9.2 Feedback and Discussion

[molten ore]

But

Science

[pale roost]

time to farm the azerite pieces again

[steep rampart]

But what about with 3x Double Dose Azerite?

[pale roost]

3x double dose with doomblade

damn

[steep rampart]

Spam Mutilate baybee

All day long

[pale roost]

mutilate city

[sterile swift]

One button rotation

Mut only

No finishers, only mut

[steep rampart]

Venom Rush time?

😮

New meta

[feral echo]

maybe throw in a SnD now and again

for the buff

[sterile swift]

Ahhh mb

We’ll have to envenom to keep snd up

[steep rampart]

Nah still gotta Envenom because we need poison chance for DD

[sterile swift]

[feral echo]

was a nice run bois, gg

[steep rampart]

Master Poisoner/Venom Rush god build

[sterile swift]

And I guess we need energy regen

[maiden goblet]

year of the spike

[sterile swift]

Koji really on the dark tech rn

Let’s not go that far

[steep rampart]

lol

I mean the scariest part of this whole thing is not the talents

It's having to farm Azerite

😛

[sterile swift]

My comment was to year of the spike

[rose grail]

just restore it

[sterile swift]

“Champion!”

[maiden goblet]

Sbs is based

[tepid sky]

👀 doomblade

[steep rampart]

But yeah very unlikely it beats Dusk but it's interesting anyway

Good for when we get a 3rd legendary in 9.2.5

[sterile swift]

I love Necrolord

But loving is also letting go

[molten ore]

running Necro+CT on Sire was probably the most fun i've ever had playing this game so far

[rose grail]

Necro will finally get a second legendary in 9.2.5?

[raw thunder]

shit man

thats deep

[stiff fossil]

ye its going to be wicked

[scenic saddle]

[frail sluice]

whats the 4 piece for assassin? people are telling me it got changed but they arent sure to what

[pale roost]

It did not

[frail sluice]

still 100% bleed faster?

[pale roost]

yes

[raw thunder]

staby staby

[frail sluice]

cool

[elder bear]

[weary nacelle]

Genuinely triggered were on tier piece with monk and warrior

Gonna get a trillion sham/pal/priest tokens, leaving rogue/monk/war fighting over scraps

[rocky carbon]

i figured we would be

just like nathria

[pine karma]

They really need to remove externals from WCL lol

I was just looking through stuffs and people are running 25 to 50 externals per fight 😄

It's getting silly at this point :X

[steep rampart]

WoW team says it’s a community problem. WCL team says it’s a WoW dev problem. Everyone not getting externals gets screwed by neither willing to do anything about it.

[scenic saddle]

It shouldn't take WCL devs any time to filter externals though

[steep rampart]

They aren’t really interested in supporting anything related to it from the sounds of it. And definitely aren’t interested in a buff-less ranking even though it gets asked for regularly. Kinda a head scratcher if you ask me but both sides seem to be rather stubborn about it atm.

[scenic saddle]

[steep rampart]

Usually this time in the tier is when I’d be omega tryharding for all-star points but hard to care when things are like this.

I know I’m not alone in that stance. It’s a shame but oh well.

[rose grail]

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/external-remover/ljbijnfoanpelpooaekjelcknbiheocd

[weary nacelle]

Honestly shocked blizz brought externals back since they were always so hated

[wraith sphinx]

I dont recall people actually hating externals

The game has just changed a lot, has become more CD-heavy than it used to, so an external during your CDs now is way more impactful, than it was all those years ago.

These days, you triple or quadruple your sustained DPS during CDs, leading to ridiculous amounts of bursts and a large part of your overall damage happening just inside your CDs. That wasn't always the case, you have to remember that Vendetta, a 30% Damage amp, used to be one of the strongest CDs in the game back then.

[wooden wharf]

people wouldn't mind externals if the damage gain was awarded towards the player who provided them

or seperated in logs

[wraith sphinx]

Getting PI back then didn't lead to a damage gain of ~10% or so, it was quite a bit lower.

[wooden wharf]

the two reasons i think people dislike externals are that the wcl ranking depends on it
and that it can become stupid with focusing to many externals on one specific player

[wraith sphinx]

So Externals felt like a bonus, not a mandatory thing to parse.

Yeah

The attitude has also changed a lot towards a parsing culture. Back then, people didn't care nearly as much about it, so you didn't mind when someone else got the DI/PI or Frenzy

[wooden wharf]

i don't think the playerbase has a lot of fear of it, but externals could lead to some extremes that break encounter dynamics

but we will see in the wfr i assume

[wraith sphinx]

Now that all classes do roughly the same damage (within a certain margin, ofc), externals are more impactful and not having them for yourself when you're one of the classes that can use them, usually means your DPS is far behind everyone elses. The game wasn't like that for a long time, where pure-DPS classes had vastly higher DPS numbers than hybrid/"support" classes that provided externals.

[wooden wharf]

Having externals always on the class with the most benefits def. ends up in a unequal environment.

[wraith sphinx]

I certainly don't remember us rogues having an issue with giving tricks to whoever benefited the most, instead of just sharing it between rogues. Sometimes those were the same people, but I also gave my tricks to mages or warlocks at times, or boomies in Firelands

Main issue is that receiving a full set of externals now, means you do 20-30% more dps. That wasn't the case with the old externals, or rather, the same externals in an older version of the game.

[wooden wharf]

Solution could be to make externals lower in impact

[wraith sphinx]

Nah

The problem is that CDs are too powerful.

Just nerf CDs, make the regular rotational gameplay more impactful again

Cause the burst-heavy CD gameplay we have now, causes a lot of issues in a lot of other areas as well

From raid design and waiting for CDs before phasing bosses, to the M+ meta being solely based on what classes have the most frequent/strongest CDs, to boosting up a class even more with externals. It all boils down to it at the end

[pine karma]

FFlogs does that. They have 2 different metrics for DPS. You have aDPS = Raw dps with externals and raid buffs and rDPS that removes buffs from players and gives it to the person who casted it.

So if you have a buff that gives 10% to the raid, during that window, 10% of the dmg that person is dealing is given to the person who casted the raid buff.

Thats why you can run support jobs in FF that have very strong raid buffs and still compete in dps.

[wooden wharf]

the fflog way def. seems like the best one to maintain a competitive dps ranking, but i think thats not as easy in wow

[feral echo]

the person who wrote the wowhead set bonus guide needs to edit the assassination bit

someone called RenataKane

[wraith sphinx]

@proper veldt

[proper veldt]

I’m gonna kill someone

@feral echo what post is that

[feral echo]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/2-4-set-bonuses-tier-gear-sepulcher-first-ones-tier-shadowlands#rogue-set-bonuses

this one

I guess its not pulling the correct info from the ptr notes or something

[scenic saddle]

tell them to fix havoc as well thanks

[wraith sphinx]

Nah, its typically just an include or linking mistake

[feral echo]

ah fair

[wraith sphinx]

Happens all the time when numbers get switched by accident or you have a typo

[proper veldt]

Oh I’m safe

That’s not my article

they’ve changed spell id’s like 3 times now

At first, everything was immortal technique

Like every single bonus for rogue

But the tooltips were all fine

So you had to make sure the immortal technique you were using was the right immortal technique

Out of the 6

[wraith sphinx]

yeah its a pain

[proper veldt]

And then at some point randomly before submitting a draft for I think the original tier set reviews, I think it was scarizard pointed out to me that it’s grudge match not immortal technique

And I was like oh no it’s just a tooltip error I checked

Check again, still immortal technique

And then I turned the draft in the next morning, and it was the wrong immortal technique and it got renamed to grudge match under different id’s

[wraith sphinx]

[proper veldt]

So I had to go through and change all the links to the new Id’s

[feral echo]

sounds like a backend nightmare of IDs 😄

[wraith sphinx]

we made custom includes for that type of stuff and i always gotta check if it actually links to the correct spell-id or not, its just annoying

[proper veldt]

It’s terrible

Every wowhead article you read, if there’s a legendary or an ability or anything at all that you can hover over

It’s just [spell=282517]

[wraith sphinx]

[proper veldt]

And if you don’t have a spreadsheets of abilities to reference

[wraith sphinx]

it reads nicely when you write it doesnt it?

