pzwiki_editing

[naive imp]

Well hey I have a new time killer at work lol

[digital helm]

These reasons are why Calvy and I have moved to generating lists for a lot of things, rather than including them in text 😆 it sucks... every update something minor could change and you don't really have a way of knowing where. Plus the time required to change them

A lot of things visually (front-end) we can change, regardless of whether it's mediawiki or not. It's the back-end things that we can't really do, for the reason Calvy mentioned, but also a lot of the features they develop are proprietary. They have entire teams to maintain things, we have Kirrus 😄

But anything that looks neat and you'd like to add it, we might be able to find a workaround. Especially once we can start using lua

[languid kayak]

We still suffer the location table being the right one and text being often outdated. Doesn't help we don't have (yet) anyone doing the changes an masse.

Will have to automate navboxes too, for items, but it's all lagging behind 😄

I think usage is something hard to keep standardized too I guess 🤔

[proud cobalt]

Yeah navboxes are rough, the more updates the worse it gets, but trying to update that first feels wrong too

[digital helm]

We're still sorting through splitting pages too. Which I'm also worried about, since we've created so many new item pages, that the navbox is going to be huge

[languid kayak]

can split them to smaller navboxes back again 😄 But yeah, we're slowly hitting the vanilla MediaWiki limitations

[flint vapor]

There's clipping issues with <div class="list-columns">

The problem is definitely the point before, I guess I should remove it

fml, some objects share the same line

nvm I need the bullet point

[digital helm]

If that happens you can modify the width with style="column-width:250px; max-width:900px;"
Default is 200px and 800px

It should line break though instead of clipping 🤔 so not entirely sure why that's happening

[flint vapor]

Bcs it's a whole single word I'd guess

[digital helm]

Oh true. Didn't notice

[flint vapor]

That seems to do it yea

[proud cobalt]

First look at construction recipes. Doing it in sandbox even though the main page doesnt exist, for simplicity. Still a fair bit of work to be done on this side of things, not to mention the bugs im sure its created on the recipe side.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Construction_list/sandbox

[hushed bobcat]

It looks like none of those need a workstation. If that is the case, is it worth keeping a column for that? (It could be just a note under the required tool maybe?)

Or maybe, we could use for requirements the same idea of the "each of" / "one of": sometimes you need a skill at certain level + a workstation (each of), sometimes you need a certain skill level to learn something or learn it by a magazine (one of). Maybe that could help reduce the column amount need for the list (but the cons of potentially increasing the row height). Anyways, food for thought

[proud cobalt]

It's just based off the crafting template, i probably wont rewrite specially for this

[hushed bobcat]

I did a small update on the Bateman office building (https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bateman_Office_Building) trying to describe the content of floors (mostly offices) and discovered that the penthouse is some sort of mob office (since the type of zombies that spawn there are categorized as mob). Should that be marked as spoiler or plain text is fine?

[proud cobalt]

Plain text is fine

Its more of a trivia item though

[flint vapor]

That's funny lol

scroll bar

[languid kayak]

btw @proud cobalt now that Lucky and Unlucky seems to be removed (marked as such in the navbox), should we remove the bit from the location table?

[proud cobalt]

Leave it for now, let me investigate

[proud cobalt]

Omg sledgehammers are so much rarer now

[proud cobalt]

Loot in general is significantly rarer due to a change in zombie density

Sledgehammer usually sat at around 2.1% for most places, now it is down to as low as 0.08%

[proud cobalt]

I have removed them now

[digital helm]

That's wild. Validates a lot of the complaints a bit more

[slender wing]

ig it’s kinda balanced out now that you can craft them but yeah i noticed in my playthrough how much rarer they are

[proud cobalt]

Yeah it was so low I thought it had to be wrong. Verified about a hundred items and it was scarily accurate. Zombie density seems to be uniform across the entire map now, not sure if a bug or not.

At least the zombie density value used to spawn items, which is baked into the map itself. In B41 it varied based on cell, not actually based on zombies.

In B42 it's the same across the entire map

[digital helm]

That's good to know. I was wondering how to work with that for junk tables. But if it's all the same I guess it doesn't matter

[proud cobalt]

Junk ignores zombie density I believe

[digital helm]

That's right! The other way around then 😄 I just remembered there was something special about it

[languid kayak]

more zombies =better loot, right?

That'd make sense anyway

[flint vapor]

No it just means more loot

[proud cobalt]

meant to be more loot, but its not actually more zombies, its baked into the map per cell, but it doesnt work in B42

[grand cliff]

What’s up guys

Any guide on how to get started helping with this wiki transition?

Nevermind I just checked Pinned

[hushed bobcat]

https://ggservers.com/blog/project-zomboid-lore-timeline/ not sure if anything new, but it was good to see it in a single-compiled place

[median wind]

Ai is taking over

[quartz bear]

lol, as if

[median wind]

Ai images ^^^ and news articles area specifically

[slender wing]

that article is entirely AI

you can tell by the use of — between sentences lol

and the lists

[flint vapor]

@proud cobalt @languid kayak Did you guys make a script which goes through every script recipes automatically ?

[flint vapor]

<@&671452400221159444>

[digital helm]

Deleted

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt did as part of https://github.com/Vaileasys/pz-wiki_parser

[flint vapor]

Is it the script parser ?

[digital helm]

Recipe parser

Script parser is an old one that only parses the fixing now

[flint vapor]

👌

[flint vapor]

Do you know how to counter the dogshit import system of Python ? I've been trying to figure this fucking shit for a few months now

The python script will just not find the import paths

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\Users\simon\Documents\Perso\Jeux\Zomboid\Wiki\pz-wiki_parser\scripts\parser\recipe_parser.py", line 2, in <module>
    from scripts.core import utility, version
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'scripts.core'

[flat sun]

it's better to use relative imports because of stuff like this

if you open your terminal to the root folder of the project and then run python from there it should be able to resolve them

any python ide will probably let you do this too

[flint vapor]

I run them in VSCode

[flat sun]

i've only got experience with python in pycharm unfortunately

[flint vapor]

Had to move the file up so it can pick it up

[flat sun]

i'm sure vscode lets you set the working directory somewhere but i wouldn't know where

[flint vapor]

I swear this shit makes me want to fucking die so hard its horrible to manage

PS C:\Users\simon\Documents\Perso\Jeux\Zomboid\Wiki\pz-wiki_parser> & c:/Users/simon/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python312/python.exe c:/Users/simon/Documents/Perso/Jeux/Zomboid/Wiki/pz-wiki_parser/scripts/parser/recipe_parser.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "c:\Users\simon\Documents\Perso\Jeux\Zomboid\Wiki\pz-wiki_parser\scripts\parser\recipe_parser.py", line 2, in <module>
from scripts.core import utility, version
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'scripts'

This how it runs

I've lost so many hours in my life having to find hacky bits to deal with this bullshit when coding in Python

Makes me go insane

[flat sun]

just works in pycharm 😅

if you opened cmd to the root folder and then did python scripts/parser/recipe_parser.py it should work

[flint vapor]

💀

Pure insanity

[flat sun]

yeah nvm that doesn't work

[flint vapor]

This is the kind of hacky bits I end up doing in my python scripts to have modules

[flat sun]

just use relative imports

[flint vapor]

Even that just doesn't work

I tried a lot of stuff in my python scripts and even relative imports, from my understanding of them and things I tested, just doesn't even work either

[digital helm]

At work right now, so I can't check. But I think I add the root directory to PYTHONPATH in a .env file in the root directory

Given me plenty of headaches too

[flat sun]

i got timed out for ten minutes for trying to post python code (😓) so we moved to dms but we worked out that you're meant to run it through main.py

i think pycharm automatically adds the root folder of any open projects to PYTHONPATH for that environment which is why that sort of thing typically works for me

[digital helm]

Yeah main.py is the proper way

It'll also save the data to a json file so you can use it for what you need it for

[flint vapor]

Yea I got it working

[flint vapor]

Any solution to not having the codeblock completely eat up the entire table size ?

I tried forcing the column width to a specific percentage but that didn't seem to work

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Tables#Column_width

[digital helm]

🤔 Try max-width or set a pixel width

[flint vapor]

max-width in styling ?

[digital helm]

Yeah

[flint vapor]

Main or per cell ?

[digital helm]

The same as width

Per cell

You could probably try for the main table element

I'm thinking you may need to manually add the line breaks

[flint vapor]

In percentage ?

[digital helm]

Percentage is preferred, but try px if it doesn't work

[flint vapor]

👌

[digital helm]

Percentage not preferred for the main table element though

[flint vapor]

Can I even line break in code blocks ?

[digital helm]

I mean with enter/return not <br> 😄

If you send a link I can take a look

I've never tried using code block in a table

[flint vapor]

In pixel it seems to work

[digital helm]

Excellent!

[flint vapor]

Hmm

But on phone that's going to look bad no ?

[digital helm]

It will regardless, because the table is a wide one

[flint vapor]

Sounds good

[digital helm]

All tables are pretty bad on mobile tbh

[flint vapor]

😅

That's way cleaner thx

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ISContextMenu

In case you want to see the table on your side

The other one I'm currently creating the page

The recipe parser seems to be picking up commented out recipes @proud cobalt

[proud cobalt]

Interesting it specifically is designed to not do that

[proud cobalt]

Though, unpushed

I've put the readme back too, which might have saved you some headache

[flint vapor]

👌

[digital helm]

I need to fix this in the item parser too. Comments outside an item block are ignored. Just haven't gotten around to it yet

[ember obsidian]

Is it allowed that I edit some part of wiki and push it first? I will finish soon, however, I don't have enough time to finish at the same day.
So there will be EN and KO both in KO wiki page until I finish the translation. or should I copy & paste somewhere and push when it's done?
Sorry if its a dumb question, but I haven't edited wiki in my life 😄

[proud cobalt]

Yes you can save it and come back to it again

[proud cobalt]

New image category thanks to @digital helm pointing out where the images are 😄
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Recipe_icons
@languid kayak

[digital helm]

Do we think the entity icons should go in there too?

