subtlety

[keen dome]

which gives more agi than a 220 piece

[maiden oar]

mayh e they just hotfix

[keen dome]

maybe but I imagine it's very whatever in a week

[maiden oar]

maybe

i have a notepad file with the next 2 days of item restorations mapped out though

which maybe shouldnt be the case

[brisk onyx]

Currently, the only significant difference is in chest/ring enchantments, but these won't be a problem once the new enchantments become more widespread (unless they nerf tww enchantments ）

[uncut socket]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

What's the point of all this minmax?

[uncut socket]

monkey brain wanna see orange logs

[tribal blade]

you can buy the rank 1 enchants and gems

they're super cheap

[keen dome]

Ye I know

but effort

[hollow spear]

Orange logs in M0 dungeons?

[tribal blade]

lol fair enough

[keen dome]

I'll do it for M0 gear

[tribal blade]

the enchants are going for 5g each

the vendor price

[uncut socket]

didnt read context around question, just answered generally

[tribal blade]

gems are less than 100g each

basically nothing

[hollow spear]

Yeah my answer was to the general point too

[tribal blade]

people like min maxing even when it "doesn't matter" 😉

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's not the price. I'm just lazy

[hollow spear]

It's like Eleem says, the second harder content releases your entire minmax gear will be replaced basically instantly

[keen dome]

and cba doing it for transient gear like heroic blues

Yep

[tribal blade]

oh yeah i don't blame you

[uncut socket]

if i'm wiping on a boss for 200-400 times imma get bored if im not trying to squeeze it

[hollow spear]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

yeah but it makes your life slightly easier for now

[hollow spear]

But there's no boss we'll wipe to 200-400 times until end of March 😅

[uncut socket]

well again to general not specific of current topic or situation

but ey, i've seen some spicy lfd pugs

[hollow spear]

I minmax too the second I get into mythic raid

Not condemning anyone doing it now ofc, it just seems like such a waste of time

[keen dome]

Ye

[hollow spear]

I used to do that too back when I was a student, now I just cba spending my valuable time on it

[uncut socket]

yea i'm minmaxing group comps etc, not going to optimize my gear before the day i'm entering raid

[uncut socket]

i used to have every single thing done and 5 characters maintained man, now i barely have the energy to do one xD

[hollow spear]

I level alts and if I get tired of that, I log off and do something different than playing wow

Back in the day I prepped like I was in a top 20 guild even though I was barely top 500

Maybe I can ask blizzard to restore my time rather than some items

[keen dome]

I've still got so many side quests to finish

too many

[neon escarp]

does this mean during SD i only spam SS when above 5 ST stacks ? or do i use finisher with Arts buff then SS again if at 5+ST

[tepid trellis]

you get the prox

proc*

then press finisher

[neon escarp]

i see, thanks

[quasi portal]

can some1 explain to me apex talent like im 5

sometimes i have 5pts in shadow techniques

and it does not trigger

nvm im dumm as brick

[hearty steeple]

no please folks some1 explain to us please

[quasi portal]

as i understand it, the count for shadow techniques stack triggers after you press any cp generator
so if you are at 7 low cp, you generate 5 cp, but your st stacks go below 5, at this point talent is triggered and it fails logic check for +5

so being at full cp, pressing ss / backstab / storm gets you over the treshold of 5

[limpid sage]

this is the first time I'm looking at the new APL for sub rogue and holyyyy it's like 33% of the original size xd

[quasi portal]

and then you can double finisher

[hollow spear]

A lot of useless shit gone ig

[limpid sage]

don't speak about my boy rupture like that

[hollow spear]

I'm dancing on his grave as we speak

Rip bozo

[limpid sage]

https://klipy.com/gifs/arthur-fist

[hollow spear]

What a pain in the ass trying to find the one nameplate in the giga pull that wasn't yet ruptured

[limpid sage]

I ignored it entirely in giga pulls

besides when gathering

[tribal blade]

at that point you can just rupture any target and it'll spread to that 1 mob 😉

sorry i'm being pedantic

[limpid sage]

don't say sorry, rupture haters deserve it

[tribal blade]

honestly glad rupture's gone, just wish we had some sort of dot

[limpid sage]

wthelly

[tribal blade]

HAHA

plot twist

at the same time i'd be totally fine if we kept rupture

because the play of apexing rupture seems like it could be a cool idea

but i'm not sure if that would be possible outside dance in ST

or you'd have to just afk for a bit to build 5 sht and then backstab>rupture

[shadow snow]

Thank god that there is no rupture for sub. Tired of spreading them

[uncut socket]

especially with nameplate situation these days, havent gotten to try out plater properly yet, was broken when i wanted to test it

[tribal blade]

we wouldn't have been playing with rupture spreading anyways

because in the initial rework replicating got changed while we kept rupture

so the design decision was to make rupture only a ST button

[hollow spear]

Super pointless imo

I want impactful buttons, not homework

[vestal escarp]

There was a fist clenching

[hollow spear]

Wdym?

[tribal blade]

TRUEEE

how did you find a post about me

[short radish]

because he was specifically calling YOU out

no one else

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/go-leave-me-alone-golden-girls-you-have-to-go-now-rose-gif-22287138

@tribal blade

Go back to #assassination

[summer lynx]

Hey just for some clarity, should I just keep using shadowstrike on two target cleave fights or should I swap full time to shurkin storm?

[tribal blade]

@lilac stag how did you know

i'm lvling up my splits rogue

[tribal blade]

yes use strike on 2

[summer lynx]

Ty

[bleak night]

np

[lilac stag]

you’re fucking delulu with rupture talk is how I know

[dark roost]

i feel stupid, why is 18% haste a breakpoint for sub? doesnt it mean an extra 1.6s?

[tribal blade]

heehee

[tribal blade]

this guy's a phony

[fossil forge]

so unbelieveably real

[lilac stag]

Hate breakpoints are for fitting extra globals in dance.

[dark roost]

that i get - i just mean how does 18% give us an extra global?

i thought rogue gcds are fixed at 1s, so we'd need however much haste to get extra seconds of dance? clearly i am wrong somewhere just not sure where

[willow knoll]

So sub rogue is like, 5 buttons now?

I gotta say as an FFXIV reject who just transferred over, the concept of not having to push 60 buttons for 1 rotation is kind of jarring and I feel like I'm missing something.

[fleet wharf]

well you missed out buddy. But yes, we're down to like 5 buttons

[willow knoll]

Not complaining tbh, rotation at the end of the day becomes muscle memory anyways so idk how much it actually matters.

Rogue aesthetic is still peak

[fleet wharf]

we're so good at stealth that devs seem to regularly forget about us

[willow knoll]

Yeah, all my friends play classic an told me to play Rogue, but instead I just went to retail for no reaosn and chose rogue.

lmao

I mean, I'm liking retail alot.

[fleet wharf]

i dunno, isn't the play to play warrior if you wanna play dps in classic though?

[willow knoll]

They're all PvP people.

[daring raptor]

guys is mythics coming out today at 24 or is it on reset on wednesday? (EU)

[willow knoll]

I don't care about PvP as much honestly, I just like raiding.

