it is not a rogue only thing
#subtlety
vale pine
short radish
well barring cape/trinkets
vale pine
it can be on items and enemy mechanics too
w/e what wiki you look at
plague damage is not referenced to rogue in it
nova cairn
@tepid trellis What happened
vale pine
shadowstrike should also deal shadowstrike damage ^^
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> What happened
check my FW uptime
and u will know
- bad rng + getting all mechs
- horrible kill timer
so
short radish
unluggy
tepid trellis
it is what it is
short radish
yeah thats a terrible kill timing
tepid trellis
pull before, just as im about to send 18 stacks
cuz we had people dead so it actually lets me use last set
nova cairn
That's unlucky
tepid trellis
frac is just gonna be shit
until kill timer gets even shorter
like 30 or so sec shorter than now
tepid trellis
well yeah + buffs from renown
nova cairn
Ye
maybe
might be too much
Back to where we are again
Just have to get your team to sandbag
tepid trellis
eh dont think you are shaving 1min30 off
well we are gonna be boosting it and shit
so
should be fine
nova cairn
true ye
nova cairn
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
native zodiac
Killtimer on soulbinder is also getting criminal
Dies before the 2nd big add spawn
haughty rose
Which DPS spec feels similar to Sub Rogue in terms of min max potential?
native zodiac
didn't for me <a:RIPBOZO:1196501682176143370>
I did 9.8 without the add spawn
Imagine if we had them
vale osprey
Just have to get your team to sandbag
Just get a few boostees in and then we get decent kill timers for logs 😏
nova cairn
Ye true
strange pond
Hi guys i need help...
Can someone explain me why i am so shit on my sub gameplay pleas
I've been struggling with the spec for a month now and I'm getting nowhere.
native zodiac
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fringe palm
eh dont think you are shaving 1min30 off
pay your pala for autuum
nocturne birch
pull before, just as im about to send 18 stacks
Just got back - what are the "stacks" we're sending? Is it a trinket?
tepid trellis
pay your pala for autuum
true
tepid trellis
Just got back - what are the "stacks" we're sending? Is it a trinket?
prism stacks
nocturne birch
Oh, didn't play this season yet. Prism is a trinket stack buff?
tepid trellis
yep
nocturne birch
Ty
weary tree
frac is just gonna be shit
Lol yeah I have same shit. Kill timers are so detrimental for everything
Fking 4:28 kill time
rip last cds
scenic plover
Do we know if turbo boost is gonna have uncapped crests day one
fringe palm
should be
keen dome
nova cairn
Dwarf vs Mag orc is like 0.2% isn't it?
stray talon
What’s the most correct sequence if there is one for the second dance during flag/blades CD when you have full combo points, symbols, coup, sectec and dance ready? Do you still dance SoD sectec into coup or should you dance coup storm SoD coup into sectec? Might be a stupid question or too small to matter but just curious
nova cairn
What’s the most correct sequence if there is one for the second dance during fla...
Sec first coup 2nd
limpid sage
Dwarf vs Mag orc is like 0.2% isn't it?
ye
fossil forge
actually think i read somewhere that they only increase item lvl and uncap crests later on
Could be fake info though
nova cairn
actually think i read somewhere that they only increase item lvl and uncap crest...
I think token is late 100%
not sure about crests tho
fossil forge
Tauren supremacy
nova cairn
Dwarf atm
nova cairn
Race change to male panda
limpid sage
ye same
nova cairn
Male panda
plush roost
based
nova cairn
is giga animations
fossil forge
Which race
limpid sage
though fractillus feels worse sometimes as maghar
nova cairn
Feint as male panda goes hard
limpid sage
because you can't put up fw anytime you want
sending coup on a target without fw feels so bad
nova cairn
My shoes take up half my body
limpid sage
fossil forge
Bro is size 12 wearing 15s
limpid sage
that's actually banger
maiden oar
ty
fossil forge
Bro actually got ts on
limpid sage
hella drip
maiden oar
hes a handsome young man
limpid sage
there is no inflatable shoes mog or something?
fossil forge
Dont have a pic of my tmog on my phone unfortunately
maiden oar
since i swapped off xiv to this game in 11.1
fossil forge
i am rocking the tauren escaping from mental asylum drip
maiden oar
well i did delves in 11.0 so i got some good funny hats from there
but all the nice df trading posts i never got
maiden oar
perhaps
fossil forge
To finish the mog
maiden oar
do they exist
lucid jackal
Been using this rogue transmog all expansion tbh
fossil forge
Not sure
chrome palm
the antorus tier stays on
bright solstice
honest to god this should be reportable
maiden oar
???
fossil forge
Is there any way to check ur tmog from phone
peak jetty
pull before, just as im about to send 18 stacks
@tepid trellis i read your current logs and you seem to always get your Coup de Grace right after your dance, symbols SecTec. What is the indicator for that? 3 stacks? or how can i guarentee those 2 CdG casts in my mini cds?
chrome palm
armory
maiden oar
click on armory from raider.io
click save char img
armory search on mobile is impossinle
i see the one guy named armory
chrome palm
you can try googling your wow character
maiden oar
true
fossil forge
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> i read your current logs and you seem to always get your Co...
after sectech you are 100% guaranteed atleast 2 stacks of Escalating blades from your next 2 strikes
native zodiac
maiden oar
big fan
bright solstice
tepid trellis
so if you have 2 stacks going into dance you 100% will get it
if you have 1-2 you need a tierset proc or a natty proc from hero talents icd or reset
lucid jackal
<@83652604344664064> i read your current logs and you seem to always get your Co...