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i would say so

[languid kayak]

I'd say a different one, though might be a subcategory

[proud cobalt]

These might be good for workstation too

[languid kayak]

(also sorry guys, but couldn't wrap my head around lately over much stuff; will catch up on the summaty over the weekend I guess) 😄

[flint vapor]

What are these ?

[digital helm]

A bit presumptive currently, but part of the crafting that's still to be added. Couldn't find the video, but these recipes were shown as demonstrations https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/Crafting
Minecraft techmod-style crafting

[digital helm]

You're good 🙂

[digital helm]

Looks like we already had a category 😆 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Crafting_icons

[flint vapor]

Aaaah I see

[digital helm]

I imagine wires and pipes to connect machines

[proud cobalt]

No problem 😄 I've spent the past 4 days updating items to B42, I'm up to items starting with D 😆

[proud cobalt]

Yeah from what I remember in thursdoids there's still a lot to come from Crafting! Energy production and wiring and all kinds

Can't wait for it to totally break the parser

[proud cobalt]

[digital helm]

Hopefully anything new will just be in addition 🤞

[digital helm]

Found the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6gewj2PDU

[proud cobalt]

My first thursdoid I ever read!

So I wonder if generators will need to be hooked up with cables to the power cords on every house that @languid kayak pointed out ages ago. Because there's no 'generator' seen in the video. Obviously it's alpha placeholder testing, but still lots to come

[digital helm]

'Generator' in the video was the steam boiler

We may still have the 'electricty source nearby'. The cabling may just be when there's no electricty source nearby. But we have no idea 😄

[digital helm]

There's hope, considering this was August 2023

Everything seen in this vid was put together with minimal specific code – and largely relied on existing components put together within the machines in the PZ script files along with new items and recipes.
https://projectzomboid.com/blog/news/2023/08/the-connection-is-made/

[empty wagon]

hi guys, the Steel factory close to Echo Creek is marked as "Lumber Mill". Not sure where to inform about it so I come here, since the map is made by wiki volunteers.

coords: x1928 y10858

(idk how to share a link with coords lol)

[digital helm]

Thanks! @proud cobalt maintains it. Just need to add ?1928x10858 to the end of the url to link to it 🙂 https://b42map.com/?1928x10858

[empty wagon]

always happy to help ❤️

[proud cobalt]

Fixed
https://b42map.com?1935x10851

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i think it should be alright, maybe janky though if its force fit to recipes

[empty wagon]

if I wanted to help the wiki where do I start?

https://tenor.com/view/dance-project-zomboid-pz-rumerz-youtube-gif-25035826

[flint vapor]

Check the pinned messages

[languid kayak]

I've been going like slog with the blog posts that way 😄

I assume it's for b42? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Red_Dot_Sight&curid=6041&diff=822835&oldid=813985

[languid kayak]

I do remember reading some mondoids 👴

[flint vapor]

Why is there a limit to the number of about you can have

{{Header|Project Zomboid|Game mechanics|Character}}
{{Page version|41.78.16}}
{{Infobox character
|name=Player
|image=Player Character.png
|image_caption=Customized player character
|sex=Male or female (player's choice)
|occupation=Player's choice, see [[occupation]]
|traits=Player's choice, see [[trait]]
|location=[[Muldraugh]]<br>[[Riverside]]<br>[[Rosewood]]<br>[[West Point]]
}}
{{About|the playable character and is not applicable to the story|the old protagonist|Bob Smith|tutorial character|Jane Doe|java object defining the playable character|IsoPlayer}}
The '''player''', also referred to as the '''[[survivor]]''', is a character that can be controlled in [[Project Zomboid]], and refers to both singleplayer and [[multiplayer]].

java object defining the playable character|IsoPlayer

Doesn't appear

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_portal#Projects mostly

[empty wagon]

so if Im reading it correctly, for Polish translations currently 1483 articles have been auto-translated and haven't been checked, yes?

here is the whole table

i just looked at github and theyre all 3+ years old lol

[languid kayak]

yup

[languid kayak]

you mean the handchecked articles or translations?

[empty wagon]

i may help with this if I find some free time ngl. How do I learn more about what to do? On wiki the discussion page is dead

(im a native)

[languid kayak]

The translations are indded from b41.78.16, and community ones won't be updated as porfessional studio was hired for them, see pins in #translations

[empty wagon]

not exactly sure, let me screenshot the github for u

its the translations page i guess

[languid kayak]

yeah, this one's most active 😄 I'm native too, but I'm busy lazy. Hard to say where's best to start, most languages translate the templates first, the pages. Basically have to be redone, but even English one too

[languid kayak]

Yeah, those are in-game translations, and as wiki moves to b42 nowadays, we're waiting for official Polish one which I believe isn't out yet?

But we can translate templates in the meantime

[empty wagon]

🤔 as in?

also, I take it it would be wiser to wait for the official Polish for b42 and go from there?

[flint vapor]

Any info about that please ?

[languid kayak]

like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_item/pl for example (should be translated roughly), or others

[languid kayak]

for item names and recipes, yeah

@tulip kiln still watching but already there are some useful Easter Egg stuff here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj-lm0RKV_M – namely graffiti, but some names are butchered), I didn't realized Afekay has a graffiti; not sure we have it in the wiki? I'd have to check

381 businessess in b41; I wonder if we got them all 😄 Pinging @naive imp for that too

It also features a shoutout to pzwiki 😛 https://youtu.be/Rj-lm0RKV_M?feature=shared&t=444

[digital helm]

I guess we could add more. The idea though is that if there's more than 2, a disambiguation should be created instead. So, for the second one: |other uses|Player (disambiguation)

[flint vapor]

Hmm...

[proud cobalt]

It seems you're confused between the wiki translations and the games translations. For wiki translations start here

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Translations

[flint vapor]

The parser for crafting names the quantity of each items required as index, perhaps better to rename that to quantity or some shit

[proud cobalt]

Yeah stuff like that will come when it's finished

[digital helm]

I've added up to 3 articles to the about template. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:About
And also added IsoPlayer to the Player page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Player

3 here seems a bit too many to me 🤔 I'm thinking maybe just have IsoPlayer and a disambig link for 'other uses'. Let me know what you all think

[flint vapor]

I'm fine with it being in a disambig link, as long as it's properly mentioned that there's other pages similar to this one

Or

The whole about section could be reformed in a more readable way, but that's just an idea

[lucid junco]

Was a bit painful to watch the Sinsilla/Music festival part when he says that we dont know bands that were meant to play on it

When we now have a flier that lists all of the bands that were meant to play

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-movie-theater-movie-stare-staring-gif-26979565

Also... soon

@digital helm @languid kayak Im curious with how we will use new videos of locations and challenges, if at all

New ui uses videos to show them, though there are images for each video

For example

[languid kayak]

True; for me I wasn't aware Sinsilla was mentioned in b41 though; I totally missed it but I saw enthusiasm when we got their logo in b42

[languid kayak]

@tulip kiln you think the name on the brass plate, "Daryl Cranlon" might be a reference to something? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Brass_Nameplate

Also @proud cobalt I bumped vhe version on it: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Brass_Nameplate – it still has usage to be filled, and I only left one see also, but is just looking to the page warranting bumping the version? See https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Brass_Nameplate&type=revision&diff=872039&oldid=855965

[digital helm]

Probably wouldn't want to stray too far from the way Wikipedia does it, since it's what people would be used to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:About
Unless it was exceptional

[digital helm]

Currently not really a way to use them, other than uploading to YouTube and linking to them. So an image may just be better. Unless, since they're just static images, we cycled between them, like we do with tags https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Tag_Hammer

[digital helm]

Not an issue with auto-generated pages imo. So long as all the existing content is up-to-date

[quartz bear]

Project zomboid wikipedia

Anything bottable yet

Or source code related

I know I was superseded like 2 years ago but I can still try

[languid kayak]

probably a lot of things we can't formulate, so yeah 😄

[languid kayak]

@flint vapor is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ItemVisual and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/HumanVisual a Java object to be put on the navbox? Seeing the navbox's there

[flint vapor]

Should they be added to the navbox ? Yes

I mean basically every objects defined in the Java objects category

Is that something I can do myself ?

Could make your life easier to manage

[languid kayak]

you can, yeah, see https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ANavbox_Java_objects&type=revision&diff=872159&oldid=822559 (where I added the missing two and alphabetized the rest)

[flint vapor]

Alright

[languid kayak]

I suppose it's a thing indeed? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Moodle#Bad_Smell

[flint vapor]

I need to remember that shit lmao

[languid kayak]

added here: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Moodle&curid=322&diff=823059&oldid=791405

@serene sage for https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=PawsTV&diff=next&oldid=823123 do we assume it's 41.78.16 still? Has anything changed in 42.x?

[serene sage]

seems the same to me? haven't checked for sure yet

[ornate jewel]

any tips on how to cure sickness in b42?

