subtlety

[sullen hare]

We never really know what is and isn't a bug because they keep it vague intentionally

[willow knoll]

Because once you have 5 CP if you're striking before every evi like you should

it kinda feedbacks into itself

[west shoal]

it uses the shadow technique stacks

[sullen hare]

Just wait til you see the optimization

[willow knoll]

yeah but under shadow dance you're also generating 5 stacks per strike

[sullen hare]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[willow knoll]

So if you strike before hand you're gauranteed an apex shadow on every strike basically

am i thinking of that right

during SD window I mean

[sullen hare]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[willow knoll]

No I know the flow of it

I do it anyways I'm just idk

disecting it in my head

Do you guys worry about it with SS

AOE I mean

Like do you just SS - BP - SS BP etc.

Or can you do like SS- BP BP if you use shadow techniques

[north sedge]

which neckless is the best for the amani renow Item?

[lilac stag]

If you don’t have 684 haste, the one with haste. Vers also not great for us.

[lilac stag]

3 targets like the !aa command says

[willow knoll]

I took that as you don't want to strike over 3 targets which seems kinda obvious

I more meant do you worry about Apex in general in AOE

And if you do is it ever worth considering double BP

[willow pulsar]

Did Danse Macabre change?

[thorny wagon]

Its a nice little optimisation but will it make a huge difference in overall dps ? No, not rly. Just do it if it becomes muscle memory but dont sweat about it.

[sullen hare]

Hello, attack's cat or small child

[willow knoll]

Aight aight. My brain just wandered over to that because I noticed it.

[thorny wagon]

I agree with this mostly.

[lilac stag]

In AoE you just full send BP as often as possible. Including double BP

[thorny wagon]

Oh wait he meant using the Apex proc in general ?

Yeah ofc you do

Why would you not

[lilac stag]

[thorny wagon]

I was thinking he was talking about doing the extra ss for proc

[lilac stag]

“And if you do is it ever worth considering double BP”

[thorny wagon]

Do i open 3 old vapes to scueeze out the last drops into a 4. one or do i wait 8 hours and go to the store.

Hmm

[weak vector]

thats some next level addiction shit I used to do while Id go through nicotine withdrawals

[thorny wagon]

Yeah 8 hours are kinda hard ngl

[weak vector]

I quit 2 years ago but man it was hard

[thorny wagon]

I smoked cigs for 10 years and am vaping for another 10 now

I can empty a 9000 Tornado Vape in 2-3 Days

I think im cooked

[weak vector]

its not too late brother

[thorny wagon]

I know but its the least of my addiction problmens tbh

Hooked on SSRIs for 6 years and Benzos for 4

[north sedge]

thx

[thorny wagon]

Do you feel that your lungs recovered ? I have bad chest burn from time to time

[pastel quarry]

For this macro, is there a way to make the icon NOT light up unless we have combo points (like how Eviscerate is dark)

[valid tartan]

do #showtooltip Black Powder

[pastel quarry]

absolute legend, thank you

[steel horizon]

is there any addon thats able to make an aura glow when at a certain # of stacks? apparently its not possible with arcui

want something to make coup glow at 4 stacks

[dim roost]

I got a quick question, I was running Mythics earlier and I noticed that Tricks of the Trade was not following the 1 hour duration from trickster, is that normal?

[lean rover]

Is it okay to sim with raidbots? Or is anything broken right now like trinkets?

[steep raven]

What duration increase we are looking for from haste? (Number not haste rating/%)

[grizzled bay]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limber cape]

AoE we do SS or FoK to generate CPs?

[limber cape]

❤️

[ornate lake]

Bruh we no longer use shadow strike as the main builder in dance on both aoe and single target?

[steep raven]

This is only aoe

[ornate lake]

Yeah in aoe we use shuriken storm as the primary builder on >2 targets right?

Even in dance

[steep raven]

Yes

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[ornate lake]

Last season i remember we using shadowstrike in dance irrespective of whether dance or not

[steep raven]

This got gutted

[lucid frost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quaint lodge]

Does anybody know the difference in prio damage between evis and black powder

[steep raven]

Just look at the tooltip

[ornate lake]

Prio has been dead a long while lol

[fair phoenix]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[fair phoenix]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[quaint lodge]

Yeah but do you know the percent difference

[steep raven]

There's never a situation where you should press Evis over BP on 2+ targets

For dmg diff, just check tooltip

Ofc you press Coup De Grace over Evis or BP in any situation

[fair stump]

Why is 18% haste the sweetspot?

[quaint lodge]

Its a breakpoint that allows you to fit two more globals into shadow dance

Thats all

[fair stump]

I see, thanks

I thought it had to do with sectec cd

[quaint lodge]

Partially that as well, but mainly the gcds you can fit

[shrewd lantern]

play deathstalker

secret singular funnel tech

[steep raven]

Wouldn't wish that to my enemy

[shrewd lantern]

I wish it on anyone who says to press evis over bp in sepulcher.

[brisk onyx]

how much haste value = 1% now?

[quaint lodge]

roughly ~30 from just checking my gear

[bright sundial]

hello guys im having trouble wraping my head around our last apex casue half the time it doesnt proc then sometimes if i have a proc and use ST it gets rid of it and not refund cps?

[swift tinsel]

premeditation bug blocks the refund

[bright sundial]

o7

[static fjord]

is sub doing okay dps wise?

not top tier but atleast decent enough for dungeons

is what i want to know

[plush roost]

Subs actually very good in dungeons

Good aoe

[tawny marlin]

Been topping the charts as sub in m0's

[echo sage]

Is there an addon to track Ancient Arts? It isn't in the default CD manager

[tribal blade]

playing my splits rogue as sin

feels really good in dungeons if you have 1 person doing 0 dps

and stuff lives longer

[cosmic crescent]

If you turn on spell alert opacity up to something visible it will put 2 big skid mark looking things on your screen when you have ancient arts up. It will block other things but at least tracks it since cooldown manager doesn’t have it

[oak hearth]

Anyone have a good cooldown tracker for BCDM or anything? Atrocity's is shit and doesn't show supercharged combo points lmao

[chrome palm]

Isn’t bettercdm a cooldown tracker

[maiden oar]

ayije cdm does show supercharged ones now

wasnt on wowup before but it is now

can just uninstall it and dl the version from wowup

[oak hearth]

fr? thank god. shit was pissing me off

[cyan saddle]

any way to change the color of the ancient arts aura thing

[tribal blade]

just cry when it procs in a dark area and you miss it

[cyan saddle]

so continue the same behavior. Got it!

[tribal blade]

(no idea)

i imagine not, but who knows

[cyan saddle]

we are the only class/spec that has it black, right?

