pzwiki_editing

[languid kayak]

There's even a missing item in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list#Furniture – I seem to have deleted it? Was it my mistake? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Small_Table_with_Drawer&action=edit&redlink=1

oh nvm, I removed the redirect, so the question still stands

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Fence_Gate&action=edit&redlink=1 is removed too

I see some of the items from tile list are also mirrored in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3 – what is this @proud cobalt

it's also a good place to find _ 😄

it seems all the items that had ' or - in them got spaces converted to _

[proud cobalt]

This is the script I made
https://github.com/CalvyPZ/Movables-to-wiki

Vails is based on the translation files, mine is based on named tiles (that's what my sandbox is). Both have their pros and cons. Vails is accurate to what exists in the translation files. Mine is still experimental.

[languid kayak]

true, I forgot you linked it 🙂 I think yours (?) is more accurate, showing the actual in-game name, minus the _ showing (for some items that lack the ' and - it shows it too, so I wonder. Pinging @digital helm for this too, maybe we should switch to that instead for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tile_list ? Expecpt maybe some Thumpables

It lists things like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Sign which is probably not relevant.

The ISMoveableSpriteProps names is probably not needed at all, I just redirected them to Furniture just in case.

btw @proud cobalt you think it's safe to remove the foraging part from Big Spiffo now it's in the table? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Big_Spiffo#Foraging It mentions it being "legenrary", is something like that even defined in the game?

[proud cobalt]

Yeah the foraging loot tables are names like that. Common, uncommon, rare, legendary. Something like that. It just changes the chance

[proud cobalt]

The one in my sandbox isn't done, I need to figure out the issue with translating the names. There was some discussion a little bit ago with Vail about using the parsed tiles files for the tile list

[languid kayak]

Maybe we can have this being reflected in the script? Maybe over a tooltip?

[proud cobalt]

Should be doable, it's just a name used in the code though

[languid kayak]

btw I've recently came to a conculsion we should have some common way of writing a short concise intro to an item, and move everything to overview or appropraite secitons.

Recent example: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Steel_Knuckle&type=revision&diff=619993&oldid=478811

I think all items should pretty much follow the simple:

XXX is an YYY in [[Project Zomboid]].
Unless we don't want to link to Project Zomboid that much.

Where YYY could be any flavor text depending on the item type, like

[[food]] [[item]]
[[clothing]] [[item]]
or alternatively
piece of [[clothing]]

The only issue is that there is no unliked character between item type and [[item]] so it may confuse some readers, I think Wikipedia discourages such links.

[proud cobalt]

I completely agree. Intro should be short, consice, and say what it is from the viewpoint of outside the game.

An '''axe''' is a [[weapon]] in [[Project Zomboid]]

[languid kayak]

I think we should make it into a style guide, and establish a common wording for each item type.

For this example, would we rather have

[[weapon]] in [[Project Zomboid]].
or
[[weapon]] [[item]] in [[Project Zomboid]].
I think the first one solves the issue with two links being close to each other, and the reader can go to the item page from the weapons page anyway?

So

is a [[clothing]] in [[Project Zomboid]].
or
is a [[jewelry]] in [[Project Zomboid]].
pr
is an [[Ammo|ammuntion]] in [[Project Zomboid]].
would just have us to go through each item type 🤔

[proud cobalt]

They still need the word item after, maybe we just don't link item right after it.

is a [[clothing]] item in

[languid kayak]

won't ''is a clothing'' cuts it? Or ''is a piece of clothing''?

[proud cobalt]

Nah doesn't work in English. Is a piece of clothing does

[glacial tusk]

why keep saying in project zomboid?

idk just copy how terraria wiki does theirs. they have a lot of items and the wiki is good enough

[languid kayak]

Terraria does it differently though: https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Spiffo_Plush

Though I know repeating Project Zomboid may be excessive.

[proud cobalt]

Terraria wiki intros are long and drawn out. They contain information we don't put in our intros. It's a different design to our style guide.

[languid kayak]

btw, I know I'm repeating myself, but I kinda want to have it settled https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=LBMW_-_Kentucky_Radio&curid=14183&diff=577905&oldid=527327

Anyone said something about it? Else I think it's worth to revert for now?

[proud cobalt]

I don't see any reason it would be unknown? Aren't these script generated?

[languid kayak]

I think so… I think that unless someone confirm it's wrong, it's best to stay as it is.

[flat sun]

isn't that one unused anyway? it doesn't really have a date

if it were on the 9th it'd overlap with the ones below

[proud cobalt]

Can someone check the times in media/radio/RadioData.xml

[flat sun]

it is no longer used as of build 41

[glacial tusk]

also i dont understand why for the lead pipe, the text in the table says its skill is a long blunt, but at the bottom at the description, the text says its a short blunt

[flat sun]

it would only play in the initial infection gamemode, but as that is a sandbox preset now and not a gamemode, it is unused - it would play at that time if it were actually able to be activated (and probably did in b40)

[languid kayak]

I think I delved into YouTube too much today, but hey, an acknowledgement! https://youtu.be/WlQy3y0I8bk?feature=shared&t=125

[glacial tusk]

gotcha

[proud cobalt]

Because wiki editors are humans

[naive imp]

@languid kayak @proud cobalt here's my approach to intros. Do it like the locations. So like instead of just

An [[Axe]] is a weapon

Include some small tidbits that are still useful. Ex

An [[Axe]] is a weapon in [[Project Zomboid]]. It is commonly found at fire stations, and are effective against trees and zombies alike.

It sounds long here but since the article is desktop length it's really not that long

Plus it might boost our search metrics or something

[languid kayak]

the "is commonly found at fire stations, and are effective against trees and zombies alike" require a lot of human effort, though

[naive imp]

It's two sentences. Could just copy paste everything else and add lil tidbits like I do with locations

For like restaurants and whatnot I do a lot of copy paste and add some stuff later

[languid kayak]

though the finding at and effective against can not be really judged 😄

[naive imp]

Well it's commonly known that an axe is a good weapon

Damage wise

And fire station are the most common even if not gauranteed

I think you may be looking at this in an exceedingly complex way why not make it simple

[green smelt]

So make it simple as in:
Axe is a Popular Weapon in the Game Project Zomboid
Due to Having High Damage and
Long Range.
Commonly found in Fire stations...

[serene sage]

sure, maybe they're not easy to judge

but

[languid kayak]

oh the old times: https://youtu.be/WlQy3y0I8bk?feature=shared&t=1684

[serene sage]

if we put some of that info in the intro sentence it would be a lot easier for beginners to find what they're looking for

can't expect them to slog through stats to find out where it can be found

[proud cobalt]

But this changes, and we can update the distribution table and Infobox automatically, we can't do the intro. That's how we get left with incorrect information sitting on pages for years

[proud cobalt]

I have to say I think it's the opposite. 2 sentences on 3500 items in B42 is a lot of sentences that may become untrue patch to patch

[proud cobalt]

Man it was like that for quite some time 😆

[proud cobalt]

I mean it has its own section and there's a TOC

[languid kayak]

tnhat's a good point too

[serene sage]

hmm

interesting

[proud cobalt]

Actually, in grabbing screenshot for the memory. I think this is a pretty good intro.

[serene sage]

"looks cool" objectively correct

[proud cobalt]

It used to be the whole article for quite a while

[serene sage]

"This article may need more content" well duh it's only one sentence

[digital helm]

Another reason I started simplifying the intro way back was because it turns into a magnet for every little thing that the item does. I think having obvious info like "an axe chops down trees" isn't necessary. I think something like "A stone axe is a two-handed [[axe]] [[weapon]]." would be enough to state that it cuts down trees. You can find info on what an 'axe' means on the axe article, but also state it in usage under its own section.

[digital helm]

Yeah, I think I mentioned to Calvy that I'd like to switch the tile list to use his script. I haven't got around to looking into the moveables script yet. I assume the translation names would be the correct ones though?

[naive imp]

Yeah but also the distribution tables can be opaque to newer viewers. We should have a way that's very straightforward

A lot of people who play zomboid are not statistically inclined and I think that's worth mentioning

[digital helm]

As Albion said, I don't think it's used anymore. The whole date parameter can be removed. I must've missed it, as it automatically adds 1993-07-09 based on that timestamp

[naive imp]

It's not satisfactory ot something

Love that game btw

[digital helm]

I agree. Having only the distribution tables makes it more difficult to read. Although more accurate, your average person will probably gloss over it

[naive imp]

Exactly. Even if it needs to be manually maintained I think that's something worth maintaining

It took me a while to understand them myself

And I edit the damn wiki

A lot of people will be like wtf is this at first glance especially

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt I wonder if it could be automated? Maybe get the most common places or something and plug them into a pre-generated sentence? Something like that

[naive imp]

Yeah but then you run into the issue of everything sounding robotic kind of

Especially with ai text it has a specific feel to it

Like I can tell if chatgpt wrote something by looking at it 60 percent of the time

[digital helm]

Yeah, I'm just worried about it getting changed each patch 😅

[naive imp]

We'll all be busy with 42 so I actually talked to the mods of r/projectzomboid and they gave me approval for a call to action post on there

So we may not be as short handed as we think

hopefully

[digital helm]

Awesome! Thanks for doing that. I don't use reddit much

[naive imp]

I'm a reddit crawler so I can be our reddit point of contact if need be

[digital helm]

just need that wiki flare now

[naive imp]

Funny you mention that I asked them about it and they never responded

Maybe I should follow up

[serene sage]

ai text always has this glossy, overoptimistic pros-and-cons tone to it and I hate it so much

[naive imp]

Yeah I like to do things manually

[digital helm]

flair even

[naive imp]

That's very obvious if you look at my edit history

[naive imp]

Yeah that's what I was tlaking about

[naive imp]

Here

[proud cobalt]

It's hard for me to see it from an outside perspective because I make them. So if you have any feedback about what we can do to actually make it more digestible than please feel free. The reason we moved to effective chance is because of a suggestion from Ksilem

[naive imp]

Well I think the whole table is very opaque to most people. Think about it we're wiki editors. We spend a ton of time looking at details and stats and numbers and whatnot

Your average reader is the opposite

They wanna know where it is and what it does

I like the tables they're great

But we should also have a straightforward explanation below or above them for the non-statistically inclined people

Again not saying the tables are bad

[proud cobalt]

I understand there can be confusion on room definitions, but most of them are pretty straight forward. Like armysurplus is a surplus store. The container to look in would be metal shelves, and the chance of it spawning is XY%

[proud cobalt]

Dw I don't think you are

[naive imp]

But not everyone looks at the pzmap either

And it's also the way the information is presented

It looks far more complicated than it actually is

Someone sees it, is like "Whoa I don't get any of that" and skips off it

[serene sage]

it's also collapsed by default

[proud cobalt]

Oh for sure. The issue with generalising though is it can only be a half truth. If the building doesn't match the room def or something

[proud cobalt]

They were originally not. They made some extremely long pages

[proud cobalt]

Very open to design changes too. Limited by mediawiki

[digital helm]

I think the design is good, especially for those that really want to dig into the specifics. Other than a brief overview, I think it could help if we had a page for each room def, then link to that in the building/room. Similar to how we did for item tags. Then people can learn what 'Carpenter' or 'SafehouseLoot' actually mean. I don't think we'd need an exhaustive list of all the locations with that room def, but just some examples.

