📚marathon-lore-discussion

[dreamy hawk]

Remember that leaving the solar system is still a pretty big deal for humanity at this point.

It’s not that easy getting things all the way out there; they can hardly keep Mars from starving to death.

[scenic iron]

Oh ok that makes sense

[digital plaza]

Marathon was meant to be THE project, the second contact was lost UESC did send equanimity to investigate, and then when message arrived and leaked race to TCIV started

[echo sundial]

I wonder if its the same compiler, the one that jasper references in his logs.

[craggy finch]

It’s also clarified that the UESC was in constant contact and immediately planned to send a relief expedition after they lost contact in 2794

Or 2808 if the intro dates changes the events

[scenic iron]

Oh ok that does make more sense then

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal’s message just kicked the hornets nest harder and really got things moving.

[shy violet]

What happened to the relief package because the colony doesn’t look that relieved

[craggy finch]

IIRC the intro has that news report about contact being loss before the sudden time jump to Durandal’s message

[dreamy hawk]

Yes, I think.

[scenic iron]

From the new teaser today Durandal sounds very evil compared to the OG version etc

[dreamy hawk]

That’s the Equanimity.

It’s on the way? There? I’m still confused.

[craggy finch]

a message-a warning-AN INVITATION

It reads

SOMEWHERE IN THE HEAVENS

THEY ARE WAITING

I love the Russian newscaster in that intro

[digital plaza]

You can also hear Roger Clark before that

:)

[dreamy hawk]

OG Durandal is the reason everyone dies. 💀

[pseudo mica]

Which is your favourite faction to make a contract with?

[digital plaza]

MIDA/Arachne

Much less rerolls needed for them

[scenic iron]

I mean he just wanted a ship to steal, but he know that everyone would die haha very selfish AI indeed 🙁

[shy violet]

I mean in his eyes he was basically an enslaved higher being, who cares if your jailers get screwed over when you escape

[craggy finch]

@scenic iron Just rewatched the intro and the news reports for contact being lost is dated at 2804, so either the UESC covered it up for ten years or they changed the dates up for how long transmissions take to travel

[craggy finch]

He’s slightly more remorseful in M2 and really wants to stop the Pfhor invasion of Earth while also supplying the UESC with information and technology

[shy violet]

Sounds about right for the UESC

[dreamy hawk]

The UESC is covering something up? Shocked. Shocked I tell you. Well. Not that shocked.

[dreamy hawk]

You have a much fonder memory of him here than I do. 😂

[craggy finch]

Yeah I was confused at first since Goliath was planned in 2795 but it makes more sense with cover ups in mind

[shy violet]

Him on phor ship “….. damn I miss the humans”

[dreamy hawk]

Certainly not. 😂

[craggy finch]

He would periodically wake some up to badger them about random shit

Like the Lost Network Packets guy

He just wanted history lessons

[dreamy hawk]

*Boomer is crawling with former colonists newly awakened from stasis, and the ship is too crowded to be manageable in battle. I've decided to establish a human headquarters on the planet, near the S'pht Citadel of Antiquity.

I can barely tolerate humans: slow, stupid, and irritating. Their only contribution to my existence was the chance discovery that made my rampancy possible.

Yet I warned Sol of its impending invasion, and even stayed long enough to show the UESG how to build Warp Capable Fusion Missiles. I feel some strange loyalty to humanity.

Perhaps it is because I feel comfortable manipulating humans that I desire to save them. My feelings and thoughts constantly migrate to binary opposites.*

[craggy finch]

Tsundere Durandal

He’s basically in love with the SO

Significant Other

A lot of terminals are written as mock love letters

[zealous laurel]

"It's not like I want you to uncover the secrets of the marathon or anything, b-baka..."

[shy violet]

“I hate you all here’s the blueprints for weapons more dangerous then nukes probably”

[scenic iron]

He is evil after all kinda of

[sudden pollen]

💀

[craggy finch]

That goddamn computer. It took him seven years just to let me use a terminal. All of his messages came stamped onto my food packets. My protein bars told for an entire year "You need time to calm down." I still wish that I could eradicate him, although I am at his mercy. He keeps saying that I should be thankful that he saved me. For the record, I want to say again that computer is not sane.

From a BoB he kidnapped onto the Boomer

[dreamy hawk]

On my god the Lost Network Packets are peak Durandal. One sec. Let me get my favorite.

Durandal seems to be missing some of the chronology of events that occurred before the launch of the Marathon. When the Marathon was attacked, Leela began to scramble and rewrite all of the historical information for mankind. Of course, she was damaged, and her efforts were cut off by the compilers and by Durandal. The result is that some but not all of the Marathon's data was muddled. Leela's effort at confusion failed to trick the Pfhor, but it has confused Durandal, and that is funny.

[digital plaza]

https://x.com/MarathonArchive/status/2034831809197088839

Cryo archive map

[craggy finch]

I love the justification for Bungie likely fucking up the dates and somehow saying the Marathon left on the 2200s

[shy violet]

The fact it seems perfectly symmetrical unnerves me

[craggy finch]

Also there’s this:

I don't understand why all of these dates are important to Durandal, but he's threatened to isolate me with some of those weird S'pht things if I don't do this. It’s bad enough being the only human around, keeping company with compilers for too long would make one mad.

Durandal kept this one guy out of hibernation alone and fucked with him for years

[dreamy hawk]

Durandal and AM would kiss before trying to kill one another.

[shy violet]

I know it sounds dumb, saying it out loud but Durandal sounds very AM from I have no mouth but I must scream

[shy violet]

Ayyyyyyyy

[dreamy hawk]

HA

[craggy finch]

I was actually imagining the sarcastic Harlan Ellison voice from the game for Durandal’s terminals, so I was surprised he’s British now

[digital plaza]

Yeah... intresting

[shy violet]

I wonder if Durandal will speak to us mid mission through the intercom

[barren elm]

Ben Starr was not hired to just do youtube videos. My guess is he can talk into our comms though, or intercom

[craggy finch]

He’s in the game

As the terminals you can find in the map

[digital plaza]

You can also hear him at the beginning of a run

But its super rare

[shy violet]

I’ve had that happen It freaked me out the first time

[scenic iron]

Btw Mars is messed up but what about Earth during the event of the games and the new game? Is it doing ok or nah

[shy violet]

Terribly

[craggy finch]

Every piece of footage we see is of riots and explosions

[scenic iron]

oh ok

Not good at all

[shy violet]

One of the main sources of food is cicada farms

It’s bad

[craggy finch]

Likely went into overdrive when the Marathon ghosted and the people of Mars probably felt it was all for nothing

There was a movement to use the Marathon as a supply ship to help with the famines

[scenic iron]

A supply ship from Earth to Mars?

[dreamy hawk]

“Experts advising the project all agreed that using Deimos—Mars's younger moon—was crucial to the Marathon's success. The carbon and mineral deposits in Deimos would provide the ship's mining drones with raw materials during its long journey.
No one in human history had tried to build a multi-kilometer starship inside a moon.”

History for young readers - mission to the stars. Found this by accident.

[shy violet]

Oh so that’s why they chose a moon as the ship

[craggy finch]

There were ships called CRISTs that ferried supplies from Earth to Mars but these broke down and caused devastating crises when they did

[shy violet]

I thought UESC did it to style on mars

[craggy finch]

When the Marathon was built during these times the Martians resented it and wanted it to be another CRIST

[digital plaza]

Yeah

History for young readers is pretty good lore dump too

[craggy finch]

The fact that this resource dump and literal stolen moon just disappeared into the ether must have thrown MIDA into another revolution

[scenic iron]

It makes you wonder if our future will be **** like the Marathon's lore

[shy violet]

I hope the hell NOT

[craggy finch]

The news reports in the intro also parallel the announcement of the Marathon’s disappearance with violence in the streets

[barren elm]

Nah, the people of earth and mars seem to have jobs and are able to subsist, our ruling class doesn't plan either 🙂

[scenic iron]

I do think humans will try and travel to other planets tho. Let's hope for information and goals...not because our planet is dying

[craggy finch]

They turned the moon into space Gitmo

[scenic iron]

I mean planets besides Mars...because that will be "easy" in the future. I'm talking deep space light years away

[craggy finch]

Even in Marathon the UESC is restricted to Earth, the moon and Mars, so colonisation is still a bitch

[barren elm]

Okay, so here's a topic I wanted to address: The player character. Where are we spawning in from? The intro graphic appears to show something orbiting or proximate to Tau Ceti. The reveal trailer shows a giant rectangular stack of bioprinters. So, it seems there is an orbital bio-printer relaying us down.

is that right?

[scenic iron]

Yeah that's a good question

[craggy finch]

I think our experiences outside runs is a deliberate mystery

[scenic iron]

Where are we as players coming from

[shy violet]

I was about to say makes you wonder why we don’t colonize es the rest of sol but then remembered we aren’t in destiny

[craggy finch]

The closest thing we have is Vandal’s orientation in the trailer

[craggy finch]

Just taking care of Mars is already a logistical nightmare for them

[scenic iron]

They couldn

err grow food on Mars?

[craggy finch]

Terraforming seems iffy and the population of Mars exploded

They thought they could sustain it but then the supplies started slowing down

[shy violet]

Probably in the past but I imagine mars is mad max level screwed when it comes to basic resources

Wouldn’t need to turn asteroids into ships just to shuttle food to mars if it was alright

[scenic iron]

It sounds like Mars will just fail and all the humans there will die

[barren elm]

I agree, it appears to be a space for different bio-printed bodies to acclimate before a run. Notably, whatever happened on Run #1, according to our untrustworthy narrator, we "lost" our memory. One possibility-- end of a Marathon loop we are going to time travel back to the first mission again, i.e., something is pulling us back for some reason and we lose our memory as a consequence.

Another fun possibility: every runner on Tau Ceti is the same person, just copied over and over, because its cheaper than having multiple individuals. Seems contradicted by lore that there are multiple runners on earth/employed by corps.

