subtlety

[tribal blade]

part of it is i really like the music, and wow's music is a big one for me

[vale pine]

i play without sound usually^^

[tribal blade]

oh NO

i love having sound active

i can't play without it

[lilac stag]

The voice acting is well done as always

[hollow spear]

I play the sound for the first week or so

until I've seen everything twice

then I go back to music

[modern sentinel]

forgot to make daggers,have to lvl as outlaw abit

seems fine

[vale pine]

probably will unmute wow too for cut scenes/etc

[torn tide]

i could never play without sound

[vale pine]

many games use sound as an way to keep you engaged, so it can be very manipulative

i noticed this when plaiyng some casual games

even tho you basically wasting time, the right sound made you anticipate what came next

keeping you engaged longer than you wanted

[fleet acorn]

Could Never Play without spotify playlist

[hollow spear]

Does anyone of you use orbit? I cannot get it to work with ArcUI

I like orbit's unit frames, but if I activate them, it also adds its energy and cp bars (and I am too stupid to get rid of those)

[lilac stag]

KBP does, but only orbit.

ArcUI works with UUF just fine.

some of the more all in ones it’s likely struggles with

[hollow spear]

uuf is unhalted unit frames?

[lilac stag]

ye

[hollow spear]

rad

will probably have to look into that

I kinda liked orbit's canvas concept

but it doesn't like arcui

[lilac stag]

ye

I’m running arc, Uuf, platynaor and baganator.

everything. Else is default I think

[sick dagger]

Are u having trouble with anchors with abilities that change icon?

[lilac stag]

idk what you’re trying to ask

[vale pine]

its fuu spelled backwards

[hollow spear]

truu

so you are taking fuull credit?

[vale pine]

i see what you did there

[azure thicket]

[sick dagger]

If u have unitframes anchored to the cooldown viewer, when u get coup/4 stacks of eb, those anchors break. Do u have the same problem or have u not anchored?

[lilac stag]

I have zero issues with arc and Uuf. idk what cooldown viewer is, or why you’re anchoring to a UF

nothing you’ve got is changing an ability. You don’t have evicerate viewable.

[hollow spear]

platynator already goated

[grand galleon]

is platynator better than plater?

[hollow spear]

I try to anchor as little as possible

[sick dagger]

Yee ill have to change that. I used at global profile for all classes so i didnt have to move unitframes for every class individually

[lilac stag]

You don’t without anchors

you’re just saving profiles

[sick dagger]

Some classes/specs have more or less cds that are necessary to track

[lilac stag]

That has nothing to do with anchors

[sick dagger]

So with it anchored it moves accordingly

[lilac stag]

Your cds are always dead center

your UF is always same spot

Your resource bar(s) are the same

if you start changing those you’re forcing your eyes to look at different locations for different specs

[hollow spear]

but what if I play balance druid and look out of the window while I play?

[lilac stag]

you get a good view hopefully

sub arguably has some of the least CDs to track, it's the same resource size for all three specs.

but you do you kinda thing

[hollow spear]

I am a big shadow dance bar proponent

[sick dagger]

I see ur point. Move the unitframes further out I guess. I was trying to keep the distance between cds and unitframes the same

No matter how many essentials i tracked

[lilac stag]

How often are you actually looking at your unit frame?

stick on on the side and let them be.

[sick dagger]

True haha. Must be an ocd kind of thing

[lilac stag]

same reason why I don’t get people showing every defensive all the time. I’d like that visual space to see shit.

again ui is personal but from a design stand point some of the stuff I see generates an

[void ocean]

Afternoon kings, hows early access, u toppin meters?

[lilac stag]

Doing less than bear druid

[void ocean]

Dead spec, gotcha

[torpid echo]

Only demo can outdps then tbh x)

[visual lark]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sly shore]

you just turn off the cdm component in addons no?

[lilac stag]

Even if you do a lot won’t play nice

[sly shore]

turn off cooldown manager and player utilities

[lilac stag]

They edit some other part that is shared.

[sly shore]

problem with arcui is how long is what it does going to work til blizz clamp down on it's functionality

cos it's quite dubious

[lilac stag]

Do tell what is so dubious

[sly shore]

the way it grabs buffs

is a bandaid workaround

that blizzard very much do not like

It essentially uses custom textures to copy buffs onto them

which blizzard have said is not allowed

[lilac stag]

I haven’t seen that, but I’m also not looking for it.

[sly shore]

I have seen it, and am looking for it

[lilac stag]

good for you!

[plush roost]

Optimistic view, .5 patch. Realistic view, on the ptr for season 2

I think they stated addon work is being held off on for a while

[lilac stag]

I’ll worry about tracking buffs when blizzard pulls their heads out their arse to let you actually track stuff that you want to track that your own toon generates

[sly shore]

yeah, so the likelihood of it being bricked in a few months is close to 100% poggers

[plush roost]

Yee

[sly shore]

so hence why I haven't wasted time with it now

[vestal escarp]

Imagine holding off work on a major expac feature

[plush roost]

Im a msuf enjoyer with bettercdm personally

[sly shore]

for once thinking of future me

msuf is good

I use orbit personally

mapko is great

and the dev for orbit is also very active

and can trust both are not vibe coded too

[plush roost]

Idk ive always been a bit of a pick one i like and stick with it

[sly shore]

[plush roost]

And i have no issues with what i got so

W

[plush roost]

[lilac stag]

even if they brick whatever arc is doing, everything I’ve done will work. We’re gucci

[sly shore]

I was playing sub and something felt off and realised that I obviously don't have the combo point refund anymore

and the sound I had in an aura for it

I was like it's silent what is going on

my brain has been so conditioned

by the cha-ching money sound

[swift tinsel]

Pavlov’s Rogue

I miss the lil silenced pistol shot lol

[vestal escarp]

Eyes still looking for the rupture icon on nameplates

[keen dome]

Haha yeah

[lilac stag]

When bliz going after addons like RestedXP

[keen dome]

I'm still rupture pilled

[swift tinsel]

Blizzard doesn’t filter Valeera’s

[vestal escarp]

She's ass

[swift tinsel]

So you can RP as still having it

[keen dome]

The second I get a job there

[vestal escarp]

Assa

[lilac stag]

Chop chop

[swift tinsel]

I think they use the regular rupture spellID so it comes through as your debuff lol

[vestal escarp]

If you get in before me keep me in referral!

[swift tinsel]

And shows even when you have them filtered to show only yours

[plush roost]

Rip my cocking gun every refund

The apex visual being completely black/very dark purple as well

[sly shore]

the fact it's now tied to bnet account means they might

[plush roost]

Ooof my vision

[sly shore]

cos that's a step too far

[lilac stag]

they won’t

[sly shore]

100% they won't

[lilac stag]

A step too far is charging

[sly shore]

they don't care

[hollow spear]

It's all super ambiguous atp

We're all a major indigestion of a senior dev away from nirvana

[lilac stag]

they only cared about WAs since they had to put more dev time into trying to make encounters not get bricked.