Lol
peak jetty
so if you have 2 stacks going into dance you 100% will get it
if you have 1-2 yo...
tyvm!
lucid jackal
Stealthi gonna get asked till the end of time
fossil forge
After some gaming the mythic sigil is kinda bonkers
give me dinars bro i want to buy outlaw gear
fossil forge
my outlaw gear is looking stacked
i have the mythic ring from hardmode + sigil so far
nova cairn
@limpid sage ????
maiden oar
i feel like dinars best use would just be to save me from m+ vault gamba
i gotta learn outlaw
not being able to play every spec my class has makes me mad
peak jetty
Either your wrist health or outlaw. Sometimes you gotta choose.
limpid sage
<@411623333835177996> ????
hi
maiden oar
hehe
fossil forge
Mechagon ptsd 💔
limpid sage
<@411623333835177996> ????
why aren't you hitting the dummies with me
maiden oar
its so funny how stealth can spin them
limpid sage
so if you have 2 stacks going into dance you 100% will get it
if you have 1-2 yo...
wait do you wait with sending dances till you have 2 stacks of escalating blades
nova cairn
why aren't you hitting the dummies with me
I am nowand then
tepid trellis
wait do you wait with sending dances till you have 2 stacks of escalating blades
i do not
peak jetty
i do not
Is there any good rule of thumb for sending dances. i know its 2 or 3 between SB. but isnt it worth sometimes waiting for escalating blades ?
tepid trellis
i hide alot of stuff, but that isnt one of them
limpid sage
short radish
same
fossil forge
we might need to go spread misinformation into the assa channel
runic trail
we might need to go spread misinformation into the assa channel
We spread enough of that on our own
I'll have you know
fossil forge
Little bit of tomfoolery goes along the way
short radish
i purposly cut out the part where you said this is a joke
in the hopes that someone really does fall for it
upper narwhal
Macabremaxxing new meta 
sly shore
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
rose marten
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
vocal haven
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fossil forge
i see what you did there
do this opener before vault for 10% luck increase
Fuu approved
Prepot gives another 10
vale pine
XD
tall girder
im gonna do that crazy opener on a mythic trial
fossil forge
Crazy opener into crazy bench combo
fathom adder
vale pine
undead for sure
native zodiac
Go gnome
maiden oar
id play panda if racials didnt exist because theyre the funniest
but dwarf is also funny and has a good racial
so its w/e
sly cove
Gentlemen has the mythic plus build changed i see alot of people playing with rotten and CB again?
upbeat sorrel
Tauren is bis
fossil forge
TAUREN SUPREMACY
placid elk
Gentlemen has the mythic plus build changed i see alot of people playing with ro...
depends who you look at.
if you look at ppl doing 19s and 20s they swap talents for certain situations they have encountered that weren't visible in lower keys.
sly cove
Fuus current mplus build still the goer for lower keys then i guess
fossil forge
FINALITY PROPAGANDA @lilac stag TellEM
vale pine
maghar orc is best due to the dps steroid
frigid aurora
Maghar orc is the best because theyre just super cool
vale pine
Fuus current mplus build still the goer for lower keys then i guess
yes, you could opt out of replicating if stuff just dies quickly
fossil forge
Meld for tfd maxxing
vale pine
too much for what is essentially a 0.00...1 cent database interaction
placid elk
i get more dps if i buy a kebab and a coke
kind wasp
vale pine
to be fair
diffrence between undead and the top race is somewhere between 1-2 % dps
thats quite a bit for only race
i know bloodmallet displays it in a way it looks like nothing
karmic harbor
damn i play undead wtf
spring pumice
dont on use racials also get a little bit more value if theres a damage amp during bossfights?
maiden oar
i feel so pressured to swap to maghar sometimes
placid elk
i think it flattens out overall i havent done the math
remember when mechagnome was top simming race?
maiden oar
no im going to stay dwarf
karmic harbor
im race changing to maghar
nova cairn
damn i play undead wtf
Get the wallet out buddy
fossil forge
Though
maiden oar
fossil forge
Wait for race change sale it has been a while it will be on sale soon again
karmic harbor
Get the wallet out buddy
kinda outrageous im ngl
nova cairn
It's wild
shadow lance
Playing Dwarf and using gleeful glamour is the life I decided to have
karmic harbor
😭
fossil forge
3 kebabs or race change
placid elk
3 kebabs
fossil forge
Definitely
nova cairn
I bet if you bribed someone at blizzard
with a kebab
they'd give you a free one
So you're up 2 kebabs
fossil forge
Its not like ur paying monthly sub and a yearly 80eur donation
And they want 20 for racechange
fossil forge
Damn
nova cairn
You're feeding them ideas
fossil forge
Let not
vagrant fulcrum
(ruby is the spy)
fossil forge
Give them ideas lowk
nova cairn
(ruby is the spy)
fossil forge
Hello blizz why my nasa pc 40fps in raid
vale pine
don't think a dev reads the chats
vale pine
i doubt
vale pine
but maybe, you ideally play all specs
karmic harbor
hello fellow sub rogues
vale pine
They def don't play assa
whats wrong with assa?
nova cairn
whats wrong with assa?
