subtlety

[tribal blade]

ahh cool

[spring pumice]

oh sounds great, where can i find these threads?

ah nvm in the top bar, got it

[jagged hamlet]

Im on mobile so it may look differently for you but if you click up at the top next to #subtlety with an arrow. It expands a menu that has threads

Id also use search function for certain phrases

[austere zodiac]

1 good tip is learning from the people who review your logs

and looking at your own logs

atleast for me it helped a ton cuz you know how you played

and then you start picking up on the things you mess up on the fly

i think that sounds logical

hopefully

[spring pumice]

yeah i remember playing dk and just a single post of logs made me go from mostly purple to mostly orange logs by paying attention to the min maxy stuff they said i was doing wrong

but with rogue i definitely need way more help lmao

[austere zodiac]

DK is pretty easy to log review especially frost

[spring pumice]

yeah it was frost in s1

[austere zodiac]

since its mostly globals in pillar bonegrinder etc

km usage

[ripe flame]

@warm marlin

[warm marlin]

yep

bro got hands

[austere zodiac]

i think people focus on parsing and that limits alot of people from actually improving

[ripe flame]

Didn't make it out of p1 tonight unlucky

[warm marlin]

p1 probably the hardest part

[short radish]

you can kinda say same same about sub as well

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[short radish]

something something 8 globals

something something opener pressing buttons right

[austere zodiac]

sub seems complicated at the start too imo

[ripe flame]

Felt like an enter the gungeon late stage

[austere zodiac]

(ive played the game for 2 seasons now) and ive seen people complicate things that arent complicated

but its subjective at the end

[spring pumice]

this is my opener rn but i feel like thats correct no?

[vale pine]

roughly 1% dps

[spring pumice]

i feel like i got the opening sequence i just get lost later on during mechanics

[austere zodiac]

thats definitely the hard part on sub imo

but it comes with repetition

[spring pumice]

yeah i swapped to sub last week

muscle memory def aint there yet

and ive only had like 2 weeks on assa

[austere zodiac]

i started the game as assa then s2 played frost dk for some reason and tried other classes but nothing hits like rogue

[spring pumice]

yeah i like assa too but the desyncing on FB when it happens is extremely frustrating

so id rather focus on sub for now

[austere zodiac]

assa is giga sleeper in raid

i liked nerubar palace tho

[spring pumice]

i played dk in s1 and enh in s2

[toxic swan]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[austere zodiac]

i think imma focus on 1 class

[spring pumice]

i keep telling myself that every tier :[

im too washed to keep swapping specs every tier

hopefully i can stick with rogue cuz at least it has 3 dps specs

[austere zodiac]

this was my first MMO ive played and idk some dopamine receptor goes crazy when your good at 1 class and multiple specs on it

[spring pumice]

i dont think ive played the same spec 2x in a row since like legion

[austere zodiac]

i dont think i have the brainpower to get good at multiple classes

even though melee classes are fairly straightforward

[spring pumice]

i can usually pick them up fairly fast to an acceptable level for an avg CE guild but rogue is definitely the worst performance ive had ever so far lol

[austere zodiac]

i need to spam 10s again bruh

[young roost]

Welcome to the dark side

Sub is very rewarding to play

[austere zodiac]

outlaw isnt a spec

i tried it

nah

[young roost]

My man

[austere zodiac]

they ruined it with the vanish gameplay

and i think stealth as a mechanic is very outdated

[vale pine]

assassination is probably the easier to perform well on, so if you started out as subtlety, might be expected

[shrewd lantern]

outlaw feels like a constant rhythm game

if you fuck it up

it feels like shit

[austere zodiac]

and it doesnt have highs

it has lows and mid highs

no big cd = no dopamine

[shrewd lantern]

its just a constant feedback loop

that is static

[spring pumice]

yeah sub is super overwhelming if you dont know anything about the spec and start from scratch

[shrewd lantern]

sub has periods you’re pretty much afk

then you drop a nuke

then wait to do it again

[austere zodiac]

i saw the old talent trees from like shadowlands and i thought they just moved the baseline abilities or passives into the tree and i think they fucked up there

idk how buggy rogue has been pre war within

but its insane

[shrewd lantern]

sl sub you had to

gearswap every pull

to abuse a legendary

[austere zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/uni-cat-1000-yard-stare-espresso-gif-5540644428338043927

[spring pumice]

how do i make a thread within this channel for logs btw? cant seem to find a create thread button

[young roost]

Fuck what legendary was that?

I can't remember

[shrewd lantern]

deathly shadows

[young roost]

Yes yes that's right

[austere zodiac]

how long ago was shadowlands

[shrewd lantern]

you equipped it to vanish for ful cp to snd

then requipped

[young roost]

Yeah

I remember now

[shut ridge]

can we please petition to get 1m30sec CDs reset

[shrewd lantern]

2 years

[shut ridge]

I'm too stupid and went into a pull without blades

i want to die

[austere zodiac]

snd being passive is the best change ive felt during my time

especially on assa

useless ass button

but tea change was crazy weird

[fallow nimbus]

Tea would be perfect for a choice node

[austere zodiac]

tbh i dont even notice tea on subtlety

[fallow nimbus]

Manual use or autotrigger

[austere zodiac]

it just pops off sometimes

[shrewd lantern]

I’m a tea hater

and cb truther

[spring pumice]

!logs

[shrewd lantern]

[young roost]

Haven't tried running CB over tea this season..how do you like it?