[proud cobalt]

I would love to have a map that could filter based on rooms, but alas my map project is on pause indefinitely

[naive imp]

I think that'd help, but tbh I think that we may be relying too much on automation here

I think this is an issue best solved by having to add the brief descriptions manually

Or you could have a bot do it

But then it's not tailored per page

Then again I am biased as that's my preferred editing style, heavy manual input

[digital helm]

Automating a framework might help. Just depends on whether the dev time is worth it (or if the dev wants to do it 😄 )

[proud cobalt]

I guess I'm not against adding some manual wording in conjunction with the table, that way it can be verified easily. I think the issue previously was how hard it was to verify the claims. I don't know if I'm sold for every item. Like I don't think we should ever say 'commonly found in shops' or anything like that. But 'fireaxes can commonly be found in fire stations' being in the location section, I can get over that

Much of this I think boils down to the loot system being quite conveluted and confusing in itself.

[naive imp]

Yeah, I was thinking it'd be mostly helpful for items that are a bit rare like pickaxes

Ex

"Pickaxes can be uncommonly found in factories, warehouses, and hardware stores"

Just below the distribution table

I don't think that's too much to ask

But I do think we should cover the majority of stuff if we do decide to go through with this

But of course there's other things to tackle atm

[naive imp]

Yeah kinda how we auto-generated tiles at first

Just the basic parts and then modify it later maybe? Bit it'd have to look decent because items are far less obscure than tiles are

[lucid junco]

I think its a day 0 in the Radio.xml

[rotund echo]

Should Franklin Valuline be broken up into different pages? It has diverse amount of variants different from each other

[proud cobalt]

It doesnt use procedural = true, or procList so will it actually work?

        crate = {
            {name="Chemistry", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
            {name="ScienceMisc", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
            {name="TestingLab", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
        },
        desk = {
            {name="Chemistry", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
            {name="ScienceMisc", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
            {name="TestingLab", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
        },
        metal_shelves = {
            {name="Chemistry", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
            {name="ScienceMisc", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
            {name="TestingLab", min=1, max=99, weightChance=100},
        }
    },```

I guess what tripped the script up is that it doesnt have proclist but also doesn't have an items list

[flat sun]

come to think of it, isn't laboratory the one the game always dumps an error about?

[proud cobalt]

I havn't heard that, but i figure this must be a mistake right?

I cant see any others like this

[flat sun]

LOG  : General     , 1730695164088> ERROR: SuburbsDistributions["laboratory"] is broken
LOG  : General     , 1730695164089> ERROR: SuburbsDistributions["laboratory"] is broken
LOG  : General     , 1730695164089> ERROR: SuburbsDistributions["laboratory"] is broken

lootzed doesn't like it so i can't reroll but it looks like it just spawned generic loot

my reading of the distributions parser seems to show that this error does mean it doesn't actually load this one

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i think someone forgot to wrap it in a procList so my script unintentionally works correctly, and labratory isnt actually ever called. V4 is a complete rewrite and breaks in the same way. @languid kayak We just happened to watch the one video with the place where it happens

[lucid junco]

Ive shown this one some time ago

It was weird when upon trying to look loot in the lab desk it threw me errors

[flat sun]

it's worth noting that even if this wasn't broken the nbc mask would still be hilariously rare

there's very few containers that qualify to begin with, it competes with other distribution lists, and it has a tiny base chance

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Finnegan_Research_Group
Is the main offender in this

It has ~3 floors with labs and none of them have anything but officeware

[proud cobalt]

Lmao thats where i was looking too

[proud cobalt]

The project is finished, it was to add all the vehicles. But feel free to edit the actual pages

[rotund echo]

Wait, lmao

I thought "red" means not worked on anymore

[proud cobalt]

It means complete

Red as in closed, green as in open

[rotund echo]

Ok

Damn I just made myself look like a fool

[proud cobalt]

Nah youre good lol

[rotund echo]

Though speaking of cars, would it be worth splitting up Franklin Valuline page?

[naive imp]

You could make a case for it. Idk tho since they're basically stat changes throughout. Personally i don't think its worth it but what do yall think @lucid junco @languid kayak ?

[digital helm]

I'd be for it, purely for the stat changes. I think we discussed it previously, but didn't come to a decision. We've since split items and tiles by their variants. So I think it'd be good.
Have the main vehicle page "Franklin Valuline" as a generic 'meta page', then a separate page for each variant

[rotund echo]

Thinking of making the minibus and ambulance as their own separate pages, what do you think?

[lucid junco]

Make a sandbox and then see

[digital helm]

I'm happy with it, but would be good to get other's thoughts too @languid kayak @proud cobalt
Might be good to do as sharpgolden said, and do a mock-up on a sandbox

[rotund echo]

What the hell is a sandbox on pzwiki.net

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Toadstars/sandbox

[rotund echo]

Cool, thanks

[rotund echo]

How does it look? 😄

[digital helm]

At a glance it looks good. If you save we can take a closer look

Also, is it called minibus in-game? My knowledge of it may be outdated

[rotund echo]

It doesn't even have its own name

Its just "Franklin Valuline"

But in the files I think its called "Base.VanSeats"

But "minibus" seems the most appropriate name to me

[rotund echo]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Toadstars/sandbox

[digital helm]

Yeah, I just envision something slightly different when I hear minibus 😄 I've always referred to it as "6-seater". Happy either way though, whatever the community prefers

[digital helm]

@naive imp do you have any thoughts on this? This is basically what I imagined. Allows more opportunity to expand on each vehicle variant, such as loot distribution and spawn location. Also outline differences in the infobox.

[rotund echo]

Here's one I did for the ambulance

[rotund echo]

Probably gonna do another one for the Radio Van (just describing how shitty it is)

[lucid junco]

I hope they add something of value to it in b42

Like increased radio signal strength

Those big ass antennas are worthless rn

[digital helm]

Btw you can make as many subpages/sandboxes as you want. Basically anything starting with your user page User:Toadstars is in your 'userspace', which other people shouldn't really be editing. So you can add /sandbox, /sandbox2, /ambulance or whatever. /sandbox is recommended, so you can re-use it. Then see them all here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/User:Toadstars/
If you want to delete one, just add {{deletion}} or ping me or Faalagorn and we'll get to it.

[devout nymph]

A

[rotund echo]

Then maybe with enough electrical and mechanics skill, let us put the Ham radios into normal cars

Oh wait you're talking about radio vans lmaoo

[lucid junco]

Yeah

[rotund echo]

Ok so I'm gonna break up the Valuline page into four separate pages

If I have your approval to do so...

Ok I'm gonna make them

[lucid junco]

Looks decent

Though Im curious what would you do with loot tables of various vans

[rotund echo]

Put them in their own oage

Page*

[naive imp]

By that you mean the loot tables in the page of the van it corresponds to right? We usually put the tables with vehicles historically

Just asking because I didn't quite understand what you meant

[naive imp]

Personally I'm against the whole item split page thing for the sake of increased pages to maintain but it has proven to have some value

[rotund echo]

Yes

[naive imp]

Probably just a pet peeve of mine lol

But it's all good go ahead

[naive imp]

Cool just asking is all

[languid kayak]

ineteresting for sure. BTW, if that's the case, then definitely a trivia should be filled about it.

[fossil ravine]

Is there like a guide page?

[languid kayak]

If they'd be split, shouldn't the other cars be split as well?

[naive imp]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Editing_for_beginners

[fossil ravine]

Thanks

[naive imp]

There's more too, the main thing here is just to look around, explore and see what others do

That's how I learned

Find what you're interested in and see how you can help, we could always use more editors

[languid kayak]

well, they are mostly automated nowadays, so no that big of an issue as location pages for example.

[fossil ravine]

Oh cool im just learning

[naive imp]

I remember when I was learning too. No sweat, just kinda poke around, see whats going on. If you wanna help but don't know how just ask here in the discord someone will be more than happy to explain it all to you

We're pretty chill just don't break the site lol

[naive imp]

I feel like I'm the odd one out on all this automation. I feel like we rely too much on it sometimes

But we are a small group for a huge game so it is necessary

Idk maybe it's because I do the one big task you can't really automate

[proud cobalt]

Yeah you have to consider there's like 6 of us actively contributing. Plus the minors from people during the month. 600 of those are locations which is mostly maintained by you and sharp. There's 1800 item pages and 800 tile pages. That's like 500 pages each for us to look after

Items is the only part that has proper automation. And it's only for infoboxes and location tables. It's not like it's replacing editors

[naive imp]

Yeah I'm aware. It's probably just because I don't have a ton of experience working with it

The whole "I don't know so I question it" rationale

[proud cobalt]

It's just here to update the data and fill in what doesn't exist yet

[naive imp]

Oh it's undoubtedly helpful and I'm incredibly thankful we have jt

I'm just notoriously skeptical of quite literally everything

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Stop editing my pages so much, makes me feel guilty /j

In a more serious note, can you give some critique of my recent https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Stor-A-Max and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/KY_Transit edits

Stor a max is a pretty common disagreement point so Id like to hear your opinion about current implementation

[lucid junco]

I was also yesterday years old when Ive found out that KY transit has a bus station building

Ive tried to add it to the same page, since its literally next to the main building

But dunno if its good enough

[naive imp]

FLASHBACKS NOOOOOOOOO

(The older people here will know what I'm referring to)

But yeah gimme a sec I'll look at your edits in the middle of something atm

I'll lyk

[naive imp]

I'm gonna say I disagree with the Stor-A-Max decision here. The building is far more important to note than the trailers are as it's the building that contains actual loot, versus trailers that are just part of the map. It's a common practice in the USA to use trailers or Old shipping containers as part of Construction sites and other industry as a prefab structure, so the trailer isn't needed.

Also, the building is not an office, it's a storage building primarily.

I think we should pick one trailer image to be present in the gallery, and move the trailer information to a trivia section.

All other trailer images and the trailer locations section should be scrapped imo

As for KY Transit, there will be some formatting and syntax changes most likely, but I don't have an issue with incorporating the bus stop for now

[languid kayak]

I guess it's kinda good to have the list of the trailers though they indeed serve little of value as there's no important loot in them and no unique tiles (the name is painted so likely won't ever be pickable).