The bugs
fossil forge
Wow and LoL same issue the devs dont play their game
vale pine
sub has as much bugs, partly more impactful ones
we just don't make a big fuzz about it
short radish
because we've been successfully conditioned into just accepting shit
vale pine
i don't think so
its just easy to create outrage
if you like to do that
it is just a very common pattern we see recently int he communities
e.g. the best example is the paladin discord closing discord channels
placid elk
this xpac feels abandoned. my bank is still in french since patch launched.
i feel like they work on remix and midnight
runic hull
is it only worth using double on use with lily or araz? I have peacemaker and am holding anywher from 15-18 on netherprism, I just feel like I do sooo much less dmg without it, only peacemaker buff doesnt seem great, should I be sending netherprism sooner too?
placid elk
i heard some gossip that they will fix some classes for upcoming MDI
alpine wraith
yea that one goes flying above people's head
we can make as much outrage as dozens of us
vs hundreds of thousands of paladins
vale pine
complaining is diffrent from creating outrage
a good example is wowhead when you compare posts of diffrent people for feedback
some will actively use strong languarge and ask people to riot on all platforms
while others will just highlight shorcommings and try to keep the general post positive
doing the first one is asking for outrage, while the 2nd one allows people to form an opinion themselves
you can decide what you like more, i am perosnally not a fan of outrage
short radish
true
but then also
look at #assassination
and whispyr melting down over people melting down over bugs there
vale pine
if you create outrage
you will get that
you basically discribe the consequence of a certain action
the new bug is actually interessting
because fixing the bugs would widen the gap between rogue specs even more
fallow nimbus
What's the new bug?
fallow nimbus
Ok, i have that channel muted
vale pine
but what this means is assassiantion does, besides all the bugs
which should be probably 8 or 10%
outperform subtlety and partly outlaw still
placid elk
still will be beaten by a bm hunter that afk and send his pets
fallow nimbus
Fix bugs, nerf by 15% would seem fair 
placid elk
more like
attempt to fix bugs.
fix a few
create 10 more bugs
vale pine
i mean
just to be clear
the deathstalker bug with mark was fixed for subtlety
in DF
then they unfixed it to fix something for assassiantion
short radish
unfixed 
vale pine
which basically was irrelevant within less than a patch because the problem got removed/reworked
but did not unfix or revert
For what its worth, bugs atm will likely not get fixed
there is a possibility of seeing some last minute fixes for .5
but i would assume all man power is spend on the new xpac
short radish
yeah i dont think anyone should expect any bug fixes for rogue to happen
between now and midnight
unless its a positive dps bug
sly shore
If Rogue sees zero love in midnight alpha/beta
it might be a reroll or quit angle
ngl
placid elk
true
short radish
it might be a reroll or quit angle
uhuh sure, see you n ext year anyway though
sly shore
ofc I have stockholm syndrome
nova cairn
placid elk
there's no other xpansion that made me reroll as hard as this one. the reason i don't is because i dont have too much time to play and i stick to rogue based on class loyalty
short radish
okay this might be the stockholm syndrome speaking but
bugs aside
and balance aside
sub rogue is so fucking comfy this expac
karmic harbor
outperform subtlety and partly outlaw still
outlaw has the same bug
placid elk
even assa is comfy, dont know about outlaw
short radish
outlaw is never comfy
when was the last time outlaw got brought to a RWF final boss
placid elk
when the last boss will be a 3 target cleave
which rarely happens because its usually one big bad guy with adds
short radish
council final boss
one day
(please let this never happen)
give me my single target fights
placid elk
yeah but blizz mindset is why kill 3 bad guys at once when you can kill them 1by1 in 3 different raids
vale pine
outlaw has the same bug
yes, but less damage impacting bugs
placid elk
imagine you fight xalatath, kil jaeden and sylvanas 3 target cleave 
native zodiac
sub rogue is so fucking comfy this expac
Since 10.0.5 it feels insanely good imo
And this tierset with double coup made it even better
native zodiac
My only problem is the coup 1.2 gcd and the refund on it
Then it would be a banger
short radish
we just need some QoL and attention
short radish
My only problem is the coup 1.2 gcd and the refund on it
yeah but blizzards design for sub is delayed damage or something
so really
we're going to blast next expac becasue of that
native zodiac
Hopefully we see some nice talent additions yeah
alpine wraith
sub is a burst spec
that for some reason has burst that last almost 30 secs
and needs to ramp
that is kinda what blizz likes now
vale pine
its easier for them
alpine wraith
oh and uses 5 cds
vale pine
because they can control classes to have one of a certain amount of dmaage patterns
alpine wraith
they have heavy ptsd from MoP/WoD sub or venthyr boomy
and will never let it happen again
where with 1 or 2 people you could do a whole raid mechanic
and everyone else could do other things
because of the dmg profile
they did noy like that AT ALL
native zodiac
spoilers theres none
nova cairn
nova cairn
what toy
nova cairn
ahh yeye
native zodiac
there is one that puts something on the ground
that aswell but it has an 8hour cd
sly shore
https://tenor.com/view/assnaadam-bndyz-gif-22835015
A true patriot boshhhhhh
nova cairn
A true patriot boshhhhhh
YOU KNOW IT
nova cairn
You actually go gnome?
