subtlety

[fossil forge]

Ive screamed at my premade tank so many times after bro cancels my tfd on. 1 sec bro asks now If he can pull

[short radish]

i just stand super far away

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/this-gif-4354544

[short radish]

and if you get put in combat

you didnt stand far enough away

[fossil forge]

Is it worth to always wait for it to refresh though

[short radish]

my feelycraft says it is

and it feels better as well

[fossil forge]

i feel like i can spam dance and symbols more

If i wait for it

[dusty totem]

It is not worth for group the wait

[short radish]

you miss out on like

[dusk stone]

ive meant to ask, do we know what the actual conditions for TFD and/or stealth are. I was in an ara kara and tank pulled mobs after a pack died, as long as I didn't engage it i was fine

[short radish]

2-3 globals

usually

[hazy breach]

Its only bosses

[dusty totem]

but if u get the restealth just wait it out

[hazy breach]

Bosses put you in combat regardless

But for non-boss you can just stand afk and wait

[short radish]

bosses still have range

you can even outrange eco dome last boss

[dusty totem]

Bro getting locked out of boss room fr fr

[short radish]

just dont get locked out

[timid rivet]

Sorry to bother guys, i'm just lost about antenna or forge. I've played antenna + prism since 2 weeks but idk what is better ? in raid for example i've see a lot of ppl here say forge / antenna is even except 2 last boss forge is better ? Atm i've prisme antenna hero and 1 forge champ (didnt tried it got it yesterday in timewalker chest) and in vault just got antenna myth idk if i've to pick up or champ forge ? in m+ is it even like in the 6 first bosses ? Looks like can't sim it because antenna is way better in dungeon slice compared to forge but all ppl play forge

[vale pine]

rly depends on the target

[hazy breach]

Its just based on combat

But combat is often janky, just stay a bit away and youll be fine most of the time

[dusk stone]

so if for example a tank pulls a mob while i'm in stealth and TFD timer is running, what's going to happen? is it distance related because I feel like it is

[hazy breach]

Nothing

[dusk stone]

if a dot goes on me i'm in combat, if i have a dot on an enemy thats probably also combat

[hazy breach]

As long as you dont enter combat

[short radish]

gotta LoS as well

[dusk stone]

people around here have different opinions but i'm for antenna/prism just because you're not losing a lot of passive stat and you retain flexibility with 9 or 18 prism

i dont know why casual is running forge

but yeah TFD itself is another thing that is kinda absurd to explain how it works and to get people to get it work for new sub rogues

and explaining when to vanish or not knowing what the tank is doing for it as well

[hazy breach]

Idk youre making it sound way more complicated than it is

Just sit in stealth until the timer has ticked down

It also doesnt matter that much

[sick ocean]

Anyone can send me SB + Unyielding Netherprism macro ? been trying to /use 13 and /cast SB but while in combat only SB is casting

[lusty tangle]

is it worth it during burst to use black poweder in ST for an addition stack of Dance Macabre ?

[hazy breach]

No

[dusk stone]

im just thinking through the lens of the arcane mage in my group and just a lot of things would fall into the category of "I cbf" and i feel like he's fairly represenative of the wow population. He's played for years, chases the meta, isn't bad at the game but when he tried sub he just didn't like it

[lusty tangle]

just work with 5 stacks in st than ?

[hazy breach]

Just dont think about it at all

No need to track

[lusty tangle]

k ty for the quick reply

[lavish rose]

i just rolled for 5 hero pieces in a pug on my havoc dh. i think blizz is trying to say something

[timid rivet]

Ok i see, thinking the same but the double use looks big too in m+ cause we have 18 prism everytime, with antenna we just send 9 always
But maybe overall just 723 antenna is better than forge 704, will maybe wait if i got hero forge on reclear

[dusk stone]

you can 18 prism every time with passive trinket as well

you dont actually gain anything from it unless its big momma

it actually hits harder too

[gloomy cradle]

are you guys putting forge/netherprism in a macro with blades? or are u pressing trinkets manually now? I'm unsure

[alpine wraith]

i wonder did anyone check if wax gets buffed by the raid thing this week?

[dusk stone]

can anyone explain to me what the best use of nado is?

i've using it to spread rupture when i dont have a lot of time on a gather, or at the ass end of a gather or for CDR but idk whats best

[haughty mural]

I couldn’t because I’ll never use it (:

[lilac stag]

Not choosing it is best

[haughty mural]

Based

[timid rivet]

Its not a waste to burst without prism and delay it for full stack ?

[alpine wraith]

tornado is for cdr mainly

you can also prep a better dance if your SoD charges are kinda empty

you sec tech then tornado

[dusk stone]

its the same thing with forge, you just dont notice because its a 3 minute trinket. What can safely said is that forge + prism is better prio and probably less overall

[alpine wraith]

then enter the dance with 2 unseens

maybe use 1 or 2 before

[lilac stag]

How was vault?

[dusk stone]

anytime you're not using something it can theoretically be a loss

[haughty mural]

I’ll know when I return from work late afternoon
(If I return at all)

How was yours ?

[lilac stag]

Priory Ring

had antenna but can eventually buy it

[haughty mural]

That’s a good one

Yea can defo buy it

[dusk stone]

i got mythic pacemaker so heroic antenna is sadly worse lol

[haughty mural]

And I will - to release me from this double on-use hell

[dusk stone]

i will get to try this magic forge thing in the .5 i guess

[lilac stag]

Why are sad at an upgrade

[dusk stone]

because i want to mess around with it, see if the orbs can be stacked

no point if its generally worse

[short radish]

They can

[lilac stag]

I started messing with prism/signet 2x in keys.

[haughty mural]

How did that go ?

Sounds kinda

[vestal escarp]

Finally a good vault 🥹

[haughty mural]

Idk I don’t like signet

[lilac stag]

It’s actually not bad. You have agility all the time and the mastery is decent while prism stacks

I just don’t have anything else super useful

[haughty mural]

Meanwhile me not having much mastery lately

Yea I always forget the passive agility value nowadays

[lilac stag]

Lfr forge had a bit more umph, but dances outside of blades felt better

[haughty mural]

Can imagine

My dances outside of blades sometimes feel really horrible

[acoustic matrix]

Hi guys, just had an idea and wondered why it wasn't popular in guides. why don't we use shuriken toss in blades for dance macabre ?

[lilac stag]

You can instead of storm between coups

but the DM part just isn’t worth it

[timid rivet]

you think antenna prism is better overall than forge prism ? And ye idk looks strange to not use prism on every burst window if you dont have forge to replace it i'm using prism every burst window with antenna but looks like i'm wrong

[acoustic matrix]

6% damage increase for the whole dance seems huge tho no ?

[plucky parrot]

Opportunity cost of losing the damage of a shadow strike to do so

When you only have so many globals you can fit into dance it’s not worth it

[lilac stag]

People already struggling to get 8 globals in dance.