[languid kayak]

better ask at #pz_b42_chat

[tulip kiln]

I don't think it's an easter egg, so it'd just be referencing Daryl Cranton, a reporter for GBC https://pzwiki.net/wiki/GBC

[proud cobalt]

Done
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Brass_Nameplate&diff=

[proud cobalt]

Added

[lucid junco]

Traits

They've definitely changed some of them and added in new ones

And we still don't know how or what

[proud cobalt]

And we expect more to come

[proud cobalt]

B42 construction recipes have gone up on item pages, lots of redlinks still obviously

[serene sage]

aoqia wants this thingy edited but neither of us can edit it right now so someone else here can do it if they’re available, just change ZomboidAssetExtractor to ZomboidAssetConverter

[proud cobalt]

Done

[proud cobalt]

@naive imp Spawn points on town pages will need to be updated BTW, not sure if it's been started

[proud cobalt]

Updater is also configured to update construction now too

[naive imp]

Lots of work to do overall. I'll be at my PC in a few hours to bang out some more locations. At the moment I'm more focused on getting individual location pages up to date, but I do know that that one person who did spawn locations for build 41 may be interested in doing it again? I'll reach out to them via talk page, not sure if they had a discord

[naive imp]

I don't think videos fit well with locations imo. Maybe as more of a strategy guide to show good ways of clearing zeds from populated locations? We had some YouTube videos by Ikip that nobody really cared about and we decided on removing them

If readers want to look at a location without going there in-game there's always the online map

[digital helm]

We could always parse it. Here's the json output for Riverside
Using the lua_helper from the wiki parser, this is just:

lua_runtime = load_lua_file("spawnpoints.lua")
lua_runtime.execute("points = SpawnPoints()")
parsed_data = parse_lua_tables(lua_runtime)
utility.save_cache(parsed_data, "spawnpoints.json")

[digital helm]

I agree. Using videos to show off locations would be a bit pointless

[naive imp]

Ooooooh this could be a good opportunity for me to start understanding shit like this

[digital helm]

Happy to help, if you need

[lucid junco]

Also couldnt upload the videos because they are in .bik

And I still didnt download any video editing software yet I couldnt make it into mp4

But here is how it is in the game files

[lucid junco]

Where do you find them exactly? 🤔

[digital helm]

They're in the map folders e.g., \media\maps\Riverside, KY\spawnpoints.lua

Actually worked out well renaming "locations" to "regions", the game's code seems to refer to them as regions too 😄

[quartz bear]

All Thumbs and Dextrous traits manipulate the chance to unjam a gun (this is not documented):

That piece of code gives me brain damage

Also affects this piece of code (All Thumbs => hasAwkwardHands = true, only used here)

Certain traits and occupations affect rope climbing speed.
Climb faster: Dextrous, Burglar, Gymnast
Climb slower: All Thumbs, Overweight, Obese, Heavy Load
(either this is not documented or not documented universally - I checked the Rope page and some of the trait pages)

lmao what

there's a 1% chance if you're lucky to have a rabbit foot keyring and then a 50% chance to have it be a clover keyring instead

[quartz bear]

also, although the game refers to the Obese trait as "Very High Weight" now (according to the wiki), the codename for this trait remains "Obese"

there are pillows in project zomboid? since when

[digital helm]

Shame the lucky trait can't be chosen anymore. So it'll never happen

[digital helm]

since the tech demo in 2011 😆

[quartz bear]

wtf 😭

[proud cobalt]

99% of features now 😂

[quartz bear]

it makes sense

i18n is a lie

everything must be perceived in codenames

how can i tell which traits are new and which ones aren't lmao

and oh god

to address the "fast metabolism" and "slow metabolism" traits you need an entire page dedicated to nutrition

[digital helm]

we do 😄 and it doesn't even mention fast and slow metabolism https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Nutrition

[quartz bear]

actually you do

they nerfed High Thirst so hard wtf

+1 points only

either way I don't see any "new" traits

only the fast metabolism and slow metabolism ones, which correspond to "weight loss" and "weight gain" respectively

[quartz bear]

which should probably be documented on this page and on the traits' respective pages

also, why search no worky

[digital helm]

Good find. I'll change that to the trait names

[lucid junco]

And smoker is still on the top

Ive heard people say that now you cough or something like that

But it is exactly the same

[quartz bear]

not a big deal when all we do is Q around

[lucid junco]

I also feel like they've nerfed window opening

They break 10 times as fast as I remember them to

[quartz bear]

elaborate

you mean they break more often when you try to open them from the outside?

[lucid junco]

Yeah

At least thats how it feels like

[quartz bear]

we can check that

argh

why did they call these dumb rectangles with information on them "windows"

windows is what you look through to determine if the world has come to an end yet or not

[lucid junco]

There is also this thing that Clearer trait descriptions show

[quartz bear]

didn't look into occupations

just the traits

uh

apparently if you're panicking too hard you cannot open windows

opening a window will smash it

no matter what option you choose

[proud cobalt]

I know, ever character I've ever had is so much weaker now

[quartz bear]

guess i'll have to switch from high thirst to smoker

nah pz world interaction code is so cursed

i cant work with it

@lucid junco in b42, there is a 10% chance to break a window lock (5% with burglar)

in b41... im kinda lazy to roll back to stable

actually i can still check

haven't updated my dedicated server

nope

exactly the same thing in b41

[lucid junco]

Maybe Im that unlucky

Thanks for checking

[digital helm]

@quartz bear can you or anyone verify that graceful and clumsy traits don't affect trip chance when vaulting? I was adding it and noticed it was recently removed, along with stating they "only affect sound" (which in itself is false)
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Graceful&type=revision&diff=850403&oldid=651499
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Clumsy&type=revision&diff=850399&oldid=649905

As far as I can tell they add +10 and -10 to the chance in ClimbOverFenceState.class

private boolean shouldFallAfterVaultOver(IsoGameCharacter isoGameCharacter) {
  ~snip~
        if (isoGameCharacter.Traits.Clumsy.isSet()) {
            _float += 10.0F;
        }

        if (isoGameCharacter.Traits.Graceful.isSet()) {
            _float -= 10.0F;
        }
  ~snip~
}

[quartz bear]

you mean, "used to add"?

[digital helm]

Want to make sure I'm reading it right. And that they are +10 and -10 now

[quartz bear]

oh cool

i didn't know that in order to fall over you had to be running or sprinting

but yeah, +10% chance for clumsy and -10% for graceful

[digital helm]

Thanks

I wonder why they thought it didn't affect it 🤔 they've made a lot of other edits to traits

[lucid junco]

Is gas cap side indicator vanilla now?

[thin cloud]

Because water is everywhere

[quartz bear]

yes and that's the fact I made use of when making my op builds

and you took it from me!

[thin cloud]

GOOD

[quartz bear]

nevermind that I haven't played the game for over a year!

[quartz bear]

see the point about smoker though

[quartz bear]

as cars evolve, so does project zombobid...

this is kinda triggering me though

[proud cobalt]

Not ideal

[lucid junco]

@quartz bear If you are still into checking traits, can you check how coughing while smoking a cig works

[quartz bear]

is it even implemented yet?

[lucid junco]

Wiki claims its 10% with smoker and 50% w/o

[quartz bear]

not useful information in itself huh

[lucid junco]

And there is a cigar

With 66.7% for non smokers and 20% for smokers

Which is realistic because holy shit do cuban cigars hit on your throat

[quartz bear]

lmao project zomboid reality check

yes indeed the wiki is right

50% for non-smoker and 10% for smoker

50% for non-smoker and 20% for smoker in case of cigarillos

66.7% for non-smoker and 20% for smoker in case of cigars

it's in Lua so no big deal

recipecode.lua

[lucid junco]

For some reason I cant get Fossoil Out of gas and Gas 2 Go out of gas signs to spawn

And both of them cant spawn as a loot

[lucid junco]

I know that you cant work with it

But I gotta know what are the chances that gas pump is empty upon world creation

https://tenor.com/view/guardians-of-the-galaxy-i-know-that-sounds-bad-that-sounds-bad-star-lord-gif-15280006307251536961

Gas 2 Go is loosing grounds

What used to be their station

Now is empty

Take that, corporation

(the sign is still there, its just not visible)

[quartz bear]

uhh is this like super necessary

im doing other stuff rn

[lucid junco]

Oh well

[quartz bear]

uhh, well

that's a world generator setting?

d is the final amount of gas here

seems to be uniform rng so if you have min. fuel amount set to 0 then you might as well get that

there's also something related to there being no-gas zones

but idk if that is anyhow related to actual gas stations or not

I'll try to investigate

there doesn't seem to be a no-gas flag in the zone generator

I'll check lua

nope, nothing there

seems to be obsolete or mod-exclusive

[quartz bear]

so this is the only thing you should worry about

the chance is configurable

[lucid junco]

Alright, thanks again

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Which one do you think would be better for a page?

Graffiti is bigger/higher res

But the sign is 100% correct since its all connected together

The graffiti was in parts, so Im not sure if thats close to the original

[naive imp]

Either way they should be straightened but I'd say include both. Just put the sign in the infobox and the graffiti in the gallery

Since nearly every other business has a sign in the infobox

[lucid junco]

So the clearer descriptions is correct?

You start off with high weight, but still have the higher calorie cap to gain weight

And also

HUGE smoker nerf

You can no longer be Athletic and smoke a pack a day

[digital helm]

It's that the calories required to start gaining weight is lower for slow metabolism, and higher for fast. But it's only if weight is above 90 or less than 70, respectively. So when you start the game, your metabolism will be normal until you lose some weight, since you start at 95 with slow metabolism

There's also this which I haven't looked into in detail yet, but seems to be related to weight loss

        if (this.parent.Traits.WeightGain.isSet()) {
            float2 = -200.0F;
        }

        if (this.parent.Traits.WeightLoss.isSet()) {
            float2 = 200.0F;
        }

[flat sun]

that part doesn't work, you can ignore it

they reassign the value right afterwards, so this block of code is essentially pointless

[digital helm]

Ah, thanks. That'd be why it's missing on the wiki

[flat sun]

if (this.parent.Traits.WeightGain.isSet()) {
    float2 = -200.0F;
}

if (this.parent.Traits.WeightLoss.isSet()) {
    float2 = 200.0F;
}

// irrelevant code removed for demonstration

float2 = (float)((this.getWeight() - 70.0) * 30.0);

[quartz bear]

#pzwiki_editing message

[digital helm]

I missed that part

[proud cobalt]

Gotta love all the commented out or overwritten code

[digital helm]

To keep us on our toes

Video policy https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Video_policy and style guide https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide#Videos added.

