subtlety

[tribal blade]

mm yeah this list has feint but no info

[lucid jackal]

Your burn in p3 is worse

[azure mauve]

you dont get the second sec tech?

[chrome fern]

crazy we go an entire tier with no use for evasion

[obtuse shard]

How tight it is to get 2nd sec tech in burn p3

[lucid jackal]

without autmn, extremely

With autmn, free

[lucid jackal]

y

[lucid ingot]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[crisp lion]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[crisp lion]

!marcos

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[wispy crystal]

On mythic Loomithar it's very risky to shadowstep to the boss when the webs are closing in right?

Realized if the webs are almost touching the boss and you shadowstep, high chance you get hit and stunned.

[untold raptor]

Yup

[tepid trellis]

the ones crossing?

[vale pine]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[short radish]

dont shadowstep back in

step to a warrior

or DH

[tepid trellis]

or rather are we talking p1 or p2 beams?

[tribal blade]

yeah the P1 beams, the orby beams

[tepid trellis]

you can feint those yes

but em

be very fcking careful

they tick

extremely fucking fast

[tribal blade]

yeah we just started progging him today

and i was floor pov a lot early on

but once i figured out how to deal with everything i'm doing fine now (thank god)

[tepid trellis]

also yeah like cheat death doesent work in p1

so

[vale pine]

F

[tribal blade]

yeh! i saw on wcl

swapped over because i noticed cheat was doing literally nothing

[tepid trellis]

works rest of the fight tho

[tribal blade]

2nd fight in 2 raid tiers where we run elu

[warm marlin]

meh I reviewed all the logs and cheat would have saved me exactly once

Elu is the goat

[vagrant sinew]

after dot nerfs elu seems whatever there

[native zodiac]

You actually feel like a tank with elu in p1

[vale pine]

allows you to use evasion as additional defensive too

[tepid trellis]

i aint pressing feint for the dot

ong

[vagrant sinew]

feint works on all the other stuff almost, just evasion is nice

[tepid trellis]

just heal me

ill only feint the soak

im the main character heal me

[tribal blade]

i need to remember now that evasion actaully does something on that fight

if i talent elu

[native zodiac]

I usually always saved evasion for claws

[warm marlin]

Evasion was for banishment

Feint the claw

[native zodiac]

Or that

[tepid trellis]

healer mechanic

[warm marlin]

also starkillers in p3

Dot trucks a bit

[native zodiac]

Evasion+feint just makes it if you have terroists as teammates you can tank 3 claws

[vagrant sinew]

non elu feint works on the dmg at the end of the dot doesnt it?

[tribal blade]

yeah i already died once to stacking with other people in claws

[tepid trellis]

Can only get one tho so just cloak it

[warm marlin]

Banishment after one minute I should be clear, can cloak the first/second one and still have for puddles on add platform

[warm marlin]

oh rly I kinda highrolled all our pulls and didn’t get it

[vagrant sinew]

Til

[tepid trellis]

4 random Per galactic smash

And Can only get selected once

Smash 2-2 smash 2-2 etc

[native zodiac]

I had a 6.1m p1 yesterday on reclear on nexus

Then ran it down in p2

[solar thicket]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[dusk stone]

for high key dawnbreaker 1st boss are you expected to health pot the intermission heal absorb

[daring marlin]

I expect healer to heal me

[dusk stone]

well i had cloaked the burning shadows heal absorb, and at intermission 3.5k healer just didnt heal me and i died to dot

was going wtf

our dk died as well

[chrome fern]

Idk if expected but you should make sure everything is done to have it removed before you fly away

[dusk stone]

well typically i expect the healer to take care of it

and thats always been the case

[chrome fern]

True, but healers always expect people not to stand in avoidable damage, and they cover it as best they can when you do, mistakes happen, if something is in your power to fix you should still try to

[mint violet]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[mint violet]

Why not add the tempered potion into shadow blades macro?

[short radish]

because you dont want to press it off cooldown

eg save for burn on nexus

[mint violet]

oh, thats the raid tech

kk

[short radish]

well also in keys

you dont want to send pot off cd

[limpid sage]

you can stand in the black stuff until the circle explodes so just make sure it's gone before you go flying

if healer flies off before it's gone you're rekt tho

(given you don't have any selfhealing left)

[mint violet]

in pugs u probably do tho, if its not a tiny pack?

[short radish]

yeah but there's the if

[limpid sage]

generally not good to get in a habit of just macroing everything together

[mint violet]

thats true

[limpid sage]

you can always make a bind for everything together

as long as they're separate yknow

[short radish]

yeah

its fine to have everything binds

as long as you have them also separate

[dusk stone]

this is what happened

bro just flew off

[tribal blade]

lol terrorism

[limpid sage]

rekt nerd

nah but that's infuriating

esp when we play prism

happened to me once on the fly-down to the ginormous pull outside of the church

18 stacks prepared

[olive remnant]

yoo how does the pre m+ key prism stacking work?

[chrome fern]

aintnoway im sending consumes in keys

[chrome fern]

👀 lets not talk about all the times where i press my cb + sectec +symbols macro for symbols to pull my sectec. and hence not have cb for the sectec

just roll good rng

ez

[fossil forge]

You have to be in loading when the instance resets

[dusk stone]

wdym loading in when it resets

like as it hits 1

or after 0

[fossil forge]

Key gets put in

[dusk stone]

ive tried twice today and i swear i waited long enough and didnt work

[fossil forge]

Yellow barrier spawns

U have to be in loading when yellow baries goes poof

I usually jump out of the dungeon when timer hits 4

[limpid sage]

does it matter if you're loading in or out

[fossil forge]

no you can even portal to the dungeon

just have to be in loading

I land it consitently every m+ rn u just have to be familiar with your loading speed

[olive remnant]

so when the keyholder does a timer and it hits 3-4 sec i zone out and instantly back in?

[limpid sage]

I wonder if you can get banned for doing it

[wet echo]

if it prevents the resetting of prism stacks, does it also prevent resetting of supercharger stacks?

aka, can we start the dungeon with full 7 supercharges?

[short radish]

i mean r2s are like

60g

[fossil forge]

Abuse quick abuse often

[fossil forge]

Havent tried that yet

[robust dust]

Quick question: I only use shuriken storm in st in blade window in between coup with tier set or? I saw some logs where people do it like: shuriken storm - coup - coup (refund) but this is not correct?