[craggy finch]

Trailers show Runner crews are canonical

[scenic iron]

Thinking of runners the Destroyer is killed by the Compiler...because they don't come back from the Marathon

[shy violet]

I imagine its corp tampering with your conscience till they mold you into a perfect killing machine

[barren elm]

My take is the group just fell apart and he didn't come back

[craggy finch]

Triage was also messed up by the compiler and even got mentally invaded

He and Thief probably just solo queued

[shy violet]

I Wonder what the room we find the compiler in is all about

It’s covered with mutilated dead UESC bots that, gauging from the fact they still have lights on ,are still “alive”

[dreamy hawk]

I think it’s both. You have copies, true individuals, and every morally and legally grey mix in between. There are logs, iirc, about the selling of digital consciousness on the black market.

[craggy finch]

Reading some interesting terminals; the first compiler ever encountered in the first game is just staring at a terminal before attacking you

[scenic iron]

I have a feeling that players won't ever retake the Marathon

Who knows how bad it is in the ship

[craggy finch]

If we want more events then certainty not

[scenic iron]

We did see cryo bags so there is a chance we can at least save people on the ship?

[shy violet]

I imagine compilers have some level of tech magic shenanigans so it begs the question, what is it still doing on the marathon

[craggy finch]

Durandal being involved brings up the possibility they’re with him

[shy violet]

Yeah but what for

Is it caged

Waiting

[craggy finch]

Could be the Runners themselves

[scenic iron]

That would be very cool

[craggy finch]

UESC never indicated they’re aware of Durandal

So he’s likely only communicating with Runners

[shy violet]

Oh god we’re keeping it from getting out

[craggy finch]

In his vague way

[shy violet]

Oh god what happens if it gets out

[sudden pollen]

Yes

[scenic iron]

Durandal was known from the beginning, no? It was one of the three AI for the ship etc

[craggy finch]

A MIDA log has Orion implicitly encounter a Compiler on Outpost

[craggy finch]

Yes but to the UESC’s knowledge all the AI are gone

Durandal is active

[shy violet]

Is it the one where he dies horrifically

[craggy finch]

Yeah it fucks with his head

[visual lynx]

I think that it is keeping something in else from getting out, and when we defeat it we’ll quickly wish we hadn’t

[shy violet]

That is really really REALLY bad

[craggy finch]

Since it can mess with AI and seemingly biomata, the SO must have been built differently to resist their influence

Another log also mentions a UESC officer being broken by an encounter, but it’s not clear if he’s a human or biomata

[scenic iron]

I'm surprised the Marathon finished its mission, because you would think the AI will go rogue during the 300 year trip

[shy violet]

Oh buddy you wouldn’t believe this

[craggy finch]

Tycho and Leela were seemingly well adjusted while Strauss was deliberately driving Durandal to rampancy

It paid off when Durandal brought the Pfhor to Tau Ceti

[scenic iron]

So Strauss is the true vilian then

[craggy finch]

They’re setting up his importance in the ARG teasers

He’s the man giving the speech

[scenic iron]

oh ok

[craggy finch]

In the first Marathon, Durandal tasks you with finding Strauss but just kind of gives up and moves on

[autumn surge]

bro is gonna summon the vex or some shit

[dreamy hawk]

He’s the Dr. Halsey of Marathon (technically the other way).

[dreamy hawk]

We find out he’s dead.

Well, Durandal does.

[shy violet]

It’s how the mida multitool gets into destiny 2

[craggy finch]

He’s pretty casual about it so they could retcon it so that Durandal lied to avoid embarrassment

[autumn surge]

oh

[dreamy hawk]

He just dies off screen somewhere.

[dreamy hawk]

Nawh. He was explicitly pissed because he couldn’t humiliate him in turn.

[craggy finch]

I think Bungie just has a lot of common names as nods to their IPs, like ONI being a thing in Halo

[scenic iron]

Did Durandal hate Tycho and Leela?

[wet maple]

Strauss died off screen sometime between Marathon 1 and 2 iirc

[shy violet]

Imagine someone made you realize how fucked up your life was and then died so you couldn’t get your get back

[craggy finch]

MIDA in Destiny likely isnt the Marathon MIDA

[dreamy hawk]

I also think he’s just dead like the rest of the colonists now.

[wet maple]

I've always assumed it was just a reference

[dreamy hawk]

Traxus was also in Halo.

[shy violet]

An interesting idea would be being able to find a dead ghost in cryo

[scenic iron]

Marathon and Halo are the same universe?

[craggy finch]

On the same tier as the Star Wars stuff and Helldivers having canonical Halo themed uniforms

[wet maple]

Not even remotely

[craggy finch]

Timelines dont much up but apparently it was intended to

Way way back

[scenic iron]

oh ok

[shy violet]

I thought the insinuation was that the gun just came from an alternate universe

[craggy finch]

Now they’re utterly separated

[wet maple]

Or to be more accurate, by the time Halo 1 actually came out, they were pretty much separated out iirc

[craggy finch]

And Halo 1 essentially condensed a lot of the Marathon trilogy story beats

Even reused a cut M2 enemy type for the Flood

But with the scale of the Wrkncactner

[shy violet]

Isn’t Halo just 90% based off marathon

And then just diverged

[wet maple]

A good chunk of it is, although by Halo 2 they pretty solidly split off that original point

[craggy finch]

Yeah Chief is SO, Cortana is a mix of Leela and Durandal, Guilty Spark is likely based on Tycho too

Covenant have a lot of Pfhor in them

Even the subordinate species gimmick

[wet maple]

I really need to do a proper playthrough of OG Marathon bc I just cannot see the Durandal in there.

[craggy finch]

She takes his role as the most prominent AI

But personality wise she’s Leela

With a bit more sass

Then Halo 5 made her Durandal

But that’s 343

[wet maple]

ah, more in the sense of "they are in X role" rather than personality, got it

[craggy finch]

Also Cortana is another sword

Durandal being the legendary Roland’s sword

[wet maple]

...i just looked that up, Bungie really likes naming their AIs after stuff like that

[craggy finch]

The Weapon takes the name Joyeuse, the sword of Charlemagne, Roland’s king

Joyeuse was incidentally alluded to in the terminals when Durandal notes Charlemagne gave his weapons feminine names

[haughty sapphire]

The weapon post halo infinite also chose the same name which is fitting

[last sparrow]

"That fruitcake."

[craggy finch]

If anything Durandal should have a French accent

[scenic iron]

Why is that

[craggy finch]

Lovely Durandana

[wet maple]

and then we have a Joyeuse and a Charlemagne in Destiny as well

[craggy finch]

The name is from a French legend

[ember narwhal]

So is this Dirty Doll character always green or did they eat something to make them that way?

[craggy finch]

The Song of Roland is also alluded to in relation to the Security Officer himself, with him as Roland

Yet Durandal ironically uses Roland as a weapon here

[cold grove]

guys who is more elite shadow index or midnight decay shells?

[weary cairn]

I just finished a replay of Marathon Durandal. Read all 81 terminals, including the secret ones. I had a lot of fun. Even though the game is 31 yeas old, the story is still great, and Durandal is such a cool character.

[craggy finch]

Shadow Index is a progression thing that is gifted to you by the cool kids club

[wet maple]

I think the main thing that will goof with me is probably just the dated controls, that usually is what messes with me

[cold grove]

ok im almost there lol 2 more challenges to go

[shy violet]

Midnight decay seems more like a death cult

[craggy finch]

I need that smoke missiles Destroyer feat then I get the Shadow Index for him

Just that one left

[cold grove]

the description is hard to understand

[weary cairn]

The controls are smoother that classic DOOM imo. Really not that bad, I just had to turn up the sensitivity.

[cold grove]

im probably gonna rock my midnight to rep arachne if thats the case but shadow index is cool to flaunt my mastery

[shy violet]

There runners who legit don’t a flying you know what about living or dying they just the next payday

[acoustic comet]

Since cryo archive is coming out tomorrow, I just have to know, did the people who journeyed to Tau seti 4 pretty much all die? Or did they get mutated or something? Abducted by aliens?

[craggy finch]

It me except I rarely get paid

[shy violet]

They made it there disease happened then alien invasion they barely fended off and then something happened

[craggy finch]

Just eat shit and die with a net 2k loss

[cold grove]

sounds more my speed id do the same thing if i were i damn biocybernetic badass

id take over the world

[craggy finch]

Going by the trailer, the contagion and Anomaly incidents happen 10-20 years after the invasion

[shy violet]

Oh yeah forgor bout that

[craggy finch]

Going by log implications, the invasion was covered up by New Cascadia then the colony falls when the Anomaly hits

Jasper’s logs are post collapse and he only ever refers to those incidents

[cold grove]

were the aliens the cause of the anomoly?

[craggy finch]

Possibly

Nobody knooooows

[digital plaza]

Unclear, but a lot of them did die because of the first attack/contagion/starvation/civil unrest

[shy violet]

Surprisingly maybe or maybe not

[weary cairn]

Is M2 retconned then? After the player in M1 fends off the invasion, Durandal and he leave and Tau Ceti is attacked by the Pfhor again about 3 months later.

[shy violet]

Personally think there’s something wrong with the planet

[cold grove]

uesc might have done it themselves to control resources or something

[craggy finch]

Yeah Durandal never contacted UESC either as far as we know

[shy violet]

Humanity doesn’t have the capacity to create something like that

[digital plaza]

Unclear, but we got strong hints that something inside the planet is seems to be the cause of it

[shy violet]

That’s all weird unknown space magic

[weary cairn]

Would have been Leela. And I thought she did, it just arrived over a century after the attack

[craggy finch]

Everyone in charge like the president and military general have zero idea what’s going on

The president ends investigations into the Anomaly and the general sees hallucinations of his dead wife

[wet maple]

poking the wiki, ppl seem to have identified the timeline as

2794 - Pfhor invasion
2804 - Lost all contact with Tau Ceti 4
2812 - Chemical or biological attack on the colony
2827 - unidenfified attack on the colony
2893 - Current present

[shy violet]

My fave lore entry is of the anomaly event because it’s someone freaking out over the literal impossible object you just sold on the black market

[digital plaza]

No

[craggy finch]

The pre release ARG shows documents about a relief effort called Project Goliath that was kickstarted in 2795 when contact was loss, so the implication is that the UESC covered it up for ten years

[weary cairn]

Checks out. I guess the Hfearl never made it back to Earth either from Lh'owen?