Retail seemed like a better fit to me

[fleet wharf]

I do think retail raiding is a ton of fun

Classic raids also have their charm, but imo the culture around classic raids make it harder to enjoy it

[willow knoll]

Classic has a weird idk.

[fleet wharf]

esp cuz lot of guilds just speedrun the raids anyway

[willow knoll]

Like the community has a different vibe as someone new than retail.

[fleet wharf]

If you don't have the nostalgia goggles, yea it can be weird

[willow knoll]

I kind of get it though, there's a charm to old WoW

[fleet wharf]

Yup, but you could also argue that the sweatlords returning to classic killed that charm

like ppl talk about a sense of community, reputation that made classic wow special

and they proceed to minmax everything and speedrun the everloving fuck out of everything

[willow knoll]

Yeah that was kind of my thing was I joined a littel too late for TBC anniversary and people got to the point where they were just reclearing and logging off.

[fleet wharf]

hahaha, yup

1 hour of raiding if that

[willow knoll]

and as someone who wants to try WoW raiding etc it seemed like a bad spot to start for me

much better off finding a retail guild etc

[fleet wharf]

If you can somehow manage to get like 20 other ppl who have never experienced tbc, that could be fun, but idk how to find such ppl

that's something that I think ff14 has done a much better job of enabling, like going back to old content

[willow knoll]

Oh for sure, doing content with a group full of new people is alot of fun but most people in classic seem like they've played for 50 years or something.

To an extent, at the same time FFXIV strips all of your abilities so sometimes helping people do old content can feel like a chore.

[fleet wharf]

I'm reclearing old content blind with my FF14 group, it's pretty great

[willow knoll]

FF14 is cool, I like both, just different feels for both MMOs. I never thought I'd make the jump to WoW but I think WoW is just more my thing.

[fleet wharf]

One thing I like about Wow over FF14 is the class designs and damage profiles

but yea, similar boat as you in terms of which MMO I prefer, hope you enjoy your stay

[willow knoll]

Yeah FF14 really likes to talk about balance but the real reason stuff is balanced is because they've homogenized everything.

It's one of my biggest gripes

[fleet wharf]

indeed. The netcode also leaves a lot to be desired imo

[willow knoll]

Yeah WoW feels like more snappy

more responsive in general

[fleet wharf]

it is kind of funny though cuz there are a few other FF14 refugees playing sub rogue too

i wonder what about this spec draws ppl like us in

[willow knoll]

I main Ninja in FF14 so I just gravitate towards sneaky dagger wielders

I got thrown off because I didn't realize I was playing midnight patch forever and they kept reffering to symbols of death etc and I was like wtf am I missing here.

Like when looking at rotation etc.

[fleet wharf]

yea, for sure. Lots of buttons got deleted

we used to have very high peaks and low valleys as the damage profile, we're now more of a class that has good burst every 20 ish seconds now

the playstyle changes a lot once you hit 90, so tinker with the spec a bit more once you hit max level

[willow knoll]

Oh with apex etc?

I was wondering about that

[fleet wharf]

it's pretty barebones until you get the last point of the apex

[willow knoll]

I'm going to be grinding retail today after work so I'm excited to find out atleast.

Or Midnight I mean

[fleet wharf]

I think it's true for a lot of classes/specs but yea, the spec doesn't really unlock until 90 just keep that in mind

the new zones and story are really interesting

[willow knoll]

That's good to know tbh

was hoping 90 from 80 spiced things up a bit

[fleet wharf]

Sub is pretty good for leveling for whatever it's worth

most mobs die when you shadow dance+sec tech

[willow knoll]

Yeah it hasn't fel bad beside early early game

Early game i switched to assassination because it felt bad lmao

Once I got shadowdance it became alot easier

[fleet wharf]

Honestly the rogue leveling experience is pretty crummy early on

but yea, ass feels so low on energy

[willow knoll]

Have leveled rogue and arcane mage to 80 just to try them out

Still trying to find where Im at but I think I like rogue

[fleet wharf]

did you quest your way up or how did you go through the leveling experience?

[willow knoll]

Yeah I leveled straight from 1 to 80, I didn't boost

I didn't wanna feel lost when boosting so I opted not to

I just did it in dragonflight

[fleet wharf]

yea, good call there. I think doing dungeons are a good way to level

but yea, do the main story first for your first char

[willow knoll]

really like dragonflight compared to BFA, I actually bought retail 2 years ago, started BFA and hated it and then went back to FF.

But dragonflight felt alot better to me

I think it was more the scenery

[fleet wharf]

I think you'll be hard pressed to find ppl who say BFA is their favorite expansion

actually, maybe I'm thinking more of shadowlands,

[willow knoll]

I don't think the content I was doing was bad, I just hated being in idk, a jungle for the entire experience.

[fleet wharf]

I only tried wow too because I was hearing good things about DF

[willow knoll]

It's interesting how you can straight level in WoW from 1 in a ton of different expacs, that's really cool.

[lilac stag]

I didn’t see it answered. Assa is 1 second. Sub is one second except for Coup, which is 1.2. Outlaw is 1 second, except for AR windows.

Haste alters Dance window length. The time in seconds of dance is not important. The reliability of getting extra gcds in dance is the important part. You’re looking at quantity of haste, not necessity percent.

700 will likely be the sweet spot as we start raiding. Less for m+

[willow knoll]

So haste makes your GCDs roll faster

Or CD lower?

[dark roost]

duration higher

[fleet wharf]

our GCDs are fixed. non energy classes get their GCD lowered with haste

[willow knoll]

Ohh I get what you mean now

[dark roost]

is quantity of haste and percent not one and the same for the sake of this?

[lilac stag]

Your tooltip can display 18% and be a total of 650 which isn’t 700

[dark roost]

it'd be 1.5x(% haste) = Y, and then Yx6 = dance duration

yes, sorry i forgot about that. bloodlust not affecting it e.g

[lilac stag]

engineering pieces likely very good since you can single stat them makes for easy swaps. We shall see.

[dark roost]

0.2s per gcd margin of error seems like a lot no? is this because of latency? surely with spell queieing it is easy to execute

or is that 0.2s overall?

[lilac stag]

you actually want closer to .4

[sly shore]

overall

[lilac stag]

to allow for coup, input lag, etc

[dark roost]

i suppose coup being 0.2, you have 0 room for error

yes...

[hollow spear]

people overestimate how tight their button presses are

[lilac stag]

one extra gem or enchant to get a safer dance window is going to more for your overall dps consistently than sniping the window because you wanted 20 more mastery.

[fleet wharf]

but muh sim bait

[dark roost]

agreed

[hollow spear]

Someone should calculate what a missed gcd every other dance window means in %

[dark roost]

the guide says 18%. so if my math is indeed correct; 1.5x18 = 27% longer dance, so 6x1.27= 7.62s duration dance

am i understanding this properly? 7.6 seems like a weird number

[willow knoll]

Missing an ability every other buff window is big oof

that shit add up quick

[maiden oar]

yea me

[willow knoll]

Hopefully WoW steals all of us

So Yoshi P can stop thinking he's slick

[maiden oar]

i think the reason is (this was way more true in tww) that it has a profile thats very similar to the generic 2min burst xiv class and also it has minimal variance

[lilac stag]

That’s 8 gcds with a buffer.

