programmers-off-topic

[cinder karma]

I think 8 was the first windows version I seriously used

Now guess my age lol

[subtle totem]

yap

I used win 3.1

[cinder karma]

I recall putting the win7 menu on win8

[subtle totem]

with that crazy floppy disk

bzzzbzbzbz

[ivory shadow]

Back when floppy disks were actually floppy

[subtle totem]

https://tenor.com/view/andteam-andteam-taki-andteam-taki-funny-andteam-taki-floppy-disk-andteam-taki-confused-gif-12442265695336897442

[ivory shadow]

Yeah. There were a few different apps that did that. I used one when I had 8.

[ivory shadow]

Oh wow someone 3d printed a save icon /s

[subtle totem]

them zip 1/7 disk on winzip LUL

[cinder karma]

That was also when someone like

Peer pressure me into the Linux cult

So

I'm lucky

[crystal wren]

I jumped onto 11 the day it became generally available, and it really was actually great for me then. But in the years since, it's just... become unusably bad.

[subtle totem]

1st time on linux was fedora 9

[crystal wren]

I think my first was Mandrake?

Not even Mandriva, Mandrake.

[cinder karma]

I use 11 at work

[subtle totem]

yes

[cinder karma]

(Barely)

[ivory shadow]

I never tried 11 since they rewrote the taskbar and left out like every customization I care about

[subtle totem]

mandrake

[cinder karma]

My windows machine is an glorified ssh terminal

[ivory shadow]

Anyways, my Windows usage is likely to die with 10.

[crystal wren]

Come to Arch. It's actually nice here.

[ivory shadow]

Modern Linux is snazzy, runs every game I care about, and KDE is so damn nice

[subtle totem]

Mandrake 7 GPL

linux is boring this days

[worn remnant]

the first time i encountered linux was some time in the 90s, when a friend of mine showed me Slackware running on his PC. i didn't really understand what i was looking at

[subtle totem]

old school times

[ivory shadow]

I once installed debian via floppy disk

Those were the days

[subtle totem]

and played doom with floppy's LUL

[crystal wren]

I was a Slackware guy after Mandrake!

[cinder karma]

Oh man

I got to linux just after ubuntu became too big for a cd

I remember being sad

Then my very next computer just didn't have a cd drive

(I still have that computer)

[subtle totem]

well ubuntu u could run/just boot with pen driver over windows wintou install i lvoed so much that

[uncut seal]

that's how they get you

[crystal wren]

How they get me to leave for good? Seems like a strange plan for them, but it worked!

[uncut seal]

> release decent new product
> make upgrade basically mandatory
> make product shitty

oh btw

DELTARUNE TOMORROW

[cinder karma]

What is deltarune

[vestal hull]

Toby Fox game, creator of Undertale.

[fleet wren]

atra's next question will be "What's Undertale"

[vestal hull]

Wish that were me...

[fleet wren]

the answer is "That game Pope Francis was gifted before he died"

[fleet wren]

ahh, I remember that time, all the discussions and concessions around 700MB

[subtle totem]

yes, old good times

[fleet wren]

back when you'd get laughed out of the room if you design a laptop without a CD drive

[subtle totem]

ahahahah

[fleet wren]

now you'd get laughed out if you design one with one

[subtle totem]

no mention taht laptops with small ball for mouse

[cinder karma]

Actually yes

What is undertale

[fleet wren]

see my extreme useful and informative answer above

[cinder karma]

You don't have to tell me

I have socks to knit

Sock world championships socks have dropped and 2 out of 3 look super awesome

[uncut seal]

my first try at Linux was when I got my current laptop about 6 years ago, but my father and myself couldn't manage to set it up for games (NVidia 💀) so we installed Windows. Then, about 3 years ago, my friends from the engineering school's algorithm club installed a fedora dual boot, I learned to use it, ditched windows for space, and now I'm not letting it touch any of my personal computers.

oh, and I switched to Nobara last year because Fedora somehow borke my driver setup on each update.

[subtle totem]

U got luck..on Xp era if u install win 1st them linux the MS all the time missing my daul boot

[uncut seal]

That still happens with Win10, it did fuck up my dual boot more than once (just had to set boot priority again in BIOS, but still)

[uncut seal]

I forgot the best part: we had trouble installing a dual boot 3 years ago because my father and I somehow managed to set a BIOS password without taking note of it. So I had to use a website to figure out the recovery password from the recovery key the laptop gave me (it's supposed to be encrypted so you have to call tech support, but the key -> password algorithm was reverse-engineered for a lot of machines, so it's still recoverable)

[subtle totem]

well baterry take off 30 min LUL

[crystal wren]

Undertale is a game where all of the dialogue is one humongous switch statement per map.

(Spoiler technically... but really.)

[thin estuary]

kinda hard to do better in GM, where your data structures are very limited

[uncut seal]

why the hell did you use this part as an example?

[crystal wren]

I was at the mercy of the screenshots available.

[uncut seal]

anyway, the rules say "A finished game is better than a clean game"

and I've seen the horrors of the SV code, it's not perfect either

[crystal wren]

Oh, it's bad.

And it was a smart choice.

I'll always maintain that.

[thin estuary]

clean code to start with lets you actually get to the point of finishing the game, but there comes a point where it's no longer worth it

[subtle totem]

is that .../ a break line code?

[uncut seal]

I think just / is, ... are just part of the dialogue

[subtle totem]

I see

[terse galleon]

deltarune tomorrow?? how did i miss this omg

[uncut seal]

it releases in about 20 hours for me on Steam

gotta go get my 3 hours of slepp now, bye

[terse galleon]

good night

[dusty pollen]

is it finally the full game? or another chapter? I haven't kept up with deltarune since the demo haha

[crystal wren]

I haven't even played Undertale!

I just absorbed everything about it via YouTube and osmosis... and I'm waiting for all of Deltarune before I play that.

[devout vault]

Shoutout to the first devices that could sorta do computation being looms (if I remember right)

[crystal wren]

Gotta weave that RAM.

[dusty pollen]

yup! but it actually goes way beyond that

[red crest]

(2 more chapters)

[devout vault]

I've seen games like this (Lets Build a Zoo comes to mind) but hard to say if it's got some sort of automated texture packing doing it as part of the build process instead of that being development time too

[crystal wren]

Oh, damn, it was ROM, not RAM.

http://www.righto.com/2019/07/software-woven-into-wire-core-rope-and.html

[dusty pollen]

from my understanding as someone who is very much not a historian, "computer" and "calculator" used to be somewhat equivalent terms for a type of secretarial work (therefore done almost entirely by women who happened to be educated but not wealthy) in which they did the many calculations required by businesses etc (adding up all the income from a list of transactions, you get the gist) by hand before there was a way to do it via machine. When computers were first introduced (skipping Ada Lovelace but let's not forget her either), there was a belief that the "important" part was the "more masculine" hardware, whereas software was seen as a continuation of this work. It changed very quickly but women were very much programming first.

You can still see evidence of this kind of thought pattern in things like the codebreakers of Bletchley Park being entirely women other than Alan Turing, and if you look back at various big development milestones, there are always women there, including the moon landing, whose lead developer was a woman (who seems to have somewhat invented event loop programming while she was at it? and also is one of the people credited with coining the term "software engineer")

[devout vault]

I found out the other day that GM has structs now. I was baffled

[crystal wren]

They've had those for a... while now.

[dusty pollen]

when you think about it, isn't all weaving a type of ROM?

[crystal wren]

It was a huge addition when it happened.

[devout vault]

I haven't used Game Maker since GM7, so not having it before is a bit of a wide range

[dusty pollen]

but yeah, programmable computers are themselves direct descendents of industrial jacquard looms, which would have also been operated by women iirc

[crystal wren]

The Apollo ones were exclusively, I think.

[crystal wren]

Well the interface got weird since then. That's the biggest change!

[dusty pollen]

jacquard = any fabric in which different colour yarn/thread is used when weaving/making the fabric (rather than making the fabric and THEN dyeing it)

[devout vault]

I didn't realize this about the codebreaker team, that's cool! I guess that means an extra layer to this is that the only guy on the team wasn't straight.

Nobody involved in that pivotal part of history fits the patriarchy's ideal 😂

[dusty pollen]

exclusively operated by women? sorry, brain melt moment haha

[crystal wren]

Woven by, sorry! At least if I was informed correctly when I remember learning this!

[dusty pollen]

(there's a reason women got the right to vote in the UK in 1918! women basically operated everything in the UK during ww1)

(and this continued in ww2 for things like Bletchley Park haha)

[devout vault]

Oh, really?

