subtlety

[shrewd lantern]

We know how much people loved transmitter.

[plush roost]

How good are u at qte

[swift tinsel]

lemme play Bejeweled for a buff

the more matches the stronger the buff

[shrewd lantern]

I still never got

the toy from transmitter

[grand wyvern]

Yump 3 times

[plush roost]

Bejeweled but its a series of lines on the ground u have to move through to break and get hit by every mechanic

Transmitter step aside

[swift tinsel]

YES CHEF

that would be so on brand but so fun

[uneven scarab]

Sounds like the EB branch

good times

[hazy breach]

Besides, i dont think puzzlebox is gonna be something we'd use a lot now that theyve nerfed the potion

[plush roost]

It also sims like insane but is unplayable

The forbidden fruit

[shrewd lantern]

didnt branch move to you

I felt it was only a pita for dh

playing branch on havoc on the tree boss LMAO

[plush roost]

Damn does the sim reflect this...

[lilac stag]

Outlaw literally outperformed WW week 1 of CN

[plush roost]

I really like pbox

[uneven scarab]

Idk if it moved to you or kinda just moved around

[hazy breach]

Yes

[uneven scarab]

I forgot

[shrewd lantern]

They progressively moved to you

[plush roost]

Nooooo

[shrewd lantern]

But people wanted to "max" the branch buff

by running from orb 3

[plush roost]

Back to my stinky ass fluxating feather...

[hazy breach]

Hopefully they do a tuning pass and buff the crit one

Otherwise we prob stuck with passives

[plush roost]

Ye crit flask is horribly understatted

[hazy breach]

Our 90s aint what they use to be anyway

[lilac stag]

2 min spec Inc

[hazy breach]

It still sims almost the same as the flag, since a lot of the haste is "wasted"

[plush roost]

I think thwyre both bad

[hazy breach]

Ye

In comparison to prism or araz everything seems bad

[plush roost]

March first boss feather ans alnseeker just seem to be the play

[hazy breach]

[ivory obsidian]

? No one was beating me in prog

Clueless

[hazy breach]

Have you tried any of the whacky embellishments?

[plush roost]

I think puzzle box still decent tho may have a niche

[lilac stag]

Week 1

[plush roost]

Fishhooks, the 2 rings, arcano thread mostly

[ivory obsidian]

75%tile

Kek

[plush roost]

Anything to take note of?

[lilac stag]

Sorry you couldn’t play outlaw at a higher %

[plush roost]

I cant get a read on fishhooks cause they dont show up on logs

[ivory obsidian]

lol

[lucid jackal]

OUTLAW

Can u believe ppl told me sub was better?? LOLOL

Couldn't be me

[chrome palm]

Have they done trinket tuning yet?

[hazy breach]

Was more curious about the random ass items, like the set

A lot of them arent implemented in sims

[shrewd lantern]

CN probably one of the few actual outlaw tiers

[plush roost]

Mm no tbh i havent actually taken a good look at most

I probably should tho, i just think a turbo embellishment and trinket pass will come soon

[hazy breach]

Presumably if they were OP you wouldve heard of them though

[plush roost]

Ye for sure

[hazy breach]

Ye that was what i was thinking all of tww beta too

[lilac stag]

Outlaw was cracked, and then assa got fixed

[hazy breach]

[plush roost]

Hehe i do think that the arcano thread lining

Has big potential

Is a lot of stats

And it spreads out to your group

[hazy breach]

How much is it

[plush roost]

Tooltip says 44 and 11 to group

Mainstat

[hazy breach]

That seems like a lot indeed

[plush roost]

It does

Its a whole food buff

[hazy breach]

Oh wait its not always up

[plush roost]

And u can have 2 right so thats also kinda nuts

[hazy breach]

I thought it was like the old linings above 80% or whatever

[plush roost]

Idk the proc rate i gotta look

[uneven scarab]

SL outlaw was a fucking demon

Idk how people forget

[hazy breach]

First craft pretty much has to be a dagger anyway, so i could probably just recommend fishhook

[lilac stag]

people have CRS disease (can’t remember shit)

[flint parrot]

fishhook bugged currently it does 0 dam

[lilac stag]

I’m sure you mean 1H as first craft. Outlaw tier.

[sullen hare]

You didn't have the macro on your stealth bar meme . jpg

[signal moth]

nah it changes but the icon doesnt change

so its greyed out

pretty dumb lol

[sullen hare]

Oh. Even with #showtooltip?

[signal moth]

yh lol

[hazy breach]

Unluck

[uneven scarab]

It went from doing sus damage to 0

Goated

[lilac stag]

It got that 8% sub nerf mojo

[fleet acorn]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[bright sundial]

Question why does ds like dance+Storm instead of dance+ST?

[lilac stag]

Answer: don’t play DS
DS not worried about flawless stacks

[bright sundial]

Damn so every season a tricky season

[lilac stag]

If there’s a god we’re never touching DS unless it’s seriously reworked for gameplay

[fallow glade]

there's a simple way to never touch DS again. 👉 grab the pistol spec

[bright sundial]

Are we never playing ds cause of gameplay issues or tuning issues?

[hazy breach]

Both

[bright sundial]

Sadge deathstalker wish it got cool talents wasted name

Wait but I've just noticed since it took them 3 season to fix s1 bugs for ds means we won't get a rework til after last titan when there gone

[hazy breach]

They havent really fix s1 bugs

[bright sundial]

Lmao

[hazy breach]

Unless you count making one of the bugs an intended effect

That technically removes a bug ig

[bright sundial]

Ig it doesn't help that we never play it so what's the point in fixing it?

The bugs i mean not the reworking part

[astral axle]

[quick burrow]

If deathstalkers mark was attached to the player instead of the mob everything would be so much better

[vale pine]

absolutely

[dry plank]

It took a while for them to attach FW to player may be after last titan they would do it

Don’t expect much rogue changes for next 1.5 years

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[light imp]

I havn't been active for quite a long time, someone please tell me that sub rogues seriously havn't been reduced to what very lightly boils down to a Shadow strike/backstab > Evicerate 2 button rotation

[tulip light]

yes

[wraith zealot]

somethimes u prees 3 or 4 for cd 🙂

[wary flower]

Sub has kinda been like that for a while IMO. It's just that the two buttons were macros of stuff that needed to all be pressed together anyway.

