subtlety

[hollow spear]

Needs to be more complicated than only lust

[lilac stag]

take the complicated gameplay over to outlaw. We just 2 button here as ninjas.

[tribal blade]

damn that's sad to hear

[violet timber]

why are most guides recommening to not use sparks yet? Did we get a hint, that crafted weapons are getting nerfed?

[tepid trellis]

well its 0.2% to do it during lust

[tribal blade]

i wonder if it's worth doing still with just coup

[tribal blade]

because for other classes it's not as concrete a first craft as sub with dagger

[violet timber]

ah so we still go dagger

[tribal blade]

most likely yes

[willow knoll]

going dual mallets

[vale pine]

moment, ill run some sims atm

[violet timber]

cool thanks ❤️

[keen dome]

Shadowbonk

[tribal blade]

i'm wary about saying 100% guaranteed because who knows

they could do some crazy tuning

and some other embel becomes super OP

[vale pine]

the line was low impact, and was not worth it anymore

i just put the latest apl change on the sheet

[keen dome]

They might buff the innate ones but I doubt they'd make it OP. I imagine it'll be like TWW where they just go "eh"

[vale pine]

there is another 0.2% gain

to add the line back

but only during blades

[tribal blade]

i agree yeah it's really unlikely it happens

[vale pine]

which, give me a sec

ill update

[keen dome]

also I'd bet 5 gold if they buffed one of them to be super op they'd nerf it within the week

[willow knoll]

fishhook sounds alot cooler

as a dagger name

[tribal blade]

lol true

[supple pawn]

Wait, why do we not want Darkest Night to spend Ancient Arts

[hollow spear]

We don't want darkest night

[tepid trellis]

doesent work on it

[supple pawn]

Ohh, gotcha

So it just wastes the proc

[vale pine]

done

[lilac stag]

Clearly outlaw tier now

[analog hearth]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[supple pawn]

Damn

[keen dome]

Outlaw tier! outlaw tier!

[supple pawn]

Its over

[wanton adder]

Hi guys quick question:
Is it recommended for our opener(Single target) to use eviscerate to get slice and dice before we enter our burst window?
I saw a couple of people doing it, I am just not sure if its's worth it.
I presume the whole purpose of getting the buff is to get more combo points

[tepid trellis]

you can also skip it, its about neutral

just more up to preference

[wanton adder]

thanks for the information 🙂

[lilac stag]

snd 2 seconds later not going to matter. Getting blades up 2 seconds earlier may in a fight.

not worth overthinking

[steep raven]

Why this sim sometimes doesn't use 2x evis with AA up? (sim from fuu spreadsheet)
Or am I missing something here?

[tepid trellis]

#subtlety message

scroll up a tiny bit

[vale pine]

basically, we added bugfixes to simc and ingame bugs got fixed

so apex optimizations are now mainly worth it on deathstalker

on trickster they are almost irrelevant

there is a 0.2% win by doing them during bloodlust

#1065728795455266888 message

^ as highlighted here

[steep raven]

Nono, I'm not talking about SS at full CP to get AA, sim has AA up and doesn't use it(?)

[vale pine]

there might be some more micro optimizations around shadow dance, there are some 0.1 or 0.2% gains from giving the condition more wiggle room

[tulip light]

What got fixed / optimized to find apex not being worth playing around?

[tepid trellis]

during lust it still does the optimization, this is after lust fall off

[steep raven]

Am I misunderstanding the optimization? Do you SS with 5+ stacks to proc AA or you ignore apex and just SS>Evis>SS>Evis no matter what?

[tepid trellis]

you do the optimization during lust

out of lust you ignore it

[vale pine]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[vale pine]

just only during lust

[lilac stag]

Time to update that with a warning (and the overall gain)

[tulip light]

@short radish that’s what I meant earlier regarding AA optimization 👌

[south kernel]

i dont think anything changed or anything was hotfixed right? was it just a case of sims and bouncing stuff around is why we dont do that optimzation anymore?

[vale pine]

this might be something to look into too

there is probably a very small minor optimization for the dance handling during blades, especially during bloodlust

[true citrus]

you guys getting Farstrider's Mercy? off the rip

[keen dome]

dagger goes brr

[lilac stag]

some of us did to 259 yes

some holding for embellishment tuning

[south zenith]

Cant you just recraft if you wanna switch embellishment?

[vale pine]

you can

removing embellishments is possible when recrafting

[south zenith]

Sending 259 when I get home then

[vale pine]

the first craft is likely a dagger, so the risk is low on the craft

[odd jacinth]

do we get 2 sparks weekly?

[vale pine]

but you can also wait for crafting, given that tuning on 17th could change whats good

[keen dome]

One a week. The one-time World Tour quest gave a bonus one, though.

[vale pine]

it is just like in tww

only change is that they removed half sparks

and half spark is now a full one

[keen dome]

Identical system, just one item got renamed

Like Fuu said

[vale pine]

this means a item craft is now 2 sparks instead of 1

but 1 spark is what before whas 1/2

https://giphy.com/gifs/james-franco-same-but-different-C6JQPEUsZUyVq

[keen dome]

Effectively we use the half sparks to craft with now and the only step removed is combing them into a full one.

[odd jacinth]

ah k makes sense so after first craft essentially a craft every 2 weeks then yeah?

[marble sail]

Does fuu stand for fck u unc?

[keen dome]

Much the same way we still use x amount of crests to craft, but we don't enchant them they just use the raw amount now.

[odd jacinth]

nah man hes callin you a fuu

[vale pine]

lol

[odd jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/bloodinbloodout-onda-magic-vatos-locos-gif-19254475

[marble sail]

I think im right

https://tenor.com/view/criminal-puppy-dog-hood-sneaky-gif-4402280083731926360

[calm cloud]

Foo bar

[vestal escarp]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[tribal blade]

lol i love this gif so much

10/10 use

[vale pine]

if you missed it

we are back to using the apex

XD

[limpid sage]

in what way

[tribal blade]

LOL oh is it during lust

that optimization

[limpid sage]

how it was intended to be played or the cheese?

ah I see in tc-subtlety

that's so cooked

[vale pine]

getting the jucy 0.2% dps

[limpid sage]

with 0.2% is it even worth the mental load though?

[fleet wharf]

Wait, so out of lust, we're just back to building and using CPs as we get them?

yea, my line is at like .5% ish

[limpid sage]

ye and in lust you're optimizing for 0.2% dps

[tribal blade]

it honestly makes it so during lust you can kinda just spam strike without thinking in a way

because you can guaranteed double strike and proc apex

[limpid sage]

true you can just press the 2 at random lol

nearly random anyway

before you had builder->spender->builder->builder->spender every now and then

now you can just always alternate them ig

[tribal blade]

not sure if every double strike will guaranteed proc apex during lust, but i bet it does

[fleet wharf]

I feel we are so close to being able to one button macro that plays this spec for us

[limpid sage]

castsequence shadowstrike, eviscerate in lust

[tribal blade]

i'm nelf and i'm sitting at 21% haste and i can proc the apex almost every time in dances

[lilac stag]

aren’t you special

[limpid sage]

btw @vale pine I checked the quick sim breakdown the other day and it seems shadowmeld is used as the first spell from stealth in the sims. Donno if that is fixed or was just weird behavior from that day?