[proper veldt]

You’re fucked

[proper veldt]

Therefore, we recommend [color=venthyr]Venthyr[/color], especially since the crit from [spell=14263] and the cp from [spell=26141] interact directly with [spell=27241].

[wraith sphinx]

[proper veldt]

Oh and the toggle switches

Technically the rotation should have little buttons like “oh if you have this talent this is how it changes things”

[feral echo]

fuck proof reading that lol 😄

[proper veldt]

Well guess what

That’s all one big list

[wraith sphinx]

yeah, rotational switches for outlaw took me a few hours

[proper veldt]

And you have to specify what button turns what off and on

So if you have a mutilate in list row 24

And you’re like shit I need to add ambush in row 3 now

Everything shifts down 1

So that mutilate is now 25

And the toggle switch is turning off something entirely different

So you have to go back to the switch and remap all the abilities to match up to the stuff it’s supposed to display

[wraith sphinx]

Thankfully I don't have to worry about the position, instead I gotta think about what needs to be turned on/off for a specific rotational line to be shown and hidden

[proper veldt]

I’ve spent 7 hours rewriting the opener logic for the sin guide

And I’m not done with it

[wraith sphinx]

[proper veldt]

I haven’t even started doing the rotational switches

[wraith sphinx]

yeah, i got a WIP for assa rotational switches lying around, not gonna finish that until 9.2 comes

cause its like 150 lines

already

at least for outlaw a lot of it is just "do this at 4+" and with a different setup it becomes "do this at 5+"

whereas for assa it changes the usage prio entirely

its just frustrating writing a long page and then you realize theres like 1 wrong spell ID

even after proofing 3times

[pine karma]

I think fflogs way of showing logs would be much better for the community.

[pale roost]

It's not possible for WoW though

It's not possible to count how much damage a Kindred Affinity adds to a spec

Or how much a PI gives

Or how much Focus Magic gives

[pine karma]

Why not?

[pale roost]

Because they are not % damage increases

they increase the stats of your character

which increase the damage you do with abilitiers

which increase the damage you do with other abilities

which increase the damage you increase by using your cooldowns

[pine karma]

Yeah, but they do that with dancers in FF.

[pale roost]

it's a snowballing effect

It's legitimately not possible in WoW

Not sure how they deal with it in FF, but it's not possible

in any sense of the word

[pine karma]

Dancers have a crit buff they slap on people. Somehow they manage to calculate it.

[pale roost]

FF must work differently in how the abilities and damage works in that game then

One single point of crit will affect most of your abilities, which increases the amount of combo points you get

the amount of finishers you do

the amount of generators you use

the amount of energy you get

like it's not as simple as

[pine karma]

I don't think its impossible. Hard? yes.

[pale roost]

"remove 8% of damage"

No, it's legitimately impossible

Because it's not a static number everytime

[pine karma]

Maybe your right, i don't know. I don't know enough about coding and shit like that. My point was that I think it would be healthier for the game if something like that was possible.

[pale roost]

Yeah, unfortunately it's not possible. Only thing which would be possible is filtering external logs and non-external logs.

Which is a good idea imo, but some people consider the griefing that might come with it a bad thing

And apparently it's a massive overhaul for the system, as per Kihra

[pine karma]

What's a Kihra? 😒

[pale roost]

Kihra is the creator of Warcraftlogs

He's previously mentioned that it would require double the computing power, hardware and introduction of long queues if he were to add non-external logs

and he thinks they'll be removed in 10.0 anyway

[deep sleet]

i miss when the only external that existed was focus magic for mages and it was always not worth taking

[wraith sphinx]

wdym

classic had amplify magic which boosted healer logs

[wooden wharf]

wcl/fflogs are from the same person, so they could work similar.
Also wcl already shows the "external buffs", the easiest solution is still to just create 2 categories

[weary nacelle]

I feel like blizz wants to double down on them based on their last statements around them

But reading too much into blizz statements has been a bad idea for awhile, their comms have been pretty bad until recently

[steep rampart]

Yeah reversing out calculations like in FF is just not possible in WoW since they aren't all just % damage modifiers

Which is why most folks have suggested just having distinct buffed and unbuffed leaderboards, but they are very resistant to that idea

[molten ore]

I mean if the community is going to continue to use WCL and parsing as a gauge of your skill on a spec, and a tool to view your personal improvement, etc. I don’t understand why they’re so against separate partitions. I can understand if it will just be too taxing on them to change it, but honestly external rankings just shouldn’t get official rankings to begin with IMO

But that’d probably bring it’s own new set of issues as well

[steep rampart]

I mean they are putting up a big resistance with concerns about processing power, etc.. although I think that is largely over-represented by them just because they don't want to do it. (This is part of the reason the healing rank memes popped up recently, since all DPS have HPS all-stars calculated and apparently that is OK processing wise...even though it's 100% irrelevant lol)

(Especially since from a performance perspective your ranking operation can be semi-merged as the sort is the same with and without externals as one is a subset of the other)

But then they also bring up other silly argument like "oh people will just troll people by casting externals on them" which is kinda 🤔

It is certainly unfortunate though because it creates some very odd situations for specs that are more heavily external-affected than others

It wasn't Assassination as much in CN, so we didn't care. But say DKs for example were basically in the boat we're in now, of having degenerate parsing and being frustrated all the time if they weren't in external-heavy comps.

As you say, it makes it really difficult to evaluate people with logs as a tool right now because it just shoves everyone down. It's less of an issue for the super high-end players. But the average parses can be pushed down enough that it looks really bad compared to other people in your raid.

[raw thunder]

ur just a king

[wooden wharf]

[steep rampart]

I mean I think it's more just that the traditional guide format is really not all that amazing for describing a priority list-based rotation like Assassination

[wraith sphinx]

It works, but its cumbersome to set it up

[steep rampart]

People kinda like the idea of something rote like what many specs have "just press 12311121112 👌 "

Which is just not much of a thing for us

Even people talking about openers seem to forget the most simple fact that Mutilate generates CP so randomly that you really can't count on having a fully consistent anything lol

[gray anvil]

3 CP Muts during MA

[raw thunder]

u love to see it

1 combo point when FoK in 8+ pull

u just loooove to see it :)

[molten ore]

Lol I am usually at or near the top in our raid, depending on the fight and mechanics received(Fatescribe) etc. Yet our frost DK parses for like 90-95 often and all my best parses are blue this tier. I know they could be better than blues without externals, I just cba farming stat gem sockets and other small upgrade stuff. But yeah the gap has just widened greatly this tier in comparison to last.

