subtlety

[edgy imp]

anyone have myth emberwing ? mine sims better than giudon

[lilac stag]

it should not

[worn sequoia]

Pins section broke? What’s the command to see the current best spec for m+

[vale pine]

discord has issues, nothing is broke outside of their api currently

all 3 work well in m+

play your prefered

[worn sequoia]

Copy. Ty fuu. Is there one that has an edge over the others or so minuscule it doesn’t matter

[timid rose]

depends what you're trying to do, sin doesn't do well when things die super fast from what i've been reading

[worn sequoia]

Thought this was the sub channel? I meant the diff between cloud or not

[empty bobcat]

how good is midnight ring for us?

[wispy sedge]

on AA is it a big difference on boss damage to bp or evis? on 1st boss

[worn sequoia]

Depends on if you need more haste for 700 breakpoint

[empty bobcat]

I mean, I can swap some other stuff that has haste for mastery crit no?

[timid rose]

ope sorry, been a long day. Cloud vs Not cloud was like 200ish diff for me on dslice, so i think it's pretty close

might be more how does your group pull and dungeon specific what would perform better

[tight fjord]

20aa 1st boss

[empty bobcat]

rather replace crit haste or mastery haste if you already have almost 1k mastery buffed

[tight fjord]

Grey parse key

[void ocean]

is there any addon that shows us item lvl of ppl in like tooltip or smth

[somber sun]

I use this

also shows on inspect

[void ocean]

is it too buggy?

[somber sun]

no

I run on potato pc

didnt have any issue once

• also shows if items are enchanted and what gems are on

[void ocean]

aye awesome tnx

that will help me to avoid joining pug raids where RL is ilvl 265 and parses 1 on mythic averzian

which we killed but it fell apart on Vora

[somber sun]

lmaooo

yeah I feel you

also when you see devourer/uhdk 270 ilevel getting invited to mythic pugs

while you have to reach 280 ish on rogue to even think about getting an invite

[vagrant lynx]

i just run my own grps B)

[fleet acorn]

@vale pine new main? xd

[vale pine]

never played warrior

[tidal solstice]

dh so hot right now

arms also got buffs

also locks are hot rn

better get meta, nah not that rogue

first season raiding mythic while its current. theres a learning curve for sure. you guys have helped me a ton so realyl, thanks for all the effort yall put in to the community

weird. i wanna be better but at the same time.... nice

[keen dome]

Can't improve off a 69, imo

[tidal solstice]

right? and i got both mythic raids and plus at 69.

now i need to figure out how to live log or whatever for m+

[edgy imp]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wMYzt4hLgVH4C2GCQrY5ch

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fFk4VY6ZRgKuTP73X9P7yC

rocking box n feather

[wary locust]

does gaze mke much of a difference?

over plume

[hazy breach]

Not that much over plume no

Compared to any other trinket yes

[hollow veldt]

So just catching up we back to No Scruples in both M+ and raid?

[small sleet]

ya

i just did over 100k st to all 4 bosses of an algethar run

actually so ethical, bring sub rogue to your aa run

[hollow veldt]

Yeah true and WR

[edgy imp]

should i run raid spec in dungeons ?

[small sleet]

no

only difference between raid spec and m+ spec is potent powder, which is an extremely valuable single point that doesnt lose you that much st to take

[primal dove]

trying to use this macro:
#showtooltip
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
but doesnt seem to work? doesnt let me cast black powder but will change once coup is available

[peak ice]

Should work, if you have a coup up though you have to be a little closer to get it to go off so you can go back to black powder though

[lilac stag]

Put it on your regular bar and your stealth bar.

[tribal blade]

I DID

[short radish]

👍

didnt want stinky @lilac stag stealing your credit

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[peak ice]

Keys have been feeling real good this week

[tribal blade]

WE are groot

[jade oasis]

if coup is up you need to be in range

[hazy breach]

Small bugfix update:

• Swap off Weaponmaster on Single target into: Finality 2/2 Improved Secret Technique (#subtlety-faq has updated talent codes)
• The clones from Weaponmaster and Shuriken Tornado does not give you any Shadow Technique stacks from Ancient Arts, this bug has now been properly implemented in simcraft which made Weaponmaster as a talent quite a bit weaker, and therefore no longer worth picking up, even for pure singletarget. There was no change ingame, it was just in simcraft to better reflect the bugs present in the game.
• This is why you are simming lower than before if you are using Latest on raidbots.

[jade oasis]

very interesting

[golden totem]

[tribal blade]

how significant is the diff?

[short radish]

TFD ENJOYERS RISE UP

[hallow mortar]

Was about to ask

[hazy breach]

You can sim on latest to find out

[tribal blade]

cool cool

[hazy breach]

But its like -0.6% to compared to finality now, instead of +0.6%

[tribal blade]

also has the added benefit of being better as soon as you have more than 1-2 targets

[peak ice]

Sorry weapon master is -.6% worse than 2/2 finality?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[fossil forge]

Nah but with tfd

19second dance window

go bananas

[short radish]

TFD ENJOYERS RISE UP

[tribal blade]

cool it's +0.3% for me with my setup

[hallow mortar]

0.4 for me

[hazy breach]

With the default profile it seems like ~2.5 minutes is where tfd breaks even

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

he's ascending

[short radish]

im so running it next week

[peak ice]

Were we running weapon matter in m+ build

[tribal blade]

ok now i'm kinda depressed

[hazy breach]

No

[tribal blade]

we get 2 cool new clone talents

[peak ice]

Aight cool

[tribal blade]

and don't run either

[hazy breach]

I mean you havent been running nado either tbf

[fossil forge]

fk nado..

filler ahh button

[hazy breach]

Its not a button

Anymore

[tribal blade]

great movie reference

[fast dome]

I mean you CAN

[hallow mortar]

sadge, no glooming

[tribal blade]

nah

[tribal blade]

SIMMING GLOOMBLADE

/dead

[short radish]

my mate made a char called mountainjew because he was a jew that did body building

[peak ice]

Poor gloomblade

[tribal blade]

HAHA nice

[hallow mortar]

goremaw only 0.8% behind tho

[short radish]

no

[tribal blade]

the guy who introduced me to wow was a huge jewish guy who did bodybuilding

he was an ultra nerd

but all the jocks liked him because he was a house

[hazy breach]

You can use combinations instead and it will auto everything like that, if you leave the name empty

[hallow mortar]

oh nice

[hazy breach]

Right clicking on a talent blocks it

[hallow mortar]

and can i make raidbot keep haste cap?