As mentioned before, this remains open to changes if needed. #pzwiki_editing message

[quartz bear]

Policy change: removed

🔥

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt @digital helm (or anyone), I've been going through Carina's models, and found https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MugClayFired_Model.png yet the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list only list unfired items; why's that?

[proud cobalt]

Speaking of style guide changes, I've been adding construction as a new section, rather than a subsection. This coincides with the splitting of construction out of the Crafting template, and its rework in game. Are we happy for this to be added to the style guide? It would be inserted directly below Crafting, and has the same subheader names How it's made and What it makes

@languid kayak @digital helm @naive imp and editors

[proud cobalt]

At a quick glance, when fired it's name is mug, and the mug article name is taken, so it would need to be integrated into the article, or a new seperate page made

[languid kayak]

These should probably be split too, for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:TrophyGold_Model.png and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:TrophySilver_Model.png

[digital helm]

I don't think it's called "fired" just "clay" https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mug_(ceramic)

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mug_(ceramic) yeah

is this this model though? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MugClayFired_Model.png

The current one links to https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Upload&wpDestFile=MugClay_Model.png

[digital helm]

I agree. But I think it should be Building instead of Construction. Since we have "Crafting" and "Building" in-game

[proud cobalt]

Oh that's probably better than, construction was already in use as a subheader, id be happy to sort out the changeover for that

[digital helm]

I don't know if it's that model, but it should be called MugClay_Model

    model MugClay
    {
        mesh = Mug,
            texture = WorldItems/Mug_Fired,

        attachment Bip01_Prop2
        {
            offset = 0.0169 0.0412 -0.0369,
            rotate = 170.7252 46.9881 -167.2955,
            scale = 0.7920,
        }
    }

[digital helm]

Yeah, any tile that was 'placed' was called construction, since we had nothing in-game

[proud cobalt]

There you go, we've made a page for it, might have to look at doing something with the item Id dictionary for recipes like that

[digital helm]

Oh, yeah, just noticed the product just links to Mug

[proud cobalt]

Oh another thing, we need concensus on whether about should go before or after the Infobox. Personally I prefer it under, same with the quote template.

@digital helm @languid kayak @naive imp and editors again 😄

[digital helm]

I think under. Same as quote

[languid kayak]

@sage badge maybe you could verify? I want to add the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:MugClayFired_Model.png to the page and it seems it'd be https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mug_(ceramic) but the name of a model slightly differs?

also some talk just popped, I don't think we need an infobox for that? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki_talk:Userboxes @digital helm

Activity is subjective, and they'de become outdated really quick

[digital helm]

Not entirely sure how you're currently do it, but you can do:

name = utility.get_name(item_id, item_data) #item_data is optional here, so add it if known
page = utility.get_page(item_id, name) #name is optional, it's a fallback if the page can't be found
link = utlity.format_link(name, page)

Then just use link in the output. format_link() formats it as [[page|name]] or [[page]] if page == name, and also adds language_code to page if language_code isn't en

[digital helm]

For this reason I don't think it's needed. There are ways to automate it by looking at if they've edited recently (would need to look into if that can be checked in-wiki), otherwise use a bot. Could be useful, but you can also just check their edits to see if they're active

@proud cobalt trendsetter

[proud cobalt]

These are my changes. Building template redlink right now for obvious reasons

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Help:Style_guide&diff=874007&oldid=873933

[proud cobalt]

What can I say

[proud cobalt]

I think it's a given if you have an edit you are a wiki editor. No need to segregate 'active' editors. Everyone who contributes is a part of the community.

[digital helm]

Looks good. I've swapped the order of about and quote, since quote would be part of the content

[proud cobalt]

Thanks, was debating on that

40k edits by next week that's the goal 💪 B42 got nothing on me

[digital helm]

You'll be overtaking @languid kayak soon

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/scared-seth-rogen-dale-denton-pineapple-express-looking-behind-gif-16914131

[sage badge]

That should be right, I must've just forgotten about the page for the ceramic mug when uploading that, so the picture just needs a name change

[digital helm]

Ah, looks like the wrong mesh. Uses Mug_Tin.fbx instead of Mug.X. So it's the mesh for metal mugs

Here's Mug.X. Notice the handle. Unfired and Fired

[sage badge]

ooh, you meant the actual mesh, oops

yeah, I screwed up there

[digital helm]

I think Faal meant the texture, but I noticed this when checking 😄

[sage badge]

I must've just not noticed the .x file, the two different filetypes is so annoying sometimes

I have a todo list of models I need to make renders for, I can replace it with the proper model when I get back to making renders if someone else doesn't get it before

[digital helm]

I'll do it now, I've got it open

[digital helm]

Also the mug textures in 2 different folders 😩

[sage badge]

the file organization is very confusing sometimes, just the nature of building off of updates without reorganizing things properly I guess

I'll get back to doing model renders soon aswell, got sidetracked with a lot of stuff and my own personal blender projects

[languid kayak]

but I have the bot too!
(oh wait)

[languid kayak]

Still great work on models. I categorized them all, it's nice seeing them on the wiki, especially as I wasn't really putting much time into b42 yet 😛 Playing on a controller with wife or alone is not that fun 😄

[digital helm]

I've added a list of hotbar slots https://pzwiki.net/wiki/AttachmentsProvided which has the attachments that use it, and a list of items that provide it. Each slot can be linked to
Also a list of the attachment types https://pzwiki.net/wiki/AttachmentType which has the hotbar slot they're used in and the items that use it. Each attachment can be linked to

I think a dedicated Hotbar page would be ideal, but for now it's on the item script parameter pages, and redirects to AttachmentsProvided.

I'll also update the item infobox a bit to link to these

[proud cobalt]

Yeah CalvyBot recently hit 50% of all edits on the wiki

[flint vapor]

Bruh

[digital helm]

To improve this, table rows that are linked to will now be highlighted (anywhere, not just here).
To do this, just add the id attribute to the table row marks |-
E.g. |- id="some-row" then link to it with an anchor link, like: [[Some page#some-row]]

Makes this page a lot easier to navigate https://pzwiki.net/wiki/BodyLocation#Jacket_Down

[proud cobalt]

That's sick

[languid kayak]

We could do the same for tag page

[digital helm]

I'll do that now

Done https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item_tag#tag-BakingFat

This page should probably be moved back to Tags at some point too. Would need to update some automated links first though

[proud cobalt]

Any objections if I go ahead and respond to them and delete the pages? @languid kayak too

[digital helm]

Not from me

[lucid junco]

Ai taking our jobs

[languid kayak]

Maybe? Though the more we go into auto-generated tables based on the game files, what about Item list and Tile list? Those are kinda similar to Items and Furniture (ex Tiles) pages.

[digital helm]

Oh, no, the reason was because Tags is the item script parameter. I think keeping Item and Tile/Furniture is fine

[languid kayak]

ah, that's why. Okay

@flint vapor is the (Modding project) part in each of these names of pages in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Modding_projects even needed? I think we won't have collisions for most if not all pages? And PZEventDoc and PZEventStubs already lack it.

[flint vapor]

Actually I had done that for DebugMenu

Figured some of these would be very confusing and so I added the descriptor to all of them

Some would possibly clash with potentially official stuff

So I had made that so at there is 0 confusing with things within the game

[proud cobalt]

Done

[flint vapor]

All of these can basically clash with potential officially named stuff

imo

The events one will clash with the API events

Things with script will clash with [[Scripts]]

Mod Manager is fairly obvious why it will clash

So maybe not all of them need it but a massive part of those do

[proud cobalt]

I think they should have descriptors, but maybe just (modding) would suffice?

[flint vapor]

Well no

That's the whole point I made

This clashes with modding related stuff

All this I just described right above your message ...

[proud cobalt]

Are these the names of different community modding projects? I don't think that came across very well. I thought you were naming them for the wiki modding project

[flint vapor]

These are modding projects by the community

[proud cobalt]

Especially because one of them is called "Community modding projects (modding project)"

[flint vapor]

Yea well I can't do shit about that lol

If you got better naming, go on

But Modding projects describes perfectly what these are

Community Modding Project is a Modding Project made by Chuck

Starlit is by Albion

Doggy's API is an API I made for me and other modders

Project Zomboid Script Support is a tool developped by a guy to help writing mods

Same with Zed Script and Umbrella

These are not official projects, they are projects by the community for the community

Or big projects that are more or less open but introduce something for other modders

[proud cobalt]

It's ok bud, it's not a personal attack. I don't know the modding scene so I don't know they are names of projects by different people. Hence I asked a simple question

[flint vapor]

I'm explaining what these are, never took it as a personal attack

[languid kayak]

Maybe, also should it be Modding or modding?

Anyway, I added them all toe {{Navbox modding}} too, but I don't get an idea when something is a modding project? I know you went through that before, but I was tired enough to barely grasp it 😄 Maybe I should go over that message and re-read it again

[flint vapor]

For your first question idk

The descriptor should be low case ?

[digital helm]

Capital if it's a proper noun, lowercase if it's a common noun

[flint vapor]

it's common then

[digital helm]

I was confused too. I think modding project makes the msot sense with this

[flint vapor]

👍

[flint vapor]

The whole idea is that some of these projects get mentioned quite a few times because of how useful and how used they are by the community, such as Umbrella and some functionalities which are custom events added by some mods that get listed in Lua events

So like we did for the Java documentation, instead of making copies over and over of things we keep mentioning, those pages are here to not have one place with the same informations that we link. But I figured instead of making pages just for Umbrella or the Community Modding Projects for example then we should simply make pages in general that come and document any community projects

So it's half modding half history pages in a way

At least for now these are projects that are active or currently used

Maybe in the future (in a long time) some of these pages might need to be recategorized if no longer accurate to the modding as they become unusable ?

[digital helm]

btw @flint vapor you can use the {{Note}} template for notes like here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Community_Modding_Projects_(Modding_project)
Saves you having to do the styling.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Note

[flint vapor]

Hell yeah I was sure something existed for that but I never took the time to look for it

I also use "Important !" in red, is there something similar too ?