[haughty mural]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[plucky parrot]

• delaying additional EB stacks through UB procs to build towards another coup in cds

[haughty mural]

You see it’s pretty neutral

(If there is no amp or giga pull)

So you could use it on every burst beside the first

[alpine wraith]

you could game the system and see if you have good procs or not

like if you get a disc belt going and maybe some wep enchants

you send or save for 3 mins

[lilac stag]

right now trying to figure out kill times on the fly each week is enough to worry about.

[timid rivet]

ok i see thanks!

[wheat elk]

got lily and pacemaker now, any suggestions?

[vale pine]

prism is the best sub trinket in existence

[dusk stone]

well how realistically it is to do so, what the rules are and etc

[graceful osprey]

Hmmm, antenna and prism sims better, but any fights where forge and prism pull ahead?

[short radish]

works the same way as ironfur

[alpine wraith]

the balls follow for 15 secs too

so you can game them a bit

if you are about to enter cds

or if already in cds go get them faster

[hazy breach]

20s

[alpine wraith]

even better

[dusk stone]

forge gives 32k stat that depreciates, its 24k for all intents and purposes during your burst, with 2k crit passve. this is every other on use. Antenna gives you 8k passive stat for that entire duration + the crit orbs when you get them. I did some napkin math and you are behind like 50% on stats by the 3 minute mark (right before you'd use it again) with just the passive stat considered, not even the crit from orbs

granted keys don't work like this and forge has a multiplicative value because its strictly during your burst. Whats good about it is during that short amount of time you gain a lot more agency over what dies

[dusty totem]

Does anyone have a weakaura that tracks the antenna orbs duration left before the despawn?

[alpine wraith]

it is a buff on you so it is easy to know

[dusty totem]

Ahh okay nice

[dusk stone]

thats hilarious, there's an enchant you can take that saps yours haste

[fossil forge]

i have a wa that counts the orbs and the remaining time to collect them

send it in a bit

Or just open wago and type antenna

[spare quiver]

!spreadsheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[dusk stone]

i came up with this today after doing a bunch of sims

not sure if i got it to sim right or what but crit kept simming better for keys until i put the ring on i ran it 2-3 times with vers pot just to be sure and vers pot wouldn't sim higher than crit pot for Dslice. my gems sim higher for mastery so there's room for sure

[vagrant thorn]

sucks parsing on Sub, last season was my first time playing Fury and I got orange and pink parses in heroic np, rogue is my main and I'm barely over 80 average

too many tryhards and too easy to get screwed with timings

[sour marsh]

do u guys use SOD in a Dance makro ?

[cursive vapor]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[sour marsh]

ok nvm ^^

ty

[dusk stone]

i do yes, but i also have sod and dance bound seperately as well

[native zodiac]

what a vault

mythic prism + forge gang

[dusk stone]

grats

[lilac stag]

There’s very little thinking with fury CDs. Welcome to aligning CDs and sniping adds before someone else does.

[vagrant thorn]

🙁

[lilac stag]

Fury you’re just worrying about breaking your wrist

[vagrant thorn]

yep 🙂

[lilac stag]

Try outlaw

Arms enjoyers tend to enjoy sub

[fair cloak]

On hc which carnisters have many adds 2nd or 3th?

And when i need to send cds to 2nd tech adds

[lilac stag]

Should be the set of 4 around 2:30. look at lorrgs

[alpine wraith]

adds get released at around 2 mins so you hold the 1:30 blades

[fair cloak]

Kk thx all

One thing i sometimes get cup outside dances

[alpine wraith]

dont go get cups

play the game between dances

[fair cloak]

After first 3-4 CP one how do i building CP for another

Aometimes i get it from backsgabs

[alpine wraith]

you can pool a bit of energy before sending the first one

so you can coup stab coup

but it was neutral or whatever

[hazy breach]

You can send coup at not 6+

[alpine wraith]

to send the second with what you have yea

[fair cloak]

Okk thx

[vagrant thorn]

no I enjoy playing sub, just suck at parsing it

[signal moth]

have we been buffed or what?

why am i now doing 100x more damage, or did i hit some stat weight lol

was doing 30m in pulls, got mythic tier (from heroic) havent even upgraded it and on reset im now doing 50m on the same pulls lol

[remote shuttle]

Pvp buff 6%

[signal moth]

did they put it on us in pve lol

[remote shuttle]

-5% blades extra dmg

[remote shuttle]

It's blizz... Everything can be

[alpine wraith]

that would be so fun

imagine

but very unlikely

[karmic harbor]

you're beginning to believe...

we can go further

[clever delta]

Rich getting richer

[graceful osprey]

Same, for me, a blue or purple parse is good enough for me

[karmic harbor]

cant believe i didnt get forgeweaver trinket in vauld

[native zodiac]

I actually have mythic antenna, forge and prism lmao

Been insanely lucky this tier

[hazy breach]

Still rocking the 704 prism

And were not reclearing so

Its joever

[tardy panther]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[clever delta]

Im rocking forge from tww cache

[karmic harbor]

are you 7/8?

[hazy breach]

yes

[vagrant thorn]

just pug hc raid at least, i got a hero one today :p

[native zodiac]

Ye we arent either, boss dies this week

[hazy breach]

I mean yeah i do

[alpine wraith]

i went from lfr to mythic

crazy upgrade

[hazy breach]

But cant do much if it doesnt drop

On our 2 mythic kills weve gotten 4 boots from him

Love that

[vagrant thorn]

but it's kinda crazy to think that you're simply not gonna be reclearing anymore with 6 months left of the season.. damn ;o is it that taxing on people?

[tardy panther]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[native zodiac]

Should have seen our soul hunter loot, 6 kills 0 leather boots

[karmic harbor]

its for world rank

[native zodiac]

And im the only leather guy with normal

[hazy breach]

As in, were not reclearing until dimensius dies

[karmic harbor]

if you dont need gear you just extend

[vagrant thorn]

oooooooh, not ever :p

[lilac pendant]

!trinkets

[vagrant thorn]

I mean then it's not joever!!

🙂

[native zodiac]

How far are you into dim @hazy breach ?

[lilac pendant]

[hazy breach]

Only done 1 night so still in p1

Weve just figured out how to suck our friends of, but now theres only 2 sucks and not 3

So should be easy

[native zodiac]

Ah alright, they nuked p1 now

[lilac pendant]

how do i use this 2 trinkets?

[vagrant thorn]

howd you do that cut lol

[native zodiac]

We got to p2 p2 once so we should be able to kill p quickly this week

[tribal blade]

press 1 at random and hope for the best

[lilac pendant]

[tribal blade]

use forge on pull

[alpine wraith]

basically use forge then prism etc

[tribal blade]

then prism

then rotate

[lilac pendant]

does the order in macro mather-?