[junior ether]

it's insane shit

i missed it yesterday in dungeon like 4 out of 10 times

😢

[tribal blade]

nah it's a direct copy of WW's blackout kick proc

no wait it might be darker than that you're right

hrm not sure

cba to log onto my WW to check

[barren plume]

Do we fok in ST when we have the crit buff up over a BS? I remember in tww s1 we did curious if still the same

[narrow shadow]

This is sub. Might want to ask in assa channel.

[bright sundial]

what question so arts if used with evis makes an evis clone, and bp into bp clone what about ST? just wondering

[tribal blade]

it will clone the phys portion of sectec

[bright sundial]

lmao

[tribal blade]

kinda unsurprising it's working like that because cold blood initially worked like that too

till they fixed it

[bright sundial]

and one more thing should i learn the strike optimization with arts or is that a bug?

[tribal blade]

it's not a bug, it's how the apex works

[bright sundial]

oh gottcha just seems weird to use a "builder" at max cps

[jaunty heath]

Surely they fix it

[feral remnant]

just to make sure i understand correctly, if shadow blades is on cd, i hold each shadow dance for secret tech?

[tribal blade]

correct

[feral remnant]

ah kk, the downtime feels a lil awkward so im trying to hold it haha

[green torrent]

am I understanding AA correctly? When it procs, we use a finisher but then shadowstrike next even if full cp?

[spare totem]

I would like to know thus too

[green torrent]

I've just been reading chats here about it, there doesn't seem to be any mention in guides unless I missed it

[sour horizon]

as is tradition, my healer alts have all the luck

[brisk onyx]

[sour horizon]

ghost chicken is great!

[kind edge]

if you can double finisher you should do it, if after that you still inside dance, you strike and you got full points but AA didnt proced, you strike again and you will proc AA, then double finisher again, repeat.

someone correct me if im wrong.

[hallow matrix]

That’s wrong - inside dance, if you have 5+ shadow technique stacks and the AA buff isn’t up, you strike. Just keep following that condition check

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[dry plank]

WW blackout kick proc you could track via cdm, and rogue not because fuk rogue 🙂

[kind edge]

you are right, i guess what i said makes sense only with shadow blades

[tribal blade]

🙂

[hallow matrix]

I don’t even know if that’s correct - maybe @vale pine can confirm?

[kind edge]

well, i tested it and it works that way, with shadow blades you just get a ton of shadow techniques

[tribal blade]

this sounds all correct, only problem is you don't just strike at full CP in dance and proc the apex

UNLESS you have 5 sht stored

if you strike at full CP and are under 5 sht it's a waste

[vale pine]

The !aa bot command is correct

[kind edge]

yes bro, i was missing that part

[vale pine]

Even tho, the optimization seems very optional on trickster

[cyan saddle]

How you get this

[vale pine]

#1065728795455266888 message

^ for reference

[spiral needle]

what does very optional mean

[vale pine]

it means

it seems like there is no real gain or loss in the sim currently

it is a clear win on deathstalker

[spiral needle]

So as far as you can tell, doing it is aroudn 0% instead of the 1.5% people used to drop?

for trickster~

[vale pine]

some sim updates and bugfixes shifted it

its something to observe in the sim

as i mentioned in the post

[spiral needle]

hope it stays that way, it seems like unintentional design to SS at max CPs

[vale pine]

having a low impact, means you don't need to do it

[spiral needle]

yea, main concern is what % gain/loss is, 1-2% can be a kill or a wipe in Mythic

[vale pine]

on the other hand

there is not much to optimize

[spiral needle]

it'd be nice to take shadow tech back off having to track though

[vale pine]

i would not skip it as "useless" for now

apex is something that, because of design, can lead to some optimization which feel unnatural

[spiral needle]

holding sblades already feels pretty unnatural

dev so insistent on CDs never aligning

[sour horizon]

M0 last boss in Windrunner Spire

[fallow nimbus]

Sub plays so smooth and "switch brain off" without the strike for AA

[vale pine]

thats one design constraint of the spec

[fallow nimbus]

Like you can watch all of the boss/m+ pull and even look what your friends are doing wrong

[vale pine]

cooldowns are designed to not align to make the player "figure it out"

tho its a lot easier

you have 20 sec cooldown

[spiral needle]

do any other specs have to deal with that

cause it's very silly to me

[vale pine]

and your major cooldown is 90

given that both is static

your options are limited

either you hold your major cooldown, or you hold your 20 sec cooldown

[spiral needle]

I know, I just think it's very silly that sub is for all intents and purposes a 100-105 CD class during longer fights

[vale pine]

your 90 sec cooldown would basically become a 100 sec cooldown if you hold it

but your 20 sec cooldown

has two charges

so you don't lose time for holding

thats pmuch it

the holding also gives you time to get another charge up

so you can use 2x dance during blades

[spiral needle]

Yea I get the logic, I just don't understand the dev thinking behind it

[vale pine]

well its friction

[spiral needle]

what other specs have that kind of friction though, I'm genuinely ignorant on that

[vale pine]

basically, they want you to be uncomfortable and need to think about it

[fallow nimbus]

Some have

Some don't have cooldowns at all

[vale pine]

we asked for the cooldowns to be aligned better

in df

cooldown management back then was

lets say it this way

i spend ~300h iterating on the apl to make it work

[spiral needle]

i was a big dust hater

[vale pine]

and it was the only tier we had a spreadsheet breaking all cooldowns down on a per fight basis

[ruby girder]

A lot of specs have mini and big cds, usually mini being half cd.

They often run into the situation where if you cant cast the mini asap, you have to hold it. Not the same but similar situation

The only way to fix it would be to have the mini be slightly shorter cd. You could look at rogue that way

[fallow nimbus]

Havoc dh with meta, hunt, eyebeam and essence break

[vale pine]

the cooldown managemant back then would have been easy to fix

[ruby girder]

Add flexibility*

[vale pine]

the main culprit was 2 major cooldown

one with 90 sec

the other with 120

[shrewd lantern]

havoc was more chaotic imo in tww s1

[vale pine]

so the only thing that needed to be done was to make both 90

[shrewd lantern]

when you also added in the mastery from felscarred

[spiral needle]

Yea, I just have a hot take that SD CD should align with Sblades

[vale pine]

and the 300h would be probably 15h max

but because it wasn't

we had a tier people would look at subtlety and say

"no way i learn that"

and just as the next xpac come in

[shrewd lantern]

most people just waited for stealthi

[vale pine]

the dev team decide to purge the talent causing the complication entirely

[shrewd lantern]

to math out dust timings

[spiral needle]

dust was extremely complicated, but also pretty OP

being able to move CDs around was very powerful

[vale pine]

people love to say something is op

[shrewd lantern]

it was only op in the context

of the bosses it was good on

[vale pine]

execute is op

funnel is op

funnel is so op, they purged it one day to the other from subtlety

yet, looking at TWW/DF

[supple pawn]

how grief is elusiveness over cheat

[spiral needle]

lol uldir

[vale pine]

some specs gained funnel capacity thats quite strong

[spiral needle]

buried sub for multiple seasons just because funnel was broken on a mid difficulty fight

[vale pine]

spread cleave is op

[shrewd lantern]

elu is a pvp talent

[supple pawn]

ah

[vale pine]

you usually have one boss per raid (on average)

[shrewd lantern]

idk the gain of cheat is too good

outside of super high keys

[vale pine]

spread cleave specs outdo everyone else by a noticable margin

yet

we still have spread cleave specs

[shrewd lantern]

though i think cheat did pick up popularity in pvp

[vale pine]

if its so op

[shrewd lantern]

before blizz created evasive manuevers

[vale pine]

why is it not purged?