[naive imp]

I don't understand the reasoning for keeping them

They serve no purpose other than the fact they have the logo on them

I do think they should be mentioned in trivia but listing all of them seems overkill

Like we say there's a residential area but we don't list every house despite that they're somewhat unique

Why should we make a special case for these trailers?

[languid kayak]

well, the unique logo 😄 Though I get your point

[naive imp]

Just doesn't seem logical to me

[naive imp]

@languid kayak https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:ADEOSUNMARVEL spam

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm More likely to be available

[naive imp]

you right

[lucid junco]

How do you notice those edits

[serene sage]

I personally keep the recent changes page open all the time

[rotund echo]

@languid kayak the reason why I did that differently is because in the actual game, key and mechanics menu, the name is just "Franklin Valuline" whereas for ambulances and radio vans, they're "Ambulance", "Radio Van"

[digital helm]

I wasn't available, but Faal was on it 😄 thanks

[digital helm]

@languid kayak I'm going to revert this change. We do this for items too, call it the in-game name in the infobox https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Baseball_Cap_(blue)

While at it, I'm going to move it to be minibus as it's not a proper noun

[lucid junco]

@naive imp https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Stor-A-Max Moved trailers to the gallery

Wasnt that big that I thought it would be

[languid kayak]

ah, didn't realize that, thanks!

And thanks for reverting @digital helm 🙂

I should probably get onto vehicles one day 😛

[languid kayak]

yeah, deleted and banned, before I saw your message 😄 Thanks for poining though!

Kirrus will adjust the filters based on it too

[languid kayak]

I do patrol recent changes, so I keep eye on every of your edits (only admins and bots are excluded, but we may get some whitelisted people later on, especially post b42 as edits are sometimes a lot (looking at you Calvy :D)

[lucid junco]

Yeah ok big brother

Pz wiki is literally 1984

https://tenor.com/view/big-brother1984-1984-big-brother-big-brother-is-watching-you-george-orwell-gif-24454773

[proud cobalt]

You mean you don't wanna check all 6,000 of my edits in the past 30 days

[languid kayak]

all pleasure 🙃

but otherwise kinda shame mediawiki bwing a big project lack mass patrolling tools; I kinda wonder how they must do it on Wikipedia, though it's way more patrolling users there doing only that

[dense galleon]

I was wondering if anyone could verify this info before I try and make a change, according to one of the radio broadcast the 95% of the mil camp was infected via airborne meaning that 5% of the group are immune. This I don’t believe is mentioned in the wiki. It also would change some of the info in the timeline article

[proud cobalt]

Which broadcast, does it say the 5% were immune or is that an assumption

[dense galleon]

I reviewed the radio files and confirmed it was at best speculation, no numbers that i could find at least. The only mention of the amount of people infected via airborne alone in the border camp was "everyone except a small group" which doesn't really help :/

[proud cobalt]

Anyone know of a file that contains the current version number of the game?

[flat sun]

i'm not sure if there's anything easily parseable but the game does keep it in the Core class

if you're using that for anything but future proofing keep in mind the format of that has changed in the recent (relatively 😅) past

[proud cobalt]

I just cant find an easy way to link a specific manifest to a game version without it being incredibly manual

[digital helm]

I wonder if the changelog might work? Although from memory that was only updated for stable releases

[languid kayak]

btw, thanks for claryfing that @rotund echo https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Knox_Country&curid=369&diff=621143&oldid=619259 – I remembered that this had these errors, but I never got myself to do the proper research what's based on what 😄

[languid kayak]

(someone can of course double check it, but I believe it's correct?)

For example I remember hearing the Fallas Lake being geographically at Lickskillet, though with the map 42 update, some people theorized of Lickskillet being a new location, similar happened with Ekron/Fallas Lake confusion 😛

[lucid junco]

@proud cobalt I had fucked up a bit. Is it possible for a bot to check text and change it on businesses pages?

I should have double checked the definition of the words im using, but oh well. Officeware/ Office ware is not (technically) a proper noun, Office supplies would be more appropriate. Id done this myself but I dont remember which pages contain this error

[proud cobalt]

Yeah very possible, can you link to one page with it so I can make sure I edit the right one

[lucid junco]

Sorry for disturbing, had already done it manually

I forgot that you can look up words in the search bar

Had already fixed all of them

[proud cobalt]

No problem 😄 Didn't bother me as I was asleep

[rotund echo]

The penis-shaped lake is real, I linked the coordinates in the trivia of Fallas Lake pzwiki.net page. Its definitely a recreation of Lickskillet, Meade County

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Will we do anything with navbox as a preparation for b42

Or wait till b42 drops, so we get more businesses that can be categorised

[rotund echo]

March Ridge is also a recreation, but its not a standalone city but rather part of Fort Knox

[naive imp]

What would you suggest I'd we were to do something? Nothing strikes my mind as of now

[naive imp]

Source?

Need satellite photos something tangible

[lucid junco]

Splitting up some categories, adding in new ones, renaming some

[naive imp]

I already have a plan for that

I'm holding off until all locations are done

But What would you suggest in terms of categories?

[rotund echo]

Precisely, satellite imagery

[naive imp]

Can you zoom in?

[rotund echo]

It doesn't have its own specific name, its just Fort Knox

Military housing, grid layout, copy and paste houses, that's definitely what March Ridge is based off of

[proud cobalt]

We know March Ridge is military housing and Fort Knox will be in Knox Country, it's pretty safe to say its based off this

[rotund echo]

The only one I don't know its position in relation to the real world is Rosewood

Though I am tempted to think it is "Grahamton"

I've had Riverside city figured out easily

[lucid junco]

Oh, Id add in uugh...

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-bob-patrick-star-thinking-hmmm-intense-gif-5454670

Id split Grocery & liquor stores into Grocery and liquor store

There are enough stores for that to make it a category

Though I dont know in which route should we go

I think we should agree on a minimum amount of businesses within certain categories thats worthy enough to separate

[lucid junco]

If we want to include (almost) every category, minimum would be 3-4 per category

[proud cobalt]

OK I've downloaded 240 builds of pz, now to painstakingly figure out which build is which, so I can compare their scripts files

Actually most of the manifests are empty. But there's at least 200gb worth of versions

[lucid junco]

Still less in size than average AAA game in 2024

[unique anvil]

Hey @languid kayak, was randomly checking on that page I edited 2 weeks or so ago and noticed you added back -steamport1 and -steamport2 which don't even seem to exist in the game, may I ask why?

[languid kayak]

hm, can you link the diff? Maybe I edited an old version of the page by accident? Wasn:t intentional for sure if that's the case

[unique anvil]

Also you changed a handful of the ordering and grouping of params to make them incorrect too

[languid kayak]

I:m on mobile though

[unique anvil]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Startup_parameters&type=revision&diff=615387&oldid=594155

An example is the -modfolders param which is only available on the client, I put it in the correct section previously but now it's back in its old spot again

[languid kayak]

oh crap I did indeed 😄

[unique anvil]

no problem though! just thought I'd point it out

[languid kayak]

thanks, I accidentially undid allyour changes by that 😄 Reverted the changes back to your edit now

[proud cobalt]

Work has killed me this week, have some days off starting Monday, wanting to get outfits finished

[lucid junco]

Both of these are incorrect

If Jackie says that its a second day of the exclusion, then the day before was the first one

So thats an initial infection

She says that on July 9 1993

So that means July 8 1993 is a correct date

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak Maybe Sir Twiggy is modeled after sirtwiggy?

[languid kayak]

I assume so? Though no idea how they look at. Also the hair are randomized

[languid kayak]

ah 😄

Also Cataclysm DDA on the background 😄

[lucid junco]

9 years ago

[languid kayak]

I think Calvy said the hairs are defined somewhere in the code though?

[lucid junco]

Isnt it only for baldspot, kate and raider?

Just because it so happens that they have a random event

Where their hair, beards and other stuff is hardcoded

[languid kayak]

I think Jackie Jaye have a random event too

at least

[lucid junco]

Does she?

[languid kayak]

https://youtu.be/xb266CS3r80?feature=shared&t=1950

There's a "NewsStory" and the youtuber searched for them, though hard to confirm she indeed spawns?

[lucid junco]

I dont know that it excisted

[lucid junco]

Honestly, I dont know how to properly use tilezed

But Ive checked .lua and .class for outfits and found nothing

[languid kayak]

neither do I 😄 Though there's a guide linked in description(?)

https://youtu.be/xb266CS3r80?feature=shared&t=1643

[lucid junco]

I will try doing it the code way

[languid kayak]

seems it's https://github.com/Unjammer/PZ_Vanilla_Map

[lucid junco]

Ive found it being mentioned in

There is a possibility that its mentioned somewhere else

sooo 😅

Equivalent of bashing my head until apples fall from the tree

[languid kayak]

hm

[faalagorn@languid kayak-pc ProjectZomboid]$ grep -rni NewsStory
projectzomboid/media/maps/Muldraugh, KY/objects.lua:11313: { name = "NewsStory", type = "ZoneStory", x = 12487, y = 3904, z = 0, width = 15, height = 25 },

the other is indeed

grep: projectzomboid/zombie/randomizedWorld/randomizedZoneStory/RandomizedZoneStoryBase$ZoneType.class: binary file matches

[languid kayak]

yup, basically this

[lucid junco]

Well, that gives us absolutely nothing

Id say that there is no way to find the defined hairstyle for her or twiggies

So Ill just update him from irl sirtwiggy

@proud cobalt Can you look into that when you come back?

[languid kayak]

Minor, but I kinda like this change btw: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Canto_Records&curid=29417&diff=621197&oldid=619753 @lucid junco

[lucid junco]

Ive changed all of officeware to office supplies

Office ware is not technically a proper noun, so I would like to avoid it

And Ive used it alot

[proud cobalt]

Definitely more than just bald spot etc have set hair styles. See below. But the only way I know of to define this is in zone spawning, which Jackie and Twiggy aren't in afaik

    Veteran = {
        name="Veteran",
        chance=10,
        gender="male",
        maleHairStyles="CrewCut:20",
        beardStyles="Long:15;Chops:17;Goatee:17;Moustache:17",
    },
    Redneck = {
        name="Redneck",
        chance=65,
        maleHairStyles="Mullet:30;Metal:15;Cornrows:5;MohawkShort:5",
        femaleHairStyles="CrewCut:10;Cornrows:5;MohawkShort:5",
        beardStyles="Long:13;Chops:13;Goatee:13;Moustache:13",
    },
    Thug = {
        name="Thug",
        chance=15,
        gender="male",
        maleHairStyles="Mullet:30;Metal:15",
        beardStyles="Long:13;Chops:13;Goatee:13;Moustache:13",
    },
}```

[proud cobalt]

OK so all the other stories have their own class files. For example, in the same table as the NewsStory we can see MusicFestStage. When we search for this, we find a class file called RZSMusicFestStage

At the bottom of this file we can see it spawns some punk zombies

        this.addZombiesOnSquare(1, "Punk", 0, this.getRandomFreeSquareFullZone(this, zone));
        this.addZombiesOnSquare(1, "Punk", 0, this.getRandomFreeSquareFullZone(this, zone));
        this.addZombiesOnSquare(1, "Punk", 0, this.getRandomFreeSquareFullZone(this, zone));
        this.addZombiesOnSquare(1, "Punk", 100, this.getRandomFreeSquareFullZone(this, zone)); ```
But no such file exists for news story. And of we search for twiggy or Jackie in the same format other outfits are spawned, there are no results.