[weary nacelle]

How do we want to use vanish with set plus double leggo?

Would it be vanish garrotte before vendetta to just make the empowered gar to tick down faster?

[versed rivet]

Thank you

[proper veldt]

before the vendetta?

With the original subterfuge garrote still ticking?

Why would you overwrite it

Just vanish when the first one falls off

[weary nacelle]

That’s what I ment

Just like after the first one falls off

I worded it poorly

[plain cypress]

What slot are we playing dusk in?

[rocky carbon]

most likely ring but not 100% yet

[pale roost]

Probably boots tbh

Jk, probably ring

Unless??

But legit, don't craft your legendaries yet. You only need Dusk when you get the 4p, it's dead before that

[elder bear]

goodmorning everyone, i have a question, if we play nfae in 9.2 the talent build should be with subterfuge cuz its more valued on st right?

instead

if we decide to play other covenants we should play with MA

is it right?

[rocky carbon]

no

subterfuge is good next patch because of our tier sets

[elder bear]

ok but once i get the set and the double legendary, i have to play subt even in st if im nfae right?

[rocky carbon]

subt is better once you get 4 set

[elder bear]

thanks friend

[pale roost]

You play Subterfuge everywhere with the tier set.

[elder bear]

oh thanks

thought it was only for nfae

[pine karma]

Nice for m+

[obtuse rain]

So with Sub, we what, vanish then garrote?

[stiff fossil]

Yup

Garrote then ambush

[obtuse rain]

ugh, fuck .. we ambush now

I forgot

[indigo surge]

Isn't Mutilate after Vanish/Garrote still better for possible 4 combo points even when playing Subterfuge?

[dry night]

not in 9.2

[indigo surge]

what pushes Ambush ahead?

[dry night]

damage

[indigo surge]

k, but in current m+ content I still keep using Mutilate after Vanish/Garrote in a boss fight, right?

[dry night]

it's a slight gain to ambush currently but very minor

[indigo surge]

kk, will play around with both a bit to get a feeling

[weary nacelle]

Does sepsis give subterfuge garrote?

[proper veldt]

no

[stiff fossil]

No

[stiff fossil]

Don’t you have some path league to play

[weary nacelle]

I was memeing :(

[pine karma]

Looks dope though!

31min to release 😮

[weary nacelle]

Will exsang be good with 4set?

[scenic saddle]

yes

bis

[weary nacelle]

Huge

[stiff fossil]

No shot venom rush

Venomrush bis

[azure pilot]

I thought i was the only member of exsanguate copium club

[severe verge]

Real talk what do we… do with sepsis. is it just get an Ambush cast and call it a day

[hidden glacier]

yeah the stealth part of sepsis isn't really working right I think.

[dry night]

Yeah it doesn't work with stealth talents so it's just meh

[spare nebula]

It would be super cool if we could subterfuge-garrote with sepsis, maybe someone should mention that to the blizzard

[dry night]

From what I understand sepsis used to put you in full stealth but that caused issues in open world content so they changed it to what it is now, which is you get a stealth ability but it's kinda useless now since up until this point ignoring the proc was more dps than even using ambush

[stiff fossil]

yeah doomblade kinda ruined that in 9.0.5

[dry night]

it be like that sometimes

But hey i'm fine hitting ambush more often now if it'll do ok damage so it's chill

[pale roost]

@ Scarizard
We previously just left the Ambush portion completely unused because we used Doomblade, prioritized combo points more because, yadda yadda. We currently use Ambush from the Sepsis proc, but it's not super exciting. It's barely a dps gain compared to just letting it run out.

If you're talented into Iron Wire (the garrote silence/dr), you can proc Iron Wire from the Sepsis proc with a garrote, but it does not work with Subterfuge or Nightstalker whatsoever. Which is just really weird and inconsistent.

During Shadowlands ptr, Sepsis actually used to proc a proper vanish which allowed us to proc subterfuge/nightstalker/master assassin and whatnot, but it caused poor gameplay in Torghast and the open world, because the vanish would reset mob aggro as well.

Because the vanish portion was removed, I think a fair compromise would have been allowing the use of a single Subterfuge/Nightstalker empowered garrote, but it fell flat.

I think the original dev just kind of changed it because people were complaining about it and just left it as is.

Thematically Sepsis hits all the spots, but the Septic Shock conduit works in weird ways, because the damage of it starts high and then gradually lowers, which is a weird interaction with Sepsis, that has a big bonk at the end. Would make much more sense to allow Septic Shock to increase the damage of Sepsis, instead of starting high and getting lower.

Those are the 2 things I would do and I'm sure it would be more than enough to make Sepsis an exciting ability.

[weary nacelle]

Given how bleh NF was idk if they would have given it real attention. Must have been used by a tiiiiiiiny portion of players, so not worth spending time figuring out how to keep it DPS-viable when no raiders/m+ers were playing it anyways

[pale roost]

TL;DR:

1. Change Septic Shock to increase the damage of Sepsis, instead of starting high and lowering it. This promotes planning out cooldowns to match the bonk at the end of Sepsis.
2. Allow the use of a single Subterfuge/Nightstalker empowered garrote from the Sepsis proc. Currently it works with Iron Wire, but does not work with Subterfuge/Nightstalker.

[pale roost]

You say that, but Night Fae was the best covenant for all of 9.0.

It has been dead ever since Flagellation was reworked though.

[weary nacelle]

Was that 9.0.5?

[pale roost]

Yes, Flagellation was reworked for 9.0.5

[weary nacelle]

Rogue was so bad in 9.0 that I had to play warlock for prog

[dry night]

@ scarizard / haha you thought i was actually gonna do it

but yeah honestly either one of those changes would make nf feel better. like it's not bad by any means cuz it's just a press and forget button basically but ye not near as exciting as flag or sbs

[pale roost]

I don't think the Septic Shock change would be a drastic dps gain, just a great, welcome qol change.

The empowered garrote would be a slight gain, but nothing giga.

[dry night]

Yeah

The emp garrote on sepsis thing would make vanish a bit weird though cuz I think you would hold it until after the sepsis gar falls / in pandemic

Would be fun to play with but doubt it ever happens

[steep rampart]

I mean it was both broken in open world and basically impossible to tune the value of MA and Shadowdust

Don’t really have a massive issue with how it’s implemented right now but I think there was a big gap between how it used to be and where it is now that could be bridged somewhat ideally. But I wouldn’t really expect it at this point.

In theory the current method could be useful if Ambush was actually really strong but it’s still fairly meh.

Subterfuge and NS working would be nice. Question on if it should work with MA talent. But then you get into MA legendary, etc.

Honestly just shifting the damage more into the bonk and killing the Stealth part entirely would have probably just been better but who knows.

(Interactions with the Assassination talents alone don’t really help the other specs much.)

