subtlety

[small sleet]

listen......

i believed in the healer a bit too hard

and used cloak to keep uptime on the previous orb cuz i was in blades

[fallow ingot]

Is that mandatory to have 1k1 haste for DS ?

[dusky yacht]

It's not even mandatory to have any stats at all

[small sleet]

mandatory? no, but its much better for your dps

[fallow ingot]

can use flask / get ring from Trium / idk about eigneener craft

[small sleet]

engi boots are 121 haste

easy to craft to only wear while playing ds

[graceful rock]

Do you need engi for them and do they take an embellishment slot?

[fallow ingot]

Without embelish tho ?

[stone niche]

theyre just regular crafted items with single stat instead of 2, you can put an engineering embelishment on it if you want but theyre even worse than regular ones

theres helmet, boots, and wrists

[alpine wraith]

yea you can craft wrist and engi boots

[small sleet]

^

[alpine wraith]

only helmet needs engi

[stone niche]

oh i didnt know

theres 0 chance were playing deathstalker in m+ right?

[tribal vortex]

can you put on engi feet normal embellishment?

[stone niche]

no

[tribal vortex]

ok ok

[warm marlin]

do not play ds in m+!

[upbeat cradle]

we're already not accepted into key, why would you do that to yourself

[keen steppe]

you guys have some tipps for third boss seat ? feels so hard even with def cds

its like getting slapped all the time x)

[latent remnant]

press defensives to reduce incoming damage

o didnt read the last part

hard to say what damage you're taking so any guess is as good as mine here

[keen steppe]

i guess tentacle damage is the main thing

rest is avoidable with vanish and cloak

[earnest bolt]

tentacles just need to be ccd and killed pretty quick

tbf

[keen steppe]

and aoe is feint and pray on heal

[dusky yacht]

Do you mean Shadowstrike?

Or Eviserate?

[latent remnant]

honestly true killing things so they can't do damage to you is also good way to reduce incoming damage

[keen steppe]

we dont have a damage reduce in dance in the past ?

[latent remnant]

while in dance feint is free to press because you're not running into energy issues

[dusky yacht]

Just use feint and don't forget to also use vanish which also gives you additional damage reduction, use vial on cooldown outside of dance, and make whimpering noises to your healer

[latent remnant]

are you running cheat death or the other one

[keen steppe]

you cant run cheat on high keys

[latent remnant]

yea just making sure

[dusky yacht]

What level key you talking about

[keen steppe]

atm 19

seat is last one and third boss is always a mess

maybe therte is something i look over

thats why i ask

[dusky yacht]

That's odd, I'm running cheat and parsed 99 on seat 17, but yeah apparently big diff between 17, 18 & 19 tho so fair I guess

[white nova]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[small sleet]

if you're talking about healing parsing a 99, cheat death will make you heal parse higher because it counts as healing, and you're also reducing less damage so there's more for you to heal

[dusky yacht]

no no dps

[small sleet]

why would defensives affect your dps parse

[latent remnant]

what impact is your defensive supposed to have on dps parse

[dusky yacht]

If you die or are going super low hp you are not going to be optimally doing dps are you?

[woeful barn]

What impact does dps parse have in dungeon anyway

Outside of ego

[latent remnant]

if your feints and evasion are doing 20% extra damage reduction

you're not getting as close to dying as you would otherwise

the cheat death cooldown is once every 6 minutes or something that's nothing compared to all the damage you could've not taken

[dusky yacht]

I know, but I am not using that talent and I'm fine, which was my point and why I added that it was a 17 and that there is apparently a big diff between 17, 18 & 19

[woeful barn]

Cheat is a raid talent tbh

[dusky yacht]

Holy shit I guess I'll be a god with that talent then

[upbeat cradle]

Cheat is BIS for Chimaerus !

[dusky yacht]

The Chim parse god has arrived

[upbeat cradle]

actually i parsed like ass

lol

[dusky yacht]

F

[upbeat cradle]

died to a fear that wasn't kicked

but hey the theory works

[latent remnant]

for the people here that play ds do you just have enough alternate gear that'd be better for trickster when you go into m+ (or do you just not play m+)

[upbeat cradle]

you got CDs for both add spawns and if you're quick fingered you can even barely lose 1-2s of blades with shadowstep

[small sleet]

your mitigation % should be somewhere around high 20s to low 30s to give you an idea

[upbeat cradle]

my DS gear is just my trickster gear with engi boots/bracers and flasks

[upbeat cradle]

"guys the rogue is in the other side again i think, how is he still alive"

me: "oops teehee"

[latent remnant]

icic I should really look into it, but probably after I get the last pieces to finish my trickster set hopefully this coming reset

[dusky yacht]

Break on through starts playing

[somber sun]

progging vanguards next reset, shall I just get off the game for next 2 weeks ?

we are running 2 rogues btw

[small sleet]

damage check isnt real on that fight, rogue is fine

[dusky yacht]

Keep atrophic up and pretend it doe-

[dusky yacht]

Keep your ass warm

[somber sun]

ohh just do mechanics and dont die ?

guess dmg is kinda fine ye

[latent remnant]

vanguard is just tank and healer fight

[drifting ether]

Elusive is nice if you time in with dance you get plate level dr in keys

[small sleet]

yeah, even with multiple dps dead the damage check is not hard to meet

[somber sun]

appreciate it

ty for tips

[dusky yacht]

We're progging cosmos wednesday or thursday

I am not prepared

Gonna watch the vids at work

Nobody will know

[latent remnant]

My first vanguard kill was on sub because I hadn't yet looked at how to play assa back then

[drifting ether]

You’ll have fun, obelisk if your only mechanic once you get that it’s easy

[dusky yacht]

Thanks Ren, I'll remember you when I fail the arrows

I'm off to bed night folks

[small sleet]

night night

[tall girder]

Mr snipe the ranged sometimes

[hazy lichen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pine mirage]

is there a % of damage that sub gains from shammy buff?

[hazy breach]

6-7%

[pulsar hemlock]

Too much

[ripe flame]

6...7?

[pulsar hemlock]

[keen steppe]

Pog

I know why i run only with shaman heals since df D:

[vernal drum]

Hey

should i take the ring ?

on my vault in MM

because when i sim, i feel like i win 0% dps

[earnest bolt]

sim it at 289

if it’s not an upgrade

just take a bonus roll or socket brudda

it’s a pretty good ring tho if you can get the haste somewhere else

[vernal drum]

thank you

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[worthy escarp]

I sim 1k higher going down to 650 haste and getting more crit, still not worth doing tho right ?

[clever garden]

!logs

[vernal drum]

U have a lot of haste

And not enough masteries

[drifting ether]

Sometimes I look for you and shoot you

[earnest bolt]

the sim is a robot and you are not

so it prefers less haste

[quaint lodge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy lichen]

how is someone doing 250k on crown

[short radish]

padding p1 adds

[tribal blade]

p1 dmg is almost completely out of your control

[hazy lichen]

rip

[short radish]

almost

oh no.... we missed an arrow and have to fight the 3rd add for longer

[tribal blade]

heehee

[stable plume]

Are there any rotational differences when switching to deathstalker from trickster?