[hazy breach]

Not really no, you can remove your oils and it will try to compensate

To like 650 or whatever

[hallow mortar]

yeah thats so lame tho

you cant set option for haste cap or any cap really

[tribal blade]

oh have they fixed the adamantite stones yet

[hazy breach]

Nop

[tribal blade]

cool

[hallow mortar]

i was looking at logs and did not find anyone using them

[jade oasis]

guys

yk what’s even crazier than this

might change the future of sub forever

.

[tribal blade]

i think it's a very niche thing

not a lot of people know about it

[hallow mortar]

yeah i mean i was looking at known top loggers at that time

which are like here

[tribal blade]

ahhh

[hallow mortar]

but with wep ilvl going up next week, will it increase the power?

of that adamantite stones

[jade oasis]

id think so

[hallow mortar]

idk whats actual gain of it as now

if i can sim it

[hazy breach]

You cannot easily sim them no, as theyre too old

[shrewd lantern]

Drop your mh 9 ilvl

on sim

[peak ice]

Are they the same ones from tbc

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah

i mean the gain is minor but still a gain

people forget that minor differences are minor

[jade oasis]

people like min maxxing though

[shrewd lantern]

yeah but it doesnt mean you need minmaxed to get r1 logs

otherwise everyone would be panda

[runic sinew]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Light's Potential
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[shrewd lantern]

people still play belf rogue

in 2026

[peak ice]

Is that an issue?

[hallow mortar]

im pretty sure some of my rogues is belf

[jade oasis]

almost all my rogues r

nelf and orc

and that’s not changing

[shrewd lantern]

no its just funny since

belf hasnt been good

since bfa

[jade oasis]

arcane torrent

[shrewd lantern]

dog ass racial ngl

[jade oasis]

all my rogues r meant for pvp

[peak ice]

You get the not looking like a gnome buff

[jade oasis]

so

[hallow mortar]

its funny racial in cavers

[jade oasis]

no way in hell am i playing anything other than orc nelf

[shrewd lantern]

i mean granted

i got my first glad as belf

[jade oasis]

arcane torrent

[shrewd lantern]

once in a blue moon you purged favor

with it

[hazy breach]

Your loss buddy

[fossil forge]

Ancestral call jail

[shrewd lantern]

and kicked for kill

[jade oasis]

orc racial is kinda just op

and meld is op

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/shufuspanda-shufusdance-pandadance-pandaren-dance-wow-panda-dance-gif-13868568054864870652

[jade oasis]

so

[shrewd lantern]

absolute unit

[hallow mortar]

my rogue was originally undead, that was the pvp play back than

[shrewd lantern]

It's hella watered down

you aint playing with 20% hardiness lil bro

[shrewd lantern]

so 2006?

[hallow mortar]

wotlk

[jade oasis]

i wish i had the attention span to play classic

[jade oasis]

mine too actually

[shrewd lantern]

depends when you played wotlk

undead got nerfed mid wotlk

[jade oasis]

on a wotlk pserver

[shrewd lantern]

and fem human was just better

after

[jade oasis]

my first ever character was undead rogue

sometimes i find it crazy ive been playing this game as long as i have

and then i remember people have been playing it for like 20 yrs +

[shrewd lantern]

there were a few glad seasons i was tempted to go orc

[hallow mortar]

than i swapped to rocket jump with cata

[shrewd lantern]

due to a few games i could have greeded with hardiness

if you're not playing rated it dont matter tbf

then my hot take is i hate playing rmp

LMFAO

[jade oasis]

dude

thug>

my favorite comp

[shrewd lantern]

nah

q pisscleave

[hallow mortar]

i played only 2v2

[shrewd lantern]

eww

[jade oasis]

i play for glad mounts

bc

i still live in regret

for being bad in shadowlands

and not getting glad mount back then

[serene notch]

I think GV slots only come from the bosses you beat right?

[jade oasis]

tears drop down my face everytime i see someone on one

[shrewd lantern]

undead wasnt good in sl

[jade oasis]

idk what was good in sl

[shrewd lantern]

idk SL mounts were aight

[jade oasis]

i played warr back then

[shrewd lantern]

legion drakes farmed them

though

or even df dragons

[jade oasis]

that was my first ever retail expac

actually my first wow experience outside of private servers

[shrewd lantern]

pservers are cool

[jade oasis]

df drags look cool

[shrewd lantern]

its a speedrun to get called the nword

[jade oasis]

but idk something abt shadowlands mount

just clicks for me

[jade oasis]

i have a lot of hate message screenshots on my old pc

[shrewd lantern]

there's just something about classic and pserver andys

[jade oasis]

i was a pos back then

[shrewd lantern]

that are 40 year old uncs who still sling the nword

and play wow with a tv on max volume

in the background

[jade oasis]

also me and my friends were genuinely the worst edgy 13 yr olds ever

[shrewd lantern]

13 is different

[jade oasis]

guild names and character names were gross looking back at it

[shrewd lantern]

from being a grown ass man still saying ts

Average kids i see nowadays come off as the biggest birth control ad

[jade oasis]

my first raiding experience was naxx and i got banned for insulting loot council for giving my BiS wep to a hunter

gkicked

not banned

i did eat a few suspensions on warmane in my time playing

[jade oasis]

i mean the same

is in retail

i got called slurs by a warlock for LoSing his cds

it’s just they’re more likely to get banned

[shrewd lantern]

well yeah its always in pvp

always the low rated andys

guilds the biggest red flag is if there's a couple

in any officer position

[jade oasis]

i was playing solo blitz yesterday

actually nvm

[shrewd lantern]

I mean......