[rocky carbon]

wouldnt it also take you out of combat in open world which would be the problem?

super annoying

[steep rampart]

Yeah it was useless in open world because it would reset combat unless you mashed out of it really fast

[rocky carbon]

just like vanish in torghast

[proper veldt]

yeah I mean the easy solution imo is just buff ambush by like 50% and make it give 4cp

would make it feel huge, definitely worth using, and because we only cast like 10 of them in a fight ever, wouldn't even make that big of a dent in our dps

[dry night]

Buff the stealth ability sepsis procs in general

Would be cool

[rocky carbon]

Bsds

[proper veldt]

yeh I guess would have to add like "from stealth"

to avoid blindside being +15% dps

but it can be done

[steep rampart]

Yeah I think one of my earlier suggestions in CN was just slapping a damage modifier on to the buff

It would be very straightforward for them to do since it’s just done with an aura already

[proper veldt]

aura

we can go even further beyond

reach the heavens

I hunger for more aura

[dry night]

Just tack onto the sepsis proc itself. "allows a use of a stealth ability that deals +50% damage

[jaunty grail]

4p always worked on sepsis?

sepsis ticks 5 second in vendetta

[nova solstice]

sepsis is buffed by both 2p and shiv nature dmg?

[rocky carbon]

yes

or something like that

its just good with our tier sets

[proper veldt]

it is

and the 4 piece compresses it

which doesn't really matter

but gives us TO earlier into vendetta

which I guess is cool

[thick star]

any news on sbs being improved? or it's legendary

[deep sleet]

its a possibility deathspike gets looked at in some capacity in the next 6 months

i know that is literally the most vague answer possible, but we only kinda know that scarizard ASKED about the bugs associated with it

or if you mean by "being improved" in tems of throughput, maybe/maybe not we dont know about balancing

[wooden wharf]

Also unsure how much capacity they have left for 9.2 as the release crawls closer

having the obvious/bad bugs fixed would already make it a lot more appealing

[deep sleet]

yeah i was thinking even if scar sends a nice detailed report to a bugfixing person, it wont happen for awhile

[nova solstice]

So the 2.22 marked by Max is kind of real?

[deep sleet]

the release date?

[nova solstice]

yea, Max did a video explaining why it must be that week.

[deep sleet]

yeah its likely

[wooden wharf]

its just assumptions, but 22. feb or the 2 weeks after are the most likely dates

i am not sure how much stuff is announced in advanced but i assume a announcement for 9.2 should be this week if its rly the 22nd

[thin torrent]

where can I find that video please

[wooden wharf]

probably somewhere on his twitch under clips:
https://www.twitch.tv/maximum/videos

don*t see a popular clip, so unsure if its easy to find

[thin torrent]

found it, thanks

[raw thunder]

@thin torrent mind helpin me find it?

nvm found it

[wooden wharf]

just link it here, there are probably others who want to look it up too

[raw thunder]

https://www.twitch.tv/maximum/clip/InterestingBadDadChocolateRain-5KxIbaFTy8Fs7x85?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time

[gray trellis]

I don't get this, in one of his earlier streams he said they sign nda to not reveal release dates before blizzard does and here he pretty much confirmes it

[rose grail]

he’s speculating here. I’m sure he and lore know what they’re doing with it.

[wooden wharf]

it is not a "i confirm this date" but "this would make the most sense"

but it is playing with fire if he knows a exact date already

[deep sleet]

also using the blizzard calendar is pretty easy speculation

even if he just KNOWS the date, if all he does is show everyone the public calendar for everything, that couldnt be against the rules

[molten ore]

they don't usually know the exact date until 2 weeks before release

[wooden wharf]

we will know next week

also i think its dangerous to say that leaking is not gray area at best if you basically say the exact details

[azure pilot]

I did a few M+ runs on PTR with duskwalker and sepsis and realised I am more often then not forced to funnel into a single mob during vendetta windows, and even when bleeds on other mobs are about to fall off i cannot afford to switch targets or else I waste vendetta windows.

Like, I apply subterfuged garrotes, SnD, mfd into CT, fok into ruptures on few mobs, then go sepsis-vendetta-shiv on a single mob.

Now I'm usually so focused on this mob that apart from CT I cannot maintain other bleeds on other targets, hence energy issues(aside from occasional rupture snipes)

Is it normal?

[thin torrent]

ye it definitely feels weird

[wraith sphinx]

It's normal, and it feels awkward and bad, yes.

[steep rampart]

I mean it's always somewhat heartening to remember that Vendetta actually isn't that amazing of a CD and if you waste a few Vendetta GCDs it's honestly not the end of the world. Sims have shown it's better to continue to keep DoTs up in AoE if you are not regen-saturated. Like if you are trying to funnel, that's one thing (e.g. if that's your goal, and then you shouldn't feel bad about it.) but if you are concerned about total DPS only, casting other DoTs during Vendetta is often still good.

Of course this depends wholly on if you are trying to funnel a prio target or not.

When not using a priority rotation, the only case in the APL that avoids secondary DoTs that will get full value during Vendetta is when Vendetta+Shiv is up and there's still >2s left on Rupture

But as to when you actually put DoTs on other targets will depend on if you are regen saturated and how long they are expected to live as well.

If you're falling below regen saturation point due to not refreshing DoTs on other targets, that's definitely going to lower your overall DPS

And even lower your priority DPS in some cases

Even in a priority rotation you should put DoTs up to energy saturation point as long as Shiv isn't up

This was shown to be a DPS gain even when doing no damage at all on fights like Council and such

(Energy saturation point being ~35 energy/second combined from all sources)

[dry night]

Do we know what the energy saturation point will be with vendetta up in terms of # of bleeds ? Surely it won't still be 5 right

Since we're about global capped with just ST vend

[steep rampart]

Well it's still gonna be roughly the same energy/sec. You would just multiply your poisoned bleeds contribution on the Vendetta target by 2

[azure pilot]

Thanks for the inputs

[azure pilot]

Vendetta is the only reason to stick to assa. Only way i can dunk on other classes in damage

[weary nacelle]

The "not Regen saturated" bit though - I never felt like I wasn't nearing full energy during vend windows with 4set, is it still worth to off-dot?

[dry night]

I'm just thinking about prototype pantheon and how crazy that's gonna be. Council fights should be fun for sin not a source of anxiety xD

[steep rampart]

During Vendetta with 4pc you’d probably naturally approach it depending on haste.

But keep in mind that is still only a major thing for prio rotation. If all you care about is overall dps and cleave it’s still worth dotting even during Vendetta most of the time. Especially since Shiv is partially AoE now.

[nova solstice]

is it considered a bug that using ambush during both buffs of subt and sepsis would consume sepsis?

[proper veldt]

no

[nova solstice]

oh, ok

[steep rampart]

I would say it’s borderline personally

Considering they did change it so it didn’t consume from Vanish or Stealth, could make an argument here probably

It’s minor though

[pine karma]

I feel like sepsis should proc ma and subt

[wooden wharf]

thats a very old discussion but it makes more sense now than it did when sepsis was introduced

but nf is already rly powerful on assassination in 9.2

[elfin light]

Probably heard this question a trillion time but the search gave me nothing : do we know on which part we'r gonna craft our 2 legendaries when playing NF?

[dry night]

Not definitively but probably dusk on ring after 4p then recraft to another slot later. Starting out it's looking like obedience venth until then

Doomblade looks fine until 4p too I think

[sacred sonnet]

Yeah for the start of 9.2 we'll stay Venthyr and swap out Dashing for Obed, like Ice said we'll go Fae with the set.
We'll have a mich better understanding by then.

