📚marathon-lore-discussion

[wind quail]

I haven't been to Cryo that often, but is there an explanation for the actual ice you have in some areas?

[sturdy jungle]

the ship got fucked up

so the insulation broke

I believe because of the alien attack

[wind quail]

Now i wonder how the different factions space suits look like. 😄 and if runner shells even breathe.

[sturdy jungle]

1. probably cool
2. I was gonna say no but the entire point of Runners is that they "experience" everything so maybe yeah they do for the sake of realism

[pulsar parrot]

I wonder how much of it is that vs UESC now blowing shit up

[sturdy jungle]

a major theme of cyberpunk is that of transhumanism and "transcending" your humanity, yet even in destiny's lore the Exos needed "unnecessary" vestigal biological functions so they didn't go crazy

[pulsar parrot]

Yes I suppose I should’ve said multipurpose

[wind quail]

Just give me thief in a mean industrial looking Traxus EVA suit. 😄

I mean they're biological, so could be not that space worthy.

[sturdy jungle]

the early experimental exos in destiny that didn't have like, lungs or other internal organs/functions went berserk and basically tore themselves apart because they couldn't mentally cope with the fact that they weren't in their own skin

so they were later designed to be as human-like as possible, and I suspect runner shells to be the same. Sekgen is super advanced as well so it's not out of the realm of possibility they're fully human in function just entirely synthetic.

[dreamy hawk]

A little Cotard’s syndrome never killed anyone.

[sturdy jungle]

I get where you're coming from but they very much killed someone. like i have to stress that they absolutely killed people.

[dreamy hawk]

-# oh I was being a goof

[sturdy jungle]

as was i, referencing that og tumblr post

[dreamy hawk]

I believe there’s some Seki lore from the ARG that goes in to similar.

[pulsar parrot]

yeah my big balls need a dev

[dreamy hawk]

Not 1:1 but enough to think there’s overlap.

[sturdy jungle]

not entirely surprised, it's a pretty common theme in cyberpunk

and bungie is likely to port over similar story beats because I mean they're good so why not

[pulsar parrot]

Yeah I think this is probably the case as to why they’re so “human.” The mental effects of being a runner really needs to be explored more, we’ve gotten little bits but

Like Charter is fucked up

What’s going on there

[sturdy jungle]

there's a lot of rich texture here to draw from especially as Arachne basically worships runners as the perfect killers

glad you asked

[pulsar parrot]

LOL

[sturdy jungle]

as far as I can tell, essentially Arachne worships "sensation" and its cessation - killing as the pinnacle of that. So they slobber over Runners because they're able to keep killing, over and over and over again, because their "souls" aren't ended when they die, yet the sensations are all still there

so to Arachne, Runners are kind of the perfect worshippers/devotees

[pulsar parrot]

Right that makes sense, but what made Charter like that bro, I mean he’s a runner himself

[sturdy jungle]

just a little weirdo freak man idk

we don't have much on them because their prio contract basically was just "wassup we think you're awesome please keep doing what you're doing and we'll give you cool shit"

[pulsar parrot]

Idk man I think he might be like rampant or some shit

Runner rampancy

[sturdy jungle]

can Runners go rampant?

[pulsar parrot]

Can they?

it’s a good question

[sturdy jungle]

I don't know.

[pulsar parrot]

what happens to a runner after dying hundreds of times and losing themselves

[sturdy jungle]

runners aren't "AI" in the sense that they're existing consciousnesses uploaded to the cloud

[pulsar parrot]

Maybe thousands of times

[sturdy jungle]

so rampancy in the granular sense I imagine can't occur since they're already "sentient"

[pulsar parrot]

But they’re a continued consciousness decimated—over, and over, and over. The fragments of which may stay with them, or may not. And we know that they lose recollection of who they are from the cinematic pre-launch. I agree it wouldn’t be the same as rampancy, but something akin to it would make sense

What kind of profound clarity or perspective might a mind get from that experience

If any

[sturdy jungle]

it's an interesting question for sure I just have no idea

[pulsar parrot]

Oh yeah I know

I’m just hypothesizing

[sturdy jungle]

we're sort of leaning more into "are uploaded digital consciousnesses a true continuation of the original self or are they artifical intelligences in the sense of the word"

[pulsar parrot]

Yeah that’s true

[sturdy jungle]

since like, they're originally not artifical

[pulsar parrot]

It’s a weird version of the ship of Theseus in an odd respect lol

[sturdy jungle]

very much so

[pulsar parrot]

I’m just wondering if maybe something happened to charter like that

[sturdy jungle]

but like, the fact that tech has advanced far enough that "runners" and "rampancy" are distinguishable, by the process of elimination and categorization I suppose that Runners can't go rampant because they're already clearly defined as separate things

like CyAc is advanced eenough to upload people right, to where they have complete operationalization of such

and they also run ONI, which is a known AI

so they clearly have metrics to distinguish

thereby implying to me at least that they're categorically different

[pulsar parrot]

I think they are, I agree.

