pzwiki_editing

[round flume]

I have no clue how I am going to do the visuals for this video, might just use the spread sheet for better readability

[serene sage]

where does "Survivor Prestige" fall under then?

seems like it's more important than Nitro Booster

[languid kayak]

I guess it helps that technically you can read the game code's java files

[languid kayak]

I think something's wrong with the bot @proud cobalt ? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Big_Cork_Noteboard&curid=42635&diff=385789&oldid=382915

It seems you did it for couple of other logos as well 😄 Not terrible, but noticable especially as you mentioned it 😄

[woven portal]

im uhh

a bit of a special case

being the biggest yapper on this server

[serene sage]

damn

[languid kayak]

Seems it was supposed to just replace the Comfort tiles to just Comfort but it picked Decoration tiles and changed it to Comfort 😄

[proud cobalt]

🤔 How the hell

Will fix it today, likely not till tonight

This is a feature of citizen (the new skin) rather than an issue. Overall the skin makes mobile use of the wiki much better. But I'll still ping @digital helm

Im level 13 rank 750ish I've never spoken anywhere but wiki chat lol

[woven portal]

Well, for me and a few people ive moaned at about it, its harder to check values quickly lol, if somehow just these pages can be adjusted so that the entire table can be seen like before thatd be perfect

Overall I think it looks quite neat, but scrolling to the right to see all the info is quite annoying, when trying to compare items

[woven portal]

yeah lol i noticed theres even a few vets that got that rank exclusively through a single channel like wiki editing, modelling or mod dev lol

[languid kayak]

That's done now, surprisingly there's a lot of red links still in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles (and two redirects at least) and some in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list#Furniture still – conversely the Tiles page lacks a lot of the new tiles (and all signs/mirrors/curtains/floors)

[proud cobalt]

Yeah these pages are pretty much last on the to do

[languid kayak]

Why wasn't them created? Was these the bot errors or they weren't extracted for whatever reason?

[proud cobalt]

Not sure, heres that file with failed ones

[languid kayak]

ah, it was a redirect https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Fitness_contraption&redirect=no

other than that, a short list indeed

btw, for some reason some tile pages have an empty line; could use as a mundane bot task if you want https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Espresso_Deluxe&type=revision&diff=389941&oldid=389939

And some have double newlines in them too

And most pages lack the subcategory of navbox tiles, from back when they were just created without categorization: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Small_Chrome_Toaster&type=revision&diff=389945&oldid=381461

oh wait, I never realized we have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tile_list 😄

[proud cobalt]

Yeah i noticed this, something wrong with my remove line script, i figured id do it once all infobox minipulation was done

[proud cobalt]

Also not added yet

[proud cobalt]

That's helpful

[languid kayak]

Added movable redirects in red links in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Room_definitions_and_item_spawns – still some red links remaining, mainly containers (I think some are bags?) and the ammo straps

Some https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:BrokenRedirects till pages gets added though

[woven portal]

see in pz chat i feel smart but here i got some high level stuff above my paygrade happening

[round flume]

If i were to make a spread sheet with every storage items size, with and without organized would it be possible to make a wiki page for it

[serene sage]

probably not if it’s only the table, might be better to try and fit it in a pre existing article

[round flume]

maybe

[digital helm]

You mean for bags? I think adding columns to the existing table would be fine https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bags#Containers

[round flume]

And containers

[digital helm]

We still have some work to do for some of the tables, to reduce their width

[digital helm]

Same story with them. That could be added to these tables https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Storage (these may need a redesign anyway)

[round flume]

I have been looking for this lol

ty

Updating those with organized would be usefulll

[digital helm]

I think so too. We've only recently touched on the idea of including organised/unorganised capacities, which is only on the individual item's pages https://pzwiki.net/wiki/School_Bag

as a tooltip - so not very obvious

[round flume]

right

[woven portal]

the image you made is very helpful btw, thanks

i use the gun radius, bottle capacity excels a lot lol

this one will be another

[digital helm]

As screens have gotten wider, text heavy websites have changed to a content width of about 1000px, as it's proven to be the ideal width for reading, so wikis have done this too. But this width is awful for data heavy tables.

We switched to a new skin (vector-2022) at the start of the year as the original one (vector) is terrible to use on a small display, like a phone. But this was locked at 1000px. A lot of us stayed on the old skin for this reason. We've just recently (a week ago) switched to the citizen skin which is 100x better for mobile, toggleable dark/light mode, and adjustable content width (see bottom left cogwheel).

Unfortunately, the design of these things is outside of our control, we can just pick the best one for the majority of users, and try to work around the issues (we'll never be able to please everyone)

[woven portal]

Yeah, I appreciate that, personally though I think it would be better off in the older style

I mean you could poll it and see what people prefer

So far though, i think most prefer the older style

Its just plain easier to look at the info in one screen rather than scrolling, yknow

[digital helm]

Do they use it on mobile though?

The other problem we had was people wanting dark mode

The old one has no dark mode. No one needs to create an account to change settings

This is the biggest weapons table with the old and new skin (set at 100vw)

1080p btw

[digital helm]

#pzwiki_editing message just added it a few days ago 😄

[proud cobalt]

Who is most people? Is there discussion somewhere?

[woven portal]

Sorry, most that ive asked

Well, again, you could poll it, or keep it as is

Im not an arbiter of what the Wiki looks like lol

Just putting in my 2 cents

If you reckon its better this way, then sure, keep it

[woven portal]

and this is on mobile, not pc right? on a 16:9 ratio, it will be cutting off the durability and Item ID section

Ill show what it looks like to me looking it up on PC

1080p, 16:9

[proud cobalt]

On 16:9 it only cuts off the base id

[digital helm]

We definitely appreciate the feedback. Don't think we don't 😄

[woven portal]

wait lemme get chrome up actually

i doubt most use opera

[proud cobalt]

Im on opera

[woven portal]

well, thats how it is on 1080p GX on 100%

for me at the very least

[digital helm]

hmm... browsers is part the problem here 🤔 I use chrome

[proud cobalt]

But my citizen settings might not be default we've been testing for a while

[woven portal]

i have a main 2k monitor too

i could show on chrome too

just gimme a sec

[proud cobalt]

My image is on my 1080p monitor on 100%

[woven portal]

like im not here to criticise lol

[proud cobalt]

We dont think you are

We've had people here to critisize before

Youre not doing it

[woven portal]

me at and the very least @naive rock think it is less convenient to use

[digital helm]

annoyingly, default is 1080px. Wish we could change it to 100vw

[proud cobalt]

Just looked and i have my page width on 1440px

Thats why my table is wider

[naive rock]

yeah it's cut off for me as well

[digital helm]

change to 100vw in the cog wheel (page width)

[proud cobalt]

We cant chnage default page width?

[woven portal]

I'm installing chrome rn to see what a 1080p and a 2k fullscreen would look like for most

[woven portal]

yeah but thats the thing

[proud cobalt]

Just to test it i think he means

[woven portal]

most people looking at the wiki would not be adjusting it

they would be checking it quickly and at a glance, i think the older version would be better

[woven portal]

fair

[digital helm]

yeah... as I said, wish it could be default

wikipedia is the same now though

[proud cobalt]

This is on edge (Chromium) default

[woven portal]

yeah, so unlike previously, it is cut off on the end

for items ID and durability

[proud cobalt]

Durability is important enough that its worth looking into, baseid id say fuck it

[woven portal]

Well, whether or not the right side of the info is important enough to consider is a separate issue

What im saiyng is for comparison or just a genereal glance, it is more inconvenient to have the right sections cut off

I am not sure if its possible to revert it just for the pages with extra collumns, or the whole wiki will need to revert

But I think, if someone wants to use the wiki for info/comparison, it would be more useful/convenient to use a style that presents all the detals in one page

[proud cobalt]

Vector 22 has scrolling for tables on mobile im testing now

But is also zoomed out to full scale

So the worst of both worlds

[digital helm]

this was something we had to add in-page, otherwise they were cut off and you couldn't even scroll

[proud cobalt]

Vector classic is too old to maintain

[woven portal]

this is how it appears on my chrome mobile atm

[digital helm]

nah, it's wiki-wide only

[proud cobalt]

This is vector 22. It doesn't fix the issue

[woven portal]

I posted above how it is seen at least on my device, chrome mobile

[woven portal]

I would say, even this is better than the one that is used ATM

[woven portal]

here

[digital helm]

tables are always going to be hard to make good on mobile. The best we'll be able to do is have the horizontal scrolling

[proud cobalt]

On this page only, at the expense of every other page on the wiki

[woven portal]

Well again, I dont mean to claim to speak for most users

But i would say

If there is info to be googled about say, items

[proud cobalt]

Not to mention the mobile functionality citizen provides

[woven portal]

People would prefer a place with most of the info in one place

[woven portal]

Well, on my device I have not seen an improvement, sorry

Not sure if its an android issue or what but

Samsung S21 5G, Chrome browser

[proud cobalt]

Lol

Theres an objective improvement in functionality

[woven portal]

Hey, as I said, I'm not here to tell yall how to do your stuff

[proud cobalt]

Theres literally more functionality

Thats not a subjective thing

[woven portal]

Ok, well please tell me how it is better, because to me so far, it seems more inconvenient

Geniuenly, im not being like argumentative

[proud cobalt]

The mobile toolbar

For starters

[digital helm]

Here's some of the feedback from the previous skin #pzwiki_editing message

[proud cobalt]

Literally the opposite opinion

[woven portal]

Yeah i do agree on the PC layout forced on both mobile and pc point

[woven portal]

this, right?