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[chrome fern]

that's like 2k gold a key if i did that i'd have to do wq's or someshit

[limpid sage]

yes you can also do it before coup

[maiden oar]

its just to not proc unseen so using it before first coup is fine if you know you can coup back to back afterwards

[limpid sage]

it's also fine to do it without caring about danse actually

storm->coup->storm->coup simmed 0.2% better for me if you ignore backstab tech after

[night hawk]

How much DPS increase is 2 set and 4 set? % wise

[limpid sage]

2-set around 10%, 4-set around 20% iirc

anyone know if deeper daggers affects elemental focusing lens dmg?

[shadow lance]

Should not. I think they removed most of classe specific interation with trinkets/items

[limpid sage]

ye but wasn't that just mastery?

[shadow lance]

I think it was also dance/sod/sb and talents

I don't know why mastery would modify trinkets damages?

[limpid sage]

I remember there was something about ret pala dealing absurd amounts with Sarkareth trinket because Cosmic dmg is technically holy as well?

[chrome fern]

if so it woulda been a bug, because they removed nature trinkets from being buffed by shiv on sin, which is not a mastery thing

[hollow spear]

Some trinkets get buffed by the shadow damage amp in the deathstalker tree

I don't think there's an interaction with deeper daggers

[haughty rose]

what makes antenna better or worse? does crit level have a huge influence on it? because even with 25% miss chance (which is rather unrealistic according to my logs with an average of 10% miss chance) it always sims 1-2% better than ritual forge

[chrome fern]

why is it termed miss chance

[limpid sage]

increasing returns on crit would do it

the more crit you have, the less value antenna gets you and vice versa

like if you have a 50% dmg amplifier and add 6% extra dmg to it, it's not a relative 6% dmg increase

[haughty rose]

thats with 50%(!) miss chance dungeon slice no raid buffs at 17% crit. and 50% is unrealistic. the lowest i saw from my own logs is 30%

[limpid sage]

what are you simming btw

[haughty rose]

723 antenna vs 723 forge or wdym

[limpid sage]

like what target count, duration, etc

looks like dungeon slice without any raid buffs

[haughty rose]

dungeon slice 5 minutes

[haughty rose]

see here

[limpid sage]

ah mb didn't read that

ye forge sims lower in dungeon slice for some reason

[haughty rose]

ah so results are not realistic?

because if not i really don't see why forge over antenna is even a discussion

it sims better in single target tho

[placid tendon]

i mean, just look at the number. Are you doing 6.6 mil if you play perfectly in a dungeon?

[haughty rose]

depends on the dungeon

first part dawnbreaker probably not. first part priory i do way more

[limpid sage]

I don't know, but intuitively downtime should be a gain for araz trinket

[placid tendon]

yeah, downtime and pulling around cds changes a lot

[haughty rose]

yeah that's what i was thinking too. we get a lot of antenna buff outside of burst which are more or less useless

[placid tendon]

my point is that you almost always do way more

[mighty citrus]

on nexus king platforms, do i need to run behind the mob on the opposite site or is it enough to run through boss and keep uptime, when i get targeted?

[haughty rose]

oh yeah sure

is there a way to check when i was buffed with antenna and when not? like to see how much uptime i really got during burst windows?

[placid tendon]

you can log the dungeon

i guess i only know how to check manually

[limpid sage]

I was more thinking of how cd trinkets scale with downtime

[placid tendon]

You could probably show the graphs for flag and antenna and look at the overlap

[limpid sage]

since you're negating the downside of it being on-use

[haughty rose]

any idea how? this is from soulbinder myth yesterday and i don't really get how to make antenna buff show up. the icons in the red circle don't do anything

[chrome fern]

what are you trying to do? see antenna uptime, or your dps whilst it's on you

if you wanna see uptime, swap to buff not damage done

[coarse halo]

Is it worth it to craft 720 offhand over heroic weap?

[glacial kraken]

correct to sim urself

but it'd be very weird for it to be the best option

[coarse halo]

yeah I'm asking since new on rogue and all my slots are still shit

[empty plume]

I'm in favor of crafting wep + ring, since you need two

and it just becomes your OH (when you get a better MH)

[glacial kraken]

i mean im pretty sure this person has the embelishments

otherwise would be no brainer

[empty plume]

"new on rogue, all my slots still shit"

I made no assumptions

[glacial kraken]

even if new on rogue

[chrome fern]

the answer is to sim yourself

honestly

[glacial kraken]

i doubt they'd just not have spent 4 sparks at all

sim will tell u correct slot to do yeah

within reason

[chrome fern]

offhands are kinda meh, you are probably better crafting an armor piece for more main stat

[pliant gate]

sim told me to craft the alc trinket

[glacial kraken]

that's why its "within reason"

its a nice trinket for stats but like

a slightly lower dps slot

is better luck protection

[pliant gate]

yea im prolly gonna craft shoulder off piece

[glacial kraken]

that's good call if ur 4-set on the other slots ye

just means ur prob never putting tier there

[haughty mural]

We don’t want tier shoulders anyway

[fossil forge]

Is it just me or the game is ded again

[short radish]

i love prism, it's such an ego boost

[limpid sage]

offhand is fine to craft, but it's kinda same stat budget as wrist

[limpid sage]

true this tier has stroked my ego so hard

[fossil forge]

People gaming only on reset day otherwise its cooked

[haughty mural]

I love it

[limpid sage]

I mean doesn't help with fdk being necessary for most keys

[haughty mural]

Do you game forge prism in keys fimbul

[short radish]

yeah

big number make neurons activate

i just tell tanks at start of key

to not worry about my restealth

so i dont hold for as long

[fossil forge]

Onion soup guy

what key level r u playing

[short radish]

10-17

been having some really shitty pugs recently

10 gambit

apparently hooktail is still impossible for pugs

[fossil forge]

Im doing 17-18 and the game is unplayable If its not reset day i stg

[short radish]

15 arakara

Mage: I'll get fear kick

mage proceeds to not get fear kick

woooo 1min key

[haughty rose]

i try to see the overlap between antenna buff and blades/flag

[chrome fern]

check the buffs tab, link me the logs and i can send it back filtered for you

if you dont know what you're doing

[haughty rose]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FKVhCwrQpgNXDWfH?fight=last&type=auras&source=827

[chrome fern]

private logs rip

[fossil forge]