[sturdy jungle]

but again we don't know because charter could either just be a weird little freak or as you say a rampant runner

since we dont have much to work off of lmao

[wind quail]

Just thought about cyberbrain sclerosis in GitS. Maybe something like that but digitally, with a continuously fracturing/refragmenting neural entity, loosing memories, bits of code, getting glitches... bc they're not thesame consciousnesses/ship of Theseus, bc that were boudn to a body/central nervous system...

[pulsar parrot]

But I think there may be a parallel Rampancy is to AI, as

??? Is to Runners

“Runpancy”

[sturdy jungle]

that's a much better line of exploration at least

Cyberpsychosis as cyberpunk2077 puts it

[pulsar parrot]

Yeah I see this

[pulsar parrot]

Yeah it’s similar to that, except I don’t think it’s the same in the sense that cyber psychosis relates to like replacing parts of yourself overwhelmingly, where here I’m more talking about the constant reloading of a consciousness that’s the same yet has experienced possibly thousands of deaths and iterations

[sturdy jungle]

I mean in the pedantic sense are you not also replacing yourself over and over again when you die

[wind quail]

I dont like the concept in Cp2077 tbh bc its like "protheses make you less human/cyberzombie". But can get behind your brain reacts badly to being shelled/emulated as a digital simulacrum

[pulsar parrot]

Well I guess, maybe? If the shell is identical, are you?

[sturdy jungle]

you have to basically reckon with the experience of "cessation" over and over again while remaining sane, like maybe you lose pieces of your sanity every time

[pulsar parrot]

Besides the once, that is I suppose

[sturdy jungle]

right but even if the "shell" is identical (and we know Runners like certain shells and gravitate towards certain ones as identity markers), psychologically you'd experience death in the "same" body over nad over again yet physically be unharmed

I can't imagine you don't start to disassociate after a certain point

[pulsar parrot]

Yeah very true

I think we’re getting at the same point from different angles lol

But yeah I think you would

[sturdy jungle]

absolutely lmao it's just weird since we're discussing this with limited lore but also like philosophy as well as the themes of the genre itself

[pulsar parrot]

I think it just comes less from the body change and more from the cyclical dying

But as you point out, living in the same body time and time again after experiencing injuries that would destroy that body has gotta be bizarre

[pulsar parrot]

I love the phrase digital simulacrum

[wind quail]

Body change follow up i would more see like loosing bodily identity. "this child is me"? But also like the "feel" or yourself, losing/gaining certain habits... in Altered Carbon the character starts smoking bc the sleeve/new body is addicted to nicotine.

[sturdy jungle]

not just bizarre but I imagine actively psychologically damaging

great mindfuck of a chat though

[wind quail]

Would runners gain a kind of dissolving multibody-identity? On the other hand, shells are limited models... if it always feels the same to the the same shells, it maybe the embodid version of multiple personalities. Just one personality, multiple bodies... does not have to be necessarily damaging in my eyes, judt a lot of getting used to.

[sturdy jungle]

very curious to see what they do with Arachne in the future because as cool as the other stuff with the NuCal colony collapse, Traxus Legal Battles, MIDA terrorism, CyAc digital slavery arc, and Sekgen's Weird Shit I think arachne has like the LEAST explained

[wind quail]

If i remember correctly "envoy soldiers" in altered carbon where special bc they were very good to get accustomed to new bodies, worlds, customs, situations super quick.

[sturdy jungle]

I do think the Runners' in universe preference for certain shells is partially a coping mechanism to avoid the mulitbody identity problem

[wind quail]

Or liking having a grappling hook and loot-sight. 😄 or not having to carry so much heals. ^^

[dreamy hawk]

I’m only able to glance cuz I’m at work, so I apologize if I missed something said, but there’s some theories that the SO was going “rampant” in Infinity; I don’t think we have enough to exclude Runners from Rampancy this early.

[dreamy hawk]

Altered Carbon is such a cool universe.

[wind quail]

Honestly also think Arachne has also by far the weakest concept as a death cult thats just like "go... KillKillKill!". Wouldn't really mind if it just came out as an undercover UESC-psyop to get rid of their runner problem/sow disunity as someone proposed around here before.