[rain swift]

when guild master and raid leader is one

[jade oasis]

dude

rbg players

r

ill

[shrewd lantern]

checks out if you consider how many slurs i saw in rbg cords

or people that would be friends with the jeffey

[jade oasis]

i remember i had to leave an rbg guild

bc gm was bragging abt being with a 16 yr old

[shrewd lantern]

This isnt immediately one unless

theres a couple

imo

[jade oasis]

little 15 yr old me was disturbed

[rain swift]

wtf

[jade oasis]

and i was a edgy little teenager

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah that happens even at hero range rbgs

[jade oasis]

xd

[rain swift]

and how old was the gm?

[jade oasis]

like 30 something

[rain swift]

brother ew

[jade oasis]

yeah bro

rbg player stereotype is bad

[rain swift]

i havent touched the rbg community but now i for sure wont

[shrewd lantern]

m+ player one is slowly getting there

if you check some healer players higher up

who clearly play below the rating

[jade oasis]

i lwk contribute to this.

boosted my gf to 3k and i gen see her do 60k dps overall in people’s keys

[rain swift]

what class?

[jade oasis]

demo lock

[rain swift]

ah, my gf plays frost mage and is out dpsing me in keys now kekw, it'll get better just give it time haha

[jade oasis]

she’s been mog collecting and mount collecting

[rain swift]

same here atleast i get free portals

[jade oasis]

but i need to train her bc she wants the 3400 mount thingy

[formal pollen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rain swift]

seems we're living the same life then

[somber sun]

this might be a giga dumb question. but do you guys use this macro too ?

or do blades and pot separately

[rain swift]

i do blades, pot and racial (blood fury) on same macro, and dance + sectech on seperate

[jade oasis]

i pot separately

i like having control of when to use

[rain swift]

anyone got a recommendation for any alt to play if u find rogue fun? trying paladin now and it feels too braindead to play, dont even have to think about what im doing

[jade oasis]

i like warrior

i also like enhance

also resto sham is super fun if you wanna try not dpsing

[rain swift]

yeah i played resto shammy and resto druid in dragonflight which was quite fun, havent touched them since tho, might give it another try

[surreal orbit]

got the box, you guys using prepull or getting max combo first

[rain swift]

max first

[surreal orbit]

w

[rain swift]

i usually get my 7 combo points, puzzle then my macro for blades, pot and blood fury into the opener

[surreal orbit]

hell yah

[somber sun]

insane aura

[somber sun]

lowkey

dh havoc

or survival hunter

[rain swift]

isnt dh havoc very bad right now? i think every dh ive seen so far has been devourer

[tribal blade]

nah havoc is fine i think

it's just not dev

[plain quest]

Surv, WW and Enhance are go to's

[somber sun]

bro where is it on the damage stats

did it go extinct

[rain swift]

I'll get my pally to 90 first for the xp boost then I'll go take a look at those

[tribal blade]

doing better than sub in raid overall

[somber sun]

yeah sorry

didnt see it

also yikes true

[tribal blade]

that's just paladins diff

[somber sun]

I need someone to make sub look bad in current m+ international

so we get another buff

[plain quest]

we will also get less invites

[rain swift]

bribe top rogues

[somber sun]

we already don't get enough

[plain quest]

oh i know i pug most of the time

[tribal blade]

if rogue in general wasn't so dogshit on paladins

[plain quest]

its rough

[tribal blade]

we'd look better on the overall stats

[somber sun]

I mean sub is very nice to play

[surreal orbit]

my AOE is always my mouse btns 4&5 and its honestly so fire

[somber sun]

just sucks sometimes that you have no room for errors

[surreal orbit]

no strain on wrist pressing buttons

[jade oasis]

yall get invites?

[somber sun]

while the uhdk is spamming random shit

[rain swift]

yeah i love how sub rogue feels honestly

[somber sun]

[jade oasis]

i still get declined for weekly 10s while im 3500

[somber sun]

ohhh

and they tell you

[tribal blade]

yeah sub now is mostly about dance execution

[somber sun]

LF meta squad

for my +10

[jade oasis]

yes bro

[rain swift]

i tried to play assass and i think im just a skill issue, i was below tank in a +10

[jade oasis]

i see decline into inviting a uhdk

it’s so dumb tho

all the dks and dhs that do dmg

aren’t doing keys under 18s

[tribal blade]

sin blows in low keys

but not enough to be below tank

[jade oasis]

all the ones i play with suck

[tribal blade]

sin just takes WAY too long to ramp

[jade oasis]

only good dh ive played with is the one in my guild

and that guy is pushing 20s rn

[rain swift]

yeah, the spec looks cool af imo but im just tilting at myself

[plain quest]

they just need to rework atrophic poison to be something more useful, like a crit vulnerability debuff or something, insta invites

[somber sun]

yeah swapping to sin time to time feels good

[tribal blade]

it's just not possible to do dmg when everything dies in 10 seconds

[somber sun]

vanguard

as someone said here, you would usually perform in all vs

on vanguard I just ask rl to swap to sin and carry me

[tribal blade]

just a crit/haste aura

nothing fancy

atrophic being fancy is what led it to be kinda shit

[short radish]

good spec

[jade oasis]

on paladins

my 97 parse

was 100k below

[tidal solstice]

Evisc back on nimble fury and we gucci

[jade oasis]

dev dh 80 parse

[jade oasis]

SS cleave….