[wraith zealot]

yep

now we dont have debuffs for track really

[jaunty heath]

having fun levelling as sub, seems bursty. Been open world questing

I kind of just put talents everywhere, no idea if it's optimal

[wary flower]

Hard to go wrong when leveling, honestly. Just about everything works.

[swift tinsel]

scary thing is sub isn't the most simplified spec of the bunch too lol

arcane doesn't even cast missiles anymore just barrage blast and orbs lol

[bleak night]

tbf thats more a tuning issue than an intentional simplification

[jaunty heath]

yeah see that is the concern, playing a mish mash way, and then having to relearn at 80

[vale pine]

classic wow, comming to retail

[swift tinsel]

I won't rest until they're Frostbolt bots

(they're icelance bots currently so its close)

[bleak night]

ye thats not new for frost though

every expac it goes through an icelance phase

they cant help it

[swift tinsel]

ye that's how tww s1 was in really bad fashion

right now you just get so many shatter stacks it feels like you can't spend them fast enough

[obtuse relic]

I won’t lie this is my first time playing sub and I really enjoy it lol

[wary flower]

I don't mind simple if its engaging. Plus if you want new players it just can't get exponentially more complex.
I'll main sub till I die cuz I like the mechs more than other classes.

[swift tinsel]

its pretty fun, just less cluttered than it was in tww

[obtuse relic]

This

[swift tinsel]

as long as trickster doesn't get blown up I'll be happy

[obtuse relic]

There still should be some complex hard specs tho I feel

But more simpler specs

[wary flower]

I really want DS to be good. Maybe one day

[swift tinsel]

I don't mind it being easy to pick up, as long as there's some flair coming from tier sets or talent tweaks

[obtuse relic]

As a new plAyer learning some of the harder specs and learning weak auras and all the shit took so much time and almost made me quit gettin keybinds right etc lol

I came to tww and felt like I was gonna be dog ass at the game but I spent a bunch of hours learning all the new stuff now and I’d say I’m above average

But the new player experience was dreadful lol

I didn’t even know about the new tier set changes

[swift tinsel]

ye new player experience is pretty trash lol

[obtuse relic]

Being able to to turn armor into tier lol I started end of df and they l boosted me up and was like holy hell it’s so different how do I get tier

My mind was blown I could just change armor into tier lol

[wary flower]

I wish the new player experience included the old class trainers. And you could opt in to a class dojo like scenario before going into the story aspect. Feels like that would help a lot of new players.

[bleak night]

catalyst was a huge w

might be the single best thing to come from shadowlands

[obtuse relic]

It really was

Especially for people who don’t mythic raid lol

[eager latch]

LMAO

more sub nerfs

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/us/class-tuning-incoming-february-17-2251315

[short radish]

xaxaxaxa

[eager latch]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOO

were we overperforming chat?

[astral axle]

unseenblade damage nerf?

[hazy breach]

Subs ST has been middling while the aoe has been fairly strong (on beta that is)

I wouldve liked to see an eviscerate buff or something to up the ST a little bit, but aoe nerf is mostly fine

[spice matrix]

pack it up boys, see you in the assassination channel

[bitter halo]

Guys are we running DS or Trickster for ST?

[hazy breach]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923898501529600/1472019039789252629/image.png?ex=69910c0f&is=698fba8f&hm=bba10de931a2f137fa52ae62f0299437d4ba7878997ffc30f7b0a79e06489b76&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=502&height=178
Upcoming tuning. Should be roughly a ~3% AoE nerf for trickster. Fwiw a lot of other classes also saw nerfs, many much more severe than this.

[spice matrix]

[glad cosmos]

Why is rogue getting fucked lately, was it really that busted on beta?

[astral axle]

Im just confused why the nerf to unseen blade haha

[hazy breach]

296 not a very nice and round number, 280 better

Is my best guess

[astral axle]

This is why you're the best eleem

[eager latch]

it really was not

it was a strong A tier spec

but plenty of other specs that were outperforming it by a good margin

[hazy breach]

If we get compensatory ST buffs then it would be absolutely fine

[short radish]

blizzard feeding my conspiracy theory that sub rogue isn't allowed to ever outperform in anything

[hazy breach]

Spec is very AoE skewed

[short radish]

we eating well today (we're not)

[eager latch]

it's a pad spec

0 prio

you do dogshit damage in 2 target

and very little utility

what's the niche again????

i'm just malding man

[astral axle]

the only spec which has the right to be real mad

is arms

that dogshit spec took more nerfs

[bleak night]

ww took a 10% aura nerf

[hazy breach]

I mean its not like were doing literally 0 prio, its just not higher than pure ST

[bleak night]

and i dont really know why

lmfao

[astral axle]

oop

[chrome palm]

To be fair this nerf makes sense

[eager latch]

huh

[chrome palm]

Mage and warlock were giga op so they kinda had to nerf rogue again

[bleak night]

yeah

i agree

[hoary sun]

Blizz better stop nerfing my spec on god

[chrome palm]

This feels like tww s2 again or something just getting nerfed every week before launch

[hazy breach]

I mean they nerfed arcane and demo heavily too

[torn tide]

NOOO WHY A NERF

[bleak night]

and frost

[onyx flame]

IF

[hazy breach]

I mean its still alright

[eager latch]

the arms nerfs are the craziest part ngl

[hazy breach]

If sub was like 5% behind, other specs get nerfed by 10% but sub only gets 3% were still coming out relatively ahead

[astral axle]

harsh but fair

[eager latch]

they were already legit so bad in keys

and arms caught more strays

what data are they even using?

[cursive vapor]

rejected.

