subtlety

[lilac stag]

I’m just here for to enjoy the chaos of “2 buttons” & “where rupture?!?”

[fathom adder]

the defend the anchor quest for the champion trinket is just the event, right?

[tribal blade]

i think this expac will be very well received by casuals

the zones are so well done

[tribal blade]

you only need to do 1 wave to finish the quest

[fathom adder]

ty

[lilac stag]

@alpine wraith I guess I missed the spark increase. 2h are 4 now

[tribal vortex]

I think 1 is 2 now

so 4 is like 2

[lilac stag]

the quantity doesn’t matter.
rate of acquiring said quantity does.

if they removed valorstones, likely no longer need to combine 1/2 sparks + vs and I’m wondering if I just missed they

[neon pond]

Do we know which contract for renown we pick for most value?

[iron whale]

is gloomblade viable

[upbeat garden]

U have sparks?

[tribal vortex]

They did 1 per week instead of 1 part per week and combining it

Because it was a bit confusing for ppl

[upbeat garden]

Can we get spark now?

[fleet wharf]

Yea, I feel the leveling experience was a ton of fun. really enjoyed the story and the zones in general

[native zodiac]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal vortex]

I use the buff but it shows CDG in the buffs while I just casted it. Is it a bug ?

[graceful osprey]

Yeah, leveling experience has been good. SD on 20 sec cd makes it ready just pretty much all the time. Sub definitely felt better once I got the apex fully.

[fleet wharf]

Yea, I kind of don't like how much of a difference there was between 89 and 90, but apparently we're not the only class with a similar whiplash in experience

[lilac stag]

everyone has the same leveling experience 89-90. Fill 3 bubbles. Sit in silvermoon and craft to 90.

[fleet wharf]

hmm, yea maybe I should've read up on that. I actually did dungeons

[lilac stag]

save 2 delves for 89 turn in

run em early and hold the quests.

[regal venture]

Do you use shuriken storm in single target when you have 'silent storm' buff?

[swift tinsel]

nope

[graceful osprey]

Hey, i need some info about one talent. Why we pick up umbral edge instead of weaponmaster? Other procs only via cheap shot or kidney shot. Because 15% extra damage to clone?

[swift tinsel]

ye

[hollow spear]

Yes

[graceful osprey]

alrighty, thanks

[hollow spear]

Also, you're a chad if you use kidney shot

[swift tinsel]

I keep that shit on cd outside dance lol

[hollow spear]

Non dr'ed kidney shot kinda goated

[graceful osprey]

i use it to interrupt mostly ye. But what procs clones then?

[swift tinsel]

strike, storm, evisc, sectech, bp

with apex talents any damaging builder/spender is capable of spawning them

(if SnD could spawn clones and give +50% additional attack speed that'd be awesome)

[graceful osprey]

oh yeah apex, was wondering that earlier before apex talents more or less. now it makes sense

[swift tinsel]

actually clone SnD could be our skyfury

there's an extra button for folks missing one...

[plush roost]

Everyday we approach shadowed rupture...

[swift tinsel]

it'll be our s2 tier set trust

lol reshii wraps beats a 230 cloak

whole 60 ilvl diff

-0.6%

fuck it imma drop it anyways

[ashen thorn]

is the m+ trickster build in the pinned faqs or the wowhead site the better one? they a bit different

[short radish]

They've really fucked up secondary stats on anything that doesn't have primary

[swift tinsel]

I also feel like I'm back in tww bc I'm getting showered in vers/mastery drops lol

[graceful osprey]

Has anyone else notice Ancient arts when proc all combos, does not crit when use spender

[tribal blade]

i'm a big believer in not dropping a lot of stam for marginal dps increases

[fleet wharf]

just never get hit 4head

[tribal blade]

lets you stand in more stuff 5head 😉

[swift tinsel]

the 4k hp boost is alright but the 6 ilvl jump also

heroics drop 224 right

same as delve 4's (nvm those are 220 4head)

?

[bleak night]

yes

heroics are kinda stinky ngl

the voidstorm pvp world quests are op though

i think im up to 5 224 warmode pieces

[hollow spear]

based on my leveling experience, sectec is broken and needs a hotfix nerf

:^)

[bleak night]

ngl im actually looking forward to leveling my rogue after what i keep hearing about sub leveling lmfao

[fleet wharf]

most mobs die when you press dance+sec tech

[brisk onyx]

compared to cloak, chest/rings are the ones we can't change XD

[minor osprey]

should i macro SB + SD + ST just for opener

i feel like even if i have enough haste i mihgt not get the second sec tech in the shadow dance

[fleet wharf]

I think it's only possible during lust to get the 2nd sec tech in for S1

[swift tinsel]

yeah I've been doing all of those as they pop up, its so easy

kill 5-10 mobs and done

[woeful adder]

Is there hope for sub meta this season?

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/pondering-pondering-orb-orb-wizard-wise-gif-7940760131790659988

[hollow spear]

Can you zoom in? Can barely see what's in the crystal ball!

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons8ball-deez-nuts-8ball-make-a-wish-merps-gif-26138412

[woeful adder]

In terms of oomz

[hollow spear]

what is oomz?

[swift tinsel]

One Of My Zollowers

[tribal vortex]

which one is this ?

[swift tinsel]

the world quests in Slayers Rise in Voidstorm

[hollow spear]

hey that's me

[dry plank]

We don’t count you as rogue Mr warrior 🙂

[lilac stag]

I haven’t been on warrior for so long I forgot what my leap keybind was trying to get it to learn blacksmithing this morning.

[hallow matrix]

I don’t understand the point of the apex talent… it doesn’t seem like a dps increase? One SS gets you one evisc in dance. With apex and 5+ sht you SS twice in a row to then evisc twice in a row… it’s still one SS To one evisc? Someone tell me what I’m missing pls

[swift tinsel]

clones that do extra damage are indeed a dps increase

#subtlety message

[woeful harbor]

You don’t ss twice

[acoustic lodge]

Is there a way to track if ancient arts buff is up?

[swift tinsel]

just the Spell Alert atm

should be added to CDM but that's on blizz

[hallow matrix]

Oh I get it now, so it’s only one strike each time but you’re just always at max combo points because you’re using AA to reset each time

I wonder if that’s intended or if that just plays different to how they thought it would

[swift tinsel]

its certainly not intended to Strike at full cp

if we had the feral Berserk mechanic that stored cp past maximum then maybe but we don't since ShT is capped

[dry plank]

We should be prepared to be gapped 2 times as Char described because it’s obviously unintended and confusing not clear mechanics

[lilac stag]

It’s a minor gain.

I think it falls under their base is easier, skill expression still there

[swift tinsel]

^

it's what the people crave

[fleet wharf]

preplanning had to be gutted, but the jank can stay. yay

[swift tinsel]

you still preplan

wym

[fleet wharf]

what is there to preplan? holding finishers for a few sec before you go into dances?

[swift tinsel]

the same as before?