[lilac stag]

How do you proc apex in dance as assa?

[vale pine]

give me a moment, i can check the shadowmelt use

[tribal blade]

i just mindlessly mut>mut>envenom 😉

[limpid sage]

ya I think it just uses it at the start because there's no stealth check

[tribal blade]

WOAH GOT 5 CP FROM 1 MUT now it's mut>envenom

[alpine wraith]

so basically now we just apexxmax in bl

apart from that it is neutral

[limpid sage]

maybe it didn't need the check before?

[alpine wraith]

but the only build on 60 energy seems interesting

[tribal blade]

what's the logic behind that?

[alpine wraith]

guess to avoid some krangle on dance

[tribal blade]

ahh interesting

[upper narwhal]

only building on 60 means you stack shadow techniques in the downtime and always have energy to go into dance?

[alpine wraith]

more or less

[limpid sage]

while talking about shadowmeld, I'd imagine it could be optimized to only being used outside dance/stealth and with +5 sht stacks to guarantee an AA proc on a shadowstrike?

[vale pine]

question is, if its a damage diffrence

and, it is

[limpid sage]

nelf bis poggernings

[vale pine]

close

^^

[limpid sage]

ignoring this

[lilac stag]

nelf jumping time

[tribal blade]

i'm staying nelf because i'm sexy

[keen dome]

hell yeah

[lilac stag]

Nelf was original race of my rogue.

[tribal blade]

it was a truly dark time rerolling dwarf for stoneform

[vale pine]

stoneform is still good tho

[tribal blade]

oh yeah it's very very good for this upcoming season for sure

[lilac stag]

🤫

[tribal blade]

but it looks like ASS

[lilac stag]

can do back flip challenge while playing 2 button spec

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[wheat edge]

saw the updated mageweave on the traiding post and had to change some mogs

[tribal blade]

hahahaha

[keen dome]

purple, good

[tribal blade]

somebody is trying to put his waifus in the game

i'm ashamed i know what a waifu is because of my raid team

[wheat edge]

played 300 hours of tbc classic as an ugly orc with no transmog so had to change it up when I got back to retail

[keen dome]

haha

put the orc in the mageweave

[wheat edge]

farming gold for 16 hours per day looking like this, hell nah

[vale pine]

If you find something else that seems off, just let us know. There is always potential of us missing a small detail

[vale pine]

wdym, you are not using the 2 button rotation?

[lilac stag]

mouse wheel rotation soon

@vale pine did you see the m5 widescreen? If I had money and a reason.

[vale pine]

you mean the apple monitor?

its insane to think about

they put 12GB ram and a desktop chip in a monitor

[arctic scroll]

12gb in this economy

[lilac stag]

The m5 max laptop

[vale pine]

oh ye

[lilac stag]

Monitor also insane

[vale pine]

the max lines are basically just glued together chips

think this generation started to 3d stack, but its still very much the same principle

[lilac stag]

ye

[vale pine]

its just very efficient

because what they did was basically:

• Take a arm phone chip
• Scale it up for desktop use
• just double everyhing on the chip and link it together with a high bandwigh connection
  And there is not that much competition to do that

intel/amd focused for a long time on performance over efficiency, and only recently started to think of performance

and the arm competition lacks the software economy

[limpid sage]

ofc

actions.cds+=/shadowmeld,if=energy>=40&!variable.stealth&combo_points.deficit>=7&buff.shadow_techniques.stack>=5

this seemed to be a 0.1-0.2% increase btw

additional increase besides the 0.4% that is

[vale pine]

oh

thats not a bad thought

[limpid sage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/poqYYK3aQuRkVyyZegYdj7

[vale pine]

i see what you did there

[limpid sage]

donno if some pooling logic would make sense to use it on deficit<=2 as well to trigger it on a finisher instead

[vestal escarp]

@lilac stag is your cdm up fro grabs somewhere?

[lilac stag]

I can send parts, but there’s no full export and it’s using custom textures I made if you want it exactly the same.

[river coral]

fuck, sub wont get buffed at all with these numbers, actually decent

[limpid sage]

tier set goes hard on sub

so might miss heroic week nerfs since less people will have tier

but idk how they're gonna do it exactly

[plush roost]

Were getting 8% in a week bud

Those m0 logs

[river coral]

yeh could be, was just thinking it was worse, cuz a lot of specs are below that number

[plush roost]

Nah were getting nerfed 8)

[analog hearth]

m0 logs

[river coral]

so no pont to expect any buffs

[plush roost]

I wish i was joking but blizz looooves "live data"

[limpid sage]

yes but it's not in heroic week

[analog hearth]

shouldnt have sweated in the m0s fuark

[plush roost]

See havoc in s1 tww

[limpid sage]

and fury warr

hit them with the soft cap at 5 instead of 8

[plush roost]

They cooked havoc before heroic raid even came out

[limpid sage]

when the pure numbers were the issue and not the target count

[hazy breach]

The live data set has to be like 1000 times bigger than any test data they have

[limpid sage]

was like 33% dps below enha on sustained dps

[calm cloud]

so did i see that correctly, using the apex min max only a dmg gain during lust (0,2% dmg gain) ?

[plush roost]

Ye its just bad data even if its a lot of data imo, game doesnt play in 20 second pull timers

[hazy breach]

It is what it is

[plush roost]

Yeeee

[humble rover]

did he have enchants and stuff, do you? i played with another sub rogue, he doubled my dmg on a boss, we basically had the same amount of casts on all abilities, difference was he had some more m0 gear + fully enchanted and gemmed

[wheat edge]

heroic ansurek did insane damage to fury warrior

[limpid sage]

both fully enchanted but fury was just horrible in sustained dps back in tww s1

was carried by broken dmg profile

but you could def see it in dungs like cinderbrew

[wheat edge]

yeah it did insane burst aoe -> which then made it be the flatest class of all time for the rest of the expac (dont get me wrong I liked s3 fury)

[limpid sage]

df s3 fury and tww s1 fury was peak to me

tww s3 was best flat version

[lilac stag]

S3 was fun. Pacing was really good.

[wheat edge]

and now raging blow is #11 on the prio list, below wrecking throw

[lilac stag]

didn’t care for the pavlov‘s dogs weak aura

[short radish]

don't worry it's being buffed

[calm cloud]

currently doing the storm assault event and the lag is unbarabel, i have 17 ms but there is still like 1~2 sec delay between cast and actualy spells going off.

is that only because of the lagg in the outer world or will i have the same problems in raids?

[lilac stag]

welcome to the pvp zone

Likely fine in raids

[calm cloud]

my main concern is that i will ahve the same problems in raids

hmm okay

[hazy breach]

Outdoor zones with lots of people always lag

[calm cloud]

kinda old ish set up aswell so idk if its hardware issues

[hazy breach]

It has nothing to do with you

It's the server

[keen dome]

It's also because of the abundance stuff

multiple raid groups all doing it at once, tons of computes, etc.