[alpine wraith]

first forge

[lilac pendant]

or i have to make 2 macros

[alpine wraith]

you need a diff bind for prism usually

[tribal blade]

i just have 2 seperate binds now with blades

[lilac pendant]

okkk

[alpine wraith]

because if you hold for like 20 secs sometimes forge is off cd

and it would use that one

instead of a 18 stack prism

[lilac pendant]

ty cutie

[alpine wraith]

that would be quite bad

[scenic plover]

another vault another socket

[regal sky]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[brisk thunder]

Does dance backstab guarantee find weakness(without the rotten talent)?

[hazy breach]

No

[brisk thunder]

Then if we pop our burst, dont have find weakness ready and dont have globals to fit in shadowstrikes due to CP refunds, do we just send evis or coups even without find weakness applied?

[hazy breach]

If you dont have find weakness up (but you generally should have it up) then youd skip backstab and strike instead

[brisk thunder]

As the first CP generator in dance? K that makes sense thx

[hazy breach]

yes

[short radish]

i've been made to use vers flask for nexus king

[dusk stone]

wow thats actually real

[oblique burrow]

why do we need to spend more than 6 combo points ?

[dusk stone]

when tank chain pulls you lose less overall on wcl logs

[signal moth]

cause we can

[oblique burrow]

i dont see any talents which specify using more than 5

if we send on 5 its an error then?

[vital ocean]

how big is the prism + forge vs prism + antenna (all myth)

the sim seems abit weird

thinking for raid

[clever delta]

We had two leather boots dropped i did not get either, boomie prio. And forge got SP over me :))

Love some fair loot council 😄

[signal moth]

druids shouldnt get loot

[native zodiac]

Rip

[oblique burrow]

it's more than 5 so 5+ not 6+

[native zodiac]

Boomi is wild over rogue on boots

[oblique burrow]

we have this in assa too, and we can send on 5

[lilac stag]

5+ means 5 or more

6 is the number

[oblique burrow]

yeah, but why is it different than for assa rogue then?

[lilac stag]

Assa also has fucked up multilates

[oblique burrow]

we dont send on 6+ we send on 5+

[dusk stone]

energy iirc

sht too

[lilac stag]

math is gonna math. For sub it’s 6

Envenom simulator likely doesn’t care about the finisher part

[signal moth]

i send on 1

[bold spoke]

what i do ?

[signal moth]

you sim it

[bold spoke]

ye but idk if i worth take the trinket or no

[signal moth]

sim it

number up = worth

number down = not worth

dps is easy

[dusk stone]

the gloves probably or trinket

you have haste, haste is bad stat

move shoulders to something else

[sly shore]

@leaden prairie How do you say "A Seal pushed me into a shower" in French?

[lilac stag]

Trinket you can’t reproduce. Gloves are easier to get mythic ilvl on

Lily is very good

[dusk stone]

yeah thats true

you can cata gloves anyway

[sour marsh]

anyone got an idea why i do like 22 mill on dummys in one pull and in the next 33 ?

i do exact the same stuff

[lilac stag]

doubtful

[sour marsh]

xD

[lilac stag]

Rng is gonna rng as well

[signal moth]

coup procs lol

[sour marsh]

but sub rng?

[lilac stag]

Huge

[dusk stone]

we dont know what you're doing so we cant really say

[sour marsh]

ye ofc

[signal moth]

blame the healers

[lilac stag]

Which is why I doubt you’re doing the exact same

[sour marsh]

thats a plan ^^

[void ocean]

is there a more annoyin thing than 2. coup falling out of the Dance

[signal moth]

aids?

[lilac stag]

3?

[signal moth]

you know when youre mid cds but you get an itchy nose

that is more annoying

[void ocean]

no, nobody aided me

[dusk stone]

you ignore the nose and save the parse

[signal moth]

and then you also sneeze

[void ocean]

and waste all that cocaine

[wheat elk]

do i play lily with netherprism or pacemaker

[signal moth]

feels bad bro

[void ocean]

dw, u'll get it

[dusk stone]

only 1 month away

[void ocean]

I've never had more loot luck than this season in my life

[dusk stone]

its honestly worth considering to make a split rogue just for trinket rng lol

[void ocean]

like 5th week i have both hc forge and prism and myth antenna 😄

[signal moth]

hatechild

[thin sinew]

I hope your pillow is always too hot or too cold

[void ocean]

theres no such thing as too cold pillow, dont be ridiculous

[signal moth]

i hope you drown

in your pillow

[thin sinew]

from it being a block of ice

[signal moth]

and also poop

frozen poop

[void ocean]

id fall asleep in a second

[thin sinew]

So would half your face xD

just says it all for my tier

[void ocean]

such negativity

[remote shuttle]

My RL gave me (assign) both Forge and Prism HC the same night

[void ocean]

u deserved repost of this

[signal moth]

how do we ban this guy

[remote shuttle]

Asked him if was Christmas in Advance

But Hey, he loves ppl playing sub

[signal moth]

his name dom?

[lone linden]

is there anything special I have to do to sim double on use properly? my sim doesnt like double on use very much

[void ocean]

im not sure all combinations r supported

forge and prism are for sure

and i think lily and prism?

dunno for others

[remote shuttle]

Better pacemaker with prism imho or antenna

[lone linden]

ah okay, cause im yet to loot a forge, but just wondered if Lily + Netherprism would be good? Currently using Netherprism + Sigil of the Cosmic Hunt

[void ocean]

forge and prism will beat pacemaker

[remote shuttle]

Forge + prism Is bis imho

[dusk stone]

pacemaker is quite close to antenna when i simmed it not long ago

[void ocean]

dunno... not to me

[remote shuttle]

Lilly Is 90s using that One Is good with passive

Forge+prism u can decide wo losing big agility buff every flag+blades

[void ocean]

what annoys me with antenna is that orb colelcting... its all fun and games on dummy, but in raid with mechanics...

[raven patrol]

For double on use, i.e Lily and Netherprism, do we send both with CDs or is it an alternating thing?

[dusk stone]

you lose the agility anyway without the passive agi from antenna or pacemaker

[signal moth]

ill take it i guess

[limpid sage]

brother I would trade you my last 2 vaults for this one

[remote shuttle]

U have Always under flag 30k+ agi

Using forge+prism

[dusk stone]

its more upfront and a lot less later

you have the 8k agi + passive from trinket entire dungeon, for raid its a bit different

[remote shuttle]

Ye but we do dmg under cds

[oblique burrow]

guess we send on 6+ bc we can preserve our combo points ?

[remote shuttle]

Agility when not flagging Is whatever

[dusk stone]

you end up doing smaller bursts with prism forge because you don't have the passive stat

passive boosts prism, forge does its own thing

[remote shuttle]

My maths tell different

[oblique burrow]

math tells absolutely the contrary

like you'll have MUCH bigger burst with prism + forge

[remote shuttle]

U Need to count that u use One time forge (30k+) and other One prism at 18

Su u dont use prism at 9

More agility under flag

[hazy breach]

Forge is more like 22k

Not 30k

[remote shuttle]

Ok same Is more than 14k

And never rng

[dusk stone]

well its 9 stack prism + 14k

[little blaze]

Hey ive been trying to learn sub rogue and was wondering if theres any trick to pressing all offgcd buttons in the opener? am I just too old?