[pale roost]

The way ilvl and loot acquisition is looking like now currently, it probably doesn't matter much either way. On a bis profile with absolute bis gear, it's likely that we'll sac the chest piece from the tier set and use Duskwalkers on it because it's just more stats, but a ring slot is definitely more versatile. If you're unlucky with the tier set drops, you might be camping the ring for a while. It's probably a difference of less than 30 dps either way, so I wouldn't stress about it too much.

[wraith sphinx]

Don't you get all the mats back when you recraft a leggo anyway?

[sterile swift]

You do not

[dry night]

Yeah

[sterile swift]

Just the ash and stuff

[dry night]

I thought you did minus the gold

[wraith sphinx]

Ah okay. I'm guessing the gold is an issue for most people

[sterile swift]

Nop- at least not originally

[wraith sphinx]

Cause I was thinking you just recraft on whatever slot sims highest after you get a new piece of loot that covers your leggo spot

[dry night]

Yeah I guess it'll depend on if they refund flux off rip or not

[wooden wharf]

i would assume that they refund, would be quite annoying if they don't

[pale roost]

They definitely most likely probably will refund everything but the base item

But that's the issue for many

I'm a poor boy, can't afford to swapperino pepperino :'(

[wooden wharf]

tbh i am surprised they didn't introduce any mechanic to craft the baseline items cheaper

i did like legion with blood of sageras as a natural way to reduce item economy costs for players

[rose grail]

mission table is the “free herbs and stuff” just not crazy effective unless you have alts. supposed to have better leather returns in the patch so maybe that helps offset the kits and legendary pricing a bit.

[molten ore]

The cost to get into legendary crafting is insane

[pale roost]

Maybe with boosting communities dead, more people will have to resort to gathering herbs and leather, meaning overall cheaper legendaries.

Who am I kidding? Just buy a wowtoken if you run low on moolah

This man aint picking up a single dwarfweed

[wooden wharf]

tbh i saw the argument in this server enough that people shouldn't complain as its part of the game

but i don't understand it rly, i think having certain things accessible for everyone should be a key value

[pale roost]

Wow is a p2w game, unlucky

[lean glen]

just get richer

[desert hull]

imagine not having 3-4 gold cap toon from boosting when it was avail w the communities 😄 jk i feel really bad the communities got shut down. i too will one day be broke

[gray trellis]

I didn't expect boosting to be gone so I was spending a shit ton of gold on cosmetics

And I'm gonna be broke with 9.2 having to buy 2 legendaries with each costing at least 100k, can't really play other specs even unless you want to run low ilvl legos

[versed rivet]

You can still boost. Sold 5 keys yesterday

Just have to be on same server

[desert hull]

agreed

[pale roost]

key boosting

[gray trellis]

But you have to have an established team now and one of you have to advertise

[versed rivet]

I mean yeah it is a little extra work to get started. But the opportunity is still there if you want it

[elfin light]

dusk on ring seems fine yea, what about toxic onslaught? feet?

[dry night]

unity belt

[sterile swift]

Real

[weary nacelle]

Sin section so much more chill then sub

[wooden wharf]

assassination is gameplay wise a lot less hectic, i agree

or do you mean activity in the channels?

[lean glen]

PEWPEWAPWAWPAW GARROTE

[wooden wharf]

to be fair, once you have enough targets you get to a fairly high pacing

[weary nacelle]

Both haha

it’s just more relaxed

[wooden wharf]

you are correct with that, we have some strong personalities for sure in #subtlety

[rose grail]

the spec getting ignored in bfa will have that effect.

we choose violence.

[stiff fossil]

We’re just cooler than sub rogues

Unlucky

[wooden wharf]

nice pun 👍

i will enjoy my gambling addiction in 9.2

[stiff fossil]

Sub rogue the new outlaw

[thin torrent]

ok i did a bit of trolling and it actually sims 100dps less, tho I now know how to sim it properly so really who lost here

[elder bear]

i like all the rogue spec

but sub this exp seems not the same as before

i personally enjoy much to play with sin and sub for this exp

[wooden wharf]

the design direction for sub over the last xpacs are not my favorite ones

[azure pilot]

Sub in sub rogue stands for sub-human

[sterile swift]

We don’t hate on our rogue brethren

[wooden wharf]

to much, its fine to meme a bit but straight up insulting is not the play

[weary nacelle]

I see a lot of outlaw hate now and then

[stiff fossil]

Ye were not fans of warriors

[weary nacelle]

; P

[rose grail]

yahtzee pirate isn’t a rogue

just an aoe capped fury warrior

[desert hull]

😂

[stiff fossil]

Man how the tables have turned

[rose grail]

the truth is painful

bring back combat

[azure pilot]

I'm sorry i'm spending too much time in Fel Hammer

[pale roost]

If you craft dusk on ring, you craft unity on helm/chest/legs

[elfin light]

what about the tier set pieces?

[rose grail]

craft around whatever you get

recraft legos eventually

[pale roost]

You only use 4 out of the 5 tier set pieces.

[wraith sphinx]

says you

watch me use all 5

[pale roost]

https://c.tenor.com/vOJUA56q9TYAAAAM/badass-tyson.gif

[rose grail]

have to make up for only using one legendary as necrolord

[wraith sphinx]

gonna dab on all those nightfae nerds with a single legendary

[rose grail]

I live for this.

[weary nacelle]

does scari know about necro bugs

[molten ore]

yes

[weary nacelle]

nice, so maybe he has hope lol

[molten ore]

the list of said bugs has been given to him

[weary nacelle]

cool cool

[molten ore]

so we

[weary nacelle]

its actually the one cov i haven't tried

[molten ore]

it's easily the most fun covenant

the most interactive by far i think

[rocky carbon]

in st its pretty boring imo but its fun in cleave and aoe

but theyre all boring in st

[molten ore]

yeah i suppose it can be w/e in ST but

i much prefer having the extra button presses

agreed

[scenic saddle]

gemstone windows

[molten ore]

gemstone windows in CN were

[rocky carbon]

pressing sbs 2 times a minute

https://tenor.com/view/jhnnycrwsh-forsen-nymn-batchest-twitch-gif-24086134

[molten ore]

you're damn right

[scenic saddle]

pressing fun button twice in a min

or pressing fun button every 1:30

[molten ore]

i bet necro is really fun on like

the eye/soulrender/fate/KT

[rocky carbon]

idunno

for me it just feels like im pressing a different mutilate every 1 minute

the interesting thing with sbs is resets and whatever for me

[molten ore]

but it looks WICKED

i'm actually surprised more people don't come in #assassination asking about necro rotation as often

[rocky carbon]

because nobody plays it

[molten ore]

there's a decent amount of necro logs

[rocky carbon]

are optimizers playing necro?

[molten ore]

i think the only drawback would be playing doomblade 🤮

and yes

[rocky carbon]

the answer is no

[molten ore]

disagree

[rocky carbon]

please say seli

i need you to

[molten ore]

cev himself

was going to go into 9.1 as a necrotic soldier iirc

[scenic saddle]

yes I optimize fun

[molten ore]

i also know of 2 others personally that are very focused on their own performance/downing the bosses that haven't left necro since 9.0.5

[rocky carbon]

theres nothing wrong with being necro but the type of people that play necro are less likely to be asking questions in this discord

they exist

but they arent nearly as common

[molten ore]

true i suppose

didn't seli also prog as necro

idk

[rocky carbon]

maybe

but bottom line we get few questions because most people will come here and have venthyr slammed in their face

[molten ore]

[rocky carbon]

or look at logs and see the same thing

[molten ore]

b-b-b-but

everyone else is running ep+vigor so it's better r-r-r-ight

[rocky carbon]

you see less variety in cov than talents

[steep rampart]

Necro is totally fine. I did all of prog as Necro

Given that there were literally only 2 pure ST fights in the entire raid (Tarragrue and Guardian) not sure I really get the rotation arguments though

[molten ore]

rotation arguments?