They sure haven’t invested anywhere near enough in the “replacements”

I can’t wait to see the rwf addons

[sly shore]

They are being very careful

everything they make is being passed through blizzard

[fair anchor]

The hundreds reddit stream screenshot thread "Is this allowed ???"

[lilac stag]

just like sneak.lua

[sly shore]

I mean there wasn't a game-wide combat based addon exodus at that point was there

slaps on the wrist didn't even exist

now there are very much consequences

[lilac stag]

Echo had no consequences

For RPing doing a boss fight

[sly shore]

Yes, that's what I said

[lilac stag]

was that English?

[hollow spear]

Idk, the spotlight on things like these is so much brighter than it used to be

[sly shore]

people care more now

[bronze turret]

Blizzard getting old and grumpy, chasing fun havers

[swift tinsel]

didn't have "rick rolled by Arc UI on my bingo card" for this morning

[hollow spear]

How did your rick get rolled?

[swift tinsel]

||there was an update and when I logged into the game it said my free trial expired with a Next Steps type button then it hits you with the song and says JK its always free enjoy Midnight ||

[keen dome]

lmao

[swift tinsel]

|| even had confetti lmao ||

[lilac stag]

||Was it purple?||

[swift tinsel]

|| all colors! ||

[lilac stag]

|| Fuu is going to come back in here and wonder wtf is going on. ||

[alpine wraith]

||javier riquelme ||

[swift tinsel]

|| es tut mir leid fuu ||

[lilac stag]

||@alpine wraith is there a good guide for leveling engineering? Or just use the wow-professions one?||

[sharp flower]

Morning boys

[sly shore]

||good afternoon||

[alpine wraith]

didnt try to lvl engi first but it wont be cheap rn because ore is pricey

[swift tinsel]

I've been selling half the mats I gather whenever I go back to silvermoon and made some tidy gold already

quite nice

[lilac stag]

I got it cheap

There was a dip then it took off

I bought enough (I think) for smithing and engineering in addition to what I’m getting distracted by while questing

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

I've had multiple hate whispers already, it's great. People just do not know how to use the AH.

[swift tinsel]

I haven't even done any real dedicated herb/fishing yet just a lil bit between campaign quests but there's so many nodes

[lilac stag]

It bad how much I get distracted grabbing ore

[swift tinsel]

I had to tell myself to lock in this morning and just quest lol

[lilac stag]

I just hit 85

[swift tinsel]

can gather later when I'm queueing

[lilac stag]

thankfully the xp for mining is good

[swift tinsel]

noice, I went to bed at 85 and just logged back in a bit ago

oh yeah I've gotten quite a few bars of xp from gathering

10 nodes is basically a quest turn in

[lilac stag]

I’m still exhausted from all the medical shit. Ended up crashing at 8 last night. Got up at 330

[supple pawn]

@lilac stag Out of respect, does sub feel better at higher haste/with apex?

Rotation wise

[lilac stag]

Feel better than what?

it plays like sub

[supple pawn]

Level 80 sub

[lilac stag]

It looks like sub

[supple pawn]

With low haste

[lilac stag]

I can’t compare. I had 40% haste.

[supple pawn]

I had 8% haste when I whacked dummies to test it

[keen dome]

This is the cat expansion

[supple pawn]

So dance was short then I ran out of energy immediately

[swift tinsel]

I luv

[lilac stag]

Only way you’re going to know if you enjoy it is to 1. Try it on beta or 2. Level and try it.

My vibes may not match your vibes.

[supple pawn]

Fair enough

Of course

Just quite upset because I cooked up a really nice mog for rogue so very eager to try it

[swift tinsel]

had to give myself purple glowing hands to hide the Cold Blood effect

[supple pawn]

Like admittedly. The prune makes me enjoy my main a bit less to a degree

[lilac stag]

you’re gonna like anything less that loses stuff

Welcome to midnight

I don’t think any of the 18 or so actual sub rogues are happy with the prune, but we’ve just gotten good at going with whatever we’ve be given.

Meanwhile every new person in here is like ON GOD this is amazing. I can finally play sub.

[sly shore]

it's really missing a button

maybe a dot

a bleed, if you will

[lilac stag]

you’re gonna play assa anyways

[alpine wraith]

actually shadowy reflection would be cool to have again

for even more clones

[onyx flame]

Yes a bleed, especially in pvp

[lilac stag]

Make it a pvp talent then.

Outlaw was fine without a bleed. Sub will be fine.

[onyx flame]

Outlaw has atleast more buttons…if you want to play as a cringe temu pirate

[sly shore]

outlaw does have a bit more of a rotation yeah

[lilac stag]

if all you care about is buttons go for it

outlaw is just reactionary with shit that all does the same dmg for the most part. If you enjoy reactionary it’s lovely.

[sly shore]

the spec is undeniably missing something

it's not even a question

the rotation is hollow

[hollow spear]

I'll spec shuriken tornado to get an extra button

[sly shore]

oh wait...

that's gone too

[lilac stag]

most specs are missing something. They stripped everything back

[sly shore]

[hollow spear]

I'm offline, so I can't confirm

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel where is our opener in the average of all dps?

[hollow spear]

In my mind it still exists

Idk, the more I think about it, the more I believe that rupture wasn't a good button

I'd welcome a new button, but it would have to feel meaningful

[lilac stag]

fix goremaws and people would have the extra rotational button.

but you know.

[hollow spear]

Maybe another builder?

[lilac stag]

We’re lucky to have gotten bug fixes before launch

[severe linden]

I dont think they are adding more buttons

[lilac stag]

S2 they’ll add something

[hollow spear]

Did we actually check whether they reintroduced old bugs?

[lilac stag]

need to hit 90

[floral geyser]

im late how are you all liking the apex

i din't get to play yesterday 🙁

I'm confused by the icey veins ancietn arts and sht stuff

[swift tinsel]

quest spoiler || I wanna pet Halazzi so fuckin bad dude that's one big kitty ||

[obsidian dew]

You can try using the Excel sheet if the addon isn't great for you

[molten citrus]

i hate you oomfie

[runic sinew]

someone get bug in First dance too?

my first dance is counting 9 sec out of combat to get the buff

[lilac stag]

everyone hates pvp, even pvpers oomfie

[molten citrus]

lies and slander

we don't hate pvp, we hate blizzard for hating pvp

people are still coming in asking me for sub openers scath

[lilac stag]

nice

[molten citrus]

HOW ARE THEY STILL ASKING THIS

[lilac stag]

Sap cheap shot blind kidney cheap shot.

