subtlety

[void ocean]

my biggest disappointment in high iq was when i joined MENSA facebook groups after being admitted

[tribal blade]

AND to press storm>BP

[tribal blade]

oh shit

[keen dome]

mensa is full of very stupid people

[void ocean]

ppl believing in chemtrails and flat earth etc

[tribal blade]

LOL

[void ocean]

im like dude who did the test for u

[tribal blade]

chemtrails i can see how you would get there

but flat earth

is a crazy one

[keen dome]

They did the test cos the test doesn't actual measure intelligence. It measures a very specific, narrow idea of academic test understanding

Intelligence as a concept is extremely broad.

[void ocean]

its just pattern recognition

[keen dome]

Yeah, pretty much

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm an artistically driven person

[fleet wharf]

wasn't IQ originally created to test children to see how far along they were developmentally? like high IQ just means you were x years ahead or behind your peers

[tribal blade]

taht's not really quantifiable

[void ocean]

yes, thats the bine simone scale

[keen dome]

Hell yeah it was, I just said as much

Alfred BInet, my beloved weirdo

And then Simon took it and did the one thing Binet said not to do lmao

[tribal blade]

i think the general IQ tests predict your processing power

or that's the idea

[void ocean]

ah i knew thad sounded french so i must-ve forgot a few letters

[keen dome]

“Mere numbers cannot bring out… the intimate essence of the experiment. This conviction comes naturally when one watches a subject at work … What things can happen! What reflections, what remarks, what feelings, or, on the other hand, what blind automatism, what absence of ideas!… The experimenter judges what may be going on in (the subject’s) mind, and certainly feels difficulty in expressing all the oscillations of a thought in a simple, brutal number, which can have only a deceptive precision. How, in fact, could it sum up what would need several pages of description!”

[fleet wharf]

Well I am going one step beyind just narrow measure of intelligence. If you brag about high IQ you're just saying as xx years old, you're xx+1 years old smart which is... hopefully troublesome after you're in your teens

[tribal blade]

as if you're a computer

[keen dome]

I love this quote from Binet

[wraith sphinx]

Big fan of us talking about iq in the sub channel

[maiden oar]

my iq 1 million because i could do the tww s3 opener

[void ocean]

i always tho that bragging about high IQ is paradoxical, if u have like more than 15-20 years, like if u achieved smth in ur life than u can at least talk about that instead of ur iq, and if u havent, then id shup up about having high iq cause that makes it even orse i guess

[keen dome]

My fav Binet thing is he became a groundbreaking Psychologist by chance and wasn't really formally trained. Dude just liked reading in a library and became good at it.

[maiden oar]

and then i could pool coup for damage amp so maybe its 2 million

[tribal blade]

sub chat

[lilac stag]

The lack we all have for still playing rogue.

[keen dome]

https://tenor.com/view/nadie-te-va-extrañar-gif-12299658362513429621

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/gigachad-cYftRpHujRiZEFPN7T

sub channel atm

[keen dome]

We're all Mr. Bean here.

There is no greater person to desire being

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-chill-apt-apt-apt-apt-gif-16505586974465544801

[keen dome]

maybe Mr. Blobby

But he's an Eldritch horror

[tribal blade]

the biggest question in here for the next 2 years is gonna be explaining the apex

[keen dome]

simple

just link them this

https://tenor.com/view/blobby-kick-football-soccer-gif-20472661

That's the Apex

[void ocean]

or just cancel subscription as i did xD

[tribal blade]

*the apex tooltip

nah actually just the apex in general you right

[tidal marsh]

BLOBBY

[lilac stag]

we’ll have a bot command in less than 2 weeks after release

[keen dome]

You push SecTec and it summons a guy to kick them in the shins

[keen dome]

And it'll just link mr. blobby right

[fleet wharf]

i really hope the shadows don't bug out

surely they'll never make anything that will stop working due to bugs

[lilac stag]

Then it’s just going to be !apex every 15 minutes interrupting actual useful discussion, like what was for dinner, or why @short radish doesn’t have insulation in the walls of his shack.

[tribal blade]

the fact that it's working on prepatch and beta is promising at least

but you never know when things will break

[fleet wharf]

i mean they just made it. it'll be fine now. I'm worried about what happens a patch or two down the road

[keen dome]

Shadow Clone bug but it's just the Smooth Larry imp issue and they wander off

[tribal blade]

in before clone dmg stops being attributed to sub in logs and you're doing healer dmg

[fleet wharf]

or some bosses don't take damage from clones

surely that could never happen

[tribal blade]

at least my raid team knows all about akaari's soul

because of logs

[keen dome]

It just attributes to random people

that'd be the funniest

[tribal blade]

that would be WILD

[fleet wharf]

closest person. now the meta is to be inside the boss's asshole the whole time

[keen dome]

Then it just atributes it to the boss

[fleet wharf]

has to be nonfriendly, surely they won't mess that up

[keen dome]

attributes it to a critter in the raid

Welcome 21st raid member: Void Rat

[void ocean]

wait what

elaborate.

[lilac stag]

Just auto attribute it to the lowest dps in the raid.

Even more silliness. It auto attributes to the sub rogue with that conditional.

[lilac stag]

The apex, the dinner or the paper walls without insulation?

[fleet wharf]

imagine having two rogues in a raid

[void ocean]

insulation

[tribal blade]

straya m8

[lilac stag]

Apparently thermal regulations are very lax in Australia. So their housing either uses double brick setup or panel walls without insulation.

[tribal blade]

just come here to HK where everything is concrete

and i mean everything

[wraith sphinx]

Even the bath?

[void ocean]

hare krishna?

[fleet wharf]

the concrete is problematic, but another problem is the size

[tribal blade]

yeah we have concrete pouring out the faucets

[wraith sphinx]

Holy

[tribal blade]

have to wash fast or else it hardens

https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/comments/1h093hx/hong_kong_the_concrete_jungle/

[void ocean]

are those apartments of like 2 square meters a myth or reality

[tribal blade]

go into the middle of the city in the hot humid summer and all the heat is trapped by the massive skyscrapers

[tribal blade]

it's very real

[fleet wharf]

you can also have that experience in hotels too lmao

[void ocean]

ive seen pics and i refuse to believe a human being can live in such a small place

[tribal blade]

they're called coffin apartments

[lilac stag]

I’m assuming they’re some type of real estate investing scheme

or is they fake views for Americans

[tribal blade]

HK has the most insane real estate prices in the world

[lilac stag]

concrete cities with zero inhabitants

[void ocean]

https://giphy.com/gifs/naJfQ2QGSclWnTE4OZ

[fleet wharf]

other parts of the world is catching up. don't worry

[tribal blade]

it's just the fact that there's no space here

[tribal blade]

that's sad to hear

[void ocean]

HK.rar

[tribal blade]

HK is built in probably the same square footage as NYC

similar

but it's hills and mountains here whereas NYC is flat

so space is way way more limited

[lilac stag]

the US has space, just the 1% controls all the costs. Keeping the middle class poor. U S A! U S A!

