailed and in-depth technical discussion about Formula 1

ah yes

[fallen tulip]

indeed

[wispy jacinth]

whats this supposed to be? the two green dots

[edgy anchor]

Those I believe are the indicating holes for the nose bolts

[steel lily]

For easy removal during a pitstop probably

[vale inlet]

Why did many of the drivers from top teams choose softs for Q1 and mediums for Q2, when teams like Mercedes or RB could easily have cleared Q1 with mediums, even on their bad day.

[crimson granite]

because that would waste a set of mediums

[edgy anchor]

Drivers use the set of tyres they made their runs on in Q2

To start the race

[green marlin]

What era was the most aerodynamical era?

[short ether]

probably the V8 era

[heavy terrace]

🪠

[bleak estuary]

.

[edgy anchor]

The most aerodynamical?

In... Ohhh boy this is a fun one

Coz what's the objective of most aerodynamic?

[little veldt]

Definitely V8 era

The V6 era has been mostly an engine era

In my opinion the red bull had greater downforce in 2018 than the merc and Ferrari but a shit engine

2006-2008 was a big aero era with the winglets on the cars

Then 2009-2013 was kinda the start of proper front wings and the trademark rear of the car which hasn’t drastically changed in looks other than being stretched

[short ether]

Idk if u seen it but

On the straights at COTA, I saw the Mercedes chassis drop down and when the car brakes , it comes back up

It has be the suspension or something...but I can't figure it out

[zenith pumice]

the aero on those V8 cars was just... woah

so complex

[short ether]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-rear-suspension-movement-is-the-hot-topic-at-cota-the-tech-talk.dkSt4dP4i7gR4O2ayN4mS.html

[civic fern]

Depends on what you define as Most Aerodynamic

Theres max downforce and best aero efficiency

Which is basically downforce to drag ratio

Case in point, the 2018 vs 2019 cars

Look at the front wing

In theory, they generate the same amount of downforce

The 2018 does it with all those winglets and little pieces you see on the front wing, but creates a lot of dirty air in the process

The 2019 regulations want to reduce dirty air (another topic), so it got rid of the winglets

And compensated for the downforce by simply having a bigger front wing

But the bigger surface area causes more drag for the same amount of downforce, leading to worse aero efficiency.

This entire design philosophy difference between DF and AE is literally the 2019 season. Ferrari came up with the SF90 that had an engine cranked up to 11. Then focused on AE for aero, and ended up with a straight line rocket that also simply didn’t have the DF. Mercedes focused on DF, and came up with the W10 which was admittedly a very draggy car but it did have the necessary DF.

Ferrari simply went down the wrong development path which at the time was still being compensated for in the overpowered engine. But a few FIA technical directives removed that hp advantage, and thats (partly) how they ended up with the terrible SF1000 last year. Another classic Ferrari tragedy in itself

So to go back to your question, in terms of maximum downforce the current era is likely the highest, and you can see that reflected in the cornering speeds

In terms of aero efficiency, V8s are worth looking at

[viscid shoal]

If I want to smarten (is that even a word?... probably not... educate myself, yknow) myself, I just go here, its very informative, yet explained simple

So massive thanks to all the people here who are doing their part

[rotund kelp]

True, thanks a million to everyone who takes the time to post resources and answer questions here

[nocturne dock]

early v8 era

or this era were in rn

[willow marsh]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Sauber_F1.08#/media/File:Nick_Heidfeld_2008_test.jpg

[upper ivy]

I think the cars since then do come close tbh

they may not have all those wings on the body anymore, but instead we used to have crazy front wings and currently the bargeboards are insanely detailed

[willow marsh]

That double front wing tough

Or yeah.. maybe 2018, the aeros where crazy

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/78/21/6a7821438e12c6caeafc36aea4f8f1be.jpg

Nvm just saw @civic fern just pointed that out

[short ether]

when i said V8 era, it was because of the engine freeze it had

not because the cars had some extreme aero in like 2008

[cursive shoal]

it's hard to define because depends of what purpose have your aero development, but in general terms, i think between 2005-2008 and 2017 era have the most demential aero of all time, but if you're talking about how easily the air goes through cars, formulas are not really good

[plush panther]

Had no idea just how much bigger they have gotten…

[lusty sonnet]

what can u expect tho, the more technology your fitting into a car obviously the bigger the car you need innit

you cant expect to put components in a for example 2021 car into a 1980s f1 car

[civic fern]

Well, and safety

[left quest]

yup

especially with todays engine

[zenith pumice]

I’m sure there’s other benefits to making the car longer, but I don’t know it so if someone does then please let me know

apart from like, longer channels and stuff, which is a given

[short ether]

Look at the Mercedes, for example, it has a long wheel base, that's because they want to maximise aero efficiency and increase stability

And long wheel base means in that case a longer car

And it allows to channel the air over a longer distance I think

https://www.generatingcompany.co.uk/2021/05/24/thats-why-formula-1-cars-are-so-long/

[sick falcon]

Is it likely that both verstappen and Hamilton gonna get new power units ?

[edgy anchor]

Two faazand eight bruv

[nocturne dock]

yeeeeeeeeeeee m8

[edgy anchor]

I love it even if I know that level of aero development is sucky

[green marlin]

You mean all of these winglets here?
In the end of the day, in the total view, what would be the fastest car around a corner? An aero efficient car, or a car that creates a lot of pure downforce, but isn't very aero efficient?

[short ether]

a track isn't made of only corners, luckily

[green marlin]

Hmm, interessting. After what I've read and understood, the V8 era and the current era is the most aerodynamic, in the total view.