[lilac stag]

it’s literally same pre plan as TWW

[swift tinsel]

you're still prepping coup, dance/blades, sectech, sht

[fleet wharf]

ok, badly phrased. I just miss the burst sequencing

[swift tinsel]

ah the unnecessary piano aspect

[fleet wharf]

excuse me, a couple dozen of us liked that

[swift tinsel]

there are no piano openers anymore

across the board

[lilac stag]

you clearly weren’t in here trying to explain disjointed cds to assa rogues

[plush roost]

!symbols

Imisshim

[hollow spear]

Charr stockholm syndroming in sub chat

someone help him

[hollow spear]

I should call her

When people show up and reminisce about the times we had flagellation or stuff, I always feel like when I had to take some pal's phone away in the club

[plush roost]

The ol, hand on shoulder "man me and rebecca sure were something man... i should call"

[lilac stag]

and sometimes Rebecca was known as

[plush roost]

I miss torghast sepsis power....

Infinite stacking chain spreading sepsis....

[lilac stag]

I miss torghast on beta

[plush roost]

That was my only experience with slands

Torghast and heroic screechwing

My group wiped to the sonar mechanic and fell apart lmao

[hollow spear]

casting sectec on a questmob, then walking away gives me the "cool guys don't look at explosions" feeling I never knew I needed

[spiral bloom]

Evasion, cloak and sectec also lets you get the "cool guys finish quests in one pull" feeling

[plush roost]

Until you hit level 87ish

Then shuja grimaxe out dps you in the follower dungeon

[spiral bloom]

I don't think I ever stopped, but I did die a few times lol

[plush roost]

Shes just built diff idk

[spiral bloom]

There are some secret giga slammers in forest zone, hardaraniradar or whatever

[hollow spear]

certified pumper

[raven blaze]

why is the opener's first finisher eviscerate instead of ST?

(im brand new with midnight) everything im reading says secret technique is the mega pumper spell and everything revolves around it, so why delay the first use?

[spiral bloom]

Because shadow dance makes your next builder give max cps

And so does stealth

[raven blaze]

that doesn't answer my question

[hollow spear]

because evis gives you slice and dice

[graceful osprey]

Evis gives us SnD

[raven blaze]

thank you

[spiral bloom]

Also that

[raven blaze]

i wonder how much better it is to evis first instead of shadowstrike opener -> pop everything and secret technique, shadowstrike, evis, getting snd on 4th global

instead of on the 2nd global

[tribal vortex]

the point is that it makes no difference to save 2 sec of ST

it probably won't mean another cast

[hollow spear]

If our TC tell me that going Evis first is the play, I just do it

[raven blaze]

if you dont understand why something is optimal then you wont know when you are playing incorrectly

[swift tinsel]

I don't bother eviscing

[tribal vortex]

we treat this matter as it is more than 0.05% dps increase

[raven blaze]

just added buff tracker for shadow techniques since shadowstrike is better if 5 stack according to this disc faq

slowly incorporating more shadow dance + button macros

[swift tinsel]

I mean in tww if you pull all snd logic out of the apl it was 0.004% difference

[raven blaze]

i have no baseline as i did not play tww

[swift tinsel]

you're guaranteed UB anyways

bc you sectech first finisher which gives 2

[raven blaze]

ub?

[tribal vortex]

it is like the discussion for assa : gar or ambush on opener

[swift tinsel]

so no worries about losing Thousand Cuts possible reset

[swift tinsel]

unseen blade

[hollow spear]

idk, evis first is just muscle memory at this point

[raven blaze]

whats unseen blade?

[swift tinsel]

the thing that grants stacks towards coup

[raven blaze]

im still learning all the names of things and theres a lot of diff talents

[swift tinsel]

its a damage hit

from your trickster hero tree

[hollow spear]

Ub slaps

[paper siren]

Bro Which guide do i follow wowhead and icy veins are different

[lilac stag]

what’s different? Things maybe worded slightly different but operationally should be the same.

[raven blaze]

are any of the pvp talents useful? can you use them in pve?

[paper siren]

they got 2 different stat prios

[raven blaze]

in mop smoke bomb is incredibly useful for LoSing stuff and here its a pvp talent

not to mention the raid wide dmg reduc

[grave shore]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

can't use pvp abilities in pve

[lilac stag]

Now it’s called darkness

[worn vector]

How is sub feeling atm? Haven't had a chance to play midnight yet

[hazy breach]

They dont though?

[honest basin]

honestly a lot better than i thought it would be

very much simplified from TWW but still a pretty fun loop imo.

[raven blaze]

trying to get a feeling for retail trinkets, which of these is the weakest?

[warm marlin]

you can run a sim but random open world trinkets are unlikely to be verified to be implemented properly. Until you’re getting endgame trinkets from dungeons/raid id just equip highest ilvl where the effect doesn’t sound obviously useless and call it a day

[worn vector]

Might watch a vid or two on it cheers

[raven blaze]

how much is the flat 30 agi worth compared to 45 versatility tho

is it like mop where you just go flat agi all the way every time? or is 1 agi comparable to 1 minor stat

[hazy breach]

Insanely broadly 1 agi is worth roughly 2 secondaries

[raven blaze]

kk beautiful exactly what I wanted to know

I would've thought 1:3

[warm marlin]

The vers trinket procs a huge amount of primary though

and obviously the other one procs more secondary

[hazy breach]

Just get ilvl

[warm marlin]

without sim ur just guessing, so ilvl is a baseline to use

[hollow spear]

I suppose this is one of the delve quests that you're supposed to hold until level 88?

[raven blaze]

why?

[tepid quartz]

is it bad i consume a ancient arts proc on a sectec?

[raven blaze]

does this mean "shadowstrike over and over" or "shadowstrike one extra time"

so its just one extra time to proc rank 3 of ancient arts?

and this doesnt apply while leveling?

[swift tinsel]

just once

so you strike at full cp with 5+ ShT stacks -> gain Ancient Arts buff -> spend on evisc (sht refills cp) -> strike -> gain Ancient Arts buff if you have 5+ ShT stacks after strike -> spend on evisc

[raven blaze]

yea so its "if you striked and didnt have 5 stacks of ShT yet, but do now, strike again"

[swift tinsel]

if you don't have 5+ sht stacks while at full cp, you don't do that obv

[raven blaze]

right?

[swift tinsel]

if you have full cp but not enough sht stacks you don't strike again

just play that normally

[raven blaze]

no im saying you are at full cp, eviscerate, now at 0, you shadowstrike with 4 or less stacks of ShT, then you get to 5 stacks, you should strike again to get ancient arts

aka "if you just striked but didnt have 5 stacks yet, strike again if you have 5 stacks now? am i understanding it correctly?

[swift tinsel]

if you strike with 4 or less stacks of sht you'd go to zero sht

it still pulls them to fill your cp bar

unless you have premed

[raven blaze]

ah yea

[swift tinsel]

which you only have on your first strike of dance

[raven blaze]

i dont understand then, the optimization is that sometimes you need to shadowstrike an extra time to get ancient arts right?

[swift tinsel]

its not really an extra time

you're not strike->striking

you're just alternating build-finish instead of build-finish-finish

you're purposefully not using the refund granting a second finisher in a row

[raven blaze]

OH

[swift tinsel]

bc of how it is mechanically, it looks at your current ShT stacks when you use a builder

[raven blaze]

i was missing that level 90 you get refunded 5 cp

from finisher

i havent experienced that yet and didnt read it clearly

does it refund more than 5?