[short radish]

https://x.com/sharkfishqt/status/2029946460674855356?s=20

miso🍜 (@sharkfishqt)

DUNDUN IM GONNA NEED YOU TO UNLAG THE FUCKING SERVERS RIGHT NOW YOU LITTLE PIECE OF ABUNDANT SHIT

X · Mar 6, 2026, 3:45 PM

[keen dome]

https://tenor.com/view/opulence-destiny-2-calus-gif-5224929520410376987

[vale pine]

There is a certain irony in this, as its a solvable problem

[keen dome]

I think it's very fitting that emperor rattus is causing the servers to crash because we're growing too abundant with strength

[fleet acorn]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[fleet acorn]

Isnt there some cancelaura macro we should use on sectech?

[alpine wraith]

not anymore

[twin surge]

what changed with that? because on buglist i still see apex clones use phys hit of sectech

[alpine wraith]

phys hit still hits more or less than phys evis

so it is whatever

[twin surge]

great

[thorny ridge]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[brisk raptor]

@alpine wraith we send 2 dances during blades, but can only fit one sectech in right?

[alpine wraith]

yea unless you have bl right now you only get 1 sec tech

when we get guidon it will be abit diff

as that one gives around 2 secs extra of dancee

[calm cloud]

does vanish in a boss fight count as "out of combat" or are you just invis but still in combat?

[brisk raptor]

Awesome, thanks. So after the initial 2 dances back to back during blades do we hold sectech for our next dance? It seems my sectech comes off cd quicker than my charge of dance replenishes.

[alpine wraith]

depends but yea you just send sec tech and dance together

[swift tinsel]

Still in combat in raid

[alpine wraith]

yea only vanish min max you can do is vanish when a pull is about to end or there is 1 mob and everyone is spaghetti slapping it to get first dance better

or if you know a boss is coming

[obsidian dew]

The 160 vet crests is to have embellishments to increase your power going into first raid week. If you already crafted a dagger, you only need to save 80. The embellishment items are just there until you craft your second real item.

[alpine wraith]

for raid it is literally maybe a gap closer or a way to get some ms

it also cleanses slows and roots

and makes you immune to slows for like 3 secs

even if not told anywhere

[obsidian dew]

I was

[short radish]

good morning

[brisk raptor]

I thought vet crests weren’t used when crafting?

[short radish]

thank you for the explanation

[calm cloud]

do we already know which delve will be the goto to spamm tier 8 on?

[alpine wraith]

you can use veteran crests to craft items and get an embellish on them yea

grudge pit my beloved

[calm cloud]

sofar it seems like collegiate calamitys

[alpine wraith]

may not be the shortest but it is so good not having to bother moving a lot

[calm cloud]

seen like sub 2 min collegiate runs sofar but not sure if its doable with sub rogue

Valera is kinda ass

[brisk raptor]

Hmm I thought when I crafted my dagger it didn’t use veteran crests? I put the sigil embellishment on it

[twin surge]

blue gear uses veteran crests making them 246 ilvl gear with embelish

[alpine wraith]

you can also choose stats that is kinda neat

and there is also secret tech for engi you can choose 1 stat only gear on wrists helmet or boots but no embellish

or well you can put embellish but most of them suck

so better to use the LW one

[brisk raptor]

Ohhh I see! It’s when crafting blue gear

[obsidian dew]

It's just a nice little boost especially for split alts going into first week

Yessir

[brisk raptor]

Thanks for the clarification!!

[twin surge]

yeh would be so nice if we could normal embelish.

[brisk raptor]

Is there any reason to not go ahead and craft embellishment item with vet crests now?

[alpine wraith]

if you have aleady done everything that can drop veteran this week you could

and wont do pvp

[brisk raptor]

Sure did. So I guess just craft embellishment on weakest item for now since it’s going to end up getting replaced once we can spark craft?

[obsidian dew]

I would wait until after your second. Week of m0s

Never know if you might get unlucky

If you have adv boots and gloves for example, you'd craft in those slots

But if you have vet in every slot already then yeah go ahead

[torpid echo]

You could also for example, craft a dagger and a wrist which is what we usually use as crafts and have them boost ur ilvl there and whe it's time to craft with higher crests you just recraft those pieces, netting you some mat save. In case you are stingy with gold

[brisk raptor]

Appreciate all the info!

[twin surge]

you cant recraft the blue gear which is used with veteran crest again using spark. spark gear is totally different.

[wind burrow]

hey guys some generally question in dungeons other subs are doing decent more dmg then me and i dont really know what i am doing wrong here in aoe i just spam shuriken storm into black powder and using shadow dance if its up then secret technique is up i use it aswell

[alpine wraith]

that is quite general you could mess up many things there

be sure to use your coup when available or DN if DS

[tribal blade]

this makes it sound like you send dance and sectec on cd seperately, make sure you only ever dance with sectec

and then x2 dances back to back during blades

[wind burrow]

i see why not dance with blackpowder ?

[wanton oxide]

So I am able to track whether I have 5+ shadow techniques to use shadowstrike on full combo points, but I’m not sure how to track if I already have ancient arts up, I think I might be doubling up on shadowstrike sometimes when it’s not necessary. Hopefully that makes sense. How do you pros track ancient arts?

[hazy breach]

Well you dont need to dance on cooldown

You have charges of it

[tribal blade]

sectec 1st finisher in dance, then you can black powder the rest

[hazy breach]

And secret technique does more damage than bp

[wind burrow]

okay

[alpine wraith]

wow has an ingame spell effect for apex 3

check you dont have it disabled

[wind burrow]

so spaming shuriken and bp and when st is up using dance ?

[tribal blade]

generally yes

[dawn heron]

game options - combat - spell alert opacity

[wind burrow]

alr ty guys

[wanton oxide]

What does it look like?

[swift tinsel]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[swift tinsel]

black smudges

[wanton oxide]

Lmao that is very obvious

Not sure how I never noticed that

Thanks

Appreciate yall

[calm cloud]

you can lower the alpha

[swift tinsel]

you might have Spell Alert Opacity down

[calm cloud]

and make it less obvi

[swift tinsel]

a lot of addons set it to zero

[wanton oxide]

It was always there I just didn’t know what it meant 🤣

[swift tinsel]

ah lmao

ope

[haughty geyser]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[dawn heron]

G Spell Alert Custom (GSAC) - this addon can control your size and opacity of the alert and make it per spec - so you can have it visible on sub rogue, but no assa etc

[candid prawn]

So I currently have coup in both my evis and black powder macros. How bad of an idea is this just for the laziness? I don't have many coups outside SD, but it does happen every now and then

[candid prawn]

Oh that's helpful, ty

[calm cloud]

dont need to macro it into evisc

evisc turns into coup automatically

if you have a procc your evisc turns into coup replacing evisc basically

[candid prawn]

Oh duh, yeah. Same thing just for BP then; I have them both on the same macro with a shift modifier

[wanton oxide]

For ST opener(if no SnD), we want to SS from stealth evisc before going into shadow dance-Shadow blades-Sectech?

