subtlety

[robust iris]

!log

[tepid trellis]

its a bug

[grave delta]

Oh...

Whats the bug tracker command again

Been a while

[tepid trellis]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[fiery creek]

Why's SIM throwing in shuriken storms on Patchwork SIM then?

[grave delta]

Ty

[tepid trellis]

for deathstalker?

cuz of stance delay with shadow dance

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[tepid trellis]

there is a 0.1-0.2 delay

when pressing dance before you can strike

so thats why

[high grotto]

so for example on saladbar, its perfect to send and wait the extra 10 so you arent holding too long for burn phase

[exotic steeple]

so we would hold shadow dance at like 25 seconds of blades cd left ?

for 2x dance in blades

[tepid trellis]

if thats how the fight timers are then you would hold if its to make it fit in the amp

( i dont know the timers i havent looked yet since i raid tmrw for the first time)

[high grotto]

yeah saladbar does his beams at 1:45

which is a 25% amp i think

[chilly kite]

i love how raid requires us to shroud, but puzzlebox breaks shroud so we just have to miss lust time for everyone else -.-

[tepid trellis]

then you can do 3 dances between your blades on pull and that one

and be fine

[high grotto]

yeah

[exotic steeple]

feels weird holding on so long on dances

[jade shell]

Do you guys think Sub will perform better in M+ than Outlaw?

[high grotto]

i feel like a spud trying to do damage atm, parses are dogwater

[hollow spear]

don't see the point in parsing rn anyways

[chilly kite]

your not alone i parsed like an 80 something on dreamrift and was 14th in dps in the raid : /

[hollow spear]

I want to see the boss dead

[exotic steeple]

i got 85 lmao on averzan

[toxic carbon]

exile was doing 97 parses yesterday and was getting out dps'd by 40 parse helpers

[chilly kite]

but emergency fix unholy ami rite

[west bough]

which bosses are considered good for sub?

[bleak night]

[toxic carbon]

who's going to tell him

[grave delta]

[chilly kite]

bro we pass butter, thats all if we didn't have atrophic psn we wouldn't be in the raid

[high grotto]

oh im doing like 40 to 70 parses so i feel like my brain is smooth

[west bough]

im just arguing with a friend who has brain damage from playing bugged hunter so I gotta be informed better

[tepid trellis]

sub does have an insane tierset compared to most classes

[spare totem]

Can someone explain the AA thing to me like im braindead. I can't wrap my head around it for some reason.

[tepid trellis]

but its still not gonna be "amazing"

[mortal cargo]

Is vessel a sim bait or? i havent tried the trinket but heard its very iffy in melee

[hazy breach]

AA makes finisher better, so you want to make sure the biggest finishers are better

[vale pine]

you probably won't get similar results on many encounetrs

[chilly kite]

i took it off and doubled my dps in raid

[mortal cargo]

hahah

[spare totem]

THen what is point of shadow striking?

[vale pine]

i think it needs a visual update

[mortal cargo]

that sounds more of a skill isue tbf

[vale pine]

so the souls are easier to see

[hazy breach]

To proc it

[fair wedge]

aint no way man

[spare totem]

Wait that's it?

[exotic steeple]

thats a /gkick

[chilly kite]

you can't see that trinket proc in raid with all the visual clutter

[hazy breach]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[spare totem]

No way.. I just been playing like normal to be honest. I guess i been already doing it?

[tepid trellis]

alot of the time as trickster it happens naturally

[spare totem]

Okay i dont feel like a idiot now. Thank you!

[jade urchin]

i feel like 80% of the time it happens naturally

the aa stuff

[hazy breach]

As trickster yes

[jade urchin]

oh ye i didnt bother with deathstalker

i think gain is not high enough for the mental load it takes rn

[north schooner]

they already did improve that but until it becomes like antenna and have the souls move toward you I don't see being able to use it to its fullest. Its stacks being asynchronous means you have to constantly be on the lookout

[vale pine]

exactly, the main culprit is the extra mental load

[verbal kelp]

Trinkets question: I've got puzzle 263, vessel 250 and crucible 250... what would you choose between vessel and crucible? vessel seems kinda annoying for M+, but perhaps its easier to use in raid?

[random mason]

sim it

[onyx trail]

How come we dont sim this talent at all.. Seems like 1min 30 crit would be good for us no?

[boreal condor]

not an item from seasonal dungeons

[random mason]

unless you dont like using puzzle box then just use the other two

[verbal kelp]

i like using puzzle, so looking to understand between vessel and crucible, as the vessel orbs are hard to spot

[grave delta]

Considering the sec tech apex clone bug is it worth sending an evis before entering dance to not waste the chance at clone dmg?

[tepid trellis]

just ignore it and play like normal

[grave delta]

Are rogue buffs today or Tuesday morning

[vale pine]

possible, but who knows

[high grotto]

from my sources i heard more DK buffs

[vale pine]

[olive canyon]

goats have been sacrificed

willing to go up to rabbits

[rapid forum]

Lock needs a lot of help and arms has been over performing

[cloud rover]

Is there a way to override the restless soul trinket to have less stacks

[olive canyon]

trolling aside i would be fucking big mad if no rogue spec got some love

[torn tide]

if only i could get the tier pieces

[rapid forum]

Rogue not getting deleted is all the love we get. And we should be grateful for it. 🙏

[spiral pewter]

i dont know how many of u guyz tried sub rogue in pvp just nowadays, its themost fun ever:D

[tepid trellis]

the splits will bless me

[shell willow]

It is fun but frost mages are the bane of my existence right now.

[indigo wraith]

What is the odd we get buffed , I mean all rogue spec is bottom chart right now

[spiral pewter]

yea thats right 😛 but once u cath it :p

[tribal blade]

a lot of casters are pretty difficult to catch, frost mage is up there

i also found people focus rogues to kill a lot

i would be dominating a solo shuffle game and people would still choose to focus me over the weaker people

[alpine wraith]

idk if silhoutte still exists but the mark step cdr i think still does

that combo to step on allies is very good

to make people misposition

[tribal blade]

it does yeah but i don't think it's worth taking

there's way stronger stuff

actually you could take it nvm

[alpine wraith]

you still used to take it vs monk or warr match ups

if you didnt want your face caved in

[tribal blade]

i actually generally found melee comps easier to deal with

casters were the main thing giving me problems

[alpine wraith]

yea i havent pvp in a hot minute

you have seasons like that too

a cheat code kinda if you have another melee teammate to step on him instead of the enemies for super cdr

[azure thicket]

got 2nd boss with pugs and a dagger dropped..6th one this season

[alpine wraith]

or hunter/warlock pts

[azure thicket]

its raining knifes

[cloud rover]

We never use Shadow Dance without sec teach right

[alpine wraith]

there are some situations but not usual

[tribal blade]

it's probably just me being trash haha

[tribal blade]

yeah that's a good idea, i should have done that

[spiral pewter]

we just need to watch out their defansives tbh and dont just try to use 1 stuck of shadowstep because sometime uneed 2 for sure and at your GO u will be even more deadly

