9.2 Feedback and Discussion

[pale roost]

snapshot

vendetta

exsang

meta

[stiff fossil]

I hate it here

[empty magnet]

i liked nf playstyle a lot tbh

[rose grail]

is this the deathspike rework we were wishing for

[thin torrent]

exsang meta esketit

[stiff fossil]

they fixed the vendetta overhang

[thin torrent]

how does the haste snapshot work any knowers?

[stiff fossil]

make sure you spread this so I can get easier pink parses next tier

ty

[deep sleet]

yeah yeah but why are we talking about necro too

[rose grail]

i had no issue with it, but people were losing their furry shit

[stiff fossil]

because the 4pc works with sbs now

they fixed it

[deep sleet]

oh so its our third best cov instead of fourth, got it

[empty magnet]

lmao

[stiff fossil]

fourth best?

[empty magnet]

prob bis until 2 leggo

once you get tier

tbh

[stiff fossil]

bro have you seen kyrian sin?

[deep sleet]

kyrian sin was still above necro last i checked

[stiff fossil]

idk I don't look past first place

[empty magnet]

nowhere near close

[stiff fossil]

I don't care who's the best worst choice

[empty magnet]

necro bussin with the tier

[thin torrent]

necro enthusiast

[deep sleet]

yeah kyrian was still simming above necro

youre on crack

get help

visit a treatment center

[stiff fossil]

damn esra trying to get booted from xD now

sheeesh

[empty magnet]

what'd i do

[stiff fossil]

pretty sure venthyr still wins

even with this change

[empty magnet]

o.O

necro was already simming

bis single leggo 4 pc basically

before this

should be bis st / cleave / aoe now

[deep sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-7929301

[empty magnet]

ye see

60 dps behind fae

and that

pure st no resets

with this change it's just hyper bis until double leggo comes in and rips sin a new anus

[stiff fossil]

[empty magnet]

i wonder if it's enough to offset the overhang change actually

for prog at least

[deep sleet]

theres genuinly no shot in my mind

necro working with 4pc suddenly just skyrockets

[empty magnet]

? it was already good

deathspike just sucks

[deep sleet]

yeah but we're losing the 4pc overhang AND we're assuming it also digs back the dps it was already behind?

[fallen cedar]

seriously? necro is good?

[deep sleet]

thats gotta be like 400+ dps it has to gain

[empty magnet]

oh i'm not saying this makes sin bis

or even the best rogue spec

just that necro sin looks like the play for prog if you playing sin for any bosses

[stiff fossil]

Esra is convinced that sbs ticking for 500 twice as often during vendetta will make up the difference

[deep sleet]

well just the best covenant for sin

[stiff fossil]

I guess

[empty magnet]

i doubt that

it will cover all the overhang

would be nice if it covered some of it

[stiff fossil]

it won't

[empty magnet]

let me huff

stop killing my vibes

lmao

[stiff fossil]

lmao bruh just go play frost mage

then you can switch to any of the hero class's specs

and just shit out dam

no need for copium

[rose grail]

this is the way

[molten ore]

How much dps was the vendetta overhang worth?

% wise

[dry night]

Wait wtf happened

I've been scrolling up for 3 mins

Why we get kneecapped for no reason

[pale roost]

SBS was fixed to work with the tier set

[molten ore]

[pale roost]

And the overhang had to be removed for that to function.

[dry night]

Oh

Rip our 1min vendetta

[molten ore]

So headshot the nf enthusiasts instead

[stiff fossil]

whatchu mean

nf is just fine

[molten ore]

It was fun my dude

It changed gameplay in an interesting and nuanced way

[pale roost]

I enjoyed the overhang quite a bit myself as well

[molten ore]

I really liked it

[dry night]

Didnt the overhang generate like 10s ish of vend cdr

If not more

[molten ore]

I know it wasn’t intended and was a bug etc but shit man

[pale roost]

How would like 8s of double-speed bleeds reduce the vend cd by more than 10s

I don't have the numbers, but that sounds absurd.

[dry night]

Yeah that's what whispyr said too

[pale roost]

I mean, we were already getting 1 min vendettas before the tier set

[empty magnet]

we were already getting like

[pale roost]

So we're fine.

[empty magnet]

50-55 second vendettas

with full uptime

so i'm sure we'll be fine

[dry night]

As venthyr yes

[pale roost]

We were getting 50-55s Vendettas and had to hold it for 5s everytime anyways

[empty magnet]

nah as fae

on ptr

i was regularly getting like 50-55

[pale roost]

Ye

[empty magnet]

this won't affect the 1 min build

it's just a nerf for an underperforming spec

which seems weird

[dry night]

Yeah regardless it doesn't make sense

Are we getting buffed somewhere else ?

[empty magnet]

it makes sense for necro but

compensation buff pls por favor

[stiff fossil]

I mean it's not necessarily a nerf, it's fixing a bug

the bug just happened to give us more damage

[pale roost]

No official word from Blizzard yet.

[dry night]

Like they think bug fixing deathspike and making sbs work with 4p means Necro is good or something

[empty magnet]

well they said it was a bug / feature depending on how people liked it

[dry night]

?

[stiff fossil]

it's no more a nerf than fixing the dagger bug was a nerf

[dry night]

Yeah I get that

[stiff fossil]

when a dev goes through to bug fix isn't to "make x good" it's to fix the bug

the people tweaking the numbers can handle what happens after

[dry night]

But it's still a total of 21s of exsanged bleeds we miss every minute

If done correctly

[stiff fossil]

okay, but we've known that the overhang was a bug from legit day 1

[pale roost]

but to be fair it was left in because it was an interesting thing, not because it wasn't fixable

[stiff fossil]

^

[pale roost]

I'm confident the Necro thing is the reason it's fixed

[stiff fossil]

I am too tbh

[pale roost]

They would much rather have a working covenant than a buggy tier set

[dry night]

Yeah I get that I understand it was a bug and they were thinking about fixing it

[deep sleet]

idk it seems like a nerf

[pale roost]

But yeh

[deep sleet]

because they acknowledged it

[pale roost]

We definitely need some compensation for sure

[severe verge]

it’s being fixed settle down

[dry night]

But it's a nerf overall to a just ok 4p

[deep sleet]

they recognized it as a mechanic and discusses leaving it in

[pale roost]

Okay there you heard it boys

Calm your horses

[deep sleet]

OH NOW YOU TELL US

[pale roost]

We're still in it

[deep sleet]

AFTER THE FIRES HAVE SPREAD

[dry night]

Lol

[molten ore]

[stiff fossil]

tf the man's not your personal CNN

[open pivot]

class discords and doomsaying

[severe verge]

what do u mean ‘now u tell us’ like I don’t have a job

[deep sleet]

I KILLED MY GOAT BECAUSE OF YOU

[pale roost]

Okay good stuff, we're chilling.