[tidal solstice]

Your auto-attacks, Unseen Blade, and Coup de Grace Finishers also strike up to 7 nearby enemies for 50% of normal damage while Flawless Form is active.

give us some quadratic scaling with sectec like uh dk

[jade oasis]

like actually i wanna be able to

evis in aoe

[plain quest]

i kinda miss rupture tbh

[jade oasis]

would be nice if like

[rain swift]

what was rupture?

[jade oasis]

we got the simplification that sin got for spreading dots instead of completely removing it

[jade oasis]

bleed

[rain swift]

aah

[lilac stag]

What I do now?

[jade oasis]

the same rupture sin has

use black powder to spread ruptures

[plain quest]

i was thinking giving us some kind of CT that just applies rupt in AOe but give it like a 30-40 second cd, not OP but would help with cleave

[jade oasis]

AND let it be uncapped

spread 20 dots in one button

[lilac stag]

It won’t. Arms cleave isn’t good because of aoe rend.

[rain swift]

watch every other ability get nerfed to the floor if that were to happen

[jade oasis]

i liked spreading ruptures while my tank was gathering

now i just build combo and do nothing

so boring

[lilac stag]

play assa. You can still do that.

[jade oasis]

i pull aggro when i start sending envenoms

until trickster sin is out

not playing it

[short radish]

#subtlety message

[lilac stag]

Just cast tricks while “gathering”

[lilac stag]

I told fuu who made it. I cleaned it up.

Prophet clipped part of the notepad app

[jade oasis]

i cast it on pull

[lilac stag]

Sure you do

[jade oasis]

i literally only pull aggro on the mob i send envenoms into

[lilac stag]

Remember he rotted his brain in outlaw for two weeks and then turned into a DK.

[tribal blade]

HELL yeah

[lilac stag]

Your original.

[tribal blade]

hahaha

it's got character

[lilac stag]

The artifact text just floating there killed my designer soul

[tribal blade]

did another with reduced word count

[lilac stag]

I need pit keys on warrior if you are bored this weekend

[spiral needle]

is black powder stronger than evis on 2 targets with the mastery talent

[lilac stag]

Yes

Evis slightly more priority. Just not enough to be worth it over BP

#subtlety-faq

[spiral needle]

ahh if only i could read

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/go-for-it-you-can-do-it-encourage-do-it-gif-14006408

[tribal blade]

haha should be around

[lilac stag]

I got 3 10s done yesterday while progging paladins.

[spiral needle]

i stopped at the BP on 3 targets and would have seen the talent answer below if I wasn't lazy

[lilac stag]

I should hit 285 in rogue Tuesday so saving crests leaving now warrior

[lilac stag]

No worries. There’s a lot to sort out for a 2 button spec.

[spiral needle]

love my 2 button spec that needs a separate bind for trinket

[placid pivot]

what dungeon should i roll my rerolls on

[alpine wraith]

skyreach or xenas for me mostly

but also depends

if you dont need dagger and some other things

xenas has the rings and pit has the general gear too

[surreal orbit]

is 156m - 127k dps overall respectable for an AA 10 key

[tribal blade]

depends on your ilvl

for 280+ not really

[surreal orbit]

doing the plant pull in 2 probably not ideal for overall dps xD

[tribal blade]

true!

[surreal orbit]

ive been topping my groups so thats positive

[short radish]

so 2 things

1. Log your keys and you can see the key % parse which is generally a good indicator if you've done well or not (though as prophet said shit happens with routes that can make your damage suck)
2. 10 keys are kinda whatever because everybody and their mother does them so it's not always a super accurate representation

[shrewd lantern]

How your tank pulls is gonna super swing your overall

also buffs help

[upbeat sorrel]

[tribal blade]

i'm not 100% sure about this, but there's something about key logs that are weird and unreliable people have told me

that they take into consideration how fast you timed the key or something

so much so that back when i was pushing everyone would only look at raid logs to vet people for keys

[ornate lake]

Gaymers is there a situation (in both keys and raid) where :-

1>you would sec tech without dance (outside of blades)
2>you would sec tech without supercharge (outside of blades)

[tribal blade]

1: on beloren to prep for egg phase if you want to bank SC

2. nah

actually 2 is the same as 1 lol

[ornate lake]

In keys?

[tribal blade]

can't think of anything in keys

[short radish]

yeah i'd never send naked sectech in keys

in raid it pops up maybe once a fight

when things are out of sync

but that might have been a pbox thing

and is almost never worth it if you dont know what youre doing

[tribal blade]

yeah i can imagine you try to be clever sending a naked sectec and accidently misalign all your shit

DANGER

[short radish]

i'd rather send a naked dance (for supercharger)

in keys

than a naked sectech

[tribal blade]

very true

there wouldn't really be any point in sending a naked sectec anyways, you would just throw it out with dance

and then cd them both at the same time

[ornate lake]

I generally send naked dances when I'm sure I'll get 2 charges at the next blade. Even if they are desynced upto 8-10 seconds, you'll get the second charge back within <=8 seconds of blades

[shrewd lantern]

i mean they generally always align

besides you wait 10 for sb

sometimes

[placid pivot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stuck lance]

So new pin is just swap weaponmasyer to finality in st and no change for aoe

?

[placid pivot]

wait we still use smkoe cloud over scuples

in m+?