[tribal blade]

another good idea

[crystal bone]

u guys think the pvp questline is worth it?

for the hero neck

[tribal blade]

but thankfully i don't need to use any of it, i just ook ooked my way to 1600 😉

[jaunty heath]

Is chat safe now or trinket war still going on

[alpine wraith]

they got slammed in the neck

[tribal blade]

hey shut up i hate you

[alpine wraith]

so you wont see them around

[tribal blade]

respectfully

[jaunty heath]

Shees not safe again

[tribal blade]

❤️

[jaunty heath]

That pvp neck is actually crazy stats I will do it in case I dont have better by that time

[crystal bone]

the only haste/mast neck i could find

[jaunty heath]

Well at some point you will have too much haste

[tribal blade]

i might have dropped the quest what's it called

[torn tide]

i believe in the dream im calling it, youll get the helm

[jaunty heath]

Its at the guys which give weekly spark quest

[tribal blade]

nvm found it

[alpine wraith]

just need to win some bgs every week

now if you are me an dare 0/7

on bghs

might take a bit

[tribal blade]

bgs are my jam

that's the pvp i enjoy the most

[alpine wraith]

i need to win 1 epic for the seasonal quest

but i just cant

[tribal blade]

i think you have 2 options to be a menace

play sub and ninja objectives

or play sin and blender in mass fights

[crystal bone]

i think training grounds counts towards the quest, so i guess it's not terrible

[tribal blade]

oh you can training grounds yeah

[spiral pewter]

what is that neck we talk about guyz, how can we take it?

[tribal blade]

i'll do that this week why not

add it to the list

[tribal blade]

this quest

gives a hero neck at the end of the line

[spiral pewter]

ty Graham

[azure thicket]

idg epic bgs either

its for people who do 5v5 arenas or something?

[spiral pewter]

ow ive done that week 2 of 4 but can we finish whole quest line this week even?

[lilac stag]

Week 2 of 4

[azure thicket]

i have to sim how much of a dps loss it is to have acuity of rendori on offhand

now im sad

[lilac stag]

You have 2 more weeks

[spiral pewter]

well i tought so but they said u can have it this week

[tepid trellis]

guess the rogue is free from m0s

[spiral pewter]

ok then all cool

[lilac stag]

Who is “they”? Ask them to elaborate

[prime beacon]

am I allowed to ask for parse help in here? I'm trying to figure out why my attacks, pretty much across the board, and 40% less than similarly equipped players

[alpine wraith]

do you have shadow dance bound

[azure thicket]

could be apm

[fallow ingot]

do u guys have a vanish macro for preventing auto attack breaking the stealth ?

[bleak night]

Doesn't vanish already stop autos by default

[fallow ingot]

dunno why sometimes i cannot SS after vanish

[azure thicket]

someone else said to try and stagger the input after you vanish

its jank

[bleak night]

If youre pressing it too fast it could just be sending a backstab

[toxic carbon]

compare your logs, check if you are hitting the same amount of globals in dance as them

[fallow ingot]

hm ?

[lilac stag]

same reason you can’t dance + strike

[azure thicket]

i really like skill capped's takes on keybindings

they explain priority/placement mentality good

[night sparrow]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[night sparrow]

!faq

[azure thicket]

i guess i just run double acuity til 12.0.5

https://tenor.com/view/cry-gif-22246435

[fallow ingot]

we can't castsequance vanish SS ?

[astral mountain]

So we’re getting aoe blind back…again

[still gazelle]

REalistically with flag/guidon, once I press it, the delay is small enough I can hit my ST/Sblades macro immediately right?

[alpine wraith]

kinda yea

[junior ether]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[zenith egret]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

Where’d you see that

[prime beacon]

wow the black powder and coup macro is nice

[left ledge]

Oh

So they took it away

Just to give it back

I see

[left ledge]

Yeah they know what they’re doing

I can tell

[sick sand]

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder
why are we using this macro?

[astral mountain]

“The rogue community hates how clunky death mark is”

Let’s do what they suggested… but just for sin

[lilac stag]

Only lazy bums are using the macro

[hazy breach]

Deathmark != Deathstalkers mark

[north schooner]

that's assa dm

[hazy breach]

But also that talent is horrendous

Like actually fucking useless

[north schooner]

why didn't they bake that into dm by default is beyond me

[plush roost]

When i move my deathmark but kingsbane is left behind...

[azure thicket]

made sense a year ago

[astral mountain]

It’s so in aoe, you don’t have to press coup, it does more damage than black powder so in aoe, you can ss and bp and with the macro it auto uses coup when it’s up for you.

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/see-you-again-gif-23983026

[lilac stag]

Divorce is messy

[azure thicket]

gouge as baseline would be nice

[north schooner]

even the new crimson vial talent should just be rank 2 vial and be done with it

[exotic steeple]

fuck walmart

[hazy breach]

nah we need stuff to padd out the class tree thats actually somewhat useful somewhere

[exotic steeple]

whos reviewing logs btw´?

[astral mountain]

Is the sub smoke shadow blade thing they have even like worth anything? 😂

[plush roost]

If we need an important 1:30 amp style thing yes

[azure thicket]

maybe some dungeons will prefer it for big first pulls ?_?

[hazy breach]

Cloud Cover is effectively ~15% dmg during Shadow Blades, which seems very good but at the cost of 10% finisher crit it might not be the pick anyway. Regardless its significantly cooler than the unpickable talent its been since Tww Launch.,

[astral mountain]

So for flavor it’s usable now. But probably not optimal

[north schooner]

is flickerstrike used in pvp at least? because that's also kinda dog

[plush roost]

That talent would have went crazy on dimensius

[hazy breach]

Genuinely not sure it would

[plush roost]

U dont think a 15% stronger burn phase makes up for anything, esp on a fight where u hold damage a ton?

Seems like itd be insane to me

[hazy breach]

Its not 15% stronger, its 5%

Since you give up 10% damage to get it

[plush roost]

Well thats assuming u crit every finisher but ig

[alpine wraith]

yea so 20 secs of 5% extra dmg

vs the whole other 1 min 10 secs

[fiery creek]

anyone with know-how interested in having a quick look at what I could improve and/or what I'm doing wrong? 😄 HC Kill i.e:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dzZ23Vbkp1PQC9cF?fight=15&type=damage-done

[alpine wraith]

or well it might not be as bad

but maybe it has some niche uses

[hazy breach]

Like yeah it mightve been slightly better on dimmy

[alpine wraith]

still weaker overall but better than what we have now

[hazy breach]

But definitely not insane

[alpine wraith]

pvo talent to confuse people

with the normal smoke

so they panic trink

[left ledge]

seems like its the better option for fights with downtime

[alpine wraith]

and send defensives

[left ledge]

like cosmos

surely

[hazy breach]

I dont think its the play at all now

With current dance tuning

[alpine wraith]

just mastery stack to god given right lvls

big PP

[plush roost]

Not sure would have to see mythic timers but theres a lot of consistent damage required on that fight so probably not

It would be pretty funny tho slamming 6 supercharged apex finishers out the gate of intermission

[left ledge]

i mean how much dps is 10% increased finisher crit chance

[plush roost]

Quite a bit

[hazy breach]

Its not exactly 10%, but like 7-8% probably

[plush roost]

One more edit...