[swift tinsel]

and since you're at full cp, if you have 5+ it says "hey you're at 5+ stacks after using a builder, that satisfies the conditions to grant Ancient Arts"

[raven blaze]

ok so its builder, 7, finisher, 5, finisher, 0, builder, 7?

i guess ill see when i reach max

[swift tinsel]

it refunds max cp minus however many you got from the builder you used

that's just normal ShT behavior, it gives you as many stacks as you have as cp when you use a builder and if you have enough to fill your cp bar, it only ever expends that many of your stacks to fill your cp bar

so if you use backstab and have 5 stacks, you get 1cp from backstab and 5cp from ShT

if you have 14 stacks, you get 1cp from backstab and 6cp from ShT bc that maxes your cp

[raven blaze]

and if i have 7 stacks of ShT and ancient arts ready/procced, and i 7 point eviscerate, i go back to 7 cp and have 0 stacks of ShT and ancient arts is procced so its off?

[swift tinsel]

if you have the buff and use evisc it will consume the buff to spawn a clone that casts evisc

then expends your sht stacks to fill your cp bar after using that evisc

and if you manage to have 5+ cp after that refund bc you're getting stacks while this is happening, you can strike with full cp to force-proc Ancient Arts buff again

[raven blaze]

got it

[swift tinsel]

if you have max cp and don't have enough ShT to force the proc, you just evisc

it makes more sense at 90 when you can actually play it

[raven blaze]

i understand it now im just a little slow rn im kinda tired

[swift tinsel]

lol its all good, just reading it makes it kinda nebulous but once you actually play with it it makes way more sense

[raven blaze]

so does this mean sometimes you are
7, finisher, 7, shadowstrike, 7, finisher, 7, shadowstrike, 7, finisher

proccing ancient arts every single time

[swift tinsel]

ye

[raven blaze]

and the reason this is better than finisher finisher builder finisher

is because you get tier 1 ancient arts to proc more

on every single finisher

[swift tinsel]

ye

[raven blaze]

took me a fucking minute but we got there

thanks for the help

[swift tinsel]

np np

[raven blaze]

why am i supposed to hold this quest until level 88 exactly?

[limpid sage]

what's the addon showing multipliers

[hazy breach]

It literally doesnt matter

[raven blaze]

the +14.77%?

thats not a mult, thats %of current level

and its elvui

[hazy breach]

People trying minmax shit that doesnt matter at all

[latent folio]

u get much more xp at 88 than 89

[hazy breach]

Because they have less OP gear than they do on like level 83 (relatively) they want to save as many quests as possible so they dont have to do much questing at those higher levels

[latent folio]

u get like 10K xp at lvl89

[hazy breach]

So unless youre trying to like level 6 characters its completely irrelevant

[hollow spear]

Haven't given it that much thought, but my understanding was that it saved time due to the way it scaled with level

[hazy breach]

Yeah but so do all other quests

[raven blaze]

bro how the fuck do i get to that quest actually

found it , the waypoint was just aids lying

[hazy breach]

People are fiending so much for any type of organized grind like they have in the classic that they spend an infinite amount of time prepping for something to be replaced within literally 1 m+ dungeon once the actual season launches

Its actually wild

[swift tinsel]

that's why I'm on the fishing grind

300 skillpoint carrot dangling

also is Details suddenly throwing an ungodly amount of lua errors for anyone else all of a sudden

[hollow spear]

I've decided not to do any of the farming stuff. If I naturally get the rep I need, might as well. Just thought that I could save some time that I could spend on other stuff outside of the game by saving delve quests up.

[swift tinsel]

bugsack literally getting like 5 per second

[hollow spear]

Haven't even installed details yet since I'm only questing

[summer mica]

same for me, came out of nowhere tho

[swift tinsel]

right

I was on my dh doing some jc stuff then logged back over to my rogue and suddenly it was just a torrent of errors

[summer mica]

same on tbc

[swift tinsel]

[hollow spear]

The clampening has returned

[lean bone]

hey guys, i have a few questions regarding the rotation

1. Should i just natty spam backstab => 7cp eviscerate while SD is on cooldown? Or i can just stand there and auto-atack?
2. Do I use both SD charges (one with sectec) while SB is on cooldown?

thanks

[hollow spear]

You'd overcap on energy just auto attacking, so you do your rotation. You can hold on finishing a couple of seconds before sectec come back up.

Wdym by "while SB is on cooldown"? Between SB windows?

[lean bone]

ye

i mean, while shadowblades is in cooldown, do i use both shadow dance charges one after another? I kinda struggle with this, because if you use it on cooldown one after another it kinda desyncs

[hollow spear]

You only use dance with sectec between blades

[lean bone]

oh

[hollow spear]

When sectec comes up, you immediately dance sectec

[lean bone]

and don't dance even if the second charge comes out of cd, right?

[hollow spear]

You only hold once you get close to blades to not run dry

[hollow spear]

That shouldn't happen

[lean bone]

got it, thanks

[lean rover]

If we macro sectec to dance we wouldn't have to worry about this right

[tribal vortex]

I think that can happen with very low haste like 10 or something

maybe even less

[hardy agate]

is there any guideline from which ilvl we switch the reshii cloak?

[lucid jackal]

hero track

Or until they disable it

[hardy agate]

alright, thank you!

[scenic shell]

Hey folks

[scenic shell]

Oh so even if I get a higher back ilvl I don’t switch it ??

[tribal vortex]

like 220 -240

but they will nerf it for sure

[scenic shell]

Alright ty

[sick jackal]

how big is the gap between ds and tricky boi in m+?

[swift tinsel]

5 milbillion

[sullen hare]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-robot-mafia-mafia-clamps-gangsters-gif-3814055

[hazy breach]

Large enough to never consider DS

[sick jackal]

I wanted to play ds tbh

[sullen hare]

Literally no one will stop you

Follow your heart king

[sick jackal]

I need parses to boost i am afraid

[swift tinsel]

No don't

[sick jackal]

and this guy is stopping me ^

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[sullen hare]

Hap's vision is based on movement so just freeze when he's around and then go back to cancelauraing apex procs to do your rotation like blizzard intended

[sick jackal]

is the cancel aura macros actually a dps increase?

[hazy breach]

But if you want numbers its between 5-15% behind, falling more behind the more targets you add

[sick jackal]

thats a tricky angle i guess unlucky

[tribal vortex]

But why play ds?

[hollow spear]

wdym unlucky

[hazy breach]

The only thing DS is better at is prio

But why bother giving up a large part of your aoe for it when #assassination is even better

[coarse hound]

Do we have AoE blind or no? Im so confused

[sick jackal]

i lik the theme

[sullen hare]

DS rhymes with "hot mess" for a reason

[hazy breach]

They removed it from the tooltip, but not the effect itself

So for now its aoe

[coarse hound]

That makes sense

thanks

[hazy breach]

they might fix it, who knows whats intended and whats not

[sullen hare]

Does it still require airborne?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[torn tide]

the devs sure as shit dont lmao

[sick jackal]

i dont like new assa

i actually prefer the stealth version of aoe dotting more

(assa mains pls dont kill me)

[hollow spear]

my copium take is that they would have fixed it with the last wave of bugfixes we got

if they actually wanted to make it st only

[scenic shell]

I’m an Assa main and I couldn’t agree more , bring the old assa back with good prio damage for m+ ;((

[hazy breach]

Assa still has good prio damage for m+

[scenic shell]

Better than sub u would say ?

[hazy breach]

11000000000%

[hollow spear]

you wouldn't bring current sub for its prio damage I would say

[scenic shell]

Which spec in ur opinion does more overall dmg in m+ ?

