subtlety

[swift tinsel]

the feint part is barely ever used in keys

if ever

its direct damage, not aoe

[dusk stone]

Isnt it just flat dr period

[swift tinsel]

no

its non-aoe damage

which is the vast majority of damage you take in keys

[coral bear]

What do you guys think of the weak aura people made, I made one for myself cause I didnt know some people made theirs

should i switch to them, they feel complete

[dusk stone]

It says non area of effect damage

[swift tinsel]

cheat will save you way more than elusiveness will

[hazy breach]

#wow-general message
You can check the spreadsheet pinned in #wow-general here to see if feint works on things or not in dungeons.

[hazy breach]

Ye so it doesnt affect area of effect damage

[swift tinsel]

the non-aoe damage you're taking is likely to kill you even with the 20% dr

outside of edge cases

[hazy breach]

So its either 40% because its considered aoe OR its 20% because its not

Its not 40% AND 20%

[willow pawn]

does sec tech cleave around the boss or you?

[dusk stone]

Yeah i know

[hazy breach]

Around the boss

[swift tinsel]

the target you hit

[willow pawn]

kk

[hazy breach]

Which is cursed as hell sometimes

Like on dimensius

[swift tinsel]

yea esp if the boss displaces

[willow pawn]

yah doing araz with 1 evoker

[swift tinsel]

or hitbox shenanigans

[willow pawn]

ads are never grouped

[turbid edge]

shadowcraft

[swift tinsel]

in relevant keys*

[hazy breach]

Start dimensius > target add to not be teleported into the middle > get placed behind him so you have to turn around to hit boss > cast flag on the boss > swap back to adds for sectech

[swift tinsel]

made that mistake

same with p3

lmao

[worldly remnant]

Not that one, the one where first coup can refund cps after a delay

[swift tinsel]

also happens with the adds in the lightning chambers

[hazy breach]

It is shadowcraft

[worldly remnant]

Even I don't have enough stacks?

[hazy breach]

Coup does damage multiple times, and its bugged so it can proc on any of the hits

So if you have 5 stacks when you press the button

But get 7 when the third hit happens (1s later) then you will get the refund

[swift tinsel]

classic case of multi-hit ability being problematic

[worldly remnant]

I see

What is the play around it?

[turbid edge]

u wait a sec i guess

[hazy breach]

If you have 5 when you cast coup just sit and wait really

Not much else to do

Pray blizzard fixes it ig?

[dusk stone]

Watch coup cd i guess

[worldly remnant]

[turbid edge]

in ST, when do i storm between coups?

• during dance
• during dance and shadowblades
• outside of dance

[coral bear]

Fun UI I did for SUB

[worldly remnant]

Alright, thanks

[turbid edge]

it's easy in aoe cuz i can storm and get max cp most times

[coral bear]

Very smoll

[hazy breach]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[hazy breach]

During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets

[turbid edge]

ohhhhhhh. so in ST without shadowblades, always BS or strike. got it

[hazy breach]

Its shadowed finishers

[swift tinsel]

as per usual

just take the talent out back

[hazy breach]

If you dont have fw up (or shadowed finishers specced) you wont get the refunds in the middle of the cast

[tepid trellis]

huh

[burnt panther]

!auras

[swift tinsel]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[hazy breach]

The coup refunding per hit thing

Doesnt happen if you dont have shadowed finishers

[coral bear]

Is there a WA that is more recommanded?

[west tide]

no prism for another week

but i got a mythic sigil for the law

[coral bear]

Like a people favorite

[tepid trellis]

im like 99.9% sure the clip i used for evidence i did not have FW up

[west tide]

ok guys im on nexus now no prism but i have a heroic forge, heroic lily, mythic antenna all same ilevel 710 for now wwyd...

[swift tinsel]

isn't sf part of the finality issue too

with coup

[dense mountain]

YOOO is there a feint spreadsheet for raids mechanics?

[dusk stone]

!def

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Defensive Spreadsheet: > Click to open <

[lilac stag]

Take the prism you had in your vault.

[dense mountain]

tyvm

[west tide]

i fucked up i took an antenna man

[lucid jackal]

Use whatever sims highest

[west tide]

but its a mythic one..

[swift tinsel]

[west tide]

https://tenor.com/view/lapiscel-crashout-crash-out-cry-tiktok-gif-10007966496574564059

[lilac stag]

Have fun catching bawls

[dusk stone]

antenna is barely better than PM

[hazy breach]

Ok mb i was lying, i thought i remembered it only happening with FW up but im wrong

[tepid trellis]

yeh has nothing to do with shadowed

[west tide]

ok i guess im usin antenna and lily

mashallah

[hazy breach]

The finality thing does though

[lilac stag]

This is probably it

[west tide]

doesnt forge just give me more burst for the big bang

on plats

[hazy breach]

Thats whats consuming it per hit

[west tide]

36k agi vs 10k mastery

[tepid trellis]

this bug just needs to get the fuck out

[lucid jackal]

Ive gotten so used to it at this point

[brisk onyx]

😭

[tepid trellis]

im coping its getting fixed in the 0.5 patch

geting a refund 0.9sec after i pressed the finisher is

DIABOLICAL behaviour

[tame terrace]

yea thats annoying

[frail nexus]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ember mural]

I thought it was lag 😅

[brisk onyx]

is never do 2 tech in the first dance a dps loss?

[tepid trellis]

doesent really matter all that much

id only do it myself if sectech is up a good bit left of the first dance

[hazy breach]

Good thing you have 0.3s to react since coups GCD is 1.2 seconds for some reason

[tepid trellis]

i hate the 1 sec left of dance sectech

then me spamming the fuck out of my dance keybind

so i just dont

[tepid trellis]

0,27 according to the log

it came in at 0.93 after gcd

after cast*

[honest saddle]

Just tuned in to chat so dont know the context but assume this is highlighting a very slow delayed combo refund which could lead to poor gcd choice as you use a builder needlessly?

[tepid trellis]

yes it just coup being a dickhead

[honest saddle]

Yeah

[tepid trellis]

cuz its coded at 3x eviscerates

as*

so all 3 hits can proc the refund

[honest saddle]

I think similar shit happens on outlaw with bte refunds sometimes

[tepid trellis]

i might crashout if its not fixed in the 0,5 patch

[honest saddle]

Buddy... Do I have some news for you

It will NEVER be fixed

[tepid trellis]

oh it will

question is when

[honest saddle]

I love the optimism

[hazy breach]

Surely that fix also fixes the finality thing

Right?