Like again i really hope yall dont take it the wrong way

[digital helm]

We looked at adding a separate front-end for mobile and PC, but it's like running a separate site, and is a lot of sysadmin work, for both setting up, and every time we need to add or update anything on the back-end.

for little gain imo

[woven portal]

Yeah no I totally get that

[digital helm]

nah, you're good. Most of the feedback hasn't been constructive in the slightest 😄 c.f. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki_talk:Community_portal/Wiki_theme

[woven portal]

I just feel like it would be better prioritising PC usage over mobile, IMO, while the previous style wasnt adjust to mobile, it was perfectly usable, but I think it doesnt quite work well the other way around. As I said, I'm not a wiki editor, its ultimately up to you guys, and if you wanna know if this version or previous version is better you could always poll it, but not being able to see at a glance what for example the weapons list looks like inlcuding all of its features, is a downgrade from the previous style.

It is a PC game, and I believe if people use the wiki for it, they are more likely to google it on the PC they are using to play it, but again I cant exactly prove it without the userbase chipping in

If this is how you want the wiki laid out, fine, more power to ya, but I think it was nicer to check stats on the older version.

Ultimately what i want is for the user experience to be smooth you know, lol

[digital helm]

This was my thought too when we first started considering mobile users. But apparently a lot of people use mobile to look stuff up instead of tabbing out

[proud cobalt]

Thats the toolbar yes, it means users can search and change their settings at any point on the page

[woven portal]

I mean, I do too but is this layout really more convenient?

[proud cobalt]

On this page only

We do prioritise pc users

[woven portal]

It is an important page I would say, no?

Like the profession or trait page

If someone was to look up say, a hammer, they would be better off looking at its stats compared to others in its class? no?

[proud cobalt]

Its a tradeoff between a few pages and the entire wiki usability

Everyone uses the wiki differently

[woven portal]

Yeah but that is really my point, are the pages with more info put on one page not more frequented than individual pages for items?

[proud cobalt]

Theres over 5000 articles how do you prioritise say ten over the majority

[woven portal]

If thats how you think is better to do it, more power to ya man! I am just putting in my opinion as a frequent user

I cant speak for most pz players or anything lol

[proud cobalt]

I cant change the skin, just my opinion. I also cant see the data for pages

[woven portal]

like i definitely agree

individual pages are much nicer now

[proud cobalt]

But at least the choice is there for people to change the settings on the fly to see the whole table, or change the skin if they want

Like players have the choice

even if most wont

Its not like we're forcing them to not see the table

[woven portal]

Well, how would you find out about using the old skin?

I only found out because i was linked directly in here

[proud cobalt]

There was a banner last time i looked, ive been inactive for about a week

[woven portal]

The average user googling "weapons project zomboid" will be linked to the current layout

[woven portal]

oh sorry lemme check

[proud cobalt]

Its not there

But it was when the skin changed

[woven portal]

yeah just checked it aint

[proud cobalt]

Theres also a gear icon which is a universal image for changing settings

[woven portal]

like, it would be nice at the very least to have the old option there and visible?

[woven portal]

yeah but again man, im talking from the perspective of an average user googling this stuff

[proud cobalt]

It follows the material design system guidelines

Which is used for all google and google oriented products

[woven portal]

i know most of this info anyway, its not for my convenience

[proud cobalt]

Which includes mobile and web pages

We cant do much more than that

[digital helm]

I'll add this to the 'sidebar'

[woven portal]

please, if possible at the top with the "revised" part

[digital helm]

what do you mean, "revised" part?

[proud cobalt]

View history?

[woven portal]

at the top

so its visible immediately

[proud cobalt]

Oh thats part of the article

Not the skin

[digital helm]

oh, yeah

we used to have a site notice, but just removed it as it takes up too much space

[proud cobalt]

We have moved away from sitewide uses (in articles) like the old language bar

Everything has moved to the sidebar

[woven portal]

I would say i use the wiki more than most, and i wasnt aware of a site notice lol

[digital helm]

it'd be in here (which citizen has collapsed)

[proud cobalt]

Again following standards

[woven portal]

in pz and gen chat that is

I use the wiki as a source frequently, but it doesnt stand out enough to be seen easily

[woven portal]

Could it possibly be out of a collasible menu

Most people barely read info that is right there on display, much less stuff that requires clicking something

[digital helm]

unfortunately not, that's part of the skin.

[woven portal]

agh

[proud cobalt]

Again we've moved away from that, like the old language bar following standards set by material design and wikimedia

[woven portal]

well i guess thats something at least

[digital helm]

Here's the last couple of site notices btw
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&oldid=365717
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&oldid=319261

[proud cobalt]

Ultimately the choice is still there for users, both in skin and by changing skin, vector 22 will be reverted to its base light mode state so it can follow updates by wikimedia contributors without us maintaining it. Vail will add the option to the sidebar

[woven portal]

Please have the option to revert more visible

[proud cobalt]

Its not possible

We do not maintain citizen

[woven portal]

I appreciate the effort to make it more user friendly but it needs to be able to be seen

[proud cobalt]

Make a feature request

[digital helm]

I've asked Kirrus if he has any input. Ultimately it's his decision. But I think he first brought up the concern of updating to a modern skin, and being mobile friendly

[proud cobalt]

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Citizen

[woven portal]

Its certainly a mobile layout! But IS it more mobile friendly in practice? Personally I would say not quite. But again, its just my opinion out of all the potential users.

I would say, it might be worth seeing the opinion of wiki users through a poll, whether or not they prefer current or old style.

[proud cobalt]

Ultimately its a TIS website and up to Kirrus

[digital helm]

I'll consider our options, but I'm concerned having it anywhere else would be REALLY out of place

[woven portal]

I will personally ask what the user experience of using the current wiki is, when it is used, just so I can see if im just being stubborn or if it really is less convenient

Like again, the wiki is in a great state atm

and i appreciate the work put into it

dont get me wrong

I just wanna make sure people looking for wiki info do so in a convenient manner

for example, one of the main pages on the PZ wiki home page, crafting, has this on PC, its a bit confusing since its all in a row

[digital helm]

that's an issue with that page, we'll have to fix that

[woven portal]

The Collumn table heads are there, but its all horizontal, lol

[woven portal]

kk cool

[digital helm]

thank you for point it out 😄

[woven portal]

yeah the whole page has turned horizontal lol just fyi

np! as i said, im only here to ensure PZ players have a good time lol

ill fix what i can see needs fixing, and ill point out what needs pointing out

[digital helm]

We all feel the same. It's just our opinions on what is more convenient seem to differ

[woven portal]

it really does annoy me when pz chatters say wiki is unreliable

cause that hasnt been true for like 2 years at least

its more reliable than the google results you get since you have some redditor speak out of their ass with no testing on stuff lol

"yeah lucky totally gives you 20 katanas and 1% to survive a bite"

[digital helm]

I think a lot of people get it mixed up with the fandom wiki. I've seen some people say they didn't know pzwiki existed, as fandom appeared first in their search

[woven portal]

i think currently the pz wiki is first in the searches

there is also unidentifiable.info

not sure on the reliability on that

it seems to be accurate for a fair amount of Lootzed values

[proud cobalt]

Its a couple patches behind i believe

But fandom is in like 2013

I believe unidentifiable.info is autogenerated

[digital helm]

I'm unsure if nolan still maintains undeniable

[proud cobalt]