Private logs biggest scam

[haughty rose]

whoops

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FKVhCwrQpgNXDWfH?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=827

[fossil forge]

Why even bother playing If logs private (my guild made them private)

[short radish]

time to gquit

private logging is cringe

[haughty mural]

Yea stonks if pulls happen on cd

If not then playing passive is arguably better

[short radish]

oh yeah 100%

[haughty mural]

In my experience

[short radish]

if you have to hold flag

for like 10-20 seconds

every 2nd pull or something

because tank isnt chaining properly

the casts you lose isnt good

but also like

big number

[haughty mural]

Agreed

Beeing able to do first pull numbers to assert dominance

Worth it

[short radish]

💯

[chrome fern]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FKVhCwrQpgNXDWfH?fight=last&type=auras&source=827&pins=2%24Main%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24183767930.0.0.Rogue%24false%241239641^2%24Main%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%24183767930.0.0.Rogue%24true%24183767930.0.0.Rogue%24false%24394758^2%24Main%24%23a04D8A%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%24183767930.0.0.Rogue%24true%24183767930.0.0.Rogue%24false%24384631&target=827

[feral radish]

is it possible to play without flagelation or its going to be a huge dps loss in m+ ?

[short radish]

huge dps loss

[haughty rose]

ok thank you. so about 1/3 of the antenna buffs were actually useful

[chrome fern]

you could search to make sure you pick one up prior to cd window, kinda when you building sht stacks

[haughty rose]

and about half of it lined up with dance

[haughty rose]

i'll try that because honestly outside of dance theres not much to do anyway

[clever delta]

Do you get knocked off on dimmenisius, if your shadow step target die for example 😄

[alpine wraith]

you can step him on p1

but p3 is death

just watch for the tank so you dont get knocked around agin

[karmic harbor]

need 1 good melee player on your side in your group

or notice they died and change your focus

[tepid trellis]

you can step him p3 just dont move as you do it

[alpine wraith]

doesnt he get bigger and you die?

didnt want to risk after getting munched once

[tepid trellis]

he doesent change

[native zodiac]

make a macro on your dk

dk literally cant die and doesnt get knocked

[haughty mural]

Vanish strike is still certain death on him right?

[clever delta]

Will have to see if I have dk on my side

[native zodiac]

you can also step the rings in p3 with the same macro then

[tepid trellis]

should function same as step

[clever delta]

Cool

[haughty mural]

Just don’t move

Got it

[coarse ravine]

!WA

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[shadow lance]

@short radish @tribal blade One of you got a damages breakdown of Priory above 16 ?

Wanan check something

Maybe you got this in your screenshot collection

[tribal blade]

i don't no, but lemme see if anyone did logs

i wouldn't be the best person to emulate though because i'm half a donkey haha

[upbeat jetty]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[tribal blade]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/47tDMgFy3aZKkj1c?fight=249&type=damage-done

nice someone logged the 17 priory i did

[shadow lance]

perfect

Why my ruptures so low

Oh

Got the answer lol, I was in raid talent

[tribal blade]

that would do it 😉

i usually notice immediately

because i'm scanning my nameplates and see ruptures aren't duplicating

[shadow lance]

I knew something feeled weird

I was feeling applying so much ruptures

I understand why now

I need another coffee

[tribal blade]

people are running a WA that announces what talents you're in before you start a key, 1 sec lemee see if i can find it

[shadow lance]

I got it

But I was alt tab so I didn't heard the alert

And was 90% sure I was in good set

[tribal blade]

ahhhh gotcha

[shadow lance]

I'm considering swap rotten by shuriken tornado or finality at this point

I see you play Tea + finality

Did you play tornado sometimes? I don't know how feel about it

[lilac stag]

ignore tornado

Fuck tornado

[haughty mural]

Based

And true

[lilac stag]

Tell me when I’m telling lies.

[vale pine]

tornado is not bad

[haughty mural]

Me on my 19% crit not ready to swap to tea

[vale pine]

its just, not the most insane talent

[lilac stag]

where is your crit mate?

[haughty mural]

On logic gate alpha which refuses to drop

[lilac stag]

Considering it’s a CD, due to spec design you’re not using in CDs for various other design choices. It’s shit.

[fossil forge]

Classic cb build with 1 finality instead of rotten

[vale pine]

but you do

its just a filler on low target counts

but you can tornado instead of storm between coup

[lilac stag]

[vale pine]

and its still better to use during on higher target counts

its just a weird talent

[lilac stag]

when everyone wants prio dmg, that’s very debatable

[vale pine]

because it has so many unintuitive things to it

also one thing i don't know about

is there any other damage talent that has no initial benefit?

blizz changed most talents to give something, so tornado is maybe one of the few outdated designs

[lilac stag]

tornado and death stalker can both take a trip to the 🗑️

[vale pine]

there is always a lot to complain

but in the end, the gameplay loop is fun

so

[lilac stag]

Bliz makes it easy when they don’t give the spec and attention

[vale pine]

i mean ye

but thats just the modern trend

many games go for slower release cycles and release more filler content

[lilac stag]

tons of fun watching a WA for cp refunds on 1.4 gcd and pressing your luck on a send maybe overwriting the refund

[limpid sage]

don't do it man

[vale pine]

it is a economic problem in the us, and a consequence of shareholder based development

[lilac stag]

If prism wasn’t a thing, I don’t think folks would be having as much fun as they are. my hot take.

[vale pine]

also possible just easier to sustain buissneses like that

[hazy breach]

Obviously nado could be way better, but using it at the start of cds and going sectech > coup > coup > BP does feel nice

[vale pine]

^

[shadow lance]

I don't want to play with rotten anymore

Not being able to play around tilts me

[lilac stag]

1pt finality. Enjoy.

[shadow lance]

-2% dps

I enjoy less

[limpid sage]

you can though

just do it pre dance

[lilac stag]

or just run finality.

[limpid sage]

stop finality propaganda

[lilac stag]

stop rotten propaganda

[limpid sage]

no such thing

[lilac stag]

have enough crit where you don’t need that shit

[vale pine]

the main problem with tornado is the delays, feedback and that it adds a buttton

but it is not a super bad button to use

[limpid sage]

how does tornado work with refunds?

