pzwiki_editing

[drifting seal]

I held by it if I needed to do some generative documentation for modding stuff in the future.

[proud cobalt]

All bots have to have their user agent added manually by Kirrus now

[drifting seal]

Yeah he did that for me I think back in the day.

I remember having to use a specific user-agent.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:JabBot

I don't need it right now. Just saw that msg and went.. "oh darn ok."

[proud cobalt]

It might still work than, bots stopped working in about Febuary with new cloudflare updates

[drifting seal]

But as a person I'm still around.

All good.

If I do need it again I'll check in.

[proud cobalt]

Yeah its not permanent. If you want to use it again just swing by

[drifting seal]

I'm basically doing heavy-lifting as a wiki-like person but more-so in the modding realm with documentation mapping for coding plugins / environments. =)

People use my environment tools like people use wiki for playing the game. =)

[proud cobalt]

Modding is still fairly unmaintained, particularly specifics. There was a group of modders interested in updating the wiki but nothing has come of it yet

[drifting seal]

So I'll be around the wiki at some point.

I made several software around third-party documentation support for the game's code. It's very wiki-energy. <3

Just need to get things solid before making my trip to making and working on pages to help people out.

Build 42 is going to be one hell of a ride for the wiki. I do not look forward to seeing that chaos.

Kudos to the brave soldiers on the front-lines.

[proud cobalt]

Actually we're quite prepared for B42. We should have automated pages for every new item up in the first few days, so long as the entire codebase doesnt change format

[drifting seal]

ZedScript is changing for Build 42.

You might need to adapt to the new format(s) for item categories (maybe?)

[proud cobalt]

I dont know what that is tbh

[drifting seal]

I read that there's structural & syntactic changes to it.

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm ^

[drifting seal]

It's what I use to call the .txt definition files

For modules and item definitons etc.

[proud cobalt]

Well that may effect things

[drifting seal]

I'm sure the devs will give yall help when that time comes.

It's what I remember when asking about it with some people about half a year back.

I wrote a parser & API for managing those scripts for Build 41. I'll need to do the same thing when Build 42 hits IWBUMS.

[proud cobalt]

https://github.com/Vaileasys/pz-wiki_parser/blob/main/scripts/parser/item_parser.py

This is the project Vail and I have been working on

To parse things for the wiki

[drifting seal]

Hahah python. <3

I did mine in TypeScript / JS.

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=asledgehammer.zedscript-vscode
https://github.com/asledgehammer/ZedScript-VSCode

[proud cobalt]

Oh intersting, I think Vail uses VS i use pycharm

[drifting seal]

I write tools for modding so this is a vscode extension to aid in writing this ZedScript.

I really hope they make a format extension and stop using .txt so I can really support it properly as a extension.

_>

[proud cobalt]

Using txt has always seemed weird to me

[flat sun]

recently i've been writing a python library for zedscript parsing that may be of use, but it's not in a publishable state and probably won't be for a few more weeks

[drifting seal]

Oh yes. Very yes.

[flat sun]

i also plan to get my events documentation publishing to the wiki *eventually*, probably after that's in a good state

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm That's very interesting too

Hopefully changes dont break that too than

[drifting seal]

Don't worry. There's modders here helping out with libraries and things that might save wiki-friends some time. <3

[flat sun]

they probably will but i imagine it won't be too rough to fix, they definitely won't change anything fundamental or we'd've heard about it by now

[drifting seal]

Honestly we need a more cohesive and consistent syntax and a file-extension.. and an official name. I kept pushing "ZedScript".

[proud cobalt]

❤️ Appreciated, Vail is a self described amateur and I wouldn't even put myself that high yet lmao

[flat sun]

i've heard zedscript from devs a few times now, i'd say it's close enough to official

[proud cobalt]

.ZS

[drifting seal]

or .zed

Either works. Anything works.

It wouldn't be much work in the codebase to apply this change.

[proud cobalt]

I just hope theres some real effort put into cleaning up the files. Calling something newitems.txt is insane to me

[drifting seal]

A lot of deprecated / no-longer-working properties are used.

When I wrote a hard filter / detection for this the vanilla files started populating with warnings.

[proud cobalt]

The lua files are also a mess

[drifting seal]

Also a lot of categorical properties that don't belong.

[proud cobalt]

It's 13 years of cleanup that just needs to be done now before it gets worse

[drifting seal]

The Lua interpreter PZ uses lets some syntax errors slide actually. =)

But yeah ZedScript goodies.

Hopefully we'll get some in our Build 42 gift-basket.

[proud cobalt]

Oh while people that kind of know the pz files are around, do you know how to parse tile definitions cleanly?

[drifting seal]

One such thing could be made but it'd need to likely be made for parsing that info specifically.

I haven't messed with tile definitions myself.

[proud cobalt]

I just cant do it, i dont have the knowledge

[flat sun]

i've never seen them but i'm sure i could figure it out

[proud cobalt]

From the very little i could work out, it seems 0A is some kind of diliniator, 0A 15 00 00 00 is between items? But then it just breaks half way through

[drifting seal]

I could look at how the Java side parses it and write a similar parser in a script language.

That's how I'd do it.

[proud cobalt]

If that is a possbility, that would be incredibly helpful. I would find what i think was a rule then try to parse with that but then it would just break. I dont have the experience to find out how PZ does it and try replicate it

[flat sun]

yeah it looks like something like that

it might be size of next element in some way

[proud cobalt]

You'd think so, then you get to a block that looks like this...

[flat sun]

beautiful...

[drifting seal]

Definitely save yourself the trouble and decompile the parser in the game.

[proud cobalt]

Then it acts like it never happened

[drifting seal]

If you need a simple parser lib for Tile Definition files then I could put this on a list of things to do.

It doesn't look like something crazy hard to write.

I'd just need like a day to do it.

[flat sun]

yeah the format looks overall very straightforward, there's some weird extra thing going on but i'm sure if you looked at a decompile of the parser it'd become apparent

[proud cobalt]

That would be really good, i use it to make the tile pages for the wiki

[drifting seal]

Alright. I'd probably make it in JS or something.

[proud cobalt]

Whatever works best for you is fine

[drifting seal]

I'm also writing in Python lately but it's Py2.

[proud cobalt]

Curious, whys that?

[drifting seal]

Jython only supports Python 2.7.3 atm.

I wrote support for modding Project Zomboid in Python lately.

[proud cobalt]

Oh did you show this somewhere? I swear i saw that

[drifting seal]

A couple places yeah. I have the burden of documenting the thing through so I'll need to write a wiki for it.

https://github.com/asledgehammer/Pythoid-Example-Mods/tree/41.78.16

[proud cobalt]

If you want to add any of it to PZwiki in the modding section feel free. Even if its just a page about what it is, what it does, and a link to your wiki

[drifting seal]

If used enough it could be a bit of a game-changer. It exposes the whole environment, not just what Lua locks down in PZ currently. =)

[proud cobalt]

Very interesting, Is there any performance hit?

[drifting seal]

Actually no. The Jython interpreter compiles Python to Java bytecode so there's little interop slowdown, especially when compared to the LVM of Kahlua which is incredibly slow.

I wouldn't say it eliminates the need for Lua. It adds a pseudo-java-like addition between the Java and Lua where you can do more to adapt the Java-side prior to any or alongside Lua.

I can sub-class IsoObject or anything not finalized in Java and it can be used in Lua as objects. =)

[proud cobalt]

Getting a little over my head haha but thats really cool. Huge project

[drifting seal]

Not as huge as the third-party mapping of documentation to Lua environments. <3 Worth it though.

@proud cobalt <3

Think of the wiki but designed specifically around coders who mod PZ. <3

a 2+ year long project so far.

[proud cobalt]

Theres some insane people in this community

[drifting seal]

https://tenor.com/view/tlou-the-last-of-us-joel-ellie-car-gif-27185130

[quasi thunder]

Okay, thanks

What is it?

[proud cobalt]

This is for translating inside the wiki parser

[quasi thunder]

Is this code somewhere on the Wiki itself, or only in this document?

[proud cobalt]

No it's a project seperate to the wiki

[quasi thunder]

And this?

[proud cobalt]

They're for the seperate project, but are wiki templates

[quasi thunder]

Do I need to translate it directly in the document, or can I just translate the template on wiki?

[proud cobalt]

It's better if you translate the document and send it to me, so I can make sure it's done

[quasi thunder]

How to translate it at all?

Cond.#Chan.

[proud cobalt]

[[Condition/uk]]

[quasi thunder]

Huh? Bonus months? Malus months?

Well... I translated it, although I think that in some places I might not have translated accurately due to a lack of understanding of the essence.

[robust latch]

Thats completely fine, because they are templates and any translation can be changed at any time

Bonus and malus months are for foraging, so for example orange's bonus months would be something like November December January, and malus months would be June July August

[lucid junco]

Were you banned from wiki?

If some translation is context sensitive or could be translated better with context then look up the English version of the text into a wiki search bar, to look for pages where that section is included

You can also contact some other translators or people that know English and Ukrainian if you are unsure about accuracy of your translation

Or how to make translation more natural

[lucid junco]

Content like what?

[lucid junco]

I dont think cooler has anything spawn in it

[lucid junco]

So unless Im wrong about that, the stub should be removed

[languid kayak]

if it is like that, go on

[karmic plank]

That's not true, I remember I once found fishermen alongside a lake with a pickup and a cooler, the cooler was full of fish

[languid kayak]

might be part of survivor story then

[lucid junco]

That not true for natural spawns inside of other containers

Ive checked location distribution for all fishes and none of them have cooler

[languid kayak]

btw, that's from some blog post screenshot? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Radio&curid=227&diff=511581&oldid=492377

"Upper South Radio"

oh nvm, I see https://projectzomboid.com/blog/news/2022/09/broadened-horizonz/

[languid kayak]

@robust latch except a typo and title case, you think the change is fine? Seems Roudrick chnaged all the headers from "events of Project Zomboid" to "narrative timeline" for NPCs

[languid kayak]

@tender frost just to let you know, since you contribute to the page mostly, I think I'll go ahead and move https://pzwiki.net/wiki/List_of_Tiledefs_in_use_by_mods to simply "Tiledefs used by mods", since it's shorter and how we generally name articles (Items, Weapons, Furniture etc.), I mentioned it before briefly but you probably missed it :). I'll keep the redirect though, so the old links will still work!