[sick basin]

Does sub even have prio other then mark?

All for one maybe?

[alpine wraith]

our prio is using coup lul

[sick jackal]

if they would just tune better ds feels much more better than tww (its still shit)

[scenic shell]

Hahaha

Our auto attacks is our prio dmg

[swift tinsel]

if they tuned ds better and also completely changed how mark functions

baby steps

[sick jackal]

how is this allowed to exist

[sick basin]

Welcome to DS

[tribal vortex]

I mean mark was shit for the whole tww

and now it is just worse

[sick basin]

It's been awful all of TWW

[alpine wraith]

i mean if singular worked with sec techg

it would be a big step

or dn with any finisher

[sick jackal]

all those are like lets say some what acceptable

[sick basin]

Is mark still only on evis?

[tribal vortex]

what ? you can't move the mark

[sick jackal]

but hero tree just closing with no reason is like a discord closer

[alpine wraith]

dn

[tribal vortex]

what are you talking about

you garrote on the opener with assa

[limpid sage]

am I the only one finding the new sub optimizations harder than the old ones? xd

[sick jackal]

lets asssume we understand that with low standarts

[alpine wraith]

what do you mean hard

[sick jackal]

but the tree just going away for no reason as a bug is actually too much

[alpine wraith]

are you running super low haste

[limpid sage]

no just the whole reacting to ShT for clone finishers

[sick basin]

It's always had this jank, it just was tied to vanish instead of full bricked

[alpine wraith]

with enough haste you dont need to react to apexxmax

[grand galleon]

what is fastest delve for rogs to level tiers?

[alpine wraith]

you just finisher builder

sec tech gives 4sht so as long as you have some entering dance you just vibe

[sick jackal]

i just hope they fix this so i can atleast play

[sick basin]

They took an entire xpac to "fix it" and made it worse. I wouldn't hold your breath

[swift tinsel]

mental checklist for Apexmaxxing:

• Do I have full combo points?
• Do I have 5+ Shadow Techniques Stacks?
• Do I have Ancient Arts buff active? Don't Strike, use finisher
• If no Ancient Arts buff active, do I want it active?
  --> Strike with full combo points and 5+ Shadow Techniques stacks to force Ancient Arts buff

[fleet acorn]

hey guys can we go with 90 and kill dimi now for 100% 3x mount?

[sick jackal]

one would assume, the situation with a fully bricked scenario have prio

[limpid sage]

yes but no weakauras

[hazy breach]

Fairly sure it should be not 100% now

[sullen hare]

@ whispyr we got a live one

[swift tinsel]

so you look at your ShT stacks from the buff icon

you can still get this same info

[alpine wraith]

we got 3 on thurstday

[scenic shell]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

but idk about now

[tribal vortex]

maybe it is until midnight proper release

[limpid sage]

and you can't track apex in cdm

[swift tinsel]

you get the Spell Alert

[limpid sage]

huh

[fleet acorn]

hmm interesting then now too

[swift tinsel]

there's a literal spell alert for Ancient Arts

[alpine wraith]

yea it is black and cool

[sick jackal]

is this written on anywhere?

[swift tinsel]

if you don't see it, you likely have Spell Alert Opacity turned off

[alpine wraith]

should be inguides and i also made a video about it

you will get used to it

[swift tinsel]

or all the way to 0%

[swift tinsel]

its in both wowhead and icy veins guides

maybe not that exact format but the same info

[limpid sage]

ohhhh the built in ui stuff

ye I have that completely down to 0 xd

[sick jackal]

thanks

[wheat cloak]

is it worth trying to get a ancient arts proc in your opener? or just send it and get ancient arts up for your next sectec

[swift tinsel]

the wording of the apex talents makes it sound more complicated than it really is

and you don't even have to degen strike at full cp

[hollow spear]

If you want to frame mog your competition, you have to

[alpine wraith]

yea i want to tell people that think sub is ez nice green log bozo

[limpid sage]

is the premed refund bug behavior in sims as well?

[tulip light]

if it happens to appear do we play around ancient arts out of dance? aka backstab at full cp to procc?

[alpine wraith]

yea premed bug is there

nah apexmaxxing is only with strike

[swift tinsel]

ye only a dance thing

[limpid sage]

that would explain why vanish opener isn't a gain

[alpine wraith]

other builders not strong enough

[swift tinsel]

otherwise we just chill

[torn tide]

surely sub isnt atill one of the more bugged slecs

[alpine wraith]

you can try to apex coups but i think we havent found a win

[swift tinsel]

there's also not really a practical benefit to vanish opener

[torn tide]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[swift tinsel]

I only really force apex coups in aoe atm

now that the bug is fixed

[torn tide]

what are apex coups?

[swift tinsel]

consuming Ancient Arts with coup

[limpid sage]

what dps loss is it to ignore it entirely

[swift tinsel]

ignore what

[alpine wraith]

around 1.5% in st

[limpid sage]

the apex degen cheese

[alpine wraith]

up to 4 targets it is a mild gain lowering as it goes up

[swift tinsel]

oh ye 1.5%

yeah in aoe I only do it to coup otherwise its storm - bp - bp time

[limpid sage]

is this for forcing it on every evis or only coups?

[swift tinsel]

erry finisher

[limpid sage]

I guess I could just check the APL as well xd

[torn tide]

for doing double bp in aoe, do we count 2 targets as aoe too?

[swift tinsel]

build-finish-build-finish during dance

[torn tide]

like for that duo boss in windrunner spire or that boss in murder row

[alpine wraith]

yea bp is 2 targets

[flint turtle]

cant restealth during shadowdance out of combat. is that intentional or a bug?

[lean bone]

oh btw, i think i mess up my opener big time (M+ trickster build)

you should go strike > evi > strike > blades > dance + sectec and so on, right?

but for some reason i go strike > evi > and few more strikes before the cooldowns

what am i doing wrong?

[alpine wraith]

yea cant stealth while dance is up

[limpid sage]

you need to put cancelaura shadow dance on your stealth

[left ledge]

is bug sheet up to date

[alpine wraith]

it is a fix for a krangle they did in legion

[left ledge]

more specifically, is sectec still bugged with apex

[alpine wraith]

so they just cba

think it is still bugged but phys hit is decently hard it is not a loss to use with it

[flint turtle]

pog thanks!

[left ledge]

alr ty

[swift tinsel]

I still feel kinda gross apexing sectech but it be what it be

doesn't happen terribly often

[alpine wraith]

well what i dont remember what happens is if you apex with premed

does it disable apex or just krangle and you get no spend on sht

[swift tinsel]

I think it krangles and blocks the refund

[left ledge]

you just dont get the refund

[alpine wraith]

ah yea you still get the dmg i guess

[limpid sage]

do you guys know when I should swap out reshii boots

considering cloak is first at hero track

but since it's a 50% boost and the stat budget on boots are higher I'd imagine it's lower than hero for boots?

[wheat cloak]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[swift tinsel]

cloak not being replaced until hero track sounds off

considering it was sub-1% ahead of a 230 vers/mastery cloak

[lean bone]

can someone share stealth + cancelaura macro? im kinda dumb to make it myself

[swift tinsel]

/cancelaura Shadow Dance
/cast Stealth

[lean bone]

thanks a alot

[quick fox]

Which is the best Dark Moon Trinket for Sub rogue?