With a sample size of 2, I am now confident enough to make this authoratative meme:
<"men vs women" meme, where the men make things like blockchain and generative AI, and women do things like critical descryption tasks and the literal moon landing>

(Obvious disclaimer this is a hugely sarcastic meme and I don't actually believe men or women are inherently better than the other)

[dusty pollen]

ngl part of the reason people don't realise how involved women were in computing is that they don't realise that working class women always worked

[devout vault]

You know, that actually makes sense since most all the men probably got drafted

[crystal wren]

We both know that superiority would be irrelevant when cats exist anyway, given their superiority would dwarf any other. /j

[dusty pollen]

the long awaited sequel to that one infamous Google memo

[devout vault]

I mean, true, but if cats ruled things in an obvious way dog people would go feral. There's a reason they work in the shadows

[devout vault]

I don't think I've heard of this

Also, y'all have distracted me for the real reason I came to this channel: to post my dumb idea of the hour.

Guess I should actually type that up

[crystal wren]

[dusty pollen]

it's a fascinating one

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Chamber

the AI summary is pretty accurate in this case from how I remember it

[devout vault]

Oh, wow.

It's like those people who think "men" (ie. trans women) have a biological advantage at... chess

[dusty pollen]

he is indeed one of those people

[crystal wren]

The biggest problem with thinking about nature vs nurture considerations is when the nurture is literally ingrained into someone from day zero based on one physical characteristic.

[dusty pollen]

according to him, women are good for social things and art and are neurotic

[devout vault]

It baffles me when TERFs go along with that because, like... saying "men" are better at intellectual things is not the flex they seem to think it is

[crystal wren]

Makes it effectively impossible to try to study what's what.

[dusty pollen]

also that with any division of 50% of the population, even if there are differences in the "average" skills, the overlap between the possible values for both groups would still mean that it doesn't matter for the vast majority of people

[devout vault]

I had a thought about this recently. I wonder how many nature vs nurture studies treat "equivalent nurture" properly.

Basically, which one of these do they follow.

[dusty pollen]

the thing terfs don't want you to know is that they aren't actually feminists, they just suck

[crystal wren]

...I am now realising that this subject might be getting into the territory of things that would probably be bapped down in other channels.

[safe dragon]

so how about [controversial topic]

[dusty pollen]

just look the other way, dh /j

[crystal wren]

To Krobus instead! /j

[devout vault]

Dumb idea of the hour: Encryption method for text that works on a word basis rather than a character basis.

Instead of making binary nonsense as output, you get more text that is just nonsensical.

It's important to make sure it still make sense grammatically, though. Consider the following:

• Your spy tells you how to intercept the enemy's secret messages.
• You build whatever is necessary to get the signals and turn it into a file or whatever.
• The first message you see is "a truck-sized bee ate my pudding after stealing the Mona Lisa and selling it to their miniature gopher friend".

Now, which seems more likely (in a world where this type of encryption isn't known to exist):

• They invented this very weird encryption method.
• The enemy knows about your spy and is literally trolling you.

Bonus points if the text-based encryption is behind a "normal" layer of encryption, to sell the trick better.

[rain apex]

Ancedontally i feel there is high correlation of trans and good at coding so when i get a billion dollar VC fund I'll hire a team of 13 beautiful 🏳️‍⚧️

[crystal wren]

And the joke that furries keep the Internet alive is like... 5% a joke from my understanding.

[rain apex]

Furries are the VC who gave me the billion dollar angel investment

[cyan shadow]

oooogh

[crystal wren]

(Also, I love this.)

[lethal walrus]

Why specifically 13 and why only after a billion from VC

[rain apex]

furry comm prices get crazy

[rain apex]

It's written on the dead sea scrolls

[devout vault]

Also 13 is a prime number

Which makes it lucky, or something

[devout vault]

I forgot a very important question.

Does the company merch that you give new hires and also at events include programming socks

[rain apex]

No but we shall hold monthly knitting workshops where you can knit your own programming socks

[lethal walrus]

Does the company health insurance cover hrt

[devout vault]

You know, I've never heard of knitted programming socks

[devout vault]

Other gender affirming care too, like top or bottom surgery, should be included

[lethal walrus]

That is true

[rain apex]

(the original joke is from a frequently bought together entry so it's not hand knit)

I have no idea how hard it'd be to knit thigh high socks actually, challenging for beginner perhaps

[devout vault]

RIP

How about we ask our resident knitting expert

[crystal wren]

Paging Atra...

[devout vault]

@cinder karma Your knowledge is required

Wouldn't it be the same as a normal sock but you just make the ring longer

And perhaps get slightly larger depending on the person it's for

[crystal wren]

That's why I would never ask for a handmade hat for a gift. I don't want to cause that much material costs.

[devout vault]

I'm aware of that, I thought you meant the knitting part came from bought together, which I haven't heard before

I'm pretty sure my programming predates the invention of programming socks

[rain apex]

It's a team building exercise you see

[rain apex]

Goes back to the ancedontal high correlation between trans and good spaget, i always wondered if there's actual studies on this

[devout vault]

I think I even remember when it first started popping up on r/ProgrammingHumor

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/ProgrammingHumor

[dusty pollen]

I believe knitted thigh high socks would require you to either knit with elastic yarn or do the historical thing and use suspenders

[devout vault]

Or genetically modify yourself so your legs make yarn stick to you easily

(Or just have hairy legs that will do that for you I guess)

[dusty pollen]

look, old ad!

[rain apex]

Programming garter socks

[devout vault]

Old ads were definitely better, if only because they weren't animated eyesores that took up half the area where content should be

(I say this as someone who doesn't remember ads beyond, like, tv commercials and websites)

Suddenly remembering a website I haven't thought about in ages (codejunkies - clearly, using Action Replay in ye olde days was the ancient precursor to game modding)

[cyan shadow]

Newspaper ads back home were always so hideous, it never made me want to buy anything

Especially that one jewellery store with the grovelly ads that I really hated

[devout vault]

The same could be said nowadays for modern ads (for me)

[cyan shadow]

Yes yes you don't have any making charges very good now shut up

[cyan shadow]

(These are 21st century ads, very ugly 0/10)

[devout vault]

Wait a second, codejunkies is still a thing??

(Well, it looks like they mainly just sell stuff now. What a surprise. /s (They do have a page with codes but there are 10 entries, all pokemon black/white versions, and search for other games literally does nothing))

<flashbacks to entering long codes into the interface character by character using the onscreen keyboard, and then having to start over because the game didn't work after messing up a single character>

[crystal wren]

https://wiki.gamehacking.org/Xploder_(PlayStation) was that kind of device I remember the most.

[devout vault]

Ah, but you see, my family was a nintendo family

With a sprinkle of xbox some times, but like 90% nintendo

[crystal wren]

I also just learned that the company who made this is UK based... maybe it never got to America?

[pliant snow]

We had GameGenie, GameShark, ActionReplay

[crystal wren]

The Game Genie, now that's the first one I think I ever had.

[devout vault]

We might've had the older variants too but I barely remember any gaming stuff pre-Gamecube

Besides like a single frame of a few different games (mainly N64)

I never could wrap my mind around Wetrix

Then there were weird games like Buck Bumble and Iggy's Reckin' Balls

In googling the latter I'm discovering the Japanese version had a lot of artwork redone... this is even more bizarre than the changes making Angry American Kirby.

They feel like two different independent teams were given the same game design document to base different games on

[devout vault]

I almost posted exactly that

[rain apex]

To be honest I'm not sure if either is good

[devout vault]

(With a cheeky message like "tag yourself", or the "you vs vs the person they tell you not to worry about" meme... which kinda has bad vibes now that I think about it)

[cinder karma]

It's not hard it's just tedious

[fleet wren]

interesting, in lieu of the main character having an angry face, the US version has an background character be angry instead

[devout vault]

I mean I'm not sure anyone nowadays would say N64 graphics were good.

At the time, however... welll...

[rain apex]

Bone rattling graphics

[devout vault]

I thought that at first too, but you can actually see distraught yellow guy on one of the platforms in the US version. Angry red dude in the western background just isn't present in japan at all

[cinder karma]

@rain apex I expect sexy hand knit programmer socks from you by Wednesday

[rain apex]

I'm allergic to wool

[devout vault]

I'm sure there's non-wool yarn

[cinder karma]

There is but it's not as good

[lethal walrus]

is it bad i have a server exposed to the elements of my mediocre code that has 900 days of uptime

[rain apex]

no it means you are enterprising

[uncut seal]

pretty good "fell out of bounds" message from Blue Prince:

for context, this screen usually says "Call it a day"

[safe dragon]

crazy how I recognized this as blue prince at a glance despite just being text and me not having actually played the game

don't even know why

the font?