Also, thanks for your contribution to it all the time 😄

[robust latch]

Yeah its a good change.

[tender frost]

so basically a different url?

[tender frost]

thnx for letting me know ill notify the mappers

[languid kayak]

name will be shorter, but the old URL will redirect 😄

Hopefully easier to find, too

[tender frost]

ah ok then

[languid kayak]

@robust latch do you think the " is an uninteractable NPC in Project Zomboid" is needed for all the NPCs? Thinking it through, I'd remove the bit, brings nothing of value, as we don't have interactable NPCs yet, unless you count zombies and their zombified versions or old Survivor NPCs/Kate/Raider/Market guy.

c.f. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dean – I changed it for Frank for example https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Frank_Hemingway&type=revision&diff=546393&oldid=546379

I also think maybe the "https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Frank_Hemingway#Narrative_timeline" could be shortened further to just "Timeline"?

[robust latch]

Removing uninteractable part is good because it might raise the question for newer players : Is there interactable NPCs in the game?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I'll go ahead and do that

[proud cobalt]

Zombies are definitely NPCs, just not the way people in pz think of them

In saying that, I agree with the removal

[languid kayak]

We had discussion of using the "AI" to avoid confusion with the survivor NPCs (as that's what is refered to mostly), but yeah. Things might change a little with b42 and then b43 forward since animals will make a way to survivors eventually.

[robust latch]

"Only" 150 recorded media left to edit

[languid kayak]

btw @quasi thunder you sure the description for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Item_tags/uk is the right one? It's much longer than the Engluish one https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Item_tags

I think it's the description of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item_tag ?

so should be https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item_tag/uk

[quasi thunder]

Huh? But I didn't touch this article

[quasi thunder]

Yes, but I have nothing to do with it

[languid kayak]

oh, sorry then 😄

but yeah, seems it should be moved

[quasi thunder]

I don't see any difference

Can I translate the names of category pages?

[robust latch]

Yes

{{Title|Translation}} on top

[quasi thunder]

I ask, can I translate the titles of the articles "category", "info-/navbox", or is it better to leave them in English?

[robust latch]

Its better to translate them to Ukranian than leaving it English

[quasi thunder]

Okay, got it👌

[karmic plank]

oh okay, so that means that coolers that spawn inside a container will never have anything, right?

cuz ones that spawn on the ground can definitely have stuff

[lucid junco]

By natural I mean inside of containers

Those that spawn on ground are placed as a part of the survivor story

[karmic plank]

that makes sense

[lucid junco]

@proud cobalt I had thought of something, what if we make a section for each car on possible loot that can spawn within it?

Since items already list that they can spawn inside of a vehicle, how hard would it be to compile them all and put inside of car pages?

[languid kayak]

Actually the actual "Category:" part itself should be left out, and only translate the actual category name that comes after. There's currently no way for them to be translated with what we have (if we ever get translate extension it'll change), but the actual namespace titles are translated on MediaWiki.

For templates, you translate the "Infobox" as usual though, just left the "Template:" part.

[quasi thunder]

Title|Category:Translate or Title|(without Category)Translate ?

[languid kayak]

the latter

So Category:Test would be → {{Title|Test}}

and Template:Infobox item → {{Title|Infobox item}}

[quasi thunder]

I'm going to sleep. Good night.

[languid kayak]

we still have both being references, but I think it's like that in the patch notes? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&fulltext=1&search=Movables vs https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search=Moveables&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=all&fulltext=1

[languid kayak]

Can someone verify this btw? from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Trait

Note: that there is a bug in the current version of build 41, and this bonus is shown for both Strength and Fitness but is NOT applied as of version 41.50.[verify]
41.50 was quite some time ago, would also free one article from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_verification (some could be low hanging fruits too)

[flat sun]

it's not a bug anymore, it's weird that it's displayed no matter what but one of the later patches added a sandbox option for whether to apply it

[drifting seal]

Gonna look into the tile definitions format.

[languid kayak]

I renamed and repurposed the page as the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Undeniable.info

I also mentioned the mygames.gg character creation there.

The only tool that's left out is PZ Unpacker, here's the bit that got removed:

[https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/3511-pz-unpacker/ PZ Unpacker]
A very useful and easy to use community made tool for extracting PACK files. PACK files are used for a large amount of Project Zomboid's textures, specifically items and tiles. These files are found in <code>ProjectZomboid\media\texturepacks</code>
[[File:PZ_Unpacker.png|thumb|PZ Unpacker]]

Do we want to host it in a separate page or nuke it altogether knowing that TileZed is able to extract tiles just fine now from the .pack files? Pinging @digital helm for that.

[proud cobalt]

I've considered this but wont be making any changes to distribution tables until B42

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i asked what we prefer in article American English or game code

[proud cobalt]

Awesome

[languid kayak]

good point, though I think mov(e)able term only exist in code mostly, so could be exception indeed

[proud cobalt]

Been spending a lot of time on the satisfactory wiki lately. Makes me jealous when I see they have <150 items to maintain compared to our ~2000

[robust latch]

And 1000 of them are literally just clothes and stuff

[digital helm]

and the other 1000 are CDs and VHSs 😄

[languid kayak]

Not counting the 1000 movable tiles!

[languid kayak]

@robust latch fine to remove it now? It's not used and it doesn't seem to be an actual outfit, yet alone the Honeybears' one: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:KY_Baseball.png

[robust latch]

Yeah all of those can be deleted blue green included

[quasi thunder]

What is it? What to do about it? Translate with a comma at the end or is there something wrong?

Something tells me the code is a bit off...

I think the red should be in place of the blue

[flat sun]

only the blue part is actual script syntax

[quasi thunder]

Yeap, but what to do with this?

[lucid junco]

@naive imp
(Or anyone esle, but you are in charge of locations)
Should I mark every location that is currently under old location template as a Stub(or some other)?

[naive rock]

absolutely love the new icons, nice work guys

[languid kayak]

credits goes to @digital helm 😄 The next ones would be Clothing

next in line that is

[languid kayak]

It's a code; you just leave it as is, but other than that modding pages are due for attention

[weary jetty]

Could we get an extra column "Focus Category" in the Foraging table template? I'm not too familiar with how to edit wikis, but I'd like to start contributing the info I dive into the source code for.

[drifting seal]

.pack files, right?

[proud cobalt]

.tiles

[drifting seal]

Oh.

I just isolated the code for .pack files. That's cool.

Just read and extracted all that data lol

I know how that works now.

[proud cobalt]

That is cool, but TileZed can extract the images for that already 😄

[drifting seal]

Yeahhhh buttt

We can all have fun here.

[proud cobalt]

[drifting seal]

TexturePack(Tiles2x): Pages(152) SubTextures(16249)

:D

@proud cobalt https://gist.github.com/JabDoesThings/20e092b75b4df7c60c771dd3890df413

Isolated and cleaned up the code from PZ that does all that.

All of that happens across several classes / Java files.

So this being all in one is helpful, especially for research purposes.

I'll look at the .tiles format tomorrow. <3

[quasi thunder]

Where can I find this template to translate?

[languid kayak]

template:main IIRC, if you edit the code, you can see the template between {{ }}

[quasi thunder]

Yeap, thanks

[flint vapor]

that looks clean

[quasi thunder]

How to put everything in one line?

[languid kayak]

It's the width limit, nothing you can really do about it

[quasi thunder]

😭

[quasi thunder]

Okay, then how to drop half down? <br>?

Well, not bad...

[languid kayak]

you can use   too

[drifting seal]

@proud cobalt So the tile-definitions format is using little-endian BTW.

[drifting seal]

I can see where people stopped trying to understand & interpret this format.

I'm doing fine though.

[proud cobalt]

That's good to hear at least

[drifting seal]

So a little nuance here:

Fernflower has issues with certain logical condition pathways, especially when nested. This is optimized in the compiler as label-break statements which makes it hellish to read.

Vineflower is a fork of Fernflower, optimizing a lot including this situation. I can give you the Vineflower decompilation of the code from PZ if you want it. I'm writing my own atm.

Another note: This file's format uses Little-Endian. Java uses Big-Endian so it complicates the code when reading from LE binary files.

[proud cobalt]

This doesnt surprise me, TileZed cant export these currently. We cant even get the images of some of the vegetation exported in the current version

Oh fernFlower is a java decompiler lmao

Happy to wait for whatever output you come up with

[drifting seal]

Alright. I specialize in this line of work.

(I wrote the first blender import / export scripts for PZ)

=)

[drifting seal]

@proud cobalt Do you need just the raw properties or do you need the internally adapted / interpreted properties for each sprite / tile?

Most of the code for the game involves transforming values based on certain conditions.

In other words, the properties of each tile in the file does not accurately reflect what the game actually has for them.

[proud cobalt]

The values in the game would be best, though both would also be helpful to compare

If i had to pick one id pick in game values

[drifting seal]

Alright. I'll need to take time to apply those however I can already provide you code that reads through the entire file with listed property-subproperties.

[drifting seal]

@proud cobalt

Here's the raw contents of each file.

It's all in a JSON-digestable format.

I don't have type in there. this is the raw contents of the file.

type is a transformation techincally involving IsoObjectType interpretation.

Anywho, I'm heading out for a bit.

@proud cobalt Here's the base code so far:

The entire file schema / format is detailed in the code. =) A page could be written for it now.

[quartz bear]

So why not use Procyon

Or CFR

[proud cobalt]

This is already a game changer. I can't thank you enough for this. I'll actually be able to make such good use of this now and in B42. This may even make the tile pages automatically translatable too. If type is too much of a pain just let me know, this is already great

I have to ping @languid kayak and @digital helm here too. You may want this file for any possible reason anyway.

[drifting seal]

I'm probably ancient in this realm. I've used JD and FernFlower for almost 15 years.