Hope mage kills target

[molten citrus]

shadowstrike eviscerate

[lilac stag]

[molten citrus]

maybe a sectech if you're feeling fancy

[lilac stag]

I just tell them to go back to tbc

@molten citrus just be strong for 2-3 weeks.

They’ll all be DKs and Ret pali’s again

[molten citrus]

yeah i will be too

[lilac stag]

You’ll be back when is good.

[molten citrus]

i pray

i lack buttons

[lilac stag]

more room for macros

[molten citrus]

most of those are gone too

[lilac stag]

time for some new ones

dance with fireworks, dance with purple fireworks, etc

[molten citrus]

devourer animations are too good to main rogue anymore

[lilac stag]

outlaw got the big visual upgrades

[molten citrus]

_>

i only saw like 2 animation changes i thought

[stiff stirrup]

Is there no need for tracking unseen blade for coup now?

[lilac stag]

just track escalating

[shrewd lantern]

its a bit weird since the sub pvp opener shouldnt be much different from a pve one

outside of throwing in cheap/kidney

[molten citrus]

I’ve been referring people to wowhead openers for a couple seasons now

“Stun as needed”

[shrewd lantern]

and in some seasons you might have to "rush" an opener

if cc ends

[lilac stag]

Just tell them Strike + Swifty Macro

[shrewd lantern]

before you reach next one

[molten citrus]

Openers are too situational

Rotation is just priority based

[shrewd lantern]

i think nahj used to do like

regular/orc/rele opener explanations

meanwhile pika: idk stun and kill the guy

[molten citrus]

Yeah

Problem is

[shrewd lantern]

i always found it funny people asking him so many theoretical questions

[molten citrus]

If you do like Nahj and tell them a strict 10 global opener

[shrewd lantern]

because its pretty evident he plays off general game knowledge not nitpick specifics

[molten citrus]

They learn nothing

[shrewd lantern]

yeah because you can only give an opener assuming you dont get cc'ed or a trinket

[molten citrus]

Mhm

[shrewd lantern]

or assume they specifically trinket at x global

[molten citrus]

Idk why so many ppl get stuck in these weird mindsets for pvp

I guess just because we can’t sim it

[shrewd lantern]

ofc there are some openers if you execute they need to trinket

or just deadge

[molten citrus]

I’ve been seeing that ppl already have a WA hud style ui again

Is that just arcUI?

[lilac stag]

You can use our haste chat for extra dance gcds

[molten citrus]

Wdym

[molten citrus]

Ooo chart not chat

Pog

Someone tried to tell me they thought sub haste was bait a couple weeks ago

[lilac stag]

thisi is all arc (minus the unit frame) #subtlety message

[molten citrus]

“Just keep stacking mastery”

[plush roost]

200 haste is actually within margin and is signifacntly stronger in aoe

[molten citrus]

Yeah that shit looks nice. What are people using for UF?

Been seeing a lot that look the same as before, the big solid color bars

[lilac stag]

I like Uuf and Platynator for nameplates

[molten citrus]

Yeah I’ve been seeing Platynator a lot

[lilac stag]

someone had a prio target addon for PvP

[molten citrus]

I just need profiles for all of this ig

[plush roost]

Platy is just user friendly plater

[molten citrus]

ArcUI settings looked miserable to navigate iirc

[plush roost]

With a more consistent dev

[molten citrus]

What’s doing the resource bars? Is that also arc?

[lilac stag]

It’s just different. So it’s overwhelming at first glance.

Yes all of that is arc.

[molten citrus]

Ah

[plush roost]

Should be #wangbar

Support local buisnesses

[molten citrus]

I had tried wangbar and that seemed rough

[lilac stag]

dance bar

[lilac stag]

if it wouldnt crash and reset and be an extra addon to install, sure

[molten citrus]

do we have imports anywhere in the disc for arc/uuf/platy?

[plush roost]

Its crashing? Never noticed myself

Must be a live server thing

Only had 1.5 hrs last night :_:

[warm marlin]

It worked fine for the 5 hours or whatever I was on

Had no issues with any addon

[lilac stag]

#transmog

[plush roost]

Betcha its just arcUI griefing it

[warm marlin]

I run arc

[lilac stag]

yeah I’m not doing 2 addons when I can do it all in one.

[plush roost]

Hmmge

Weirdge

[lilac stag]

and have more control over the visuals

[swift tinsel]

I had some issues with in/out of combat hiding getting switched but sorted itself out

[supple pawn]

o7

[plush roost]

My biggest issue was my DSM wasnt showing up on my cdm

Shits annoying

Like im trying to DN chain these mobs game cmon

[warm marlin]

I didn’t set up ds for either spec

[swift tinsel]

I did a few weeks into prepatch but never played it again lol

[plush roost]

Idk i was too lazy to swap off raid talents

Was just flyin around murder row

[warm marlin]

dance/blades/st -> storm -> coup does indeed do crazy burst in aoe

even before aa4

[plush roost]

Yahp

[warm marlin]

tho i am running forge

[plush roost]

3 gcd turbo burst

Pewpew

Also that murder row dungeon is ub

Gonna be

Quite demonic in m+

[lilac stag]

yea idk I dropped sensei and wang. it be what it be. Not using arc? Go for wang.

[warm marlin]

i logged into den of nalorak and got very upset getting shoved by winds and then went into the maldraxxus looking dungeon and got bounced around by the orbs while getting chain bolted by 18 casters

also why does the final boss of den have sennarth ice

[swift tinsel]

in there rn follower-style and the ice patch boss was about to become my 13th reason

I haaaaaate that style of movement so much

stupid inertiatic shit

[warm marlin]

i was shrouding my ai past the packs, we are almost at the final set of guys, and right as I press storm I see captain garrick throw an avengers shield way behind us and pull 10 mobs in

from stealth btw

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah they're fucking dumb as shit

or the hunter just disengages into a pack as your running for funsies

[warm marlin]

we also both died to threat one time while she was alive

insane

[supple pawn]

ah @lilac stag i hopped on beta and realise im stupid. i was reading single target rotation this whole time (this is why i figured i wouldnt enjoy it, the aoe rotation looks similar to how i remember for DS and for trickster i assume coup isnt much different to darkest night 😭)

very sorry for all of the annoying questions about sub over past few days 😭

idk what my issue with fire is now

[lilac stag]

No worries

[open coyote]

do we BP and storm on 2?

[fallow nimbus]

The dungeon quests with the followers are the worst

I hope i can skip that shit on 2nd toon

[molten citrus]

#subtlety-faq

[supple pawn]

mmmm

so AOE feels good

ST feels a bit. empty but fair enough i suppose

[hazy breach]

Bro you think they'd code that shit in and then never use it again?