Thank you for sharing that anyway

Oh wait

I just read the page 😅

Ok there's a warn nice

That's cool

[digital helm]

Just changed it so you don't need to include content. So {{Note|This is content of the Note.}} instead of {{Note|content=This is content of the Note.}}

[flint vapor]

Nice !

That makes it even easier to use, great change

[digital helm]

np

Mostly used for non-content stuff, but seemed useful for modding

[languid kayak]

Umbrella is kinda covered in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Visual_Studio_Code though, isn't it?

Also, I kinda guess that "modding projects" while may be mods, are more like frameworks to build another mods for and/or tools created by community?

Keep in mind that some now official PZ tools started as community ones too kinda 🙂

[languid kayak]

Yeah, makes style more uniform I guess too 😄

[flint vapor]

No that's in fact the reason why I made the modding project for Umbrella, because it was starting to get mentioned in different places, and also linking it to people involved linking this specific section

So the addons in the VSCode page are instead listed in an Addons section now

[languid kayak]

Long overdue I guess; was so simple fix and I always sufferent that too 😄 I think there are some othee mboxes that could use the same

[flint vapor]

There's also the problem that technically Umbrella was usable in other IDEs

And yes Modding projects are useless to players, they are only useful to modders

[languid kayak]

oh, that's neat then. I don't mind having Umbrella being a proper tool page, like TileZed or WorldEd

[flint vapor]

Which is why in comparison to discussions we had about making pages for specific mods was a problem, this here is more okay. And it's also why I had asked for the opinion of people about it, here and the modding Discord because I was against pages for specific mods

[flint vapor]

TileZed and WorldEd are official tools no ?

[languid kayak]

yeah

[flint vapor]

Then they aren't the same thing imo

Umbrella is community driven

While official tools are developped by TIS

[languid kayak]

TileZed is a fork of Tiled, and WorldEd was done by a core TIS devs from the beginning I think

[flint vapor]

Tho sometimes have forks

Yea

I think forks should be modding project

I think we should make the distinction between things that are official and those that are community driven is important

[languid kayak]

but tools that are no longer relevant, sometimes had different origins. Like TranslationZed was done by Connall while ItemZed was a side tool done by Turbo (as a TIS employee, but still)

[flint vapor]

[languid kayak]

We had other tools that are no longer relevant, like CostumeEd that was used in the beginning by Binky

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tools_and_That_and_Things

[flint vapor]

I don't know shit about the mapping tools that's the problem. But I get why it's thin line between being official tools but also community ones

[languid kayak]

Still available on http://projectzomboid.com/tools/CostumeEdv1.zip it seems

[flint vapor]

Not sure anyone uses it tho now, especially as there are pixel art tools already out there

[languid kayak]

not really, no

[flint vapor]

I'm still waiting for the mapping community to start documenting shit tbf

That would help greatly

[languid kayak]

Also, as modding as a project evolved as much, you could also utilize subprojects on the modding project itself, similar to how other projects evolved

[flint vapor]

I'm not sure I understood that sorry

[languid kayak]

Yeah, wanted to link to examples but was too lazy to look for them 😄
See https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Lore#Subprojects https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_History#Subprojects or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Build_42_Update#Subprojects

[flint vapor]

Didn't we make the decision to move Hydrocraft into Project History ?

I was pretty sure we had moved pages about specific mods elsewhere

So I'm quite confused, perhaps we didn't ?

Because I was writing a section about it on the summary, checked and realized that we actually didn't do that

And yet I remember us discussing doing that

[languid kayak]

It's in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_History tasks, but no one got to actually reworking it

Though keep in mind that Hydrocraft still does see some limited activity, so someone might actually pick it up to work with b42, at least there were some folks discussing that on their Discord

[flint vapor]

Literally no one works on Hydrocraft. The only mod I've seen linked to it is the wood cart or whatever it's called

Its assets are so old now that it's better to start over for any mods

It's B40 ... like come on

[languid kayak]

It switched hands, it was updated to b41, and saw some discussion about b42 #963714784564498444 message (for those who are on the Discord)

[flint vapor]

I'm fairly certain @flat sun mentioned the mod having being updated to B41 but it's an old version

The mod doesn't work at all in the stable version

[languid kayak]

https://github.com/robotex140/Hydrocraft (it's linked in the page)

[flat sun]

as far as i know no version of it is really that well maintained, but there is basically always someone making some effort for it

[flint vapor]

And out of fairness, I still do not agree with it being in a section about mods. I don't think I need to bring up the argument of what makes it fair for Hydrocraft to be on the wiki while no other mods. And even then how is that fair to chose x y z mod and how do you even define the limit of which mod is accepted

I agree the history part of it, if the mod was what quickstarted something, like Rimworld with the Vanilla Expanded mods or whatever it's called I remember these mods being massive and quickstarting a whole genre of mod creation

But that's it

The page should not be about the newly maintened versions even if there actually is one, it should just mention it

Like for the Modding projects even that I do not agree with using the wiki to explain how to use the mod. You can but the point of it is to document tools and projects FOR modders

[languid kayak]

Seems it was played with 41.78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRBnUyMH3ac

[languid kayak]

basically that's the current stage of the page 😄

[flint vapor]

Also that's 2 to 3 years old

[languid kayak]

Just a link to a most recent repo on top

[flat sun]

well, so is 41.78 🤷‍♀️

[languid kayak]

yup

[flint vapor]

Nvm lol

[languid kayak]

Nothing much to be done with Hydrocraft at this point, the page is not using any old templates, not using much screenshot and if someone's bored, can revamp it if needed. Currently a lowest task in the project history 😄

Will probably stay as is with the note for a while, the info on wiki may not be up to date with the b41 fork

[flint vapor]

But the page shouldn't be in Mods !!!

It shouldn't be in Modding !

The page does not bring any informations for modders !

It's the problem I have with it

[languid kayak]

Welp, there's nothing else in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Mods

[flint vapor]

It is not a tool, it is not informational on mod creation

[flint vapor]

Yes, that category should not exist in mods

[languid kayak]

We though of many getting rid of the category, which may as well do if everyone agreeds. The old mods are gone now (Silent Hill/ru, Greenfire and Modded Armor/Weapons)

[flint vapor]

Modding*

[languid kayak]

Changed to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:PZwiki then, the same category https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Undeniable.info and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Project_Zomboid_Map_Project are (not ideal, but we don't really have idea what else to keep them for now)

btw @flint vapor do we want a page for Texture? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Texture

[flint vapor]

Texture is a java object

Sooooo

If you want we can have a descriptor in the name

[languid kayak]

nah, if it's a java object then fine, and if there's no collision, we'd have to set up a redirect anyway, so best to not have a descriptor

[quartz bear]

zombie/core/textures/Texture

most epic name

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/GrapplerLetGo https://pzwiki.net/wiki/GrappleGrabCollisionCheck https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnStopGrapple What are these @flint vapor? Lua objects? Java objects? Something else? I'd add them to appropriate navbox

[flint vapor]

Events

Lua events

[languid kayak]

Thanks! and in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/CraftRecipe_(scripts) anything to prevent it simply being called CraftRecipe?

[languid kayak]

oh right, we don't have a navbox for those yet 😄

There are still pages in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Lua_Events (spread between https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Obsolete_Lua_Events and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Current_Lua_Events) – what are we gonna do with them? Update manually? Remove?

@proud cobalt I noticed the Electric Wires were removed from non-English page, was it a name change or an old page cleanups to make space for new ones? Either way; should we remove the redirects too then? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:BrokenRedirects

[flat sun]

imo these pages are of no value, a couple are duplicates that we have newer pages for and the rest were not even events to begin with but hooks (i don't think the original event bot author even knew about hooks and got confused)

[flint vapor]

I don't know if we should ? That's a lot of pages so idk, maybe ?

[flint vapor]

Yeah we can delete them I guess

[flat sun]

the two duplicates are there because the original author typo'd their names 😭

[quartz bear]

hey, they tried their best

im sure of it

[languid kayak]

yeah, since there's a lot, that's why I didn't yet so far

[languid kayak]

Thanks! So just remove them altogether?

[flat sun]

that's what i'd recommend

[flint vapor]

Wait what duplicate ?

[flint vapor]

The obsolete ones I think that's fine

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnMultiTriggerNPCEvents vs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnMultiTriggerNPCEvent it seems

and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnTriggerNPCEvents vs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnTriggerNPCEvent

@flint vapor please check if anything is worth in the old pages; if no I'll just remove the two indeed

[flint vapor]

I'll check that out but most of these pages seem to be empty for the most part

Or at least there doesn't seem to be descriptions and shit

Yea

Nothing of interest in the obsolete events

[languid kayak]

Well, for these two, they are mostly the same, they just link to javadocs and descriptions are different

[languid kayak]

So the 8 pages from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Obsolete_Lua_Events are good to go too?

[flint vapor]

Yea tho I'm confused as this isn't the category with all the obsolete events that I thought we were talking about

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Obsolete_Lua_events

Thought we were talking about these no ?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, those are 8 + 2 pages that weren't covered by your pages you sent to create to Calvy last month or so

[flat sun]

oh my god, the capitalisation is different 😭

[flint vapor]

Lmao

[flint vapor]

Bcs these are hooks yeah

They aren't events that's why they aren't defined

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/AddXP this one seems to have links to JavaDocs for example I see, do we want to keep the links from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnMultiTriggerNPCEvents and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnMultiTriggerNPCEvents moved to the proper pages?

[flint vapor]

I'm not sure what you mean

[languid kayak]

yeah, maybe confusing example, sometimes the pages link to JavaDocs or other docs, not sure if we want to keep the links in the proper pages?