native zodiac
i do
nova cairn
Also do you lose it when you die
native zodiac
nope it stays
you can go gleeful glamour > recalibrator > gleefull glamour for a raid night
nova cairn
Broken
native zodiac
and will never let it happen again
coming back to this
i feel like blizzard tends to go back on what they say a bunch
they wanted no more funnel and now look at demon hunter/arcane
it will eventually just go full circle again
bright solstice
sly shore
Because he deserves it <:smile:1005573854032314499>
He gets railed for voice cracks CONSTANTLY
sly shore
I have a great soundboard of one <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
send
lilac stag
spoilers theres none
Lies. @nova cairn
native zodiac
Lies. <@168852450835562496>
plain void
Is coup's damage dynamic? If shadow dance ends before all the damage goes off does the latter hits do less damage?
sectec's is dynamic right?
alpine wraith
coup is also dynamic
placid elk
got some questions:
for soulbinder the reason we delay cds is so we don't get assigned orbs/lines during them?
another reason would be to get cds back when the big adds spawn?
cursive island
I think you flag first Add spawn. At this point, you want Flag on the Multiple adds spawn at the center 2 times
Just SD on normal adds spawn
vale osprey
Does anyone have an expert sim config so I can sim some stuff for dimmy myth?
vale pine
can probably just use patchwerk
haughty rose
I think you flag first Add spawn. At this point, you want Flag on the Multiple a...
on mythic? if i don't full send my CD's right at pull the moment they come up i ain't doing good dps.
weak hamlet
You can SD+Symbols once, and CD
Do they not BL on pull? Or is that just what pugs do
vale pine
Best animations in the game
female undead > panda
graceful crown
Cannibalism is a fun racial and you dont have to pay to have a combat racial but the new undead model looks booty cheeks compared to the classic
Fem undead just prances around like shes in a flower field
I will only agree if you have a marge Simpson undead fem then that is god tier
formal schooner
hi hpal here why is my rogue asking for autumn and when do I cast it on him
formal schooner
CDR on major cooldowns so I assume its for alignment purposes
amber sedge
!trinkets
graceful crown
CDR on major cooldowns so I assume its for alignment purposes
Oh that's huge
Sub rogue does insane damage every cd
Outside of CDs we are kind of dog water
formal schooner
yeah but whats the diff between no autumn and autumn on saladbar and dimmy alignment wise
graceful crown
Unless it does a funny move where it desyncs flag and shadow daggers
formal schooner
like am I holding autumn for him
placid elk
Fem undead just prances around like shes in a flower field
yeah but have you done an eviscerate or envenom? 
graceful crown
I would need to summon the knowledge of someone who actually plays with hpaladins to answer that but on saladbar I imagine you help him or her maintain good spike damage and more frequently since its awkward on him when he enters his intermission
I've found myself 10 secs left on CDs when he enters damage phase
I imagine that helps with that without sacrificing too much cds and dances
graceful crown
yeah but have you done an eviscerate or envenom? <:PogO:1160145144872435792>
Yes and it looks silly when you do it 10 times in a row and it lags behind
Pandas are giga animated and feel smooth af during combos
Everything else feels stiff to me
But
Counter argument
Zandalari troll, as much as I hate trolls for how ugly they are, has the best evisc animation by far
north schooner
you can see here https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/nexusking-salhadaar and here https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/dimensius-the-alldevouring when sub rogues usually get autumn. On dimmy it's at 5:00ish but on saladbar it depends, usually 45-50s in though
I don't know how well that aligns with the normal seasons cycling
cosmic oracle
you can see here <https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/nexusking-salhad...
Yo this site is clutch thanks didnt know about this
Ive been using shadow blades at 18 seconds but most people using it at 23 on araz, our guild doesnt displace the mobs into the circles so im trying to work out the best time to open
graceful crown
Speaking of Araz hoe tf does one parse on that shit
It's the only blue parse I have
cosmic oracle
Hope you dont get adds
on your open
well thats me
guess it wouldnt be as bad if we just had knock backs
idk
its such a juicy fight if we get lucky with adds
limpid sage
<@411623333835177996> Strange question
shadowflame
can't get it anymore
required 1800 pvp rating or something in df s2
or 2100 not sure
fossil forge
are the any farmable decent ones
limpid sage
sinwrath and berserking are decent I think?
raw pebble
!wa
wicked joltBOT
north schooner
Screen Captured
fossil forge
Got a even better question
north schooner
people still can't win+shift+S 
fossil forge
What daggers yall rocking
nova cairn
nova cairn
What daggers yall rocking
Renathal Ceremonial daggers
fossil forge
Im using the raid ones atm
had the night blade equipped for a bit
Feel like theres 0 good daggers compared to swords
north schooner
ghostblades 
fossil forge
ghostblades <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
Can you get these though
north schooner
not anymore no
lilac stag
Do you mean a straight dagger, with a glow enchant… which there are.