[short radish]

oh nooooooooooo

[tribal blade]

the big one is puddle stacks

[flint parrot]

did 234k myself on sub
str8 pading
as this whole raid tier, i hate it

[warm marlin]

doesn’t it not count any damage done to it at 0 hp

[half apex]

Switched to sub from assa for the first time ever. Dps is almost double even by using my assas gear xD Loving this spec..

Only played assa/combat rogue my whole wow career of almost 20 years lol

[hazy lichen]

how do u even do that much wtf

[sage ivy]

Blast in p1

[short radish]

won't be at 0 hp if you're the only one attacking it for 100 seconds

[warm marlin]

i did the prog hold for 10s on our first time reclearing it this week

it died before my second set of cds came up

[short radish]

need to get buyers

[half apex]

Any tips for a new sub player? Kinda lost with Apex system 😄

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[short radish]

tl;dr with apex
read apex level 1, then read apex level 3

[hazy lichen]

damn so u can really only do insane damage if ur group just stinks

[swift tinsel]

you don't play around apex ever outside of those stipulations

[hazy lichen]

kinda cringe

[short radish]

apex when forced will turn your spender into a generator

so makes your spender do even more dam

its kinda wack but when you understand the interaction it makes sense

[tribal blade]

literally just puddle debuffs on the mobs

and other people not doing dmg

both of which are basically out of your control

you miss 1 puddle stack for whatever reason

that's -30% dmg you're doing

[flint parrot]

depends on your raid overall dps, u really wanna pop your 2nd sectech on 3rd big add at p1, if u dumass like me then go ahead and pop a potion on your 2nd send of cds like who cares

[shrewd lantern]

well your group shouldnt stink in mythic

I mean if you do the fight correctly you get a massive damage amp

which is good for sub

[flint parrot]

@hazy lichen check xewei povs
bro blastin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-IpIxoSpPs&t=277s

[tribal blade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kDbrccgc6I

[fossil forge]

4:48 i hear the Birds chirping outside academy has not been conquered.

[last wedge]

maybe this has been answered before but fuu's simulation with sub single target with max gear for trickster is at ~130k. My own gear, using same talents max out at ~120k. I'm trying to figure out where that missing 10k dps is. I realize that my gear isn't exact but it can't possibly be 10k off can it?

[last wedge]

for reference, I've got everything fully upgraded with both BiS trinkets in guildon and gaze.

[last wedge]

holy..that jumped 6k..lol. Ok, I can live with 4k off 😄 Thanks!

[prime glen]

if i had 4 crafted pieces )(

2 weapons and 2 leather pieces.. does arcnaoweave lining beat out the weapon embellishment?

[shrewd lantern]

You know you can sim that right.

Hunt generally speaking is better but there is no reason to have 2 crafted weapons.

Especially since bonus rolls enable getting a myth weapon easily.

[prime glen]

true, i should hunt for the mythic one off skyreach. we get 2 rolls each week?

(if you've used em all so far)

wasted 6 so far hunting raid trinkets zzz

[shrewd lantern]

No idea i stopped counting

probably 8

myth gaze isnt worth over getting a myth wep imo

[prime glen]

yeah was debating it too. i had double crafted weapons so the voidforged versions are 295. i guess i can go for the 3 ilvls higher on the main over the trinket ilvl

2 rolls instead of 1 off mythics that drop some good weaps is also just killin me zzz

[shrewd lantern]

I mean thats a stupid choice to roll on trinkets then

guidon definitely isnt that good to justify

or just get the mythic vora weap

[prime glen]

yeah, it seemed like it but then i noticed some of the logs and things were very diff over the sims

was interesting to see the total ilvl go down with the +3 for the myth weaps over the +4 diff on a crafted 285. ill play around with the sim tho and see. thanks for the heads up

mainhand above all tho is what i think fuu mentioned too

[shrewd lantern]

total ilvl go down

...what

[peak ice]

I’m so confused

[shrewd lantern]

I mean mainhand ilvl has been king since forever

[prime glen]

if you have a 295 weap

and 285 crafted

theres 3 diff between the main going up to 298

[shrewd lantern]

a 295 wep is an upgraded crafted

[prime glen]

versus the 289 on slot piece right

[dreamy needle]

is it normal downtime for the reset tmr or is it gonna be a long one

[prime glen]

i think 4 hours

[shrewd lantern]

Nothing to do until raid anyway

lol

[prime glen]

if you had 2 leather pieces at 285 versus 289. you can get 2 myth weapons at 298 instead of 295. so +3 each ilvl on weap./ -4 on each crafted

if you mix and match the weaps, it can be 298/295 with a 285/289 on ur body

was interesting to see the only 3 ilvl diff instead of maybe 4 when the crafted were boosted

[hollow vigil]

w

[prime glen]

compared to the myth track

[shrewd lantern]

.....huh

[prime glen]

but then the embellishment diff comes in

[shrewd lantern]

you can only upgrade weapons and trinekets

What drugs is blud on

[prime glen]

yeah

so the BiS

[shrewd lantern]

also why are we pretending the voidcores to upgrade

are a limited resource

[peak ice]

Why can u not have both?

[shrewd lantern]

an embellish is worth more than 3 ilvl generally yeah

[prime glen]

follow me graf. the ilvl total can go up if you put the embellishments on weap

[shrewd lantern]

and you can have 2

[prime glen]

and then keep pieces 289

but yeah if its obver the 3ilvls

and esp on mainhand whichi s the biggest, was where i see it being more optimal for the way Fuu has it now. was curious how much a diff it made though

[shrewd lantern]

great

now if only there wasnt a way to check this scenario

oh wait-

[peak ice]

Hunt big

[prime glen]

but yeah thats how the ilvl can go down in total

[peak ice]

Arcano weave less

[prime glen]

blud

haha

[shrewd lantern]

Can people stop making up "theoreticals"

when raidbots exists

💀

anything to not run a sim

[prime glen]

thats the same thing though

[shrewd lantern]

also offhand is big stinky

[prime glen]

but yeah

oh yeah

even worse than the trinks

[shrewd lantern]

you can literally ask

raidbots

💀

feelycraft is for stupid people

and m+ players

well ig the latter is the former

[prime glen]

yeah, but the sims didnt really show what the logs were showing. prob to account the diff in embellishments for the stat proc on weaps

which is why i was wondering whats making more sense raid wise

[ornate slate]

is the 1100 haste with or without guidons? Idk how I can reach that with just flask and oils and gear

[prime glen]

and nah relying on that solely is lol. but at least you follow now

[prime glen]

i think fuu stated without?

let me check

[ornate slate]

I have haste on all but one slot. That is nutty

[prime glen]

how much do you have total

thats crazy

[shrewd lantern]

"what the logs were showing"

me when i forget rng exists

[prime glen]

not only rng but the creature types

for the embelish weapon proc

[shrewd lantern]

you get a few haste heavy items

like the alleria neck

or lura ring

[ornate slate]

with flask and oils I am 250 short\

Myth Crown would be another 100 but...ya

[prime glen]

but yeah, he gets it now

thats crazy outkold

[shrewd lantern]

I cna hit it but

cba since its only good for one boss

[prime glen]

the haste on that neck and ring seems like a huge pull for his build

[shrewd lantern]

pretty sure the lura ring is near 300 haste

with gems

[prime glen]

insane

wats ur crit at with your haste there outkold

@ornate slate im seeing 500ish crit i think with the gearsetup. seems low but i guess haste is holding alot of weight

[ornate slate]

ya its a lot im loking at ways now

lura ring myth cosmos neck seems only way

[peak ice]

Crit less valuable on ds

[upbeat garden]

for m+ anything changes?

