📚marathon-lore-discussion

[dreamy hawk]

I apologize for being dense. 😅

[burnt nebula]

sliding in water should remove the plant toxin

[digital plaza]

Yes, the only thing that connects those is that they both are fungi or something. Contagion is a long term process that has many effects on its hosts body and in the end turn you into some mushrooms/grey fungi stuff. That plant is just gameplay feature/TCIV native plant that mutated to kill humans

[dreamy hawk]

Cool. Same page, then. Sorry it took me a second to catch up and thank you for clarifying. 🙏

[deep solar]

Strauss just showed up in the Audio Log I unlocked for welcome packages 👀

[dreamy hawk]

Community Message Board has a nice tinge of horror to it.

||//…recovering file… [TITLE:] Acclimation Mind-Body Harmony Session [MESSAGE:] The Colony Intake Team has organized a series of wellness activities to help combat the effects of acclimation sickness. In this session, your Community liaison will guide you through mind and body exercises to help ease any lingering effects of cryothaw.
//…recovering file… ERROR!FILE CORRUPTED …xf.// [TITLE] NO [MESSAGE'~efx:::] HELP something is wrong still cold can't seERROR! still asleep i'm not alone in here it's in the pod with me in my head NOT ALONE ERROR!FILECORRUPTED||

[lethal gust]

YO boys how close are we to cryo arc?

[digital plaza]

https://marathon.winnower.garden/cryoarchive

[wise vortex]

Why is every weapon like a bullpup

[dreamy hawk]

SHRINK WRAPPED BONSAI RECORDING: GRIEF INTERVENTION is just more emotional damage from Joy. Be warned.

[wise vortex]

an lmg's standard ammo capacity is around 100 or 60 atleast. why is it only 44 in marathon? that's not nearly enough for sustained supressive fire

[dreamy hawk]

Because bullpup cool.

[north plank]

it's a game

[north plank]

it doesn't have to be realistic

[wise vortex]

and you're in the lore channel

[wise vortex]

and you're in the lore channel

[north plank]

and you're talking about what the supposedly normal LMG capacity is/why everything is like a bullpup in a sci-fi universe that doesn't have to stick to normal conventions

[wise vortex]

yes but everything has a reasoning

[north plank]

because cool. that's why.

[twin trout]

the gimmick of lmgs in this game is the shield, not the ammo capacity

[eternal shell]

i'm reminded that every single pulse rifle in destiny are bullpups

for reasons

[wise vortex]

so in universe

LMGs are more of a riot control weapon

[digital plaza]

No

[wise vortex]

i also never noticed the lmgs having a shield

[digital plaza]

Bungie loves something/thinks its cool - add to the game

[wise vortex]

is it even useful?

wrong message sry

[eternal shell]

yes, it absorbs bullets

not sure how to recharge it but

[digital plaza]

With good positioning yes

Very much so

[wise vortex]

so its really an exagerrated belt fed assault rifle with a shield attached to it

[twin trout]

you get to shoot people while crouched/peeking above cover and basically take no dmg in return so yeah

[digital plaza]

I guess?

Didnt play enough with lmgs to say something otherwise

[deep solar]

Big gun = cool, don’t think too hard about it

[north plank]

this.

[north plank]

how would it be a riot control weapon?

genuinely don't understand the point they're trying to make

[deep solar]

If a video game has a big gun/sword im gonna main it

[dreamy hawk]

THE SEVERED TWINS - LOG: CIVILIAN INTERROGATION is 🧑‍🍳💋

[final oxide]

https://youtu.be/sYanpq8b-vE Byyyyyf~

[twin trout]

the only line of thinking I can see bringing someone to that conclusion is something about riot shields but I don't know why they'd apply that to a gun x3

[north plank]

I don't understand it either; they do totally different things

[wise vortex]

its just a game brow

[tawny pagoda]

Riot control? Yeah they mention that UESC was killing civilians on Mars

[wise vortex]

yes thats why

i brought it up

looks like a very effective "massacaring civillians without getting damaged" weapon for the uesc

[tawny pagoda]

Also the use of the two shells like Recon and Destroyer, they still use Destroyer

[drifting mulch]

definitely has to do with balancing if you take reload speed + damage to kill as factors. with blue mods you can get up to 90

[final oxide]

Using the clankers on civilians is such overkill

[tawny pagoda]

Its just like an extension of irl

[final oxide]

Do they? I thought Destro was outlawed before the current events of Marathon.

[tawny pagoda]

Ima pull it up one sec

[digital plaza]

Stop being so toxic about it

[wise vortex]

he started it

saying its a game in the lore channel ffs

[north plank]

we were merely having a discussion

nothing wrong with that

[wise vortex]

no we werent you were shutting me down

[digital plaza]

Bruhhh

[north plank]

is that what you genuinely think that was?

[wise vortex]

what else could it be?

[tawny pagoda]

Yes its been discontinued

HISTORY: DESTROYERS are products of the UESC's Combat Science Labs [CSL]. They were first designed for aggressive conflict resolution scenarios but were banned from official military use with the passage of the Consequence of Violence amendment in 2879.

However

Though official UESC statements condone the use of DESTROYER SHELLS, rumors suggest they have been deployed in clandestine operations against RUNNER activities across Sol.

[wise vortex]

i asked a question you said "its just a game bro" "it doesnt have to be realistic" i never said anything about realistic and we're in the lore channel

[north plank]

having a discussion

in the lore channel

about applying real world metrics and knowledge to something that is very much not of this world

[wise vortex]

it doesnt mean things cant abide basic common sense

[north plank]

as you like to keep reminding me?

why are you trying to pick a fight

[wise vortex]

so let's delete the lore channel and explain everything with it being a game then

[north plank]

now you're being dramatic.

[wise vortex]

im gonna end the discussion here before it gets dramatic

[digital plaza]

Do they? I got the impression that robots were banned back in Sol, we even see human soldiers in the MIDA cutscene

[final oxide]

So illegal, but used anyway 'cause UESC don't gotta follow its own laws. Rules for thee kinda thing lol

[dreamy hawk]

General rule is that if something is illegal the UESC is explicitly doing it behind the back of the public, imo.

[north plank]

cool. you do that.

[wise vortex]

are there innies?

other than mida

an earth based innie

[final oxide]

Now I'm wondering how the hecc the player Runner got a military-grade Shell like the Destroyer. It's like rolling up to your mercenary gig in a modern Military tank. Not impossible, but hella impressive.

[dreamy hawk]

Innies?

[inland crypt]

The UESC fought off the covenant for you guys to complain about them smh

[tawny pagoda]

The triage shell existing bc of terrible conditions and them dying too fast is kinda crazy
(Traxus working with UESC and SekGen)

[digital plaza]

Whats innie

[tawny pagoda]

My friend misread UNSC once haha

[dreamy hawk]

You can get your hands on anything if you’re bankrolled by a corp.

Second general assumption.

[tawny pagoda]

Severance mention

[digital plaza]

Blackmarket

[final oxide]

...Fair. Not like we're working above the law anyway lol

[digital plaza]

There even a group of ex UESC spec ops that use destroyer shell

[final oxide]

Yeah, the CyberRed folks.

[north plank]

I always thought it was just given to you by Sekiguchi/CyAc

[final oxide]

But there you know at least they just took their equipment with them

[inland crypt]

I halo post in this chat heavily

[north plank]

Like Sekiguchi/CyAc goes to you with a menu and just says "pick one"

[final oxide]

I doubt it, CyAc runs/makes our OS and SekGen made the Shell itself, but no corpo is going to give stuff out for free. We likely got our Shells the same way we got anything else, either buying or yoinking it off someone else.

[digital plaza]

Well if theres one group with destroyer shells other 100% got them too

Not like cyber red is the only ex UESC soldiers

[north plank]

they will if it keeps the Runner in debt.

[dreamy hawk]

They’re not “giving” anything. They’re gonna take all your stuff as soon as the season ends.

[final oxide]

CyAc owns our brains and souls xD

[north plank]

"here's a shell now work to pay it off"

[final oxide]

They don't need to TRY to keep us in debt. Every reboot digs that hole deeper.

[north plank]

I wonder how they're going to try and rationalize the whole reboot/wipe thing

[final oxide]

Ehh, they don't really need to

[wise vortex]

how expensive are shells

[final oxide]

Diablo's been doing it for ages lol

[dreamy hawk]

Literally the corps collecting your debts. I believe that’s how it was in the beta.

[terse shard]

Hope they have a full accounting list of all the stuff they take from me on reset

[tawny pagoda]

Vandal shell being made by Mida after stealing a bunch of UESC shells is neat

[inland crypt]

our shell for the season goes rampant?

[dreamy hawk]

ONI tells you as much at the offset, too.

[terse shard]

I wanna know how much I was worth™ for the season

[north plank]

this would actually be really cool

like the debt system from Hardspace Shipbreaker

[inland crypt]

It just makes me wonder how the story advances without a central character, like what are we beyond brain waves. In destiny we had a real tangible character with the guardian but here idk man

Like I am trying to get the mastery assassin skin as my "canonical shell"

[dreamy hawk]

The codex will carry forward, you’re not going to forget anything, I don’t think. They’re not going to make us play the same quests season to season. I’m fairly sure of that.

[digital plaza]

Unclear, some speculate of off "like a trillion bucks" phrase that shells do cost trillion credits

[final oxide]

It's kinda like an MMO story, really. You're not always the MAIN character, stuff sometimes happens around you and as mercenaries, it's hard to make us a protag or antagonistic person.

[north plank]

So it's just the corps taking all our stuff?

[inland crypt]

That i get, but what I mean is that characters drive the story but who are we as characters really, brain waves? How do we as an individual impact this world

[dreamy hawk]

Yeah. She says it’s up to the execs to decide when your debts are settled and alludes to taking regular payments from us. I don’t remember the exact verbiage.

[final oxide]

"Payments at regular intervals" as ONI put it.

[north plank]

So every 3 months the debt is considered "paid" and we just... go again?

[final oxide]

We're mercenaries, at our silken bones.

Sometimes ya gotta rebuild from scratch.

[north plank]

So we literally do this shit for the love of the game?

(and to earn credits)

[zealous laurel]

That's the neat part - we don't! (This is somewhat facetious but I figure the Runners will gain more prominence in the story as we connect to Durandal and uncover more of the secrets from the Marathon; currently though, we're run of the mill mercs who don't have a bunch of power in the story as yet)

[dreamy hawk]

Oh I’m positive that’s going to be explored. Maybe not the characters’ exact motives - Bungie likes blank protagonists you can put yourself into - but “what does it mean to be alive,” “what’s the difference between ai and a digitized mind,” “what is a soul,” and I’m sure more will be in the table.