stone wave
Question: If I use 1.5 minute Trinket and Netherprism at the same time, which one takes priority? Or is it better not to use the 1.5-minute trinket together with Netherprism?
shy scarab
Question: If I use 1.5 minute Trinket and Netherprism at the same time, which on...
depends which one you click on first bro xD if u have a macro if you have 13 first its gonna use 13
north schooner
you would need 2 binds to use prism with a 90s trinket
shy scarab
What daggers yall rocking
using the ones from black temple
stone wave
Oh, I meant the priority of what to use and when during the rotation.
north schooner
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
nova cairn
THIS GOES HARD
feral radish
!log
hushed pollen
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
tight fjord
how many ruptures do we use after flag and before dance/backstab
cedar willow
using the ones from black temple
What illusion is this?
shy scarab
What illusion is this?
Glorious tyranny, 2.1k pvp rating in mop. cant get it anymore i think
cedar willow
Looks good
slate marlin
Too bad, bc it looks amazing
Out of the obtainable ones i think power torrent is just s tier
shy scarab
is that the green one?
slate marlin
No its the one that changes from orange to purple
shy scarab
my only reason to play on particle density on ultra is to showoff my wep illusions lul
dry plank
my only reason to play on particle density on ultra is to showoff my wep illusio...
pvp weapon ench?
shy scarab
yea from mop
finite sequoia
<#226403529894526987> for ratings. Not enough purple for this channel.
oh, thanks!
snow birch
Eyo, I have a quick question, I'm working on my 3rd craft on sub rogue (a neck) can I put an embellishment on it even though I already have it on bracers and weapon ?
fossil forge
using the ones from black temple
These pretty fye
lilac stag
Eyo, I have a quick question, I'm working on my 3rd craft on sub rogue (a neck) ...
You can only have 2 embellishments equipped.
spark plinth
Can we still stack prism before the key goes?
errant steeple
ornate lake
Amazing things are happening on prog runs
upper narwhal
Can we still stack prism before the key goes?
you can but you have to be in a loading screen when the bubble goes down at the start of the dungeon or you lose the stacks
granite river
Yo, what’s the diff between average cast and average hit, in wcl
muted kindle
is it easy enough to swap between the rogue specs?
vale pine
you can easy switch between sub and sin
subtlety only wants low amounts of haste, so both have similar gearing
outlaw however needs a 1h weapon, so switching is a bit more difficult
muted kindle
yeah makes sense thanks!
vale pine
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
^ you can look at simulations and see what trinkets are good on all 3, but sin/sub is likely similar
signal pewter
Hello. Can someone please help me with some log analysis for a friend?
muted kindle
^ you can look at simulations and see what trinkets are good on all 3, but sin/s...
cheers!
azure mauve
bro sub is my safe space
spark plinth
you can but you have to be in a loading screen when the bubble goes down at the ...
So you get out at 3sec of start timer?
I just did that and stack disappeared when i entered again, bubble was not up anymore
Seem fixed
granite river
I hope they fixed bc I’m really not tryna do that
fair cloak
Why sub Sims so low
On single target
Im 714 simming for 4700 and 5100 assa
5%haste
hazy breach
Because sub does terrible singletarget
lilac stag
rogue in general is shit ST dmg
fair cloak
Ok
lilac stag
it be what it be
fair cloak
I mean not ok fxck
Very not ok 🙁
But u cant have it all
All the bugs and damage
Gotta choose
short radish
Very not ok 🙁
yes we can
we can pick both having all the bugs
and none of the damage
lilac stag
all these newbies. they just dont know
shadow lance
rogue in general is shit ST dmg
Make sense when you got free cleave...
Imagine being top ST dps chart and having the free cleave
short radish
yeah
lilac stag
Make sense when you got free cleave...
explain to dk
short radish
that'd be crazy
fair cloak
I would give away cleave for bonkers st
lilac stag
go play feral
short radish
^
shadow lance
^
short radish
you press 3 buttons in opener
and just afk
then do nothing until its time to convoke again
lilac stag
and bitch if you dont get PI
lilac stag
i beat an arcane mage in 13 HoA. I was proud of myself
short radish
great defensives
great mobility
brings lust
like 5 different CC
fuck i hate mages
holy shit
lilac stag
they're above the 13 key paygrade
shadow lance
Always dying or 0 damages
fair cloak
I actually made alt geared it and went mythic loomithar
shadow lance
Even in 16 they suck
fair cloak
I was doing 3.2 m dps kekw
lilac stag
who is taking a rogue to a 16. i smell a lie
wispy crystal
Always dying or 0 damages
Wait till you see BM hunter
finite sequoia
rogues should honestly have more utility 
wispy crystal
They are so bad most of them
shadow lance
Same with BM
finite sequoia
makes so much sense for the class fantasy
shadow lance
who is taking a rogue to a 16. i smell a lie
My tank buddy and I
Doing our own keys
lilac stag
anyways, welcome to rogue. enjoy your stay for however short it is
wispy crystal
fair cloak
Its been 9 years
short radish
remember, it's not a bug. it's a feature.
short radish
yeah mythic and heroic is a very big variance
like if you 98 parse in heroic
youre probably top 2-500 or something
fair cloak
But yeah doing 3.4m as arcane sucked, def need to practice
lilac stag
but then in mythic
we're also getting into weird kill time range
fair cloak
Altho we killed right before my cds
And stacked prism
But ye mythic seemw rough
Like my damage is nerfed
Or some shiet
fickle mason
Do yall use Shadow Dance/Symbols charges on the intermissions on Fel Hunters?
cursive island
Do yall use Shadow Dance/Symbols charges on the intermissions on Fel Hunters?