[dusk stone]

which is more than forge and also more than 18 prism without passive

[remote shuttle]

Which Is less than prism at 18

[dusk stone]

so your 18 prism with forge isnt boosted with double on use

it is with passive

[remote shuttle]

U still benefit like 1,5% crit also

[limpid sage]

main stat gets devalued by prism due to diminishing returns as well

and forge + prism kinda cover eachothers weaknesses

[fleet wharf]

what mainstat has DR too?

[limpid sage]

yes natural occuring one

[oblique burrow]

i dont think so

[limpid sage]

not like secondaries

[oblique burrow]

its just bc our agi is much higher in end seasons

[fleet wharf]

oh, like a smaller % increase from procs?

[dusk stone]

with antenna, its feasible to get 2 orbs lined up during flag window, so it can become 8k + 10k crit as well

[remote shuttle]

But Hey, @dusk stone u May be right i dunno, thing Is as i do bigger numbers in plus with forge+prism

[limpid sage]

yeah relative to your current main stat it's less

[remote shuttle]

Than forge+pacemaker

[oblique burrow]

30k now is not the same as 30k in S1

[dusk stone]

forge pacemaker aint it for sure

[limpid sage]

it's the reason secondaries catch up to main stat in the end patches typically

[remote shuttle]

Like 6 to 8 % more overall dmg

(in key, not Sims)

[void ocean]

just do the stat weights

[limpid sage]

real

[dusk stone]

the benefit of forge is you have on demand burst where it matters, so for example you can use a 32k agi window in short order on platforms on NK

and then also 18 prism for the amp

it works the same with dimensius

where your 15 seconds matter the most

[cunning notch]

does going over 100% mastery have a hard cap ?

[limpid sage]

ye + you don't have to get depressed everytime you pop cds at the start of a key

I still don't have it

[void ocean]

i wish TFD was like an empowerment u could choose when to spend

[remote shuttle]

Naaa u can push up to like 25k mastery and be ok

[dusk stone]

i think it might be a legitimate idea to run lily + prism, but i am unsure

it would only be with mythic lily though

[cunning notch]

oki tnx

[limpid sage]

another off gcd button pog

[remote shuttle]

Mh could be ok, hc dunno

[dusk stone]

lily has passive stat so you don't lose as much and you can use it on pull, but prism is still weaker

[void ocean]

ye but imagine 18 stack prism with tfd double dance

[cunning notch]

[remote shuttle]

Crit a Lil low

[limpid sage]

it's currently active for our entire double dance window though

[remote shuttle]

U May preffeer to use rotten

Atm

[limpid sage]

(when tfd)

[lilac stag]

someone needs to learn the power of fw and bp in aoe

18% crit smhmyhead

[dusk stone]

34% crit more like it

[remote shuttle]

As u reach like 25% + rotten becomes useless as u crit more by urself

[lilac stag]

ok infexious

cb better in st/sm packs

[dusk stone]

cb is better for single target, tea is better aoe

[lilac stag]

Vigor/Tea better in aoe

[remote shuttle]

Also tea u lose 2% flat crit

Which lot of times Is forgotten

[lilac stag]

difference is negligible

[dusk stone]

the weird thing is when i was simming my 34% crit, i tried with vers pot

was a loss still

i'm not sure i believe that result

[remote shuttle]

Going like from 18% to 16% crit can be bad, very bad if don't play rotten

Think 30% + crit Is where i aim to land

[void ocean]

anyone else simming better with Alch Chaos flask?

[remote shuttle]

(wo extra 6% under symbol)

[lilac stag]

pressing storm in dance for rotten is oof

[dusk stone]

my shuriken storm is 64% crit

sectec 49%

[remote shuttle]

49 sec tec??? How Bro?

Media with cb?

[dusk stone]

i should do a key without and see the crit

no with tea

[spiral sierra]

hmmm 1 point in finality or the rotten?

or does that depend on stats?

[remote shuttle]

49% crit how on st?

[dusk stone]

its in keys

i'm not sure what ST looks like, probably less

[remote shuttle]

Flat value? U run like 20k crit??

[dusk stone]

but the whole dungeon is counted

17,032

[lilac stag]

You can sim it. At most mythic gear level you’re dropping rotten. Storm in dance for FW not worth it when you can naturally get crits / FW out just with Storm.

[remote shuttle]

Ah ok 17k explains it

I'm around 8k

[dusk stone]

well according to the robot its not a loss so what can ya do

[remote shuttle]

U find good with all that crit? Not too much?

[spiral sierra]

ok ty

[remote shuttle]

Ye legit

[dusk stone]

idk i need to rerun it, i tried with vers pot and vers pot was 8k less so

[solemn lance]

for aoe I assume the ideal time to storm is on your first builder after SoD on a new group

[dusk stone]

or even really

[solemn lance]

To spread FW everywhere

[lilac stag]

You don’t storm in dance

[spare quiver]

araz better than antenna?

[remote shuttle]

I Will try grab some heavy crit ring neck in plus and test more crit if u say Is good

Sounds nice

[solemn lance]

So you can hold it till out of dance or the between coupes during sb

[dusk stone]

so how i got mine was buying a boe ring

you can get a similiar ring from plexus sentinel iirc

or pay 800k

[lilac stag]

You can send it before cds

[remote shuttle]

I found mh belt crit/mastery today went from 25 to 26,5 % crit

[dusk stone]

the boe rings are lowkey fire

[solemn lance]

So an extra builder prior to cds is ideal

[remote shuttle]

Naaa Will farm One in plus or check pvp champion, Just to test how It feels that crit

Ty for hint btw

[dusk stone]

what you can do in the rotten is symbols/dance + storm in the 2nd shadow dance, so instead of backstab, you storm there as your builder

you lose 1 DM stack i think

[remote shuttle]

If Will feel nice to play Will arrange time by time more crit

[dusk stone]

you dont need TR on your opener if youre spreading rupture

[solemn lance]

So you are not really using rotten to empower a storm then and just eating them with shadow strike

[fossil forge]

peep th,, stats

[lilac stag]

you don’t storm for rotten is not worth it. For the 3rd time.

[void ocean]

what about in dance

[lilac stag]

[solemn lance]

How about now?

[lilac stag]

Nope. Still striking

[dusk stone]

well the idea is to use a storm instead of backstab for 1st symbols in 2nd dance idk if its better but it was an idea suggested in TC channel

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/riverdale-strike-cheryl-blossom-were-going-on-strike-protest-gif-17440816170909765993

[dusk stone]

it becomes completely unneccessary if you got FW between coups is the problem

[lilac stag]

Next?