[tribal blade]

i would recommend no scruples

[drifting ether]

I saw the thing with double finality but it sims worst for me https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1yT3JhkRUAJBRSUYgbD7DX

[small sleet]

sim on latest not weekly

[drifting ether]

Legend

[hollow spear]

I sim on monthly

[brisk onyx]

our some guildmates forget to pick the week buff and we killed lura

[tribal blade]

HUGE

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2756478320?t=2h11m9s oh i just realized the arms warr was streaming the 1 18 i did of this season

watching it back now

she was OVER THE MOON we timed this key

got her 18 resil

[brisk onyx]

🥳

[tribal blade]

that was quite literally my first time play sin in AA

so i just did it by the seat of my pants

[drifting ether]

Sheesh your damage

[tribal blade]

it was ok! i did pretty well all things considered

first 18 of the season on top of first time playing sin in AA

[drifting ether]

Ayy lets go

[tribal blade]

ngl i actually found it easier timing high keys playing with 0 expectations of going for title

because i'm completely relaxed as opposed to being on edge

[thorn basin]

i played cloud cover in m+ with big pulls and liked, sims:
m+ 0.5 -> cloud cover
m+ -> no scruples
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sZYJLGNPWfoCHvRadxTinx

[serene tapir]

Tbh title dont do much good to the common person. Do it if u like it else f*ck it😃

[tribal blade]

hehe trueee

that was a big reason why i stopped, didn't have the same desire anymore

[serene tapir]

Same for me but i stopped pushing end of SL. Now i just like some quality keys the small amount i play wow. Which means i ”only” have Done all on 17s atm but all good since i just want do do some keys my 1h daily m+ 😃

[tribal blade]

not bad!

i'm around the same as you

i just gave myself a rule to only do any sort of high key with guildies haha

other than that 0 pugging

so i get to still do the occasional key push once in a while without the stress of sitting in lfg all day every day

[serene tapir]

GG! Thats the spirit alot more ppl should approche for the health of it 😃

[tribal blade]

yeah it's nice

[serene tapir]

Cuz notice alot of ppl dont actually like playing higher keys. They just do it out of force…

[tribal blade]

the hardest part was managing fomo, but it's not so bad now

[tribal blade]

YES

i liken it to mental illness

[serene tapir]

For sure!

But time to do irl stuff! Enjoy your day!

[tribal blade]

you too!

[short radish]

p*shers are cringe

[tribal blade]

TRUE

[short radish]

and title is only a time investment not skill investment

[tribal blade]

TRUREUTURURRURURUUE

i can't wait for you to go for title

was also watching one of your countrymen earlier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7UM8TSCxBU

[short radish]

i think our group is going to disband before that happens since

we only play like 4 or 8 hours a week (1 or 2 nights) and our warrior will ragequit because he can't press dps buttons in the correct order

[tribal blade]

LOL

yeah ragequitting doesn't mix with key pushing

[short radish]

he's going to crash out over his low dps (he already has been)

when im 80% sure he's just playing wrong

[tribal blade]

oh yeah

[short radish]

even though he thinks its something to do with not being able to ramp properly or something

last i checked arms wasnt supposed to press cleave in ST

[tribal blade]

it's happened to me in the past where my numbers are too low, the fix is putting time into learning what you're doing wrong

[short radish]

but what do i know

[tribal blade]

i think maybe when it's buffed by colat?

but other than that nah

maybe

i have no idea

[short radish]

@lilac stag youre an arms warrior main

when do you press cleave

acutally can you log review

[tribal blade]

lol you can ask my guildie to log review

he actually cooked up the latest slayer M+ build

[keen dome]

with number bigger than 3

Counting hard for warrior though

[tribal blade]

i dont have enough fingers for that

[short radish]

it's even worse in OCE because all the people who refuse to play on 200 ping (both oce to na & na to oce) makes the queue base so much smaller

UNDERCOVER ROGUE???

YEAH NO FUCKING SHIT YOURE NOT GETTING INTO GROUPS

THAT ISNT A MYTHIC + GATE KEEPING ISSUE

ROGUE ISSUE

YOU FUCKING MUPPET

[tribal blade]

YUP

[short radish]

(i dont disagree with his points though)

[tribal blade]

LOL TRUEEE

[keen dome]

what's an undercover rogue

[tribal blade]

yeah he actually chose one of the worst classes to pug with

[tribal blade]

super duper mega ultra stealth

[short radish]

stealth stealth

[tribal blade]

stealth squared

[keen dome]

Get invited on a meta class and then go "hang on guys can you invite me on my alt I need to trade" and then the alt is the main rogue

and you just don't leave

[short radish]

oh no he's a wooly mammoth gamer

[tribal blade]

lol i wonder if that ever actually works

[tribal blade]

he's extinct?

[short radish]

nah they just have like

9 raid teams

i dont even think thats an exaggeration

[keen dome]

it would work on me, I'd be like "damn. That's some dedication"

[short radish]

nvm they have 12

[peak ice]

Oh

[keen dome]

12 raid teams???

[peak ice]

You kiwi too

[short radish]

no im not one of those sheep fuckers

[keen dome]

12 raid teams????

[peak ice]

Booo

[short radish]

i swear it was 8 last expansion

[keen dome]

12???

How does it even work

[tribal blade]

damn you just called an aussie a kiwi

them fighting words

[frosty ravine]

How is sub doing in 15-17 keys compared to other 2 rogue specs?