If i think what i would find interesting,I'd like to have some remaining colonists appear and be it as cryo sleepers soemwhere.

[dreamy hawk]

Arachne will likely get more depth. They’re the only “new” faction without any attached lore or background.

-# yall having exactly the kind of discussion I don’t want to be at work for. 🥲

[wind quail]

Could see MIDA going up against CyberAcme at some points ("Runnah – you have nothing to loose but your place on their server banks – heres our much more instable version...")

[sturdy jungle]

oh yeah we didn't dismiss it out of hand we basically cam e to the conclusion of "idunno, lmao"

[sturdy jungle]

it's not weak at all

it's very philosophically rich

[wind quail]

Not sure about that honestly... well it opens some questions about the state of being a runner/continually dying, but you do not need go full "Psycho Killer – Qu'est-ce que c'est?"-faction to have that strain. That could be a CyberAcme/SekGen factor without loosing much. I mean whats special about Arachne is their quasi-protofascist/social darwinist ideology being enamormed with killing/fighting/death drive... and thats as "banally evil" as the real life iterations of such a mentality ...

But maybe im being biased there/too turned off by the concept and overlook the richer parts, don't know...

[sturdy jungle]

likely the latter. There's a lot to discuss regarding why it is Arachne operates the way it does

I suspect it has something to do with Runners being functionally immortal and the "cessation" experience being a gift to the Runner it's "given" to (as the contract names and lore implies it's viewed by arachne)

there's a lot below the surface to operate with imo

[wind quail]

Possible... What do you suspect there? Or where do you see possible depth/philosophical richness?

[sturdy jungle]

so, specifically that Charter I believe (could be misremembering) idolizes "sensation" and the "cessation" (stopping) of it.

Runners are essentially immortal, so they're able to keep experiencing yet also keep ending others' experiences

lagging a bit sorry I have more than that

[wind quail]

Im in a commuting train, so the same here... wanted to add: Or getting their experience ended themselves... could see runners using a (near) death (experience) as a kind of mind altering drug, yeah – but not the act of killing/violence.

[sturdy jungle]

The philosophical richness of Arachne specifically comes from what it means to worship sensation and cessation in a world where death isn't final. For mortal beings, killing is the ultimate harm because it permanently ends someone's capacity for experience. That's the ethical foundation most western philosophy is built on. Arachne's theology only makes sense in a world where that foundation doesn't apply.

Runners are functionally immortal. They keep experiencing. They keep feeling. And critically, they can keep ending others' experiences temporarily while those others continue existing. Charter idolizing the cessation of sensation isn't nihilism I don't think. It's closer to a very specific aesthetic philosophy about the most intense possible moment, the point where experience stops, being the most valuable one. And Runners are uniquely positioned to give that gift repeatedly without permanent consequence to the recipient.

The quasi-protofascist framing you raise, I think, is worth taking seriously as a surface read but I think it undersells what's actually interesting about it. Real life death drive ideologies are monstrous and we agree they are partly because the death is permanent and involuntary for the victim. Arachne's version operates where neither of those conditions fully applies. The Runner you kill comes back. You've given them the cessation experience Charter considers a gift. Whether they wanted it is a separate question but the harm calculus is different from a real world analogue. imo that's where the depth is. Not in validating killing but in the specific fictional conditions that make Arachne's philosophy harder to dismiss than it should be.

[wind quail]

As we had above its still severe hurt, pain/likely massive trauma accumulating. So... Its not like the ethical foundation diappears because you cn repeat the act with the same person, it rather gets worse. Example from Altered Carbon again, repeated automated torture to the death is not better bc the person returns... as i also wrote in the comment before, i can still get people spiritually idolizing repeated death experiences ("big death as small death") as i understand people getting joy from experiencing pain/bodily extremes, but here its the joy from causing pain not suffering it... and Arachne is not like killing each other all the time to gift that to themselves, so that logically has some holes. Dont find it that hard to dismiss on the raised ethical grounds...

Though I agree the part about "death as not the end" is interesting... would like to look into how especially reincarnation based ethics see that now.

[light python]

Have you not seen severed-on-severed violence?

[sturdy jungle]

i'd argue that even our perspective of "trauma" is flawed in this regard since to a runner you're just.. immortal

always constant neverchanging

so even "injury" in that sense becomes "novel" to eternity

[light python]

The Runners are subject to a system of control. That system of control wants them to experience their existence a certain way. Arachne... is doing something else.

