!up
#subtlety
strange harness
wicked joltBOT
strange harness
!prepull
wicked joltBOT
Pre Pull Cheeses:
Recommended - Supercharge - Using Symbols of Death before pull gives you 2 supercharger charges, this is easy to perform and can be done without any loss given the infinite timer on supercharger.
- Explanation: Only the first 2 stacks of Supercharger don't reset on a boss pull, and you can easily press symbols early enough to have full charges on pull.
NOT Recommended- Disoriented Strikes - Using Secret Technique gives you disoriented strikes, you can start bosses with the benefits when using Secret before a wipe or on Trash carefully. - Explanation: Disoriented does not reset on boss pull, but this trick requires a lot of attention and can't be done consistently, so is not recommended.
Damage Impact: Both Cheeses lead to a bit more than1% damagegain in a 5 minute Patchwerk simulation.
strange harness
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
strange harness
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
strange harness
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
strange harness
!atro
wicked joltBOT
Atrophic /Feint in Raid: > Click to Open <
sacred gull
Any tips or WA to not forget superchaching on respawn ?
strange harness
!loot
wicked joltBOT
north schooner
sacred gull
Amazing thanks
fossil frost
Is anyone around to take a look at a log or two to see what im fking up so bad in raid?
wispy crystal
can i check for my 2nd sTec in blades window, i should cast it ideally with SBLADES 2s remaining right?
since sTec has a cast animation for the hits to land and fully benefit from SBLADES 20% increased shadow damage?
lilac pendant
they buffed wax? i thoguht it was meme
tidal beacon
trying to increase my M+ aoe pack damage, should I be dropping rupture on multiple mobs?
distant mist
what cds + combo you guys using in a mini pack withou flag + blades?
woeful lance
what embelishment to get for sub
fringe lava
does anyone remember when i came and ask what to do on m forgeweaver with no knockback strat + being immune soak
rancid spade
im new to sub and i jsut did the first few pulls of dawnbreaker and only used eviserate i did good dps and now im confused on whether i should be using black powder on 4+ targets or eviserate.. do you guys have any tips.. ive been following the wowhead and icy veins guides
short radish
!aoe
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
pure pollen
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
wispy crystal
can i check for my 2nd sTec in blades window, i should cast it ideally with SBLA...
does anyone know if shadowblades buff sTEC hits to do more shadow damage too?
warm marlin
man its crazy how big of a difference it would make to my enjoyment if sectec were all one hit
short radish
ikr
warm marlin
I log on my mage and just obliterate some random trash mob for 70M in one hit
why can't sectec do this
short radish
because clones are cool and thematic to sub
warm marlin
while I do agree could just halve the physical portion of sectec to make it even weaker and combine the clones into one hit 0.5s after cast
would be nice
wispy crystal
does anyone know if shadowblades buff sTEC hits to do more shadow damage too?
So does shadowblades buff the clones ?
warm marlin
So does shadowblades buff the clones ?
yes
wispy crystal
!guide
wispy crystal
Gems and enchants, they make up a very small percentage in min maxing right?
I tried to sim my gems/enchants. But it just tells me to use the same gem in all slot.
E.g. mastery / crit instead of having a few different colour ones
warm marlin
you can click the 4+ colors option to force multiple colors
as far as I can tell there is no easy way to compare 4+ colors and all one color without running 2 topgears
wicked urchin
From looking at most top rogues it seems most if not all run 4 colours
The difference is very minimal though
warm marlin
it was a 10-20k loss trying different non 4+ colors combos for me
so not really worth looking into imo
wispy crystal
it was a 10-20k loss trying different non 4+ colors combos for me
Oh meaning using the exact same gem for all slots is only 10-20k?
That's like an auto attack swing
warm marlin
Oh meaning using the exact same gem for all slots is only 10-20k?
getting the color bonus from each color was 10-20k more dps than using exclusively 1 type of gem
chrome flax
what flask for raid and mythic?
short radish
how are we using netherprism?
!prism
wicked joltBOT
Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:
- If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
- If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
- If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.
tulip delta
!plater
tulip delta
I have a question.
How do I know when to use the black powder or the scissor for each pull?
shrewd lantern
I have a question.
How do I know when to use the black powder or the scissor for...
What's the scissor
glacial dust
what am i doing wrong? i can't seem to get my cold blood secret technique in my first shadow dance
always just a little bit off
tulip delta
Eviscerate
glacial dust
is it worth it to send cold blood on the first secret technique instead?
wild hornet
is it worth it to send cold blood on the first secret technique instead?