[peak ice]

I’m allowed

I’m kiwi

[tribal blade]

oh ok

OH

[short radish]

[tribal blade]

i flew into melbourne one time and saw the all blacks at the airport

does that make me kiwi too

[keen dome]

Is this, like, a NoP situation

[short radish]

weird time to be racist but okay

[peak ice]

Ye sure

[tribal blade]

LOL

[short radish]

yeah overall the guy has good points but idk im still going to gatekeep

i think this video would have been better last expansion

not this one

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm not sure i fully agree

it's completely people's perogative to invite how they want

it's your key

[short radish]

i ranted a bit about it in #assassination but there are too many bob smiths with 3 jobs and 4 kids playing the game at 275 ilvl but are dogshit

[tribal blade]

you can do w/e you want with it

[short radish]

yeah exactly

he's not wrong but he's not right

re: talking about the community

need to take a step even further back

and realise that WOW IS A GAME THAT IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED WITH PEOPLE

WHERE YOU TALK TO THEM

AND MAKE FRIENDS

[tribal blade]

that's true yeah

[short radish]

and everyone has forgotten that

like yeah okay sure it'd be nice if everyone invited everyone

[tribal blade]

i think lfg started destroying that back in wotlk

[neon frigate]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1501624130758508605/Screenshot_2026-05-06_at_7.43.04_PM.png

[short radish]

but 70% of the population is shit

and 90% of the population are dps

so like you cant invite everyone

so you have to gate keep

[tribal blade]

also a key is a ~30 minute time investment

with starting the group and travel time etc

more like 40-60 mins

[peak ice]

I just sorta grab whatever comes tbrough first and isn’t a boomie or from some random server

[tribal blade]

which is a lot of time

so people naturally want the best outcome possible

[atomic bobcat]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

if keys were like 10 mins

yeah people woudln't "gatekeep" as much

but the consequences of putting together a bad key group are not great

[short radish]

is "some random server" the servers im thinking of?

[tribal blade]

you waste a shitton of time

[short radish]

also fuck boomkins

[tribal blade]

and also your key gets depleted if it's not resil

[peak ice]

Ehhh it’s normally oce servers only

[short radish]

tbh you have to seriously try hard to brick 10s

it's definitely doable

especially skyreach for some reason

but you gotta be really really bad

[keen dome]

[atomic bobcat]

will you boost voras dagger? or crafted first? (for people who still didnt kill belo Myth)

[peak ice]

Boost the highest ilvl

[keen dome]

Vora first

then trinkets

then crafted / OH

[peak ice]

Wonder if we gotta run the 3 dungeons to get it first

[keen dome]

I'm curious if it'll work like the pvp one which is already active

You get sliver drops and combine 5 of them into the upgrade item

[peak ice]

Probably just the same as the current cores work tbh

[atomic bobcat]

the boost is capped 1 weekly? or just grind?

[keen dome]

We're not sure yet

[peak ice]

Not sure

[keen dome]

The PvP one works in a "get 5 items, combine into 1 upgrade item" but otherwise it's a little unknown

[tribal blade]

all i know is when i get invited to a 10-12 to do some weekly keys

i fucking DESTROY that key for them

[peak ice]

Yuh

Feels good

[tribal blade]

there's a reason they want people with higher IO

[peak ice]

And then I go back to getting shit on in 16s

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's a lot of fun doing 10's

[peak ice]

Feel like the mid demon hunters are struggling now

[atomic bobcat]

i got assa in 16+ , tho the stats were closer before the recent change

[tribal blade]

that's the classic fotm thing

there's a billion bad fotm players out there

[keen dome]

Always are, they're the key assassins

[tribal blade]

if i really want my key to go well and it's remotely high

i check logs

because goddamn

a lot of the fotm specs in lfg will have the highest IO out of the bunch

you go to their logs

it's like gray/green mythic parses

and like green/blue heroic parses

[keen dome]

Someone I know just got a load of boosting. They're not very good and the logs show they're boosted as hell. And then they started complaining they can't get invited to 14's, etc. Just grey parses, obviously boosted keys (1 key at 13, for example, with 3.5k+ people and them with 2.9k).

It's really strange behaviour to do that, then immediately get angry that people won't invite you

[tribal blade]

i'm not even sure if people at the 14 level look up parses

but yeah makes sense

[keen dome]

Yeah.

I've always been curious about the mindset, and I wonder how many people do it.

[tribal blade]

lots of people are willing to get boosted

i don't get it

[keen dome]

It's the boosted then pretending it's legit part.

And being annoyed when it's very obvious haha

[tribal blade]

i've missed making title on a lot of seasons for whatever reasons, usually just not playing well enough

but never once has it crossed my mind to buy a boost

[keen dome]

ye, same. I have my dumb goals but they're fun 'cos I have to improve to achieve them.

AotC week 1/2 via pugging is only fun because it's tough

[tribal blade]

hell yeah!

[keen dome]

Getting that Mythic Chim kill via pugging was extremely fun

[tribal blade]

that's pretty cool

[short radish]

i bought a normal clear on my dk to try get a guidon (that didnt end up dropping anyway)

and thats about it

some people just have a shit ton of gold though

[keen dome]

Raid clears are often a conveience thing

I have a buddy who swaps alts a lot, and she just buys heroic boosts to quickly gear. It makes a lot of sense.

Way easier than wasting time in pugs

[tribal blade]

i've done that before as well yeah

[uncut juniper]

The power of money

[tribal blade]

buying boosts for content i've already cleared

on alts

[short radish]

yeah i think a week 1 thing to just get the quicker boost

i ended up paying 200k for a heroic guidon that dropped in a pug i was in

[uncut juniper]

I wish I know how to make gold, I’m broke as hell

[short radish]

alt conc shuffle gets me like 200k a week or something

probably less now

[keen dome]

Crafting orders

[short radish]

also selling boosts

[keen dome]

I just make JC stuff for people while I idle in WoW doing other things.