[cursive sigil]

Wait this is what it says if you run out of steps? I never noticed it's not "call it a day" in this situation

I'm also really curious how far other people got

[uncut seal]

No, it's if you fall out of bounds

[cursive sigil]

ohhhh ok that makes sense that i didn't notice then

[uncut seal]

It happened to me because the game refused to load [redacted], and I fell when I tried to force load it by walking into it

[cursive sigil]

how did you manage to fall out of bounds?

just spoiler it and tell me

[uncut seal]

||I was going in and out of the basement from different entry points (the cliff and the foundation), and at some point the game refused to load it when I came from the cliff||

[cursive sigil]

lol, weird i never had any issues with that but i'll be careful about it now that i know it can happen

[uncut seal]

just don't walk into a sky void and you shouldn't have any issue

[cursive sigil]

i'll do my best

[dusty pollen]

I should play that

[supple ether]

I love it when games do something fun with edge cases.

Outer Wilds has ||a black hole / white hole setup that sends things back in time about half a second. If you remove the entry after the object comes out of the exit but before it goes in the entry,|| you get a game over credits sequence with a kazoo cover of the credits theme.

[pliant snow]

lol do you? idk if i ever did that

[uncut seal]

If you loved Outer Wilds, you'll probably love Blue Prince. Indie games are so good

[supple ether]

I want to play blue prince, I'm just waiting for a bigger sale

I might get it anyways, it's just that $30 is a bit much

[crystal wren]

https://isthereanydeal.com/game/blue-prince/info/

Always a good place to check! I believe they only ever list known good stores.

[dusty pollen]

awww this is cute. ignored

[fleet wren]

are you a potato gamer

[dusty pollen]

I have several potatoes I play games on

a desktop potato, some laptop potatoes

this is the relatively better desktop potato

the laptop potatoes can't handle windows

[fleet wren]

well deltarune is out and definitely more potato friendly

[dusty pollen]

everything is potato friendly if you lower you standards enough

[slender badge]

^^

[cinder karma]

I don't have 16gb of ram

Nor do I want to spend $30

[cursive sigil]

i'm judging you for it

[supple ether]

I have augmented steam which shows past and current discounts on the steam page

[supple ether]

> 1060 required
somehow I doubt that

16 isn't unreasonable, windows by itself takes like 4-6gb these days

[crystal wren]

Ooh! I didn't know this was a thing.

[lethal walrus]

boring gambling get a better domain

[crystal wren]

Speed.

[marble jewel]

Ah man, I didn't click it in time

[lethal walrus]

also i really thought bouncer smites you if you say everyone even if it's in a code block

[crystal wren]

No money for you. /j

[lethal walrus]

weirdly old account, 2017

those aren't cheap either so probably was hacked

[crystal wren]

(Thanks for the report, though!)

[devout vault]

Super serious scientific study idea: What percent of happiness/joy/etc. do cat lovers get watching a video of a cat enjoying being petted, vs doing it themselves.

Brought to you by me watching this video and enjoying it way more than you might think considering I'm not petting the cat myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB-w0HWNvk8

[crystal wren]

I'd say close to the same, but I also can opt to feel what I'm seeing someone feel more or less... so I can kinda stimulate actually doing the petting...

[devout vault]

I guess it'd depend on whether you get more joy from petting them, or from them enjoying your pets.

Assuming it was even lopsided at all to begin with

[crystal wren]

That's a 25% for me there, I think... them enjoying it's the best part.

[rain apex]

I am cloud cat enjoyer and for most part i just like looking at cats moving around

[sand frost]

I feel like I get a lot of enjoyment out of seeing internet cats and none of the downsides of owning cats

Having a friend own a cat is the true ideal

Particularly a friend who likes inviting you over

[devout vault]

....there are downsides?

Okay, I guess cleaning litterboxes is a thing

[safe dragon]

there's also the same downside practically all pets have and that's that it requires you to find someone or some place that can take care of them for you when you're away

cats can at least go a weekend though so it's better than it could be like with dogs

[devout vault]

Just do a dark ritual binding them to your soul, so that they can retreat into your soul when you leave and pop back out when you get back.

There's other benefits too, like extending their lifespan to match yours! Can you tell I've thought about this before

[safe dragon]

I'm afraid I'm not very experienced in dark rituals

[sand frost]

Clearly i should have gotten a PhD in something else

Instead of metal 3D printing

[devout vault]

Well, like normal pet ownership, there's things you need to learn before you can do it safely. Just take dark rituals 101 and 102 and you're good to go

[sand frost]

The travel downside is a big part, plus I’m allergic to cats

[devout vault]

So am I, but I'm not a coward

[sand frost]

Hahaha

I still pet them!!!

[devout vault]

Zyrtec every day is a small price to pay

[cinder karma]

Classical Mathperson I think has similar issues as I do about pet ownership

Namely, the work hours thing

One day I'll have a farm

[devout vault]

You don't think your circuitry job would let you have an in-office cat????????

I don't understand, what possible downsides could there be

[fleet wren]

cats may uplift themselves and conquer the world?

[rain apex]

Cats need to understand OSHA first

[devout vault]

Cats would learn osha just so they could deliberately flaunt violations

You don't think them pushing things off tables is accidental, do you?

[devout vault]

I wouldn't be opposed at this point

[dusty pollen]

I see we're using legal names now, AppliedMathPerson

[devout vault]

Discord names are too easy to change to be considered legal names (speaking from experience)

[dusty pollen]

don't blame me, atra started it

[cinder karma]

What did I start

[devout vault]

But you're the one who called them legal names

[lethal walrus]

If there are legal names there must also be illegal names. And names which exist in a grey area of legality

[devout vault]

A classic example of a probably illegal name for the modern age is little bobby tables

Or at least in the grey area

[sand frost]

I told my coworker she should bring her cat to work but she said no bc it has FIV 😦

She’s lobbying me to get a dog

And bring the dog to work

[cinder karma]

One of the biology grad students had a golden retriever

God such a cute doggo

[devout vault]

Yet another example of how lobbying does not work for the public interest (/s.... partially)

[cinder karma]

Smh

[cinder karma]

Classical mathperson, I will appreciate dog picturwws

How are you?

[sand frost]

I am doing alright! But almost certainly not getting a dog

Finishing the wedding dress was a big relief

Lots of research pressures but I feel like I’ve gotten my students on a path to doing good work while I’m gone

[cinder karma]

Enjoy your honeymoon!!!!!

[sand frost]

Not for a while! Right now is just wedding prep

But doing that plus research makes me want a nap so much of the time

[devout vault]

This was a fun watch and totally not because I've thought about doing basically this exact thing but for a phone. (Also stardew jumpscare)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJccc3qpPh0

...I did not notice when I first watched it that stardew was literally in the thumbnail

Also it seems like a good use case for the mythical tiled window managers that I've never tried

[devout vault]

(The followup video replaces the (admittedly really bad from the looks of it) keyboard with a touchscreen 😭 )

[dusty pollen]

hey since this is netherlands-off-topic, I demand an explanation for this video

https://youtube.com/shorts/MfV1xxfS3V0

[safe dragon]

what is there to explain

a geese parade held in the town of Valkenburg for special occasions

[dusty pollen]

for starters, when are they visiting London

[safe dragon]

I'm afraid you'll have to go to valkenburg

[dusty pollen]

what's the point of this

it isn't actionable

why are you giving me popups for nonsense

[crystal wren]

The action to take is to upgrade, of course. /j

Alternatively, just Linux.

[safe dragon]

upgrade... to Linux

[sage canopy]

Tried that once, 21 years ago. And guess what. Linux gave me a bluescreen

(Ubuntu decided that my graphics card driver wasn't worth keeping and apparently the error screen for that is blue with an error message with encoding-issues)

Nowadays, I have to deal with Unix on the mainframe, it's IBM's version embedded into z/OS

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with peripherals there

[cyan shadow]

Ohhh it's in Valkenburg, I've always wondered where this was

[dusty pollen]

I'm going to blow your mind

Linux has changed in the past 21 years /lh

(but linux peripheral support has improved a lot, there's even touchscreen support now)

[dusty pollen]

but I cba to game on linux rn so my pc is staying windows for now and my laptops are on arch

[crystal wren]

Unless you play multiplayer things with anti-cheat... things are genuinely better in a whole bunch of cases right now!

[sage canopy]

Does SDV run on linux?

[crystal wren]

There's a native Linux version, yeah.

[sage canopy]

I have only games installed on my laptop these days, an ancient game that was created for windows 95, and SDV

[dusty pollen]

stardew is one of the few games I've played on linux

[sage canopy]

hm okay 📝 takes notes

[dusty pollen]

I know, I just can't be bothered I once got the Sims 4 to work on linux

-# don't ask questions ok

[sage canopy]

Do I still need to wait for someone to shovel the newest firefox version into a repository before I can update it?

[dusty pollen]

that's a hell of a question, it depends? it was never strictly necessary, you always had the option of installing it from source

[crystal wren]

That kind of problem's always been (and always will be) a problem with non-rolling-release distros.