[left ledge]

its 7-8% increased crit?

[plush roost]

6-7...

Hehe

Its crit damage, and our crits already bang from other talents

[left ledge]

its crit chance no?

im on wowhead not in game so idk

this what i see

[plush roost]

Oh when did that change

[patent iris]

Stupid question - do I first get 6 CP then Shadow Dance or before?

[plush roost]

I swear it used to be damage

[swift tinsel]

I'm 99% sure its been chance the whole time

[plush roost]

K im fried

[hazy breach]

No its always been crit

[plush roost]

Probably thinking a different class xd

[swift tinsel]

we have a few talents that do either so they get jumbled lol

[hazy breach]

Ye i probably underestimated how much damage macabre/strike/unseen blade does

[left ledge]

does this mean 7-8% dps or you meant its actually 7-8% increased crit chance

[hazy breach]

Sims say its closer to 5.5-6%

[left ledge]

holy fk

[north schooner]

you are thinking of Planned Execution

[left ledge]

6% dmg from 10% increased finisher crit chance

our crits are that juiced huh

[hallow matrix]

Whenever i sim it's trying to move me away from 700~ haste to like 650 and take mastery/crit instead - is that because the sim doesn't factor in the increase haste breakpoint you guys advise for human error?

[fair vessel]

So we got a new talent that we will not be using?

[hazy breach]

I mean we might use it

[vale pine]

human error and latency make it better to have a bit more haste

[hazy breach]

Its replacing a talent we quite literally have never used

[left ledge]

think we just dont know yet, but it already on paper sounds better in niche situations

[vale pine]

there is the potential for more changes

so maybe some talent combinations make it even better

[surreal knoll]

I wish they kept it on distract, just cool flavor

[north schooner]

they might just add 1 extra stack or something, at least it's not doa like current cloud cover

[hazy breach]

Like if we get a stronger on-use trinket its probably solid

[vale pine]

but even if its just "as good" or "slightly worse"

[left ledge]

wow

[vale pine]

there could be some applications for it

[surreal knoll]

Or atleast the option to have either, i think it would be neat

[astral axle]

[north schooner]

distract and puzzle box before sending cds

[swift tinsel]

its natty on blades

no need to distract

[plush roost]

Ye is significant

[north schooner]

yes read up a bit

[astral axle]

tigole critties

chimerus is a fun fight but it made me sad

the lil shitter adds died so much faster than the big one

[junior ether]

where to use puzzle box, just on every shadow blades?

[west bluff]

i dont recall the last time i've felt so miserable during a fight as much as vanguard this season

[astral axle]

I just wanted to black powder

[astral axle]

before, use it like a 3m trinket

so puzzle -> blades -> etc

every other blades

[junior ether]

puzzle -> blades -> blades then puzzle -> blades if im correct?

[west bluff]

i think you save second blades for 30 seconds tu align second puzzlebox->blades

[junior ether]

ahh okay thats what i've been doing in dungeons, i guess some mechanics may make it easier to line it up

[west bluff]

oh well dungeons are a little more complicated, but on m+ i'd definitely consider if there's a big pull incoming or a nasty tyrannical boss

[junior ether]

yeah essientially, aka like first pull academy etc..

[west bluff]

sometimes saving even for a whole minute is beneficial

yes, or nexus-point/magister terrace bosses that gets %amped

[sweet heron]

my normal parses are trash. Do you all ever look at them to help?

[west bluff]

wish we didn't lose stealth while using it

[sweet heron]

New to rogue and wanna see if I'm doing anything wrong

[void ocean]

yes, you're playing it... RUN, you fool

[west bluff]

i can try

we're a small poor starving family, gotta take care of each other

[sweet heron]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/firetree/squa

❤️ thanks!

[glass nebula]

hey, quick one, how much haste is the desired one? 700 points? I am on 850 now with 600 mastery points and DPS is not so good..

[lilac stag]

do you have tier? Do you have haste trinket? Haste really won’t matter until you do.

700 is recommended. #subtlety-faq

more is fine

[glass nebula]

no tier (not even T2) and for trinks I currently have Chimaerus 250 and reputation one also 250

Good stuff, thanks mate

[elfin wadi]

was first dance changed to require 10 seconds out of combat?

[hazy breach]

Nop, its always been like that in pvp

[elfin wadi]

thanks

[gilded ferry]

question: is it better to upgrade 1 item to the fullest or 1 step each item?

[west bluff]

do you have questions in any specific fight that you struggled? i dont see any big mistakes, salhadaar fight the lust was used poorly as well

[sweet heron]

got it. No not really was just sad about my parses when I thought I played it okay. Just seeing how I can optomize

I also didn't use a 2nd pot which was not good

[west bluff]

the low parse can also be explained by many things in the beginning of the season, i see you don't have the big gem and chest enchant that are huge as well

[shell willow]

Is shuriken tornado a bad pick? At one point it was the swap for weaponmaster

[west bluff]

or people with 2-4 tier set parsing at the same ilevel

[sweet heron]

Got it, thank you ❤️

Yeah that's fair. My alt as 3 piece so I was going to get 4 next week and then farm tier on my rogue with the achievement

I know the gear isn't ideal but I just assumed no one was at this point. Appreciated lucas!

[solemn isle]

how do we do the ST opener with puzzle box?

[shell willow]

they hotfixed that need to get 4piece on each toon for cata

[hazy breach]

Press box before blades

[strange chasm]

Are you guys delaying ur 2nd dance in blades to ensure it lasts enough to fit that sec tech in the end of the blades window?

With 4 set

[fresh canyon]

Your parses crushes mine

[west bluff]

depeding on the fight do you believe it's worth box on like 10 seconds before pull?

[languid knot]

Ayo I'm in a 10man raid group how do I sim how much i'm missing from missing raid buffs?

[west bluff]

iirc my box wasn't aligning on averzian

[solemn isle]

ty

[hazy lichen]

What are other way of getting over heroic crest weekly limit other than nemesis

[left ledge]

you scroll down to sim options in raidbots and remove the buffs you dont have

[junior ether]

sorry for asking im new to macros stuff

i need to press it once?

to work

or i need to spam button

like 4 times or something

[left ledge]

why not just put your trinket on a different button

honest question

[languid knot]

oh got it ty Gloom

[left ledge]

then you dont have to cast sequence anything

[junior ether]

i have it there as well

but it's like 2 diff macro

1 just for opener no brain

and this one to use while cd off and pots are still cd

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

Bottom question

[junior ether]

ye i just read

gg

[gilded ferry]

Crown of Cosmos*: Tricksteer - Single Target

What part of the fight might bug with DS?