[calm cloud]

since you want to use coup in aoe you can just use the coup bp macro and use it as usuall

[valid spade]

is it possible to make a macro thats only useable if gcd is up ? i want to use the shadow dance secrett macro. but sometimes i press it with gcd up feels clunky

[candid prawn]

Gotcha, so it's not a substantial optimization to save coup for SD if it's not up in aoe?

[torpid echo]

I know, but don't you use the veteran crests on crafted gear? Or is that another type of gear?
If that's the case I'm sorry for the mix up

[calm cloud]

tbh you would have to sim it, idk

could be a dps increase but also a lose since you could miss out on a 2nd coup out the back?

[vale pine]

i wish they would change the color to be more visible, the black is too low contrast

just a quick mockup, how it would look like in red

[lilac stag]

Wonder if you can change the texture file

[dawn heron]

yep agree, even assa blindsides yellow looks more obvious

[calm cloud]

i just set oppacity all the way up and it works for me

[half maple]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[torn tide]

thats exactly what i thought, some areas are like dark af so they blend in too

[vale pine]

like

i made my ui in a lighter blue tone

because its a good contrast for most settings

even for blue tones

contrast issues are common, its just the black is bad

because the default is barely visible

and even if you increase it to the highest setting, backgrounds are often dark/Black

[marble sail]

No fucking shot u have kick above cds

[vale pine]

I have my damage cooldown on the lower bar

[lilac stag]

no fucking shot u have that font to your discord name, yet here we are.

[vale pine]

Utility above

[marble sail]

I literally cant remember how to change it back

[vale pine]

Its actually nice, kick is sth thats easy to miss

[marble sail]

False

I throw my kick into nothing so its not my job to kick

cant kick if u dont have it 🔥

[lilac stag]

Where gouge?

[alpine wraith]

fuu is a blind believer

tbh it is ranged

[twin surge]

spark gear only uses Heroic and Myth crests. The gear that uses veteran crests is totally different and doesnt use spark.

[torpid echo]

I thought you could use crafted gear and add a spark or crests to it, my bad

[swift tinsel]

this but brighter purple would be a vast improvement to the baseline

[lilac stag]

can’t see clones.
can’t see apex.

ai art team failures

[calm cloud]

even on high spell density ?

[lilac stag]

the clones are extremely faint and their fix was to add a hint of pink to them.

vs kyveza clones which you could actually see

[calm cloud]

honestly i don't mind about the clones that much, have spell density to essentials anways to have less clutter on screen

[lilac stag]

good for you.

[gilded ferry]

in cleave scens are we using evis or bp?

[hazy breach]

Eviscerate doesnt cleave anymore

[calm cloud]

#subtlety-faq message

[gilded ferry]

oh damn, thats more info than wowhead

[calm cloud]

how much dps do we actualy get from applying ironclaw whtstone to weapons?

[swift tinsel]

that's from TWW

should be Thalassian Phoenix Oil for Midnight

[swift tinsel]

which section is this?

[calm cloud]

rotation>pre combat check for midnight

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#rotations-pre-combat-checks

[heady garden]

Has this changed now so we only do it in ST and only in lust? It was up to 3 targets before

[calm cloud]

@vale pine 's guide

[swift tinsel]

@vale pine Precombat check section lists TWW consumable (Ironclaw Whetstone)

[swift tinsel]

nice catch

[lean rover]

Seems weird our prio on stats is Mastery, yet we should be using Shattered Sun Crit Flask

[final hound]

regarding #6 and #7

in aoe,
do i press SS once to get mark, then continue with Shuriken?
or is it always SS ?

[tepid trellis]

Strike to get Mark then build with storm

[calm cloud]

guide says either crit or mastery flask and it depends on your gear which is better and to sim for your own set up which results in better dps

[lean rover]

Yeah seems like it will always be a sim siutaiton

[calm cloud]

idk if mastery works like back in cata but it used to have cap thresholds where more mstery would be a 0 dps gain untill you hit another full mastery point with 27 mastery rating for example, in that case it could be that the full mastery flask is not being utilized correctly and ending in a dps lose

[wild vine]

Stats nearly always are a sim situation

[calm cloud]

again idk about retail but that would be one way how crit could win out there

[lean rover]

Just not used to simming my flask

[valid drum]

Any good reason not to use backstab / shadowstrike on same keybind?

[dense geode]

Can someone explain why cancelaura for Ancient Arts is a dps gain for 3+ tar

[swift tinsel]

cancelaura is only used on Darkest Night

for deathstalker bc its so weak compared to Black Powder in aoe

[dense geode]

What is so weak

Ancient arts?

[swift tinsel]

darkest night buffed eviscerate

you don't want to use an ancient arts proc on it

in aoe

[dense geode]

okay so cancelaura

darknight night

not ancient arts

[swift tinsel]

you can't cancelaura darkest night

if you have darkest night ready, you cancelaura ancient arts

[dense geode]

yea im confused as to why cancel the apex would lead to an AOE gain

what am i missing

[swift tinsel]

darkest night buffed eviscerate is very weak in aoe compared to black powder

[dense geode]

right

[swift tinsel]

so you don't want to use an ancient arts proc on darkest night eviscerate

[wheat edge]

the ret pally proc is very clear - and then you get the barely visible sub rogue one

[dense geode]

So canceling the ancient art proc will make it reproc again without losing value?

[swift tinsel]

yes

[dense geode]

so it would be like Storm BP storm BP Storm cancel aura Evis Storm BP

[swift tinsel]

more like storm bp bp

[graceful osprey]

Sub rogue needs something like this

[swift tinsel]

but yeah if you have Ancient Arts buff up and your next finisher is Darkest Night Eviscerate you /cancelaura Ancient Arts, cast Evisc, then go back to normal

[dense geode]

[swift tinsel]

maybe one day they'll make dn evisc not stinky poopoo in aoe

but it is not this day

so we're stuck doing shit

[left ledge]

Barely visible one?

Haha

Hahaha

[swift tinsel]

like never playing Deathstalker lol

[left ledge]

A subtle one get it guys haahahhahhaahahireallylikethefactthatourvisualsarestillcompletedogshithahahahahahahahahaha

[crystal atlas]

We only hit shadow dance when sec tec is coming right we no longer chain 2 inside blades 2 outside blades?

[analog granite]

If you still have blades up I do believe you send a shadow dance without sec tec

[golden totem]

Haven't played DS yet, but does a separate macro with ancient art cancel aura + evis works?

If it works it's not that cringe

Gameplay wise

[swift tinsel]

you still send 2x dance in blades

just one will be without sectech unless you have bloodlust/haste trinket

but yeah outside blades you're only using dance with sectech

to supercharge it

[calm cloud]

btw why is a sword offhand not viable ?

[dawn heron]

attack speed

[calm cloud]

so basically just nimble flurry?