[shrewd lantern]

You get bigger st nukes

[winter sedge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty sun]

Hi! Any1 got nice WA to track shadow technique stored combo points?

[outer goblet]

whats the thinking behind swapping 2 stacks of finality out for inevitibility and the rotten?

[short radish]

vibes > guides

[short radish]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[vale pine]

inev is stronger on single target, which isn't a bad pick in mythic+

you don't bring subtlety to your dungeon for its insane aoe

[dusk stone]

Nvm got it

[haughty sun]

thanks!

[outer goblet]

I do understand the single point swap for a slight ST gain at a slight aoe loss but also taking rotten seems to be a loss in both aoe and st to the 1 point finality

[dry plank]

Seems or sims?

Feelcraft vs simcraft?

[outer goblet]

sims

[limpid sage]

Rotten sims better for me on both ST and AOE

But I got 18% crit

[outer goblet]

the top gear is 1 finality + inevitability and the M+ is just 2 in finality. Rotten is only 0.2% ahead in ST on the 2 points in finality but 1.1% behind 1 point finality while also behind on an aoe sim and also behind on a floodgate expert mode sim so i just don't see it winning from the 1 point anywhere.

I am pretty crit/mastery heavy at 29% crit and 100% mastery with 12% haste and 9% vers

[limpid sage]

Ye that def takes some power away from rotten

[iron plover]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[rocky ocean]

how long is gcd for energy specs

[alpine wraith]

1 sec baseline

otlaw is special with ADR

[mint violet]

friends, may I inquire about how to make usage of tricks more comfortable?

[short radish]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[haughty meadow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[tulip gorge]

you cast tricks once at the start of the dungeon then you forget about it

[limpid sage]

What’s that?

[short radish]

nah i press it before every pull out of habit

[rocky ocean]

adrenaline rush reduces gcd based off haste

[topaz venture]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[limpid sage]

Ahhh

[void ocean]

any info on Prism changes?

[limpid sage]

Maybe that’s why they put Coup gcd on 1.2

[limpid sage]

wait are they changing prism

[void ocean]

Unyielding Netherprism no longer fails to split damage and scale as intended.

[keen dome]

That's good, right

I just woke up and my brain is stupid.

[void ocean]

dont know

came here to be told

😄

[keen dome]

It sounds good

Although it's the agi we want so the damage is kinda w/e. It does more than Sigil for me atm which is probably not intended

[void ocean]

ye, i kinda tho w/e the changes r, its not the part we care

[haughty mural]

Sigil sucks

[keen dome]

It does

It's so bad

I've been trying to get a replacement trinket but nothing is dropping lmao

[haughty mural]

I tested it enough in all contents

It’s just bad

[keen dome]

Yep

[haughty mural]

It’s just a agi stat stick

[keen dome]

Every single time the Prism does more damage than it does.

[haughty mural]

Without a second part

[keen dome]

I was so, so sure that it'd be the sleeper trinket for M+

And I am so, so wrong.

[haughty mural]

Or atleast a little bit dmg on ST

[vale pine]

unless the intended scale is worse, its good

[void ocean]

what about that dmg splitting

does it mean it used to hit only one target sometimes?

[alpine wraith]

no just dealt the dmg and split without the extra scaling from what i read

[limpid sage]

where do you see this?

[void ocean]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/the-war-within-hotfixes-september-2/2144182/172

[keen dome]

Player deaths in Mythic +2 and +3 keystones no longer reduces the timer or displays a death count in the objective window.

That's cool

[limpid sage]

big ty

[inner garnet]

I heared a streamer saying that "as long as you have no haste on your gear, you good" - is this still true when a ring with crit/haste is simming +30k higher than a vers/mastery for me? (691 ilvl vers/mas vs 701 haste/crit)

[limpid sage]

lmao

[keen dome]

It's simming higher 'cos of the crit, I assume.

[limpid sage]

did you remember to enchant and add sockets as well?

[inner garnet]

Yeah fully enchanted and socekted.

[limpid sage]

is it very crit heavy?

[keen dome]

I doubt it's simming better due to the Haste, but we do want a lot more Crit right now.

[limpid sage]

ye there's no achievable dr that makes you want haste over the other stats

[inner garnet]

I have 6700 crit & 989 haste with my 691 ring and with the 701 I have: 12400 crit & 7500 haste.

[keen dome]

Ye, it's because of the crit.

[inner garnet]

So I was lacking a bit of crit and can trust the sim?

[limpid sage]

that sounds funky

try link the sim

[inner garnet]

a sec.

[vale pine]

massive nerf, unplayable now

[limpid sage]

how am I gonna pad on myself now

[inner garnet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iJpaXiikAFQQXPwGzDYn99

[limpid sage]

I wonder if there's people that've killed themselves to soaking last boss arakara thingy and then critting with forge

[fossil forge]

I wiped our entire raid because i died to my trinket instead of soaking

[limpid sage]

ah ye it's super crit heavy

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's just after the crit

[limpid sage]

this made it sound like it somehow had 5700 crit and 6k+ haste

[inner garnet]

ah my bad.