[left ledge]

no clue

i did crown as deathstalker

i did pretty well considering my gear is turbo dogshit, i have no tier, and i forgot to apply weapon oils

it might be a bit annoying in phase 2 where you're swapping alleria with the shade or whatever

but i just made sure to step to whatever my mark was on and get DN ready

this was my alleria p2 damage as DS

this is as trickster (p2 alleria)

trickster def fits the fight a lot better overall, but i found it infinitely easier to focus my damage into alleria (which we needed at least) as DS

[hazy lichen]

Does anyone know the other source of hero crests that dont count towards the weekly limit other than the nemesis

[azure thicket]

i think that's the only one?

[lapis zenith]

When I sim dungeon slice, I see that it prefers my OH weapon enchant to be Acuity of the Ren'dorei instead of Arcane Mastery. Should I actually do this for M+ or should I just use Arcane Mastery as most guides recommend?

[hazy lichen]

ive seen ppl with 80

the nemesis gives 60

[azure thicket]

i think that's a loot bug it only gave 35

[hazy lichen]

30 + 30

[azure thicket]

cap went to 60 after i got

nah i wouldn't have farmed delves for 80 crests if it gave 30 + 35

[hazy lichen]

the ? gives 30 and the ?? gives 30

[azure thicket]

ye ?? gives 30 myth

[hazy lichen]

and hero

[spare totem]

Is there really any difference rotation wise from trickster to Deathstalker?

[azure thicket]

i got 20 from housing endeavor quest and then 35 from ? boss

then did tier 10-11s to get the remainder

[hazy lichen]

its weird

cause im at 73

maybe tier 11 delves?

[azure thicket]

idk the world quest ui tooltips are bugged

again apparently

figured its just listing 30 twice for similar reasons

[hazy lichen]

nvm i have 80

[azure thicket]

sim also said it prefered acuity for both daggers for me

[vale pine]

thats fine too

[azure thicket]

but im sure the mastery will matter more once raw stats/tier etc is got

[vale pine]

2x agi is good, its also more expensive ^^

mixed sims better for the best profile

[hazy lichen]

acuity?

[short radish]

i can't believe i learnt that chuck norris died through trade chat

[azure thicket]

the mainhand enchant that gives primary stat

[hazy breach]

I mean its the same

It wasnt a while back because 2x didnt work in sims

[vale pine]

if its the same, also good. 2x agi did not show up as a gain when i re-run the sim 2 days ago

[jovial inlet]

Hello, I am wondering the sequence for which you do a pull with an on use trinket such as puzzle box,

Pull timer goes out, you puzzle box, battle pot, shadow dance, shadow blades, shadow technique go into rotational abilities? Or am I messing the first part up?

[azure thicket]

tricky part is sim doesn't have r1 enchants available from the sim i did an hour ago?

so you are kinda eyeballing it unless im doing it wrong

but it's 10 primary stat between the two ranks so

[upper narwhal]

It can die

[modest summit]

sorry if this has already been addressed, but with the dance + secteq macro, if you have ancient arts up, is it supposed to not give you a refund? seems like it just gets rid of the ancient art proc?

[hazy lichen]

just won this is a worth equiping even if its veteran

[upper narwhal]

yes

[vale pine]

congrats, how many tries?

[hazy breach]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[upper narwhal]

like 5ish

7 actually

[modest summit]

ty!

[azure thicket]

what ilevel were you at?

[upper narwhal]

255

[vale pine]

7 is fairly fast, nice

[azure thicket]

i tried it without mh enchant yesterday and adds were living too long to be good time sink

[upper narwhal]

i just had to use dance on low hp to juggle the boss basically

focus on living rather than optimal dps

can't tricks valeera or she dies

[azure thicket]

what uhh curios did you give valeera?

[upper narwhal]

the hand grenade and the one that gives more damage and healing after a bit

[winter current]

Did you run death stalker for pure st or trickster for the adds?

[upper narwhal]

trickster st talents

i delayed pushing the boss to 75/50/25 until my cds were back

[winter current]

Yeah, that's what I was going to do as well. Full burst the adds when they come up

[upper narwhal]

and sent cds on the adds cuz add+boss seemed scary

[winter current]

It's not fun lol

[upper narwhal]

i enjoyed it

[winter current]

Oh, the add + boss I mean

[upper narwhal]

oh ye

[winter current]

What're you running stat wise?

[woeful rain]

Is Vessel trinket simbait, sims extremly high for me

[chilly kite]

yes, the sim assumes you get all the souls which are damn near imposible to see in raid

[left ledge]

of course

trickster you've got your coups, you enter dance high cp and get that sectec going

with DS you've got your pain, you suffer

[edgy star]

Has much changed on the builds since the black powder nerfs?

[patent iris]

I am completely blind to souls tbh - bring back my antenna :(

[amber oak]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[copper fox]

Any high raid parsers able to answer some ?'s about resource preparation before burst windows? Based on my logs I think im spamming too many builders and being pretty starved

[prime beacon]

this may sound dumb, but is it possible to still eviscerate etc. with broken weapons?

[west bluff]

how's your haste?

[copper fox]

656 ~18.5%

[rapid forum]

Em u forgot pick pocket and swirly ball mister

[short radish]

Pick pocket doesn't do anything. What's swirlyball?

[winter current]

Oh dang yeah nice dog

[ancient wyvern]

Best rogue spell

[west bluff]

i Dance/ST as soon as i hit 30 and i dont feel starved during dance. But yeah sometimes 5-6 seconds before ST comes off cooldown I start to save cp and/or energy instead of another evis

[short radish]

Pick lock was used in that one dungeon in bfa

[west bluff]

also vanish when i'm really starved

[bleak night]

ok but you can disarm the tripwires in nexus point

you can also just jump over them but

ignore that part

[chilly kite]

how do we cast detect traps now anyway? its not in our spellbook anymore

i just wanna spam swirly ball

[short radish]

Oh detection

Its a glyph

[obtuse orbit]

I feel like im doing something wrong here. After the second blades usually I fall into some sort of desync where im sitting on all CDs for like an extra 10 seconds so I can fit both dances into blade window.

[prime beacon]

So I'm comapring my logs on Varasius against some of the top parses with the same level gear, and their average eviscerates are nearly 2x mine, but my shadow dance uptime and Eviscerates in and out of SD are rougly the same. What could possibly be causing some a disparity in the damage done at same gear levels? Weapon enchants perhaps? I'm averaging 41.5k, and the parse im looking at is averging 72k

[copper fox]

Thank you!