[supple pawn]

shame they turned cut the witnesses into a passive but tbh i was also playing trickster x3

hopefully we get more nuance to ST but im satisfied enough with this tbch

[torn tide]

should i be changing gear when i get higher ilevel ones? i feel like when i swap then my stats just become worse and wrose

[lilac stag]

ilvl is going to win. There’s no tier set. Shit is dead in dance.

[torn tide]

cuz whenever i change stuff my mastery is just plummeting

[lilac stag]

gems for speed are only other factor

[torn tide]

gems?

[astral axle]

I love moving like Luigi, in fact I prefer it

[hybrid prism]

After a tier of being fire mage, which I still love, I have returned to my beloved sub rogue. We’re back!

[hallow matrix]

My combo points on senseis are lagging - Does wangbar lag? are there any others that don't if so?

[lilac stag]

turn fast update on. Use wang. Use ArcUI

[hallow matrix]

Is fast update part of wangs?

[lilac stag]

@alpine wraith how many “we’re back” are gonna be “gone” in 3 weeks?

[left ledge]

me

[lilac stag]

It’s a setting in sensei.

[lilac stag]

You were never back though.

[hallow matrix]

oh right, so either sensei with fast update or wangs. Any recommendation between the two? or both as good?

[left ledge]

i am back

(from tbc)

[lilac stag]

[torn tide]

is it bad that i lost half my dps after changing gear

changed gear to higher ilevel

[lilac stag]

One only dos rogue.

Read the descriptions. Figure out which you like.

[hallow matrix]

already had fast updates on for senseis, guess ill try out wang and see if that's less laggy

[astral axle]

Valeera is a cooler rogue than me. Unsure what to make of that.

[tulip light]

so i havent played beta or anything and just now getting to play with the new apex. but it seems like with we have infinite sht stored and in dance we just finisher after finisher boom boom?

[supple pawn]

how would yall change st rotation. if at all. i am curious

[vestal escarp]

[vale pine]

give a free use of secret every dance

[supple pawn]

how would this work? like, pressing sec during dance rewards an extra sectech? X combo points spent in dance resets the CD of sectech? sectech makes your next eviscerate grant sectech?

[vale pine]

like shots in the dark

[astral axle]

[vivid cobalt]

is deathstalker or trickster better for leveling

does it even matter

[graceful osprey]

I’d say doesn’t matter

[vestal escarp]

How hard you try

[plush roost]

Keep that in mind

I designed this rhyme, to explain in due time

[swift tinsel]

All I know

[plush roost]

all i knowww

[swift tinsel]

Time is a valuable thing

[lilac stag]

is that I don’t know nothin’

[swift tinsel]

[plush roost]

[swift tinsel]

now I wanna listen to Reanimation

[open crane]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[hollow spear]

People probably asked a thousand times, but why the heck does ArcUI show Vanish as inactive (and therefore not in my essentials)?

[alpine wraith]

ahaha who knows

[stuck arrow]

Eviscerate feels remarkably underwhelming in general.

A small buff there maybe even brings back the potential funnel role we used to have even if it's less damage then just cleaving.

[lilac stag]

ah the first funnel of the weekend

[alpine wraith]

dont think we ever get our cool funnel back

that ship sailed

you can watch arcane mage do that tho cool spec

[lilac stag]

we blast with BP. Do very good aoe. WHERES OUR FUNNEL

[alpine wraith]

kinda fun they doubled down of touch of the magi

not only does it nuke now it pulses dmg too after it ends LUL

[lilac stag]

meanwhile dont show them charrends m+ logs and eviscerate dmg

[stuck arrow]

I think BP feels great, it's just different. Lol.

[hollow spear]

If they bring funnel to all the wow specs

Sub will be the last one to get it

To pay for our zins

[lilac stag]

pretty sure Evisc is more than fine. #subtlety message

[stuck arrow]

My ego just fundamentally tied to doing the most prio damage apparently. 😂

[lilac stag]

check your ego at the door

this ain’t BFA

[stuck arrow]

My ego doesn't fit through the door anyway. 🤷

[plush roost]

Go play assa bro

They got funnel up the assa

Kaboom

[torpid echo]

regarding the last macro, does that mean that u use coup over BP always when it's available?

[plush roost]

Yes it does, whether or not that is a good thing is a different story

[torpid echo]

what I meant with the question is if optimally you want to use coup over bp no matter how many targets there is xD

[plush roost]

Eh, idk the math but i feel like guarantee apexing your coup is a must in aoe

Just from the beta testing i did

[torpid echo]

thanks for the clarification, I'll wait for more news when the mathematics are out hahaha

[lilac stag]

just ignore the BP coup macro. If you can’t handle two buttons for aoe there be bigger issues.

[strange chasm]

Did they ever fix trickster and the anti parry applying to the entire raid.

[astral axle]

ya

[alpine wraith]

@lilac stag lvling engi seems super easy now

everyone crafting evercores so they are super cheap

[lilac stag]

Yeah I think people are using it for 89-90 leveling so mats maybe cheap

[alpine wraith]

also seems now we can make head wrist and boot with 1 stat pog

[lilac stag]

I’ve got like 2.5 lvls to go for 89. I sold all the mats I’ve farmed since I have more than enough for smithing and engineering

[alpine wraith]

now that DMF does not work with reps i will do sideuqest

[lilac stag]

I didn’t notice boots. That’s nice

I figure first spark gonna be dagger

after that one of the engineering pieces

[alpine wraith]

well keep in mind you can still use veteran spark to get embellish x2

then just see what happens

[lilac stag]

yea

[alpine wraith]

but yea first mythic craft will be dagger

[lilac stag]

Vet OH dagger maybe with DM

that’s what 89 main stat proc?

[lilac stag]

I’m glad they killed this.

[alpine wraith]

kinda same

[lean sigil]

im abit confused by trickter macro that uses sec with dance, how do i fit shadowblades in dance? do i use it after first secret?

[lilac stag]

Blades is off gcd.

You do blades, then dance + Sectech

[uneven scarab]

is engi actually worth this time around or am i just going enchanting

[lean sigil]

but guide sais blades IN dance

Cast Shadow Dance with 6 or more combo points and when Secret Technique is ready to be used.
Cast Shadow Blades during Shadow Dance.
Cast Secret Technique during Shadow Dance.
Cast Vanish outside of Shadow Dance and at low combo points followed by a Shadowstrike.

can i have a macro with dance blades sec?

[lilac stag]

For the single stated items i think it is. Super easy haste to 700

[uneven scarab]

doesnt really matter if its right before or right after u press dance

[lilac stag]

^ you just don’t want to lose casts.

[uneven scarab]

yea

[lilac stag]

blades goes to 20 sec with tier

[lean sigil]

ok so its fine to get full CP then blades + trink etc into dance sec macro?