[green marlin]

Monaco and Zandvoort wants to talk with you. xD

[civic fern]

around a corner? the exact amount of downforce where the car can go flat out.

any more would create excess drag

any less means it can't go flat

around a track, you extrapolate that into many corners and try to find the best balance between downforce and straight line speed

the two ends of the spectrum are Monaco (full downforce) and Monza (minimum drag)

every other track is somewhere in between

it's also why "power track" doesn't always mean the entire place is just straight lines (i.e. Monza)

Suzuka for example is basically all turns yet it's still a Power track because the exact level of downforce needed (not maximum) is a constant, so once again the difference is in the engine power

[sick falcon]

Thought it's ass for mercedes to limit test PU on bottas then remembered Redbull has a whole second team to do that

[nocturne dock]

buy williams

[sleek trail]

Do the rules say you can only have 1 engine on the car

[edgy anchor]

Wdym 1 engine?

[short ether]

lmao

[zenith pumice]

I assume he wants to know if you can have more than one engine in the car

which is probably not allowed unless there’s a loophole we’ve magically found

[short ether]

Why was the flexi wing banned and not mercedes' suspension—as seen in istanbul—when they both try to reduce drag in the straights?

[crimson granite]

every suspension squats

thats the case with every car

even the Red Bull

there's nothing flexing

[short ether]

Ahh i see but why is it more effective for Mercedes? Is it because they use a lower rake?

[crimson granite]

its probably their suspension geometry

[short ether]

Awesome engineering

[crimson granite]

agreed

[short ether]

flexi wings aren't banned, there's an amount they're allowed to flex

[crimson granite]

Yea that too

[short ether]

It may be mad

Feel free to ping

To bring me back to reality

But

I had an idea

Why don't design our own F1 car from other years technical regs

[feral shell]

Yep

[tawny spindle]

what is carlos wearing?

i think its for some cooling but i dont know shit

[versed inlet]

it is for cooling yep

many drivers wear it for hot races

[short ether]

Nah it's an armor just in case ricciardo hits him in the balls again

[short ether]

Serious, detailed and in-depth technical discussion about Formula 1

[empty narwhal]

Oih. He always makes that sound 😂😂

[rotund kelp]

And then kicks his or lando’s butts 😂

[empty narwhal]

I don't feel like reading through 3000 pages

[short ether]

🤣🥲

[past blade]

petition to ban engine covers

[empty narwhal]

😩 that looks so cool, but I do wonder what would happen to cooling, downforce and the engine components

[past blade]

oh it would be ruined most likely lmao

[empty narwhal]

Nah fr tho the technical regulations are so big, I feel like I'm studying for 10 exams at once 😵🥴

[empty narwhal]

Lmao yes.

[calm urchin]

components after a crash goo brr

[edgy anchor]

https://s38.wheelsage.org/picture/l/lotus/91/lotus_91_7.jpeg

[crimson granite]

What is the numbering on the tyres?

[cursive wraith]

I was assuming thickness of the tyres or smth

[past blade]

To know what tyre is which
It's compound
I would assume

I don't think they'd have had set numbers then because it wasn't really restricted

[celest cypress]

WHAT HAPPENED

[crimson granite]

his engine cover came off

free practice in Monza iirc

[proven spade]

brooo

how does that happen

kinda like perez's blowing off during testing this year

[crimson granite]

Ig it was loose

[sick falcon]

Hamilton might get a new Pu but ith verstappen won't ?

[civic fern]

"how the fuck is this possible" in an angry Kimi voice

[proven spade]

Where'd u hear that from

[rotund kelp]

I’m afraid of that, last time Bottas changed engine Hamilton wasn’t far behind, was he

Especially since they changed it again so soon after the previous one bc or reliability issues

[zenith pumice]

I'm not sure I follow

[feral vessel]

https://twitter.com/scarbstech/status/1455154220236251140?s=21

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

Theres a lot going on the front end of the Red Bull RB16b. Ducting, tanks and suspension geometry.

Likes

529

Twitter · Nov 1, 2021, 12:46 PM

[feral vessel]

Question : which rake angle would be better for the 2022 cars ?

[edgy anchor]

I think it's again up in the air

Rake angle might be high because the rear wheels have the rear wheel hub sealing fences on the diffuser exit

[steel lily]

Probably depends on the concepts that the teams go for as well

[edgy anchor]

https://cdn.crash.net/image_importer/F1/2868206.0064.jpg

Those peeps

[proven spade]

i think they changed valtteri's engine so many times so they could trial different things with the engine for next year so there arent any reliability concerns

bc i mean 6 is a bit excessive

[rotund kelp]

Hm i don’t think so they did admit to reliability issues + I think at this point they’d rather have him back up Lewis

[edgy anchor]

2022 cars got them 👀 Tunnels

[short ether]

Serious, detailed and in-depth technical discussion about Formula 1

[short ether]

Hello

[proven spade]

yeah but they've changed his engine so many times in such a short period of time

if valtteri's engine is getting changed over reliability concerns, why not lewis' too?

[rotund kelp]

That’s what we’re going to find out soon…

[proven spade]

yeah but valtteri's was also being changed so frequently

imo it was a bit absurd

[deft burrow]

Lewis probably isn’t running as high engine power

If anything, I would bet my money on it being an engine stockpile so that Bottas can run full power in the final races and practically throw away the engines each race

That way he can be a mobile roadblock for Verstappen

[cursive wraith]

Lewis would be nowhere near Max if he was running a low engine mode

[short ether]

the new wing is so slick

[zenith pumice]

clearly there are lol

they’ve admitted that none of Valtteri’s engines can be used again because of structural damage iirc

Mercedes HPP is possibly facing some issues

[fiery venture]

Set numbers. Sometimes tires might be of the same compound, but have different pressures. It keeps them organized.