[cinder karma]

Stardew is the only game I've played on linux

If you don't count the likes of sudoku and cookie clicker

[sage canopy]

Well, let's just say my google-fu was bad back then and all the sites where people were talking about Ubuntu more or less had oodles of pages saying "Works for me, I don't have your problem"

[dusty pollen]

and there are several distros that have more flexible methods for installing things like this

[crystal wren]

Arch's packages are very fast to update to new versions, for example.

And yeah, Ubuntu is... not a particularly up to date distro software versions wise.

[dusty pollen]

and arch also has packages which automatically update in some cases in the aur

[sage canopy]

I was told to start with something userfriendly and was referred to ubuntu 🤷

[dusty pollen]

isn't stardew basically the only game you've played, hands down

[sage canopy]

I was also told that I'd never get bluescreens on Linux - which it proved wrong 🤣

[cinder karma]

I've never gotten a bluescreen on Linux ||the ubuntu error screen is purple||

[rain apex]

Well u don't get bluescreens on linux it's kernel fault instead

[crystal wren]

In my experience, Ubuntu has been one of the easiest to break distros I've used.

[rain apex]

Or mystery graphic drivers explode

[crystal wren]

User friendly for sure, but... I don't know how, I've broken way more Ubuntu installs than any other distro.

[sage canopy]

It wasn't purple, it was truly blue. But then again, it was showing me an error with its graphics card driver so maybe it couldn't make it purple

[dusty pollen]

you can't get BSoDs because they're a windows thing, not because linux is unbreakable

[cinder karma]

I've also broken my ubuntu install repeatedly

[cinder karma]

-# that's the joke

[dusty pollen]

I don't like Ubuntu either, I tried it a bunch of times and it was never for me

[cinder karma]

-# I will play the kerbal space game when I'm not busy

Tbh I also hear good things about Factorial

And I really am curious about shenzhen

But you know

[crystal wren]

Factorio is very popular!

[cinder karma]

I'm about 9x more likely to actually visit shenzhen in person

[cursive sigil]

How you ended up actually playing stardew at some point is a mystery to me

[cinder karma]

Don't worry it's a mystery to me too.

[thin estuary]

Playing? I thought we only modded

[crystal wren]

Technically this is off-topic, so we're allowed to play in here.

[sand frost]

I thought all we did here was compile code

[dusty pollen]

I would try to see if uber's xkcd command is unbanned yet but I think uber is down sadge

[crystal wren]

It was back a little bit ago...

[fleet wren]

at my work it's "the integration tests are running"

[crystal wren]

Speaking of that, this is coming along.

[dusty pollen]

nope, back down

[safe dragon]

I've unfortunately put myself into a situation where everything compiles quickly and the tests complete in less than 30 seconds

no breaks

[dusty pollen]

time to put in some seasoning for the compiler to slow down on

and then if your job is ever in trouble, you remove them and you're adding so much efficiency!

[safe dragon]

some source generated files that are very expensive even though they do nothing

[fleet wren]

clearly you're not spinning up enough prod servers for your tests /lh

"this is a JS unit test" "I know, boot them up anyway"

[dusty pollen]

the trick is to write tests so bad that they take 30 minutes to run and then fail nondeterministically

[ivory shadow]

(Hmm. Seeing this makes me wonder... Should mod manifest builder have an option to detect running in ci and add the current commit hash to the version? 🤔 )

Sorry that was dreadfully on topic of me to say

[rain apex]

It's ok DH, a junimo, started it

[cinder karma]

I don't think the current commit hash should be in the version but I would like it if it was in the manifest

And built into the binary somehow

[rain apex]

Finally the usecase for extra manifest fields

[crystal wren]

That might actually be kinda nice for a debug build!

(And sorry, have to ban us both now. /j)

But maybe for a release build too?

Nice built-in link to a specific commit that carries along easily...

[dusty pollen]

self ban, brutal

[ivory shadow]

I mean semver has a specific mechanism for build metadata that also specifically doesn't affect sorting.

So it could definitely fit there

Though I don't think you could fit that in the binary's version. Have to find something else for that

But you'd want to use the manifest version field so it gets logged

[cinder karma]

Why does Firefox have an ask chatgpt button

[cyan shadow]

They added a chatbot panel at some point

You can disable it in settings

[worn remnant]

every product/company that does not pivot to ✨ AI First ✨ will be eaten (this is the orthodoxy. i do not subscribe)

maybe it is true. the VC crowd is certainly doing everything in their power to make it so. however: fuck those guys

[strange copper]

windows took an entire half hour to update last night and if i open it and it's copilot i'm gonna be annoyed

[cinder karma]

I'm mad today because my coworkers put together a document on SharePoint and didn't tell me and now I can't open the document

[worn remnant]

the other thing about it re:mozilla specifically is that it's fully normal for mozilla to panic and do a full-company pivot every six months or so as they perpetually flail and grasp for relevance

[cyan shadow]

I jumped ship to a firefox fork and it's very nice

[cinder karma]

Because SharePoint is glitch

[cyan shadow]

Zen Browser, good soup

[worn remnant]

i wish mozilla did not have to do this, but they persist

[cyan shadow]

Has no AI panel

Has very nice UI

Is prebby

[cinder karma]

I like Rust

[cyan shadow]

I'm hungry

[cinder karma]

Rust is relevant because it's Mozilla's language

Being hungry is relevant because mozzarella sounds like Mozilla

[cyan shadow]

Yes

I shouldn't be hungry tho I just had dinner

Hmm
This is a good excuse to eat muffins

[sand frost]

I hate sharepoint but alas

I am stuck

[cyan shadow]

I haven't had to use it yet and I hope I won't have to

[cinder karma]

I have gotten my grubby little hands on this document and....it isn't very useful

Thanks

[supple ether]

I've started using zen recently too! I was a bit iffy about side-tabs but it's been growing on me a lot

[cyan shadow]

I got it because of the side tabs

[supple ether]

vanilla firefox can do sidetabs too nowadays
zen has other stuff on the side, though, so it makes a bit more sense layout-wise

[cyan shadow]

yeah I quite like it

I also like how they implemented workspaces

more intuitive

[supple ether]

yeah, and the pinned tab implementation is much nicer

also I like that it has proper audio controls

and the link preview thing is cool

the only thing that annoys me is when I use f11 it doesn't hide the sidebar

more specifically programming-related, but three times now when I've looked up some poorly-documented arcane .net thing this one guy's blog came up with a specific post about the thing where he walks through it bit by bit. I have no idea who Andrew Lock is but thank you for delving into the poorly-documented caverns of nuget and source generators

[lethal walrus]

there's a keybind for that you (compact mode i think?) can probably bind to f11 too

[cyan shadow]

I have an extension that does that automatically, good soup

[supple ether]

Oh what's it called? That sounds useful

[cyan shadow]

https://zen-browser.app/mods/bd92a9a0-1c00-4187-a66e-94c389fa5a59?q=sidebar

[lethal walrus]

ooh it's like less compact compact mode (https://pillow.is-a-cutie.online/zSf5HlzL4Q)

[wet tendon]

zopfli my beloved

[devout vault]

I'd switch to a firefox fork if any of them supported old XUL style extensions and new ones, but all of them are either one of the other.

Is having uBlock Origin / RES / Tabby Cat and being able to make my hypothetical horizontal tree style tabs extension so much to ask????

[limber gorge]

i left opera gx around when they started cluttering it with generative stuff

its also just a terrible browser

[vestal hull]

Another r/sm person.

[dusty pollen]

r/sm?

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/sm?

[dusty pollen]

that's not a real subreddit, uber

[pliant snow]

Super mario

Super metroid

[dusty pollen]

what's the r

[safe dragon]

radioactive

[vestal hull]

r/skyrimmods

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/skyrimmods

[vestal hull]

@limber gorge hangs out there.

Thank God, I pinged the right one.

There were, like. Four.

[limber gorge]

oh hi

[vestal hull]

Yeah lmao

[devout vault]

Hmm, does modding for other games count as off topic enough for being on topic for this channel.....

I'm going to vote yes, simply because I've done it with minecraft modding before

[marble jewel]

I see this channel as being more of a catch-all for the usual derailment we tend to cause over in #making-mods-general

[limber gorge]

i installed shaders once...

my fps

5

[plucky eagle]

hey, can someone here help me with gamepad mode?

[devout vault]

I mean, that is why it was made

[devout vault]

If it's a mod specific problem you'd want to ask in #modded-stardew (or #making-mods-general if it's related to making a mod), or for vanilla ask in #stardew-valley I think?

(I'm not as familiar with the non-modded channels)

[plucky eagle]

No, it is not mod related, but i have tried everywhere and i have gotten no help. I have been trying for over 6 months now, i was wondering if maybe someone who knows programming can help me here.

[devout vault]

Well, basically the one thing this channel is about is basically "anything but stardew". Like half of the regulars (including myself lately) aren't even actively doing stuff with SDV

[rain apex]

i think #vanilla-tech-support might be what you want?