[bleak night]

first thing i see going over to the warrior discord

[torn tide]

is it really a very bad nerf for trickster tho

[chrome palm]

Coup cleaves quite a bit less now

So your aoe burst gets hit more than anything

[dull sierra]

Sorry if I have a bad understanding, but is this just for prepatch or does it affect how sub will ship for midnight release

[hazy breach]

It will be applied to the prepatch, but its intended for the midnight release

[dull sierra]

Ahh okay got it

[torn tide]

man thays depressing

well atleast arms,mage and warlock got fucked too

[hazy breach]

#assassination message

From the guy thats played probably the most sub out of anybody on the beta

[torn tide]

sounds about right

the bigman charrend

[warm depot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torn tide]

its okay i still believe in apex talents saving sub

[astral axle]

yeah i dont want my sadness for arms over look the fact the ceiling was lowered big with the lock mage nerf

[torn tide]

that mage nerf looks so sad tho

but deserved, frost is nuts

if i was a mage main and i read that shit id consider changing classes

[bleak night]

[hazy breach]

Its enormous nerfs for these classes btw

We mightve caught a -3.5%

But theyre tanking like -12%

Arcane, frost and demo

[torn tide]

oych

[astral axle]

I love it

No despair

[cursive hamlet]

they were op so its warranted they would receive massive nerfs

[bleak night]

[torn tide]

yea

[astral axle]

Eat the rich

[bleak night]

yoink

[chrome palm]

No aug nerf either. Idk if they are super strong but I’m seeing them in a lot of keys

[hazy breach]

Like i looked at a log from charrend with a demo lock and he would do 15% less damage with these nerfs

[bleak night]

wouldnt it be garfunism not garfumism

[chrome palm]

Maybe just because mage and lock were so insane

[hazy breach]

Im sure there will be optimizations to make it less severe, like playing the other hero talent or something

But still

[astral axle]

fuck

[torn tide]

how do yall calculate these numbers btw? im curious

[hazy breach]

If its complicated you implement it into simc

Otherwise you just look at logs

[torn tide]

oh cool

[hazy breach]

And do napkin math

Like if nimble is 25% of your damage and its nerfed by 20%, you would lose 25x0.2=5%

[astral axle]

:O

[hazy breach]

But its closer to 20%, and the nerf is 13% not 20%, just picked those numbers because its easier numbers for an example

[plush roost]

Erm

The agenda is being pushed?

[hazy breach]

Agenda?

Whos agenda we talking about

[plush roost]

Mine

[torn tide]

ty

[plush roost]

Nerf sub, buff assa agenda

[torn tide]

charrend please save sub

wait what

[plush roost]

All accorsing to keikaku

[hazy breach]

#assassination message
This agenda came through

[plush roost]

#subtlety message

[maiden oar]

buff outlaw agenda...?

[plush roost]

I predicted this 6 days ago

[hazy breach]

Tbf these assa buffs seem miniscule

[astral axle]

keikaku isn't that when someone is in the middle and a bunch of dudes are standing around in a circle and...

[plush roost]

I disagree tbh

[hazy breach]

But might be enough with all the sub nerfs

[plush roost]

Rupture is already ur number 1 boss and trash dps

5% is gud

Caustic buff is good

Ive been an avulsion believer for months now

[torn tide]

do u think sub is gonna get buffed back up before midnight?

[plush roost]

Idk maybe i think these nerfs are fine

Beats an 8% nerf

[tepid bison]

is the <ability> is X% of damage from the output of the sims as a baseline?

[hazy breach]

I dont think sub is gonna get any aoe buffs

[plush roost]

Ye i think they buff strike and evis

Maybe backstab

If they decide to buff sub

[hazy breach]

Evis probably sufficient, but well see

[hazy breach]

Depends

[torn tide]

ah yikes sucks to be me, i main mythic+

[plush roost]

If they buff st its good for m+

Subs problem on beta rn is everything is dead and your prio target has 40% hp

[torn tide]

okay wtf

[plush roost]

Thats why im striking and throwing evis in my cds even if its bad for aoe

[torn tide]

ye ofc but aoe is nice too

[sour horizon]

ayo wtf is this assassination buffs and sub nerfs??

[swift tinsel]

nerfmaxxing

[sour horizon]

I dont wanna play assassination maaan

[swift tinsel]

then don't

[plush roost]

Im almost 100% sure sub is still the best of all 3 rogue specs in keys

And will have a niche in raid still

[formal helm]

if you're not in a rwf guild or top 100 you can really play w/e you want

whenever.

just play what you enjoy

that's it

[grand wyvern]

true, but if you have no preference might as well play what is stronger

[swift tinsel]

saying they don't wanna play assassination sounds like they have a preference

[sour horizon]

yeah its a chill guild, theres 0 pressure, but when theres a wipe at low % its always in back of mind xD

[formal helm]

ye but this guy is saying he doesn't want to play assa

you could also just perform worse on a better spec

[swift tinsel]

^

[formal helm]

that's always a thing too

so it's really just a matter of what you enjoy more

[sour horizon]

I can do either at a decent level, cept outlaw havent touched it so ill be bad

[formal helm]

then play what you want 🙂

[plush roost]

Jsyk all know doing napkin math of an 18 i did last night, these nerfs equate to about 1.9m total key damage

Out of...

274m

Its fine

[formal helm]

it's jover.

it's so jover.

[sour horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/yamcha-yamcha-death-pose-yamcha-dead-yamcha-on-the-ground-yamcha-sleeping-gif-15816799

[long sun]

These nerfs lowk random

[swift tinsel]

ye we're fine big picture

[astral axle]

but bro i needed that 1.9 !!!

[mental saddle]

charrend how's rogue specs on raid ? have u tested em ?

[hazy breach]

Just trying to make trickster and deathstalker closer ig

[astral axle]

I was gonna do something with it

[hazy breach]

But i do think it was weird that coup was basically aoe during blades

[swift tinsel]

plus I just venmo'd realz with a note asking for st buffs

so we're good

[plush roost]

I padded nexus king idk im busy on raid test hrs

[formal helm]

[sour horizon]

what was the old roguecraft quote about never using cds in pvp so you can kill or somethingf xD

[hazy breach]

Like now nimble is 82% during blades instead of 95%

Its still an obscenely high cleave number imo

[torn tide]

oh thats not so bad if its out of that

[formal helm]

love cleave

btw how is energy regen

[hazy breach]

Infinite during dance

Meh outside, but who cares

[formal helm]

so same old kinda

have to get some haste

but can't be arsed to optimise stats now

I'll do it in the season

[swift tinsel]

I just swapped some gems and a couple slots and got to 35% without much trouble

but ye it doesn't really matter since we level in a couple weeks and replace it all

[formal helm]

yeah

that's why I can't be arsed

[swift tinsel]

probs gonna level as outlaw anyways

[torn tide]

lmfao yea it'll all be gone

[swift tinsel]

now that I don't have to worry about crackshot resetting shit

[formal helm]

nah, can't be seen switching to that unholy spec

[torn tide]

is that easier for quests??