This to me says that they do not spawn at all in the game. At least yet. Which we already knew because it's on the article 😆
```Sir_Twiggy can be used as an outfit or spawned as a zombie in the debug mode, but currently can not be found in the game otherwise. Outfit color is randomized and body/hair/beard are not set.```

So TLDR, they don't spawn naturally, and the hair and colour clothing is completely random

And hair is set in the zone definitions lua, I can't find any hard coded in Java

[languid kayak]

btw @lucid junco maybe you could upload the remaining taxi logos in the same style to be categorized in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Taxi_adverts

[languid kayak]

thanks for clarifying! I tested the spawning on a few saves, she does not seem to spawn inded. Seems it was just the video giving hopes

[proud cobalt]

The zone exists in the map but is never actually defined so nothing will ever spawn there except generic zombies

[languid kayak]

btw, are we gonna make a page for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Small_military_checkpoints ? It's only redlinked on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Exclusion_Zone_border

[lucid junco]

That's all of them

There are currently only 2 adverts

[lucid junco]

Maybe if we combine both of them?

They are fairly similar

Difference being camps near them

[rotund echo]

I swear the only taxi advert I see in Zomboid is "I ❤️ Wok & Rolls"

[molten night]

Hello I know I might be to late becouse spanish is well regarded in the pz community but, is there still translations needed for the spanish side of the pz 42 build and or wiki page, I wanted to make a name for myself in the community and I thought this was a great way to start, hopefully I can get started in spanish if it isint 100% finished, and some assistance in actually adding translations so I can start hopefully imidiately

Btw I understand the wiki side of stuff just not the build 42 code script for language and were to access it, if it's even accessible, basically I need a direction on were to start and I'll do it.

[proud cobalt]

Always work to be done on the wiki 😄 Nobody is actively maintaining Spanish currently, it has hardly been started. The majority of Spanish pages are generated automatically, so don't have specific information. Assuming you have no wiki experience, start here:

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents

I suggest these in particular:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Editing_for_beginners
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Creating_a_new_page
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:How_to_help
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide

For specific information regarding translations:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Translations
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations

This is the maintenance page for Spanish specifically:
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Site_maintenance/es

Pretty much everyone in this channel can assist you with wiki editing to some degree.

[lucid junco]

Cause second one is unused

It hangs around in the files as a part of another taxi variant that went unused

So I💛Rocky Road is the only one currently present

Though that got me thinking, can we show 3d model of cars, instead of in game screenshots?

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

Some discussion a little ago

[lucid junco]

I do remember it, but I don't remember why we didn't stick with it

[proud cobalt]

Other priorities

For me at least

Also the file sizes were too big for the animated versions

[lucid junco]

So it wasn't someone being against it

[proud cobalt]

Nope

[lucid junco]

I think we can go with just angled 3d models for now, so it would look more like the items model that is in the infobox

[languid kayak]

yeah, I realized, still would be good to have it uploaded and categorized, especially for future-proofing if they decide to add more 😛

[languid kayak]

yeah, the Spiffo one is there in the game but unused

[languid kayak]

Just keep the mind that the wiki isself is not the game, the translations for build 42 will be done by a separate studio (see pinned messages in #translations), thouhg we do have monthly summaries on wiki if you contribute anything for that month https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:News 🙂

[languid kayak]

yup, I think the only issue was with exporting tires? These had to be done manually? Unless it was solved in the end

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/General_Store Page created

[proud cobalt]

Not sure who else would want this, but here is a json file of every item and its stats over 170 versions of the game. This is very niche 😆

I'm going to use this for the history section

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Offices_(Central_Louisville) Page created

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Offices_(West_Central_Louisville) Page revamped

@languid kayak Both logos are utilized now

[languid kayak]

that'd be ideal for the history section; I thought about noting expansions of it somewhere, but not sure it'd warrant a new project? Digging the history stuff is always interesting too – you downloaded all the old depots from Steam?

[proud cobalt]

Not all of them, but 170 of them ~500Gb

Some of the depots were just dead, completely empty

Like no build 27

And no pre-steam versions

Though im trying to track a few of those down ^

[languid kayak]

Also, I think we should conceive some way of tracking progress, actually I noticed you use it already for some projects (I think SYF and translations) 🙂

Vibrance wanted to make a translation progress based on what TF2 wiki has, but that never happened.

I for example always are not sure e.g. how much tiles are left to take care or how far are we when it comes to splitting items 😄 Or how many locations are there to take care of.

For the most part the site mainteneance category does a good job, but often it's not clear

PCGW is a good for example https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/PCGamingWiki:GOG.com_Enhancement_Project

[proud cobalt]

I've never played this yet it gives me nostalgia

[proud cobalt]

Yeah a bit of an experiment using them on the phases

Awh man

[lucid junco]

Ask Tis for a key

The game will be very good when 1.0 comes out

Trust me

[proud cobalt]

Nah i think it actually has to connect to desura servers, someone on forums said they have a work around but its hosting their own server locally lmao

[lucid junco]

Whats even a desura

[proud cobalt]

Old gaming platform

Long dead

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Desura

[lucid junco]

Ooh

@languid kayak @naive imp Will we attempt to add history to businesses pages?

Like when they were added, expanded ect

[languid kayak]

if someone is up to the task, then I don't mind

[languid kayak]

I had literally hundreds of games there, as I bought all their Indie Royale bundles. Some had Steam keys, some games were only available there @lucid junco

It was before Itch.io was a thing and before Steam Greenlight even, so eveyrone could try their indie here, also had Linux support before Steam even had Mac. The wiki page describes the pz-related stuff and links to relevant sources, at least I tried to explain everything there lol.

There's even still a https://www.reddit.com/r/Desura/ reddit!

[lucid junco]

Ah

I think it didnt reach our mountains

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak @digital helm Feedback for history?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox2

[lucid junco]

Add in some pics for weapon sprite changes maybe?

[proud cobalt]

I like the idea, but it may have to be manual, im not sure how i would be able to verify the right sprite was used automatically as it may look completely different now

[lucid junco]

Yeah, I think the best "automatic" way for this would only be taking every sprite and then comparing them

[proud cobalt]

Ok here's an updated version, includes 0.2.0q and RC 2.5
also has fixed sorting

It's a nice 2.5 million lines

[molten night]

Okay then I'll get to it, thanks for the help mate!!!

[proud cobalt]

1.43 LTS to release in December. Does this finally mean visual editing 🤔
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Version_lifecycle#Versions_and_their_end-of-life

[molten night]

That's sick dude, I'm going to work my @ss of to get in the monthly summaries

[proud cobalt]

Yes this was the issue, wheels had to be imported seperately and manually placed

[lucid junco]

I also think that Released on (or before) this version. should be changed to Released on this version on items that we are sure were released on the particular version

[proud cobalt]

I have no way to be certain of that is the problem. I'm 90% sure its correct, but technically, it could have been on a slightly different version, a beta or IWBUMS version i dont have, an alpha version i dont have etc

0 items are certain

I considered making it just Released on this version for all of them, but i dont like how wrong that could be

[lucid junco]

oh, didnt notice that iwbums versions arent accounted for

[proud cobalt]

Many, if not most of them are. But some are just gone completely. Lost to time

Here's how it looks on a page
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox#History

This is the best way i could find to format the lines, using <br> instead of new lines, it had really weird spacing otherwise

But, it makes it harder to edit, as its a block of text for each row

I guess we could store this all in a template and just call it on the page with a parameter, kind of like we do with crafting. But it does add complexity to edit, particularly for new editors, Unless we kept it autogenerated and the script runs new every update? Cleanliness vs Editability

It would be something like {{HistoryTable|Base.Axe}}

[languid kayak]

looks nice; could definitely use linking to the script parameters especially now that (most at least) should be moved out of subpages

like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/MaxDamage

you're only compare the text changes, right? Technically tracking whether icon changes is possible too, something like SteamDB does, but it's a little more work to do 😛

Also, how much space did all the PZ builds take? Curiosity

[languid kayak]

yeah, I'm having that in the back of the head too, depends when Kirrus finds time and 🤞 there won't be troubles with the actual update 👀

[languid kayak]

we have generally more-or-less complete version history; maybe we can cross check for the missing builds of yours? Me and vail also kept some lua and scripts folders from a lot of b40, b41 and I think vail can have older versions if you'd want just these

[languid kayak]

can slap {{verify}} at worst

[languid kayak]

lost media 👀.

But jokes aside, if you have the disk space, I guess it can be managed.

(Speaking of which, I'm a lazy mf that never got into setting up a NAS all this years)

[lucid junco]

Curious if we can ask someone at tis to give us missing versions

[languid kayak]

We already had this discussion on that chat; it was when the survivor pages were revamped, gotta find it (it was on this channel)

#pzwiki_editing message (feel free to scoll up/down as needed from this)

and here's me pointing to the versions you can actually download #pzwiki_editing message

[naive imp]

I don't have an issue with it but right now we have more pressing matters to worry about imo

[lucid junco]

Im talking about those that are not available for download/empty folders as Calvy pointed out

[lucid junco]

B42 sneak peak

[molten night]

YO THATS SICK

Is it buggy by any chance?

[lucid junco]

100% jank

[molten night]

Dam dude ima go and buy it rn, gotta see if Bob is alright

[lucid junco]

"Wife idle"

No shit

She is fucking dead

[molten night]

NOOOO SHES DEAD

YOU SPOILD THE WHOLE GAME DUDE NOOOOO

Btw I've been meaning to find those old builds are they still accessible via steam?

[lucid junco]

The moodles are exactly the same

[lucid junco]

https://www.moddb.com/games/project-zomboid some can be found here

[molten night]

Perfect dude thanks

[proud cobalt]

Done. And yes only tracking the value changes between versions

[proud cobalt]