[tepid trellis]

might just fully brick it xD

[hazy breach]

I mean finality not interacting at all with coup

Is better than what it currently does

[lavish rose]

!talents

o in pins got it

[brisk onyx]

Yes sir

[warm marlin]

i had my sht proc to 7 3ms before the final coup hit (not a frame in my vod did i have 7 sht) and then my shadowstrike gcd went off 180ms after the refund

very cool

[umbral fulcrum]

im not enjoying soul hunters on assa

think im just gonna

sub

[kind lagoon]

spoiler alert ur not gonna enjoy it on sub either because the fight is TURBO ASS

[umbral fulcrum]

yea but im already doing more damage

[tepid trellis]

yeh the third coup hit lands somewhere between 0.9 and 0.95

[umbral fulcrum]

and we've seen enrage

[kind lagoon]

yeah thats true u do get to see urself on the meters

[umbral fulcrum]

so we need more dam

[kind lagoon]

yeah the good news about sub is u just get to sen d the brust during the safe periods when they grouped up then wander around inbetween

[umbral fulcrum]

yea thats the idea it seems

[tepid trellis]

or just get killed by your shaman healer on the first hunts

then lay dead

the entire fight

until its dead

[umbral fulcrum]

my boy staak would never do that to me

[lilac stag]

That was me on loom this week

[tepid trellis]

that was me on soulhunter reclear

[umbral fulcrum]

man i wish we had the damage for that

[lilac stag]

Chain and getting range dropping circles on me

[umbral fulcrum]

we've had awful drop and vault luck generally

[tepid trellis]

ew

cant believe this dude just posted outlaw shit in my sub channel

[wicked urchin]

someone agreed to sell me lfr prism but they left before it could be sent to inventory and cant trade it now

everything is cursed

[lilac stag]

Have you tried just getting prism?

[tepid trellis]

i have a warbound one laying around

[wicked urchin]

[plush roost]

11 frac kills and 3 vaults still mia

🙁

[tepid trellis]

im getting it in my vault next reset

on mythic

ofc

[wicked urchin]

1 drop so far on heroic and it went to hunter

which is fine ofc

but like

cmon

where are they

[tepid trellis]

my rogue has 3

[wicked urchin]

i was in pvp trinket prison until dinars came out last season too

[rancid crow]

why is my rupture displaying in my logs so late? It shows up within a gcd of sectech here

[hazy breach]

You guys decided upon reclearing or not yet

[hazy breach]

Looks like youre looking at damage and not casts

[rancid crow]

derp, ty

[hazy breach]

And rupture doesnt tick immediately once you apply it, as its a damage over time effect

[tepid trellis]

doubt we will tbh

[hazy breach]

Ye same

So its this next vault or nothing

Im still rocking a normal one

[tepid trellis]

mine is hc

but id like a 723 one

[hazy breach]

Ye its only like 2.5% simdps over my current one

Would be nice

It is what it is though

Fractilus too busy dropping 2 leather boots everytime we kill him

[tepid trellis]

same lmfao

[hazy breach]

Why did they even bother adding other boots to the raid smh my head

[lilac stag]

allow the raid boots to be cata’d into special boots

make it cost 2x charges idk

boots are dumb

[lucid jackal]

This tier more than most theres like, so much locked in gwear

its kinda crazy

4 tier pieces, 2 crafted items, the cloak, the boots, 2 trinkets

[lucid jackal]

Probably expected the optional boss to be more optional

[tepid trellis]

well they made the boss required

for hof

so on them

[vale widget]

I guess more crit its not that bad?

[lilac stag]

Optional when it increases the cloak 1.4 / 1.5

[vale widget]

Idk, but it seems weird that sims higher when it will low vers and mast a lot that ring

[lilac stag]

What is weird

We only care about avoiding haste

Toss on ilvl. Party on.

[tepid trellis]

crit is a good stat for sub

esp on AoE

[lilac stag]

People stuck in s1 brain rot

crit = fw = bp go brrrrrrr

[vale widget]

Haste rn is only on chest and that gem, so all good

[lilac stag]

Why do you have haste on a gem?

[vale widget]

Blasfemite effect

[lilac stag]

[vale widget]

Unless is not needed, idk
Too late to sim and I just put things there

[lilac stag]

you can probably replace that gem too. lol

[umbral fulcrum]

is there some bug where you can't press shadow dance if you have an extended shadow dance up

[lucid jackal]

You cant dance while dance is active period

[umbral fulcrum]

ah

im bad

[gleaming locust]

looking at some log stuff for Soulbinder. Have the same casts for each ability within a 1-2 sec same kill time as someone but their nimble flurry is doing 2x more damage than mine. Same opener and dance sequences and within 1-2 sec of each other. Is this a positioning thing or adds dying faster?

[rare thistle]

If I macro symbols of death is there any way to make them not be spammed and only used once when spamming the macro?

[gleaming locust]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[gleaming locust]

there is a macro in the wowhead guide for it

[rare thistle]

ty

[gleaming locust]

it's at the very bottom of the macro's part so just scroll if you dont see it

[earnest canyon]

if i am doing my rotation well, and i save symbols and dance around 20 second before flag comes back, are there certian times i send naked secret techs? (eg 20~25 seconds before flag/shadow blade comes back up)

[rare thistle]

Just what I was looking for ty

[manic steppe]

anyone have the sim for food buff and weapon oils?

the string

[bright elk]

during the Amp on forgeweaver are you guys getting 2 sectecs in? we're progging it now and i was only able to get 1 at the start

the 2nd is available right when it ends

[abstract dock]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[lucid jackal]

dimensius is such a good fight

It might be an all timer honestly

Such a good fight to prog

[warped ferry]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[maiden oar]

@hazy breach hi quick question if you dont mind - how tight is the cdr on sectech if you do the dance before flag on the dmg amp in nexus king?

i was just dancing during the 2nd lasers 2 target thing and then pooling for amp but i saw that you and a few other people did that instead and im curious about it

[lusty root]

Killed Mythic Forgeweaver today, absolutely popped off on it

[cedar willow]

Double on use?

[vagrant thorn]

Húlkstab being sad about not having any good specs for this boss

[brisk raptor]

You kill it with only one set of collectors?

[sullen hare]

ladies and gentlemen it is my pleasure to announce that I purple parsed on my guild's first loomithar kill

[strange chasm]

@lucid jackal cheat vs elu on nexus?

[lucid jackal]

I played cheat for P3

[icy mulch]

could start elus till your healers figure out p1

[lucid jackal]

Just dont be afraid to healthpot when u get hit by banishment

I'd rather have a free line fuckup in P3 tbqh

But elus isn't bad

[dim trail]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[upbeat sorrel]

is signet + unyielding bad? is lily better if we are gonna go double on use

[echo moat]

Ty

[brazen steppe]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[warm depot]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[slow solar]

so higer rank player use cold blood vs tea what are the differences? cold blood is more prio target damage?