[crimson granite]

ah that makes sense

[fiery venture]

At least, I know in other leagues that's the purpose.

I don't think you can modify tire pressures in Formula 1, anymore.

[crimson granite]

iirc there's a range for tire pressures

[fiery venture]

I'm not too sure. I rarely glance at the Formula 1 rulebook.

[crimson granite]

same

imma go check it

[past blade]

you can change tyre pressures but theres an enforced minimum pressure you cant go below

[fiery venture]

Ah, okay.

[crimson granite]

so it is a range then?

[past blade]

i mean calling it a range implies theres a maximum tyre pressue which there isnt

but more or less i guess you could think of it like that if you wanted to

[fiery venture]

Probably just a minimum. Super high pressures aren't that beneficial, at least in Formula 1.

Also, I realized I somewhat echoed the same response as Heavy. When I opened the channel, I didn't see their entire response.

Sorry about that.

[crimson granite]

ah gotcha

[proven spade]

How does that happen after one or two races tho

Just doesnt make sense to me

[zenith pumice]

no clue

[proven spade]

And then lewis doing significantly more miles on his

[short ether]

bottas has had two bad crashes at imola and hungary

whereas lewis hasn't had one where his engine would be damaged significantly

[proven spade]

Why should that affect the reliability of his current engine though

[short ether]

where's the article which refers to the other ones?

or like any source

merc's said they've had issues

so ig its that

anyways regardless my point still is that hamilton isn't a great comparison since he's not had any of his engines damaged by a crash significantly so he can obv run longer on his

its prob not racing looks like its some structural issues

since perez had a bunch of engine failures at the end of 2020

which cost RP what would have been a fairly easy 3rd place if perez finished where he was

[rich gust]

Do the rules dictate what a V6 engine can be?

I was thinking if it was possible to use 2, 3cyl engines arranged in a V formation

Though I dunno if there would be any advantages to that

[zenith pumice]

there wouldn't be, in fact it'd be more cumbersome

because what if one of your 3cyls is working fine and the other one has an issue? you're increasing the variables that can go wrong

[limber sluice]

engine in a V r compact as well. they will correspond better with the chassis and the aero. i am sure it will have some benefits over a conventional V6. but... i dont think the current rules will benefit that setup more than the former. there is prolly a rule somewhere that dictates the arrangement

[short ether]

The regulations are pinned, search cylinder in the technical regs, pretty sure it just says 6 cylinders in V-shape, something along those lines

[limber sluice]

Yeah, it's a fundamental one

Should be there

[edgy anchor]

A VR isn't possible for these when the V-Angle is regulated at 90°

Also it's more likely to be heavier, longer, and not as good for chassis stress

[short ether]

Oh the angle is set at 90 in the regs? Yeah not a lot of room then

[edgy anchor]

Yeah, hence Ferrari hasn't gone to 120°V's and others haven't used 60's

120°V's would ideally be the best for the engine but maybe not chassis

[civic fern]

I think the source of all these engine issues is Mercedes HPP

[short ether]

Idk, a wider V lowers the center of gravity, doesn't it

[edgy anchor]

Yes

But you might have a little more issues with torsional rigidity, tho I guess with a wider engine your support pounts could be around the 90° mark

120° is the ideal because you have no firing order issues

The 296GTB is finally being a car that uses one

[short ether]

Yeah 720/6 is 120

[edgy anchor]

I'd adore a wide angle set of engines

Like a 120°V12, 144°V10, 180 or 120 V8

For the bois

[short ether]

144 V10... Have we had that in f1 ? Iirc they were all 72⁰

[edgy anchor]

The range for V10's was 67°-112°

Both extremes funnily enough used by Renault

67° by Renault, 68° by Porsche kinda, 72°, 75°, 80°, 90° and 111/112°

[short ether]

Porsche? when did Porsche had a V10? Unless you mean the one they had to put in the Carrera GT

[edgy anchor]

Yeah

Coz that was designed as an F1 V10

It seems that the best angles for the 3.5 era chassis was 75° then after into the 3.0's 90°V's dominatwd

[feral vessel]

When they were planning to supply engines to Arrows around 1998, right ?

[edgy anchor]

In 1998-1999 they were using Arrows Branded JUDD/Yamaha JV's/OX11's

In 1991 Footwork Arrows got Porsche V12's which were a shoddily rushed pair of their Turbo V6's put together and bored out slightly to make it 3.5

[blazing saffron]

and Porsche was building a purpose-built V10 for 1992, only for Footwork to cancel their deal with Porsche halfway through 1991 because of how bad that 1991 engine was

kinda wish that it wasn't cancelled but at the same time, maybe it was the best thing for both as Footwork were nowhere with those engines, and Porsche wasn't doing particularly well financially in the early 90s themselves

[edgy anchor]

Footwork done signed the deal for Mugen-Honda and that was it

[short ether]

shame

[edgy anchor]

Would've been pog if they'd gone to Lotus as they fell through with Isuzu

[short ether]

Lotus-Porsche has a nice ring to it

[edgy anchor]

But then again it would've been even more pog if Isuzu went with Lotus, Porsche stayed with Footwork, and Mugen stayed with Tyrrell

One step further and we have Benetton with the Cosworth VB 70°V12

Have I gone far enough yet?

[blazing saffron]

imagine that and McLaren going with Lamborghini in 1994

[edgy anchor]

Or Mercedes bring up the Flat-12

[proven spade]

?

[edgy anchor]

What you put before that deleted

[edgy anchor]

Wait not you

[tardy crypt]

Can someone explain to me how OEMs reconcile a Formula 1 front wing, that has literally ZERO road relevancy with the power unit having to be somehow "road relevant" ???