[alpine wraith]

you use storm to not waste unseens right now

[dusk stone]

thank you, i missed that apparently

[alpine wraith]

that one check gets fw a lot of the time

rotten or not

[lilac stag]

as well as me saying you don’t do that two time ahead of your happy fingers

[dusk stone]

i didnt check back 9 days when i asked

also, no need to be rude, i said could, not should

[lilac stag]

don’t suggest improper play. Ez

[eager swallow]

wax > algari oil/ stones ?

[lilac stag]

Wax + 1 of either

[remote shuttle]

🤣 some wine for you 🍷everything Will feel Better

[alpine wraith]

we still dont know if wax gets buffed in raid

but for now yea wax+stone is usually good

[void ocean]

dafuq is wax

i use 2xstones

as nature blessed me

[vale pine]

The air stuff is already in the baseline, ofc there is always small refinements to be found

AOE* stupid phone

[void ocean]

storm is air

do u mean we have to storm

[lilac stag]

Possibly is. It beat IP.

[alpine wraith]

nice thx beta testers

have to go genocide some kobols

when i get back from work

[lilac stag]

I know it is. Others apparently rather keep saying storm in dance. Trying to squash that.

[lilac stag]

Yeah I managed to get renown done before raid.

[vale pine]

Storm in dance between coup casts is perfectly fine

[void ocean]

can we sim that wax?

[lilac stag]

That wasn’t the discussion

[vale pine]

Haha fair

[lilac stag]

Consumables inputs are in #tc-research

[oblique burrow]

@vale pine love your guide btw

[void ocean]

well the more u have it the better

[alpine wraith]

that is very bad of you

or you dont count

but yea the more the better

you can even vanish if a pull is about to end and the mob has nothing to get you in combat

you have to vanish before the boss

when you are in combat with it it does not work

[void ocean]

i mean i had more than 2 even last season

[alpine wraith]

yea should have vanished 5 secs ago then

[native zodiac]

Lens enjoyer

[hazy breach]

It buffs weapon enchants (like oathsworn or councils guile) not oil and stuff

Classic case of blizzard tooltip

(theyve changed it to not mention oils now)

[plush roost]

Mfw 7525 versatility proc

[alpine wraith]

ahahaha

that is so funny

[oblique burrow]

Mfw 7525 crit proc

[fallow nimbus]

7525 mastery proc

[lilac stag]

Maybe a dawn thread on wrists is the play now

[hazy breach]

How is it 7525

[lilac stag]

7525 haste proc

[alpine wraith]

more than 4

[lilac stag]

Less than 5

[hazy breach]

It gives 3910, so 7525 would be a 92.5% buff, it should be 50% no?

[alpine wraith]

he has 2 crit enchants maybe

[limpid sage]

pretty much neutral from what I've tested

[frigid canopy]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[hazy breach]

Well then its like 7.8k

[limpid sage]

and a big increase if you do it before dance

[alpine wraith]

WE NEED THE REAL NUMBERS MASON

[fallow nimbus]

It's 5865

[lilac stag]

What are you looking for. I have a mastery and a crit enchant and the renown 6

[hazy breach]

Nothing really

[lilac stag]

kk

was just doing my N.A. beta testing.

[plush roost]

Apparently its bugged to give 125% i was reading

[hazy breach]

Its been fixed

[oblique burrow]

its a bug

[plush roost]

Ah

[oblique burrow]

oh already?

nvm

[fallow nimbus]

Wasn't that fixed?

[plush roost]

My tooltip read 7525 last night

[alpine wraith]

blizz caught that one

[ashen sphinx]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[twilit oracle]

Bro it’s trash, I have netherprism thing hero max and all the dungeon trinkets hero that are good, the other raid trinket

Literally poo poo

[novel marlin]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[plush roost]

? Myth track chest at 710 isnt good enough for you on week 4 my guy?

[wicked urchin]

highest stat budget piece on myth track wow so bad

truly horrible

[limpid sage]

^

[wicked urchin]

meanwhile my head/chest/legs are still hero/champion on week 4 and im 4ilvl behind most people

id be so happy rn

[void ocean]

dunno, i have head, hands and legs on mythic

[wicked urchin]

im at the point of throwing crests into my hero pieces

[limpid sage]

what ilvl are you

[wicked urchin]

411

[limpid sage]

that's quite a bit below I think

[hazy breach]

Ye besides prism and mainhand chest/helm/legs are the best things to get

(assuming you dont already have them in myth that is)

[limpid sage]

brother still wearing VOTI gear

[wicked urchin]

711 LMAO

fuck

im tired

[limpid sage]

xd

I'm same btw

[wicked urchin]

at least i have prism now

[silent ruin]

Does ironclaw whetsone get buffed by renown ?

[wicked urchin]

i haven't gotten a single myth piece from raid

[hazy breach]

No

Its the enchants that get buffed, not oil/whetstones

[mint perch]

why we don't use shuriken storm between all coup de grace and only on the blades if it avoids wasting coup de grace stacks ?

[hazy breach]

Because the damage loss of not getting any combo points from storm is bigger than what you gain from saving the stack

Or well, getting fewer combo points

[void ocean]

in aoe we do it between coups even without blades, right?

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lofty cave]

Trynna learn sub this a 10 flood +2 how this looks all constructive criticism is welcomed plz 🙏

[void ocean]

crap, when was that "or" part added 😄

[karmic harbor]

you can use snipping tool instead of taking pictures of your monitor with your phone

[lofty cave]

How I use that ?

[karmic harbor]

windows key + shift + s

[silent ruin]

Thanks

[queen plinth]

how do we play with prism + pacemaker

use it on 18 stacks always except we get a dmg amp or big pull then with like 9+?

or just macro it to shadwoblades?

[karmic harbor]

hmm

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[void ocean]

i mean i can barely predict 90sec windows in m+, let alone 180s ones

[queen plinth]

thanks

[void ocean]

180

lol

[short radish]

https://www.take-a-screenshot.org/

[queen plinth]

i really dont understand how people pump 40-50 mil burst, i max 20-25 with 18 prism stacks

[mint perch]

ok thx, but if it would be a backstab instead its not much combo points isn't it ? (i mean for coups outside of dance)

[versed crest]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. LMK if it‘s not.

Playing rogue in prog the first time and i feel like I‘m missing something important but i can‘t figure it out.

Could someone have a look at a log from Araz and let me know if there is something obvious off?
Thanks a ton!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6Tc2p4hzHFGXtWRQ?fight=45&type=damage-done&source=198

[short radish]

[lilac stag]

Thanks!