[dawn heron]

shadow tech mainly, more CP

[plush roost]

!ph

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[plush roost]

^

[calm cloud]

kk

thought everyting would be normalized in retail by now lmao

[plush roost]

Its quite literally 100s of cp over an encounter

Unlacky

[limpid sage]

ye no clue why they haven't done that yet

would make it so much easier going between sub and outlaw

[calm cloud]

the last bit of class identity

[limpid sage]

ye but then again you can tmog daggers as swords now

[plush roost]

Oh shit ur right

I keep forgetting

Kyveza fist weapon

Gors crazystyle on my mog

[silver solstice]

Can anyone break down for me why Goremaw is counted out of almost every icey veins/wowhead talent build? I thought it was great while I was leveling.

[plush roost]

Blue one specifically

[limpid sage]

heavy competition in the bottom of the tree, and it simply just doesn't deal enough dmg

[plush roost]

Less damage than shadowstrike, u dont need energy during dance, u dont care about finishers out of dance, better talents, is a capstone spot

[silver solstice]

Heard. So deffinitely wasteful for PVP burst, but we dont even need the energy to close cooldown gaps in long boss fights?

[plush roost]

If it was early in the tree i could see it being considered ngl

Eh damage out of dance is quite low

And youd have to drop something in the bottom gate to take it

What do u drop?

Finality is stronger, death perception is giga, shadowcraft, dark soul and lashe are non negotiable, deeper daggers is stronger

Not much space to drop for it

[calm cloud]

bottom... sub.... this specc sounds kinda kinky ngl

[silver solstice]

No points in Finality, to your point, even just 15% is a lot when mastery has most of my damage in combo spenders

[plush roost]

Me when i put on my tentacle mog without pants and press secret technique to gang mob you

Uwu

[silver solstice]

I was skipping shadowcraft until I realized what Ancient arts is doing

Seems like it deals with energy distribution better than a 45 sec cooldown

[plush roost]

Yeee basically sub has 2 moveable talent points and its moved between finality, tfd, weapon master, imp sec tec, and potent powder

[silver solstice]

I assumed potent powder is reserved for my "oh we need AOE" spec

[plush roost]

Shadowcraft is insane energy indeed, remember ur apex talent clones give sht procs so its a ton of energy

[silver solstice]

And secret tech seems like it would be dumb to get if I dont already have 2 points in finality considering its the same 15% per point on a more used ability

[vale pine]

yellow is a better contrast colo, so makes sense

[silver solstice]

I was originally thinking about doing The First Dance instead of Goremaw so I wouldnt have to spend 2 dance cooldowns every fight, but it looks like the main goal is to just make finishers maximized at all costs

[plush roost]

Well its more like, tfd is good if u can proc it more than once every 2 minutes, potent powder is swapped with weapon master for st/aoe, imp sec tec in general is an ST boost but if u wanted to inflate aoe u can take finality

Most people have settled on just swapping potent and wm tbh

[silver solstice]

Only other thing I'm caught up on with this new one is taking 1 vs 2 combo point stratagem talents

[plush roost]

Oh yeah those are non negotiable lmfao

[silver solstice]

always right?

[plush roost]

Yeah we have infinite combo points in dance so its logical to go 7 every finisher instead

[silver solstice]

The only reason it popped up is cuz I leveled with 1 so I could war mode with double vanish, and now I find myself going "shit I need 1 more, SHIV"

[plush roost]

Finishing at 6 is fine

Even with 7cp bar

[silver solstice]

So just smack one builder and one spender every GCD during dance regardless?

[calm cloud]

if you have apex procc double finisher

except during lust

there you do the !aa

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

[silver solstice]

ohhhh

[plush roost]

Pretty much, assuming you havent completely lost uptime and have no sht every builder should take you to 7

[calm cloud]

slight dmg increase by like 0.2% i think is what i read

[swift tinsel]

did anyone else sim against removing the strike-apex line and having it be pretty much neutral now?

[calm cloud]

only during lust currently though (subject to change)

[plush roost]

Youre pretty saturated on sht in dance

[silver solstice]

That explains a lot. I keep the one click rotation button on the side of my hot bar to see what is suggesting, and I do often go "Why would I shadow strike again?"

[plush roost]

As in the apex thing? Yeah its neutral now

[swift tinsel]

ah gotcha, didn't really see it mentioned and thought it was interesting

[plush roost]

Who knows maybe next week its a gain again

[swift tinsel]

lmao right

simc likes flipping that coin

[plush roost]

I imagine fuu and eleem must be losing their minds

[astral axle]

i like doing it

[autumn condor]

Discussion about it is in #1065728795455266888

[plush roost]

Apl just flip flops on it

[swift tinsel]

is it before the lamentoso stuff

[plush roost]

Its the big wall fuu posted

Right under it

[silver solstice]

Do you guys do anything to track stuff like 5 stacks of tech now that our weak auras are daed?

[plush roost]

Biggest take away is dance at <9 seconds sblades like i thought early on

[swift tinsel]

ah so only in lust now

[tepid trellis]

just the cooldown manager

[silver solstice]

The Blizzard one? I couldn't find the option to move it in edit mode so I pushed it off and told myself I'll find an addon that does it better 😂

[dawn heron]

BCM

[tepid trellis]

is what im tracking

[calm cloud]

why track the CD's? your essentials show when they are running and for how long

[swift tinsel]

mine don't

on purpose

[tepid trellis]

same

[swift tinsel]

I like having my buffs in one consolidated place

and for abilities with buffs and charges, got in the habit of being able to see buff duration and remaining cooldown at the same time

[golden totem]

Did u guys check the disable aura ooption? When I do that the cdm bugs out on dance charges

And it annoys me

Shows me 0 charge on dance when I have 1

[swift tinsel]

am a bit surprised to see ff tracked

[golden totem]

When I disabled aura

[calm cloud]

you guys using wangbar for the energy/cp?

[dawn heron]

elvui

[swift tinsel]

I'm using ellesmere's ui atm and it updates as fast as wangbar

without the border issues

[tepid trellis]

not actually sure why i do

[calm cloud]

im kinda unhappy wiht the customizability of wangbar and often the CP show up after the global went through? but apparently thats a server being issue

[swift tinsel]

with the buff being persistent instead of ironfurring I dropped tracking it

[tepid trellis]

with what im using atm i can also add spells elsewhere like Feint duration

[swift tinsel]

ah I have feint in my Essential row so that it isn't tiny lol

might reconfigure though

[formal helm]

what exactly are you using?

[formal helm]

ah atrocity

[swift tinsel]

EUI still doesn't have all the full functions like x/y resizing so I'm a bit limited on how the icons look atm

[calm cloud]

im using arcui for the CDM and works fine imo

juts doesn't support a energy/cp bar

[formal helm]

I'm rn just using the base UI

I think it's kinda okay

yeah, it doesn't let you customise it as much

but it's okay-ish

[swift tinsel]

arcui should have both energy and cp now

had energy for a long time, and added cp a few weeks ago

unless they reverted

[silver solstice]

I was trying my best to do this. It deffinitely feels impossible to get it just how I would want it back in the weakaura days

[uncut hinge]

any way to get the combo points on the cd manager like that with the base ui?