[maiden oar]

in terns of reactivity mid rotation

not in terms of dps output

[fleet wharf]

yea, that's a fair take

[willow knoll]

the 2 min burst window is one of the worst things to happen to the game honestly

[fleet wharf]

well it's more that if you know how the burst windows work, every one looks the same for sub

[willow knoll]

but Yeah I agree

[dark roost]

does this change with tier set? a 20s blade means we cant have dance active for all of it

[maiden oar]

agree

i quit xiv for wow bc of xiv class design

[dark roost]

then again the haste needed would be impossible to get

[lilac stag]

You’re not going to get that much haste

[maiden oar]

well i say quit but i did heavyweight bc farm in late mfo died down

and i got bored killing last 2 bosses for sales

[willow knoll]

LHW is a great tier

tbf

[maiden oar]

i quit ff bc of lhw into fru

i waited so long for fru and it was such a disappointment

[fleet wharf]

storywise or the endbosses not being interesting?

[maiden oar]

and i figured if they are shifting fun gameplay from the jobs to the fights and that is what the fights are like

at their highest difficulty

then xiv isnt worth taking seriously

like if they do that and give me something at least as good as dsr fine

i thought heavyweight was ok though i like m10s a ton

[willow knoll]

I'm just sick of the game constantly making compromises for the sake of 'better fights' or balance or whatever.

[maiden oar]

and idyllic dream is cool

[maiden oar]

agree

[willow knoll]

People cried alot about kaiten removed and everyone was downplaying it but this is why

Because it was like a slippery slope

[maiden oar]

if u make the fights the only engaging part it makes every fight below ur skill level miserable and every fight above ur skill level impossible

which means for every type of player in the game most of the content is not appealing to u

and it makes finding something u can play w ur friends who have different skill levels rly hard

[willow knoll]

the schism in WoW between raiding and casual play is really really bad

Idk how it is in WoW

[maiden oar]

i miss ew monk and shb summoner

its similar

[willow knoll]

I mean FFXIV

Not WoW

[maiden oar]

but at least in wow capping tomes was fun

bc ur class is fun

yea i assumed u meant xiv hehe

[willow knoll]

Yeah I like old monk too.

[maiden oar]

idk how ill feel about it now w the pruning

but ill probably still find it fun

[willow knoll]

Honestly though Monk is still one of the few classes that feels mostly okay stull

even if it's not what it was

[maiden oar]

i did the newest savage tier on bard

i like bard

dot proc timer so cool

[willow knoll]

BLM was destroyed

[maiden oar]

yea

[willow knoll]

Playing DT BLM was kind of the nail in the coffin for me

[maiden oar]

but i always liked rdm and pct more anyway

ah

shb summoner made me love xiv

and the resentment has building since ew for me

i swapped to scholar but uh

xiv healing is no good hehehe

[maiden oar]

yea i can imagine

[willow knoll]

summoner is one of the more agregious examples too of a job that was strong and difficult to get good at being reduced to playing legos

[maiden oar]

no job getting summonered is a happy occasion

if i do ult im probably doing it on rdm/pct/brd

but i only do it if nothi g happens in wow

[willow knoll]

I play alot of PCT. I havent messed with brd/rdm much

[maiden oar]

rdms fun has a cool minigame

where u need to get the instant cast to happen when ur ogcds are back so u dont drift them

they actually made it harder to do that in dt than it was in ew

[willow knoll]

Does WoW have OGCDs

[maiden oar]

yes

[willow knoll]

That thought went through my head

lmao

[maiden oar]

but much less of them and there are no weave windows

if u have like 100 fingers u could.press every ogcd u own at the exact same time

[hazy breach]

3% from alacrity doesn't count for increasing the duration

[maiden oar]

this matters less now but in tww sub u had multiple ogcds and i was inting my dmg by pretending i had weave slots

do not do that

[willow knoll]

yeah weaving is burnt into my brain

[maiden oar]

also get used to strafing

[willow knoll]

but I havent encountered anything in WoW to try and weave yet

[maiden oar]

and redo ur keybinds so u can hit while.pressing a and d

ur movement and where ur guy faces matter a ton more here

bc of no legacy camera and auto face

[maiden oar]

doesnt really happen w current sub besides potion

outlaw has some ogcds

[willow knoll]

I might need to get an MMO mouse

was thinking about that

I haven't did any hard content yet in WoW so idk how much it'll help

[fleet wharf]

I feel with the reduced buttons there's prolly no need

[willow knoll]

yeah maybe

[fleet wharf]

utilizing macros well will help too

cuz you can bind some abilities together to avoid wasting gcds

I feel wow's melee range is a bit less forgiving, having a melee range indicator might help

[willow knoll]

it definitely is

everything in FFXIV is a giant circle

giant

like hitbox wise

I've had to virtually stand inside some enemies with WoW

[fleet wharf]

The addon they recommend on outlaw channel has been really nice. Wildu tools i think

[fleet wharf]

also quite a bit of variance boss to boss

[willow knoll]

It's a good thing, FFXIV hitboxes make it so it barely matters that you're melee

[maiden oar]

yea loomithar last tier had a weird hitbox in p1

where u have to be very close to the red circle to hit him

whereas other bosses u can hit from significantly outside of the circle

[willow knoll]

oh the manaforge raid

That's what I'm on RN but haven't did it.

[maiden oar]

also every melee that isnt trickster can get parried

if ur not behind boss

[willow knoll]

thats a thing?

[maiden oar]

which is a % chance to get ur attack nullified

not in m+

or open owrld

in raid yes

[willow knoll]

good to know lmao

[maiden oar]

but some bosses cant parry

[willow knoll]

Man I'm excited to just switch to WoW

😎

[maiden oar]

if u play trickster fazing a guy stops him from parrying

so sub can cheat and never worry about it

but this can build ba dhabits

[willow knoll]

Idk what fazing is tbh

[fleet wharf]

it's a debuff we apply

[maiden oar]

trickster hero talent

[dark roost]

does this apply to pvp? do you know

[hollow spear]

I am doing all of them when I am around for the MQ

The RPG approach

[maiden oar]

i have 0 idea

never pvped in my life

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, hero

I did that for the first two zones but wanted to just finish the main quest off

[hollow spear]

I get that

Kinda feels the same for me

But I will suffer through it

If I can take The Witcher 3 as reference, doing all the side quests will make me strong enough that I won't need my guild anymore to kill mythic bosses

[keen dome]

I've just got Haroldnir left to do..

One quest left in the other three zones

[hollow spear]

At least you get some rep while you're at it

and it feels more organic to do stuff while I am around anyways

it's the same time spent, but my brain accepts grind more if it feels that way

[fiery fog]

did someone say rep

[glacial hinge]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[hollow spear]

my karesh rep is level 3 and I raided mythic all season long

[jolly sleet]

nice ! You could get a bit higher with all rares (they drop 50 rep first kill)

[fiery fog]

i have done all rares already

[jolly sleet]

gratz then 😄

[fiery fog]

only have the last sidequest in voidstorm that isnt available left

[jolly sleet]

did u do treasures too ?