There has been a huge push on pzwiki in the past 12months

[woven portal]

it was more accurate on Boots info earlier

thats what i came in here with adjusting last time lol

[proud cobalt]

We recently got every page up to current version, there were still 2.0 pages less than 3 months ago

[woven portal]

Yeah its easy to miss with so many individual pages

[digital helm]

Found this old post. When there was so much to do, I wanted to know what to prioritise 😄 https://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/3559414588255749717/

[proud cobalt]

We still find pages nobody knew existed

We found old templates from a decade ago just a few weeks ago

[woven portal]

lol man i was here lurking in the discord since 39 and really its only post mp 41 where it sharpened up

Wiki really was in quite a state

im glad its where it is now

[proud cobalt]

5 projects completed this year

[woven portal]

and im even more glad its not fandom

[digital helm]

even though the info was outdated, it looked so much worse because there was zero consistency between each article

[woven portal]

yeah and it was really half playerbase superstitions lol

[proud cobalt]

4 actually

[serene sage]

the ads on Fandom are really bad anyway

[proud cobalt]

B41, Construction, Electricals, Navigation, and hopefully soon Furniture

[digital helm]

I doubt I would've ever started contributing if it was fandom

[woven portal]

i fucking hate fandom i hope the corpos who made it that way burn

[serene sage]

I'm glad Antifandom exists for when I need to check a wiki that only exists on Fandom

[proud cobalt]

Fandom hate goes hard

[digital helm]

glad a lot of wikis are moving away from fandom now

but their seo is so good, that they struggle to be found

[proud cobalt]

Minecraft wiki moved this year!

Back to wikimedia where it all started

[digital helm]

can't really blame people for going to fandom to start with. MediaWiki back-end is a PITA to deal with from what I've heard

so unless you have the funds, and knowledge, it's not really an option to self-host

[digital helm]

oh man, I was so overwhelmed when 41 came out. There was so much already outdated and so many new features that I had to take many long breaks. Thankfully Faalagorn came around and really helped get things back on track

[woven portal]

yeah but you try and open a fandom page

BAM a fullscreen ad

you close it

3 more ads

its awful i hate it

[woven portal]

soooo much misinfo lol

hell i helped spread half of it lmao

[digital helm]

me too probably

[woven portal]

but yeah the whole move from 40 to 41 was hard lol

[digital helm]

only so much time to test things yourself, you need to rely on others

[woven portal]

stuff that worked this or that way just didnt anymore

[woven portal]

ye lol

and some of the test conditions are hard to set up

[digital helm]

from 40 to 41, we were also unsure whether to just updat to 41, or stick with 40 as the main content, since 41 was still iwbums

[woven portal]

yea but i feel like we all basically took IWBUMS as main lol

[digital helm]

coming into 42, we much more prepared. The page version is much clearer too

[woven portal]

what is possible was changed to IWBUMS info

[digital helm]

yeah, that was why we made the decision to jsut do it in the end

[woven portal]

ye ye i think b41 really helped flesh out the wiki process

theres a lot more ppl trying to help out and maintain it now

from 3k average to 60k lmao

[digital helm]

the number of people too, helped a lot. Very few people pre 41

[woven portal]

yeah exactly

i mean even now

ppl are reluctant to submit wiki errors

theyd rather complain than see that its fixed

[digital helm]

I'm always surprised with some of the knowledge people have too, and I think "add that to the wiki" 😄

I understand people don't want to make a mistake, but we're more than happy to help people

[woven portal]

bruh i swear half the concrete info spawns from arguments

trying to see debug to prove someone wrong

ending up adding more info to the wiki 🤣

didnt even realise ice packs dont be icepackin in freezers anymore

also what IS up with muld logging corp extra warehouses

[digital helm]

I just learnt something new!

[woven portal]

they got unique loot tables for some reason

[woven portal]

yeah lol they definitely were in the freezer loot pool a couple years ago

[digital helm]

yeah, it was always those popsicle ones

mods are a pretty big issue now. Pretty much everyone uses so many of them, when it was quite normal to play without mods pre b41

[woven portal]

like why? this is unique to mccoys logging extra warehouses

just plain weird lol

a lot of how pz works is an enigma

[woven portal]

yeah a lot of people assume their game as vanilla

[digital helm]

yeah, a lot of stuff I wouldn't have expected there 🤔

[woven portal]

and yeah before b41.60 even trying to get a save going without breaking was tough

swat pack was there from early IWBUMS days and broke like 6 times lmao

[woven portal]

not sure why it needed a specific half assed loot table lol

[digital helm]

tbh though, the current loot tables are far better than they were

go into a kitchen and find no utensils

[woven portal]

was it that way?

also idk how you add a whole lower rarity and STILL dont fix the issue of too much food

[digital helm]

I think this was me that broke this yesterday 🤔

[digital helm]

I remember going into several houses looking for something to cook with

or to put water in

[round flume]

No problem 🙂 glad to help

[woven portal]

lol, you better fix it or else

[digital helm]

yep, undid my edit and it's fixed

[woven portal]

ill make an ever bigger stink in wiki editing channel!

hmm

you pass

for now

[woven portal]

really rare someone actually provides useful infographics lol

last time i saw a good excel sheet was in b41.60 MP, 2+ years ago

[round flume]

I was making it for my youtube video to use while i made visuals but the visuals were really slow since i try to keep my videos fast paced but informational

[round flume]

damn thats a long time lol

[woven portal]

Yeah? Send me a link once youre done

ill share it when anyone asks for a backpack overview

[round flume]

oh its out already and on reddit, ill dm you rq

[digital helm]

I've had to undo this and come back to it later. Even just changing the doc is breaking the template 🤔 @proud cobalt

[digital helm]

yeah... I broke it again... so going to leave it for now 😄

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Cold_Pack#Distribution

[proud cobalt]

🤔

[serene sage]

the fandom wiki for PZ even links to our wiki as a “useful” link which I find pretty funny

they also only have 170 ish pages

supposedly the last thursdoid was in December

yeah the fandom wiki seems pretty dead to me

[proud cobalt]

I wish there was a way to remove it, its fully dead

I've looked a couple times

[serene sage]

I clicked on what supposedly is the random article button and got sent to a blank page that seems to be part of a “consumables” category

what is this “consumables” category?

[digital helm]

should see the vehicles page. It's pretty much a 1:1 copy of our vehicles page

[serene sage]

none other than “challenges”

who knew

[proud cobalt]

This image is on our wiki, this exact one. I was experimenting with making it an apng
https://projectzomboid.fandom.com/wiki/Vehicles?file=Vehicle_control.gif

[digital helm]

that one is from a thursdoid

[proud cobalt]

Ahh ok well in that case i retract 😆

[digital helm]

yep. All from one user

[proud cobalt]

I mean

Why?

Just contribute here

[digital helm]

My guess is it was ikip. He didn't know we existed at first

[serene sage]

the moodles page is almost an exact copy of ours (before it got split) just in a different order and worse formatting somehow: https://antifandom.com/projectzomboid/wiki/Moodles

[proud cobalt]

Wow i need to use antifandom

[digital helm]

but then it was copied... 🤔 so idk

[serene sage]

works with any fandom page, though it does screw with the formatting a bit

[proud cobalt]

Moodles is a little more look the other wayable because its just in game traits with exact working from the trait. But still not cool

[digital helm]

oh cool, didn't know that existed

[serene sage]

also some info is (as expected) misleading

if I’m not mistaken painkillers only suppress pain correct?

[woven portal]

yeah just a tad more useful

a tiny bit

[woven portal]

uhh

im in debug rn

lemme check

[proud cobalt]

Could be under any name, ikip is a known puppeter

[serene sage]

this is just straight up wrong

imagine if scratches were 100% lethal

[digital helm]

removes it temporarily iirc

[serene sage]

yeah basically what I said

so it does not “remove” pain

just reduces its effects

[woven portal]

well atm

put a deep wound on

and 1 painkiller

pain at 0 atm

[digital helm]

yeah, so sets to 0 for a limited time

[proud cobalt]

My boys are always chugging painkillers im a terrible survivor

[woven portal]

i put a bunch of random shit up just to see if it affects anything else

but yeah, so far, only pain, and straight to zero after 1 pill

lemme see with multiple wounds

[serene sage]

wait a few in game hours

pain should increase again if it’s not healed yet

[woven portal]

so, deep wound every possible place

trying 1 painkiller

[digital helm]

poor fella

[woven portal]

ok gotta find a way for him to not bleed out immediately

lmao

[serene sage]

god mode

now

[woven portal]

that will heal

the wounds

[serene sage]

oh

[woven portal]

no moodles

[serene sage]

right

hmmm

just one is fine I think

give him a scratch

still quite a bit of pain but not lethal

[woven portal]

nvm

there it is

ill just click it as hes bout to die

[serene sage]

ok sure I guess

[woven portal]

poor npc

[serene sage]

isn’t he the player though?