[swift tinsel]

its a vibe

[astral axle]

outlaw fun

[sour horizon]

sub leveling is kinda rough

[formal helm]

tried a few mins of assa on dummies

[swift tinsel]

its steadier damage so you don't feel as anemic outside dance for questing

[astral axle]

sub fun

[formal helm]

that seems kinda fun now

[swift tinsel]

with downtime tho its not bad

[hazy breach]

Shouldnt be now

[swift tinsel]

its all whatever

[hazy breach]

You get more than 2x the dances you would get before

[swift tinsel]

ye I just want the change of pace

[plush roost]

Sub leveling sh9uld be thanos now lowkey

Pull a ton every 20 seconds

[swift tinsel]

if its kill quests yea

[sour horizon]

oh thats good then

[astral axle]

assa has whispyr

[sour horizon]

i usually swap when leveling then swap back

[swift tinsel]

and you get to use strike teleport for more mobility as well

[formal helm]

at the end of the day it's leveling. who cares.

[hazy breach]

Like before dance had ~45s or so because you dont have enough uptime to farm cdr

Now dance is always 20s

[formal helm]

oh that is true

[swift tinsel]

I've just been Mafic'ing and playing outlaw open-world and chillin

[torn tide]

its nice

[formal helm]

still feeling weird bc we're missing buttons tho

[swift tinsel]

eh I don't miss them tbh

[formal helm]

my keybinds for symbols and rupture are still empty

[swift tinsel]

and will miss them even less while questing/leveling

[formal helm]

idk what to put there

[torn tide]

it was so much more complicated

[formal helm]

yeah

oh well

[swift tinsel]

blades took over my symbols bind and rupture is now storm+dance

[plush roost]

I just dont have my w key bound anymore

[formal helm]

storm + dance huh

[plush roost]

Xd

[formal helm]

mby I steal that

[plush roost]

It was rupture

💔

[swift tinsel]

so if I wanna natty Dance+Blades+Sectech its really easy to hit all at once as Q+3+R

[formal helm]

why tf was w a rupture bind?

[plush roost]

Why not?

[formal helm]

fair enough.

[swift tinsel]

rupture was 5, still is for sin

[formal helm]

think I have smth bound on ž

[astral axle]

Becase its right there in the name

[plush roost]

Its a button u press frequently in your rotation so it takes a core rotation space on my keyboard

[astral axle]

wupture

[formal helm]

can't even recall waht

[swift tinsel]

if you mouse-move then W is a prime bind tbh

[torn tide]

im still laughing at the arms warrior gravestone picture

[astral axle]

[swift tinsel]

like I auto-run mostly instead of W

[plush roost]

Or if u have S as your forwadd key

[swift tinsel]

I just haven't bound it tho

that too yea

[formal helm]

that is true

and I mostly do that

[swift tinsel]

just have ASD as strafe walk strafe

[torn tide]

did u move with ur arrow keys by any chance

[formal helm]

but still would feel weird to have wasd binds

[swift tinsel]

like I have Q and E bound for stuff

[formal helm]

yeah same

[plush roost]

Nah ASD, mouse to turn camera

Qwerty123456+shift/ctrl varients

[formal helm]

also it feels so weird playing now

[swift tinsel]

tho having S for tanking is useful

[formal helm]

since I upgraded pc

[swift tinsel]

backpedal moving

etc

[plush roost]

X

Probelm solved

[formal helm]

I'm used to fucking lagging and fps drops

[swift tinsel]

No that's Teabag bind

[astral axle]

exactly

[torn tide]

ahh cool

[astral axle]

how can i sit on your face without x bound

[formal helm]

?

[plush roost]

Fun fact on theatre i actually typeracer /sit during pvp so i can get auto crit on repeat

[torn tide]

same lmao and my monitors went from 60hz to 200hz, it feels like im high everytime im playing

[swift tinsel]

using X feels very odd to me tho for movement

[torn tide]

the difference is insane

[swift tinsel]

lmao ye I just turn around and spam X

[formal helm]

I'm only on 60hz one but getting a 2nd one soon

[plush roost]

I type /sit LOL

[swift tinsel]

you monster hahaha

[formal helm]

and I went from a 15'' laptop to a 24'' screen

[plush roost]

High apm gameplay

[formal helm]

so it's giga upgrade3

[swift tinsel]

10fastfingers.com gogo

[formal helm]

still feels giga weird

[plush roost]

I felt assa lacked apm in s2 so i made apm

[swift tinsel]

ye going up past 144hz is lifechanging

[plush roost]

/sit /sit /sit /sit

[formal helm]

could be a play later on haptics

[swift tinsel]

hey whatever works lol

[formal helm]

but for now I'm getting a 60hz one soon-ish from a friends company

for like 40€

which is basically free

[torn tide]

very big change

[swift tinsel]

I went from 60 to 75 and now at 180hz and the jump to 180 was insane

[formal helm]

I don't get what changes tho, I'm stupid in this sense

[swift tinsel]

the framerate

[formal helm]

yeah?

[swift tinsel]

well, potential framerate

[formal helm]

so on 60hz it's basically that there's no change after 60 fps right?

[bitter halo]

!guide

[swift tinsel]

bc your monitor can only refresh so fast

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[formal helm]

ah okay

[bitter halo]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[formal helm]

so I guess it becomes even more fluid

[swift tinsel]

essentially, so the higher your hz/refresh rate the more frames your monitor can show

[astral axle]

[formal helm]

yeah

[swift tinsel]

yeah it reallllllly smooths out the output

[formal helm]

well I went from 10 fps to 60 fps now

life changing

[swift tinsel]

lmao yea thats a nice upgrade

[formal helm]

well 60 bc I've capped it

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/unc-still-got-it-gif-6384030002593541773

[formal helm]

idk how much it goes to tho

can't be arsed trying it when there's no change anyway either

[swift tinsel]

if its 60hz then that's the effective cap

[astral axle]

this owns brooo

[formal helm]

yeah

should cap on league too

league was also a game changer

[plush roost]

My m+ team legit just spammed that gif when it was time to play for like 4 months

So fucking good

[formal helm]

I just hate that midnight comes out

just as my semester starts

ffs

why couldn't it start a bit earlier

🙁

[barren plume]

dwarf best rogue race for alliance? or is it Nelf with the shadowmeld

[bleak night]

depends on if you need stoneform or meld more that season

but dwarf is ugly

and nelf is not

so

ez choice

[sour horizon]

and flips!

[tulip light]

just saw the pin about upcoming tuning. im not even mad idc anymore but can anyone explain what data this is based on?

it makes absolute 0 sense how are the coming up with those decisions

[hazy breach]

Beta

[lucid jackal]

What's confusing about the changes exactly?