[void ocean]

just work harder, mate

[tribal blade]

yeah it's the same here

[fleet wharf]

just pull yourself up by the bootstraps mirite

[tribal blade]

massive wealth gap

[lilac stag]

And never get sick

Let alone injured

[fleet wharf]

don't worry, we're getting there too lmao

[tribal blade]

health care in US is so bonkers

[fleet wharf]

that the US has such a massive lead

no one can catch them there

[tribal blade]

sorry for your loss 🙁

[void ocean]

can we not talk about these communist things, ty

[fleet wharf]

yea, imagine not wanting to choose between physical death and economic death

[void ocean]

Mr. McCarthy not approving this

[lilac stag]

my 30 minute appointment with an orthopedic cost me 600 out of pocket, after insurance got billed out nearly 9000

[tepid trellis]

i choose both

[lilac stag]

Took me a month and a half to get the appointment. lol

[tribal blade]

JEEsus

[fleet wharf]

or americans telling onlookers to NOT call an ambulance

because they can't afford it

freedom

[scarlet heath]

heard from a friend of someone genuinely being scared more about ambulance coming for them than dying. US is wild

[fleet wharf]

yummy

[lilac stag]

My endocrinologist is booked out 8 months in advance. I’m supposed to go every 4-6 months for diabetic checkups.

[tribal blade]

yeah ambulance siren is basically a whistle for bankruptcy

[void ocean]

my health care is sponsored by the state, issue is we r a shithole so our best and average doctors are in germany

so guess the quality of health care

ppl die here during tonsils operation

[lilac stag]

We have a Dr shortage.
Govt hates immigrants.
Where are drs coming from? India. Well they were. now we just don’t have drs.

[scarlet heath]

I honestly cannot even imagine this situation lol, I am from a country with regular state health care

[tepid trellis]

i was at a chiropractor last wednesday 45min apointment for back/leg adjustments

[scarlet heath]

these stories are something that I would imagine 3rd world countries to have

not US

[tepid trellis]

what would that type of shit cost for you?

[lilac stag]

I’m trying to find a good Chinese acupuncturist. A bit of a struggle in cornfields.

[void ocean]

is chiro considered a medicine?

[fleet wharf]

it's not covered by insurance iirc

[scarlet heath]

the followup for your broken bones is

[void ocean]

its usually considered as an alternative meds

[lilac stag]

Chrio is rarely covered by insurance so it’s most out of pocket. Likely 60-85

[chrome palm]

is it a pseudoscience or not

[fleet wharf]

the bigger issue is the lack of standardization and regulation for chiros though

[plush roost]

Fellas, this trinket is garbage

[fleet wharf]

closer than not if I had to say

[tepid trellis]

my fiancee has a acupuncture "license" ill send her over

[plush roost]

1.5m xd 190k total damage xd

[void ocean]

id say its a glorified masseuse

[chrome palm]

i need my chi aligned can my insurance cover that

[fleet wharf]

Charrend, can't you see we're discussing very on topic things here

[void ocean]

theres always that one guy who asks game related questions here, smh

[lilac stag]

it works for some, not for all. Like most practices.

I worked with a rehab vet that did chiro and acupuncture. There’s no placebo effect for dogs. Usually knew within 4 treatments if it was helping.

She managed to grow a puppy coat of fur on a 7 year old border collie that lost nearly all of its coat from skin cancer and chemo. It was unreal.

[fleet wharf]

true, scath called it too

!apex

[lilac stag]

my dog gets chiro maintenance every 3-4 months. One to get hands on them to make sure everything is moving and I think it helps with injury prevention for what I do with them.

[plush roost]

Mb im just schizoposting here

[tepid trellis]

my old germ sherperd used to get hip adjustments when she got old to help with pain, and it really did wonders for her

[lilac stag]

Get us nerfed later. Kthx bye.

[tepid trellis]

and fwiw it also works temporarily for me which is why i do it

[void ocean]

rouble is, its rarely taught by official medical institutions so u get a lot of fakes... in my city a guy died on the table after chiro broke his 2 neck vertebrae

[alpine wraith]

big dog trink

[tepid trellis]

but im only doing it cuz i dont have to pay for it

[alpine wraith]

did you check the renown one is it decent

[fossil forge]

i tried physiotherapy last week best decision of my life

[fleet wharf]

that means something though, no? like actual regulations and science behind it?

[lilac stag]

100% and there def a difference between Eastern and western approaches to acupuncture.

A good eastern dr tries to use as few needles as possible, where west uses 20+ because of the “I’m only paying you for 2 needles wtf” perception

[fossil forge]

no blud acupuntcure and cupping

Massage basically

very nice 10/10 experience would go again

[lilac stag]

yeah cupping can def help some folks

[void ocean]

thai massage also helps

[lilac stag]

My insurance won’t cover acu, but it will cover dry needling. Which is basically a physio doing acu.

I hate it here

lol

[void ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A79MYlKg4uA

[fossil forge]

I paid 35€ for hour

Not so bad

[lilac stag]

oh that’s good

My 30 minutes of PT gets billed out at close to 1000$ to insurance.

[fossil forge]

I visited many doctors but none helped with back pain always just got sent home with pain meds

This actually helped a lot

[lilac stag]

I think we’re headed to an epidural injection for my back pain, and I can’t wait to see wtf that will cost.

[fossil forge]

broman even showed me some Easy 2 do exercises at home

[chrome palm]

if i find you getting acupuncture you better have your fucking feng shui set up at home or youre a poser

[tepid trellis]

[chrome palm]

mf got needles in his head meanwhile his bed is on the wrong wall (death)

[tribal blade]

50 bucks for a Qtip in the hospital kinda prices

[fossil forge]

room completly empty besides bed tv pc and a bong

[void ocean]

forget about the tv

[chrome palm]

-1000 chi

[tribal blade]

i hate chinese medicine

i think it's BS

[fossil forge]

I also have a lego bonsai so thats + points

[tribal blade]

but that's just me

[chrome palm]

mercury is good for you @tribal blade

take it every day

[tribal blade]

NICE drink it every day

[alpine wraith]

it even comes packaged nicely with some numbers in a thermometer

[void ocean]

who doesnt like a pair of elephant tusks grinded itno the powerful powder

[tribal blade]

the last time i went to see a chinese medicine doctor being forced by my mom he felt my pulse for 30 seconds then diagnosed me on the spot

with kidney problems

[alpine wraith]

also eat the balls of all the animals you can find

[tribal blade]

20 years later i'm fine

[alpine wraith]

yang deficiency

[tribal blade]

holy shit if only this were a meme and not actually true /cry

[lilac stag]

I lost my good acupuncturist.

I built about 1/4 of the homes of the subdivision we live in. This one couple bought a 4800 sq ft home with a full walk out basement. Basically for 4 generations of their family.

The basement was a gdamn alchemy lab that would make breaking bad look tame. She’s not charge me for the acu treatment since they were so happy with the home.

[tribal blade]

the other week i had to pour scalding smelly tea concoction on my face as part of a chinese new year cleansing thing or something

i just do it to humor my mom

[lilac stag]

legit ran her acu and herbal med business out of the home

[void ocean]

its a year of the horse, right?

[tribal blade]

i'm TERRIFIED of needles

tried acupunture once and ended up worse than i started because i was so tense

[lilac stag]

You don’t feel a thing

Once gv20 gets hit

[tribal blade]

oh yeah but i have a legit phobia of needles

it's one of my biggest fears

[lilac stag]

Now be a diabetic with that fear

[fossil forge]

I have needle phobia but its not even close to like when they take ur blood

[void ocean]

so u never went to thousand needles

[fossil forge]

Just a slight little pinch and relief

[tribal blade]

oh yeah for sure

but i still can't relax around needles

i can do shots and stuff because i just deal with the fear

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dentist-scared-escape-gif-15237238

[void ocean]

i shouldnt probably tell u the story when i donated almost half a litre of blood after only 3 hours of sleep

[tribal blade]

dude the last time i had a dentist inject my gums i started whimpering as it was happening and the assistant stroked my hand

to comfort me

[chrome palm]

i cant take ||pills|| 🙈

[tribal blade]

oh really!

that's an actual skill

you mean you can't swallow pills?