[fiery fog]

yep

beside the 1000 vile essence chest

[hollow spear]

slacker

disappointing

[fiery fog]

they surely buff the drop rate for this right

its atrocious

[hollow spear]

depends on what their goals are

[jolly sleet]

wowhead says theres a tip where you use an extra ability of a sidequest nearby to obliterate mobs in the area

[hollow spear]

maybe they want the most degenerate grinders to have something they can chew on

[jolly sleet]

but still a hours long farm with the tip

[jaunty heath]

they letting plebs out in 10h, time for one last push .D

[sacred basalt]

are we getting access to mythics tonight or are they out tomorrow after reset?

[west bluff]

most likely tomorrow but not 100% sure

[proper dune]

Did I ready this correctly last night that we don't double use finisher when we get a full combo point proc?

[short radish]

The term is brokies

Alternatively the poor

[jaunty heath]

😄

[proper dune]

I am kinda confused now when it procs to eather use a finisher again or keep doing the shadowstrike/finisher combo

[hazy breach]

• As during with 3 or less targets, if you have 5 or more stacks of , and is not up, then cast (even at full combo points) to trigger .
  Per the #subtlety-faq and the guides

Basically, if you dont have the apex up, get the apex talent up

[proper dune]

I dont think my ui tracks ancientarts :/

[hazy breach]

Its the shadow glow in the middle of your screen

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1477362674898702508/image.png?ex=69a676f5&is=69a52575&hm=96e36eaab48a95ce57535a6e8c90090f68d2a4a386c63b04f3571c605c6e6154&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=478&height=214

[proper dune]

yea I dont have that

[hazy breach]

Then you have some addon disabling it

[proper dune]

yea it's elvui with toxiui

[fleet wharf]

I think I set that opacity to 0 at some point too

do you know what it's called

in case anyone else had the same issue, change the spell alert opacity

[proper dune]

gonna try that, thanks

mine is set to 0 so maybe this will fix it

[fleet wharf]

Yea, I think I turned these off cuz I liked using custom visuals with Weakaura. Anyone know if we can still do that?

[proper dune]

ah yes when its on 100 it shows

[proper dune]

so when it doesnt show, we still use shadowstrike even if we're on 5 CP points. We always fishing for that shadow glow during shadow dance?

[crimson thorn]

Hey guys, why in the opener its suggested to use an eviscerate before entering shadow dance and using secret tec?

[steady sail]

I believe it's to start slice and dice running for the extra attack speed it grants

[hazy breach]

You can just ignore that too if you want

And go straight into cds

[graceful osprey]

Just curious, how much stronger are 90s in TWW raids?

[limpid sage]

Guys don't do the abundance event thing

they somehow still haven't fixed it since the beta despite it being reported 5 billion times

and consumes one of your dundun shards or w/e it's called

[torn tide]

whats up with it?

[limpid sage]

you can't pick up the abundance so you're stuck at 0

[hazy breach]

Isnt it just disabled until the expansion starts for real for real

[vale pine]

for real ^^

[finite crow]

how worth will it be to turn m0 pieces into set pieces s1?

[dusty totem]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[sullen hare]

Personally speaking I would only do that to hero and up

Catalyst charges are supposed to be less punishing this expansion right?

[finite hedge]

"Acquiring a class set 4-piece bonus now unlocks a character-specific Feat of Strength that will enable Catalyst charges to drop from raid bosses, Mythic+, Bountiful Delves, and Rated PvP on that character for the remainder of the season."

Yeah

[sullen hare]

Well then yeah if it's you 4 piece I'd say send it but that's feel craft

[finite hedge]

So getting that 4 piece early might be worth catalyst a lower piece

[finite crow]

ye thats why i asked

[lilac stag]

Who knows what the drop rate will actually be

[sullen hare]

Too bad literally half my raid is on the leather token 🫠

[lilac stag]

I’m hopeful they adjust it if it’s shit.

[finite hedge]

If you mean pre season m0, I'd say no. Probably not a vet piece. If anything champion. You can get champ or even hero from a +6 start of the season pretty easily. I don't see any reason to cata a vet piece.

[ionic wave]

How was it punishing when it's BLP???

[dusk gale]

sup rogue bros, i just wanted to pop in and say, damn, sub feels ass to level with 💩 Practically auto attack bot, backstabs dealing 1/4th of your shadowstrike and energy cost in the roof while regen is poo

[hazy breach]

Just press dance

[lilac stag]

[dusk gale]

i did, managed 1 shadowstrike and 1 secret technique before its back to stabbing with peanuts 😄

for context, we're talking less than lvl 30 here

[finite hedge]

THe mob was still alive after sectech? weird

[lilac stag]

For context. No one gives a shit about that.

[dusk gale]

damn bro, youre out with the offensives. I wasnt 😄 Ill pop my vanish

honestly not exclusive with sub. Its just a mix of stat squish + new changes perhaps. Just find it odd that its in this state for many melees

[lilac stag]

rogue is not a fun leveling experience. 80-90 is WAY BETTER from previous new expansions

[dusk gale]

im counting on it 👍

[hazy breach]

But yeah on low low levels most specs are jank as hell

Make sure you spec into relentless strikes though

[scarlet heath]

They messed up leveling for a few classes, the various stat squishes and talent changes made for some curious situtions

leveling is just purgatory now that you have to power through to actually play the game

for example shamans have a few levels where they can get a new talent but the associated spell is higher level

so they cant even use it

[lilac stag]

just use the char boost.

[dusk gale]

ye, thats what i mean

just not a good representative of a class/spec to have this, especially for newer players

but you know, is what it is

[scarlet heath]

yeah it's just a mess

they'd have to do another pass for leveling experience but with how fast it is nowdays, it probably isnt too high on their prio list

[hazy breach]

Playing sub without relentless strikes and shadowcraft

Also without last apex

[warm marlin]

this was very fun in remix lemme tell you

heroic world tier got hands when my i get 3 gcds in an 8s dance

[dusk gale]

im just looking forward to hopefully play an iteration of sub that feels decent in AoE. Doesnt even have to be godlike, but in earlier iterations, its been overshadowed by sin and outlaw i feel like

[zenith wedge]

feel like they realized they didnt have time to give us a proper rework so just stripped it to the bones for the expac

[sullen hare]

I'll let my blizzard guy who balances level 30s know

[scarlet heath]

sub aoe rn feels good and snappy, just gotta get to the level where you are actually allowed to play the class with full kit

early on... yeah

[dusk gale]

what you mean guys, this isnt it? 😮 1 shuriken storm into the tickle black powder? no wae

[scarlet heath]

once you have all the toys, BP hits for like 75% of evis now, it is actually quite strong

[brisk onyx]

alacrity is actually a little higher than 3%, am I overlooking something?

[warm marlin]

all haste sources are multiplicative with each other

[zenith wedge]

how hard blackpowder hits doesnt change that the gameplay is build spend build spend

[warm marlin]

so if you already have haste a new 3% will be more than 3%

[scenic shell]

AOE rotation is shadow strike over fan of knives???

[sullen hare]

Not since before the rework for max leveled characters

[river coral]

is it a known bug that apex buff doesnt work if you get into shadow dance?