[final oxide]

"Escape will make me God." lol

[digital plaza]

WE ARE PLAYER/DESTINY/GOD/NOBODY

[terse steppe]

What does Durandal mean by this quote from the ARG? "When old age shall this generation waste thou shalt remain"

[zealous laurel]

I mean there's a skin that I think says some people treat runners like athletes and running as a sport more than a dangerous profession so yeah kinda

[digital plaza]

Individual impact is your contract progression, more you do more you impact the world

[final oxide]

Plus every Mercenary dreams of that one big score, the one that frees them of their debts and forever lets them retire. So we roll the dice with every... single... run.

[dreamy hawk]

You do it because you essentially sold your soul to a corporation for supposed immortality which isn’t guaranteed or understood and they’re telling you to do it.

[north plank]

I got that part.

[dreamy hawk]

And I only say essentially because they didn’t pay you. 😂

[final oxide]

Like, why do we Run, besides my Arachne folks? We do it because we want Purple and Gold items, more credits, shinier upgrades.

[digital plaza]

For money, but Cyac will collect the debt every now and then until its paid

But since its a game the debt is endless...

[wise vortex]

DDRDRTDRERTTYU.

[final oxide]

It's also not a lot of fun if the game suddenly ends lol

[drifting mulch]

i still believe at least some runners were forced into it. i've only just found 1 of these just now off a commander but it is compelling to think we weren't all professional mercenaries prior to becoming a runner
https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/evidence-folder?directory=World,Perimeter&search=evidence
In "Leaked PR Campaign"

If you are asked about the allegations of illegal buying and selling of personality and thought data, decline to answer, citing an unwillingness to give an uninformed opinion.

[abstract thicket]

I think it would be cool if Bungie dropped an emblem for those who played the alpha…just saying

[dreamy hawk]

Oh 10000%. I’d bet an organ, easy.

[final oxide]

Oh I'm 100% sure some folks got strong-armed into it, especially by folks like Traxus.

[drifting mulch]

your conviction is noted lol

[final oxide]

And ONI, as much as we appreciate her soft nature and support... but she is NOT our friend. CyAc isn't at all.

[inland crypt]

I think we wont get a ton of rampant with AIs since then the novelty of it that made Durrendal cool wear off quickly

[final oxide]

^

[dreamy hawk]

[2] from the RUNNER's targeted ZONE of interest.
Essentially, when a RUNNER's SHELL is met with either catastrophic systems failure or sudden data or signal corruption, the RUNNER's mind is ejected into a secure liminal buffer before the SHELL's neural housing is fully compromised. Most secure buffers run on one of CYAC's looping data systems to record and catalog a backup of the RUNNER's consciousness as an added failsafe against total neural erasure. This gives CYAC ownership over, at least, a portion of a RUNNER's consciousness, if not the whole thing.

[final oxide]

The AIs on Dire Marsh going mad is already a lot

[final oxide]

Ye, they're our data storage, but not our friends lol

[bleak oar]

I haven't progressed super far yet, is there any evidence of Durandal remaining? Or Tycho?

[inland crypt]

Yeah Julius or something like that, its gonna be only him and probably won't even be that rampant

[dreamy hawk]

He’d also try to off them.

[north plank]

this is VERY interesting.

[final oxide]

Oh he's been following us in-game during the ARG puzzles. He's watching the whole thing lol

[inland crypt]

Durendall for sure since he talks to us in the arg

[final oxide]

And voiced by Ben Starr lol

[bleak oar]

oh baby, I am so stoked to progress and see where we are with everything

[inland crypt]

Theyre probably saving Tycho for another season

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think Tycho is present, right now. (Why: #📚marathon-lore-discussion message)

[north plank]

"Everything runs on CyAc, or nothing runs at all."

More like "EveryONE runs on CyAc" in a way

[final oxide]

Like, even if ONI herself doesn't want to see us suffer, we don't want to misinterprate her "Positive affirmations" for compassion.

[north plank]

reminds me a lot of NieR Automata and how they deal with consciousness/dying

[final oxide]

And the other Factions sure as HECC don't care about us xD

[craggy finch]

She’s literally your bondsman for the massive debt you’re in

[rotund stump]

are people really saying any of the liaisons and people we know have any affection for us lmao

actually delusional

sorry for sounding cynical but 💀 💀

[final oxide]

Not anyone I've seen, more just making a point lol

[north plank]

no? we quite literally said the opposite

[rotund stump]

like dawg I'm still seeing people making excuses for nona dripping poison in our ears LOL

[craggy finch]

Sekiguchi and Arachne are the most transparently detached

[final oxide]

I don't trust the damn worm.

[rotund stump]

never trust the damn worm

[wise vortex]

2

[north plank]

absolutely.

[craggy finch]

MIDA basically treats you as a mercenary

[final oxide]

She's more than happy to poison you and run your shell until it unravels while whispering sweet nothings. In the end, you're a guinea pig for data collection.

[craggy finch]

NuCaloric probably operates on a vague sense of mutual duty, since Gaius frequently appeals to helping humanity as a whole

[final oxide]

If you die, that's just unfortunate data.

[craggy finch]

Traxus is the most straightforward about how youre basically dirt to them

[rotund stump]

quite literally no one cares about you but fellow runners if they so choose and even that constitutes as neural disruption in oni's eyes so

le shrug

[dreamy hawk]

A mutual duty to ensure they have customers to sell to.

[rotund stump]

toxic altruism we call that narcissism 💀

[feral rune]

The compilers in M1 were absolutely pathetic enemies. do you all think that Durandel figured out how to modify their cybernetics so that they're enhanced far beyond their original forms? it would explain why they're so powerful they warrant an acheivement for killing one.

[north plank]

"you are a temporary asset. you're not even part of the company. you mean nothing to us but you bring us shiny things occasionally. fuck you" type shit

[rotund stump]

"you HAVE to let me help you"

[craggy finch]

Imagine humanity goes extinct and the NuCaloric AI sadly have to shut down the company because they go bankrupt

[final oxide]

^ Consumer is the product.

[rotund stump]

well

[final oxide]

Not the food.

[rotund stump]

any company would go bankrupt when we go extinct

who else is running the show lmao

[north plank]

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE

[final oxide]

Ya'll read the last Drinkable Burger lore entry?

[rotund stump]

and no not even getting exposed for putting shit in our burgerslop's enough

[final oxide]

I'm never touching those dang things as food lol

[dreamy hawk]

That was also against a cyborg. We’re much squishier baseline, and much more susceptible to them it seems, at least based off what I’ve read from Orion.

[craggy finch]

I’m so fucking pissed off, last night I was running the timer down with a DCON contract and I stuck the drinkable cheeseburger thing in there thinking it would transfer to inventory

FUCK

[final oxide]

Oh, no, that d-cons it to the factions... xD

[rotund stump]

more like the status quo tips hugely in the compiler's favor now that we're disposable and extremely fragile

[feral rune]

Yeah, but I mean damage output. the compilers were NOT worthy of all the hype in m1. they've gotta be enhanced by now

[wise vortex]

5555';;]

[craggy finch]

Traxus getting actual slop and wondering what they’re even supposed to do with it

[rotund stump]

mjolnirs were massively buff and more akin to warhammer's marines, we're just artificial bodies with a suppressed consciousness and a gun

[final oxide]

It's been 100 years-ish since Marathon's original setting. I'd put money on Durandel and the Sph't getting some new tech in that time, assuming they're still buddy-buddy.

[digital plaza]

SO was a beast, now we just little guys in a disposable shells, i think we will have much harder time with them now

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t think so; I think they’ll be plenty strong against shells, especially with the codex entries available.

[north plank]

Traxus probably have the gourmet shit like the steak from The Matrix

[final oxide]

They ARE one of the biggest Corpos lol

[craggy finch]

In lore terms the SO’s shields would have been standard issue UESC security equipment and could take quite a beating in gameplay, meanwhile Runners have shields that can’t even take tenth of that damage

[rotund stump]

SO can tramp a warden + reinforcements with ease let alone a compiler, us runners take an average of 5 whole minutes just gunning one down without any of the extras

[final oxide]

My bigger question on the Compilers?

[craggy finch]

Bungie also made the story choice to have shields represent health as a whole: any hit that breaks the SO’s shields kills him instantly

[wise vortex]

i can easily kill a warden i dont get the issuee byhy rth waydfyg

[final oxide]

WHY are they hostile? We allied with them to take care of the Phor by this point.

[wise vortex]

Whos we

[dreamy hawk]

#📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[wise vortex]

we arent the SO

[craggy finch]

We don’t know if they’re even the same ones Durandal freed

[final oxide]

No, but humanity in general.

[dreamy hawk]

Also this.

[dreamy hawk]

Oh then the comment link I shared.

[rotund stump]

can't blame anyone or thing lashing out at its supposed captors especially when we come in with guns lol

[final oxide]

So you guys think they could be the 11th Clan?

The ones who left during the civil war

[wise vortex]

6

[craggy finch]

No these ones have the Pfhor compiler design

S’pht’Kr have distinct platforms

[rotund stump]

it's not like the entirety of the s'pht species is a massive neural hivemind evident by the s'pht'kr's absence

[rotund stump]

nona's getting mad if you don't sleep soon

[final oxide]

...Ahhh, good point, "Compiler" was a recent-ish development. Good point.

[wise vortex]

Shouldnt nona be a moth if she nursed the weaveworms

[rotund stump]

well

you can ask nona herself 💀

[craggy finch]

We know that only the S’pht on the scout ship that Durandal took over were freed, the majority were still enslaved across Marathon 2 but rose up when the S’pht’Kr returned

[rotund stump]

mhm

[bleak oar]

I am wondering where the other 9 cyborgs are that were aboard the Marathon, were they all destroyed other than The Security Officer? Is Mjolnir Recon #54 still alive?

[final oxide]

But if we took out the Phor with said freed S'pht, why would there still be ones enslaved by a missing captor?

Unless WE trapped them there, on the Marathon, but that doesn't line up with the timeline.

[dreamy hawk]

Abducted by the P’fhor, I assume. Along with the SO.

[rotund stump]

every mjolnir excluding SO's deployed to the colony for planetside retaliation in the invasion and they helped a lot in the grand scheme of things

didn't help that they got nuked tho 💀

but that's the original timeline

[craggy finch]

Either Durandal didn’t free them in this timeline, these are different, or they have their own reasons to be hostile towards Runners and presumably UESC

[final oxide]

Sci-fi solution to everything: NUKES

Works in Battletech lore, works here lol

[dreamy hawk]

Infinity retconned that if I recall correctly.

[rotund stump]

how big of a hole would it had been if we look at it from orbit lol

[rotund stump]

yeah that's why I said original 😭

[craggy finch]

In terminals that’s the Pfhor approach to everything; first thing they do is nuke the colony space port then we learn their other solution is to nuke the entire solar system

[rotund stump]

evident by us literally being on an unnuked colony

[final oxide]

We need to kill clankers faster so we can get some answers.

[dreamy hawk]

I think only the space port was nuked in M1 so it could still be canonical. But I’m not leaning that way.