[quartz bear]

I use CFR and Procyon for everything because FF is slow (and, off-topic, not obfuscation-resilient at all) and JD is... dead for good

[drifting seal]

Yeah I only recently found out about JD's demise. It's expected tbh..

FF was revolutionary back in the Minecraft 0.30 classic days.

It was also maintained & worked on by some of the guys who maintained MCP then. It's now ran by Jetbrains.

[quartz bear]

MCP still uses FernFlower

not sure about MCP Reborn

[drifting seal]

It's been so long that I couldn't even speak for any Minecraft project now. xD

I modded the web client back when there were only ~ 2000 paid members in the entire game.

But yeah it's good to see that the Java decompiler / reflection ecosystem has grown since.

[quartz bear]

obfuscation is still ahead

invokedynamic = all decompilers happily die

[drifting seal]

Minecraft's obfuscation makes PZ's Java look like a walk in the park.

[quartz bear]

Minecraft's obfuscation is just name remapping

[drifting seal]

Yup.

It's still hell without that.

[quartz bear]

we have enough pz builds stockpiled over the years to never have to worry about that

[drifting seal]

Also class-names in the Jar files without renaming them hit reserved filenames in Windows' OS.

[quartz bear]

stable naming

[quartz bear]

not a big deal

[drifting seal]

Yeah. I also have class files from like build 30.

Hahaha

[quartz bear]

👻

i doubt indie stone are ever gonna be obfuscating their builds

[drifting seal]

It'd hurt their Lua support.

[quartz bear]

not really

[drifting seal]

Any publicly-exposed names will change.

As long as that's not changed then sure that'd work.

It would also make a very grumpy Jab.

[quartz bear]

as i said, stable naming

just match old builds with new ones

il2cpp reverse engineers been doing that for a while

[drifting seal]

Sure however I'm sort of doing this in my own way with other projects. Obfuscation would break like 3+ years of projects I have active right now.

[quartz bear]

ehhh

i can see an explicitly stated name parameter

[drifting seal]

If you expose Java recursively and access class objects with public members, then if those change those will break.

[quartz bear]

if

[drifting seal]

It'd ask for TIS to change the codebase and that includes all Lua code that communicates with instanced Java objects and static methods.

Not just the global table.

[quartz bear]

...sure

very true and based

[drifting seal]

If we're discussing options that could be beneficial I'd argue that distancing from Kahlua and moving to something like LuaJ in the future would be good for the game and performance.

=)

[quartz bear]

luajit

[drifting seal]

I also need to write a WIKI page and some documentation for a patch-mod that allows for mods to use Python 2.

[flint vapor]

It would literally obliterate any mod support overall

It's not even the main problem, let's say they keep the same names for methods it's okay

But literally modding relies a fuck ton on looking through the java to understand what's going on

And even with that, there's a bunch of limitations still

[drifting seal]

@proud cobalt I'll see what I can do to apply the transformations to the properties and flags for tiles that the game does, when I get time.

It would be nice to have time to work on this game again.

=/

[round flume]

Epic suggestion yall should add
items that cannot be microwaved

[lucid junco]

Metal things

Dont microwave them

[round flume]

🤯 no way

[languid kayak]

It's the HasMetal tag, though may not be enough in the face indeed 🤔 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Item_tag#HasMetal

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/HasMetal_(tag)

[round flume]

Thank you!.

[languid kayak]

No worries 🙂 I updated the page while at it. The tag pages were auto-generated and will need manual updates, see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles_(tags)

They aren't linked that much to, as well.

[proud cobalt]

They're quite new to be fair

[proud cobalt]

When i run this on my files i get a different output. Example:
Your zip folder "camping_01_19": { "properties": { "BlocksPlacement": "", "CustomName": "Composter", "IsLow": "", "IsMoveAble": "", "IsoType": "IsoCompost", "PickUpTool": "Hammer", "PickUpWeight": "50", "PlaceTool": "Hammer", "SpeedFactor": "30", "solidtrans": "" }, "name": "camping_01_19", "id": 115019, "isAttachedFloor": false, "isBush": false },
My output "camping_01_19": { "properties": { "BlocksPlacement": "", "IsLow": "", "SpeedFactor": "30", "solidtrans": "" }, "name": "camping_01_19", "id": 115019, "isAttachedFloor": false, "isBush": false },

[drifting seal]

I'll need to take a look when I get home

Driving

It was because of some of the additional stuff the game does was translated to the code.

I didn't give you that.

[proud cobalt]

Ahh ok i had a feeling of that

[quartz bear]

Minecraft is obfuscated yet mods still exist. How?

Mappings.

[flat sun]

obfuscation isn't possible for 80% of pz's code

anything exposed to lua (which is the majority of the codebase) is always going to be known

the name parameter you point out is only used for the explicit lua api defined in one single class, it's much less than 1% of what's exposed, nothing else uses or supports that annotation and we'd just be able to work backwards from it anyway

[quartz bear]

Never argued about that

My point is that even if pz was obfuscated it wouldn't be a big deal by any means

[flat sun]

yeah pretty much

[flint vapor]

But obfuscation basically makes a code unreadable no ?

[quartz bear]

There are many different kinds of obfuscation

You're probably thinking of CFO (control flow obfuscation)

[flint vapor]

No idea

[quartz bear]

As a basic example

Basically the obfuscation we're talking about is name obfuscation

Names of classes, methods, fields

Not CFO, decompiler breaking or that sort of stuff

[flint vapor]

Why tf would anyone obfuscate their code this way ?

(Name obfuscation)

[quartz bear]

At standalone, it doesn't affect the performance and it reduces the filesize

[flint vapor]

I mean, would make it unreadable for themselves

[quartz bear]

Obfuscators are a post-build step

The source code is never obfuscated

The binaries the compiler produces based on the source code are

[flint vapor]

Also on the Minecraft's aspect, wasn't the fact their classes and mrthods with weird names bcs the devs back then just didn't use proper naming ?

[quartz bear]

No?

No one in a sane project would ever want to name their classes a, aa, aaa, b, etc.

[quartz bear]

^

[digital helm]

This is great! Really appreciate your work on this @drifting seal

[proud cobalt]

I've already started working on generating pages with it, with a focus on being translatable much like item articles. I hand made an example page of how it could look.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox2

[digital helm]

That's awesome! Code sectrion looks much nicer too 😄

[proud cobalt]

Easy to make it look nice when the input is nice to begin with 😄

[digital helm]

Indeed. Being something like json to start with is much better than the 'zedscript' txt files 😆

[proud cobalt]

Also possible to expand this to other tiles, currently I'm only focusing on named tiles. Because there's about 25k tiles individual, but less than 1000 actually have names. And it's configured in such a way that multiple tiles with the same name are nested into that name, and sorted based on their facing direction. So we can automate all the angles showing

It's actually been so good to work with

[languid kayak]

yeah, exactly the reason why 😄

[languid kayak]

Also we treat several tiles as one, it's possible to figure for movables, but not easy indicator for non-movables.

or maybe there is? idk 😄

[proud cobalt]

Not so easy, the electricity pilon has like 250 tiles and no simple way to align them or know they're meant to be together

[proud cobalt]

Figured out the issue i was having with Ukranian. Cp1251 doesnt actually support the translation file properly but UTF-8 worked

[proud cobalt]

Ukrainian going up

[quasi thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-happy-gif-15129684

[lucid junco]

@proud cobalt Since we have separate pages for various store types, can we put the general loot info into those pages?

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/The_Grand_Ohio_Mall#First_floor
Fixed now

[drifting seal]

The sub-properties stuff will change the JSON structure of each entry however it'll be more accurate once I get there with the game's internal changes to the properties when loaded in.

Honestly, why not just apply the changes statically to the files so the game doesn't internally modify them and make them more confusing?

(Scratches head)

I think / hope that 42 will be a change in the codebase for this area, hopefully a good one to help with loading performance and removing things like this.

That area of the code looks like short-term, quick fixes around the time that big trees & new tiles were implemented.

[proud cobalt]

Which pages?

[lucid junco]

Laundry mart, convenience store, grocery store for example

[languid kayak]

Looks neat, minor nit Source: ProjectZomboid\media\\newtiledefinitions.tiles – double \.

Also, not sure of something we ever want to address, but non-Windows OS-es (macOS, Linux, any Unix, Android would use a / instead)

could use → but it could be confusing

[proud cobalt]

Yeah already fixed in the actual script

[proud cobalt]

We already have this. But could link to it more often?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns

[languid kayak]

@digital helm do we need this template? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Rand I think it was pretty much only used for randomizing screenshots on the main page

[sonic pond]

In https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Legend_melee_weapon in template code there is no line for translating Repairable field

[languid kayak]

pinging @digital helm for this as well, if not I'll take a look later

btw, are we going to split https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pop and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Chips ? These will have to be split post b42 anyway (different flavors), so I'd say yes?