[void ocean]

there r different ways

😄

[tribal blade]

up the pooper

[chrome palm]

none of them work

ok

[tribal blade]

lower your trousers

[chrome palm]

havent tried that one

[void ocean]

bend over

[chrome palm]

HUH

[tribal blade]

fun story, a long time ago my friend gave me a condom and an ecstasy pill and told me to put the condom over my finger and stick the pill up my butt in the bathroom

so i did it

[lilac stag]

I shouldn’t tell you the story of when I was 16 or 17 and at an endocrinology office and the phlebotomist took 11 attempts to draw blood. 4 between each arm and 3 from the hand. Mind you I’ve got very high set veins.

Nearly passed out. Cursed the fuck out of the entire office and walked out.

[tribal blade]

i had a wild youth

[void ocean]

HWTA THE FUCK

[tribal blade]

oh yeah

i don't think i've ever told this channel my insane history haha

i used to do a lot of drugs way back in the day

i was a WILD MAN

[lilac stag]

Welcome to the week before launch in #subtlety

WHY IS SUB 2 BUTTONS?!?!

did I tell you when I shoved ecstasy up my ass in a condom?

[void ocean]

this has to be pinned

[tribal blade]

wasn't even that bad!

a bit uncomfy

[void ocean]

hey at least ur friend didnt offer to insert it himself

[tribal blade]

lol nah

he's an aussie bloke

[lilac stag]

That was for later

[tribal blade]

i stopped doing drugs and he kept going, so he looks like 30 years older than he actually is now sadly

[lilac stag]

this is the lore that makes playing another class difficult. Hahahah

[alpine wraith]

dont worry at least he is alive

[tribal blade]

he is! i think

[fleet wharf]

Weren't you playing warrior though scath

[tribal blade]

i don't go on facebook anymore

[lilac stag]

the general friendship and antics that is the history in here is almost comical.

[tribal blade]

holy i'm looking at him on FB and the wrinkles he has are crazy

[alpine wraith]

we are few but strong

[lilac stag]

For 1/3 of s3 yeah. Shout > dbl rogue and we couldn’t find a warrior that wasn’t BiS first two deaths.

Still stayed here.

[void ocean]

its from sunlight, he is aussie

[alpine wraith]

some of us have been shot ran over stabbed

and still trucking

[tribal blade]

oh no it's 100% because of the drugs

[fleet wharf]

yea raiding without shout is no bueno

[lilac stag]

It’s from lack of insulation in his home

[tribal blade]

but the sunlight definitely doesn't help yeah, esp when he's going out to raves and that kind of stuff inthe outback

baking in the sun

[tribal blade]

MAYBE

[fleet wharf]

but sunscreen is :checks notes: gay or something

[lilac stag]

Thankfully fury was chill

[tribal blade]

here's a photo

[lilac stag]

Tomorrow: what else did @tribal blade stick up his prison pocket

[tribal blade]

chose one that's hard to see his full face just in case

[tribal blade]

HAHA

more stories some other time

[lilac stag]

I’m so using this for discord id

[tribal blade]

watching him age twice as fast as all the other people i knew from back then makes me sad

[lilac stag]

Good should be on fbi watchlist vibes

[tribal blade]

he's a good guy, he just really really likes to party

there was a group of 4 of us back then, and the rest of us cleaned up long ago

he never did

[lilac stag]

Growing up can be a challenge

[tribal blade]

yeah drugs are fun until they're destroying your life

[lilac stag]

I’m curious if Gen Z, which is avoiding alcohol will crash out in their 40 and do a 180 into alcoholism and drug abuse

[tribal blade]

LOL

yeah i heard about that

it's so crazy because when we were teens it was the cool thing to do

[fleet wharf]

you need money to buy alcohol and drugs

[tribal blade]

go out and get drunk

[fleet wharf]

so they will not do that

[red vortex]

gen Z doesnt work

and dont wanna work

[lilac stag]

You can manufacture your own

[red vortex]

so cant buy alcohol

[tribal blade]

they just replaced alcohol with weed

[red vortex]

gen Z is not inovative either

[void ocean]

move to Balkans, it grows on trees here

[tribal blade]

people in the US smoke a crazy amount of weed now

[void ocean]

even worse, they walk with their shoes on inside

[lilac stag]

Maybe they’re just stunted in their innovativeness an will bloom in their 40s

[red vortex]

W copium

[tribal blade]

gross

[north schooner]

or in bed

[lilac stag]

random note. Redbull Sugarfree Peach is such a banger flavor.

[tribal blade]

yeah the in bed thing is another level

[tribal blade]

i just drink coffee 😉

i love coffee

[lilac stag]

I do not like coffee. Taste like soap

[void ocean]

have u tried rinsing the mug before

[tribal blade]

i've loved coffee since i was a kid smelling it as the first thing that hits you when you board a plane

loved the smell before i had even tasted it 10 years later

[plush roost]

whta trinket is that?

[lilac stag]

I’ve tried it a few times, even in deserts. It’s like cilantro to some people.

[alpine wraith]

it is like the pheromone one that we had in TWW

seems decentish

[lilac stag]

#wow-general please.

[void ocean]

i still remember back in high school when coffee actually affected my state of awakeness

[plush roost]

?

[plush roost]

67

[alpine wraith]

no it is a renown trinket but well we will see

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/67-67-meme-67-umpire-umpire-mlb-gif-16280715357512483999

[alpine wraith]

it is renown 7 with some faction i forgot

[lilac stag]

I also don’t get the putting so much shit in a cup of coffee that it’s barely any actual coffee.

[plush roost]

im seeing no trinkets on renown tracks on wowhead rn

[lilac stag]

Look in game?

[alpine wraith]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/singularity-renown-guide

this trink i think

[lilac stag]

I wonder if the Darkmoon shit is any good

[alpine wraith]

usually it is decent but problem nowadays is you go and farm M+ for hero track trinks

[limpid sage]

do you guys know if you get the myth track appearance of an item, if you upgrade from hero 4/8->5/8 this ssn as well?

[lilac stag]

Prepatch or?

Basically once you hit the next “breakpoint” you get the appearance.

[limpid sage]

ah ok sick

[lilac stag]

They added if you get full mythic tierset transmog, it unlocks all 3 of the lower transmogs

[limpid sage]

ye I saw that

that's a nice change

[plush roost]

if i speak im in big trouble

[lilac stag]

give it a rest. Go play outlaw.

also enjoy perfect comp

[chrome palm]

If they nerf sub for the fourth time in a row

[plush roost]

Bro bshout skyfury

so good

[chrome palm]

You mean like

What a mage has in every group they’re in

That’s just how it’s supposed to be

[frigid cloud]

Hey guys, I have a specific question about the Trickster optimization during Shadow Dance.

The current rule is: If you're at full Combo Points but have 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques, cast Shadowstrike (even at capped CP) to trigger Ancient Arts. My question is about a specific scenario: Let's say I have a very high stack of Shadow Techniques (e.g., 10+). If I follow this rule, the first Finisher will immediately refill my Combo Points for a second Finisher because of the high stacks.