[woven portal]

1 painkiller, a few ingame hours

no pain

deep wound on every single limb

its p much useless info, but damn pz drugs are powerful

[serene sage]

pain always returns for me when my character’s wounds still haven’t healed

do you have any mods enabled?

[woven portal]

nope

if i do any debug testing its always mod free

otherwise whats the point lol

[serene sage]

what cheats do you have active

[serene sage]

hmmm

[woven portal]

like overall this info is useless anyway lmao

[digital helm]

Found the problem. For some reason having <incldueonly> on the same line as {{#switch: was breaking it...
There was also an extra }} so I'll remove that.

[woven portal]

was fun trying to check it anyway

[woven portal]

gotta love me a bit of syntax issues

[serene sage]

sometimes I debug with mods to test them before using them for real

[digital helm]

wikiscript is the worst

[woven portal]

ye, best way to check really

since console is right there to show errors

love asking ppl who insist that they have "barely any mods" and their logs reference britas, superb survivors and hydrocraft

or more often britas + 3 other gun modpacks

[digital helm]

only a couple, but change/add the most stuff 😆

[serene sage]

I’m currently trying to quit my modding addiction

[woven portal]

not even gonna act like im good at any language lol

i can do python and a little bit of c++ cause of my job projects and training

i might just try pz modding just for work skill improvement

[serene sage]

a few weeks ago I played with 250+ mods in my “immersive” modset

[woven portal]

its not even about how many mods, its how they function

[serene sage]

my PC hated that and forced me at gunpoint to strip down on the mods

I’ve cut down to around 110+

[woven portal]

lol, i saw soooo many people subsribe to the entire Top downloaded 1st steam workshop page

[digital helm]

No idea how you guys do it... that seems like a ridiculous amount to me

[woven portal]

and then wonder why it aint working

[serene sage]

I have found it hard to keep cutting down tho

[woven portal]

like straight from the main steam page

using the little plus

no checking the mod pages or requirements

steam should disable that feature

or at least get the required mods you see if you visited the actual mod page

[serene sage]

right

[woven portal]

so many britas downloads WITHOUT gunfighter

[serene sage]

always read the descriptions

[digital helm]

people don't read it anyway. It's too simple to install mods in the workshop

[serene sage]

I do

top to bottom

[woven portal]

ye but like if you visit the page

[digital helm]

good, but a lot don't

[woven portal]

you are prompted to download the reqs

if you press the little plus from home page

[serene sage]

my 250 long modlist actually runs with zero errors because of that

[woven portal]

it just downloads it straight up

lmao

fuck required mods

you want britas no mod options no gunfigther? here you go, says steam

[serene sage]

“hey, want to use my cool mod? just get like ten other dependancies that have been last tested with b38!!!”

sometimes this happens and it’s disappointing

[woven portal]

bruh i think the main reason ppl dont get the obviously required dependecies is cause steam just lets you press the little plus and dowbload only the mod

[serene sage]

yeah

[woven portal]

what even is that DAMN library tee hee

[serene sage]

actually my biggest pet peeve is that within the in game mod menu usually mods will list dependancies and just activate all of the together will one click

sometimes though

the modder didn’t do it and you have to figure it out yourself

or worse

[woven portal]

the vanilla mod system in its entirety is a pet peeve lol

[serene sage]

start a broken save

[woven portal]

also i feel like we are shitting up pz wiki chat

sorry

[serene sage]

hmmm

yeah you’re probably right

[digital helm]

Always funny to me when I see an image from the wiki used in a mod or video 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Player_Character.png

[serene sage]

epic photoshop

[woven portal]

indicator? cant you see the light beaming from you

[digital helm]

maybe day time it's hard to tell?

[serene sage]

“guys, the new ValuTech flashlight has an led indicator to tell you when its on!!1!!111!”

[digital helm]

I see this one used frequently too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:PzLogo_BloodSplatter.png
Which is actually from this which is in the tech demo

[serene sage]

that image from the mod page looks like a mugshot lol

“two humans from kentucky have been found guilty for a combined 178 counts of murder, as well as many other charges such as arson , robbery, and destruction of property, says a zombified judge matt hass. also in today’s broadcast, general john mcgrew’s indiscriminate war against us zomboids continue with…”

[digital helm]

you're right

[serene sage]

damn

off to zomboid prison

also wow they’re six feet tall

[digital helm]

*not to scale (ignore the scale)

[proud cobalt]

Yikes

Please lua

https://tenor.com/view/lua-code-roblox-dev-gif-18009126595021948710

[digital helm]

it goes against what we've been doing to fix extra lines added in templates...

[proud cobalt]

I notice it all the time now

[serene sage]

the sudden bolding of the text at the bottom is such a wacky thing to put in an objective and “professional” wiki

“like a weirdo would”

clearly no standard wiki style is set in the fandom wiki

[digital helm]

the whole last half of that sentence is redundant 😄

just one person doing what they want by the looks of it

[proud cobalt]

Like a weirdo would

[serene sage]

do you say “locked” when you encounter a locked door?

anyway it’s 2am in the barren cold wasteland north of the US

it’s time to “sleep”

[lucid junco]

Which business is this

I cant find it

Nvm

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Kentucky_Rail

[woven portal]

like

out loud?

at my pc?

[serene sage]

yes

back to sleep I guess

[lucid junco]

Guys

I got to the bottom of the Signs folder

It looks beautiful

[woven portal]

i do it in fallout like my fallout 4 character

[lucid junco]

1)None
2)Linear
3)Cubic
4)NoHalo
5)LoHalo
@languid kayak

[digital helm]

I've added the link to switch to old skin @woven portal admittedly it's not great but it's a start, and better than nothing. I've just copied exactly how mediawiki/wikipedia does it (even used their system messages)

[lucid junco]

Idk which one is better

[woven portal]

hey, lol its nice if even just i know

appreciate it

[lucid junco]

But I can poke my eye out with None interpolation

[digital helm]

yeah, other than None, either look fine to me. No one will even notice any difference

[proud cobalt]

4-5 look best, cant tell other than that

[lucid junco]

@serene sage forgot that magazine stands can have annotated maps

Not just corpses and glove boxes

[digital helm]

@proud cobalt think reducing table padding would be a sufficient fix for the tables? Or at least a step towards a fix. Citizen seems to add a fair bit of padding.
This table goes from 1280px to 1096px for me (this will always change between browsers and settings)

This is 0.2em (sides & top/bottom). Citizen default is 0.5em x 0.75em

@languid kayak too for input

[proud cobalt]

Goes a long way to help

[digital helm]

having the icons cycle would be the next step. This would make all the important info visible at 1080px

[digital helm]

change is live now

[woven portal]

like item ids are barely relevant lol

its mainly the item stats themselves

dura total and dura loss chance

[woven portal]

lemme have a gander

yep 100% much better

i am personally happy with this setup, lol

item ids can stay hidden

most users dont even know how to launch debug much less use it

[digital helm]

I'm installing opera gx to test with that too. Annoyingly more and more browsers are adding their own sidebars, adding to the issue

[woven portal]

im on opera rn

its defo just fine now

i can see all the item stats at once

thanks for accomodating :D

[digital helm]

sweet. We'll do more over time to reduce it further. But glad this works for now

more changes are a lot more work

[woven portal]

nah generally individual pages do look better

and now that most can see the stats on the general pages

its just the right balance

so, we good, i hope 😄

unless someone else has some ancient smartphone web broswer layouts for you all to fix...

i have a blackberry i could extensively test it on :)))

[digital helm]

installs opera gx, keyboard lights start going mental 😄

[woven portal]

its a fun flavour of chinese spyware

[digital helm]

lol please don't 😆

[woven portal]

comes with data stealer 4!