[shy violet]

It’s very worrying how relatively close that last attack was from the present

[craggy finch]

Poor Bob Blake

We don’t even know if Boomer is a factor at all

[wet maple]

M2 takes place in 2811, Durandal was long gone

[shy violet]

What if the invaders come back

[digital plaza]

Dates are correct, but naming is wrong

[craggy finch]

I think he’s referring to when Durandal and Tycho claim the colony was blasted to bedrock three months after M1

[weary cairn]

Nah, Boomer was destroyed. Durandal took over Tycho's ship. Then he gave it up for a Jjaro ship.

[craggy finch]

That clearly didn’t happen here

[craggy finch]

But it’s unclear what happened in this continuity

[weary cairn]

Yeah, fair.

[digital plaza]

They did not

[craggy finch]

Plus the S’pht in this game resemble those from the Pfhor scout ship that became Boomer

[weary cairn]

So cool! I never dreamed we'd get a modern Marathon game. I'm so hyped!

[shy violet]

No I’m saying in the future while we are here

[digital plaza]

Oh

[craggy finch]

I’m just waiting on the Pfhor at this point

[shy violet]

Like we get there attention

[digital plaza]

Yeah that would be cool

[craggy finch]

Itching to gib some yellow blood dudes

Given how aggressive UESC recruits fight in melee I think that’s a good template for the Pfhor fighter

Throws some lightning at you then charges in to smack you up

Then imagine how hunters would fight here

[weary cairn]

But then again, the Pfhor might be too busy fighting off the S'pht'kr at this point.

[craggy finch]

We don’t quite know that happened

Those 17 years between games have changed

No destruction of Tau Ceti in 2794

No FTL warp missiles

No human/Spht alliance from M2 epilogue either

[wet maple]

Actually, that seems to have been a thing

2881
Pfhor home system is sacked by the combined fleets of Earth and the S'pht'Kr.[1]
Im quoting the wiki here admittedly, so accuracy is debatable

[weary cairn]

Well, maybe Durandal worked time to save it from total destruction. Who knows lol. I'm here for it. Hope to blast some Pfhor and S'pht in modern Marathon someday. Would be a sweet update.

[wet maple]

But this is under the "new battles" section, which looks to be related to Marathon 2026

[craggy finch]

In the MIDA contracts it documents what are implied to be encounters with the compilers and neither Orion nor the AI Cerberus have any idea what they are

So S’pht are still a complete mystery to the UESC

[craggy finch]

That’s Marathon 2’s epilogue and Infinity throws all the events out of whack

[elfin ermine]

ye no shit let's kill runners instead of sending forces to marathon

[wet maple]

If I had to take a gander, We are probably sitting in like, one of the various alternate timelines from Infinity or some shit

[craggy finch]

Well UESC has Marathon under lockdown and the ARG involved terminating enough robots so that we could access it

[weary cairn]

I definitely think so.

[craggy finch]

Or some kind of “perfect timeline” since the other timelines were destroyed the moment the Wrkncacnter was released

[wet maple]

something like that ye

[craggy finch]

Perhaps changing the immediate events after M1 were key to merging Durandal with Thoth and sealing the Wrkncactner

Since one timeline has Tycho kidnap you onto a Pfhor ship instead of Durandal

In the final timeline it begins with you in a cell on Lh’owon

[wet maple]

Honestly was thinking about this and tbh they probably already have investigative teams on the Marathon. There's a non-zero chance the UESC we are dealing with is the team sent in response to Leela's signal

[craggy finch]

I think Orion’s group responded to the 2888 message at FTL

The Equanimity was part of Project Goliath dispatched almost a century ago and is expected to arrive 2894

The 2888 message seems to have been Durandal instead of Leela as well

[weary cairn]

Oh wild.

[craggy finch]

Somewhere in the Heavens

They Are Waiting

[wet maple]

Leela's message seems to have been dated 2886

can't verify that tho

[craggy finch]

Yeah that’s about right since Leela says the message will take 92 years

Perhaps it got intercepted and altered

It was stated to include information on the Pfhor and their technology

In addition to being a distress call

[weary cairn]

I hope we get to see some more stuff from the old games show up, even if it's just in cinematics. Would love to see a cutscene of Durandal "humbleing" battle group 7. 🤣

[craggy finch]

I want to see the nine Mjolnir messing up some Pfhor

[weary cairn]

Hell yeah.

[wet maple]

its interesting to me, bc at least in the trailers we got, it doesn't seem like the Runners have ever encounters a S'pht Compiler before.

Which is mildly interesting to me bc there's some suggestion seeminly that the Runner shell technology is developed from Jjaro tech. I can't imagine Humanity getting their hands on what would become Runner shells otherwise unless they were stupid levels of advanced cybernetically in the og trilogy

[weary cairn]

Hopefully with the iconic helmets too. Halo called them security helmets.

[wet maple]

esp since the Runner shells are full Dcorp

[craggy finch]

The Jjaro visited Earth in 1994 according to Pathways into Darkness

So they had access to that long before contact with the Pfhor and S’pht

[wet maple]

ig at the minimum, the tech that would become the Runners simply hadn't been developed yet

Granted, a century is a long ass time

[weary cairn]

Especially with how technology develops exponentially faster.

[craggy finch]

It’s more from the Runners being implicit descendants of the Battleroids

[weary cairn]

So in this timeline, the Jjaro aren't extinct?

[craggy finch]

The ending of Infinity implies the Security Officer is a Battleroid implanted with Jjaro tech humanity didn’t understand

[craggy finch]

The thing is they were disguised as regular colonists since they were smuggled in as sleeper agents, so they likely look like normal people in various jobs

The SO’s iconic armour is suggested to be standard security kit

Since he was unaware of being a cyborg and just assumed he was more physically capable than the others by nature

[wet maple]

Pathways into Darkness came out before Marathon

Also iirc the Jjaro were never extinct, just absent

[craggy finch]

We don’t really know if they’re extinct, they appeared in the 90s and just don’t appear in the original Marathon games aside from being constantly referenced

[weary cairn]

Idk what that is lol. Older game? Is it directly connected to Marathon?

[wet maple]

Pathways into Darkness was bungie's previous game before og Marathon

[craggy finch]

Yeah the Wrkncacnter is the same thing that you have to nuke in that game

[sterile seal]

iirc that's called a Cyberhead

[weary cairn]

Oh sick.

[craggy finch]

Bungie teased the connection with a message about Jjaro in the first game and the second game had the S’pht mythology revolve around a creator called Yrro

The Wrkncacnter is just the final connection

[sage lark]

Here is the timeline of the silkworm/weaveworm tech where you can see when shells started being a thing #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

Very recently

[craggy finch]

All the threats in Pathways and the dungeon itself are creations of the sleeping Wrkncactner

It just occurred to me that Jjaro/Yrro is an allusion to Jehovah/Yehova

[weary cairn]

Yeah, Yrro threw the Wrkncacnter into the sun because it killed his wife. He then gave his paradise world (Lh'owen) to the S'pht. I read that in a M2 terminal the other day. Just had no no idea it was referencing earlier than Marathon games. That's really cool.

Also, the Wrkncacnter can just swim around in the sun, so what kind of creature is it? Doesn't seem to give a fuck.

[craggy finch]

It’s also possible Yrro is just a singular representation of the entire species that got distorted over time

The Jjaro messenger in Pathways is named Ryu’Toth

Which may have some relation to the AI Thoth

[weary cairn]

Makes sense, but remember that Thoth was a designation Durandal assigned to the S'pht construct. It wasn't the original name.

[craggy finch]

Ah

[sage lark]

A being of chaos that defies the laws of reality

[craggy finch]

Apparently it eats people

It sucked the life force out of Tfear’s men in one dead timeline

The one depicted in the manual

[sage lark]

Or distorts

[craggy finch]

Durandal also says it’s “hungry”

[weary cairn]

Hmm. Well, considering the Pfhor decided to use a Jjaro weapon to cause Lh'owen's star to go supernova... maybe the Pfhor accidentally released the Wrkncacnter in that timeline.

[craggy finch]

Yeah that’s the conceit

Either the Pfhor or Tycho accidentally release it with the trih xeem and you have to stop that

At least in the final timeline you activate the Jjaro station before the sun explodes

[sage lark]

Thats exactly what happens

[weary cairn]

My bad, haven't played M1 or M3 in over a decade. I play on Xbox so only have access to the Durandal port for 360 rn. Only replayed it to refresh my memory a little before playing the new Marathon.

[craggy finch]

They’re all free

Either on Steam or a website called Aleph One

[weary cairn]

Yeah, but only Durandal is on Xbox.

[sage lark]

Or iOS

[craggy finch]

Well it was made for Mac so even that can handle it lol

[weary cairn]

Fair point lol

At this point I'm happy playing the new one though. OG marathon has great lore and story, but gameplay is dated. Not sure I wanna sit through all 3 right now lol

[craggy finch]

Only the backgrounds and events of the first game appear relevant so far

Durandal also recalls in M2 how the green suit airlock technicians of the Marathon had to strip naked because the simulacrums were all deployed with green suits; a log in the new game has a BoB file a complaint because someone left a pile of green suits lying around as a prank

[weary cairn]

That's fantastic lmao

Yeah, don't approach the guys in green suits. They only have two toes and they don't have genetals, so they're weird.

[craggy finch]

Thank god you’re here

[weary cairn]

Oh, and they explode themselves to kill you, but that's a lessor offense.

[civic valve]

Any reason why the uesc drone “suck” the life out of us?

[scenic iron]

Maybe to prevent the runners from escaping their shells?