[chilly kite]

do you need to be an inscriptionist? i don't see any on ah

[short radish]

Should be on ah

[winter current]

If I recall shadow dance has a 20s CD and secret technique has an 18s CD. I usually try to pop my second shadow dance around when shadow technique has 8s left on CD and by the time ST is back up, so is my SD and it ends up allowing with blades, but I have like 19% haste atm

During burst I can pop my second SD during burst and by the next time SD is up so is ST

[obtuse orbit]

yea im at 20 and 19. only 16% haste atm

[chilly kite]

negative ghost rider

[winter current]

I'm not sure how much a difference in 2% haste is. That's just how I noticed I can maintain SD, ST and Blades

[obtuse orbit]

I gotta watch my vod again cuz im honestly so confused. im pretty much doing the same thing.

[short radish]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Dirty_Tricks,_Vol_1:_Detection

Nvm they changed it

[chilly kite]

ty

[bleak night]

np

[short radish]

what bel said

[winter current]

You might have a extra second or two due to having 16% haste. Do you use thallasian phoenix oils? Might help increase your haste.

[languid knot]

I have the same question, is it only about fitting in more evis in dance and blades?

[obtuse orbit]

sadly yea lol thats WITH the oils. ive only got crit mast gear to drop. hoping to get some champ gear swaps through 0s and see how that goes

[astral axle]

controversial statement i know: i quite like sub rogue

[bleak night]

fuck you

[astral axle]

[obtuse orbit]

ok I found it.... its during my second blades . Dance and sectec finish CD and 10 seconds till blades. I wait for blades to come off before casting anything then pop all 3 abilities. about 1-2 seconds wait between first and second dance during blades but when blades is over im 2 seconds left till sectec and 10-12 seconds out on next dance to realign them.... sorry if that sounded confusing just trying to figure out where im going wrong.

[obsidian surge]

This version of sub is the best. Change my mind.

[prime beacon]

I'm enjoying this version of sub. It feels straightforward

but i SUCK at it apparently

[formal pollen]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[polar schooner]

have sub rogues been killing Nulleaus?? easily?

[alpine wraith]

not easily but doable

[polar schooner]

better play the dev build?

or m+?

[hazy lichen]

is this macro okay to use

the trink is guidon

[obtuse orbit]

pretty sure you dont macro haste trinkets

think there is a ! on it somewhere

[hazy lichen]

wdym

[obtuse orbit]

like !aa

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization:

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have Darkest Night up OR A supercharged combo point? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).

[agile ingot]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[patent iris]

Cause of Deeper Stratagem has a tiny delay

[obtuse orbit]

oh my bad I thought you ment what was a ! lol im stupid

[hazy lichen]

im confused lol

so dont use that macro?

[obtuse orbit]

just take out the trinket

[patent iris]

No you can use the macro but without the haste trinket in it

[obtuse orbit]

and cast it seperate

[hazy lichen]

ok

how does it effect deeper strata

[bleak night]

if you use the haste trinket at the same time as dance, it wont update your new haste in time

so you have to use it slightly before

[hazy lichen]

k

[potent heath]

The first level ?

Or second

[hazy lichen]

So use the SB trink then the SD ST macro after?

[bleak night]

ye

[hazy lichen]

k ty

[winter current]

I think it might just be that you need that extra 2% haste

[obtuse orbit]

honestly that would make me feel better than thikning im just fucking shit up hahaha

[void fjord]

maybe dumb question, does the around 700ish haste BP, mean like raw on char no buffs? My sims are not showing what i figured they would

[polar schooner]

second "??"

[prime beacon]

how can I find out how much finisher damage % I get from each point of mastery?

[potent heath]

Same strat, but u need gearing to tank a Little bit

[polar schooner]

im 250 ilvl, i think i should be good yeah?

2pc

[rapid forum]

Sorry im just trolling

Role playing my inner rogue

To compensate for Blizz letting us die out

[alpine wraith]

raw haste

[rugged condor]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[void fjord]

okay thats what i figured lol, just wanted to double check. either im running fucked up sims or idk; Cuz these sims (using pinned Trickster ST) has me at 474 crit, 527 haste, and 544 mast.

[potent heath]

Playable u need to be pixel with the aggro

And Valeera at healer

Dont trick her

Just share damage

[ripe flame]

I tricked her for the add phases and manually removed the buff after every phase since they were cooking me but idk if it was just me sucking ass, my 2 cents

[prime beacon]

where on warcraftlogs can I find my Find Weakness uptime? It doesn't seem to appear in lsit of debuffs on enemies

[hazy breach]

Its a buff on you, not a debuff

But also the uptime is 99%+, so not really that relevant

[astral axle]

hi eleem

[lilac stag]

@alpine wraith what the play with these?

[alpine wraith]

you can craft 2 things

between wrist/rings/belt/boots

[lilac stag]

the regular crafts or only the pvp crafts?

[alpine wraith]

pvp crafts

but they are champion ilvl

[limpid sage]

Engi items you can focus entirely on haste or mastery though

[alpine wraith]

yea

[limpid sage]

Pretty nice for forcing haste checkpoints

[alpine wraith]

but engi items cant have normal embellish just in case

[lilac stag]

hmm so maybe belt (reg) and engineering wrists

[alpine wraith]

ideally you craft wrist and belt

because you can socket them

with the pvp item

[stuck arrow]

How confident are we that we're getting big buffs? 💤

[lilac stag]

i still have spark as well

[limpid sage]

What’s your haste currently?

[alpine wraith]

it is unlikely we get buffs if it is like other expansions

[limpid sage]

And weakest slot?

[lilac stag]

can i put embelish on pvp belt?

[alpine wraith]

assa might get 3 or 4 tho

yea if it is the leatherworking one yea

[lilac stag]

shit i have to buy the engineering plan

lol

[alpine wraith]

engi is only wrist/helmet and boots no belt

but also yea it is a diff recipe

[lilac stag]

yeah but I dont have the pvp plans

[sleek socket]

the highest ilvl of Farstrider's Mercy is 259 right?

[alpine wraith]

with no crests yes

[lilac stag]

without crests yes

[sleek socket]

i can crest it?

its has no lvl 1/6

[alpine wraith]

do it next week

so you can craft it with mythic crests

or recraft if already crafted the base vers

many of us crafted the base version last week

[lilac stag]

i think pure haste bracers maybe the play

[sleek socket]

i did too

if i crafted it already im fked?

or the recraft is doable

i mean the mats is gone ?

so i need to use another 2

[hazy breach]

You can recraft to improve the ilvl of the item you have crafted

But you cannot extract the sparks and craft another item

[sleek socket]

what it cost

[hazy breach]

Less mats than the first craft

[cursive bluff]

Is gloomblade > evis our main loop?

[sleek socket]

without the purple gated mats?

[stuck arrow]

Dont use gloomblade.

[fallow glade]

yes the sparks stay in the item forever, you don't need new ones to recraft

[sleek socket]

kk ty and how next wekk give us the options to crest it?

[fallow glade]

because m+ unlocks and we can start earning mythic crests

[cursive bluff]

I’m more so curious outside of using CDs

[prime beacon]

when i use a finisher with 2 supercharger combo points, since each is worth 3, am I casting a 13 point finisher?