[dry night]

My man started sacrificing his livestock

[pale roost]

I'll end the discussion here for now.

[stiff fossil]

now everyone can stop freaking tf out

[empty magnet]

wait

[pale roost]

No more doomsaying and bullshit.

[empty magnet]

so the snapshot overhang bonespike haste king spec dream

is alive

nightstalker

[pale roost]

[stiff fossil]

iswtg esra I'll come and cut you

[empty magnet]

lmaoooo

[stiff fossil]

I'll bring you a soujok sandwich though too

[empty magnet]

[deep sleet]

everyone quiet hes typing

[severe verge]

I mean it’s worth mentioning it could always be removed or changed for something else but. in this case it was removed unintentionally

[pale roost]

Makes sense, thank you for the clarification!

[dry night]

I mean I've said from the get go that my opinion is that the snapshot is fun and strong but I'd rather have compensation somewhere else instead of it so I'm chillin either way

[deep sleet]

even if its aritifical i enjoy the slight gameplay change

[dry night]

I was just confused when I opened disc and people were on fire

[rocky carbon]

Scarizard communication

[pale roost]

ptr-police here, no more discussion of what's happened. it's being fixed and we're mega chilling now

[molten ore]

[deep sleet]

All my homies love scarizard ZX evolution

[severe verge]

what if I told you all gameplay changes are artificial

[molten ore]

No angry gamers allowed

[severe verge]

[sterile swift]

ptr-police here, no more discussion of what's happened. it's being fixed and we're mega chilling now

[sterile swift]

Hol up

[deep sleet]

...n-no

[stiff fossil]

okay now I need the scari discord emotes

tf

[severe verge]

sub to my stream babey

[stiff fossil]

say less

[empty magnet]

lmao

[deep sleet]

S T R E A M?!

[molten ore]

[dry night]

Mega Charizard x dragon dance sweeper build

[sterile swift]

No, he plays TFT oxi, we’ve gone over this

[stiff fossil]

no we haven't, don't @ me kid

[rocky carbon]

Its all artificial? Always has been🌎 🧑‍🚀 🔫

[empty magnet]

@stiff fossil gotta ban scarizard now

[severe verge]

streaming and content was my job before this

[sterile swift]

@stiff fossil

[scenic saddle]

Ban scari advertising his stream

[deep sleet]

AH SHIT I PINGED HIM I FORGOT

[stiff fossil]

I'll ban all you mfers first

[empty magnet]

lol

honestly just take me out back till rogue is bis

[severe verge]

anyways yes I just meant in the same way all words are made up

All gameplay changes are made artificially

[deep sleet]

yeh

[empty magnet]

artificial gameplay flavorings 🤤

[sterile swift]

Gameplay is artificial

[severe verge]

just realized I had to say something bc rogues can’t act normal

[stiff fossil]

[deep sleet]

the overhang is a cool gameplay interaction that was unexpected, i should say

[sterile swift]

That’s factual. Damn.

[rocky carbon]

Are dks or rogues more normal

[deep sleet]

rogues are crackheads

[rose grail]

we should act like mages

[molten ore]

@sterile swift @stiff fossil THE SCREENSHOT

[dry night]

Well I have faith that we won't be stuck playing sub so I'll keep huffing the

[sterile swift]

Probably dks

[pale roost]

I don't think anyone playing the game is considered normal

[stiff fossil]

yeah I'm pretty sure we were all born underneath electric utility lines

[pale roost]

we're all freaks here

[sterile swift]

Wait which screen

[molten ore]

Ill rogues as usual

[stiff fossil]

oh oh

shit

uh

yeah I got nothin

[deep sleet]

Dks are way too edgy and scream at their monitor

[steep rampart]

Based on your statement here, I'm just going to guess it was applied universally when it was intended to just address the SBS issue?
Realistically I don't think the impact is that massive here but trying to pull some numbers together now.

[molten ore]

Now is the time

[rocky carbon]

Ill like illmatic

[severe verge]

Oxi rly out here abt to make me fix my twitch integration so I’m not a scammer

[dry night]

It's ok everyone else does it too

[severe verge]

And yes koji I believe that was the case

[sterile swift]

You’d think I’d have it favorited

[molten ore]

There it is boys

[stiff fossil]

fix what?

I got it

[steep rampart]

Forcing me to change the SimC code anyway to make it work for SBS lol

[severe verge]

Oh HELL yeah

[rocky carbon]

I didnt know you streamed time to at least follow

[stiff fossil]

now I can threaten you all with the wrath of scarizard

[severe verge]

[sterile swift]

Another heater

[molten ore]

Banger

[stiff fossil]

a fire mage died for this piece of RH lore

[dry night]

Legendary nfts

[deep sleet]

now i dont even need to ping him in discord i can harass him on twitch in his offline chat

[empty magnet]

[sterile swift]

It truly was a double win

[severe verge]

anyways yes i will stop advertising but - I streaming fulltime before this, I am too busy to stream frequently now but likely will after 9.2 ships bc some banger games are coming out

[sterile swift]

I’m amazed he’s still in this discord. Every day we stray further from god

[severe verge]

it's funny i had

[empty magnet]

what if god is a rogue monke too

and every day we get closer

[severe verge]

riven mains who paid someone i used to go to high school with for my cell phone number to dox me