[royal crest]

i think its always felt kinda clunky

[hazy breach]

It has no interaction with shadowcraft

[lilac stag]

This is the answer. Was still clunky back on Zul

[haughty mural]

[limpid sage]

no but if you have symbols running and 7 stacks of ShT it'll waste cp no?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[lilac stag]

Are your crafted pieces crit + whatever?

[shadow lance]

Great call

I'll do some recraft

I'm vers/mast craft but I'm 2k5 after the DR in mastery

[lilac stag]

Crit Vers made sub and assa happy for me

[shadow lance]

Gonna craft in crit/vers

[lilac stag]

we’re kinda swimming in mastery

[haughty mural]

I am swimming in 25k vers

[haughty mural]

I’ll do that after vault

[lilac stag]

immortal oZ

[shadow lance]

Current stats

[haughty mural]

I am immortal

But usually I’m a mastery enjoyer

Not this season hehe

[lilac stag]

dino and his 15 crit

for 200 mastery goals

[limpid sage]

my exact stats

[haughty mural]

I wouldn’t go that far

[lilac stag]

Our 🦖 is special.

[haughty mural]

But he would also go 0 everything else and only mastery if he could

[lilac stag]

Did you gear your hunter this season?

[haughty mural]

Ya

Almost better gear than my rogue

[lilac stag]

which spec are you playing?

their output is crazy

[haughty mural]

MM though

spec

[lilac stag]

I need to setup WAs for Woyer today.

[haughty mural]

Still on fury duty since your tank swapped of ?

[lilac stag]

First 6 have been rogue. Rentawarrior likely last 2

Our MW getting married so dominos fall to replace raid buffs. Our backup MW is now 2nd lock for Dimey

we have two rogues.

[haughty mural]

I see

I’ll probably be on hunter duty the coming reset or the reset after that since we lack ranges somehow

[lilac stag]

doesn’t hurt that Hunter blastin

[haughty mural]

It’s not rogue tho

[fossil forge]

Keep pushing finality propaganda

[night hawk]

oooh do you have the link to the document/sheet?

[coarse ravine]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker
• Stealthi's Coup de Grace bar

[crystal bone]

!tier

[wicked jolt]

Tier set:
Best Slots: Head, Chest, Hands, Legs
Strength: 2p (~10% dps) | 4p (~20% dps) -> Combined: ~30%.
Note: Try to get the 4set asap.

[crystal bone]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lyric mortar]

How many applications of "The first dance" talent are you able to get during M+ runs? I think my value is pretty low in the current chain pull meta, was wondering how many most of you are getting

[limpid sage]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/e/2PACX-1vR2mvnqtoXNlUoL-WvrwYdXfzAVULMSx82oKrGCj4z6XhEabUl8EtqoFLnAD4q4bNUTgE8tVP0-oJ9W/pubhtml?pli=1

[crystal bone]

even if you only get one TFD the entire dungeon, it is already better than the alternative

but depending on the dungeon i can usually get at least 3 or 4

[lilac stag]

use vanish more aggressively for resets

[crystal bone]

yea i was referring to without vanishing i suppose

[fossil forge]

really depends on how racist the tank is

[limpid sage]

that's prob stretching it, but weaponmaster is def shit ye

[hazy breach]

Its not stretching it

Weaponmaster is shit on singletarget, its horrendous on aoe, as it does no aoe at all

If you do a 8 target cleave sim its like 16 minutes for weaponmaster to overtake 4 seconds of tfd

[limpid sage]

I mean you have at least 8 minutes of singletarget per dungeon which is when TFD starts to fall off right?

[hazy breach]

Compared to one proc yes

But youll have 1 on pull and atleast one per boss

Probably more

[lyric mortar]

Talent choice seems to be made to fbm by design D:

[limpid sage]

ye that's what I meant by stretching it

was just being slightly pedantic

[crystal bone]

so its legit already better on pull 1 of ecodome and floodgate with 15+ target count

[limpid sage]

but yes it's an extremely unlikely scenario only getting 1 proc of TFD an entire dungeon

if not impossible

would def require some active work not getting another proc xd

[karmic harbor]

in priory 15 i got 14 tdfs off

ig it depends on the dungeon

[crystal bone]

yeah RP will also force tfd

RP almost in every dungeon

[limpid sage]

my favorite part of m+ is hearing voicelines

[fossil forge]

You can press symbols on last boss of streets because of the 30 second rp

[lyric mortar]

idk I barley get free restealth anyways

[fossil forge]

[karmic harbor]

streets 12, ecodome 9, floodgate 14, halls 9

interesting

[crystal bone]

i feel like streets has 12 pulls

damn near

[karmic harbor]

im really bad at using vanish for tfd too

so can get higher in some of these dungs

[lyric mortar]

can you explain how? dont we need to remain ooc for 6 secs for tfd?

[limpid sage]

it's def the best use of vanish currently besides as a defensive

[limpid sage]

ye but if tank chainpulls 1 mob into next pack it's worth to vanish while it gathers

[karmic harbor]

if a packs almost dead and im not going to send dance on it i'd just vanish

[lyric mortar]

kinda clanky with pugs but ty ill try that

[limpid sage]

it's one of the things I miss about not being nelf anymore

[karmic harbor]

i miss belf racial being an aoe interrupt but apparently that's overpowered

[lyric mortar]

you mean for the affix? or was it an actual aoe interrupt at some point?

[limpid sage]

"apparently"

[karmic harbor]

used to be an aoe silence but it got reworked

[lyric mortar]

I miss it working properly for the affix, period. lol

[limpid sage]

it was 1.5 min cd in legion even

jesus that's broken

[short radish]

havent done one

my groups suck

[lyric mortar]

I see in logs it was changed right before I started playing, rude

tbh id rather they removed combat racials so I could play a void elf

[lilac stag]

Use the tools we have. Much rather have vanish for TFD or defensive instead of generating another strike.

[minor sorrel]

TDF is outscaled by weaponmaster after 7 minutes single target sim and never in AE

Allso with TDF beeing this good isnt playing nightelf mandatory?

[dusty totem]

TFD is not that good tho is it

It is just weaponmaster that is very bad

[lilac stag]

lol it’s very good

And WM is bad.

Downtime and Shuriken storm usage also favors TFD

[dusty totem]

I mean in a 1.5 min 8 target sim TFD is only worth 3.3% dmg over weapon master

Strong for a single talent sure

But not that strong in the context of eg. making entire group wait 6 sec before boss pull

[lilac stag]

You vanish early

Not that difficult

And the key is an overall encounter. Not a boss by boss or pack by pack simulation.