[shrewd lantern]

as an honor talent

that talent came out same patch feint got taken off global

[spiral needle]

dust brought insane value for smolderon and breaking the druid guy's shield

[vale pine]

think about it, if everything thats op rly got changed

we wouldn't have many of the current niches

[spiral needle]

probably deleted it so as to not create future balancing headaches

[vale pine]

which still exist

the reality is

something might be OP under a certain condition

[shrewd lantern]

tindral shield tbh

[vale pine]

but the dev team decides if this is a problem

[shrewd lantern]

wasnt as big for most guilds progging

[vale pine]

if its on subtlety -> it usually is

on other specs/classes -> usually not

[shrewd lantern]

by the time an average ce guild reached tindral the shield just broke

[spiral needle]

well, atleast there is nothing to nuke in this version of sub

unless people get offended at black powder doing some decent lifting

[shrewd lantern]

i find it more boring

than s3 sub

personally

dropping nuclear bombs every 90 was funny

[spiral needle]

sub accidently being really good on the last 2 bosses of manaforge despite terrible ST sims was pretty funny

[dawn heron]

I like not having too many SD macros personally

[vale pine]

To be fair, subtlety remains the burst spec on rogue

[shrewd lantern]

st sims have never

[vale pine]

and thats also a niche

[shrewd lantern]

reflected raid performance

ever

[vale pine]

so we have this

towards Midnight

[shrewd lantern]

like anytime people post patchwerk sims

[vale pine]

The problem is, we still compare it to TWW/DF

[shrewd lantern]

before a tier starts

its never remotely true

[vale pine]

when the reality is, everythig is worse now

[shrewd lantern]

of what specs end up good

[vale pine]

subtlety before Midnight might be more fun

in terms of gameplay

[shrewd lantern]

technically the only boss that was truly patchwerk last tier

[vale pine]

or gives you more decisions to make

[shrewd lantern]

was frac

[vale pine]

but

[shrewd lantern]

and if you really wanted to minmax you played assa for it

[vale pine]

frac was tuned so shit

why bother

[shrewd lantern]

ik but

[dawn heron]

does assa have stonger execute atm ?\

[shrewd lantern]

lets be real how often is a patchwerk boss

[vale pine]

yes

[shrewd lantern]

a real mechanical boss

almost never

[vale pine]

it also has funnel

[dawn heron]

🫡

[vale pine]

and probably stronger aoe, but i can't judge that

[shrewd lantern]

i played entire last tier without any dance macros

[dawn heron]

[shrewd lantern]

except one ungabunga one to blow the entire load

[vale pine]

to come back to midnight subtlety

i think its within the "better" specs

[shrewd lantern]

maghar blades prism dance

basically

[vale pine]

surely, there are things to improve or fix

but the rotation has a decent flow

[shrewd lantern]

maghar probs mid now

that we arent literal nukes

[vale pine]

can't say the same for other classes

[vale pine]

you didn't rly need a macro last tier

[shrewd lantern]

yeah idk what people are talking about

needing multiple dance macros

[vale pine]

they probably refer to macros now

which are a consequence of design

[shrewd lantern]

no it was in reference to now

[vale pine]

there is an easy fix for it

[shrewd lantern]

ig now you can have dance sectech

or dance storm

[vale pine]

yes

but the need for an macro is a fixable problem

[shrewd lantern]

this saves you like .1 of a gcd

maybe im used to things tbh i never felt a need to macro an ability to dance

else lose a dance global

[vale pine]

which can be enough to matter

[dawn heron]

it still feels bad tho knowing you can do better by pressing a macro

[vale pine]

because of this

it did not matter in tww/df

[shrewd lantern]

yeah idk i've checked logs and i still seemingly hit

the first ability in 0.1

even no macro

unless strike due to stance delay

[vale pine]

thats correct

[shrewd lantern]

[vale pine]

you essentially lose

roughly your latency

if you are fast

moment

#1065728795455266888 message

you can see my testing there

[shrewd lantern]

yep

i've had strike go off despite my dance ended on my buffs

the second i presse

[shrewd lantern]

i've actually felt the most nervewracking pixel perfect gcd shit was rogue v rogue at the other end

and sometimes you just fall way behind if other guy lands step disarm or step cheap first

[tribal blade]

yeah rogue vs rogue is super stressful

[vale pine]

there is an easy fix to it

blizz could basically just round it up to the next gcd always

because w/e how you design it

you will have a certain threashold

atm you are like

lets keep it simple for the sake of understanding

just as long as your expected input lag + human reaction time

so you will get haste to the 0.x sec that it extends

that might be 0.4

or 0.5

you would need 1 more sec to get one additional gcd

because people are sometimes slower than that

or start dancing before gcd ends

you might want to add more haste

so the current system migth be

[graceful crown]

i like the flow with 18-22% haste right now feels good

[alpine wraith]

sub lowkey saying git gud

but also it is weird for many

[vale pine]

get 650 haste if you have good reflexes and low latency
get 700 haste if you have mediocre reflexes or not good latency
get 750 haste if you have bad reflexes or rly bad latency

so you end up with this cascade of recommendations

if you round it up

you still have the same haste breakpoints

[alpine wraith]

those are so funny but real

[vale pine]

but only ONE value you need to hit

because

each of the above changes noticably

get 650 haste if you have good reflexes and low latency
Changes to: You got 0.8 sec to hit your last gcd
get 700 haste if you have mediocre reflexes or not good latency
Changes to: You got 0.7 sec to hit your last gcd
get 750 haste if you have bad reflexes or rly bad latency
Changes to: You got 0.6 sec to hit your last gcd

All of them would suddenly have a time budget for you instead of you "just making it"

[shrewd lantern]

so haste is a skill issue

[dawn heron]

[jaunty heath]

And that 18% in wowhead is how much haste

[ornate lake]

Guys so now and then I end up with a situation where

1> blades is more than 30-40 second away
2>second charge of dance is 15 second away
3>sec tech is available

Should I hold for 15 seconds so I have 2 charges for secret technique, or just send technique with 1 dance?