I think there's a huge cognitive dissonance going on here and nobody is even talking about it

"Here's this fucking insane aero front wing, bargeboards, underfloor, and rear wing that your road car will NEVER have...

Also here's a power unit that maybe 5% of of it will end up on your Renault Clio one day"

🤡

[crimson granite]

Why would a manufacturer join F1 to make engines if they basically can’t use the tech developed in their road cars

[tardy crypt]

Why would anybody join F1 to begin with?

[vivid garnet]

Has Red Bull brought any upgrades with them to Mexico gp

[empty narwhal]

Smart people, currently being bullied by ***** saying Tesla helps the planet and does good. Whereas more electricity is non-sustainably being produced to meet demand for electrity thanks to Teslas. Opinion?

[past blade]

except sources of sustainable energy production are always icnreasing

besides the point

everyone running electric cars using charges powered by fossil fuel plants

is far mroe enviromentally friendly than everyone running fossil fuel cars

[crimson granite]

usually advertise their product and make money

[crimson granite]

err not really F1 related

[empty narwhal]

Shit sorry

[empty narwhal]

Interesting, thanks for letting me know

[granite tundra]

it's total bullshit

even if there isn't a massive shift to renewables and low-emissions power generation, powering electric cars through fossil fuels is still more efficient than doing it through an ICE

[past blade]

its not a perfect solution BUT

its the better solution

[tardy crypt]

The answer is:

Smaller power plants are super inefficient compared to huge ones.

Even if you fully charge your Tesla from the grid, and the grid is powered by fossil fuels, you're still saving CO2.

But Teslas right now are mostly only sold in first world nations... and most first world nations get A LOT of their electricity from nuclear... and nuclear generates a grand total of ZERO carbon emissions

[short ether]

Do you know how much g of co2 is generated per kWh of energy for petrol? Can't find ln google. Then we have to factor the thermal efficiency of what, 25% for ices?

[clear vine]

What is hpp default 35

And also how do I learn more about technical stuff where do I go

[edgy anchor]

The Valkyrie kinda has a front wing... Like that

[paper wing]

Congrats @edgy anchor, you're now on lap 15

[empty narwhal]

Mhm, good to know

[empty narwhal]

Yeah didn't think about that

[empty narwhal]

Yeah I guess it's a bit more efficient, researches are saying that too, welp I guess I learnt a lot today

[short ether]

Mercedes AMG One

[edgy anchor]

Valkyrie

[feral vessel]

V12 Cosworth engines

[edgy anchor]

Big big pog

Happened 25 years after they tried it before

[short ether]

didn't know they tried, when was this?

[edgy anchor]

In 1992 Ford had announced they were working on a V12 called the VB for Benetton

I can't find a good pic of it coz they're hard to find

But they didn't get a significant power increase to offset the fuel useage, and it's crank had inherited weaknesses so

[short ether]

ok 🙂
in the end, Cosworth is the only one who stuck to the V8 for that long

[edgy anchor]

I think the whole weight things and refuelling killed it

[short ether]

the V8?
idk what weight thing you're referring to, a V8 should be lighter in theory

unless you mean the V12

[edgy anchor]

I meant the V8 when they went back to 3.0's

[lament brook]

Do the 2022 cars have drs?

[past blade]

yes

its being kept on for 2022

then well see

but from what i undertsnad it works a little differently
but dont ask how lol

[lament brook]

Ohk, when they showed the car the back wing was a whole one piece so I thought there was no drs

[past blade]

i think the aim woudl be not to have DRS but it would just be foolish to get rid of it when we have no idea how the car will be

but its pretty simple i guess
if the cars dont need DRS they jsut wont add drs zones to the track even if its still in the rules

[lament brook]

Yea

[zenith pumice]

one day we’ll get rid of DRS

that day will be glorious

[short ether]

Aye it will. Really hoping the regs work as they want in terms of dirty air

[coarse steeple]

yeah

thats the thing

drs is fun for me

[maiden lotus]

ye

[zenith pumice]

I don't like it

as has been said before, it's a cheap push to pass

[short ether]

except you can't defend with it

in a way, i'd rather have push to pass than the drs

[edgy anchor]

P2P is miles better

And essentially is just... The engine modes they banned

[proven spade]

Exactly why i dont like it aswell

Imo they shouldnt have banned the engine modes merc powered cars were using

I never saw a problem with it

[mellow sedge]

DRS i feel like doesnt require THAT much skill, as it is just push button, go faster, but it does take some skill to catch up to the person to get into the drs range

but im no f1 expert so correct me if im wrong

also how would DRS work on 2022 cars, from what theyve showed on th F1 channel the rear wing looks like 1 whole curved piece

[mellow sedge]

also can someone explain how ERS works? is it some electric motor that just spins faster than the engine to make the engine accelerate faster?

[edgy anchor]

So the ERS deploys through the MGU-K

Which is... Essentially just a 161bhp Starter Motor, which can also be used as an Alternator

It's directly linked to the engine so it just adds power and torque straight up

[simple mason]

Are any rules changing in 2022

[edgy trout]

the cars now look like lawnmowers

[civic fern]

well that's the thing, being unable to follow another car through corners means no chance of overtakes

2017-present cars lose like 50% of their downforce following another

that is not a trivial driver git gud issue

that is a every track becomes Hungary or Monaco level issue

thats why tracks like Barcelona are so boring right now

cars straight up can't follow each other through the corners, and don't make the lost time back on the straight without DRS

[civic fern]

it should. the dependence on downforce sourced from wings is far less. the wings themselves are simplified further

im guessing theres basically gonna be two aero sub-departments in the 2022 cars

one that focuses on underbody ground effect, and the other on the traditional wings

they generate downforce in completely different ways but still have to work together to function on the same chassis

[little veldt]

80% within 8 tenths

That was for the 2018 cars tho

That had extremely complex aero

It’s decreased in the past 2 years

[shut spade]

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/simulating-williams-fw43bar-part-1-all-simulations-wrong-david-penner/?trackingId=mNDNelXrbTaTXHx7NHTRjA%3D%3D

if someone cares about CFD

[languid fractal]

Something I struggle with a bit more.