Technically no but you can do that for comfort
glacial dust
yeah i don't think i'm getting the damage by trying anyway 😅 gonna go ahead and macro, thanks homies
shrewd lantern
you wont get the second secret in your first dance
unless you get lucky with procs
wild hornet
Or if adds are going to die for example and there are none that'll spawn for the second one I'd say cb on first sec is also worth
tulip delta
What's the scissor
Eviscerate*
glacial dust
unless you get lucky with procs
that explains it, think i missed that in the guides 
sounded like it was a thing people could get consistently
glacial dust
bless, thanks for the help
shrewd lantern
coup is a 5 more pts evis so it gives you enough cdr to fit it
and even then sometimes you need to dance immediately after the first ends else your clone hit wont have amp from dance
Like you can see it in yoinka's frac kill
he got 4 coup casts in his first dance, thats not possible without resets
on unseen
vagrant fulcrum
to actually fit it
Tfd makes it a lot easier too
But ye without tfd you kinda have to highroll
vagrant fulcrum
If you get silly lucky with coup
shrewd lantern
yeah i mean
look at the frac log in question
he got god procs and barely just fit it
vagrant fulcrum
I’ve had it happen rarely, either way idk if it’s even notably better
Since you don’t necessarily get supercharger on it
shrewd lantern
I think only
if the clones hit
and yes it does get supercharged
if the clones hit before first dance is over it should be a gain
vagrant fulcrum
Good to know
shrewd lantern
because you're still at the end of a prior danse amp
idk i somehow dont think you can really pull it off without
maybe if you bank 14 sht
and get god procs
vagrant fulcrum
Ngl a lot of the time I have to immediately dance
shrewd lantern
Yeah pretty sure if you have to immediate dance off the last one
vagrant fulcrum
I don’t think I always fit it in the first dance (not talent, litterally)
shrewd lantern
you wont have danse stacks
shrewd lantern
since its a fresh one
shrewd lantern
Yeah what im thinking of is
the god tfd scenario
where the second one hits before the first dance ends
vagrant fulcrum
Best place to see this is deffo hard mode taza
shrewd lantern
brah
vagrant fulcrum
You start with infinite Sht and supercharger
shrewd lantern
are you gonna bank sht on a turnip
vagrant fulcrum
Xd
vagrant fulcrum
Yes litterally
shrewd lantern
yeah you'd have to bank 14 sht stack your sc
vagrant fulcrum
6 or 7 supercharger, max Sht, coup ready
shrewd lantern
then reset for the tfd dance
vagrant fulcrum
It goes crazy
vagrant fulcrum
It’s not and tbh for most of us
shrewd lantern
i should do it tbh
vagrant fulcrum
We’re fine just doing standard shot
shrewd lantern
on offchance i get myth pants
flat marsh
Is vanish + afk worth under any circumstances for tfd
random comet
Mayyyybe in some niche scenario going into CDs on a big pack if you’re being kept in combat by a straggler on a chain pull
But seems too niche to bother thinking about tbh
tawdry warren
How cringe is to macro dance + symbols having separate keybind for only symbols?
I've seen people saying its bad and at the same time couple of top sub keys were done with that macro
Also tea + sectec, same question
tepid trellis
0
tribal blade
0
fair enough
my guildies want to push so i'm playing
but i'm not planning on degening like before
tepid trellis
M+ is just too Big a time investment for me
tribal blade
agreed
tepid trellis
I say that while ive been thinking about going to 7 Day raiding
tepid trellis
Really just comes Down to clearing the raid earlier so that ive Got time for other stuff
short radish
Is vanish + afk worth under any circumstances for tfd
yes
based on my 
if the tank looks like they are about to chain
on mobs that are on 3% hp
its better to vanish and walk away
especially if you have a flag coming up
idle stream
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
idle stream
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.
real hare
!shadowcraft
I miss like 50% of my free cast, can somebody explain how it works, I have a WA that is making a sound at 7 stacks
lofty lance
lower ur spell que window
tepid trellis
I miss like 50% of my free cast, can somebody explain how it works, I have a WA ...
if stacks = 7 and you cast a finisher it will refund you full combo points
However Coup is "bugged" and essentially does 3 casts during its animation the latest being 0,9ish after the cast and they can all refund you combo points, if you hit the threshold during the animation
golden totem
short radish
wouldnt also be me pressing coldblood + sectech macro afterwards
only to have 0 combo points
and then i have to send cb on shadowstrike
wispy crystal
!logs
hi all, sorry im very new to logs. How can i see what i am doing wrong? my RL uploaded last nights logs and im a little lost where to see where i messed up
limpid sage
and then i have to send cb on shadowstrike
The pain
viscid urchin
I don't play cold blood because I can't stand having the same icon as a MAGE on my hot bar.
🤕
short radish
^
oblique burrow
!loot
wicked joltBOT
tall girder
Wooo fimb
tepid trellis
not w/e but not something to actively worry about really
warm marlin
@lucid jackal i think they need to deploy another bm buff
guy is unreal funneled though
limpid sage
since when?
Not true
warm marlin
719.75 with a delve belt on 
tepid trellis
only time i would actively give a rats ass about TFD is if im doing an 18 stack prism go
native zodiac
<@96834520417828864> i think they need to deploy another bm buff
We have 2 bms and the boss just melts in p3
robust dust
Hi. I saw in kush Stream that he told, that you should NOT use Backstab in dance as first builder IF no FW is on the mob. You should use shadowstrike instead to FW the mob. Is This correct?
limpid sage
Hi. I saw in kush Stream that he told, that you should NOT use Backstab in dance...
Yes
Or it is when you’re hitting from the front at least
robust dust
That means I will use backstab as second builder But only in SB window. Otherwise I will shadowstrike?
clever delta
I love the tunning
robust dust
Or it is when you’re hitting from the front at least
When hitting from behind you should use backstab?
clever delta
Mm was already broken so they decided to buff bm too
limpid sage
When hitting from behind you should use backstab?
I don’t know, but I know it’s a 1.1% increase to ignore backstab tech from the front when no FW
tepid trellis
That means I will use backstab as second builder But only in SB window. Otherwis...
you just skip it
robust dust
Tyvm guys
clever delta
There is some rng with black arrow even for BM apparently:D
And I fucking hate with aug
native zodiac
Nexus king?
clever delta
Yeah the amp
native zodiac
Stack sht to 14, have coup ready
warm marlin
Pooling properly required
native zodiac
Pray to jesus
warm marlin
Triple sectec in burn?
clever delta
Yeah
clever delta
We are far from kill anyway
limpid sage
Nothing worse than getting 0 double procs of UB
clever delta
I dont feel like holding orc racial
warm marlin
maghar is like a 5% gain in the burn fwiw
native zodiac
Its miserable how much unseen blades procs hold you back sometimes
warm marlin
Pretty big
clever delta
Our platforms are kinda rough
limpid sage
How do you guys get to 14 sht stacks though
warm marlin
symbols
limpid sage
Oh you just send it without anything?
tepid trellis
i just rupture the dragon after platform
and just let it stack while i sit at full cp
clever delta
With naked symbols ?
warm marlin
Oh you just send it without anything?
ye get some supercharger charges and stack sht fast
native zodiac
Ye you just sit there after platforms doing nothing until amp much
warm marlin
You get 3 in amp anyway
limpid sage
I’ll try to remember that
plush roost
Hmm maybe i was trolling being NE all season
clever delta
So you saying i should rupture drake press symbols and spam backstab till phase ?
warm marlin
you can prep predisorient as well
limpid sage
Hmm maybe i was trolling being NE all season
Ya but feels so good being able to apply FW whenever
warm marlin
some more flawless form stacks
plush roost
I dont even use meld for that, i use it for tfd and dodging casts in keys
clever delta
How do I prep that withnout proccing it after tho
warm marlin
Storm
plush roost
Storm and supercharged cancel aurs slice n dice
warm marlin
indeed
short radish
you can prep predisorient as well
wait so leave platform -> sectech boss -> only use shuriken storm as generators and rupture as finishers?
plush roost
I used to stack predisorient n stuff in dawnbreaker but now we do a pack during rash intermission xdd
plush roost
wait so leave platform -> sectech boss -> only use shuriken storm as generators ...