[limpid sage]

maybe I misunderstood

[keen dome]

I read it as being their before / after crit

But ye - my sim has been demanding SO MUCH CRIT too. I swapped gems / enchants.

[limpid sage]

ye I just didn't understand the huge increase in haste as well hahah

[keen dome]

It makes sense since coup critting is big

[keen dome]

It's just the crit is so valuable that the haste is w/e.

[limpid sage]

maybe alchemical chaos swapped to haste at the same time

[inner garnet]

I think my flask triggered the haste. With the haste/crit ring i have: 4000 haste & 12600 crit ^^

[flint steppe]

Has anyone noticed how "So Tricky" (1 hour Tricks of the Trade trickster rogue talent) applies threat to a Tank who dies and releases in M+? Is it too much of a liability to use, and maybe "Don't Be Suspicious" (blind/shroud reduced CD, longer sap range) shared choice node is safer to take?

[limpid sage]

ye now it makes sense xd

[inner garnet]

:D

So its fine to run the crit/haste ring or would you still opt for the vers/mas?

[tribal blade]

yes it's an issue, but tank realistically shouldn't be dying

[limpid sage]

I personally have benefitted from that bug more than ended a run because of it

[tribal blade]

also usually it's a wipe if tank dies

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[keen dome]

I just listen to the robot

[limpid sage]

completely fine - just go with whatever the sim tells you is best

[keen dome]

It's not ideal, but crit good

[inner garnet]

gotcha!

[limpid sage]

just be skeptical to human errors

[inner garnet]

thanks both of you!

[flint steppe]

Ya earlier it helped keep a low health packs alive and aggrod on the tank and helped, but sometimes it causes mobs to beeline halfway across the dungeon and pull on a scale not scene since Gnomeregan in classic

not seen*

[limpid sage]

like if a 90% haste, 10% crit ring sims higher it's prob because you forgot to enchant and socket your current ring

[untold bone]

is there any embellishment commands that shows bis embellishments for M+ / raid?

[limpid sage]

(doubt it'd be worth even then, but still)

[keen dome]

Focusing Lens or Dawnthread. They're very whatever.

Or Duskthread, whichever is the versatility one

[limpid sage]

ascension/writhing for raid

since fights are very long

[fallow totem]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[limpid sage]

also sims better on 3 mins for me for some reason

[keen dome]

Bet it's the crit again

[limpid sage]

ya I'm sitting on 18%

still sitting on jastor diamond xd

[flint steppe]

Also was Unyielding Netherpism stealth nerfed today? Previously I was starting M+ with 18 stacks for a huge buff, but now it seems like it resets to 0 when the key starts

[keen dome]

You can't start it with 18 stacks

[limpid sage]

it's always reset

[flint steppe]

I was starting with 18 stacks all last week

[limpid sage]

as soon as bubble goes down it removes stacks

[keen dome]

Pulling a raid boss or starting a key resets the stacks.

It's always worked like this.

[flint steppe]

Thats how trinkets are supposed to work, but last week it wasn't--- I was paying close attention to the buff

anyways ty, later

[short radish]

jastor is bugged

[cold helm]

my sim is demanding alot of crit over mastery is that supposed to be like that?

[short radish]

sometimes it do be like that

[keen dome]

Ye, it is. Crit value is up this season.

[cold helm]

4,5k crit- 22k mastery and 17,5k vers

[keen dome]

I assume because of double coup and critting all of the coup strikes is huge. So crit value is big.

[cold helm]

is my crit too low?

[keen dome]

If the sim says it is, yes.

Just listen to the sim. It's doing the complex math for you

[karmic harbor]

Listen to the robot

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

what does this mean

[karmic harbor]

How do I sim the last 2 bosses so I can convince my RL to give me the forgeweaver trinket

[limpid sage]

good or bad bug

[keen dome]

bad

let me find it

[short radish]

[karmic harbor]

Check pins

[haughty mural]

Id really love a plexus ring and my robots crit demands are gonzo 🙂

[short radish]

#assassination message

[proven plover]

whispyr wrote about it in assa channel

[karmic harbor]

Oh wait, pins in #assassination

[keen dome]

Beaten by Fimb

Damn

it's worth it to scroll down 2 posts from that and look at the cat image too

[astral axle]

[limpid sage]

brother what

and ofc alpha ring didn't drop yesterday

so I'm stuck with this stinky poo ring

[keen dome]

Time to delve

[karmic harbor]

Time to do m+

[limpid sage]

oh that's true

[keen dome]

There's some nice Delve rings

[limpid sage]

need to test my luck with map

any with crit/vers crit/mast?

[keen dome]

I think so?

[limpid sage]

off the top of your head

[astral axle]

olden 👴

[keen dome]

I'm not 100% sure. I think I got one but vendored it before realising I needed more crit

[limpid sage]

damn

surely it'll drop off my first map

[keen dome]

Not bad if you can get it

I believe

[astral axle]

dyou have any of those emitters or w/e

dont those help with fishing maps

[keen dome]

Yes, it spawns the nemesis so you can get a map immediately

Shrieking Quartz this season

[onyx dawn]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
We do not recommend macroing your cooldowns together because most of them result in performance losses compared to using them manually.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key as well.

[limpid sage]

did you guys know you can shadowstep while being thrown by fractillus?