I do not believe that the runners are never changing

All intelligence in the setting changes

repetition is a form of change

that constant change and growth is one of the reasons systems of resetting, obedience matrixes, thought control circuitry, etc are omnipresent

And we know that thousands of destruction/defeats - real, parallel, simulated, whatever - are valuable to both Durandal and his pet jjarro cybernetic junction

[sturdy jungle]

fair points all but I’m speculating so, lmao what can ya do

[sharp vine]

I can relate so much 😭

[wind quail]

What concretely do you mean by that?

[light python]

I mean that Arachne does bring the gift of death to their "own" to the extent that you count runners wearing the "severed" skin as Arachne initiates

"The severed" are described in the skin description as initiates

[wind quail]

Thanks i'll take a look. Wanted to look into "Runner factions"/skin descriptions anyway as were just thinking of founding a kind of small "clan", and maybe make up some fan-lore around that.

[dreamy hawk]

The entries: https://codex.cyberacme.systems/

[light python]

Thanks, that's the kind of helpful I probably should have been.

https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/the-severed

[wind quail]

Thanks. 🙂

[light python]

The other thing - which I can't source exactly, I can't remember where I saw it - is that Arachne, or some version of the religion they represent, first emerged from experiences around cryosleep and is, at this point, plausibly a pretty old religion, or part of a pretty old tradition, anyway.

So to some extent it might be a runner-specific expression or focus of it, but the idea that death has something to offer to those who experience it and then, for whatever reason, continue existing appears to be older than the consciousness-eject mechanism.

[hidden quiver]

Quick question.
what is killing the BoB in this sticker?

thats metal as fuck but also wtf

[earnest hatch]

Anomaly

You can see that guy on diremarsh

[latent python]

His desire for drinkable cheeseburgers

[sick plaza]

Is there anyone looking for a dev?
If you have ideas or are facing difficulties with an ongoing project, please feel free to contact me at any time.

[eternal shell]

yes go ahead and develop me the last number of pi. lmk when it's done. thanks.

[light python]

My report/block trigger is at arachne-inspired levels of sensitivity.

[earnest hatch]

I wonder what’s in those big blue boxes that started appearing on dire marsh. I’ve heard some people say that’s where the rocket drones come from, but I’ve seen the rocket drones drop down from the sky.

[mighty ember]

the funny brain explodey anomaly from dire marsh

[dreamy hawk]

Rooks are inside the boxes.

😂

[torpid thicket]

Rooks are stored in the balls boxes

[dreamy hawk]

-# I should clarify that I was referring to the glitch where Rooks are spawning into them and unable to get out.

[torpid thicket]

That’s fair, I saw the opportunity and took it 😄

[modest bramble]

Runners killing the Compiler should have lore implications for later seasons, the hierarchy power is changing.

[dreamy hawk]

How do you mean?

But also for sure if it was S’buth and not some rando.

[earnest hatch]

I still think it’s a Compiler who was upgraded by the S’pht’kr and came back and then went mad.

I’m hoping we’ll fight regular compilers in Night Marsh, but probably not.

[dreamy hawk]

I’m more in that camp imo.

[quick swift]

mmmh the thing left behind does kinda look like a S’pht’kr

[dreamy hawk]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fthe-original-marathon-art-by-craig-mullins-v0-q5a9haxek22b1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D47cfa5401762e9e3e565791c3db9bd00fbcbf12d

Or 👀

[quick swift]

True

Also very true

[dreamy hawk]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[quick swift]

Leo point gif

[dreamy hawk]

Kinda looks like they went with that concept art for the S’pht possibly.

[dreamy hawk]

@versed adder It’s one of the boxes in the compiler room you have to interact with to fight the compiler.

@earnest hatch has made a compelling case that there’s five S’pht in the room based off the compiler trace, four disembodied, one you fight.

[quick swift]

Indeed

[dreamy hawk]

Just something I think of every time I see that spinal design now.

[quick swift]

That screenshot is mine haha

[dreamy hawk]

-# well you should have said so before I looked silly but now I remember that.

[quick swift]

Haha nah all good. I don't expect everyone to know me

😉 😎

[dreamy hawk]

Generous but I was there 💀

I’m not a very smart man Jenny

[quick swift]

You could have saved yourself just then 🤣

[dreamy hawk]

Nawh. I own my goofs. 🤷 to err is to be human, after all.

[quick swift]

Based

[dreamy hawk]

Careful now; don’t feed my ego too much. I’ve got a similar condition to Langdon Cobb.

[terse wren]

I s’pht at u, u cur

[short blade]

does anyone have pngs of the heal consumables, like specifically pancea kit, advanced shield kit and normal shield kit

[modest bramble]

The UESC tried to kill and/or study The Complier, the fact that Runners were able to do something that they couldn’t accomplish should have ripple effects.