[bleak night]

cb more st tea more aoe

[slow solar]

thanks!

[strange geode]

Honestly I have energy problems with CB

[somber tendon]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[rocky ocean]

black powder, they should buff it

[supple kettle]

How is Sub single target in M+ this season? I’ve been doing Sin but with Sub raid numbers I think it might be a good time to swap back to sub. I mostly run with a ret pally and frost mage so bosses feel a little painful.

[weary saffron]

big numbie

[supple kettle]

Yeah, I swapped to it for mana forge and saw some good numbers too (sure I was playing it wrong). I’m just nervous about griefing a key if I swap. Haven’t really played it seriously since they killed Shadowdust.

[weary saffron]

short cooldowns with very powerful burst windows. you dont change many talents from raid so its similar st you'd expect there pretty much

[short radish]

big number also activate endorphins in brain

[weary saffron]

save up a netherprism for boss or w/e and you are a nuke

[short radish]

no send netherprism on adds so you have bigger overalls

[weary saffron]

real and true

[acoustic matrix]

I currently have netherprism macro'ed to SB but i'm not sure it's the play

maybe I should stack it to 18 and send

[supple kettle]

We don’t play tornado anymore though right? Looked at a couple different builds and it seems like there are some flex points. When does sub vanish now with Shadowdust gone?

[acoustic matrix]

Casual who has the highest damage numbers logged in M+ played tornado

Except on Streets

I tried using it and it does indeed slap in AOE

[supple kettle]

Okay, so it’s still sort of a thing?

[weary saffron]

its a thing

[acoustic matrix]

But if your tank is pulling small it's not worth it

[weary saffron]

not sure who else streams a lot but casual and kush have been spamming it during eu hours

[short radish]

you play whatever feels comfiest

[weary saffron]

would recommend checking out

[short radish]

tornado is really wack

and nobody recommends

[supple kettle]

My tank pulls big, that’s why I was staying on Sin. My 5 target training dummy is way higher on sin but boss damage feels like in a tank.

[short radish]

like whoa thats crazy you get to cast 5 free ruptures every minute

[acoustic matrix]

Target dummy is unreliable on sin because of zoldyck and sanguine

You have boosted damge against low targets and target dummy are always low

[supple kettle]

Oh you’re right, I hadn’t thought about that.

[acoustic matrix]

Big difference between Sin and Sub is consistency and ST

sin has good damage every pack

sub is more a every other pack spec

[supple kettle]

So where do you vanish now with Shadowdust dead?

[short radish]

as utility

you can use it to drop combat early

so you can get tfd earlier

or you can use it to get out of roots

[supple kettle]

What? I get to use it as an actual ability? Weird haha.

[short radish]

or you can use it to get 7 free cp

yup

[acoustic matrix]

getting tfd is probably the best use dps wise

[supple kettle]

I’m sold, time to regem my gear.

[acoustic matrix]

I mean you can stay mast crit tbh

[hoary bloom]

anyone an idea on what to do here?

[bleak night]

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah I had this earlier too

[hoary bloom]

what did you do to fix

[acoustic matrix]

I'm here talking to you

[short radish]

come and chat

we can talk about how shit shuriken tornado is

[round latch]

like what can u do there

[short radish]

his best

[hoary bloom]

idk thought it was a character specific issue

[round latch]

its literally what it says friend

[hoary bloom]

maybe stuck character service or something

[brisk onyx]

Anyone knows is feint working on command:behead in nexus king?

[round latch]

the world server is down

u cant connect to wow coz no wow is online atm

[short radish]

not for NA

[round latch]

coz the server is down

[short radish]

common EU L

[round latch]

cmon yo

[short radish]

[round latch]

im clearning my place,cant do anything

dogo shedding alot

[hoary bloom]

yeah time to clean entire house

[real hare]

Can some1 check my log to see what I'm doing wrong? Feels like I have most stuff under control but I'm not pumping the numbers I want to https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fpYCNgk6RF72qJ1B?fight=32&type=damage-done&source=4

Put in an example boss with high uptime

[haughty mural]

Ok beta testers

[fringe palm]

• dont cb first sectec during cds
• you missed some superchargers for sectec
• you used late dance and had to delay second cds
• your dmg will never look good with a 4.40 killtime
• you can macro prism to sb

[acoustic matrix]

Here's a few thing:

• You're cold blooding your first SecTech in cooldowns, do it on the second so you empower a fully flag stacked sectech
• You're not using your second coup at 0:50. I assume you were oom and couldn't get to 6CP in time but you should still send it anyway
• You want to generate with Shuriken Storm in SB between coups (1:49)
• Your SecTec at 1:56 is not supercharged, this is big dps loss. You need to use sectech as your first or second spender after symbols. You do it again at 3:40 and 3:50
• You're sending premeditation with full combo points at 0:16, 1:56 and 3:41. You want to dance -> spender and only then backstab if you're already at 6+CP
• Also what Impy said but it's weird because dancing at 2:19 should not prevent you from using CDs at 3min so I don't know what went on here
• You also don't want to use any spender and spam backstab around 10 sec before flag to stack shadow techniques stored cp

[short radish]

i'm OCE so NA gets to beta test for us first

[jagged rover]

Coup de grace is +5 CP, so outside of cds you can use it at 1 cp and your still meeting the priority of using a finisher at 6+ CP

[acoustic matrix]

Oh it's +5CP ?

I thought it was just 5 CP if you're under 5 CP

[fleet wharf]

Isn't it still better to send it at more cp because you still expend energy to build up the CP, and while it's technically 6 CP you aren't making great use of your energy by sending it at the hypothetical 1 cp

[acoustic matrix]

Yes it is but sometimes you can't build 6CP fast enough

[jagged rover]

its a linear increase, without any modifiers it doesn't matter

[fleet wharf]

I mean you should just pool before sending coup then

either energy or sht so you can still be more efficient?

[acoustic matrix]

in single target you just cant' generate 6 CP in 4 seconds sometimes

[willow bobcat]

What they are saying is that if you run into a case where you cant build cp before the second Coup, send it still.

[jagged rover]

if your in dance your going to get more, if your not in dance, and you aren't within 20 sec of blades, just send at any CP amount

[acoustic matrix]

I understand what Kela says but it's overcomplicated for marginal if any gain

[fleet wharf]

ok, yea that's also very fair, haha.

[jagged rover]

outside of cds your sending finishers at 6+ cp for the cdr on dances and sectec, so using energy to send on a 1 CP coup ( 6 CP finisher) vs building to a higher amount and sending is all the same

[tribal blade]

lost a 17 DB because both the tank and dk got dragonriding dc bug on last boss

smile

[fleet wharf]

That is very unfortunate. DB is such a buggy pos

[tribal blade]

i was CRANKING

i actually love doing DB as sub

feels amazing

[fleet wharf]

True. I'm also kind of surprised by how good Frost DK damage is too, kinda crazy

They also use prism right?