[uneven scarab]

yes

thats how you should enter cd’s as trickster

[lilac stag]

So if you’re granny shifting from blades to dance to Sectech you’re losing gcds = losing dps in our highest dps window

[uneven scarab]

Best be double clutching no granny shifting

round here

[lean sigil]

thats the way i do it, was thinking that i messed up since i dont cast blades in a dance but before

[hollow spear]

Grannies are better at pearl clutching

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fastand-furious-brian-paulwalker-almosthadyou-bromance-gif-5159662

[uneven scarab]

The whole goal is no wasted gcds in blades

[lilac stag]

missing 3 gcds later

[uneven scarab]

big dam

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/dom-toretto-fast-and-furious-gif-14518471222359052784

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/deneme-gif-25932302

[hollow spear]

Might still need a dance storm macro

I've tried to avoid it

[lilac stag]

Likely will need it

[supple pawn]

F

[lilac stag]

you wanted more buttons.

You’re getting them with macros

Get to piano playing.

[supple pawn]

oh, no im fine with macros

i said F for colo

ive gotten such mixed thoughts on nmy outfits and i still havent figured what i would like 😭

[lilac stag]

colo is strong. Not first rodeo.

[tepid quartz]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[torn tide]

is there any difference in doing dance+sectec before/after sb?

the way i do it is i do dance+sectec then sb

[supple pawn]

TF is SB

[torn tide]

shadowblades

[supple pawn]

Ohhhh

[lilac stag]

@swift tinsel Arc: "Match All" hide condition mode now works — the Condition Match Mode dropdown in group appearance options had no effect; groups always hid when any single condition was met. The setting is now properly evaluated, saved, and restored across reloads and profile switches

[rain stratus]

Those of you who hit 90, is your weekly quest active? The one where you choose an activity

[stuck arrow]

You lose the 20% extra damage on SecTec from Shadow Blades if you use it before Shadow Blades.

[hollow spear]

I'm at four dance macros (incl storm) rn, gotta pump those numbers up

[hollow spear]

Only on the physical hit tho

If they didn't change it, the shadow damage happens after 1 and 1.2 or 1.3 seconds

[uneven scarab]

i dont think they changed that

Still works the same iirc

[hollow spear]

The visuals are delayed

So I guess they didn't

[swift tinsel]

thought they made the clone hits faster than 1/1.3

[plush roost]

Seems like its .6 and then .7 after

[stuck arrow]

Might be snapshotted? Not sure.

Clones are pets that copy your attack, depending on if they just copy your damage or if they use your stats to calculate a new attack would change it.

I can test later.

In any case - it's still probably not advisable. Phys part of sectec is more damage than eviscerate or the backstab GCD you get at the tail end of SB from skipping sectec, no?

[plush roost]

You sblades before sec tec now yes

Well, on the same gcd just before

Hence the macros

[uneven scarab]

ye

Makes sense

[plush roost]

Like in my log above ur just missing 20k damage for nothing if u delay it .5

[hollow spear]

It definitely doesn't snapshot

But with the lower delay it's definitely not advisable

In tww it was neutral to cast later afaik because you gained another global during blades

[hazy breach]

In theory yes

[hollow spear]

And early tww, the physical part didn't even get buffed I think

[plush roost]

It was delayed so you dont waste premed iirc, and then it simmed neutral later in the season

[hazy breach]

In practice almost everybody lost a global in blades because of it

[plush roost]

XD

[hollow spear]

Count me in boss

[plush roost]

Fuckin double coup

Into double coup

Rip my gcd

[hollow spear]

Please just make it a normal gcd

I hate it

[plush roost]

Legit only reason i sblades .7 later in tww3 was habit from earlier

Probably shouldnt have

Xd

[astral mountain]

For m plus we running trickster or DS?

[hazy breach]

Literally no reason to ever spec DS rn

[lilac stag]

but muh funnel

[hazy breach]

#assassination

[hollow spear]

Funnel contains fun and I don't have any on sin 🙁

[wintry heart]

sick

[maiden quest]

Got a question regarding the timing with Shadow Dance and Secret Tech. If I have 7 CP and Dance is coming up in, lets say 3 seconds, should I do an Evisc and rebuild CP or wait the seconds it takes for Dance to come up again?

[swift tinsel]

just wait

can backstab to keep from overcapping energy

[quasi junco]

Guys, stupid question.

Which spec should be the "easiest" for leveling right now till 90? outlaw or sub?

And also easiest for doing delves?

[keen dome]

They're both fine

[lilac stag]

it doesn’t matter

You’re doing lvl 1-3 delves

and unless you’re 110 ilvl they’re both going to kill shit

One has all the grapples. One teleports. Pick your pleasure

[stuck arrow]

As long as you're not in a situation where you've got sectec up but no dance, totally fine to just wait a few seconds to dance and spend energy on BS so you don't overcap.

If you're sitting on Sectec and have no dance then that's no beunos and you need to manage your dances better so they'll be available for sectec.

[lilac stag]

Thanks Copilot! ```Outlaw Rogue is generally the easier and faster leveling spec in Midnight.
Across current Midnight‑era guides and class overviews, Outlaw is consistently recommended as the most efficient leveling choice for Rogues thanks to its smoother rotation, better sustained damage, and superior tools for handling multiple enemies.

Overgear’s Midnight Rogue guide explicitly states that Outlaw is the best leveling spec in the Midnight patch.

Icy Veins’ leveling guide also frames Outlaw as the most practical option, noting that Rogue is historically a slow leveling class overall, but Outlaw mitigates this more than the other specs. ```

[maiden quest]

Thanks for the quick reply. I haven't played rogue since tbc so I'm a bit new=)

[oak grotto]

Do you still wanna use different builders during dance for Danse Macabre?

[swift tinsel]

nah

[oak grotto]

Not even in ST?

[swift tinsel]

nope we just kinda let it do its thing

[oak grotto]

Damn, thats a bummer ngl

Can you play Tea over Cold Blooded killer in m+?

[swift tinsel]

not really recommended

[wintry heart]

You can do whatever you want tbh

[swift tinsel]

the extra crit on an already-strong bp is lorge

vs a lil bit of energy

when you get a metric fuckton in cds

[lilac stag]

damage out of dance still don’t matter. Tea does nothing. Weeeeee

[keen dome]

Now, if it was coffee...

[wintry heart]

Technically you can do whatever you want

Doesn’t mean it’s good

Why are you booing me when I’m right

[lilac stag]

Idk why I’m replying to myself but this seems relevant.

[lilac stag]

Oh yeah. This is a discord server where we give actual advice to help players improve end game skills and telling someone to do whatever does not do that when it’s an abysmal talent choice.

[lilac stag]

good talk.