[digital helm]

Added it now. It was added after the others, so I missed it. Thanks

[digital helm]

Sure. I think you and @proud cobalt said yes? I don't mind either way

[sonic pond]

Thank you, there is also same problem with https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Legend_firearm

[languid kayak]

btw @proud cobalt do we have a list of pages not replaced by a script? Page like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Salmon/fr could use rework (which I put mbox for right now)

[digital helm]

Just added that one too. Thank you

[proud cobalt]

Yep just hasn't been gotten to yet. Working on other stuff after splitting recipe ingredients. Which surprisingly havnt had anyone in here to complain about yet

[proud cobalt]

No I've just been doing it manually as I find them. If people tag them with rework and/or let me know that would help

[languid kayak]

I sometimes wonder, after b42 hits and people return to game, we'll be overwhelemed with hurr durr where is the_insert random article_ from back then 😄

(though we probably won't)

btw, when you'll have your bot free, there are some image in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Pages_requested_for_deletion that I added to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tasks#One-time_bot_tasks if you'd want to replace them, mostly the UI images that were replaced

[proud cobalt]

Hopefully people will go "Oh this is actually relevant now" instead

[proud cobalt]

I'll look at this, I still havnt fixed this script so it's risky lol

[languid kayak]

ah, makes sense then 😛

[proud cobalt]

Though these look specific enough it shouldn't be an issue. As opposed to replacing something like Axe

Thai Is almost ready to go up too. Just waiting for one more trabslation fix

The bots been free for a bit while I play satisfactory 😄

[languid kayak]

I'm alone are having an itch to play C:DDA again

[proud cobalt]

Play satisfactory 😉 I told Vail the same and he said if he started he'd never stop 😆

He's right though, I made a trello to plan my factory work and I'm drawing factory plans at work. it never stops

[lucid junco]

And fandom wiki images

And that one entrance image Ive added yesterday

[digital helm]

Oh boy. I didn't realise it was that serious 😆 setting up a trello board is next level

[proud cobalt]

It has check-lists and everything. Each factory has links to factory planners like this

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_ModularFrame_C"%3A"75"%2C"Desc_ModularFrameHeavy_C"%3A"10"%2C"Desc_ModularFrameFused_C"%3A"5"%2C"altRecipes"%3A["Recipe_Alternate_PureCateriumIngot_C"%2C"Recipe_Alternate_Screw_C"]}

[digital helm]

Oh no... It's KSP all over again

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I replaced the fandom one with the ones I took myself, though I have to redo them so the text is visible still

Maybe I'll do that later today or tomorrow after summary

[lucid junco]

I think if we arent putting them in the individual businesses section now, we can put them into the general business category page

But thats something that has to be decided with @naive imp

[naive imp]

Going through some recent threads I have some quick thoughts

The loot should into the basic store pages along with the individual pages. The reason for this is people using search engines will arrive on either page depending in how specific they search, and I think that the information should be as accessible as possible.

Also if you look at Boilerplate location it details loot and interior details, we've done that for every business up to now, no reason to change it

The generic pages were meant to be a list of chains and other info such as the gas station page

[proud cobalt]

I havnt looked too deep into it, but the loot is by room definition and each business won't have the same right? Like not every gigamart will have gigamart kitchen right?

[naive imp]

That's why its not overly specific and more of an overview

A general synopsis

If we want to do in depth in depth I think that should come later

[lucid junco]

Im mainly asking this because some business like general stores have really big variety of things you can find that is hard do reflect just in text

[naive imp]

Thats why we keep it super vague in the loot section

There's other general stores that have been done, you can use those as a reference if you'd like

My thought process is we're gonna go back over em all in the b42 update anyway so just wait to be super in depth until then

Imo it's extra workload for no reason until the update drops

But I'm happy to hear others opinions 😀

I'm not like someone lol

[lucid junco]

Department stores give me a bit of a headache the same reason

[naive imp]

There's only one department store as far as I know and that's in a mall in an uncreated article

[lucid junco]

Two actually

[proud cobalt]

I'm also not changing the distribution table script until after B42 as it likely needs a full rewrite. And focussing on language pages, and now tile pages possibly being able to be translated that's what I'm enjoying doing currently

[naive imp]

I have plans for all the Unnamed businesses but for now they stay with no page

That was decided a while ago lol

[naive imp]

Oh where's the other one

Amd is it named?

Bc if not we don't really need a page for it atm

[proud cobalt]

If you say his name 3 times in a mirror he will appear

[naive imp]

[lucid junco]

I forgot its name

[naive imp]

But it is named?

[lucid junco]

Its in the stub category

Yes

[naive imp]

Ah

[naive imp]

Well feel free to do your best my fellow soldier and I'll go over it once I have a stable job again

o7

[lucid junco]

Got it

[lucid junco]

Oh, one more thing, what will we do with old businesses pages?

Should we make a task to rewamp them to current boilerplate?

[naive imp]

Most of them are current enough

They're a bit different but overall they're similar enough I think they're ok

They're a bit different but overall they're similar enough I think they're ok

But if you wanna do some cleanups and details go off

[lucid junco]

Aight, thank you for replying

And good luck

[naive imp]

I'm working on kt

Mechanic career here we come

[proud cobalt]

Best of luck!

[naive imp]

Yall are awesome lol

[proud cobalt]

I useless with engines and shit, but pop off King 😆

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sammie's

[languid kayak]

not sure you missed it @digital helm but I think the template's good to go?

[lucid junco]

Having two giant department stores less than a crossroad away sounds really american

[languid kayak]

It kinda lost interest after that drama, no one really took it over and Vail just cleaned it up a little, I slapped {{rework}} on it. Not sure how many people use it, let me look the stats

[digital helm]

I did miss it. I think it could be useful (somewhere?). The way it works isn't exactly straightforward, so if we needed it, I don't think i could come up with that logic on my own. So I wouldn't want to delete it

[languid kayak]

Going back to the roots? 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Vehicles_and_Mechanics

[lucid junco]

Thats interesting

[languid kayak]

was supposed to be reply to this

Going back to the roots? 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Vehicles_and_Mechanics

[lucid junco]

Finnegan Research Group has a separate room with spiffos kitchen roomdef

[languid kayak]

I sometimes wonder how though-of was it and how much of it is simplification, but I can imagine someone adding some Spiffo unique stuff later down the line (if they are not already), causing confusion.

Kinda reminds me the situation we have with unknown gas stations lol

[lucid junco]

Dont remind me that

[proud cobalt]

I think this one is on purpose, part of the spiffos conspiracy theory

[lucid junco]

Yeah

I also think that

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-clap-ez-gif-18600209

Why is this in the trivia

[naive imp]

Maybe

[lucid junco]

Ughhh

How do I translate it into normal coords?

[languid kayak]

not sure but maybe https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Starting_location helps?

[lucid junco]

Oh

[languid kayak]

that one is kinda pointless, though I do wonder about mentioning ||Finnegan Research Group posh beanie|| from #translations message

[lucid junco]

Ive got 4 plushies while checking out the department store

Wish my luck was that good in actuall game

[languid kayak]

oh and btw, all https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Item_icons should be categorized and cleaned, hopefully I didn't miss anything, the 2,103 icons contain some old icons replaced in the game and some recolors too btw – I don't have any ambitious plans to further categorize them in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Item_images (just fixing some mistakes when I see them)

Next will be tiles images 😩

[digital helm]

It's in the meat! https://pzwiki.net/wiki/WBLN_News#timestamp_7200

[lucid junco]

I knew it!

[digital helm]

world is just the cell. So Cell 21x17. Then pos is the Rel values in the map (I think it stands for 'relative' coordinates for the cell)

[lucid junco]

Huh

The car alarm weird

It manually switches on and off the lights

Also the county offices logo is broken

Its for some reason below the door texture, so part of it is hidden unless you destroy it

[proud cobalt]

After some amazing help from our Thai translator, Thai articles are now going up 😄

No spaces between words and no full stops. It feels so wrong

[languid kayak]

😄

[quasi thunder]

What are you talking about?

[proud cobalt]

Thai doesnt use spaces or full stops in sentences
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox2/th

[quasi thunder]

[lucid junco]

Where are the dots

Where are the ,

[proud cobalt]

Nothing at all

Even links just go straight in the middle

[quasi thunder]

Without a period, one can live, but the comma determines how the words will be understood

I thought that German is a difficult language, but... Thai...

[lucid junco]

Something on par with Georgian language

[languid kayak]

Chinese use different full stop character but no spaces tooz but we had one contributor pointing to a style guide to put spaces in between English words.

I'll look for a link when I'll be back home

[languid kayak]

Found it @proud cobalt https://github.com/sparanoid/chinese-copywriting-guidelines

https://github.com/sparanoid/chinese-copywriting-guidelines/blob/master/README.en.md

Last time Vibrance was mostly doing the translation, he mention he don't mind either way, someone else suggested it

[languid kayak]

Original talk from back then (December 2023): #pzwiki_editing message

Vibrance's reply below (in Chinese): #pzwiki_editing message

[languid kayak]

I think you used the same title "Documentation" for all these templates by accident?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Autogenerated/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:AutoT/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Durability_weapon/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Consumables/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Location_table/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:CodeBox/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:CodeSnip/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Retrieved/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Durability_weapon/uk
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Location_table/uk

Should the {{Title}} be removed manually from these?

[quasi thunder]

Cool

https://tenor.com/view/larry-clash-royale-twerk-twerking-cl-gif-25874642

Huh?

How can a title be translated without {{title}}?

[languid kayak]

Hm, seems it's being transcuded from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Documentation/uk, let me fix it

fixed now, the noinclude was including the title to each of those pages 😄

[quasi thunder]

Ahahahah, I knew I had made a mistake somewhere😆

[quasi thunder]

Where can I find it?

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Page_ns

@serene sage (or anyone), is this correct? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Basic_Car_Crash_Corpse&curid=50511&diff=548013&oldid=424345

and https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Basic_Car_Crash_Corpse&curid=50511&diff=548015&oldid=548013

[serene sage]

the dead body getting up as a crawler is true, but I've never seen the other one ever happen

[serene sage]

well that was a lot of pings just now

[languid kayak]

yeah, mods have settled it, but it was someone discovering the role being pingable lol

[serene sage]

discord permissions are pretty intricate

like roles

channels

pretty easy to leave something open

[languid kayak]

I reverted this https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Sir_Twiggy&type=revision&diff=555389&oldid=555385 – not sure if it was speculation? Pinging @robust latch for thoughts but as always, anyone is free to comment.

Actual change was here: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Sir_Twiggy&curid=40747&diff=548049&oldid=546429

[languid kayak]

Well, I added verify to it for now: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Basic_Car_Crash_Corpse&type=revision&diff=555391&oldid=548015

Added verify to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bandits_on_Road#Trivia but it seems plausible judging by the name?