[tribal blade]

not 100% sure, i think they did but not anymore?

a lot of high key pushers are using prism because they time certain packs around it

pop 18 stacks and obliterate huge pulls

[fleet wharf]

That is 100% the way to push imo

[acoustic matrix]

How do you use your prism Graham ?

[tribal blade]

i use it with every blades atm

unless i want to hold for something big

i'm a little hesitant to hold it during keys because shit happens and deaths happen

like you can die and it's out of your control

and if you lose a fully stacked prism it's kinda gg

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah I have it macro'ed too but I was contemplating sending at 18

[tribal blade]

i died earlier in a 16 streets because i got double casted on in 2nd pull with my kick and other stuff on cd

not much i could ahve done

[acoustic matrix]

Cause I play cheat death for that reason

[tribal blade]

i have it seperately macroed atm

i have a blades+prism bind and solo blades bind

[acoustic matrix]

I have yet to die under def cd so I find cheat death more useful in my case

Might change at higher key level but rn even +16 casts dont one shot me in feint

[steady lark]

anyone has a good WA for trinket cds, the one I've been using for a while now tracks soleah as an on use and idk how to make it not do that

[tribal blade]

you can't really run cheat in higher keys unfortunately

you'll just die to rot dmg /cry

of which there is a LOT this season haha

[fleet wharf]

https://wago.io/3xIKwjYJZ try this

[acoustic matrix]

what key level did you start noticing cheat death wasn't cutting it ?

[tribal blade]

i haven't run cheat in any keys this season

i'm just so used to running elusiveness

[steady lark]

many thanks

[fair anchor]

Honestly dont think i could Swap from nelf just to be not able to meld double bolts anymore

[main stratus]

Hey, in raid we can macro prism with SB? Thought we use it every other SB. Or is that if using double on-use?

[acoustic matrix]

Oh then you'd be surprised. In 16s right now and I just don't die in feint

Only + would be evasion as an additional def cd but feint has low cd so it's not a game changer

[tribal blade]

maybe yeah

[sleek tide]

If 7 or less targets and flawless form is up do you always evis? Or do you black power at 4+ still

[tribal blade]

i dunno though, i'm thinking through the dungeons and there's quite a few dots in places

[acoustic matrix]

Sub is very tanky baseline

I often don't even have to feint

[lucid jackal]

only with doulbe on use

[acoustic matrix]

if it's a big dot I send it and it's not threatening

You should try it and see for yourself

[tribal blade]

what do you send?

[acoustic matrix]

feint

[tribal blade]

we don't have anything for dots if you play cheat

[acoustic matrix]

or crimson

[tribal blade]

feint won't work on dots

[turbid edge]

What slot are you guys looking to craft next after weapons and bracer? Do u go straight for belt if u don't get one from vault? Is boots ever an option or we really want the hero/myth soul hunters boots?

[acoustic matrix]

well then i'm feinting the wind and not dying lol

[lucid jackal]

just sim droptimizer

[tribal blade]

haha

[lucid jackal]

see what slot looks best

THeres no rush to replace belt

[fleet wharf]

P sure you dont craft boots though

[tribal blade]

well i think it would be good to get used to elusive asap

[lucid jackal]

even normal boots is really good

lol

[tribal blade]

because you'll run into a point where cheat will become useless in keys

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah that's what I was thinking

But I don't know if i'll push that high so I'm good rn

[tribal blade]

fair!

[fallow nimbus]

Why are gem sims so meaningless?

[tribal blade]

they're usually within margin of error

[fallow nimbus]

This sim wants crit, 5mins later vers

[fleet wharf]

you answred your own question lol

[tribal blade]

i run 4 different ones to max out the meta gem then just 1 on the rest of the slots

[fleet wharf]

You run stam gems too?

[fallow nimbus]

Does the weapon slot matter for stat enchants?

[fleet wharf]

Sim it

[tribal blade]

hell no

[fleet wharf]

so you run 1 haste gem?

[tribal blade]

yeah i have 1 haste gem

it's 147 haste

basically nothing

[fleet wharf]

hiss

haste

[fallow nimbus]

Going all 3 stats on both weapons results in double crit or crit/mast for me

[tribal blade]

i put the haste on too because i sometimes play sin for stuff

so it's not bad on sin

[winter ice]

Forgeweave such a fun fight for sub

[fallow nimbus]

I think i am just going with crit/mast gems with 1 mast and 1 vers+crit, mast ring and crit/mast for weapons

[fleet wharf]

Lot of banger fights for sub this tier tbh

[fleet wharf]

should be fine. those are minor gains anyway

[acoustic matrix]

Guys I notice I'm wasting a ton of CP by procing premeditation and shadow techniques at the same time. Is this avoidable ?

[haughty mural]

[limpid sage]

yes it's because coup can refund on all hits

it's a timing issue

[austere zodiac]

feels so weird when coup refunds

need a sound que

[iron plover]

It’s so slow it almost feels like you’re delaying into the next gcd

Also, which dungeons are not sub dungeons?

Streets for sure right?

[tribal blade]

something i wish they would fix, feels very janky

[limpid sage]

for some reason they decided coup needs to have a 1.2s gcd

[tribal blade]

streets is a big sub dungeon

[limpid sage]

so you can't input a builder just before it hits

[tribal blade]

i don't think sub is bad in any dungeon atm

[limpid sage]

also is world server down rn?

[iron plover]

If streets is a big one then I have no clue which one isn’t good

I feel like streets is the worst

[vague dragon]

look like

[iron plover]

We kinda slam in every other dungeon

[limpid sage]

i cri

[tribal blade]

nah i can consistently top in streets usually

[vague dragon]

friends who are connected shutdown server in 15mn

[acoustic matrix]

I knew about coup but it appears it happens after SecTech too ! Makes sense since it's a timing thing too

[vague dragon]

should be fix after

[austere zodiac]

my game isnt loading

gg

[limpid sage]

I've found that as well yes

donno if it's a recent change or just happens rarely

[iron plover]

That’s true but I still feel like it’s the worst out of all the dungeons

[tribal blade]

i think sub is great in every dungeon atm, but it's gonna become weird pretty soon because of the meta forming

[iron plover]

No util very sad

[austere zodiac]

i love sub in priory

idk why

goes crazy

[iron plover]

But we have big survivability

[tribal blade]

i think it's good for sub because any place that has a lot of smaller pulls sub does very well in

[fleet wharf]

u think there's any chance either sub or assa is in that meta comp?