Leave, sectec -> sod -> ss and slice n dice cancel aura
short radish
holy fuck i hate and love this spec so much
plush roost
If u slice with supercharger, you get the bonus 3 cp without consuming the buff
limpid sage
OH
plush roost
Allowing u to cdr your sec tec in time
clever delta
Now I gotta grap that cancel aura snd macro 😄
short radish
this is acutally such criminal tech
plush roost
Its just
/cancelaura Slice and Dice
/cast Slice and Dice
Its funny on outlaw cause u have an 80% chance to be refunded 1 cp if cast at 1 cp so u can just mash snd between packs
If only outlaw wasnt complete beans
clever delta
Or you just ignore all te stuff above and send dance after platforms as gram and do r1 anyway 😄
warm marlin
wait so leave platform -> sectech boss -> only use shuriken storm as generators ...
i screwed up the burn sequence a bit here, should probably have been snd -> flag rupture or flag -> bp, but can get an idea of the prep. had a bit of worse rng than normal for the prep phase, normally get 14sht earlier and obv procced the burn
short radish
👍
makes sense
hopefully we get an early saladbar kill on wednesday
i really dont want to prog it for another whole day again
extended to not kill it this week 
clever delta
I don't want to go into no reclear prison with our rank
We saw last phase 3 times
So probably won't kill tonight
short radish
we're like borderline hall of shame ranking
so we tried an early extend
only to not make it
but to be fair our presvoker kinda lost internet 10minutes before raid on wednesday
so we had to swap from 3heal to 4heal at last minute
crystal oasis
Any reasons the sim sometimes wont send the 2nd cdg?
warm marlin
1st: tried to build to 6cp and couldnt in time
2nd: refreshing rupture was higher prio, then sectec was higher prio
tepid trellis
it probably failed to trigger the send at any cp flag
clever delta
we're like borderline hall of shame ranking
Same
warm marlin
the robot doesn't have one, it sends coup at 6cp like any other finisher
crystal oasis
Doesnt it? This feels like it was certainly not at 6+ cp
tepid trellis
thought eleem had it added
warm marlin
Doesnt it? This feels like it was certainly not at 6+ cp
it had an sht remaining after the backstab, so it almost certainly casted that coup at max cp
tepid trellis
open the html report and you can see
warm marlin
thought eleem had it added
maybe if it was recently but last i checked it still didnt consider the coup combo points as effective ones
tepid trellis
what cp it was sent at
warm marlin
machine learning
crystal oasis
Ok 4:12 didnt cast as flag with <20s left on cd
even though it was the 2nd cast, so just a wierd timing "bug"
vale pine
coup is an exception
the 2nd cast is allowed to be done on lower cp in the sim
or well both are ^^
warm marlin
ah I see the change 
tepid trellis
the robot doesn't have one, it sends coup at 6cp like any other finisher
knew i wasent schizo
warm marlin
it was recently changed 🙁
tepid trellis
living up to my details name
haughty rose
are loom and araz already pugable or should i not waste my extra myth vault slot for progress?
vale pine
who is schizo
haughty rose
i saw quite a few pugs going for loom+araz so i assume people at least try
vale pine
are loom and araz already pugable or should i not waste my extra myth vault slot...
first 2 should be pugable, everything after is hard to say
tepid trellis
who is schizo
just a running joke about people being schizophrenic in my guild
haughty rose
first 2 should be pugable, everything after is hard to say
yeah first two were incredibly easy with pug that's why i have hopes that the next 2 are doable already too
vale pine
loom is the first boss that needs more coordination
@tepid trellis how many m+ keys did you do this week?
tepid trellis
3
vale pine
oh, i thought you did a lot more haha
warm marlin
in my opinion loom is relatively low pug value. you are not going to pug araz for the second vault slot, and soulbinder already unlocks loom in vault. so your main benefit is the actual drops off the boss, and you very likely are not going to win antenna with 20 people rolling on it. as a rogue you will get the dagger, but anything else is unlikely
and its quite a bit harder than soulbinder
haughty rose
in my opinion loom is relatively low pug value. you are not going to pug araz fo...
i mainly want to do it for turbo boost in a couple weeks so i can simply buy antenna and maybe forge
sick sand
living up to my details name
That's dope, what key?
tepid trellis
priory
haughty rose
tbh simply by looking at pull counts araz is kind of the only obstacle to get to frac for myth netherprism. soul hunters is optional and frac seems rather "free" with 12-25 pulls on average
timid furnace
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
timid furnace
!mistakes
wicked joltBOT
Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:
- Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
- Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
- Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
- If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
flint surge
is there someone around that i can message for a few about sub? relatively new to rogue and struggling a bit
tribal blade
Its just
/cancelaura Slice and Dice
/cast Slice and Dice
jesus christ we play one of the sweatiest specs ever
good to know
are people doing similar stuff for other amps like araz
or is it only worth on saladbar
tribal blade
cool
limpid sage
maybe if it was recently but last i checked it still didnt consider the coup com...
oh so that's why I couldn't make an optimization around symbols being used when sectec cd <= effective cp
tribal blade
i could have sworn on dimensius you send a flag set on the final platform and it just barely comes back up for the amp
haven't looked at many povs though
limpid sage
or rather, it didn't turn out to be an optimization xd
flint surge
was there anyone that could give me like 5 mins of their time?
native zodiac
i could have sworn on dimensius you send a flag set on the final platform and it...