171 Versions took up about 500gb

[proud cobalt]

Yeah, but that would put verification on all the pages. Maybe something else to differentiate its for history

[lucid junco]

Which ones are missing again?

[proud cobalt]

These are the versions i have

0.1.2a
0.1.4c
0. 1.5d
0.2.0a
0.2.0e
0.2.0f
0.2.0h
0.2.0i
0.2.0k
0.2.0l
0.2.0q
0.2.0r RC2.5
0.9.7 RC2.5
11
14
19
21
23
25a
25c
26
27
28
29.3
30.12
30.16
31.9
31.10
31.13
32.14
32.16
32.27
32.30
33.13
33.14
33.18
33.19
33.20
34.23
34.27
34.28
35.25b
35.26
36.4
37.2
37.3
37.4
37.5
37.6
37.7
37.8
37.9
37.10
37.11
37.12
37.13
37.14
38.1
38.2
38.3
38.4
38.5
38.7
38.8
38.9
38.10
38.11
38.12
38.13
38.14
38.15
38.16
38.17
38.18
38.19
38.20
38.21
38.22
38.23
38.24
38.25
38.26
38.27
38.28
38.29
38.30
39.45
39.49
39.50
39.51
39.52
39.56
39.57
39.58
39.60
39.64
39.64.1
39.66.3
39.67.1
39.67.2
39.67.3
39.67.5
40.9
40.11
40.14
40.16
40.17
40.18
40.21
40.25
40.26
40.27
40.29
40.30
40.31
40.32
40.33
40.34
40.35
40.36
40.37
40.38
40.39
40.40
40.41
40.42
40.43
41.12
41.14
41.15
41.16
41.17
41.18
41.19
41.20
41.21
41.22
41.23
41.23b
41.24
41.26
41.27
41.28
41.29
41.30
41.31
41.32
41.33
41.34
41.35
41.36
41.37
41.38
41.39
41.40
41.41
41.42
41.43
41.44
41.45
41.46
41.47
41.48
41.49
41.50
41.51
41.52
41.54
41.65
41.66
41.68
41.71
41.71 HOTFIX
41.73
41.77
41.77 HOTFIX
41.77.7
41.77.9
41.78
41.78.12
41.78.13
41.78.15
41.78.16```

[proud cobalt]

I set up my NAS this year, so its going right onto it after im dont with this lol

[proud cobalt]

Whatever is msising from this list 😆 #pzwiki_editing message

[lucid junco]

You can download two versions from moddb

2.9.7 and 0.1.4c

[proud cobalt]

Nice, ill pick those up now

0.1.4c i cant use, but it's cool to have

[proud cobalt]

Haha i used this thread by finding it on the forums

[proud cobalt]

Ok i found two manifests for B27

So we now have a version from 'build' version of the game

Its the really old pre steam versions we're missing

[proud cobalt]

I found 0.1.5d and it has a scripts folder, so this may be the very first possible version that we can use as 0.1.4 didnt have one

@languid kayak You might want this too
https://archive.org/details/pzdesuraalphabeta

[serene sage]

"42.16" 🤨

[proud cobalt]

Oops, 32.16 😉

[serene sage]

aw

[proud cobalt]

Unfortunately. If I had access to B42 I wouldn't be making history sections

[lucid junco]

Oh

it also includes 0-1-4c and 2-9-7 versions

[lucid junco]

Huh

[proud cobalt]

Missing versions I really want to have included:

2.9.8
2.9.6
2.9.5

0.2.0b
0.2.0c
0.2.0d
0.2.0g
0.2.0j
0.2.0m
0.2.0n
0.2.0o
0.2.0p

Experimental combat build

0.2.0r RC1
0.2.0r RC2

0.1.5c
0.1.5b
0.1.5a

0.1.4a
0.1.4b
0.1.4d

0.1.3a```

It may be worth asking TIS if they have some of the old versions?

[lucid junco]

Why not, I don't think that its a big of a deal

[proud cobalt]

You dont happen to still have this?

[quartz bear]

good question

[unique anvil]

I am seeing duplicate entries, is this normal?

Namely 41.78.13 and 41.68

[quartz bear]

i do

you did say you have 0.1.5d

[proud cobalt]

d but not b, was b a mistype?

[quartz bear]

you pointed to my screenshot

which has 0.1.5d

qbitTorrent has a really dumb habit to destroy torrent files after importing

so I don't think I have 0.1.5b

[proud cobalt]

Meant this one #pzwiki_editing message

[quartz bear]

that one torrent file has no seeders so

[proud cobalt]

All good, thanks for looking

[quartz bear]

i found some other magnets but they are all invalid (neither qbit nor µ can parse them)

i'll stay on leech for the funny

[languid kayak]

not that much actually, that's without wny transparent compression?

[languid kayak]

like a category weuse e.g. for media or tiles? That could work too

[languid kayak]

seems a typo indeed

[lucid junco]

Checking out the https://www.moddb.com/games/project-zomboid/articles out of curiosity to find something

Sadly, most of what was uploaded back in 2011 is missing or privated

Interesting

I dont think impatient is even in the game files

https://www.moddb.com/games/project-zomboid/news/the-coding-of-the-living-dead

https://www.moddb.com/games/project-zomboid/news/picking-the-brains-of-pzs-newest-recruit

https://www.moddb.com/games/project-zomboid/news/the-final-countdown1

Where is that?

I dont remember seeing this loc (and others in the article) anywhere

oooh

Thats the old muldraugh

[rotund echo]

That looks like it should be in Louisville

[lucid junco]

It really does

[languid kayak]

isn't it https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Short_Tempered ?

[lucid junco]

Maybe

But there is a short tempered and impatient as separate traits

[languid kayak]

true, maybe that's what an alternative icon was about?

[lucid junco]

Probably

Whats it called in game files?

[lucid junco]

Ive tried for a couple of hours and found almost nothing

Ive found one presumably 0.2.0r RC2 build but it refuses to load

They are so old that the good old russian method of "Project zomboid [version] download" does not work since torrents are long gone

[lucid junco]

Ive found what is presumably a 0.2.0r RC2 on some Brazilian website

But cant confirm if its true and 100% vanilla or not

[proud cobalt]

I don't need it to work, I only need the files. As long as it is RC2 and not RC2.5 it will be useful

[proud cobalt]

Hi @vital raptor
Hoping you're the right person to ping here. I'm working on item history for the wiki and trying to collect as many versions of the game as possible to do so. Unfortunately the pre-steam editions are somewhat lost. I was wondering if you guys had any backups of the following versions and if so would it be possible to get my hands on them? I don't need them in a working/playable state.

2.9.8
2.9.6
2.9.5

0.2.0b
0.2.0c
0.2.0d
0.2.0g
0.2.0j
0.2.0m
0.2.0n
0.2.0o
0.2.0p

Experimental combat build

0.2.0r RC1
0.2.0r RC2

0.1.5c
0.1.5b
0.1.5a

0.1.4a
0.1.4b
0.1.4d

0.1.3a```

[languid kayak]

both are short_temper(ed) and look similar, so maybe not, OTOH icon names never gets changed, even if they have typos/spelling mistakes/whatever

[languid kayak]

Pinning this, also if any of the old timers have any of these old Desura/Google Checkout/Paypal builds sitting on their hard drive somewhere, even if it's incomplete, or a list of files at least, and can dig it up, contact either @proud cobalt , @digital helm or me

[lucid junco]

Maybe also ask folks on reddit, someone had been able to find them on their own, so there is possibility of someone having these versions somewhere on their disks

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/mmofqn/found_project_zomboid_015d/

[proud cobalt]

I actually messaged this guy already, he's the one who uploaded the internet archive file of them

I made a post earlier today

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1gnmbc7/data_hoarders_the_wiki_needs_your_help/

[languid kayak]

about that, I think Kirrus mentioned the verification server is down, so you'd have to either disable the check or make it point to projectzomboid.com for Kirrus to try it to authorize

though nvm, I see you responded to these 😄 I just happened to miss that post for some reason

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i saw a walkthrough on the forums but i'm not that interested, theres other patched versions

[lucid junco]

I do

Would be cool to make a video showing off all versions on pz birthday or something like that

[proud cobalt]

Steam birthday was the 8th November 😆

[languid kayak]

Before Desura was dead, I was planning to download everything from it just in case, but I never got myself to it and just checked, I got nothing for PZ other than the key sadly

[proud cobalt]

Thats very unfortunate

[lucid junco]

Ooh and possibly every map

[languid kayak]

the download links looked something like that (these one is for "Beware Planet Earth!" Full EXE Installer v1.2.5 | BewarePlanetEarth-Setup-v1.2.5.exe) – first game alphabetically because of " lol

http://www.desura.com/gamedownloads/get/3474/662e788c9c71605076a1eb4551b677a8/da692d129ce717195cb58b8db4d868f3

[proud cobalt]

I would love to have a complete collection, Sitting at around 200 versions right now. just over 500gb. Idk how available i can make them

[lucid junco]

Wait, there is a pz trailer?

[proud cobalt]

Lemmy said the old versions are ok on that thread, idk how old is old enough

Probably pre steam

I was able to get B20 this morning too

[languid kayak]

I wonder if the Desura CDN is still archived somewhere, but after it switched hands and companies were bankrupt and developers didn't get the money from the purchases of their games on Desura, I doubt anyone who may get their hands on the actual database will want to do something with it

[proud cobalt]

So i have every major build 11-41 plus i think every stable build, plus the vast majority of unstable/IWBUMS versions. It's actually hard to know what i dont have now

[lucid junco]

I would love to figure out how to compile the maps to make them usable 😅

[languid kayak]

There were two actually 😄

[proud cobalt]

I found an old Amazon S3 bucket link for old versions of the game, but the bucket was dead

[lucid junco]

So far the tileZed refuses to cooperate without guides

[lucid junco]

So its the first one?

And then the one on the steam page

Honestly irl tralers look so cool

[languid kayak]

yeah, tgis one was nice indeed, not really fitting now that the tutorial is gone 😄

the old one with K&B that is

[lucid junco]

I wish we had more trailers like payday 2 live action ones, but nowadays companies prefer animated or pre rendered ones

[languid kayak]

btw @proud cobalt desura content is not only mirrored on moddb, but indiedb too https://www.indiedb.com/games/project-zomboid though both never hosted actual game files and keys so I doubt it'll help. I can access my old Desura account on both, but they don't have the purchase history, just the friends and communities

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i found both in my searching. I also found the brazillian site @lucid junco was talking about. I took the risk and downloaded the two versions there. They seemed legit, no hits on virustotal

[lucid junco]

Oh, yeah, sorry for not uploading it

[proud cobalt]

This is not an endorsement to install them 😆

[proud cobalt]

It's all good, i found them before that message

[lucid junco]

I couldnt quite figure out if it was actually 0.2.0r-rc2 or not, so didnt bother with uploading it

[proud cobalt]

Preservation was much smaller back then, and with desura dead its so unlikely theres more to be found. I've messaged a few people, made reddit post, scoured multiple pages of search results for each version, checked pirate sites galore

[lucid junco]

Its funny how the only one version that could be found so far is the one that was uploaded on mediafire

Torrents are long dead or only have current build of the game

[quartz bear]

The disadvantage of torrents is the need of seeders

And web seeds don't exist for most of them because why would they

[lucid junco]

And they are either have been deleted/disabled completely by now, or have the current version since its more profitable

[languid kayak]

I doubt I'll find anything myself, but out of cusiosity, I'm searching my old HDD, so far the oldest I could find is a save folder from 2013 😄

PlayerGregoryWard
{ 
  Forename=Gregory
  Surname=Ward
  Toppal=Shirt_White;0.17249999940395355,0.2745000123977661,0.541100025177002
  Bottomspal=Trousers_White;0.36000001430511475,0.36000001430511475,0.36000001430511475
  Torso=Male_4
  Hair=Hair_Recede_White;0.572549045085907,0.6235294342041016,0.6549019813537598
  Profession=policeofficer
  Level=0
  GlobalXp=0
  PlayedTime=0
  Male
}
Traits 
{ 
  addTrait=Marksman
  addTrait=Fit
}
Skills 
{ 
  addSkills=Blunt,4
  addSkills=Blade,3
  addSkills=Carpentry,0
}
Bonus 
{ 
  addGoldBoostBonus=1
  addStartingGoldBonus=0
  addXpBoostBonus=1
}

😄

[lucid junco]

I have been able to find russian blog with 2 versions that we don't have currently, but the links don't seem to be working

[quartz bear]

live76?

or smth

[languid kayak]

It'd be Build 14 (?), but I only have the save file

[lucid junco]

Yeah

[quartz bear]

the magnets are fucked there

i said that above

[proud cobalt]

I tried cs rin ru but its dead

The versions

[languid kayak]

wait no, older screenshot_28-10-2013_12-47-39 so it'd be RC 2.9.9.17 (Build 9)