[tulip light]

our output gets reduced while we are not even close to an outlier / top performer

[hazy breach]

We are close to the top though

And they nerfed the top by like 15%

[tulip light]

regarding raid or m+ ?

[bright sundial]

Lmao more nerfs and mage sits pretty every tier

[hazy breach]

m+

As we only aoe nerfs

[hazy breach]

Ye except arcane tanked a like 20% nerf, theyll surely come up with a new build so its less than that, but its absolutely an enormous nerf

And frost also got huge nerfs

[lucid jackal]

I don't think u really understood how good the spec was

Lol

[tulip light]

since i havent played beta i might not - but feel free to explain

[shell willow]

Looking forward to blasting

[lucid jackal]

There's not much to explain exactly haha

Sub was just quite powerful

[tulip light]

ok then i might just be confuse bc not a single review / stream shows it

[lucid jackal]

It was worse than Frost and arcane but Frost and arcane got as eleem said, like a 15-20% Nerf

[lucid jackal]

Rogue tends to fly under the radar for a lot of these YouTube clickbait videos about tier lists and rankings and such

[tulip light]

im more than happy to find out about all that stuff once the raid opens, we get more tuning etc so im happy about all that

[lucid jackal]

And it's also the whole mentality of "if your not first your last" people have where if you aren't one of the 5 thanos God tier dps Ur dogshit

Like sub was very much low s or a tier for these types of tier lists for key damage

[tulip light]

for raid i dont bother being top or bottom but m+ is just god awful

[lucid jackal]

So getting. 3% Nerf while the big dps specs are getting a 20% Nerf puts us in a good spot

[tulip light]

that sound sweet

[brisk onyx]

[torn tide]

"if u cant go up, wait for higher ups to fall"

[torn tide]

is warlock the 20% nerf?

[lucid jackal]

No clue

[brisk onyx]

[vagrant finch]

One more tuning pass and I can finally check out the assa channel. How are they in there? Are they as cool as us?

[brisk onyx]

Whatever, will this narrow the gap in aoe between DS and Trickster?

[hazy breach]

Yes, tricksters probably only like 15% ahead now

[tribal blade]

arms warr in my guild in shambles rn

he's pretty angry

[summer lynx]

Is fuus list updated with all the changes?

[hazy breach]

It's also 3% in aoe, since a key actually has a bunch of st in practice the number is gonna be quite bit lower

[sour horizon]

so he can go fury!

[tribal blade]

his details nickname for the past month has been "i want to arms"

[sour horizon]

xD

well hes got the rage for fury

Warr is only class I havent played

[tribal blade]

it's fun!

a lot of dopamine with leap>charge

[sour horizon]

well not true, I had a undead in Cata I tanked with coz ravage or devastate, one of em did the flippy attack on fem UD

then I deleted years ago

[lucid jackal]

Yeah exactly

[karmic harbor]

guys is it true, rogue is dead?

🤤

[sour horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[bleak night]

yeah probably

[sour horizon]

thats why we were all undead in OG Vanilla

[lilac stag]

15 now?

Something else change

nn. Just saw the aoe / cleave.

Was thinking ST

[serene notch]

look whoever is making blizzard think we need nerfs needs to stop -_-

[lucid jackal]

2% Nerf just reroll

(ignore the fact that mage got a 15-20% Nerf)

Just roll arcane

[serene notch]

lol

[summer lynx]

Why does it always seem like if sub is ahead of sin sub gets nerfed till assassination is ahead of it? do the devs just want people to play sin more lol?

[serene notch]

so funny you said that watch zorthas RN saying its still not enough atm

[sour horizon]

seeing sub doing well then nerfed before season start or just after

same old same old

[plush roost]

Sub was very good

[serene notch]

i was just talking some shit, really its still beta so whatever. lets see the real stats start rolling in a few weeks in.

[serene notch]

ay you need to stop bro you why were getting nerfed

you 100 parse needs to be LESS then a green parse arcance mage hello?

[lucid jackal]

You know except all the seasons where sub stayed op

[plush roost]

True and real

[sour horizon]

im just traumatised by tww s2

[torn tide]

just believe in the apex

[chrome palm]

Is key parse accurate in beta

[plush roost]

No

Untimed or unfinished keys get a parse and finished keys dont XD

Parse in beta fske anyway

[south pelican]

Are the nerfs that just came out bad for sub? Seems small

[chrome palm]

Yeah I’m just wondering because you’re playing at probably about the limit of what sub can do, but I don’t know if the same can be said of that mage

How was your priory damage against arcane?

[sour horizon]

most of us just memeing

[south pelican]

Ye seems kinda small I suppose

[plush roost]

My napkin math said we lost 1.9m damage out of 274m damage

In a key i did

But i probably misses something

[plush roost]

Erm..

Were a yellow boomkin buddy

All aoe

[chrome palm]

Again? gg

[bright sundial]

Wtf 31 parse matches you that's crazy

[graceful osprey]

How’s the new pit of saron revamp? Fun dungeon or going to be a slog?

[plush roost]

Fun, mass aoe key

Bosses are insane

(As in gl living on high keys)

[sour horizon]

hows the ice falling corridor

[plush roost]

Is fine, glacieth nice little 100% crit window for 15 seconds

[sour horizon]

oh nice!

[torn tide]

lmfao if healer isnt good then its gg?

[torn tide]

3.5% nerf in aoe, not so bad compared to mage nerfs

[light imp]

Simple but engaging to me was back around the Cata era. pooling energy for Dances, maintaining upkeep on 2 finishers and filling with eviscerates. it was simple by concept but had a strong risk/reward value to it

[tribal blade]

that's looking into details moment to see the healer healed you the least and let you die

and then everyone was like "why are you dying"

[golden hare]

What’s the state of sub atm in both pre patch and beta? Competitive or is it grim

[chrome palm]

Not worth logging onto sub for prepatch

The spec is fine or even good in beta

[narrow shadow]

Rogue is useless in prepatch in general

Hope it will be okay in midnight

I BELIEVE

[brisk onyx]

nobody care about prepatch, and actually, this prepatch was particularly boring

[kind edge]

this prepatch was about to config the new UI. thats it.

[keen dome]

Actually it's about planning your new idle spot in the expansion.

[rain stratus]

You guys reckon Sub will be the best solo leveling spec come midnight?