[woven portal]

ahh, nokia 320x240 setup is better gotcha

[digital helm]

I like that all the data stealing opt out settings are hidden on install

[woven portal]

hell give me an hr ill be back witha sony erricson to test this site on

[woven portal]

tbh, it do be helping me out lol

but no being real

grateful for the adjustment

looking perfect now

ill scroll to item IDs when i need em lol

[digital helm]

it's hard to get feedback most of the time. And we get stuck in our setups that we can forget about the experience for others

So I appreciate the feedback

[woven portal]

ye, im only really trying to see it from someone who googles "x pz wiki", me personally i am familliar with most (not all i learned new shit TODAY) of the stuff

and itll also help if i screenshot the wiki as advice to some plunger in pz chat

good stuff yall, keep it up

[digital helm]

I try to stick with page width at 1080px (default) for that reason, but I much prefer 100vw

[woven portal]

and that is? sorry, not familliar with web design

looks to me as an engie as 100 volts

[digital helm]

100vw is just 100% of the content space

[woven portal]

ooo

ok ok

100% content thats understood by the user i assume

stuff outside my field is really a lot more involved than i think it is, ive learned that years ago

[digital helm]

I used to be afraid off css, since it's not like any scripting language, but it's surprisingly simple once you get into it

[woven portal]

My work is forcing me to learn c++ and python

so I was thinking of making a lil somerhing for pz for practice

being.paid to work on a pz.mod sounds good to me

i know its lua and java but also i would be the only one being able.to fullfill that role

plus i have a mod idea in mind alr

[digital helm]

we use python all the time now, for both parsing game data and to update wiki with a bot. Really good general scripting language

I've never used C++, but looks similar to java

[woven portal]

ill have a look at the existing bots and systems

i really just learn shit as i go atm

[digital helm]

same tbh

[woven portal]

just barely managed what my managers required of me last time, bless up stack overflow

[digital helm]

There's a bit of set up for a bot https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Bots

[woven portal]

Tried GPT 3.5 but 3.5 is too stupid to actually code

it just makes up shit that looks coherent lol

[digital helm]

never use GPT for CSS or wikiscript it'll consistently lie to you

[woven portal]

4.o probablt actually works but hey im practicint rn

bruh 3.5 Gpt made up some shit that would never work

and then argued about it

anyway dont rely on LLMs to actuallt make anything

[woven portal]

dumber than me somehow

yeh ill just look at how i could help out by either making.the mod i was thinking of.or making a bot

btw, not gonna gatekeep the idea, how come.there still isnt a mod removing tiredness from drinking?

its harder than i thought since it has to either affect a java Medicine fuction (idk why) or have it add energy on use

You arent immediately wanting to pass out after a beer

[digital helm]

any amount of info in modding would be a big help. I don't have time to look into it all
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Modding
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Modding

[languid kayak]

We already have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bags so it could be added here, though ideally it'd be calculated to not to update it manually each time as we do for tooltips. It's just the refreshes to items list is something I've been postpoining 😄

[languid kayak]

I guess it depends widely between editor and non-editors (we get a lot of traffic from mobile, those might be folks not even on PZ discord, just casual player, or regulars trying to check something on phone while in-game), so hard to judge.

Polls aren't enabled on here mind you, and if we'd do one, I wonder what would be the best place 🤔

Plus I guess it's a bit early. I had to spend some time to adjust to Citizen myself, as I'm a long fan of the old MediaWiki skin (monobook/old vector). The width (for tables) is adjustable though. It should be possible to change the default, though it doesn't work? Either I'm doing something wrong, or it requires a new version of skin (which we'll get). Feedback was similar for Vector-2022 in Wikipedia too, I guess it just needs time to iron out 😄

Unfortunately there's no way to easily change the skin without being logged in, though, though at least the Cititzen preferences can be changed without logging.

[languid kayak]

Collapsable TOC would work here 🤔. Not sure it's something Citizen considers? Might post as a feature request if not for things like that

[languid kayak]

We can shave a few bytes by using animated icons (that, or find a CSS/HTML/JS way of doing so) 🤔 The "Av. %" text could be replaced by an icon, shaving a few pixels too

[languid kayak]

While most use desktop (60.5%), the rest users are from smartphone (or tablet/phablet), so It's considerable I guess. Hard to judge 1 to 1, stats are never 100% accurate and some people use both, some just look things up when playing, but the tendency of checking things on mobile is significant enough 🤔.

Also I guess there's a difference between veterans and newcomers, again, I guess B42 will prove the biggest test I guess

[languid kayak]

Occupations actually isn't as popular, but Items and Traits are indeed heavily visited ones 😛

[languid kayak]

I guess we can add button to switch to old look, like Vector 2022 does on Wikipedia, not sure how easy it is to add on Citizen 🤔. Though ideally people would at least get to see the cog for 100wv 😄

[languid kayak]

oh nvm, I see Vail beat me to it 😄

[languid kayak]

That'd be weird 😄 The site notice we had for the longest was the Build 41 project one https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&oldid=184405&useskin=vector

I guess the issue was it was up for so long old timers used so much to it being there that the one with the site change was automatically being ignored 😛

[languid kayak]

Pinging @woven portal for that, but in case something's behind our reach as a skin developers, the team behind skin is really responsive in case we do find anything minor or can construct a good issue report, I did once and it was fixed swiftly 🥳 https://github.com/StarCitizenTools/mediawiki-skins-Citizen/issues/845 – just keep in mind for us to get actual new version it'd require them to put a release and then Kirrus to update to it.

[woven portal]

The last change was already just right! Thx anyway tho

[languid kayak]

(even worse when folks stumble on the Fandom one 😩. At least folks with https://getindie.wiki/ extension can be redirected and have filtered search results

[languid kayak]

yeah, that's how strong fandom's SEO is, a problem for lots of good wikis 😦

[woven portal]

Thankfully, atm the actual wiki is usually first

[languid kayak]

I did some editing for Cyberpunk wiki on fandom, but for that at least I have to have a set of filters for it to be slightly less annoying, I modified this:
https://gist.github.com/Craftplacer/04089c2c666c89e10818124c92d9c65b and disabled some filters that prevented me from editing https://gist.githubusercontent.com/Faalagorn/0d9dbac615fc20ddd7161b3066a1d48f/raw/a0e2f63cbdfdb87ad69d45981e575078041c9ba6/gistfile1.txt

[languid kayak]

I think at 42 we'll probably deep dive for straight for build 42 when it's in iwbums, I kinda would like to have at least history info some pages have, but we'll see how it goes.

Still got some b41 and meta stuff to iron out 😄

[languid kayak]

Well, we only used to link to undeniable 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Useful_links I still am thinking what to do with tha page, it's not really linked anywhere, some tools are useful, some are outdated (I still have to iron out the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Project_Zomboid_Map_Project page!)

[languid kayak]

I should test back animated webp 🤔

[languid kayak]

It was https://projectzomboid.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Valiko2023 Ikip actually broguth them to pzwiki https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Valiko2023 but they stopped contributing later

[languid kayak]

You can install Indie Wiki Buddy extension too, it does redirect to https://breezewiki.com/ optionally (same site as antifandom, just different URL)

[languid kayak]

is cubit a bit rotated compared to tyhe rest?

[languid kayak]

Other than that, cubic or nohalo

[lucid junco]

Maybe

[languid kayak]

nohalo might be better, but it's 2 pixel different so might not be 1 to 1 comparison :D?

[lucid junco]

I had used same interpolation options, aka they are shifted exactly the same way

[languid kayak]

That'd work, yeah

[languid kayak]

haha, literally touching the same thing 😄

[languid kayak]

I do have a blackberry digged somewhere 😉 Also some Android 2 phone a Nintendo DSi and the list goes on 😄 (no, not really gonna test on those ;))

[proud cobalt]

I can test the internet app on wii

[languid kayak]

Opera sadly it's not what it used to :/ Leadership changed, I think there's some folk of the old opera. I used to like the opera mini on J2ME, was a sensible way to browse an internet on a dumbphone back when nothing worked and data was expensive

[lucid junco]

Ill interpolate every logo thats left with nohalo

[languid kayak]

It's 100% view width. There exist 100dvw (100% device view width) too @woven portal

[lucid junco]

Thought it feels like we will have to redo some logos in the future

[languid kayak]

it is, yeah. Once you know one, another is just some syntax really

[languid kayak]

AI used to be good at some basic coding, but does many mistakes in the end

[languid kayak]

Sometimes it's personalized and sometimes fandom comes near top too, but yeah, thankfully the pzwiki was kept non-stop on the same domain from back in 2011 and kept care of

[languid kayak]

I guess it's not as important? Unless you feel like doing so 😄 The logos we have now are 100 times better anyway

Seems gimp lacks some scaling algorithms, which is a shame 😩 https://www.reddit.com/r/GIMP/comments/hu3lh4/gimp_lanczos_and_freedom_of_choice/

The whole GIMP 3 story switching from GTK2 to GTK3 (which is at GTK4 now) is really slow, and long overdue, but maybe after that it will catch up on some new options (they also lack zopfli for PNG and jpegli for JPEG for saving sadly)

[woven portal]

4o is pretty impessive to be fair

[languid kayak]

Hopefully next month though 🤞 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/10373

[woven portal]

havent asked it to make any code yet

hopefully itll spit out more than just stuff that looks like it should work

[lucid junco]

Ill redo the ones that I had accidentally done with None interpolation

The ones that bother me are "bridges"

Or arches

And some glaring ones, like LSU student union and TripleN

Thought it will happen probably far into the future, since Im already running out of free time

[lucid junco]

I hope that Ill be done with all logos on Sunday, if I push it hard enough

[digital helm]

We could consider adding the history section for b42, it'd help with the people playing on different versions. As we've discussed, only haven't because of the massive catch-up we had. We could wait and see how big the changelog is in the first b42 iwbums release

[digital helm]

collapsible TOC would be nice. They already have it for mobile, so maybe something they have planned?

