subtlety

[hazy breach]

Theres sites that compare pull count and time in combat per the entire tier

[leaden prairie]

it goes back around

after a bit

just dont be in the middle

[hazy breach]

And theres a very large difference between some guilds in those stats regardless of wr

[shadow lance]

You got link?

[leaden prairie]

tbf thats kinda meaningless

best example is jsut looking at echo vs liquid

liquid always spend significantly more time pulling than echo

i doubt anyone would argue one is better than the other based on that

[hazy breach]

Well it also tracks total raid time, as in difference between first pull and last pull

But yes youre right

[void ocean]

Tho RWF cant rly be compared to regular raiding

[hazy breach]

Im not saying one style is better, its just interesting to look at

[void ocean]

Nobody stops the raid for half an hour to figure strats

[shadow lance]

Nha, we trust the RL

[formal helm]

but they do for certain money incentivised addons

👀

[void ocean]

Honestly cant wait for the first RWF in Midnight

[leaden prairie]

no but guilds that raid very little, prep a lot outside of raid

at the high end i mean

obviously if you are a 1 day guild world 5000

prolly not spending myuch time

[void ocean]

Yea, I'd argue all but top few prep everything outside

[shadow lance]

What's the most accurate? Wowprogress or wlogs?

[warm marlin]

Nothing is truly accurate stats are an estimate

[shadow lance]

Idk ranking is different on both

How can you estimate ranking?

[hazy breach]

Because you cant access the chinese API

Wowprogress doesnt even try to include chinese guilds, wacraftlogs does, as does raider.io

[shadow lance]

Make sense

But no care about ranking tbh, raiding is just having fun with some friendly mates while challenging an hard encounter

[placid elk]

too many ppl care about ranking

good guilds for example

are sims taking into account the belt nerf? for some reason even mythic gloves sim higher than a 730 belt with vers mastery

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7udJ4mJRb2ge3UAb5yCiK5
sim link for reference

[alpine wraith]

yes belt is already nerfed in sims

[placid elk]

i think its because my crit is very low 19% everything with crit is an upgrade

so losing crit from belt even nerfed is bad

[alpine wraith]

well it depends now you replace it with a 714 or 710 belt

before some people did not even replace it with a 730

i could replace it with a 723 losing 4k dps after fix

a 717 is 35k dps upgrade

[shadow lance]

What make a guild a good one?

[placid elk]

hall of fame for example or cutting edge early (not some guilds that get CE last day with full bis gear and 200 nerfs)

[shadow lance]

So you don't get the point

You can play with really good players but only play 5 hours a week

You won't get HoF

Having CE > 96% of players

[near compass]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/my-sweet-summer-child-sweet-summer-child-game-of-thrones-gif-19977020

[placid elk]

if you're in a guild that doesn't care about rankings and just gets CE for fun then you are lucky, those are very rare

good players + not caring too much

[shadow lance]

I pref 100 times play with "not the most competitive guys" but having good time than spend 9-12 hours a week next to players with an horrible behaviour

Cuz, more you play "high level" more the vibes are toxics

imo

[alpine wraith]

many of us prefer that but also not pulling a boss 1500 times is cool sometimes

although friend guilds and regular guilds dont even raid that much too so it always depends

[final granite]

https://tenor.com/view/hasty-generalization-logical-fallacy-logical-fallacies-debate-argument-gif-15985273392258042922

[shadow lance]

"imo"

[quaint lodge]

Ranking is a weird topic but if you wanna fight a hard boss, you basically have to raid more

Dimensius is a joke after reset and this much ilvl

Like I'd rather raid 2 days 3 hours, but if I wanna play the actual game raiding, you p much have to raid at least 3 days a week to see the content before blizzard nerfs or ilvl gets too high

[tepid trellis]

its more like 7 days

they neutered dimmy p1 on our 2nd night on him

and we are around wr 50-70

[vale pine]

wait

isn't the baguett trinket out today

or when does that get released

[quaint lodge]

Yea I remember foreverguy tweeting about that one too

He was what, like4-5% on it, reset hpapens, ggs boss dies in 2 pulls or w/e

I think CE is a rather chill experience, but I also just don't wanna have prog until end of season either

[plush roost]

I personally think the NK and dim nerfs were like 2 weeks too early

But w.e ig

[quaint lodge]

Idk why they don't just let ilvl run its natural course of progression

[plush roost]

I just wanna kill a boss when its hard zzz

[quaint lodge]

Like the ilvl IS the nerf

its probably my biggest reason why I dislike raiding

Raiding only gets easier

M+ can get harder

[plush roost]

Halfway through NK prog. Nerf happens. Dies on pull 3 of the night i cba

[shadow lance]

You got a point there

[quaint lodge]

I do think that the turbo boost is really good for the majority of the community, people need the ilvl to progress content, and the nerfs as well

I just wish they'd wait towards when people are more max ilvl so they can accurately nerf FOR those people

Because those nerfs aren't for the people that are just progging and not palying 7 days a week

[lilac stag]

Just get HoF 4head

[plush roost]

I mean, we did, us 47

Just sucks that were smurfing a tier as 2day and bosses are nerfed

[lilac stag]

well that do happen

i dont envy them trying to balance raid long term vs roster boss for some of the lower CE guilds

always going to piss off a guild progging on it with a nerf

[unborn vault]

this new 730 item upg is fked 🙁

[quaint lodge]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[maiden oar]

i wish they let u fight an optional unnerfed version of a boss for fun

like talk to a bronze dragon or whatever

i wanna fight unnerfed dimmy

[lilac stag]

I’m surprised they haven’t tbh unless there’s some weird code shit preventing it

[quaint lodge]

^ theres weird shit preventing everything in this game

me when i hit flag and then we wipe now my raid lead has to set a 90 second pull timer

[karmic harbor]

bro im being randomly teleported to tazavesh whenever i try to upgrade gear

[tight monolith]

any cd tips for nexus king? killing it tonight most likely and have not felt too hot with my cds since autumn aint available and platform cds feels abit awkward and I dont feel like I get full juice on burn. I play prism + passive and now with turbo boost and new 3 percent I am debating abt just dropping popping flag and blades on platform and holding till burn.