[pulsar hemlock]

I can hit it with flask and a neck recraft

[tall girder]

I’m too good u always killed blind

[brazen steppe]

is there an addon that helps with darkest night? like something that lights up the final combo point similar to how wa did it last expac?

[hearty belfry]

Can someone tldr why death stalker likes to enter shadow at low cps and why it needs so much more haste

[hollow raptor]

u enter dance at low cp to press shurken storm

and it buffs your dmg

[summer peak]

does that mean with DS that we do not stop finishers when CDS are coming up?

because building CP / Shadowtec stacks will have you going into cds with cps

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[distant sage]

Morning

[keen steppe]

Good morning legend

[dusky yacht]

Good morning lovely fuu

[vale pine]

are we ready to play deathstalker this week?

(i am not, maybe vault helps tho)

[dusky yacht]

Hell no

I’m tricking myself into the belief that trickster is best in all situations

[shrewd lantern]

i mean it is better on details

for everything but vora

[peak ice]

No thanks boss

[worldly root]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[nova cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/green-mile-im-tired-boss-michael-clarke-duncan-gif-2375696290766999196

I just fucking sorted 700 haste

[vale pine]

I mean, its optional

so we don't need to switch

[nova cairn]

What fights are we playing deathstalker most likely

[vale pine]

its just more damage if we have the stats

well every dominant single target fight

[nova cairn]

Right in the lura prog

[vale pine]

2nd boss, 3rd boss, crown, laura

1st boss if the adds die before you can blink

(tho first boss is w/e)

[nova cairn]

Is it possible to get 1100 haste

Without lura ring

[vale pine]

yes

you can switch flask

gems

craft engineering gear

(because it has only one stat, so you can get a lot of haste doing so)

[nova cairn]

Fair play

6% is a good chunk of dmg tho I must say

[vale pine]

it is

[nova cairn]

Lura adds get demolished

[tepid quartz]

For the rough stats for DS its around 1100 haste >mastery>crit right? Or do we crit over mastery?

[vale pine]

mastery over crit

but a bit of crit is perfect

gameplay wise, main change is the macro changes to storm + dance

you start dance with low cp

and you want to optimize around DN and supercharger

[nova cairn]

So it’s less brain dead than trickster

[vale pine]

yes

[nova cairn]

Why does DS prefer more haste anyway?

[vale pine]

you also need to use marked for death if your mark bugs out or you target switch

[vale pine]

trickster has a talent node which reduces secret techniques cooldown, deathstalker does not

[nova cairn]

Ahh got you

[nova cairn]

Does this happen during lura phasing?

[tepid quartz]

Okey, i have abit above 1100 haste so going to try it out tonight and feel things out for reset

[vale pine]

can happen during:

• Boss phase changes/teleports
• Mark on Adds
  But its now easy to fix, you just press mfd and its on your target again

[nova cairn]

There is an actual button for that now?

Also any chance there’s a m33kauras so say it’s missing or Naa

I presume cus it’s in combat Naa

[upbeat cradle]

So if you can you try to do in dance with one stack of mark to supercharge both sectech and DN evi

Anyone knows how big of a loss it is if you delay that by a few sec to make sure DN is always supercharged or is it more important to supercharge sectech and put it on cd asap

[lilac stag]

@keen dome 3 mythic bosses pugged on the warrior

[wheat edge]

Is there some tech in the opener where if you dont get the double mark consume on your strike -> evis you would vanish strike evis again to get it to 1 mark stack and then send cds as choo choo said

[vale pine]

yes, its a new spell

[upbeat cradle]

Someone talked about cancelling apex for something but i didn't quite understood the reasonings behind

[vale pine]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/spell=1293340/mark-for-death

[mighty ravine]

I wonder.. is it ok to play DS on beloren ? We're close to kill crown.. so..
Thanks :3

[keen dome]

Hellll yeah

pug team, pug team

[vale pine]

trickster probably better

crown, you could

but need to be careful around mark, to use mark for death when it bugs out

[spiral pewter]

!addons

!addon

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Essential:

• ArcUI / [AvijeCDM](<https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/ayijecdm) - Enhanced Cooldown Manager.
• WangBar / SensaiBar - Resource bar (when using blizzard CDM)
• MSUF / UUF - Unit frame mods.
• Platynator - Nameplate Addon.
  Quality of Life:
• Buff Reminders - Food/Flask/Poison Reminder.
• WilduTools - QOL enhancements.
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• The first dance tracker

[mighty ravine]

ok thx ! 🙂 probably not worth to recraft everything to finish crown (we're on p3, 19%, need to fix platform swap :D), then recraft again for beloren :3 thx for the anser ! :3

[night sparrow]

Yes play Trickster on Beloren. The boss is designed for RWF but with current gear your raid has to stop dps, so it's way better to have enhanced cleave to rip pheonix and eggs as soon as possible

[fiery fog]

i love the "when it works" part in that video

[sullen hare]

Mark add ,(on adds this time)

[night sparrow]

It's really important to optimize every HP you heal by yourself, or you can't achieve such greatness in life 🤡

[azure cradle]

good morning guys, sub is fpr m+ atm the best specc, correct ?

[upbeat cradle]

Depends on key level

Higher keys wants more prio so people prefer outlaw or assa

Sub can work tho

[tight jacinth]

for 16s should i go sub or assa?

[azure cradle]

so whats good at +16

assa or outlaw

which one of these speccs is the easiest ti play, im new to rogue, since BC 😄

[upbeat cradle]

16 you can play whatever

19+ you start to feel the difference tho

Still playable but having prio helps on some packs

[vale pine]

you can assume atrophic to work on most things tho

[fiery fog]

yeah, personally i dont like the "its applied for only 10 seconds" part of it

should honestly be like chaos brand or touch

[light hull]

Hi rogues! One question, do you know if tomorrow patch can be simmed in raidbots Nightly model?

[distant sage]

They all good even in 20s play whats most fun

But outlaw is the best performing one

[placid pivot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ionic python]

I did magister 5 times yesterday, the warlock pulled mobs every run, we saw this, they played the key without me, nothing happened, pretty sure its an interaction between sub rogue and a random pet from warlock, dont ask me why but it just happens.

Also before trying with this warlock, we had another warlock before, not even demo, he was playing destro warlock, he also ninja pulled.

Tldr: u cant play with warlocks without making the warlock do random pulls

[summer peak]

Guys, sorry for asking again but didnt get an answer, are we HOLD a DN proc for any leagth of time if SD is coming up off CD? in this period are we just gona build and not use our SD/SS macro

[dusky yacht]

Could this have something to do with tricks?