[craggy finch]

I’m hoping we get a map with a massive crater

[rotund stump]

spaceport is still trashed yeah

anything before M2's a fixed point in time afaik

colony's not nuked by spaceport's ruined still

[dreamy hawk]

Also my reading 80s sci-fi currently is a good reminder that nukes come in all sorts of yields and some are very clean.

[final oxide]

So it's 2 and Infinity that is kinda wishy-washy in cannon, then

[craggy finch]

It’s fucking nuts that the number is plausibly canon as well, so the UESC is 3D printing half a million robots and the Runners are just tearing through them to access the Marathon

[dusk siren]

I was in game and nothing was going on, came out and it says <ACTIVE> 815 Players
<OUT> 0 Players

What's happening in 1 minute?

[dreamy hawk]

Imagine all the minis you could print.

[craggy finch]

Most fiction that actually uses nukes tends to deal with tactical nukes yields that are comparable to Fat Man and Little Boy rather than the thermonuclear types

[final oxide]

What's even more nuts? We're not counting how many Runners are getting slaughtered in this process. We're just refusing to stop reloading lol

[dreamy hawk]

A lot of recycling going on Tau Ceti.

More than the Jjaro ever knew how to do. >.>

[craggy finch]

I died at least a dozen times doing the last level 10+ Traxus quest and was flabbergasted that Vulcan was impressed by my “approach”

[bleak oar]

yes I'd assume we are at the timeline that ended in the W'rkncacnter being sealed in the sun, unless it's another strange timeline which would be even more interesting and fun in itself

[final oxide]

Battletech uses REALLY big ones, but those're the "We want this planet to become inhospitable, not a military target."

[craggy finch]

Bruv I deliberately ran headfirst into the exact same trap you told me to run into dozens of times and died until I bruteforced it

[final oxide]

They respect the sledgehammer approach.

[dreamy hawk]

You can carve valleys with a drop of water.

[rotund stump]

we're definitely in a timeline that lived but didn't SO suck the wrkncacnter in a blackhole emitted from a jjaro station?

[craggy finch]

UESC just watching this moron fall for the same trap so they just leave it in the same place for me to slam into

[final oxide]

...Wait, the Wrkn-thingy got off the Sun?

[dreamy hawk]

It did but the Jjaro station was used to collapse it back.

[eternal shell]

nah if it manages to free itself, it's game over

[bleak oar]

I know they had their special device, not super sure on the details

[dreamy hawk]

It only got out a peak.

[craggy finch]

The only timeline that can survive is the one where it’s sealed even after the trih xeem was used

[dreamy hawk]

Which also puts the Cyborgs with the P’fhor and leaves everything pretty unclear as to the events of M1.

[craggy finch]

The trih xeem almost releases it but the SO turns on the Jjaro gravity station in time to seal it

[final oxide]

"Go back to sleep!" lol

[dreamy hawk]

As far as creative room, it gives Bungie a lot of breadth.

[craggy finch]

A very Master Chief manoeuvre

Stopping galaxy ending threats with seconds to spare

By pressing a button

[final oxide]

Finally looking at Bungie's full timeline of games?

[narrow jungle]

Do we know how earth / mars look as of now? Whats the technological gap between the already "high scifi" technology on tau ceti and the years that passed? Is the marathon antique?

[dreamy hawk]

😭

[final oxide]

Marathon, Halo and Destiny all line-up REALLY well lol

[eternal shell]

nah, master chief did a security officer maneuver

[dreamy hawk]

Bungieverse 😂

[final oxide]

They have a theme they enjoy lol

[bleak oar]

it took what 300 years to reach it's destination, so I would think at least somewhat

[craggy finch]

SO, Durandal, and Tycho are essentially the blueprints for MC, Cortana (with a lot of Leela), and Guilty Spark

[tranquil basin]

It’s antique to some extent. Ftl wasn’t a thing on the marathon, biosynth stuff was nowhere near what it is now, etc.

[final oxide]

Durandel and the SO are like Chief and Cortana, yeah, and our Guardian and our Ghost in Destiny also resembles the original idea.

[narrow jungle]

Yea since its literally centuries since the whole event; and now we are using "hundred of years old" technology that can be scavenged on the colony, but also from "nowadays" UESC models

[rotund stump]

if julia comes anywhere close to writing the pfhor approaching earth I'm gonna start giggling like a child cuz holy shit imagine the stakes

[craggy finch]

Always a warrior with a helmet and an AI companion

I am Roland

Beowulf

[final oxide]

"The lady in my head calls me studmuffin."

[dreamy hawk]

I see this ending incredibly poorly for the UESC, especially since in this timeline Durandal doesn’t seem to have shown the same affinity to humanity as he did in previous ones.

[craggy finch]

Fuck yeah Pfhor invasion of Earth would be hype

The battle between the colonists of the Marathon and Pfhor is one of my favourite background events

[final oxide]

Bungie has a lot of room to expand the maps and areas for Marathon, like Helldivers has been doing lately.

[rotund stump]

well yeah durandal did retain his disdain for humanity post-thoth merge 💀

[final oxide]

Mars, Earth, other ships, etc.

[rotund stump]

but I do think in his interest for us runners he'll fuck up the pfhor regardless

[narrow jungle]

iirc since the whole "event" and the shells its give or take 90 years and for 90 years a lot of the things are in pristine shape / or way too delapidated; we have some 100 year old non maintained things irl and some stuff can look better than we find in game, but some stuff ingame is just flatout more decayed etc

[craggy finch]

The Pfhor also have casual FTL tech, so introducing them would be a game changer

[rotund stump]

we're an experiment to be facilitated in a way

[craggy finch]

I handwave it as being maintained by the same things that somehow put up vent grates after the end of every run

[final oxide]

"Can we raise humanity above its origins and have them become like me? Like an AI, via the Shells and Digital brains? Hmm..."

[rotund stump]

"you bugs are NOT touching my experiments"

[final oxide]

We're too much of a time investment now lol

[narrow jungle]

My personal headcanon is that its like on dire but "less" the relicts of the maintenance AI, but I found no official reason for pristine states, other than direct mentioning of atonomous units on dire marsh

[final oxide]

Again, it isn't compassion.

[craggy finch]

True there’s a lot of emphasis on the time dilation aspect

[dreamy hawk]

There a log that mentions automated processes in Dire Marsh still maintaining certain areas. I don’t think it’s entirely implausible to assume that there’s some level of automation keeping things more clean, along with great advances in materials science.

[rotund stump]

just the fact that we're in it to breach cryo and are eventually lining up to kill a compiler's kinda sparking his interest already lol

does make me wonder if durandal in this timeline befriended the s'pht as a whole at all or not

cuz no way he lets us kill one

[final oxide]

It's very possible he put them there just as a test FOR us.

[craggy finch]

Durandal has a soft spot for dumb cyborgs with guns mindlessly following objectives

[dreamy hawk]

He’s not against using things as pawns. He’s very Machiavellian.

[rotund stump]

that or his narcissism allows it if it means we have more value to them

[final oxide]

Let's see how this new breed of human handles a Compiler.

[rotund stump]

yeah

[narrow jungle]

I agree with this; but I sometimes fail to believe its truly been 90 years considering even with advanced stuff youd have some general wear, even the UV embrittlement from tau cetis star. In the marathon trailer I think they showed a very convincing passing of time

[olive cypress]

saw some people speculating railguns are a dedicated compiler killer

[dreamy hawk]

I don’t disagree with the complaint entirely either. I’m wondering if we might see some areas that have faired worse over time?

[fossil zodiac]

Cryo has me eager but also nervous lol. Feels like we’re gonna be in for a tough time, even if that goes without saying.

[final oxide]

I mean... that'd be a good start.

[dreamy hawk]

They better be useful for something.

[narrow jungle]

Hope so too. Outpost is doing a great job showing the brutal decay, and the broken relay on perimeter. For Dire we have lore why its pristine

[dreamy hawk]

• I’m betting on more questions than answers this early on.

[craggy finch]

These compilers are also much bigger, so they may not be a 1-to-1 translation of the original enemy type, maybe it’s even the Mother of All Compilers

[final oxide]

Could they go invisible before?

[dreamy hawk]

Are they?

[dreamy hawk]

Yes.

[tranquil basin]

Yes

[final oxide]

Mkay, so that's not new.

[tranquil basin]

Some

[craggy finch]

They’re not that much taller than the SO in artwork and sprites, while the cover art shows one at least ten times bigger than the Runners

[narrow jungle]

I can give them some of my C code and the compilers would just explode on their own; but jokes aside from the image on cryo they look fairly tall

[final oxide]

One of us is gonna take a shot at a cloaking mirage, expecting an Assassin... and we're going to piss off a Compiler lol

[dreamy hawk]

Given how inconsistent all of the renderings of just the SO were, I’d keep the salt handy.

[dreamy hawk]

That could also just be a play on perspective; make it loom over them for effect.

[final oxide]

Even the one in the cinematic is REALLY big.

[craggy finch]

Compilers are all about code, the launch music video also implied they fucked up Triage’s mind really badly, so they’re probably also a threat to the Runners’ very consciousness

[fossil zodiac]

I’m betting on multiple teams probably banding together to stay alive.

[olive cypress]

Its mostl;y metal under the cape so I wonder if compilers can just build different sized bodies?

[narrow jungle]

Potentially a new type of damage? Or we need antivirus packs for better protection

[dreamy hawk]

They do the same to Orion in one of his logs.

[olive cypress]

they better be like that thing from stalker that would fuck with the camera

[craggy finch]

M1 and M2 compilers have different designs while the S’pht’Kr ride around in little bubble platforms

[dreamy hawk]

Antivirus for sure. That’s how they got Leela.

[final oxide]

Oh 100%. We're a digital brain, they're a cybernetic entities and if the UESC themselves can neuro-lock or delete our digital selves? I have no doubt the S'pht can absolutey unravel us at the core, digital level.

[fossil zodiac]

Controllers

[narrow jungle]

They seem to be fairly inconsistent in design anyway

[fossil zodiac]

Our consciousness is definitely not gonna be okay lol.

[craggy finch]

The only constant is that they’re essentially brains hooked to a chassis

[dreamy hawk]

I believe their cloaks were previously cloaks, but now they’re biological in nature, for example.

[final oxide]

I do at least trust ONI to try and yank us before the Compiler can pick us apart, but... I dunno if she's strong enough to fight them off.

[dreamy hawk]

Nawh. That’s why they keep a backup.

Buy bye. 👋

[olive cypress]

If this is true shells are totally s'phit lol

[narrow jungle]

Yeah and that they work fundamentally diffrent digital "methods" wise; as we know their cyberwarfare was incredibly potent.
I would assume that while the UESC uses fairly common attacks, like the data corruption or interception the Spht compilers could do exotic types of attacks, or interesting debuffs, definitly fuck with the senses and maybe even weapons

[final oxide]

Like the cultists say in the logs... we're essentially fighting wizards and demi-gods.