You take autumn otherwise its close yeah
tribal blade
You take autumn otherwise its close yeah
AHHH ok makes sense
native zodiac
Its possible if you push correctly without autumn too though
tribal blade
i was watching zac's pov and he had it lined up perfectly with their push timings
native zodiac
Just make sure you fly correctly from platform 1 to 2 so you can send cds asap
warm marlin
he did also have autumn
tribal blade
he did also have autumn
gotcha
tribal blade
nice!
warm marlin
I think double sectec in amp should be possible without but it’s gonna be close
tribal blade
mm yeah
limpid sage
I feel like it's impossible to fit cb sectec in dmg amp on dimensius unless you go flag->cds+sectec immediately
always comes down to the last second
tribal blade
i've definitely missed it every time on heroic
native zodiac
Stack 14 sht before and it fits
limpid sage
ye same here
lusty epoch
was there anyone that could give me like 5 mins of their time?
Just type here what you're wondering. And ofc go read the wowhead guide if you haven't
tribal blade
lol this stacking stuff is out of this world
i might start maybe doing some of this stuff in keys
flint surge
Just type here what you're wondering. And ofc go read the wowhead guide if you h...
its a lot to type in a general chat tbh didnt wanna flood this with my bad rotation issues
tepid trellis
lol this stacking stuff is out of this world
breakdown in my priory
did a 36mil coup cast
was quite large
vale pine
double on use or just prism?
tepid trellis
2x
tribal blade
breakdown in my priory
niiiice
tribal blade
got both at 723
this was the overall bricked right before last boss in 17 priory
we woulda been fine on time if the dk was doing real numbers
tepid trellis
this was the overall bricked right before last boss in 17 priory
imagine not doing 12+m
noob
tribal blade
imagine not doing 12+m
ikr /cry
vale pine
XD
tepid trellis
its called do a priory and just explode the packs
vale pine
^
tribal blade
unoptimized routes are a big thing yeah
tepid trellis
like i can burst like 50mil on 8 targets
oblique burrow
even on priory i do like 7M max
tepid trellis
very easily
vale pine
thats with a stacked up prism tho
vale pine
subtlety is all about optimizing burst
oblique burrow
i dont have forge either 🥲
tepid trellis
is 71m
oblique burrow
only lilly
tribal blade
i never look at details when i'm bursting so i honestly have no idea how much i'm bursting for
tepid trellis
shadow play 
tribal blade
haha true
oblique burrow
if you've got a good M+ guide video for sub i'd love it
vale pine
its rly all just cooldown management
don't hold cooldowns too long
and plan around your big windows
tepid trellis
i never look at details when i'm bursting so i honestly have no idea how much i'...
i almost 1 tapped myself in the prioy on the reflect mob
tribal blade
i almost 1 tapped myself in the prioy on the reflect mob
lol with sectec?
tribal blade
ohhhh damn
tribal blade
tank actually did left side on that 17
tepid trellis
not good for my health bar
tribal blade
i just sent cloak on the shield during cds
tepid trellis
and the funny bit was
tribal blade
at least we do such low dmg outside cds you're never in danger there smile
flint surge
im not understanding ST with sub at all, outside of my burst window i just do no dmg cuz im energy starved the whole time
tribal blade
haha classic
tribal blade
im not understanding ST with sub at all, outside of my burst window i just do no...
totally normal
tepid trellis
the entire spec is focused around shadow dances
flint surge
what are u guys doing on M+ bosses?
tepid trellis
if you arent in a dance
flint surge
pure ST
slate steeple
Hi would you rather evi into shadowdance and 8 or less target our black powd
wicked joltBOT
General Gist of the Aoe rotation
- At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
- At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
- Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
tribal blade
it's very similar to aoe, just you have much less cdr
tepid trellis
its actually not that much different
tribal blade
with how dance is on trickster yeah it's basically the same
just swap out evis and BP
vale pine
main diffrences is the use of black powder
flint surge
damn ok thats good to know atleast, im 712, stat weights are funky. feels like i understand my aoe burst decently well but i still only do like 6-7mil overall in 13s
vale pine
and you might just skip on doing backstab in dance
tepid trellis
it's very similar to aoe, just you have much less cdr
i meant this
atleast in sims
vale pine
dance cdr is rly bad
tribal blade
i meant this
ahhh right
tepid trellis
its like a 5% diff in uptimes
tribal blade
oh interesting
limpid sage
i just sent cloak on the shield during cds
It’s funny how everything in that dungeon is timed perfectly to either reflect our cb sectec or reduce the dmg from it xd
tepid trellis
which you typically aint always doing cuz there is some downtime
tribal blade
It’s funny how everything in that dungeon is timed perfectly to either reflect o...
i know it sucks /cry
flint surge
is 6-7mil at 712 in 13s pugs terribad?
vale pine
thats fine
astral compass
if u think we are wet noodles outside of dance, just play frost dk and come back to rogue. It will feel pretty good again kekw
tribal blade
is 6-7mil at 712 in 13s pugs terribad?
that's around what i see from people in that key level
flint surge
i did a 13 floodgate did 6.5m but some of the pulls were sus
runic trail
if u think we are wet noodles outside of dance, just play frost dk and come back...