[karmic harbor]

it's hard maybe impossible to know what you might be doing wrong from a details image. you can use something like https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ and upload a log and maybe someone will look through it for you

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter much outside dance

[craggy fractal]

Heyo, I'm struggling to chose my vault item + which item i should craft next, what would you pick and why

[oblique burrow]

sim it

[vale widget]

Myth loomithar dagger

[hazy breach]

You have 5 items that are not good and then you have a weapon thats possible to upgrade to higher than your mainhand

[vale widget]

Or myth pants

Time to sim

[limpid sage]

Could always wait till Loom is downed this week

Since it drops both

[vale widget]

I dont kill it, I just do sentinel and soulbinder with pugs

No raid

[craggy fractal]

Yeaeh but I already have a 720 crafted MH, which would go into my offhand (and the guide says that the OH is the last thing you wanna spend crests on), so would it be worth to use gilded to upgrade this myth track weapon or take the tokens and craft something else using the gilded ? 😄

[lilac stag]

you can sim that also

add the crafted items into top gear and adjust your currency accordingly

OH isnt awful. Its just relative to certain larger items

and at some point you want a 723

[hazy breach]

Well if you max it out its not the offhand anymore

[limpid sage]

That’s because offhand ilvl is just statstick

[hazy breach]

But then again you have literally nothing else in the vault

So

[junior lintel]

Debating taking lily or crystal of anub'ikkaj in my vault. They're both myth track. Anyone got good advice? I find it hard to sim for m+ and dungeon slice doesnt seem very reliable

[vale pine]

thanks ❤️

[lilac stag]

lily

but i think we discussed this already

[limpid sage]

Just like !log is a command, I feel like !vault should be as well

[lilac stag]

it would just get ingnored. its usually just a 24 hour period

[craggy fractal]

Sure, what I meant is that its the same as if I was upgrading an offhand to put it to main hand, but its still an offhand at first, I just don't know how bad it is to upgrade an offhand compared to craft lets say new bracers, i'll try to sim that

[vale widget]

The final answer is always

[keen dome]

Always be simmin'

[lilac stag]

it's not an offhand as soon as you get it to 723 and MH ilvl is quite good

[keen dome]

Esp when turbo boost comes in, too. Having a Myth MH is big

[lilac stag]

at this point me bumping my OH from 720 to 723 is the same value as adding 15 crests to my ring or my gloves.

[void ocean]

im not gonna use a single crest conversion before boost 😄

this season im gonna be clever

[keen dome]

same

[limpid sage]

oh

[lilac stag]

i was a trendsetter last season

[limpid sage]

I forgot that’s a move as well

[junior lintel]

But i mean m+ is very pull dependent. And i find it very hard to sim, given you do higher keys where the tank actually do effective pulls

[fleet wharf]

wait why is saving crests a good idea?

[lilac stag]

(dont mind me never realzing you could convert to gilded

[void ocean]

cause last season they uncapped crests with boost

[keen dome]

Simming is a relative test that isn't 1:1 to reality. We use it to estimate gear upgrades in a hypothetical situation

[fleet wharf]

so you can go over the previous cap easily?

[limpid sage]

Because you can immediately max out your gear when turbo boost comes in

[void ocean]

well yea

[limpid sage]

Instead of having to spam a million dungeons

[void ocean]

now if u do conversions and content as well u will lose some due to cap

[fleet wharf]

you guys arent looking forward to running 30 dungones in 4 days?

[keen dome]

nah 'cos I'm saving crests

so I don't have to

[void ocean]

i mean probably a lot of us still lose crests even without conversions but u cant do much about it

[lilac stag]

i wonder how many aren't capped on the lower crests right now

[fleet wharf]

even if you save max runed crests, you'll still need to run quite a few dungeons from waht I recall

[keen dome]

Ye but you'll be doing vault anyway

[void ocean]

3 11s delves is 31 gilded

[limpid sage]

Isn’t it 7 per 11 delve

[craggy fractal]

Also, when the disc belt will be nerfed do we know at which ilvl we would swap it for another belt ? and which one would be BiS ? This one ?

[void ocean]

it is and then u do hidden trove which is 10

[limpid sage]

Oh

I thought that one was 15

[void ocean]

10 iirc

[hazy breach]

Belt nerf is still long ways away

[stoic granite]

Hi guys, I got a question regarding trinkets for sub. I currently have mythic antenna, hc araz's and hc netherprism. I have seen in logs that vast majority of top parses use araz's + netherprism but according to my sim i should be using nether + antenna. What are your thoughts?

[vale pine]

prism + atenna (everywhere else)
prism + forge on last 2 bosses

[stoic granite]

love u fuu

thanks 🙂

[lilac stag]

@void ocean @limpid sage 7 per 11 delve. +10 for map use.

[void ocean]

yupp

gotta do it tonight for the first 2 upgrades of my MYTHIC ANTENNA

[lilac stag]

sorry was confused if you all weren’t sure

[void ocean]

i feel like next season i will be raiding in green gear

[limpid sage]

I wasn’t sure either

[void ocean]

i was

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-warcraft-wow-gif-11008475980691198481

[limpid sage]

Liar

[lilac stag]

Next season

[swift tinsel]

bring back combat peak gameplay

[void ocean]

i still feel like im gonna hate antenna

[lilac stag]

Get dem bawls

[void ocean]

like ye sure its cute i can kite those orbs while waiting for cds but theres like no way its doable in mythic raid

[keen dome]

I am playing so badly today and I don't know why (It's probably almost a week straight of Silksong). Did we get turbo nerfed while I wasn't looking.

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'd personally rather settle for pacemaker

[void ocean]

on dummy*

tho since Loom is my current myth prog i will probably go as assa there which gives more time for collecting

especially if i get relieved from swapping to tangles

was funny I used shadowstep to get to tangles untill i got tethered back 😄

[keen dome]

haha

[void ocean]

its still cool once u get pulled for thether u just shadowstep outer tangle and break it

get to choose the spot first 😄

[lilac stag]

Watches random ass step puddles fuck over melee in p2

[swift tinsel]

[keen dome]

third week in a row of Plexus not dropping anything i can roll on

[swift tinsel]

our tanks are painfully lethargic in p2 so space becomes awful reallllll quick

[keen dome]

Loot is such a mystery

[left ledge]

Why would you be kiting antenna orbs

[swift tinsel]

yeah our drops have been absolutely terrible

it's kinda weird

[swift tinsel]

to get the buff for cds

kinda like witherbark branch

[left ledge]

Doesn’t that trinket just play itself

[swift tinsel]

it does, but you can play around it

[lilac stag]

Sir do you realize which spec channel you’re in?

[ornate lake]

Guildies malding rn

[keen dome]

Huge

[left ledge]

Yeah the one in which people should be using forge and prism

[void ocean]

cause they r lava

[lilac stag]

Anti-2xOnUse propaganda has been high this week

[acoustic matrix]

Guys on Priory I lose so much dps on multi paladins pulls because I have to spam feint and that starves me of energy. Do you guys have that too ?

I guess I shouldn't play cold blood on that key

[swift tinsel]

huh

[lilac stag]

Just feint the aoe cast

[swift tinsel]

yeah you don't need to spam it

you're a sub rogue

[acoustic matrix]

Yes but they spam cast it

There are many paladins in the pulls

[lilac stag]

They do not

Most groups pull 3, sometimes pull those into 2 more when they are low

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah they do man, I've played those pulls multiple times

[bleak grotto]

if u kill they fast, they cast less

[acoustic matrix]

They are desynced

so you basically have to cast feint on cd

[lilac stag]

I’ve run 2 keys all season. DB and Priory. You ain’t spamming fient.