Is downforce more important on high speed corners or low-speed?

[normal tangle]

High speed, usually the diffuser and underbody aero is better with the low speed stuff

[languid fractal]

Maybe I'm wrong but I have heard people say the merc is better than the rb at circuits with high speed corners. But at the same time I have heard people say the rb can generate better to enforce than the merc

[normal tangle]

The chassis weight distribution on a Merc is better in terms of cornering, which is good for low and medium speed, but aero is king at high speed corners

[languid fractal]

Alright, thanks for the explanation

[normal tangle]

👍

[queen locust]

https://youtu.be/Dn0zumNvxK4

Why did they fly a white flag in 9:46 ?

[tawny spindle]

hey guys

i have a question

during a race how do they keep the driver's drink cold? in case they do

maybe it just gets warm and thats it

[cursive wraith]

I don't think they even cool it

Cuz the drink sometimes is so hot it literally burns their lip

[short ether]

They don't

[languid atlas]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/68yAjvx0/s6/red-bull-racing-rb16b-front-br.jpg

brake ducts on rb16b looking complicated af

[past blade]

They don't

You just get a burnt mouth

[rotund kelp]

Yeah I think Max was saying in a conference that by lap 20 it’s either not worth drinking or there’s nothing left anyway

[short ether]

looks like a plane engine

[limber sluice]

lets hope it doesnt get hacked... right

[cursive wraith]

[feral vessel]

This one's looks like the Post-Hungary spec, which was the brake duct they opted for last year, to simply increase the airflow and cooling at the expense of more drag.

Compared to this one the post-hungary brake duct is the one in the RB16, and the pre-hungary one in the RB16B

[zenith pumice]

man these cars are so complex

gotta love it

[tawny spindle]

what is lewis serving a penality for?

[rotund kelp]

He’s not yet

He might change his engine but that’s a big might

They’re probably trying to decide which is the best gamble right now and how much chance there’s is of his engine catching fire during a race vs the benefit of changing it and taking another penalty so close to the end of the season

[civic fern]

Corner specific

The fastest way to get around any given corner is to run exact amount of downforce to take it flat out

Any more and its excess drag

Any less and you have to lift

In relation to F1, downforce is most important in low speed than high speed

“Low” being about 40 mph because they have so much aero that downforce matters even at those speeds

Thats why Monaco and Hungary are full downforce tracks, even though their average speeds aren’t that high

Its also why Silverstone and Suzuka are considered power tracks, especially considering the latter is nothing but high speed turns

[civic fern]

Because the optimal downforce as described here is a constant, so lap time comes back to engine power

[civic fern]

I don’t think thats necessarily true

Merc’s specialty was never outright downforce. It was aero efficiency.

Going back to the example of Suzuka, every team runs the constant amount of downforce. Mercedes vs. Williams, for example. Same downforce, same engine. Why is the Merc faster? It accomplishes that downforce with a lot less drag, hence better aero efficiency

But the 2021 regulations hurt the Merc when it came to AE, not in downforce. (Which is why originally people thought high rake cars would be affected more)

The W12 can still generate the necessary amount of downforce as in previous years, its just that it comes with a much higher drag penalty. That’s why you’re seeing losses in traditional Merc (downforce constant) tracks like France and COTA

[rotund kelp]

So Silverstone and Suzuka are power tracks because of the high speed corners which generate less downforce and solicit the engine more because you lift less ? Did I get that right ?

[civic fern]

No?

The track requires a specific amount of downforce

Which is a constant

Every car will run that constant optimal level of downforce. And the difference will be engine power

[rotund kelp]

So what’s the difference with Monaco and Hungary then ? Sorry just one more time and then if I don’t get it I’ll leave you alone 😂

[civic fern]

@rotund kelp The simplest way i guess is that the time gained in corners by running maximum downforce >> time lost in straights due to drag

[rotund kelp]

Ooohhhh now that makes a bit more sense, thank you !

[civic fern]

And for Silverstone/Suzuka, if you run max DF you lose too much time in the straights

So the DF level ran is somewhere in the middle

Which every car can achieve. Then it comes back down to engine power/aero efficiency

[rotund kelp]

So basically - I’m probably going to say a dummy thing again, BUT here goes

Downforce is what pushes you in the corner if you use it right but holds you back in straights ?

As in it becomes drag in straight

[civic fern]

Pretty much

At least in the current regulations

[rotund kelp]

Phew I feel smart right now 😂

Thanks a lot that really helped

[civic fern]

Cuz current F1 cars get DF from wings, and are surface area

And that creates more drag

[rotund kelp]

Which is what they are aiming to improve with the 2022 cars right ?

It’s supposed to have less drag isn’t it

[civic fern]

Not exactly

The point of the 2022 regulations is to lessen the impact of dirty air

And allow cars to follow much better

Basically wings generate downforce from the airflow

But as a car moves through the air, the flow behind the car is interrupted and turned into a turbulent wake

I.e. dirty air

The 2nd car going through that dirty air isn’t going to get as much downforce from that flow

Meaning it can’t follow the 1st car through a corner; it has to leave a gap

The 2022 regulations shift downforce dependence to the underbody, using ground effect and venturi tunnels

So there is a less dependence on wings, hence their designs could be simplified for a smaller wake

While cars themselves maintain a similar level of overall downforce as to now

The main reasons why they’re estimated to be several seconds slower is in the 18 inch wheels

Not the aerodynamics

[languid fractal]

What's up with the tires?