[vale pine]

its the univers, idk what you did to upset it

[quaint lodge]

[minor sorrel]

btw how high should our single target simms be at the moment?

[swift tinsel]

I'm hitting 5mil at 716ilvl

am baby

[turbid zodiac]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[karmic harbor]

random dcs on eu

raid will be fun

[maiden oar]

can get a good burn flagging off cd with no autumn

just wait until flag and spread ruptures on platform though if u dance before flag its kinda messy

and also can just pool coup/sht stacks before amp and start going once flag comes back if u were good about keeping flag on cd

idk ideal prism + passive cd timings though

probably depends on how much u want platform dam

[tight monolith]

cheers yeah will stick with it and just git gud tonight

[karmic harbor]

post a log

[autumn pawn]

what is the command for orc maghar on raidbot pls?

[maiden oar]

should be like this for no autumn

orange is flag yellow is shadow dance

[warm marlin]

If your group can easily do the platform without your flag you can skip it

I did in reclear last night just doing some boss damage testing

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fK84GVzZdHhRpBLQ?fight=56&playermetric=bossdps&type=damage-done&targetclass=Boss

Lets you get the autumn burn off for damage amp without autumn

[left ledge]

I’m very geared and I’m at 5.3ish

[wild hornet]

is antenna or forge trinket better for nexus prince

[left ledge]

Think 723 or something

[left ledge]

Antenna is pretty decent esp for burn

Forge is easier to play with and similar overall results

If you’re not going to play antenna properly or you are trying to focus more on prog mechanics, I’d recommend forge

[wild hornet]

whats the antenna mechanic like even?

[left ledge]

Orbs that SLOWLY drift to you

And you have to either kite them or pick them up depending on cd timers

Basically you get cucked by movement, but there’s down time on the fight that allows for easy use of antenna

Like platforms or burn

[wild hornet]

is that why forge is reccomended on dimmy?

[left ledge]

Yes

Lots of movement isn’t good for antenna

[wild hornet]

that somehow sounds worse than transmitter

[left ledge]

Mmmm

Not really

It isn’t rare to proc

With transmitter if you miss it that’s all your damage gone

At least with this it’s just a boost that happens quite often

Your main steroid is going to come from prism anyways

[wild hornet]

yeah i got mythic prism at lesat

[left ledge]

You know what it’s like

That witherbark branch or whatever

The WoD trinket

[wild hornet]

i just cant decide whether i should try to get antenna or forge first

maybe antenna first

[left ledge]

It’s kinda like that but more random

[maiden oar]

@warm marlin i tried the snd thing and it felt kind of weird, do i want to symbols later so farming sectech cdr doesnt eat as much into my sht stacks?

[wild hornet]

but ill end up with both when dinars come out then

[wild hornet]

i see

i mean transmitter you control when you do the minigame

[maiden oar]

i think i probably didnt execute it correctly

[wild hornet]

antenna you just run aroudn the entire time

[left ledge]

Yeah well

You have like 20 sec for the orbs or something

From when it procs

But the random nature of its procs makes it yeah

Unreliable on some fights

Personally I just played forge for prog

Easy, no brainer

Guaranteed to do well with it

[hazy breach]

I dont know if timigns have changed now

But pacemaker seemed really solid before

[left ledge]

Oh yeah that trinky pretty good for dim

We did no hold this week, timers are GIGA ASS for sub without holding

[hazy breach]

Ye

Turns out if the pad adds arent spawning at exactly 90s intervals sub aint that good of a spec

[left ledge]

it’s ok I ass blasted the boss

Beaten only by ele

[pastel radish]

[maiden oar]

once it goes faster and u can do 2nd flag on artoshion and 3rd on amp will it be that bad

like heroic

[left ledge]

Is arto first platform

[maiden oar]

yes

[left ledge]

You can’t do that unless you hold a p1 flag I fear

[maiden oar]

oh yea

thats what ppl do in heroic

they hold the p1 flag and push like sub 2mins

[left ledge]

Yeah idk maybe we’ll get there

Push sub 2 mins is

[maiden oar]

i think so with 730 and buff

[left ledge]

Def not happening

[maiden oar]

well

idk how long flying takes

they 2nd flag at 2:2x

[hazy breach]

~40

from when he grips you

[maiden oar]

oh holy moly

ok yeah i think maybe thats not happening

[left ledge]

Yeah it’s

Unfortunate

My flag came up 15 sec into platform 1

Just wasn’t worth sending

I sent on 2 with autumn

[maiden oar]

wonder if you still consider doing this with more turbo boost/renown

[left ledge]

I mean we did our first clear

With turbo boost

[maiden oar]

oh i meant just sacrificing 2nd flag in p1

even if the timers arent as favorable for it as heroic

[left ledge]

It might be the play

But idk

Then you can’t flag platform 2

Like no matter what you do

You will lose a cd set

[maiden oar]

well if people arent holding on platform 2 the amp is more valuable right

[left ledge]

Yes ofc

[maiden oar]

so maybe its fine idk

[left ledge]

Yeah it could be

It depends who has cds though

Because since we aren’t holding

Platform 2 damage is lower in general

[maiden oar]

yea

[left ledge]

Because we full send on 1

Then people hold for burn

It’s weird

[maiden oar]

it is

[left ledge]

I didn’t like it tbh, but it gets us out of the raid quicker

And I don’t think my guild gives a fuck as long as we clear quick

They wanna play legion remix and other stuff

[maiden oar]

thats fair yeah

[left ledge]

It’s def the play for boss damage though

Maybe if asp excluded the adds

[maiden oar]

i feel like there has to be some sort of cook for deep farm thats good

but i dont know what it is

[left ledge]

I mean I feel like the platforms should be excluded

[maiden oar]

thats fair

[left ledge]

Because if people choose or not to skip cores changes damage, and then if you cheese kill an extra voidwarden it counts

It’s lame shit

[maiden oar]

honestly i dont know whats normal for excluding stuff in wow

in xiv that literally never happpened before i quit

(supposedly they considered it on the most recent savage tier)

[left ledge]

I think if you can do anything that purposefully allows you to pad more damage

It should be excluded

[maiden oar]

ic

[left ledge]