[dusty totem]

True that is a good vanish use

[lilac stag]

everything in the key needs to die

[dusty totem]

smart

But like 3.3%

It is not like mandetory

[shadow lance]

No, it's optimization

But 3.3% is fckng huge

[lilac stag]

nothing is mandatory

it’s also way more “priority” dmg since you’re getting addition strikes, ub, etc

[limpid sage]

I'd imagine the diff is bigger when you do disorienting strikes + presymbols cheese

[lilac stag]

but enjoy your extra 15 combo points over 10 minutes

[hollow spear]

People are selling their grandmas for 0.3%

3.3% is crazy

[dusty totem]

Guys i am not saying play weaponmaster

[lilac stag]

You are

Because that’s the alternative

[dusty totem]

was just the most useless talent to swap to so i could see how important getting TFD is

But whatever i don't care enough bb

[lilac stag]

and it’s been explained why, and you’re still saying it’s not that big. I don’t think prism was even 3% as an upgrade

[stone patrol]

sorry i read something "Rotten is harder to play..." whats the point here? Isnt rotten in AOE to spread FW easily?

[dusty totem]

ngl i would just play finality

[chrome palm]

@limpid sage did that rotten min max with using symbols before dance go anywhere

[short radish]

i will not sit here and read this TFD slander

[chrome palm]

To be fair tfd with cold blood makes me want to defenestrate my computer

[shadow lance]

Why?

[dusty totem]

Yeah sorry bro i think i explained poorly since everyone got so mad

[vale pine]

quite a overreaction ^^

neither tfd nor cb are that annoying

[lilac stag]

It’s not.

Harder to play that is

[chrome palm]

If you feint in tfd outside of blades you can sometimes be energy starved

[limpid sage]

no I couldn't figure out how to implement it without fucking up the symbols logic

[chrome palm]

If you aren’t playing tea

[shadow lance]

So you lied to me

[limpid sage]

but when doing strict opening sequences it seems to be an increase

[lilac stag]

Propaganda

[limpid sage]

take a propaganda deez nuts

[lilac stag]

enjoy finality. Have some crit gear.

[shadow lance]

Working on it

[lilac stag]

watch @limpid sage go to Wendy’s

[glass cape]

when i play wit hthe sim on aoe if i swap tea talents to vanish tree talents the dps difference is like 2%....but how is that possible when we'd have like 0 energy?

[fleet wharf]

we don't really have energy problems when it matters

[glass cape]

I'm an FF player and autistic XD When I hit button and ability doesnt happen because of an archaic resource from 2006 i get sads and despresso

[fleet wharf]

what do you mean, the gcd is 1/3 as long here

[glass cape]

but i see what you mean, in burst we have a billion energy

and really thats all that matters

[short radish]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[limpid sage]

I think he’s referring to dead gcds outside of cds

[short radish]

if you have adhd and need to constantly press something

press detection

[limpid sage]

Or spam A/D

[karmic harbor]

i think he means running out of energy

[lilac stag]

outlaw is calling

[fleet wharf]

i mean what he meant is fair, but my counterpoint is that things happen quicker in wow because we dont have a 3 sec gcd >.>

[lilac stag]

try evoker

[glass cape]

that is true but FF has no energy system

so you just hit buttons

[short radish]

yeah so just hit detection

[fleet wharf]

energy is kind of weird, but it's basically here to stay though right?

[short radish]

yes

i can say with high confidence

[fleet wharf]

no way they overhaul 4 specs

[short radish]

blizzard is not removing energy as a mechanic from rogues

feel free to quote me on that

[glass cape]

if they do that in midnight can i ping it 1000 times?

[short radish]

sure

[glass cape]

and post duck pictures?

[maiden oar]

must press 123 at all times or brain explode

[short radish]

only if they are roasted

[vapid lodge]

How far in advance should I start ramping to make sure I am ready to pop off for add spawns/amp phases? Does anyone know the average time it takes?

[short radish]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: ** You can hold coup up to ~20 secounds and stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. The later is used to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lilac stag]

Won’t be his first or last bit of misinformation

[maiden oar]

im a ffxiv refugee i get it hehe

[fleet wharf]

just copy smarter rogues in lorrgs. that's what I do

[vale pine]

feel free to quote me on that
Fimbulvtr 22. september 2025

[maiden oar]

but sometimes in wow the correct button to press is nothing

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[glass cape]

yeah i hate that

alot

[maiden oar]

like if youre playing nin you will raiton out of trick right

[karmic harbor]

play a caster

[glass cape]

so i push detection or

[maiden oar]

if you have to leave for a gcd

[fleet wharf]

you may want to try fury

[glass cape]

push a toy

for fun

[maiden oar]

but in wow if you arent overcapping energy do not throw the shuriken

[short radish]

honestly just enjoy the downtime as sub

its the only spec that really has this large afk time

[vale pine]

i am actually curios about midnight

[maiden oar]

and even if you are overcapping consider not throwing it anyway

[short radish]

take your hands off the keyboard

stretch them

rotate your wrists a bit

[lilac stag]

@glass cape outlaw or fury may be more your enjoyment

[short radish]

you gotta look after yourself

[vale pine]

because i have no idea what changes blizz would like to make

[glass cape]

i do like outlaw

[short radish]

im still really hoping it's just minor changes

and we dont get a huge overhaul

[maiden oar]

tbh as a xiv refugee i really like sub

[short radish]

except simplifying/qol stuff

[fleet wharf]

if we get an overhaul, I def want sub to keep its identity/niche

[short radish]

just delete deathstalker. hero talents were a mistake

[fleet wharf]

maybe more purple

[lilac stag]

we need a huge overhaul to fix the fucked up spaghetti stealth coding

[glass cape]

but I really like sub because its alot like ninja where you have a big burst and a mini burst

[maiden oar]

its kind of similar to drk or something in that you do insane burst and nothing else

and the charges are like drk mana

[fleet wharf]

maybe try frost DK**?

[umbral fulcrum]

the comparison to ff is strange just because most of the time you are pressing one button every 2.5s

like most of the time you aren’t pressing anything

[glass cape]

i dont play ranged im not a coward

[short radish]

also arcane mage

[vapid lodge]

Which CD are you tracking? Flagellation?