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=OnTriggerNPCEvents&action=edit&section=3 vs https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=OnTriggerNPCEvent&action=edit&section=3

if not, I'll just remove the duplicates

[flat sun]

i didn't link lua primitive types (string and table here) since there aren't really pages like that for lua and linking the java ones (as they do here) doesn't really give much relevant information (especially for KahluaTable, literally nothing on that linked page is relevant to lua)

if doggy wants to link them though that's fine, but as i gave him the links it currently uses that's the justification for them being omitted

[flint vapor]

Eh idk

[languid kayak]

I guess at worst you can add them later on, so I'll just go and remove the two mispells then. Not sure we need a redirect?

Speaking of, not sure when I'll get to it but these redirects are probably due to be removed by now https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:AllPages?from=Modding%3A&to=Modding%3B&namespace=0 and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:AllPages?from=Lua+Events%2F&to=Lua+Events\&namespace=0

Should probably be bottable for @proud cobalt?

[flint vapor]

Not sure what I'm looking at ngl

[languid kayak]

the list of redirects? Those are old pages redirecting from Modding: and Lua Events/ subpages

[languid kayak]

Anyway, I changed the two to redirect now, so it's just 8 obsolete ones remaining https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Lua_Events (or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Obsolete_Lua_Events) is listing them. Either they have to be removed, or manually changed. These seems to not be a typo, but some are apparently hooks, right?

[flat sun]

these are all hooks, except OnPlayerCancelTimedAction which is not in any version of the code i've seen, so i don't know what it is (probably removed before my time)

[languid kayak]

added on 23 November 2021 apparently: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Lua_Events/OnPlayerCancelTimedAction&action=history

[flat sun]

that's interesting, i think b41 was already stable by then so i'm surprised to see something from that time removed: i was modding at that time but don't think i was diving that deep yet

[languid kayak]

but it was deprecated even back then I think https://github.com/quarantin/pzwiki/blob/main/data/txt/41.65/deprecated.txt#L20

[proud cobalt]

Name changes in B42 + Double redirect fixer. I'll get rid of them

[proud cobalt]

What exactly needs to be done?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, noticed that the double redirects are fixed, figured it'd be you 🙂

[languid kayak]

I think at that point these are just good to be removed? There's an edit history that was not moved since you did the renames by copy-pasting as you didn't have the admin rights for the bot, but these are not really relevant anymore.

[languid kayak]

as I go through changes for tomorrow's summary, are these enough to warrant bumping version to b42? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Red_Dot_Sight&curid=6041&diff=822835&oldid=813985 and https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Long_Blade&curid=37663&diff=826727&oldid=435503 (this one is judgding by description)?

[proud cobalt]

RDS please leave, i will update it when i get to R. For long blade i wouldn't even include the prior to build 42 or anything after it.

[digital helm]

Yes. Although I don't think we need to include 'prior to build 42', I think we can just rephrase that

[digital helm]

Do we want to split these? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Christmas_Ornament
I've just included the item id in the infobox for now @proud cobalt

[proud cobalt]

This is one where i dont think so, all same name, all same stats. Only downside is all the location, code, history, on the same page

[digital helm]

Maybe eventually we can get all that info combined in some way to look nicer, but that'll be fine for now. This is a very minor item that won't get many visits

[proud cobalt]

Template:Construction moved to Template:Building
Template:Construction list moved to Template:Building list

[digital helm]

Thanks, I'll update in the summary

[proud cobalt]

Just as a heads up, I've been reformatting the evolved recipe template to be more standardised, like the Infobox. E.g.
Old: {{Template|1|2|3}}
New: {{Template |1 |2 |3 }}
This will also coinside with evolved recipes being added to the auto updater, but no ETA on that

[languid kayak]

Yeah, kinda the point of us splitting 😄 But maybe indeed we'll come to something nice browsable along the way

[languid kayak]

At this point we basically only miss from the things that are autoparsed

• Evolved recipe
• Moveables
• Outfits
  and that'd be it currently? Other than maybe parsing more item lists Vail's been working on?

[proud cobalt]

Moveables should get its own updater, will come after B42 tiles are sorted out.

Outfits I hadn't thought of

[languid kayak]

I'll see that in game later, but I think the icons for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fast_Metabolism and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Slow_Metabolism should be different? Does it even have an icon?

[languid kayak]

@flat sun was it removed in Build 42? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Trait&curid=851&diff=850407&oldid=850405

[slender wing]

yeah, they don’t have any icons. i left those there as placeholders when i created the page as i wasn’t sure what should go there

[languid kayak]

seems so though https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Clumsy&curid=18311&diff=850395&oldid=850393

[languid kayak]

I removed the icon then, similar to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Custom_Occupation (which should be updated to b42 too :D)

[languid kayak]

Though OTOH https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Graceful&type=revision&diff=873221&oldid=850403 @digital helm?

[quartz bear]

Doesn't

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Metagame&curid=2875&diff=850575&oldid=788795 – is this b41 feature or b42?

same here https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Building_stories&curid=49587&diff=850577&oldid=649335

Also pinging @serene sage

[quartz bear]

mood

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt can https://pzwiki.net/wiki/DriedFood_(tag) be bumped to b42? Iassume it exists there

[proud cobalt]

Both are B42 features

[proud cobalt]

Weird, it should have been done in 42.3.0. I'm at work, @digital helm might have them.

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Equipment/it&action=edit https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Container&curid=11394&diff=850983&oldid=822181 links are all sadly all wrongly formatted 😩 Not sure I'll fix it immediately, so leaving for now @digital helm @proud cobalt FYI

oh nvm, container was reverted

[proud cobalt]

Lol I just went through the container changes from then until correct, it's a story to follow

[proud cobalt]

What's wrong with equipment/it? Other than it doesn't link to the Italian pages?

[languid kayak]

@digital helm might be a question you might have answer to? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template_talk%3AInfobox_location&type=revision&diff=864979&oldid=418515

[languid kayak]

links

{{:Contenitori d'acqua}}
{{:Sorgenti luminose}}
{{:Tools}}
{{:Household}}
{{:Camping}}
{{:Trappole}}
{{:Comunicazioni}}

and below

*{{ll|Carpenteria}}
*{{ll|Contenitore}}
*{{ll|Cucina}}
*{{ll|Elettricità}}
*{{ll|Primo Soccorso}}
*{{ll|Pesca}}
*{{ll|Chiavi}}
*{{ll|Mecccanica}}
*{{ll|Metallurgia}}
*{{ll|Trapping}}

Also kinda shame where I find folks translated pages that are scheduled to be overhauled at one point 😛

[languid kayak]

I reworded https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Moodle#Bad_Smell but what is actual name in the game and I think it should be moved to the current ones?

[digital helm]

Updated

[digital helm]

Not sure. I think I just added a bunch of parameters from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_building that seemed like they could've been useful, and left it up to @naive imp and others as to which ones were actually used.
I guess it could be the classification from the map key?
For the others, their explanation is mentioned in the doc https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_location#General

Thoughts on this, then I can reply

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Vehicle&curid=10651&diff=873225&oldid=822573 holy crap, I didn't realize the Build 42 finally added cig lighter to vehicles! IIRC it was one of the early features I requested back when vehicles were added

[digital helm]

Updated them. They'll all be automated eventually

[digital helm]

Should call Build 42 the smoking update with all the smoking changes

[languid kayak]

yet no Fire

[digital helm]

code name is NoxiousSmell
"Bad Smell" is just level 1

    -- NoxiousSmell
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_lvl1 = "Bad Smell",
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_lvl2 = "Awful Odor",
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_lvl3 = "Overwhelming Stench",
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_lvl4 = "Deadly Fumes",
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_desc_lvl1 = "Pee-ew. Something smells.",
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_desc_lvl2 = "Eurgh. Something smells awful.",
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_desc_lvl3 = "A vile stink makes you feel ill.",
    Moodles_NoxiousSmell_desc_lvl4 = "You can't breathe. Get away from here!",

[proud cobalt]

I gotta add info about this to appropriate clothing items too

[digital helm]

Is toxic gas added yet?

I see it's also used for corpse sickness

[proud cobalt]

Don't think so. Just corpse sickness

Could be for generator smoke though? Havnt checked

[digital helm]

Oh, maybe

    public boolean isProtectedFromToxic(boolean _boolean) {
        for (int _int = 0; _int < this.getWornItems().size(); _int++) {
            if (this.getWornItems().getItemByIndex(_int) instanceof Clothing clothing) {
                if (clothing.hasTag("SCBA") && clothing.isActivated() && clothing.hasTank() && clothing.getUsedDelta() > 0.0F) {
                    return true;
                }

                if (clothing.hasTag("GasMask") && clothing.hasFilter() && clothing.getUsedDelta() > 0.0F) {
                    if (_boolean) {
                        clothing.drainGasMask(0.01F);
                    }

                    return true;
                }
            }
        }

        return false;
    }

[digital helm]

Yeah, generator. Sets a building to toxic
IsoGenerator

                if (!this.getSquare().getProperties().Is(IsoFlagType.exterior) && this.getSquare().getBuilding() != null) {
                    this.getSquare().getBuilding().setToxic(false);
                    this.getSquare().getBuilding().setToxic(this.isActivated());
                }

[proud cobalt]

There you go. Info will Have to go up somewhere

Probably on the generator page

[digital helm]

And the Noxious smell page

[languid kayak]

neat!

[digital helm]

working on it now btw

[digital helm]

Renamed to Noxious Smell and moved to active moodles. It's a little confusing because it's a unique moodle with 2 'types', so I rewrote for clarity. A lot of this may eventually be able to get moved to the Noxious Smell page

[serene sage]

both are B42 pretty sure

[languid kayak]

neat. Is there any new moodle that is still missing from the page? If not, only the dedicated page would be made, a gallery of old ones added and version bumped.