Like killing an extra voidwarden is straight useless

It shouldn’t count

Being able to do like 100m more damage to arto or pargoth because you skip a core is also stupid

On nexus people say the platforms should be removed but at least it’s always the same adds

Same shit every time

0 variance

[maiden oar]

yeah

[left ledge]

You literally CANT change that fight

[maiden oar]

skipping cores is so funny

[left ledge]

Yeah we had to skip before turbo boost once

Because we killed too fast for hold strat

[maiden oar]

i think we might have to

we swapped off artoshion to target the void men and he still got cleaved down before rock

funny fight

[left ledge]

Easy fix

Exclude from logs

Then nobody will hold

[maiden oar]

u are perhaps on to something

[left ledge]

Then we can all be ethical boss deleters

[clever delta]

what is this 😄

[left ledge]

Soul hunter trinket

Have you tried simming forge as trinket 1

And prism as trinket 2

I think that matters

[clever delta]

should i?

[left ledge]

Yes I believe so

[maiden oar]

huh

thats crazy

[left ledge]

I think sims use 1 then 2

[maiden oar]

ok i will redo my macros and gear

i did not know

[left ledge]

Well your actual gear doesn’t matter

But I think for double on use the sims use trinket 1 first every time

Unless that was changed in some simc update

[maiden oar]

i see

i meant the order

i have prism as use 13 and forge as use 14

just drag em to other spot in each set

also do u have any insight on replicating shadows on nexus king

i see some people do it but im unsure of its value

[left ledge]

It’s ok but you have to give up PE

[maiden oar]

yeah

i cant tell if thats worth

[left ledge]

I think it might be slightly more damage just from platforms

But eh

Cba

[maiden oar]

ty

[left ledge]

Difference is probably less than regular variance

[maiden oar]

i like pe

[left ledge]

Think the only fight that actually warrants RS is soul hunters

[maiden oar]

yeah thats true

ive been considering doing flag -> 2x rupture -> blades on soul hunters but

i dont know how to tell if thats good

and i dont see anyone else do it

[left ledge]

Just play normally I think

Most of the RS value comes from outside your cds

Because you literally do nothing outside of cds

[maiden oar]

ah ok

i thought rupture was pretty good when boosted with all the cd amps

[left ledge]

It is

But not good enough to change rotation

Only thing is, refresh before intermissions

Since they take damage while up in the air

[maiden oar]

ty

[left ledge]

Just ran a sim of myself and the difference looks almost negligible between swapping trinket positions so honestly

[clever delta]

ye

but what about that trinket

[left ledge]

No fkin clue

[lost seal]

quick quest, can i macro SOD with SD ?

[clever delta]

is it actually good

[left ledge]

I mean it does damage

That’s about it

It definitely won’t be as good for abusing amps

[clever delta]

i will run antena this reset just becasue i cba with normal forge

[left ledge]

I ran antenna this clear

[maiden oar]

wonder when antenna+prism is better

[left ledge]

Wasn’t that bad tbh

[maiden oar]

i think its definitely correct on soulbinder but also i think that boss is removed anyway

[clever delta]

u r subti right

[left ledge]

Yeah

[clever delta]

i was looking at logs with antena and was bad at all

[lost seal]

?

[left ledge]

Now that you mention logs

I’m the only rogue running that shit on dim it seems

LMAO

[clever delta]

eleem do

and zac did

[left ledge]

I mean on .5 logs

[clever delta]

eu is tonight

[left ledge]

Ye

I just checked the NA ones

It’s me and some outlaw rogue

[clever delta]

im only first 6/8 this week

[maiden oar]

i finish dimmy on monday since we have new trials progging the fight

i have some ideas but idk if theyre any good

i could just be overthinking it

[left ledge]

Don’t check my prism usage on my dim kill this reset though

I kinda forgot to press the button

[clever delta]

i saw that

[maiden oar]

[left ledge]

I’m just used to forge in p1

[clever delta]

i was like boy is delaying for his life

[left ledge]

Yeah I forgot to press in p1

And I was like

Eh I’m saving for burn

We had problems in p1

[clever delta]

what are those new nexus kill timers

its insane

[left ledge]

Oh yeah LOL

That boss is just melting

[clever delta]

you melt both drake nad boss at same time

[maiden oar]

yea i am excited for next week i have a new plan

to destroy nexus king in 1 hit

[left ledge]

I didn’t even have 18 stacked I think

[maiden oar]

im going to not use the snd macro

thats my entire plan (i think its either not that good or im too sutpid to use it properly )

probably 2nd one

[split stirrup]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tired dome]

How do you guys parse better on Sub? It seems like if I dont line up my CDs perfectly to get the perfect SecTec off on adds, my parse is low

[magic ravine]

anyone else not being able to re-craft their daggers? 2 different crafters have not been able to yet

[opal mantle]

yes

[limber relic]

I mean thats kinda how it works

[opal basalt]

you have 1 insane go every 90s

[karmic harbor]

if ive never used antenna how hard is it to use

[opal basalt]

most just fly towards you

and then you sidestep and take it

i've seen some hover near me but never come close enough to collect them

[left ledge]

Like others have said

That’s literally how

Either go for boss damage parses

Or suffer cringe

[vagrant fulcrum]

i dont have time to sim

do we replace belt with 707/704 socket

[left ledge]

Yes

Delve belt is dogshit

[vagrant fulcrum]

ty

[left ledge]

Just replace it

[limber relic]

Mine still sims better then what i got >.> Mythic belts arent real

And i aint dumping gilded on a belt

[left ledge]

Yeah I mean if you don’t have anything unlucky

Or just craft

[maiden oar]

are boe belts more expensive now

[left ledge]

But the delve belt got nuked this patch

[limber relic]

Maybe in 2 weeks when turbo actually starts

[maiden oar]

i tricked myself into buying one

[limber relic]

Much better things to spend crests on then a belt

[opal mantle]

full passive is ok

[maiden oar]

bc i was sure that the delve belt nerf would jack their prices up

[karmic harbor]

i think we kill nexus today but ive only used forge/prism and got antenna in vault

i think with buffs platforms should explode so araz might be troll

[left ledge]