[robust latch]

I don't know much about this

If you are ok I am ok 👍

[languid kayak]

not sure we need this trivia? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=The_President&curid=38899&diff=551085&oldid=546449

[digital helm]

I don't think that's necessary. I think we should assume that it's a fictional character

I don't think real world people have been used in any other case, so I doubt they would here

It's similar to GTA in that every brand and character has similarities, but is unique

[proud cobalt]

Ahh that explains it

[proud cobalt]

[digital helm]

No idea what this could be referencing 😏

[tulip kiln]

Only ones I've seen actually referenced in PZ are ones like Abe Lincoln, Aristotle etc

[digital helm]

They make sense. Historical figures, rather than current

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Romuald_Dron_Memorial_Park
I feel like Overview is a bit bloated

[digital helm]

I agree. At the very least, it could do with being split into paragraphs

[languid kayak]

Can't ping you guys this time, as the @Wiki Editor role is temporarily not pingable due to an issue, but the September 2024 summary is up! https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:News#September_2024_summary

[proud cobalt]

Unfortunate we lose something due to trills

[languid kayak]

Yeah, though maybe we'll get it back if the permissions would be changed 🤞

[languid kayak]

Calvy not sure you'll have any intermediate success with setting up Dutch (NL), we used to have a few translators over time, one being active not so long age, but so far there seems to be just one page in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedTemplates wanting https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_items/nl which is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Nails/nl – should I remove the navbox item from the page for now?

There are some issue with /nl being added in wrong place, maybe it's for other languages too?

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt seems to be a bot job, the pages from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles/pl should be moved to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles_(B41)/pl

Finding pages with empty line at the top seems like an easy bot job too: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category%3AJunk&type=revision&diff=558129&oldid=277721

Was the case for images, but it seems it's the same for categories

so far mentioning them only here, but will add to Tasks later unless you already will have them done 😄

[languid kayak]

Minor nit, I think we weren't consistent, but I think we should use T-shirt in the middle of sentence instead of t-shirt as it's most common? (both are correct from what I researched, but the uppercase "T" is more common?) https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:T-shirts (individual pages)

[languid kayak]

🎉 btw

a quarter of CalvyBot btw 😛

(and we have the same join date and month :D)

btw, I changed a lot of descriptions so they can be somewhat unified before adding all the missing ones to translate from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedCategories (that way the subcategories will work and the other language ones will be findable from the languages submenu), mostly for items, in case you'd want to update yours @robust latch

You can take a look at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Faalagorn but it was some edits done, though, so I don't expect you to update all of them at once, just letting you know the English descriptions changed to be more-or-less unified to This category contains all '''category name''' subcategory.

[languid kayak]

I fixed it by creating the template; it seems all the other languages were created it's just Dutch was omitted for some point (we don't have Afrikaans too, but it's not used anywhere)

[robust latch]

I wont be going over the TR categories, thanks for letting me know though

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Incorrect_template_usage
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Pages_with_template_loops

Two places worth taking a look at btw, some pages there, pinging @proud cobalt and @digital helm else I'll take a look later (or anyone else who wants to fix)

[languid kayak]

One issue I see with the autogenerated articles @proud cobalt , comparing https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Military_Helmet/ru to e.g., https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Military_Helmet/it it seems the Italian one (and any language other than Polish and Russian) seems to have different headers hence different categories… I think it's not intended?

Russian: {{Header|Project Zomboid|Items|Clothing|Headwear|Helmets}}
Italian: {{Header|Project Zomboid|Items}} (missing subcategories altogether

Turkish is fine too

but Spanish, Italian, Brazilian Portuguese, Thai and Ukrainian only are categorized as "Category:Items" 🤔

[languid kayak]

btw, currently https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list is using {{Autogenerated|reason=Any changes to this page will be overwritten automatically.|source=[https://github.com/Vaileasys/pz-wiki_parser pz-wiki_parser (GitHub)]}} which make it fall into hidden https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles

This is a category for articles created automatically that require human verification.
which clearly is not.

Meanwhile, the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tile_list uses {{Note|content=The contents of this page are <b>auto-generated</b>. Any edits made to this page will be overridden automatically.}} and hence is not categorized as autogenerated.

Now, the question is – do we want to repurpose https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles so it's not having the__EXPECTUNUSEDCATEGORY____HIDDENCAT__ and just lists the pages that are auto-generated such as Item list, Tile list or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns (this one just lists '''Warning: Everything below has been programmatically generated - any changes made will be lost on the next update!''' and If you would like to modify how this information is presented, submit a merge request or create an issue [https://github.com/BrianOstrander/pz-room-define-items-to-wiki here.] – I think that's the preferred way? Pinging @proud cobalt and @digital helm for thoughts

[quasi thunder]

By the way, I still need an answer🙂

[languid kayak]

here's the answer 😄

[languid kayak]

I added the autogenerated item page counter to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations @proud cobalt so we can track easier which languages have the autogenerated item pages added and how many are left. The numbers also shed some light in how many pages existed before. Except for Polish which is skewed until pages from https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Autogenerated_articles/pl will get moved to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles_(B41)/pl

[languid kayak]

I updated the whole https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations a little too. The https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations#Translation_progress got merged back into the page, but will need further cleanups/revamps, especially if the tf2 wiki's translation progress https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_Wiki:Translation_progress (which is still very basics) was scrapped (not sure if Vibrance got any further plans for that, and the translation extension is not something that we should rely on coming, if we ever decide we need it, as things are way better organized than they used to be nowadays).

I also think that having finishing splitting pages would benefit the autogenerated pages, right? Else we'd have to split/regenerate the non-English pages as well, right? I always find sometyhing else to do, but maybe I could bring myself to do some splitting of the few remaining pages we have, as that's not a terrible lot anymore 🙂

[sonic pond]

How I can translate this ?

[languid kayak]

I think it's part of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Recipe ? Though I'm not sure it's ready to be translated? @digital helm @proud cobalt?

[robust latch]

Most certainly yes. I can also maybe look into splitting pages but thats something I have never done

I created some of the missing TR item pages that aren't an evolved recipe

Also are we adamant that we have all the splitting needed pages tagged with split mbox?

Finally, do we keep the meta page after we split it?

[languid kayak]

most should, but some may be missed or undecided. I added pop and chips today

Also @proud cobalt for autogenerated item pages, I think the {{Translate}} should not be added – we already have the Category:Autogenerated articles (B41) being added and having the translate makes it hard to find pages that genuinely need translation, c.f. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles_(B41)/tr and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Translation_needed/tr from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance/tr – now good luck finding that 6 not autogenerated articles that were marked for translation!

Especially as technically the page is translated already, and not really machine translated (and if the later, the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:AutoT should be used instead)

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt brought this up previously too #pzwiki_editing message I think having the main autogenerated category could be the one that we expect pages to stay in permanently, then have a new category for each batch, e.g. tile, media, etc.

[languid kayak]

I'll update and reuprpose the existing categeory then

@lucid junco what do you think we should do with this page? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Guide/ru I think we had a brief discussion here somwhere in the past, but now we removed all the outdated guides. I think it has no matching English page and is not linked anywhere. Is there anything valuable to scavenge from there and maybe put to an existing page like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Survival_Guide/ru ?

The last meaningful edit was in 2014 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Guide/ru&action=history

or actually 2013 even

and it seems to be solely done by this user back then: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hlay11

[digital helm]

Hmm... It's a pretty cumbersome template. I'll see if adding translations is straightforward, otherwise it may need to wait until we look at major changes post b42 @sonic pond

[languid kayak]

I have a feeling the (simplified) crafting we'll get in first b42 iwbums may not be that far away from the recipes we have now, though OTOH I know that engineering something right now with the option it may be irrelevant in not so long after is not great 😄

Though worth keeping in mind that whatever is done now for 41.78.16 is the build of the game people will be on for a while, since that's where MP will work.

(plus what makes folks occupied till b42 drops)

[digital helm]

On this, I was playing with the language bar yesterday https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_4
Some styles need to be added to the stylesheet, so it's only for dark mode for now

[languid kayak]

could be mentioned in the project, also all the bits and bobs on the wiki should be updated with the b42 translations not being fan made anymore and GitHub losing relevance past it I guess

Also I have this in the back of the head, too 😄 https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/issues/997

[digital helm]

May need to wait to see how it's implemented. @proud cobalt and I will definitely be looking at using the new game translations. Then most things should be automatically updated with the bot

[languid kayak]

That's done, btw @robust latch marked it as improve, but you will probably want to adjust the deescriptio for Turkish now 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Autogenerated_articles/tr

You'll want to change it in the source btw @digital helm (assuming it's the right repo even, I didn't check 😛 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=PZwiki%3ATile_list&type=revision&diff=559015&oldid=429673 )

and the same should be done for non-English pages @proud cobalt

not pulling as I won't test it now but what I imagine would be roughly needed for the room to definition script: https://github.com/Faalagorn/pz-room-define-items-to-wiki/tree/patch-1

Should result in something like that: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns

Okay, with that in mind I think I'll go to sleep. There's close to 600 pages remaining in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedCategories (more if we change Spanish, Italian, Brazilian Portuguese, Thai and Ukrainian and future autogenerated items to be included), but I think these could be automatically created by taking the description from English category and adding {{Translate}} to it? Hopefully I fixed all the [[Category: to {{ll|Category:, else it'd be categorized as English page (and if it's ll as category, then it's fine).

Just the site mainteneance ones can't be pasted over, they require special treatment, compare https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance with https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance/tr (table is much smaller for non-English, as some categories are only relevant for English, while the translation needed and autogenerated articles are language-exclusive)

[digital helm]

Different repo, but I was planning to merge it anyway.
With the new tile info from jaba we could redo it and make this a bit more useful

[quasi thunder]

Aaaa, cool, thanks

[proud cobalt]

Done

[proud cobalt]

Calvybot cheated he doesnt need sleep 😉

[proud cobalt]

Looks like you beat me to it

[proud cobalt]

Weird, but the headers are only a guess anyway. Theyre really just waiting for editors to do that

[proud cobalt]

I think the category description was just outdated from the original usage. IMO it should be for any autogenerated pages that intend to stay autogenerated, such as item list. They should all be made consistent but neither of us have gotten to it

[proud cobalt]

Interesting that Spanish and Polish have wildly different numbers. I wonder if that comes down to updates to the wiki parser 🤔

But i like this, looks good

[proud cobalt]

Yeah splitting definitely benefits autogenerated page. I'm also considering a few ways to do pages that have multiple ids, such as canned food. The simplest way is to just have a whitelist, but thats very manual. Not at the front of my priorities currently, would like to get some work done on tiles

[proud cobalt]

I can generate a new item id dictionary too if you split some, thats the best way to see what pages have 2+ ids

[proud cobalt]

AutoT is what adds the pages to Category:Translation needed, we would either need to add hidecat or remove that functionality from AutoT as we are using it for a new purpose. Thoughts from @digital helm too?