[proper veldt]

some say lefty loosey

I say righty tighty

[steep rampart]

That it's "more boring" or whatever

[molten ore]

yeah very subjective i suppose

[steep rampart]

People getting their wine spiked by Renathal to believe that pressing 1 button every 90s and otherwise doing your rotation completely the same is significantly more interesting than pressing SBS 😛

[rocky carbon]

the main point was why we get less questions about necro

it literally doesnt matter

[steep rampart]

I mean the reason is just that the only Covenant that actually has a meaningful impact on ST rotation is Kyrian and Kyrian isn't very good

Venthyr, NF, and Necro you play like 99% identical

Keep DoTs up, mash buttons. Assassination gonna Assassination 😛

[proper veldt]

NO ACTUHALLY VERY DIFFICULT CAUSE THE BUTTONS YOU HAVE TO POOL AND THEN LIKE SATURATION AND I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT A LOT BECAUSE MY DOTS AND PANDEMIC AND I CAN REFRESH CT BEFORE PANDEMIC WHEN I HAVE 4.5 TARGETS

[molten ore]

yep you rightied that tighty

[proper veldt]

I have a ratcheting screwdriver

and it makes me look like an idiot

every time

[molten ore]

lmfaooo

[steep rampart]

I have a spreadsheet mapping out every DoT refresh for the entire Sylvanas encounter in advance

[proper veldt]

[steep rampart]

I don't

But that'd be cool

[molten ore]

i do

it's in my imagination land

[dry night]

cursed image

[tepid sky]

never thoguht i would see such a high def pepe

i dont feel so good

[tepid sky]

why

[sacred sonnet]

bc he's omae wu shinderu

[elder bear]

This spell Is so hot

The leggo Is not

[weary nacelle]

Is that the rock dressed up as ndt?

[azure pilot]

What do we take for night fae M+ next season? Triple potency Dreamweaver?

[sterile swift]

Korayn - first strike

[azure pilot]

[azure pilot]

So poisoned katar and well placed steel i guess? No septic shock?

[sterile swift]

PK pretty medium tbh.
Especially dungeon by dungeon.
My double up is usually WPS + LP

[azure pilot]

ok. in PF and ToP it would be LP or else PK i think

[molten ore]

I think we definitely take LP > PK

Wasn’t the 2P made to buff poison damage?

[azure pilot]

Yeah forgot about that

[dry night]

2p buffs the deadly dot, LP only buffs the instant portion (part that does actual damage) I believe. LP is still better overall....even more-so on korayn first strike

PK would be nice if it gave more than 5% crit and / or FoK wasn't like 5th-6th damage in m+

[raw thunder]

sup ice

[dry night]

hiya

[pearl steeple]

Are secondary stat weights mostly staying the same for 9.2? Or is crit gonna lose a bit of value with the loss of the frost set?

[dry night]

Haste>crit

[weary nacelle]

All stats are closer together with frost gone too, though

[dry night]

We are so heavily stacking crit right now and that will change but not by much

[weary nacelle]

Mastery should go up in value to some degree with 2 and 4 piece.

[dry night]

And tier makes mastery a bit better but still not better than haste crit

[pearl steeple]

Gotcha, tryna get all these leggo options farmed up and wasnt sure if i needed to stray from the haste/crit missives

[devout plank]

Has anyone done sims or anything to figure out where we are going to slot legos like duskwalkers and doomblade etc with the addition of tier piece? (trying to plan ahead and buy some mats while they are cheap for upcoming patch).

[dry night]

Also you're gonna have to recraft anyways

But probably start with obedience or doomblade, whichever you already have, then craft dusk on ring after 4p and use unity belt, then recraft everything once you can optimize slots

[devout plank]

yeh duskwalkers wasn't in pins which is why i asked

getting mats for rank 4 bases and the new consumable item while they are cheap. prices are gonna skyrocket when people actually start crafting shit

[dry night]

Weird it's right there for me

[devout plank]

show me where that says which slot lmfao

exactly

[dry night]

Dang Lakers fans these days be on something else smh

[devout plank]

you tried to make me look dumb lmfao

[proper veldt]

dusk on ring

[devout plank]

@proper veldt ty ty

[past smelt]

so it vamp then NF later that what set in stone

[proper veldt]

yes

venth until 4 pc double lego

then fae

[scenic saddle]

necro 4p single leggo gang

[proper veldt]

[past smelt]

hmm0.5 dps diffent i like it no NF for me lol

[proper veldt]

yeh until double lego

[nova solstice]

Hi Whispyr, would zold be any better for like 4 targets exec critical rush boss fight?

[empty magnet]

man necro would actually be so bussing if deathspike wasn't gigatroll

[sterile swift]

AYO

[tepid sky]

seems to be fixed now, deathspike

[nova solstice]

deathspike fixed in PTR?

[tepid sky]

yep

[digital aspen]

which piece we using Dusk on?

[proper veldt]

Ring

To not conflict with tier

[vast cairn]

What was the bug with sbs anyway?

[empty magnet]

it sucks

buff deathspike

[eager sigil]

Since I’m blind are there any sims with and without sylvanas dagger

[proper veldt]

No

Sylv dagger offhand good

Sylv dagger mainhand bad

[eager sigil]

Thanks

[proper veldt]

[elder bear]

they wont rework deathspike i guess

[wooden wharf]

bugfixes already make it a lot more appealing in settings with multiple targets

[thin torrent]

they removed vendetta snapshotting

[steep rampart]

How do you mean?

[thin torrent]

when vendetta is finished now on PTR your rupture / garrote etc go back to full duration

[rose grail]

and the channel goes into panic mode

[steep rampart]

I'd need to test to see how exactly it works

I don't really know if there is a great way for them to make it just go back to normal without doing something very strange so the whole thing will need to be tested carefully for potential side-effects

[rose grail]

i’m just shocked no one noticed this yet

[thin torrent]

thats kinda giga sadge

[pale roost]

Okay time to launch ptr and start testing then I guess

[steep rampart]

Kinda wonder if it just does an inverse snapshot at expiry time but who knows

[pale roost]

If Vendetta = on, then bleed rate = 2
If Vendetta = off, then bleed rate = 1

ez

i'm a coder

massive programmer brain

[desert hull]

[pale roost]

[steep rampart]

The rub will be if it still has the Exsang-style Haste snapshotting on expiry too

[pale roost]

Anyways, let me test it out

Yep

[steep rampart]

Or if it goes back to normal dynamic ticks

[desert hull]

[pale roost]

Sepsis didn't give Ambush either

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[thin torrent]

[wooden wharf]

🍝

[steep rampart]

Well that doesn't sound right 😛

[sterile swift]

HOL UP

NF disabled for 9.2

[thin torrent]

rogue disabled for 9.2

[pale roost]

Scari did ask what to do about Sepsis previously

[thin torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/delete-erase-not-worth-forget-it-clean-slate-gif-8510937

scari

[steep rampart]