[digital helm]

despite saying "no" to setting as default browser (twice) it still removed my default browser/reset some settings

[proud cobalt]

I wonder how hard (expensive) it would be to feed every patch note ever into gpt4o and ask it for the entire history per item

Would also need fact checking*

[digital helm]

there's still a content limit, although it's much higher now

Can you do that with GPTs? Can you get it to direct to the forum changelog and ask it that way? Is that how GPTs work? 🤔

[proud cobalt]

GPTs or api would be different

I think you can use files for gpts any length

[digital helm]

I know nothing about the API, so probably could work

[proud cobalt]

This is it?
https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/forum/35-pz-updates/

[digital helm]

yeah, that's it

it's missing some of the really old ones, but we have them on the wiki

[proud cobalt]

This might be a menial task i can do at work, can only do tiles when at home

[languid kayak]

Finally got myself to move https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Corpses out of containers 😛

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Corpse_(male) and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Corpse_(female) are stubs now

[woven portal]

4o is really quite impressive tbh

[proud cobalt]

Using a custom gpt

But only with the latest patch notes from nasko

[digital helm]

now that I see it, looks promising

would be good to have date as {{#dateformat:2023-12-05|mdy}} so it uses user preference

[proud cobalt]

Every table would need manual checking, so would add autogenerated with section true?

[digital helm]

yeah, and with "history" as param 1

so it gets added to Category:Articles requiring editor verification (history)

[proud cobalt]

Yep

[digital helm]

btw, we might be able to go without using ll and lcs in the item pages. I've added translations to my item list script, which could be used to generate the item tables https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_list/tr

[woven portal]

arent we at 41 78 16?

[languid kayak]

If we go with history, we should probably analyze the script and lua files, if we ever go to that, I should have a few versions ready, the other can be downloaded from Steam as an old version

[proud cobalt]

The change was in .15

[woven portal]

ah ok

[digital helm]

yeah, a lot of the time single items or minor stuff gets skipped over, or bundled into a general change, rather than specifying each affected item

What Calvy's looking at would be a nice and much quicker start

[digital helm]

@robust latch btw in case you want to translate the note. Just leave the autogenerated stuff untouched, I'll fix the headings

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm You're insane for adding these https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version_history

[digital helm]

I didn't add them all 😄 I only started adding b39, I just cleaned them all up, then added any missing ones

[proud cobalt]

Its still alot of them

In case anyone wants this its all of the version history pages in one document

[digital helm]

didn't realise it was actually quite a few https://web.archive.org/web/20181113123638/https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Version_history

[proud cobalt]

Yeah it is 😆

https://puu.sh/K83QY.png

Classic

[robust latch]

This is nice but it doesnt have Turkish charachters like; ı,ğ,ş,İ, . Also the in-game translations are severely out-of-date ~ outright bad. Which is mostly fixed in local files, and ready to be deployed in B42.

[digital helm]

It was this from 2013 until mid 2018

[proud cobalt]

Technically true still!

At least its accurate

[digital helm]

I've just taken it from here https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/TR/ItemName_TR.txt are they at least correct based on that? I can simply rerun it when they're updated

[proud cobalt]

Hmm im skeptical on this gpt. It will likely confuse items such as
Hammer, Stone hammer, etc

[digital helm]

hmm.. I had a look at a wiki gpt once, and the recipes were just wrong, all the time

[proud cobalt]

What's wiki gpt?

[digital helm]

not really "wiki", but survival guides for pz

[proud cobalt]

Play with this
https://chatgpt.com/g/g-EDBddGLZF-pz-history

This is the one im working on making rn

[robust latch]

They suffice. I guess just as you said a rerun after b42 hits can be made, thank you for adding this btw.

[proud cobalt]

No offense to turkish but this one sounds like an english person trying to sound turkish

[robust latch]

Just to reiterate, the file has correct letters, but not the current new page

[proud cobalt]

Make sure you parse the file with utf-8 @digital helm

[digital helm]

it likes to make stuff up, just to fit my question. One of those things that I hate about gpt

[robust latch]

Yeah, invented&technological stuff dont really have a uniqie name so to speak

[proud cobalt]

Yeah not good

[digital helm]

No problem. I'll be doing more with it for updating tables on the item pages, as they'll be a pain to update, even for english

[digital helm]

utf-8 wasn't working (no idea why), so I had to detect the encoding then use that. But it outputs in utf-8

[proud cobalt]

Oh that's really odd, it's one of the things that always works for me, I force utf8 for all my python scripts

Because the wiki has Russian page names if I don't it will shit itself

[robust latch]

I think its ANSI?

[proud cobalt]

ANSI is a subset of utf8

Utf8 supports all Unicode characters

[robust latch]

I see

[digital helm]

yeah, I have no idea... I used the chardet library which reads the file and picks the best fit encoding. So there's the concern that it picked the wrong encoding, but seems to be working fine so far https://chardet.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html

[languid kayak]

it's not a subset, a different encoding. Unforuantaly zomboid uses all weird encoding instead of just UTF-8 :/ https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Translations

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:HitVids_logo.png
@digital helm @languid kayak
What do we do with hit vids

Someone had remade the logo already

[languid kayak]

since it was recreated and not straight? I guess it can stay? That's the least terrible logo out there 😄

Unless you are really dedicated in re-recreating it 😛

as straigetning this one wopuld just lower the quality

[lucid junco]

I thought about doing it just this once, but since Im already a bit short on time - Id leave it for now

[digital helm]

oh cool, thank you. Maybe I'll add a dict for that instead

[proud cobalt]

Maybe subset is the wrong word, but everything in ANSI is supported by utf8

[proud cobalt]

I wonder if it forces ascii then outputs to utf8

[digital helm]

the encoding it picked for english was ascii, but I force output to utf8

[proud cobalt]

Doesn't make sense to me that they don't use utf 8 for all languages. I'm sure there's some reason

[proud cobalt]

Probably doing the same with Turkish then 🤔

I wonder how it chooses

import urllib.request
from chardet.universaldetector import UniversalDetector

usock = urllib.request.urlopen('http://yahoo.co.jp/')
detector = UniversalDetector()
for line in usock.readlines():
    detector.feed(line)
    if detector.done: break
detector.close()
usock.close()
print(detector.result)
{'encoding': 'EUC-JP', 'confidence': 0.99} ```

[digital helm]

for turkish it picked ISO-8859-1

[proud cobalt]

It doesn't support Turkish I believe

It's Latin-1 right?

8859-9

Would be Latin 5

[digital helm]

pz uses cp1254

so I'm going to just check the language code and use the appropriate encoding from here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Translations#Languages

[languid kayak]

Some technical debt of not usnit UTF8 back then, the game had translation really early on. I really hope it'll be improved one day, rtl languages like Arabic can't be really supported right now too, though some folks tried to jury-rig something in #translations

[serene sage]

what even is the purpose of leaving a map that you have marked in a gas station

[lucid junco]

idk 4x

[serene sage]

wow

the wifi in this office is crap

[lucid junco]

It doesn't make any sense, apart from some stupid teens drawing on maps

Not the best way to hide your shelter

Nor to inform someone of where are you heading

"Oh yes, I want my sister to know where my safehouse is in Louisville, thats why Ill go out of my way and leave a map with a note in a Riverside gas station"

The only one annotated map that does make sense is a music fest one

Where clearly a bunch of teens wrote their thoughts about music fest attendants and where their tent is

[serene sage]

me heading to his safehouse to steal his katana

[thin cloud]

Tag yourself, I'm Corpse (Male)

[languid kayak]

@proud cobalt are you planning on keeping these categories or removing them eventually?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_editor_verification
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Articles_requiring_editor_verification_(media)

Asking since I cleaned up https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance and added __EXPECTUNUSEDCATEGORY__ to all the ones that are expected to be kept when 0.