I found out yesterday

would've saved me from a lot of pain last week

[nova dew]

hey guys quick question, if im at 4 targets with find weakness but i wna funnel. do i still bp or switch to eviscerate?

[limpid sage]

then you switch to evis

[nova dew]

ty

[astral axle]

dumb question: if we get lucky during opener with cdr and can send second sectech during first dance, we still wanna send it w/ supercharger yeah? Is it just a risk of the clone delay hitting after dance?

[limpid sage]

yes that's best case scenario

just spam dance if it's at the end of dance

[astral axle]

i get there often enough and have been trying to symbols earlier then evisc so the cdr can make a more optimal window for the sec tech and clones delay to fit in first dance but

something tells me that's too risky/overthinking it

[limpid sage]

it's completely fine sending symbols 1 finisher before sectec

as long as sectec gets supercharged you're good

[astral axle]

thank you o7

[shadow lance]

In SB, it's very fine, I had discussion few days ago where I've been told by a better player to always supercharge sectech first in classic dances

Unless Coup proc, always dance/sod/sectech for the escalating blades

[marble sail]

Got funneled gear last night

[void ocean]

Can you fck up wall breaking with this?

[short radish]

dont think so

i was doing it all through prog

as long as you do it AFTER the knockback

[limpid sage]

nope goes through still

[void ocean]

How do u break wall if u never reach it

[limpid sage]

ask blizzard

[short radish]

you break it with your aura

[void ocean]

Kek

Alright

[limpid sage]

fax

[short radish]

something something airpressure

look dont question how things work on fractilus

like why feint doesnt work on the aoe circles

but it does on the dot

sometimes it just do what it do

[void ocean]

This season is a fckin ptr

[short radish]

every season is a ptr

dont worry im sure it'll be fixed for midnight

[limpid sage]

ackshully 🤓👆🏼 prob because as soon as the knockback goes through it's already decided when the wall will break and the visual representation is just synced to that timer

[void ocean]

It didnt feel that buggy last season, at least to me

[short radish]

1st boss rookery

[keen dome]

That goddamn bird

[void ocean]

I did most of my keys last season as assa 🤣

Being sub felt like inting

[flint steppe]

So sometimes I accidentally doubletap Symbols of Death and waste a charge, could I solve this with a cast sequence macro combined with a spell that will be impossible to cast against a target in combat like Sap? Like "/castsequence reset 1 Symbols of Death, Sap" ?

[short radish]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[flint steppe]

Ok thats better than my idea, ty

Improved Shadow Techniques/Planned Execution is simming higher in Dungeon Slice than any other talent combo I can make that uses Replicating Shadows---- is the sim wrong? I feel like replicating shadow while the tank is gathering has to be better.

[tight monolith]

worst case if you desperate and got some in your pockets buy a champ finger from ah💰

[flint steppe]

Its actually simming higher than any talent build ive simmed in Patchwerk and Dungeon slice, and thats why im suspicious

[tight monolith]

but delves are nice, free and peak content so hope you get it there🫡

[limpid sage]

ya I've thought about buying the entropy thingy

myth track ring is dropping next week right?

[tight monolith]

myth track should drop now on ah but prob costs close to gold cap

[limpid sage]

ahhhh true it's already been weekly reset

[tight monolith]

not gold cap quite but yeah...

[limpid sage]

jesus christ

:)

what does hc version cost now

[tight monolith]

I dont have those funds at least!

[limpid sage]

must've been devalued

[tight monolith]

you can get mastery vers hc for 500 k

[limpid sage]

what's the site you're using for this

[tight monolith]

dont know what the rules are exact with links and stuff but just search "wowpay2win" in google and its a boe site basically to get an overview

[limpid sage]

ah sick

[tight monolith]

nothing sussy but yeah not taking any chances

[fossil forge]

Are we rocking with finality this szn

[flat wyvern]

!enchant

[summer quartz]

Hey guys quick question about gear, after how many mythic loomithar and nexus king kills without a single dagger drop does it become optimal to simply uninstall the game? thx

[flint steppe]

CUQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAM2mBAAAAAgZhxy0YmlxYmZMMMzMGGz2sMjZ22mZGzMzYwYZ2GAAAAmBDgxsZYgBmFtQL2gB build is simming higher than any builds I can find/make for Patchwerk and Dungeon Slice both---- any real people with advice on why the sim might be wrong? I personally have a hard time believing that a build without rupture dulicate is best for M+

[flat wyvern]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[limpid sage]

ask mr robot

[summer quartz]

rami malek ghosted me last time i asked him about wow

[limpid sage]

then I'm afraid you're at a dead end

[limpid sage]

what's the little creature in your pfp btw I recognize it from somewhere

or maybe I'm mixing it up

[summer quartz]

that little creature is n'zoth

specifically the corruption icon

[limpid sage]

ok so I mixed it up

[flint steppe]

Feel like I'm spamming with questions almsot sorry, but just refining it to a simpler question--- do you think the Dungeon Slice sim might undervalue Replicating Shadows (rupture duplicate)? Or is it just not a good talent for M+ for Trickster Rogue?