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @serene sage Been thinking long about it, should we now update knox event/ ingame story timeline?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Knox_Event

[serene sage]

yeah we should, we got some more lore from the new radio/tv channels

[lucid junco]

We have sport events, celebrations, music festival, ect

Mall shooting

4th of July

You kbow

Regular American stuff

Im puzzled on how we should handle it though

Maybe something like
Section with stuff before the event
Section with stuff during the event(maybe make days separate?)

[lucid junco]

So mad that tis had the opportunity to call it Jerrys bait shop

You know the place

https://tenor.com/view/jerry's-bait-shop-albuquerque-weird-al-gif-2172035835954996669

And they didnt

[languid kayak]

Okay <@&1205891296565268520> – there was no Thursdoid this month, but the monthly wiki summary fills the gap again! We may get a summary from @naive imp later on as well, so do check it up later as well, but till then, here's the link to the current one! https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:News#February_2025_summary

[vital cairn]

It fills the thursdoid-sized gap in our hearts

[dim oxide]

Good

[flat sun]

it looks like the effect on the chance to trip after vaulting was removed, but the increased/decreased chance to trip from a lunging zombie is still there

actually my bad, i still see code for even that: i know people were talking about this change so maybe this code is unused

the animation code like this can be pretty difficult to analyse since a lot of it isn't actually directly triggered by code - but it still looks used to me

[languid kayak]

I'm going back to this (yet again), are Hooks documented on the wiki? https://github.com/demiurgeQuantified/PZEventDoc gemerates hooks and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZEventDoc says it was the tool used to generate Lua Events.

Other than that, indeed searching for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnPlayerCancelTimedAction yeilds no results on Google, but the page looks similar to how other deprecated event looks like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/OnPlayerSetSafehouse

If it'd be a typo, then I can't find a similar one…

[flat sun]

strictly pzeventdoc wasn't used to generate the wiki pages, doggy wrote a separate script for it, it just uses my data - i don't think doggy did anything with the hooks data, which is fair because (despite being a feature specifically added to support mods) they are really not very useful

[languid kayak]

It's deprecated in 41.56 https://github.com/quarantin/pzwiki/blob/main/data/txt/41.56/deprecated.txt#L17 but not the previous version listed there https://github.com/quarantin/pzwiki/blob/main/data/txt/40.43/deprecated.txt – it's listed https://github.com/quarantin/pzwiki/blob/main/data/txt/40.43/events.txt#L109 and in another txt data from the repo

[languid kayak]

so hooks are not listed in the wiki anyway? So these could be removed then?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Attack
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/AutoDrink
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/CalculateStats
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/UseItem
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/WeaponHitCharacter
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/WeaponSwing
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/WeaponSwingHitPoint
as you said these are all hooks and wiki doesn't have all other hooks covered anyway?

These four pages link to each other btw:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Attack
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/WeaponHitCharacter
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/WeaponSwing
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/WeaponSwingHitPoint

All were probably from pre animation update, so not relevant starting from b41 anyway

[flint vapor]

I mean, we should cover hooks anyway tbf

[flat sun]

yeah, they're presented as events here so they're misleading (the code blocks are not valid code at all)
you may want hook pages on the wiki but i can definitely see why doggy didn't bother with them, it would make sense to delete the current ones imo but if you wanted to keep them in the meantime instead i wouldn't really care either way

[flint vapor]

One day we'll have to cover these hooks anyway

[flat sun]

i agree but i don't think the pages as they are really have anything worth preserving

[flint vapor]

They should be noted as inaccurate

For now

Or just straight up wrong

[languid kayak]

They should either be deleted or better yet, reworked especially if we cover https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Obsolete_Lua_events but if they don't exist in the current code I assume they can't be generated by @flint vapor's tools.

Maybe @proud cobalt could provide a relevant old build? Though we'd have to know which one they are from 😄

[languid kayak]

I wonder if they were wrong though? The previous editor got those names from somewhere after all, judging by the repo

Maybe I can manually update them then, to update to the new format and categories at least and just slap {{Verify}} to them?

[flat sun]

what's weird is they aren't actually obsolete, i don't know why they're marked as such

[timber quartz]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/476225287953055745/1148995391778459688/togif.gif

[flat sun]

actually i reckon they used some script to gather the event names + check obsolete

all hooks would come up in a search for addEvent(name) (the devs definitely copy pasted the events code and forgot to change the name) but they would not come up in search for triggerEvent since that one is properly renamed

those would be reasonable ways to detect all events + detect if an event is obsolete or not

[languid kayak]

What can I do is to manually update them so at least they match the new format (syntax highlight and categories mostly), I'm not touching the comments and slapping {{Unverified}} plus marking the version as 41.65 on it https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=OnPlayerCancelTimedAction&type=revision&diff=875033&oldid=528065 until we figure out what to do with them further

[languid kayak]

These can be found under https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version_41.65 now unless someone finds a way/script to update them

as that was the last known version they were from

and have to be manually updated in case something changes again, but at least they use the new format and categories for now

Some still are 42.0.2 so they'd be bumped eventually I think anyway https://pzwiki.net/wiki/AcceptedFactionInvite

[fickle scarab]

me

[quartz bear]

this part fucking kills me, it's almost like i didn't do that voluntarily

[digital helm]

Sorry 😄 wanted to give some credit to @lucid junco too

[quartz bear]

no need for an apology

it wasn't offensive, just entertaining

after all, he does need some recognition on that matter

if it wasn't for him I might have as well died from boredom

[digital helm]

Maybe he deserves even more credit then

[quartz bear]

technically I never finished the little code adventure

if I were to dig through every single trait there is I could possibly find a few more undocumented effects of some of them

but is that really necessary?

[languid kayak]

of course!

Though TBF, traits are a whole big mistery

I learned from I think Retanaru that unconspicious might not work at all, not sure if that's was true and is/was fixed yet. Also a lot of people skip keen Eagle Eye as the visibility effects are (were?) barely noticable, though it's all based of one maybe two videos off of YouTube

[languid kayak]

👀

But yeah, it was all different things I couldn't (well, didn't want to) slap together 😄

[languid kayak]

Now that's an old version 😄

[quartz bear]

"barely noticeable" would go a long way if the math said otherwise

which... I can only really advocate for math

regarding unconspicious, I can look into that I guess

but I'm going to sleep and someone will surely beat me to it by the time I wake up

and I'm not perfect, the trait might not work but still be used in code.

I won't know

[serene sage]

just swap the 2 and the 4 and it becomes up to date, easy 👍

[proud cobalt]

Oops

[lucid junco]

If you are still dying from it, there are some things that would require digging through code to confirm

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Metagame#Helicopter

[digital helm]

From what I can tell, if inconspicuous doesn't work or has no noticeable effect, then conspicuous probably doesn't either, since one is -0.2 and the other is +0.2 for a multiplier. Not about to start diving into all of that maths though

[proud cobalt]

Free trait imo, never noticed a difference with it

That's purely feels though

[flat sun]

in b42 it doesn't feel like anything but cover matters at all anymore

it sounded like from the thursdoids that the whole new stealth system was added in the last couple weeks before release and wasn't even planned at all so it wouldn't surprise me that it's not super robust

[lucid junco]

Huh

Petting animals removes all panic and anxiety

[flint vapor]

Stonks

[lucid junco]

also for some reason I get 3 nightmares per 12 days I survive, which is a whole lot more than I got in b41, which was near 0 per all of my playthrough

[languid kayak]

I actually noticed that too, though I wasn't sure as I played MP with wife with sleep disabled

[lucid junco]

The only reason I found out about petting is getting a nightmare out of the blue while sleeping in sheep shed or how its called

So there are definitely some shenanigans happening with chances

[flint vapor]

Just wanted to share how satisfying the image fits here

Wait so we have a video template now right ?

Ah yeah found it

Sadly I can't use thumb in that case because the images might not align with the corresponding issues. If you guys have better solutions, don't hesitate to share

Also funny that it literally can't render the caption on the image that I need to have a caption on

Oh man that page is going to be annoying to format lmao

[echo thistle]

the skill book list could use with some tidying up. it's not the easiest to find from a glance without using Ctrl-F

it would also be helpful to separate the Make Set of book recipes into individual skills instead of listing each one. the collapsible recipe is a tad too cumbersome. this would be a good spot to use gifs here instead

on that note, the category page for skill books is nice, easily readable

[digital helm]

The item navbox will need to be reworked. It hasn't been updated to build 42 yet (other than the names), which is why this is a lot harder to read. The book names are a lot longer and not as simple as they used to be.
Definitely something we'll need to look at. There's also more than twice as many items in build 42 than there were in build 41, which will need to be added.

[digital helm]

The recipes are still very new and a wip. They're currently just at a 'working' state, pending some backend changes. Definitely something I agree with and is on our radar (or mine at least)

Appreciate the feedback

[digital helm]

If you spot anything that would be nice to have for the video template, please let me know. Currently there's no working example other than the one on the template doc, so I'm not entirely sure of its usage

[fallen wren]

suggestion, have all each skill books in one page, where a certain skill, like carpentry, will have info for each skill book lvl in same page

so the skill book list on that navbox would just be all of the skill names, and clicking on it would link to a page containing info for it

[digital helm]

I fear that'd be an unnecessary duplication of information, as we currently have them listed here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skill_books and on the individual item's page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Agriculture_IV:_"The_Science_of_Crop_Genetics_and_Yields"#Variants

We could do something similar with the navbox itself though, having a subsection, otherwise shorten the names to just the beginning "Agriculture I".