[calm cloud]

maybe im too dumb but didn't find any option for it

ah yes im too dumb

[swift tinsel]

its under one of the tabs at the top, idr which one though

power?

something like that

[calm cloud]

was looking for the words energybar or cp

but its hinden behind the icons

[swift tinsel]

oh

yeah that one

[formal helm]

oh yeah, but it's still functional is what I meant to say

[swift tinsel]

sorry haven't used arc in a bit lol

[silver solstice]

Im pretty sure I have a moveable combo point generator from vanilla. But it might be from Enhance QoL

[sullen ridge]

is energy/cp bar also from Atrocity(ACDM) or you are using some other addon for cp/energy

[tepid trellis]

its from his setup just changed the colours

[calm cloud]

this is fine for an energy bar right? (filling from left to right)

[silver solstice]

Oh, no I lied, I have SenseiClassResourceBar. Im barely using it though. My preference is to have combo points on the nameplate of my target.

The Addon Hear Kitty from when I was leveling my druid gives me fun audio indicators as Im building combo points that makes it less urgent to have in the middle of my screen

[silver solstice]

My girlfriend saw this image and said "how does every always have so much bullshit on their screen in that game?" and I had to explain it was edit mode 😂

[storm heart]

Can you still use a non dagger one hander in off hand as sub ?

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[calm cloud]

all right

all arcui

inb4 it behaviours 10x worse then wangbar

🤮 forgot to change the bar texture for the CP

brother ew

[swift tinsel]

you don't want to do that, it limits your resource generation

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[chrome palm]

Remember to -1 gap your icons so the border stays 1px if that’s what you’re going for

[calm cloud]

have no border active

the icons just seem to have a dark corner all around for what ever reason

[chrome palm]

That should be a border no?

[hollow spear]

Is there a catch up for sparks? I won't be able to get my last toon through the quests

[calm cloud]

apprently not

[chrome palm]

Is that under cdm icons or default

[calm cloud]

cdm icons

[chrome palm]

That’s an override

Default applies global settings

So you aren’t overriding a border but the default settings still apply one

[lilac stag]

!oh since I didn’t see it answered.

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[lilac stag]

Shit haptics got it. Oh well

[willow knoll]

figured that out when I was new while leveling

idk if it's just because of shadow techniques but even at low level the hammer felt bad

[dreamy latch]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[glad bough]

are there any combo point addons that show super charged points and still look like the default combo points? i tried a few but wasnt seeing the supercahrged pooints

[warm marlin]

wangbar

you may have to change textures though

[glad bough]

can those rectangular points be turned into circles? i know it sounds weird but i got a fucked up brain and it will bother me

solid

[warm marlin]

ah ye if u mean circles

maybe not

[glad bough]

🙁

[blazing folio]

hey, with a 2 min cd trinket is it best to use it together with shadow blades at first and than using both separate until they are synced again?

[soft summit]

Just regarding this

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - ☑️ Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - ☑️ Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - ❌ No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only during lust.

I’m having a very difficult time grasping this concept. It’s like my brain is not absorbing it… so I think if I could just give scenarios and maybe someone could say yes or no that would help me a lot. All scenarios are single target and begin after sending dance and sectech

Scenario 1. I shadow strike. I have full combo points, and have ancient art up.

Scenario 2. I shadow strike. I have full combo points but I don’t have ancient arts up and I only have 4 shadow techs.

Scenario 3. I have full combo points and 5 shadow techs but no ancient arts.

If in any of these I send a shadow strike, if I don’t get ancient arts do I keep sending shadow strikes until I do?

[hazy breach]

Pretend your 2 min trinket is 3 min

[blazing folio]

okok, ty. so skip one trinket use.

[dawn heron]

you shadow strike in scenario 3 and you'll get ancient arts

[tepid trellis]

1. Evis
2. Evis
3. Strike

[soft summit]

Surprising this helps a lot. Thanks guys. (I love this discord)

Why does 5 shadow techs matter?

[tepid trellis]

you need 5 or more to proc the apex

[soft summit]

Copy

[swift tinsel]

just in time for it not to be a gain anymore

[oblique rune]

Do we craft Farstrider's Mercy first week?

[tulip light]

Is thre any way to check if certain items (eg trinkets / ring sets ) are "over simming" ?

[tulip light]

You could even do it now since we play crafted weapon all season and you just re craft it later w/o loss of sparks

[lilac stag]

Gain during lust.

[south zenith]

If you want to be 100% certain of what to craft wait untill the 17th

[swift tinsel]

within margin

[tulip light]

@lilac stag do you have a stream / youtube?

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-and-dumber-lloyd-theres-a-chance-jim-carrey-gif-11098164

[swift tinsel]

depends on how raidbots is feeling that day

[lilac stag]

or which bug fix blizzard flips.

[alpine wraith]

at least it is a win on bl

but seems for trickster everywhere else is kinda neutral

[lilac stag]

at this point I’m patterned trained

[oblique rune]

I'am kinda new to wow, but why dont we craft dagger with bleed?

[shrewd monolith]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Numerically it’s not as good

Especially in multi target

[oblique rune]

Oh, we cant put emb on it?

[lilac stag]

no. that is the embellishment

[oblique rune]

Ah, Ic now

Got it thanx

[lilac stag]

who knows if we seem embellishment tuning but it’s usually a very minor part of dps profile

unless you’re fury warrior.

[swift tinsel]

iirc hunt was +0.9% for me last I simmed with my gear and crafted dagger

[lilac stag]

I assume they were asking fishhook

[swift tinsel]

yeah

if its like tww embellishments are just kinda there

[lilac stag]

which is sad

the minimal scaling is also

Jesus blizzard. Let’s make the enchanting quest week two be turn in a dawn crystal.

so much for those dropping this week

[swift tinsel]

just ran it again and hunt beats hook by ~0.9% and hunt beats no hunt by 1.2% with my gear

[lilac stag]

3 bgs

[tawny marlin]

4 week questline

[swift tinsel]

just saw the wowhead post saying its gated

ye

multi-week thing

[lilac stag]

interesting

[celest mulch]

Think it’ll be a pvp item?

[marble sail]

its a pvp questline

😭

[marble sail]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-timegated-4-week-pvp-quest-chain-to-earn-hero-track-gear-380708?utm_source=discord-webhook

[hollow wigeon]

what stats are we putting on our crafting weapon?

[lilac stag]

haste mastery unless you have enough haste

[graceful crown]

question, i have this stats without buffs:

this talents sims more than crit damage, is it because i have low crit %?

or because haste+atk.spd procs more ST?

[swift tinsel]

yes more ShT stacks

auto attacks go brrrr

[fallow nimbus]

Atk speed big

[graceful crown]

ahhh alright i didnt try this talent yet can be a nice flow

[calm cloud]

Is this a meme or is that the actual fury dmg profile?

[full delta]

is there a reason people are holding to craft the dagger with embellishment if its BIS for all of S1 anyway(in offhand when you get myth track for mainhand)? Is it just incase of buffs/nerfs to other specs?