[haughty mural]

Afaik dslice is for gear not talents

[olive jacinth]

Would I ever pick Hero Ritual Forge from vault when I already have Hero Prism? Currently i am Assa but i think about switching to Sub

[candid raven]

!coup

[wicked jolt]

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

• **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
• Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades or with 4+ targets, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
• Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.

[flint steppe]

On Coup De Grace, a youtube guide said that the tooltip is bugged and it's the first cast not the second that gets the 150% buff, is this accurate or no?

[candid raven]

Oh, so it's only during blades/aoe and only for the second. I thought you'd want to always do it and even before the first one. That makes life so much easier.

[vale pine]

the combo is rly strong on last 2 of the raid

outside of them tho

[untold bone]

in m+ is it worth holding prism for every other shadow blades if my other trinket is a passive for example antenna?

[alpine wraith]

use prism with blades

not dance

[untold bone]

yes i mean with blades

[fair cloak]

What class objectivly is the most broken in high end raiding

[hollow spear]

Forge only sims slightly worse than antenna for me

[fair cloak]

When u 95th+ parser

[hollow spear]

And based on my results, antenna is crazy rng

[maiden oar]

the orbs can be really funny sometimes

[hollow spear]

Idk, check wcl

Just know that fotm rerolling might end up with your new class getting nerfed before you even have the gear to parse

[hollow spear]

I feel like they don't get picked up sometimes even when standing right on top of them

Maybe that's just a display issue tho

[maiden oar]

sometimes it takes a second

but it could be display yea i would need to vod review to know

[vale pine]

very pull dependent

if you can get max stacks to a gigant pull, probably worth

most of the time its probably better to just use with blades

[hollow spear]

Sometimes you send flag on a small pack to not hold eternally

There I usually save my prism

[vale pine]

yes

you usually don't want to delay cooldowns for long

thats general cooldown management

but e.g. you can skip to use prism one time during flag

to have it for your next flag use

espeically if it lines up well with a gigantic pull

there is just a certain dynamic and flexibility

[vale kernel]

!gear

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1406266615619784765/suble.webp

[chrome palm]

For strictly prio damage on titans for nexus king platforms, could using one black powder as the first finisher in dance be a gain?

[haughty mural]

Just slam evis

If you need the prio

(If you are referring to DM stacks)

[glad rampart]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[coral hamlet]

on first pull gambit should i use evis or black powder as spender?

[shadow lance]

BP

[junior lintel]

Got the worst vault ever, however idk if Soleah trinket is worth anything for sub/assa on myth track?

[shadow lance]

It's an ok passive trink

[vale pine]

its okay

[junior lintel]

Alright, cuz its either that or a crit/haste ring or socket

i guess ara trinket is bad for m+ so i wont go with it if thats the case

[coral hamlet]

ahh oke, so even the coup proc, i still using the bp?

[short radish]

no you use coup proc

alawys use coup proc

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[short radish]

yes but what about backstabbing out of dance

[karmic harbor]

You only need to use storm inbetween coup casts right? E.g. if I go into dance with coup up, I don't need to use storm as a builder unless its between coup?

[coral hamlet]

what is better thistle tea or cold blood talent right now?

[vale pine]

on single target

can also backstab if flawless form drops

but outside of that, why would you?

[short radish]

what about in aoe

[vale pine]

backstab in dance becomes fairly irrelevant with more targets

[short radish]

is there a threshold where fishing for unseen blade procs

isnt worth

[vale pine]

so you don't need to

[short radish]

ez

[limpid sage]

didn't know 1000 cuts had haste scaling

[short radish]

is this the secret haste build?

[limpid sage]

new PI target?

[vale pine]

XD

[vale pine]

true

just use the build i linked the other day

skipping almost all good nodes

[short radish]

have you seen my open world death stalker build yet?

[slate marlin]

That was cursed

[short radish]

dude

it's acutally good

i know it's a meme

[slate marlin]

I meant the fuu one

[short radish]

oh

[short radish]

okay i gotta see this one

holy cursed

gloomblade my beloved

[upbeat sorrel]

Bout to join a weekly no leaver key with that build

[limpid sage]

reported for terrorism

[vale pine]

good luck

[marble sail]

Meta??

[vale pine]

flagellation is like 20% dps

no blades and no secret

also only one charge of dance

[short radish]

that's even worse than my build

[vale pine]

thats not too bad

it uses blades

secret

[short radish]

yeah!

and pvp is enabled

so its like 50% uptime of either blades

or lingering shadows

w/e the buff is called

[upbeat sorrel]

gloomblade will carry

[short radish]

i couldnt justify GB in this build though

since im taking subterfuge

[limpid sage]

never thought about making an openworld build

actually a good idea

[short radish]

try it out

because dance is overkill for open world

[limpid sage]

what about the silent storm thingy

[short radish]

this one takes down one mob at a time

[marble sail]

I wish gloomblade was better is so cool

[short radish]

stealth go next

because you have DN

[limpid sage]

deez nuts

[short radish]

but yeah 3mill damage on first 2 globals every time

mobs have like 5mill hp

[limpid sage]

the thing about trickster open world

is that it fkn sucks when you don't get cape + ub procs

perma backstab soup

[short radish]

see

[vale pine]

think the above goes well with the "utility overload" general tree build

[short radish]

thats why this build exists

[marble sail]

[short radish]

all the stuff in trickster is pointless for open world content

[marble sail]