[gilded jungle]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[left ledge]

Just press another defensive if you’re low on energy

Idk

[acoustic matrix]

Like what ?

[left ledge]

You have evasion and cloak

[lilac stag]

crimson vile time to shine

[void ocean]

Do more dmg

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah both 2 min cds

[left ledge]

Okay?

[warm marlin]

If you pull 2, you feint the last second of the first toll and it will cover the second toll

No need to spam it

[left ledge]

Where else are you using them

[acoustic matrix]

I play cheat death but I think it's not cutting it anymore

[lilac stag]

Spoiler ||they’re not||

[left ledge]

Why are you playing cheat death

[void ocean]

To whom the paladins toll

[acoustic matrix]

Cause I like the security it brings

[lilac stag]

To cheat death duh

[left ledge]

Does feint even work on toll work cheat?

[lilac stag]

I like me some death cheating in pugs

[acoustic matrix]

yeah

[left ledge]

With cheat*

[warm marlin]

It’s aoe

[acoustic matrix]

it's an aoe

[void ocean]

Bruh in my mind feint works on everything

[warm marlin]

I’m a pure elusive truther in keys though

[left ledge]

In my mind feint works on nothing

[swift tinsel]

feint works on toll according to the sheet

[lilac stag]

What it doesn’t is the healers fault.

[acoustic matrix]

Let me pull the log cause I was logging it

[left ledge]

I play elusive almost everywhere

[acoustic matrix]

You'll see how much they cast

[lilac stag]

Bruh thinks no one in here has run priory

[warm marlin]

Rogue with feint has the best defensive possible for paladins

[void ocean]

I dont cheat death, we leave this world as equals

[warm marlin]

If you’re dying the rest of the group should be long on the floor

[acoustic matrix]

Ye that's not the problem tho

I'm not dying

But the feints starve me of energy

So I lose a ton of dps

[void ocean]

Do it in the dance

[swift tinsel]

30 energy over what, 12 seconds?

[warm marlin]

Well you still have energy in cds

outside it’s whatever

[acoustic matrix]

Even in cds i was struggling

[swift tinsel]

sounds like there's something else going on

[acoustic matrix]

Let me pull the logs

Well I was playing cold blood

[swift tinsel]

okay and

[acoustic matrix]

Cause I like the prio it gives me

[lilac stag]

The P word

[swift tinsel]

vigor isn't going to help because it sounds like a cast timing issue

[lilac stag]

Maybe it’s a more haste angle

[swift tinsel]

Oh good call, Warning Sign era rise up

[acoustic matrix]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K7m2nwpgZ86HCR43?fight=last&pull=6&type=casts&hostility=1&source=34&view=timeline

Look how much toll they cast

[craggy fractal]

What % stats shoud you aim for ? rn i got this and i'm wondering if i should craft bracers in crit/mast or keep going for more mast/vers

[void ocean]

Oh no

[acoustic matrix]

112% Mastery ? xD

[karmic harbor]

are you meant to be running cheat death in 17s

[void ocean]

Dear god

[left ledge]

What’s the prio from cold blood?

[karmic harbor]

surely elusiveness is better value

[outer radish]

so if i have Araz's Ritual Forge (2min cd) and Unyielding Netherprism.. how do i sync the trinkets with my cds?

[karmic harbor]

i only play cd with garbo healers in like 12s

[lilac stag]

Sechtech giggles

[void ocean]

U first use forge then prism then forge then prism then forge...

U get the idea

[left ledge]

Sectec prio?

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah maybe I should move away from it. It does save me sometimes though

[lilac stag]

What exactly are you going for and have you tried running a sim? Ain’t no way it wants you at that low of crit

[hazy breach]

Sectech does way more damage to the main target than the others

[left ledge]

Yeah just doesn’t really seem like prio to me in terms of cb

[void ocean]

He crits once in blue moon but, boy, when he does...

[lilac stag]

Dino having mastery flashbacks

[left ledge]

Sub rogue not really a prio do-er

[hazy breach]

Sub does fine prio

[old venture]

if you say his name 3 times he posts the screenshot from bfa

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah when I blast CDs on a target I see it go down way faster

Prio is fine

Not arcane mage fine but fine

[left ledge]

Yes but thats just because of how the spec plays itself

Not because of cb

[hazy breach]

I mean we do our ST rotation mostly

[left ledge]

You essentially do ST

[hazy breach]

That is fine prio

[lilac stag]

We press BP thank you very much

[hazy breach]

Yeah but we also get some more prio from more cdr

[craggy fractal]

idk what i'm going for, I just got most of my item drops with vers/mast 🤷 I'd like to get the alpha ring to replace my omega one and fix that but well, its not dropping

[acoustic matrix]

idk I just do better with CB be it on bosses or focus target but maybe i'm imagining it

[hazy breach]

So overall the prio is very similar to pure ST

[graceful osprey]

I am simming antenna and prism is better dps, but what fights might be better for forge and prism? Loom? Forgeweaver? Probably nexus king?

[left ledge]

I mean when I hear “prio” I’m assuming you’re doing something to enhance your damage to the priority target

[hazy breach]

Thats funnel

[outer radish]

can i use a macro (shadow blades + the two trinkets) like first put /use azar then after that /use netherprism? or i have to seperate them

[left ledge]

Yeah

Does that not go hand in hand

[lilac stag]

Separate is better.

[left ledge]

Idk

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah funnel is when other targets help you do more damage to your main prio. Not the same as prio

Prio is opposed to I do same amount of damage to everyone

i.e pad spec

[lilac stag]

If you ever get stuck holding prism and forge comes back up with 18 stack on prism. rip

[acoustic matrix]

like dev evoker or marks hunt

[left ledge]

I see

So really prio is a useless term

[karmic harbor]

make 2 keybinds

[lilac stag]

Cb does slightly more ST / cleave. Vigor does slightly more aoe. It’s a wash in the end imo.

vigor just plays smoother so people tend to enjoy that

[hazy breach]

Not really no

Using evis instead of BP is more prio

[acoustic matrix]

Prio is king in M+ tbh ^^

[hazy breach]

But its not more funnel

[swift tinsel]

If you can't funnel into a big mob prio is very valuable

[left ledge]

It’s not more funnel because our abilities that fund what would be the funnel rotation suck ass

[lilac stag]

How was UH Prio vs AOE in the past?

[acoustic matrix]

All those pulls where everything big mob is surviving way longer than the rest of the pack is lack of prio and costs a ton of time

[hazy breach]

#assassination Now bud

[old venture]

[acoustic matrix]

UH ?