[sand frost]

I’m not totally sure what a game pad is ngl

[cinder karma]

I'm assuming controller unless told otherwise

[sand frost]

I was picturing DDR

[cinder karma]

I'm going to join you in picturing ddr

@plucky eagle check the settings to make sure the game hasn't decided to disable the controller

[strange copper]

If i had ddr at home id play it so much

[cinder karma]

If not that. If you're in mac or linux try a different controller

Or use steam betas to go back versions of the game

[plucky eagle]

I already checked that, i have tried everything The gamepad mode simply cannot be forced on. It has been like this since the 1.6.12 patch.

[plucky eagle]

Already tried there, but no one is replying Tried the forum as well.

[rain apex]

tbh i feel like ive seen your thread, and just did not have the answer because there's so little to go off of

[plucky eagle]

Already tried this, but had to update because i want to start modding again.

[cinder karma]

Are you on mac

[plucky eagle]

yeah, and they deleted it. I really dont know where else to go.

[cinder karma]

Are you a tsmc mac

[rain apex]

atm i am just dealing with the fact that i dont have access to my 3rd and 4th mouse buttons

[plucky eagle]

No, im on windows.

[cinder karma]

Weird

[rain apex]

you can try posting in the help channel again, cus realistically #rgb-interest/#netherlands-general/#framework-enjoyers channel is not going to have your answers either

[plucky eagle]

Im insisting because i was hoping that the patch that would fix this would come out at some point, but it seems like the one released on dec was the last one and they forgot about it.

[rain apex]

it might not even be a game thing and just mystery hardware incompat

[plucky eagle]

thats why im asking here. Is there anything i can do or try to fix it? Or troubleshoot it? Because im out of ideas by myself

[cinder karma]

If you use steam there are apparently settings to toy with there

Or try a different controller

[plucky eagle]

i have tried looking for mods that would force the gamepad mode on as well, but nothing works. The ones i found on Nexus are really old.

[plucky eagle]

Tried this, did not work.

[cinder karma]

The other thing to do is turn on verbose logging in smapi

And like, see if the game sees your controller at all

[plucky eagle]

Tested 2 controllers and both of them with other games and it is definitely the game.

the mode works until 1.6.11, then it stops working after 1.6.12

[cinder karma]

Tbh it's kinda the way it is. Send a forum post or smth

Which windows version

[plucky eagle]

It is not SMAPI, i have tested it with/wihout SMAPI and the problem persists. I have tried everything.

[cinder karma]

Yes. But smapi has verbose logs

[plucky eagle]

I have tried twice on the forums. Did not get a fix or even an answer from any dev there.

[cinder karma]

Tbh it's out of scope for this channel, which is supposed to be the off topic fun channel

Realistically - forums are your best bet

[plucky eagle]

Anywhere else i can try? Anyone in here who knows any of the devs that can report the issue?

I feel like at this point the issue is beig ignored on purpose, it really feels like they forgot about it and are not really working on any new patches.

[rain apex]

it's a difficult problem to debug when no one can literally go to your house and try your PC

[cinder karma]

I get that you're frustrated, I'm sorry.

[rain apex]

i doubt you would want anyone to do that

[cinder karma]

But there is very little we can do in the off topic channel

[plucky eagle]

I could try if you tell me what to do, im not super hacker but i can troubleshoot just fine.

[rain apex]

atra has suggesting things, turn on verbose logging in smapi and check if game sees the controller at all

[plucky eagle]

verbose logging in SMAPI is the log that you get when the game is initiating? You mean you want all of it, like in a text file?

[rain apex]

yea get that but then put it in an actual help channel

[cinder karma]

No. It's like smth like log inputs or smth

[rain apex]

the other way i recall off hand is log_context

[cinder karma]

One of thr console commands turns on input logging

Yes

[rain apex]

which logs all ur keypresses

[cinder karma]

Log context

[worn remnant]

daphne i understand you are frustrated but this is not the channel for this

[rain apex]

im willing to continue to try and help you even though i have zero idea what could possibly be wrong

but only in the right channels

[plucky eagle]

Im sorry, but you guys are the only ones replying. No one else will. Where should i go then?

[rain apex]

#vanilla-tech-support i'd say

[plucky eagle]

But there is no activity there.

[worn remnant]

that does not mean it's okay to go to inappropriate channels

anyway i'm not a moderator, i'll stop now

[dusty pollen]

guys I just found python code I wrote when I was 14

honestly... not as terrible as I feared other than closing IO after returning from a method (there's a 99% chance I was editing this in IDLE and it didn't catch things like this at the time)

however, by far my favourite file is test string.py (that's right, there's a space in the name), which I give to you completely unchanged

#string = "nameeeeeee010203"
#string2 = "jornwbkjarwe986782"

#array = []
#array.append([string[:-6],int(string[-6:-4]),int(string[-4:-2]),int(string[-2:])])
#array.append([string2[:-6],int(string2[-6:-4]),int(string2[-4:-2]),int(string2[-2:])])

#print(array)
#string3 = int("%.2d"%5)
#print(string3)
#found = False
#if not found:
#    print("test")

#record1 = open("students1.txt")
#stuydent = record1
#stuydent.write("testing")
#for i in stuydent:
#    print(i)
#stuydent.close()

def thing():
    file = open("students1.txt","r+")
    for i in file:
        print(i)
    file.close()

def case():
    s = "this IS a STRING"
    print(s.lower())
    print(s.title())
    print(s.upper())
    print(s.capitalize())

def returns():
    def test():
        array = ["this", "is","an","array"]
        return array

    testThing = test()

    def otherThing(other):
        print(other)

    otherThing(testThing)

def format():
    six = 55.66666
    seven = 55
    print("%..5f"%six)
    print("%..5f"%seven)

format()

[strange copper]

i want to know what the purpose of this program is

[crystal wren]

Learning Python, it looks like!

[strange copper]

i like how seven is 55

[crystal wren]

The oldest stuff I ever wrote will be long since lost to time, unfortunately... also probably terrible.

[dusty pollen]

this is about two years too recent to count as the oldest code I ever wrote haha

but it was probably my introduction to python!

[crystal wren]

string2 = "jornwbkjarwe986782"

My favourite part.

[dusty pollen]

it's the name of a stuydent

ofc

(I'm honestly kind of impressed that the code I wrote seemingly two weeks after this includes things like tuple unpacking, lambdas, attempts at generalising code instead of directly putting things in an if statement the attempt was just a less direct if statement but still, etc)

I also clearly knew even then what the superior data storage method is: .txt files

[dusty pollen]

(I also made a gamemaker game in school using the GUI version back when I was 9 which is probably lost to time but ig counts )

[crystal wren]

Hey, even if you used the visual programming aspect of it... still programming!

[red crest]

it doesnt count unless you find and post it in here for us to see /j

[crystal wren]

Technically counts!

Okay no, good point.

[dusty pollen]

god I hope I can

I drew the sprites by hand

[crystal wren]

Find that, put them into a Stardew mod, get that Pixelsmith...

[dusty pollen]

oh my god I think I found it

now just to find out how to open a .gmk file from 2010 (not 2009, my bad, I'm a fraud)

[crystal wren]

So I know you can import projects from old versions into GMS1... but not the current GMS2...

[dusty pollen]

and also I have neither

[crystal wren]

Well 2 is free for non-commercial... 1... I don't know!

[dusty pollen]

I'm currently installing java for a conversion tool someone made

that should at least allow me to export the images lmao

[crystal wren]

I think I might have a copy of GMS1...

[dusty pollen]

aren't they an icon

[crystal wren]

Looks like GMS1 is only unofficially available now... welp.

[dusty pollen]

this was the player character

this converter is having trouble with hebrew characters lmao

[crystal wren]

You know, that somehow doesn't surprise me.

[dusty pollen]

I am doing some shenanigans to get around it though

[crystal wren]

So (at risk of touching on being on topic) you're going to turn this into an arcade machine for Stardew, right? /j

[dusty pollen]

let's see what it's like first

[safe dragon]

I wake up to beautiful art

[dusty pollen]

stop why is fireflies the music I chose

this is art

I wish I could be certain I could share this without doxxing myself lmao

idk what's going on with the hebrew support but whatever lmao

the houses say "Mr. Green" and collisions are implemented by not being able to move if your character touches a wall

[crystal wren]

I just realised... you know what this is reminding me of, specifically the art of the enemies?

https://youtu.be/_4U4ZW37haU?t=102

[dusty pollen]

clearly I was an innovator

to be clear obviously not all the assets were hand drawn but the monsters, player character, and houses were

as was the amazing "you lose" screen

okay I think the hebrew in this game isn't unsupported, it's somehow corrupted

[crystal wren]

Being so long ago, I wouldn't be shocked if it was some weird encoding that just happened to work at the time because of the system's encoding, and just... won't work right now without knowing exactly what was what!