Augmentation rogue

[short radish]

[alpine wraith]

we miss mfd

so good for open world

strike evis evis good times

[short radish]

it never left, it just got watered down in deathstalker

[vale pine]

trickster has some good open world traits

[short radish]

we hated DS for too long

[alpine wraith]

yea like the shroud cdr reduction

[short radish]

and failed to see what it could provide

[vale pine]

reduced cooldowns

[limpid sage]

this is what builds would look like in wow if we didn't have sims and the monster hunter community would migrate

full comfort build

[vale pine]

idk

i think most people would go dps still

nimble flurry is like the best casual content talent

[limpid sage]

ye it's baller

bubbling wax is also goated for open world

[marble sail]

I love nimble

[limpid sage]

shadowstrike into ub+cape+bubbling wax proc feels like playing mantle rogue

[spare quiver]

i feel like i do more dmg doing eviscerate than bp

[merry trout]

yo! BiS trinkets for M+? a bit lost watching info on guides

[marble sail]

araz and netherprism

[vale pine]

you sure you keep using evis for coup in aoe?

[topaz venture]

guys why does the 1 hour tricks sometimes not work

its confusing

[vagrant thorn]

like in what situation? seems to always work for me

it's funny in keys when everyone dies except you and then suddenly the whole pack starts running towards where the tank respawned lol

[glacial stag]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WAs's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker
• :skull: Find Weakness target tracker

[glacial stag]

guys do you know if there is a pack where a flawless form tracker is implemented plz?

Specific WAs i find on wago arent working for some reason

[spring elm]

so mastery sims as one of my worst stats now guessing because I have so much

[topaz venture]

if ur in dr then other stats might be better yes

[abstract oar]

Stat weights stinky go top gear

[topaz venture]

trust the sims

[spring elm]

Idk the breakpoint but I have a 723 Lilly so. Wonder if its worth changing my enchants and reshii wraps

[fossil forge]

Mounting resets it

[rocky ocean]

It does not

[karmic harbor]

Many people are saying this

I gotta start logging my m+ runs

[gusty schooner]

Unyielding Netherprism champion version or mythic t pants? currently on only 1 tier piece at 689 ilvl, sims suggest trinket, what you guys think

[vale pine]

!aoe

[wicked jolt]

• Always cast Coup de Grace when it is ready, regardless of target count.
• Black powder instead of regular Eviscerate at 4 or more targets (there is no other secret rule).
• At ALL target counts use Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance, not Shuriken Storm.

[alpine wraith]

depends trink is kinda good but if you dont ever do mythic

[vale pine]

many people forget to use Coup in aoe

they just bp all the time

[alpine wraith]

you can eventually get prism from pugging n or hc

[vale pine]

which is the biggest diffrence

[alpine wraith]

but not pants

[topaz venture]

U know m+ logs give you a ranking, what does that mean?

[tribal blade]

you can hold coup if a pack is about to die and you're gonna go into a new pack with flag

but other than that don't hold yeah

[mystic cloak]

Question about trinkets, is Forge + Prism best combo and if yes how do you use it? Rotate each one with blades (with 2nd usage being half stacked prism or?)

[upbeat escarp]

Any tips for araz? Doing the fight first time on the reclear

[tribal blade]

not with my massive WA that screams coup is ready in your face 😉

[topaz venture]

makes sense

2nd blades is stacked prism

lining with dmg amp

[slate marlin]

I know coup is ready bc if my wa says "soon" and i dont proc it after 3 ss i die inside

[fossil forge]

I am sure when tanks mounts u need to apply tricks again

[karmic harbor]

No?

[fossil forge]

I stg i always die to aggro after tank mounts ?

[slate marlin]

Tricks has a delay

u cant go into a pack before tsnk and expect to not die

[karmic harbor]

Well you can just pop evasion

[tribal blade]

it's a classic sub rogue thing, you strike into a pack right as the tank is pulling

[slate marlin]

tricks is so you dont have to hold shit until tsnk has gathered all

[tribal blade]

you get insta aggro and get 1 shot

tricks can't help you there

[slate marlin]

Happened to me in 1st pull hoa, tank forgot to aggro the shard 😄

he got the casters and just stood there

[void ocean]

is there a more annoying thing than a 7th ShT proc while Coup is doing its hits

[karmic harbor]

Should be dotting adds on the run for first pull I think

[fossil forge]

However pressing tricky between each pull is muscle memory now

[tribal blade]

yeah you have to be SUPER careful to only strike something the tank has established threat with

[slate marlin]

Yep

[tribal blade]

happened to me today in a DB, i thought the tank had aggro already but apparently not

got 1 shot

was crying

[slate marlin]

but on some pulls its just mechanized

Like i know 1st pull floodgate i have to wait a bit

But hoa? Tanks just aggro the 1st 5 mobs and go str8 to shard

[tribal blade]

1st pull flood you can just open up on the small mobs that get dragged into the big guy

[slate marlin]

Why am i waiting

[fossil forge]

Do u guys flag the first mobs in flood

Or just me

[slate marlin]

I just sap spider, tricks, and rupture

[tribal blade]

no

flag once the pull is gathered

not during gather

[slate marlin]

You desync by a lot doing thst

[fossil forge]