I had it happen with a guildie lock

[ionic python]

Tricks or shadow dance if i have to guess

[small sleet]

Diabolist hero talents are what are pulling the mobs, so it doesn’t matter if they’re destro or demo if they’re playing diabolist

I tried running a key where I didn’t ever use tricks and it still happened, so I don’t think it’s tricks related

[ionic python]

🍝

[small sleet]

My best guess seeing as it’s happening this tier and not previous ones is that it’s based on our apex talent shadows

[old ravine]

Had this happen a ton as well. Heard it might have to do with blades usage

[small sleet]

Nah happens outside of blades/ shadow dance

[hollow spear]

I will have to cook up my own conspiracy theory about this

[old ravine]

Lol

Quite cringe regardless

[small sleet]

I really think it’s to do with our apex talents since it’s sub specific and it started this tier only

[hollow spear]

If you don't sit on high amounts of SHT and cannot realistically move your way back to DN without majorly delaying the dance, you can hold for a while

I tend to literally afk then rather than spending

[summer peak]

thanks @hollow spear would you be thinking something like 6 or 7 seconds or is that too long

[hollow spear]

I have not theorycrafted this at all, but I would say it's more about the sht stacks than it is about the time

But I can see that holding for 6-7 seconds could be the play, especially if you're "dry" otherwise (i.e. no lust or other effects that increase your sht generation)

[keen steppe]

You can play everything i timed +20 already as sub Rogue

[tribal blade]

this has kinda happened in so many seasons it's become a massive meme

it's funny that blizz essentially has to fix this ALL the time haha

and then it just ends up breaking again

[keen dome]

smooth larry strikes again

[vale pine]

imps pulling is a classic

[tribal blade]

i brought it up to my guild's lock and he said it's absolutely not rogues

he said it happens in keys without a rogue

[peak ice]

I thought it was just the summons pathing fuckn up

[upbeat cradle]

DKs do it too tbh

Sometimes the fight ends and you can see a magus of the dead randomly bolting a new pack

[lilac stag]

Locks are just idiots.

[steady lark]

It's the diabolist pets and demo apex

[lilac stag]

It’s pets in general that are 🍝

[steady lark]

In keys like mt and npx the moment they spawn they target something and that can sometimes be shit like a neutral mana battery and your blaze pet aoes on it and it ticks something else

[lilac stag]

Watched one pull random shit in MT on my war. No rogue in group.

[upbeat cradle]

Locks are dumbasses who couldn't study to cast spells so instead they enter pacts to cast spells without the smarts.

It's lore.

[steady lark]

Hey man dark magic was forbidden to stormwind mages because it was too hard to keep in control

[hazy lichen]

why are so many of the top rogues in exposed guild

[steady lark]

It's in theme

[hazy lichen]

like 3 out of top 5

dps xd bpd

[wispy crystal]

Are there any mythic boss fights people will be switching to Death stalker for after the buff?

[upbeat cradle]

Same ones as before buff if you wanted to

Averzian/vorasius/crown/lura

Mostly vorasius and crown

Averzian if your raid clears add quickly

[tepid trellis]

from what i can tell its the same guy

yeh Dps Xd and Bpd is all the same guy

just on different rogues

[dusky yacht]

[peak ice]

We’re obviously not trying hard enough

[dusky yacht]

Are we even playing the game if we’re not all top 5

[tepid trellis]

from a quick glance they do a few full mythic clears a week

which usually means some runs have quite a bit less dmg

which makes it a decent bit easier to parse

not taking away from him tho he is obviously a blaster

[peak ice]

Ur right

He’s garbo

Boosted etc etc

[dusky yacht]

Padder alert smh

[tepid trellis]

we do 2x mythic runs in my guild and our 2nd run is usually a lil bit more sus

[peak ice]

Stealth confirmed padding

[dusky yacht]

Stealthi manipulating the parses confirmed

Illuminaughty is real

[tribal blade]

can confirm if you're in a guild with a lot of people not doing dmg

you can parse some fights easier

aka dragons

[peak ice]

Is that why my parses are good

I’m being gaslit by my guild

[tribal blade]

not the whole reason

but it makes a diff

[tepid trellis]

i private log so not like you would see it

[peak ice]

They’re throwing on purpose

[tepid trellis]

if i did

[tribal blade]

well on our first night of lura prog

across 44 wipes

1 of our BM hunters did less dmg than our bear

[peak ice]

I cannot get my logging to work

Idk what I did

[tribal blade]

he is also not doing a crystal

which is nuts to me

[peak ice]

I swear hunters are attracted to glaives

[tepid trellis]

lura parsing just comes down to p1 pad and p3 phasing

[tribal blade]

nah he's just doing no dmg haha

[tepid trellis]

i meant for us

[tribal blade]

it's kin of his thing

ahh kk

[tepid trellis]

not your bum ass hunter

[tribal blade]

LOL

fair

[tepid trellis]

hunters arent people

[tribal blade]

TRUEEE

[dusky yacht]

Fake ass rogues

[tepid trellis]

almost hate them more than boomies

[dusky yacht]

Fake ass mages

[peak ice]

I legit think one of our players switched to 1 button assist and got a boost in damage

[tribal blade]

boomies are the actual worst

[peak ice]

Yeah it’s a fuckn boomie

[tribal blade]

the amount of times i've watched a boomy go into incarn in keys

and then just fall over dead

because they refused to stop doing dmg

not go into bear

and just flop

[peak ice]

I’ve not seen a boomie like

Since doing 18s

Blessed

[dusky yacht]

The amount of times I’ve seen a boomie pull at 2 seconds left on timer

[tribal blade]

yeah boomies finally not an insanely OP spec

[peak ice]

Idm guardian being good

[tribal blade]

i'm good with guardian being good

motw buff and bres

[dusky yacht]

Tank druids are fine

[peak ice]

Yeah

[dusky yacht]

Ferals are chill too

[peak ice]

Kinda annoyed they nerfed it when they figured out that no apex build

[tribal blade]

it had to be nerfed

[peak ice]

But whateva

Yeah

Still

[tribal blade]

it was pretty dumb

[peak ice]

I was enjoying my tank time

The apex sucks

It’s soo bad

[hazy lichen]

wtf why 3 characters

[peak ice]

Split raid

[tribal blade]

splits maybe

probably

they're a world rank 45 guild

[dusky yacht]

So he can mog everyone thrice

[tribal blade]

so splits chars hard required

[wheat edge]

no tier set no apex talents just as god intended

[tribal blade]

even my mid guild we do 1 splits char now

[dusky yacht]

Deus vult

[tribal blade]

surely they just buff the bear apex

[peak ice]

I think it needs a rework

[tribal blade]

what does it even do

[peak ice]

It feels bad

You get like exhosnthat copy spells

[wheat edge]

doesnt it put power into cds which for tanks is whatever

[tribal blade]

oh is that what was causing bears to do crazy egg dmg on beloren

iirc

[peak ice]

Yea u maul and the it repeats like 2 times at 150%

[wheat edge]

yeah I think it had insane damage in cds -> the cds got nerfed but their normal spells got buffed? -> people figured out wait I can just be strong perma and not rely on cds this shit kinda owns

[north schooner]

why rework bear apex when they can rework MM instead?