[west tide]

bro what the heck are u doing

[keen dome]

Scath are you okay

[oak grotto]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[lilac stag]

sick of death knights

worse than ret paladins in here

[uneven scarab]

tea as sub is legitimately self sabotage

never do that to yourself

[lilac stag]

Actual troll advice to say do whatever

[willow pawn]

on beta i had these two black lines in the UI when i get refunded combo points after finisher

on Live it doesnt do that

is there an option?

i have to turn back on?

[alpine wraith]

think that is ancient arts 3

[swift tinsel]

you need your final apex talent

[alpine wraith]

yea at lvl 90 you will have it back

[willow pawn]

yah i havge the talent

its not showing up

[swift tinsel]

do you have spell alerts hidden

or opacity turned all the way down

[willow pawn]

yah prob from enh s1

when i turned off maelstrom

gotta check

[swift tinsel]

ah yea if so then its probs just hidden via that

[willow pawn]

yah opacity was at 0

can you customize it?

[swift tinsel]

not inherently as far as I know

haven't looked to see if they added anything to it for midnight

BetterBlizzFrame can probs edit it if I had to guess

[rustic anvil]

how do i change my rotation for apex

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq

[gilded ferry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

I just read through scath talking to himself and feared I had a stroke

[rustic anvil]

oh wow that sounds lame

very uintuitive and weird

[lilac stag]

It’s not if you look at your sht as cps past 7

[rustic anvil]

oh

im ognna use that addon to litearlly just make it a diff colored bar after my cp maybe lol

[gilded ferry]

do we have sims for other classes as well?

to compare

?

[lilac stag]

I’m assuming they’re paywalled like always by Ulria

I’m sure someone got a copy of his sheet. Just not here

[gilded ferry]

wanted to see how do rogues compare

saw outlaw with 40k

[keen dome]

You don't really compare cross class, though. They're not designed for that.

So you'll literally just be looking at numbers without context or purpose.

[lilac stag]

5 min patchwerk is meant to be a baseline to compare all dps roles in a “bubble”

[plush roost]

Youre looking at pre expac numbers that dont matter btw

[lilac stag]

Don’t worry. Bear druid doubling highest rogue sim

Arms warrior competing with Resto Shaman

Everything else somewhere inbetween.

[gilded ferry]

maybe, i was just curious to see if the info was available

[astral axle]

What charrend is saying is the numbers on that sheet are from the pre-xpac patch. So level 80 in level 80 gear, no apex, no new tier, etc.

So they aren’t really relevant

[tribal vortex]

also they are not really relevant even for 90

yeah patchwerk 5min can be compared but still classes play so much differently

[stuck arrow]

I mean ideally they should be able to do that if the sims are accurate.

Certain classes though might as well not even have sims. Last time I played a Warlock for example... 😂

[keen dome]

You get a pretty useless bit of data, though.

[mighty crow]

still debating between outlaw and sub hmm

[tribal vortex]

last two tiers it wasn't succesful

[keen dome]

Different APL's, different approaches, different strengths. A 5 minute patchwerk fight on a class known for pretty good cleave? amazing, good data to compare to something strong on ST lmao.

[tribal vortex]

yeah this. also execute

[swift tinsel]

yeah its just contextless numbers

don't really mean anything valuable

[keen dome]

Just go write some random numbers down and look at them instead

[astral axle]

At the end of the day mages and boomkins deserve to suffer, regardless of what they sim

[swift tinsel]

simming is largely a gearing tool too

[stuck arrow]

I mean there's a bar of certainty / accuracy to the models. Some much better than others. Calling them random is not totally correct - but I generally agree with your point.

[sullen hare]

boomkins are literal terrorists

[hollow spear]

They can't help it

[swift tinsel]

its less about accuracy and more about making cross-spec conclusions using data that isn't meant to be used for that

[tribal vortex]

the sim is not random the comparison between the sims is kinda random though

[swift tinsel]

its faulty to try and draw meaningful conclusions

[tribal vortex]

not accurate data can be extracted

you can only do it for pure st

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's not useful or accurate to what you are looking for.

A better metric is actual raid data when we have it for a few reasons, but you can still easily lose the context there too

[swift tinsel]

if you look at the actual profile in the html reports you can draw better conclusions but even then

[tribal vortex]

ALSO BIG TUNING ON THE 17TH

*caps

[lean rover]

Is sub going to be the new popular pick this season

[keen dome]

Maybe!

[mighty crow]

i aint gonna lie

i hope its outlaw so i can get my "combat" fix

[keen dome]

I also hope for an Outlaw tier

But not for the right reasons.

[mighty crow]

i like outlaw. a lot. but god damn. get rid of roll the bones

untill then i just stab people as a psudo ninja

[stuck arrow]

What if we kept RtB & gave you a coin instead?

[mighty crow]

im convinced the only people who like RtB are addicted to gamblingf

[swift tinsel]

that spec would be so, so dull without something like rtb

[keen dome]

you push dice button and get buff

[mighty crow]

easy solution

[hazy breach]

Rtb is insanely whatever now though

[mighty crow]

replace it with russian roulet

[keen dome]

You just push dice and get buff. Sometimes gooder buff you want. There's really not much to it as far as I've seen?

[mighty crow]

i mean i guess i havent really tested it much iv been playing sub but i still feel like its

"most of your dps is based on one of these buffs"

[lilac stag]

gotta love feels

[keen dome]

Have you looked at it since the rework

[mighty crow]

i have yea

[chrome palm]

this looks a lot better than our tier

[stuck arrow]

RtB hasn't been near as feast or famine as it's reputation in a very long time, imo.

It's even less so now.

[grand galleon]

I finished story and I am level 88 - what is fastest way to 90 now? dungeon spamming?

[keen dome]

Or just do side quests

[mighty crow]

you know

why cant i play outlaw with daggers blizzard than i can just freely switch

[keen dome]

We can but hope

[lilac stag]

or just commit to outlaw if you want to play it.

[mighty crow]

i do that thing where i switch if my party wants me to play something else

[keen dome]

It's time for a second rogue?

[lilac stag]

tell your party to fuck off. Are they the rogue or are you?

[lilac stag]

At one point when we had 3 rogues jn the guild, 2 played yahtzee pirate and I was sub, even when assa was numerically better.

[keen dome]

Purple 4 life

[lilac stag]

It’s been way more enjoyable leveling purple this expansion than previous expansions

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's really nice just how much smoother it is.

I like the Apex a lot so far too even if it boils down to Free Damage at 84

[regal current]

I'm winning on pulls, and on bosses until the end of the third shadow dance and shadow blades

Then you watch as the DPS just dies

But grinding has been good and I'm like 2 bars from 90

So we will see what 90 does for me

[nocturne oriole]

is anyone using WangBar vs Sensei? the threshold for Assa is 5cp iirc, is it 6cp finishers for sub?