but yeah, still after Steam

[proud cobalt]

First steam build is Build 11 i believe

[languid kayak]

I'm not even 100% sure I played PZ on Desura, I for sure tried the demo but I don't think I even have any files from that time

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/RC_2.9.9 was the first build on Steam apparently

though our version history may have errors too

[proud cobalt]

Project Zomboid was first released on Steam with version 2.9.9.17 (Build 11) 8th November 2013. Version 2.9.9.17 was the start of the currently used "Build X" naming scheme

😄

[languid kayak]

the "build" naming may not have been used by then, I think it was Vail who tried to number them 😄

oh, so the version history build names are wrong probably 😄

[proud cobalt]

Im not sure whos wrong lol, someone must be

[languid kayak]

or idk https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Version_history#Alpha_2.9.9 build 1-10 is what Vail added IIRC, these are pretty much older versions of 2.9.9.17, not sure they are indended to be called builds?

[proud cobalt]

https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1836-steam-release-08th-nov-2013-version-29917-0011/#comment-27157

Some of the versions have (0011) i asume thats where it comes from

[languid kayak]

if you @proud cobalt (or anyone) wants, you can try to load this save with the oldest Steam build and see if the world number is the same (assuming world number is still the thing). I may try doing the same myself later too.

I have these too 😄

Sadly I don't have the Dr. Oids and other games (didn't know about PZ back then), and I think Mash tweeted that the PAWS files are lost too (they never were public)

ProjectZomboid_PublicTechDemo_0_1_4c_plusbatchfix.zip is probably what's publicly available, that's the only PZ file I have

I still have some Desura cache, but I think the most I could find is PZ box art, can zip it if it helps

I don't even know the ID PZ might have had on Desura 🤔 https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Project_Zomboid&oldid=12287 – tried searching on PCGW but it seems such thing was never listed 😩

(I didn't even have the PZ installed there, so yeah, just the icon/box art at most, and these are still available at moddb)

[languid kayak]

Actually, this may have been a Desura build I played

as I have this file from around the same date on the same backup

can share the file, but I honestly have no idea what is it (it's TGA image), just not 100% sure it won't contain any sensitive data

[proud cobalt]

Ill try this out soon, got a couple days off finally

[lucid junco]

Its also interesting that trailer says day 6 is when xxx releases their statement that everything is ok

When its the day when military border falls

It would probably be day 4 at least in the current timeline

[proud cobalt]

2.6 million zomboid files going over network using windows explorer...

[lucid junco]

I dont think we need large amount of data to make a map

[proud cobalt]

I'd prefer to have the full files for preservation

[languid kayak]

most likely it was changed down the line, yeah

[languid kayak]

I think Windows explorer is notably slow for the small files, unless something changes in recent versions

Not sure what filesystem the NAS is using, but I guess it should be faster there lol

I remember I used https://www.codesector.com/teracopy back in the days, not sure how it stands right now 😄

[lucid junco]

And working poorly with any sound files

[languid kayak]

as in creating audio?

[lucid junco]

As in viewing folders with audio files

[languid kayak]

seems it was the case from the winxp era 😩

pages like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item/cs and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Evolved_recipes/ja seems to have some red links to pages like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Sandwich_Recipe – should I make the redirects for these? Or maybe we should just remove the pages at one point (or at least links?) Was hoping they'd be remade eventually, but we didn't see anyone up for the task so far sadly, so these pages are mostly getting more and more outdated.

Though some old names may be of use for you @proud cobalt if you'd be messing with the history.

[languid kayak]

seems the Experimental combat build had the same number as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Patch_0.2.0q according to the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtVcCgH6jk, so you should double check your 0.2.0q in case if it's actually Experimental combat one, and if you have it from two sources, then it'd be best to compare checksums of the files

I'm going to update the wiki with the info, too.

but I guess the file name should be called zomboid20test.zip from
https://s3.amazonaws.com/alpha.projectzomboid.com/zomboid020test.zip

This theoreitcally should be one of the easier ones for someone to have, since it was distributed publicly. Maybe CaptainBinky still has the archive, or that youtuber (or anyone from the forum from testing from that time?)

heh,I realized that Beta Blockers had these icon https://youtu.be/kZtVcCgH6jk?feature=shared&t=88 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Pills2.png – didn't knew, gonna reflect that 🙂

I should probably watch some of those old videos for these kinds of discoveries 😄

[languid kayak]

Was hoping you have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Patch_0.1.6a on there since you didn't list it but you listed https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Patch_0.1.4d but seems not 😛

[languid kayak]

seems the same for the sleeping pills: https://youtu.be/kZtVcCgH6jk?feature=shared&t=409

[languid kayak]

Mom, can we have build 42?
We have build 42 at home

The link goes to [[Hunting]] which redirects to Build 42 😄

wanted to save the old TIS logo from the forums and then realized it's a flash 😄 Now that I think of I forgot the old forums used flash but they did indeed. Thanks for Ruffle for keeping it alive!

[lucid junco]

Yeah, pain pills used to have current beta blockers icon

[languid kayak]

I didn't really play any old version other than the tech demo before buying the game, and even there I only remember fighting zombies and not icons 😄

[languid kayak]

Seems it's those three so far I figured, by playing the RC 2.5 from Mediafire or web archive:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sleeping_Tablets#Gallery https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Pills4.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Antidepressants#Gallery https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Pills3.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Beta_Blockers#Gallery https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Pills2.png

There's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Pills.png but it's a duplicate of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:PillsBetablocker.png too

and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:PillsBetablocker2.png that weren't ever used for anything it seems?

[molten night]

i feel stupid asking but i need help adding a png to the wiki page that im working on. and im trying to add these ones for now, i know theres a page that says what to do but i got really confused when trying to

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:DeadPerson_MaleZombie.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Moodle_Icon_HeavyLoad.png

To add them to a page use [[File:DeadPerson_MaleZombie.png]] or [[File:Moodle_Icon_HeavyLoad.png]] respectively

see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Images for details

[molten night]

thank you so much i understand it now.

[languid kayak]

btw, seems like we got some misunderstanding here? https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/comments/1go57xc/thank_you_wiki_very_helpful/

It does require account, but it's not a FANDOM wiki

[languid kayak]

done https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tooks in manner of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Incontileve – feel free to improve the both, the Tooks one I slapped {{stub}} just in case

[proud cobalt]

Yes it is 😂 it was much faster for me to plug my hard drive into the nas and use Linux

[proud cobalt]

I'm pretty much just going to use the scripts files for history. I won't be digging deeper than that

[proud cobalt]

Oh God that makes things harder too 😂 though that's the Amazon bucket I tried which is dead

[languid kayak]

I'm really surprised it didn't survive despite being public download… 🤔

I've sent you probably way too much messages on DM, spending probably way too much on researching the topic, but it seems that pretty much all the old builds may be loss to time, so best bet would be finding folks (devs included) having the data on their hard drives 😩. Unless you can reach to Desura whic is mostly unlikely.

I have few torrents in the background, but unless that one person who originally uploaded the files still has them and pops online, the best we could get is the file list.

Other than that, I think out of these three independantly released 0.2.0r builds, one is RC 2.5 and one is either RC 2.0 (which I believe) or RC 1.0.

Then I think the best bet would be finding either:
0.2.0q experimental combat build (it was publicly available)
or
0.1.5b (for some reason I found multiple torrents with this exact version)
or maybe
0.1.4b (this seems to be the version that leaked? I found one torrent with it)

The others are mostly lost in time, except maybe some RC 2.9.x builds which are hard to nail due to versioning being confusing at that point.

That unless someone from TIS (or old desura players) suddenly pops with the files (but these seem to be uploaded on various sources over time anyway, one from a Reddit user which in turn uploaded the files to archive.org and one from EnigmaGrey, being probably an uplaoder closest to the TIS at the time).

For the lost versions, the best bet we can get are

1. Patch notes archived from the old forms (the old forums are dead now I believe, but should be archived on web.archive and the actual notes should be on the wiki)
2. Gameplay of people playying it (there aren't many, but are some)

[lucid junco]

What are they mad about

That wiki clarified that all of the scenarios currently implemented (apart from six month) is on day 0?

How dare the wiki not give leap way for misunderstanding

[grizzled wagon]

It's me. That's my post. I'm not mad, it's supose to be humorous.

[lucid junco]

[grizzled wagon]

I just find it a funny list

[languid kayak]

your post was fine, though folks saying things are missing elsewhere are definitely are up to the #pzwiki_editing message 😄

[lucid junco]

Nontoxic response from reddit

This isn't written in my protocols

[grizzled wagon]

I gave up on reddit years back. I only go there occasionally for PZ

[proud cobalt]

It was only 56 messages 😆

I dont mind

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search=ver31.9&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=all&fulltext=1 leaving it for ponteial history updates too

[molten night]

how can i make areas of text like these?, im having a lot of fun makeing these and wanted to do erosion becouse it seemed interesting and was missing a page in the spanish version

[proud cobalt]

*Erosion started out as a mod created by now developer [[Kees Bekkema|TurboTuTone]] (Turbo) released in late 2013 on The Indie Stone forum. Turbo later joined the team in the second half of 2014, with the implementation of erosion being his first task.
*In [[Build 41#Build 41.78|build 41.78]] tree regions are added only when the area is first loaded, which means it's not a renewable source.{{verify}}```

Thats the source for that section. Make lists with an asterisk *

[molten night]

thanks mate

[molten night]

hey another thing, is it important adding a summary if your the one making the page or no

[proud cobalt]

For creating a page i will usually just leave the summary "Created page". It's a good habit to always leave a summary

[molten night]

okay thanks then

[digital helm]

That would've been the old map, when it was Knox County. When they thought muldraugh was in Knox County. Map got remade with the steam release

[lucid junco]