[civic fern]

18 inch wheels

i'm not that far into mechanical....dynamics

but its something to do with inertia of rotating rims, which are heavier than rubber/air

so the amount of energy it takes to slow down the rotation i.e. breaking is higher

which means bigger, heavier, more powerful brakes and different brake duct designs for cooling needs

but more importantly, the smaller sidewalls

basically the tires can't lean on the sidewall as much as the current tire because there's less of it

and results in lower cornering speeds

thats mainly where the lower lap times come from

[drowsy nacelle]

Traction effort

Will also impact acceleration

Higher inertia of rotating Rims should change the braking zones

Not sure about the cornering speed

Ofcourse it will change with all the new aero and all, but if those 18 inch wheels were used with 2021 package, then ^

[drowsy nacelle]

If it already takes you more time to brake, why do you want to corner at an even lower speed considering you have enough aero?

More time should be lost in the corners entering and exiting cause of lower TE and higher braking power required. Even the brakes can compensate to some extent, but loss in acceleration will be noticeable.

[coarse steeple]

plus weigh

[rotund kelp]

Cause if you don’t have enough downforce in a turn you go out basically right ?

[short ether]

Depends on the speed, at some point mechanical grip from the tyres is the main source of traction, like on your road car

[civic fern]

yeah the major loss in lap times (i believe 6 seconds around Barcelona, last i checked) comes from the wheel and sidewall changes over anything else

PU is going to be constant/better

aerodynamics is essentially a different way of getting the same result

[civic fern]

precisely

you'll just understeer off the track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e06bEuBOEG4

up close you'll just lose stability like that

[rotund kelp]

Ah yeah alright

[queen locust]

Shouldn't it be Sao Paolo GP instead of Brazilian GP?

[short ether]

yes

[queen locust]

FIA

[short ether]

you'd rather post this in #f1｜abu-dhabi-gp , unless you have questions about this case

[languid atlas]

yea if mercedes are found guilty what would the punishment for hamilton be?

[rotund kelp]

Pit lane start

[short ether]

i suppose all his times are invalid

[rotund kelp]

But we’re currently arguing if it would be applied to sprint or actual race

Either way it’s pretty bad

[languid atlas]

well it would make more sense to give the penalty during the sprint race

because quali determines the order for the sprint

[rotund kelp]

But he’d be disqualified from quali and sprint is quali

Penalties are never applied to qualifications which is what sprint is supposed to be despite it being called a race

[languid atlas]

good point

[rotund kelp]

How much you wanna bet stewards don’t know either and they’re currently fighting over this ? 💀

[civic fern]

or just do no penalty

[rotund kelp]

Yeah that too ofc. Hopefully

[civic fern]

Vettel straight up just pulled alongside and hit Hamilton in Baku 2017

he only got a 10 second

when normally that should've been black flag

[languid fractal]

Where can I get speed trap figures

[topaz kraken]

What happens if he’s cheating DSQ from quali ?

[rotund kelp]

Just scroll up my dude

We discussed this already 😊

[topaz kraken]

Ok sorry I didn’t see

[rotund kelp]

its ok im just telling you hehehe

[autumn berry]

.sessions

[paper wing]

Formula 1 Heineken Grande Prêmio De São Paulo 2021

Practice 1: <t:1636731000:f> - <t:1636731000:R>
Qualifying: <t:1636743600:f> - <t:1636743600:R>
Practice 2: <t:1636815600:f> - <t:1636815600:R>
Sprint Race: <t:1636831800:f> - <t:1636831800:R>
Race: <t:1636909200:f> - <t:1636909200:R>

All times shown in your local time

[dim bronze]

Cause general and the gp chat are filled

this video pretty clearly shows quite a lot of gap between the 85mm measure

and the wing when fully deflected using DRS

now I'm not engineer, but that's a very clear major gap

[queen locust]

To anyone wondering (I've seen a lot of people ask what they should be looking at) - look at the front right part of the wing (from the perspective of the camera). There's a disc with 85mm diameter and the DRS opening should not allow the disc to go through the flap but in this case for car #44, it goes through.

https://streamable.com/bxqp17 - Here's an AMR clip about how they check it

[limber sluice]

Thanks for this video. I was not aware what AMR did.
This does feel like ... Has anyone read about the oj Simpson case.. the curious case of the glove at his criminal trial... (Not f1 connected, but reminds me of that)

Or Cinderella... If the shoe fits... It's yours... If that wheel passed through... It's illegal

I'm going crazy ignore me...

[languid oasis]

I don't think that Max could single handedly disrupt the DRS mechanism to such an extent to make it illegal tho

Cause he didn't put any force in it

[dim bronze]

it's effectively open and shut in regards to the breach clearly

now it's in finding out how bad the breach was of the regulation

and due to the fact only the 44 car's rear wing assembly was impounded, the 77 may then be checked before FP2 running

[topaz kraken]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8VdBpCM/ I don’t think that changes it be would have to be quite strong

[queen locust]

How many lap records does Valtteri have? Seems like everywhere we go Valtteri has the fastest lap.

[short ether]

19

[rich gust]

Whats article 3.6.3?