Frost dks are nutty it feels like
flint surge
first pack i held over 25m
sacred gull
!coup
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
limpid sage
I mean overall is super dependant on tank as well
But you could probably squeeze out some more dmg
limpid sage
that on a +11 eco dome last boss iirc kill time was 2:10
Clapass
flint surge
what is the reasoning for every rogue i look up using different wep enchants?, also on a side note how important is prism? im currently using lily and antena
tribal blade
what is the reasoning for every rogue i look up using different wep enchants?, a...
depends on your stats
vale pine
i mean forge + prism too
flint surge
yeah i havent been lucky yet hopefully vault slides me one this week
tepid trellis
at mythic ilvl that fucker will give you like 68k mainstat every 3min
vale pine
2 min fight, forge is probably even stronger
tepid trellis
which is fcking insane
flint surge
i have WAY too much haste and not enough verse, been getting cooked with rings and my chest
tribal blade
lost myth prism to our hunter who is perma floor pov on boss fights
tepid trellis
insane in the sense that my character is 89k mainstat
vale pine
which is fcking insane
its a bit worrying tho, because we kinda only compete because of it ^^
tepid trellis
if they can buff bm while they were as good they were
they can buff sub too
trust
flint surge
im at 88% mastery, 16% verse, 28% crit and 10% haste
surely
native zodiac
Single target buff 
vale pine
i am actually kinda disgussted to know what they all gave arcane mage
tepid trellis
im at 88% mastery, 16% verse, 28% crit and 10% haste
crystal oasis
do we send prism at max stats or every 1:30 if we only have 1 on use
tepid trellis
why is arcane burst, funnel and execute?
cuz mage
azure thicket
they have no kicks
tepid trellis
the only class that doesent follow the class rules all other classes need to follow
tribal blade
on top of all the mage utility
don't forget how many defensives they have
latent crown
hello there, kinda new to sub, switching spec from assa cause i hate fatebound. Question: if i find myself with a coup proc outside cds, and i have more than 20 secs cd on next dance, do i hold the proc, or do i use it? And how do i buld cp for the second coup from tier set?
tribal blade
one of my favorite mage quotes from DF was "i have so many defensives i didn't know which one to hit so i hit nothing and died"
azure thicket
ye just invite a vdh p much
vale pine
i remember the articles about specs
and mage was like "we can't use all of our mobility"
as a negative
tepid trellis
hello there, kinda new to sub, switching spec from assa cause i hate fatebound. ...
send it, you only hold onto coup for major cds (flag/blades)
tribal blade
forget the fact that blink is the most OP mobility in the game
tepid trellis
and mage was like "we can't use all of our mobility"
mages just play a completely different game
tribal blade
and allows mage to negate half of raid mechanics
tepid trellis
like its not even close
latent crown
send it, you only hold onto coup for major cds (flag/blades)
thank you, i was usure about it. Much appreciated
tribal blade
the arcane mage in my guild was complaining that rogues are OP this tier
couldn't believe my ears
vale pine
arcane requires a phd and 2 additional prosthetic hands to even do damage on
tepid trellis
rogue could be bottom on statistics
plain jay
Wtf drugs is he on
oblique burrow
the arcane mage in my guild was complaining that rogues are OP this tier
LOL
plain jay
Can I get some
tepid trellis
and people would still think rogue is broken
tribal blade
ikr it's nuts
tribal blade
"rogue is OP on the important fights"
which is kinda fair point
but also
RWF stacking like 4-5 arcanes on fights
yeah
oblique burrow
yeah thats delusionnal at this point lol
vale pine
its called framing
oblique burrow
like they still had only one rogue
tribal blade
mega OP
tribal blade
on top of arcane being a mandatory dps in rank 1 keys
and it was incredibly busted in pvp, not sure about it post nerf
oblique burrow
Rl said he wanted me to swap to outlaw when i've got no weapons lol
tribal blade
max did say that was a mistake
true yeah he said they probably would have stacked more
tribal blade
lock is the sleeper most OP thing atm
oblique burrow
yeah
oblique burrow
especially on cleave fight
vale pine
i mean i mentioned it yesterday
tribal blade
haha true
oblique burrow
and spread target fights
tribal blade
you need 2 locks for dim right
tepid trellis
but they arevery good at killing adds in p1
tribal blade
or else you can't do that double gate to middle in P1
vale pine
these specs are for some reason 10% better than everyone else
oblique burrow
true
raw rover
guys im noob sub so i have noob question
tepid trellis
let me ask one
tawny zinc
is it harder than sub?
No
tepid trellis
he plays both sub and arcane
tribal blade
is it harder than sub?
i hear their priority system is not simple
vale pine
because, keep in mind just how much you don't need to do as ranged dps
tribal blade
doing the touch window is sweaty
vale pine
i hear their priority system is not simple
yes, but you can just like with outlaw
tribal blade
like sub cds
tawny zinc
i hear their priority system is not simple
Sunfury barrage conditions are pretty simple tbh
raw rover
after you open and you're done using all your cds. what do you do? refresh rupture > backstab / doomblade > evi / Secret T and then how do you play your next set of cds
tepid trellis
but for anyone playing arcane
asked a wr 30 raider that plays both
ill let you know when he responds
tribal blade
asked a wr 30 raider that plays both
hot
raw rover
so what do you do when you have 1 Symbols solo. or 1 Symbols and 1 Dance. etc
tribal blade
ill let you know when he responds
can you ping me in it too, i wanna see this
vale pine
i am actually curios
because the public expectation is
subtlety is easy
childs play even compared to the rocket science arcane is
but i keep hearing diffrent opinions from tc's than from the more general playerbase
plain jay
God then what do they consider sin then
vale pine
so very interessting
tribal blade
they did simplify arcane so i'm confused how arcane is still supposed to be that difficult
vale pine
God then what do they consider sin then
depends who you ask
quiet smelt
id say arcane is harder but not by much personal opinion
vale pine
a tc of a blue class we had a discussion in the past did say he always found assassination to be the hardest spec for rogue to play
plain jay
In what world
vale pine
which i found very surprising
tribal blade
sin has a few things that are actually difficult to use, mostly for me IC and playing deathstalker
but other than that the spec is pretty simple
vale pine
he even mentioned playing it during times
the rotation was "keep bleeds up, send cd's on cd"
tho i think it might be
just the amount of bleeds you need to track
plain jay
It's 2...
oblique burrow
it can be overwhelming for lots of ppl
plain jay
3 if m+
oblique burrow
it can be 3 tho
vale pine
exactly
tribal blade
yeah when i went back to playing sin last season it's a bit of cognitive load
but once you're used to it it's very chill
vale pine
i mean for me personally
its just about setting up weakauras
and its smooth sailing
tho i rly don't enjoy assassiantion
(but it got better, because it plays more like subtlety since df)
tribal blade
assassination feels so much worse than it needs to be in keys because you're playing with DS
vale pine
thats true
tribal blade
which automatically makes it feel horrible
vale pine
i think its rly difficult to objectively discuss whats hard/easy
e.g. stealthi had a very good point i think it was in SL or DF
DH was not exactly the hardest rotation wise but positioning and especially using your cc correct in keys aded a high level of skill
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
lethal lark
exactly
3 bleeds, Deathstalkers Mark, Darkest Night, Shiv.