[scenic saddle]

[dry night]

Kassadin protector reroll God comp change my mind

[deep sleet]

waht in the god damn

[severe verge]

rogues are just like 'frog emote i'm a child when are u deleting outlaw'

this is basic

[sterile swift]

LMFAO

[empty magnet]

that's some good content

[deep sleet]

its a nice frog

[stiff fossil]

lmfaoooooooooo

[pale roost]

[weary night]

remove the aoe cap

[scenic saddle]

Scari stream and tell us stories

[weary night]

[empty magnet]

begone foul pirate

[rose grail]

‘frog emote i’m a grown ass adults when are you deleting outlaw and bringing back combat’

[stiff fossil]

begone pirate boy

[molten ore]

[pale roost]

it's just an echo chamber of children screaming at each other

[deep sleet]

even a wow dev has "remove outlaw from the game" at the front of his mind

[stiff fossil]

HEY. I'M AN ADULT

[empty magnet]

if i ran the echo chamber it'd have fog and bubble machines

just sayin

[scenic saddle]

Better than a liquid chamber amirite

[deep sleet]

RGB disco ball

[pale roost]

[empty magnet]

#esrafil for echo chamber president

disco balls will be approved

[pale roost]

[steep rampart]

This seems really overly simplistic. That's just Assassination Rogues. Sub Rogues are in a constant state of rage. Outlaw Rogues just out there drooling over CN 5-buffs and making pirate noises. We're all different over here!

[severe verge]

s2g i'd ban half of you on sight

[stiff fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/tigger-sad-bye-leaving-gif-12259711

[severe verge]

you'll come to my stream and see it's filled with normal human beings who all like eachother

[pale roost]

sounds disgusting

[stiff fossil]

oh yeah you lost 99% of this server with that last bit

[dry night]

🧢

[severe verge]

and then start spamming btt pepes and stuff and be like 'wait why is no one taking me seriously'

[dry night]

My man's acting like league players aren't scum too

[stiff fossil]

for what its worth I like Cev, Koji, and Whispyr, and sometimes Seli

[dry night]

We are more toxic than wow players

[scenic saddle]

I like other rogues as long as their name is not yellow/orange/blue

[pale roost]

The green boys stick together

[steep rampart]

I would say that if this seems bad, I would recommend taking a trip to Fel Hammer to recalibrate. 🤣

[molten ore]

[dry night]

Otherwise why would we constantly play teemo top, tanking our lp but expecting to win somehow while spamming JG diff

[severe verge]

anyways i have to make the video game world of warcraft. bold/foolish of you to assume i would suffer league players in my stream

[molten ore]

LMFAO

[stiff fossil]

lmfaoooooooo

my buddy asked a question in fel hammer and got legit trolled for an hour and a half

[empty magnet]

bro i tried going in there when i made a dh alt

and i just didn't even bother

it's a CESSPOOOOL

[pale roost]

okay bedge time for me as well, don't burn the discord down

[scenic saddle]

my buddy asked a question in fel hammer and got legit trolled for an hour and a half

[stiff fossil]

gn cutie

[stiff fossil]

[pale roost]

[molten ore]

I asked a question in fel hammer and got legit trolled for an hour and a half

[severe verge]

oxi i am glad you have that one

[dry night]

You guys are so cute I'm jealous

[rose grail]

@steep rampart just say “momentum is best”

[stiff fossil]

look guys he has an emote for us in his server

[dry night]

🐒

[severe verge]

i will stop off-topicing but my first emote when i was an affiliate is

[deep sleet]

🦧

[empty magnet]

🙈 that can't hurt me because i can't read

[severe verge]

bc its like a little wave and i was streaming botw at the time

and then we found this comic

and the artist gave me permission to use the gun

[empty magnet]

lmaoooo

that's actually pog

[dry night]

Scari is a real qt gamer I'm learning

[steep rampart]

That's a strange way to spell FEL BARRAGE

[rose grail]

haha

[empty magnet]

i still have fel barrage nightmares from nyalotha

filthy pad thiefs

[rose grail]

StOp MaKiNg mE uSe mOvEmEnT 4 dPs

[wraith sphinx]

so is it pitchfork time or no?

[rose grail]

yes

[dry night]

No

[wraith sphinx]

ill need an adult to respond

[rose grail]

you had 5 minutes of SBS bis

[dry night]

Scari said no

And Cev said no

[wraith sphinx]

no pitchforks?

[dry night]

Correct

[wraith sphinx]

[rose grail]

do you want to be fae? no pitchfork

[deep sleet]

wait hold on

[rose grail]

want to be necro. pitchfork.

adult answer

[deep sleet]

necro was only going to be good if there was no overhang?

[dry night]

They made sbs work with tier and turned off snapshot kind of by accident and they are fixing it

[deep sleet]

i dont even know what the real pitchfork war was about

[dry night]

Tldr Unknown if that means replacing snapshot or buffing somewhere else but regardless they are aware and working on it so no pitchforks

[wraith sphinx]

psure necro is still good

[deep sleet]

i think he specifically meant the overhang is being placed back in

[stiff fossil]

necrolord sucks

[wraith sphinx]

if it can barely beat necro in pure st with no downtime, expect necro to be competitive

[stiff fossil]

[wraith sphinx]

i said i need an adult oxi

[severe verge]

(yes necro thing is staying, the previous 4p functionality is returning iirc)

[wraith sphinx]

awesome

and thanks for the quick replies on it as well

[dry night]

Thank you adult

[stiff fossil]

this is why I iterated earlier that I only sometimes like you

[wraith sphinx]

no you dont

[molten ore]

lmfao

[wraith sphinx]

you adore me, 100% of the time

[dry night]

Well I always like all of you

[rose grail]

is this nova?