In this case, if I still have 5 or more stacks of Shadow Techniques remaining after that first Finisher, should I still cast another Shadowstrike (at capped CP) just to trigger Ancient Arts again before the next Finisher? Or should I just send the Finisher immediately since my CP is already full?

I’m trying to understand if the priority is to always have the Ancient Arts buff active for every single Finisher during Dance, even if it means 'wasting' a GCD and overcapping CP with Shadowstrike.

[keen dome]

Can you leave some DPS for the rest of us

[plush roost]

yes your rotation becomes build finish build finish until less than 5 sht

[frigid cloud]

well it feels quite counter-intuitive for me

and the optimization indicates it's still worth to overcapp cps, right?

[lilac stag]

optimizations rarely feel intuitive

[swift tinsel]

Like half a percent gain

[lilac stag]

welcome to sub

[lilac stag]

Think it was 1.5%

[frigid cloud]

I want to understand the ultimate goal of this optimization using Ancient Arts. Is the main objective to have the Shadow Clones replicate the damage of Shadowstrike itself? Or is there another reason behind this priority?

[lilac stag]

You’re force triggering apex

We’re a spec that has stored cps. We use them in whatever manner maximized dps gains.

this isn’t finish on 5 like assa or 6 or 5 like gunslinger

You can finis on 6 or 7 if you want and just go about your business

[plush roost]

look at it this way, what does more damage3 eviserate in dance with only 2 apex proc or 3 with 3 apex procs?

[lilac stag]

You just won’t be maxing dps

[plush roost]

You also shouldnt be doing this all the time, like theres a logic behind going sec tec strike evis (apex) strike evis (apex) evis if u only have 6 globals in dance

if u have 7 globals, then its optimal to strike between refunds one more time

[frigid cloud]

So the priority is to maximize the 'quality' of each Eviscerate with the buff, even if it means sacrificing the total number of Eviscerates or overcapping Combo Points. It's all about that damage-per-GCD efficiency during the Dance window, right?

[plush roost]

Just to maximize gcd quality but yeah thats the gist

Every gcd matters a ton for sub

This is our profile, u can see just how important dance gcds are

[lilac stag]

I really don’t think people quite grasp how strong Sectech / Dance every 25 seconds or so is. Still in dance is “weak” mindset

[plush roost]

Ye 160-180k dps spikes

Very powerful

This is without bshout brand hunters mark mystic touch power pot too 8)

[lilac stag]

I’m curious if we can just skip onuse trinkets

[plush roost]

I legit wont be surprised if sub cops another nerf ngl

[plush roost]

Ive been 2 passive for the last 3 weeks

I had a pbox stint but its just worse imo

Now that the embels and pots are nerfed

[lilac stag]

I just don’t see blades having enough juice to be that excited for on use

[plush roost]

I mean, blades is basically 260-280k dps window

Its pretty powerful

Just not what it was

[lilac stag]

Yeah

It’s not flag blades 18 stack

Which is probably a good thing if they let us keep the 25-30 second juice

[plush roost]

Ye i think death perception turns sblades from a meh extra 20% shadow to a 20% shadow amp AND 10% damage stacking on your other modifiers. Insane talent

[frigid cloud]

Does this mean the damage contribution from Shadow Blades has decreased a bit compared to last season, while the average damage during Shadow Dance has actually gone up?

[tulip light]

what trinkets look juicy from first tier so far?

[vale pine]

the 90 sec haste on use

it has a nice animation

[warm marlin]

yes, regular dances are stronger, full 90s are weaker

though 90s also comprise 2 dances so it's kinda hard to perfect compare

mostly due to losing flag/prism

and the cp from blades being a bit less valuable due to the insane amount of sht we generate now

[frigid cloud]

@warm marlin @plush roost thanks guys it helped me a lot

[swift tinsel]

it was 1.5% originally but iirc Eleem said something got fixed in sims so it was closer to 0.5%

#subtlety message

[warm marlin]

it was 7% initially

[swift tinsel]

even better lmao

[warm marlin]

shadowstrike clones were doing about 4-5x their intended damage

[swift tinsel]

german 1's look like 7 so I'm gonna headcanon that

https://tenor.com/view/mental-gymnastics-rdbtc-gif-639618955334743183

[lilac stag]

What Ryldd explained

[warm marlin]

it's basically that you could finish again and get 1.0x eviscerates then build for 1.0x shadowstrikes (maybe more with consuming 3 sht), or you could build again and proc the clone, getting 1.8x eviscerates (the clone one does about 80% of a regular one) and also get 1.0x shadowstrikes

[lilac stag]

why are our 2 buttons sooooo confusing?

[warm marlin]

you end up casting less eviscerates overall (even including the clone ones), but shadowstrike is strong enough that the overall output is higher

[lilac stag]

@vale pine !apex when?

[warm marlin]

which is why it's not worth it in aoe (bp is miles and eons better than storm)

[wispy pebble]

i had to change my keybinds because storm and bp are used way more now. Still feels weird ngl

[fiery fog]

heyo, havent played since end of DF
has sub become easier to manage?
or rather easier overall?

[swift tinsel]

every spec in the game has gotten easier

blizzard intentionally aimed to simplify design across the board

[vale pine]

whats !apex?

[maiden oar]

except bear

[fiery fog]

yeah but like no flag, symbols, rupture?
the rotation seems rather simple and it seems like sub only needs to check for dance/sectec/sb timings?

[lilac stag]

What we’re going to need in here

[swift tinsel]

yep

time dance with sectech and make sure you can double dance during blades

[maiden oar]

also wanna react to sht and manually proc apex w 5+ in some situations

[fiery fog]

crazy how it went from dust to this

[maiden oar]

but thats a minor gain

[lilac stag]

you haven’t played retail in a bit have you?

[fiery fog]

quitted during s1 war within because of internet issues lmao

[lilac stag]

still more to track on sub then most specs

[maiden oar]

its ok wow devs change their mind alot itll be different again

[swift tinsel]

it didn't read as being any more difficult than currently

[lilac stag]

welcome to midnight

[vale pine]

okay, thanks for the explenation

[maiden oar]

marginally less braindead

hehe

[lilac stag]

I figure in a week that’s going to be the majority of “huh?!?” What?!?

[wispy pebble]

Only after release though no? Pre patch kinda mega braindead?

[swift tinsel]

ig in st you're watching your rage a bit more lol

and not just IF spamming

[lilac stag]

Release is in 4 days.

[wispy pebble]

I know. Cant wait !!!

[maiden oar]

and u gap actual dps players

so cool

[swift tinsel]

yea saw that bear was pumping which is funny

[lilac stag]

and just tracking 2 CDs and 3 resources is way more than most classes

[swift tinsel]

good for them

we have a bear one-trick in guild and he's so excited lol

[lilac stag]

Rip week 1 nerfs to him

[fiery fog]

its just this + outside of cds backstab into 6+ cp evis?
i feel like im missing something

[tidal blade]

does fuu have a twitch channel?

[swift tinsel]

its really quite simple

which is a departure from how sub was previously

so the disparity makes it seem that much easier

[lilac stag]

Play around Sectech. Win.

track ShT. Win a little more.