[lilac stag]

most in here use wang kr ArcUI

C= rules are in #subtlety-faq

[remote rapids]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

6+ but apex changes finishing rule

[placid lynx]

hey there's any addon that add glows on the cooldown manager?

[lilac stag]

Multiple.

Doesn’t the default do it as well?

[astral axle]

Yeah it can glow when it is back on CD

But not off of conditions like "glow when greater than 5 sht"

[lilac stag]

assuming it’s just an alert setting?

[astral axle]

yuh

[lilac stag]

yeah nothing is doing stack glows afaik

[placid lynx]

in game alerts are absolute trash

doesn't even work all the time

[lilac stag]

audios work fine

@teal coral are you still using base CDM? Any issues with alerts?

[eternal wave]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[astral axle]

I've had zero issues with base.

[west tide]

my best time in wow i was in a guild with 4 rogues

we were the goats fr

[lilac stag]

usually when someone has an issue, it’s an addon or they need to change profiles and then change back.

[lilac stag]

Our two pirates would have fit in perfectly with zero and Zac in that channel.

[west tide]

sickos

[lilac stag]

one gquit mid pull and we killed the boss the next pull

[west tide]

i only played outlaw too when i started but i got too bored doing one thing

he was the problem!!

[acoustic lodge]

is there a way to track anciet arts damage?

[lilac stag]

the other quit after we killed Raz and took his friends with him.

[lilac stag]

Warcraft Logs

[hearty steeple]

Guys why sometimes i have 4 charged combo points ?

Is it a bug?

[alpine wraith]

you maybe used dance twice

[hearty steeple]

Dont think so

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[crystal comet]

apologies, that didn't do what I thought it would

[wide shale]

what cooldown manager are people using? Is it BCDM? also, any solid source for profiles i can import?

[sterile radish]

whats bcdm?

dont tell me we got rid of weak auras just to have to install a diff addon to fix blizzards weak aura band aid

[hazy breach]

No

You generally need a dozen or so to get the same features WA had

Bcdm is better cooldown manager

[sterile radish]

sure, i was just making a point of

"addon bad" ban addon but also need addon still to fix blizz shit ui

[wide shale]

Im having trouble importing the profiles from wowhead... am i doing something wrong?

[teal coral]

Base working gud

[west tide]

trickster goated

[grand wyvern]

do we want to prox apex with shadowstrike at full cp also outside of dance?

[hazy breach]

How do you propose you use shadowstrike outside dance

[tepid trellis]

How you planning on striking outside of dance

[grand wyvern]

nvm i am cooked

[tepid trellis]

xD

[grand wyvern]

but backstab would still proc it?

[tepid trellis]

last charr halfway done

[warm marlin]

how many will that make

[west tide]

guys whats prio coup or sec tech

[tepid trellis]

sectech

[tepid trellis]

5

[warm marlin]

i genuinely want to uninstall and im not even done the first

[lucid jackal]

I'm done the first and I enjoyed it but like

I am dreading the 2nd already

and I have to do 3 in total

[grand wyvern]

well imagine the race degenerates with 24 chars

[west tide]

bro u have to do 3 what da hell

[alpine wraith]

you if you have that many you usually just have diff acounts and party together

[lucid jackal]

I just dont want to do it lol

[west tide]

they cant beat you up bro

[plush roost]

Isnt the fastest way doing 5 stack followere dungeons too
..

Movie night with the homies slamming murder row 500 times

[warped zodiac]

when do we replace reshii wraps?

[chilly kite]

how much damage should i be doing at 90 200 ilvl, because this 1k evic dmg is not it

[warm marlin]

idk im doing the side quests to 90 for renown rn

gonna do new sides on 2nd guy until i got that renown and then idk

light my pc on fire maybe

[plush roost]

I havent been able to play

The grind starts over weekend

[frail bone]

im trying to leave side qs til subday

[warm marlin]

dmf buff was hotfixed to not work on midnight renowns so theres no reason to wait anymore

[tepid trellis]

there is a clever way to level in about 3 hours if you have alot of gold to spend

[warm marlin]

does profession swapping work again

after they fixed it in df/tww

[frail bone]

oh damn well I gotta back track then lol

[vagrant sinew]

first crafts proff swapping or?

[tepid trellis]

nah

[lucid jackal]

I just hate splits man

I love leveling

and splits just make leveling such a fucking chore

of just like

Alright log in go do some fuckass grind for EXP

Whether its dungeon spam, or delves, or like whatever the fuck else

[tribal blade]

there's a fucking rare that reflect back dmg

and it counts autos as seperate instances

so i just killed myself on it

[alpine wraith]

exoeskeletoned

[frail bone]

zugzug lol

[chilly kite]

that mob whooped my ass like i gave up on it

[plush roost]

They should make lockouts accountwide for first 3 weeks on god.

[lucid jackal]

Unironically

[plush roost]

Like there isnt that many casuals out there doing heroic raid first 3 weeks on 5 charactets

Just lockout loot for 2-3 weeks

No way we do splits after that people likely locked in on their mains

Well, maybe we will, but it will be wayyyy less

[half comet]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[half comet]

anyway for this to work without WA now

[hazy breach]

TankMD addon

[half comet]

or alternative rather

[plush roost]

TankMD or type their name into a macro omegalol

[bold pawn]

Is there a list of bis for the current heroic duns

[hazy breach]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon

[hazy breach]

Massive technology

[half comet]

🫡

[astral axle]

hi eleem :)

[hazy breach]

Hiya

[marsh anchor]

is this real lol

[floral geyser]

best combo point mod?

sensei?

[craggy quail]

wowhead guide.

its right?

[main mason]

is sub gameplay in pve really miserable? Are any of the other rogues specs cool? been thinking about which class to play on new xpac

[sullen hare]

Most rogues recommend wang bar but I use sensei and like it quite a bit

[floral geyser]

wang 😄

[sullen hare]

Sub gameplay is just fine but very simple now @main mason

[main mason]

i see, was trying to find info on the reddits but overall ppl seem to be rly doomers about some things heh. So decided to ask here. How would yall rate fun on pve between the 3 specs?

[crystal comet]

Are we able to track Find Weakness somehow in the cooldown manager or in elvui?

[hazy breach]

No but you dont need to

Theres no reason to

[sullen hare]

I didn't pay blizzard's ransom for the "early" (read: official) launch so idk

I'll be leveling and playing as sub but I might fool around with assassination behind the Wendy's dumpster at some point

[crystal comet]

sorry maybe im confusing something, coming over from mop. why wouldn't we want to track it, in order to chain them with SD?