Their tech is so far above our own.

[fossil zodiac]

We’re just dime a dozen mercs

😭

[final oxide]

But we're sure as hell gonna give it our best shot lol

[olive cypress]

trillion dollar killing machine btw

[dreamy hawk]

Perfect beings engineered by gods.

[olive cypress]

and thats before fees and taxes

[final oxide]

...That IS a good point, though. Runners weren't a thing before. We're cheap, but we ARE a new player on the board.

[dreamy hawk]

Don’t forget the mandatory gratuity.

[narrow jungle]

And yet the aliens still find our AGI interesting and steal it for probing

[fossil zodiac]

We need multiple Destroyers unloading missiles.

[dreamy hawk]

The P’fhor did not have AI.

They’re like the covenant in that regard.

[narrow jungle]

Yeah wich is interesting because they were on a comparatively high technological level

[narrow jungle]

Its the bungie formula I guess

[dreamy hawk]

Eh. Like the covenant, too, they scavenged Jjaro tech and destroyed what they couldn’t figure out. They weren’t advanced so much as they had advanced technology at their disposal.

[final oxide]

When you're running on that edge of godhood

Why create an AI? You can do it yourself

[narrow jungle]

Like the marathon incident; they got repelled and then came back to kick us in the butt for sure

[dreamy hawk]

The P’fhor are slavers and technological scavengers. And they have a boring religion.

[eternal shell]

correction, a pathetically boring religion

[fossil zodiac]

Just make other species do stuff for you

[dreamy hawk]

Apologies. 💯

[olive cypress]

do we ever see a jjaro in classic marathon?

[final oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1357811781594120303/1484023348148043867/image.png?ex=69bcb7f2&is=69bb6672&hm=19af41edcd1952f16424fcbbc7d96a6d51f29b930f34df1992e6dadc33a3d009

...Huh...

[narrow jungle]

I guess the Phor are more or less a MacGuffin alltho not quiiiteee that irrelevant

[final oxide]

Like Halo's Forerunners were for the longest time.

[dreamy hawk]

Pathways would be the closest and that was Clinton who got that honor.

[fossil zodiac]

Man that other ship that’s a year or two out is gonna get there and be like wtf happened?

[dreamy hawk]

Nawh I’d call them a MacGuffin.

[narrow jungle]

elite ball knowledge

[fossil zodiac]

Correct me if I’m wrong, and that will very well be the case, but is it safe to say a totally new timeline is playing out?

[final oxide]

Also can we talk abot HOW GOOD Bungie has managed to revive a 30-year old lore and breathe new life into it? Like I haven't chewed on a lore setting like this in a long time lol

[olive cypress]

thats why pathways is dubius to me, if that was a jjaro contacting earth they surely would have showed up again by now. If pathways has to be canon tho its very very obvious all human cybernetics are jjaro derived in my opinion

[craggy finch]

Bungie loves their alien race of presumably advanced tech that is just scavenged from something unfathomably beyond them (Pfhor, Covenant, Fallen)

[eternal shell]

either a new timeline or the one at the end of marathon infinity as far as i've understood it

[narrow jungle]

I would say a kind of mishmash resulting in a diffrent but familiar one; not as "totally new" as the ones in marathon infinite imo

[craggy finch]

The best part for me is that this is all lore from the very first game that was seemingly abandoned from Marathon 2 onward

MIDA and the UESC were only ever relevant in M1

[final oxide]

Oh, really? They seem like such essential building blocks to the setting.

[dreamy hawk]

One theory, credit to Pfhorrest, is that they did, they built Tau Ceti IV (explains the anomaly Tycho can’t explain) and stuck the Dreaming God in it as a custom built prison.

[narrow jungle]

Right now im just giving this marathon title the "blank card" treatment and see what bungie can conjure; of course the nods to the old ones are obvious; hell even the destroyer is flat out looking like the sec guard

[craggy finch]

M2 onward is more “in the moment” regarding Durandal and the history of the S’pht

[final oxide]

Ahhhh... less on humanity itself.

[eternal shell]

marathon 2 and infinity takes place far away from tau ceti and earth

[dreamy hawk]

Also it’s heavily implied the SO had Jjaro cybernetics.

[eternal shell]

well outside their spheres of influence

[olive cypress]

It is genuinly impressive and honestly the reason im even here. For some reason I got the impression bungie was retconning all the old stuff but its been really fun to see that its just been expanded on and we have just as many gaps to fill between old marathon and now as we do with the current story.

[narrow jungle]

And infinity takes place like what; 7 times? (like in 7 timelines)

[dreamy hawk]

But the Jjaro left their tech laying around on just about every moon.

[eternal shell]

yea something like that

[dreamy hawk]

That are seen/played. there could be more.

[narrow jungle]

A bit like DOOM where the whole series still can be made to appear fresh even tho its one of the first 3d shooters ever

[craggy finch]

Combat Evolved even adapted the story beat of human soldiers being stranded on a distant alien world while ridiculously outnumbered (which was the situation of the SO and the BoBs)

[final oxide]

And all of this, all this amazing lore and world-building... stuck to an EXTRACTION shooter that unto-itself is a lot of fun to play. Another lightning in a bottle catch for Bungie, imo.

[olive cypress]

kinda like doom as well the way theyre going "and all that other stuff still happened but the story is somewhere else now"

[narrow jungle]

Oh yea id love some lore on HOW connected the halo and marathon universe are; I know the easiest one is TRAXUS wich is nearly identical in both series

[final oxide]

Modern Doom is a good comparison, ye.

[austere meadow]

Has anyone else heard or seen a cat on the Perimeter map? I saw it in the tunnels between the station and the south relay, but it disappeared immediately

[eternal shell]

that's bingus :D

[final oxide]

[craggy finch]

The chaotic cinematics and codex based lore is a nice adaptation of how 99% of Marathon’s story is told through text, having a more “Hollywood” style like later Halo/Destiny would not fit the atmosphere of Marathon

[narrow jungle]

the other one that comes to mind would be wolfenstein, those 3 are the typical 90s 3d shooter with some fresh breath and still reasonably captive lore

[craggy finch]

Everything in Marathon is a mystery, that’s the conceit of the franchise

[final oxide]

I love the theory that Bingus is just Durandel wandering around in a Felini unit.

[narrow jungle]

Another big thing of the series I feel is that "the more you answer questions the faster new ones pop up". You essentially do private eye work as a shell and it just exposes SO much more than you originally asked

[final oxide]

Bungie is good at that, Destiny is famous for it lol

[olive cypress]

I think it was jake the alright made the example that classic marathon was as much of an experiment in gaming as making an extraction shooter is now given it was chasing og doom's success. The games have always just been a platter for bungie to serve their world building and they happen to be good game designers as well.

[craggy finch]

I like the implication of Runners initially being in it for monetary gain, only to get sucked into the mystery and develop a desire to enter the Marathon for answers (which Durandal implies is the motivation when you track down his terminals)

[final oxide]

I mean... we DO want answers. xD

[craggy finch]

Yeah it reflects the players themselves

[narrow jungle]

Yea we kinda NEED them

[craggy finch]

Projected into the characters that we embody

[eternal shell]

"i don't need to make rent, i need answers"
oni: "uhhh you kinda do need to make rent"

[final oxide]

You don't walk the liminal spaces of Tau Ceti's barren colony and not wonder what the hell happened, even as you're picking its bones clean.

[craggy finch]

Brother youre 1 trillion dollars in debt stop wasting these bodies

[eternal shell]

"rent does not exist"
"rent very much does exist"

[craggy finch]

It’s also canonical that most Runenrs will just fucking die

[narrow jungle]

Do we have other corpses of colonists aside the exploded one on dire marsh?

[craggy finch]

Every single cinematic emphasises how many times shells get wrecked

[craggy finch]

Dr Song is assimilated into the fungus

[final oxide]

^

[narrow jungle]

Oh I havent seen her in game yet, maybe just blind or fought at the time

[olive cypress]

I think that its supposed to be a subtle erasure of the 4th wall. I think Existing in real life and then booting up a match of marathon isnt far off from what a runner would be experiencing in their reality in game

[eternal shell]

she blends in pretty well

[final oxide]

And like Byf said in his recent vid, whatever caused Tau Ceti to suddenly become so hostile and toxic to the colonists happened AFTER the Phor and Compiler attack on the Marathon.

[eternal shell]

you've definitely ran past her

[final oxide]

So we have a massive gap in the timeline of what went down.

[craggy finch]

The implied memory loss also means Runners are just cyphers with no real identity

[eternal shell]

i bet it's a pfhor bioweapon run amok

[craggy finch]

They are detached minds that jump into disposable characters

[final oxide]

I think we were human at one point, but we're certainly not anymore lol

The real us is likely long dead.

[eternal shell]

the real us probably agreed to having a digital copy of them made for uhhh purposes

and they just went "lol k"

[narrow jungle]

the fungus 100% is not "natural"

[final oxide]

^

[deep solar]

My wife pointed out Gantry is doing the “you got any games on ur phone” pose

[craggy finch]

The invasion was actually covered up since the colony didn’t experience the total carnage the Marathon itself suffered and the Pfhor nuking mentioned in M2 never happened

[final oxide]

Like Dr. Song said, it mutates, it waits. It's weaponized.

[craggy finch]

The colony only falls in the 2800s, decades after the first invasion on 2794

[craggy finch]

Just a little guy

[eternal shell]

where in m2 was the nuking mentioned

[craggy finch]

Both Durandal and Tycho talk about it

[final oxide]

Huh... so we think the colony was just colatoral to the battle on the Marathon itself?

[narrow jungle]

I also wondered if thats not why the farm worker in the trailer died; they DO wear sealed space suits so they are shielded to outside hazards, but we find numerous xray scans of people with "growths" in them and many mentions about people mysteriously falling ill

[final oxide]

Tau Ceti's pathogen, ye.

[olive cypress]

it definitely needs to be acknowledged time is absolutely fucked around tc4 or there are multiple parallel universes existing. Idk the implications yet but its pretty clear.

[final oxide]

Waves at the Marsh Anomaly lol

[craggy finch]

The Pfhor were noted to be focusing most of their forces on the Marathon and the colony had nine cyborgs (each equivalent to the same Security Officer that massacred the Pfhor on the Marathon and their own ship) defending it so the surface invaders never stood a chance

[final oxide]

Oooffff lol

...Question is, where are they at now?

[olive cypress]

If there are parralel universes I wonder If there is a kind of quantum element where the shell is seeing a different reality every run.

[narrow jungle]

Isnt that one because of the workcatheter

[craggy finch]

In some timelines they got nuked

[final oxide]

Where is ANYBODY? xD

[craggy finch]

In others they got captured by the Pfhor

[craggy finch]

The biggest mystery for me is how the New Cascadia government handled nine sleeper agent killer cyborgs suddenly manifesting

Because all evidence of aliens is redacted

[final oxide]

If the Pfhor have something to wrestle down 9 player-equivalent Cyborgs...