It can be annoying. Especially when trying to target swap.
warm marlin
but for anyone playing arcane
Absolutely not right now
Sunfury is easy
Spellslinger was significantly more complex
Barrage conditions went from like 17 to 4
vagrant fulcrum
a tc of a blue class we had a discussion in the past did say he always found ass...
in a way having the choice to press nothing can be very profound yknow
pooling probably confused em
tribal blade
in a way having the choice to press nothing can be very profound yknow
actually a great point lol
"what do you mean don't press anything during globals"
"what is this wizardry"
vagrant fulcrum
unlike other classes our bottleneck isn't gcd
it's energy and cds
so we gota pick when to send our resources for max dam
it's why we end up holding on sub
and previously sin would get more out of pooling than not, s3 df was the last time it was relevant due to the tierset
tribal blade
i still pool now, is it fine to just spam? like when playing FB
shadow lance
My autism make me just pandemic envenom
tepid trellis
i think its rly difficult to objectively discuss whats hard/easy
havoc also just has builds that makes it 10x harder than their normal build, if you wanna play like fucking inertia felscarred for example vs the non mover one
vagrant fulcrum
lowkey if i know im gona have to pay attention to mechanics i'll zero out my energy then play the mechanic
tepid trellis
its just an insane jump in difficulty
shadow lance
Without capping energy, but it's not a gain
tribal blade
haha yeah that's a big bonus to playing sin during prog
tepid trellis
cus not all fights allow you to just rip inertia on cd when you need to
vagrant fulcrum
I will say havoc's difficulty curve is really interesting
at the very ceiling it's crazy high
tepid trellis
like watching a regular DH play
vagrant fulcrum
but baseline i'd argue it's an easier class
vagrant fulcrum
I played a key with frag in sl, he was streaming and after it my friends linked me the vid and said he talked about you
watched the vod
the way this guy played dathea trink, mobility and all
it was incredible
warm marlin
Playing the movement game properly is just an entirely unique factor of difficulty that no other spec has
vagrant fulcrum
there's a massive difference between a super good dh's mobility usage and the average guy too
tepid trellis
ive been watching him play inertia fel
on dimensius
and its ehm
interesting
xD
vagrant fulcrum
dh of all classes is the one closest to wiping the raid at any time tbh
tepid trellis
where most just play 0 mover and just stand still
this dude is just dashing around with angles and doing dmg that should be nerfed
tepid trellis
i see the fucker finish at like 6mil in p1
shadow lance
That's my gameplay
tepid trellis
momentum was the reason i started playing it on its release
vagrant fulcrum
I love it, it's why i've not picked it up this season due to no mover meta
or so I hear
last time I played it was s3 df, it cranked
tepid trellis
i hear that inertia is the highest ceiling
but also yeah
alot harder to pull off
but the exergy version is there as well
vagrant fulcrum
it's super satisfying though, lots of small dmg windows to optimise
shadow lance
I play DH when I want to chill
tepid trellis
which is alot simpler ofc
shadow lance
Not went I want to play a mini sub spec
tepid trellis
but tbf thats how balancing should be for DH, you have the No mover which is pretty strong and then you have the inertia/exergy being like 1% stronger
peak balancing
shadow lance
Or i should spam it a few weeks to be used to it more and try to play jnertia
shadow lance
Exergy* isn't just a 20 sec buff permanent?
shadow lance
Really? Wowhead guide say press it on cd
tepid trellis
initiative
shadow lance
Yes, this one
I know you want it on your combo
In M+
But nothing said for ST AR
tepid trellis
i just echo hawwk
tepid trellis
side note, fuck aldrachi
shadow lance
I like glaives, I don't care about souls, I don't like mark
tepid trellis
love hitting a pack waiting to proc glaive
watch half the pack die
then i proc it
-.-
then the next pull
i proc 1 million souls
tepid trellis
dont enjoy the rng behind it
so i mostly just play fel
in m+
demon surge goes brrrt
tepid trellis
just immo aura and ragefire and demon surges
i like the on demand burst it has
where as aldrachi is just a consistent pump
tepid trellis
aldrachi funnel is crazy
shadow lance
Yes, really strong
vale pine
this dude is just dashing around with angles and doing dmg that should be nerfed
Dh feels rly good this season for sure
shadow lance
We gonna do the qualifier with guildies
I'm still wondering if I should play rogue or dh
vale pine
dont enjoy the rng behind it
its just like coup procs ^^
tepid trellis
shit quality new one
vale pine
i can't wait for next xpac
shadow lance
Demonsurge goes boom
vale pine
the new spec spams eye beam apperently
tepid trellis
collapsing star
vale pine
so damage breakdown will be "eye beam" all on top?
tepid trellis
about to go crazy
shadow lance
Can't wait to see that
tepid trellis
its gonna be my alt for splits
wispy crystal
When using Shadowdance, should we symbols first or dance -Then symbols?
tepid trellis
Notstealthi the devourer
pastel rampart
devour deez...
wispy crystal
Oh right 👍🏻 then how come we don't macro dance + symbols together ?
alpine wraith
you symbols to supercharge sec tech
raw rover
from what im reading in the guide we dont really throw out solo Symbols or Dances right?
alpine wraith
regardless of when you dance
raw rover
we always wait until they are almost all back up and chain everything?
alpine wraith
you do sometimes throw symbols and sec tech but not often
shadow lance
we always wait until they are almost all back up and chain everything?