[shrewd lantern]

you dont talent gloomblade

it sucks

[sleek socket]

so when i recraft it next week i will see on the item 1/6 lvl?

[hazy breach]

No, you only consume one per finisher. So its 10 (assuming you used a 7cp finisher)

[shrewd lantern]

or you can just make a backstab macro and use the gloomblade icon

[stuck arrow]

Outside of CDs you chill till CDs are up while making sure to not overcap on energy and prep for next dance. Check the FAQ / guides.

[shrewd lantern]

and pretend you are playing it

[cursive bluff]

Ok, thanks! I’m thinking of playing rogue as a alt, and trying sub so I figured I get a few pointers

[stuck arrow]

Biggest thing is using secret technique and dance together, and maximizing gcds in dance.

Use shadow blades with dance+SecTec.

[prime beacon]

ok so the tier set 2pc would be a 15% damage bonus on finishers?

[lilac stag]

All the good stuff: #subtlety-faq

[stuck arrow]

That's like 75% the Cole's notes. A bunch of minor things you can optimize, but if you get that gameplay loop down your on your way.

[hazy breach]

On those finishers ye

[prime beacon]

im trying to track about a 50% finisher gap between me and the top parsers. 15% from the 2pc, and another 5% from a mastery gap I appear to have, but I can't find the next 30%

[left ledge]

check crits

also check when you're finishing, at what CP, are you getting the same amount of finishers in and out of dance as they are

i would really not look at parses right now

gear is all over the place

[hazy breach]

Not to mention they probably have higher ilvl than you

[left ledge]

there are people with heroic daggers doing worse than people with world quest daggers

[willow pawn]

Oh are we crafting anything besides dagger?

[hazy breach]

Which is just a massive chunk of extra damage

[willow pawn]

Crafted dagger week one wonder if we can craft belt or boots this week

[left ledge]

its best to just look at the faq, get the rotation down, get used to the timings for the spec

you can look at logs in maybe 2 weeks

rn its just "who got drops"

[left ledge]

i just crafted belt

[frosty axle]

on heroic dragons, can you cleave off bosses, or you need to bp on adds

feels awful swapping them

[left ledge]

you dont "need" to do anything but hit the dragons on that boss really

[hazy breach]

We have almost nothing that cleaves

[left ledge]

the adds blow up

but you can press bp

[lilac stag]

we are cleaveless

[frosty axle]

like does bp hit them

if we target boss

[hazy breach]

Yeah

[left ledge]

yes

[lilac stag]

need proof? do the ?? first set of adds LOL

[left ledge]

bp is an aoe around you

[hazy breach]

BP does aoe around you

[left ledge]

you dont need to target anything for bp to work

[crystal bone]

so bp can reach both dragons? that's neat

[left ledge]

its just 10 yards around you

[frosty axle]

ty

[left ledge]

if you jump i think it increases the range

but idk by how much

thats a pvp tactic

[hazy breach]

I dont think it does anymore, thats some classic shit iirc

[left ledge]

at least it does that with frost nova

o

gg

[frosty axle]

on phase 3 i swapped to bp anyways since both in range

[left ledge]

yeah if you have potent powder you can bp on 2 targets

but really our cleave is utter dogshit

you will suffer on paladins

[frosty axle]

i did

might have to just play outlaw

that fight

[left ledge]

id rather get benched

[hazy breach]

Outlaw isnt good either

Nor is assa

[left ledge]

im hoping thats what happens

yeah rogue is just kinda ass on that fight

[crystal bone]

rogue benched in race for that fight for sure

[strange chasm]

Im convinced rogue is getting some pretty big buffs today

for tuesday

[spiral needle]

3% for sin, nothing for everyone else

the classic rogue hotfix

[frosty axle]

surely

[lilac stag]

Excuse me. Assa will get 2 bug fixes and a 5% aura buff

sub will get BP nerfed another 12% and backstab will get buffed 5%

outlaw gives you a free level boost to another class

[spare crypt]

we take those

[crystal bone]

boosting another class sounding pretty neat right about now

[spiral needle]

gloomblade will finally (not) rise

[sullen hare]

5% backstab nerf, 5% bp buff, cut to the chase removed #friction

[lilac stag]

the cope was hard for outlaw this past month.

[spiral needle]

outlaw simming mid pack means the spec doomed at the start in raid

[hollow trench]

I don’t mind sub rn

[spiral needle]

it only falls off harder when mechs are involved

[hollow trench]

I can browse Reddit while doing my rotation on the other monitor

[lilac stag]

Oddly enough, we’re all arms warriors with a little spice. Haha

[hollow trench]

Someone has to be bottom might as well be me

[spiral needle]

sub least hard working bottom 3rd rogue spec

[final charm]

got a question this reputation trinket realy that good? i got box from algethar korluk and feather from spire still this sims better

[sullen hare]

half of raid specs and all of rogue specs worse than aug

[balmy gate]

Are we gettin more Changes ? Our guild want No rogue in RAID its Not worth they Said for mythic

[sullen hare]

expect no rogue buffs lazyleaf

[spiral needle]

your guild is high as fuck

cause you'd still use 1 atrophic

[blazing berry]

Most take 1

[lilac stag]

At this point, not sure it’s worth it. lol

[hollow trench]

They haven’t done alleria then

[lilac stag]

3.6% “sometimes”

[hollow trench]

You def want atrophic on that fight

[spiral needle]

also I feel like a mythic guild should know blizzard already promised 2-3 more weeks of tuning...

[hollow trench]

And if you’re bringing a rogue to last boss you want it to be geared

So they are dumb

[sullen hare]

mythic guilds know better than to trust blizzard

[alpine wraith]

im sorry to say but the dmg intake is not that high

[spiral needle]

pretty sure this is the 1st season where blizzard outright stated "we're doing x weeks of tuning"

[alpine wraith]

so uh

[lilac stag]

This is the big one. Next week should be minor to nothing since RWF is going on

[hazy breach]

Well yeah they didnt tune stuff on the beta before release this time around

[alpine wraith]

i still have hope we get some buffs

[lilac stag]

we’re gonna get DS buffed and not fixed.