[olive cypress]

They got killed by multiple things multiple times, we are definite not on the original tau ceti

[final oxide]

Considering SO was a one-man army

[craggy finch]

They either just blasted them from orbit or Tycho helped capture them

[sterile seal]

I wonder if they're gonna go full fungus zombie if that's to well trod a trope given Halo and Last of Us.

[craggy finch]

Durandal and Tycho can just capture the Security Officer by teleporting him

[final oxide]

Perimeter mentions them being in the tunnels, so they laid the seeds for it.

[craggy finch]

They could do the same to the other cyborgs

[olive cypress]

cant wait to fight a cyborg at some point

[final oxide]

Truuuue.

[narrow jungle]

I dont wanna :(

[craggy finch]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention they’re officially classified as Mjolnir Mark IV cyborgs

[eternal shell]

if we fight a battleroid it's gonna be so one-sided

[peak halo]

In one of the mida quest intels you find out that the marathon crew didn't include any defenses against alien attacks? because it was extremely unlikely, and wasting resources on it would have had negative consequences for the colony. Something that was objectively true but came back to bite them. Tough.

[sterile seal]

Love the one simple trick that teleporting cyborgs basically lets you hire them to your side.

[digital plaza]

Pfhor didnt invade the colony, only orbitally bombarded it and attacked the marathon

[craggy finch]

Tycho literally just sends you into space and Durandal is the only one that stopped you from dying

[final oxide]

Not like the Colony had a lot of anti-orbital threats.

[olive cypress]

I think battleroids are more similar to shells than cyborgs given how important they are to sakiguchi specifically

[narrow jungle]

They also poisoned it / anomaly'd it and just watched from afar. There wasnt really a strong effort from their side

[craggy finch]

The final log refers to a ground invasion being defeated by the Mjolnir

[digital plaza]

They were terrified and exiled them https://youtu.be/ANeIbVEyHK8

[craggy finch]

I believe the progression was from altering human corpses to the artificially created biomata

[final oxide]

^ correct.

[digital plaza]

There is no confirmation nor hint that Pfhor did that

[deep solar]

Battleroids are probably the precursors to shells/biomata. but more powerful because they’re manufactured traditionally rather than printed if I had to guess

[sterile seal]

The TCIV teleporters feel a lot less efficient than those we see in the trilogy, maybe the Marathon had a very effective teleportation grid?

[final oxide]

I'd be SHOCKED if NuCal and Sekgen weren't both involved wiht the Battleroids

[narrow jungle]

The fungus / pathogen

[olive cypress]

Do we know if cyborg is just in the middle or a whole different thing??

[sterile seal]

And seemed to be built around scavenged Jjaro tech

[peak halo]

I have my problems with the runners narratively but they are far more interesting than customizable robot cyborgs would have been

[digital plaza]

Which one? If its M1 log then it may be a diffrenet timeline, in numarathon we got nothing on the ground invasion at all

[narrow jungle]

I wouldnt call 7 orbital impactors a big "effort" from an interstellar slaver empire

[craggy finch]

Yeah there’s the possibility the Mjolnir aren’t Battleroids and are just successors, but Battleroids are the only frame of reference we have for how pre-biomata cyborgs were made

[final oxide]

We're built to be cheap and expendable, so much that they built Triage to STOP us from dying so much xD

[digital plaza]

Yes, no confirmation nor hint that Pfhor did that

[final oxide]

It ain't natural

[craggy finch]

Yeah the final M1 log

[narrow jungle]

It happened during the attack after they came back from being repelled by the marathon crew

[craggy finch]

The xenobiopsy logs also imply there were alien corpses taken from the field

[narrow jungle]

And the "alien alloy"

[digital plaza]

No?

[deep solar]

My Destroyer shell and my (totally legal) auto sear have a lot in common, both started as filament

[digital plaza]

Where are you getting this

[narrow jungle]

the actual timeline of the game

[craggy finch]

Item logs

There’s an online codex as well

[digital plaza]

Link please

[narrow jungle]

unlock in game

plus google

2794 was was the initial attack of the colony

[digital plaza]

There were no second attack in this timeline

[craggy finch]

https://t.co/dTBbpA9Gnh

[narrow jungle]

there absolutly was coming from the trailers of the game and the online timeline in the marathon 2025 docs

[sterile seal]

I wonder if Thermopylae and Icarus were built on caches of Jjaro tech given that's where the Battleroids were seemingly developed independently of one another.

[craggy finch]

This is the specific codex entry for the Pfhor and S’pht autopsies
https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/xenobiopsy?search=Xeno

[narrow jungle]

oh we can post links? nice

[craggy finch]

Or the UESC just had those parts lying around and decided to use them to experiment

[olive cypress]

wasnt the trih xeem supposed to be a fungus during dvelopment or something like that

[craggy finch]

I think it was just a Lh’owon thing

The Flood is essentially an amalgamation of the scrapped fungus zombies and the existential threat of the Wrkncacnter lmao

[narrow jungle]

the flood appears to be quite smart in comparison to what attacks the colony so far

[olive cypress]

Still I think bungie is trying to use an idea they made for the old games but couldnt make work for their story

[sterile seal]

There was a map in M2 that was locked down due to an airborne virus, which was originally supposed to be the fungus and have unique enemies. It was simplified and you instead only fight enemies with airtight armor there.

Distinct from the early nova device in both iterations.

[narrow jungle]

this; occams razor

[olive cypress]

I think im wrong then if it wasnt ever that important

[peak halo]

Marathon has a very unique and original story despite playing on classic tropes. So it's funny that they're called "battleroids."

[sterile seal]

I imagine the Flood must've been part of the Halo concept all the way back when it was to be a Marathon sequel.

[narrow jungle]

I guess they are quite roided from what we can do as SO

[craggy finch]

That’s why I maintain that Combat Evolved ended up as a condensed retelling of the Marathon Trilogy: the battle of the Marathon is condensed to the first level, the quest on Lh’owon and discovery of an alien AI makes up the first half of your exploration on Halo, then the Flood reflect the threat of the Wrkncactner from Infinity

[narrow jungle]

Or if it isnt a condensed retelling its at the very least like a hardcore inspired / imprinted one

[olive cypress]

it is funny that sometimes bungie will tell the same story but in a different font

[narrow jungle]

Man to be fair im all for it, im snorting the lore

[sterile seal]

I wonder if the ring was meant to be originally Jjaro in origin, though I don't think the fungus virus plot point was originally meant to be linked with them.

[narrow jungle]

I mean; UESC / UNSC is kind of the exact same thing yet im hyped to find out more about the UESC

[craggy finch]

Forerunners originally being humans also reflects theories of the Jjaro

[sterile seal]

So Bill Clinton was once part of the Halo story.

[narrow jungle]

Well indirectly

yea

[craggy finch]

UNSC is essentially an entire Colonial Marines homage, the UESC feels more fleshed out as a government because it was written as a background element only explored through text

[sterile seal]

I wonder if the Cortana Letters are canon to the new game lol

given we've got Joyeuse in both Halo and Marathon now

[narrow jungle]

Yea thats fair; the UNSC also appears to be more uh "traditionally mindset" military scifi goverment, while the UESC is flat out interstellar* force and they even just fuckin ransack the phor system

[craggy finch]

The bridge between the swords Cortana and Durandal

[sterile seal]

I imagine the letters must've been written at the point in time where Cortana was supposed to go rampant after being plugged into the ring's computers.

True Marathon fans play Halo 1 on Mac

[narrow jungle]

and then we have destiny aswell; straight up the same named ship manus celler dei

[craggy finch]

Marathon also explored the vastness of space and the logistics nightmare of colonial life, with Mars suffering famines because these massive supply ships were limited and often broke down.

Halo uses its government as a means to an end to tell a space opera war story, so most things like interstellar travel are jut conveniences while other forms of technologically are still rooted in 20th century design for a specific aesthetic.

Meanwhile we see the UESC progress into a fully automated force of printed robots

[narrow jungle]

Hell thats even like current issues; where maintenance of certain super important logistical nodes can mean that people starve

[sterile seal]

It's funny how MIDA and the Innies are so similar but the latter are from the novels that Bungie didn't even really engage with

[narrow jungle]

And while the UNSC has their questionable ethics, the UESC straight up tries new warcrime machines on "humans" (well runners but duh human consciousness and all that)

[craggy finch]

Essentially Halo never really engages with that side of things because it never really needed to for its story

[narrow jungle]

Yea it just focused on the fancy aspects and the immortal hero trope

[craggy finch]

It’s a story where the dudes from Aliens and green cyborgs fight the Predators

[digital plaza]

Reveal cinematic show only the first attack (marathon boarding and orbital bombardment), then 18 years later contagion (presumably) hit the colony, and 15 more years later anomaly started to appear. In the entire codex there is no mention of the second attack on the colony, if im somehow missing it then please link it so i could read it

[narrow jungle]

Okay to be fair the old marathons are also the immortal hero trop / everlasting hero

[narrow jungle]

https://marathongame.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline

[craggy finch]

Yeah although much more mythological in its presentation

[digital plaza]

From the marathon attack yes

[craggy finch]

I am Roland

[zealous laurel]

looks at the halo novels um. are we. sure?

[craggy finch]

Not to the same extent as Marathon

The actual technology is a means to an end to tell a narrative

[zealous laurel]

Okay that i can concede, yeah

[craggy finch]

While Marathon explores those aspects of space colonisation in and of themselves

In M1 at least

[narrow jungle]

Marathon also focuses a lot on social decay of smaller groupings of people, while still mentioning some huge disasters such as the big climate disasters; where some of the refugees applied to be marathon crew (in game log)

[craggy finch]

Marathon 2 became much more space opera

[olive cypress]

halo also placed those things in the context of war and strategy that marathon probably wont

[craggy finch]

But also in a way that has to pay homage to modern war stories, so it’s presentation can’t really get too high concept

[narrow jungle]

I like to say that halo focuses on war and its theaters while marathon focuses on a battle and its beligerents

[digital plaza]

You do know that its a different timeline than what we are currently playing, right? Colony was not nuked and people lived for couple decades more before contagion and the anomaly started

[craggy finch]

Like the UNSC space battles are essentially massive WW2 naval engagements

[olive cypress]

I dont think time is linear or supposed to make sense just yet

[digital plaza]

There is no mention of any second attack in the entire codex

[fossil zodiac]

Isn’t it also true that Durandal never did any of the stuff that occurred in the first Marathon?

I’m probably wrong

Just spitballing

[dreamy hawk]

I’m chiming in late but this is significantly underplaying the absolutely evil things the UNSC, and especially ONI, got up to. 😂 ONI literally experimented on people with the flood.

[craggy finch]

A lot of events from M1 are alluded to, even the green BoBs having to strip naked because the simulacrums wear green overalls

[digital plaza]

Uuh im not super knowledgeable on that so idk

[dreamy hawk]

Depends on what you mean by “any,” but a lot would not have happened.