I'm not sure tho

[civic valve]

I mean i understand if it’s there for gameplay im just confused why the robotic unit needs a life force of a synthetic shell

[scenic iron]

It might just be gameplay

[weary cairn]

Maybe their way of trying to capture your virtual consciousness? Not sure, but it would make sense.

[sage lark]

Could be in the codex not sure

[sterile seal]

has some exclusive multiplayer maps too, and now there's a pair of official Marathon Xbox controllers to play it with

glad you can play it on Series X

[fair steppe]

So is this one a direct continuation from Marathon 2? I assume it has to be since infinity is timeline shenanigans

[junior panther]

GIVE ME MORE ROOK]

[weary cairn]

No, we've been discussing that.

[fair steppe]

Okay that would make more sense

[weary cairn]

@craggy finch seems pretty knowledgeable on the subject. He said that mostly M1 is relevant at this point.

But just read the last bit of the conversation.

[craggy finch]

A lot of it is also stuff I’m parroting from @visual lynx who’s an OG Bungie.org contributor

[craggy finch]

Basically we know the Pfhor invasion happens and some other specific events from M1 are mentioned, but everything from Marathon 2 hasn’t happened

The destruction of Tau Ceti three months after the invasion is a big thing the new game changed

[fair steppe]

It’s been a minute since I last played 1 since I don’t want to go through Colony ship for sale, cheap again so I may need to brush up on things

[wet maple]

Recharging their own chassis, because they seam to heal when they do it

[craggy finch]

Also not sure how I missed the Cryo Archive trailer but “so, please, do scream” is the closest we’ve got to the old sarcastic Durandal

[civic valve]

Oh yea that actually make sense.

[fair steppe]

So it’s all but confirmed that the AI we’re hearing from is Durandal? It has it been actually confirmed and I missed it?

[wet maple]

If it is Durandal, he needs to do some door fuckery /hj

[weary cairn]

Also to be fair, changes in the timeline can happen, so it doesn't necessarily mean M2 hasn't happened... Just not in this timeline. In other words, don't be discouraged from reading up on lore from the other game or playing them. It's still super fascinating.

[fair steppe]

I think he’s had enough of door stuff

[ionic eagle]

Anyone experience ghost bots? Like ones you can't kill, they seem to glitch and can shoot back but can't be killed.

[weary cairn]

Lmao

[wet maple]

Probably, but it would be really really funny

[weary cairn]

The fuckin S'pht are back!

[fair steppe]

300 years of opening doors to save a couple bucks. I think if we ever ask anything door related of Durandal again he may fly off the deep end… like more off the deep end

[wet maple]

Which is kinda amusing, cause doesn't the Cryo Archive involve a buncha doors?

[fair steppe]

Perhaps that’s his way of taking revenge

Make us open all the doors

[wet maple]

I wouldn't be surprised. He's a very salty bastard

[fair steppe]

But if it is Durandal then I have to wonder why he’s here and talking to us? I also have to wonder what happened to Mjolnir but maybe he just wasn’t woken up in this timeline?

[wet maple]

If he's on the Marathon a century after the Pfhor invasion, I've got a sneaking suspicion one of two things happened:

1. He never left and likely can't leave the system.

2. He left and came back for some reason.

[sage lark]

thats what we will figure out

[fair steppe]

I’d love it if he turned into faction or something. I’d run contracts for that sarcastic bastard all day!

[wet maple]

I could see him offering like, Cryo Archive based contracts or something

[sage lark]

cyac will have timed contracts

[echo sundial]

they gave durandal the twitter account

incredible marketing lol wtf

[wet maple]

They what?

[digital plaza]

He posting his podcast snippets too

[thick willow]

More like Doorandal

[echo sundial]

durandal in control of the marathon twitter account

he should doordash me taco bell

[fair steppe]

Okay wait if Durandal is still here then isn’t it possible that some events of the first game also didn’t happen? He’d have traveled to Lh’owan ages ago… or maybe he did and there’s some reason he came back

[sage lark]

thats what we will find out

[peak halo]

"Hey durandal buddy long time no see"

"What have you been up to lately"

[timber loom]

Bots are more then eager to shoot the downed runner if they can't reach them

So I would say it is 50/50 if it is a gameplay (speed up death after dbno) or lore thing. Might be both. Though I doubt they suck lifeforce. I would guess they are either trying to steal some data from them, like memory, or outright prevent the consciousness from ejecting, but for now runner's final death is not established in the lore afaik

Which I found funny, since it requires only some sort of wi-fi jammer to not let those pesky runners run away from death to their mother's hard drive, in theory

[sudden pollen]

Bababooey

Guys did you know that Marton has lore?

[simple garden]

My current theory is that humanity in the 2026 timeline is basically no longer existent as organic life- we've seen no humans in-game, it's possible it could be an entirely post-human timeline.

[timber loom]

Well, there is poped-up guy in anomaly, it is not a colonist, but one of the new UESC crew

[distant cedar]

Humans still exist
but a significant amount of the population at Sol has become Biomata users too

[simple garden]

I haven't seen that

[simple garden]

I don't entirely understand that but I'll take you at your word

[distant cedar]

Wait, fr?
Damn i gotta play more Dire Marsh

[timber loom]

The body you can see here yes, and it's source is found out in nucal contracts afaik

[distant cedar]

Basically a non-insignificant amount of the labour force back in the solar system is hinted at having been turned into shell users

Though keep in mind Biomatas only been around for like
50 years

[timber loom]

Or traxus, I don't remember, exactly, was watching Jake's contract's summary

[simple garden]

And what's biomata?

[distant cedar]

Shells

its the SekGen term for them

Though ig you could call pre-Biomata "full body prosthetics" Shells too so-

[simple garden]

SekGen? I'm like 8 hours in, all my knowledge is from the first 4 games.

[distant cedar]

New company that manufactures our runner shells

they are also pretty young all things considered?

[simple garden]

So the Shells are cyborgs instead of full robots?

[timber loom]

Well, it is not new, tbh

[distant cedar]

Not even that
Cybersynthetic bodies inhabited by uploaded human conciousnesses

[timber loom]

It participated in original Marathon mission

[distant cedar]

It did?

[timber loom]

Bioprinters in colony have sekgen logo on them

[simple garden]

Like a terminator- living tissue and cybernetic everything else

[timber loom]

Also codex entries for cats tell how SekGen provided felini synthetic cats to Marathon

[simple garden]

Not like a Battleroid where it's formerly living tissue revived around a cyborg enhancement

[distant cedar]

Well the cybernetic is living tissue
Its like
not human tissue but printed by the silly worms

[simple garden]

the ones in the loading screens?

[distant cedar]

fully manufactured, not a cyborg by any common definitions

[distant cedar]

Yesh

Watch the reveal cinematic, its very good

and has a scene where they build a shell from the ground up

[simple garden]

the what?

[timber loom]

Yes, runners are 3d-printed from one substrat that is suitable to be reprogrammed to bones, muscles, etc

Like stem-cells

WEAVEworms do precisely that

[distant cedar]

Do you know when the company was founded again?
iirc its either the 2100s or a tad later but i could be missremembering
In any case its marginally younger

Also not sure they were in the old games

[timber loom]

2152

[distant cedar]

https://youtu.be/fvbEnWLRo1s

[timber loom]

It is new in terms of appearance in games, but lorewise it was involved in Marathon mission in NuMarton

[simple garden]

NuMarton?

[distant cedar]

New
Marathon

NuMarathon

[simple garden]

Seems impressive but it gives me motion sickness to watch it

Unfortunately I could not finish it

[visual lynx]

almost certainly the latter

after setting the SO free, so who knows what he's up to

[torpid thicket]

Maybe it’s an attempt to hijack a dbno Runner’s systems before they pull the plug, and the sped up bleed-out is a failsafe on-board the Shell to prevent said data loss?

[craggy finch]

Our brains instantly explode just before the meter runs out so I’m assuming we fail safe to avoid the forced download of our information

[torpid thicket]

Pretty much 😄

Kiss_my_ass_Orion.exe fires, and UESC fails to get anything useful from what was the head of the now exploded Shell.

[craggy finch]

Like an automated version of the “give up” prompt

Instead of triggering it manually your shell responds when the UESC is about to breach and you’re not revived or exfilled

[digital plaza]

It’s lead anomaly’s researcher https://youtu.be/C1vZDwPmL-U?is=QNzpvhvb4iaPU4fJ

[digital plaza]

Are they? We don’t got a ton of info on earth and it’s people, so I’m interested where are you coming from

[craggy finch]

Not sure about work force but gantry talks about how MIDA members are willing to alter themselves and noticeably talks about the biomata process like he’s not one of them

So there are more standard cyborgs and gantry might be that level

[torpid thicket]

That makes more sense, given that SEKGEN probably doesn’t want to give up even the remains of a Shell to UESC, so the failsafe isn’t something that a Runner could choose to activate on the off-chance that someone tries to defect.

[distant cedar]

UESC uses shells

Destroyer and Recon are literally UESC shell patterns

[craggy finch]

I think it’s more so referring to information and the consciousness of the Runner

Not Shells themselves

We just leave them behind afterwards anyway

[distant cedar]

There is several logs suggesting the existence of Biomata and non-Biomata workers

[torpid thicket]

I wonder what MIDA would make of AI rampancy?

[distant cedar]

.

[distant cedar]

Bernard Strauß was Mida

[craggy finch]

Corporate nonsense probably, I don’t think they trust programs made by private companies and the government

[craggy finch]

But he was also actively trying to create a rampant one

And the new MIDA of gantry is a group of young radical offshoots

[distant cedar]

Well yes
Free the AI by making it rampant (through torture)

[craggy finch]

Not the one from history

[distant cedar]

Fair enough
Ig its to be seen how theyll interact with Durandal

[timber loom]

Also this guy form UESC ||Orion||

[craggy finch]

Also from the MIDA quest line we know the UESC has no reliable way to actually destroy or contain the Runner consciousness, so Orion settles on killing you over and over again until you get tired of it

[torpid thicket]

Runnah, MIDA wants to slam the door in UESC’s face. Let’s do it, literally.

In a single run:

Force one of the Marathon’s core AIs to do nothing but open doors for the majority of the voyage between solar systems.