[short radish]

holy based

[short radish]

as much as you want

[fleet wharf]

Flag and prism usually are enough

[short radish]

i track shadow dance as well

because i dont like thinking

at all

[vapid lodge]

Hahaha fair thanks guys!

[maiden oar]

i walk my fairy back and forth to inflate my apm

[lilac stag]

How are you not a ret main yet?

[short radish]

#subtlety message

[glass cape]

I'll get over the energy thing. It's just an adjustment phase

[short radish]

beacuse it's my psudo alt

[glass cape]

or I can gimp myself and do like 20% haste

[short radish]

and my hands get tired playing it too long

[maiden oar]

what jobs did you like in ff btw

[short radish]

as well as my brain just turns to mush

[limpid sage]

Takes like 12-13 sec to send cb sectec I think?

[short radish]

i actually stand in so much more mechanics

when i play ret

because im not thinking

[maiden oar]

if you liked stuff like shb smn or ew blm or old pld or ew mnk rogue has alot of nonsense like that

[umbral fulcrum]

BLM main, sometimes i play ninja

[chrome fern]

far more than 4 specs

[maiden oar]

oh i meant duck hehe

[vapid lodge]

Love it

[maiden oar]

but ah ok

blm to rogue makes sense

[vapid lodge]

Thanks man!!!

[maiden oar]

i was forced to play sch mostly but i didnt like it that much

[glass cape]

I play PCT because its the only job that doesnt put me to sleep outside of Ninja my actual main

[karmic harbor]

how do i play sub on nexus with this tank movement if it 1st soak (don't tell me to shadowstep someone)

[maiden oar]

just did it to fill my friends needs

[umbral fulcrum]

shadow step someone

[glass cape]

cause FF has 18 jobs that play the exact same

[limpid sage]

There is no way you just spreadsheet everything

[maiden oar]

same tank has group soak every time so you can focus them and step last second

[short radish]

press cloak and ignore mechanics

[glass cape]

Cloak is so much fun

[karmic harbor]

if i cloak the soak it doesnt remove a stack does it?

[short radish]

it removes

[karmic harbor]

wtf

[short radish]

you just dont take damage

[karmic harbor]

i swear i tried that

[maiden oar]

no sometimes u press 123123123 and sometimes u press 12111111111112

[short radish]

you missed the soak

[karmic harbor]

fml

ok tyvm

[short radish]

👍

[umbral fulcrum]

bro plays PCT as if that doesn’t involve 4s long casts regularly

hmmm

[short radish]

smarter people than me have decided when to press buttons

[maiden oar]

id recommend sticking w sub then

[glass cape]

i stopped after the nerfs :p

[maiden oar]

if u can get past dead gcds

[short radish]

like i'll adjust mine to fit.

[glass cape]

Post PCT nerf i was like "amazing. They made this unique job a 1 2 3 job"

[fleet wharf]

where is that screenshot of peak sub gameplay

[glass cape]

Very cool

[short radish]

but it's more as a reminder to press dance at X times

[maiden oar]

has a similar amount of flexibility with the charges and u can pool resources for big burst in a kind of different kind of not way

[fleet wharf]

with just one backstab in timeline

[umbral fulcrum]

the pct nerfs changed gameplay to require more thought

[umbral fulcrum]

but not really the point

[glass cape]

no it didnt.

[maiden oar]

if you liked doton nonsense in fru sub has stuff like that also

[glass cape]

all it did was make magenta skip harder

[umbral fulcrum]

it did tho

i’m not gonna argue with you tho

this isn’t the balance

[glass cape]

good the balance is low brain cells anyway

[maiden oar]

i check there sometimes and people talk alot about wow in there now

so cool we love wow

[granite river]

One week I step and is ok, next week I step and not ok

[glass cape]

probably because there's nothing to do

[umbral fulcrum]

yea a lot of the blm lounge posters are wow players too

[limpid sage]

Do you just copy paste from lorrgs

[glass cape]

and hasnt been anything to do in a long time

4 1/2 month patch cycles for 1 instance is like kinda insane

[fleet wharf]

i paste it into personal notes on mrt if it helps at all

[short radish]

yeah

[maiden oar]

but yea if u can get past stuff like energy and doing xiv healer rotation to pool for flag for 10s

[short radish]

i pick one that matches up with how i want to do my cooldowns

[fleet wharf]

do you also use personal notes or do you just append on main notes at the end?

[short radish]

and i kinda just adjust after first night

[umbral fulcrum]

don’t do that

[maiden oar]

i think subs got alot of nuance and endearing unintuitive minmaxes

[glass cape]

i can its not a big deal I just hate it

[short radish]

personal note

[umbral fulcrum]

import it into the reminders

[maiden oar]

similar to old xiv jobs

[umbral fulcrum]

not your note

[maiden oar]

like paladin and blm and smn and mnk before they ruined them

[fleet wharf]

why? with kaze it's basically the same thing.

[maiden oar]

its a fun spec imo

[neon frigate]

Hey guys, about interrupts with kick. How you do it, just manual tabbing or work with a macro and focus?

[glass cape]

Just like how I hate Raiju and all that it stands for. I just get used to it.

[lilac stag]

getting pseudo serious. WA making this morning

[glass cape]

oooh neat.

[maiden oar]

if you like snapshotting from xiv can also try feral

but that guy also waits for resources

[glass cape]

that guy also waits for gorup invites too

[maiden oar]

hehe

[torn shell]

Does being behind target buff anything besides backstab?

[fleet wharf]

don't we also wait for group invites though

[umbral fulcrum]

if you want 60 cpm sub is not the spec for it

[short radish]

whats the point of playing fury when outlaw exists

wait nvm its outlaw

[lilac stag]

you have it reveresed

[umbral fulcrum]

fury does damage

[limpid sage]

fury is cooler as well

[umbral fulcrum]

xd

[lilac stag]

whats the point of playing outlaw when fury exists

[fleet wharf]

isn't fury a bit more lenient than outlaw?

[umbral fulcrum]

fury is babby spec for babby

[fleet wharf]

I feel with outlaw, your mistakes quickly snowball out of control

[glass cape]

does RTB die in midnight?

[limpid sage]

takes one to know one!1!!