[warm marlin]

yes while you have premeditation it doesnt work

[river coral]

unfort

[warm marlin]

been known since early tww3 back when apex was shadowcraft

maybe fixed someday

[sullen hare]

[torn cedar]

How do i make a cancelaura for shadowdance so i can restealth ...

[brisk onyx]

#showtooltip stealth
/cancelaura shadow dance
/cast !stealth
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

[torn cedar]

thanks, why is this even needed

[sullen hare]

It's not

[torn cedar]

well, running around world content being stealthlocked all the time is pure aids xd

[sullen hare]

Take a point out of tfd then

[brisk onyx]

whatever if you want

[torn cedar]

i mean, i should just be allowed to stealth out of combat no matter what

[hazy breach]

Tbf it was known from the rework in 10.2, we just thought it was some form of stance delay and not the premed specifically

In practice those are the same thing

[hazy breach]

Like Ryldd said all haste buffs are multiplicative. So for example lets say you have 10% haste and you get BL, you dont end up at 10+30=40%, you end up at 1.1x1.3=1.43, so 43%

But since alacrity is a fairly small number, the math works out to it just being slightly more than 3%, not a massive difference

[warm marlin]

for sure, just meant when we knew exactly why

[potent heath]

Hi, someone can explain me the utility of this ?

[hazy breach]

If your UI doesnt have a bar that switches when you enter stealth and you want them on the same button

[hazy breach]

In hindsight its kinda silly that we didnt realize that it was the replicating rupture ticks that counted as finishers for the refunds and just thought "oh well sometimes it randomly refunds with replicating specced ig"

[potent heath]

Ooooh ok, thanks

[olive canyon]

This apex refund stuff, and shadowstriking to prep the double finisher seems quite nice - simple spec now but sub feels good

[dense geode]

Didnt we always just have that even before apex talents

[hazy breach]

In the past yes, in midnight prepatch no

They moved it from shadowcraft into the last apex talent

(and changed it slightly)

[olive canyon]

I just meant that the shadowstriking to make sure it procs is a nice subtle shift

and feels really good when playing in large packs or even ST

[oak iris]

hi i use the personal resource display. is there a way to center the combopoints ?

[fleet acorn]

guys what cloak is better the midnight 220+ ones or the tww one?

[minor trout]

should we pool some sht for dance windows?

[warm marlin]

omg that bug

[minor bobcat]

Yeah sub felt really weird like a bastardized version of it self until 90 now it just feels like a simplified version of its old self with the last apex talent.

[minor bobcat]

Ill sometimes do it but from what ive gathered im just not COMPLETELY out of energy going into a dance window. At least have idk like 30% energy but youll be good by then.

[vale pine]

i think sub feels fine, i prefered the df version

many times, it feels less fluid/dynamic

also idk if its gear, but some specs feel quite a bit better in output than rogue

i suspect its a lack of tuning

[crystal bone]

^

[thorny ridge]

!Fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

I've been having a blast playing around with apex

[lilac stag]

🤹 🧢

[wispy pebble]

Haranir should have same dmg as blood elvesright? + maybe a bit more due to racial ability

[misty condor]

Do we still look for different haste values in raid vs mythic or is ~18% a blanket suggestion?

[vale pine]

no

you look at roughly 18% for both now

the diffrence mostly is how you spread crit and mastery

mastery is very good in mythic+ and aoe

while you would spread it more evenly between crit and mastery in raid

[misty condor]

Thank you. I'm 90% an M+ player so I'll look for more mastery.

[dim stream]

#showtooltip
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

for this macro when coup de grace is not ready icon is question mark

i want the see black powder on icon and coup de grace on icon when its ready
is it pos and how can i do that

[loud wharf]

#showtooltip Black Powder
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

[hazy breach]

#showtooltip Black Powder

[loud wharf]

This will just have it always show Black powder though.

[dim stream]

yeah

i cant see coup then

[loud wharf]

It will not dynamically switch to Coup de Grace

[dim stream]

i mean we cant make it dynamic?

[astral axle]

I wonder if this works.

#showtooltip
/use [known:Coup de Grace] Coup de Grace; Black Powder

[lilac stag]

Or just press two different keybinds.

[astral axle]

I don't really recommend using such a macro

But if you really wanted to maybe that one would dynamically update in the manner you're wanting

[lilac stag]

“We don’t har enough buttons”
“Why doesn’t this macro removing another button work?”

[dim stream]

no

[astral axle]

I'm at work so cannot test. But interested if it does work

[warm marlin]

play hidden bars like a real one

[astral axle]

Oh well

[uneven scarab]

Just make the icon the scared looking cat, bis macro icon

[bleak night]

make it this smug bastard

[uneven scarab]

[torpid echo]

Let me see if I get this bit right:

Inside dance, in up to 3 targets I will go SS > Spender > SS (if 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques) regardless if i'm full combo points > Spender
If i'm fighting 4 or more targets I just send BP > Spender > Spender (if enough combo points) > BP > Spender > Spender

is that right?

[loud wharf]

Fun fact, we are pressing Coup de Grace in AOE too when you're spamming black powder. Macro it in and then never think about if you need to press it. You will just press it when it's up.

[warm marlin]

yes, assuming bp means shuriken storm on the 4 target line

[torpid echo]

Sorry yeah, I meant to spell SS for Shuriken storm and ended up going for BP for Black powder xD

[loud wharf]

During dance, arent we casting Shuriken storm at 3+ targets? Strike at 1-2 targets?

Outside of dance we are casting Storm on 2+ targets always. Powder as the spender on 2+

[astral axle]

No make the macro icon this guy

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait for mindlessly spamming coup in aoe to be a dps loss.

Charrend will save us

[white siren]

hi guys, is it intended when you ping enemy it removes stealth ?

[uneven scarab]

i would imagine no?

[grand galleon]

ofc, characters need to see you pointing at something

its RP

[bleak night]

wtf it

does

it even pulled aggro

[uneven scarab]

LMFAO

aint no way

[maiden oar]

[bleak night]

this is wild

what the hell

[crystal bone]

🐛

anotha one

[uneven scarab]

thats epic

[white siren]

pinging ally does not remove, pinging floor same, only on enemies from my tests

[bleak night]

yeah its not just a stealth thing, for some reason pinging an enemy is a hostile action now

so it breaks stealth incidentally, but it also just fucking aggros them immediately

thats so funny

[keen dome]

Huh, it does? I just tried it and it didn't break stealth or aggro anything.

[uneven scarab]

Did you ping the enemy or the floor

[keen dome]

the enemy

[uneven scarab]

hmm

[upper narwhal]

is it a specific type of ping, like warning vs assist?

[bleak night]

im testing in a delve, lemme see if its different outside

[grand galleon]

what everything unlocks today with Midnight release that was not in EA?

[keen dome]

None of those did anything

[bleak night]

it also seems to have a range to it

[upper narwhal]

hm

[bleak night]

cant be too far

[uneven scarab]

Could be an instanced thing for whatever reason

[astral axle]

new pull through wall tech

[keen dome]

I bet it's an instance thing

[bleak night]

ok yeah its not happening outside

[upper narwhal]

man if I could use pings to gather mobs in the open world for quests i would lowkey love it

[bleak night]

its definitely an isntance thing

[white siren]

yeah I'm in follower dungeon

[bleak night]

they broke something fucking with combat in instances

[white siren]

I confirm outside of dungeon no stealth break

[dire ravine]

Can we fish for apex procs 🫣

[bleak night]

actually

is this just a follower/delve thing

pinging is probably just ordering the npc to attack

[west tide]

bro the only thing keeping my brain active on sub is watching my coup and sht stacks for the apex trick

i will NOT macro coup and bp together

#standwithme

[south kernel]

i dont remember who said but isnt it a giga increase in aoe to apex coup?