Hm no
short radish
Do yall use Shadow Dance/Symbols charges on the intermissions on Fel Hunters?
look at lorgs
but yeah nah
cursive island
Send when they are packed
shadow lance
I guess they were gonna overcap something
short radish
#8 wouldnt have
shadow lance
Maybe sod?
olive jacinth
Hey guys, yesterday we did you second kill on loomithar and my logs were worse than the first. overall it is fine as we are doing progress but could anyone take a look at the log if there is anything obvious i fucked up? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2nbjRpcTyrFDqPYx?fight=22&type=damage-done&source=17 Thank you 🙂
short radish
Hey guys, yesterday we did you second kill on loomithar and my logs were worse t...
dont hold
you lost a cast of flag
because you held
if you sent off cd
you could have gotten one at 3, 4.5 and 6
wispy crystal
for mythic+ , most people prefer running thistle tea or cold blood?
olive jacinth
dont hold
Okay thats good to know. I need to know the fight length to get that right. Have to keep that in mind on araz prog. Thanks 
wispy crystal
for mythic+ , most people prefer running thistle tea or cold blood?
Any one have preference? Cold blood feels quite energy starved sometimes
sweet turret
Sup, can you guys tell me why in 20+ keys the Sub rogue is taken the rotten instead of Finality
lilac stag
no good reason
short radish
because 
plush jackal
hey, i play sub rogue for some time, but im clueless, because everytime i have different performance always, is there any way i could track my performance through spell or idk to see what im doing wrong? except like logging, because even when im doing my best i cant get over like 60parses on raid, maybe 707ilvl would be the issue but idk
shadow lance
Sup, can you guys tell me why in 20+ keys the Sub rogue is taken the rotten inst...
In 20+ ? I see only 4* keys timed in 20s as sub rofl
And the reason is just pref and stuff dependant
Less crit you got, more rotten sim high
plush cove
hey, i play sub rogue for some time, but im clueless, because everytime i have d...
ilvl is kinda irrelevant bc you can check your ilvl parses and see performance ocmpared to people within 3 ilvl
swift tinsel
ilvl parse is also kinda irrelevant bc its hugely depenedent upon what gear you actually have
plush cove
true
plush jackal
in raid im like 21%crit 1% haste 100mastery 30-31versq
practically could say im full biss
swift tinsel
would recommend looking at your cd windows in logs to see if you're executing them correctly
both in the abilities used and when in the fight you use them
wet echo
ilvl is kinda irrelevant bc you can check your ilvl parses and see performance o...
ilvl parses are generally a very bad indication of anything
swift tinsel
that screenshot gives no context
plush jackal
yeah thought so
swift tinsel
which is important
plush jackal
is there any way to give yall better info?
plush cove
yeah, send the log
fleet wharf
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
swift tinsel
do !log
quick check of your soulbinder log you sent flag on pull, you wanna hold that for first add spawn
then again ~2mins
plush jackal
never did anything with logs so im trying to find my way around atm
swift tinsel
def wanna fix this
plush jackal
how?dont you just pop big cds with small cds?
or do i pop flagellation with small cds and on max stacks you pop blades?
swift tinsel
refer to this #subtlety message
second bullet point
you want your cooldown sequence to look like that
plush jackal
aaaaaaaaa okay
plush jackal
one year of muscle memory will be hard to rewrite haha
but very much appreciated
but why dont i pop cold blood on first ST?
swift tinsel
just sit on dummies for an hour or so and it'll be second nature in no time
plush jackal
but only on second
swift tinsel
bc second has more flawless form stacks
and if you can fit it in first dance with TFD its quite strong
plush jackal
but only on +9 targets no?
swift tinsel
nah 4
hazy breach
4+
swift tinsel
my name is unironic
plush jackal
ah make senes xDDD
vale pine
!aoe
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
plush jackal
because ive seen on the talents that the eviscerate during that one proc has cap on +9 targets
so i thought on +9 targets you use bp
plush jackal
yeah thats some thing that min maxers noticed as im quite casual
never looked at logs max on analyzer that you can use
but when i started sub rogue i didnt even had that cause sub was only one spec that wasnt able to be analyzed xD
so i just used rule for all clases. pop big and small and pray
plush jackal
__**General Gist of the Aoe rotation**__
- At **ALL** target counts cast Coup de...
also note to this
dont i want to spread ignore armor through shuriken storm?
for that 30% bonus armor shred
like use it 2/3 times at start of the pack
short radish
one year of muscle memory will be hard to rewrite haha
Make a new bind for sectech+cb
Make current bind just sectech
plush jackal
ye i had that
last gate
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
when i click it its not casting my CB
it just throw naked Sectec
any idea what to do?
short radish
```#showtooltip Secret Technique
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
```
whe...