You can send a sod > sectech
raw rover
you do sometimes throw symbols and sec tech but not often
ok so besides the times where you just toss a sec tech out
is it kinda like the naked shiv in Sin?
alpine wraith
yea usually you combine those
shadow lance
But when you out of dance and gonna cap sod if you sit on it
vale pine
Oh right 👍🏻 then how come we don't macro dance + symbols together ?
supercharger, you typically want to use symbols to get supercharger for the secret techniques in your 2nd shadow dance in the 90 second sequence
which isn't always possible when macroing
shadow lance
is it kinda like the naked shiv in Sin?
In less recurrent but yes
wispy crystal
supercharger, you typically want to use symbols to get supercharger for the secr...
Ah okay. For the 2nd secret technique ideally we use it at the end before dance ends so we build up danse stacks ?
tepid trellis
nope
raw rover
ok so after you are done with opener; just cruise your downtime and kinda wait on everything again?
tepid trellis
rip it when ready
shadow lance
Ah okay. For the 2nd secret technique ideally we use it at the end before dance ...
When cd is up
You'll be at max dance stacks btw
Thing is you wanna send SecTech on cd
raw rover
cuz in Sin you throw opener > solo kingsbane > full opener again
so im basically asking if we do something like that here as well
wispy crystal
i was seeing this rotation.
so the 2nd secret technique comes right at the end with cold blood?
tepid trellis
sectech is the engine that fuels our coup d'état
shadow lance
so im basically asking if we do something like that here as well
Yep
vale pine
so im basically asking if we do something like that here as well
you kinda do the opener every 90 secs, but you need to manage cooldowns
give me a sec
shadow lance
Opener, 2 naked dance, opener, 2 naked dance
tepid trellis
i was seeing this rotation.
so the 2nd secret technique comes right at the en...
press it when its up, thats the tech
if that first finisher then so be it
if its 3rd
then so be it
important part is to get it used asap
to generate more coup casts
wispy crystal
press it when its up, thats the tech
Ok, the more I look at the screenshot I got more confused.
Ahhhh so as long as it's available during dance.
Supercharge it and press sTec right away
We don't have to overthink danse stacks right ?
tepid trellis
dm stacks
tepid trellis
is not something we give a rats ass about
shadow lance
We don't have to overthink danse stacks right ?
No, i don't even track it for exemple
vale pine
outside of backstab in dance ^^
tepid trellis
its just a passive dmg increase tied to dance
wispy crystal
No, i don't even track it for exemple
Okay ignore danse stacks, will focus on proper rotation instead
tepid trellis
that plays itself if played correctly
shadow lance
Yep
vale pine
that plays itself if played correctly
unless you do this masterpiece
#subtlety message
tepid trellis
banned
shadow lance
unless you do this masterpiece
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/3...
I remember it
wispy crystal
unless you do this masterpiece
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/3...
My brain hurts looking at this
vale pine
you would be surprised
it isn't that uncommon for new players to try to get as high stacks as possible
vale pine
so even tho i obviously did it as a joke
it seems quite natural for many to think of it as a vector to optimize for
wispy crystal
it seems quite natural for many to think of it as a vector to optimize for
I used to think that way. Glad it was clarified in this discord ☺️
vale pine
a lot of things are non obviouse knowlage
secret for example
is the heavy hitter for us
but is a 3 part attack with delayed clone attacks
so going from the above, many would want to use secret last gcd in dance
haughty rose
this makes me wanna try the highest possible sec tec by farming as much danse macabre stacks as possible. has anyone tried this?
vale pine
but doing so is rly bad, because ... the delay is more than one global on the last hit of the spell
wispy crystal
so going from the above, many would want to use secret last gcd in dance
Ya that's what I thought too for maximum danse stacks
wispy crystal
but doing so is rly bad, because ... the delay is more than one global on the la...
We want to make sure that sTec also lands before our blades end right?
So like 2-3 seconds before make sure we send it out ?
limpid sage
We want to make sure that sTec also lands before our blades end right?
ye but that comes naturally
vale pine
we want to use secret as soon as possible during cooldowns
wispy crystal
Sometimes my sTec hasn't cooldown and blades has 6 seconds left, so can only send sTec at the final 2-3 seconds of blades.
vale pine
to generate cdr, flawless form stack and proc disoriented strikes
you only send secret in dance
glacial kraken
a lot of things are non obviouse knowlage
how to use Secret Technique properly shouldn't be obvious smh smh
vale pine
but you should use dance back to back during blades
wispy crystal
you only send secret in dance
If dance is on cooldown we don't press symbols + sTec at all?
vale pine
how to use **Secret** Technique properly shouldn't be obvious smh smh
shadowcraft/shadow techniques is similarly confusing
wispy crystal
but you should use dance back to back during blades
Okay got it. Usually my 2nd sTec is with my 2nd dance.
Even with TFD I can't fit the 2nd sTec in
vale pine
If dance is on cooldown we don't press symbols + sTec at all?
no, we stack cooldowns
glacial kraken
shadwocraft makes shadow techniques so much more enjoyable
wispy crystal
no, we stack cooldowns
Okay stack cooldowns, and start pooling combo points about 10 to 20s before right?
vale pine
you can usually use symbols/dance with ~10-12 sec left on secret cooldown or when secret is up
round plover
I've recently swapped over to Sub from Assassination, I can proudly say I dont have any idea what I'm doing most of the time, but the DPS has increased and I'm having the time of my life
wicked joltBOT
Coup de Grace Optimizations:
- **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
- Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
- Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
vale pine
which is the first optimizations mentioned here
wispy crystal
you can usually use symbols/dance with ~10-12 sec left on secret cooldown or whe...
Yes that's correct. This is usually for the 2nd dance in blades window.
Stec usually has a few seconds remaining on CD
vale pine
but inherently, you just send 2x dance back to back during 90 sec cooldowns
wispy crystal
you pool sht stacks ~10 sec before the 90 sec cooldowns
Damn I'm so enlightened now. Been sending random dances 25s before blades come off Cd.