[weak gyro]

The impression I got was that the UESC was sending the same squad in repeatedly, and the Compiler learnt from that, meanwhile runners are unpredictable chaos gremlins, which might've given us an edge?

[primal grove]

So, who’s the main company behind the shells on tciv anyways? All the different factions are benefitting but who is actually getting us the ability to get onto tciv? CyAc?

[weak gyro]

SekGen makes the shells, CyAc I think is handling the software side of things

[lethal mantle]

cyac and presumably sekiguchi

[weak gyro]

Otherwise... not sure, I think we're on a corporate sponsored ship but it's unspecified who or what that's like.

[lethal mantle]

they mention debt to sekiguchi in the reveal cinematic but cyac is who we're canonically indebted to

[primal grove]

That’s my thoughts too, CyAc and SekGen. Some kind of collaboration between the two that seems to be primarily fronted by cyac

[weak gyro]

My guess is that the ship is basically just a matter transporter, a data store of runner minds, and a 3d printer for shells just thrown through the void

[primal grove]

Makes sense

[weak gyro]

No need for creature comforts or living spaces when the passengers are in a computer, get to the destination, print a body, off they go planetside

Shells are disposable but who knows how long a shell "lives" if it doesn't actually get killed in action

[primal grove]

With matter transport technology I honestly haven’t given much thought to the concept of a homebase. Where the shells come from and our consciousness exists outside of shells can literally be anywhere, as long as it has the facilities to make the shells

[primal grove]

I don’t imagine shells have a defined expiry date tbh. It’s mostly plastic and weaveworm silk

[weak gyro]

Yeah, I don't think they have a pre-defined lifespan, more that I suspect their disposability means they might not be designed for a single instance to last without replacement.

Like a shell might have design decisions that work well in the context of a few deployments, but it might have health issues (or at least an approximation of them) if a single shell somehow doesn't get killed. The sorta thing that's acceptable if you expect to die and just get a new shell.

[earnest hatch]

The runners also had big help from durandal as they unlocked each subroutine

[dreamy hawk]

I'd say ish because the colonists also managed to kill compilers and other Pfhor, as evidenced by the codex. Though my ish becomes less important if this is an upgraded Compiler.

[oak sonnet]

hi guys is there anyone kwon where can i get hd factions logo files plz

[modest bramble]

That’s only because the colony had 10 Battleriods, cyborg super soldiers made from human remains.

[sage junco]

random factoid: Marathon 1994 netplay had a limit of 8 players. I guess that makes them 8 out of all 10 battleroids killing each other in the same place?

[glossy magnet]

Futurama mentioned

[visual lynx]

what makes a bot turn neutral? is it lust for compute? electrical power? or was it just trained on a dataset full of neutrality?

[fervent siren]

Bruh can somone tell me this… where are the shells being made

Is there a spaceship in orbit by corpos that just beam us down for missions

[sage lark]

Most likely

[fervent siren]

So on that spaceship theres gantry oni and all the other corpo ais just on server racks chilling?

I thought they dont like each other

And if thats true why isnt the uesc not just attacking where we are printed

[sage lark]

No

The faction representatives are in Sol

[sage lark]

Because it cant attack the corporations

Runners are illegal corpos are not

[fervent siren]

Tau ceti is like 11 light years from sol. If i sent an email to somone to on tau ceti it would take 11 years for it to reach

[sage lark]

Corpos are operating with plausible deniability

[sage lark]

FTL comms

We establish them in the first few contracts

Plus we got there in 5 years

[drifting garnet]

Yea, it very much seems like in the game's current time period, FTL comms are a Thing

and the fact that the trip with the newer ship took relatively faster then the Marathon did suggests FTL tech has gotten better

[fervent siren]

So if data and information is ftl that means our real conciousness is probably still on sol

[sage lark]

Not confirmed

I wouldnt risk beaming my consciousness 11 LY away

[fervent siren]

But its fast enough to communicate on the fly 11 ly away

Why not send programmatic commands of piloting a runner shell the same way

[sage lark]

The transfer of consciousness to the shell is an actual transfer

[drifting garnet]

so for that, it's believed the Runner's consciosness are on a ship orbiting TCIV...somewhere

[fervent siren]

Its all the same data

1 and 0s

[sage lark]

Sigh

[bright berry]

But one of em had pazaz 👐

[quick swift]

You dare S'pht at me? I S'pht at you, sir!

[wind quail]

Finished SekGen lately and got this transmission from their dev Team in the Codex... so there is ansible tech/some kind of FTL comms. Depending on the latency, do runner conciousnesses do have to be on TCIV? Or is that maybe just the printing hardware/equipment.