[upbeat cradle]

I liked bear more with apex than without

[peak ice]

It’s that u had to put so many points into raze

To get it to work

[upbeat cradle]

It wasn't Maul you wanted to replicate tho it was Ravage

[peak ice]

That u missed a bunch of shit

Well raze right

[upbeat cradle]

Raze has same damage as maul it's just aoe

Ravage had double or triple maul damage tho

Ravage is druid of the claw hero talent

All of bear damage was frontloaded into it

[peak ice]

Ye, but the elunes build is the one that drops the apex right

[upbeat cradle]

Yeah

At start of the expac it was apexless dotc tho

[peak ice]

And it’s the only one I’ve been using in m+

[upbeat cradle]

They nerfed ravage and buffed apex so it became apex ravage

Then they nerfed apex

And we now have current iteration

Tbf the single target damage of apexless dotc at midnight start was dumb

[peak ice]

Yea the sundering roar build is my favourite one so far

Does 0 std

But pretty decent damage through the rest of the dungeon

[upbeat cradle]

Ok i got one week to get my second rogue mythic ready

[peak ice]

U dont have 3 top 5?

[tepid trellis]

just a high ranked guild that does splits

[upbeat cradle]

I have two bottom 100

[vale pine]

3 splits sounds exhausting

[tepid trellis]

doing the splits is kinda w/e its preparing them imo that sucks ass

[tribal blade]

midnight was particularly bad preparing alts this time

because of how much lvling sucked

[vale pine]

true

[hollow spear]

what was the command for the spreadsheet of our defensives again?

in like what does/what doesn't work on certain encounters

[tribal blade]

#wow-general message

not sure if it's a command

[small sleet]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[hollow spear]

could have sworn there was something for the current raids, too

but thanks guys!

[fallow ingot]

!AA

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  If all of the above are true, use cast a Shadowstrike / Shuriken Storm (even if on full cp).

[drifting ether]

First 20 done!

[tribal blade]

HUGE

[fossil forge]

guys what was the lore

behind rogue having to be on left side on lura

for atro to work

[marble sail]

left buffs got applied to right side

[fossil forge]

this is in p3 correct?

[marble sail]

yes

dont think thats the case anymore tho

[fossil forge]

👍

[fossil forge]

bigs ups on playing sub i gave up

[runic sequoia]

The raid aoe is sourced from left guy

[fast dome]

why? sub is pretty easy honestly and does fine unless maybe you're pushing 20 keys

[runic sequoia]

Any debuff duplication or w.e is fake news

[fast dome]

but really at that point rogue is kinda pants in general (According to the meta)

[dusky yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/my-man-my-man-hd-my-man4k-gif-23532578

[solar glen]

Do we switch up to DS in raid for now? Cuz of the changes?

[fallow ingot]

still feels weird to enter dance with ST as DS lmao

[swift tinsel]

@lilac stag I've turned to the dark side and started leveling mage, predicting a whiplash-worthy glowup

[hazy breach]

Does fine even at the higher keys

[fossil forge]

death penalty.

worse than rerolling to dk

[fast dome]

good to know, thats why I quantified it with maybe, cause I havent looked into it at all. I wont ever be doing 20+ keys

myself and my friends I run with are solidly 16-17s at best 😄

[hazy breach]

Same problem as always in keys though, for some reason blizzard decided that the raid buffs that benefit melees should be 2x as strong as the ranged buffs. So you practically need to have all/most of the buffs to do good damage

[swift tinsel]

I've played mage in previous tiers so w/e

[fossil forge]

ok then i said nothing

[hazy breach]

So youre kinda forced to always play with a shaman for example, because otherwise sub feels bad to play and does way less damage

[fast dome]

ironic since my other class I play is resto shaman

so I never get to run with one as rogue 🙁 its sub rogue, brm, holy paladin, aff lock, surv hunter for my group when I'm dps

[swift tinsel]

I wonder if my alt account ptr shaman is still parked at the org training dummies for testing things

[fast dome]

I switch off with the HPal and he either does ret or prot, the monk does brm or ww, or the Hpal runs his DH. The hunter and warlock have literally been playing the same spec each since Legion and never run anything else.

[swift tinsel]

I respect that

esp as surv and aff lol

[fossil forge]

undermine jail 🥀

[fast dome]

oh yeah its kind of impressive. even when theyve been total shit they just keep powering thru and playing em. We're only an AOTC and 3-4 mythic boss guild so its generally been doable.

[swift tinsel]

ah yeah that's our guild too

can def vibe on pretty much any spec

[steady lark]

Affliction isn't too bad

Just does less boss dam than demo unfortunately

And the damage profile is a little wack seed spam is worse than demo doing single target on a mob and aoe by existing

[swift tinsel]

historically its been a pain with agony refresh/vile taint but thankfully that's been addressed going into midnight

[steady lark]

It's not been adressed you just lost vile taint

Agony spreads to +1 now which is cool

[swift tinsel]

yes, which was problematic bc its cooldown was barely longer than the refresh duration/pandemic so you weren't tab/mousover targeting all of your agonies to then vile taint apply them 3 sec later

which felt total shit ass

[steady lark]

But like, destro has cataclysm why not just keep vile taint on affliction instead of agony being the most whatever of whatever buttons

[swift tinsel]

they have a weird philosophy behind what they want as far as parity/disparity between specs

can't give certain things to another spec bc then other spec doesn't feel unique or some shit like that

[steady lark]

I've only been playing affliction in like 15-16 keys ngl and seed spam goes hard

But it just doesnt do very much st

[swift tinsel]

I'm a big dark harvest enthusiast

[steady lark]

Yeah that button is cool as hell

[swift tinsel]

but yet boss dmg is pretty lacking in aoe talents

[steady lark]

Full heals you too actually broken

[somber sun]

allat for a coat and a mount

20h farm btw

idk what was the point of nerfing pylons method

[sterile raven]

so, we have managed to get a rogue to help test this..and there is for sure something on Sub who seems to cause our pets to stop targeting the pack and target something else.

10 pulls without the rogue nothing happens, 5 pulls with an outlaw and nothing, 5 pulls as assa nothing..the moment he swapped to sub? happens 3 times in a row

[steady lark]

Yeah man lady sacrolash smells the shadow technique inside of you

And goes ballistics

Rot agony whatever she says in her fight

[swift tinsel]

did you have the rogue switch hero trees or just try as trickster

[sterile raven]

just trickster

[swift tinsel]

saw whispers of it being tied to 1hr tricks so wasn't sure if that part was looked into

granted that could have been sussed out if the outlaw was trickster also

[sterile raven]

i have no idea what it is, at first i wondered https://i.imgur.com/vHcgRSD.png but even when swapped its still

some people said it happens around Shadow Blades window

[swift tinsel]

yeah it was def doing that before we ran that talent

hmm, if its tied to apex that's 2x dances in that window

and we get a ton more apex clones during that

[sterile raven]

would you mind linking me those spells?