And end up have only 1 charge for blades go
vale pine
and then 1-2 times between these 90 sec windows
(with some wiggle room due to starting with 3 stacks of symbols)
glacial kraken
Important sub rule is just not to press your buttons sometimes
wispy crystal
and then 1-2 times between these 90 sec windows
Nice I got it now!
So usually when blades is 25s to 30s out.
We start building back dance charges and do nothing right
I have a habit of just sending the dance and symbols sTec because 25s of doing nothing... Feels real bad
vale pine
Important sub rule is just not to press your buttons sometimes
think that's dangerous
wispy crystal
!guide
vale pine
stealthi already mentioned log reviews
glacial kraken
well don't over-correct in the other direction ofc
vale pine
and for m+
its very common for people to wait and sit on their shadow blades / flagellation
glacial kraken
@wispy crystal what were u playing before sub?
vale pine
worse i saw was 2-2.5 minutes of not using it
wispy crystal
<@224453575693172737> what were u playing before sub?
Assas
glacial kraken
that does seem like a very new player thing of being scared on not having your stuff for something else
having a bad sense of the pace of the dungeon
vale pine
not using your 90 sec cooldown for 120-150 sec is a obviouse mistake, but its easy to do if you think "i need a good setup/pull to use it"
wispy crystal
So as a general rule of thumb, when do we wanna start saving our CDs, when blades/flag is 25s to 30s out?
Like the cooldown on it
At what point should we start preparing to have 2 dance and 2 symbols for it
vale pine
you want to have 1 stack and 30 sec of dance for your flag/blades
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 30 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
glacial kraken
lmao
vale pine
thats something similar ^^
wispy crystal
you want to have 1 stack and 30 sec of dance for your flag/blades
1.5 charges on shadow dance okay got it.
Anything less and I gimp my rotation right ?
wispy crystal
you won't generate enough cdr on dance
I see. It's all coming together now
Usually if I stop using dance around the 30s cooldown left on blades.
wispy crystal
It's usually enough to give me 1.5charges assuming I'm rupturing and using Evis
glacial kraken
should be nightblade tho smh
vale pine
haha +1 this
just rename it to nightblade
make it shaodw damage by default too
just for the fun of it
glacial kraken
i should make a macro that just uses the same icon to trick myself
vale pine
think stealthi uses that icon in his weakaura set
not sure if still, but did for a while
glacial kraken
the whole thing of making more parts of the class shared has been so dumb
all the rogue specs already kept the same core idea
vale pine
i mean it only went so far
glacial kraken
its not like they are that disimilar
vale pine
blizz went heavily back on sharing assassiantion stuff
vale pine
i love the term framing lately
you know what it means?
putting something in a diffrent perspective
glacial kraken
ye
wispy crystal
A question:
If we Shadowstrike and land on 4 combo points during dance (no blades),
Do we Shadowstrike again to get full CP or send a 4 CP eviscerate?
vale pine
what does vanish with subterfuge do?
hazy breach
A question:
If we Shadowstrike and land on 4 combo points during dance (no bla...
Finish at 6+ 
glacial kraken
i get waht u mean fuu
vale pine
what does vanish with subterfuge do?
right:
6 sec of the "use of stealth spells"
astral compass
i was seeing this rotation.
so the 2nd secret technique comes right at the en...
why should you use shadow blades before the st?
vale pine
also dance has 2 charges
wispy crystal
Finish at 6+ <:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
Ok always 6CP got it
vale pine
which was exclusive to subtlety
vanish now has 2 chargers in the general tree too
if anything subtlety got even less unique
scarlet oyster
Finish at 6+ <:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
on the same topic, outside of dance, with a coup ready, do we backstab or shuriken on ST, knowing that we don't have an unseenready (but maybe a thousands cut proc)
vale pine
because shadow dance and vanish are exchangable in how they function for non subtlety
its just a diffrent name and icon
so question is
does this mean they went back on their decision?
i lean towards saying no^^
vale pine
on the same topic, outside of dance, with a coup ready, do we backstab or shurik...
backstab between coup uses
vale pine
tbh i think visual clarity in general is... not that good
keen dome
I agree, we need more purple
keen dome
That's a good amount of purple
wispy crystal
If I get a coup proc 20s before my next blades/flag window.
Do I hold it?
Then use Dance-Symbols- backstab-sTec-evis (use coup proc) ?
astral compass
wearing a red transmog
show it, we gonna rate it
vale pine
show it, we gonna rate it
wispy crystal
I'm just wondering what do I do if I get a coup proc about 20s before my big CDs are ready?
Hold or just send it ?
vale pine
should be still very similar to that one
wispy crystal
Because sometimes backstabbing gives coup proc
vale pine
I'm just wondering what do I do if I get a coup proc about 20s before my big CDs...
you can hold coup for up to 20 sec max
which does not mean stop using spells for 20 sec
wispy crystal
you can hold coup for up to 20 sec max
Okay 20s got it.
Outside of that I'll just use the proc without dance right?
vale pine
just to be clear
well 20 sec before flag/blades
you would not hold else
towards visual clarity, melee is rly hard to see/understand many times
wispy crystal
you would not hold else
Okay. So hold coup only 20s before blades/flag is ready
vale pine
and the low melee range can be punishing for that
wispy crystal
We wanna start our Shadow Dance with no combo points right?
So ideally 20s before our burst window, just spend it all on rupture or black powder ?
hazy breach
We wanna start our Shadow Dance with no combo points right?
So ideally 20s bef...
No, you sit at full cp
wispy crystal
so dance-secret is a perfectly fine option
Oh okay!
Dance symbols secret, then Shadowstrike Evis
hazy breach
Because youll rupture right after flag
wispy crystal
Because youll rupture right after flag
AAHHH yes the rupture !!
Flag - rupture
Dance - symbols
Backstab - Blades
Stec
Shadow strike - Evis
Rinse and repeat