[dusty pollen]

yup, this would have probably been written on windows XP, vista at the latest

(idk why our computers were on xp that late either)

[dusty pollen]

can I send the executable here or will I get bonked

I changed all the strings to english versions just in case they're still recoverable and could doxx me

[cyan shadow]

(When was this?)

[dusty pollen]

(2010)

[cyan shadow]

I mean, it's your game and you're not selling it

[cyan shadow]

(We upgraded the family shitbox to Win 7 that year!)

[dusty pollen]

so two versions ahead

[cyan shadow]

Also you're not some rando
Though the source would be appreciated

[dusty pollen]

I should really be charging £100 per run of this

[dusty pollen]

so about that

as far as I can tell, this is from before gamemaker actually had a language or even a way to version control

it was all edited via gui

so I don't think I even have a way of sharing source

[cyan shadow]

Aww

[safe dragon]

we still had clients using windows xp back in 2022

[dusty pollen]

anyway

volume on please

[safe dragon]

I'll look forward to this after work

[dusty pollen]

@red crest ask and ye shall receive

some of the decisions in this thing are so funny

[sage canopy]

The name is promising

Also, that file size has some sort of ... gravity

[dusty pollen]

it's proof that this game was signed off by the universe itself (assuming the universe cares about earth and metric units)

[safe dragon]

what if this has been a giant long con this entire time and it's a virus

[dusty pollen]

a very, very, very long con

what if I rename it ScannedDefinitelyNotAVirus.exe?

[cursive sigil]

It is beautiful

[cursive sigil]

Yes please, how can i trust it if it doesn't even try to tell me it's not a virus??

[cyan shadow]

I shall play this after my exam is done

[dusty pollen]

good luck on your exam quill!

[cyan shadow]

(24 hour exam, we started working on it just now, 2 hours after the exam opened)

Thank youuu

If bestie didn't hate my chaos before this, he's gonna hate how disorganised I am now

[cursive sigil]

Good luck with the exam!

[crystal wren]

Thanks, Discord. This will be helpful for all of my single player games.

[safe dragon]

never heard of exitlag

[lethal walrus]

it's just a vpn branded for gamers

claiming to reduce ping

[safe dragon]

I wish that was all

they claim they improve your fps

[crystal wren]

...wait what.

[lethal walrus]

oh theyre one of those ones too

[safe dragon]

my favorite kind of stupid nonsense service

[crystal wren]

If it was just the ping thing, there's at least something potentially in that in the best case scenario...

[safe dragon]

smart routing is a thing I suppose. Cloudflare argo smart routing exists and absolutely works but it's ungodly expensive (and on the server side not the client)

[crystal wren]

Not even just that, like it is possible your ISP's default routing to x game server is awful, but okay to their VPN, and then bettet and more direct from then, but...

[safe dragon]

in theory yeah but is it something you could ever guarantee?

[crystal wren]

Nope!

[safe dragon]

it'd be mostly out of their control whether just reaching their VPN is already a worse route than the game would've been

this thing reminds me of those old Windows optimizer programs that would just clean some temp files/caches, fuck with some registry keys and then claim they fixed everything

[crystal wren]

Yeah, and they also happen to bundle one of those pieces of garbage.

[safe dragon]

oh

I mean I shouldn't be surprised

[crystal wren]

I mean what do you think the FPS boost part is? I assume it's one of those!

[safe dragon]

the routing this is technically achievable but definitely not for 6.25 usd a month

[crystal wren]

Oh, I guarantee they just have a single decent fixed route for each exit node to the most popular game servers.

[safe dragon]

they'd need to be some cloudflare level service with connection points absolutely everywhere to have really accurate real-time info on the routing performance

to provide it as a guarantee

[crystal wren]

Sadly, I don't think a company that sells snake oil worries about needing to prove it to people who are willing to buy snake oil.

[safe dragon]

at least there's something theoretically possible here

unlike audiophile hard drives

[crystal wren]

Or audiophile switches!

Don't tell me to make my tuples ugly, PyCharm.

[safe dragon]

ew

throw that linting rule in the trash

[crystal wren]

That's a bit sad it can't infer the type here...

def get_project_path(project_name: str) -> (bool, str):

[lethal walrus]

if you define the function's return as just one value does it infer it as the tuple?

[crystal wren]

Huh, yeah, it actually doesn't seem to acknowledge the tuple either.

[safe dragon]

is this python's funky type hints

[crystal wren]

Yeah, I guess they just don't really... work right in all situations?

[cinder karma]

Tuple[bool, str]

[crystal wren]

*narrows eyes at Python*

[safe dragon]

like the good old days of Tuple<bool, string>

[dusty pollen]

what's the point of type annotations in python anyway? iirc they can't be used for anything

[safe dragon]

let the linter catch more errors

presumably it also aids autocomplete but idk I don't use python

[crystal wren]

Other than this... not a clue!

[safe dragon]

tbh I do not want to use a langauge that doesn't at least give me the ability to specify types

[crystal wren]

Yeah, I think this is the only thing making me not hate Python.

[cinder karma]

Yes a lint can do it

You also get the types at runtime of you want to do metaprogramming fun

[crystal wren]

You know I very, very nearly used .NET 10's C# script run feature instead of Python in that GitHub workflow?

[safe dragon]

lmao

it barely even exists yet rn

[crystal wren]

Hey, it runs!

[dusty pollen]

I thought python type annotations were interesting and then I found out that they don't enforce anything and can't be used for anything and stopped caring

[crystal wren]

Really, it's for documentation purposes... and I think that's it.

[safe dragon]

I've been slowly learning and wrangling with the typescript type system at my job

it can do so much

and a lot of it is incredibly confusing

[crystal wren]

It just makes me very sad and slightly grumpy that it has to built out to JS in the end anyway...

[safe dragon]

that's not entirely true

there are runtimes that can run ts directly

[crystal wren]

Do they... not just transpile it to JS and then interpret it automatically? If not, that's something at least...

[safe dragon]

Bun internally transpiles it into JavaScript then executes the file.

should've expected that

same is true for deno

[lethal walrus]

bun doesn't even do type checking, it just strips all the types

so if you have horribly invalid typescript but valid javascript, i'm fairly sure bun will run it

yep

[dusty pollen]

you guys just need to embrace the duck typing

(or whatever it is that javascript is throwing rocks at)

[cinder karma]

You can also use it for metaprogramming

[marble jewel]

They should make a typed Python and call it Typhon

[cinder karma]

Typhoon

[marble jewel]

The neat thing about Typhon is that it rearranges the letters of Python, and it's a reference to a giant serpentine monster from Greek mythology so it double fits the theme

Python is just a snake, but Typhon is a BAMF

[dusty pollen]

unfortunately, the python programming language is not, in fact, referencing snakes, but actually Monty Python /lh

(it's true though, look it up!)

[rain apex]

Grail language then

[safe dragon]

I just tabbed back into this and at a glance thought you said a girl language

[cursive sigil]

Where's my holy hand grenade then

[worn remnant]

typhon always makes me think of this guy because i am moderately final-fantasy-pilled https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/4/47/VIUltrosArt.png/revision/latest?cb=20120605193858

[crystal wren]

What about the what in the hell ||FF16|| version?

[worn remnant]

i have no comment on that particular entry

[rain apex]

BUTT MOUTH

[worn remnant]

and, like, shoulder exhaust port? just a wild design for a guy

[safe dragon]

I always thought those things were terrifying

wait no it's not what I'm thinking of

[crystal wren]

Are you thinking of pinkies from Doom?

[safe dragon]

I'm thinking of bomb also from final fantasy

I haven't actually played any entry with typhon in it

[crystal wren]

Bombs are the second most terrifying recurring FF enemy, yes.

[safe dragon]

the most terrifying enemy in final fantasy history goes to that little guy with a lantern

[crystal wren]

https://tenor.com/bIB72.gif

[safe dragon]

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Tonberry

[safe dragon]

exactly

[rain apex]

Lil knifey guys

[safe dragon]

I remember encountering that guy in final fantasy 10 as a kid and it just wouldn't die and I was panicking

[rain apex]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/f/f2/Ultros_battle.png/revision/latest?cb=20201114174416

I like him

[worn remnant]

YEAH MY BOY ULTROS

slash orthros but ultros is better

[rain apex]

He's just chilling in his river moist unbothered thriving

And then u beat him up

[worn remnant]

and then he becomes a recurring comic relief villain

[safe dragon]

poor guy

what game is he from

I don't recognize him...