10s max

[tribal blade]

yeah you either desync or you send your first sectec into like 2-3 mobs

[tribal blade]

that sounds like a lot

[slate marlin]

just storm and rupture until shreddinator is gathered

[fossil forge]

Gives me the 10 seconds for next cds to build shadowcraft

[slate marlin]

10s is a lot

[tribal blade]

trust it's better to just spread ruptures during gather

[slate marlin]

100%

[fossil forge]

Ig

[slate marlin]

i did that a couple dungeons, flag into ruptures into cds

when u have flag up and have to hold it for 5-10 seconds...yikes

[tribal blade]

i tried it too, i hate doing it

it feels horrible

[slate marlin]

Yep

[tribal blade]

if you desync and need to hold for 10 secs because the next fight is a boss w/o any adds

10s is enough to completely derail your cd timings on a boss fight

[slate marlin]

Its awful yeah

[limpid sage]

4 seconds max

[slate marlin]

floodgate is a very fun sub dungeon

[limpid sage]

or you lose flag overlapping with your shadow dance

8 seconds without tfd ig

[slate marlin]

Big momma big pull, with pot, 18 prism stacks...

50-60M dps brrrr

[tribal blade]

yeah sub is fun on big momma

[fossil forge]

my peak on momma was 55

[slate marlin]

Mine was 53

[tribal blade]

but honestly it can't quite compare to sin on big momma ngl

[slate marlin]

But got depleted

[tribal blade]

sin's dmg profile is perfect for big momma

[limpid sage]

halkias feels great as well

[slate marlin]

frost dk using cds on amp rsther than adds

[fossil forge]

Send 2nd boss in sub into swap into assa combo

[limpid sage]

anyone know if dungeonslice has mobs with different hp counts?

[slate marlin]

Wdym, u swap to assa after momma?

[limpid sage]

like a prio target in a pack of small adds and stuff like that

[fossil forge]

idk i always go momma second wym

[slate marlin]

Ye everyone does that

[fossil forge]

Oh i read the message i sent

Sub first boss into swap ya get me twin

[slate marlin]

Thats weird

Assa is very strong in momma too

[fossil forge]

People are doing it in streets and it was done in rookery last season

[tribal blade]

sin is prob stronger on big momma than sub

[slate marlin]

Ye

of anything u do 2 bosses as assa

and swap to sub before 3rd boss

[tribal blade]

DS is an insanely good hero tree for big momma

[winter elbow]

!embellishment

[slate marlin]

even better with bugfixes

[limpid sage]

is it worth the downtime of running out -> swapping talents -> running back though?

I guess you could use the dungeon tp to go out

[tribal blade]

on high enough keys yes depending on the dungeon

[limpid sage]

but idk if you can do that mid dungeon

[tribal blade]

i timed 19 rooks last season doing that

[limpid sage]

never had the need to do that xd

[slate marlin]

Vanish and portal mid kelp pull

[tribal blade]

i would do first half as sin, then hearth out and swap to sub for last boss

[slate marlin]

u get time bc of the roleplay

[fossil forge]

There is no downtime If you queue with a lock

[tribal blade]

it's definitely worth doing sometimes

[slate marlin]

there is no downtime if u just play sub all dungeon

fg has a very good 90 second timer

[limpid sage]

what's bis comp for sub btw

[fossil forge]

Phys no?

[limpid sage]

prot-rsham-havoc-fdk?

[tribal blade]

the tech for playing sin then hearthing to play sub was so strong in rookery i was beating the other 2 dps even though i was afk an entire pull while swapping

[slate marlin]

Iirc monk buff is bigger than shaman in dslice

[limpid sage]

or feral instead of havoc maybe

[limpid sage]

surely it's bugged then

[fossil forge]

Brew war feral sham lowkey cooking

[slate marlin]

Sham buff is 3.2%

Monk should be like 3.5 or around that?

But obv chances of shaman in party>>>>chances of monk in psrty

wsrrior is bigger buff

[tribal blade]

i thought monk buff would be more like 2.5

[limpid sage]

ye same

[slate marlin]

Huy rly?

[fleet wharf]

!fuu

[tribal blade]

i dunno how much phys dmg we do

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fossil forge]

just get brew duo and problem fixed

[tribal blade]

i assumed 50/50

[fossil forge]

its 5050 phys and shadow no?

[limpid sage]

maybe nimble just accounts for that much more phys dmg

[tribal blade]

between phys and shadow

[slate marlin]

I think i do more phys

[tribal blade]

oh nimble is phys true

and we're doing a metric fuckton of nimble dmg now

[fleet wharf]

Didn't fuu's sheet have the value of raidbuffs before?