[molten ore]

[wraith sphinx]

its the main reason people like me, yeah, cause i post nova pictures

i dont have a whole lot else going for me

[rose grail]

hey i chose you over dad this morning. you were tied with streamers

got no cat cam

[empty magnet]

wait if overhang comes back

necro stonks even more

[stiff fossil]

it's coming back

[empty magnet]

fae booty juice for prog now

[stiff fossil]

I hate you

so much rn

[empty magnet]

ahahhahahaahaha

in torghast rn leveling up necro

wooooo

[stiff fossil]

come back to SE michigan and see what happens

[rose grail]

why would anyone do that

[empty magnet]

@stiff fossil permission to post a meme

[stiff fossil]

because we got better food than you, take this L king

[dry night]

Dang oxi is a Michigan guy no wonder

[molten ore]

[stiff fossil]

@empty magnet these fools don't know

[empty magnet]

on jah

[molten ore]

^whos this dude

[rose grail]

better than chicago? check yourself into a methadone clinic

[molten ore]

is that DK

[empty magnet]

you don't now good food until you wake up in the middle of the night screaming general tsos chicken

[stiff fossil]

bro you guys call casserole pizza

[wraith sphinx]

its esra

http://puu.sh/IIzD6/252d3f5e4a.png

[molten ore]

lm,faoogfofofogf

[wraith sphinx]

only guy i have blocked on RH

tbf i had DK blocked for a while too

[stiff fossil]

am I next?

[molten ore]

wait so he's not DK

[empty magnet]

💪 last man standing

[wraith sphinx]

no

[empty magnet]

no i'm esra

[molten ore]

_>

[wraith sphinx]

it was like, hataro, deeny and esra joining all at roughly the same time during SL beta

and being all doom and gloom about rogue in wowgen every single day

[molten ore]

[empty magnet]

to be fair we were right

rogue sucked butt in nathria lol

[deep sleet]

i wasnt even in the rogue discord anymore because i had already dipped

[wraith sphinx]

and it basically developed like the three little piggies story, only esra is the pig trying to blow down a fortified bunker, while the others had at least some success (largely due to becoming smarter)

[dry night]

I don't think that's how that story went seli

[wraith sphinx]

i may have mixed fables and childrens stories a bit there

[molten ore]

deeny

[wraith sphinx]

idk chief, rogue seemed fine to me in nathria

[empty magnet]

was fine after buffs

other 2 specs so bad they had us playing outlaw

[wraith sphinx]

outlaw/sub were fine

[empty magnet]

[wraith sphinx]

was only assa that was trailing in the back

[steep rampart]

@proper veldt Ok think I have all this working now. Maybe.

[proper veldt]

[steep rampart]

Same profiles as those

[empty magnet]

how did necro lose dps

with the buff

[steep rampart]

This is with the other NF TO change

[proper veldt]

the overhang

[steep rampart]

Because it also got the nerf

[proper veldt]

being gone

[empty magnet]

oh this is with no overhang

[steep rampart]

Yes

[empty magnet]

@stiff fossil it covers the overhang btw

i was also right about that

using up all my karma today

gonna stub my toe tomorrow kekw

[wraith sphinx]

time to repost

[dry night]

So when they put it back in Necro will be better

[empty magnet]

yes

at least until 2 leggo

[dry night]

For two weeks

[empty magnet]

cucks us to the moon

[steep rampart]

I mean this is with single leggo yeah

[proper veldt]

@steep rampart I think I'm gonna wait for scari to fix the overhang thing again

since he said that it's intended to be there

[wraith sphinx]

yall nonbelievers

[steep rampart]

Obviously double leggo is still bad news for Necro

[stiff fossil]

I hope you do

[wraith sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-the-unicorn-shun-the-non-believer-gif-3479764

[stiff fossil]

your shit covenant almost ruined the 4pc for us all

don't wanna hear it

[wraith sphinx]

[dry night]

But hey there's a chance now at least

[molten ore]

buff the impact damage

[wraith sphinx]

yall be thanking me when you get to play necro during progression on non-st fights

[stiff fossil]

I won't

[molten ore]

[stiff fossil]

believe me, never have I switched necro and been like "damn seli thanks man"

[wraith sphinx]

the clouds will part and youll finally feel the warmth of the light on your cheeks as you transcend and realize, that necro was better all along

[steep rampart]

I mean, I may not agree with Seli on a lot of things. But Necro being nice for prog is one of them. 🤣

[empty magnet]

makes sin a monster on cleave fights for prog which is dope

[steep rampart]

That's how you know it's either totally the right take, or really, really the wrong take

[stiff fossil]

it's usually "thanks koji and whispyr for putting numbers to the old man's ramblings"

[dry night]

Hmmm is this one of those moments in RPGs where I can gain favor with someone in exchange for minus with another

[wraith sphinx]

http://puu.sh/IIzPB/924459d934.jpg

[molten ore]

[wraith sphinx]

yeah you can either join the scryers or the aldor. the aldor are just basic bitches who think they have shit figured out, while the scryers are clearly superior and know in advance which covenant will be best.

[stiff fossil]

been waiting 15 years for this joke?

[wraith sphinx]

nah

[stiff fossil]

I respect the dedication

[wraith sphinx]

i was gonna go with oracles vs frenzyheart

woudlve fit better

[stiff fossil]

damn

don't do that to me

[wraith sphinx]

but then none of you remember those

[dry night]

I mean scryers don't give anything other than being better aesthetically though

[stiff fossil]

I miss wrath

[wraith sphinx]

you clearly have frenzy in your heart

[stiff fossil]

I was a frenzy boy

[wraith sphinx]

denying my prophetic wisdom

[dry night]

Aldor is the obvious choice

[wraith sphinx]

ofc

they had the toy

that made you a wolvar

which is kingbis

[wraith sphinx]

[stiff fossil]

only part of this I like is that nova's adorable

I hate the rest of it

[wraith sphinx]

she annoyed the fuck outta me today

[proper veldt]

good

[wraith sphinx]

always sitting in front of the screen i was watching

i hope frosty does the same to you

[proper veldt]

frosty has a lipoma he has his own issues to worry bout

[wraith sphinx]

oh damn

that fucking sucks ;_;

since when?

[proper veldt]

couple days

[wraith sphinx]

sorry to hear man 😦

he gonna get surgery to try to remove it or?