[swift tinsel]

a 243 (4/6 vet track) cloak beats reshii wraps on its own so hero track sounds really beyond

[sullen hare]

Pretty sure they're all doodoo but fuu's wowhead guide has bis trinkets in it

Iirc most will go 1:30 on use and a passive both from raid

[long lantern]

does it matter the order of shadow dance/shadow blades ?

[limpid sage]

ez clap

[limpid sage]

I'm just repeating what guy said

[warm marlin]

Without a lot of haste it is mechanically quite hard to execute yes

[limpid sage]

and I trust him

blindly

[limpid sage]

ye

[swift tinsel]

[limpid sage]

but I found that I was also overcomplicating it for myself

it is indeed just builder->finisher->builder->finisher xd

[warm marlin]

could be different with skyfury but at 198 haste I wasn’t consistently getting to 5sht

[limpid sage]

with the exception of a few times where it went under

[warm marlin]

So reacting was pretty difficult

[limpid sage]

I'm at 13%

but it's only like once or twice where I haven't gotten enough

[warm marlin]

that’s what like 400 something?

[warm marlin]

No

As long as they are all before your gcd

[long lantern]

ty

[limpid sage]

ya 439

[warm marlin]

real ones on the 200 train

[frigid prawn]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[odd sandal]

What is the cancel dance macro?

[lilac stag]

I think both the cloak and boots need to be 50 ilvl above the mythic set

[wide shale]

As Trickster: Use Shadowstrike even if you are on full combo points if you have 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques up to trigger Ancient Arts. Only during Shadow Dance on low target counts (at maximum 4 targets).

can someone explain this more

So - when i have 5+ shadow trechnqiues

i send SS?

[hazy breach]

If you do not have the apex up

And you can trigger it

Trigger it

[wide shale]

and if in aoe, you can use shuriekns torm to trigger, 5+ targets?

thats the dark shadow ( ) we see around our charcater right, that means its up?

[hazy breach]

No

In aoe you just dont do it

[grand wyvern]

feels so wrong to spam ss and evis and never move from 7 cps in dance yet here we are

[sullen hare]

Pretty sure sub is second only to outlaw for stupid bullshit optimizations. Personally I'm hoping there's eventually a cook for assassination that just abandons fok completely

For no reason other than the fact that I love chaos and being part of a class that's one of blizzard's problem children

[hallow matrix]

Gonna faction change to ally, dwarf/nelf/velf someone help pick

[normal compass]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

you get over it

[tulip light]

did they nerf feather trinket from 1.5min to 2min? 😮

[sullen hare]

Worgen

Out of that list velf. But worgen is my answer

[hazy breach]

It was always 2 min

[tulip light]

im tripping so hard then

[plush roost]

2 min and less secondary than 1.5m trinkets

Also i realized they never tuned freightrunner flask on beta because its a murder row drop and thats not in the season XDDzd

They just gave us a mythic one for funsies

[hazy breach]

I mean they didnt tune trinkets at all during beta anyway

They only did once it went live with the +69% on damage trinkets and the -25% on alnseer

As far as i could tell it still seems to be the best trinket

Just by 1% instead of 3%

[plush roost]

I think latchs hook

Still needs another 69% amp, about 6 more times

[lunar widget]

are sims good for sub on raidbots?

[hazy breach]

yes

[lunar widget]

awesome thanks

[chilly talon]

#showtooltip
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Secret Technique
/use Tempered Potion
/use 13
/use 14

Is secret technique supposed to be before pot and trinkets in this macro?

[warm marlin]

you want to use trinkets/pots before dance, and secret technique at the bottom after all the buffs are applied

[hazy breach]

I would suggest to remove dance/sectech from that and instead use your regular sectech+dance macro right after pressing the blades macro

Because otherwise your dance duration does not benefit from tempered pot (or the haste on-use later on in the season)

[vale pine]

yep, nothing rly changes

just no more extreme outliner

[jaunty heath]

Is it a massive dps loss to use shuriken storm during dance on 2t? I get so caught up during dungeons I keep forgetting to shift to shadowstrike in these circumstances

[hazy breach]

no

[jaunty heath]

Thank you

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torpid echo]

Quick 2 questions. Bear with me as I started to play sub in pre-patch so still fairly new to the spec!
In pre-patch DS was better for Pure ST and for Raid Cleave and M+ we would go Trickster.
According to the wowhead guide it's trickster all the way now, is it because trickster is more friendly for new players or it's actually ahead in terms of output?

The other question was about builds, In pre-patch there was a pure ST build, a Cleave one and a M+ one, but rn I only see Raid, M+ and Delve. Do we only use 1build in raid?

Thanks!

[remote knot]

incredibly minor nitpick - I wish the Shadow Clones were just a bit more visible. kinda wish they were more "Clone" and less "Shadow", if that makes sense.

[tulip light]

trickster better for all content - builds are updaten and the only switch is Weapon master / potent poweder

[tribal vortex]

is this for sec tec or also for dance?

[hazy breach]

For dance

[zenith hollow]

Is there a way to get a sound trigger on the combo point refunds?

[mighty citrus]

do you actually have then single dance macro and dancesectec macro?

[hazy breach]

Dont really need a singledance macro

[mighty citrus]

dont you find yourself in a situation, where you have not full cp but dances are rdy?

[alpine wraith]

go back in time 4 secs and not use a finisher

[tribal vortex]

also what I found to work for me until I learn how to play is cast dance when low energy so sec tec isn't casted 😂

[torpid echo]

do we ever double finisher or we always overcap cps during dance?

it's so weird to see a full cp bar and press and builder xD

[warm marlin]

[plush roost]

Bad habit creator detected holy

[limpid sage]

Thank you sigma

[tribal vortex]

one does what one has to do.

[crimson thorn]

Hi guys, we only activate Shadow Dance if Secret Tec its ready to be used? (talking outside Shadow Blades)

[sturdy moat]

Didn't buy early access, how does rogue feel compared to other melees? Are we overshadowed until first tuning pass or does sub feel fine

[chrome palm]

we only have heroics dungeons right now

on beta sub/outlaw are on the better end for melee

[limpid sage]

Yepper besides if boss is about to die ofc

[sturdy moat]

I heard sin feels pretty gutted

[swift tinsel]

Don’t even look at meters in normal dungeons if even one person is below 90

Honestly delves are faster gearing than heroics if you’re just lfg’ing it

Currently a fishing/herbalism main

Also Blizz for the love of god turn some of the tranquil bloom into argentleaf

[keen kayak]

Are there any other instances where you would spend the none ST aligned dance charge?

Sometimes I feel like I am sitting on a charge if I'm holding off on SB for a damage phase or some other reason.

For whatever reason my head is just refusing to do the maths in cooldowns with dance and blades

[limpid sage]

It’s prob worth it to use a dance charge naked without sectec if you’re holding for 10 sec assuming you’ll overcap cd by those 10 sec

And assuming you really want the sectec at that exact 10 second mark, because else you’d just send it

This is feelcraft though

[keen kayak]

Fair, I've only picked rogue back up yesterday after not playing it for 10 years.

Im sure I'll wrap my head around it eventually. Last question, dance does start recharge on case doesn't it? Not after the 6 seconds?

[fleet acorn]

feels good soon 18% haste cap

[limpid sage]

Ye starts immediately

[keen kayak]

Brill thanks mate

[west tide]

i got 19% 225

[quasi portal]

which darkmoon card

[fleet acorn]

and rest?