[ornate lake]

Pin it

[jaunty heath]

I was aiming at 16% and than i saw 18 on wowhead and was verz madge

[potent heath]

Évery item in Mastery/Haste for that

RIP crit

[vale pine]

i mean, it was just one example

because we atm are roughly around the 650-700 haste area

[limpid sage]

If you don’t need the blades exactly right then and there you don’t lose anything by delaying, unless you’ll miss out on a blades cast/uptime in the other end

[vale pine]

and we use haste to the point "we can barely fit the extra spell"

and add maybe a slight bit more on top just in case

[limpid sage]

Or wait I misunderstood I think

[vale pine]

you just send dance

with secret ofc

[limpid sage]

Yeah you’re not really trading anything with those exact timers

[vale pine]

30 or 40 sec before blades

is way to long

to consider holding

[limpid sage]

Do you know approx how much of our dmg is in blades windows now Fuu?

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

I read somewhere that you hold dance with sectech 10s before blades

But idk

[vale pine]

yes

10 sec

not

30

or 40

i talked about it ealier

but i can repeat it

you basically have dance every 20 sec

and blades every 90

so you need to delay one of them to fit

dance you get ready again at 100 sec

so you have the decision

either delay blades by 10 sec

or delay dance

if you delay blades

your blades becomes a 100 sec cooldown

however

if you delay dance

dance has 2 charges

so you get progress towards the next charge while waiting

so logically

[limpid sage]

I’d imagine there’s gonna be a few times where it makes sense to send the dance+sectec

[vale pine]

it makes more sense to just delay dance + secret for blades

[jaunty heath]

Btw fuu how we play 2min trinket as sub

[limpid sage]

Like if the 3rd blades are gonna be sent at 190 exactly anyway

Or if you have add spawn at the time of holding

[vale pine]

depends on the trinket

if it does dps

just send it on cd

[jaunty heath]

I mean puzzle and other one

[vale pine]

you line them up with blades typically

tho

[wild vine]

Fuu typing like a real outlaw main, changing specs I see

[frigid prawn]

I wonder what the uptime of dance is going to be in m+

[vale pine]

i need to catch up to guy and others in post count, i am super low on it, just search for it

[jaunty heath]

Kek

[vale pine]

oh wait...

[alpine wraith]

fuu needs to slam more posters

[vale pine]

i need ~3500 more posts

(3444 if we count the last posts in)

[vale pine]

depends on how you measure it tbh

[clever herald]

With a stopwatch ofc

[vale pine]

there is nothing increasing your uptime with more targets

so baseline, your dance uptime is just as high as in st

[alpine wraith]

depends on your first dance snapper

if you get lots it might be higher

[vale pine]

so roughly 42%

or well lets say 40-45%

but m+ has diffrent constraints

[jaunty heath]

I crafted 1000 hearty food main stat now I feel cooked when I see we want more haste than advertised

[vale pine]

let me try to explain what i mean

[alpine wraith]

main stat foot is fine

[jaunty heath]

Not if I lack haste gear:D

[alpine wraith]

as you get more gear getting to haste breakpoints is easier

[vale pine]

if you used details in m+ you know your dps ended up quite high

but details only measured dps while in combat

so it cuts out damage during downtime

e.g. when moving between packs

you could change this setting to be absolute, including the downtime

[jaunty heath]

Before raid open i craft dagger with some vet embelish piece, should help

[vale pine]

but nobody did, because you know... people like big numbers

but this downtime between packs

[eternal abyss]

Fuu any chance you can make a min-max rotation youtube guide?

[ornate lake]

So if I understand correctly, our goal should be to always cover blades with 2 dance charges.

If blades is not coming off cd anytime soon, we can send sectech with a single dance charge

🤔

[eternal abyss]

Such details dont appear on wowhead, or im simply blind.

[vale pine]

maybe when i get a new laptop, i kinda hope i can get one soon, but prices are insane rn

[lilac stag]

Apple Neo time

[vale pine]

my hardware is rly my main problem with anything video/recording related

[vale pine]

i actually thought of getting a m4 air

if i can snap one when people sell them

the neo won't run wow well probably

[lilac stag]

neo getting surprisingly good performance reviews. Apple really trying to get people off windows

[vale pine]

lets quick continue here

so this means

if you, just like in details

only count the time you are actively in combat, you get higher dance uptime

but also, if you go with overall time

you migth end up with lower dance uptime

because it happens that you sit on 2 charges

while moving between groups

[vale pine]

if anything is missing let me know, i can always add details if they help explain the spec.

[vale pine]

let me quick explain my thoughts on it

the main problem is, the neo is quite expensive, it starts at 700€

world of warcraft has a native arm/mac port so its not the main culprit

however the ram size is 8GB

wow on my laptop already writes in swap, and i play with low settings

swap files are slow, so performance won't be good

[potent heath]

All is good pls ?

[vale pine]

also means, screen recording won't be very good

[lilac stag]

$599 for what it can do is crazy good (student / home productivity). Yeah if you need more it’s an air

I’d grab one for travel and business use vs any of the win budget laptops

[vale pine]

compared to this, you can get a barely used m4 air for ~600-700€ (i contacted these two sellers but probably already sold them)

or a brand new m4 air for ~800-850

[lilac stag]

Did you look at Apple student pricing?

[vale pine]

i assume its 100 off

[lilac stag]

If you can manage that they sometimes have good deals

[vale pine]

also both of them will thermal throttle fast

because they are fan-less

[lilac stag]

Ye

[vale pine]

i don't know if you can switch between active time and absolute time in the blizz damage meter

details is basically just a skin on it now

i was referencing to how it worked before the addon purge

[alpine wraith]

you want the main stat enchant unless you are just using that one because it is dirt cheap

[velvet fog]

With all these dumb down classes i can finally play this spec again 😛 Thanks for the rotation breakdown Fuu! i enjoy it

[vale pine]

no problem

[potent heath]

Cheap actually yes

[potent heath]

The main is like 20k lmao

[eternal abyss]

Just saw the msg sorry… well I saw you explaining stuff about holding dance+sec tec to line up with blades or the other way around.
I am not sure I saw these details in wowhead, but I could be wrong because I am on phone atm and Wowhead isnt that well optimized for a small screen😂

[tribal blade]

hopefully petrified root goes down in price sometime soon

[jaunty hamlet]

Trying to learn rogue and was wondering what poisons do we run 😮

[tribal blade]

it's extremely expensive to craft wep enchants and you barely make a profit on the AH

[fallow nimbus]

If these don't drop in m+ then it will be hell

[tribal blade]

yeah it's really bad atm

[tepid trellis]

as sub its Instant + atrophic/numbing depending on which of the two you have specced

[jaunty hamlet]

What do you prefer?