[craggy finch]

It’s all in presentation really, the UNSC HAVE to be the “good guys” because it’s a “RAH RAH FIGHT THE ALIENS” Colonial Marines homage while the UESC has always been morally dubious

[teal whale]

Guys go to #leaderboard ⁠leaderboard and join Mem_Corrupt!!! we need 1k more people!!!

[dreamy hawk]

Iirc he took Boomer with the S’pht and that’s about it.

[narrow jungle]

I mean yeaaaa the spartan program itself is shady and done by abducting children they arent as good as they make out to be, but the UESC just flat out doesnt give a shit and they even tell you via ingame logs that should the colony misbehave they will just engage people

[dreamy hawk]

Abducting children and replacing them with clones that will die very quickly.

[craggy finch]

Halo just never takes the time to actually go into that with the games themselves

[narrow jungle]

or nuking your own citizens potato potato

[dreamy hawk]

UNSC fought a whole civil war for the same reasons, too.

[craggy finch]

ONI really should have been the post Halo 3 antagonists

They’ve done too much fucked up shit to just let it peter out

[fossil zodiac]

UESC also says it’s okay to sacrifice people just because.

[narrow jungle]

But yea as mentioned this is like "side" lore in halo while its a significant focal point in marathon

[dreamy hawk]

To that point I don’t disagree.

[digital plaza]

I meant for the confirmation of second attack not the codex itself xd

[craggy finch]

Halo really wants you to ignore that the government youre fighting on behalf of turned your player character into a cyborg killer from childhood because they wanted to kill space secessionists and the aliens were convenient timing

[sterile seal]

Given we're a Mjolnir Mark V in Halo, I wonder what Bungie originally had in mind for the Master Chief's origins.

[narrow jungle]

the timeline doesnt say its for any specific one itself; its the one thats currently the most prominent from what I can read

But again, marathon has MANY timelines

and time itself is just strange

[craggy finch]

I think there was some confusion; I agree that the nuking never happened but there was still likely surface fighting during the M1 era attack

[sterile seal]

I really hope we do get to see a glassed zone in the future, would be a cool environment

[craggy finch]

At the very least I hope the space port was nuked; that’s the first thing you read about what’s happening on the surface

[narrow jungle]

I kind of like that tbh because you get to see a lot of the halo universe from a propaganda perspective wich is just so fitting (a bit like helldivers) etc. You are SUPPOSED to ignore all the issues because the UNSC is what gave you life

[twin trout]

or how in halo reach you're playing as the temu variant of the spartan 2s whose debut mission was all 300 who were deployed being killed aside from 2 who were both traumatised <w<

[sterile seal]

the Outpost airfield certainly isn't a spaceport right, seems to be used to dispatch the drop ships and that's it

[craggy finch]

I think that level of self awareness just wasn’t really there in the original games because it’s a war of extinction and the focus was on depicting a space opera centred on the creations of the Forerunners

[narrow jungle]

Yea its mentioned in game that its just a "fancy welcome center" for the space guys and used as a logistics hub

[digital plaza]

Thing is, we get multiple points of view and confirmations on the marathon attack and the bombardment, but no mention of any ground attack whatsoever

[craggy finch]

It’s also apparently just one of many

[drifting mulch]

the Halo video games are successful, purposeful US military propaganda so you can't really make the UNSC crimes against humanity a focal point. the books dive deep into the warcrimey part

[sterile seal]

the pinwheels remind me of the space elevators in Halo, just with teleporters

[craggy finch]

It’s funny how a lot of the UNSC are also Australians and Australian special forces are notorious for war crimes

[drifting mulch]

i think it was the Halo Reach or ODST trailer you can read a bunch of comments said they joined the military cause of Halo lol (it makes sense tho, it looks cool as hell)

[fossil zodiac]

There’s also a possibility that the damage done to the marathon may not have been deliberate, possibly being the unfortunate object in the way of asteroids passing through.

[sterile seal]

I feel like Spartan Ops and Halo 5 are the closest the games themselves get to exploring the darker side of UNSC

[narrow jungle]

https://marathongame.fandom.com/wiki/Tau_Ceti_IV this one has some decent detail on the attacks, the ground attack seems to be the poisoning with the contagion and psychological warfare. In game we also see a lot of AI shanenigans and odd events / behavioral changes

[olive cypress]

except halo 5 ignored its own arg and wasted that plot point

[sterile seal]

oh and the Infinite multiplayer story was gonna do seedy ONI shit but that of course got canned

[narrow jungle]

idk what it is but the pinwheel faintly reminds me of a kind of oversized satisfactory space elev xd

[craggy finch]

343’s narrative can be summed up as set ups that they chickened out of

[sterile seal]

it's funny how Bungie has used the Oni name for three things now

[twin trout]

the whole (very very side) plot of infinite's multiplayer story with defected spartan ivs had the #potential to be cool <w>

[dreamy hawk]

Was that the link you intended?

[narrow jungle]

yea under "history"

[wise plank]

with this whole kill 500mil uesc bots its got me thinking about the canonical scale of the game. How many ships are in tau ceti? How many runners? How many UESC?

[craggy finch]

Halo games have to constantly throw you existential alien threats so that you ignore how fucked up the UNSC is

[sterile seal]

Infinite actually has my favorite Halo multiplayer suite it's a shame the reshuffling pulled away support

[dreamy hawk]

That’s just M1 plot details with some NuLore affixed.

[sterile seal]

the Halo New Blood novella has a pretty good exploration of the Innie storyline post-H3

[fossil zodiac]

Apparently UESC bots could be made infinitely.

[dreamy hawk]

I would not take that article as an authority; they conflate the lore of the games into something that we don’t know is true.

[narrow jungle]

Seems to be coherent with a lot of ingame logs; social deviancy included

[craggy finch]

I’m 100% sure that the UESC robot number is canonical; Vulcan notes that you had like a 0.005% effect on their operations

[narrow jungle]

you CONTRIBUTED to a 0.005%

[drifting mulch]

by the end of the Covenant, what the UNSC did doesn't matter anymore cause like 70% of the human race is dead. well it shouldn't except that might be why a human would join the brutes

[twin trout]

I quite liked it too ya, they also kinda pioneered the whole "you can buy a battlepass and own it forever and buy previous battlepasses" thingy (in regards to a somewhat big company doing that sort of thing) (unless there's another company that did it first in which case sowwy for nyot knowing >w>)

[sterile seal]

I wonder if we're just exploring many Perimeters, many Dire Marshes, many Outposts

[wise plank]

thats wild, maybe they can fabricate them? no way they brought that many from sol

[narrow jungle]

I dont know if it means us as the player or us as runners

[wise plank]

i think we are exploring many sites that arent in the game yet likely

[craggy finch]

Yeah they certainly have some kind of printer just churning them out

[sterile seal]

Marathon is doing the infinite battle pass thing too right?

[dreamy hawk]

References
YouTube - Marathon Reveal Cinematic Short
YouTube - Marathon | Gameplay Overview Trailer
Streamable - marathon trailer
YouTube - Launch Gameplay Trailer | Marathon

[sterile seal]

Oh yeah they just announced official Marathon Xbox controllers today for Design Lab.

[bronze robin]

and where are the UESC ships bringing them all from??

[narrow jungle]

Yea so its game focused stuff

hmm

[craggy finch]

Possibly resources from Tau Ceti system itself

[dreamy hawk]

What’s there is speculation or promotional items. I wouldn’t cite that.

[wise plank]

i wanna know the details of how many ships have travelled to tau ceti for the operations - like how do us runners get there? sekiguchi? are there constantly ships arriving?

[bronze robin]

are there other ships in the sky of the planet or do we only see the Marathon?

[twin trout]

isn't tau ceti in the middle of a massive debris field? :3

[drifting mulch]

i think they're the first to not timegate battle passes. dota may have been the first to introduce battle passes and they removed those a couple years ago cause they realized it's extractive and they don't actually need the money

[narrow jungle]

I mean to be fair a huge chunk of atleast the games timeline is speculation right now

[sterile seal]

I think the promo items are fair game, but you really shouldn't have speculation on a wiki

[narrow jungle]

I hope cryo will bring a bit more info

[wise plank]

tbh, could be info in the logs. so many i havent unlocked

[craggy finch]

The wikis are kind of sparse so it would be best to extrapolate from in game logs

[narrow jungle]

Especially with in game a lot being refered to as [REDACTED]

[wise plank]

also i LOVE the codex implemenation. finding a valuable and knowing ill get juicy lore

[wise plank]

watch there be pfhor in cryo

[sterile seal]

just got my last bonsai last night

[wise plank]

i neeed to complete that perimeter rampancy series

[narrow jungle]

Strongest assasin camper vs weakest compiler

[drifting mulch]

we are in comms with the different factions via FTL communication, there is no implication they're in-system

[wise plank]

surely sekgen must be there to like, get our shells in

[bronze robin]

Also do we know how far Matter Transference tech can send things? Like us runners and such.

[craggy finch]

ONI is still around as an institution allowed to do whatever the fuck

[wise plank]

i imagine it must be from the atmosphere.

[narrow jungle]

remember that we have "molecular teleportation" now

[wise plank]

hmm. ive been assuming its short range but it could be all the way lol

[dreamy hawk]

Sure. There earlier point stands that there’s no evidence that the ground assault happened, at least not as described in M1 because 1) there’s no NuLore to support it and 2) Infinity would have technically retconned all of that anyways, so if Infinity is cannon, that article is wrong.

[drifting mulch]

i wonder if CyAc's ONI is each runners' personal AI handler, given how pleasant she is 😻

[narrow jungle]

I dont really know tbh

[craggy finch]

The first Marathon kind of had that though, somewhat limited to around the Marathon itself until Durandal upgrades it

[twin trout]

didn't they try to screw with sanghelios to permanently put the sangheili out of "potential threat" status X3

[narrow jungle]

Infinity is confusing but yea I wont disagree here

[candid flicker]

/dac

[sterile seal]

and presumably down to the pinwheels

[drifting mulch]

maybe, but i'm thinking the shells are made planet-side. <- this is my pure speculation

[wise plank]

im really hoping bungies hiding something other than the compiler in cryo

[bronze robin]

Yeah Leela could only send so far and not always with certainty where arrival would be

[fossil zodiac]

Dunno if I’m crazy, but I feel like I heard something kinda similar to a voice when near the anomaly in dire marsh?

Anyone else?

[dreamy hawk]

They tried to starve the whole planet by secretly making their staple grain indigestible to them, but only hesitated because there was a chance it could affect human crops.

[wise plank]

100% it whispers to you

[bronze robin]

yes

[wise plank]

theres logs of it luring people in

[bronze robin]

Dire Marsh is creepy as hell

[twin trout]

classic oni X3

[bronze robin]

this game borders on horror LMAO

[fossil zodiac]

There’s psychological and cosmic horror implications!