It’s easy to use, you should still be able to full cd platform and burn

So araz isn’t troll

It’s probably still better for overall than antenna

[karmic harbor]

overall is w/e

will antenna do more boss dam

probably

[left ledge]

For boss damage yes

It will

ESP on burn

Because you prism burn

[rose tulip]

what flask do you guys use in keys

[opal basalt]

chaos and pot

like a g

[near compass]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[warm marlin]

Yeah you have to farm some cdr first then symbols

It’ll cap you pretty fast on sht

Fk all that noise though

I’m converted

I will hold a flag for add plat I’m if padding or hold it on add plat if I’m boss attacking

Temu autumn either way

[plush roost]

I think i may just play assa brain off cd on cd this week

Too lazy to figure out timers

[warm marlin]

The parse was better than expected skipping add plat (minus like one dance) ngl

[plush roost]

Are add platforms going too fast now

Surely

Same with pargoth/arto i bet

[hushed roost]

bruh finally over 5m sim

[maiden oar]

i think im just going to ditch the macro

maybe ur correct

i did feel cool bug abusing though

but i think my amp was just worse bc i executed the macro poorly

[maiden oar]

not yet surprisingly

[bleak night]

[maiden oar]

we love it

[warm marlin]

A couple things with your image: I don’t think the unseens are worth much on their own, burn should prob be rup vanish strike flag BP dance bs etc so you’re getting only getting one unseen out of disorienting before you overwrite it anyway, and coup is prepped already. Main goal of the raw sectec there is to get coup up, if you already have it up it’s probably fine to skip it. Think you also sent one snd too many (the rupture after flag will give 7s cdr too), could have symbols at 3:59 instead delaying it only 4s

[maiden oar]

TY

[scenic plover]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/u5KaMbhbzjmTBAzevmv68v
got some big upgrades this week

[maiden oar]

i see

i thought the goal was coup + 2 unseens

[warm marlin]

I think I did try for it originally

But sectec overwrites anyway

[maiden oar]

[warm marlin]

Missing 3% FF + a little bit of unseen damage

I had a 42M dps burn yesterday just doing the rup vanish strike thing with coup and 14sht

[maiden oar]

ok i will learn about rupture vanish strike

[shy flare]

Is Netherprism really as strong as the sim says for dslice? It’s telling me it’s 300k better than Lily

Is it starting at max stacks or something?

[left ledge]

No

[vagrant fulcrum]

no, this spec just does such dogshit dps outside of cds

[left ledge]

It is just a crazy strong trinket

[vagrant fulcrum]

that all that really matters is stats during cds

[left ledge]

I mean forget that

Just look at how much it gives

[vagrant fulcrum]

prism isn't as broken for other classes

warriors dont use it

[left ledge]

Nothing else even comes close

[shy flare]

Yeah it just seems wild how much better than Lily it is, on paper Lily seems perfect for sub

[vagrant fulcrum]

look at the numbers

like 9k mast vs like 60k agi

[left ledge]

What makes Lily perfect and not prism

Prism is lily but on steroids

[shy flare]

I just started playing it 4 days ago tho so I’m prbly just not thinking about it right

Oh I’m not saying prism doesn’t look good

[left ledge]

Lily is good for sub

[shy flare]

Just doesn’t seem like it should be THAT much better haha

[left ledge]

It just straight up gives less than prism though

[shy flare]

300k is absurd

[left ledge]

It should be more than 300k

Did you sim mythic prism

[shy flare]

Nah was just going 710 since that’s what my Lily is currently at

I only do mythic plus as well so mythic prism not gonna happen for me

[left ledge]

Ah ok

Well on the bright side

You can play Lily with prism

[shy flare]

But after swapping sub it has me considering pushing for mythic raiding.

[left ledge]

You’d just go Lily>Lily>Prism>Lily>Prism etc

[shy flare]

Is generally best setup for m+ prism plus a passive trinket?

Like pacemaker

[left ledge]

Generally yes but very few passive trinkets are good

Pace and antenna basically

But running double on use is very close in dps

[shy flare]

Ok. I do have hero pacemaker and will buy a mythic one with dinars so that’s good

Honestly I’m still a little overwhelmed with the spec so one passive is prbly good for me

Until I get more comfortable

Still doing dumb shit occasionally like not having 2 dances ready for flag/blades and a few incorrect key presses during cds

[vagrant fulcrum]

ngl

this fucking patch on dimmy prog

is a headache

trying to figure out cd timings again

[clever delta]

im back just when i start being antenna enjoyer

[maiden oar]

congrat

[clever delta]

R1 on forge, can you guiys chill tonight

thanks in advance

[shy flare]

I’m having trouble understanding something in the opener on wowhead. So if we need 4 stacks of unseen blade to proc coup and unseen blade can only occur once every 20seconds how are we getting the coup to proc in that window?

[karmic harbor]

it's so hard to see the orbs in the middle of everyone 😭

[gloomy loom]

better araz and prism or antenna and prism?

[clever delta]

depends on boss really

dimmy is still better with double on use

[left ledge]

Sectec

Tier

And that one talent in trickster that resets ub with autos

[shy flare]

Ah ok I didn’t read 2 set. What the deal with sectec?

[magic ravine]

is prism + forge bis over prism + antenna with 730 ilvl?

[hazy breach]

Either is fine

[minor sorrel]

just keep relogging as a crafter to solve

[minor sorrel]

i run pace + Stone idol since i have that on myth and no forge yet in sight. But subtlty is fo much fun to learn to be honest

and going with my dog for a quick walk between cooldowns is awsome kinda XD

[shy flare]

It is a lot of fun and very humbling. As assa I was top dmg almost every key I do but it was getting boring. Sub has so much more to it and I have a ton to improve on

[void ocean]

did anyone check on 11.2.5 ptr, can we buy boots for dinars?

soul hunter boots, to be more precise

[minor sorrel]

nah

didnt check

[strange chasm]

wont have to worry about any of this

soon its just a fb sin angle all of reclear

[alpine wraith]

we will never forget you

[wheat elk]

people are geniunly sad

in this shitty ass community

[lilac stag]

tell em to press black arrow more

or to play a spec that a requires more than 2 buttons

[wheat elk]

funny thing is i had the most damage on the blood overseers ( ara kara after the second boss mobs)

[lilac stag]

Expected

people just suck and redirect & project it

[pastel radish]

I even tested it out myself by making a BM hunter

Oh my god

[lilac stag]

One of our hunters said make a hunter and see how “easy” it is (sarcasm on easy). I said make a sub rogue and let’s see who parses better.