[tepid trellis]

so the idea is that it can be "wasted" if you do mythic bosses early on and it happens to drop more than 1 dagger

cuz then you could spend it on something better for progress sake

[calm cloud]

you could drop a good mythic dagger weak one and or prios could change with season 1 release

[tepid trellis]

and just get it later for the full BiS later during farm

[calm cloud]

later

[polar schooner]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

and now your hunter is happy

[tepid trellis]

like they get to play surv

LMFAO

good one

[lilac stag]

better chance of SV playing than Outlaw.

[tepid trellis]

rule number 1

[graceful crown]

17th march update, subtlety - Eviscerate damage increased by 20%

[tepid trellis]

never let a ranged player in melee

[lilac stag]

get the healers out of melee for the love of god

[hollow wigeon]

Well shit guess ill wait to craft the dagger

[tepid trellis]

if you arent raiding at a decently high level i just wouldnt bother and just craft the dagger

[lilac stag]

it makes the misc stuff this week die faster

[full delta]

so how long are you holding the craft until? The day of the 2nd week of Mythic to wait for vault + maybe killing Vorasius?

[lilac stag]

holding

[graceful crown]

nice hold there

pog

[hollow spear]

I am holding something else 🥵

[graceful crown]

ho

[torn tide]

the other dagger frfr

[hollow spear]

the realest

[ember peak]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[pallid jackal]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[autumn condor]

Different for different guilds. A lot of people will just hold until their guild decides to send, same with crests. But either heroic week, mythic week, or 2nd week of mythic + Vorasius will probably all be popular. Just depends if it's decided you need to send it or not depending on what you're progressing or not.

[astral axle]

Like your clown nose? That’s what I hold every chance I get. My clown nose.

[pallid jackal]

So outlaw sims highest pretty much?

[astral axle]

I’m an infinite jest what can I say

[tepid trellis]

always does

[hollow spear]

Same dimensions, approximately

[pallid jackal]

why? last tier was more subtletly / assa

[hollow spear]

Stealthi will surely play Outlaw during progression

[tepid trellis]

cuz sim dps =/= actual performance

[glad cosmos]

And yet outlaw was dogshit. Doesnt factor in things like downtime, burst windows, fight timings etc

[celest mulch]

OL even any fun right now? No idea how the spec plays after all the changes

[tepid trellis]

ngl think there is a higher chance of getting strucky by lightning 3 times in a row than that happening

[celest mulch]

havent bothered looking

[torn tide]

is that papyrus on ur pfp

[autumn condor]

You still wokevoker moding?

[hollow spear]

If you actually end up playing law, I might have to up my life insurance

[tepid trellis]

what?

[autumn condor]

You said you were playing evoker a few weeks ago

[tepid trellis]

no

i did not

[lilac stag]

Better chance of Stealthi playing Devourer

[tepid trellis]

i have a devourer DH

not an evoker

[hollow spear]

devourer rhymes with evoker

[autumn condor]

I swear you said evoker

[hollow spear]

:^)

[autumn condor]

But w/e

[tepid trellis]

if you are dyslexic sure

[autumn condor]

I am dyslexic

[hollow spear]

gimme enough drinks and it definitely rhymes

[tepid trellis]

might be dyslexic but you arent allergic to pressing SoD back2back2back

so atleast thats good

[autumn condor]

for the cause

[tepid trellis]

but yeh my alt is just a "dev" DH

[autumn condor]

I see I see, I swear you said you weren't playing rogue because sub smells now or whatever

It really did change my opinion of you to think of you playing evoker ngl so

Glad to hear it is not true

[tepid trellis]

i have joked about it but not recently

[autumn condor]

Ya this was weeks ago

[pallid jackal]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[tepid trellis]

i absolutely hated the initial sub rework

so if it stayed i wouldve rerolled to DH or shaman

[autumn condor]

Yeah of course

Love steal this ham

The goat

[tepid trellis]

my DH is very undercover too

[autumn condor]

Nice nice nice

[plush roost]

Whyd you post a randoms dh?

[exotic steeple]

what buff could sub need to go from decent to good

[plush roost]

Erm

Its already good

[tepid trellis]

pretty sure it already is quite good

[exotic steeple]

ok from good to amazing

[plush roost]

Idk like 30% evis 10% sec tec

[tepid trellis]

fix premed bug and apex+sectech

[plush roost]

Fixing apex sec tec and premed would be such degen gameplay lowkey

[pallid jackal]

Do we still hold coup de grace for like 10-20s for cds?

[tepid trellis]

no

[plush roost]

Pool 5 sht before dance

[exotic steeple]

you think its realistic, those will be fixed? before content

[plush roost]

Holy

[tepid trellis]

not remotely no

[exotic steeple]

:(

[tepid trellis]

premed has been bugged all of tww with shadowcraft

so highly doubt

and anything with clones

on sub

is always a mess

[torn tide]

oh they did?

[plush roost]

I have my top officials working on it

[tepid trellis]

they did not

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-cat-keyboard-cat-fast-gif-5753018

[tepid trellis]

im saying they should

[vale pine]

• coup gcd

[torn tide]

oh sorry i didnt read above

[pallid jackal]

sht? Ah you mean pool coup about 5 sec before dance

[exotic steeple]

hoping my boomie gets some love otherwise im gonna go sub main this xpac

only 2 classes i enjoy

[plush roost]

No no im speaking about the hypothetical scenario in which premed and apex sec tec are fixed

[exotic steeple]

who escalates such bugs to blizzard

community forums?

[plush roost]

Nobody theyre aware of it and have different priorities

[exotic steeple]

ah yea

buffing mages

[plush roost]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vale pine]

most bugs are known

its just a problem of priorities

[exotic steeple]

srsly that pisses me off so much tho

i mean there are probably so many capable people

[vale pine]

you have limited time for changes

and bugfixes

and tuning

[torn tide]

not enuff rogues complain to blizz maybe so theyre like "ehh not too important"

[exotic steeple]

even in this discord i bet there would be plenty that could work at blizzard and make these things happen

just take some out of every dc

and ur set lmao

[vale pine]

so things often get triaged, bugs that don't seem important enough will get shelfed

and often not resolved

[plush roost]

Personally i think bugs that have persisted for 1yr+ or are a major part of a class should raise in priority but hey

Overworked understaffed

[swift tinsel]

after seeing ellesmere working on his UI i'm convinced blizz devs are on vacation perma

at least from fixing things

[shut dawn]

Confused on this - do we never use dance until st is ready? I thought since we have 2 charges of dance we will has to use 1 charge while st is on cd or else we will overcap charges

[swift tinsel]

you want to supercharge sectech so you're wanting to make sure you have a dance for every one

and the charges allow you to do that by having the cd rolling

[shut dawn]

Ok right that makes sense. Thx

[plush roost]

Nah its more so that they have 6 versions of the game and if you fix something on an old version and then a new version is pushed and its no longer fixed for different reasons then also has to be considered for balance impact so that takes time to ship through the dev team its a lot more than just opening wowedit unfortunately.