Can be found... Where?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jackie_Jaye

[proud cobalt]

I assume it just means a LMBW radio van can spawn, shouldnt be presumed driven by Jackie though

[lucid junco]

Yeah

There is also Frank Hemingway

And other numerous journalists, crew teams and other employees working in both LBMW Network and LBMW 93.2

[rotund echo]

Only as a ruined car

LBMW - Kentucky Radio vans (not to be confused with LBMW Network) don't spawn as drivable vehicles

[lucid junco]

Yeah, I know

[rotund echo]

Where the hell is our police pickup truck

Why does it only spawn as a ruined car

[lucid junco]

Doesn't change that there are numerous other people that could have driven the radio van

[proud cobalt]

#pzwiki_editing message

[lucid junco]

He means in game

[proud cobalt]

I know

[lucid junco]

Why no pickup

[proud cobalt]

Thats just how it would look

Its sick

[lucid junco]

Yeah

Id say better than both police cars we have now

[rotund echo]

We have police cruiser and police van

they're nice, but why no police pickup 😭

[lucid junco]

B42 will have it hopefully

Its secretly a police pickup update

[rotund echo]

One thing I do know is that Build 42 will have police sports cars

[lucid junco]

Noone cares about the lighting, give us the pickup/j

[lucid junco]

And more Franklin valulines

[rotund echo]

We need fuel tank trucks (perhaps Chevalier D6 with a fuel cistern on its back lol)

[lucid junco]

Maybe also add more fuel types, Diesel and Gasoline at least

Imagine driving to gas station, only to find that its fuel is incompatible with your car

And that's on top of fuel spoilage

[rotund echo]

Diesel is more fuel efficient, makes more torque, but its harder to get diesel engines running in the cold

[rotund echo]

Mainly I said that because I want to transport large amounts of fuel to my home for the generator

[proud cobalt]

Fuel spoilage and fuel stabalizer would be cool. Getting out early to get barrels of fuel and adding fuel stabilizer. The gas quality degrades over time. Would be pretty niche though most people dont last that long.

[lucid junco]

Ive been a bit mad about it until I found out that gasoline spoils in 3-5 months

Never played for that long cause it becomes boring after 2 month

[proud cobalt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQFkbg7he-4

[rotund echo]

Only Louisville can keep me motivated

[rotund echo]

I wonder why this was reverted 😄

Its just a trivia and facts (about real-life), nothing political here

[proud cobalt]

No need for it tbh. All characters are fictional. There was some discussion here before he reverted it.

[lucid junco]

Kinda non relevant?

The game does not reference real life events and people all that much

And there is no connection between pz's US President and Bill Clinton

(unless we want to get political but we don't)

[rotund echo]

Well, its just a little fun fact, and trivia sections are just that

[languid kayak]

you can play different character on the save, something that will be encouraged in b42 along with years later mode. Also servers

[proud cobalt]

True, i always start a new world so that never occured to me

[rotund echo]

Same I always do new game

[digital helm]

They're for fun facts, but only if relevant to the game. I don't believe the irl president at the time is relevant to the game. I feel an in-text link to the US president wikipedia article would be sufficient

Here's my thoughts on trivia #pzwiki_editing message

[languid kayak]

oh, there's one easter egg we missed: https://youtu.be/RmjPQhxbF3k?feature=shared&t=238

Carton & Sydney Law Services

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Carton

[serene sage]

why is it always a law firm

[languid kayak]

😄

(added btw)

[lucid junco]

(Non related but I hate seeing 2 ads every time I try to use discords player)

[lucid junco]

Cause devs can easily get away with putting names in them probably

[serene sage]

I'm going over Fuberti's changes to the March Ridge article since he spelt "trivia" as "trivial" again, but I'm thinking that maybe the trivia section isn't even needed, because the info is not really important: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/March_Ridge#Trivial

all he mentions is that there is a bunker in Build 42 and that the town houses military personnel and their families

[languid kayak]

there are ads on Discord youtube embeds? I don't have those luxkily as I use the browser version

[serene sage]

he also removed the future tag from a sentence in the Vehicle article talking about a b42 feature

[serene sage]

not even sure how people discover these easter eggs besides searching every single in-game business on google

maybe they just consume more media than me

[lucid junco]

Its irrelevant info

[serene sage]

yeah, thought so

[lucid junco]

And wording is not good

Thats the main issue

It can stay there, but needs to be reworded to wiki standards/language

[serene sage]

whoops, I already nuked the entire section

[lucid junco]

Eh, thats fine

[serene sage]

I also added back the future tag on the vehicle page

[languid kayak]

Fuberti's changes are always far fetched 😩. I get the thinking point, I think noting that March Ridge is military (I only learned about the military apartments really late, and it'd explain why there's a checkpoint at the border) may be good unless we don't have it, but taking guesses further is not really needed

also thanks for doing it, as I didn't caught with the recent changes yet

[lucid junco]

If we were to reword it Id say
Military underground bunker is teased to be added in [[build 42]].
Or something like that

[serene sage]

I found him removing the future tag from a b42 feature pretty funny

anyway, I also believe that the trivia section on the vehicles page is too long

there are three points there all about new b42 vehicle liveries

can be shortened to one imo

[lucid junco]

Remove the sounds thing, merge upcoming cars and/or move them to the gallery, merge upcoming reworks into 1-2 sentences

Or better yet, if there is enough info and images, we can add in "Future features" section and put them there

Unrelated, but @naive imp , did you know that there is a walk through of the CGE corp building?

[naive imp]

Elaborate?

[lucid junco]

Oh, wait, there was one

[naive imp]

BTW sorry I haven't been active as much lately yall, been busy with this

You know how it is

[lucid junco]

It was removed from the page some time ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASWqZq-_2CY

[naive imp]

That was probably ikip. I don't think you ever met him

There was a whole thing he got banned I don't wanna get into it lol

[lucid junco]

No, but I've run into his work while remaking the signs and was less than impressed

And businesses pages

And isometric images

[naive imp]

Look at his user page and you'll get the idea

He had a habit of leaving pages an absolute mess then having a temper tantrum when someone edited his work

Edit warred like crazy

Then he went on a huge political tirade about how the usa is bad and Russia is good and said China would be his partner in "cold War 2"

And he thought he was so cool for being an American living in Russia and a bunch of other typical facist crazy talk

So yeah not very conducive to wiki conduct

[lucid junco]

Seeing this gave me enough understanding that we wouldn't be able to work together

[naive imp]

Oh my god I wonder how mental he would have gotten when you started the logos

Oh BOY

[lucid junco]

Im not saying that Im free from leaving some things unfinished or taking long time to finish them, but make an image of this quality and thinking that its good enough is outrageous

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm Should we mention somewhere on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Zombie that they are not actually referred in game lore as "zombies"?

[serene sage]

he’s american? color me surprised

[lucid junco]

Walking dead, dead, zeds, infected

[serene sage]

the magazine models do have a caption/title reading “zombies ate my wife!” though

just something weird to think about

[lucid junco]

It does

[serene sage]

might not be canon though

might be similar to some other game I played

some character referenced an “italian bistro” when the concept of italy and italians never existed in-universe

[lucid junco]

There is another source of zombies

[serene sage]

mm hmm

[serene sage]

I definitely should have known that

I’m not even sure where someone got the info that the concept of zombies never existed in the lore

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/themoreyouknow-star-rainbowstreak-nbc-gif-4884642

[lucid junco]

Its not the concept that never existed is up to debate, but the term used to describe them

there is not a single usage of "zombie(s)" on the radio or tv

[serene sage]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-objection-capcom-gif-20965907

what about this?

it says that the modern concept of “zombies” never existed

so the very existence of shamblers in media is at stake

either that or someone made it all up

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-attorney-drink-gif-15245908

[serene sage]

so it’s wrong, your honor

[lucid junco]

Concept of walking undead is present in the game

Since terms to describe them, especially the slang is used

you couldnt come to zeds if you dont know what a zombie is

[serene sage]

like I said, it means this ain’t true

[serene sage]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-objection-capcom-gif-20965907

terms are arbitrary

human constructs

[lucid junco]

Cant argue with that

Thats why we define that they mean X thing in this context

So we can clarify that zombies in game go under terms other than "zombies"

[serene sage]

oh is that what you mean?

I read it as “they’re not called zombies at all”

[flat sun]

when asked about this pat bren was deliberately vague so there's probably something weird going on

[lucid junco]

They are referred to as zombies in game

but Ive specifically said in the lore

due to only encountering other term usage in media files

[flat sun]

i think the trivia should probably be reworded as it sounds very definitive, but the fact that nobody's going 'oh my god real zombies' is probably intentional

[thin cloud]

Z stands for Zinfected

[serene sage]

bruh what

[thin cloud]

It's deliberately vague. I would consider a mention of zeds as an error

[lucid junco]

[serene sage]

so I’m right

pat confirmed they don’t really exist

[lucid junco]

That includes every direct usage of zeds and zombies in annotated maps?

[lucid junco]

Maybe zeds were the friends we made along the way

[serene sage]

friends? been slaughtering tons of them

[thin cloud]

Any of those have been removed I think

[serene sage]

in b42?

at least one still does in 41.78.16

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-three-gif-19489818

Wait

What is this map

[thin cloud]

In 42

An error

Don't bother updating any wiki stuff for 42 before release though imo, that's a rabbit hole

[lucid junco]

Aighty, thats good to confirm

[serene sage]

cool

[lucid junco]

@serene sage Do you know about World map annotated maps?

[serene sage]

no?

[lucid junco]

In the bottom of the

it mentiones dixie

One of the radio relay stations(?)

Valley station camping grounds

And one of the Bens cabins(probably)

Which is weird, since they are not anywhere on the excisting paper maps

[serene sage]

interesting

[lucid junco]

Oh, and that one intersection after dixie and muldraugh

Gas station, spiffos, clothes, cars

@proud cobalt May be a dumb question, but when were npc's removed from the game?

Wiki lists 2013 2.9 release but I dont see it anywhere in the patchnotes

[lucid junco]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troika_laundromat @languid kayak @digital helm
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/ARRA_Pitch maybe?

[proud cobalt]

The iron curtain 2 is his PZwiki ban in this instance 😆 . #pzwiki_editing message

[proud cobalt]

I have no idea lmao. Might be a better question for @languid kayak or @digital helm

[languid kayak]

seems they were present between 0.1.5a and 0.2.0r rc 2.5, not sure if it was 0.1.5b though #pzwiki_editing message

[molten night]