[rain hazel]

any good lightweight addon that yells at me when i forget my poisons?

[south kernel]

so u might delay it for 1 more ss cast to get an apex proc

so maybe not macro it if u wanna do this lil optimization

giga might be an overstatement but u get my point

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sullen hare]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/buffreminders

[fading whale]

is it ping issue for shadowstrike to cast as backstab after casting shadowdance

[radiant swift]

1.5% iirc

[sullen hare]

are you playing as deathstalker?

[fading whale]

trickster

[vale pine]

if you use a macro for strike + backstab, the stance switch is to slow to realize that dance is up

[sullen hare]

that delay has been around for while

[fading whale]

im not using macro but the stance delay explains it

feels kinda ahh pressing too fast and losing a gcd on backstab

[south kernel]

im just happy with the excuse to get an extra button in aoe

[swift tinsel]

wym extra button in aoe

[south kernel]

like not using the coup-bp macro

to try and line an apex for coup

[swift tinsel]

could just not use it

[hazy breach]

Lining up coup for dance is not 1.5%

The 1.5% is the strike at full cp in ST

Lining up coup with dance and apex in aoe is neutral in simc

[south kernel]

NOOOOOO MY EXCUSE TO NOT USE THE MACRO

[swift tinsel]

Just don't use it lol

[south kernel]

yea i know dont worry this is for the dramatic effect

[swift tinsel]

its not like we're inundated with binds

[south kernel]

no clue what that word means but i agree

[hollow spear]

You can discuss that with my dance macros

[west tide]

what does lining up coup for shadowdance mean, how do u delay it without not spending finishers

my brain dont undastand

[hazy breach]

Its in aoe

So you just bp

[west tide]

mm ok

[south kernel]

well not specifically for dance

[hollow spear]

What did you put in the apl for that Eleem?

[south kernel]

just see if ur next ss gives u an apex and if yes then bp instead of coup

otherwise just coup

[hazy breach]

Yeah thats also whatever

[south kernel]

yea probably very minor

[west tide]

cool to know for add phases though

neat

ty!

[swift tinsel]

I just do it bc it makes me feel cool

gives me something to do

[hollow spear]

When I press my evis keybind in aoe, I feel sophisticated

[west tide]

i likeshadowstriking at full cps its like rewiring my brain

[limber folio]

anyone doing the shadowguard point delve xp farm rn?

sub feels like ass doing it, but also is it intended that i lose aggro when SDing?

ive forgor sub entirely

[vale pine]

just create a weakaura for it, dah

[radiant swift]

oh mybad miss thing the both

[vale pine]

(sorry, i had to make the joke)

[grand galleon]

guys, are weekly events ready with release or do we have to wait till reset?

[radiant swift]

wait apex coup in aoe is neutral?

[willow pawn]

are we holding for 30s for puzzle box?

or we send every other?

[hazy breach]

Every other if you have it, but probably more worth to have double passives for big aoe

[willow pawn]

how far behind is plume from puzzle box in raid?

[hazy breach]

I mean the flag from the raid is the best

in ST

By a noticeable amount

[willow pawn]

i see

kk

[jaunty heath]

just remove cp bar and always go builder into finisher 😄

[vale pine]

not sure if thats a good idea

[jaunty heath]

weird times

btw fuu whats up with that opener on wowhead for tricskter

looks very weird

[finite crow]

maybe in future will be worth to spec into something else and ignore some of the apex

[vale pine]

wdym

[west tide]

going from pack to pack is interesting with this sht at 5 strike stuff what if u end 1 pack at 5+ sht, and u have a charge of dance, and u ended the pack at full cps.. wdyd..

[jaunty heath]

it sendind cds after dance or soemthing

[vale pine]

?

you start with strike from stealth, then evis

and go into cooldowns

anything wrong with that?

you can in theory go strike-cooldowns too

[tacit thistle]

Looks a bit too complicated tbh

[vale pine]

or strike-evis-vanish-strike-cooldowns

[jaunty heath]

idk there was some discussuin not having blades and dance macroed

[vale pine]

you probably want to have it seperated

[sullen hare]

my preferred cadence tbh

[jaunty heath]

and why is first ability strike and not sectech all sudden

[vale pine]

but for a diffrent reason

you might want to macro trinkets to blades

and some trinkets you need to use before dance

e.g. the haste one thats so good

[potent heath]

with trickster, strike into cooldown is very huge

[vale pine]

because if you macro, you don't get the haste bonus for deepening

[jaunty heath]

yeah its weird the one you posted on wowhead

[vale pine]

so the idea of "no macro"

[hollow spear]

I'll just adjust the macro once I get the flag

[finite crow]

17th of march ye?

[hollow spear]

Did you guys sim the difference between evis first or going straight into cooldowns?

[vale pine]

i can remove evis/strike if thats easier to understand

[jaunty heath]

nah i just find confusing opening wiht strike insted of sectech

i will be doing vanis opener likely

[vale pine]

its just in the opener

[jaunty heath]

or skip evis

[vale pine]

but it does not rly matter

ill update it, give me a sec

also makes it easier to macro

[jaunty heath]

i was literary just asking no issue on my end 😄

[vale pine]

(moment, need to go afk for 5 mins, can update after)

i mean, if it makes no diffrence in dps

and strike-cooldowns is easier to understand

i guess thats a good change

[dense grove]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[grand galleon]

well, you will not proc cut to the chase in AoE with opener where there is no evis

unless coup procs it

[warm marlin]

was like 0.2-0.3%

to do vanish opener

assuming no stance delay

unless u mean strike direct into sectec

[hollow spear]

Yeah that

Strike straight into sectec

[stuck lance]

I usually have time to evis before mobs are gathered on aoe and I dont wanna hit cds til its grouped

[vale pine]

^

[warm marlin]

i believe strike direct into sectec was not good

slice and dice is good

[vale pine]

think it was fairly neutral

[stuck lance]

Yeah but on ST your only doing like 3 or 4 global before u get snd up and matters less on longer fights

[hollow spear]

We had a conversation yesterday and people said it was neutral

That's why I was curious

[warm marlin]

oh nvm me then

[vale pine]

i can check again tomorrow

[hollow spear]

Didn't see sims for it

If fuu says it's neutral I'll believe it tho

[warm marlin]

my sims are like 3-4 weeks old at this point so a lot has changed

[astral axle]

big feel craft: but on beta when tanks were gathering in m+ i sometimes hit the strike into evisc just to go ahead and have tricks and snd running since I was basically afk otherwise for a few seconds.