[short ether]

Mid Chassis
Bodywork declared as “Mid Chassis” must lie within RV-CH-MID.

in the regs it's defined what is this "RV-CH-MID" but it's complicated. just words

[rich gust]

damn

imagine using a lot of words to mean something relatively simple

[short ether]

i can clearly imagine ye

[rich gust]

like do the people who write the regs have to hit a minimum word count or something? xDD

[short ether]

wait, i might have read the technical regs for next year

anyway: they're pinned here

[rotund kelp]

I guess you gotta be specific when you deal with multi million dollars company with teeth so long they put dents in the floor

[queen locust]

[limber sluice]

ah no of not a chance

lol

[limber sluice]

it usually is yes. i think lewis would be disqualified from quali... coz that usually happens. a pit lane start maybe. coz theyll need to put in a new wing

[limber sluice]

he does need a sledgehammer... or a chainsaw

[languid oasis]

Did you not see the invisible sledgehammer he used🙄

[limber sluice]

ah like the old days...

we have corrupted my favourite channel enough for one day

[languid oasis]

#f1｜fantasy-games is clear hth

[short ether]

How do you guys think drs will work for the 2022 car? I Believe the concept doesn't include the drs system

[cursive wraith]

The actual 2022 cars will include drs afaik

[short ether]

Yes i know but they said the concept doesn't include the drs

Can't imagine how it would look like, the concept looks really flat

[cursive wraith]

Ross brawn said that 2022 cars will have drs but he hopes to get rid of it soon in the future

[cursive wraith]

Key word: Concept

[short ether]

Oh thanks for clearing that up

[vocal valley]

why did they ban engine modes

like last year i think

[glass wedge]

They didn't ban engine modes, the rule is that you have to keep the same power mode from the moment you leave the garage during Q1.
The rule was implemented so the top teams couldn't pull away and make a gap at the start of a race and then switch their engines to preservation mode

[rich gust]

interesting

so basically the wing opens wider at the outer section

[topaz kraken]

Is he not allowed to race sprint or still on pole for that?

[rotund kelp]

he's starting from the pit lane and whatever position he finishes in is added 5 to determine his position on the grid tomorrow

[topaz kraken]

So not really a penalty

[rich gust]

hes last

then whichever position he ends up in he gets +5 to it

[blazing saffron]

how is DRS even going to work if the rear wing is going to be like that

[rich gust]

It wont be like that, simple

[rich gust]

OI have a qn

WHY IS THE RB FUCKING SLOW

[short ether]

It doesn't look very slow to me

[rich gust]

Then why couldnt it overtake the Ferrari

Max was stuck behind Bottas for the same issue

[languid fractal]

Max could overtake the Ferrari, but the Mercedes is just faster on the straight

[rich gust]

why

[languid fractal]

Which part are you asking?

[rich gust]

Why's the Honda pu slow

[languid fractal]

Honestly i dont know about that, but the merc engine has always been the best engine

Also I could be wrong but the rb has like more drag than the merc because of the high rake

[topaz kraken]

Was a huge pen.

[short ether]

can you read the channel topic one more time please

[rich gust]

no

cuz Im not feeling it

[steel lily]

Doesn't matter

Even if you don't want to you have to follow the rules

[rich gust]

It was literally my only comment that was not about in depth discussion

[granite tundra]

are you a simpleton

[rich gust]

Between the bad food I ate and the disappointment about the lack of relative pace that the RB has at this track it’s caused me to feel not the best

[rich gust]

I don’t know but wouldn’t it be wise to take an engine penalty rn

[languid fractal]

would they be able to cut through the field like merc?

[rich gust]

That’s my fear, we don’t know how much a fresh engine can actually deliver for RB vs the Merc

The last time Max had a new engine was in Russia

And he was stuck mostly

But that’s been a hard track to overtake on anyway

One crumb of comfort I can take from this is that we’ve not seen the RB on soft tyres during actual race pace yet

[languid fractal]

yea

[rich gust]

They could go faster theoretically

[languid fractal]

well not sure people will use softs tomorrow, listening at interviews, people chose softs cause of the cooler temps

[civic fern]

i would agree for every other year except this one

the Merc is basically the 2019 Ferrari at this point

great in straight lines

the difference between this year's Merc and the 2019 Ferrari is that while the SF90 fundamentally could not generate the necessary downforce, the W12 actually can but it comes with a massive drag penalty

[languid fractal]

Oh i see

I'm still confused tho

[languid fractal]

Don't they still have an advantage over the rb even after that

In straight speed I mean

[little veldt]

Well yeah the merc engine has been good for a while

The aero on the red bulls has also fundamentally been better but the only issue with the red bulls was a 💩 engine

Unreliable and underwhelming in performance

[ember herald]

renault engine in 2018

[copper mason]

Speed Trap data

[manic idol]

Is there a comparison of each driver’s unique styles anywhere. I’ve seen the Reddit thread about the Hungarian commentator comparing them but I’m looking for something more statistical

[cursive wraith]

Mazepin

[past blade]

theres a video from 2006 or 2007 which is martin brundle trying recreate drivers driving styles which i can link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOhgI1hQA68

but thats about it

[queen locust]

When was the last time that the SC trail went through the pits?

[vocal valley]

maybe the entire secondary panel is gonna flap downward

[plain pelican]

On the next race do they use a new chassis and are able to transfer the power unit itself?

[rich gust]

Ok theres no way

Suspected it as soon as the sprint race started

It wasnt a tyre advantage yet the Merc had the pace like it was on one

Max only had 3 lap older tyres yet the Merc breezed past him as if he only did a 1 stop

[rich gust]

Breezes past through max like if he had a pitstop tyre advantage. This is way more than just having the best engine now because it’s unreal.