In the first one, you explicitly marked it "This is mostly a temporary category for User:Calvy.", the second one not

[robust latch]

Media category must remain, until no recorded media is left to edit

[languid kayak]

yeah, I mean what happens after it reaches 0 😄

Will it stay for future use or be removed

[languid kayak]

Updated https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Images with that I had on my user page; not sure how useful it is, especially the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Images#Advanced_compression_techniques especially the AVIF and JPEG-XL secions which are irreleavant – if it's too bloated, let me know, I'll remove it and keep it in my page instead

[robust latch]

We remove it

[proud cobalt]

It was planned to be temporary but then we made the autogenerated mbox. I didn't make the media one That was Ksilem for the VHS tapes. I say keep the base one but remove the variants when they're done

[languid kayak]

Actually, gonna add __EXPECTUNUSEDCATEGORY__ to both because why not? Can remove it at any point anyway. Hope you don't mind removing you while at it? I guess anyone can participate now that it has become a proper category 😛

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Articles_requiring_editor_verification&diff=390795&oldid=333925

[proud cobalt]

Yeah go for it lol. Not just for me anymore

[languid kayak]

I did some cleanups on my user page btw, @proud cobalt not sure if you find anything useful in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn/Unused_tiles ? It was made back in 2021 before Louisville was added but tiles were there.

That might be handy for see alsos too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn/Furniture_styles – so far keeping it but not gonna go back to finish it anytime soon 😄

Funny how some of the tile names from here your bot added:
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Fancy_Counter&action=edit&redlink=1
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Fancy_Floating_Counter&action=edit&redlink=1

This one seems to be created https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Large_Light_Oak_Table

The rest are names that were probably unused/used in old versions (the bushes are ??? now).

[proud cobalt]

I don't think we'll use any of these at least right now, they're not moveables and aren't that important to the player

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I think the non-movable ones aren't really important. Some will be after b42 (ATMs, machinery), but hard to cherry-pick them currently and where to cross the line (that was my original motivation, but then no patches to movables happened since :P)

[languid kayak]

I wonder if it's technically possible to get tile count used in the map, or at least whether the tile is placed on given map. Back then I used to just look around PZmap for plausible locations, but I guess it should be possible to export list of tiles to a spreadsheet I guess? After all that's how PZmap is exported kinda (assembling chunks from separate tiles and then stiching them up).

Would be interesting to have them into "distribution" of some kinds. Some food for thought for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture if anyone wants to consider this 😛

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm could we add a link to item list/tile list to the end of your scripts for navigation

[proud cobalt]

Thoughts on adding this to B42 prep? To help track what automated tasks have been done for the current build?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox2

@digital helm

[digital helm]

as in to link between the 2 pages?

[digital helm]

Yes, I think that'd be good!

A more permanent spot would be good. But I think the project will do for now

[proud cobalt]

Yes just

*[[Pzwiki:Item list]] ```

For the lack of a Navbox

[proud cobalt]

I was thinking a specific bot tasks page like wiki tasks a day or two ago. What would you think about that? And @languid kayak

Or it could go at the bottom of wiki tasks

[digital helm]

I think that'd be good. Would allow us to categorise the bot tasks a bit better too

[proud cobalt]

I'll put it in the project page for now, that'll be the main thing driving the need for them to be run

[serene sage]

decided to compile some interesting and useless PZ tidbits (that could be added to the wiki) into a video:
https://youtu.be/dHnYB0P_2ic

[languid kayak]

the LV radio part (the one that is on preview for you too :D) seems interesting, especially if it's intentional (which seems it is?)

[serene sage]

it seems like it is since the player going to Louisville early ruins the lore

since Louisville doesn’t fall until the 14th, the news broadcasts say that LV is still safe before then

obviously there’s no npcs other than the zeds so it’s just plain wrong

so they nuke all the tv and radio channels with lore so that it makes it seem as if LV was overrun much earlier

that way they save the lore and immersion of the game

Life and Living still runs fine though, since it doesn’t have any lore about the infection

[languid kayak]

That might be an interesting bit for project lore @robust latch if you ever want to include it somewhere

[languid kayak]

yeah, seems to be a stop gap until after a proper treatment of NPC is added. Interesting if it'll go that route, makes sense for LV to be walled that way, seeing a non-overrun area was ak ind of wet dream of some 😄 (though probably it won't be 1 to 1 as playing before infection, what those player mostly are after)

[languid kayak]

Life and Living could actually go on almost forever since it's all sheduled lol (though IRL that wouldn't probably work, as people would have to oversee it)

[serene sage]

the devs have stated they don’t want to do pre infection stuff (so technically uninfected LV is pre-infection) so maybe the Knox Event border would be more guarded than it is right now

maybe a scripted event on July 14

watch the camp get overrun

that would be the signal for when LV can be entered

this also makes me think of the far future when npcs arrive

the devs always talk about meeting npcs “in the wild”

but would it be possible that they would let us spawn with some family members or friends? seems cool to have some relatives to save/sacrifice

[languid kayak]

btw @serene sage since you have DMs disabled and it's not really anything secret;

Ksilem sent me the monthly summary for the project lore for this month, leaving a place for you to say something about the randomized story work if you want to add, not sure if he asked you about it but seems I think he's not online so if you want to add it, you can do it now, or we can add it afterwards 🙂

[lucid junco]

Id also nuke LV since its ohio

Thoough its debatable if LV fell on july 14th

Since not even the LV border had fallen untill july 15th

I think July 16th is a same assumption of the "Fall of LV" date

Since thats when military had blown up the bridges

And "Majority of Louisville's population now ill with the Knox sickness. Thousands 'turning' every hour. Hospitals overrun."

Though some stations within the LV are airing up until around july 22nd

Someone has to be there, in the station

Or at least July 17th, since thats when KnoxTalk taps out with host saying about it

[languid kayak]

Alright, <@&1205891296565268520>s, here's the monthly summary of May., Boy, it was a lot. Also, can't believe it's already a year of summarizing it each month consecutively, here's to another year 🍻! https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:News#May_2024

[lucid junco]

[rancid tangle]

[lucid junco]

I was too late

[languid kayak]

you noticed it on wiki shortly before I posted it here :P?

[sullen atlas]

[lucid junco]

I meant that I wasnt able to finish all logos in time

[languid kayak]

you will make headlines next month ⭐!

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/yippee-happy-yippee-creature-yippee-meme-yippee-gif-gif-1489386840712152603

Best day of the month

Actually second to monthoid 😆

[languid kayak]

I find the timing to be good 😄 Giving few days to cool off after it 😄

[lucid junco]

500 hours in pz

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[proud cobalt]

Dont worry Faal kicks my ass in hours too 😄

^His hours

[languid kayak]

Calvy was quicker than my Steam 😄

[proud cobalt]

Im only just ahead of you

[lucid junco]

I need 18 more hours for it to be number one hourwise

[languid kayak]

(doesn't matter a lot of it is sitting in debug 🤫)

[proud cobalt]

It may have been steam 🤔

PZ has a long way to beat my gmod

[lucid junco]

At least 50 hours of mine are staring at the debug map

[frail fossil]

flexing playtime, are we? let me get in on the shaboingery

[languid kayak]

I have friends with more hours than me though 😄 over 9000 (literally), 7000+, 6000+ 5000+, 4000+ and 2500+

Though I made it in top100 worldwide in https://steamladder.com/ladder/playtime/108600/ 🤔 (does not include all the profiles, just the one that were polled)

[crude ginkgo]

Snack

[proud cobalt]

Australian in the top 30 ill take that

https://tenor.com/view/hey-gif-20202375

[spice pendant]

wait up so like is build 42 unstable build out or smth

[languid kayak]

nah, it's just the wiki project being set

for all we know from Thurstoids that are posted monthly on the zomboid website on occasional tweet or bit of info

[lucid junco]

Its actually something that is incoded within tv's and radios themself

Nothing is changed within the script

[spice pendant]

ah alright, thank you

waiting for b42 be like

[lucid junco]

And radio is intact

[spice pendant]

not complaining tho, they're doing a fantastic job with stuff ive seen on the steam page

[lucid junco]

Life and living is intact

@languid kayak Should we add in ads as quotes?

Something like this

[languid kayak]

sure, why not!