I'm not responding directly to pat_Bren, but I always thought the name zeds where a bit odd, given the game had a unique name for these creatures, but I'm happy they changed it to the standard and added them as zombies instead of zeds, always got me confused.

[lucid junco]

https://projectzomboid.com/blog/news/2013/04/rc3-development-developments/

So npcs were delayed in 2.9

[serene sage]

and still delayed

[flat sun]

'In order to finalise work on NPCs'

[lucid junco]

Urm, actually npcs are still in game in form of zombies

And upcoming animals are also npcs

https://projectzomboid.com/blog/news/2013/12/fundoid-mondoid/

[rotund echo]

Hey.... That's West Point...

[lucid junco]

So yeah, npcs were removed during rc 2.9 development (or after rc2.5)

[rotund echo]

Crossroads Mall? Only hundreds they say? Hundreds is an easy job!

Why the hell have I yet to come to Crossroads Mall? That's because its not hundreds of zombies, its thousands!!!

Wait... Will the fcking Valley Station have maps for it, finally?

[serene sage]

technically there might be (small) “maps” for places like tanglewood

because of the flyers revealing areas

[lucid junco]

And rc 2.9 should have a message about removal of npcs...

[serene sage]

it wouldn’t be a stretch to have maps as well

[lucid junco]

@proud cobalt can you check if there is a message like that in rc2.9.1?

[rotund echo]

I just hope Valley Station will be fixed with the heatmap changes in Build 42

[serene sage]

what’s broken there? never stopped by there for more than two in-game hours

[rotund echo]

Its mostly just stupid farmlands, and stupid backwoods roads

But this is what the heatmap looks like

[serene sage]

so basically it’s comparable to LV for basically nothing

[rotund echo]

Yes

Its basically just a shittier version of Louisville

[serene sage]

LV but only the mall, and also we shrunk the mall, and also we took away the gun store so there’s little point in coming

[rotund echo]

Crossroads Mall is more dense and fucked the Grand Ohio Mall

[serene sage]

damn

[lucid junco]

Im curious where Dickhead, Fucker and Asshole would be

[rotund echo]

The Crossroads Mall and StarEPlex complex have thousands of zombies there, the Grand Ohio Mall doesn't come close to Crossroads level

[lucid junco]

There is only shooting range in valley station to find guns

[rotund echo]

And the Louisville fence, but I'd say anything on the other side of that fence is "Louisville"

[lucid junco]

Doe valley is a better place to find guns than the place with guns on their logo

[rotund echo]

Valley Station be having its own merch 😭

I really think Valley Station has potential, just... Not in its current state infested as hell

[serene sage]

interesting

[lucid junco]

Its debatable if the military border is in LV or Valley, but anything past it is definitely lv

That's why its called LV border camp

[serene sage]

no wonder why the mall seemed emptier than the vids of people at the crossroads

still died though

[rotund echo]

Yeah, and also Crossroads Mall is flanked from all sides by zombies, Grand Ohio Mall is in the far northeast of Louisville, so there's nothing to its north or east

I've actually been to Grand Ohio Mall before, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be

[proud cobalt]

I don't have 2.9.1 closest i have after that is is 2.9.7

[lucid junco]

Thats aight, can you check it anyway?

[proud cobalt]

2.9.7 was walled by desura DRM. 2.9.9.10 was the next i have, it has no message

In 0.2.0r RC2.5 i cannot find any NPCs, but there are some options at the bottom that indicate tone when speaking? And a quest manager in the top right. I've never played this version so i assume thats what they mean

Wait i just found one

So definitely still in 0.2.0r 2.5

[lucid junco]

Alright, It would be nice if we had the message saved and maybe uploaded under the version page

[lucid junco]

Crossroads is so bad, that one of the employees decided to shoot their boss in there

Truly a Birmingham of malls

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Final_Regards

[rotund echo]

Sweet Jesus

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak (and others)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Adverts
Id lift the {{Improve}} myself, but Id love to think what others feel about it

As far as transcribing individuals goes its mostly done, with a few possible tweaks

Sadly some of the people there will remain as "Person" or "Person 1"

[languid kayak]

We kinda discussed changing NPC to AI as the category name, to be less confusing. Technically animals will use what will be an NPC code, least that was the plan last we heard as you linked (I think it's this blog; I didn't read it :P), but everyone referring to NPC doesn't mean animals or zombies unanimously

We call them Survivors here… but survivor stories and survivor groups are dead survivors lol

[lucid junco]

I think zeds were referred to as npcs somewhere in mondoids

[digital helm]

Yeah I think that reference is fine. Re the Strugatsky brothers, I'd say they were referenced as they are fictional authors, adding to the phoney practice

[digital helm]

That's right. RC 2.9 they were removed, in the lead up to the steam release

[lucid junco]

Well, good to confirm it anyway

[digital helm]

*iirc 😄

[lucid junco]

And it wasn't somewhere partway into the 2.9, but from the starters

[digital helm]

From the versions we have, it's anything in 2013 onwards didn't have NPCs

specifically April

[lucid junco]

It would be better if we had the message that tis put up about removing bob and kate tutorial

But thats not happening until we collect all rc2.9 versions

[digital helm]

I think the mondoid you shared is good enough

[digital helm]

I think it's good. I'm going to remove the improve notice

[lucid junco]

Maybe use links where company names are mentioned?

[molten night]

i need some assistence again, when trying to add and/or in spanish witch is y/o i cant get it to becoume like the beautifully added and, can someone assist

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak

Is it ` ? 😅

[languid kayak]

hm?

you mean the error above?

[lucid junco]

The no wiki thing that disables special symbols

[languid kayak]

<nowiki> and </nowiki>?

[lucid junco]

yeah

or am I misremembering something

[molten night]

That "and" is driving me crazy dude

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm Ive in the past mentioned desire to put Assisting studios somewhere in the credits.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Sharpgolden/sandbox#Development
Can you say if this implementation is good enough?

[thin cloud]

That tape is not a reference to anything specific, only the many shady characters and schemes in Russia after the end of the Soviet Union

[thin cloud]

I'm sure they're fine

[lucid junco]

So we were overthinking it all along, oh well. Thank you for clarification as always Pat

[serene sage]

@languid kayak I'm changing out the images on my user page so these two images are no longer used and can be deleted: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Mid_profile_corpse_2.png https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Mid_profile_injured.png

marking them with speedy deletion since I expect there will be no objections to it, but just wanted to let you know

[proud cobalt]

Hey mate I've fixed this up for you. The AND section is a template called with {{&}}. I've made a Spanish translation for you that should work in the same way but show y/o on /es pages

[digital helm]

Yeah, links in the transcripts are good I think. I did that for some of the VHS transcripts previously

[digital helm]

I think the assisting studios section is good, but I don't think the table of members is necessary. They can be listed on their own pages. Probably not necessary for TIS either, considering the huge amount of people now.
@tulip kiln did some work here, so may have some thoughts

[languid kayak]

Let me introduce @serene sage as the new Project Lore leader, everyone!

I was mailing with Ksilem, and he will have to serve his military duty soon. He'll be away from the wiki for the 6 months, but he suggested mid as a leader for the position, due to huge work done in that field.

After some quick talks with other project leaders and mid, we agreed everything is OK, so I'll be updating the project shortly! (also when hopefully catching a little on my wiki backlog as you were all really active these weeks :P)

[languid kayak]

Speaking of projects, lately I've been thinking of maybe adding two projects:

1. One would be project history, basically encompassing Calvy's work on collecting old versions and documenting history, would focus on

• a history section in all the pages (aside of the ones done by Calvy, these are still present in non-English pages and can be found in the page history)
• each version history / patch notes page and the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Version_history
• probably encompass the neglected pages like PAWS, The Forgotten Element, Dr. Oids and other TIS games, maybe even some TIS hirees pages
• maybe even go toward documenting some historical wiki stuff (past admins, past main pages, styles, history of the pzwiki)
  This project would also serve as a call to arms page for collecting the missing Desura builds where people could easily point to or share info

2. Another would be project item or something along the lines, the purpose being mostly a way to track what we do with the item pages (splitting, updating the information) and navboxes – these are mostly left in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks for now and not really organized.

Thoughts?

(and yeah, kinda leaving you guys with it, as it's 1:30 AM; still gonna be for a short whilte, but gonna go to sleep soon :P)

[serene sage]

sounds alright, seems like both of those things require a lot of work

I think Project History would be pretty fun

[languid kayak]

yeah, that's I guess one thing I've been holding, it'd be more of a drawing board instead of getting peoeple to work, at least at current state, since there's mostly few of us 😛

Though at least the organizational side might be less messy, maybe we can at least keep track of what's still left to do, especially with the subprojects

[serene sage]

I've never played anything other than B41 so it'd be cool to check out some of the older builds

2d sprites *shudder*

[languid kayak]

@rotund echo is it Sports instead of Sport for sure as per https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Chevalier_Cossette&diff=621361&oldid=511903 ?

Asking since https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicle#Types refers to it as Sport.

Maybe we should revive https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Vehicles_and_Mechanics at one point too? This is one of the oldest-closed projects, and while there's nothing much new on the horizon as far as vehicles goes (except some new types in b42), the vehicles still could use some attention in their current 41.78.16 form.

[languid kayak]

When browsing my disk searching for the old Desura builds, I found my comparison of 1x tiles and 2x tiles 😛 The 1x tiles can still be enabled in options btw, back then there were only those 😄

[serene sage]

you mean this option?

[languid kayak]

(jumping through topics, sorry guys) @proud cobalt you think it's best where the oldest version is on top in the history section? I initially though the newest one would pop at the top to be more noticable, though it'd be me, OTOH reading it from top to bottom would be in chronological order, example here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Laines_Auto_Manual_-_Performance_Models#History

[languid kayak]

yup

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i figured reading it from top to bottom, you start with when the item was added, and finish where it is now

[languid kayak]

it makes sense, I wonder what others think?

I also wonder if we still need the "Help PZwiki by adding to this history." if it's (mostly) automated

[proud cobalt]

I was planning on removing it, so probably should be done now. Doesn't need any more calling out than editing any other part of the article

Done

[rotund echo]

In game, it is "Sport", but eh, I don't think people really care if its called "Sport" or "Sports"

[languid kayak]

probably 🤔 I guess best to keep it uniform though?