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-begging-pretty-please-beg-on-your-knees-pray-for-mercy-gif-26344462

+1 waiting for B42 (and lua)

[proud cobalt]

New professional translation on release should actually make rolling out of language pages even faster, as we wont have to wait for each language to be updated by the community. So long as we don't have massive issues with the parser @languid kayak

[proud cobalt]

Omg i made them B42 not B41. Fixing now

[digital helm]

We could just rely on the English pages, then use the item id dictionary. It's manual initially, but it'd need to be anyway to verify content

[digital helm]

I think the template probably should keep adding the category. But we could have a new category specific to it? I can see why we wouldn't want to mix all the autogenerated pages with articles that actually need to be translated

[proud cobalt]

What do you mean rely on english pages? Like just use the first ID?

[digital helm]

It may need some changes if the files get changed, but the core functionality should be fine. UTF-8 encoding would be nice too

[digital helm]

For the item id dictionary you get all the item IDs in the infobox, right? So refer to that when generating/updating pages

[proud cobalt]

Reminds me, Ukranian needs to use UTF-8 in the parser, i cant push because i've made a mess of my translate.py

[quasi thunder]

“Unknown version” - huh? I tried to translate during the lesson, so it seems I made a mistake somewhere, but I don’t understand what it is... or what

[digital helm]

link to the page? or snippet of what you're doing?

Is it the retrieved template? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Retrieved
If a version isn't defined in the template it'll default to "Unknown version". So you'll need to use hidecat so {{Retrieved|hidecat=true}}

[digital helm]

Language bar template is done https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:LangSwitch. Feedback appreciated. Not sure if we should include a border or not. I think without it's a bit more subtle, since we already have enough things at the top of the page.

Here's a working example: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys/sandbox_4

Existing pages will be a normal link. Pages that don't exist will be a subtle colour (dark grey on dark skin), but on hover it will be a normal broken link, so they can be clicked.
The tooltip will display the page's display title along with the language in brackets.

[proud cobalt]

looks really good, do we plan on just adding it into the header template so its on every page. Would give us a kick to make sure the header is on every page too

[digital helm]

Could do that. We'd have to add it separately to templates, if we wanted it there

[proud cobalt]

Better than adding it to 20k pages

[digital helm]

only to remove it in a months time

[proud cobalt]

Hey its been gone for at least 6 months now!

[proud cobalt]

Do you think we should use script characters rather than language codes, korean, japanese, chinese, cyrillic etc

[digital helm]

This was the simplest implementation. It's just language_code and language_code with capital. I guess the problem is getting the characters?

[proud cobalt]

Could we add a display character something like {{LangSwitch/core|zh-hans|中文 (简体)}}

BTW this will be way more helpful with autogenerated pages

[quasi thunder]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:CodeSnip/uk Review is required here…

[quasi thunder]

.

[digital helm]

like this? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:LangSwitch I just got characters from gpt (it really didn't want to do it)

[quasi thunder]

What a heeeeeeeell

After my work, more work is needed 😂

[digital helm]

Fixed it. You were calling the retrieved template rather than linking to it (also fixed an empty space) https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACodeSnip%2Fuk&type=revision&diff=560595&oldid=560587

[quasi thunder]

Aaaaa

[digital helm]

And I'll have to relook at this being translated too, since it shouldn't be used in the category name https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3ARetrieved%2Fuk&type=revision&diff=560593&oldid=548079

[quasi thunder]

This happened because I completely deleted the text and wrote the translation from memory 😂

https://tenor.com/view/larry-clash-royale-twerk-twerking-cl-gif-25874642

[digital helm]

It was right to translate. I just need to fix the english page

[quasi thunder]

I didn’t reference the right thing, but I think you understood what I meant

Photoshopmaster😎

[digital helm]

ah, gotcha

masterpiece

[proud cobalt]

Yeah like that, ill check the characters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639_language_codes

[digital helm]

This is fixed now. Had the category being translated as well as the text

[quasi thunder]

Are there any examples of articles using the "&" template? And is there a way for me to find out where a particular template is used?

[quasi thunder]

Oh, it’s the same in the original

[languid kayak]

I guess it was Vail 😄

[languid kayak]

what do you mean a guess? The headers are 1 to 1 for each language as the links are automatically adjusted and the categorization was decided in the navigation project back then 😛 I fear editors won't adjust the categories, and even if they'd do, that's an extra strep, plus if it worked for PL, TR and RU, why not for other languages?

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Template%3A%26&namespace=&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1

[languid kayak]

yeah, I adjusted that yesterday 😄 Didn't make a PR as I didn't test it, might need some character escaping

[proud cobalt]

Theres a button that's "What links here"

[languid kayak]

I think it's because Polish had existing pages before?

[proud cobalt]

Oh yeah the new way is meant to take it from the english page. I'll. Have to look at that

[languid kayak]

(also the pages being put in the regular autogenerated category)

[languid kayak]

ah, makes sense. We can add hidecat for these or jsut don't use it? After all these are not translated by DeepL/ChatGPT/Google Translate as you explicitly approach transltors after all

[languid kayak]

yup, this exactly 🙂

[languid kayak]

living in a future 😄

[languid kayak]

the truth is, everything should be utf-8 ._.

[proud cobalt]

I think we should just remove it from AutoT

[lucid junco]

Yes I think we should remove it

The style of writing on it is same as any half useful steam guides

The writer mostly gives advises from their own thoughts and deduction on what's what without backing it up with actual facts or game code

The https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Survival_Guide/ru#Оружие is more objective(while still being not the best at what it wants to achieve) and covers most of what Guide does

So no need to merge them, just delete the old one

2013, damn

No wonders its a bit outdated and has misconceptions

[quartz bear]

Hello wiki chat

[lucid junco]

(How am I without highlighting how bad things really are)

Board - good way to die in a fight against 1-2 zombies)

Pistol - witch-doctor's weapon

(or just Shaman's weapon)

[quasi thunder]

AHAHHAHA wtf

[lucid junco]

As I said, written in informal style

damn, I love eating at greasy spoons

[quasi thunder]

Sheesh, I would play with such names

[lucid junco]

Bean wagons and dog wagons are really popular nowadays

[quasi thunder]

It's not surprising

[lucid junco]

Though Im much more into hash houses

Not to be confused with hashery

[quasi thunder]

What it is?

[lucid junco]

But I still love going to watering hole time to time

[drifting seal]

@proud cobalt hey. I'm going to try and finish the script today.

I really enjoy these small projects

[proud cobalt]

Awesome! Thanks again, this will go a long way. Question, are the mappings hard coded? Would these have to be updated in B42 if anything changes? If so how would i do about updating it?

[proud cobalt]

Well if you ever want more, you know where to come 😄

[drifting seal]

Yes and likely.

[drifting seal]

I help modders and yall are the same in a way.

I only work on modding tools right now

[quasi thunder]

In the Ukrainian language, there are two ways to translate "and", and both are important because the rules of the language dictate cases where one variant is used and where the other is. This applies to both literature and documents. There is also a third option, but it is more literary, so it doesn’t matter.

As someone who loves their language dearly, my heart aches when I see only one translation option

[proud cobalt]

Its hard to account for things like this, not just because as a monolingual this is just not something ive ever heard of, but also because it can be different in every language. In this situation it may be best to make a seperate template rather than translate the English one

[quasi thunder]

Yeah, but I think even if such a template is made, it’s unlikely that anyone besides me will use it...

It’s like only two letters, but solving this problem is difficult😂

Overall, I could track articles using the template "&" and correct them if necessary.

[flint vapor]

Hey guys, I see some animals are noted as page not existing while on the trapping animal list it does show them
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Animal
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Trapping#Animals

I can update it I guess, unless there's a reason for it

I'm fixing it

[proud cobalt]

This is intentional in preperation for B42. The animals don't exist so they dont have pages yet. The dead versions do so they have pages
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dead_Bird
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dead_Mouse
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Dead_Rabbit

[flint vapor]

ah ok

[flint vapor]

But each animals show to the dead animal

I kind of guessed it had two options reading through it

[proud cobalt]

On the trapping page yes because theres theres no alive versions yet

[flint vapor]

But the second option to link to the dead version isn't in the animal one

[flint vapor]

Yeah but why not link to the dead animal in the animal page for now ?

Doing this exactly like trapping does

| [[File:Rabbit.png|32px|link=Dead Rabbit|Rabbit]] <br> [[Dead Rabbit|Rabbit]]

instead of just linking Rabbit

[proud cobalt]

Because its being prepared for the update

[flint vapor]

But it would swap to the specific animal page once ready ? Or what's the point of adding the secondary option |Rabbit

It's like this for trapping, it's not for animals

[proud cobalt]

Trapping should probably be changed to have the display as dead XYZ imo

[flint vapor]

It's probably fine tbf

Bcs trapping will most definitely get updated to "use" live animals

[proud cobalt]

Looking at the edit history its most likely that this article has been prepared first and trapping hasnt been looked at yet. Gotta remember theres about 4 of us to 4,000 english articles

[flint vapor]

yea I get it

Just there's the two options, dead and alive in the trapping article

Which is why I was confused looking at both

[proud cobalt]

I believe the concensus for B42 is Animals will be for creatures with AI and the husbandry system and Trapping will be for the current system

[flint vapor]

👌

[quasi thunder]

Why, despite having the same code, does the number of total pages differ? Moreover, it’s not even a link, as it is in the English version.

Gold - articles, purple - pages. So, why?

[robust latch]

Imagine the :uk and :en as if they are /uk

[robust latch]

Not all pages are articles. Context pages (gold) are articles + categories. Pages (purple) encompasses every page in the wiki. User pages, articles, files, categories, talk pages, templates, and so on, if I am not mistaken.