!cbbug
wicked joltBOT
Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:
- Relogging.
You can use ths weakaura to get a reminder: >Open on Wago.io <
cold kernel
it just throw naked Sectec
sounds hot
plush jackal
remove the ST behind showtooltip no?
lost karma
On salad bar you guys run cheat or elusiveness?
short radish
On salad bar you guys run cheat or elusiveness?
Elu for prog
Cheat only works in p3
lost karma
Gotcha I figured
last gate
__**Cold Blood bug:**__
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fate...
ah make sense lol
relog didnt helped
fk
lost karma
Also I seen most people using the increase heal incoming talent, over the heal when using finisher
swift tinsel
dont i want to spread ignore armor through shuriken storm?
you'll be spreading it with storm as the tank gathers and you're applying ruptures
lost karma
I feel like I been living more not sure if fake or not
swift tinsel
with your crit plus talents that add crit chance to storm you'll have good coverage
plush jackal
you'll be spreading it with storm as the tank gathers and you're applying ruptur...
so my aoe for few first seconds is flagellation+ shuriken + rupture and then i start using the blades etc
short radish
Also I seen most people using the increase heal incoming talent, over the heal w...
Doesnt matter
last gate
Also I seen most people using the increase heal incoming talent, over the heal w...
you arent spamming finishers 😄 (without dance)
lost karma
True honestly ty
last gate
any tips about araz?
swift tinsel
so my aoe for few first seconds is flagellation+ shuriken + rupture and then i s...
you'll send flag once the tank stops moving and everything is gathered
short radish
Both dont really matter
short radish
any tips about araz?
Look at cds on lorgs
swift tinsel
flag stacks very quickly
short radish
Then copy it
plush jackal
you'll send flag once the tank stops moving and everything is gathered
aaaaaaa okay okay thank you guys
helped me alot
i will return in few days
short radish
Also you are competing with healers on pylon damage. Gl
plush jackal
haha
swift tinsel
yeah I don't apologize for my araz damage lol
I kill adds and hit boss during vuln and the rest is everyone else's problem
plush jackal
and one last question, i pop trinket with flag or blades?
plush jackal
i use lily and unyelding
winged prawn
can someone explain to me why my coup is dealing 40 Mio less then Impyr's ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cdqfV14gbrmwzDy3?fight=25&type=damage-done&phase=4&start=28488384&end=28548712&source=14 Mine
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XaNmtqAQVTjzB32Y?fight=57&type=damage-done&phase=4&start=13406156&end=13467922&source=263 Impyr
last gate
Look at cds on lorgs
i havent tried araz yet
first cds are sec 25/30ish is that the time that it spawns alot of mobs?
so we cd and melt them?
limpid sage
i havent tried araz yet
first cds are sec 25/30ish is that the time that it spaw...
21 you send flag
short radish
so we cd and melt them?
Yes but you start ramping before they spawn
last gate
Yes but you start ramping before they spawn
Ah
last gate
21 you send flag
so on 21 we send it
and when they spawn im at 30 stacks got it
limpid sage
You time it so you get the cb sectec as the big guy spawns
winged prawn
can someone explain to me why my coup is dealing 40 Mio less then Impyr's ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cdqfV14gbrmwzDy3?fight=25&type=damage-done&phase=4&start=28488384&end=28548712&source=14 Mine
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XaNmtqAQVTjzB32Y?fight=57&type=damage-done&phase=4&start=13406156&end=13467922&source=263 Impyr
sly shore
@fringe palm why is it doing so much less please find out for this person
(his prism is mythic)
it's like 8k agi difference on use lol
winged prawn
i see
wet robin
im choosing to be brave, be gentle, be kind.
I fucking 0 parsed on this fractillus pull. I died on opener, and I see a double symbols send fat finger, but there must be A LOT more im fucking up.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QtBTnCaR7jJxgzFP?fight=24&type=damage-done&source=24
strange harness
Sometimes my second coup of the grace has 5 CP but i have danse macabre
What is better get 7 CP and lose the danse macabre or use it on 5CP?
karmic harbor
im choosing to be brave, be gentle, be kind.
I fucking 0 parsed on this fractil...
potting on pull when you have prism is a little troll
you got 4 gcds in that double sod sd
chrome fern
im choosing to be brave, be gentle, be kind.