[swift tinsel]

going from a piano opener, using sod+supercharger to pull sectech cd, timing flag/blades all gone

[vale pine]

i do, but i don't stream, my hardware is way too bad for streaming

[fiery fog]

sht was the cp refund right

[swift tinsel]

sht+shadowcraft

now the refund is baked into our apex talents

[maiden oar]

also proccing apex on coup is nice if u can line that up

but thats a lv90 thing

[swift tinsel]

shadowcraft is purely a sht increase during dance now

[lilac stag]

All prepatch questions are now banable offenses.

[tidal blade]

great

[swift tinsel]

time for a GoFuundMe

[vale pine]

XD

[lilac stag]

That time was last year.

Ain’t no one can afford parts this day in age even with go fund me

[swift tinsel]

if he can raise $1.5mil that's like...32GB ram

[lilac stag]

And what’s he doing for a HD?

[onyx flame]

What do you need? We need a good rogue streamer

Watching petko play sub hurts my inner organs

[swift tinsel]

dang shots fired

[tidal blade]

charrend is streaming

[swift tinsel]

petko isn't a gamer he's an engagement farmer now

[lilac stag]

Charrend is getting us nerfed. Don’t support that man.

[tidal blade]

EMERGENCY TIER LIST UPDATE

[lilac stag]

Only watch his assa and gunslinger streams

xd

[wispy pebble]

Bruh

[tidal blade]

yeah it's ridiculous lol

[wispy pebble]

i just took a look at his channel. How can i block people on YT?

[tacit zealot]

whats up with the hate xD

[tidal blade]

a lot of veterans don't enjoy tier list engagement farming

[swift tinsel]

its just low-quality content

[tacit zealot]

internet is low quality content

he does it since people follow it

[swift tinsel]

which doesn't make it any better, if anything just makes it worse to perpetuate

[wispy pebble]

How can i not hate

CHOOSE YOUR MAIN!!!!!!!!!!111111

[alpine wraith]

update 8 what a chad

[cursive vapor]

life is good when not givin a single damn about videos like these

[warm marlin]

Making money off wow videos is hard

poor guy trying to get his bag

[tacit zealot]

new generation doesn't like the RPG part of it at all, they play it like LoL or dota, they pick ther characters like a champion select 😄

[warm marlin]

(im still gonna meme him though)

[onyx flame]

I mean, it kinda is in M+

[wispy pebble]

now that you mention lol. This reminds me of nightblue

[alpine wraith]

yea wow views are like 10x less than LE ones

even less than poe

[keen dome]

Gonna make a video called "Choose your starter" and dress it up like picking a class for Midnight

[alpine wraith]

but also because it is kinda a niche into a niche into a niche

[keen dome]

and then it's just discussing battle pets

[onyx flame]

Retail is just super boring to watch outside of rwf/mdi

[cursive vapor]

soon they'll call it heroes and not classes anymore

wow in general is not the best game to watch tbh

[swift tinsel]

even then rwf isn't all that exciting unless its very close

[wispy pebble]

I think most games are insanely boring to watch nowadays. The streamer personality is way more important.

Lolesport is fun though

[swift tinsel]

League is fun bc its a whole different ecosystem

[tacit zealot]

Probably most universal thing to watch and have fun is cs2 / valorant

Learning curve to watch is simple

[swift tinsel]

eh

[wispy pebble]

But watching YT videos where people play the game is also mega boring

[tacit zealot]

Flashy plays are cool

[tidal blade]

i love watching dota 2, but i have so many hours in that game

[swift tinsel]

yeah like wow has arguably the worst content to try and monetize from a pure gameplay perspective

[jolly sleet]

some content creators have genuily interesting content tho, it depends on what you take out of the video

learning is so freaking cool

having a 150th tier list doesn't bring you anything, but a video that teaches you some fun quirks about lesser played specs would be great for example

[wispy pebble]

League streamers with the millionth unranked to challenger or a-z challenge

[tacit zealot]

I mean tierlist in theory is not bad at all, people following it like a religion are terrible

Same with everything on the internet

[swift tinsel]

but they're also quite subjective

and pushed as being gospel

from people who make their entire presence about pushing them

[wispy pebble]

they are also insanely unreliable especially with changes being made every week

[swift tinsel]

^^^

[jolly sleet]

yeah but it depends on what you put in the tier list too, i thin quazzii have had a very nice "what tank suits you" video series before the unfortunate events

[wispy pebble]

thats not a tierlist though .-.

[warm marlin]

the only wow I watch outside of rwf/mdi is some tier list stuff to see general opinions, some beta content, and high keys to learn routes/strats on the seasons i care to play

[jolly sleet]

yeah but the concept is not that different : taking all specs, saying what they bring, what are their limitations, if you just add a grade from F tro S its a tier list

[tacit zealot]

well everything is subjective which doesn't have academic background, even that can be discussed

[haughty mural]

the concept is pretty different

[tacit zealot]

again followers are problem not creators

you read something -> you digest it -> if you digest it poorly thats your problem

[vale pine]

the best way to learn is to ask

[swift tinsel]

"choose your main"

idk that's pretty pointed

[vale pine]

if something feels wrong, just ask and discuss

getting an explenation or diffrent perspective just makes you better as a player

[jolly sleet]

what is well thought is well said and words to tell it are easy to come by : if your message wasn't clear enough to get understood as it was meant, for me that's on you and not on your listeners

[swift tinsel]

maybe like 70/30

[jolly sleet]

yeah, truth is somewhere in the middle

[swift tinsel]

because understanding is also subjective up to a certain point

plato, cave, etc

[lilac stag]

Choose your main while I can’t even try both hero talents. Pointed and dishonest.

just post ai slop if you’re gonna half ass it that poorly

[jolly sleet]

wouldnt be surprised if some cc ask chatgpt for their videos content creation

i mean, if you dont even do the "creator" part of your job whats even the point

[lilac stag]

get your bag on TikTok

[tacit zealot]

I mean you are overexaggarating "fun" content

[alpine wraith]

explaining things and guides have quite low reach for yt on wow

we kinda do it for the love of the game

it is easier to just read most of the time

[lilac stag]

fun content when the dude Is trying to make a living

[vale pine]

whats the discussion?

i am busy, so not entirely following

[tacit zealot]

he is not lying, he is doing it best he can

making tierlist is hard

[haughty mural]

lmao

[lilac stag]

petkos shitlists

[alpine wraith]

some people do like just wathing 10 tier lists

[lilac stag]

Just 🛑

[tacit zealot]

lets move from petko for a moment, what do you think about Max tierlist?

[warm marlin]

unironically expecting someone to play all 26 or whatever dps specs is a lot

[vale pine]

i spend 100s of hours gathering information.
I know petko's tierlist is bad, so i created my own, here it is:

[warm marlin]

to a level that mains would be happy with

[vale pine]

as you see, subtlety is S tier

[tacit zealot]

exactly

[vale pine]

if you want to play rogue, its your best choice currently going from the tier list

[jolly sleet]

sub :
fantasy ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
gameplay ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
utility ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐

so naturally its a F tier dogshit spec don't ever play it

[vale pine]

assassiantion is only A, and outlaw is in the "Meh" tier

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-there-sandbagger-swgoh-sandbag-territory-war-galaxy-of-heroes-gif-16411237

[wispy pebble]

lmao

[lilac stag]

Marceleon & Flame do a nice job with this. Really solid in what they find fun and why while also checking class discords.