[proper veldt]

yeah

[stiff fossil]

can we send frosty gifts?

[dry night]

Does frosty like hichews

[proper veldt]

sure I guess

[proper veldt]

no

[wraith sphinx]

best of luck

i still remember my old kitty having one of her eyes removed due to a tumor, she lived a few more happy years. praying the best for you guys

[proper veldt]

[deep sleet]

so necro is BiS at 1 leggo 4pc which is going to be the case for like 10 people maybe

unfortunate

[wraith sphinx]

necro being slightly behind on a pure st sim makes it pretty competitive

[steep rampart]

Overall the change is probably about -100-200 dps if it doesn't get fixed. Not the end of the world, around 2%

[dry night]

Especially since early fights have lots of adds

[steep rampart]

Necro stays neutral so effectively gains roughly that much back

Passes Kyrian for 3rd, still a fair bit behind

[deep sleet]

prophet. how did i know

[dry night]

Yeah but it puts it more in the range of being able to sac some st for huge cleave gains

[wraith sphinx]

or survivability

[dry night]

And ranged option for movement which is niche but still nice

[deep sleet]

i only see that being a prog benefit on lords of dread and council boss

and council boss is early enough everyone will have killed it already

[dry night]

Jailer seems like it has lots of resets too

And soaks right

[deep sleet]

i severely doubt we will see a final final phase of the final boss fight will have adds

havent seen one in awhile

[empty magnet]

you sack like 0 st

for insane cleave gains

[dry night]

Yeah but if there's enough value in p1/2 then it's good

[empty magnet]

with necro

[deep sleet]

you dont care about p1/p2 of end tier bosses typically though

[dry night]

Yeah but if you're not saccing that much st then why not

Like sire p3

[empty magnet]

will prob have double leggo for

end boss tho

unless u like top 15 world guild

[deep sleet]

i mean im still thinking for general prog, not just my own. i still am not sure it would be worth

[dry night]

Ye I mean I guess we'll see

[deep sleet]

I already leveled necro on the off chance lords of dread is a good boss for it

i think that might be within the time window where necro is BiS lmao

[dry night]

Yeah I guess my viewpoint is less of Necro being bis and more of it being viable like it has been as opposed to completely dead on go

[proper veldt]

The newest PTR build has added SBS to the 4 piece bonus, but also has removed the overhang after vendetta. The overhang is considered a feature not a bug, and scarizard has already shown interest in reverting the overhang back to its original state. At this time, I will not be resimming my whole spreadsheet for this change, but overall this change is about -2% across the board. Necro has gained a little bit, but doesn't impact any of the current rankings or recommendations. This quick comparison (image attached) from @steep rampart gives a little more insight for those interested in some numbers.

TLDR: thing bugged and necro gain a little but every cov is down a bit. Will resim once the bug is fixed. Everything stays the same currently.

[scenic saddle]

necro 📈

[elder bear]

Mmh

[elder bear]

I know that patchwerk Sims mean nothing but best assa setup sim 12k and best sub setup sim a lot higher 13.5k

It seems a lot more

[dry night]

Still more tuning coming it's fine

[lean glen]

ah i love me some drastic tuning changes right before the patch/during the patch!

[molten ore]

Hope you got double mythic Sylvanas daggers

[elder bear]

Neither one

8 month of farming

I think to be the only rogue in the world to have completed the mythic raid and still havnt dropp a sylv dagger

I would have It even Just for skin but blizz says me no all the time

[molten ore]

There’s quite a few rogues in the same boat

[fair flame]

its a pretty sad boat let me tell you

[molten ore]

[empty magnet]

it's pretty common tbh dagger acquisition is shit in general

i'll prob end this tier with 1 mythic sylv dagger having killed her almost 30 times

[rocky carbon]

ur joking right esra

you killed so early

[empty magnet]

not joking

took me till basically december/ january to even get my first one lmao

[rose grail]

the joys of no shared weapon types on a class that is typically 1-2 spots in a raid.

pain

[molten ore]

->bad design

[sacred sonnet]

PTSD flashbacks of Carapace in Ny'alotha

[nova solstice]

was there a class sharing the agi dagger loot? i cannot remember

[proper veldt]

no

[nova solstice]

well, on one hand, id like to say it is somehow glad to enjoy the privilege of devs developing weapons just for the class. Certainly, as it has been like this for a longtime, no body cares about the acquisition problem.

[molten ore]

[nova solstice]

On the other hand, in a sudden moment of clarity, oh, we can only use agi dagger and we need it twice.

[molten ore]

just play outlaw

ez

[nova solstice]

hey, im not complaining like that; was just following the glad thought

[molten ore]

[mint current]

in that regard i can see many people going to assa for dagger reasons also way more solid damage spread with no huge gamba like outlaw and sub

might even play it on some cleave bosses with necro+dusk progress weeks

[empty magnet]

it definitely seems stronger than sub on cleave bosses

like in testing it was way better on the council fight

[celest thicket]

did anyone simmed how will sylv 259 dagger look for assa, at which point is new raid weapon stronger for main or offhand

[rose grail]

they were run at some point. can search this thread. it’s not nearly as important on assa as it is on subt/yahtzee pirate

[sterile swift]

Iirc @wooden wharf has this sim.
Sorry for ping, just can’t locate it

[wooden wharf]

can't find it quick too, but you will replace the dagger way faster on assassination

unlike with subtlety/outlaw where you won't replace it in offhand at all

[proper veldt]

259 offhand sticks around for sin

but mainhand is like

insta replaced

[sand crow]

So, I guess the tier-set is loot spec unique? If we want to try both Sin and Sub, we need to farm 8 pieces to get 2x4p?