[vale pine]

give me a sec, ill sim

for m+ you might want to send a strike-evis before mobs are gathered

[astral axle]

just felt nice to do cause what else are you doing at that time yknow

[vale pine]

it feels terrible to use dance and only hit like 3 mobs

[hollow spear]

In m+ it's chill yeah

It's more about st

[warm marlin]

i just run perma tricks and storm evis then run around storm bping

[forest void]

hey so for the time being, is having a non dagger in my offhand the worst thing ever if it's an upgrade?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[warm marlin]

sometimes if the drag looked like it was gonna take a real long time I just sent the dance/st as the gather was happening

[hollow spear]

You could probably even dry snd instead of evis on the first mob to avoid aggro

[warm marlin]

was usually back up by the time full gather happened

[hazy breach]

Even a level 1 dagger is better than any non-dagger you can find

[solemn isle]

we don't send the 100% crit shuriken storm in ST right? not worth over backstab?

[warm marlin]

it is not worth it

that one im sure about

[hollow spear]

Holy ring around the rosie

But yeah I need to learn to be less stingy with my dances

The 20s cooldown still hasn't clicked yet

[vale pine]

vanish-strike seems 0.1-0.3% worse

so ye, not that much difference

[warm marlin]

interesting, wonder what changed

[vale pine]

its target error, it was 0.1% the run before

[crimson thorn]

@vale pine still need to edit the "3. Cast Eviscerate" and the "8. Cast Shuriken Storm" in the AOE opener

[vale pine]

oh, moment

i missed one then

fixed

[hollow spear]

And what about going straight into cooldowns sectec rather than evis first?

[vale pine]

going directly in cooldowns is neutral

[woven mica]

is thistle bad? seeing as icy and wowhead dont use it for any builds?

[vale pine]

so its all within so low % that you can use whatever

just go into cooldowns is the easiest

[hazy breach]

Yes, energy is infinite in cooldowns anyway

So it doesnt do anything

[woven mica]

I struggled with energy on trash lvling to 90:/

knives+powder spam

[warm marlin]

if you dont have energy in dance you aren't auto attacking enough

[limpid sage]

how does the order of that look exactly?

[warm marlin]

if you don't have energy outside dance thats intended

[vale pine]

strike-evis-vanish-strike-dcooldowns

[limpid sage]

won't it dance->strike after?

[vale pine]

dance-secret

because you are at max cp

[placid crown]

Hello guys. Coming with questions, deeply sorry to not understand probably simple things, and deeply sorry if I ask something already asked and answered.

1. • Do I need to track "Flawless form" buff ? Or will i touch the best optimization even if I ignore it ?

[limpid sage]

aren't all conditions for shadowstrike right after fulfilled?

[woven mica]

^ continuing on that, how bad will it be ignoring everything and just do procs and rotations? xd

[limpid sage]

since it's before finishers

[vale pine]

wdym?

the sim i did just changed the opener

so i basically made a small adjustment to get the specific sequence

the diffrence in output from small changes in the opener is super small

nothing to overthink

[warm marlin]

doesnt seem to get enough sht to hit 5 before then

[limpid sage]

what I mean is that aren't there a few times where it'll SD->Strike due to ShT generation?

[warm marlin]

you'd need to proc it 5 times in 3 seconds

not gonna happen

even in bl

[limpid sage]

not even with skyfury?

[warm marlin]

without shadowcraft active i believe that is a metric ton of autos

its consistently only hitting 2 by the time it casts sectec at 3s with that opener

[jaunty heath]

Already 15% haste pre enchants and gems, are targeting this ?

[void hound]

is shadow dance duration snapshotted?

with haste

[warm marlin]

yes

[limpid sage]

that seems weird

[warm marlin]

but it takes a slight moment for deepening to update to new haste values

so haste trinket/dance macro no work

[void hound]

i see

[rich canopy]

There's no way to track Ancient Arts, right?

[warm marlin]

if you have spell alert opacity on there will be some very nice giant black bars on your screen when its active

otherwise no

[hazy breach]

#subtlety message

[west tide]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[vale pine]

best is to ask @steel zinc, he writes some addons and possibly knows how much you can customize the defaults

but as eleem mentioned, you get the aura in the middle of the screen, so at least see the refunds

[limpid sage]

wait they removed the fazed part for coup giving FF?

[hazy breach]

From the tooltip yes

But it still works like before

[limpid sage]

XD

[placid crown]

I dont understand if it means that we can use Coup on a target even if this target does not have the fazed debuff

[limpid sage]

it doesn't give the flawless form stacks if used on a non-fazed target

[fading whale]

yo are voice warning still a thing like LoS and sht

[limpid sage]

still usable on them

[steel zinc]

Track not really customize kinda

What you can do is basically say blizzard "aura pops" w/e spell and that can be changed to Y

[placid crown]

But isnt it possible to be under flawless form buff without a target with fazed debuff, but having flawless means coup still cleaves ?

[west tide]

guys as a no macro ever guy i may be converted soon

thinking about using one for the trinkets cds

perhaps i will try the dance technique but i think i press em at the same time already…

[placid crown]

Ok so an other question :

• If I have a Coup de Grace ready but i'm not under dance, do I need to wait to be in dance to use it ?

[vale pine]

you want to play on a controller?

just joking because you probably can with macros now^^

binding trinkets/potions to blades seems the least intrusive

[bleak night]

last i heard it was actually harder to get a controller working now than it was before

[west tide]

i would try it out forsure open world

[vale pine]

possible, combat has more restrictions on addon api's

so could see how something like targeting could become an issue

[bleak night]

another fun thing i noticed recently is shadowstepping using blizzards built in mouseover system is broken

it'll just say invalid target if you try

to anything other than allies

[vale pine]

it does not work on certain targets

its stupid

[hollow spear]

Wait what, that's cooked

[vale pine]

it is

[spare oar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shy scarab]

!stealth

whats the cancel shadow dance stealth macro again 😄

[fading whale]

#showtooltip Stealth
/cancelaura [nocombat] Shadow Dance
/cast !Stealth

[placid crown]

I don't understand the optimization around the strike again to pop the apex talent

[shy scarab]

cheers love

[covert pine]

Did they 2 button rotation?

lol

[placid crown]

Does it mean that I should go for strike x2 - evis - strike x2 - evis - strike x2 - evis - etc

[swift tinsel]

strike - evisc - strike - evisc

while at full cp

and having 5+ sht stacks

[placid crown]

ah so you mean that I do what you say instead of doing strike - evis - evis

[swift tinsel]

ye

[placid crown]

then

is Rank3 usefull ?

[swift tinsel]

rank 3 makes it possible

[placid crown]

if you play by ignoring it

[swift tinsel]

you're only ignoring the free finisher part

in favor of guaranteeing a clone proc

[placid crown]

well i dont read anything else in the tooltip of rank 3 than the free finisher

[swift tinsel]

[placid crown]

yeah

sorry ^^

[bleak night]

i forgive you

[swift tinsel]

read apex 3 with apex 1 in mind

pay close attention to the keyword expend

it ties the two together

[digital cloud]

Hi guys do you have any recommendation for a combo points bar to see the supercharger combo points?

[swift tinsel]

wangbar

[crimson thorn]

How big of a loss in dps is not paying attention to the apex and just use finisher everytieme you are full cp?