And maybe body horror too

[dreamy hawk]

It’s not not a horror game.

[drifting mulch]

notnot who's there

[zealous laurel]

The w'rkncacnter

[craggy finch]

One minor easter egg I love is that the matchmaking screen has the same

JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START

TRANSPORT WHEN READY

text from the first game’s terminals

[dreamy hawk]

You’ve got a problem with Jim?

[zealous laurel]

No he seems to have a problem with existence tho so

[dreamy hawk]

Touché.

[sterile seal]

it's horror when you're a Rook

[craggy finch]

Do alien gods dream of Aztec skeletons?

[narrow jungle]

Especially transport in marathon is weird. A "light speed" message would take 11.9 years, but that means that the UESC ships traveled at light speed (equanamity) while the marathon was SIGNIFICANTLY slower. Taking around 30x as long as light speed itself. The lightspeed message in the "history chapter" was sent by leela in 2792 and arrived in 2886

[bronze robin]

Outpost rooking is pure fear

adrenaline

[craggy finch]

Leela was fuuuucked up give her a break

[narrow jungle]

In general I cant really make sense of teleportation speed, message speed, data transmission and ship speed

[narrow jungle]

poor leela ☹️

she a real one

[bronze robin]

wonder if the anomaly messed with the message speed

[fossil zodiac]

Also there are 8 AIs around? Instead of just Durandal, Leela, and Tycho?

[narrow jungle]

durandal leela and tycho are the marathons on board AIs

[craggy finch]

Also other systems on Marathon were damaged so I can imagine that affected the transmission

[bronze robin]

D, T, and L are specifically Marathon AI's

[sterile seal]

there's like 11 in totally right?

[fossil zodiac]

The rest are on Tau Ceti?

[bronze robin]

the other 8 we work with are corpos from earth

[craggy finch]

I wonder if the other AI were dormant for the 300 year trip

[narrow jungle]

But even if the transmission itself would take longer, the signal speed would still be the speed of light unless they moved away from photon communication wich I doubt since we can see antennae and radio like devices in game

[bronze robin]

I think

[sterile seal]

probably so they didn't got rampant on the journey over

[craggy finch]

The others weren’t conceptualised back then, but regardless Durandal makes a point of mentioning that he gave Tycho the silent treatment for like 100 years because he was told he was too sarcastic, leaving only Leela as company

[dreamy hawk]

Yes.

[narrow jungle]

Their anti rampancy measure was "strauss being on board" as well as the AIs kind of self monitoring and depending on each other, a bit like goverments checks and balances

[dreamy hawk]

Leela has terrible aim. 🤷

[craggy finch]

Anti rampancy measure from Mr Rampancy himself

[sage summit]

I believe gantry and orion are the same person

[sterile seal]

I wonder if Tycho and Icarus even did end up communicating

[narrow jungle]

Suboptimal consequences followed

[craggy finch]

Shit didn’t even turn up, Durandal had to give that message

[narrow jungle]

Wasnt he 10k years too late to the party?

[dreamy hawk]

Not in this timeline.

[craggy finch]

At least he seems to have sent the “Somewhere in the Heavens” transmission in 2888

[narrow jungle]

ohhh yea

[fossil zodiac]

Feel like Durandal will want our help somehow.

[digital plaza]

Its completely false, stop reading this fandom slop man, research things yourself. Contagion is planet itself trying to kill off unwanted humans (https://youtu.be/mw3lUP-dDQ8 , https://youtu.be/oTzBftKcq2U , https://youtu.be/J6nEbZ-_N5g), it mutated wildlife rapidly (https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/survey-drone-cartridge?directory=World,Perimeter) and created virus called contagion, which deliberately targeted crops first and only then humans. It is linked to the anomaly, which caused people to have nightmares and mass hallucinations (https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarkPnT8-qRcFBv8voxcPsZfym_DBJlt2 , https://youtu.be/OFwdNPr8_Ec) and caused AIs to go rampant (https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLarkPnT8-qRceyu307V2O_f4aqOtIVLWB). It is also stated that there is something inside the planet, something that humans cannot/should not comprehend (https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/personal-log-kuzmin-i?directory=World,Perimeter)

All this fandom shit was not updated since the games release and simple speculation without any proof

Once again, there is no hint to any ground invasion

[acoustic comet]

I don't know if this question belongs in the general discussion or here, but do you think the aliens will show up? The ones that were in the first games?

[narrow jungle]

compilers

probably

[sterile seal]

I expect the Pfhor will come for increased enemy variety in future zones

[narrow jungle]

The planet killing of humans is the researchers speculation...

[craggy finch]

Only compilers are teased but Pfhor are a possibility and they are teased in an autopsy log

[sterile seal]

the planet was a Jjaro growhouse and the shrooms have gotten loose

[craggy finch]

Foolish Jjaro, I laced yo shit

[fossil zodiac]

Yeah from my small understanding, no invasion happened. Even after the marathon was damaged, life still went on until shit got weird years later.

[narrow jungle]

imagine smoking the tau ceti fungus

[narrow jungle]

Absoltuly no invasion happened yea

[digital plaza]

Oh i overlooked timeline page a little, its still fandom speculation slop without any concrete proof that we now have in game

[deep solar]

I’m smoking that Jjaro sticky, my shell hangs dong in fluorescent lighting, this shit ain’t nothing to me man

[craggy finch]

Song mentions “becoming one” with the planet so you’d basically turn into Flood

[narrow jungle]

Its based on the trailers of the game; and the logs in game explicitly mention "weaponized biologics"; plus autopsies of aliens. No alien ground invasion happened tho, it was as far as we know just the fungus/contagion

[narrow jungle]

sheeet

[fossil zodiac]

We could see fungal zombies

That’s a possibility

[digital plaza]

Contagion sample got 90(~)% similarity with the anomaly, which comes from the planet directly

[long kernel]

Yeah, a lot of that response paragraph was “this is speculation, unlike this, which is slightly less unfounded speculation

[narrow jungle]

wich they THINK eminates from the planet

the researches dont know

thus -> anomaly

[deep solar]

New timeline Phfor too afraid of getting steamrolled by the Battleroids so they unleashed the Jjaro kush on the humans

[narrow jungle]

if they knew it wouldnt be an anomaly

[narrow jungle]

yea the logs itself are also just settlers speculating what things are

[craggy finch]

Maybe Tycho didn’t help them in this timeline

[long kernel]

It is most likely that whatever caused the anomaly also caused the contagion, but all we have to go off of are century old research logs that are very clearly kinda fumbling around in the dark

[narrow jungle]

this

[fossil zodiac]

And from what happened to Dr. Song, there may be some weird stuff waiting for us on the marathon.

[deep solar]

Quick everyone yell OPEN DOOR CLOSE DOOR OPEN DOOR CLOSE DOOR at Durandal until he gives us all the answers

[sterile seal]

the Pfhor aren't slavers, they're drug lords and wanted access to the Jjaro shrooms the UESC had unknowingly planted their flag on

[narrow jungle]

Ask him to display an xray diffraction for 500 times

[digital plaza]

In game logs mention it in the context of UESC using some colony made bioweapon (or something like that, dont remember super clear that part), not that one was deployed onto the colony. Alien autopsies presumably happen on the marathon, since we do know that they boraded the ship

[narrow jungle]

One of the Outpost collectible missions is literally to exfil alien biopsies

[fossil zodiac]

Durandal, flush the toilet 600 times.

[craggy finch]

Yeah it’s more likely those autopsies were done on Outpost

[narrow jungle]

Durandal, next mission: reject this mission

[digital plaza]

Well shit where else does it eminate from? We can see it in game and its pretty clear it comes from the ground...

[deep solar]

Outpost was UESC HQ so they’d have top secret facilities

[fossil zodiac]

Accept this mission, reject this mission and accept it again but reject it again.

[narrow jungle]

In a timeline (unclear if game or not) it has to do with the workncacter

[craggy finch]

Well at this point he can just jet you into space if he’s annoyed enough

[narrow jungle]

It could be that the planet is made to do something by an unknown force, the researchers simply dont know

[long kernel]

I do have a theory that the contagion and possibly even the anomaly were Pfhor weapons, but my main idea is that it’s a Pfhor bioweapon using Jjaro tech in order to cleanse the colony without having to fight in person, the anomaly had effects on it and activated because of it detecting Jjaro tech

[fossil zodiac]

Durandal, explain the ingredients of drinkable cheeseburgers on loop.

[narrow jungle]

Durandal, cycle airlock.
Well you wanted me to open doors dont you?
*woosh

[long kernel]

But that’s more my red twine and cork board thing

[craggy finch]

Pepe Silvia

[long kernel]

Really the unfortunate thing is we have enough info to make a ton of theories, but not quite enough to narrow them down into likely realities

[narrow jungle]

Another thing is a POSSIBLE cyberattack on the colony, because we can see in the surveillance logs one of the snippets where an unknown user hacks access and keeps initiating files etc And it points to it being an automated program not a human

[long kernel]

Yeah

[narrow jungle]

(another outpost collectible)

[fossil zodiac]

There’s also something definitely up with the Binguses.

[long kernel]

My guess is that in this timeline the Pfhor are far more willing to do other forms of warfare

[fossil zodiac]

Especially ghost cat.

[long kernel]

Quite possibly less interested in the whole enslaving thing unless they see a clear benefit

Humans probably don’t offer anything new

[narrow jungle]

I dont know about bingus, might just be an easteregg but I hope theres lore to it; maybe corpo / AI surveillance

[deep solar]

I had gotten the alien autopsy codex log earlier and it definitely seems like a phfor

[drifting mulch]

never thought of this but it makes a lot of sense

[long kernel]

Easier to just wipe them out with a bioweapon and then investigate the weird Jjaro relic they are sitting on once they are dead

[digital plaza]

Well yeah, maybe they transferred this info to the outpost or something like that, if fighting were happening on outpost we would be hearing about this in some form elsewhere

[narrow jungle]

since bingus is found on weirdly good viewing spots often and a cat form would pose no threat to a runners consciousness; given we also extract pet cats so the corps could assume that runners think its just an automated pet

[narrow jungle]

There was infighting in the outpost, several security records and mentions of ill behaved colonists, but no alien invasion yea

[deep solar]

Must be horrifying itself to go to sleep in Sol and suddenly wake up 300 years later light years away

[bronze robin]

bingus is the bioweapon. we're cooked

[narrow jungle]

bingus is the workincatheter

[bronze robin]

he's too cute

[digital plaza]

Its sure is strongly implied that w'rkncacnter is inside the planet, hence the anomaly and the contagion

[bronze robin]

one pet, its all over

[narrow jungle]

Yea thats the whole thing, its not the "planet" per-se trying to get rid of people, its the workings of the wrkncacnter

[long kernel]

The wrkncatentr?