[tribal blade]

because of nimble cap

[tribal blade]

honestly no

[iron plover]

Meta comp is like shammy dk mage

[tribal blade]

but class balance is good atm

[austere zodiac]

i dont think fdk is even gonna be in meta comp

[acoustic matrix]

Assa if they bugfix will be meta

[tribal blade]

so rogue can fit in current meta comps yes

[acoustic matrix]

It had enough damage to compensate for its lack of utility on PTR

[fleet wharf]

Bro FB 4set broke on me today during raid. so fucking annoying to do anything on assa rn

[lucid jackal]

Just play sub on all bosss

[iron plover]

Deserved for sin players

[tribal blade]

i just don't think you'll see the rank 1 teams running rogue except squish's team

[acoustic matrix]

lmao why deserved

[iron plover]

Because they’re not playing sub

[vague dragon]

normal u use Secret tech during dance and during dance u store u got symbol during symbol you store 40% of shadow technique, u just have to be carefull with coup de grace because that can Store combo point on each strike and waist cp using builder instead of finish again

[vale pine]

+1 this

[vague dragon]

just wait the finish of the animation

[tribal blade]

the interesting thing about sub atm is we have the opposite of funnel on bosses

[limpid sage]

ye he's experiencing it with sectec though

[tribal blade]

whenever tanks pull in trash into bosses we spam evis and do monster cleave to everything

[proven plover]

Idk just delay the Kb Till cb if it Bugs, its not that complicated

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah but don't you have to wait for the other shadows to hit too if you're at 5+ ShadowTech stacks ?

[fleet wharf]

Actually I have a mechanics related question. If you do sec tech while moving, does the clones hit your target or is the aoe going to be around where you cast it?

[vague dragon]

if you have 5stack during your dance and you use coup de grace just wait the end of the animation to get the refund

[acoustic matrix]

we're talking about sectech tho

[limpid sage]

you'll typically be at the end of a shadow dance (and immediately getting it up again - giving you premed) OR be at the start of a shadow dance sending sectec

[vague dragon]

there is no issue with secret technique

[limpid sage]

meaning you can't get the refund from sectecs latter hits

ye I've experienced it as well - I just think it's because sectec gcd is actually normal unlike coups

if coups gcd was 1 sec we'd be able to put a builder in as well

[proven plover]

Do all coup hits connect if you move away from the target after Pressing it

[austere zodiac]

whats a good 3rd craft is it ring angle

or sim angle

[dense mountain]

sim but i made ring

[acoustic matrix]

or myth track upgrade angle

[fleet wharf]

ring or neck prolly

maybe shoulder

[cloud rover]

I crafted a 704 Ring, so i could switch out the Gally ring

[fleet wharf]

why not send gilded?

[lusty root]

Yea, Lilly and fully stacked prism for burn 😄

[acoustic matrix]

Yeah looking more carefuly at the log I procced ShadowTech from Backstab and premeditation on top of it, wasn't sectech mb

[lusty root]

Yea, only one intermission

[vague dragon]

or what u can do is press ur symbol one gcd after dance + BS, so premed give you the combo point, then symbol to continu ur dance normally without overcap combo point store in shadow technique and premed.

[cloud rover]

Im Gilded starved

[austere zodiac]

what the helly

[cloud rover]

im like 190 gilded behind

[cloud rover]

Not on Cap

[austere zodiac]

i have a 675 neck

xdd

[cloud rover]

I mean like i need 190 Gilded to upgrade my current mythic gear

but im on cap

[austere zodiac]

i have 45 gilded to spend on myth track

i started gearing yesterday properly

done with hc gear

[vague dragon]

give loot to other people

[tribal blade]

gotcha

[cloud rover]

My Gilded for this week were already put into Prism and Forge

[austere zodiac]

i just need priory neck

[void ocean]

so whats the deal with Plexus shield, does this absorbed dmg count towards overall dps? i tried absorbedDamage > 0 and it seems like 1m of my dps got absorbed

[fleet wharf]

I can't find a passive trinke to save my life. I'm on lily and prism rn

[proper stone]

Could I please get some help, I’m new to all the logs…but all I believe that looks different to others would be a few talents and not doing symbols w/dance???
what am I doing wrong??

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AkKxnQLFNgjVpWty?fight=41&type=casts&source=1263&view=timeline

[austere zodiac]

i got one from timewalking

[acoustic matrix]

The problem is actually proc shadowtech on a generator. It's hard to track though. Does it mean if I'm at 3 combo points i'll proc it at 4 stacks of shadowtech ?

[cloud rover]

(i miss 4 Myth Track items and thats it)

[fleet wharf]

Don't worry, you get to do 30 keys in about 5 weeks time when .5 launches

[limpid sage]

if only it procced more than once every 1.75 min

because it's basically guaranteed to proc during opener

[austere zodiac]

yeah

[devout quarry]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

1.5 min proc would be gaming

[austere zodiac]

i dont have a raidbots sub anymore

im on welfare

i got a myth lily from vault

[limpid sage]

I saw that suggestion

[austere zodiac]

and myth legs last week

[limpid sage]

I approve

[fleet wharf]

maybe what I need is a discord boost or whatever it's called

I guess I'll run ragnaros once servers are back up

they'll come back right?

[lusty root]

Briefly looking, you aren’t running cold blood, which is kind of busted on our spec. As well I saw your secret technique sent before shadow blades for you second use of blades.

[limpid sage]

[fleet wharf]

Servers are back up in case anyone was wondering

[limpid sage]

not for me

just stuck on "Retrieving realm list"

[fleet wharf]

*beta servers are back up

[proper stone]

Sorry mate, are you saying that blades is used after second sec tech??

[wispy crystal]

Anyone can take a screenshot of a m+ spec ?

Saw some YT guide recommending rotten

[gritty gull]

Nope

[fleet wharf]

not a bad idea if you want to pad it up

[austere zodiac]

idk i tried rotten and finality

[fleet wharf]

we're pretty good at vacuuming up trash damage this tier

[austere zodiac]

i didnt play around either

idk if youre supposed to

[fallow totem]

so its better to run cold blood compared to tea in m+?

[austere zodiac]

probably pref

[fleet wharf]

no, run tea in m+ if you need to ask

[austere zodiac]

i run cold blood in everything

cant feel worse than assa st energy

[acoustic matrix]

Rogue is afk the game this season

[limpid sage]

you're not

[stable ridge]

should i use shadow blades after ST?