[swift tinsel]

moment

Apex:

and this is the engine behind it essentially

Shadowcraft makes us stack Shadow Techniques very quickly during Shadow Dance

which interacts with our Apex talents to cause our finishers to spawn shadow clones that replicate the finisher cast

during Shadow Blades, we aim to cast 2x Shadow Dances which is basically a big clone fiesta, so it would stand to reason that people would notice it more around that window

[sterile raven]

yeah i have no idea what could be, even looking at the spelldata for those and shadow dance nothing glares in my eyes of "wow this could spaguettify"

[lilac stag]

well I love when some of your locks show up and say they just stand there and being around a rogue pulls… so sitting out of combat next to a sub rogue randomly pulls shit?

pet code is shit. but some of the claims that have come in here (not from you) are like reading an alien & ufo sub reddit

[sterile raven]

well a lot is speculation from what one experience, i haven't been playing the game so i only have tracking this sort of like a third-party

[reef walrus]

weren't there some people mentioning earlier that it definitely has happened in a key without a rogue as well?

[sterile raven]

i know that some pet aggro stuff isn't the fault of rogues (and truth is neither this is the FAULT of rogues)

[lilac stag]

I raid with 2-3 locks twice a week. I can count on one had the number of times they have prepulled, and that was during dimensus prog.

[sterile raven]

its the fault of some weird behavior

[reef walrus]

if so, what could subtlety have in common with one of the specs in the groups at those points?

[sterile raven]

thats because pets are fucked even without this being involved

[lilac stag]

none have been the lock this tier. Biggest culprit is puzzle box users in shroud.

again just one isolated data point. Which in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

[reef walrus]

are there any clips of that specific behaviour from both the pov of the rogue and the warlock?

[lilac stag]

is it a racial interaction. Is it a hero tree or specific talent interaction. Is it some pet setup on the lock end.

[swift tinsel]

m+ has been where I've been seeing it

idk about raid

[sterile raven]

i can go dig for some on lock pov might take a while

[lilac stag]

but when the lock army comes in here. YOU SUB ROGUES ARE CAUSING ME GRIEF. nah fam. Get out with that approach. Show data. We will be happy to help.

[sterile raven]

have there any warlock come say that beyond me?

[lilac stag]

I’d laugh my ass off if the apex clones showed up as aggro for the lock pets, but then ya’ll come in saying just standing there does it.

[graceful rock]

Tried out some deathstalker in reclear last night

[lilac stag]

I don’t think any maliciousness was intended, but it’s f’n hilarious

[graceful rock]

Kinda surprised it’s getting buffed tbh

It does a lot of boss damage on Lura

[hazy breach]

Yerp its just a passive token buff to get people to try it out

[lilac stag]

it’s good for one thing. ST. Guess what’s there’s not a lot of? ST

[reef walrus]

blizzard looks at what hero talents are underplayed and tried to do something to get people to swap

but they seemingly haven't realised after 2 years that nobody actually likes deathstalker for reasons that are not damage related

[vale pine]

its blizz way of saying "please try deathstalker"

[hazy breach]

Its definitely not in need of a buff. I'd also say it does slightly more damage than it sims for, which is quite telling if its already 4-5% ahead

[graceful rock]

I already have an enhance shaman, havoc dh, and windwalker fighting for add damage so I might as well eviscerate

[lilac stag]

dev desperate to not look like a failure.

[swift tinsel]

god forbid they actually look at why we don't like playing it

[sterile raven]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/D3yYnDstYN2Pb4iBN8RW-cbTdI7F_ry_KWeqo0-ut3o/https/i.imgur.com/yFztI1M.mp4 i had a vod but it seems to be dead now #146683128411455488 message

[graceful rock]

I actually don’t mind DS overall

There’s def some cringe to it

But in single target it’s w/e

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/when-i-lose-my-swich-stare-worried-gif-15090979

[graceful rock]

Right now my biggest gripe is that the DN buff doesn’t go away on my CDM right away

[reef walrus]

so this is the pit lord from diabolist specifically that's just randomly pulling that pack right?

[sterile raven]

to be fair, i don't come here to grief or say its fault of sub, its to figure out what could be, so i could try and reach someway to blizz and potentially get fixed because the solutions of "just dont play with a rogue", "don't play diabolist" or "don't play with a demo lock" are not things i enjoy giving

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel my "casual" gearing of the arms warrior

[light finch]

Maybe Blizzard can fork over +400 haste 😉

[lilac stag]

nope, you've been good. i'm also very sarcastic and I try to remember to tone it down

[swift tinsel]

I can try and look if I have a rogue pov vod when I get home from work but idr if was recording that night

[coral bear]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[coral bear]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=6a16bbf3&is=6a156a73&hm=d6ab2ee3082df82467cfe0bfd21815c34a94e5f6cb6b756b1815898d4d6695d6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[lilac stag]

@sterile raven we generally try to be helpful to one and all. just be careful in the outlaw channel. they're different

[sterile raven]

not quite, there is this skill called Eye of Guldan who the warlock cast, but this skill seems to follow a targeting pattern of pet logic (it stops working if you don't have main pet active for exemple) when this skill trigger it should do aoe damage around your target but somehow someway it sometimes block itself from doing in your target and targets something nearby who is a valid target (who is fault for blizzard because this skill also exists on destro locks where it can trigger from a non targeted skill)

so its the lock who pulls, but the question is "what makes the aoe around the target not valid"

[hazy breach]

Thats the wrong one, that one accounts for diminishing returns on stats, but it doesnt do that ingame

[foggy laurel]

I play with a lock a lot and their "big dawg" has pulled so much random stuff. But I'm never on my rogue when they're on their lock (we switch off as healers, so I'm on MW when they're on lock). I've seen it most in MT and Caverns.

[reef walrus]

wait so the stat DR doesn't apply to deepening shadows??

[coral bear]

Cause im looking for the Deathstalker one

if im understanding this proprely, deathstalking want 3 GCD ?

[lilac stag]

There wasn’t one

No one played DS

[coral bear]

Between 1076-1173

[hazy breach]

Wdym, thats the one.

[coral bear]

I mean prob 1120?

[sterile raven]

there are a lot of new warlocks and they not all understand the spec dangers.

the big dog you mean is the charhound right? big red?

[hazy breach]

You dont need the 0.4s margins as deathstalker, because no coup

So use the 0.2s margin column

[light finch]

DS ca. 1100 haste / trickster 700 haste

[hazy breach]

Correct

[coral bear]

So 1076 is perfect for me?

[sterile raven]

that thing have an 10 yards aoe damage, so if you have it active and you move around it will pull stuff..if you for exemple on Nexus point, you know the teleport?

[hazy breach]

Around there yes

[sterile raven]

if you take that teleport with the pet active

that aoe flares around while you teleport

and you pull the entire dungeon

[swift tinsel]

does this mean Rain of Fire will cause it as well?

[light finch]

if you are pretty flawless, a bit more shouldn't hurt

[coral bear]

@hazy breach If i was able to magically have an exact amount of haste. What should it be?