[narrow jungle]

ye

[deep solar]

The Twerkincastinher

[bronze robin]

from the meowrathon

[narrow jungle]

but jokes aside I firmly think bingus is a kind of surveillance tool

[long kernel]

I still like the idea of it being a Jjaro device

[narrow jungle]

OR that yea, given the jjaro has a habit of going to planets and not do anything for an unknown amount of time

[drifting mulch]

orbiting the Meow Ceti IV

[long kernel]

Maybe one containing a Wrkncacnter, but definitely something Jjaro

[deep solar]

Bingus is just Orion roaming around on his time off

Orion secretly a furry

[digital plaza]

Ye its the MIDA supporters, i presume that they started some kind of civil war/made terrorist attack there to leave the planet/obstruct it when contagion and starvation hit hard (https://youtu.be/7oNQKzKTQqc)

[long kernel]

Could totally just be a Wrkncacnter, but that feels too, like, obvious? Idk

[bronze robin]

except... its a furless cat..

[narrow jungle]

I think this is the most probable explanation; especially since jjaro / wrkncacnter from what is explained lore wise are incredibly powerful; it would explain the weird and non-random behavioral changes, the cyber "attacks" and the plethora of biological horrors

[long kernel]

It’s the easy and obvious option for what’s causing weird reality stuff

[digital plaza]

Yea yea, but people dont know about this and cannot comprehend it (https://codex.cyberacme.systems/entry/personal-log-kuzmin-i?directory=World,Perimeter)

[long kernel]

Also if a Wrkncacnter was causing this, it would be causing a lot more on top of it

[deep solar]

Wrkncacnter wouldn’t really be known about by the bungie fans from Halo on though

[long kernel]

They seem to either be dormant, or rending reality asunder

[bronze robin]

maybe the planet needs to.. hatch.. first

[deep solar]

I’d say it’s obscure enough to be a surprise reveal

For the lore heads we’d be like YOOOOOOO and everyone else would have their mind blown

[digital plaza]

There is, cool lore implications too https://youtu.be/QcNVqAYJLZU

[bronze robin]

... which we probably don't want to be there for....

[narrow jungle]

The main thing about the anomly is also; is it an ongoing attack? Is it a one time thing? It seems that when the shells roam, it still is interactible and seems to have frozen time for 90 years levitating stuff, etc

[long kernel]

Yeah, my guess is the anomaly is the containment device having some form of malfunction, and the contagion is an automated response to kill anything that may be compromising the integrity of the container

[narrow jungle]

The contagion essentially being a "sterilizing agent"

From in game logs tho we know that shit is 100% weaponised

[bronze robin]

did the anomally cause that one worker in the trailer to float up and.. turn to dust

[narrow jungle]

yep that was the anomaly

[long kernel]

I swear I’ve heard an unintelligible voice from it at least once

[narrow jungle]

you can see the poor sap in game

[bronze robin]

wait

you can??

[digital plaza]

Interesting theory!

[narrow jungle]

yeah walk around dire marsh

[long kernel]

Someone similar

[narrow jungle]

at the anomaly

[long kernel]

It’s not him

[narrow jungle]

^

[bronze robin]

I've only seen vehicles

okat

[narrow jungle]

Its not the exact cat walk

and area

[bronze robin]

I need to do some looking

[long kernel]

The environment is totally different

[narrow jungle]

but its the same uh

"thing"

[long kernel]

Yeah

[fossil zodiac]

||[CSNG]: This is Dr. Song, dying far from home.
[CSNG]: I did it. I saw you. Named you. Dragged you into the light.
[CSNG]: Telomyces mosaica. That's a fitting name for an endlessly mutating killer.
[spores hiss]
[CSNG]: And you're part of something bigger than yourself, aren't you? You waited in the soil for us to sow our seeds, the ones we brought with us. You infected our crops, and then you infected our people.
[CSNG]: And this planet… Something here protected you from us, the way our AI should have protected us from you. It corrupted Darius. Sabotaged our every attempt to understand what was happening or how to stop it.
[CSNG]: You know, you can colonize my blood and liquify my bones, but—but I figured you out.
[CSNG]: Still not sure what's helping you. What made you into a weapon. Guess I'll never know.
[CSNG]: I do know I got off easy. I get to grow here, part of this world that I never understood. I get to dream.
[CSNG]: What awaits the others is an ancient nightmare. Cold. Lonely.
[CSNG]: An endless… perishing… cycle.||

There’s this as well, regarding the fungus/contagion.

[bronze robin]

my fear of being sniped from the roofs in the fog have kinda made me not look at the scenery as much LOL

[digital plaza]

Game have actual story for this dude, complete Traxus contracts and find out

Or i can link it if you want

[bronze robin]

omg

[narrow jungle]

"you can colonize my blood" is oddly fitting to the other report of the researcher feeding the "biomass" diffrent things and eventually saying "why not human cells" and seemingly succumbing to the same "brain control"

[long kernel]

Yeah, there is at least one empty floating suit with fungus or something erupting from
The neck

[bronze robin]

Okay yeah I need to read the codex more and also walk around dire marsh

[long kernel]

But yeah, my guess is that this is some Jjaro thing to keep things off the planet so they don’t mess shit up

Seems very bungie to me too

Seemingly beautiful alien world harbors a deep dark secret and has ancient alien security measures to keep whatever it is locked away forever

[digital plaza]

#leaderboard

[narrow jungle]

If it truly is a wrkncacnter is unclear, but given they are usually contained and trapped in stars I dont know about planets. It 100% is some jjaro stuff tho. Definitly "alien" and not native to tau ceti

nor a geological event

[digital plaza]

PiD had wrk trapped inside earth tho

[narrow jungle]

oh yea thats fair the pyramid incident and all that

either way the forerunn- I ment jjaros were present one way or another

[digital plaza]

By the way, if anyone wants to know more about the numarathon's lore check this out #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

[sterile seal]

given Traxus is in the story, I wonder if they'll finally confirm or deny the theory that Durandal is Traxus IV

[digital plaza]

@narrow jungle And hey, instead of fandom slop check out our own little timeline, made by the guy that did timeline sheets for the original trilogy #📚marathon-lore-discussion message

Its not ideal but still

:)

[narrow jungle]

wait some of that is (per the cinematic trailer) wich is the same as the fandom source

[digital plaza]

Yea but its a bit more accurate and plausible to what we have than fandom ver

[hasty rain]

🙏 ancient underground Jjaro facilities map, please

[digital plaza]

So better to jumpstart theories from this

[peak halo]

Minor spoiler: ||I just got to the 2nd sekiguchi quest that mentions the battleroids||

https://tenor.com/view/thats-it-yes-thats-it-that-right-there-omg-that-thats-what-i-mean-gif-17579879

[tranquil basin]

I was so hyped I did not think that would be mentioned

[echo sundial]

I think durandal has a cool voice from the terminals but I think they're going a little too hard into the evil serial killer vibe

He does have that vibe I agree but I do think he was genuinely humorous and funny at times too in the original games

[twin trout]

his dialogue in the description of the cryo archive shell skins seems a bit more snarky :3

[echo sundial]

ooo can you post? I haven't seen.

[twin trout]

will send in #🎨marathon-community-art-chat :3

[echo sundial]

I think they've done really well with the game so far so I'm hopeful that durandal will be characterized well

Honestly one of the coolest sci-fi characters that I know of off the top of my head

[twin trout]

#excited for da archives :D

[amber agate]

||didn’t know orion died because of the matter we extracted for mida||

[sage lark]

Only the shell

I believe its a live specimen

[echo sundial]

we live in a post death society

he's like

DBNO

[amber agate]

yeah that makes sense

I completely forgot that applies to uesc

but god DAMN _GANTRY’s memo does something while defending with a free kit and no patches

[mystic edge]

yeah, I feel like Gianni Matragranos portrayal of Durandal in the Mandalore Reviews was more intriguing, I knew his goals were entirely self serving, but i felt an odd sense of warmth? from him sometimes.

[echo sundial]

He is definitely poetic and meandering, but he fancies himself as almost a comedian too, he's soooo snarky in the og games its great lmao

[mystic edge]

Yeah, I cant really imagine the current VA joking about Phfor Battle Group 7 or doing a cheerleader routine to announce the (eventual) death of the universe.

[echo sundial]

idk its just a little odd at least at the moment, I think maybe the terminals are not the full portrayal.

[mystic edge]

Yeah, im willing to give it time/a chance

[echo sundial]

I don't think he should be a millennial quirk chungus or anything but the character is at least very funny in a sort of misanthrope way

As slightly used milk posted earlier nuDurandal does seem to poke fun at us dying a billion times on cryo archive

which I think is definitely something he would do

[tranquil basin]

He also merged with Thoth though, so he could’ve changed a bit

Though I do hope they add some more snarky lines

[echo sundial]

we're going to walk up to a door on cryo archive with a giant gold health bar

trust

[rotund stump]

I mean

he did merg with thoth lol

merigng your cocky self with a poetic AI made by a god-race does things

and that's excluding hopping 7 timelines

[timber loom]

Do I understand correctly that there are literally zero real people we interact with now? Everyone is either an explicit AI, or bio-AI in a form of a runner it seems

[rotund stump]

what's a bio-AI 😭

[echo sundial]

Can't be on Tau Ceti and be a normal human because humanity does not have physical FTL

yet

[echo sundial]

he means human consciousness in the biocybernetic shell

[rotund stump]

oh just call it biocyber then lol

[timber loom]

But UESC Goliath got there by physical means, no?

[sage lark]

Equanimity yes

[rotund stump]

but either way we don't know if gantry's speaking through a biomaton or actually embodying one and that's the only potential exception of interacting with a real human

[tranquil basin]

It’s not there yet as far as we know

[echo sundial]

it also a little unclear the degree to which the "personality matrix" of the shell affects the consciousness of the individual inhabiting the shell too, so theres that I guess.

[tranquil basin]

They do now

They have to

No actual in game confirmation but the timeline doesn’t work without it

[echo sundial]

They have FTL comms and manufacturing hubs and stuff

just no FTL transport yet

[tranquil basin]

Yes but the corps didn’t decide to send stuff until 2888

And the game is 2893

[timber loom]

It all depends on how did runners got to TCIV. The codex mentions they arrived on their own by many ships, but I do not see how civilization that sent like 1.5 interstellar missions can have private contractors flying private spaceships

[tranquil basin]

Yeah but they’re owned by cyac and stored in cyac stuff

And cyac didn’t decide to go until 2888 either

[echo sundial]

Idk I mean its possible you had the teleporter stuff going on in the first games

[sage lark]

so teleporting across 12LY is more plausible than FTL

[echo sundial]

I was kind of under the assumption that the teleporters are basically limited to robots and stuff though

[tranquil basin]

It’s possible but they have huge resources in the system. ONI is in the system too but they probably didn’t teleport an entire AI network of computers

[timber loom]

In theory there is no biostuff with runners, so they might utilize some sort of teleport-FTL stuff

[echo sundial]

well there is biostuff with the runners

[sage lark]

they are bio synthetic