[austere zodiac]

i use it before

[acoustic matrix]

If you're fast you can ST before

It doesn't matter too much tho

[stable ridge]

Thanks, not trying to optimalize. just doing some chill +10s

[gritty gull]

Same time, make sure its up when ST hits

[limpid sage]

you used to press it after because ST didn't get buffed by shadow blades

[austere zodiac]

did they fix shadow blades interaction

[limpid sage]

but now it does

[acoustic matrix]

There's still the argument that the later hits of SecTechs are the beef of its damage and it gains you a gcd inside SB to use it before

But pretty sure it's marginal gains if any

[limpid sage]

so either you press it just before the shadow hits of sectec hit or send it before the first hit

[stable ridge]

Thanks

[limpid sage]

just be wary of desyncing if you do shadow blades after

[fleet wharf]

haste dagger from rag

[acoustic matrix]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BYc43nVxq8wdXJ7h?fight=4&type=resources&source=2&view=events&spell=104
Here's the part I don't understand @limpid sage at 0:17 he uses SecTech and then overcaps with premeditation but the event log doesn't say that he generated with shadow tech

[hoary bloom]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[limpid sage]

that does look weird

[wispy crystal]

Why does the Method guide have shuriken tornado in the M+ build ?

[vernal echo]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[vernal echo]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[vernal echo]

do i tab target rupture

yes no

in M+

[austere zodiac]

its personal preference

you can tab or mouse oer

or not spread at all

it depends if mobs grouped

[vernal echo]

looking at logs casual pressed 2x ruptures as me

I was only doing it on main target

[limpid sage]

I think it's because he had premed up (can't proc ShT refund) -> uses Shadowstrike proccing Premed -> Premed now gone so sectec can proc ShT with latter hits

[austere zodiac]

idk how huge of a damage gain it is

[topaz venture]

good for downtime when no cds

u spread

for dps

or when a trash group is being grouped u can just rupture

[vernal echo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1135456134971523093/1413427427539030107/image.png?ex=68bbe45e&is=68ba92de&hm=5316eb29b71996783d811f25a6e22595b7c0f61ca0447fe6dfc2c6837b00ad9a&

13 halls

13 eco*

[austere zodiac]

details is bad for actually checking damage events no?

[vernal echo]

kinda

i didnt log

just mroe fore damage % break down

than cast #

[hollow spear]

these details screenshots are omega useless imo

[austere zodiac]

details screenshots are the brainrot of wow

[vernal echo]

lol

I get people who DM me their just damage meter and be like did i do good

who im teaching havoc

[limpid sage]

ALSO it seems like Premed first procs 33 ms after Shadowstrike, which might mean that it consumes the buff first and then gives the cp - but in that window secret technique hit in between leading to some janky stuff

[keen dome]

EU is back up

[limpid sage]

purely speculative though xd

[hollow spear]

I don't even read my own logs as in-depth as Zak reviews lorrgs stuff

[limpid sage]

it do be up

swag

[hollow spear]

940 ms?

[limpid sage]

30

[vale pine]

nice

tho i am not sure how many play to early eu times

[keen dome]

I can finally return to my very pressing tasks of the day: sitting on my rock idle while I play silksong

[karmic harbor]

@tranquil sorrel how did you do?

[vale pine]

how long did you play so far, also how is your experience so far?

[keen dome]

Only a few hours. It's excellent. Everything that made Hollow Knight an instant classic is here. But just.. better. More refined, more detailed.

[vale pine]

nice

[keen dome]

The music is superb, the art is just absolutely stellar. It has more depth and detail. The combat refinements are good.

They spent 7 years making the game they wanted to make and it shows, and that's good

[vale pine]

they had fun making it

^^

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

which is rare in the industry

[keen dome]

I'm a big fan of developers being paid more to work less to make stuff they love

[vale pine]

i think its hard for many

because interessts and skills are so diffrent

[keen dome]

Ye, different people work differently. But in an ideal world it should be about making the project you wanna make

[vale pine]

e.g. hollow knight was not the most inovative roguelike, but it was a very distinct and well put together one in a time most of them lacked in at least one area

[keen dome]

Well, it's not a roguelike.

[limpid sage]

I've only played the Ori series - can you recommend?

[keen dome]

Absolutely

I'd recommend gettign the OG game, Hollow Knight and playing it first.

It's one of the best Metroidvania's ever made, up there with Ori.

and Silksong is just That But Betterer

[vale pine]

metroidvenia? i haven't kept up with the genre naming shananigans as it makes no sense

[limpid sage]

metroidvanias are basically sidescrollers with non-linear progression

[keen dome]

Yeah, Metroidvania. Games that are exploration focused with backtracking and secrets.

It's a bit of an archaic term these days since we've not had a Castlevania like SoTN in a long time but it fits the mold.

Map exploration, non-linear progression. Blocks and walls requiring items to come back to attain. Typically RPG-lite rather than heavy

[vale pine]

i mean the term roguelike makes no sense too

[keen dome]

Well, it's a game that is like rogue.

[vale pine]

both just vaguely define a framework with no clear definition

[keen dome]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1443430/Rogue/

Steam

Rogue

In the early 1980s, a computer game emerged that changed the world of fantasy gaming forever. Randomly generated rooms meant that each journey into the infamous Dungeons of Doom was unique. The potent combination of random generation with perma-death proved to be intoxicating, and the game was so influential it spawned an entire genre: "Rogue-…

Price

$2.99

Recommendations

450

▶ Play video

[vale pine]

but roguelikes are... mostly not like rogue

[keen dome]

True 😄

[vale pine]

and then there is roguelite

[keen dome]

I feel like the term has become very, very broad

[vale pine]

its like

[keen dome]

Whereas Metroidvania's are pretty niche. There's a handful.

[vale pine]

if i would say jump and runs are defined by

you need to restart at level 1-1 every time you die

because it was the main definition back then

[keen dome]

Mario is a roguelike, it's true

[vale pine]

and you can't backtrack

so

modern mario games

you can go back too

or don't restart 1-1

are not jump and runs anymore

so i introduce a new term

jump and run lite

or sth

[rocky thorn]

is there still a log review chanel/ threads?

[vale pine]

or call it mario-like

or because there was also sonic

we call it mario-sonic

[vale pine]

just type !log

neverless, enough rambling about the vague definition and naming shananigans

[limpid sage]

fuu, do you know if the preserving rotten stacks optimization for shadowstrike used symbols right after or waited till start of next gcd?

[zinc river]

why do i have 108 % mastery on subt spec ?

[vale pine]

only optimization that makes a diffrence is to use blades after your first builder in dance

[limpid sage]

oh so sectec into blades just before latter part hits is actually an optimization?

I thought it was neutral

[rocky thorn]

!log

[vale pine]

if you secret first gcd thats fine to blades

but e.g. in the opener

you backstab-secret-blades

[limpid sage]

how much of a diff is it?

[karmic harbor]

If I have trinket macrod to blades ig I send it right before sectech?