The last time he had a new engine he didn’t slice through the field as easily as he did

Really feel like RB shouldve considered a new engine because they seem to be on the back foot now

[rotund kelp]

i think i read an article that said they unleashed the full power of the engine because with 4 races to go they dont have to manage wear as opposed to before

[queen locust]

Hi

[rich gust]

Interesting that no other teams decided to take an engine penalty this race

[civic fern]

what happened to Bottas jesus christ

[unreal delta]

https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/qtr5m2/lewis_steering_wheel_moves_a_bit_like_das_style/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Hmm

[rotund kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/bill-hader-watching-eating-popcorn-oh-yeah-watchin-gif-8938478

Waiting for y’all’s opinions like 👆🏻

[unreal delta]

Me too

I was sent the video

I was like, hmm this needs to be discussed

[rotund kelp]

Same I’m like let’s see what the guys on discord think hehehe

(No pressure though)

[unreal delta]

Because I what I'm seeing is movement of the steering column moving back

[paper wing]

Congrats @unreal delta, you're now on lap 10

[unreal delta]

Into its original state

[unreal quarry]

The technical regs for 22

I don’t see it

Happening

[little veldt]

Just the camera mount shifting

If you look at previous pole laps of him and max and other drivers

You can see slight movement of the steering wheel and it looks like DAS

[autumn pawn]

[tawny spindle]

whats the bigges payment a driver has ever gotten for a single season?

[sly aspen]

If you count endorsements Forbes says Hamilton made $82 mil last season (2020). Edging out Schumacher who made $80 mil in 2004

[languid fractal]

Here is a question I have. I'm fairly new to f1 so i wasn't around for the whole engine saga with Ferrari.

What I don't understand is why Ferrari lost so much power in 2020, if they started cheating in summer 2019, couldn't they just go back to a 2019 pre summer spec?

[little veldt]

Aero was as efficient as a potato

The aero efficiency was terrible and the Alfa romeos were significantly faster than the Ferrari in a straight line last year

[languid fractal]

🤔 does that mean the pu power is still there?

[little veldt]

No they had to remove the illegal shenanigans in the engine

[languid fractal]

I see but couldn't they just go back to their pre summer break engine?

[little veldt]

That was illegal

They slowly upped the usage of the oil when the sensors were on and made it too powerful that people got suspicious

Summer break is a full break people don’t do any RnD

Teams use it to let the employees take a break

[languid fractal]

Oh so they were basically cheating the whole year then @little veldt

[rotund kelp]

they probably still are we just dont know it lmao

I'm convinced everyone has little tricks here and there

[languid fractal]

Ah I see😅

Wolf did say there are some illegal cars in the grid

[rotund kelp]

amongst which are his own so he would know 💀

[languid fractal]

Lol

[tawny spindle]

i know mercedes offered 136 million for one season to Rosberg but he refused

so if he accepted that he would be the best paid driver ever

apparently

[cursive wraith]

Let me guess you watched that absolute shit YouTube video

No one in their right mind would offer 136 million

It was click bait at its finest

[tawny spindle]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/formula-one/former-f1-champion-nico-rosberg-reveals-he-walked-away-from-a-136-million-contract/news-story/5f5a12b4bdcd347f00332fe259e897a6

idk if thats reliable source

[short ether]

Ah 136M australian dollars

[topaz kraken]

It’s true

[zenith pumice]

that's 87,643,840 euro

[tawny spindle]

dyamn

its not as much as i thought ig

still would be more than hamilton has gotten for a season

[civic fern]

Thats absolute horse shit

Ferrari’s entire budget is 450 mil and thats considered mega

Imagine dumping a third of that for one driver

[tawny spindle]

i mean

mercedes probably got more money than ferrari nowdays

and its rosberg

the guy can beat hamilton in equal cars

prime hamilton btw

[little veldt]

That isn't 136m for one season btw

It was meant to be what for 3 years? So its about 45mil a season

45mil australian is 25 mil pounds and mercedes' budget in 2017 was 300 million pounds

Not very horseshit

[civic fern]

If you read the message I replied to, he did say one season

[celest cypress]

what does this littile thing do

[tawny spindle]

i cant tell what it is by this pic

[mild rose]

Endplate on the front or rear wing, I think

[topaz kraken]

Makes car go zooooom idk can’t tell what it is

[feral vessel]

I suppose that's the area where the tail light is

[feral vessel]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CV-Yl40N8Mx/ (was about to forget the main source sorry)

[grizzled snow]

Hey, i was looking into a Ferrari f 310 replica that i have and i notice this part that i think is for aero but i don't now what it does or for what reason so if anyone knows. sorry for the rough English i'm from Argentina

[feral vessel]

those are called the bargeboards, and it is sed to guide turbulent air from the front wing wake, away from the vital airflow underneath the car.

and yes, they are an Aerodynamic device to answer to your question.

[grizzled snow]

thanks this was getting me crazy

[civic fern]

Hmmm if there was a way to design the wings so that the separation at trailing edge is lessened

Immediate drag reduction

More importantly, turbulent dirty air reduction

[languid fractal]

Question: since the Ferrari upgraded its PU, is it possible for them to perform better at high speed corners.

I read somewhere, they can now put on more downforre on the without losing loads of speed.

[rich gust]

Just a thought

What if DRS was implemented in a way like how KERS was. A limited amount of seconds each lap which resets once you start a new lap.

[sly aspen]

Idk how much it would change anything unless you really limit how many seconds you have.

Also would make overtaking even harder with all the dirty air

[rotund kelp]

Are they still getting DRS with the 2022 cars ? I mean they’re supposed to allow closer racing so wouldn’t that make DRS redundant now ?

[sly aspen]

Yeah there’s drs