[quasi thunder]

Yeah, I know. But the code is the same, so all pages, including the English one, should display either 42k or 17k. But the English version is so primary that only it responds to the code as it should.

[languid kayak]

What Calvy summarized, I had a plan to go through the animals, as I'm not sure how the living/dead sprites are used, e.g., https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Bird.png vs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:BirdDead.png (all current animals have two variants, including frog)

[languid kayak]

one is {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} the other one is {{NUMBEROFPAGES}}, I had updating non-English main pages in mind, just no ETA

Actually, I have some time spare, let me do it quickly

[quasi thunder]

But, here. Numberofpages and numberofpages.
But I see that you have already fixed it by changing the code. It works strangely, but at least it works.

[flint vapor]

There's a living sprite for birds ?

Is there for every animals ?

Do you know where those are in the game files actually ?

Or where they are used ?

I'm currently working on a hunting mod that uses the foraging and I change the foraging icon to the animal being hunted

[quasi thunder]

No way

[languid kayak]

I actually wanted to research it further, but yeah, there's a sprite for each living animal

[quasi thunder]

Thanks @languid kayak

[flint vapor]

Do you know where they are located ?

[languid kayak]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Frog.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Bird.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Rabbit.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Mouse.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Rat.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Squirrel.png

[flint vapor]

I meant

In the game files

[languid kayak]

the icon?

[flint vapor]

yea

[languid kayak]

UI2 it seems

[flint vapor]

Do you know if the game uses them ?

[languid kayak]

That's the thing to be researched 😄

[quasi thunder]

Why...

In short, good night

[languid kayak]

last live where, on Twitch :D?

[flat sun]

frog is used, you can forage frogs (lol)

i'm fairly sure the others are entirely unused

[flint vapor]

Seems like it

Found them in UI2

Managed to use the bird one

I'll see for the others

Nice

That's so cool, thx for making me discover these icons lol

I didn't even notice them on the wiki

[digital helm]

I could be misunderstanding what your issue is, but they're different numbers because one is uk and the other is en. It gets the number of pages in the en and uk categories. There are a lot more en pages than uk

[quasi thunder]

Yup

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak I have the bot working to update the headers, theres alot of pages to do (approx 9,000). It will make all of the language subpages have the same header as the english page

Eta 25 hours

Is it possible to have this number only show edits with the wikieditor tag? @digital helm @languid kayak

Because Calvybot lifts this number pretty significantly. 1/3rd of all edits ever

[languid kayak]

I'd say no, but otoh I think it could be researched 🤔

[digital helm]

I don't think so either. It'd be changed to the skin on the backend. Any updates to the skin would remove it too

[digital helm]

Looked into it a bit more, and there's no native solution. It's either modify the skin on the backend (PHP) or modify mediawiki by writing a custom extension (PHP). Mediawiki seems to just get the sum of the revision entries for the stat. So pretty much a hard no 😕

[quasi thunder]

Ukrainian accounts for 40%😂

[quasi thunder]

What is the specific meaning of this template?

[digital helm]

The retrieved template? To indicate the version that a code snippet was obtained. It's a part of CodeSnip, so rarely used directly. It also adds it to that version category, which is used to help find what is outdated

[quasi thunder]

Aaaah, thanks for the context. Because there are two completely different translations, and I don’t understand which one fits here.

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm Should I mention that "Blue plate" means "A blue plate meal is a low-priced restaurant meal that usually changes every day"

Had found this while searching for restaraunt synonyms in cambridge dictionary

[lucid junco]

Thats a weird animation

I dont remember seeing it anywhere in the game

[languid kayak]

I'd say uesas I didn't knew it myself at least

[languid kayak]

well, you do now 😄

seems like jumping and falling combined?

[lucid junco]

Yeah, and it happens 100% of the time

Without damaging the player though

All of the Restaurants are now revamped to current boilerplate 🎉

[sweet fern]

Unrelated, but what is the best wiki page

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Sharpgolden

[quasi thunder]

I looked through the entire main page, but it seems that there is no "News" category, "PzWiki News". If it’s not there, why not add? Perhaps it could be included in the side panel.

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm

[lucid junco]

And all of the Cafes too

[languid kayak]

the wiki news are on the community portal, butI had thoughts of bringing them back to the main page, as notmany people look at the community portal nowadays. What do you guys think?

[quasi thunder]

COOL

[lucid junco]

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#13002x1916x2818
@naive imp Does this count as a laundromat?

[quasi thunder]

I completely agree. It makes sense from both a design and functionality perspective.

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak Where can I access the Locations table again?

I want to move some businesses around categories

[sonic pond]

Interesting, I translated the main page

[sonic pond]

So, I translated whole page, and fixed few minor things, and that means that he translated main page, ok

[quasi thunder]

No-no-no. This is just a report for the month. You really created the page, and thank you.

[sonic pond]

Ahh, it for the month, ok. I am currently translating survival guide, so you can add that

[quasi thunder]

Well, good luck

[sonic pond]

thanks

[quasi thunder]

Btw

Where were you before that? Why are your latest updates dated mid/late winter?

[sonic pond]

I was hoping translation extension will be released, but looks like it's even further then B42

[quasi thunder]

And you were waiting??

[sonic pond]

yeah

[quasi thunder]

How are your English skills? Because I finally translated the article, but it turned out to be too difficult for my knowledge of English. It was also hard to understand how to adapt one word and one description for Ukrainian.

[sonic pond]

I think somewhere in between B2 - C1. I have good vocabulary, but my grammar sucks

[sonic pond]

I still don't understand what is proper way to translate perishable food and moodles

[quasi thunder]

🤔

Ahahah, I too

But... maybe?

Maybe you can find a better translation🤷‍♂️

[drifting seal]

https://tenor.com/view/drink-coffee-coffee-yes-jack-gif-12037659

[quasi thunder]

On the wiki moodle is translated as "стан", and overall, it is quite a correct translation. Perishable food... "псувний"? As far as I understand the context, I think it is so.

[quasi thunder]

"Псувна їжа"*

[quasi thunder]

Or "псувний продукт"

[sonic pond]

Maybe I agree with "стан", but "псувний" sounds weird, quite unnatural

[quasi thunder]

Why? For instance: Wine is not a perishable product – "Вино це непсувний/не псувний продукт"

Okay

A little bit yes

But it seems to be the correct option, as everywhere I look, it is translated that way

[sonic pond]

Can you give some links, please ?

[quasi thunder]

We both speak Ukrainian, why do we speak English here🤦‍♂️ DM?

[languid kayak]

you mean https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Businesses or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Building_multi_location or …?

[languid kayak]

I got the survivor guide to a shape some time ago, the English one will need one more sweep probably I think I'll move the cell bit to a different page one day once, just keep that in mind.

We also had some talks with Vail of refering the in-game Survivor Guide a little more, since they share names (that's why the page is called "Survivor Guide" not "guide" (lowercase) 😛

[drifting seal]

Wondering if I should make an entire GitHub repository for file types and reading them for PZ.

I could make it so that each branch is the major build version(s).

It'd give me a reason to unify codebases that I've built over the years for things like ZedScript which lacks any strong libraries for parsing and manipulating.

I'm open to ideas on this. I'd imagine that this would help a lot here.

I also did some UML work on documenting the complexities of ZedScript.

So centralizing that info would be good for an eventual Wiki page(s) for documenting. =)

@proud cobalt ^

https://github.com/asledgehammer/ZedScriptParser

That too, Calvy.

=)

[languid kayak]

my thought too, I still gotta do take care of modding a little, Glytcher gave me some pointers and uploaded one image that's currently not used, too

[drifting seal]

That is my organization. All the 58 repositories (private & public) are PZ-related.

I have to privatize my Java mods because of copyright / IP for the game.

[digital helm]

Something interesting like that I'd say to include in trivia. I didn't know it either

[digital helm]

I always forget the wiki news got moved. I'd say to move it back, or have it in both places

[digital helm]

I wouldn't consider it a laundromat. Looks like it's just a laundry room for staff. A laundromat is usually a self contained business open to the public

[digital helm]

This is all pretty neat and would be good to have documented. I think @flint vapor has been doing a lot of work for modding

[flint vapor]

Sadly haven't had time to put in it, I do hope to take some time to write stuff about modding on the wiki

Albion seems to have done more than me currently lmao

[drifting seal]

My work here is specific to documentation

So this is right down my alley.

I wrote the Java api documentation tools for projects such as pipewrench, Umbrella, and now Pythoid. =)

Trying to wrap up a couple projects first before hitting the wiki.

[lucid junco]

This table under each page

[digital helm]

That's the location navbox https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_locations

[lucid junco]

Oh, completely forgot whats its called

[languid kayak]

both, I'd say won't hurt

added on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Project_Zomboid_Wiki – still needs adding on language ones

[quasi thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/clash-royale-happy-gif-15129684

[quasi thunder]

Is this only on the English version for now?

[languid kayak]

Yes

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Louisville&diff=next&oldid=568077
@languid kayak @digital helm

Looks inappropriate to me

It belongs to steam guides, not wiki page

[digital helm]

Definitely agree, especially with that style of guide.

Personally not a fan of a 'strategy' section in general, as most of the time it's subjective. Allow people to play it the way they want, we should just be documenting the facts, not suggesting how they should play the game. At least beyond the basics.
Interested in what others think

[proud cobalt]

Thanks for that, howd you go with the tiles?

[drifting seal]

Work in progress

Got around 1k lines in the script

[tulip kiln]

Personally I think if we're gonna have strategy sections, they'd be better in their own page.

[drifting seal]

Filling in some of the properties stuff

[proud cobalt]

I think its ok in the context of something like leveling first aid with glass shards. Telling a player something that can be done. But not a fan of stuff like this

[proud cobalt]

Awesome, Are you manually mapping the types and such?

[drifting seal]

I'm writing a translation for the utility classes for the properties

[naive rock]

not to mention for a long time the "strategy" guide section for stitches told players to not bandage stitched wounds, because bandaging them increases infection chance and slows down healing.