[west tide]

no darkmoon on

[fleet acorn]

y my mastery into 2 haste offpieces should be gucci

[fleet acorn]

done 😄

[west tide]

nice!

im addicted to collectin pvp items rn

[crimson thorn]

Its ok to swap the TWW Cape and boots for new 220 ilvl equip?

[fleet acorn]

idk i just did it

[quasi portal]

is apex talent bugged?

or I dont understand it

[warm marlin]

sim told me cloak was very strong, boots could be replaced at 220

but replacing cloak bad

[alpine wraith]

both at 230 or so was fine for me but cloak is very strong yea

[timber zenith]

What about our embellishments? I would guess we ditch them pretty early

[wet anvil]

can someone send me this but correct not working for me

[swift tinsel]

that is correct

[alpine wraith]

do you have that macro on your stealth bar or a bar that does not change

[swift tinsel]

do you have each in a separate line in the macro

[wet anvil]

normal bar

[swift tinsel]

screenshot how you have the macro set up

[wet anvil]

the icon is not even changing when i press save

[swift tinsel]

do you think its not working bc the icon doesn't change or is it actually not casting coup

[wet anvil]

isnt it becuse i still didnt unlocked the talent?

[alpine wraith]

it works when coup gets enabled

no just it will use bp

and coup when available

just hit some dummies

and you'll see

[wicked bear]

It's trying to get the Coup tool tip so that's why it's a ?. It functions just won't show Black Powder correctly unless you have #showtooltip Black Powder if you need it

[wet anvil]

oh

so with this macro i dont need to track CDG?

[wicked bear]

Correct

[wet anvil]

and in aoe we press BP over evis right

[raven blaze]

bro my inputs feel so fucking slow, like i have about 1s left on shadow dance and my global is up and i cant get an input off before the buff ends , constantly

mop feels buttery smooth even when global gets as low as 0.5s GCD

but midnight it feels like im wading through glue

i have 32 ms and a strong connection and good FPS

[limpid sage]

2 and above is BP territory

[raven blaze]

even TBC feels smooth compared to this

[limpid sage]

Ya think servers are a bit funky at times

[wet anvil]

2 and above bp? thats sus 😄

wouldnt be 2-3 targets evis better?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[raven blaze]

@wet anvil

5 vs 3+3

hope that helps

[swift tinsel]

blizz tooltips kekw

[hazy breach]

Tbf wow tooltips numbers are insanely inaccurate

To the point that you should never use them for anything really

[raven blaze]

my favorite part of mop is where sub rogue's highest dmg spell is rupture and it deals like 60% more dmg than eviscerate but the tooltip number is lower by 15%

[raven blaze]

they just dont take into account fucking anything at all but all the damage amps to sub rogue are like "finishers do x more dmg" and not "eviscerate does xyz"

compared to like sanguinary vein existing

whats the best delve for leveling and gearing 89->90? im bored of doing the one i happened to be nearby

or should i be questing for rep idk how gearing works in midnight

[hazy breach]

Most of them yes, but not all

[swift tinsel]

can honestly just do world quests for gear

Slayers Rise quests give 224 once your ilvl is okayish

prey gives gear

[wet anvil]

last question. in full cds do we use shuriken to generate points or shadow strike

[swift tinsel]

delves give gear

[raven blaze]

i already did all the world quests for gear

delve gave me 205 ilvl trinket

[swift tinsel]

flexing early access gear poggies

[raven blaze]

is slayers rise 90? or 89

this is the entire expansion right? im not missing a zone where there are more world quests?

just these 5

[swift tinsel]

its in voidstorm

north section

[raven blaze]

my maps empty

is it because im 89?

[fleet acorn]

little flex on the mount

[swift tinsel]

yall gotta spend less time worrying about gear and more time fishing tbh

[hazy breach]

Yes

[raven blaze]

which of the two 89 voidstorm delves is more fun

[wet anvil]

@fleet acorn

can i pm u

[fleet acorn]

ye but im gonna go sleep now so will check tomorrow

[raven blaze]

do world quests give higher level gear when youre 90?

or is it still 198

[swift tinsel]

everything gives higher ilvl when you're 90

[raven blaze]

you guys should but that BP/coup macro in the faq

and if it is already put like big red arrows arround it

[swift tinsel]

its not really that good of a thing

bc there are definitely times you have coup ready and don't wanna mindlessly spend it over just bp

[raven blaze]

ehhhhhh

[swift tinsel]

enlighten me

[raven blaze]

coup gives u 20% finisher buff is so good

youd need a big pack of lots of targets at low enough hp that you arent ognna get the like 3 casts you need of bp afterwards

for it to be dmg gain

[hazy breach]

You have pretty much 100% uptime on flawless form anyway

[swift tinsel]

yeah now that it doesn't ironfur its maintained very easily

[raven blaze]

oh do you really? im struggling mega hard to keep track of buffs

"ironfur"?

[hazy breach]

Well its not something you think about

Its just passively up

[swift tinsel]

Ironfur - each stack has its own unique duration

like the eponymous guardian druid ability

[raven blaze]

ah

funnily enough, there is a mechanc in league of legends that works that exact way

bel'veth's Q has 4 directions and theyre all tracked independently, but its the only thing in the gamel ike that so we dont have a term for it

so how many targets do you stop shadowstriking during dance to build points?

[half comet]

@faq

[raven blaze]

oh this means at 3 start fanning?

i didnt understand the phrasing and forgot about it

[swift tinsel]

at 2 outside of dance, at 3 inside of dance

[raven blaze]

why does that feel wrong

my shadowstrike is hitting for over 9000 and my shuriken only hits for 1500

[swift tinsel]

bc storm used to suck

[raven blaze]

i never played tww

the maths not mathing to me

[swift tinsel]

[raven blaze]

ah its prob the added crit chance from trickster

since if neither crits, strike does more on 3

but its more likely to crit than strike

[hazy breach]

It also gives more combo points

[raven blaze]

if it was just the combo points being the reason why then thered need to be a disclaimer saying "but strike is better on 3 if u have mega fuckton of ShT stacks"

[hazy breach]

Well the guides are made for lvl 90

Youre not overcapping many sht stacks

[oblique grove]

is there any secret rogue weapon thing like the wax

[pastel quarry]

what's the addon that shows the ilvl of stuff

[raven blaze]

so does facing requirements exist for melee dps in midnight? like parrying in the front

[swift tinsel]

yes

[hazy breach]

For raid bosses yes

(not really for trickster though)

[plush roost]

Hello is this eu top lane terrorist crucile in the sub rogue channel

[raven blaze]

im na top lane terrorist tyvm

[ionic star]

As :Trickster: during :ShadowDance: with 3 or less targets, if you are at full combo points but have 5 or more stacks of :shadowtechniques: cast :ShadowStrike: (yes at full combo points) to trigger :ancientarts:.
Does this means just :ShadowStrike: then finishing move，or just :ShadowStrike: and no finishing move?

[raven blaze]

ok whats the best way to gear up so i can queue heroics? is it delves or dungeons

or will quests give me 220+ gear aswell?