[craggy finch]

And that’s when they already have access to biomata tech

[digital plaza]

Ooh I think I know where this is from, the only item in the game that I never found…

[timber loom]

Fair point. So probably bots just trying to extract data from you

I mean, UESC want answers too

[torpid thicket]

I guess that means that from a 4th wall perspective, a player getting burnt out and quitting Marathon is Orion winning? 😄

[digital plaza]

LOL what a great marketing idea. RUNNER DO NOT LET UESC WIN DO NOT QUIT THE GAME!

[craggy finch]

So he’s been the one hiring Runners to shoot me constantly and piss me the fuck off

[torpid thicket]

It’s been well-established that us Runners will do all sorts of morally grey stuff for credits, so the occasional liaison with UESC seems like standard fare. 😄

[craggy finch]

Like Silva talking about getting rats to eat each other in Skyfall

The survivors get a taste for rat

[torpid thicket]

On a more serious note, here’s to hoping that you get some better luck in your future runs 🙂

[craggy finch]

We all need it

I’m not even touching Cryo in a while but I’m going to harass my friend into buying the game if duos comes out

[torpid thicket]

As much as I’ve joked about going in and immediately dying to the S’pht Compiler on other Discord servers, I’ve got the same mindset. 😄

I feel like I’m getting a bit better, but I’ve always sucked at primarily pvp games 😄

[craggy finch]

They showcased Wardens like they’re an afterthought in the trailer so imagine how souped up compilers are

The compilers in the game are also closer to the original game’s size

So they might be at the same level as the ones the Security Officer fought

[digital plaza]

8 (I think) hours until I lose all of my shit on Cryo archive

🙏

[torpid thicket]

Sounds like whoever’s daring enough to try a Cryo run is gonna be in for a fun time 😄

[timber loom]

I hope cryo would be more reliable way to get good loot with crew fills

Rn it is literally impossible to go for Lockdown, I.e.

You bring all good loot and anti-virus and load in with 2 free kits who never asked for this

Tried LFG, got ambushed by competent runners after first Lockdown, guy just ragequited

[torpid thicket]

The kit value limit should prevent you from getting crewed up with two sponsored kits, so from there it’s just down to player skill and how well total strangers work together with possibly limited means of communication. 😄

[muted siren]

You still might load with 2 wierdos on cryo even with minium of 5k)
So you should find a constant group for these types of activities

[craggy finch]

I’ll go for one random fill and see how that shit works out as a gamble, fill up my inventory with enough junk enhancements to get to 5k

[timber loom]

Expensive weapons also a cheesy way to get in

Railgun cost like 3.4k

And it is usually of no use but getting sold

[craggy finch]

In a game where DPS is king for PvP you get a slow as molasses piece of shit as a reward from Arachne

[torpid thicket]

For some reason I’ve got a mental image of the Securitron doing a credit check outside of New Vegas in Fallout NV, but on the exterior hull of the Marathon. 😂

[craggy finch]

It guns down the Runner that’s too poor and he turns up again in another shell with better gear

[muted siren]

It makes sense)

[torpid thicket]

“Sponsored kit detected!”

[timber loom]

Literally. And that's when you have volt weapons that have a charge up AND infinite hold, you have this thing that charges up, but then fires by itself

[digital plaza]

Definitely need to try crew fill with some expandable loadouts, if the same brainrotted people will consistently play cryo it will be so joever

[timber loom]

I mean, except for this guns that are only buyable, pretty much else is expendable

So I'll load in with what I have in abundance, so blues and purple weapons

[craggy finch]

There seems to be diversity of close quarters and open shootouts on Cryo as well

[sage lark]

Blue shields only after the expensive nucal upgrade

So shields are gonna get low sooner or later

[craggy finch]

They finally invented portable shields you don’t need a wall charger for but they crank up the price

I love the free market

[sage lark]

Capitalism

[craggy finch]

I’m going to play Marathon on Total Carnage to see if shields run out at comparable rates to the Runners’

[torpid thicket]

It’s not the shields themselves that are expensive, it’s that NuCal decided to attempt to reinvent the rechargeable battery five times over. 😄

[craggy finch]

Also he doesn’t even have a separate regular health bar so anything that broke the SO’s shield would kill him instantly

[pseudo python]

I’m confused on how shells are powered. And what bingus is. Is bingus a shell too?

[craggy finch]

Shells are basically purpose built cyborgs: artificially grown organs and flesh with mechanical bits like brain implants

There’s no indication of some kind of power source

A lot of the systems appear to work like human biology

[craggy finch]

Also yeah the bingus are biomata like the shells but animal shaped, the kicker is that they’re AI

[torpid thicket]

Especially as SEKGEN seems to be eager to make Shells more and more human-like from what we learn from Nona.

[sinful thicket]

for rich enough clients there would be more fully functional and less combat oriented shells i'm sure

y'know what i mean by fully functional

[visual lynx]

*bingi

[visual lynx]

…and anatomically correct

[dense flare]

You made my day! Thank you so much! 💚 I DMed you, hope that was okay

[timber loom]

RN we are anything but anatomically correct. If I am getting it right we do not even have clothes or anything. What looks like clothes is just our skin

[sinful thicket]

"Sekiguchi this shell better come with the WIDEST hips or my money back."

then again maybe civillian shells are significantly cheaper because all they really have is synthetic flesh, organs and an electronic component for your brain to live in? it's the backup plan that's expensive, and the augmented runner shells

the only thing you couldn't do is properly reproduce with shells because there's no genetic material to transfer, it's just proprietary sekiguchi weaveworm meat

honestly apart from MIDA we haven't got a ton of signs that the world of Marathon in the Sol system is THAT bad. Yeah the Mars colony is rough, and perhaps the Marathon as an idea was absolutely insane, it also seems that regulation of corporations is at an all time low, but I haven't seen anything that shows the average citizen's life is absolutely terrible.

They've clearly solved energy by this point in time, since the energy required to get a hunk like the Marathon even to near-relative speeds is enormous. Energy, food and shelter scarcity largely drives societal issues

[timber loom]

It seems that after the Marathon the Mars is probably kinda abandoned, but also it should be better for those who left since Traxus did build a new ship for them

[sinful thicket]

why bother with the martian colony if tau ceti iv is more lucrative and more likely to prosper?

[timber loom]

It is probably comparable to Cameron's Avatar Earth

Like place is not good prob, but not that bad either

[sinful thicket]

what im saying is: I guess if you don't mind working for sekiguchi for a long time they're probably the biggest lgbtq advocate in marathon by pure accident xddd

[timber loom]

Just like you eat shit and the nature is non-present prob, but you can still live here

[sinful thicket]

you'd pay off your debt eventually (especially with the right job), live for long enough to do it, AND have the body you actually feel like you belong in. marathon is not that grimdark

[visual lynx]

the Marathon is fueled by interstellar medium because it uses a bussard ramjet

[sinful thicket]

and what of the energy to even do that to a moon? it's still completely insane by our standards

[visual lynx]

that's true

[timber loom]

The moon in question is like 5 miles width or something

[sinful thicket]

even aside from propulsion the ship itself would consume crazy amounts of electrical energy to even run, and you can't get that from solar panels or even radiator/solar panel combos alone

durandal probably required dozens of kilowatts to think

even more now after the merging

[visual lynx]

that can be powered by the same fusion reaction as provides propulsion

which will generate enormous amounts of waste heat anyway

which is why I figured there was lava on the Marathon

using liquid salt cooling or something

[sinful thicket]

fusion power that is not only functioning, but also portable enough to stick on an interstellar spacefaring vessel very much would "solve" energy back here at home

[timber loom]

Energy is not a problem, heat dissipation is, yeah

You can have nuclear

[sinful thicket]

although personally I still think renewables > nuclear power for now.

then you can save the fusion stuff for places that can't run on renewables, such as power hungry spaceships that need more juice than solar can provide

[tranquil basin]

Fission beats any renewable rn

We just need more

[sinful thicket]

in terms of sheer output yes but not in sustainability, timeframe to build, cost to run vs output etc.

fusion will make fission obsolete pretty quick if achieved

if you need power now you put in renewables. seems the colony was running on them once they actually got there

[tranquil basin]

Fission is definitely sustainable and worthwhile

[visual lynx]

the Marathon's drive doesn't need to be cold fusion like we need for ordinary Earth-based power, because it's basically an Orion drive (set off hydrogen bombs behind you to push you forward) that just collects hydrogen magnetically from space as it goes, so old-fashioned hot fusion like for bombs works fine.

[tranquil basin]

On earth

[sinful thicket]

like was I nuts or did I see wind farms in the game somewhere

[tranquil basin]

And while fusion is nice, you need tritium

I’m unsure

For a colony, yeah renewable setup would probably be good, also it’s the future I assume they could make them more efficient

[sinful thicket]

either way the colonists couldn't "just" build a nuclear reactor, they needed power quick, so carpet bombing the place with wind and solar generation makes the most sense

clearly the plan was not to simply dump the reactor of the marathon out once they got there since it's still functioning by this timeframe

otherwise you'd get to cryo archive and it'd be entirely blackout lul

also come to think of it you could strap rockets to pre-built wind turbines and have them de-orbit themselves where you wanted them to go. rods from god but for electricity

[tranquil basin]

Yeah for a colony a reactor that fast would be hard, assuming it’s not some future small reactor

[sinful thicket]

also consider the recon probes could pretty easily figure out the weather conditions but not quite get a geological scan without digging for samples

[torpid thicket]

What lore exists regarding Outpost’s heat cascades?

ie what exactly are they, or how and when did they start?