[hazy breach]

Because its up literally 100% of the time

[sullen hare]

It's like danse macabre you don't pay it any mind

[crystal comet]

huh, I see I must have missed something reading through the talents/wowhead. I thought that was where sub got a lot of its burst, guess I'll have to reread

[upper cosmos]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crystal comet]

This is fascinating. couple of questions if you guys don't mind. I see in this sim and the wowhead guide that you're basically ripping dance/blades/trinkets/pot on pull but all after the first shadowstrike. Is prepot not a thing in retail?

[hazy breach]

Pot has 5 min cd

So no

[kind fern]

what darkmoon deck you guys rockin

[half comet]

can anyone post a screenshot of sensei and wang bars?

[lilac stag]

They look like resource bars. Likely pictured in curesforgr where you download them.

[brisk onyx]

Is there a problem with the stats of the necklace and ring at midnight? my ilv170 ring has 149 total stats, but the ilv220 ring only has 159 stats

[warm marlin]

the secondaries just dont scale up very fast

any ring with 2x socket + enchant at 170 is like ilvl 250 equivalent

kinda crazy

[brisk onyx]

ye

and chest the same

maybe they will big nerf the enchants on ring and chest

[plain cradle]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[torn tide]

oh shit so ive been missing out on damage the whole time

[white tapir]

what ilvl cloak are people replacing their reshii wrap cloak with?

[brisk onyx]

Can we apply a sound for apex or some shit now ?

[thorny wagon]

As soon as i got a higher one. Change feels good.

[torn tide]

what ability actually buffs that tho?

just curious

[dire ravine]

I leveled all the way to 90, and I may have replaced 4 pieces. My boots, and cloak were not one of them. Think I’m like 180ilvl now. They still rip. Likely will fall flat once I move into heroic dungeons though- which I think is ~210ish ilvl

[vast skiff]

how fun does sub rogue rotation feel in dungeons?

thinking of trying sub instead of outlaw this time

[whole forum]

Hi guys, can anyone tell me the optimal opener for sub on m+ and single target? I know the rotation but I am having doubts with the best way to open.

[half comet]

so is out final apex talent basically just old shadow craft

[lucid jackal]

ya

[warm marlin]

after barely playing beta due to being lazy with ui sub isn't quite as bad after pruning as i thought

at least only because you have to focus mildly on your sht stacks for the apex optimization

[plush roost]

Tbh all 3 specs are enjoyable

Part of why i played so much beya

[rancid sierra]

Hey, sorry if this question is dumb. I just cant get it to click, but im new to sub.
/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

Why would this macro be good? How would you have the combo points?

And this - /cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

This makes it so you have to dance at 7 CP right because it casts sectec right away?

and thanks in advance

[sullen hare]

yep that's all correct

[lucid jackal]

Dude thats what I was tryna say!!!!

[sullen hare]

since haste is tied to shadow dance length and shadow dance is where we do all our damage you want to cast sectec literally the moment you enter dance

you want to waste as little time between the casts as humanly possible so you just rack up your 7 combo points, pool for a second or so, and then hit that shadow dance macro

[warm marlin]

if they remove that interaction though its a bit cooked

[sullen hare]

the coup is just an optimization in m+ / multi target. all that does it make it to where you have one button that casts both since coup isn't up 100% of the time

[rancid sierra]

@sullen hare and you use that macro %100 of the time because you shouldnt ever dance with sectec, right?

same for AOE obv

Minus the opener IG when you have 2 for shadow blades

[sullen hare]

yep

[rancid sierra]

@sullen hare thank you

[lucid jackal]

If my grandma had wheels shed be a bike

[warm marlin]

nop nop doesnt work here

u know that its something they probably take issue with

eventually

[chrome palm]

You mean overcapping combo points on purpose doesn’t fit their stated design goals?

Could be

[warm marlin]

rate the new split alt

rogue#2 being a disgusting dwarf was too much

im thinking the 5% warband mentor bonus will surely make up for being in legion remix gear

[chrome palm]

Low key I should prob craft a sword on my alt right

[warm marlin]

i think my time is better used getting more pulls on dagger specs

[tribal blade]

i'm dying at 9% haste right now

this shit feels terrible

[short radish]

so survival hunter arc next?

[chrome palm]

I think this is true for sub but

Probably more of a thing where you need to know when it’s worth to hold dance/secret for adds

[tribal blade]

what's the fastest way to level a splits alt

[olive canyon]

With our new apex talents, and the capstone in particular, is their a rotational change or something we need to track to min max the talent?

[chrome palm]

:)

No

[tribal blade]

🙂

[warm marlin]

do renown quests with it so you're getting 2x efficiency

[tribal blade]

cool cool

[chrome palm]

I’m also renownmaxxing but it’s def slower than the delve shit

[olive canyon]

Thank you - is there any way to add that to our important buffs section on the cooldown manager

[tribal blade]

i think i've already done half the side quests

[warm marlin]

its slower for sure but i need to renownmaxx anyway

so might as well get xp

[chrome palm]

Get my champ gear

[tribal blade]

not really

[chrome palm]

Don’t think the renown is super crazy

[warm marlin]

did yall do the delve spam for 220s gear

[chrome palm]

I haven’t done the weeklies yet

[tribal blade]

you definitely want to be tracking shadow techniques stacks

[tribal blade]

i'm 214 and did my first heroic dungeon

are delves more efficient?

[warm marlin]

hmm

maybe?

theres one thats really fast with current story but you dont always get loot

[tribal blade]

i'm kinda just doing whatever atm haha

[warm marlin]

drops 224/227warbound sometimes

[tribal blade]

don't really have a plan

[tribal blade]

oh shit hot

[warm marlin]

this was 20 delve

and i kinda lowrolled compared to guys i was running with

[olive canyon]

what is the black aura showing?

[tribal blade]

apex refund

[olive canyon]

Seems like it might actually be ancient arts

[tribal blade]

the last apex talent

when that shows your next finisher will refund full CPs

[tribal blade]

i really need to get me some haste gear

[warm marlin]

its a bit cringe that old rings are so good

[tribal blade]

are they still damn

[warm marlin]

well the enchant + 2x gems are worth like 50 ilvl

[tribal blade]

i think i deleted mine haha

[warm marlin]

or more

[tribal blade]

that's nuts

[short radish]

time to restore

[tribal blade]

TIME TO RESTORE

yup

[warm marlin]

think my 224 ring that dropped is like +13 secondaries over my 170 ring

and enchant + 2x gems is 46 stats or something

[short radish]

or just craf tanother one with the 50 sparks you probably still have

[tribal blade]

aw hell no

[warm marlin]

obviously if you put new gems and enchants i assume new one is better

[short radish]

smh its been 24 hours and you dont have rings fully socketed and enchanted

[tribal blade]

I'M TROLLING

[short radish]

im not even max level yet