[swift tinsel]

ye they gotta stop spreading the team thin

[plush roost]

Ellesmere UI is a project with 200% attention and time

[swift tinsel]

how many versions of wow are running atm

retail, classic anniversary, classic

is SoD still going or has that been sunset

[plush roost]

More like, how many versions of retail are running

Live, beta, .5 ptr, .7 ptr patch 12.1 alpha

[swift tinsel]

holy cluster

[exotic steeple]

just hire the turtle wow team and let the current devs focus in retail lol

[swift tinsel]

no wonder version diffs are a thing

or odd merges

[plush roost]

It just doesnt work that way unfort

Yeah thats what happened to potent powder

Was fixed late on a beta cycle, new beta patch hits 2 days later and its broken again

[swift tinsel]

that'll be a tidy aoe boost

if/when fixed

[plush roost]

Before and after fix

Should be slightly behind shadowed finishers

[austere plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

Did you try it?

[pallid jackal]

I also wonder about this. Also, what do you use in tracking it? Not sure I understand everything about the apex optimisation. Like why would you do this?

[vale pine]

wdym?

[swift tinsel]

hes literally working on just that for 20 hours a day

and as of late last night/early this morning has brought on people for internal testing and bug fixes

[calm cloud]

is ellesmere a referance to eragon btw?

first thing i thought of when reading the name

[hazy breach]

Probably have to ask him

[pallid jackal]

!stats

[hazy breach]

Its a longstanding wow content creator

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Single Target / Mythic+: Mastery >= `Haste(~18%, roughly 650-700)` > `Critical Strike` > Versatility

[swift tinsel]

ye he's been one of the top m+ holy paladins/healers for a hot minute

cool dude

[torn tide]

yo do yall know why brewmaster monk is so good rn? i even see some doing like pretty good dps

[swift tinsel]

favorable tuning = good dps

[runic sinew]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[soft summit]

Shadow techniques are trackable with blizzards Ui.. the advanced cooldowns thing

[vale pine]

for how long

[soft summit]

No longer a gain?

[vale pine]

20h a day sounds exreggerated

[calm cloud]

imagin sleeping more then 4 hours a day

[swift tinsel]

iirc its been a work in progress for a few weeks but he opened it up for beta testing a few days ago

[calm cloud]

slacker

[swift tinsel]

he's pushing updates quite literally all throughout the day

[vale pine]

i did some rly unhealthy working in the past on sim stuff

and you need to eat, sleep and some other stuff

[calm cloud]

daily pushes does not mean its alot of work, not flaming or down playing

[torn tide]

shitty sleep can truly affect u in huge ways

[vale pine]

so most you get is like 15h/day

[swift tinsel]

they're posting every few hours

[vale pine]

oh, its a team

not one person

[swift tinsel]

no I mean the builds are posting

he was doing it all himself up until this morning

[vale pine]

ahh

well, sounds very nice

if he puts in the effort

[swift tinsel]

he has a couple of coders helping with bug fixes now

[vale pine]

if he did one time 20h non stop

he rly should take a short break and sleep

[swift tinsel]

yeah he's been out for the last few hours finally sleeping

[vale pine]

sustained more than 8-12h/day is in my experience not possible ^^

[swift tinsel]

otherwise its been maybe an hour or two/three at a time

[vale pine]

if you need to work, even less

[mellow hedge]

what is the fastest delve you guys are using to complete for vet crest farming?

[calm cloud]

https://github.com/EllesmereGaming/EllesmereUI

[swift tinsel]

I'm not sure if he's got a job outside wow atm

or if he went all-in as a content creator

[vale pine]

i just give my perspective

[calm cloud]

https://github.com/EllesmereGaming/EllesmereUI/commit/5c777bb0dd614b7b8d2a66ad017269c312b1425b

[vale pine]

i hope his ui stuff comes well together

[swift tinsel]

it's been shaping up to be a fantastic all-in-one suite, and he has Cell dev help coming for his raid/party frames

[calm cloud]

seems like every commit is a new addon update rather then funneling 3-4 commits to one update

[tawny marlin]

[swift tinsel]

yes its no longer a 1.5% gain to force apex

closer to 0.2% and only in bloodlust

[vale pine]

nice

[calm cloud]

prey hunts

[swift tinsel]

if it means I don't have to maintain 3-4 addons I'm happy

[vale pine]

its still a bigger gain for dethstalker

[swift tinsel]

and it has remarkably low cpu load

[vale pine]

but ye

kinda whatever else

[swift tinsel]

is it still a priority damage gain to force apex on coup in aoe?

suppose I can poke around and look at that

[vale pine]

the new api changes make it harder to eat your cpu

elvui

[swift tinsel]

which is a good thing

[vale pine]

which was very inefficient

[mellow hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/shoo-bye-move-go-away-gif-15448765

[vale pine]

is now like 1/3 of the impact it was before

i often feel like the change to addons

[willow knoll]

Think its worth spending vet crests a bit to get 250 gear?

[swift tinsel]

Ellesmere's atm is like a few mb

[willow knoll]

asking as a clueless noob

I spent 30 uprading an item to 250 but idk if I should

[vale pine]

was simply to lower the addon fps impact

[calm cloud]

once you have a slot on max vet you can upgrade a new vet item on that slot to max just for gold

[vale pine]

size does not matter

[willow knoll]

Ohhhh

[vale pine]

what matters is cpu cycles

[willow knoll]

So it's more worth it

[calm cloud]

depends

[willow knoll]

well, at a glance I mean for e

[calm cloud]

if you drop an item for the maxed slot ye

if you drop an item for a non maxed slot and you spend all your crest its meh

[vale pine]

basically

[willow knoll]

Yeah I had like an ilevel230 dagger

and just got the preyseeker one so I upgraded it to 250

[calm cloud]

but its vet track so starting season 1 its waht ever anways

[willow knoll]

since it had haste/mastery idk

[vale pine]

"how much work does the addon need to do"
or "how much of the remaining cpu capacity shared with the game is used by addons"

[swift tinsel]

I'll have to check the acu when I get home

[vale pine]

if addons like

[swift tinsel]

it also has built-in fps/graphic performance adjustment

which is interesting

[vale pine]

cpu profilers sitll work

[vale pine]

ellesmere ui?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[vale pine]

interessting

[swift tinsel]

and it tells you exactly which settings it changes and their relative impact on performance

[vale pine]

that sounds handy

[swift tinsel]

I'm interested to tinker with it with regards to the regular and raid/bg setting split

[weary saffron]

Off topic but no one sees a spark quest available on NA right?

[upper narwhal]

Waiting for Elle's UI to fully release before I swap but from what I checked the performance is significantly better than ElvUi

Like i turned off ElvUi and gained 10 frames instantly

[jaunty heath]

i play in 4K and have no isseu with Elvui

im using luckyone UI which is dev of elvui

[brisk raptor]

no spark this week eh?

[alpine wraith]

really?

[brisk raptor]

not sure, i didn't see a quest for one anywhere

[swift tinsel]

would be funny if they give 2 sparks every other week

[gray jungle]

It’s from the PvP weekly, 100 sparks of war

[brisk raptor]

oh....wtf lol

[swift tinsel]

that...sounds off

[soft summit]

Thank god. I hated this. Wha changed? Was there an update regarding shadow tech?