[tacit zealot]

lolololol

[warm marlin]

I did not watch his stuff

but that is certainly a better approach than petko rawdog trying to play all of them himself

[tacit zealot]

marcelian wrote resto shaman is S tier fun

[jolly sleet]

fact is : no one mains the whole 36 specs of the game so all tierlist are made on assumptions and superficial understanding of the game

[tacit zealot]

there is no world of that happening

[lilac stag]

Not surprised. You’re not the target.

[warm marlin]

I would say I can play quite a few specs to a good level but i would never act as if I could make a tier list of all of them and be accurate

[tacit zealot]

except again fun is subjective and tierlist is shit anyways

[jolly sleet]

and thats not even taking into account the fact that "fun" is subjective

yes

[torn tide]

lmao and if u dont?

[lilac stag]

You do realize fun is subjective and they explain why they find it fun. You’re just doing some edgy mental gymnastics here.

if you enjoy petko go throw him a sub or whatever.

If you enjoy max go throw him a sub

[tacit zealot]

well I'm poining you in a right direction, but you are just hating

[warm marlin]

the max tierlist was good but it was corrupted by the perceived impact of the list on balance changes

and certain classes are not honest

or certain creators that are repeatedly brought back

not pointing at anyone in particular (AZOR, KALAMAZI)

[lilac stag]

Your Stupidity in tier lists isn’t the right direction.

[warm marlin]

(TETTLES)

[tacit zealot]

xD

ok go follow marcelian

you obv dont know what tierlist is about

[swift tinsel]

man's been a criminal for YEARS

no longer doing balance guide finally lol

[vale pine]

follow your intuition

[jolly sleet]

whats a good tier list ?
tier lists that are fine are those who make your favorite specs S tiers. Those might mean something for you

[vale pine]

tier list content is completely pointless

[keen dome]

Fuu's tier list is the only good one

[vale pine]

thats not to say, the people doing so are

but their incentive is moneytary not information providing

the reality of things is

you can't have a prediction for what will be good

[keen dome]

I can predict that Sub will be within the top three Rogue specs. Factually, so.

[vale pine]

the ONLY thing you can go by is "oh this is clearly completely op, so there is a high chance that it might not get nerfed enough before the raid"

[brave raptor]

People that reroll meta and still being gapped by OTP players be like :surprised pikachu meme:

[vale pine]

everything else is as relevant as throwing darts blind folded at an answer board

[shrewd sage]

New to the spec and class…am I only pressing shadow dance when either blades or secret technique is available? And only at six or more cp?

[jolly sleet]

never forget that 4th specs are coming

[vale pine]

tier list metas exploded because people demand information

[keen dome]

rgoue tank spec

[vale pine]

and nobody wants to be honest and say "you need to wait for the raid to open"

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/jeong-eunji-apink-eunji-apink-gif-22868821

[vale pine]

you can rate if something is fun

but fun in wow is very dependent on output

we had very good rotaitons

and i learned them to people

and i asked them, is it fun

most did say "its hella funn"

after a week

[tacit zealot]

I mean on every discord thats happening 5000 times per day

[vale pine]

i saw many not play subtlety at all anymore

[wispy pebble]

thats why they had to get DH and Evoker to 3 first. Trust me

[vale pine]

the reason?

"tank damage is not fun"

so the intial "i do damage" part of the discovery was fun

[lilac stag]

Did you write it out in German black lettering after the first week? That would be less fun

[tacit zealot]

on half of the discords, question pops up 151515 times per day, are we cooked, are we doing well, even in december or january

anybody sane would understand its impossible to know

[vale pine]

but once they learned the basics, and started comparing

tuning was the only reminding fun factor

[vale pine]

thats the nature of discords or theorycrafting

or any information provider in general

[tacit zealot]

but thats also the state of crowd digesting information

tierlist is a fun content nothing informative and thats it

you can follow development of tuning between specs

[vale pine]

youtube content cration is entertainment

[tacit zealot]

and what is maybe blizzard thinking about them

[vale pine]

just tread it like that

[tacit zealot]

yea thats what I'm trying to point out all the time

[vale pine]

there is educational content, but the big channels are typically not that

[hazy breach]

Fine -8%

[vale pine]

windflurry tax

[jolly sleet]

remove shaman plz

[tacit zealot]

well again, it's about expectation. nobody can expect one guy being proficient in every spec and doing it perflectly

then you have max tierlist who tries getting expert in every spec

and then you have tettles and preheat

who lower it 2 tiers every time

and we are on the square one, its impossible to make it educational, just have fun about it

[vale pine]

i think max approach is good

the problem is

[floral geyser]

the only tier list that matters is tier set design tier list. rogue one looks dumb tho IMO for s1. like lvling gear

[vale pine]

there is no metric of comparison

so people are incentivised to either downplay their specs

or hype up if they want more people to play

[wispy pebble]

Rogue sets sadly look like shit 80% of the time

[floral geyser]

i like manaforge one

normal black

[vale pine]

there is a reason we don't have the perfect meta day one in m+

and thats because a lot of things are not explored enough

it takes time to gather information, test strategies, etc

[wispy pebble]

I also like it but the stupid colors barely match with other pieces

Its like the 50th shadow of black somehow

[floral geyser]

😄

[fallow nimbus]

The tww s1 and s3 sets looked like they got switched around

[wispy pebble]

True lol

I really like the aberrus set

[swift tinsel]

shredder set

[vale pine]

neverless, i think its best to not be super concerned about tier lists

its fun to see how people view the world in diffrent flavors

[floral geyser]

ya im sur ethey will buff arms

b4 raid

[vale pine]

enjoy the entertainment, while we wait for the new xpac to release

[wispy pebble]

im sure the 3 people left playing arms would be happy 😄

[vale pine]

nice, so we are 6 people if we combine subtlety and arms

[wispy pebble]

Hell yea

[lilac stag]

At least we get battle shout then.

[wispy pebble]

Utility! Huge

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/airplane-first-time-nervous-80s-movies-gif-19769548

[torn tide]

do u think holy priest is gonna cut it in midnight btw, i genuinely think holy priest will be shit in midnight

dungeons do so much damage like seat of the triumvirate

[idle aurora]

It doesn’t matter the white tier set from hallowfall event is bis anyways

[astral axle]

ive tanked a lot of dungeons in midnight beta and holy priest is uber suss

imo

[idle aurora]

Cool mask, daggers on shoulders, potions on belt, cool white backpack

[astral axle]

But otoh, I'm a shaman purist. I play prot warrior when i tank. And I don't want any other healer than a shaman

[idle aurora]

When has holy priest not been uber sus in m+

[astral axle]

no clue

[idle aurora]

Classic? Non m+ dungeons maybe

[astral axle]

I avoid anything except shaman. And sometimes monk.

[idle aurora]

Monk should hopefully be better this season with their rot spec. I still have nightmares about doing that effing candle boss with Mistweavers post 13-14

[astral axle]

anything better than holy or pres

I mainly just dont like to hear pres whine about stacking up though

[torn tide]

whats uber suss?

[next pulsar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torn tide]

real, shaman healing is so so nice

[torn tide]

i kinda assume its a bad thing cuz everytime i play with a holy priest as healer they can barely keep up or the tank is healing more than them

[astral axle]

Their ability to keep up group healing and provide healing to tanks when needed is dubious is what I mean

Yeah I was healing more as prot warrior than most holy priests in group. And that’s kinda yikers!