[visual lynx]

-# if that's really their dev team and not just Nona puppeting several generative avatars

FTL comms are a thing though, hijacking them is one of the first missions

[loud scarab]

I sorta wish this weren't the case - it taking 10 years for the runners to arrive at some server farm above TCIV staging on part of the marathon would be so cool imho

Like it would feel more isolating than them just beaming in from Earth.

[visual lynx]

I think the runners don't just beam in from Earth but had to be shipped to TCIV (FTL but still slow) probably because a whole consciousness is too much data to beam.

it is a good question why the shells aren't just remotely piloted though.

which I initially thought, three years ago, was going to be the setup: we at our screens here on Earth would be role-playing as humans on Earth remotely piloting synthetic avatars 12ly away

[loud scarab]

There's nothing faster than faster than light 😆

[loud scarab]

I'm glad they didn't go this route though. I think this would be less engaging - the fact that you're somehow melding your personality or whatever with the shell and it's like actually you for a min is so cool.

[wind quail]

Would be interesting, the worm taking over the show... could also be other worms though. 😄 do you have some hints for that to be the case?

[sage junco]

it's worms puppeting other worms

[visual lynx]

worms all the way down

[torpid thicket]

Maybe the real friends were the ones the worms made along the way?

Or something like that.

[sage junco]

It's like the human centipede, only the humans are centipedes

[valid nymph]

Do you think there are used Shell salesmen who have like a Shell dealership

[torpid thicket]

“Special offer this week: a Rook shell, one ‘careful’ previous owner!”

[dreamy hawk]

“Spawned in a crate, no body damage!”

[torpid thicket]

Jokes aside, I can imagine that SekGen sees Shells as still being their property regardless of who’s using them after the point of purchase, so their hard/software probably comes installed with some kind of DRM that gets activated / deactivated depending on who those shells have been purchased by or whomever is using (or misusing) them.

The DRM is probably there to prevent a competitor (eg CyAc, NuCal, Traxus) or another faction (eg UESC, MIDA) from getting their hands on SekGen proprietary hardware and/or technology in general, so your Used Shell Salesperson would probably have to be SekGen approved / licensed at least, or a direct employee of SekGen themselves at most.

[earnest hatch]

i think you just hate corpo

[dreamy hawk]

I wonder how much the corporations compete with one another? Afaik we only see them vs the UESC or MIDA, other than I think the thief shell’s lore, there isn’t a lot of corp on corp violence so far.

Or have I forgotten some things?

[torpid thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/correct-plankton-gif-14118231

The corps can burn on the same pyre we’re going to throw UESC onto.

[torpid thicket]

Traxus has their Anti Caution PMCs / Runners, which are probably used for corporate espionage and counterespionage, and CyAc have a similar organisation as well?

[rocky dove]

So canonically is the story of this game kinda the outside view of the story as opposed to the main 90s series of games

Granted for me the og marathons become incomprehensible and extremely hard to follow after a while

But I respect it for that

[modest bramble]

I recall that something similar to the first game happened in this new marathon game.

[sage lark]

Wdym outside view

[rocky dove]

Cuz in the og you're a guy aboard the marathon and you know what went wrong right

But like the outside world doesn't

[sage lark]

Well half right I guess we know what went on the Marathon itself and Lhowon but not the colony

So we are detectives kinda figuring it out

Albeit 100 years later

[rocky dove]

Man the hate is sorta warranted for some things like how they turned marathon into an extract shooter but like there is real thought put behind stuff

Not the hate but like a few critiques are warranted about the game

But like, its really not that bad. Honestly I was positively surprised that they took the story from the old marathons to begin with

tbf I thought it was gonna be some rando apex style extract shooter but there really is some meat here

[sage lark]

I have my own thoughts about the hate brigade on this game

I think the extraction shooter genre is a good medium to tell this kind of story

I concede there are aspects that push away more casual or pve oriented people and hope they iterate on that so we can have a healthier playerbase and have something everyone enjoys

But even right now I think its very good video game

[rocky dove]

yeah nah extract shooters aren't pves

I know it might seem a little, well, you know, coming from a tarkov player

but the bulk of the experience comes from the player interactions

same highs and same lows as tarkov to some degree so I like that

[sage lark]

Idk SPT is fun as hell

I doubt the PVE will be just removing players and fighting bots

[rocky dove]

man I got 1.5k hours in tarkov and I ain't trading the pvp for anything

[dreamy hawk]

I begrudgingly agree.