[pastel radish]

LMFAOOOOOOOO

I’d love to see that

[vital sage]

if I decided to play hunter in legion remix.. will I miss out on cool rogue/leather/dagger tmogs?

[tepid trellis]

@warm marlin whoops

@hazy breach i might have padded a bit

[lilac stag]

padding is all sub is good for

[real panther]

I'm desperate idk why i am doing such a shit dps this season... I don't see clearly what is off

[warm marlin]

How much BP?

The true mark of a gamer

[tepid trellis]

3 casts

before flag was ready on the platform

[wind canopy]

This MFer…

#wow-general

[vital sage]

oops

[wind canopy]

[junior lintel]

Yo guys - if i play forge + prism, do i just alternate between them even tho prism might not hit max stacks?

[alpine wraith]

mamma mia

[slate lantern]

Well the alternative is like what, sending nothing on a cd window with 15/18 stacks or whatever of prism?

[junior lintel]

Yeah that was what i was wondering - didnt really seem worth

[warm marlin]

ethical gameplay by my standards

why is the log private tho

i thought yall were public now

[tepid trellis]

think most people where in favor of private

[karmic harbor]

servers dead?

eu tmill

[tepid trellis]

"people will pad less" little do they know im the pad fiend of all

[warm marlin]

our farm has almost 0 rules

crazy

[real panther]

if someone have time to check and point me the omega obvious mistake/anything that makes my dps shit like that?

[tepid trellis]

at the end of the day i would prefer them be public, so i can use them to show people stuff, but can still sorta do with screenshots, i just want my page to be pretty when i open it

[warm marlin]

ya i get it, we private log during prog for very similar reasons that you stated

[tepid trellis]

private or not, i will still pad

its fun

[warm marlin]

just too many true sub gamers private log farm

[vale pine]

servers have issues all day, game is a bit cooked atm

[tepid trellis]

i asked them to upload the left side on logs, and i got flamed

[alpine wraith]

little did they know the racoon dog has a mask for a reason

[warm marlin]

clear ur name king at least you didnt bp

[tepid trellis]

i did indeed not

[solid bear]

Is delve belt still worth using?

[tepid trellis]

better to just sims yourself for that answer

its still decent

[solid bear]

I have to use first boss mythic belt to 720 for it to be an upgrade ;_;

[alpine wraith]

yea you need to upgrade a mythic belt for most people

need at least 714-710

[real panther]

😭

[dusk stone]

am i wrong that you can switch flasks in combat?

i was trying to do that on loom lasts night and i kept getting some message about not being able to override a higher quality flask

except i only own t3 flasks

[twin quartz]

You might need a cancelaura macro

That’s a maximum cheese strat but if you absolutely want mastery on the amp or whatever, maybe it’s big gains heh

[lilac stag]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[lilac stag]

Otherwise use !log

[shy flare]

Disc belt is simming 130k worse than my 704 hero track belt, am I doing something wrong?

[hearty belfry]

Yes clones are back lets goo

[shy flare]

Actually nvm, getting different results depending on how I sim. Like having it equipped already vs subbing it in item compare

[sudden quarry]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[shy flare]

How do I sim the different disc belt powers?

[lilac stag]

Click the + in top gear

any heroic belt without haste should outsim it

[shy flare]

I might be slow, where is the +?

Ah I think I need the simc addon to even use it

That’s prbly the issue

[twin quartz]

My weakaura that plays a little noise when I get shadowcraft resets bugs out and plays a noise every time I hit a button, but only on the platforms on mythic saladhands

Anyone else having that issue? It’s really weird

[tepid trellis]

yeh it just on him it happens

no clue what causes it

[dense geode]

impossible to pad in my guild double dk fury warr

shit explodes so fast

[real panther]

what !log do? !mistakes was not relevent. I have xp on sub, I don't say that to brag or anything but to express why i'm confused about my curent situation and frustrated not finding what's happening.. I mean, there's min mistakes like sometime i'm rushing too much and spend sod to soon regarding st cd (when outside the 90s cds), but i'm pretty sure the problem is somewhere else

!log

[mighty citrus]

on dim p3 can i cloak the tankpulls and dont get pulled towards the tanks then?

[lilac stag]

You literally fuck up the opener before pressing dance. Perhaps reread !mistakes

whatever experience you have is not really relevant if you haven’t played this tier

Everything revolves around SoD and Sectech

[tepid trellis]

afaik No you cannot, but also u dont really want to, since the soak goes of a different times, so might as well just learn how to them like its meant to

[real panther]

you are refering to the sod right after the flag?

[clever bay]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[woeful wedge]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[jade oasis]

so for using dance symbols, is it 2 in cds -> 2 out->2 in cds->1 out->repeat?

[supple verge]

do we get increased vault ilvl for killing m soul hunters or did i imagine that

[karmic harbor]

the ilvl you get from mythic vault is based on the ilvl of the loot of whatever the boss furthest in the raid you killed is

[supple verge]

oh thanks, is it permanent or per week

[karmic harbor]

pretty sure its permanent but idk

[hazy breach]

Its per week

Not permanent

[tidal marsh]

Lemme just go slam some +2s real quick to get Myth track vaults

[warm marlin]

nah dimensius is so cursed without autumn now

[native zodiac]

how fast did you push it now

i think it might be an angle soon to skip blades on platform 2

[warm marlin]

blades at 130 in p1 didnt have it up on pull of arto

was like 4s late

land on pargoth and blades are 25s away

no hold strat

[native zodiac]

jesus

but yeah that p much means no blades on pargoth

[chrome palm]

just ask for autumn

[craggy quest]

How’d that go our guild was gonna do it but due to time restraints we just held dps(cringe)

[warm marlin]

we are currently struggling to kill pargoth since no one has cds

[warm marlin]

fk u

im coping by spamming giant emotes in chat

good content hope they dont fix

[maiden oar]

is there a convenient list of all the icon codes somewhere

i just post the seal i like that guy

[warm marlin]

you can use literally any icon in the game

there are thousands

[maiden oar]

oh yeah i meant is there some db that i can search

or do i just browse the files

[warm marlin]

file browse is how i found some

[maiden oar]

[warm marlin]

im partial to: inv_larva2_darkred, inv_babypig, inv_pet_maggot, ability_suffocate, inv_misc_noose_01 (spicy), Inv_spell_arcane_telepotdornogal

[maiden oar]

|cffffffffTinterface/ICONS/Ability_seal:225:275:0:-1|cfffffffft

i like this one

i didnt know that maggot icon was in the game

[warm marlin]

maggot is goated

[shrewd lantern]

do i play replicating on salad

[graceful mulch]

how do you do this??