[keen dome]

That's two zeroes!

just need another number in there

[short radish]

alternatively

the easiest way to get gold

is just get a job

and buy tokens

[keen dome]

Not as fun as idling in the city posting in trade though

[lilac stag]

CS - Sweeping - Demolish - CLEAVE to dump all the rage

[short radish]

what about in ST?

[lilac stag]

auto attack.

arms ST sucks

[brazen stone]

is this correct for pure single target talents?

[short radish]

no more wm

[lilac stag]

You’re not pressing cleave in ST

[short radish]

ty

[lilac stag]

Slam is your nothing else to do rage dump in ST

[short radish]

idk our warrior just doesnt do damage or something

[lilac stag]

did you steal our warrior?

[short radish]

yeah you can have him back

[lilac stag]

Arms is all priority based. There’s a number of procs. It is probably one of the more difficult specs to play right.

button purge also didn’t really hit them

fury is more straight forward and last set of buffs likely makes it play what you enjoy.

[short radish]

think for p*sh keys arms vs fury is kinda equal now?

[lilac stag]

It’s probably close with proper gearing. Fury much better ST.

[short radish]

what about prio?

[short radish]

damn big uppies

[lilac stag]

Imp Whirlwind lets you do ST dmg and cleave into 4 targets.

priority is fine. It just falls being on the huge pulls. Makes up for in in ST

[short radish]

yeah th ats what we have an uhdk for i guess

[lilac stag]

It’s also more brain off

Well you have a sub rogue to balance out arms

[short radish]

except our our arms can only play fury or something

[lilac stag]

Subs ST really seems cracked now

In keys

[short radish]

yeah i like it

[lilac stag]

Your warrior is likely better just running what they’re better at

basically sub v outlaw at this point

[short radish]

fair

will make that recommendation then

[lilac stag]

Have them reach out to frozen

Way better for more detailed info

I know enough to be dangerous

[short radish]

yeah sent logs to prophet to pass on

[lilac stag]

Depending how long we’re on paladins I’ll keep getting my crash course in Woyer

[lime vortex]

Is there anything to analyse performance on raid ? Like wowanalyzer but updated for midnight

[lilac stag]

At 265 I was keeping up with 278-280 lock/hunter

as arms

[short radish]

sorry this is an arms warrior discussion channel

i'd do a !log

post your log

and hope someone looks at it

will get better answers (usually)

[thorny ridge]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

most of the time is misplaying dances

or using them at wrong times

[ornate lake]

Blasting

[drifting ether]

First 19 done!

[lilac stag]

What’s the boss dmg look like. Mire curious about fury compared to yours

[vale pine]

!stats

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1502605720099749898/image.png

[lilac stag]

@short radish

[drifting ether]

Pretty average fury he was died on first pull

[short radish]

thanks

[vernal junco]

perfect balance

[short delta]

!FUU

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[drifting ether]

Found that sham youtuber 🤣

[heavy ember]

if I swap between outlaw and sub, can I use my 1 hand sword on my off-hand?

[shy ermine]

No

[fallow nimbus]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[fallow nimbus]

Buy a dagger from ah or craft one with vet crests

[tribal blade]

lol nice, did he play ele or enhance

[unkempt rover]

what better now to have Cloud Cover or No Scruples for m+

[tribal blade]

i would recommend playing scruples

[drifting ether]

Still putting group together but he left and told me to invite the dk in que

[tribal blade]

AHH damn

almost got to key with the goat

[unkempt rover]

on sim still giving Cloud cover better

[drifting ether]

Hahaha i didnt even know who he was until my mate said hes on yt

[tribal blade]

it does yeah, but realistically in keys you're not sending blades on cd really

[tribal blade]

LOL oh damn

yeah he's very good

he RLs for his guild honestly

and he was on yoda's push team during TWW S1 when enhance was meta

he's an enhance main but been playing ele this season since enhance been kinda poopy

he's also a filthy aussie just like @short radish

his deadpan voice is also very fun to listen to

[short radish]

oh yeah tomato man

[tribal blade]

THE tomato man

[tribal blade]

what vegetable do you have for a head

[short radish]

onion

[fossil forge]

Would it be the cook running 800 haste with Gaze and Plume

Rly late szn

🤔

https://tenor.com/view/skate-kanji-cat-gif-18361256103636562809

[tribal blade]

i actually love onions

no joke

[short radish]

yeah they're delicious

[tribal blade]

my perfect burger is patty, bun, a FUCKTON of raw onions and ketchup

banger

[short radish]

did you know we had a minor country wide outrage because they made it mandatory to put the onions under the sausage (on the australian version of a hotdog) instead of on top

[tribal blade]

i think it's probably not terrible

[short radish]

and you know what

im still pissed about that

[tribal blade]

oh that's crazy

wait why mandatory

that's some facism right there

food facism

[short radish]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-15/farmer-applauds-bunnings-onion-advice-after-slip/10496568

2 decades of onions the right side up

ruined by one old wanker who can't see

[tribal blade]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

no fucking way

that's actually so funny

[wild vine]

thats certainly a valid outrage

[wild vine]

onions are the topping

not the subbing

[short radish]

💯

these things

are important

and im glad you understand mate

[tribal blade]

this is a fucking onion article

[short radish]

we may disagree on somethings

[tribal blade]

like the joke article

[short radish]

but we agree on the important part

[tribal blade]

that's amazing

this is like "man steps in dogshit"

"we need to kill all the dogs"

[wild vine]

ngl I would rather slip on an onion every day than go against the actual laws of toppings

for everything thats right in the world

[short radish]

a true martyr for teh cause

[tribal blade]

who the fuck slips on an onion anyways

if you're slipping on an onion

you have bigger problems

what are all these words

[wild vine]

ye like, the surface of the onion slipping hazard would have to be big enough to cause slippery action before more of your foot touches the non-contaminated area of the floor

like with bananas I get it

they are big

(except mine)

[lilac stag]

The person that can’t see from their eyes watering from cutting said onion.