[maiden oar]

they had an outlaw with 2 daggers casting rtb in the trailer

[glass cape]

I wish outlaw was less about guns and gamba and more about combat tech

and that 8 target cap

makes me sad duck

[fleet wharf]

MoP classic is still a thing

[glass cape]

Eh. I already that when I was younger and didnt have to worry about thingsl ike taxes and arthritis

[maiden oar]

@ duck and bleed build andy did either of you have a significant adjustment period due to relying on legacy movement

curious since i think that was the hardest part about switching to wow

personally

[umbral fulcrum]

no

i play both games concurrently

[glass cape]

I play them together.

[maiden oar]

ah ok

[glass cape]

Just moreso wow because in WoW I have something to do

thats all

[maiden oar]

my xiv keybinds were unpressable while strafing

so i had to relearn everything

[glass cape]

I play controller in xiv anyway. so its kinda like night and day for me

[fleet wharf]

this is such a real problem though.

[maiden oar]

i quit xiv after fru disappointed me but maybe if they fix jobs in 8.0 or 2nd ult comes out when nothing happens in wow ill resub

[fleet wharf]

I recently redid my bindings to get rid of shift q and shift 1 because it hurt my hand too much to regularly hit those buttons

[maiden oar]

[maiden oar]

i solved it but it took alot of effort

[fleet wharf]

what buttons did you remove? kind of curious

[glass cape]

Fru was fine. I'm glad it was easy. looking back on myself I fucking hate long progging ultimates

I'm old now

[maiden oar]

i had to heal it and i was so mad

[glass cape]

Just paint. GG

[maiden oar]

yea...

[glass cape]

I didnt get to NIN because the other melee kept sucking off Viper the whole time

[maiden oar]

no dmg buttons on number keys and i use mb4 and mb5 rotationally now

[fleet wharf]

Very interesting.

[maiden oar]

i reprogged it on a few diff roles before quitting to see if it was healings fault but i just cant enjoy the game if the jobs are not fun and the content isnt challenging enough to make up for it

[glass cape]

games not for you

its for woke lmao

[maiden oar]

recommend it i can strafe and hit almost every button

[maiden oar]

it was once and maybe 1 day it will be again

[glass cape]

and for people who cry hysterical at digitltal art with sad music i nthe background

Forked tower was fun though that was enough to keep my sub for a while.

[maiden oar]

1234 for cc and utility
mb5/mb4/qerfcv for dmg and defensives

shift alt ctrl modifiers

if ur curious

@fleet wharf

[glass cape]

outlaw with 2 daggers though is kinda crazy....I'm not sure what they're thinking but I'm never sure what blizzard is thinking

[umbral fulcrum]

my blm bars

[maiden oar]

never tried but one of my friends did the 100 kill thing

[maiden oar]

couldve been mistake when filming trailer

[fleet wharf]

have you tried doing mw up or down? pretty useful for certain functions

[maiden oar]

yes

[glass cape]

What if we get a 3rd hero spec?

[maiden oar]

its bound for potion/healthstone/camera controls with shift held

[glass cape]

hero talent or access to the third one

[maiden oar]

click mouse button is focus mouseover

[azure mauve]

ffxiv 14 talk??

in my wow discord???

the fuck

[umbral fulcrum]

its ok we were weaving it in

[maiden oar]

i am trying to help a xiv refugee assimilate

[umbral fulcrum]

between gcd's

no lost uptime

[short radish]

#assassination-general is leaking

[maiden oar]

bc im in the process of assimilating too

so its the least i can do!

[glass cape]

I'd rather have cute ducks

[umbral fulcrum]

to revisit the legacy movement for a second tho

[short radish]

[umbral fulcrum]

i would pay anything for legacy movement in wow

tell me where to swipe

ill do it right now

[maiden oar]

legacy movement goes insane u can just only ever press w

[glass cape]

Would you pay 1 dollar?

a day?

[maiden oar]

no need for any other movement key

[glass cape]

for it?

[umbral fulcrum]

i just want to run at the camera when i press S

[maiden oar]

makes keybinds so easy

[glass cape]

does WoW not have a "legacy" movement?

[umbral fulcrum]

no

[limpid sage]

Wait what

[maiden oar]

yea full speed backward movment while hitting also was nice

nope

[limpid sage]

Is that what legacy movement is

[umbral fulcrum]

yes

[maiden oar]

u just have to learn to move primarily with a and d

[maiden oar]

also dont have to face enemy to hit

[glass cape]

why do you guys not have a legacy moevment you were here first

[umbral fulcrum]

thats not legacy movement

[maiden oar]

oh yeah thats just a xiv feature

[umbral fulcrum]

thats the ff14 option to auto face target when using an action

[short radish]

wtf is legacy movement

[maiden oar]

but combined w legacy its so good

[umbral fulcrum]

camera-based movement

[maiden oar]

u can do anything

[umbral fulcrum]

you press S, you run at camera

instead of backpedaling

[limpid sage]

Oh I thought I missed something crucial in wow

[short radish]

that sounds

wack

[umbral fulcrum]

no

its peak

[maiden oar]

its so good

[short radish]

but then how do you backpedal

[umbral fulcrum]

you don't

[maiden oar]

u dont

[glass cape]

you dont

[maiden oar]

u are full speed

[fleet wharf]

yea, it doesn't exist

[maiden oar]

and u can hit

[short radish]

but what if you need to backpedal

[maiden oar]

u dont

[glass cape]

you dont

[maiden oar]

why would u need to

[umbral fulcrum]

when do you need to backpedal

[short radish]

so you dont get parried

[fleet wharf]

though I played wow longer than ff14, i prolly didn't make full use of legacy movement ig

[glass cape]

you can run back and still hit the boss

[short radish]

or hit in the back

[maiden oar]

doesnt exist

[short radish]

?????

how do you hit the boss

[fleet wharf]

no parry or such mechanics

[short radish]

when you arent facing it

[glass cape]

you can in ff lol

[maiden oar]

it just works

[fleet wharf]

the circle tells you what part you're hitting if you need positionals

[maiden oar]

i like how movement and facing your guy is a skill in wow

but its a big adjustment i think

[limpid sage]

King Crimson

[glass cape]

The literal reason why we have this is because people bitched about not hitting the boss due to turn awqay mechanics. Now we can auto attack without facing the boss.