[short radish]

|cffffffffTinterface/Addons/MRT/media/frieren2:275:275:0:-1|cfffffffft

https://www.wowhead.com/icons

also just go here

[warm marlin]

wait this is op

[maiden oar]

ty

[dense swallow]

on mythic ssalhadaar does my rupture apply on both after phase 1

[short radish]

shitpost away my friend

[plucky mesa]

question for fellas

is sub rogue like a bad aoe class or am i doing something wrong?

im literally only doing any dps in my flag+blades window

[native zodiac]

you dont realy do damage outside of shadow dance yes

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[short radish]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[short radish]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[warm marlin]

[plucky mesa]

!opener

!commands

bruh

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

openers are in there

[short radish]

our druid has half our raid team blocked

[plucky mesa]

does anyone mind actually explaining something for me or just redirecting me to websites ive already been to? lol

[plucky mesa]

why? lol

[dense geode]

what u looking for?

[short radish]

depends if your question is already explained in the guide

but sure try anyway

[plucky mesa]

im trying to figure out why for every opener i use ST as soon as i pop shadowdance (outside of the first dance)

would it not be better to get aleast 3-4 stacks of danse macabre first?

[short radish]

because thats what the clanker says for us to do

playing around DM isn't really a thing

also leaving ST off cooldown means you can't press it sooner anyway

[dense geode]

trickster and danse macabre isnt that big of a deal

[short radish]

plus pressing sectech gives us unseen blade procs

[dense geode]

also you want to have stech for 2nd dance because its the one that does the big dam

[short radish]

tl;dr obey the guide

people smarter than you and me have figured out the optimisation

[plucky mesa]

i asked why we dont build, i didnt ask for u to be a dick about it lmao

[plucky mesa]

ah

yeah i usually get 2 st off when i have the first dance buff

[dense geode]

i dont think you want to ST twice in one dance

[warm marlin]

you do indeed

[dense geode]

alright dont mind me then

[warm marlin]

you just want it on cd and getting your unseens off asap

getting full clones in tfd very nice if it happens too

[short radish]

im just trying to stop you from going down a rabbit hole of some random min/max you think you've found which doesn't acutally work out

not that you're not able to find one

but if you're starting off and learning shit

just do per guide

and experiment later

you are not the first person to go down a path of "DM buffs damage and sectech is big damage so we should make big number biggerer"

i have some that if I have coup going into sectech, that i do finishers as evis (coup) -> sectech -> evis (coup) even though that's probably wrong

but i do it anyway because it feels good

but really, you probably shouldn't do it

[warm marlin]

#subtlety message

[topaz agate]

I have a cook where I spec out of sectech

No I will not share

Yes I am grey parsing

[dense swallow]

for mythic salad when intermission hits is it worth insta using dance and symbols or wait for flag?

idk if anyone knows

[short radish]

share your burnt build and i'll share mine

[topaz agate]

Warcraft logs is rigged

[topaz agate]

Salad??

Healthy eating boss?

[short radish]

behold

[dense swallow]

salad bar

[short radish]

pretty sure its a wait for flag angle

[maiden oar]

yeah doing it at 430 is ok

unless u delayed flag at any point then u might not get 3 dances if u dont dance first

[short radish]

or beg for autumn from your non existant hpal

[maiden oar]

like delayed for more than a second or 2

[dense swallow]

alright ill save my dances for flag spawn on ads

[maiden oar]

wait which intermission

just to make sure i understood

[dense swallow]

after the beams

the intermission

[maiden oar]

oh the platform?

[dense swallow]

yeah

[maiden oar]

ok some ppl call the amp the intermission

or the beams the intermission (confusing!)

for platform if u have no autumn just spread ruptures then flag off cd

if u get the 4 dashes can flag after doing ur dash if u arent cloaking it

but dont delay it more than a tiny bit bc for amp u want it as close to 430 as possible

[dense swallow]

whats autumn

was mid pull @maiden oar

[maiden oar]

hpal gives u a buff that makes ur cd recover faster

[short radish]

the season after summer

[maiden oar]

if u have a friendly hpal u want it at 45s

[dense swallow]

true

[maiden oar]

only need it once

[dense swallow]

we dont have an hpal

[maiden oar]

oh ok

[plucky mesa]

hpal has 1 cooldown that lets them compete with other healers, they shouldnt be putting that on a dps lol

[maiden oar]

its insane value for sub on dimmy

on nexus king its ok

[dense swallow]

also what are you talking about cloaking

[maiden oar]

the massacres (4 adds dash through titan)

you dont have to

but its an option if you want to get uptime

[maiden oar]

fwiw every rwf hpal did this and almost every hof hpal did this

so its not bad

[plucky mesa]

RWF is not ur average heroic raid lol, their raid is optimized, to not take dps, and all of them are actually using deffensives, and have other healers to kinda carry them thru the raid (not an actual carry) doing it in a pug or a average guild run isnt smart if healing may be an issue

[maiden oar]

i think for mythic dimmy at this point in the season its not an unreasonable ask

[plucky mesa]

also, how important is using rupture on sub rogue?