[vale pine]

think it does not matter in the end. it might be better to just use the baseline genres for definitions.
What matters is, metroid, castlevania, bomberman, mario, ori and hollow knight are all great games worth plaing ^^

[limpid sage]

wait default apl uses blades after sectec?

or opposite

I'm confused

[vale pine]

thats just

removing premeditation optimizations from blades

[carmine portal]

Finally

some luck from something

[vale pine]

nuce

[carmine portal]

yippie

[vale pine]

speed

[scenic plover]

how bad is it to only use a backstep+shadowstrike macro with stealth modifier?

[limpid sage]

I just realized

you can get bubbling wax from the waterworks kobolds

[hoary bloom]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

no need to solo darkflame cleft anymore

[vale pine]

i usually farmed it by pickpocketing there

only the image

[scenic plover]

is this a big damage loss?

[vale pine]

no

just use

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

this too

[fossil forge]

Some1 was cooking here yesterday someting bout a macro with /use shadowstrike and/use evis so u dont waste refunds or sum

[vale pine]

so you can backstab in dance by using your dance key

[fossil forge]

Did it work

[scenic plover]

is it still fine if i dont use that tho?

[plush crescent]

!belt

!disc

[vale pine]

its not big diffrence

[vale pine]

what exactly do you search for

the nerf make it easier to replace

a heroic version should be enough to get rid of it

[plush crescent]

I just wanna know what disc power to use for it in m+ and raid st

[scenic plover]

the nerf only comes into the game in like a month tho right

[vale pine]

best is to sim, because it can be gear dependent

[plush crescent]

Thank u fuu

~704 crit mastery belt

? or msut be vers mastery

[fleet wharf]

If you have coups up going into cd, you still sec tech first after flag or is it use up coups and then sec tech to resume sequencing?

[vale pine]

any combination of crit/vers/mastery can be better

[acoustic matrix]

wouldn't that force you to shadow dance at low combo

[plush crescent]

ok thank you

[acoustic matrix]

cause I often need to spend before I proc premed

[vale pine]

no because the backstab cast is only on 2nd macro press

[scenic plover]

in aoe and compared to 707 belts the disc still wins for me

[vale pine]

so you can control it

[vale pine]

secret has highest prio

[acoustic matrix]

Oh I get it

[tribal blade]

@short radish listening to yoda go in great detail about how broken arcane is gives me great validation

[vale pine]

i played with some guildies

[plush crescent]

What are the main powers being used for disc belts? my sim is gonna take a while

[vale pine]

and the fact that we run out of shadow dance/symbols due to cdr/cd's

[plush crescent]

dont need absolute bis just a good baseline

[upbeat sorrel]

is lily and prism much better than signet and lily? assuming mastery is highest stat

[vale pine]

which other classes don't while providing similar or higher damage

[fleet wharf]

you absolutely want prism. Lily is whatever

[vale pine]

means subtlety still isn't the ultimate golden bullet spec

[upbeat sorrel]

err sorry i mean signet and prism

[vale pine]

but prism and smart pulling can help

[tribal blade]

i just find it a bit annoying how you can brick your cds if you use too much dance+symbols

[vale pine]

you can't recover

which is the worse thing

[tribal blade]

yeah it's not recoverable

unless you just hold

[vale pine]

ye

but that also means pulls take forever

[tribal blade]

yeah sub pairs very well with specs that do steady dmg

[vale pine]

e.g. a balance druid will whipe the floor with you in aoe if its not burst aoe

[tribal blade]

i think fury warr and sub atm are a great pairing

in keys

[vale pine]

a dh/mage is not as fragil and does very similar output

[tribal blade]

havoc and arcane are def meta specs atm

[vale pine]

i am not saying sub is bad, but its numerical still not insane

and only in the meta because we can abuse netherprism

[limpid sage]

anyone know if the rep from delves is on a weekly lockout or you can get multiple if you haven't gotten it the other weeks?

the 1250 k'aresh thingy

[tribal blade]

sub is in a good spot for sure

[tribal blade]

yes it's on weekly lockout

[limpid sage]

:(

[tribal blade]

it'll roll which rep it gives you at the end, and if you've earned that rep for the week it just won't give you rep

something like that

[limpid sage]

I didn't know till this week

[tribal blade]

yeah me neither

my guildies were surprised too

i think it might be new

[limpid sage]

I'll max get 16 renown this week then

ig

[tribal blade]

prob to prevent people from just getting lucky and fasttracking renown on rng

i hit 19 this week 😉

[upbeat sorrel]

is the macro in !macros the best way to use lily and prism together

was wondering if it'd work since lily is 1:30

[vale pine]

best use of prism is on a seperate key

because you sometimes want to stack to 18

!prism

[wicked jolt]

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

[tribal blade]

lily is pretty bad to use with prism

[vale pine]

but if you only use prism as an on use, its perfectly fine to just macro with blades

[tribal blade]

better off using a passive in the lily slot i think

[upbeat sorrel]

just trying to get more juice in soul hunters fight

looks like most sub rogues are running 2 on use

[karmic harbor]

Any of you farmed the augment rune toy yet

[tribal blade]

yes

[karmic harbor]

😩

[proven plover]

Because of the movement antenna is worse than forge

But lily is not really a very good Alternative to forge

[tribal blade]

you turn lily into a 3 min trink

[open vortex]

Lily + Prism sims higher than Pacemaker Prism for me

Not by much tho but still works out

[tribal blade]

interesting

[upbeat sorrel]

its 100k im broke now

had to buy it twice

my druid needed one too

[lilac stag]

Lily Lily 18prism, repeat

The 18

[karmic harbor]

this is my forge heroic sim, compared to 723 lily and heroic prism

[alpine wraith]

upgrading a lilly to 723 is something

[lilac stag]

Max Lily was 74k for me. Max forge 100k

going from lfr forge

[proven plover]

I mean ye myth track maxed lily vs hc forge is just a numbers Adventage because of the ilvl

On an even field forge would be better

Just trust sim on that one ig and use lily how scath said

[lilac stag]

It’s not a bad option. Just not “bis”

In keys you’re just farming 18 stacks so

[limpid sage]

don't spawn kyveza in mycomancer cavern while in the water

[fleet wharf]

must have been fun

[limpid sage]

def was

used flag and she swam away downwards

then teleported back up when I didn't have flag

[void ocean]

i like when bran is having agro when he starts moving zig-zag behind my back

[limpid sage]

sick blizz

got happy for a sec

[upbeat sorrel]

is there anything good that drops from delves

[limpid sage]

yes rings

[fleet wharf]

so you just lost the pvp match. unfortunate

[limpid sage]

that aren't haste

[winter ice]

Anyone recall what the macro would be for double on use forge+prism? if you do /use 13 and then /use 14 it should sync right ?