[umbral fulcrum]

ff14 also uses gaze mechanics infinitely more than wow

[glass cape]

thats very true

[umbral fulcrum]

so being able to turn away quickly is common

[maiden oar]

gaze wiggle is so funny

i feel like i am scamming the game

[glass cape]

your gcds if you have it set also turn to face you to target

[umbral fulcrum]

you can also backpedal on legacy movement by holding A and D and then pressing S

[maiden oar]

tbh i do have a problem in wow where i invent weave slots in my head

when pressing ogcds

i forget that u can just slam them as fast as possible

[umbral fulcrum]

lol yea i had to stop weaving like that too

[glass cape]

I have a mouse button JUST FOR THAT It presses nothing

but

its a weave button I used to have

[maiden oar]

need to get in the habit of late weaving dance though

bc that actually matters

[glass cape]

like late weaving trick

or....kunai w/e

[maiden oar]

or like old bunshin

i think is the best example

before they put the stacks on it

[fleet wharf]

I made a sound cue to help with that. Make a WA that makes a sound like 1.7sec after you press flag

[glass cape]

I like the horn osund effect

it bleeds through the mike and bothers my guild

"Why do you need horn sounds?"

Because you play BM hunter shut up

📯

[limpid sage]

You mean when sending late sectec?

[fleet wharf]

no, to wait until your GCD is nearly over before pressing the first dance during your CDs so you don't munch the last GCD

[maiden oar]

no just to give me more leeway if for whatever reason i cant press a button right after the previous one

bc im making 8 gcd dance unnecessarily tight for myself by dancing early

[limpid sage]

Ah ye ofc doesn’t apply to only sectec

I’ve started trying to optimize that as well

Hard habit to shake

[maiden oar]

yea im used to it now more or less

but it took a sec

[limpid sage]

When sending coup idk which is better

Sending early and getting more coup in the window or waiting

[maiden oar]

i see people just press it pre coup

but idk i didnt look into it

[fleet wharf]

I'm confused, I think I lost the thread somewhere

[maiden oar]

like if you have 7 cp coup and 10s cd left on sectech or something

can go dance coup

or just chaining dances in flag etc

now i look like im talking to no one

evil delete

[fleet wharf]

it was irrelevant lol. I kept the relevant message

[maiden oar]

hehe

[crisp lion]

I see a lot of top rogues using 1 of every gem color including the green haste gems. Wondering if I should do that or trust my sim when it tells me to go all red?

[maiden oar]

theres tickboxes in the sim

1 sec i get you a screenshof

[plush cove]

i think the difference is like

0.01% dmg

if you run diff colors over optimal stats

[fleet wharf]

you guys all running crit meta gem?

[maiden oar]

do it like this

i am rn but i dont know for certain if its correct

maybe speeds better

[fleet wharf]

I swapped over my wrist enchant, thinking about doing the movespeed meta gem

[maiden oar]

if i was on warlock or something id be using speed

but im not sure on rogue

[fleet wharf]

we technically have a lot of mobility, but i dunno man, more movespeed never hurt anyone

and I don't think we're sacrificing a whole lot of damage, are we?

[maiden oar]

no idea

[plush cove]

it's 0.6% more crit damage so

if you like speed more, go for it

[fleet wharf]

maybe the angle is to run speed meta until you're done progging and then you can swap it over once you're done

[crisp lion]

ty!

[maiden oar]

can pick diff gems ofc

i just picked those bc thats what im using and im using them because i feelycrafted

its 0.4% loss for me to swap to movement speed

[maiden oar]

rn im running avoidance on wrists until dimmy dies (today???? perhaps?????) and then im swapping to speed

but i could have it backwards hehe

[plush cove]

run leech

the full health sectec tech

[fleet wharf]

Depends on what's causing wipes, but as a sub rogue, I think we have less to gain from avoidance compared to other classes

[maiden oar]

yea i just feel like the speed benefits greedy play the most

[short radish]

surely speed to get you into position faster

will save you more than avoidance

[plush cove]

speed to run into the safe zones faster

which they always form at the back of the platform

running to the melee cuck chair at 1000% speed

[maiden oar]

idk i feel like towards the tail end of prog being tankier helps more

but towards the front end being faster helps

[fleet wharf]

why run when you can just tp

[plush cove]

are you on M or H grouch?

[maiden oar]

m

[plush cove]

oh shit

[limpid sage]

16 sec works

[plush cove]

honestly i agree, i feel like tankier for prog is the way to go

[maiden oar]

it depends i think speed wouldve been better on nexus king

[limpid sage]

7 cp + 5 coup cp + 3 supercharge cp + 1 gcd

[fleet wharf]

I also agree in principle, but we're so tanky I don't know if we gain much from stacking more

[maiden oar]

but on dimmy i dont feel like i want to be faster that badly

the only part of dimmy i felt slow was on pargoth platform on the set without gate

but u can vanish to cleanse that slow or shadowstep to ur bdk

so its ok

maybe if we see 5th rings on kill pull and i already cloaked ring 4

but besides that i think im fast enough

[fleet wharf]

gotta a/d dance faster

[maiden oar]

yeah it does

i just picked a random number

[maiden oar]

truthfully i have no idea

im just looking at what better players do and asking myself why they probably did that

[fleet wharf]

it's 8% speed that doesn't suffer from diminishing returns...

[maiden oar]

until i have reverse engineered their thought process enough times to have a vague idea of whats going on

[fleet wharf]

I think I've nearly convinced myself

[maiden oar]

i have scouts march on though which goes against my own reasoning

so i think im just a noob

going to swap that to defenders for good luck

[limpid sage]

900 stam does fk all

the relative speed gain is def bigger than the relative stam gain

(I have not calculated it but I'm pretty sure)

[maiden oar]

i dont know if ill notice either way

[limpid sage]

you won't

[plush cove]

source: i pulled it out of my ass (i 100% agree)

tho honestly, in fights where you have to move a lot, speed is def better if you are not constantly at 1 hp

[granite river]

Bracer speed is def budgeted higher

[maiden oar]

yea

its just my 2nd season raiding so i look at what all the people who cleared before me have on and try and figure out why they have it

and they all like avoidance so i am sure that theres probably a good reason

even if i can only guess what it is

[plush cove]

2nd season and already about to get ce?

damn, gratz

[fleet wharf]

not just CE but HOF no?

[maiden oar]

[plush cove]

didn't HoF close already?

unless twitter lied

[maiden oar]

i did play for 3 weeks in dragonflight before going back to xiv and i killed normal eranog

[plush cove]

(again)

[maiden oar]

and i did do delves in tww season 1 before quitting xiv

[short radish]

hof wont close for another week at least