In reality, the opposite is true

so who knows what else is in the strategy sections that just makes no sense

[digital helm]

I agree, but I think we've moved away from the whole 'guide' thing, since steam is much better for it, and it quickly becomes outdated on the wiki.
That example seems like a general mechanic/common strategy that if it is included, would be on a vehicle page or something stating 'toot horn to lure zombie', then people can use where they want

[digital helm]

I agree with that. Things like that make sense to me. It's lesser known

[digital helm]

Been plenty of stuff like that in the wiki in general 😆 but yeah, I agree.
Strategy also becomes an invitation to describe the way that 'you' play the game, rather than being based on the game mechanics

[quasi thunder]

What is "legend"?

[proud cobalt]

Its a table that shows what the icons mean

The legend for this map is the top right

[quasi thunder]

Yes, but what does it mean? Because the direct translation doesn’t explain anything at all.

[quasi thunder]

🤔

Wow

I just found out that the word "legend" in Ukrainian has another meaning. For example, on a map.

[quasi thunder]

Like here

[digital helm]

legend is often interchangeable with key. In case that helps? legend in English here just means 'things to be read'

Whereas key is the literal sense, "the key to the meaning of these icons"

[quasi thunder]

The problem is that in Ukrainian there is also such a meaning, but almost no one knows it. Only cartographers, perhaps. And there isn’t another universal word for it. So my ‘translation partner’ and I will figure out the best way to handle it later. Thanks for the explanation, Vaileasys and Calvy.

[digital helm]

All good. Must be fun translating 😄

[proud cobalt]

No envy here

[digital helm]

@robust latch do you or anyone else have any problem with this?

is using the foraging field in the [infobox] template the right one for headgear? This is currently part of the media section. See Football Helmet as an example. If not, would it be possible that either you or someone else add a row for the foraging penalty of any piece of headgear?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User_talk:Vaileasys#Headgear

They're talking about foraging_change parameter in the item infobox (the one we use for media).
The original intention of that param was for how much a skill changes, similar to how moodles are. E.g. +15xp https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Exposure_Survival_E7
Their example with the Football Helmet is foraging = -75%.

[proud cobalt]

Just noticed that as the bot was rearranging its position, i think this is fine usage personally

[digital helm]

Yeah, I'm in favour of it. Only concern is that it may (?) cause some confusion if it's used for slightly different cases (more so if/when we add a tooltip)

[quasi thunder]

Why does this table not use the translation?

[drifting seal]

@proud cobalt This script doesn't do anything new but shows the progress from yesterday:

I'll need to invoke IsoWorld.LoadTileDefinitionsPropertyStrings() in my code then use the alias mapping to identify properties set and modified by the game after loading.

So that's my current WIP.

[quasi thunder]

Internet without frames😎

[languid kayak]

not a fan of strategy sections too, too subjective ino

[languid kayak]

you can translate it as "explanation" . Also, what does physical maps say in Ukraine?

[quasi thunder]

I still wrote a direct translation because that’s how it is on the maps. Of course, not everyone knows this meaning of the word, but it’s just a reason to learn about it.

Wow, this description🤯

[languid kayak]

huh, it's on firearms, a placeholdery indeed, pinging @digital helm for this, not sure if it was intentional?

Wanted to clarified, but realized my knowledge of firearms is so low in-game; is the max range simply the range where you can target with firearms? As in more = can't highlight a target?

I added wiki news to the regional webpages; may want to translte the missing bit at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Project_Zomboid_Wiki/uk @quasi thunder (or anyone else) https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Project_Zomboid_Wiki/uk&diff=577841&oldid=560691

[quasi thunder]

Cool, it's more convenient and more logical.

[quasi thunder]

@languid kayak Is there a possibility to translate the names of the months? Like in the news list. It’s not that it’s important, just why not; after all, it seems to be the only thing that hasn’t been translated on the main page.

[languid kayak]

I think we had the discussion with Vail about it, they used to be translated in the database, but now are pulled from mediawiki. Do you have interface language set to Ukrainian?

Actually, I think it uses your preference, too

that's how it looks for me

take a look here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering-dateformat

[quasi thunder]

Yeap

[quasi thunder]

But does the appearance of articles depend on the language of the interface?

[languid kayak]

I think it's globally English unfortunately :/ I think we tried doing something with that but I don't remember what was the end result?

pinging @digital helm for the discussion above in case you remember more

Do we need this trivia? Seems not? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Church&curid=27655&diff=560565&oldid=425169

[languid kayak]

Is this corret btw? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=TV_Magazine&curid=19669&diff=560569&oldid=511605 Where these can be found? They don't seem to have a location table, but there might be a survivor story. Pinging @proud cobalt for that

[proud cobalt]

If it's true keep the first sentence and link to the story if there's a page for it yet?

[proud cobalt]

Not in any of the distribution lua files. I dont know where survivor stories are, seems to me like one of those items that has been missed

[proud cobalt]

I have reverted for now

[proud cobalt]

League of Legends wiki just moved off fandom!
https://wiki.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/

https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-gb/news/announcements/the-official-league-of-legends-wiki/

[digital helm]

It should, it's just that it often doesn't on the documentation page. This is a limitation caused by our documentation template. When using it on a page it should translate

[digital helm]

I got lazy 😆 @naive rock do you have a good definition for maximum range, for the firearm legend?

[quasi thunder]

It's literally a screenshot of the documentation, but even there it doesn't work.

[naive rock]

"range you shouldn't be shooting at unless you want a 0% crit chance"

jokes aside, it's fine as is imo. just there for consistency anyhow

[rotund echo]

So how do we write strategy about Louisville? Surviving there doesn't employ much different strategy from other cities

Most tips to survive in Louisville aren't unique to Louisville only

In addition, the city is extremely large compared to other cities on the map. Its better to think of it as an area of the map, rather than an individual settlement. Louisville is very big and diverse, which also means different strategies also apply to different sections of Louisville

[rotund echo]

For all I know in Louisville? Just be very careful and cautious of buildings. This is for the downtown part (or any large significant building)

[languid kayak]

I think we had discussion about it, there's no story as-is for married couple to spawn, it's just a type of zombie that can spawn in churches

at least that's how I understood it from I think what mid(?) or someone else explained 😄

[languid kayak]

not in indie wiki buddy, but seems there's already an issue filled 🙂 https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/860

[languid kayak]

0% crit chance but some damage can be done over it?

[naive rock]

pretty much

but without crits you suddenly become very aware of how weirdly low gun damage is in pz.

Also nice avatar, I like it

[languid kayak]

thanks, using it for a while 😄 With the amount of touhou enjoyers around here, I am surprised you are the first to comment so far 😄

[naive rock]

got a lot of friends who like Marisa

and one who's probably her biggest hater, to sometimes a silly degree

[languid kayak]

Gotta go shortly, but updated the description nevertheless https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Legend_firearm

[proud cobalt]

Absolutely wonderful. This is a huge wiki being moved off Fandom into devs hosting. Love to see it

[naive rock]

but regardless, have yall considered adding crit multiplier to the firearms section on the weapons page?

Also, firearm damage is always reduced to 63% of your damage total, no matter what you do, so should the weapons page reflect that?

Lastly, the crit growth rate is actually higher than just the code snippet says- since the game adds

(crit growth + 3) x aiming level

to your crit chance.

So effectively it's higher than it would seem at first glance but it can be argued that the crit growth is only 10%, and it's just a mechanic that makes it 13%, for example, so not sure what to do with that

Guess that also applies to firearm damage.

[naive rock]

oh let's go!

good for them

[proud cobalt]

We had some discussion on here and if theres going to be any strategy it has to be objective, the example we had was using broken glass to level first aid xp. Specifically for locations there's a rework tag with an example of the other towns strategy sections.

#pzwiki_editing message #pzwiki_editing message #pzwiki_editing message #pzwiki_editing message #pzwiki_editing message #pzwiki_editing message

[tawdry steeple]

hey there, is anyone else having issues with the roomdef wiki page? it had been loading pretty slow before but since the last update it just wont load for me

[proud cobalt]

Actually yes, though what do you mean by last update? Mine has been slow for about 3 days and the big pages have been slower than usual to load. Room defs, items, etc @digital helm Might be worth a look at recent load times?

[tawdry steeple]

yeah, 3 days ago there was an update

[lucid junco]

Tbh Id scrap all of strategies all together since everyone has their own way to approach the situation

[tawdry steeple]

it did finally load but took like 4 mins 😆

[proud cobalt]

Just took me 55 seconds

[tawdry steeple]

yeah may be just me

Mexican internet

[proud cobalt]

Most of the time is rendering which shouldnt really be an internet issue

[tawdry steeple]

oh ye

interesting... my pc aint bad at all

[digital helm]

55 seconds is still way too long. I just checked and had trouble loading it (100mb). I'll take a closer look when I get home

[proud cobalt]

I'm on gigabit on my PC. I couldnt even get the profiler to work on opera, would run out of memory, had to use clean version of edge. All chromium though

Loading only took 52ms which AFAIK is the actual page download times

I wonder if something made tables harder to render? That many tables on one page would make it particularly suceptible

Hopefully not sticky columns

[digital helm]

the sticky columns only uses css, and only a few lines. I removed a similar amount of css lines as I added. I'd say it's more likely to be the tooltip js

[digital helm]

Removing the tooltip js decreased load time significantly. From 45s to 2.8s, which was similar to disabling js altogether.
I don't know enough about this, but my understanding was that the script shouldn't run until after the page has loaded, and even then, any performance hit would be during runtime and not initial loading.

Either way, since it looks like that was the culprit, the tooltip info icon will have to be shelved for now. There are ways of doing it with css only, but they're not as graceful as using js. @proud cobalt

[proud cobalt]

That's crazy, There must be something in that js doing it, it can't just be its existence

[digital helm]

Looks like it's still an issue 🤔 are you able to confirm on your end?

[proud cobalt]

On mobile now, but still an issue on 5G. Would the JS be cached?

Whenever something doesn't change on MediaWiki I always assume cache

[digital helm]

Appears to be the citizen skin. Compare
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns 43s
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns?useskin=vector 2s

[proud cobalt]

Man it destroys my phone