[sage lark]

I mean hopefully we will see it evolve with the PVE so everyone can experience it

[drifting garnet]

By the way, who's the AI on DM that you occassionaly hear announcements from? AKA the one that will Sometimes say something out of pocket like "this world is poison!"

[earnest hatch]

It’s either Oni or it’s Durandal sneaking messages through Oni channels.

[drifting garnet]

wait what? nonono, not that, I'm talking about the PSA announcements on Dire Marsh. the one I tend to hear a lot at on Algae.

[dreamy hawk]

The masculine voice? I believe it’s just a prerecorded message.

A few of the announcements don’t match to voices we know of if I’m not mistaken. Maybe just a basic administrative software suite or something.

[drifting garnet]

Huh, is it? They're definitely prerecorded messages, but I swear I thought it's supposed to be Darius

[upper elbow]

i always thought it was darius tweaking out

[glad lagoon]

i dont think it's as much prerecorded as prewritten? like there are some lucid lines in there "poison. this place is poison. this place is poison."

[drifting garnet]

Somewhat related note: wooh, sat in on a gold key room run for AI uplink, and got all the remaining Cerebral Records I needed in one fell swoop!

[turbid nebula]

Even non-AI computers talk a lot in Marathon.

[drifting garnet]

...and I think someone mentioned in here the implication that Icarus, due to him being up in the satellites, might potentially have been far enough away from the Contagion and Anomaly to have not gone rampant like Darius did?

[turbid nebula]

You can see this in the prologue in the manual for the first game. There is also a codex entry I listened to last night where Reed is dictating an email to his wife back home or something, and he has a small vocal interaction with the computer beforehand.

The weird thing is non-AI computers tend to use english and other noises to communicate with each other as well.

A lot of the jingles you hear in the game are implied to be short encoded messages

[drifting garnet]

I know in a different (formerly) Bungie franchise in Halo, there are "dumb" and "smart" AIs

The former, while pretty advanced, are limited in functionality and are really good at their designated task. The latter are supposed to be closer to humans in their ability for creativity and improvisation like Cortana.

[sharp vine]

Still wondering about this - I could see the UESC being one of Arachnae’s indirect sponsors.

[sharp vine]

They all just playing UNO with Orion while they are making the runners work against one another (just kidding)

[sharp vine]

Used destroyer! With in vintage mean green style and a refurbished gold visor!

[pure wagon]

I always thought it was a dumb system that the anomaly brushed against and gave it moments of seemingly sentient lucidity where it was able to temporarily truly grasp the extent of the horrors which unfolded before it

Or it’s Durandal having a laugh with a prank

🤷‍♂️

[keen plank]

That's one of the colony AI subroutines. They're not full characters but they make announcements every now and then.

Sometimes the messages are weird. Like "No one can hear us. Despite our screams."

[eager bough]

are those messages maybe the anomoly/dead colonist speaking through the ai by chance?

[unreal slate]

Assert: Cheeseburger

[earnest hatch]

Assault Cheeseburger

That's the new weapon in season 2.

[wintry crow]

does it take drinkable cheeseburgers as ammo?

[unreal slate]

UESC regularly calls in a repair bot to come in and fix the cheeseburger fountain at select points of interest

[thorny moss]

can we expect the medbot to go rampant?

[craggy finch]

It should

Triage throws dozens of them away in a single run

they need to unionise

[north shell]

What happened to the artifacts that they talked about before the game’s release?

[eternal knoll]

got subsumed by various other systems i spose

golds? the anomaly event? idk

[modest bramble]

My Codex is currently as of season one 265/455.

[blissful gorge]

Is nobody gonna talk about how good the codex voice logs and music of this game are like wtf I was not expecting it to be incredibly good

[drifting garnet]

meanwhile, gets Shared Nightmare Phenomenology 4/5

Joy: "Yeah, so I've been getting the shared nightmares too."

Well...SHIT.

then again even the first NuCal Priorities reinforced this, but otherwise, yeah more being added to the pile on how all the Weird Shit on TCIV is affecting the AIs too

[modest bramble]

Does anyone say “See you starside?

[eternal knoll]

me sometimes

[modest bramble]

Is it a Bungie a thing?

[keen plank]

Not exclusively.