[placid crown]

i'll translate from my toolitp so it may not be exactly these words, but from rank 1 I read : "attacks using shadow tech stacks to generate combo points.... etc". But if i use a strike while i'm full cp, my strike does not use any shadow tech stack. I don't get it

[hazy breach]

But your eviscerate does

[swift tinsel]

#subtlety message

[grand wyvern]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[placid crown]

Then why not using strike again before 5 shadow tech, then we can accumulate more shadow techs and use this to get more clones for the attack after

or the answer would just be "in this case: not worth it"

[soft swift]

we do strike again after finisher (during shadow dance) to get back up to 5+ shadow tech, then finisher, then strike, then finisher to proc those ancient arts rank 1/3

[placid crown]

I try hard but I don't understand the sequence of the process

[hazy breach]

Eviscerate clones go brrr

[arctic heart]

folks, plater is ok to u guys?

having some bugs

[swift tinsel]

platynator

[stuck arrow]

It's basically the same as normal just you're counting the ST stacks as combo points instead of normal combo points.

[dreamy latch]

Do we need to bind backstap and SS to seperate binds anymore?

[swift tinsel]

nope

no more backstab in dance

[placid crown]

Ok so let say I have 0 cp and 14 st stacks, i use strike -> i get 7 cp and 7 st stacks, then i should strike again ?

[hazy breach]

No because you have the apex buff active already

[sullen hare]

a lot of folks dropped plater for platynator, including me. I prefer it

I dropped kui since it's not maintained anymore

[arctic heart]

@sullen hare will give it a try

[vale pine]

i still use nameplatekai, for performance reaseons tho

[sullen hare]

ooo I'll have to give nameplatekai a peek

[cold fox]

is it just me or does the CD manager miss the ancient arts buff completely? how am I supposed to track it?

[swift tinsel]

the screen spell alert

[placid crown]

Why not say "when you get a free finisher, just strike instead"

[hazy breach]

Thats what it says

[hazy breach]

But you need to have enough sht stacks to trigger it

[cold fox]

thanks guys, I disabled them 🤦‍♂️

[soft swift]

you can see those black bars if you set Spell Opacity to 100 (defaulted to 0)

[cold fox]

yeah, found it, much appreciated

[grand wyvern]

just to confirm, during dance 7cp 4 sht stack, you dont "wait" for the 5th stack u send evis right?

[olive canyon]

just to confirm - you have full cps, the apex talent procs with the black lines aura above, you are then meant to Shadow strike again before double finisher?

[hazy breach]

No

If you DO NOT

WHEN THE APEX IS NOT UP

And you can trigger the apex

Trigger it (in low target counts)

[swift tinsel]

[hazy breach]

Idk people are overcomplicating it

[stuck arrow]

Press Eviscerate when you have the black bars. Strike when you don't.

[swift tinsel]

only if you have 5+ sht

and full cp

[grim phoenix]

i just think people have a hard time visualizing when or how the situation can occur, i know i did a day or so ago and either eleem or fuu said something about it happening on refreshes that helped me a lot. some just need a concrete situation i think

[olive canyon]

This is what i understood yesterday but the above conversation confused the hell out of me.

[willow knoll]

It's always funny when stuff is mega overexplained when it can be summed up with what flayr said

Idk what's with MMO guides doing that

[olive canyon]

100%

[hazy breach]

I mean that is literally what the guides say

[willow knoll]

Oh idk, I just meant in general

I've ran into it before on other guides.

Maybe not this one

[swift tinsel]

maybe we hide the optimization behind a password in the guides

lol

[frigid prawn]

Gotta print that and put it next to my monitor😂

[swift tinsel]

its really not all that complicated like Eleem said

and a lot of people have asked how to play around it without even being 90 and having access to it to see in action

[jaunty heath]

3h to finish loremaster before they let plebs in

[grand wyvern]

cant finish loremaster one quest is not up

[upper narwhal]

playing around strike at full combo points gives the spec a bit of gameplay, i quite like it

[grand wyvern]

your checklist doesnt cover my doubt

am I in dance? yes
Do i have full cp? yes
Do i have 5 sht? no

Option 1 (my understanding): i send evis with no apex

Option 2 I strike waiting for 5sht to proc

[swift tinsel]

never hold globals in dance

if you don't have the sht stacks to force the proc, just use evisc

[lilac stag]

I think this is going to see a lot of use this week

[swift tinsel]

I might honestly just not open discord lol

[grand wyvern]

i mean that's already what i was doing then i read in here people saying different things and i gotta ask again to be sure, sorry

[lilac stag]

I’m just checking in periodically so the regulars aren’t having a mentyb

[west tide]

guys if i have 0 cp 0 sht stacks 0 bitches what do i do

[lilac stag]

Find some bros

[hazy breach]

Just Dance

[grand wyvern]

you might want to tone down the sarcasm or you are just gonna get more questions, just a suggestion

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/cant-take-my-eyes-off-you-just-dance-dancing-happy-just-dance-1-gif-17649021321927066316

[cursive vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/lady-gaga-just-dance-gif-7332719718382846523

[west tide]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-animal-dancing-cat-cat-kitty-cute-gif-1879301708244436198

[cursive vapor]

rah rah ah ah ah

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/mayhem-music-video-lady-gaga-abracadabra-gif-11153281485202060068

[oak pagoda]

Hey im New 🙂
Single Target:
Agility (Item level) > Haste (~35%) >= Vers >= Mastery = Crit
(Sub / trickster)
Is these for Midnight too ?

[spare oar]

I see Blizzard Black Art apex Animation, i Press evis evis

Am i doing it wrong?

[grand wyvern]

from the pins

Stat Priorities for 90:
Mastery > Haste(~18%) > Critical Strike > Versatility

[olive canyon]

what does haste to 18% allow us to do?

[hazy breach]

+2 globals in dance

[oak pagoda]

Damn didnt see the pins 🙁 Thank you

[vestal escarp]

Gaga in subtlety

Woah

[real belfry]

So does Sub no longer have an ability to proc the Silent Assassin set? It used to be on rupture but now that's gone.

[hazy breach]

the what now

[swift tinsel]

iirc its an animation thing from the MoP challenge mode set

[real belfry]

Assassination still gets it on mutilate. I think outlaw had it on dispatch.

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah apparently people notice a tiny animation.

[real belfry]

The little things i liked the set for! No other sets in WoW were tied to your ability use like the CMs were.

[shrewd lantern]

I dont think that backpiece fits the color scheme

also one sunblade instead of two

[real belfry]

Theres a better color from the Venthyr dinner event that I just completely forgot about doing

[shrewd lantern]

The silver one?

I dont think it quite matches still

no orangey tone

I don't like the cm set helm personally.

No helm+df s1 pvp glad tabard looks clean.

[real belfry]

The Recolor i dont have

The one i do

though idk, i've never found a good cape for this set. Doesn't help i play undead

[real belfry]

none of these pieces work alone which sucks

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah cloaks dont look good.

or undead

[crystal bone]

are you guys adding a sound alert to escalating blades for when coup is ready?

[swift tinsel]

I looked into it but it didn't activate on coup being ready, just gaining the first EB stack

[crystal bone]

ughh ok

[shrewd lantern]

yeah im not sure if you can show coup being ready?

my ui doesnt even glow coup when its ready