I don't think any of the spell data changed for the buff though

[pale roost]

Give me like 20 minutes and I'll compile any and all info I find out

[sterile swift]

[pale roost]

Oh it did

But Sepsis is affected by the 4p now, so it was just super duper quick

[sterile swift]

Oh bless up

Wait

[pale roost]

So Shiv - Sepsis

[sterile swift]

The 4p reduces the timer? I’m sure this is old news but I’ve been lackin

[thin torrent]

it was always like that though wasnt it? at least as long as I have been testing it on ptr, it popped like real quick

[rose grail]

sure.glad they fixed deathspike

[steep rampart]

That was added in the last build

For Sepsis

[wooden wharf]

it does not sound unreasonable that one of the deathspike fixes would have unexpected side effects

iirc they already rolled back some of the fixes last time they tried to fix it

[thin torrent]

the spaghetti

[obtuse rain]

Not necessarily, no

Their code is structured and has a design guide to writing code, it's not "spaghetti code"

[sterile swift]

Let me tell you how niya herbs works friend

[obtuse rain]

That's not spaghetti, that's fucked. Spaghetti code has an actual meaning

Spaghetti code is when things are unstructured and are hard to maintain because there's no style rules

[thin torrent]

ok

[wooden wharf]

Palmer, its a joke. If something breaks unexpectedly we refer to spaghetti code

[obtuse rain]

I know - but I'm a dev and it has an actual meaning

I'm just sayin'

[thin torrent]

language be crazy huh

[pale roost]

It is true, the overhang is gone. Testing the snapshotting thing next.

[obtuse rain]

There's a "pasta theory of coding". This is a lasagna code issue

[wooden wharf]

in the end there is nobody here who has access to scripts and engine code directly, so nobody can give input how well structured it is

[obtuse rain]

Many layers built on top of each other that causes unintended effects 🙂

[rocky carbon]

Does overhang going away change covenant values

[wooden wharf]

But there is def. some unintended behaviour esp. when fixes where applied in the past by simply disallowing interactions

but lets just test and see whats working, so we can report it and get it fixed

[pale roost]

Doubt it because the strength is in the Sepsis/Shiv/Vend synergy

How would you test the snapshotting thing Koji?

[steep rampart]

NF and Venthyr were both kinda benefitting by having larger haste snapshots (blossoms and flag) for a longer time period

[pale roost]

my ptr ui is annoying

[steep rampart]

Not sure if it'll affect either one significantlly

I would see if you can pop some relatively large haste use right before Vendetta expires

Then cancel it after a few ticks

Like if you still have GCB or something

I can probably test in a few if you don't

[pale roost]

Yeh I'm trying with Flag but I'm struggling to look at my rupture number LUL

I have Celestial Guidance which is proccing

that's annoying

[steep rampart]

Don't worry, NF homies are gonna be ok. I found another 80 DPS or something from a TO interaction that I'm putting in tonight 😛

[pale roost]

The snapshotting thing stays

Just tried it with Flagellation and Obedience

[steep rampart]

So it's basically just a reversed Exsang

[pale roost]

Flag buff ran out, the damage stayed the same

welp

[steep rampart]

You have logs?

[wooden wharf]

make sure advanced logging is enabled on ptr, it was dissabled for me when i logged for subtelty testing

[pale roost]

Just tried it without Vendetta and without Vendetta it properly drops the value down after Flag drops

lmao

Dynamic outside of Vendetta, snapshotting during Vend

Don't have logs, let me get some

[pale roost]

Good shout

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1khR2J6MFjvTADVq/#fight=3&view=events&type=damage-done&source=8
@steep rampart

looking at the log, it looks like the snapshot is removed, however the tooltip in-game does not properly reflect it. (surprise surprise :P)

This is with Vendetta and Flagellation

This is without Vendetta, only Flagellation

[steep rampart]

Hmm I'm still not exactly sure what it's doing quite yet

[pale roost]

Just looks like it only benefits from the Flagellation dynamically and immediately drops when Flag drops as well

and the Vendetta plays no part in it

[steep rampart]

I may need to try to figure out a more extreme example

[pale roost]

Yeh

[steep rampart]

for the tick rate

[pale roost]

I don't have any other tools other than Obedience honestly

[steep rampart]

Got an idea, going to test right now

[pale roost]

Deleted all old trinkets and whatnot :P

Maybe trying with the Dreamweaver Flower blossom proc

[rocky carbon]

Could you try no alacrity

For a lowball

[steep rampart]

was gonna try Dreamweaver+GCB+stacked alacrity and cancel all of them 😛

[pale roost]

Good stuff

[pale roost]

I did

no ep, no alacrity, no subt/ns

[rocky carbon]

Damn

[pale roost]

rocking blindside, venom rush, master assassin

[rocky carbon]

lmao

Venom rush <3

[sterile swift]

Pain

[steep rampart]

Nice, got disconnected from the server right as I was in the final part of my test

[wooden wharf]

you broke the game :/

[pale roost]

rip

[steep rampart]

@pale roost still slightly inconclusive without a bigger haste snapshot (maybe I should get drums)

But this looks more like a reverse snapshot to me

[pale roost]

Well rip

[steep rampart]

Seems pretty locked in at 2x my Vendetta tick rate even though my unbuffed rate was 1.7

[pale roost]

Yeh

So it's just super duper janky

Your thing looks a lot better

[steep rampart]

Let me test what my tick rate is with all those buffs up before Vendetta

one sec

[weary night]

so how often do you need to refresh garrote/rupture while in vendetta in 9.2 w/4p?

[steep rampart]

So interesting thing here

With all those haste buffs up before Vendetta, seems like it's 0.6-0.7s

Which means the base tick rate with all the buffs should be 1.2-1.4

When Vendetta fades in my first test with all the buffs up, it only goes to 1.6

Which is double the previous rate

It if recalculated it should go to 1.2-1.4 as with my initial setup case

So it's neither going dynamic nor recalculating, it's just doubling the previous snapshot rate?

[proper veldt]

twice as much as normal

[pale roost]

[steep rampart]

So in that way it actually like... still snapshots haste at the same time

Just doesn't snapshot the exsang benefit

Whatever buffs that were up on the last cast will still be what is used

That's even jankier than I expected

[pale roost]

So pop all haste buffs before Vend

[steep rampart]

I mean it means we still basically do the same thing we would have done before with haste buffs

[pale roost]

Too bad Sepsis is the thing that gives us massive haste

[steep rampart]

since that'd be what we wanted to do previously anyway

[pale roost]

And we want that thing inside Vend

with Shiv

Pretty counterintuitive

[steep rampart]

We still basically gain the Haste value for the whole overhang

[pale roost]

Yep

Oh well

[steep rampart]

Just like old-school Haste snapshot style instead 😛

So what this means is NF shouldn't get hit disproportionately by the change

[pale roost]

The difference between 0.6-0.7 and 0.7-0.8 is pretty huge

[steep rampart]

Just the total DPS number will go down a little bit

[pale roost]

Seems like a small number, but that's quite a bit

[steep rampart]

from the overhang haste rate removal

[pale roost]

yehh

[steep rampart]

Blossom snapshot stays

[rocky carbon]

So the haste snapshots but the exsang effect doesnt

?