[tribal blade]

i'm stuck on lvling enchanting atm because i don't want to drop that much gold

[tepid trellis]

for raids atrophic for m+ you can go either really

[tribal blade]

done a few wep enchants so far

[fallow nimbus]

My tank was yapping how many roots he got in our m0 runs and i was like "there are no roots" until my 3rd char looted like 20

[tribal blade]

pure depression

[jaunty heath]

I misslick buy 33 of the new wep enchant yesterday

[tribal blade]

oh yeah it's super rng, i got a lot on my main and way less on my alt

[tribal blade]

oh NO

[fallow nimbus]

Good ol missclick

[tribal blade]

that's like 600k+ gold

[jaunty heath]

Its not even easy to resell, you put it on ah and wont sell more than one before undercut

[potent heath]

Oof

[tribal blade]

yeah you can sell em, but they don't insta sell

like other stuff

[jaunty heath]

I think it was much more since I bought the one above for double the price

I wanted 3 and was tired 😄

[tribal blade]

we had this same issue at the start of TWW with profaned lockbox things

[jaunty heath]

I will have to ench my stuff for next week raid and than the m+ again, hard to say if it go up or not

[tribal blade]

and then blizz implemented ways to make them cheaper

so we'll see it happen at some point if prices stay crazy

[jaunty heath]

There is so many enchs tho like shoulders for example wtf

Avoidance ench for 20k

[tribal blade]

yeah but they removed enchants from wrists and back

[jaunty heath]

I did not look at it yet, using only dps on slots i gonna keep for raid

I think im close to have spend what my guild boosted last season

As I crafted on all my alts too

[tribal blade]

i'm making my gold back

will break 9mil sometime soon

after spending a fuckton on housing decor lol

[jaunty heath]

I use to hussle in wow when I was Young but i rather just buy token now

[tribal blade]

i pay for my sub with gold so i try hard to keep up

[lilac stag]

So it’s cheaper to buy enchants than the mats. I can also make them for you.

[tribal blade]

i guess if i'm at least making my gold back it's fine

need to chekc

[lilac stag]

Right now folks are leveling enchanting and you can basically craft the r2 weapon enchant for 2000 more than what it sells for

so that’s about 12 crafts to get max skill

[tribal blade]

oh right i'm blocked by concentration haha

[lilac stag]

crystals won’t drop as hard as TWW since you can blow them up

The cheap enchants you can make 200-300g on if you’re lucky

[tribal blade]

oh actually r1 of 1 enchant is going for not a bad amount

[lilac stag]

The weapon enchant? It was 4000g difference yesterday

[tribal blade]

nvm i'd be losing gold

[lilac stag]

just buy r2 at that point.

[tribal blade]

yeah

[lilac stag]

My hopium is resourcefulness

I’ve gotten 3 crystals and 1 petrified over 12 crafts. Not amazing

[tribal blade]

i've gotten no resourcefulness procs on any wep enchants i've done so far

[lilac stag]

we don’t know what’s being stockpiled so that first week could be surplus’s or famine for stuff like the blue gem

and if the branch is like tinderbox and your gated by it. Good luck

hoping delves drop them at a decent clip

I’m actually shocked how many of the enchants are selling week1

I won’t craft any of the armor stuff right now. Maybe some rings since those always have use

[tribal blade]

yeah it's kinda weird people are buying the good enchants right nwo

must be people who are crafting with their spark

[lilac stag]

I think in have 10 formulas that still have first craft because fuck spending that much now

[tribal blade]

yeah i also don't wanna burn that much gold

[lilac stag]

I did one conc craft for my dagger.

Rest have been sold

Engineering made me more gold now than anything else

Like sub rogue, avg player doesn’t get engineering and just avoids it

[glacial ore]

How are you making gold on eng ? One of my guildies told me the profession was useless this xpac so a bit curious

[lilac stag]

You have to know what’s needed and by whom

[glacial ore]

Cashing on profession tools then ?

[lilac stag]

Tools are ok but conc limited

[fossil panther]

Hello, good morning.
Number wise, what are we looking at break points for secondaries?

Just got 90, will start working on initial gearing this week.

[lilac stag]

684-700 haste. Then take mastery/crit gear.

[fossil panther]

Appreciate!

[marble sail]

Ilvl>anything

[alpine wraith]

yea just do the wq when you can m0

do renown grinds to get 4 champion items

craft a veteran or two items one or two with embellish depending if you craft spark MH

craft mh with spark if you are use you are going to play sub or assa

[marble sail]

All u need to do if u wanna minmax is gear via wq, prey, m0, save crests for after hc

No reason to craft this week

[tepid raven]

Yeah I wouldn’t craft yet you’re unlikely to gain much from it

[limpid sage]

that's literally everything on the market ye xd

only thing that is kinda uncontested is certain tmog

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

there is no world where you dont craft might as well do it now but yea if you are tight on gold you can wait until things get cheaper

[limpid sage]

what if they bug out darkmoon hunt and it starts reducing your secondaries

[alpine wraith]

you can use rot

[limpid sage]

damn checkmate

[tepid raven]

I mean why craft the veteran items this week next week you do more m0s then fill missing slots with veteran pieces

[tribal blade]

it took me ~30k gold to craft dagger on my alt rogue

[alpine wraith]

both are momentary anyway

[tribal blade]

our RL isn't letting us craft on our mains yet

[tepid raven]

I just don’t see a point to optimise m0s with crafts

[alpine wraith]

it is just to take less time

but also yea if you dont want it is ok

just some crafts are better on some places because m0 stats suck

[tribal blade]

yeah if you want to hard carry shitters in M0s if you're pugging

[alpine wraith]

so i can do engi or LW craft to get good stats

and even if it drops i can trade to my guildie

in a 5 leather stack

we kinda decided on that

that is also why we did prey farm to get veteran before doing m0 world tour

it is super fine to skip crafts btw for now

[cosmic dust]

Is it possible to predict which spec will be strong in the raid? Do I need to learn outlaw

[lilac stag]

To get stuff done faster. Dagger is safe unless you’re riding the outlaw 🚂

[tribal blade]

if you've played enough you can full send everything with adventurer crests

[lilac stag]

The wasting crests on alts to save crests on main is way too much work

[hollow spear]

If you're pushing WR with your guild you're probably holding your craft

If you're WR1000 and your RL tells you to optimize for that, they're a little delusional imo

[vagrant thorn]

I'm not world rank anything, I just pug m+ but I still enjoy doing things optimally

in pugland you need every advantage to claw yourself above the rest of the unwashed masses 🙂

[autumn condor]

Probably better off spending your time getting out of pug land rather than optimising for pug land, but you do you king 👑

[tribal blade]

i would agree, but i think my RL putting hard rules has probably saved some people doing stupid stuff

[spare quiver]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[grand wyvern]

i am not sure how it works in high WR land but my guild expects me to do m0, if I can't align with guildies schedule i must pug

[lilac stag]

Pug land is fine. Different challenges. Most pug optimization is ILVL which isn’t all that different than guild raiding.