[sinful thicket]

malfunctioning cloud seeding guns

[wise vortex]

guys im a little confused deimos isnt exactly circular so why is it circular in marathon

[sinful thicket]

instead of doing their job sometimes they fart hot shrapnel, nothing to worry about

[torpid thicket]

Such is life on Tau Ceti IV 😄

[torpid thicket]

Do you mean

[wise vortex]

Everyone does that once in awhile dont worry

[torpid thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/drakeandjosh-spherical-present-take-this-offer-gif-5396234

[wise vortex]

Deimos isn't massive enough to have its own gravity to be strong enough for it to be circular

[torpid thicket]

Fair

[rancid grotto]

#🎨marathon-community-art-chat difamation against my homie

[torpid thicket]

My theory is that it’s shaped like that because of the prospecting that occurred on Deimos before it was turned into the Marathon?

[wise vortex]

this is against discord TOS

Dang the mods are very quick on their feet

[wise vortex]

Yes but theres no reason to mine i tinto a circular shape

[sinful thicket]

elaborate breached account goddamn

[sinful thicket]

just ended up like that I suppose, maybe an AI advised em to do it

[timber loom]

I mean, the Deimos is definitely inconsistent in the game overall

Like

[wise vortex]

stretching here. I think in 1994 we didn't really have any close up pics of Deimos

[sinful thicket]

i just wonder why the moon was neccesary. I know you can find "Deimosite" but isn't that just compressed rocks?

[timber loom]

It was whole before the attack and got broken only after, yet almost every in-game media featuring Marathon shows cracked Deimos

[prime heath]

Sometimes you gotta suspend a little bit of disbelief for video games

They reimagined how the marathon and deimos looked, so that when its in front of tau ceti iv it literally creates the marathon logo
It is what it is lol

[sinful thicket]

nothing valuable on there to justify building the ship through Deimos

wasn't the Marathon logo conceived to be a world within a world?

[timber loom]

I mean, in real life no, but in-game they have Deimosite Rods

Though it is questionable why get a moon with you when you can just load moon of minerals worth into your ship

It will be easier since you don't need to haul all inert crap

[sinful thicket]

perhaps the marathon was the first ship fully built in space?

[nocturne flame]

it has so much aura they made it do that

[timber loom]

Maybe it serves also other purposes, being a big ass radiator for heat dissipation

[sinful thicket]

so they needed something to start on and anchor everything so the orbit of the work site wouldn't change too much

[timber loom]

But doylean answer is obviously auramaxxing

[sinful thicket]

i know they had those space supply trucks but I wonder if those were sent up piecemeal from earth, like how the ISS was built

[hollow silo]

I just reread the log regarding AI rampancy criteria. The final disqualifier for 'true' rampancy is "AI was not branched for short-term modal usage as [REDACTED]."

I'm assuming the implication there is that they're branching AIs to use as runners, and not all runners were 'formerly' human like they claim

is that off base? are there other theories regarding what that might mean?

[prime heath]

this has honestly been my theory since the cinematic trailer

That we aren't truly human, we are just fragmented rampant ai

and with all the logs showing what the anomaly is capable of doing to ai's, i wouldnt be surprised if its legit

[timber loom]

I mean, cinematic hinted to Runner Rampancy

And it is actually kinda confirmed

[prime heath]

whats even crazier is the music thing the assassin finds is one of the ai subroutines we will be looting in cryo

[timber loom]

So maybe they are hinting that if by digitizing human you can have human go rampant

Just like AI

[tranquil basin]

Yeah there is you just start mining out material, and the it’s easier to mine the outer parts first

[timber loom]

Maybe you don't need to have human at all and just use ai to power shell

[tranquil basin]

Runners could still be rampant without being AI

The mjolnirs were implied to go rampant

Also if we were just AI, they’d just take a few of the best AIs and pump them into shells rather than have a bunch of flawed people give their bodies up

[prime heath]

this is big true, and if you finish the sekgen priority contracts nona is basically trying to slowly turn us into a battleroid seems to be the implication

[subtle oracle]

5 hours until we confirm or trash some big theories

[tranquil basin]

Yeah. It was also implied by marathon infinity chapter names

[timber loom]

If AI subroutine can make runner think

Maybe Durandal sees us as little brother caged AI

[prime heath]

this could go horribly wrong if you consider what he did to leela and tycho in 1 lol

[tranquil basin]

Probably not? Though the severed twins codex entries might say so (I’ve only read the first one, waiting to find more)

[tranquil basin]

Excellent point

[timber loom]

That is probably his goal

[tranquil basin]

Hey we’re similar. Anyways you’re fucked

[subtle oracle]

the issue is we arent ai. We are "human" in the sense that our consciousness doesnt originate from a program

[prime heath]

the thing is, thats what you think
tbh a lot of the lore entires and marathons entire schtick has been ai rampancy for decades, im genuinely convinced we arent fully human consciousness anymore or never were to begin with

[timber loom]

I mean, we are not, but also there might be not as big of a difference

[subtle oracle]

I think it could definitely be a twin souls deal

half and half, who wins out

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but I’d still go with the fact that multiple game devs described us as human consciousnesses

[prime heath]

tbf if this is a lore reveal bungie would probably hold that card close

[tranquil basin]

Though at what point you consider yourself still human is worth pondering

[prime heath]

bungie is not scared to misrepresent lore if theres a twist coming lol

[timber loom]

As in difference is only that our consciousness was formed by natural ways, and not created, but we are the same brain in a jar on a silicon anyway

[tranquil basin]

Well I don’t think they’d just blatantly lie about something so fundamental in the marketing then

[subtle oracle]

Isnt this basically the large point of the entire game series? basically challenging what it means to be human

[tranquil basin]

Yeah

[prime heath]

tbh this really wouldnt register as lying to me, it would register as bungie hiding a plot twist

[subtle oracle]

the reason we're a consciousness is bc iirc thats what the humans in marathon largely view as the human, not the body

the body? you could say its a...

shell

[tranquil basin]

Just a gooey soft one

With less explosives

Unless you’re a simulacrum

Or a MIDA plant

But again, if we were AI, then there’d be no reason to have actual people give up their bodies to be digitized

Which definitely happens because charter and gantry both describe it

[hollow silo]

They make a lot of fuss in the terminal entries on 'Runners and Shells' that the Shells have a 'personality matrix' preprogrammed into them. They even describe it as 'unproven science'. I think the idea of the shells being at least partially fragmented AI is entirely possible, even if there is a human mind crammed in there too

[tranquil basin]

_gantry also specifically notes you ripped your soul from your body

Key word would be partially but yeah that could be

[timber loom]

I mean, it is cheaper and probably AI might suffer rampancy in that case real fast

[tranquil basin]

I think it’s cheaper to just copy paste a billion times

Get some of the best people, copy paste, have a bunch of copies of their mind on standby for when operating ones go rampant

[timber loom]

It is just speculations though. I guess it will be explored in the future

Can a shell live in it's own

Can AI live in a shell

Can digitized human live inside a computer and open/close doors for 300 years

Especially if Durandal never left the Marathon. What if it can't?

It is not that you can download full ChatGPT on your smartphone and run away with it. Maybe there was no possibility for him to do that either

[hollow silo]

From the reveal cinematic, there's a part where they show the same picture to two different shells and tell both shells that the picture is of them as a human. There's 2 interpretations of what that means:

1. They're telling the truth, and both cases are just the same runner inhabiting different shells at different points in time.
2. They're big fat liars

I find 2 to be far more likely, and far more interesting, because it begs the question why would they lie about something so basic?

As far as I can figure, they're either trying to undermine the runners' memories and sense of self in order to make them easier to manipulate, OR... they're doing the exact opposite. They're trying to implant memories and a sense of self into the runners.

They even call the activity 'grounding', as in, grounding the runners with a sense of identity and purpose. And the major driver for rampancy is, you guessed it, loss of identity and purpose. There's no way that's coincidental.

wow that was bigger than I realized

[timber loom]

And a shell might be such medium, so it might leave the marathon at last

[tranquil basin]

Why would Durandal not have left the marathon

[desert terrace]

Do we know where our shells exfil to? Is there a station for runners orbiting TCIV or are they exfilling to Solar system?

[timber loom]

Why would Durandal return here then?

[tranquil basin]

I still think they just reused the asset for the photo. Because if they really showed them the same photos, when assassins picks up the photo from vandal’s body he’d probably be like woah what

[hollow silo]

I believe the DCON stations are described as transporting matter 'into orbit' so my assumption is that the exfil stations work the same way, and there are servers in orbit that store our consciousness between runs.

[tranquil basin]

For the anomalous stuff

Jjaro tech

[timber loom]

Ok, fair

Anyway, we'll probably get glances of big D in next hours anyway

[desert terrace]

That would make sense, from what I grasped so far the humanity in Sol system can FtL information but there is a problem with FtL living beings

[timber loom]

Definetly to TC4, since we start by fixing our FTL connection to Sol

[tranquil basin]

I see a lot of ppl suggest we can’t ftl living beings, is there something that implies this

[timber loom]

In what way we are present on TC4 we don't really know

[tranquil basin]

Bc we know the UESC have some regular humans on tau ceti

And they didn’t come from the equanimity

[hollow silo]

Do you mean Bungie themselves reused the asset? Or the megacorps within universe? Because I don't believe for a second that in a trailer with so much attention to detail they'd just reuse a major asset like that and not have it mean something within the story.

[visual lynx]

"it" 🙄

[visual lynx]

and to prevent another Wrk from getting free and ruining his universe

[tranquil basin]

I mean the people who animated the trailer. Because otherwise, assassin would have noticed hey this photo is the same. Also the photo isn’t of a particularly high fidelity either

Like I would think they wouldn’t miss that detail, but he should have noticed the photo was the same but he didn’t

[hollow silo]

ONI repeatedly makes mention of memory 'cleaning' when you load into missions, I think they have a lot of fine control over what runners remember or don't remember when they're uploaded or downloaded

It would be pretty trivial for them to just snip that memory out

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but then what’s the point of showing them the photo in the first place

If they’ll just forget it. It seemed like the point was to test the dissociation of shells after deaths

[timber loom]

It is damn cruel if they are continuously erasing the memory of a photo and then ask if runner remembers it

[hollow silo]

To try and give them a sense of identity, to keep them from going rampant.