[swift tinsel]

sorry, kinda dipping in and out of convo

[coral bear]

the 1076 or a bit mroe?

cause i have gems to use

[sterile raven]

no, it don't happen on destro locks because destro lock have a proper aoe ground target to define where it should be targeted

[coral bear]

and im at 1072

[foggy laurel]

no, i mean diabloist pit lord. It's just the joke name we've been calling it because of a youtube video. They're not new to lock at all and one of the most aware, careful players I've ever known. We were just standing there after a pull died once and it just... started attacking

[ripe flame]

1100

[hazy breach]

Around that number, whatever you feel comfortable hitting all the globals on

The recommended 1100 is slightly higher for slightly more leeway

[swift tinsel]

ah, that makes sense ty for clarifcation

[coral bear]

Yeah but its for Lura and Belo only

hmm

maybe ill go 1080

[reef walrus]

if you were in a group with a rogue, would you be able to reproduce it? for example in a regular mythic or something?

[coral bear]

since they dont move

[sterile raven]

but this particular issue started happening after the fix on blizzard (becuase this effect didn't even work on destro before)

[light finch]

problem with 1076 is "if you don't get the last global into shadow dance, the haste surplus to 700 is wasted", so get some more and be save

[sterile raven]

i think its a very long and internconnected group of issues of spaguetti coding

[coral bear]

What about with guidon?

[sterile raven]

well, i myself wouldn't because i don't have a sub or a level 90 character

but i could intermediate for someone to test alongside i think

[reef walrus]

oh 😄

[coral bear]

Ill go 1090 IG

[reef walrus]

I'm intrigued by the whole thing, so I wouldn't mind trying to just methodically test specs/talents and seeing what causes it

[sterile raven]

s2 or s3 i might come back, will rly depend on stuff

[foggy laurel]

does anybody have the Nexus rings set, by chance? I stopped running that after I saw the proc go off and hit a random enemy we weren't in combat with. Pulled the whole room

[lilac stag]

I’d be curious as to why DK’s aren’t having similar issues. No clue how similar the 🍝 is for pet spawning with UH

[sterile raven]

the one who procs mastery?

[foggy laurel]

the one that procs damage

[sterile raven]

DKs have other issues related to pets too

[lilac stag]

Yes - just not in here saying it’s sub rogue standing next to me.

[sterile raven]

in the end part of the issue about pets is that pets are npcs as npcs they have an aggro radius (usually set to 0 but sometimes blizzard forgets)

[sterile raven]

this one in specific because they don't have eye explosion

[lilac stag]

Hopefully you can see the humor in all of this on the rogue side of this

[fallow ingot]

Raidbots is broken for DS ? simc deafult flask is crit one

[lilac stag]

Default is whatever the default profile was set to

[sterile raven]

i think its more annoying no? like imagine you get rejected in a m+ group because there is a demo lock in there

[lilac stag]

If that was the only reason rogue got rejected we’d be happy

[swift tinsel]

just need to pray said demo lock is not active in Discord lol

but it is really quite annoying that it exists

both on the part of the warlock pulling bc of spaghetti and the rogue potentially being the cause of it

[lilac stag]

There’s legit so few rogues playing none of us deep dive emotions of lfg rejections. Revisit if we ever have actual utility.

[sterile raven]

or that you and your friend who play lock, but either he can't play diabolist or you can't play sub ( i think/remember some guy here saying it happened a lot to him right?)

[swift tinsel]

through no fault of anyone

[swift tinsel]

it definitely has happened to me numerous times playing with one of our locks as demo

[lilac stag]

I’d actually be curious to see how the blizzard forums respond if this is posted there.

[sterile raven]

i have a task for you and your friend! do a dungeon with him as demo diab, and you as sub..but not as trickster!

i know trickster is the better hero talent right?

[swift tinsel]

I can give it a shot, can hop into an m0 with a few people maybe

[lilac stag]

Hahaha sub in a dungeon.

sorry.

Knee jerk reaction

[swift tinsel]

yeah its no problem to try as the other hero tree, or can also try one without talenting into apex/shadow clone talents

no apex might be worth looking into to try and eliminate that variable

[lilac stag]

run zero apex trickster

[sterile raven]

honestly, if i had a subscription* i would be offering myself to test with you because i might just have the "perfect idea" of how to replicate it

[lilac stag]

that would be next step imo

[swift tinsel]

I can't try out for ~7 hours since worktime

[sterile raven]

who is having eye explosion ready and the rogue presisng shadow blade/dance

[swift tinsel]

eye explosion is from this right

[sterile raven]

sorry sorry

i forgot sub is also spec

[sterile raven]

yes

[swift tinsel]

which would track with it happening on pit lord spawn

[sterile raven]

yeah it happens whenever you summon one of the ritualist demons

[swift tinsel]

interesting

[lilac stag]

Does this need to be done in combat, or is this an out of combat thing as well. I haven’t looked at locks since legion.

[sterile raven]

exemple, it can happen with https://streamable.com/ypfj84 Mother of chaos too

[lilac stag]

I’m just trying to piece together just standing there cannon

[sterile raven]

yes because the spell who does that put you in combat(hand of guldan)

[lilac stag]

And that wouldn’t be the first cast of a pull?

[swift tinsel]

it could be

[sterile raven]

if it works the way i suspect it works it could be the first cast

[lilac stag]

first pull of dungeon lest say with no resources ready

[sterile raven]

i think all it requires is..the target to not "become valid"

wait a second do you guys apply any weird debuff on targets?

[swift tinsel]

poisons

[reef walrus]

extremely janky spaghetti code with shadowy duel?

I know it's not supposed to be active in pve

but that's the only rogue ability I could think of that makes a target not valid

[lilac stag]

well if it’s trying to target clones. Those would not be valid

[left ledge]

man

i think deathstalker might be the play in m+ now

[reef walrus]

but it should target enemy targets no?

[swift tinsel]

would be very funny if the pet logic is trying to target apex clones

[lilac stag]

Test it with a warlock for us.

[reef walrus]

or well, I guess "should" is a big one there

[left ledge]

yeah i will test it

[lilac stag]

should

[left ledge]

shuriken tornado DS

damage will go crazy

[hazy breach]

Not sure it will

But its probably fine

[lilac stag]

@sterile raven idk what you’d even look for, but the only thing very specific to sub would be the apex clones. they go off quite often. the other would be Secret Technique clones. I’d look down that route more than shadow blades.

[swift tinsel]

if there's a log can look for Ancient Arts procced Clone attack shortly before an Oculi explosion that pulls a random pack

[lilac stag]

and without the rogue pov it’s impossible to see

[swift tinsel]

if that's what's causing the targeting issue

[sterile raven]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VNLR6jvc9B4fWQhP?fight=last&type=casts&start=1249521&end=1263297&view=timeline i forgot i actually had a log of it

i don't have the vod of it anymore but

some screenshots

[warm marlin]

There was some suspicion regarding version control for sectec clones

Could be another result

[swift tinsel]

get parried

I wouldn't be surprised

[lilac stag]

You could try it without apex and then without Sectech

[sterile raven]

https://i.imgur.com/s8lMfU2.png this thing here is where it happens

[swift tinsel]

ye first move would be no apex no sectech no nado/wm/any clone proccing talents

[lilac stag]

Timestamp?

nm. It came up on pc. Didn’t on phone.