[proper veldt]

no

tier changes spec with you

just like the tier sets of years prior

kinda interesting actually since they said "tier will come back in one way or another, different from before"

and then they literally just did the same thing they've done for 15 years

and added a 2 piece and a 4 piece

and slapped it on raid bosses

[sand crow]

Oh? Really? Well that's great since I can't decide my spec 🙂
Then I can probably go Sin cuz it's a easier rotation for me during progress, then try Sub to squeeze higher numbers (since it's currently sims higher)

[rocky carbon]

they did acquisition different

[proper veldt]

I mean, I'd hardly call it different, they moved it to bonus loot (like they do for a lot of stuff after they removed master loot, which is also when they had tier last), and made it drop from vault, which like, sure I guess, such different

[rocky carbon]

vault and crafting is a clear catchup system which seems pretty different from the past to me

the base idea cant change or its not even tier sets

[proper veldt]

yeah the crafting thing is a neat catchup system

[rocky carbon]

its a modern iteration on tier sets

[wooden wharf]

set crafting unlocks quite late tho :/

[lone owl]

I have more fun on sin, I figure I'll do better and more consistent dps on a spec I enjoy and know well even if sub is simming better

[rocky carbon]

yup very true

[wooden wharf]

thats sadly a intentional decision on blizz side, we did give feedback to want it changed to be less proc dependent.

[scenic saddle]

sub sims higher right now and yet sin is on top

[wooden wharf]

sub does not sim that much higher and sin is more likely to get external buffs

so i wouldn't say that argument is fair

[elder bear]

sin is on top?

as the sims tells it dont seems like it is on top

or better than sub

dunno maybe im wrong

[wooden wharf]

the point missing is the statistic is heavily influenced by external cooldowns, and assassination is more likely to get them

[elder bear]

there is a doc for 9.2 externals?

[wooden wharf]

hence there is a bias in the wcl ranking.
Also as mentioned just above sin does not sim that much lower, frost set rly does a good job keeping it close to sub

minal does talk about the current patch, not 9.2

[elder bear]

oh

then sry my bad

[wooden wharf]

there is a gdoc for externals, it is linked in #subtlety-faq and #wow-general

[elder bear]

thought u were speaking about 9.2

[wooden wharf]

there is no wcl statistic on 9.2 yet, so you can't rly make a argument

[elder bear]

yap that was my confusion

[sand crow]

Well, I'm not that great of a player, especially on proc-depended actions, so Sin will probably be better for me during progress and before I learn the fights.

[wooden wharf]

possible, i think assassination did always offer a less punishing rotation what is a plus in my book

[sand crow]

Exactly, and for me pressing less buttons means more focus on timers and boss mechanics. Staying alive always tend to lead towards more damage done for me 🙂

[sudden hatch]

Guys, just being sure, duskwalker's patch is to be runecarved into ring with crit and haste missives, right?

[scenic saddle]

most likely yeah.

but you're only using that with 4pc

so it's gonna take a while

[sudden hatch]

Copy. Thank you. Writing it down. 😁

[proper veldt]

[stiff fossil]

Based on what exactly?

Why is assassination “likely” to get externals over a mage or a hunter or a warlock?

[wooden wharf]

the comparison he did was between rogue specs

[stiff fossil]

Rogue is never likely an external choice though

Regardless of spec

[wooden wharf]

the problem rly comes down to the way warcraftlog presents data

and how long the tier is, what makes the impact of external logs just higher

[stiff fossil]

So like yeah assassination benefits from PI and KA more, but the chances of a rogue getting that through prog is unlikely

[wooden wharf]

thats correct, people just think that assassination is stronger due to the current statistics

[stiff fossil]

People on that hopium

[wooden wharf]

i just tried to make people aware that assassination won't suddenly be noticeable ahead of subtlety due to "people performing just always better than simulations on assassination".

[sand crow]

So what you are saying is, if you actually can play Sub then you would probably push higher dps and dmg done than Sin?

[wooden wharf]

it depends on the boss, but assuming no externals likely yes

[pale roost]

The bleed overhang has been re-introduced to the tier set after the accidental removal of it recently.

Currently works properly in ptr as it should.

[true prawn]

does the overhang for a SBS cast during vendetta last indefinitely?

if it’s meant to last until the bleed expires, which sbs never does.. seems sick

[desert hull]

if it does it prob lasts till you refresh it

@true prawn

[true prawn]

hm that makes sense

[desert hull]

so if thats the case you wouldnt sbs again till vendetta/shiv

on the same target

[true prawn]

that makes sense ty

[molten ore]

@desert hull @true prawn nah I’m pretty sure it will revert to regular tick rate once either vendetta is done or the other dots run out not sure but I highly doubt it sticks around like that

[desert hull]

yea just what ifs

[molten ore]

Would be sick tho

[steep rampart]

I believe Cev confirmed it drops as expected when Vendetta drops

Basically that was why everything got messed up this build in general. It was functionality added specifically for SBS, but ended up applying to everything

And today's (or yesterday's) fix was just to make it not apply to other bleeds again

[molten ore]

Yeah I figured that was what happened

It’d be kinda broken if SBS stayed with extra 100% tick rate

Maybe it’d be good in ST

[steep rampart]

Following up on this, with the overhang restored for all but SBS we're looking like this for single legendary:

[molten ore]

That’s what we like to see

How bad does it fall behind for double legendaries?

[molten ore]

Dang it 😦

[stiff fossil]

POG

DEATHSPIKE 2 DPS?

[steep rampart]

Dat extra charge baybee

[molten ore]

LOL

[stiff fossil]

that's 2 more than I expected

[steep rampart]

Think of the extra Kevin uptime tbh

[molten ore]

That’s so sad

[stiff fossil]

I updated the pin in #assassination to reflect the numbers

[steep rampart]

So huge

[molten ore]

[steep rampart]

I'm checking in these fixes now, so I'm sure Whispyr can re-run everything now that the issues with the overhang are cleared up

[stiff fossil]

ty mr. kojiyama

[molten ore]

How about with the new exsang build cooking?