[keen dome]

Sure

[sour horizon]

this prepatch was for gearing farming alts and picking what alts to play xD

[tribal blade]

i actually kinda don't blame blizz for the prepatch event being horrendously bad

because they have such a massive amount on their plate for midnight

[brisk onyx]

true

[keen dome]

Ye, same. I would like more (like a free bag)

but it's w/e.

It's functional!

[tribal blade]

yeah they really did the bare minimum with it

feels like they put like 1 person on it

who had like half a day to do it

[celest iron]

I hate the new sub in keys that is all I have to say. My BM hunter requires more brain power. I am so sad

[sour horizon]

what?

bm is even more braindead then ever

[stone light]

Subtlety

Trickster: Nimble Flurry effect reduced to 65% of skill damage (was 75%)
Trickster: Clever Combatant crit chance for Shuriken Storm reduced to 15% (was 20%)

how?

[fallow nimbus]

The vendor doesn't even have trinkets

[tribal blade]

you should see some of the nerfs other specs got

we got basically nothing

[keen dome]

where big bag

[cerulean beacon]

Can’t wait for this expac lmao

[keen dome]

lol

[velvet jay]

I want to track Coup de Grace with the cooldown manager. But I have the feeling it's bugged. My Icon doesn't change from Escelating Blade to Coup de Grace when it's up. It only changes to Coup de Grace after I actually used the ability and then it changes to escelating blades when I get a stack again. Does anyone also have this problem or might it be my additional cooldown manager addons?

[brisk onyx]

That's how it works; you can only "see" 4 stacks of EB, and then you know that coup can be used now

[blazing dawn]

If you track Evis in your cooldown manager the icon will change to Coup after you get 4 stacks of EB, so either you track EB stacks^ or you track when your Evis icon changes to Coup icon.

[tribal blade]

confused because i can track coup specifically on tracked buffs

wait let me check, i haven't actually looked yet

mm nvm

yeah it's stupid

[lethal pasture]

hey new to rogue here, making some macros. Do you always want to Shuriken storm as you shadow dance?

[finite crow]

nah

[tribal blade]

only at low CP if you're playing DS

if you're playing trickster you want to go into dance with high CP and insta sectec

[lethal pasture]

hmm do you ever shuriken then in ST? as trickster

[hazy breach]

No, #subtlety-faq

[lethal pasture]

i know its not in the recommended macros, is it bad having a macro combining SB/SD/ST?

[finite crow]

should be fine you want to use st in dance anyway

[surreal willow]

It's been three weeks since I started playing wow, but I feel like I can't seem to get my DPS right, am I missing something big?

[short radish]

you've started playing at the worst time

when balance doesnt exist because it's prepatch

wait a few more weeks then come back when its a whole new game

[surreal willow]

when the new patch comes will the difference between characters still be this big

arcane mage and warlock meta DPS scored 10 points, while the sub rogue received 7.5 points thats not a 25% dpsdifference is it

[short radish]

who knows probably

balance can come at any time

when you least expect it

[lilac stag]

What the fuck is this shit sheet?

[hazy breach]

What the hell is that sheet lmao

[short radish]

idk some dude makes it every tier

totally 0 bias

[lilac stag]

good lord it’s too early for this

[short radish]

and the fact that rogue is 2.5 and not 0.5

for utility

shows how much he knows about rogue

[lilac stag]

Go back to TBC everyone.

Oh wait they fixed armor values

[surreal willow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwBsr1QRlOI

[lilac stag]

how to chose your main in 1 easy step.

Step 1: Find something you have fun on.

[hazy breach]

All rogue specs have the same survivability despite sub having effectively 10% more hp and taking 10% less damage than the others is interesting

[warm marlin]

what did mm do to pekto for him to give it a 0 for fun

[lilac stag]

Lost to SV

[hazy breach]

Clearly feral is tankier than sub

[lilac stag]

too bad muachlebrah doesn’t have a sheet. We could compare and contrast.

[alpine wraith]

the ancient magics

[slate marlin]

why is arms a 6.5 in st

[lilac stag]

Spreadsheet gaming?
Spreadsheet Main Gaming?

[slate marlin]

no a 7 in st

wtf

arms dealing less than tanks

[warm marlin]

sub also being in the bottom third prio from what i can tell is very interesting

i wonder if this has something to do with him playing deathstalker without using dn

and not having a hero tree

[lilac stag]

and only pressing 2 buttons

[tribal blade]

this is the most feelycraft breakdown i've ever seen

[slate marlin]

aug getting an 8 and a 9 respectively

[azure thicket]

spread doesn't quantify what the gearing situation iss

[warm marlin]

it's actually tied for 4th worst prio in the game in that sheet

insane

[azure thicket]

reeeeee

[lilac stag]

at least our tier list in here is supported by science and clearly defined organization

[slate marlin]

while being a spec that relies on other specs for its dmg

[warm marlin]

my goat charrend would disagree

[slate marlin]

ive seen how he deals with swirlies

[warm marlin]

[keen dome]

And purple.

[slate marlin]

we should do a tierlist tierlist

with fuu on top ofc

[dusty quartz]

Hey... just levelling my first rogue for a long time. As sub atm. My cheap shot opener is often immediately triggering a shadowstrike straight afterwards, but im 100% sure im not pressing shadowstrike. Is that... normal? I cant see it mentioned anywhere

[brisk onyx]

talent

[dusty quartz]

ah ok ty, ill have another look through

[slate marlin]

pretty sure is this one

[dusty quartz]

Got it - thanks! Deffo that one

It crits insanely hard for 50%.. pretty good

[slate marlin]

yeah its a way to use the stuns without losing too much finisher dmg or a shadowstrike dmg

[dusty quartz]

I was planning on going assassination eventually but im having too much fun as sub

[slate marlin]

just play what you enjoy

try stuff at max level tho, stuff changes from leveling

[azure thicket]

also when everyone is in m0 gear it looks like

we're gonna be in that baseline other classes are tuned against

[dusty quartz]

I havent played Rogue since TBC, complexity put me off tbh, now they are "pruned" im giving it another go

[lilac stag]

be careful. The fun police in here will ticket you. 🚔

[dusty quartz]

xD

[lilac stag]

glad you’re enjoying it. much nice than seeing the typical 8 haven’t played tour in 4 years this is shit reaction we tend to attract.

[dusty quartz]

Ton of fun levelling so far but only at 60 so we'll see at max level

[hazy breach]

They're bugged and do way more damage than they're supposed to

In prepatch,but not on the beta

[dusty quartz]

Thought so, seems to hit like a truck

[lilac stag]

if you’re having fun while leveling a rogue, you def belong here. Something ain’t right with you.