[spare quiver]

!ancient arts

[lilac stag]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[lilac stag]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[vagrant thorn]

no I enjoy that world 🙂

[lilac stag]

@nova cairn 3k for mount and vaults to meet vault requirements for CE. My schedule outside of raid doesn’t allow for many premades.

so yeah optimizing pugs made those keys smother and less time in LFG

[autumn condor]

Ya, you enjoy that besties

[lilac stag]

it’s doing what need to do so I can raid with the folks I enjoy raiding with

Or are you just trying to be dense

[nova cairn]

[autumn condor]

I don’t have to try, I was born this way baby 😎

[nova cairn]

WOAH

WHO IS THIS RUBY

[autumn condor]

We’ve done this before

[lilac stag]

Gottem

[nova cairn]

I have unc brain

I remember nothing

[lilac stag]

ok I’ve created enough chaos this morning.

[autumn condor]

Idk I’ve not been in outlaw for years so this is probably fair

[nova cairn]

Ye that's fair

[lilac stag]

also hi @nova cairn

[nova cairn]

Hiiii @lilac stag

[lilac stag]

still playing wow?

[tribal blade]

geez get a room

😉

[supple pawn]

maybe dumb question

do we prefer sub or outlaw loot spec

[soft summit]

How do you check to see how many stacks of shadow technique one has? And just to confirm, ancient arts is the black smoke thing on the sides of your character ya?

[sullen hare]

Sub

[supple pawn]

kk ty

[shy scarab]

You can track it

And yes

[exotic gorge]

What sort of dps we seeing in m+ atm?

Overall/ peak

[swift tinsel]

It’s certainly peak

[alpine wraith]

big peak

[mint swift]

0 dps

According to mythic + logs so far

The same as every other spec

Because mythic + isn’t out yet

[exotic gorge]

50k ok? Sorry M0??

[short radish]

yeah that's fine

👍

hope this helps

[mint swift]

There we go
Sorry I just wanna be that one “Uhm actually” guy cause
Idk
My brains rotting atm

[supple pawn]

@mint swift wtf

i recognise you from the

hunter cord

[mint swift]

Yes

It is I
Rat

[wraith girder]

Am I correct in thinking SS/Evis in 1 target Shuriken Storm/BP in 2+?

[calm cloud]

hey, anybody got anwser for this ? #subtlety message

[autumn condor]

#subtlety-faq message

• Cast Coup to spend combo points when you have 6 or more.
• Cast Eviscerate on 1 target or Black Powder if there is more than 1 target with 6 or more combo points.
• Cast Shuriken Storm on 2 or more targets outside of Shadow Dance, 3 or more while Shadow Dance is active to build combo points.
• Cast Shadow Strike/Backstab to build combo points.

[wraith girder]

Thank you!

[brisk raptor]

!aa

[wicked jolt]

Apex talent optimization (Trickster):

• Is shadow dance up? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Do you have 5 or more stacks of shadow techniques? - :ballot_box_with_check: Yes
• Is ancient arts up? - :x: No
  Use Shadowstrike (even if on full cp).
  Note: Only up to 3 targets.

[autumn condor]

Thank Eleem

[wraith girder]

Thanks @hazy breach!!

[lilac stag]

They started here. Take the rodent back.

[wet anvil]

!macreo

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac pendant]

Any uses for engineering as sub rogue? i just pick it for revive and some gadgets.

[alpine wraith]

the crafts are kinda nice as you can get 1 stat gear

but unlikely they are bis

[silk fiber]

I have a dumb question. Is there ever a world where you take the 2 point energy talent right above Thistle tea for very heavy AoE Situations? It seemed to make it play much smoother while leveling and my single target has gone up with the correct build, but my aoe seems to have gone down a bit.

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[humble rover]

how do we even track ancient arts

[autumn condor]

!apex

[wicked jolt]

You cannot track the apex talents Ancient Arts through the cooldown manager. However they do show up via the ingame like THIS. If you cannot see them you must go into your settings and increase your Spell Alert Opacity. Some popular Addons (like ElvUI) disable these by default.

[vale pine]

professions have no real combat benefits

[humble rover]

dear lord

how much of a dmg diff is the ancient art minmax?

[lilac stag]

track your sht stacks

[swift tinsel]

~1.5%

[lilac stag]

1.5% ish so it’s good, but like most things not mandatory

raiders kill for and freak out over loot council for a 1.5% trinket.

[humble rover]

just tried on doll, seems very hard to manage wihout fail...

[swift tinsel]

If you watch your shadow techniques stacks during dance with a little bit of practice it becomes pretty easy to manage

[lilac stag]

Are you always amazing at the first time you try something?

[humble rover]

yes

[marble sail]

There is nothing else to manage atm so its not hard once u get used to it 🥀

[calm cloud]

ofc, and if you are not you never try again

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bs-memes-funny-kid-gif-10302293152269396732

[marble sail]

melee bm hunter aaahh spec 🥀

[lilac stag]

learn to track your sht stacks. That’s it. Or just give up after one test. You do you.

[calm cloud]

i just keep reading it as "your shit stacks" and it makes me think @lilac stag is a big meanie

[tribal blade]

@lilac stag IS a big meanie

[humble rover]

the biggest

[calm cloud]

just so im not missunderstanding, the ancient art minmax is to shadowstrike at full CP if no ancient art procc is up on 3 or less targets, IF you have 5 or more cp stored?

[tribal blade]

5 or more sht stored yeah

[calm cloud]

seems easy enough

does that change during dance?