[dense swallow]

alright this is good to know i'll keep that in mind to try and save it if possible

[maiden oar]

and for salhadaar a few weeks ago as well

since salhadaar u dont even have to hold it

[maiden oar]

oh yeah i know im talking about mythic prog

i got autumn on dimensius but not nexus king

and i think it was ok

but with new push timings and raid buff and turbo boost might not need autumn in the future who knows!

[maiden oar]

good but dont delay dances/flag

[plucky mesa]

theyre removing it in midnight anyways

[short radish]

i think with new turbo boost/push timings

[warm marlin]

the dimensius pull of pain and suffering

[short radish]

you just dont cast anyway

at 1:30

[warm marlin]

nah its just cursed

you cant cast on both plats without holding on artoshion properly

and he just dies insta

so you need to skip 1

[short radish]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[maiden oar]

could either be 2nd flag artoshion 3rd flag amp or 2nd flag p1 3rd flag useless low value time on artoshion 4th flag amp

unsure

ill miss pargoth flag

[short radish]

since we're still on prog. i get to send

[warm marlin]

today i was doing 2 flags p1, flag pargoth, flag p3 after amp

tell me how fun that was

[short radish]

damn thats cursed

[maiden oar]

that sounds grim

[warm marlin]

we chain wiped to pargoth not dying until i moved cds

[short radish]

surely you do 1 flag p1, 1 flag arto and 1 flag p3

oh

ecks dee

[warm marlin]

and sometimes pargoth just insta dies

so amp starts with 15s left exact on flag

gg or what?

[short radish]

hunter critting black arrow or something

[warm marlin]

the singular dance of pain and suffering

[maiden oar]

that is so sad

[warm marlin]

eventually mages will be enough to kill pargoth

[maiden oar]

we love mages

[warm marlin]

and you can do p1 p1 artoshion dmg amp

which will be goated

[maiden oar]

i wonder where in artoshion that flag ends up

is it like during wind

[warm marlin]

late but you can hold for 2nd add set

since you have all of pargoth to get it back

[maiden oar]

oh ok i just assumed hes dead

[warm marlin]

oh

[maiden oar]

partway through 2nd add

[warm marlin]

ye true

hmm

well you just cast whenever i guess

[maiden oar]

yea

unless ppl skip orbs

we love skipping orbs

[warm marlin]

pushing p1 at 2:20 you still land at 3:00

as long as you insta cast flag itll mostly be fine

[maiden oar]

ah ok

[graceful rock]

any life hacks for the big dim

[short radish]

dont assume because boss has been turbo nerf'd that its super easy

[graceful rock]

oh im expecting to be on the boss for like 4 weeks

[short radish]

attalad

uhhhh

focus a DK or someone you can trust for knockbacks

then make a shadowstep macro to step to your focus target

you can start preramping your sht stacks and unseenblades since youre going to be holding dps in p1

takes like 30 seconds to fly over or something (?)

so do the math from there

[graceful rock]

I wanna take the speed paths too yeah?

[short radish]

if you dont have autumn yeah

if you do then its fine

[worthy pulsar]

if we are playing Tea, do we try to ensure energy more than 30 outside dance?

[dusk stone]

no

macro dance to tea and forget about it

[west tide]

just get an autumn bro

im sending on all plats and start of burn

[warm marlin]

Yeah me too on prog

Now that we don’t hold it’s impossible even if I had autumn

There are only 1min10s between landing on plat 1 and landing on plat 2, same w landing on pargoth vs amp

[hoary stag]

question: should i bother in timing flag/shadowblades with adds on araz or just send dmg to time it with amps? we have very strong aoe dps players that sometimes kill adds even before my second part of sectech starts hitting them. So far i was timing first flag for first adds, but a lot of times i am not getting the dmg spike based on how fast adds die

[west tide]

ahh we do like a slight tiny hold on plat 1 we go at like 2:30 ish before the lastbig explosion and then a small hold on plat 1

like maybe 5 sec

[warm marlin]

We held properly on prog but now it’s just a tragedy

[west tide]

its not that much holdin and its super worth for cds cause we have everything up on the burn

gonna shave so much p3 time off

[alpine wraith]

damn we were planning to hold up to 2:45-2:50

i guess with more gear you really will do almost nothing for almost a minute if blasting

[timber basalt]

Prob dumb question but why is sectec not held for the second supercharger in dance windows since you'd use it with more stacks of danse

[limpid sage]

because you lose out on the cdr

[timber basalt]

ok cool, that was the thing it would be weighted against

[limpid sage]

ye the idea is right, we just have 2x unseen blade attached to it as well

• the cdr is too large for optimizing around danse

[timber basalt]

o true didnt think about unseen either

[vale pine]

its interesting just how much the dynamic changes with more damage and different timers

[split stirrup]

Can someone enlighten me how holding coup for CD works? Assuming im at full cp, coup and cds are rdy. Do i flag, evis(coup), dance/symbols, strike,sb, st and use 2nd coup after st or do i not use super charger on st to use 2nd coup before st?

[haughty mural]

lashga in front of me on plexus reclear

[lilac stag]

Subtlety. HoF Prog Spec champion, Reclear / Late tier menace.

[alpine wraith]

yea we are top 16 now

big dps spec

[sweet turret]

Would love a answer to that too. Do we start with 2 coups or sec tec?
And how do we manage supercharging in that

[alpine wraith]

you would flag rupture then dance stab sec tech and send the coups

just storm in between them if you have blades

and didnt proc shadowcraft twice

[sweet turret]

We mean mod fight, when holding coup before 2nd CD's come up (rupture already up)

Not normal Rotation, that is clear

[alpine wraith]

even if it is up likely it is not fully up

as you just spent 20 secs stabbing

the chances it is going to fall on dance is high unless you didnt hold coup then

[sweet turret]

That's fair

And coup + sec tec?
What's going to start?

[alpine wraith]

you sec tech first on dances with flag+blades

on normal dances you can coup sometimes to get cdr to sec tech

but otherwise you sec then then coup

[sweet turret]

Always, doesn't matter if coup is up already?
We would waste double unsern blade, don't we?

[alpine wraith]

if coup is up and sec tech is off cd you goofed up before kinda on midway dances

you kinda use sec tech on cd in the in between dances

so if coup is up and 15 secs left on sec tech you dance coup then sec tech

[sweet turret]

I didn't mean that

I mean that sec tec & coup is up, when CD's start

Then I always sec tec?