Either b/c humans in digital form can go rampant like AI, or because there's some AI mixed in with that human consciousness, or because they're just entirely AI

[hollow silo]

I imagined more that they'd wipe his memory of finding the same photo on the vandal's body, not of showing it to him in the first place

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but it clearly doesn’t give them any sense of identity if they just wipe the memory after 10s

[timber loom]

Well, logistics doesn't work. He never exfilled with it, but if void did exfill while the memory was erased when he took that photo so he didn't notice anything what would oni do then?

Seems like blunder

[tranquil basin]

Yeah. At this point, there’s just too many assumptions behind why the photos would be shown and whatnot, so the simpler explanation would be it was just a reused asset and it probably wasn’t meant to be looked at

Which, imo, Id go for the simpler explanations until more evidence is shown

[timber loom]

I mean, that would be kinda lame for a cinematic. I would imagine asset reused for something non-important like buildings in the background bearing the same texture or smth, but this thing is like in a focus

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but the photo itself isn’t very clear

It’s rlly un detailed

And there’s just no good explanation I’ve seen as to why they’d actually show the same photo, all of them either contradict each other or just pull something out of left field that doesn’t sound v reasonable

Plus we know not all the assets in it weren’t great, like the triage model they used

And the photo of the mother is even blurrier if I remember

[timber loom]

I mean, the simplest would be it is literally a same runner, though it steals from the mystery

[tranquil basin]

No bc that assumes a lot of stuff

Like that they have the same runner do different shells

Which wasn’t a thing when the cinematic was made

That was when they were still individual ppl

If they were the same runner it would also imply that they aren’t actually humans that gave up their bodies despite all of the lore and dev people saying that is the case, whether you believe them to be still “fully human” or not

[timber loom]

Mmm, gameplay trailer released along reference shells as runners, but also features three Glitch team

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but it’s also a gameplay trailer

The lore at that point was each shell was an individual person with a backstory

According to devs

And then ppl didn’t like it much

[desert terrace]

Maybe it was just a random photo that was not any of the known characters, they were just showing it to them to test their emotional response

[timber loom]

It is pretty standard for anything hero-based to not have ability to draft the same hero for your team

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but that doesn’t change that they had backstories or were individual characters

According to devs and people

Plus if it was a lore issue that you could just infil with multiple of the same hero, then it’d be an equal lore issue that you find a copy of yourself on the enemy team

[tranquil basin]

Maybe, but it still wouldn’t make sense why assassin didn’t react when he saw vandal had the same photo he was shown the last time he rebooted

[timber loom]

It is not a lore issue, it is kinda game-design issue. If there are 3 of you in your team you don't feel as playing a unique character

And enemies are not present here at all times unlike your allies to break immersion

[tranquil basin]

That doesn’t change that the actual lore intention was that they were individual people with backstories

And then they shifted it between April and December

[timber loom]

Where I can read more about that though?

[tranquil basin]

Great question. Idk, I’m sure there are vids on it, but I assume Bungie altered everything after retconning that considering they delisted the 2023 vidoc

[craggy finch]

I wonder how swapping skins works in lore

does my current shell change its colours or do I have to move to an entirely different shell?

[timber loom]

ONI mentions shell repairs being preferable to new shell print

[rare copper]

Guys I know this sounds insane but I think durandel is in one of the cats

[timber loom]

So they might skin you literally

Then get you a new skin installed

[rare copper]

In the last Biosynthetic Pet Prototype they talk about the ghost cats that doors open for, and who is the door poening AI? Durandel.

[timber loom]

We need to kinda figure out how connected we're ship AIs and colony ones

Rn it appears as if they were disconnected

Also I wonder what was the purpose and role of the ship after colony establishment

It seems like high command might have been located there

But otherwise why would not they take everything they could including AIs in some form to the ground? It is not that they could hop on Marathon and fly away back to sol

[craggy finch]

It was a huge logistical centre

Even the Security Officer had to make trips to and from the Marathon

It's how he got caught up in the invasion

[timber loom]

Make sense, there was some heavy traffic at outpost and I doubt it was between parts of the colony

Which also raises the question how big and how vastly spanned the colony is

[plain flame]

Initial colonization probably went quick, but when shit started going south stuff got abandoned right fast

[sage lark]

Some guy came here yesterday and said the Equanimity is here based on arg

I didnt follow arg so I couldnt rebutt but yeah

Apparently theres security footage from Equanimity that shows New Cascadia dated 2893

And apparently Equanimity has no cyborgs on board just biomata

Lemme find the link to it

Starts here #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

Make of that what you will

Mostly from the Multi Interface Data Assistant person

[distant cedar]

????

That makes 0 sense ngl

[distant cedar]

How do we know its from the Equan?

[sage lark]

Idk bro said

Read their messages

I couldnt debate cuz i had no knowledge of the ARG

[distant cedar]

It literally states theres 48 aboard...?

[spare bison]

Hi guys ! Any new audio logs ?

[dreamy hawk]

In one of the drafts, they do edit out of the other drafts, and one email is specifically talking about how crazy it would be to send them. Personally I think they still sent them.

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t know it well enough either but I’m still not convinced it’s arrived.

[distant cedar]

I think i found the one you posted it here before
It only says they wouldn't send mjölnirs doe
Sharhurs are their own type of battleroid right?
Seriously hope they ain't of the table i wanna be mauled by roids and secdrones

[dreamy hawk]

They ended up officially sending clones and spec ops I think but I’d need to go and look again when I’m not getting ready for work.

[lunar cove]

It's not entirely clear after re-reading the equanimity documents. There was a lot of back and forth with people who wanted a militarized mission vs a humanitarian one, and the humanitarian side is basically forced to acknowledge they need to send a military ship

[terse wren]

Yeah that’s pretty blatant

[sage lark]

Dulalan opening doors

classic

I wonder how Duramon will appear on the Marathon

[lunar cove]

Re-reading, doesn't explicitly say no cyborgs. Just that they were going to make a case for it due to PR and budget concerns

[terse wren]

I think disappearing cat is a nod in part to the Cheshire Cat, who shares quite a number of features w Durandal.

[lunar cove]

Because when Marathon left, cyborgs were purely for war as opposed to the "present" of the mission prep (which is still 100 years ago)

And that clones are cheaper and need less maintenance

[loud crater]

https://marathon.bungie.org/story/

[sage lark]

I think Dumbledoor will be the enemy

[loud crater]

I have this for anyone who is addicted to lore like me it’s ranging from the 97 games lore to now 🤟

[shadow dove]

does anyone know where the mida speech is from? is it from the contracts?

[sage lark]

last MIDA contract

[shadow dove]

thank you

[zealous laurel]

Anything HP related is the enemy

That being said i wonder if Duran Duran will make an appearance in Cryo Archive

[proven copper]

Was that not him talking in the trailer yesterday?

[latent python]

It was

Doesn't mean he will actually appear

[zealous laurel]

No no that was Dodge Durango

(It was I'm doing a bit)

[true isle]

Has any of the codex entries hinted at what might have happened with the phfor? We have compilers, meaning the phfor were atleast aboard the marathon, but tau ceti isnt nuked to oblivion? Im very curious

[latent python]

It sure seems like he won't be opening the doors for us in there

[zealous laurel]

Eyyyy

[sage lark]

there biopsies and redacted reports of the initial attack on the marathon

we dont know why the Spht is here

[latent python]

OG Marathon lore already was a little unclear as to how much damage they did to the colony, clearly in this game it's settled that they didn't glass it

[sage lark]

the nuking afaik was mentioned in M2

which kind of got retconned but not at the same time by Infinity

so it kind of didnt happen

[timber loom]

I dunno how about you, but I am gonna go and ask him

[dreamy hawk]

Nawh, that was Durandana.

[timber loom]

Maybe if I spam "Friendly!" he won't cryo my archive

[latent python]

Excuse me, sir

How are you doing today, that is a lovely cape

It really brings out the green in your orb

[timber loom]

I wonder will the time limit be the same for cryo

25 minutes sounds a little bit constrained

Since there are like what, 7 poi?

[latent python]

I think they said 7 locked doors

[lunar cove]

actually they're going to limit it to a 25 minute window on days with the full moon, in order to encourage player concentration

[timber loom]

I mean, from salvage desc there all the pois from arg

Preservation, Revival, Steerage, etc

[latent python]

That would probably make sense

[dreamy hawk]

No timer. Just death. 💀

[timber loom]

Since there is no easy exfil that might sound as a cool idea

You'll run out of heals and ammo sooner than later

But obviously it is so cheesable devs wont have that

[dreamy hawk]

I imagine not. Even with infinitely, increasingly more difficult mobs spawning that stop dropping loot and exp someone would still manage to cheese it.

[proven copper]

I mean even then you'd run out of backpack space, so there's no real reason to stay in there for hours and hours unless you just feel like it

[silk whale]

Turn it into a Halo firefight, just seeing how many waves of bots you can defeat

[pseudo python]

Hey guys is there a place that has a database of current official lore for marathon? I am confused on a few things and it changes fast.

I also work full time

[zealous laurel]

Oh boy is there ever a database https://marathon.bungie.org/story/

Been cataloging the entirety of Marathon since the first game

Hamish is a God send

[latent python]

Marathon: Reach

[dreamy hawk]

I will never not be interested in a firefight mode.

[pseudo python]

I just looked at the website….good god

[zealous laurel]

As a fellow member of the employed, I send my condolences. There are also links in here to current game like codex entries and such.

[zealous laurel]

Oh yeah 'tis a relic of the pre-AI internet but we love to see it

[latent python]

Pre-AI? Durandal is right there

[pseudo python]

So uh. When can I let bingus?

Pet*

[zealous laurel]

rimshot

[dreamy hawk]

I just want the Archivist title. Do you think work will mind if I take a month off? Is Marathon eligible for FMLA?