[visual lynx]

I can't recall hearing it anywhere before the Bobs in M2

[bright berry]

Yeah, it originated in the original MARATHON games as far as Bungie goes

[drifting garnet]

meanwhile, finally runs Cryo for the first time

…oh yeah, the insides of the Marathon is a fusion of the new art style together with the old

Right down to recreating the old game’s labyrinthian level design

I do not have a hard time picturing a theoretical remake version of SecOfficer running around, putting bullet holes in the Pfhor with his MA75

[sage junco]

I genuinely don't feel that Cryo evokes the original game, but heaps of people do, so it's probably just me mis-recalling it

Still a blast to run however

[craggy finch]

I'd love to see more adaptations of Craig Mullin's artwork in other sections of the Marathon
https://marathon.bungie.org/story/CM_history.html

A lot of the textures for the maps really shined in his stuff

I also didnt really care for the Lh'owon setting in the next two games, the Marathon and the human-centered narrative in the first game was the most engaging for me

[sage junco]

I'd just be happy if they re-used some of the old sounds effects. Maybe they did and I'm just oblivious

[craggy finch]

Before Cryo Archive, there were terminals that played the exact same "ding" sound from the original when they lit up

[sage junco]

Yeah, like that!

[craggy finch]

I soyjacked when the original terminal graphic popped up at the end of Durandal's Cryo Archive cutscene

after it came out the terminals have been non-functioning since

since those were teasers for Durandal's messages/the ARG to build up CA

[eternal knoll]

hopin they turn back on in season 2...

hope durandal drops the act a little

[wind quail]

These are great, even for early art... Mullins is now one of the best concept illustrators worldwide. Too bad his page seems to be down, loved looking around there.

[craggy finch]

Apparently these were made before he was hired by Bungie

high quality fanart

[wind quail]

Goodbrush.com was online until last year. Wonder if he took it down due to ai crawling the stuff.

[wise plank]

by coincidence i read the emotional support plushie #1 log and then surveillance recordings 5/5 and its so sad man 😭

[plucky sierra]

Just wait till emotional support plushie 4 and 5

[vagrant plank]

I want to live on Tau Ceti, even though its a doomed existence.

[vestal onyx]

Tau Ceti mfs be like "what's the move?"

Brother, you live in Dire Marsh, there is no move

[earnest hatch]

To give a more serious answer, I think most colonists actually lived in a location called the Hearth. Dire Marsh was more of a work district for research and study.

[stable arrow]

Dire marsh and perimeter were outskirts research districts for experiments and information gathering right? And outpost was primarily a popup headquarters for uesc?

[potent pollen]

yeah, as i understand it the outpost we see is just the first of many outposts launched off of the marathon that served as forward operating bases to develop the other zones before transitioning to regional UESC bases and processing/manufacturing points

colonists would be defrosted in waves and sent through orientation to get their bearings before living at the outpost dorms until their permanent dwellings were ready, i think

[vagrant plank]

My understanding is that NuCal used this place(Dire) to study the infection and it got out or was released on purpose.. is that right ?

[sage lark]

The colonists studied it there but the contagion was spreading outside already

Im not sure it ever “got out”

[long pollen]

i personally cant wait to go through the anomaly into lhowon

wink wink

[pure glen]

There’s plenty of indication in the codex and in map details of contagions spreading all across the zones. In dorms on Outpost, we see that same white fuzz/fungus that is seen in Quarantine. And logs indicate major sicknesses and quarantine medical facilities in Perimeter as they push geo data through the relays

[earnest hatch]

If only. The aliens levels were my favorite in the Marathon games, even the first one I thought the alien ship levels were the most interesting.

[long pollen]

even had the alien gun. the compiler boss is awesome
but imagine fighting a hunter

[earnest hatch]

A super charged Hunter… or a big old Juggernaut.

They’d probably go with a Juggernaut boss battle first would be my guess. Less animation and it makes immediate sense.

[long pollen]

would be such a good fight

they might have to work their way up to juggernauts

[grand kayak]

i just went through the cryo personal pike logs and now im creeped out by durandal

[quick swift]

https://tenor.com/view/cacodemon-my-beloved-gif-23577087

[modest bramble]

Was it ever revealed how the AIs are made, is it different from Halo?

[keen plank]

They’re likely made similarly. Remember, before the story universe was split, Cortana was going to be made off Durandal’s source code.

[sharp vine]

It is pretty when you take time to look at the scenery…

I would say to stop and smell the roses but…the plant life is trying to kill you

[sharp vine]

This I’ve never heard before but it sounds pretty cool :3

[tranquil basin]

I doubt it considering the amount of hardware marathon AIs seem to need. I don’t think anything suggests they’re mapped from human brain models

[sly verge]

Every time I play Outpost I want to listen to the museum exhibits but I’m too scared

[glacial juniper]

open pinwheel yourself then go to orientation and listen in peace

[keen plank]

You can ROOK as well. No risk.

[jade wagon]

real