[alpine wraith]

what i mean the situation of coup up and sec tech off cd

does not happen

if you played it right

so you dont have to think

unless it is on the flag one where sec tech is up because you also held it for it

[sweet turret]

Maybe I'm understanding wrong, but don't I hold coup 20sec before flag?

[sweet turret]

Yes, that one

[sweet turret]

Okay understood

Thanks for Patience

[alpine wraith]

hmm i dont mind

spec is complicated

[sweet turret]

I love to play it, always something to adjust

M+ I feel very good with it. But raid just feels odd..

[alpine wraith]

well on raid you also change things a bit depending on fight

[sweet turret]

I looked at some Loorgs fights & that helped very much in understanding

Got some good Soulbinder & king logs in HC now

Trying to convert that to mythic now

Im playing rogue in every fight except soul hunters. I'm healer there

[split stirrup]

Am i understanding this right, I'm supposed to ST outside of dance when I'm holding for upcoming cds?

[alpine wraith]

you only really secret outside dance once or so

and very rarely

[fossil forge]

How am i supposed to play saladbar again without a hpal

I dont want to anymore 💔

They took everything from me

[muted kindle]

what was the command again for the double on use trinket? I swear i remember seeing it

[scenic plover]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[lilac stag]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[muted kindle]

thank you

[split stirrup]

Alright, thanks for the answers, appreciate it

[fossil forge]

Who got the maxxed out upgrade Route for remix sub

[mystic bough]

I am getting crazy, I am still sitting on a champion prism

I haven't seen it drop once after I got my champion prism lol

[upbeat sorrel]

Remix is taking forever to level for me did like two or three hours not even level 30

Might be doing something wrong

[chrome palm]

levelling rogue is truly painful until like 60

[placid elk]

a lot of classes are painful to level

but rogue is up top

[vale pine]

the exp gain is not extreme

[lilac stag]

I’m just going casually and like 22 on the DH. 100 days of this shit left. Hahah

[vale pine]

so leveling is still not extremely fast

thats another poit

*point

you have time

[lilac stag]

what’re you going to do after the 21st and turbo all your gear? AFK or Lemix

[runic trail]

AFK, chill and play other things

Raidlogging season baybee

[limpid sage]

it's one of the reasons I didn't have a max level rogue till last season

actually had one in SL as well, but that was a snoozefest

[topaz agate]

is coup de grace evis giving bonus cdr because of the +5 cp?

[wispy crystal]

Me too 🙁 still using champion. And if a heroic one drops a hunter or DK wins the roll

And they don't even equip it when I see them in raid like wtf

Do you guys play sub for every boss fight?

Or you swap to assas for the pure ST fights like plexus / loom / frac ?

[vale pine]

i play sub on every fight, yes

[placid elk]

if u got the gear and u want to do a bit more dmg on those 3 fights then you can swap assa

but they are easy to kill

[sinful depot]

did they nerf delve belt - was meant to be nerfed 20% in 11.2.5 but I cant find any notes on it anywhere

[vale pine]

it was in the hotfix notes

[graceful osprey]

What is assassination? I only know sub

[limpid sage]

yes but not energy for some reason iirc

[minor sorrel]

What do you thibk about our Alex Talents on alpha?

[hazy breach]

#midnight-subtlety

[minor sorrel]

Thy

[hazy breach]

Fairly sure it does give more energy

[limpid sage]

can you try it on a dummy with 1 cp

I just remember my energy getting significantly lower when pressing coup with 1 cp, which should not be the case as you should be refunded at least 30

maybe they fixed it or I'm hallucinating

[wispy crystal]

Thank you fuu. Think I'll do that too. Time to get good.

[karmic harbor]

haven't played assa since september 2nd

feels good honestly

lowkey highkey i wanna play elusiveness on dimensius

is that too troll

[hazy breach]

For what

[upbeat sorrel]

I forgot to change it from saladbar oops

Been progging all week w elusiveness I guess

[karmic harbor]

ive only seen p1 but the damage that goes out is kinda insane

[hazy breach]

Yeah and what does that have to do with elusiveness

[karmic harbor]

but maybe healers get better idk

[hazy breach]

Its all aoe damage

[karmic harbor]

can use evasion

[upbeat sorrel]

Just blame the healers if you die

[short radish]

yeah

you can feint every single bad mechanic

and healers heal the rest

cheat will save you from losing focus for a second

and standing in poop

because youre holding damage for 30 seconds

and your mind goes afk

[crystal bone]

u could argue that u dont do anything BUT mechanics for 30 sec

[jagged adder]

is there no buff for supercharger?

[rose burrow]

there is no way to properly macro lily with netherprism right?

since its 1:30 min cd

[hazy breach]

It makes your combo points blue

But its also not really something you need to track

[hazy breach]

Nop

!prism is how to use it, but you cant really macro it

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[rose burrow]

ah got it, thanks

[jagged adder]

ok the ui im using doesnt change their color and i didnt see a buff so wanted to make sure i wasnt bugged

if i have low CPs and one more GCD in dance, is it better to send a low cp coup in dance or build and send full coup outside dance? i'd assume the latter but not positive

like 4-5 cps

[wet robin]

how close do ya'll get to your single target sim on a target dummy? I'm within 5%, wondering if it should be a lot tighter than that

[wet echo]

do you get a full raid to buff you to hit the dummy and use lust for you?

[wet robin]

i filter that out in my sim

just self buffs

[wet echo]

in that case, you're better off logging/analysing your rotation than thinking about numbers

there's great variance pull-by-pull

sim is just an average of (i believe) 100k iterations

[wet robin]

I'm not necessarily asking about boss by boss numbers, I'm testing that i understand the core rotation in a vacuum

[wet echo]

being within 5% can mean you're playing perfect but having mildly bad luck

or you can be playing pretty badly but with good rng

[wet robin]

oh ok that makes sense

ah I see ok

[wet echo]

and 5-6 or even 10-20 iterations on a dummy won't really tell you how well you're playing

but as a general pointer, being within 5% is decent

[wet robin]

ok thank you for the comments