[bronze hatch]

me, trickster: "man why does deathstalker need so many buffs just to stay single target competitive?"
me reading logs:
"oh"

[sterile raven]

https://i.imgur.com/KQLxCBy.png it will be rly stupid if the fault is this threat effect (it shouldn't be because it only targets you)

[swift tinsel]

that would be insane lmao

[wispy crystal]

any idea if mind numbing poison work on the birds cast on Mythic Baloren?

[swift tinsel]

our omega threat dump

[lilac stag]

unrelated but this makes my brain bleed

[reef walrus]

but can the eye target friendly targets to explode around?

[sterile raven]

no, it targets your target

there isn o way it would be that

[reef walrus]

and did the eye exist in war within?

[swift tinsel]

pretty sure it was the s3 tier set wasn't it

[reef walrus]

wasn't it the tier set for diabolist or something in S3?

[swift tinsel]

most of the new hero columns came from those

[reef walrus]

because the threat negation on dance has been a thing since forever, so we'd have seen it in tww s3 as well if it was that

[lilac stag]

@sterile raven have you looked at one without evoker?

that seems to line up with the clip

on the rogue

[swift tinsel]

The first clip was without aug

in Pit

[lilac stag]

didn't see that one. is there a log there?

[swift tinsel]

also looking at the timestamped log from Skyreach, there's an Occuli explosion starting at 18:75 but AA proc/consume 1.5sec later so idk

[quaint breach]

are there any tips/tricks in AA for the big pull prior to last boss when skipping? So croweded and aoe smashes are annoyingly staggered

[subtle spruce]

We switching to ds or what jkjkjk

[left ledge]

wait what is being discussed

is it the propaganda of locks pulling random shit

and saying its because a rogue is in group

[swift tinsel]

subtlety and demo diabolist pulling

that's what we're looking into right now

[left ledge]

pretty sure thats just some random propaganda started

demo just pulls shit

rogue or no rogue

[bronze hatch]

can confirm demo bug, warlock friends keep complaining about it

[left ledge]

yeah idk why some people seem to think it has something to do with rogue

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

folks have been actively testing

and there's correlation that's being looked into

[left ledge]

is this specific to eye explosion

[swift tinsel]

that's the interaction we're looking at

[lilac stag]

It’s the easy thing to do.
I’ll humor it.

[left ledge]

i mean what they're pulling with

[swift tinsel]

yeah

its the Occuli explosion

[left ledge]

i see

[swift tinsel]

something with it targeting things beyond the caster's target

[left ledge]

have they tested it without a rogue

[lilac stag]

and “only sub”

[warm marlin]

there has been a suggested correlation with sub rogue

[left ledge]

only on sub?

[swift tinsel]

no, all 3 specs

[warm marlin]

also, akaari clones can now fail to do their attack on their primary target

[swift tinsel]

looked into, but only happening on sub

[warm marlin]

as of recently

[swift tinsel]

yeah if I had to guess, it's related to clones

[warm marlin]

someone posted a log in here where they pressed sectec on salhadaar, their first clone hit like normal, and their second clone only hit a concentrated void?

also numerous lura logs where both clones miss

[swift tinsel]

ye there's been a couple logs with very weird clones

the lura one especially

unless boss is Rik Reverb zooming away

[lilac stag]

I’d venture it’s the apex clones since Sectech didn’t line up in the log

[sterile raven]

Bombardment is something i looked a lot back in TWW, its unlikely to be it. (but it does overpeform on demo locks)

[warm marlin]

it could be the boss is moving fast enough

[left ledge]

nah sectec distance thing was supposed to have been fixed

[sterile raven]

skyreach sadly is without a log

[warm marlin]

it was supposed to have been fixed

but it 100% happens this patch

[swift tinsel]

yeppers

[left ledge]

but

lura doesnt move fast

like at all

[warm marlin]

it usually happens on pull where she kinda zooms to the tank

i think if you strike sectec it could miss there

[swift tinsel]

ye and the log I looked at they hit sectech insta

so could be that

[left ledge]

hmm

maybe then

[sterile raven]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9Z4p8K7TxnPqdX2A?fight=15&type=casts&view=timeline&phase=1&start=24019361&end=24086692 on this one, it happens here but i don't think the guy had shadow dance here

#146683128411455488 message (i linked the cotbh because there the video is embebed in there in memory)

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[swift tinsel]

they should have, if using secret technique

[sterile raven]

oh secret technique gives it too?

[swift tinsel]

secret technique always spawns clones

[sterile raven]

and it does get activated before the hand of guldan finishes

[swift tinsel]

but if the Hand cast ended right as the clones spawned that could do it if its a weird targeting issue

ye

the clones spawn what, 0.6 and 1.2sec after sectech

idr what the current times are

[left ledge]

what causes explosion

[swift tinsel]

consuming Diabolic Ritual

spawning one of the 3 big demons

[left ledge]

hmm

[lilac stag]

From that log it looks like secret pets

[swift tinsel]

and that tracks with some of the vods/gifs

but I'm confused why it would be trying to target clones

[left ledge]

ok so lets say it is targetting clones

why would it jump to some random pack

[swift tinsel]

🍝

[lilac stag]

Clones in air. Can’t target find something close.

[left ledge]

but its not targetting the closest thing

[lilac stag]

🍝

[left ledge]

[swift tinsel]

it is odd that its not trying to target the enemies around their target

[lilac stag]

who knows where the clones are spawning from.

[swift tinsel]

beside us

[left ledge]

well you can see them

[warm marlin]

the boss was on the move a bit when he casted sectec in that log

[swift tinsel]

sectech clones on enemy

[sterile raven]

i think its not even about targeting clones, i think something is causing the targets you are doing damage to "become non priority" or "not within FOV" or something blocking the effect from targeting them

[lilac stag]

I would laugh if the clones made LOS issue for pets

[left ledge]

i mean i guess we need to actually see the timing in which the clones spawn vs when eye explosion goes off

[sterile raven]

https://imgur.com/a/qLtt2EO sorry for potato quality

are the clones trackable?

[left ledge]

kind of yeah

they spawn after a short delay after consuming ancient arts or using secret technique

[sterile raven]

i meant morel ike on wclogs

[left ledge]

sectec in specific spawns 2 clones, both on different delays

hmm

should be akaari's soul

[swift tinsel]

akaari will show up and iirc ancient arts will too

should show up like that

[sterile raven]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9Z4p8K7TxnPqdX2A?fight=15&type=auras&view=timeline&phase=1&start=24019361&end=24086692&ability=1269163

[dusky yacht]

I love how sub channel going full sherlock on this bug

[left ledge]

nah not good to look at the buff itself

[warm marlin]

first hit on the new wyrms is 4:24.683 from eye explosion

[left ledge]

hmm

yeah i mean

[warm marlin]

sectec is cast at 4:24.620

[lilac stag]

we are the bug ridden spec. Dethroned WW awhile ago. It’s what we do.

[left ledge]

wait what

he used aa on sectec?

[swift tinsel]

it can happen, not terribly uncommon if you're pooling

[left ledge]

apex that spawns clones... on an ability that spawns clones

hmmm

[warm marlin]

yes he did

[left ledge]

[lilac stag]

it can happen

[dusky yacht]

I sometimes do that

[left ledge]

im aware it can happen