[pale roost]

Correct

[rocky carbon]

Interesting

[pale roost]

Pretty damn jank if you ask me

[steep rampart]

uhh

So I had a hunch why they might do something like this

[pale roost]

Necro? Deathspike?

[mental barn]

just assume all bugs somehow trace back to serrated bone spike

[stiff fossil]

[steep rampart]

So uhh yeah

Guess it works on SBS now

Not really gonna make a meaningful difference in terms of closing the gap but it's nice at least lol

[pale roost]

Yeh figured as much

[mental barn]

so that's the workaround to not recreating the infinitely speeding up sbs from beta

[pale roost]

There it is

[steep rampart]

Now the real question is

How much this breaks when I use normal Exsang at the right time

[pale roost]

[mental barn]

don't you go making exsang a thing

[stiff fossil]

stop trying to destroy the ptr servers

[rose grail]

make exsang great again

[stiff fossil]

exsang is a garbage talent

stop it

if anything make venom rush great again

[rose grail]

make combat great again

[stiff fossil]

TRUE

[proper veldt]

wait so if it snapshots haste and then doubles it after the vend runs out

and it works on sbs

[sterile swift]

[proper veldt]

are we back to the days of galecallers vita stack the haste into one fast sbs

[sterile swift]

@proper veldt I’ve found a gain on LBE

[stiff fossil]

[versed rivet]

To spires we go

[sterile swift]

[versed rivet]

Battery time

[proper veldt]

kys

[stiff fossil]

[sterile swift]

he’s saying he wants to kiss me

[stiff fossil]

who moderates the moderators?

[sterile swift]

It’s chill

[proper veldt]

kiss yourself miq

self love

[sterile swift]

[proper veldt]

very important

[stiff fossil]

stop bullying me because I hate myself

[sterile swift]

Very important mister whispyr you too king

[proper veldt]

kys now say it back

[sterile swift]

[stiff fossil]

you heard the man

[sterile swift]

I don’t think I can do that mister oxi

[stiff fossil]

don't call me that, that's my dad

call me Mikehawk

[sterile swift]

Ahhh apologies

[rose grail]

kiss your sister

[sterile swift]

[steep rampart]

Oh looks like at least that aspect works fine, it doesn't do anything strange when reversing it

Even with Exsang up

So that's good at least, no breaking servers 😛

[molten ore]

So they fixed the extra overhang dots at the end of 4p Vendetta? Or am I misunderstanding

[steep rampart]

Normal Exsang does nothing about SBS

So this is just for 4pc

[pale roost]

After Vendetta, correct.

There is no more overhang.

[molten ore]

That’s so lame

[pale roost]

gonna lose a bit of damage from this change

[molten ore]

Yeah 😦

[stiff fossil]

good thing our baseline is so strong right?

right?

[molten ore]

That was honestly my favorite part of next tier

[empty magnet]

Yea that’s cringe as fuck ngl

[molten ore]

Didn’t care about double legendaries or anything else

[empty magnet]

Was the best part of the tier set

[stiff fossil]

idk the 2pc was pretty damn great

and still is

[empty magnet]

Yea but it doesn’t really change anything rotationally

[molten ore]

Yeah but the 4p like changed the rotation in a decently big way

And had minmax to it

[empty magnet]

I liked the pandemic thing

[stiff fossil]

I mean neither did the 4pc except "refresh bleeds before vendetta ends"

[empty magnet]

Yea but it’s fun

[stiff fossil]

I can see that I guess

idk

[molten ore]

They could’ve just added to the tooltip

[empty magnet]

And then you stay giga juiced for like 10+ seconds after vendetta

Which would roll into your next shiv

[molten ore]

“This effect snapshots your bleeds when Vendetta expires”

[thin torrent]

yea I really liked that part too

[wooden wharf]

[thin torrent]

felt pretty good

[stiff fossil]

right?

[empty magnet]

Like rotationally it just felt great pandemicing a fat ass rupture into your follow up shiv

[rose grail]

just as strong as our burst

[empty magnet]

Big juice

[stiff fossil]

why must you hurt me like this

[rose grail]

cause lost ark is still down

[empty magnet]

So we hitting the formums for a compensation buff or is sin just dedge

[stiff fossil]

I didn't do anything to korean diablo, stop bullying me

[molten ore]

[rose grail]

they already said they would decide if it was worth keeping or not. guess this would be the answer

[molten ore]

Sin dead boys abandon ship we’re all rerolling warrior now

No good dot spec in the game anymore time to quit wow

[stiff fossil]

I mean all you necro fans got your wish though

[empty magnet]

Yea but sins already performing pretty w/e

[stiff fossil]

works with sbs now

thanks a lot

[rose grail]

arms warrior

[stiff fossil]

put that in your fleshcraft and drink it

[empty magnet]

It’s saving grace was it was a giga kyrian Druid simp target

But with that gone and this change sin just keep getting worse

[fallen cedar]

nah. Im rolling necro on 4p and running exsang ....here I come 9.2

[molten ore]

Arms looking dead in 9.2

I’m a Fury main now

[stiff fossil]

yikes

[rose grail]

sky already falling with no numbers run

[stiff fossil]

run zoldyk's too fuck it

[fallen cedar]

gonna ride the ship all the way down XD

[empty magnet]

The no kyrian simp honestly probably worse for sin than this change

That shit was gonna stonks to the moon with double leggo lol

[stiff fossil]

bruh if you were relying on an external for you to perform well

the spec was a lost cause with or without this change

[empty magnet]

Lol

I’m just talking overall spec power for prog/farm

Sin keep getting ls

[thin torrent]

what works with sbs now?

[molten ore]

Exsang

[proper veldt]

the 4 pc

important difference

[molten ore]

I’m going to run both anyway at this point

[empty magnet]

so you

saying that cleave bonespike 1 leggo 4 pc sin stonks 📈

pog

[thin torrent]

oh, the 4pc before didnt 2x sbs during vendetta?

nightstalker it is

[stiff fossil]

[deep sleet]

wait why are we doomsaying sin even harder than i do what happened

[empty magnet]

not doomsaying

[stiff fossil]

4pc overhang was removed

[empty magnet]

just think the nerf is dumb

[pale roost]

Nightstalker snapshot with haste/vend

and never press sbs again

poggers

[thin torrent]

[deep sleet]

oh we're see ya in 10.0

[stiff fossil]

deathspike STONKS

[empty magnet]

please tell me this is cap

[deep sleet]

[pale roost]

One singular sbs through the roof

[rose grail]

didn’t everyone in here hate being forced into NF like a month ago?

[pale roost]

[thin torrent]

i respect it

[empty magnet]

could probably do that on

[thin torrent]

now is the time

[empty magnet]

a cleave boss tbh

[stiff fossil]

people are going to bitch regardless

[empty magnet]

juice the fuck out of 1 spike and dump the rest into the other

[pale roost]

No

[stiff fossil]

as if the 200 dps dif between venthyr and fae mattered at all

[pale roost]

Because you have to use deathspike

:---------D

jk you don't have to

[thin torrent]

🧠

[empty magnet]

yea i'm talking 1 leggo world

[deep sleet]

wait is night fae dead now

[stiff fossil]

no

[deep sleet]

where am i

[empty magnet]

my care for necro sin dies as soon as 2 leggos hit lol

[pale roost]

wutr

have you not heard of the

[deep sleet]

i have dementia now or something whats happening

[pale roost]

nightstalker

haste