I fucking 0 parsed on this fractil...
i see you dance right as you begin your flag, you should try hold it for the gcd after to make it easier to get the gcd's inside it
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
chrome fern
a few of your flag windows you have a bunch of downtime between dances
wet robin
im glad you said that, helps me remember that on fights with any downtime, i surprised to see I don't have two SD's smoothly ready for big CD's
chrome fern
i dont send a dance if the cd on flag is 45s
wet robin
ah great, ok. I always send 2 SD's between big send, which sounds like its a big problem
thanks for the rule of thumb
chrome fern
i think stealthi said the cheat mode is that it alternates, between 1 and 2 between flag
coulda been eleem tho
wet robin
oh shit ok
chrome fern
i dont recall who
wet robin
i dont send a dance if the cd on flag is 45s
im literally going to build in an airhorn WA lol
wispy crystal
How important is the 3% buff in MO. Just realized I'm behind my entire raid group because I started the raid late and only at level 5 while everyone else is at level 7
sly shore
it's 3%
sturdy moat
about a 3% difference give or take
if you wipe at like .2% then it would be your fault but it doesn't really matter
wispy crystal
Yeah you guys are right I'm probably 3% behind assuming similar gear
wispy crystal
I feel like I can barely keep up with the frost DKs even on single target though
sly shore
rogue st is shit
sturdy moat
theyre a strong class and sub doesnt do great st
we do good on quick adds to kill like forgeweaver or nexus king
wispy crystal
Frost DK and Fury war are probably top single target right ?
wispy crystal
we do good on quick adds to kill like forgeweaver or nexus king
I do pretty well on soulbinder. That's the one fight I can out DPS everyone else
Plexus sentinel just feels miserable looking at the damage meter
sturdy moat
yea that is a good sub fight as well
left ledge
Frost dk is just a better sub rogue
sturdy moat
but MM and arcane are gonna do the most st usually
wispy crystal
but MM and arcane are gonna do the most st usually
Feels unfair that rogue a traditionally strong ST target class isn't that strong on ST
Why do mages and hunters get all the love
signal pewter
yeah, send the log
left ledge
Well that’s what happens when they force all our abilities to also be aoe
How can they make us better in ST
When our ST is our aoe
fleet wharf
Why do mages and hunters get all the love
have you looked at player#s for those classes?
wispy crystal
have you looked at player#s for those classes?
Sorry what do you mean
fleet wharf
like population size haha
left ledge
Sorry what do you mean
He means people don’t play rogue
wispy crystal
Oh rogue and warlocks have the least if I recall
fleet wharf
its evoker. locks are somewhat popular, no?
wispy crystal
Hunters are so face roll my goodness 🙀
lucid jackal
its evoker. locks are somewhat popular, no?
Not really
distant canopy
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
sturdy moat
Feels unfair that rogue a traditionally strong ST target class isn't that strong...
I mean sin is in a worse spot than us now
The ST spec doesnt even do that much more
And any fight with adds sub takes over
tepid trellis
sub needs single target buffs
fleet wharf
sub needs single target buffs
Will we get one though?
tepid trellis
50/50
vagrant sinew
raccoon propaganda
limpid sage
is there anyway to play without CB?
i always forget..
Ye you can play tea
tepid trellis
raccoon propaganda
is it tho?
fleet wharf
sounds like outlaw needs a buff
tepid trellis
outlaw needs a rework
limpid sage
But it’s not as good as cb for sniping and it’s only for m+ imo
tepid trellis
cesspit spec
limpid sage
Maybe if we had ovinaxx as a raidboss
fleet wharf
Why was sub not good on ovinax? I wasn't playing rogue then
limpid sage
Ye didn’t you play deathstalker in s1 as well?
fleet wharf
I thought deathstalker only for pure ST bosses
tepid trellis
well you could play both on ovinaxx
fleet wharf
and that was before a bug killed the spec or something?
tepid trellis
very similar output
limpid sage
I swapped from fury to sub in s2 so I have no clue what deathstalker does
tepid trellis
best it stays that way
deft igloo
If I'm using the Lily of the Eternal Weave as a trinket because I don't have the 2 on-use trinkets yet, does it make sense to stack more vers/crit/haste over mastery or should I still stack mastery?
tepid trellis
do what the sim tells you to
limpid sage
Ye sim it, but it obviously devalues mastery a little
And can’t really get to a point of dr where it makes sense to take haste as sub
deft igloo
Gotcha
Also one more question, is there sort of a general explanation for why I might do more Eviscerate damage over my Coup De Grace damage in comparison to other sub rogues at a similar ilvl?
tepid trellis
no 4 set or you are looking at details which groups it weirdly in the breakdown sometimes
deft igloo
I was looking at warcraft logs and my Eviscerates were nearly equal to it and I do have the 4 set
I figured it would have something to do with how i'm dealing with unseen blade procs, but I'm still trying to grasp that concept cuz it's not something I can really track super well
cursive wyvern
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tepid trellis
breakdown should be
coup
sectech
evis
deft igloo
Yea my breakdown looks like evis, coup, sectech or coup, evis, sectech
fleet wharf
try !log, kind of hard to troubleshoot with just breakdown descriptions
deft igloo
!log
strange harness
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
amber sedge
we only use araz with shadowblade right?
hazy breach
Yes
amber sedge
and prism when? sorry i try sub right now :D
hazy breach
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
warm marlin
@hazy breach I hate you i was watching my blades duration all night watching myself fail to get 16 gcds in so many times 🥀
Time for more macros 
hazy breach
I checked mine and its mostly fine just using it manually before, only gets cursed if i get all 4 coups
But yeah
Surely its gonna get fixed right?
warm marlin
The 4 coups are guaranteed with prep though right
Assuming you don’t burn one from first sectec you have 4 from disorienting guaranteed every blades
upbeat oracle
whats prep