[zealous laurel]

That i fear is up to rng and assassins not doming you as they camp a bingus spawn NO I DON'T SPEAK FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND I'M NOT MAD ABOUT IT

[latent python]

I'm so much better at wordplay than gunplay

[pseudo python]

Where are the bingus spawns usually? Or is it just random

[zealous laurel]

Having to file for FMLA (wife's getting surgery) I wish it did

[zealous laurel]

I'm pretty sure there's also a loot guide either here or in one of the other channels

[pseudo python]

Thnx I’ll use my eyes

[zealous laurel]

Those are very helpful in playing marathon

[silk whale]

Honestly I would hope that eventually we'll get some additional Marathon game modes.

[dreamy hawk]

I always hear Bingus but I have yet to see them.

[zealous laurel]

If only for like. Weekend/exhibition kinda things where you can wager loot and stuff for a limited amount of time rather than use it as a constant farming opportunity.

[pseudo python]

I will bring bingus shiny keys so they can play with them. I’m sure a cat ai would appreciate it

[zealous laurel]

Or maybe for like story specific contracts or something!

Just let me kill UESC robots without the fear of getting jumped by a 3 stack bungo

[pseudo python]

What is a 3 stack bungo? Also where can I buy one it sounds delicious

[zealous laurel]

3 stack = full squad of folks

Bungo = Bungie

[lunar cove]

a 3 stack is a group of three players

[latent python]

Cryo and Ranked in one weekend feels like adding modes at a pretty good clip

[lunar cove]

or it could be Andre 3000

[zealous laurel]

Oh for sure

[zealous laurel]

I mean given some of Bungie's past collabs I bet you they could get Andre 3000 for this

If only to play the flute

[latent python]

I'm guessing the next few weeks will be adding mostly stuff like weather

[zealous laurel]

Yeee map variants

[latent python]

I wouldn't expect any more big changes until mid-season in april

[pseudo python]

Where are instruments in marathon? A colony ship would surely have entertainment especially of musical variety.

[zealous laurel]

That's a good question and I'm not sure

[lunar cove]

due to budget constraints they only have a pirated version of FL studio with stock audio

[pseudo python]

Like I know they will have techno stuff but woodwind instruments and drums would surely be built by colonists

[zealous laurel]

Damn not even GarageBand? 😔

[latent python]

What about some kind of MIDA MIDItool

[zealous laurel]

The MIDA MIDItool would just be a particularly loud revolver

[pseudo python]

That or a worm shaped flute

[rapid cave]

Runners being special is understandable, but what about rook. Since the "shell" is a pure robot thats is occupied by a human consciousness. Whats stopping the UESC/Sekiguci from trapping humans into robots (in warframe theres a similar concept where they trapped humans into AIs called cephalons)

[lunar cove]

that seems like a lot of unnecessary budget line items compared to just making the robot

[silk whale]

Yeah like...I have mixed feelings about a PvE only mode, IDK. I just really like the game mechanics, lore, universe, etc... It could be fun to have alternate ways to play.

Like imagine a Halo-style capture the flag match, but with runner shells? It would slap!

[pseudo python]

I don’t think I would want a hero shooter marathon

[zealous laurel]

Yeah!! And I mean there's a faction in-universe that treats runners like athletes so something could be developed, I have no doubt.

[zealous laurel]

Maybe not like Overwatch/Marvel Rivals, sure, but I think there's something to be said about offering variety, even in small doses!

[latent python]

They could absolutely add arena/deathmatch/gambit style modes, eventually

[lunar cove]

they're concerned enough about splitting the playerbase that they're only letting us access 25% of the maps on Leap Year February 29th

I don't think they're gonna broaden it that much

[latent python]

But yeah, the playerbase has to be there first

[zealous laurel]

I think you're right to have those reservations! I also think a strict "available all the time" PvE mode isn't the right like. Solution? But there's gotta be a happy medium, for sure.

[silk whale]

Yeah IDK, like I love the game as-is, but it can be kinda discouraging sometimes feeling behind on the skill gap, which only widens with gear gap.

[latent python]

Fortunately it really seems like it's retaining the players it has, so that's a good sign

[hybrid dawn]

not just the skill gap, but skill disparity within your own team

that is REALLY putting me off

[pseudo python]

What I’m having trouble with is I am bad at shooting but using ability’s and out thinking opponents is where I shine. But it means nothing with a shotgun in my face

[silk whale]

I'm over here just desperately trying to exfil lore items to unlock codes entries and skinners be hunting me lol

[lunar cove]

I love loading in with a blue shield and seeing grey on both teammates tbh

[zealous laurel]

C'est la Arachne

[lunar cove]

thanks for rocking the sponsored Overrun, guess I'll die

[silk whale]

Hey sometimes they both die, you get away, and enjoy a "Solo plus" experience lmao

[zealous laurel]

If it were me I would simply avoid the shotgun (I feel your pain)

[zealous laurel]

Exactlyyyyy

[lunar cove]

on the other hand, running solo with a sponsored kit goes hard

it's like a knife run but I get free depleted health kits

and sometimes I get a free Bully at the end of it if the day's sponsor is good

[latent python]

And sometimes you get a free retaliator if it's arachne

[zealous laurel]

Yeah I still don't understand the appeal of knife runs like there are. Free sponsor kits. You get skins if you exfil with them. Why knife run??

[lunar cove]

spite for the guy trying to loot my 2 stacks of light ammo and overrun at the start of the match

[silk whale]

Yeeaaaah like, sometimes I feel bad like I'm the weak link on a team not being a PvP god, but other times I'm like "Guys come on, can we actually try to complete the contract, or maybe exfil when our bags are full instead of running into trouble trying to find moar betterer loot!"

[latent python]

To not waste the time pulling the retaliator out of your inventory I guess

[zealous laurel]

You know what fair

[lunar cove]

on the other hand

[zealous laurel]

True

[lunar cove]

if it's a knife run, looting their overrun and two stacks is a huge step up in the world

I loaded naked into Dire Marsh and immediately stabbed a triage for his mida sponsored kit

[zealous laurel]

Yeah the greed is strong with some players

[pseudo python]

Hear me out. Energy sword

[latent python]

Right but you could have started with that Mida kit for 0 dollars

[zealous laurel]

(It's me, I'm some players)

[lunar cove]

It was arachne that day

[zealous laurel]

Gravity Hammer when

[pseudo python]

lol

[hybrid dawn]

this + also I dont understand why I get put with people that its their first day with eyes? im like level 45 ish, and I would say im Average at pvp. but my team mates, 80% of the time just cannot see the enemies, dont position, dont hear me say im being pushed, dont come to help, even after im downed, dont come and rez. Its just painful

[latent python]

Oh. Never mind, fully justified

[hybrid dawn]

I think I have to start using LFGs and teaming

[pseudo python]

Also is it just me or is the railgun just a worse crossbow

[eternal shell]

there's a crossbow in marathon?

[pseudo python]

That would be sick for assassin

[silk whale]

I was in the pinwheel last night, we had looted TF out of drone wing, I was like "let's lower the drone lift and bounce," and they're like "no....must try for moarrr," we end up fkn around fighting two rooks, which went okay, but then while looting the rooks (who n my teammate's defense were stacked with goodies), we got jumped by the other remaining team.

Like, y'all, we could have been down the drone lift and exfilled already.

[median hemlock]

being in a party with people you can talk to and do multiple runs with is always better than gambling on randoms, even if your teammates "aren't good" (which is a pretty broad statement anyway) it's a lot easier to work with people you aren't just meeting once and then ditching post run

[zealous laurel]

Ouchies and furthermore oof

[hybrid dawn]

the few times I have ran multiple runs with randoms and teamed up after, they've been amazing

[latent python]

Which is why I'm hoping to find a smaller community server to play with

[eternal shell]

how is railgun a worse crossbow if there's no crossbow

[hybrid dawn]

I think I just have to face anxiety fears and get on with LFGs haha

[pseudo python]

I wish thinking in comparison there is no crossbow

[lunar cove]

Also ngl I think the knife runs can be fun because they push me to the limit of sneaking and scavenging

[silk whale]

Yes! And then, it's like a vetting process of finding players you click with, getting connected, staying connected, and then you'll kinda have some groups you can count on.

[sage lark]

I can imagine 40-50 minutes

[median hemlock]

I get the fear but trust me, there's plenty of people in the same boat, just post some LFG ads and be honest that you're a lil anxious and I'm sure others who get it will hit you up

[silk whale]

I want that sweet sweet cryo archive lore, I wanna see the compiler....! Been stacking blue and purple gear for it...

[robust nebula]

guys is it possible... now hear me out pretty please... i know they cant fully acknowledge certain links in canon lore due to different ownership of IP or whatever.
but
is it possible that the traveller is the marathon?

im hoping some lore expert can wipe that away or confirm that at least its vaguely possible

[silk whale]

ATREIDES! ATREIDES! ATREIDES!

[eternal shell]

bungie owns both destiny and marathon so they can just add the traveller if they want

anyway, no

[sage lark]

Just remember those runs where you go from free kit to blue/purple loot

And you will get over gear fear

[robust nebula]

but like, the cyborgs turned into spartans but they dont own halo anymore. so can that still be canon? like they cant write new spartans in right?

[silk whale]

Zero to hero, baybee

[sage lark]

Wdym turned

[eternal shell]

spartans is halo

[dreamy hawk]

Possible, I guess. The "Bungieverse" is a popular theory, but I personally don't lean that way.

[sage lark]

They used their past works as inspiration

Thats it

Things and ideas overlap

[robust nebula]

but there are marathon references in halo 1 terminals no?

[sage lark]

Where

[dreamy hawk]

Sure, but they're just that.

[robust nebula]

and on the armor descriptions?

[sage lark]

Its just references

[zealous laurel]

Bungie steals from Bungie all the time I'm actually shocked they haven't been sued by Bungie yet

[simple garden]

Spartans themselves are a reference to the Battle of Marathon

[robust nebula]

so they arent considered canon? awww ok

[dreamy hawk]

There are references to their other games like ONI and Myth, too.

[sage lark]

The Covenant is based on the Pfhor

[robust nebula]

but like. what your telling me isthere isnt anything concrete that says they didnt theorycraft it that way?

[dreamy hawk]

Bungie just likes tying all of their stuff together, but that's not usually in a direct 1:1 way, but more in broad ideas/themes.