We were hoping to get it automated, but page names are still changing along with higher priority tasks needing to be done. This'll all need to be noted for once we end up doing it

[slender wing]

huh.. i just randomly got a tracking level while fighting zombies. need to look into that skill and create the page for it as im now very intrigued lol

[lucid junco]

All* of the logos are now extracted and Ill soon post the straightened version

[slender wing]

ah i see tracking is mostly unfinished for right now which makes sense. ill do a very bare-bones page of whats currently out there but itll need to be updated a lot im sure

[digital helm]

Maybe you accidentally stepped in some animal poop while fighting 🤷

[languid kayak]

Videos are in the old blog posts, I added them there

[digital helm]

Oh cool 👍

[languid kayak]

Live examples are most easily found by finding these in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Video_thumbnails

The only issue for me is unable to center them properly 😛 In the end I didn't bother, but when I did try to center them, the text got centered as well

And if we'd want to mimic YouTube (or similar sites) embeed behaviour, I think then the names wouldn't be centered either

[digital helm]

I had that trouble too when trying to get them to look nice on mobile. Ended up just making them scale 100% when below a certain screen width

[digital helm]

Not sure what you mean here 🤔

Oh, nevermind. When you center the video, the text gets centered too, is what you were referring to?

[flint vapor]

I haven't used it actually 🫠

There's a place with a video in the animation guide I believe

I'll try to use the new template there if I remember to do so lol

[languid kayak]

yeah tried that in https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=First_Ever_In-Game_Footage!&oldid=825607 and https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=First_Ever_In-Game_Footage!&oldid=825609 but I changed the name of the files since

[languid kayak]

keep in mind that thumbnail currently has to be manually downloaded, I use yt-dlp to get them

[quartz bear]

uhh

PZ uses "Cellular Automaton RNG" from Uncommons

All they say about it is that it's "fast"

Is it uniform? Fuck knows

I would assume so

[lucid junco]

Is code different from b41?

[quartz bear]

getting the demo to run turned out to be very ass to do

[quartz bear]

let's see

[lucid junco]

There is definitely a difference in how rare it feels

[lucid junco]

And Im a bit lazy and don't want to sleep 100 times

[quartz bear]

no code related to the Desensitized trait

that's all the difference

[lucid junco]

Do we have about it on wiki? 👀

[quartz bear]

about the n argument: idfk

[quartz bear]

I would assume not

[lucid junco]

Well, thats another accidental trait check

[quartz bear]

looks like having the Desensitized trait gives you a +5% chance to get a chance to roll for nightmare

(what a dumb system)

right, I never checked the helicopter event

[lucid junco]

You get more nightmares with desensitized?

[quartz bear]

starting with b42, yes

[lucid junco]

Lets goo, even less reasons to pick veteran🔥

[quartz bear]

well if you disable sleep then nothing changes

[lucid junco]

Ptsd is real

[quartz bear]

how cute

I never knew that the helicopter's name is Chopper

now I know

ok so first of all, it looks like the helicopter doesn't have proper manners

and will just teleport near the target

and then conveniently fly to it

idk how far 1000 units is on the map

but it teleports

[lucid junco]

Does it instantly lock onto you?

[quartz bear]

it teleports 1414 units away from you

then makes its way over to you

[lucid junco]

So it will be around you even if you hide

right?

[quartz bear]

It has to choose you as the target first

the helicopter can find you anywhere on the map unless you're indoors or in a forest

also

it looks like the helicopter can generally just find you anywhere

it knows where you are

You can be selected as its target even if you're indoors or in a forest, and it will arrive to you and hover over you for MAX_UNSEEN_SECONDS seconds, even if it doesn't "see" you

[lucid junco]

So, when it spawns, it tries to see for the player target, and if its hidden, it just flies away, and if its not it will teleport to it and hover over?

[quartz bear]

I'll try to explain algorithmically

1. Find any target player on the map
2. Teleport 1414 units away from the target player
3. Move towards the target player (my most default behavior)
4. Did my target die or disappear? Have I been hovering and searching for too long (MAX_BOTHER_SECONDS)? Do some cursed shit related to movement or deactivate if there is no one to be targeted
5. Am I close enough to the target? Hover over it even if I don't see it (I just magically know if I'm close enough or not)
6. I haven't seen the target for MAX_UNSEEN_SECONDS after beginning to hover? Start searching for it
7. When I'm searching, I hover over the spot where I last saw my target and not actively follow it (also refer to step 4)

TL;DR: The helicopter will hover over you even if it doesn't see you for at least MAX_UNSEEN_SECONDS.

It just knows.

For context, MAX_UNSEEN_SECONDS = 15

And MAX_BOTHER_SECONDS = 60

[lucid junco]

So that line is just bollocks

[quartz bear]

I guess so? It depends on what they tried to say

[flat sun]

fast??? 😭 that thing is directly responsible for like half of the game's framerate issues

it's not used here though, Rand.Next is java's standard rng which is a lot faster

[quartz bear]

It doesn't store any kind of information about any of its previous targets, if there's no one to find (i.e. no one is on the server, or everyone is farther than 1 million units away from the helicopter), it will fuck off immediately

I have no idea how far 1 million units is

But it sounds like that's an impossible condition

[flat sun]

actually i'm misremembering - i think rand.next is cellular

[flat sun]

i'd expect it to be unreasonably uniform

[quartz bear]

I'd expect it not to be

at this point

I'll try to get the demo to run

[flat sun]

it's not the kind of thing that's meant to be used for rng in video games, it's designed for security and casinos and crap

that's why it runs so slow

[quartz bear]

But there must be something that changes the helicopter's state externally

Which I didn't research yet

[lucid junco]

Im curious if units is either coords or grid squares

or some obscure pz unit that was not brought to light

[quartz bear]

it should be coords

grid squares wouldn't allow for this kind of precision I would assume

I would assume

it gets the target player's coords

so it should be coords

logic

[lucid junco]

1414 units is then relatively enough

[quartz bear]

mm, well, actually

[quartz bear]

that doesn't seem to be a flat out lie

[lucid junco]

But still I thought that it travels all the way from the corner of the map to the player

not teleport

[quartz bear]

if (this.NightsSurvived == this.HelicopterDay1 && this.TimeOfDay > this.HelicopterTime1Start && this.TimeOfDay < this.HelicopterTime1End && !IsoWorld.instance.helicopter.isActive() && Rand.Next((int)(800.0f * this.getInvMultiplier())) == 0) {
        this.HelicopterTime1Start += (int)0.5f;
        IsoWorld.instance.helicopter.pickRandomTarget();
}

there IS a chance the helicopter will come back on the same day

at least an hour later

depending on how "unlucky" you are

(if you roll the shitty Rand.Next)

I would assume 0.5 is an hour

also don't mind the cast to int here, that's just a fucked up decompile

vf yields this.HelicopterTime1Start = (int)((float)this.HelicopterTime1Start + 0.5F); which is correct

[lucid junco]

(About 4 big chunks away)
So 1 million units is impossible... yet

Maybe we will get an entire rural kentucky one day

And this will be possible

[quartz bear]

so the helicopter will track everyone on the map

[lucid junco]

And everyone outside of the map

Since map boundaries are now larger and seemingly will generate random terrain

Outside of the official defined map

[quartz bear]

idk what kind of time units are used here

maybe 0.5 is half an hour

but that's that

[lucid junco]

What kind of units are usually used?

[quartz bear]

usually, milliseconds 💀

in pz, fuck knows

[flat sun]

most times are in game hours

[quartz bear]

so after "leaving", the helicoper can technically come back after at least 30 ingame minutes

depending on if you're unlucky enough to roll for it

[lucid junco]

So its
Find any player
Teleport to them
Move to the player
Check for target's death or evaporation(Fly away)
Check for how close I am
Search for target if I lost it
Hover the spot I saw the target
....
Come back >half an hour later
Repeat if you suck

[quartz bear]

"come back >half an hour later if you suck", rather

[lucid junco]

Ill try putting it on paper now then

[quartz bear]

here's the demo for cellular automaton

for comparsion, this is Java Random

not very clear at 10k values

at 1 million, I'd say CA is about as uniform as Java RNG

[lucid junco]

Max seconds is in real life seconds?

[quartz bear]

appears so, yes

[lucid junco]

That means speeding up the game does nothing

[quartz bear]

not necessarily

GameTime.getInstance().getRealworldSecondsSinceLastUpdate()

ok

appears like the speeding game does nothing lol

[lucid junco]

[quartz bear]

but also I may just be shit at reading the code

[lucid junco]

Lemme just check it

[quartz bear]

never discard that piece of information

ok yeah it looks like speeding the game up indeed does nothing

[lucid junco]

So nice of devs to give us a chopper spawning button

[flat sun]

that's hilarious considering how unbelievably slower it is

i couldn't figure out why they'd used it before and now i'm really perplexed

[lucid junco]

Uhh

Forgot where to activate the noise view

Found it

Testing one more time, now with stopwatch

And yeah, ~60 seconds on times 1 speed

Huh

@quartz bear It seems like its 60 seconds with 1x speed, but much less with 40

And also chopper can see though the invisibility cheat

Not even my god powers can protect me from the US chopper

[quartz bear]

replace the second part of that sentence with what you actually meant to say

[lucid junco]

Shit

[lucid junco]

I meant 40x speed

[quartz bear]

so world speed matters

got it

[lucid junco]

the clock times speed

[lucid junco]

Thats weird

[languid kayak]

chopper means just "helicopter" so yeah 😄

[lucid junco]

The chopper stays for roughly the same time

There is a small difference between it seeing you and not seeing you(timewise)

[languid kayak]

"unless"? So there is a way to skip heli event? I always assumed being indoors makes no difference, but I heard different stances

[languid kayak]

ah, makes sense

[quartz bear]

that message is obsolete

[languid kayak]

I asume one hour in-game at default time? Seems the heli times are based off of real second no matter the game time?

[lucid junco]

7249 unseen vs 9000 seen

Or in my human and likely flawed stopwatch test, 3:07 vs 3:10

[languid kayak]

I never tried going out of bounds in b42 but isn't out of bounds area procedurally generated now? Also maps mods.

[lucid junco]

It is

I was very confused at first because there was a boundary before b42

But now anything out of bound of the original map is generated

Which is cool ig

[lucid junco]

Speaking in vanilla