[dusty quartz]

Haha.. yeah i am tbh. reminds me a lot of classic/TBC so probably a bit of nostalgia too

[lilac stag]

We maintain our crown of worst leveling experience in wow to this day.

[surreal willow]

any other buff I should be tracking that I don't know about? or all these enough

[lilac stag]

first goto talents and change deathstalker to trickster.

[surreal willow]

actually I was trickster, but after seen this

I went back to DS which I enjoy more

[slate marlin]

well its more purple

[surreal willow]

https://tenor.com/view/assassin-creed-ezio-ezio-auditore-hoodie-gif-13267544

[vale pine]

happy valentines day everyone

[vale pine]

both are likely still close

[surreal willow]

also, I can't figure out when Eviscrate will turn into Coup de Grace in Trickster

[lilac stag]

Look at your buffs to track

[surreal willow]

and should I wait for Shadow Dance to hit it?

[vale pine]

4 stacks of unseen blades

[lilac stag]

4 stacks of unseen blades will change evis to coup

[lilac stag]

#subtlety-faq if you haven’t.

We focus on having Sectech for

[surreal willow]

so should the starting rotation be like this?
stealth>shurikenstorm>eviscerate>vanish>shurikenstorm>Macro(SB>SD>temppot>netherprism>secrettech)

[slate marlin]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

No

[lilac stag]

Strike from stealth

Storm is used in dance as first builder, but you want full CP going into dance with trickster so you dance + Sectech

[tribal blade]

but strike only generates 2 cp now

useless button

i have to say this is the first time in a long time where it feels like there's a good balance between how our builders gen CP and deal damage

[surreal willow]

I actually said this for M+. I become invisible while pulling tank mobs, gain attack speed from Eviscerate, become invisible again with Vanish, use SS to both deal damage to the entire area and max out my CP, and then press the macro after all the mobs are gathered.

[tribal blade]

you don't need to cast vanish there

you can save it for defensive value

people tend to start combat in keys with strike from stealth because it ports you and you enter combat faster

but if you're following your tank in melee i don't see why not pressing storm from stealth

either way it's damage you're doing outside dance so it's not nearly as important as what you're doing in cds

[surreal willow]

you're right I was just thinking about the maximum damage I could deal before the burst so I was using SS to hit all the mobs in the area

I think it will deal more damage than Shadow Strike hitting with Shuriken Storm

is there something here that I don't know?

if there are around 8 mobs (or more) in the area, doesn't Shuriken Storm deal more damage than Shadow Strike?

[tribal blade]

it does for sure, but getting into combat faster will equal more dmg in general

you can do it on a case by case basis

[slate marlin]

out of dance and also as a one time the dmg difference is negligible

[surreal willow]

should I choose Shadow Strike to position myself and Shuriken Storm for damage?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter

[tribal blade]

you're slightly overcomplicating it, your real damage will come from what you do in dance and blades windows

[surreal willow]

hoooow, even 0.1% isn't important to you? 🥺

I think I need treatment

[wheat elk]

@lilac stag still believe in tuning?

[slate marlin]

i dont think its even .1%

[surreal willow]

yeah might be 0.001 or less xD

[hazy breach]

I mean sub was effectively just buffed so

[slate marlin]

In comparation to the other specs who were above sub**

[hazy breach]

If you nerf the best specs by 15% and nerf sub by 2-3%

Thats a buff

[slate marlin]

its a nerf to the spec a buff to its relative position

[tribal blade]

yeah a bunch of other specs got taken out back and shot

it's nuts

[slate marlin]

honestly they didnt shoot arcane hard enough

[tribal blade]

sub got a very small nerf

[wheat elk]

but like our st was bad anyways and they made it worse ( a little )

[tribal blade]

what they did to arms is confusing

[slate marlin]

i think they are trying to reduce overall dmg

to their st/aoe goals

[wheat elk]

and we were not in s state that the nerf of the other specs will affect our spot in a comp regardless

[slate marlin]

but arms nerf make no sense even then

[wheat elk]

unholy and arcane still far better

[tribal blade]

yeah arms wasn't even dominating

[wheat elk]

even lock

and many more specs

[hazy breach]

[slate marlin]

well nerfs arent live in prepatch or beta

[wheat elk]

not the point

[proper eagle]

Arms seriously?

[tribal blade]

that's just insane

they actually pulled a joker from TDK on arms

[slate marlin]

well arcane nerf was like 20ish% from what i saw on their discord

demo is 15-20%

idk about uh

[tribal blade]

i heard their cope in the arms disc is that there's some upcoming aura buff or something

which doesn't really make sense

adjusting the breakdown and then leveling off with an aura buff

but you would think they would do it all in 1 go

rank 1 warr barely beating the tank now

[slate marlin]

this is a magisters 18 in beta

with the nerfs and quick math demo ends up at 213k

arcane 173k

[tribal blade]

that's good

[slate marlin]

suub what 185k

or something

[hollow spear]

How can we sit here and say that spec X is still much better when stuff isn't even live

[tribal blade]

it doesn't equate to 3% in a key

because there's a lot of ST in keys

[slate marlin]

thats why i said quick math

[tribal blade]

unless you're pulling trash on every boss

[lilac stag]

The fuck you talking about? Or did you only read rogue.

[slate marlin]

im not to go all in depth

when theres 6 weeks left of tuning until m+

then more tunign after that

[tribal blade]

oh yeah this is still fake numbers

[slate marlin]

and while this changes arent even live

[hollow spear]

I say to you all

Stop the cope

[slate marlin]

what cope

[hollow spear]

Hang rogue on the wall

[slate marlin]

im playing rogue

[hollow spear]

Kiss it goodbye

It's literally over for us

[slate marlin]

at some point i had to accept im a rogue player

i love it

idc if its dogshit ill just make my own key

[hollow spear]

Uhdk and warlock are just way too good, our raid spots are gone

[slate marlin]

thats true

we wont see rogues anywhere

[lilac stag]

sweet I can AFK CE

[slate marlin]

even better

[lilac stag]

best tier ever

[tribal blade]

i'm playing rogue no matter what 😉

[slate marlin]

they need the atrophic but we deal 0 dmg

[lilac stag]

Stealth is powerful.