[torn tide]

agreed

[torn tide]

prot warrior healing more than them is crazy

the holy priest in my main team is very very adamant on staying as holy priest so oh well

[ruby drum]

Hi guys,
Cast Shadow Blades during Shadow Dance
Cast Secret Technique during Shadow Dance with 6 or more combo points

Why is that? can i just first press shadow blades and then shadow dance? and why secret technique while shadow dance is active?

[lilac stag]

Do you understand what dance does?

[fathom adder]

you can press blades + dance at the same time. sectec gains dmg inside of dance

[hazy breach]

You can press shadow blades and immediately after cast dance yes

But you do more damage during dance

So you want to cast sectech during dance

[ruby drum]

what talent increasing me dmg during shadow dance?

[vale pine]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

Lots of them

[ruby drum]

well, i see, thanks guys

[lilac stag]

would def spend some time reading your skills and talents. Sectech is huge and we play around that for the most part.

[haughty mural]

seems the word has spread that arms is garbo
struggling to get inv to mythic pug with my warrior

thx petko

[lilac stag]

good thing you’re a DK in midnight

[haughty mural]

DK slot is done now

just nobody wants to play warrior

[lilac stag]

oh no

[haughty mural]

i wonder why

[lilac stag]

warrior 🤝 rogue

[haughty mural]

could just play double sub as always
but i would shoot myself in the foot

[lilac stag]

People will play it once they see fury pumping keys

[haughty mural]

just such a teamplayer^^

[haughty mural]

ill probably do that in keys yea
but i enjoy arms so much more in raid

[lilac stag]

arms needs Jesus

It was so bad last tier as well

[haughty mural]

everybody was coping the nerfs were just to readjust the dmg breakdown
now it is >40% cleave in dungeons and the danger is, cleave will stay in ST

because it might have higher execute than execute

whatever tuning will come - as it did with sub in lou

[astral axle]

Don't forget arms' specialty: 2 target cleave

[barren pilot]

Ummm my magic eightball would like a word with you outside.

https://tenor.com/view/youre-fucked-the-simpsons-magic-eight-gif-15834392

[haughty mural]

[mortal geyser]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

Better hope it’s not sub in bfa

[floral geyser]

whats that called again? i didn' tplay tww much

[shrewd lantern]

at least fury is looking ok

[lilac stag]

that’s like saying at least assa looks ok in this channels.

[haughty mural]

[swift tinsel]

does fury take bladestorm at 90 as slayer or still avatar

[bleak night]

avatar feels so redundant as fury

im kinda surprised they kept it for them

[vale pine]

time to purge

[swift tinsel]

yeah its like our blades+flag

or dance+sod

kinda surprised it wasn't just prot/arms

[bleak night]

the only reason i can think is they just didnt want to bother decoupling mountain thane from it

[swift tinsel]

ah yeah I suppose

shoulda just gone back in the class tree

or the Thane talent makes you cast Avatar when you cast Reck

[bleak night]

like at least with the flag/blades situation flag was a button on the gcd that kinda felt like it was contributing to an opener

but avatar/recklessness are both just ogcds that increase your damage a bit and have the exact same cd/cdr

[swift tinsel]

yeah, I mostly meant in that it was a damage amp for blades

they're very much redundant tho like you said

I'm just imagining playing trickster but not having evisc/coup lol

[idle aurora]

Idk I think it’s the delv set or something from s2 if you goto hallowfall and to the bug invasion event weekly you can get it. I took like four leather chars over there and every hour did it on them.

It’s siiiiiiiiiick looking

[shrewd sage]

New to the spec…I’m never firing shadow dance by itself always making sure it’s paired with a sectec ready, correct?

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

Except when blades is up

[shrewd sage]

So if blades is up I ignore sec tec and use dance with blades? I understand that sec tec and dance will always be close to ready at same time but I’m asking just in case lol

[swift tinsel]

you'll generally want to use dance+sectech+blades but for the 2nd dance in blades its not guaranteed you'll have a sectech for it

[sick basin]

I think with current tuning they are going to be going blade storm from what I read last. But yeah it's kinda weird

It's basically just one CD as they just make a macro for both

[swift tinsel]

just funny to see them recommending avatar for slayer lol

and saying bladestorm is a strong single target cooldown

[sick basin]

It gives a ton of haste now doesn't it?

It's kinda turned into a CD and not just use for dmg

[swift tinsel]

it has a handful of interactions with slayer hero tree

but gives 15% haste

with one of the new hero talents

[shrewd sage]

Ok thanks for help. I think I’ve been doing well so far just looking to manage the cooldowns better in awkward situations.

[swift tinsel]

you'll have a bit more leeway with the midnight s1 tier set since it adds 4 sec to blades, making it 20 seconds

but if sectech cd is ~20 sec it'll lead to things not lining up since blades isn't an increment of 20 as a 90 second cd

so you'll find yourself holding blades for a bit sometimes to have everything ready

#subtlety message some good info

[astral axle]

in pure st avatar still is better than bladestorm for slayer, the bladestorm spec.

Thankfully there's no pure st so bladestorm takes the dub

[odd sandal]

I was just watching a video with someone talking about Sub and they kept getting a proc, would that be the apex talents?

[swift tinsel]

if it was two spell effects on either side of their character yeah

[odd sandal]

Yep that's it, I was wondering what the hell kept procing then figured it was the new talents

[swift tinsel]

that tells you your next finisher will proc the apex clone effect/refund thing

[radiant swift]

how does the math exactly work? the idea im guessing is having everything back up at the same time but i cant figure the 19sec part

[fallow ingot]

Guys i beg you, sorry to post here, do we have an expert of friendly nameplates pls ?

i'm losing my mind

[swift tinsel]

ask the guy who mathed it

[radiant swift]

makes sense

[warm marlin]

dance is a 20s cd, sectec is about 20s. if you hold blades to 100s, it all lines up nicely!

[radiant swift]

no that i know but it was more about the "wait till 6 sec left on blades" part

u essentialy moved a dance for 14 sec and had a gap of 6 sec no dance in blades

is what i understood

[warm marlin]

you can't full cover blades when its 20s long anyway

not enough juice

[radiant swift]

do we not have 2x

[warm marlin]

you need like 2.5k haste for dance to be 10 seconds long

[swift tinsel]

blades is longer than 2x dance (unless tfd)

with tier set

[warm marlin]

you either have the last 4s or so of blades raw or the middle, if you hold the second dance you can cover sectec as it comes up at the last couple globals of blades

[radiant swift]

true its 10sec for first dance and then 6 for 2

[warm marlin]

apl work in progress

[radiant swift]

no makes sense

and the idea was to cover last 6 sec and send a nuke stec ?

or rather its better to have a gap but cover stec

with dance

[warm marlin]

robot normally sends that sectec anyway, you just move the dance a bit to cover it

never gonna overcap dance anyway so might as well

[radiant swift]

seems simple enough

i see so its in general better to hold blades

than the other way around

[warm marlin]

yes

[swift tinsel]

yeah bit of a paradigm shift

felt very wrong at first lol

[radiant swift]

guess just that many multipliers in dance

eh sounds simple enough

[warm marlin]

its more sectec

since no charges

the big bomba sectec

[swift tinsel]

blades also doesn't have the layer of flag mastery propping it up, in addition to less cp

[radiant swift]

is it hitting even harder than now? prob with apex talents?

i feel like it already hits like a brick

[shrewd sage]

What do you mean “hold blades to 100s”?