[upbeat sorrel]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[limpid sage]

she outspaced me hard

[fleet wharf]

maybe you should hold your cds until you have stunlock

[limpid sage]

truly a skill issue

[short radish]

Got complimented by an arcane mage after I gapped him by 3m dps in flood gate. This state of sub is doing great things for my ego

But yeah it does feel bad when flag comes up with the pack half way dead

And you know if you send you dont get full use of cds

[alpine wraith]

yea it is funny

[short radish]

But if you don't send you just double dance and sit on flag for 40 second

[stiff pollen]

with prism + ritual forge is the actual play in first cds to use prism so in the 2 rotation of cds you have max prism stacks, or should ritual forge be first use and then on the next set use prism with "suboptimal" stacks?

[alpine wraith]

first forge

[fleet wharf]

@short radish so what's the play in that situation? which is less bad?

[alpine wraith]

then prism

[short radish]

Are you playing for your damage numbers or timing the key

[alpine wraith]

you want to have cds for next pack

[short radish]

Tbh even that's not a right answer

[fleet wharf]

I'm guessing you send flag to time keys and hold for bigger ego

[short radish]

Holding sometimes is right i feel

[alpine wraith]

depends on travel time and other things

[short radish]

Depends if your other party is sending

[fleet wharf]

yea, I also run into situations like that and I wasn't sure. My compromise is to send flag without prism

[short radish]

Because you just more stacks on prism as well

[alpine wraith]

but also if pack is going to be stragglers tank should just chain

[mighty citrus]

In keys I almost never hold

[short radish]

Yeah theres no definite answer

[mighty citrus]

Just send it guys

[short radish]

Usually its always send though

[alpine wraith]

you have to be there kinda to make the decision

sometimes i send other times i dont

[fleet wharf]

Can you even do log review to see if you made the right call afterwards though?

I feel it's kind of hard with keys

[short radish]

Hold 30 seconds 3 times and that's one usage lost

[mighty citrus]

Exactly

Just fking send it, if unsure

[short radish]

Also packs dying faster generally is good overall

[mighty citrus]

You will
Notice

If it was a bad choice

[short radish]

More keys you run the more you figure out how long a pack will doe

Die

[fleet wharf]

you guys also sending it as sub on all keys btw? I kind of don't like the ds 4set so I haven't touched much sin after getting 4p

[short radish]

I haven't touched assi since w1 or something

No need to

[mighty citrus]

I played both and I just like sub more

[fleet wharf]

yea, I went on holiday and just came back last week

[mighty citrus]

It’s pure preference for most people

[short radish]

But Im not a p*sher

[fleet wharf]

yea, sub feels fine for your vault keys for sure

[mighty citrus]

If you get to really high keys you surely can argue

But if you only do like 12-13 ish

[karmic harbor]

I'm not playing sin again this season

[mighty citrus]

Sub is fine

[fleet wharf]

It was nice to snipe bunch of trash as sin last tier though

[karmic harbor]

[short radish]

Yeah fuck playing sin

Even on fract

[fleet wharf]

but my fingers hurt after too many sub keys reee

[short radish]

Sub all the way

[short radish]

Nah man you have downtime to rest your fingers

[mighty citrus]

For raid I would just love a tiny bit more st

[short radish]

Sub is the ultimate chill spec

[fleet wharf]

I just rebound my shift+q key and it has been helping already

[mighty citrus]

The spec and trickster are fun to me

[short radish]

Best iteration of sub I've played since I came back in shadowlands

[cursive vapor]

is it correct that for dungeon slice the raid build sims better for me?

[karmic harbor]

Bring back death from above

[fleet wharf]

for raiding yea, but for keys I feel we don't really get much downtime as sub

[short radish]

Doesn't matter, they're all so similar anyway

[proven plover]

Have you ever tried outlaw

[cursive vapor]

aight

[short radish]

As long as you have replicating shadows

And even then it's kinda whatever

[fleet wharf]

no, but I did do one boss as fury and decided it wasn't for me. I have a feeling it would be a similar story for outlaw

[proven plover]

My wrist is still recovering from the first half of s1

[fleet wharf]

I thought S1 was mostly sub +assa tier?

[proven plover]

I just liked outlaw

[fleet wharf]

I might give it a shot once I can craft weapon in .5 or something

or maybe not if I value my wrist health

[left flame]

!backstab

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[winter elbow]

why cant i just sim weapon ench? i have both weaps selected and want to simm all the ench? what am i missing ehre?

[stiff stirrup]

Is there a way to know when coup gives the delayed combo points?

[lilac stag]

Replace enchants tick box

[winter elbow]

lol, tyvm

[void ocean]

wait, can we still see other ppls astral antenna orbs?

[topaz venture]

nope

that would be ridiculous

[vale pine]

it would be fun if we can see and collect other peoples orbs

[topaz venture]

or phase right through and get no buffs

[fathom adder]

duality of men

[queen plinth]

Is sub still as annoying to play as back in df?

[short radish]

No

[earnest canyon]

if i am doing my rotation well, and i save symbols and dance around 20 second before flag comes back, are there certian times i send naked secret techs without dance or symbol? (eg 20~25 seconds before flag/shadow blade comes back up)

[cursive vapor]

my raid build is without replicating and this build + swapping my weapons is like 3% more dps lol

[vale pine]

antenna is not like that

its rly harmless

[fathom adder]

@earnest canyon when you do one dance between cds there is a window where you can symbols + sectec without dance and without losing anything for the cd window

[earnest canyon]

so if i do everything perectly, there should be no naked secret techs right

[void ocean]

I saw hachas video so... 😄

about seeing other ppls astral orbs

[keen trellis]

You could send dry SecTec but that it not recommended, it is like 30s until flag and you know you will have 100% uptime

[limpid sage]

guys

archon used to have a dungeon ease tier list

but I can't find it anymore

it's still there right

[fathom adder]

no naked sectec, sectec only with symbols

[keen trellis]

Yea then as Amber said, kinda after every 2nd major CDs you have 1 symbol only SecTec

[chrome palm]

https://www.archon.gg/wow/tier-list/dps-rankings/mythic-plus/10/all-dungeons/this-week

[cursive vapor]

@vale pine is dungeon slice a good thing? or patchwerk for raid and m+?

[north schooner]

dslice is good

[vale pine]

for gearing, yes

for talents, you often want to spezialise more on cleave or single target so its not always the best option

[celest night]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[last gate]

should i ever bother sending sectec naked?

[vale pine]

no

its not worth the amount of damage you lose if you do it incorretcly

[last gate]

thanks

[haughty sun]

any1 know if the crafted fibers get destroyed if u change it?

[lilac stag]

They do not

[vale pine]

you get it in your bag

so you don't even lose the old fibre

[lilac stag]

You can just right(?) click the fiber in the item window and it pops out

[vale pine]

yes

you can dynamically switch them