[hollow spear]

Won't even see rogue in my warband

[slate marlin]

so we can just apply poison and /dance

[tribal blade]

i have to say it feels nice going into this knowing i'm not gonna push title

so i don't need to worry about M+ tuning and meta bs

[slate marlin]

same

season starts same time as my midterms

or midexams however you call them

[tribal blade]

watching blizz's tuning when you're hard sweating in keys is mindblowingly awful

[slate marlin]

and a bit later my finals

idc about this season as much as i care about getting my degree

i dont want to spend another year at uni

im tired of studying

[tribal blade]

haha!

glgl

[hollow spear]

One tricking in combination with title push is masochism imo

[slate marlin]

the russian sub guy

full pugging

[hollow spear]

Peak masochism

[slate marlin]

that guy hates life

[tribal blade]

i did the same thing too

[slate marlin]

hes darth vader his pain fuels him

[tribal blade]

just not at his level

[hollow spear]

He's in it for the love of sub

[slate marlin]

yeah graham but you are not as cool as him

[tribal blade]

I'M NOT

for sure not

he's insane

[lilac stag]

Guess I should update this. Eh?

[slate marlin]

he makes russian accent sound cool af

[tribal blade]

i like listening to him rage when someone does something stupid

and gets him killed

[slate marlin]

sounds like a murloc when he does that

[lilac stag]

Do we want pre-patch or beta meme?

[tribal blade]

definitely prepatch

[slate marlin]

beta

[tribal blade]

everyone and their mother has been coming in here hard dooming because they play sub on the prepatch and think it's a dead spec

[slate marlin]

i refuse to think blue channel cares about prepatch

[lilac stag]

it’s going on right infront of you.

[slate marlin]

oh noo my subtlety rogue is 2 buttons!! 95% same rotation without irrelevant cds

[tribal blade]

i was saying wait for apex from the start

it's not a small thing we gain

[slate marlin]

apex sounds cool

i dont have beta so i havent tried it

[tribal blade]

it's kind of like it removed 1/3rd of the rotation baseline

w/o the min maxes

because no more refunds

[lilac stag]

I love that people are triggered enough to tag me over prepatch tuning

[tribal blade]

add the min maxes on top of it and it adds much more depth

[slate marlin]

yeah i think rogue is pretty well off after the pruning

i 100% get why outlaw mains are upset tho

[tribal blade]

as a sub main i love the outlaw changes

[slate marlin]

losing crakshot.....yikes

i like them too

[tribal blade]

but yeah i understand why they don't like it

it's WAY easier to understand now

[slate marlin]

i think its healthier to not rely on 100% ar uptime

[tribal blade]

that's healthy

it's also healthy for rtb to not need a degree to understand

[slate marlin]

rtb changes are great

i hate how ace is a 2 pointer tho

[tribal blade]

keeps rng on the spec while being very straightforward on reroll rules

[slate marlin]

and 2nd point is worthless

[tribal blade]

i thought the 2nd point gave more % chance so i was confused at first

until i realized it just gave more cp

[slate marlin]

ace refund should be followed by a Bte, not a builder

[tribal blade]

yeah would be cool

[slate marlin]

but overall its great

[tribal blade]

but it's a very nice feeling when you get like 5 ace procs back to back to back

[slate marlin]

im leaning towards assa more this expansion

[tribal blade]

i haven't even set up sin yet

[slate marlin]

i love dots

and sub doesnt have dots anymore

[tribal blade]

but if it plays like old sin there won't be much to learn

[slate marlin]

🙁

[tribal blade]

i find that an issue for pvp

and maybe some edge cases

but specs like outlaw don't have a dot and are fine

so who knows

[slate marlin]

oh yeah ofc

i just like dots

as a thing

to set them and track them

its my thing

[tribal blade]

i was thinking about them replacing backstab with hemo

and then hemo putting a dot on the target

not a big one

[lilac stag]

any non-outlaw main are going to enjoy the changes in over all gameplay.

[slate marlin]

what i want is baseline goomblade bc its purple

make it the new backstab icon for what i care

[tribal blade]

yeah it's awesome

[lilac stag]

Assuming you enjoy reactionary gameplay ye

[slate marlin]

what outlaw needs is a way to craft main hand early without fucking yourself up

pls blizzard normalize sht for swords (and skyfury)

[tribal blade]

would be nice to not be tied to skyfury to deal dmg

i think this new version of sub wants skyfury more than ever before

because more sht is big value with apex

[iron whale]

I wish sub clones looked like this.

[plush roost]

@plush roost how could you do this omg stop

[plush roost]

Its still large but you dont notice it all that much, haste is high and u pool a bit before sblades anyway

[tribal blade]

gotcha big dog

[plush roost]

If anything skyfury just makes your inbetween dances a bit more consistent

Probably like, 1 extra apex proc

[tribal blade]

yeah when i was playing beta sub before the bug fixes and no skyfury energy felt completely fine

[plush roost]

Which is gud obv, but its not like tww where skyfury is like 3 extra finishers in cds

[tribal blade]

makes sense yeah

[plush roost]

I could see a world where u play PE over warning signs with skyfury tho...

Since skyfury is essentially a 20% atkspeed buff and warning signs is 25%

[tribal blade]

oh interesting

especially for heavy aoe i can see that yeah

[plush roost]

Havent tried it yet, PE just feels soooo bad

But it should be gud

[tribal blade]

yeah playing without warning signs feels REALLY bad

i gave it a try and was immediately like this is not it

in ST at least

[plush roost]

Ye i think next time i have a shaman im gonna try a crit heavier build with PE finality and 687 haste

See how it goes

[hazy breach]

Idk it's like 2% more damage compared to like 15% more combo points during dance

[plush roost]

I should give DB a try

No lashe just... idk seems bad

[hazy breach]

No prio type shit

Doesn't seem very good though

[torpid snow]

Does anyone have a reliable addon that shows my racials/trinkets/potions?

[plush roost]

Full send aoe no st no prio no bitches

[plush roost]

BETTER COOLDOWN MANAGER

caps

[slate marlin]

Bosses are fun

So obviosuly 5 min m+ bosses is more fun

[hazy breach]

Like 2% more aoe at the cost of 9% st doesn't seem worthwhile

[slate marlin]

Win win

[plush roost]

Ye not really

[torpid snow]

BCM changes too much in my UI

[plush roost]

Cant u just disable everything and just use the trink racial pot tab?

[tribal blade]

i have a super clunky way to fix that without using an addon

you just move an action bar into your UI