[tribal blade]

you can literally slip on anything

[wild vine]

but small onion pieces?

[tribal blade]

if it's on the ground

[wild vine]

ye but the surface area needs to be big enough

[tribal blade]

it does yeah

onions are pretty small

this article is full of gems

[wild vine]

unless they do their onions in like

discs

[lilac stag]

Onion slices are not small

[wild vine]

that would make it big enough on the meaty part of the onion to slip if you walk on the more front-sided portion of your foot

[tribal blade]

i'm sorry i can't stop posting these

[lilac stag]

Onion rings are not small

[tribal blade]

they keep getting funnier and funnier

[short radish]

what do you call a whipper snipper?

[wild vine]

but onion rings dont have much surface either

[tribal blade]

is that a hot dog made by a whipper snapper

[short radish]

no?

[tribal blade]

you weren't joking

[lilac stag]

Assuming it’s a kitchen food prep area. A little liquid on the floor not wearing non slip shoes. May as well call in osha

[short radish]

yeah no laughing matter mate

[wild vine]

oh I actually only thought about the serving area

[tribal blade]

you know from all my time around aussies

[wild vine]

not the kitchen

[tribal blade]

the one term i hear a LOT from them

is "health and safety"

i swear that term

gets thrown around by aussies every day

[short radish]

orly?

[tribal blade]

oh yeha haha

[wild vine]

hot take:
in germany we mostly eat fried onions on hotdogs. it tastes better!

[drifting ether]

Ooh yeah forgot hes aussie aswell

[lilac stag]

When I was a superintendent for home construction, the shit trades slipped on was comical if it wasn’t sad

Usually worn out shoes + whatever dumb thing they spilled and didn’t pick up

[vale pine]

i start to read chat and its all about oinons and sausage

[peak ice]

and health & safety

[tribal blade]

lol yeah

[tame notch]

Yeah i just came and im like „wtf”

[tribal blade]

the important things

[peak ice]

this is subtlety brain

[keen dome]

Damn

[hallow mortar]

so nothing new to you 😄

[short radish]

look if the onions being underneath the sausage can stop a country

it can stop a rogue spec discord channel for an hour

#lestweforget

#onionsareovernotunder

#oniongate

[quaint breach]

just ran a smooth MT +17 with this back equipt 🥲
https://www.wowhead.com/item=63206/wrap-of-unity

[vale pine]

i don't think we had a discussion around this topic before

[vale pine]

lol

[vale pine]

you mean, you got boosted?

[quaint breach]

haha, maybe?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gnJc4GmvCVTYDFqR?fight=49&type=damage-done

[short radish]

kk done with key

but yeah @tribal blade sausage and bread (and onions) are an important part to our society in australia

so much that we have a dedicated map to show where sausage sizzle stations are at for polling booths

https://democracysausage.org/south_australian_election_2026/m/@-34.94220,138.6018,z13.72293/

[lilac stag]

Is this the equivalent of pizza map to see when the US is entering an armed conflict?

[short radish]

kinda yeah

[tribal blade]

lol that's insane

[lilac stag]

https://www.pizzint.watch/

[short radish]

i swear we're a real country

[peak ice]

its the same here tbh

[tribal blade]

you guys definitely are

that makes me want to go back to visit no joke

[fossil forge]

nah but i just did the math

i can literally hit mythic discount on my alt faster

how over is this

i just need to grind like 400 crests rn

[hallow mortar]

yeah i did it on my hunter

i started playing him 2 weeks ago and he getting achiv before rogue

[coral pagoda]

how well is sub performing in m+ currentlyu

[void ocean]

Well well well

[lilac stag]

I’m just waiting until Tuesday. Get both rings from nxp + weapon to 298 and I can crest discount warrior.

[void ocean]

So we need 4 of those for the first upgrade, right?

That hammer thingy

[lilac stag]

It’s just 1

[void ocean]

Well it says 3/3 atm

Dunno what that means

[lilac stag]

That’s to prime it

[alpine wraith]

it needs 4 to get it ready

then we get 1 a week maybe

[lilac stag]

The currency is just 1

[void ocean]

We buy it as well?

[drifting ether]

i recorded this one do people watch sub rogue vods

[lilac stag]

not 100% sure but believe so

[tribal blade]

i do sometimes yeah

not so much this season

damn you were slamming that key

[drifting ether]

Might start chucking some on youtube then haha

[tribal blade]

yeah go for it

[drifting ether]

Bruh subs been feeling fun in keys now since i can keep up in dps

Well its not like high high keys

[tribal blade]

it's current title range keys so it's a pretty damn high key

i had the same feeling when i did sub keys at the start of the week

sub suddenly feels way better

[lilac stag]

we’re back to where it was before charrend beta nerfs and m0 week nerfs.

[drifting ether]

Ya 100%, i'll try outlaw out when i finished gearing my sub aswell

[plush roost]

I timed alg 20 without potent powder

It wss never about the nerfs it wss about sending a messgae

[fossil forge]

what was the overall

without pp

[plush roost]

Like 200k or something on details

[tribal blade]

i simmed it today, it's not a huge overall loss

[dusky yacht]

Charrend got us nerfed bro wtf

[plush roost]

I think its logged ill go look

[dusky yacht]

[fossil forge]

yea classic blackpowder merchant...

[wild vine]

are you using puzzle or guidon?

[plush roost]

I played ethically

Evis on bosses

No powders except to kill things !

[dusky yacht]

Should have only backstabbed and wrote reports complaining about low dps

[plush roost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6q7bcN3dgYATaDmP?fight=17&type=damage-done

With a disc priest too