[tidal marsh]

World quests yeh

[gray jungle]

Most of my gear from void storm world quests, the PvP ones

[tidal marsh]

The top part of Voidstorm had 224 ones too

[wide shale]

best addon for poison reminder?

lmao

[wide shale]

my hero

[tidal marsh]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/klickers-poison-reminder

This one exists too

[raven blaze]

im noob and already did all the world quests that give gear at level 89 :I i didnt think theyd scale

[tidal marsh]

Ooft

[short radish]

make sure you guys update details before loading in today. issue should be resolved with the update

[tidal marsh]

I guess you could just splurge a bunch of money on AH gear

but the 220 ilevel ones are preeeetty expensive

[raven blaze]

im playing retail for the first time ever with midnight preorder

i got 20500g aka nothin

[pearl swan]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest dome]

any smart ppl know if its somehow possible to track ancient arts?

[pearl swan]

look at ur sht and track premed

[golden forge]

so I have a question, how does the macro work to use shadow tech in the same press as dance when you would Sstrike >evis>sdance+secret tech but you'd be at 0 combo points here

how does that work?

[hazy breach]

Besides the two giant shadowy glows in the middle of your screeen not really

[hazy breach]

Well you wouldnt use it at 0 cp

[golden forge]

would you have a separate keybind for the full combo then and not use that for opener?

[hazy breach]

No just dont eviscerate in the opener

Just send immediately

[honest dome]

damn they're for sure ugly

[golden forge]

oh

strike > full macro dps > normal rotation

[tough umbra]

If you didn't figure this out I believe I might have, I didn't see if anyone helped you later. The macro needs to be on your normal bar and also the same spot on your stealth bar.

[left ledge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hybrid beacon]

have you guys been leveling as ds or trickster? ive done 3 levels with trickster and might switch over

[jaunty heath]

As :Trickster: during :ShadowDance: with 3 or less targets, if you have 5 or more stacks of :shadowtechniques:, and :ancientarts: is not up, then cast :ShadowStrike: (even at full combo points) to trigger :ancientarts:. this is kinda crazy to track isnt it

does it mean im not using two finishers in row?

[hazy breach]

yes

[jaunty heath]

damn

thats kinda killing whole purpose of those refunds 😄

idk sound crazy

and its breaking completly my muscle memory too 😄

surely realz could tune it so not worth as it create some gameplay loop which is not wanted by blizzard, like were we spamming ruptures to proc set bonus back in the days on beta

its really crazy playing like that even on dummy 😄

do you % number whats difference between this and ignoring it? Just wondering what diff its

[hazy breach]

~1.5%

[jaunty heath]

hm thats more than i though 😄

btw i just look briefly at wowhead opener is it correct? like shadowstrike evis dance blades strike ?

i thogh we go cds before dance and dance at full cp into sectech or?

[plush roost]

Ha this guy thinks realz is workin on rogue

Hehe

[lilac stag]

Pretty sure most of the openers were very close. I’m running strike evis vanish strike cds or just strike into cds if the extra 2 gcds in opener mess up timing later.

[neon escarp]

hey guys si if i understand right, wen im in SD and have 5or more stacs of ST i use SS on 4 targets or less ? even at full cp ?

[west tide]

outside of dance its not as good to do?

also wb like niche situations like entering dance with max combo points at 5+ sht ive been doing the strike to proc apex after i press shd at max cp just to see how it feel

[radiant swift]

its only for st

for aoe its holding coup and apexing iirc

[west tide]

yeah outside of dance in st i was wondering

cause u can do it too

[radiant swift]

think its only worth during dance

[west tide]

well not quite st like 4 or lower

3

[radiant swift]

think st ment realy just apexing evis

and if u have reoccuring adds u can do the coup tech

[raven blaze]

are delves solo only?

[spring citrus]

is there a way to get dance macabre stacks to show on cd manager?

[golden forge]

get a job at blizz and undo the recent changes to weakauras

[spring citrus]

okay will be my 5 year plan

next triliogy it will be on there

[golden forge]

hell yeha bro!

[hazy breach]

Well you dont really get much sht stacks outside of dance

[hazy breach]

Theres no stacks anymore

[hazy breach]

No you can do it with a group

[golden forge]

so I used the new macro for blades+dance+stech and my dps went up good

then I realised mid dungeon I wasn't tracking coup de grace with fuu's cd manager

now I have the macro for that and powder

I should be top parsing now

[spring citrus]

so do you just smack tech on full cp in dance then?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[spring citrus]

oh ez

[hazy breach]

!guides and/or #subtlety-faq

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[spring citrus]

i cant read

[raven blaze]

do higher level delves give better gear? or should i spam delve 1

[golden forge]

delves don't give better gear until 8s really

[raven blaze]

it says it gives 201 regardless of tier 1 or 4 but

maybe it has better upgrade chance idk

[golden forge]

well 201 isn't anything right now

[west tide]

delve 7 is good

224 gear drops and 227 warbound

[raven blaze]

i thouight it was locked to delve 5?

[west tide]

nope u can go to 7

[raven blaze]

is gearing easier or harder in groups?

[swift tinsel]

if you have an armor stack that helps

[warm marlin]

will quite literally almost never get to cast a finisher as a result

takes forever to get sht outside dance

[tribal blade]

@lilac stag holy shit sin is so much more chill to play in dungeons now

feels easier than sub

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/sleepy-so-sleepy-gif-18378710118461069279

[lilac stag]

It is. lol

[west tide]

i just mean like if dance ends and im at like 5+ stacks of sht i can send a backstab and proc my apexx

[tribal blade]

more buttons for sure, but overall pretty damn eassy

[lilac stag]

Button count does not equal spec complexity at the ceiling.

[tribal blade]

only issue is desyncing KB from DM if things don't go well

yeah sub requires you to react to your CPs far more aggressively

and is faster feels like

[lilac stag]

I am loving my sht bar

[swift tinsel]

same I don't even look at my cp bar in dance lol

[lilac stag]

yeah I’m debating covering the base cps instead of the sht bar with my Sblades bar

[long sun]

!buglist

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[fiery fog]

those macros make sub feels so easy tbh
the coup/bp macro sometimes makes me press it and nothing is happening because im not in range for coup xd

[golden forge]

yeah I'm going to have to work on that lol

[long sun]

so like tww it seems we don't get refund after changing stances

like entering dance

if we enter with apex talent active and use finisher

[swift tinsel]

premed be buggin

blocks the refund

[long sun]

is this something that would change the way we play at all

like

err sec i thought of a scenario but idk if it plays out this way

-> enter dance at max cps, more than 5 shadow techniques stacks -> use builder (triggering apex) -> finisher -> no refund because of stance change

idk if that sequence happens exactly that way

but if so my question is if its worth fishing for the apex talent without the refund

[hazy breach]

Using the builder uses premed

And having it cancel on sectech is fine as sectech clones are whatever anyway

[raven blaze]

i miss rupture :(

[plush roost]

It has nothing to do with stance change, its just premediation bugging out refunds like it did in tww

[hazy breach]

You don't want to dance>coup at full cp is all

[long sun]

o rly? i always chalked it up to stance change that makes more sense

so u just dont get refunds with premed active

[plush roost]

Yep

[long sun]

i c ty

[long sun]

why is this?"

[plush roost]

So either builder first gcd to proc apex or just dont apex sec tec (not a big deal)

[plush roost]

U dont apex coup cause of premed bug which does turbo damage

Youd have to dance > build > coup

[long sun]

im confused - so ur saying i want to proc apex talent before using coup for big dam, but it doesn't matter for sectec?

is sectec not equally important?