[spare crypt]

saving big changes for the last tuning pass would be demonic

[alpine wraith]

but also uhh

[spare crypt]

after everyone has sent crests and sparks for mythic prog

[alpine wraith]

also yea if they keep buffing DS it will be sad

[spiral needle]

just a little too soon too doom imo

but at the same time I doubt we'll get buffed past mid pack

[alpine wraith]

we have been through worse

[hollow spear]

You don't know us

[lilac stag]

for most of us in here it won’t matter

[hollow spear]

We are pretty good at predooming

[hazy breach]

Thats why they reverted the uhdk nerfs btw

[spiral needle]

outlaw is going to need god though

[lilac stag]

And by most I mean 20 of us

[hazy breach]

And why it was so silly to launch the game without doing any balance

[alpine wraith]

in highmaul we were around 40 to 50% worse than big bois

[balmy gate]

Yeah i dont think they buff us but a bit Hope is there

[alpine wraith]

and in bfa it was like 2 years and a half of being cucked

now we are not even 30% behind the warlocks

hey

[hazy breach]

Theyll buff atleast one rogue spec, but almost surely not enough to make it the best spec in the game

[lilac stag]

This is all Charrends fault, and m0

[alpine wraith]

i still find funny they nerfed the aoe that much

and buffed st by 6%

[hazy breach]

Blizzards tuning generally aims to not disrupt whats best and whats worst, just minimize the difference between the two

[spiral needle]

i mainly wonder if sub will get more ST buffs so soon before having tier stats are in

[alpine wraith]

unless they decide'd

they'd rather you don't play demo

[lilac stag]

idk fix our fking cleave

[alpine wraith]

casual 73% nerf

[spiral needle]

sorry, only ranged DPS are allowed to have 80% extra per cleave target

[hazy breach]

Which is why fotm rerolling is so popular, as you can be fairly confident if your spec seems to be the best it will remain strong

[spiral needle]

be silent and make boss do 3.6% less damage

[alpine wraith]

i mean it is easy as ever to gear alts

[hazy breach]

(or the opposite, maybe they do that because of fotm rerollers, hard to tell)

[alpine wraith]

even random people now are getting used to just rerolling

[spiral needle]

pre-raid gearing was super breezy

love extra rolls from prey

[alpine wraith]

yea and now you have like ven on alts 6 keys

[mint folio]

Caster supremacy tier

[alpine wraith]

+hard and nightmare prey

and pvp

[spiral needle]

the catalyst change being account wide is super nice too

[spare crypt]

not as simple if youre gonna prog mythic and guild has already sunk gear into your char

[alpine wraith]

they fixed that

well if you are in a guild that is doing that you are already doing splits

[lilac stag]

there’s a reason we typically only do 1 tier piece each

[alpine wraith]

otherwise it would not matter much anyway

like even my guild i got 2 set and 4 set with cata

[lilac stag]

we don’t get fucked by people leaving or rerolling

[alpine wraith]

even if we know rogue is dog

at least it wont be the doggest

meanwhile my friend has 2 warrs 2 rogues 1 dh 1 monk geared and doing splits

[spare crypt]

effectively griefing if no rogue changes

[delicate wedge]

what do you mean, there is nothing worst, every other class can reroll to a better spec

[spare crypt]

and stay with the weapon they sent a spark into

[alpine wraith]

that might be true actually but at least we have the heart of the cards

[spiral needle]

i think it'd be criminal, but also very funny, if UDK got buffed back up while rogue barely touched

[alpine wraith]

it was already hotfixed up

[balmy gate]

WE perform to well in PvP xD

[alpine wraith]

true sub is good in pvp

[spiral needle]

Ahh didn't know it was a hotfix

[spare crypt]

uhdk hc parses number 18k, rogue all 3 specs combined 13k

class representation is a thing

[hollow spear]

That's a) because uhdk performed well the previous seasons and b) meta andies saw the prepatch data and prepped a dk and c) rogue is just not very popular in general

Even if rogue is very strong it doesn't get anywhere close to the numbers other classes pull when they're strong

[lapis zenith]

When I sim dungeon slice, I see that it prefers my OH weapon enchant to be Acuity of the Ren'dorei instead of Arcane Mastery. Should I actually do this for M+ or should I just use Arcane Mastery as most guides recommend?

[dense mountain]

@alpine wraith yo hacha idk if you know, but i have the feather trinket that gives haste on use, im sure im gonna get rid of it soon here, but do you know if i can macro this to Blades? i seem to remember seeing someone say that there is a delay and before that haste value is calculated by our passives so i would have to use it early or something.

[lilac stag]

It’s likely a gear / ilvl thing. They should be decently close

[lilac stag]

After messing with the snapshotting. I prefer to use trinket separate then an all in one macro to not lose time on sblades.

your mileage may vary

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

Bottom question

[dense mountain]

yeah thats kind of what i thought, i think i just realized it yesterday when i didnt get sectec in my cds outside of lust

[sly swallow]

I've also been doing that, I feel like it works pretty nicely that way.

[dense mountain]

but my trinket should put me way over the haste req

[dense mountain]

ooo thank you

[lilac stag]

you’re holding dance in blades for Sectech to come back up. Double check your actual haste and not just the percent

it’s pretty tight right now without 4 pc

[dense mountain]

ooo really we hold the 2nd dance for sectec cd? (assuming we have 4set)

[nova dew]

hi guys at what count do i start popping BP

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

[lilac stag]

You’re using it, but not back to back dances

[dense mountain]

right, so not like last season, we have a gap in our dances until sectec comes back up?

[lilac stag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1484435734621323315/2026-03-19_22-45-52_-_Bingusguppy_-_Crown_of_the_Cosmos_HC_Kill_-_Clipped_at_2026-03-20_02-16-28.mp4?ex=69be3802&is=69bce682&hm=ab39a05bd8cb62bb61bdc34bd9a078256fecf9171044e112d2fbb10646e67e26&

Bingus ftw

[nova dew]

what about count for using S Storm over BS

[untold fern]

Is it best to craft the belt or wrists after you craft your weapon?

[swift tinsel]

@keen dome just 3 more bountiful delves to go!

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[keen dome]

Huuuuge

I believe in you

[swift tinsel]

its going surprisingly easily

[keen dome]

I wish I'd leveled my alts, haha

But, laziness won out.

[swift tinsel]

was indecisiveness for me

[keen dome]

Something I'll never have because I will always rogue.

[nova dew]

didnt see any mention of sstorm count in there which is why im asking

[lilac stag]

what did you do?

[hazy breach]

[swift tinsel]

I wasn't sure what I wanted to play as an alt so I made a few options

[swift tinsel]

nothin special, just degened a handful of bountiful delves across my alts lol

[swift tinsel]

the worst part honestly was just getting the keys since delves you can blast through

[nova dew]

oh im blind nvm xD

[lilac stag]

How many?

[swift tinsel]

ummm I did a few non-chest-opener 8's on the rogue, and then I think I did 4-5 on the dk, 6 on the dh, and now I'm working through the monk's and then druid if I need to

but its 430 per 8 if you open the bountiful chest

300 if you open the hero cache

plus 1.5k from the weekly

[lilac stag]

The non is what 200?

[swift tinsel]

non-opener is 230

80 from the nemesis chest plus 150 from the regular

[lilac stag]

I have my prey map thing for next week

[swift tinsel]

so all told it didn't feel like I was having to be too sweaty

plus I genuinely enjoy delves so its been kinda fun

[lilac stag]

but I think I’ll be pvp sweaty this week

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm actively avoiding that lol

[lilac stag]

I can still run the non chest ones I suppose

[swift tinsel]

at like 250ish ilvl you can cruise pretty easily through them

as tank with dps valeera she just destroys everything

will 20-0% some of the big invader mobs

[grim pawn]

what is the correct way to use puzzle box specifically on the opener

[hazy breach]

Right before blades

[grim pawn]

so shadowstrike>box>dance,blades,sectec ?