[tribal blade]

it's only during dance

[calm cloud]

ah okay

[tribal blade]

you won't have enough CP gen outside dance to do it

or sht gen rather

[calm cloud]

my bad wnated to ask does it change OUTSIDE of dance

with vanish

[tribal blade]

nah not at all

[calm cloud]

or does rule then still apply

to only vanish on low cp and energy

yeah makes sense

[tribal blade]

yeah you can either use vanish at low CP, use it in the opener to get snd up or save it for utility/defensive value

in raid it depends on the encounter

in keys it'll almost always be used for utility/defensive

[calm cloud]

i usualy pop it after 3rd dance

when double dance shadowblade ends you usually get dance Secret Tech up again and after that dance im in a cp/energy hole

[tribal blade]

that's normal

but yeah it's quite nice to have it for that

dps wise it'll be a small difference

[calm cloud]

also other question, sometimes it feels as if im playing with delay? or if they game does not recognize my inputs? like im spaming shuriken storm and i can already start spamming black poweder with 0 CP up but the shuriken goes through evne though im not spamming it anymore? normaly spellqueue should still prio the blackpowerd in that instancen no? im wondering if its just server lack because expand start or if my system is too ass to run midnight smooth enough?

[tribal blade]

if you were in open world it's very likely world lag

the servers have been very intermittently laggy this week

to unplayable levels at times

[heady garden]

Why do the guides recommend two different weapon enchants? Surely one is better than the other and we should use 2 of it? Or are they unique proc's?

[tribal blade]

happens all the time

it's because the sim wants it

the TCs put whatever the highest simming combo will be

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[calm cloud]

not deep enough yet into retail but mainhand proccing more often can be a factor aswell that a enchant is better on higher frequence proccs?

cuz your styles usually hit with the mainhand

[heady garden]

Hmm I can see from the sim that each enchant has a 58.5% uptime, so i guess having 2 same enchants would lose like 16% uptime

makes sense

[tribal blade]

honestly not 100% sure

[heady garden]

If it even works like that, and wouldnt be two seperate instances of the buff

[calm cloud]

are there training dummies on silvermoon for aoe?

fund em

[tribal blade]

the way i understand it is if you're running 2 of the same enchant the uptime is the same, the buff is just doubled

[calm cloud]

from the 4 buffs im tracking the only one i have to react on is the sht stacks right? the rest are all passivly applied (using the coup/powder macro)

[tribal blade]

technically yes, also you might want to have your sht stacks closer to your CP bar

or at the very least put them on the right of that bar instead of the left

[gilded ferry]

why would they bring back slice and dice and keep cut to the chase?

[tribal blade]

never went anywhere

[calm cloud]

yeah that was my plan, remove the 3 other tracked buffs and place it over the shadow dance or something

[heady garden]

Yeah I dunno, I ran an advanced sim with the raw input from fuu's sheet and changed the enchant to be mainstat buff on both weapons and it's a very slight increase in damage. Obv the apl is probably different though because I don't know how to use the custom one

[calm cloud]

what fight length?

[heady garden]

5 mins

same as the sheet

[gilded ferry]

wdym?

[tribal blade]

slice and dice never left

[gilded ferry]

slice was not active last expansion

[tribal blade]

huh

yes it was

since they introduced cut to the chase we've always kept the baseline spell

if that's what you mean

so you can manually click the button if you want

[gilded ferry]

so, you could spend combopoints in slice last xpac?

[tribal blade]

yes absolutely

[gilded ferry]

i guess i completely erased that from my memory

[tribal blade]

was a common thing on some fights

like nexus king and dimmy

[gilded ferry]

this xpac came and put it again in my bars

[tribal blade]

i don't think it'll be necessary this expac because we don't work on cdr anymore

the main reason you wanted to manually hit snd during TWW was to farm cdr

but i still have the button available to hit just in case 😉

[gilded ferry]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[fallow nimbus]

If that aa thing is +-0 i won't bother but my sht stacks are close to my combopoints anyway. Without playing around it you can watch the boss fight and don't have to look at your cdm at all

[calm cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-clap-clapping-applause-gif-10184275

[tribal blade]

fuu said earlier it MIGHT not actually be a dps increase at all

which is interesting

[fallow nimbus]

We are the bm spec of rogue now

[fleet wharf]

isn't it really splitting hairs between sub and assa rn

[jaunty heath]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[fallow nimbus]

Macro coup to bp and press your other macroes (until 1. boss on use)

[tribal blade]

if you play FB sin is way easier i feel

i shouldn't say WAY easier, but on the same level if not slightly easier

[calm cloud]

which pvp skills should we use btw? im currently just using shadowstep, tricks and feint?

are they even active outside of warmode?

[tribal blade]

the only issue i'm having is kingsbane coming off cd right at the end of pulls in M0s and not knowing if i should just rip it in the next pull and desync it from DM or hold

[marble sail]

No

Pvp/warmode only

[calm cloud]

ah okay

last time i played retail was WoD and i think there they still worked in pve lulw

[calm cloud]

i usually rip any cd on cd untill like 2 packs away from boss so i have full cd rotation up

[tribal blade]

the issue is desyncing kingsbane from DM by like 20-30 seconds

and then you have to hold DM for kingsbane to come back up

this is usually not an issue in actual keys, esp higher keys when stuff lives longer

but in these 0s it's happening a lot

[calm cloud]

sounds like a non sub issue

[tribal blade]

oh yeah for sure lol

i would go ask in the red channel but it's scary in there

[calm cloud]

prob best to hold them then imo

[tribal blade]

thing is the apex empowers kingsbane now

[marble sail]

Hold it for bosses lole everything just dies instantly anyways

[calm cloud]

is assa the go to spec for m+ and raids? seen so many diffrent ppls say diffrent stuff

[marble sail]

Our ele sham held everything for bosses only

[soft summit]

So what I’m in dance, I have 5 stacks of whatever and I have ancient arts… why do I do? Eviscerate?

And if I’m in dance, but I don’t have 5 stacks of whatever, and I have ancient arts, I use shadow strike and then eviscerate?

[marble sail]

Irrelevant untill 17th

[tribal blade]

nah not necessarily, i'm just playing sin on my alt rogue atm

to practice

[calm cloud]

i mean relevant if i want to play best performing specc and want to get into it

[fleet wharf]

are you gonna dabble with outlaw at all? @tribal blade

[tribal blade]

i have it fully set up and ready to go, but honestly really don't want to

[marble sail]

Then learn all 3, they are all way to close to decide now

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/omori-memes-omori-wendy's-sir-this-is-a-wendy’s-mcdonalds-gif-10606255422517932247

[fleet wharf]

idk, looks more interesting of the rogue specs at the moment

[tribal blade]

THERE IT IS

[fleet wharf]

I wanna set it up too, but I dunno if I have it in me to lvl another alt

I JUST hit 90 on my 3rd char and it's killing me

[marble sail]

Im on my 6th atm 😭

[tribal blade]

ew gross

i just have 2

[fleet wharf]

you guys are built diff ig

[tribal blade]

because i'm sane

[marble sail]

Shadowpoint delve is so op tho

[lilac stag]

The older you get the more you just want to play assa.