[warm marlin]

you continue your normal 20s dance cycle and just press blades when it overlaps, on a 20s timer that will be at 100s

[warm marlin]

no just blades is weaker for the reason haptics said and sectec has no charge system so if you ever delay it at all you lose casts

big bad

[radiant swift]

oh its even like that? u dont even bother to hold it for a bit?

[radiant swift]

i see

but how boring is that

thats basicaly send everything on cd

as much as possible

[swift tinsel]

kinda

[warm marlin]

you can hold sectec/dance if blades is very very close but it doesnt really happen in sims

[radiant swift]

its still hasted cd on stec right?

well does that even matter when u send it with dance

[warm marlin]

yes and kinda, it can make things weird later in fights. think theres a point at which you can send a raw sectec with no dance but its weird to calculate with mr robot

[warm marlin]

#givesecteccharges, fixes a lot of things

[swift tinsel]

kinda like tww you can feel it out

[radiant swift]

think so

prepatch kinda weird tho but i sometimes if stuff is dying

just send dance +stec and keep blades for next bigger pull

mybe some shenanigans like that

[swift tinsel]

you kinda just have dance all the time

[radiant swift]

the 6s are gone so fast u can like

[plush roost]

I do that on beta frequently

[radiant swift]

send it all the time

i lpike that part

[plush roost]

If a pack is sub 10% i just dance tec and do sbladrs next

[radiant swift]

it still feels like getting dmg out but not committing to much

[warm marlin]

now that cdr is gone you can just rip it a lot in keys

no need to worry about getting it back

[plush roost]

Ye

I rip dance if it lasts only 4 seconds idc

[radiant swift]

but what do you do with active trinkets and pots?

[swift tinsel]

20sec still feels a wee bit short imo

for dance cd

[radiant swift]

i found it so akward to line cds pot and prism for isntance

[warm marlin]

active trinkets?

[radiant swift]

same, still feel like i get alot of value

[plush roost]

The cool part of sub rn is

[radiant swift]

well yeah or did i misssay smth

[plush roost]

U can rip pot without sblades

[swift tinsel]

lol I still have prism/forge/antenna

[plush roost]

If lining it up for lust matters

[swift tinsel]

have first raid since like october tomorrow night

[plush roost]

Lasts 30 seconds, u can land 2 dances inside it anyway

[radiant swift]

does it matter lining it up for lust?

i didnt catch the full convo but apparently theres a super strong pot?

[plush roost]

Yeah kinda

Lust lets u double tec in sblades and dance

So if u have pot ontop

Beeg value

[radiant swift]

oh that

yeah ofc

[plush roost]

Most keys are just lustpot, pot at 5 no matter what, lust 10 pot, pot 15 etc

Unless u really really need to hold it for 1 min to use on a scary pack but most routing accounts for this

[radiant swift]

ud prob have to hold it for a long time to lose out on a usage anyway no?

[plush roost]

Say ur doing maisara

[radiant swift]

well depends i guess

on key lenght

[plush roost]

Your pot comes up at the hexxer 3 bear berserker pull

But sblades

Isnt up for 1minute

[warm marlin]

shite cd anyway

[plush roost]

In 5 minutes time youre lusting, key timer just happens to line up

U rip the pot there so you have it for lust

[radiant swift]

i see

[plush roost]

You dont "lose a cast" of ur pot if u hold once or twice, but if you always hold for sblades youre losing a cast and desyncing lust

[radiant swift]

isnt that sadge how sblades is just w.e

[swift tinsel]

don't worry we're gonna get the shadow dmg % doubled tomorrow

from blades

[plush roost]

Sblades is still gopd

Just not insane anymore

[radiant swift]

what made it insane

[plush roost]

Full cp each cast, flag syncing

[radiant swift]

oh flag

[warm marlin]

my beloved

[radiant swift]

keep forgeting

didnt realy like that

in my burst spec

[swift tinsel]

should have just merged some of the damage boost from flag into blades when flag was removed

not even the mastery just flat %

[plush roost]

They did, they just put it into death perception

[swift cloak]

hey guys im back from a break , and heard stats on sub are screwed , is it possible to play it with stats like it was before prepatch (no haste)

[radiant swift]

are there still the strike at full cp shenanigans?

[plush roost]

Ye but its like .5% gain so w.e

[radiant swift]

i mean a gain is a gain

is it strictly strike?

[frail bone]

for those that played the beta is there alot of dwarf racial uses this time around?
Im boosting a new rogue since I dont want to spend money on the xfer and race change. Debating mogs and NE vs Dwarf.

[swift tinsel]

I would assume, by virute of strike's damage

outside of maybe omegiga aoe

even then

[radiant swift]

so ss doesnt proc it

[warm marlin]

storm does but that button sucks

[swift tinsel]

its any builder that leaves you with 5+

stacks

[warm marlin]

the apex thing is only worth with strike

[radiant swift]

not enough dmg?

wait that cant be

[warm marlin]

yes

[radiant swift]

what

even in aoe?

surely not

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

in st the small loss in total finishers is worth casting way more strikes. storm is so much worse than bp its not remotely worth it

[radiant swift]

thats fucked

[hazy breach]

Its moreso the fact that if you end up with leftover sht stacks in ST, they will be spent on backstab clones

Whereas if you have leftover sht stacks (after dance that is) in aoe, they wont be spent on shuriken clones, as it will generate full cp anyway

So those points are still used on BP

[radiant swift]

think i have to reread the apex talents again

[warm marlin]

yes another aspect

[plush roost]

Sorry boss 8% inc

[keen dome]

He's stealin' all our damage!!

[warm marlin]

hey man im not the one playing that spec in keys

[main wing]

sorry for jumping the party late, but is it worth rolling back into rogue for midnight?

[warm marlin]

u only hurt urself

[radiant swift]

how so? or rather what will generate full cp anyway

[hazy breach]

Tierlists say were bad, so thats a doctored screenshot

[hazy breach]

What

[radiant swift]

strom u mean and therefore will not use sht stacks?

[hazy breach]

If you hit 6 targets with storm

You get full cp

[radiant swift]

yeah tahts what i understood

good

[warm marlin]

btw i think the fact that you can still press strike to proc apex for bp up to like 3 targets means it is mostly that strike is an actual good button

[hazy breach]

And you wont use any sht stacks

[warm marlin]

but certainly that sht aspect also plays a role

[radiant swift]

weird ahh optimazations

how does the calculation for apex1 work when u press a builder at full cp?

it says "per stack expended" but u dont expend any

nvm

disregard

this im guessing all means tracking sht stacks since the finisher expends 5 to do extra damage, so its only worth if u have enough or at any point?

[swift tinsel]

its good to know if you have 5+, but the new spell alert will just tell you

[radiant swift]

oh i see

[swift tinsel]

so you can kinda opt into proactive vs reactive

[radiant swift]

so if it will trigger apex3 i get a notification and can just press a builder before

[swift tinsel]

yep

[radiant swift]

dope

ty yall

[swift tinsel]

the spell alert in question

[radiant swift]

did anything change with how it works with stec? im reading here some calculations do not work properly with it and its not worth apexing a stec?

[radiant swift]

eh its not even that bad

[swift tinsel]

you can use with sectech

even though it doesn't work on the sectech clones

[radiant swift]

so that didnt change