[plush roost]

Sec tec only apex phsy dam

Is also bugged

So apex sec tec is w.e, good in aoe since sht surplus but w.e in st

[long sun]

i seeeeeeeee

ok heard

is there ever a world its correct to go builder -> builder (proc apex talent) -> finisher? i've only been playing around apex talent on combo point refunds, i never rly builder twice inside of dance

[graceful rock]

I think so

like if you strike

[plush roost]

Yeah its optimal in fact iirc

[graceful rock]

max cps, and proc'd coup, but now you have 5 shts, you strike again

[long sun]

gotcha - i dont think it happens often bc usually the first builder will deplete ur shadow techniques stacks

[plush roost]

First evis (ancient arts) is supercharge coup, second is normal. Third is sec tec apex (logs wont specify) See disparity

[long sun]

but idk maybe u have hella stacks going into it

[graceful rock]

some times it wont bc of premed

[long sun]

o i forget premed again

[graceful rock]

w premed

[long sun]

maybe it does happen more often than i think then

now i know'

[graceful rock]

in inbetween dances, probs not

opener probably

[frail kindle]

wheres this from

[long sun]

or if u enter dance with no cps but >5 shadow technique stacks

like u do some poolin

btw more questions i keep thinking of

do i ever try to proc apex talent otuside of dance

or do i not rly care

[hazy breach]

Kinda hard to

[frail kindle]

bro i thought this spec was braindead, ur frying my brain with all these optimizations wtf

[long sun]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

Because you Regen so much less sht stacks

[long sun]

right

[long sun]

i mean there's a wordl this interaction gets fixed with the tuning of a knob

and this entire convo becomes a moot point

so

idk how much its worth stressing over

[swift tinsel]

and its not like its some astronomical gain too

[frail kindle]

fair, i havent bothered to look into any optimizations for any specs yet ive just been fully yoloing things lol

[swift tinsel]

so 95% of people playing the spec don't even really need to consider it

[long sun]

how much of a gain is it exactly?

[swift tinsel]

~1.5%

[long sun]

lol ok there u go

[plush roost]

I did a ton of 200 haste sub keys on beta and usually youd be ooe a few seconds before dance and pool a bit. Low haste also prefers builder first so the rotation ended up being pool 3-5 seconds, dance > storm(eat premed) > apex sec tec > refund > bp or strike prio mob+apex coup

In ST you pool dont pool much at all, even low haste, just stop spending cp 3-4 globals before dance

[long sun]

based shadowstrike prio damage

gotcha that makes sense

[plush roost]

On high haste with skyfury ur like infinite sht tho so pooling is w.e

[long sun]

do u ever intentionally not use apex on BP if it means u'll have it for your next finisher (i.e. coup) if u have a guarenteed unseen blade on next builder

[plush roost]

This is vibes based, but if im not in dance in aoe, and i proc coup, i just wait for next dance unless its literally 18 seconds away

And if im in dance, ur infinite sht anyway

Lot of the time its like sec tec, storm apex bp bp storm apex coup lmao

[long sun]

right

aight w learning i have acquired knowledge i will now go put into practice

[plush roost]

Ive tried forcing apex supercharger coup but i have no math behind it just vibes and the vibes were "meh"

[long sun]

ya i hear u

[plush roost]

If it aligns it aligns and ur happy

[long sun]

and if it doesn't u ponder whether or not alignign would b better

but nobody knows

[plush roost]

Tho it is insane burst so idk maybe relevant for dragon boss or beloran adds or smthn

Thats a wait to see timings on fight kinda thing

[long sun]

yeah if situation calls for it type beat

lowk i do think its cooked that sub has the gameplay element of using builder at max cps but it definitely adds some much needed flavor to the spec

i appreciate

[plush roost]

I just imagine sht is a 21 cp bar hehe

[hazy breach]

Sim didnt seem to care if you just sent coup on cd or made sure it was always during dance+apex (during aoe)

So id say its def worth holding for adds spawns or whatever

[golden forge]

ok im sure this is somewhere, but when do we drop reshi?

[brisk onyx]

Should we only use coup+bp macro in dance? avoid accidentally using coup before dance begins

[sacred basalt]

So are m0's coming out tomorrow with the full release or tuesday after reset?

[raven blaze]

sub offhand can be anything right?

[hazy breach]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[raven blaze]

damn.

[halcyon solar]

Am I tripping, or does the proc of our apex disappear when you pop dance?

I keep getting procs, pressing dance, using a spender, but then not getting a refund

[hazy breach]

Yes, the refund is bugged and cannot happen while you have premeditation active

But its fine

[halcyon solar]

That makes sense

[hazy breach]

Sectech isnt important to apex anyway as it doesnt do much more than a regular eviscerate clone

[halcyon solar]

Is there any point in prioritizing apexing black powder in aoe for the clone damage, then spending the cp refresh on Sectech?

[hazy breach]

na

[halcyon solar]

Gotcha, much appreciated

[short radish]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[short radish]

based fuu already got it ready.

[rich canopy]

Are Shadow Techniques stacks super delayed in updating for anyone else?

[brisk onyx]

it was delayed during all prepatch

for me

so idk

[rich canopy]

I don't fully understand the apex talent

Does that mean that we never Eviscerate during dance if we're over 5 stacks?

[hazy breach]

No

[brisk onyx]

@hazy breach Should we only use coup+bp macro in dance? avoid accidentally using coup before dance begins. or its fine to send coup on cd?

[hazy breach]

Read the message literally just above the previous time you asked about it

[brisk onyx]

I will see

sorry cuz I open dc

[chrome palm]

if strike kills something it will consume ub without granting eb :(

also did they fix the ub targetting bug with storm?

[brisk onyx]

I think the storm one is fixed

[chrome palm]

pretty sure it hits target if its in melee range

ah ok

[shell willow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hexed dagger]

at what point do we replace embellished items from last season?

and the reshii wraps

[hardy agate]

reshii wraps with hero track, embelishments no idea

[glacial eagle]

fr? we're keeping the cloak all the way to hero track?

even the 50 ilvl advantage for adventurer isn't enough to cover for procs?

[bleak night]

i got rid of it so my ilvl would be higher

[vale pine]

good morning lovely people

[fallow nimbus]

Do we really keep reshii wraps until hero track cloak?

And what about the boots then?

[vestal escarp]

Bad morning lovely people

[keen dome]

Good morning, Fuu.

I hope we get a poison toggle.

[pulsar hemlock]

we'll get a 12% nerf and like it

The way God intended

[maiden oar]

im submitting restoration requests for all my rings+necks

maybe shirt idk

[maiden oar]

surely not boots too

[keen dome]

I can't imagine boots are worth it versus 220+ pieces

[brisk onyx]

Boot can change early, my 224 cri/haste cloak just a little behind reshii ~0.2% so I think it can be changed for more hp

[maiden oar]

whats the verdict on rings/neck/shirt

rn they sim pretty good but idk if they will be good in heroic week

[keen dome]

shirt is very important

I jsut swapped to new rings when they had more stats

[maiden oar]

the gems and enchants from tww are crazy

i think my current rings cnanot compete

[maiden oar]

or are u gemming/enchanting the rings u have rn

[keen dome]

oh no gemming / enchanting anything yet

The only tww item I still have is my chest which is 170 + the enchant at rank 3