[calm cloud]

idk i kinda hate outlaw. Not fitting the stealth assasin power fantasy i enjoy as an edgy boy

[marble sail]

2 chars per day during op story

[tribal blade]

hahaha the new CT is actually really fun

[calm cloud]

if i want to play fighter style i play fury

[lilac stag]

Which story haven’t they nerfed yet?

[tribal blade]

but it's been mega frustrating playing sin in 0s when shit dies insta

[marble sail]

Then just learn sub/assa 🥀

[fleet wharf]

what if I wanna keep my raidspot but still play an interesting spec?

[marble sail]

The one where u kill golems and repeat

[lilac stag]

Tank

[marble sail]

Close to 2 million xp per hour

[fleet wharf]

you know what I might actually od that this season

but isnt raidtanking worse than any dps spec?

[lilac stag]

you can control m+ and make it as challenging as you want.

raid tanking without WA should force you to pay attention and apm is usually high on 2-3 of the tanks

[marble sail]

Raid tanking is the most boring playstyle ever, m+ tanking is however awesome

[fleet wharf]

that was my impression as well

[calm cloud]

btw is prey a new thing? or was it already in previous games

[lilac stag]

I’m assuming Taunt Swap alerts are dead? Maybe not

[marble sail]

Ive been maintank and its so boring waiting for the worst dps to learn mechanics

[lilac stag]

new thing

It’s awesome

[calm cloud]

realy like it tbh, very fast for the things you get

[marble sail]

its new and its casual content

[calm cloud]

like sub 5 min for an epic

big pog

[lilac stag]

easy crest farm

[calm cloud]

is it? maxed my veteran dawncrest withit

its like 15 crest in sub 5 min

[marble sail]

its just minmax now, but its for casuals 100%

Yeye its useful rn sure

I just wish it was 10x harder

[calm cloud]

it was not as free with sub 200 ilvl gear tbh

but now i even 5 shot the hard modes kek

[trap disarming intensifies]

[lilac stag]

Nightmare starts with the season

[marble sail]

dosnt it start next week

Also thats ez too 🥀

[lilac stag]

I though it was with heroic week

[marble sail]

I mean its locked behind rep

But im gonna unlock it next week

[calm cloud]

does nightmare bring anything new?

[marble sail]

More ilvl

[calm cloud]

cur ilvl max is 250 right?

[marble sail]

Something like that

[swift tinsel]

ye maybe a little higher if you crafted

but vet caps at 250

the hard Prey gets deleted even at like 230

[calm cloud]

@tribal blade for the arts minmax,if i get a procc >evisc and i am back at full points and more then 5 stacks, in dance i then shadow strike instead of double evisc right? kinda seems counter intuetiv

[swift tinsel]

If you have the Ancient Arts buff you cast a finisher

[blissful ivy]

Are crests farmable without cap?

[calm cloud]

afaik no but not sure

[marble sail]

200 is cap, u can get like 240 with some bags from abundances

[calm cloud]

i capped to 200/200 and haven't gotten any since

[lilac stag]

Champion gear / crests

Which lets you game heroic crests a little more

[calm cloud]

did you spam random hunts or how are you getting rank 4 prey next week?

[marble sail]

U missed doing them on early access i guess

Idk

[calm cloud]

so you are currently at rank 3 with early access?

haven't bought access

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[soft summit]

And if I don’t have ancient arts. I send another shadow strike?

[swift tinsel]

if you have enough ShT stacks to proc it yes

but don't try and game stacks or wait to have enough

its a decision to make per global

trying to game the conditions vs reacting to when they're available will lead to lost/bad globals in dance

[shrewd lantern]

so were delves

[stoic carbon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[soft summit]

Sorry.. For some reason I’m finding this confusing, So in shadow dance if I have ancient arts I send a finisher. If I don’t have ancient arts I send a shadow strike. Don’t bother trying to game stacks?

[delicate rover]

It’s silly but I’m having so much fun as sub using dh visuals with the new nightelf war glaive swords

It’s like everything I wanted from
Dh without the transformations

And shadow clones for whatever reason

[swift tinsel]

that' the gist of it, yeah

[marble sail]

If u were fast u could be rank3

[swift tinsel]

if you have the buff, finisher. if you don't have the buff and the conditions are met, strike

during dance/blades its usually a sequence of sectech->strike->evisc->strike->evisc but its not uncommon to double finisher at the end if you don't have enough stacks

[shrewd lantern]

just aggro the prey onto guards

how to kill it fast on shit alts

[swift tinsel]

the hard Prey hunts spawn wayyyyy too many traps, you can finish the hunt in like 3mins

and then they die before blades is even over

[shrewd lantern]

unironically the normal ones take longer

due to less traps around

[swift tinsel]

yeah its insane

won't be surprised if they nerf either the trap % contribution or spawn number

[shrewd lantern]

its weekly lockout for loot?

dont recall

[swift tinsel]

uhh should be

for the 2x vet pieces

[shrewd lantern]

i love getting them in slots i barely got an upgrade in though

very fun

[shrewd lantern]

idk dh without demon form

isnt dh

[swift tinsel]

I lucked into a dagger from one of them

[shrewd lantern]

entire point of the class is turning into your demon form

[swift tinsel]

so I'm not too mad. the other was a worse version of something I got from m0

[shrewd lantern]

ig but you just craft mh anyway

[swift tinsel]

ye probs will at hero, gonna wait til after first vault before I decide what to do

do we know if Delve maps will be a thing again?

for the guaranteed hero track 1x per week

[stable ridge]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[shrewd lantern]

probably i imagine

idk i just md everything to valeera

[swift tinsel]

Dance does that for me

lol

[shrewd lantern]

healer valeera more tanky than dps one

[swift tinsel]

don't even need to use tricks

[shrewd lantern]

oh i usually tricks mobs to her while i do objectives

[delicate rover]

That’s fine I enjoy the visuals more when I’m not turned into that ugly form lol

[warm marlin]

absolutely miserable experience doing this on multiple characters

would have been 90x worse with delves based on the amount of adventurer crests though

[delicate rover]

Oh, is this the expansion that I finally be focusing on only one character? Low-key I kind of hate that they want you to play so many characters to stay relevant.

[swift tinsel]

my alts are just gonna be for professions and the occasional keys

[warm marlin]

i'm not sure what relevant means to you but I am personally the least motivated i've ever been to alt because of ui shenanigans

alas splits exist

[swift tinsel]

EUI adding profiles will be a gamechanger for me though

it also has an insaneo low cpu load for an all-in-one

[warm marlin]

i normally maintain multiple other specs for key purposes and try to play something different in splits, rn it's looking like triple rogue. also they're all sub instead of split like usual