[steep rampart]

lol I fixed the bug Cev found, so will have to reevaluate at some point 😛

Most likely not gonna look good for Exsang believers

[molten ore]

We can’t have nothin nice

[desert hull]

almost tempting to play necro almost

[molten ore]

Still 400 dps behind

That’s bigger than it is now in 9.1 isn’t it

[steep rampart]

Well if you think about it, the 4pc is eating into the benefit of Exsanguinate since a large part of the gain is the haste snapshot and Vendetta already does that now

[desert hull]

but if we play necro we can get simp'd by kyrians

🤔

[mental barn]

I honestly can't believe 9.2 release got here without any sort of deathspike single target buff

[steep rampart]

I also have disabled the Deathspike bugs for PTR sims so can check how that shakes things out in cleave/DS sims tomorrow

(Or I guess it should show up in Whispyr's sheet)

[desert hull]

it should be a buff for aoe ehh?

@steep rampart

[steep rampart]

I mean, it can't be anything other than positive since it was fucking up a lot of refunds 😛

In Whispyr's current sims for DS Necro

Can see it's wasting at least 12 refunds just due to the bug

Without the bug it looks like this:

Gains ~500 DPS in DS

Necro 4p Base - Sin T28 : 12507 dps, 0 dps to main target

Using Whispyr's profiles that were previously:

Necro 4p Base - Sin T28 : 12029 dps, 0 dps to main target

So it's around a 4% gain in DS

[stiff fossil]

ye kind of a chunky gain

[true prawn]

bummer, but good to know, ty!

[nova solstice]

I think this is for 5min ST right? Is it possible to share the link for full report?

[steep rampart]

It's local sims, change is not on raidbots yet

Until tomorrow

[nova solstice]

you're wonderful!

[elder bear]

quote, honestly i think this is isnt even so hard to "fix" since you can do something like "second spike throwed deal 1/2 of damage and the spike throwed on the main target is buffed by 25% of dmg" i dont think is to hard to do.

or somethig similar as rework of the leggo, in this way this isnt just giga broken in cleave and didnt give 0 dmg on st.
I think is fair

[nova solstice]

i think the problem is that this is not a problem.

[elder bear]

y maybe

[nova solstice]

Hi Koji, is it possible to show Necro's talent and soulbind choices?

[steep rampart]

I believe Whispyr's profiles were using Bonesmith

[sterile swift]

I thought it was Kevin

[steep rampart]

Whispyr hates Kevin

[sterile swift]

Unironically though - I legitimately thought it was Kevin

Ik but I think Kevin sims higher next tier

[wooden wharf]

poor kevin

[steep rampart]

I think Bonesmith might be slightly ahead still

[sterile swift]

It could be. But think about the extra spikes! The Kevin value

And I’m also remembering like first round of sims too so a bit could have changed

[steep rampart]

Well with single legendary sims you won't have the extra uptime

Possibly it is close enough to pull ahead with double legendary as the only real value from that

[sterile swift]

Oh I was going for full t4+double legendary

Not initial. Initially, it’ll surely be heirmir still

But every time I’ve said surely I’ve been wrong

Nope you’re right, it’s heirmir for all of them on his spreadsheet

[nova solstice]

Okay, thanks

[sterile swift]

On whispyr’s sheet it is bone smith

[proper veldt]

No I just hate everything

https://tenor.com/view/bipolar-im-always-angry-incredible-hulk-hulk-mark-ruffalo-gif-5678779

[sterile swift]

I too haste

[proper veldt]

Fuck you

And autocorrect

[sterile swift]

I’m ready for it, when and where

[thick star]

necro get a fucking 2 singletarget dps from its leggo

[sterile swift]

Yeah

2 extra charges let’s go

[stiff fossil]

Huge damage

[proper veldt]

And it’s still semi competitive single target

[stiff fossil]

You’re competitive in single target

[pine karma]

Wait what did i miss? did something happen to SBS? :S

[proper veldt]

Works with 4 piece

[pine karma]

Oh, does it really affect any standings between the covenants though?

and 1 leggo and 2 leggos

[proper veldt]

No, that’s why the pins say it doesn’t

[pine karma]

I feel rather stupid now.

[raven rapids]

potentially a dumb question, but for 9.2 are stats impacted at all with the loss of dom shards? trying to assess what would be best to take out of vault

[sacred sonnet]

Crit loses a good chunk of value with the loss of the Frost set, but it's still up there with Haste.
So Haste > Crit is your go-to.

[thick star]

just wish it was mastery and haste

😦

[plucky minnow]

does the pin from 2/11/2022 include 2nd leggo or just tier?

[proper veldt]

both

the highest simming tier double lego profile I had was 12356

that profile lost 200 as per the pin

[steep rampart]

If you didn't see my note yesterday, this should be fixed up to match the current PTR state in the nightly now

[proper veldt]

yep

that's why I'm making the profile atm

:P

[plucky minnow]

doesn't sin sim at like 12.2k now. Did they lose damage or something going into next tier

[proper veldt]

yeah they lost 15% damage

[plucky minnow]

RIP LMAO

[proper veldt]

I think it's called dom sockets

or something

[scenic saddle]

yeah it's called frost shard being stupid op

[proper veldt]

frost set?

[scenic saddle]

[proper veldt]

idk

I've never heard of it

[versed rivet]

Hang in there whispyr

[plucky minnow]

i knew frost was strong, didnt think the tierset would be worse than frost lmao

[scenic saddle]

tier set is not weak

frost set is overtuned

[proper veldt]

the chrome tabs are multiplying

[steep rampart]

You have now consumed 67 GB of RAM

[proper veldt]

I also have wow and poe open though so I'm inflating it by like 8gb

[scenic saddle]

64gb ram

[steep rampart]

I mean how else is he gonna have all those tabs?

He's not even done yet

[proper veldt]

I also do music stuff and keeping synths and audio files loaded requires a lot of ram

I have a 128gb kit of 3600mhz ddr4 sitting on my desk when I upgrade cpu

too lazy to get a new cooler, since it's blocking a slot atm

[scenic saddle]

watchu gonna get

[proper veldt]

waiting for next gen ryzen

[scenic saddle]

[raw thunder]

sup whisp

minal

[proper veldt]

the tabs are getting worse

[sacred sonnet]

They're breeding

[scenic saddle]

waddup vita

[raw thunder]

there there friend

soon itll all be over

nm minal whats poppin

[scenic saddle]

farming currency to fund a build

[raw thunder]

huh? on path or somethin?

only game i can think of rn where u would do tht lmfao

[scenic saddle]

ya

[raw thunder]

what build

i got 4ex from a heist earlier

based

[scenic saddle]

hollow palm farming to transition into int stacking wanderer

[raw thunder]

lfmao

[scenic saddle]

need 110 more ex

[raw thunder]

lmfaooo

[scenic saddle]

[raw thunder]

uhhh what gems u need i got a few 20 quality ones u can buy?

hc right?