[left ledge]

Sure and then you just pull it into other packs

[lilac stag]

UH DK. Legit brought for aoe and they’ve been KING

[graceful osprey]

What fights would be better for double on use trinkets? Like I’m thinking loom, forge trinket on pull, and save prism for when boss drops down

[cunning notch]

i see some gamers running this build ? can anyone explain why the 1 point in finality ?

[swift tinsel]

last two bosses especially

[void ocean]

Last 2 bosses

[acoustic matrix]

You don't need everyone to do Prio. As long as your big mob is dead at the same time as the others it's fine. Also UH had so much damage that his AOE damage was = prio damage of other classes lol. Class was just busted

[left ledge]

Finality good in aoe

Very good

Buffs bp a lot

[eager locust]

In M+, if im trying to do as much overall as possible, do I BP over eviscerate with nimble flurry up?

[swift tinsel]

every shadow portion of BP is buffed by finality, not just every other (bug)

so its an aoe bump

[hazy breach]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

General Gist of the Aoe rotation

• At ALL target counts cast Coup de Grace when it is ready.
• At ALL target counts cast Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm. (unless coup is ready, !coup)
• Cast Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).

[left ledge]

You bp at 4+ targets

[cunning notch]

gotcha

tnx gamers

[eager locust]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[cunning notch]

at this point ( bug ) should be a part of our talent tree tbh

gain " x random" amount of damage and you lose x amount of dmg

[tranquil berry]

how much should you try to spread rupture on big aoe pulls(for example first bl pull in gambit)?

[swift tinsel]

spread until tank plants

[acoustic matrix]

There are many instances where you cannot do that. Think Shards of Halkias in HoA for exemple, you are not chaining that into other packs and the map doesn't really allow it

[cunning notch]

personally i only spread ruptures in downtime

[swift tinsel]

don't delay cds in order to spread rupture

[lilac stag]

guess that knocks “prio” off the throne.

You can do fantastic AOE by sacrificing a little prio (pressing evic). It comes down to how you choose to play the spec and how much pressing evis over BP make you feel better about your dps.

[tranquil berry]

so spread rupture until planted and then pop cds?

[swift tinsel]

ye

[tranquil berry]

thanks!

[swift tinsel]

long as you have tricks up and your tank is not body-pulling every single mob you should be fine

plus the storms help spread FW as they gather

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah I didn't mean that you're meant to do always do prio. It's comp dependent. If you're running with paladin and marks hunt for exemple, going for BP is gonna cost you time

[lilac stag]

End of the day you should feel good about your choices for helping your team

[acoustic matrix]

And even pressing BP you're doing prio as sub rogue tbf

[lilac stag]

Mmhm

And you just chain it into another pack. And shit does faster

depends what you’re group wants to do

He hit strike and coup so much in cds that’s our prio

[acoustic matrix]

Yes

I don't even press evis above 4 target myself

but when you see the elites costing you time you can think about it

[lilac stag]

I’m not convinced pressing evic in a pack of 10 is speeding you up in any way shape or form which many people do

[sonic ermine]

bois to sim double one use Araz + Netherprism properly. do you gotta do some funky wonky costum setting?

[hazy breach]

Sims correctly

[warm marlin]

To be specific, it’s all about relative % damage to the priority mob compared to your pure st rotation/build. if you’re doing like 90-100% of the damage you would if you were full st, you’re doing good prio. If you’re doing 50% (I.e storm BP days) you’re a pad spec. If you’re a good bit above 100% (like 110+, somewhat subjective) you’re a funnel spec

[swift tinsel]

ye I feel like its more value to kill the pisser mobs with bp then swap to evisc if the bigger mobs are taking too long

[sonic ermine]

oh so it just natty sims prism every other blade and araz in between?

[left ledge]

Can you give one example other than shards

[hazy breach]

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Use the trinket at the same time as Shadow Blades. What stacks you should use it on depends on your trinket combination:

• If its your only on-use trinket: Using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.
• If youre using Prism+Forge: Rotate between them each Shadow Blades regardless of stacks (so forge on pull, prism on 1:30, forge on 3:00)
• If youre using Prism+Lily: Use Lily with Blades until you have 16+ stacks of Prism, then use prism and hold Lily for next Blades.

[lilac stag]

The season is also still relatively young

[karmic harbor]

i evis the shield guys in ecodome

because theyre annoying

[acoustic matrix]

There are many. In streets second pull is another exemple. your tank can't chain pull until the overseer is dead

[left ledge]

Huh

[acoustic matrix]

Or you have a gigachad group that does overseer + mini boss

[vagrant fulcrum]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up on Single Target. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[left ledge]

The second pull?

[acoustic matrix]

yeah the one you often bl on

[left ledge]

The lust pull?

[acoustic matrix]

yeah

the overseer does the beams

[left ledge]

How can’t you chain that also the mobs just explode

[acoustic matrix]

I mean you can

But it's ultra risky

[left ledge]

The beams that you can jump over ye

[acoustic matrix]

• They do a nasty tank buster

all the pugs i've seen don't chain it until he's dead at least

but i know at the highest level they pull it with miniboss

[left ledge]

I think shards are the only actual hard cuck from chain pulls

[queen kraken]

my sim is betraying me, i just need to get some setgloves to swap to loomi shoulders (dont wanna waste a catalyst on hc)

[left ledge]

Because they’re just in a weird map spot

[acoustic matrix]

Often times you also wanna blast dangerous casters fast too

Every high level M+ will tell you that prio damage is king

That's why people run arcane mage nowadays

Even though their overall doesn't compete with the other top tier classes

[astral axle]

ugh... I had the choice between mythic tier pants and an outlaw weapon since I already have a myth dagger. I thought "sure, I remember liking outlaw" and went with the weapon. Did a key. And just about gave myself the arthuritis 👴

[cunning notch]

how do we use Shuriken tornado in the opener ? before blades i assume ?

[frigid prawn]

killed mythic for my first time and got lucky hehe

[swift tinsel]

not taking myth tier pants seems like an odd move

in favor of off-spec weapon

[hazy breach]

My recommendation is to use it instead of storm in #2 here #subtlety message

[swift tinsel]

that you can craft

[astral axle]

it was dumb

let's just call it what it is

[cunning notch]

oight will try thanks g

[neon frigate]

Does anyone have a good build for cold blood in m+? I just dont like the tea build with the auto tea

[astral axle]

At least the tier pants drop from loom??

[lilac stag]

We’re swimming in catalysts. Sort of.

What are you saving them for?

[swift tinsel]

should have what, 4 or 5 charges now including ksm/pvp/aotc?

[lilac stag]

Remove tea path, take CB path

[celest ice]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[lilac stag]

I was chucking them on normal items. Hahah

[warm marlin]

You see shoulders, I see the banger db ring on myth track

[acoustic matrix]

Doesn't the sim use it outside of flag window ? I personally use it on first symbols after flag

[hazy breach]

It currently does yes

[lilac stag]

Ring is the take imo

that or priory ring are instant grabs

[hazy breach]

But ive been looking into some aoe stuff, and thats one of the things i found