[languid kayak]

Gonna go now, but leaving food for thought for @proud cobalt https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_tiles and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles – was considering renaming them to movables, that or going back to furniture it once was which I guess may not be terrible given it's an in-game category? Would require some changes to links over the place, but now we basically cover only movables I guess it's sane? No point in covering every time actually.

Just leaving it here so it won't be forgotten, pinging @digital helm for though too as I was the one originally wanted to remove it into tiles and added some non-movable ones 😄 (can stuck them elsewhere though)

[lucid junco]

@naive imp @digital helm (And others) Your thoughts?

[naive imp]

Gimme a sec

[lucid junco]

"You've got mail"

Idk how to see it

[digital helm]

I think this is fine. I'm sure we've done it elsewhere. It is also mentioned in the transcripts section, so I'd probably remove that, unless there's more info beyond just the transcript.

[digital helm]

click last changes. It was probably Faal updating the awards

yeah, looks like Faal updated and moved it to your user page. You can do what you want with it. Move it, or remove it. It's up to you.

[lucid junco]

This transcript?

[digital helm]

yeah

[lucid junco]

Yeah, Id have done it

Though it formatted a bit differently

With "..."

like in game

I had removed the dots, but idk if it makes Advertisement section still redundant or not

[robust latch]

Yeah this quote think is getting somewhat deprecated with the arrival of transcript template&section. My proposion was to keep the transcript section and trim down the quote, or we can completely remove quote, thats also an option.

One way to approach quote could (maybe) be, in the quote, only mentioning : Pharmahug: your health... ... your store.

I am not %100 sure though, we need to decide this together

[digital helm]

yeah I like this. Only include the most relevant part. Such as the quote in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Knox_Event

[robust latch]

This one is a good example yes

[lucid junco]

Like a slogan?

That can work

[digital helm]

Yeah. Should also consider how this will look on mobile, a big block of text like that at the top may be annoying.

[robust latch]

Yeah like a slogan

[digital helm]

so shortened would be good

[lucid junco]

It might be a bit difficult(and up for a debate) what part of an advert can be used as a slogan

But Im still up for it

And it can be used with those, that dont have an advert

"Ready, Aim, Hire!" as an example

[digital helm]

I'm happy with furniture 😏 #pzwiki_editing message (prepare to get your time machine)

I guess the only problem with furniture is things like floor tiles. And are walls/windows/doors furniture? So may be some semantic issues
I would like to eventually add a tree page (been adding links to it for years). Also one for each type of environment floor that can be picked up with a sack (dirt, gravel, sand), or any other that has something special about them (like grass and water)
@proud cobalt

[lucid junco]

What do we do with Kentucky Rail?

Should I include both of them, or only the Kentucky Rail?

(this is how it is in game)

[digital helm]

eh, it's a bit of best guess. We could also add a spot in the infobox for it if that is better than using quote

[digital helm]

I think "Kentucky Rail" for the logo, but the other in the gallery

I read it as "Kentucky Rail - Freight & Logistics"

[lucid junco]

Aight

What bout Park center?

It was mistakenly(at least I hope so) used as a LV Central Park logo

[digital helm]

you mean center park 😏

[digital helm]

What is the page?

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville_Central_Park

I laughed hard when saw it

It doesnt make any fucking sense

[digital helm]

I'd just have it in gallery, as it's not a logo for the entire park, just that one tiny building https://map.projectzomboid.com/#13237x2681

[lucid junco]

It is a logo FOR THE PARK CENTER

[digital helm]

it's a generic logo, like "Information Center"

[lucid junco]

How can someone even accidentally find this in the game files, not double checking it, not looking at the map, not using logic, and arrange it as "Center Park"

[lucid junco]

Not as generic

Since there is only one park in the game

So its a unique generic

[distant osprey]

Thanks for mentioning me in the news even if I didn't contribute a lot yet 🥰

[lucid junco]

Where will WP logo go?

Its this one

[digital helm]

We appreciate every edit! And you've already done a lot for the French-side of the wiki

[digital helm]

gallery? we already have this one there https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:West_Point_Caboose_Car.png
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/West_Point#Gallery

[lucid junco]

I mean as a separate image or as a replacement

[digital helm]

separate image

if you add it at all

[lucid junco]

Straightened or as is?

[digital helm]

know if it can be picked up? If not, I'd say straightened

@naive imp for input

[lucid junco]

It cant

[digital helm]

(we don't talk about the caboose)

[lucid junco]

Since its spraypainted

[digital helm]

I'd go with straightened then

[lucid junco]

329/423

[digital helm]

I forgot. I added some some stuff to the wiki news for this month https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=PZwiki%3ANews&type=revision&diff=390981&oldid=390889
Most importantly:

A big thank you to everyone that has helped with this project, and all the other projects, as we all frantically prepare for build 42 throughout the entire wiki.

[languid kayak]

was me cleaning some old awards :D. Viewing your talkbpage should mark it too

[lucid junco]

Stop stealing my job

[languid kayak]

slogans might be also hidden in other bits, such as clothing (esp. in future)

[lucid junco]

As an example

Faalagorn is a time traveler confirmed

[languid kayak]

I wouldn't be myself without changing my mind halfway 😄 (blame Calvy adding movables :P)

[digital helm]

you've seen my edits over the years. I've gone back and forth several times!

only difference now is that I can ask if it's a dumb idea first 😄

[languid kayak]

windows, doors etc are constuxtion as part of scc so that solves part ofproblem. Good point with tiles though rags could pass as furniture...

[languid kayak]

I'd try to assemble them, but template supports multiple images too, else there's gallery

[digital helm]

only supports one logo though. The building (image) is multiple

[languid kayak]

yeah, I marked the original for removal, good to be done with it

[languid kayak]

I try to mention everyone, but you did considerable amount :). Lot of folks do just one contrib every now and then (which I also value)

[lucid junco]

(assembled)

[languid kayak]

thanks, wasn't sure about it. I do wqnt to utilize multiimage functionality, I have two sandoxes lying around. Was actually thinkig of mentioning it in the summary

[digital helm]

It'd be simple enough to increase it. It's just that I didn't foresee the need to have multiple logos 😄

[lucid junco]

Should we rename it then?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Kentucky_Rail

[digital helm]

honestly, I think Kentucky Rail is fine

@naive imp has had good judgement on this

[naive imp]

I don't see the point in it tbh but if you do add it in I'd say straighten it

[naive imp]

I'd say just leave it as Kentucky Rail. I don't see the point in adding the freight and logistics logo, I think it's redundant, but if you wanna add it I'd say straighten it first

@digital helm @languid kayak I kinda disagree with the absolutist nature we're taking with tiles. I don't see how every single tile, no matter how insignificant it is, has to be documented.

"This is a rock. It has no use."

Is how some can be construed. I think it's bloat but maybe there's a bigger picture I'm missing?

[serene sage]

mornin' people

looks like I missed a lot

[lucid junco]

What bout "Office" clones?

There are 2 "Office" buildings in Central L

[serene sage]

he didn't ask me, but sure I'll put in something for the monthly summary

maybe I should enable DMs or something

[languid kayak]

yeah, my feeling nowadays too. Back when I added it documenting it on table sounded sane, especially as patches/changes were common. Now when everything has a page, I'd say movables alone are fine and just add new as they are added, so I'm backing out of it as well slowly (also was assembling tiles that weren't available in-game back then). And new tiles are added nowadays with each major patch.

[languid kayak]

you can add me as friend if you want too

[serene sage]

by that point LV is pretty much lost so ehhh

particularly on LBMW, the final emergency broadcast can very likely originate from outside Kentucky, as in 1993 the EBS system had a type of alert called an Emergency Action Notification that would automatically run on every operating radio station in the US if the government requested it

[lucid junco]

As a sidenote, channel transcript is fucked up

It has wrong dates

Misses adverts

[serene sage]

slightly more than you, though I only got the game like four months ago

embarrassingly I have not lasted more than two months in-game yet

there's been an odd glitch with my hours played though

when the game launches my hours played goes down by ten or so hours

then when I quit the game it goes back

[lucid junco]

And has wrong dates

[serene sage]

sure sure, I'll add you now

[lucid junco]

Or uses confusing "Days"

[serene sage]

"day 0" wtf

[lucid junco]

My favourite

When on July 9th, not even a day into the game, Pastor dies and zomboids all over the radio

[serene sage]

rip pastor

dead from zomboids before they even come to LV

[lucid junco]

Or Jonas hijacks LBMW radio and uses to shit in your ears about infection even before the game started