[hazy breach]

yes

[grim pawn]

awesome thank you

[pure yacht]

Anyone know the proc rate of Gaze vs Vessel?

Both are mastery stats with agility buffs. Vessel gives way more agility but you gotta go find them, Single target sims think vessel is WAY better but I assume that's cause the sim picks them all up

[tulip light]

vessel is impossible to collect in raid / m+

big bait

[swift tinsel]

realistically you're probs getting like..2/3 value out of vessel in practice

+/- a little bit

think my average stacks on tuesday was like 2.something

as opposed to 4.5ish

but value goes up when fight knowledge goes up

[warm marlin]

I went 6-1 in bg blitz and it put me at exactly 1599

[swift tinsel]

gross

[warm marlin]

and then lost 5 games in a row and won and it put me back at 1592

[swift tinsel]

grosser

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-gif-4499391872221798131

[hollow spear]

Pve andy

Gotta ask trickz for a boost

[faint hemlock]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[astral axle]

More like... Bingus.....yucky...

[ivory swallow]

Hey what addon you use to see others ilvl?

[warm marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/penepixula-gif-21050526

[ivory swallow]

Previously details used to show ilvls now it doesnt anymore

[swift tinsel]

I think SimpleItemlevel will show it if you inspect people

[lilac stag]

1-5 this morning. It’s been rough. Hahah

[keen dome]

hell yeah bingus

[lunar bluff]

ive seen bingusgippy in aldrakken before

or i mean

tww zone

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

dornogal

didnt know bingusguppy was rylld

@warm marlin bingusgiuppy

[bleak night]

i love a good bingus spotting

[torn tide]

lol yikes im bottom on dps in normal raids last boss

just 1 above the tank

seems like ilvl 254 aint enough to save me

[hollow wigeon]

What are we crafting 2nd with our sprarks

[mint bobcat]

Probably wait until next week and fill out any slots you are missing hero/myth pieces in. Ideally a low value spot like belt or cloak.

[modest snow]

why does DS send cds on empty combat points and trickster on full

[tepid trellis]

strike goes brrrt

[mint bobcat]

You want to shadowstrike as soon as possible as DS

so you go in with 0 CP to avoid just wasting them

[modest snow]

just to get as much value for all the big stuff I guess

I see

ty!

[remote rapids]

just putting the Light Temple trinket in a dance macro before dance is that enough time or prolly not? need to manually use trinket, then dance macro?

[hazy breach]

#subtlety-faq message

Last one

[remote rapids]

thanks

[brazen stone]

is it bad if i have legit 1% vers

[keen dome]

Probably not

As long as your iLevel keeps going up

[brazen stone]

(im wearing mastery flask and oils)

[mint bobcat]

TBF the FAQ explains you go in with 0 combo points but doesn't give the reasoning behind it

[velvet nova]

is the shadow dance stance # different from the subterfuge stance #?

[warm marlin]

wtf yes you did

#outlaw message

[wraith dawn]

Just started playing sub this xpac, but wow head guide and most guides say trickester better for all content, but FAQ says deathstalker for raid, which is accurate?

[warm marlin]

awang you're actually probably the first person in here to know that's my character name

[bleak night]

[keen dome]

DS is good for very specific fights and Trickster is better in most other circumstances

And I don't think DS is that far ahead

[wraith dawn]

Gotcha, I’ve gotten trickster down pretty well, but I haven’t even looked at DS to really know what changes

[keen dome]

Unless you are really hurting for damage I imagine you can simply play Trickster on everything.

[left ledge]

POP QUIZ

name the fights

[keen dome]

Voraius and Saladbar

[left ledge]

[grim vessel]

Guess i gotta sim the difference

[celest spruce]

out of dance, 2 target cleave, whats the generator to use? is it storm?

[grim vessel]

After years of not being able to target swap on ele I hate how deathstalker plays

[mint bobcat]

Just stick with trickster, too many ways to cuck yourself as DS with the mark

[keen dome]

Although I dunno, I feel like Voraius is pretty good for Trickster too if people aren't killing the adds super quickly.

Saladbar def though

[left ledge]

honestly i dont think DS excels at any fight

even saladbar

[hazy breach]

Neither does trickster

[left ledge]

i mean comparatively

[mint bobcat]

The potential to lose your mark when bosses phase, I'm good lol

[left ledge]

[keen dome]

Yeah but it's funny to break his big blue balls with a darkest night

[left ledge]

i think DS does one thing

"we need more boss damage"

ok

i will go DS

[keen dome]

Yeah

The orbs on heroic have fuck all HP anyway

[left ledge]

but thats only if your other damage is completely worthless

[warm marlin]

we're gonna scale

i can feel it

[grim vessel]

"Can you hit that ball?" "Fuck no"

[keen dome]

downward?

[left ledge]

i will be topping meters when i have my gear

thx u

[keen dome]

same

[warm marlin]

i was only 8k below top dps in alleria p3 yesterday

[left ledge]

our drops were fucking abysmal this week though

[warm marlin]

and since then I gained TEN ilvl and 2p->4p

[left ledge]

i only have one tier piece

[keen dome]

Huge

[left ledge]

[grim vessel]

Dh on the bottom of our guilds meter "im gonna top all of you once I get gear"

[keen dome]

I forget what I was on normal Alleria but I was like 20k below top dps on Chimarius

[left ledge]

no dagger drops either

[keen dome]

It was sad

[shut hatch]

0 here. Worst week of loot Ive seen in 10 years or something

[left ledge]

ya we did splits too

fucking awful

[keen dome]

Loot is a myth, boss kills are the real deal

[left ledge]

we only have 2 people with 2p

[wraith dawn]

How big is our set piece? I currently only have one piece but assuming there’s tier in my vault I’ll have four piece Tuesday.

[left ledge]

2

[mint bobcat]

I no lifed it and I'm 254.44

[left ledge]

a healer and a dk

because all that drops is fucking plate

[upper narwhal]

tier from lfr was such a goated roll, 2p from normal 4p on reset easy

[fiery junco]

0 leather tier dropped across normal and heroic for us. Cleared up to cosmos

[upper narwhal]

or if i wasnt lazy and did pvp 4p now

[weary tree]

hm i got 2 dagger drops and 3 tier pieces plus a hc cata piece

[left ledge]

good for you

hope you never see the mythic trinket

[weary tree]

🙁

[wraith dawn]

Like do we know % increase on dps with 0-2-4 pc?

[left ledge]

4p is around 14%

[warm marlin]

14%

[left ledge]

idk what 2p is

[wraith dawn]

Oh that’s pretty big

[left ledge]

like 6 or....

[warm marlin]

it's either 5/9 or 9/5

think 2p is better?

[left ledge]

idk

2p is pretty good though yeah

[warm marlin]

think ill be 262 when i finish my crest grind later today

funneled

[keen dome]

Nice