[worn remnant]

final fantasy 6 (my beloved)

[safe dragon]

ah I never played that one

[worn remnant]

he's so ridiculous and it is never explained and i love it

[safe dragon]

I've only played 3, 4, 10 and 10-2

[rain apex]

There's a lot of that in 6

[safe dragon]

and like 20 minutes of that final fantasy 14 mmo that they immediately scrapped

[rain apex]

Like weird clown in middle of a whale

[worn remnant]

6 is beautiful and perfect and i adore it but also it sucks and it is held together only by dreams. it's so broken (mechanically)

[rain apex]

Yeah it was like

[worn remnant]

if you want a much better game play 5. if you want whatever the hell 6 is (and i suggest you do!) play 6

[rain apex]

Quadratic wizards

But 6 has train surplexing

[safe dragon]

really selling it

[worn remnant]

6 has everything. my beloved

well. it doesn't really have enough female characters. but the ones it has are pretty good!

[rain apex]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/5/54/Sabin_Questions_Vargas_from_FFVI_Pixel_Remaster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220307113534

The boss and ur guy are supposed to be same size (huamn sized)

[safe dragon]

lmao

[rain apex]

https://tenor.com/view/ffvi-suplex-sabin-train-phantom-train-gif-12127442

[worn remnant]

legend

[safe dragon]

so the simple conclusion is that that guy would never fit on that train

[rain apex]

I never figured out how to use sabin's nonsense (u have to enter fighting game combos?)

[safe dragon]

well.. "on" it could work

[rain apex]

6 is also the first ff with female mc, terra my girl

[worn remnant]

yeah you are literally expected to input a street fighter hadouken to do the hadouken move

[rain apex]

I think ceres is sekrit mc tho

[worn remnant]

she is act 2 mc for sure

[dusty pollen]

what a cutie

[safe dragon]

a nightmare creature

haunted my dreams

[crystal wren]

Regardless what people think of FF7 Rebirth (I loved it), it has the best tonberry of all time.

[worn remnant]

i haven't played part 2 but i (broadly) liked part 1

[crystal wren]

Well if you want to see what I mean: https://youtu.be/FAZq_k0K3Jg

I genuinely love him, and would buy one instantly if they made one.

[worn remnant]

that is pretty swell

[crystal wren]

It wouldn't even have to move. Just be a tonberry ||humidifier||.

[safe dragon]

I have yet to play any version of final fantasy 7

[safe dragon]

incredible

[cinder karma]

How are we

[crystal wren]

Definitely talking about programming.

[marble jewel]

Is FF7 turing complete?

[rain apex]

Idk if any FF has ACE

[cinder karma]

Video games are programing

More programming tha. My knitting

[rain apex]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQfj3BDgHPQ

Programming confirmed

[marble jewel]

Can knitting run Java?

[dusty pollen]

Should knitting run java (no)

[cinder karma]

Java runs knitting

[safe dragon]

if only programming was as organized as knitting

[dusty pollen]

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of knitting

[rain apex]

I thought knitting is about pushing LOOPS onto the HEAP

[safe dragon]

oh no

I thought it was all about repeating patterns

[dusty pollen]

knitting is actually about finding something that's the perfect combination of thinking and brain empty while still moving your hands

[safe dragon]

just like runescape

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6410 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1380623660569858078)

[lethal walrus]

what do you selfhosting people use for access externally?

[marble jewel]

What kind of access? You mean private access or public?

[lethal walrus]

private access yes

[marble jewel]

I use Tailscale as a mesh vpn between all of my servers

You can also self-host Headscale on a VPS if you want to remove Tailscale from the equation

[lethal walrus]

is tailscale particularily scandalous or just big company so questionable with cloud stuff?

[marble jewel]

I think Tailscale is awesome. It's essentially the Wireguard protocol behind the scenes, but it allows every server to talk to every other server. And you can setup some access control rules using YAML.

[lethal walrus]

oo

[marble jewel]

And if you want to self-host Headscale let's you mange the server part on your own. So all of your servers talk to the Headscale instance, and the Tailscale client lets them all see each other as if they're all hosted on the same subnet.

[red crest]

i thought i heard about Tailscale having some concerns about the direction they were moving in lately but since i dont use it i didnt look too closely into it

[lethal walrus]

i see

[red crest]

i use ZeroTier for my stuff though, though i dont think that has a self-hostable option? unsure, i wasnt fussed so again didnt look into it

[marble jewel]

Also note, Headscale implements Tailscale's control server, but they're not directly affiliated with Tailscale. It's an open sourced, self-hosted, project https://headscale.net/stable/

[lethal walrus]

assumed so

[marble jewel]

In my setup, I have a raspberry pi advertising my home subnet over tailscale, and my dns only routes to my private subnet, so I can still access everything via my domain names (and with ssl support), but they are never open to the public internet

[safe dragon]

tailscale

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/mando-way-this-is-the-way-mandalorian-star-wars-gif-18467370

[lethal walrus]

that is a lot of fancy words

[marble jewel]

It just means that no matter where I am, I can access my home network using the local ip addresses

So 192.168.2.x refers to my home even when I'm away from home as long as I'm connected via Tailscale

[lethal walrus]

ooo

oh this is so cool

[devout vault]

technically they could improve the fps of single threaded multiplayer games using blocking sockets! which are a crime and shouldn't exist, to be fair

[devout vault]

I mean, there's the gmk file, for the many people here who surely have that old game maker version installed 😛

2009/2010 was about the time I moved to C++ instead of Game Maker

Never used game maker 8

I might have old game maker games somewhere on my old harddrives, if they still work (they were haphazardly put in a box with a bunch of other stuff before moving)

For old code, I would show code from my first C++ game (https://spacechase0.com/games/warehouse-panic/), but:

• Another person on the project later cleaned up all the stuff I wrote.
• While it was through source control, it was SVN hosted on google code. RIP

[dusty pollen]

in my humble defense, I was ten in 2010

[cinder karma]

Teensy

[dusty pollen]

I know, I know, you were a hundred and five

[supple ether]

Haha zoomer

[cyan shadow]

y'know, I keep forgetting we're nearly the same age

[dusty pollen]

are you calling me ancient. immeasurably old. atra-aged

[cyan shadow]

no

26

or 27

no more

but no

we're both mid-20s and very tired

[devout vault]

I was 13, so... basically the same? (if not "worse" because hormones were probably starting up soon /s)

[devout vault]

Wow, I'm older than a junimo.

Now I need to decide if this should make me feel good or bad

[sand frost]

For kids a couple years is a lot tho

Like teaching an 8 yr old vs a 10 year old vs a 13 year old is very different

[devout vault]

I know but I wanted to make the hormone joke, hush

[sand frost]

middle school is a tough age

[devout vault]

Also, at least from my experience, middle school aged kids are a living nightmare

[sand frost]

both tough for the middle schoolers and tough for anyone interacting with them

they get better around high school age

the ability to realize that actions have consequences before the consequences happen is such a developmental milestone

[devout vault]

I wouldn't know about that part since I got transferred to homeschool half way through my first middle school semester from how bad the bullying was 😛

[sand frost]

i used to teach 6th-12th graders and man were the 6th-8th graders a tougher crowd than 9th-12th

[devout vault]

(and also I strongly suspect that brief middle school experience was why I got painfully shy/reclusive until college, and even didn't get "mostly" past that until post college)

[sand frost]

I do kind of miss teaching them, they're such a handful but it keeps you on your toes

What's life without a bit of challenge

[devout vault]

You know what else keeps you on your toes?

Heels

[cyan shadow]

if it helps, my knees are 40

[sand frost]

I do also enjoy heels

Unfortunately, certain parts of my feet don't enjoy them as much

[devout vault]

My left knee has been unhappy lately, though I suspect it's due to my weight

[cyan shadow]

i have hypermobile joints, all of them are varying degrees of angy

[sand frost]

I had a time when my knee made a funny clicking noise and my doctor said to let it rest up until it stopped and it eventually went away

[cyan shadow]

maybe if I start skating again, they'll cooperate a bit

[sand frost]

ice skating or roller skating?

[devout vault]

A bit odd it's just my left knee, but that might be the leg I've broken twice in the past (and also fell once and maybe made a small fracture but never got it checked out at the doctor)

[sand frost]

thats?? concerning??

fractures sounds bad!!!

[devout vault]

I mean, that's just my suspicion

[sand frost]

i don't think that's what bones are supposed to do

[devout vault]

I didn't come up with that theory until quite a while after the fact when I noticed it felt slightly different than the spot on my other leg

[sand frost]

yes but i'm going to go out on a limb here and say you have this suspicion for reasons

and that itself is concern

[dusty pollen]

pet peeve but fracture=breaking, just a medical term

[sand frost]

(pun halfway intended)

[cyan shadow]

roller! It's no longer ice skating season so I can't pick that up even if I wanted to, the rink is closed

[devout vault]

And even now if I press that spot on that leg it gets bad feeling (past uncomfortable but not quite hurting) with less pressure than the other leg

[devout vault]

An attempt at roller skating is where this "fracture" (quotes for irocendar) happened

[cyan shadow]

casey, I think you gotta get it checked out

[sand frost]

i've thought about picking up roller skating

[devout vault]

What's the term for "maybe a crack but not a full on break", then?