[scenic saddle]

indeed HC

[raw thunder]

lmfao

ur fuckin gaming bro

character check:

if i dont see a banner on ur avatar were throwing hands minal.................

[scenic saddle]

[proper veldt]

#901047290242957332

[scenic saddle]

SAWWY

[raw thunder]

sowrry :c

[molten ore]

Generating Loot for Assassination...

bless the box

[deep sleet]

all of those were words, i can tell you that

now i know how my dad feels when i tell him anything about wow

[molten ore]

do we open the warrior or rogue box first

[versed rivet]

Gl

[molten ore]

HOLY SHIT

[pale roost]

[molten ore]

#2

we did it boys n gals

[proper veldt]

#assassination

[molten ore]

this dagger will be very relevant in my 9.2 adventures

srry

[proper veldt]

in other news

wtf is this shit

strength leather helm

[molten ore]

[pale roost]

oopsie

[raw thunder]

lmfao

[proper veldt]

@steep rampart how do you feel about this image

necro broke 30%

[molten ore]

[rocky carbon]

wait what

[molten ore]

stop playing with our hearts whispyr

[rocky carbon]

are we really simming near 16k with full gear

[proper veldt]

yes

[empty magnet]

sounds about right

enhance casually simming for 18k

[rocky carbon]

oh wheres sub at lol

[proper veldt]

about 200 above that

[molten ore]

only 200?

[rocky carbon]

200 above us or enh

[molten ore]

pog

[proper veldt]

above us

[empty magnet]

looks like i'm gonna be a sin gamer for farm

[rocky carbon]

cool

[molten ore]

pog

[proper veldt]

let me yoink some top gears

[molten ore]

sin tier baby

[proper veldt]

hold on

I'll link

[rocky carbon]

wait whats nf

[proper veldt]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wAY3E3gqUnfayPUbYQDpz5

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wWM6MnHWy1jJM4VpZ4LNcr

[empty magnet]

that's still kind of concerning though

[proper veldt]

have fun

[empty magnet]

did you see the enhance sims whispyr?

[proper veldt]

yes

[empty magnet]

they got a bunch from like 16-18k

[molten ore]

venth sub?

[empty magnet]

a 2k st diffy when your spec is only good at st is kind of

[rocky carbon]

wheres nf at

[proper veldt]

don't look at the name

[empty magnet]

oofers

[molten ore]

ahh

[molten ore]

which cov's are these?

[proper veldt]

this is with lego @rocky carbon

[molten ore]

nf and kyrian?

[scenic saddle]

Sohlea trinket

[proper veldt]

yeah?

of course

sohlea is insane

anyway

I have to get back to simming

don't go ape shit

[rocky carbon]

im so confusoed

[sacred sonnet]

Yes, you are

[molten ore]

whyo

[rocky carbon]

we have to play vers mastery shoulders

🤢

mastery crit ring

Thinkge

[molten ore]

watch that not be full BiS though Ag

you never know 😉

[rocky carbon]

don't worry I'll be checking

[molten ore]

😈

mastery gewd ag

[proper veldt]

the stats on all the tier set items changed on ptr today through a hotfix

so I'll inevitably have to rerun this whole shit

[molten ore]

oh fuck really?

[rocky carbon]

i'll find every 10 dps gain possible

[molten ore]

the sets aren't all crit haste now? 😦

[rocky carbon]

i never even got the belt i simmed so hard for lol

[molten ore]

LOL

[rocky carbon]

could get it tomorrow maybe

[molten ore]

i didn't get shit tonight in reclear

[rocky carbon]

when we do sylv

[molten ore]

besides Int dagger xmog

i got 2nd daggie from vault tho

no complaints

[steep rampart]

lol what was it at before? 28%?

[proper veldt]

yeh

it was

very high

[steep rampart]

I guess it goes nicely with our 51% class passive of needing ridiculous mechanical buffs to keep up with everyone else because baseline damage is not that great

[proper veldt]

the % is also rising

now that I have a t28 profile

scaling

[steep rampart]

Other specs getting up to ~18k sims atm 😄

[molten ore]

[steep rampart]

@proper veldt Guessing you didn't check Countermeasure?

[proper veldt]

no, that's not part of my profiles atm

could add it but probably not even worth thinking about anyway until we get raid trinket implemenation either

trinkets kinda placeholder atm

[steep rampart]

Legion TW on the 15th

So it's definitely gonna be plausible for even prog for most folks

[proper veldt]

yeah

idk

I would hardly call these prog profiles though

[steep rampart]

Well even more of a reason they would be in this profile if it's better 😄

But yeah I get trinkets are not in a finished state atm so doesn't really matter

[proper veldt]

def will add when we get closer

I have to rerun all this shit anyway when stats shuffle around

[proper veldt]

Spreadsheet is updated

with t28

go nuts

[empty magnet]

time to riot

[rocky carbon]

Wow dude kyrian really sucks

And you said head is technically better than wrists just a little bit

But that would depend on the changed stats anyway huh?

[steep rampart]

D70-D72 calculations have a wrong reference I think

[proper veldt]

fixed

[wooden wharf]

nice 👍

[oak aurora]

that's good to know

[wintry talon]

do dreamweaver and regular cheatdeath trigger at the same time?

[pale roost]

Sometimes

[stray quarry]

I wish Blizzard would fix that. On my fire mage that's not an issue. It always triggers separately. Cauterize first, then pod.

[mint current]

cheat death has this 0,1-0,4 secs where talent pops but dr does not