[sand frost]

depends on your insurance here, quill

[cyan shadow]

I used to compete when I was a kid, was a speed demon
had quite a nasty fall when I was 14 and retired, but I want to skate recreationally now

[sand frost]

hairline fracture

[cyan shadow]

ah yeah 😅

[devout vault]

Can they even do anything at this point? This was in the latter half of college, so it's been over 5 years

[sand frost]

typically fractures that have healed you can't do a lot about, i think

[devout vault]

(I don't have insurance at the moment so that is indeed a significant factor)

[sand frost]

but you might get PT if it's causing the bad knee

[cyan shadow]

pt, probably

[devout vault]

Well, the knee thing has only popped up the past year or so. So while it could be built up stress from that, it could also be built up stress from my weight (probably both to be honest)

[sand frost]

the tricky thing is that joints are something a little delicate sometimes, so it can be worth investing in their care — the broken bone I stronly suspect nothing to be done, but as quill says PT can help keep the joint stronger

A good bit of PT is IDing what exercises to do to strengthen the muscles that support the right stuff, and then training you to do them right

[dusty pollen]

bones are stupid and I wish I could throw mine away

[sand frost]

I am no doctor but it may be worth looking up knee joint supporting exercises and seeing what's up w them — modulo not making the knee worse

[cyan shadow]

reject bone become soup

[devout vault]

something something "disgusted by the weakness of your flesh"

[dusty pollen]

I am already soup

[sand frost]

bodies are full of betrayal

[cyan shadow]

i am noodle

[sand frost]

I don't think mine is even particularly high on the betrayal scale and yet i regularly feel betrayed by it

[dusty pollen]

scoliosis, flat feet, and almost definitely hypermobile

[cyan shadow]

I extended my arms while stretching yesterday and the look on bestie's face
he'd forgotten my elbows overextend

[dusty pollen]

and that's just the bones >:(

[devout vault]

My body betrayed me before I was even born. Smh I'd be perfectly fine putting up with periods if it meant having anatomy that felt right

[sand frost]

mine is hysterical (allergies) and hysterical (reproductive systems standard-level misbehaviors)

[dusty pollen]

elbow overextension does look freaky tbf I don't have that part and I hate seeing it

[cyan shadow]

I only have mild overextension!

mild!

well

not that mild

but it's not that bad

[devout vault]

I think my twin is hypermobile (in addition to tons of other body betrayals, he's going for a world record you see).

One thing aboyut my body that I've never understood is I can get my left hand further up my back than my right

[dusty pollen]

my main issue is that my joints dislocate way too easily

[cyan shadow]

i'm not completely bendy

[cyan shadow]

bodies are whack

[devout vault]

Like my right hand can't go much higher than my hip but my left hand can feel my shoulder blades with my fingertips

[dusty pollen]

is your twin going for that spongebob meme

[devout vault]

The body made of glass one?

Perhaps

[cyan shadow]

i think i no longer qualify as soup

i am an amorphous blob

(exam stress = a birb wrapped in a blanket and holding not one, but two blahaj on her lap)

[devout vault]

Not going to go into detail about his medical stuff publicly of course, but like he isn't allowed to fly on planes for medical reasons

[devout vault]

Fun fact, I'm one of the rare trans people who do not have a blahaj despite having known what they are for a while.

I do, however, have a blahaj mod, so I guess that counts for something

[cinder karma]

Have I shown you my fun heels

[cyan shadow]

I have two because shonk

[devout vault]

(This mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/stardewvalley/mods/17550 - the one that is a weapon which shoots sharknados)

[cyan shadow]

blahaj blast

[dusty pollen]

strangely enough, apparently moderate heels might actually be good for me

[cyan shadow]

incredible name

[devout vault]

It came from a joke on the ES server during regularly scheduled unhinged time

[cinder karma]

I have these six inches wedges

[devout vault]

Speaking of heels, it wasn't until like 2-3 years ago that I found out when you wear heels (the taller kind with the thin bit at the back for the height) you don't put your whole weight on the entire shoe

[cyan shadow]

I have two pairs of low-heeled blocks for semi-formal to formal outfits and otherwise live in sneakers

[devout vault]

Like it makes sense but I was really surprised

[dusty pollen]

no, it's nearly impossible haha

[cyan shadow]

stilettos are awful

can't wear those

[devout vault]

I mean, it seems pretty possible if you want the back to break and you fall over?

[dusty pollen]

all your weight ends up on your toes once the heel is high enough

[cyan shadow]

I always wobble and go yeeek

[cyan shadow]

blocks work well for the hypermobile ankles

[dusty pollen]

idk, even with heels I trust, once you start walking, you're toe walking

[cinder karma]

I like wedge booties like this

[cyan shadow]

oh those are cute

[cinder karma]

Tall as heck but still very stable

[cyan shadow]

I had a pair like that but lower when I was in high school, I miss them

[devout vault]

Yeah, the thing that was most interesting me once I found this out is that I sometimes walk like this while barefoot anyways, since basically forever.

I think it's mainly when the floor is cold but I don't think exclusively

[dusty pollen]

you raise a good point, with my ankle getting worse I probably can't even balance on my old heels any more

[devout vault]

Plus the obligatory "stepped in something that should've been in the litterbox"

[cinder karma]

We should try you with a pair of heels, casey

[devout vault]

Sounds scary

Fashion scary

[cinder karma]

Not really

[devout vault]

(Not undesirable, but scary)

[cinder karma]

Smth like 2.5 in

[dusty pollen]

you're neurodivergent, right casey?

[cinder karma]

I'm a huge fan of wedges in general over stilettos

[dusty pollen]

toe walking is a very known thing with neurodivergent children

[cyan shadow]

I used to toe walk as a kid out of habit, it was daft but makes me extremely stable on them

[dusty pollen]

lmao the timing

[cyan shadow]

... well, that explains a lot, doesn't it

in my case i attended a daycare run by a lady whose son was incapable of putting all the rice in his gob and sent a lot of it on the floor instead

[devout vault]

How did you know? Whatever gave you that idea?

Was it that I've been talking about waffling about ten different hobbies/projects every day for the past few months?

[cinder karma]

Huh. I've not heard the toewalking before

[cyan shadow]

nothing wrong with him, mind, just a Boy™️ who was never scolded for being messy

[cinder karma]

Iro, is there any correlation to preference to barefoot

[cyan shadow]

I did not like stepping in dal chaval leftovers so I walked on my toes

[dusty pollen]

I think it's the fact you continue to talk to me I assume anyone who winds up being in my orbit is nd and I'm rarely wrong /lh

[cinder karma]

I generally will go barefoot as much as I can - lifting at home

[devout vault]

(ADHD, maybe some degree of autism but we only found out my dad was within the past few years so I've never really gotten checked, plus the normal dysphoria driven stuff. (And yes, I've heard of the three of those having statistically significant correlations 😛 ) )

[dusty pollen]

no clue, only heard of the toe walking one, but I wouldn't be shocked

[cinder karma]

At my worst I walked around barefoot in Boston

[cyan shadow]

I prefer being barefoot at home

[cinder karma]

Tbh the barefoot might have been a $that_school special

[devout vault]

I first read wedges as wedgies and was mildly confused, but only on a "weird but okay" level

[devout vault]

Oh. Huh. Really??????

[dusty pollen]

if you type "toe walking" into google, the first autocomplete is "autism"

[cinder karma]

Also tbf the only thing stopping me from going barefoot now is uh

The temperature

[cyan shadow]

but that might be cultural? in south india we straight up have benches outside the house to sit down and take your shoes off sometimes

[cinder karma]

Sometimes I'll go barefoot at work

Or. Uh, socked feet

[dusty pollen]

(it's common but not universal in the UK to take off your shoes in the house too)

[cinder karma]

It's common here to not wear shoes at home

I'm talking about not wearing shoes outside

In Boston

[cyan shadow]

(in my dad's hometown the bench is sometimes even built into the house directly rather than being separate furniture)

[cinder karma]

In winter.

[cyan shadow]

atra i don't know how you didn't get frostbite

[cinder karma]

Neither do I!

[dusty pollen]

(from the Cleveland Clinic)

[devout vault]

I stay barefoot at home but ever since they finally switched to AC a few weeks ago my feet have been regularly cold. Like right now

[cyan shadow]

isn't boston's winter roughly describable as "brr ouch ice crunch"

[cinder karma]

Nah

Barely below freezing

[cyan shadow]

THAT'S BRR OUCH ICE CRUNCH TO ME

[cinder karma]

Also this might be peer pressure

[cyan shadow]

you forget i grew up in the silicon valley... of the tropics

[cinder karma]

@sand frost was it a thing with you too