[limpid sage]

nimble should be full shadow dmg during shadow blades

[slate marlin]

all dmg should be shadow during cds

[limpid sage]

true actually

[slate marlin]

i wish they leaned more in the shadow psrt of sub

[limpid sage]

first step towards removing find weakness

[fossil forge]

Remove bp make sub great again

[slate marlin]

Finish the sub rework

[fossil forge]

Surely after midnight it comes

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[slate marlin]

Sub got some work this patch

I appreciate it

[tribal blade]

ok i'm looking at a log of a DB i did today

[fossil forge]

It way pretty doodoo last szn

Was

[graceful osprey]

12.0 for sure surely

[tribal blade]

but cba to count up the phys vs shadow dmg %s

[slate marlin]

I guess its 60/40

[fossil forge]

It could be more actually nimble flurry is like insane dmg rn

[limpid sage]

I think it was like 34% phys on fractillus

someone said yesterday

[cosmic dust]

Kush said like 70-80% phys in m+

[fossil forge]

Kush the goat

[limpid sage]

nvm I swapped the numbers around

so ye 70-80% in aoe sounds right

[slate marlin]

i was right then

[tribal blade]

67.88% phys dmg from the DB i did

and DB is a nimble heavy dungeon

not many BP casts

[fleet wharf]

speaking of m+ how do you guys feel about priory as sub? a friend was telling me maybe I should go assa on that dungeon

[slate marlin]

Yeah

so monk>shaman buff then

[limpid sage]

footman pulls break my mental

[tribal blade]

i still think skyfury is better tbh

spec plays smoother with it

[slate marlin]

Yep

[tribal blade]

my mental is better 😉

[haughty mural]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[limpid sage]

but besides that I think sub is good on priory

[slate marlin]

but numbers are numbers

[fleet wharf]

I fucked up one cd with poor prism usage, but yea, I felt I could pad up so much damage as assa there

[honest void]

Sky fury auto attack is like crack you can't live without

[tribal blade]

sub is good in every dungeon atm

there's not really any instances where i'm wishing i was sin

[slate marlin]

Im only playing sub rn

every dungeon

[limpid sage]

me too

but that's because I haven't learned to play sin

[slate marlin]

Im scared its like last season

[fleet wharf]

yea, likewise, was trying to figure out what I can do better on priory though

[limpid sage]

and I can't be bothered

[slate marlin]

sub strong 1st month

[tribal blade]

whereas when i'm playing sin there's so many times i'm wishing i could end it all because of DS and IC

[slate marlin]

into its dogshit go play assa

[tribal blade]

might happen honestly

[fleet wharf]

surely we'll be getting ST buffs cope

[slate marlin]

i hope for evis buffs

[fleet wharf]

prolly evisc buffs, slight tuning on flurry to compensate

[haughty mural]

They can’t

[fleet wharf]

well that's my dream anyway

[tribal blade]

it seems like sub is holding strong better than last season though

[haughty mural]

They can’t buff evis like that without downing nimble like crazy

[tribal blade]

last season sub started to fall very quickly

[slate marlin]

We already bp at 4 targets

[keen dome]

Pacemaker doesn't exist

[tribal blade]

ideally yeah

[keen dome]

I've decided this

[limpid sage]

couldn't they just remove like 5% off nimble and give 15% evis

[lilac stag]

There was a mythic one in my vault

[slate marlin]

i want spec to be more intuitibe

8 targets? evis

more? bp

[honest void]

Well if the sin bugs get fixed it's likely

[haughty mural]

I also had a mythic pacemaker in vault which i didn’t take

[honest void]

Can still play both mind you

[lilac stag]

How much more intuitive do you need? Wtf

[tribal blade]

i agree they should tune nimble and BP together so it's always nimble at 7-8 targets

[keen dome]

can i have it

actually no I don't want it i want antenna

[lilac stag]

Big hitters, BP then evis. Not hard at all.

[fleet wharf]

aren't you still running pugs?

[slate marlin]

tye bp at 4 targets when nimble is 7 is not intuitive

[limpid sage]

I honestly wouldn't mind if nimble got capped at 5 targets if we got compensated with ST/low target cleave

[slate marlin]

why does it say cb+sectech in shadowblades rather thab 2nd sectec?

[haughty mural]

You can still lean into nimble with more than 4 targets

[limpid sage]

BP on 6 and above would feel good

[haughty mural]

Pog

[fleet wharf]

wait, I know Sectech was is capped at 5, but what other things are capped at 8?

[vale pine]

probably for simplicity

[limpid sage]

nimble and bp

[honest void]

Soft-capped*

[fleet wharf]

yea, that'd be a cool solution tbh

[keen dome]

Ye, I've run one every week this season

Antenna hasn't dropped for two weeks lmao

[lilac stag]

You all out here trying to make it sound like aoe is some rocket science and want to go back to

[fleet wharf]

rip

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[lavish acorn]

hey, do you guys have something as log review?

[keen dome]

And the time it did drop someone won it and then never equipped it. It's how it goes

[fleet wharf]

try !log

[lavish acorn]

!log

[keen dome]

I'm doing 2/8M now though so I'm just waiting for vault

[fleet wharf]

surely you'll get it in vault

[limpid sage]

I mean it's not intuitive for new players to use BP instead of Evis on less than 8 targets because of Nimble

[slate marlin]

Sub aoe is simple, i just want evis to be stronger than bp in low target cleave

[lilac stag]

I left it. Took normal tier to get 4pc.

[honest void]

It's not too bad since ur shadowstriking all thr time in cds

So it's not like ur not using nimble

[haughty mural]

*in dance

Fixed it

[honest void]

BP just hits like a truck

[keen trellis]

Hello, just curious whether anyone knows what changed so we BP at 4+ (before it was 3 with FW) and Storm at 2+ Targets (before was with Flawless Form and 3+ Targets iirc)?

[lilac stag]

Only because people try to define the words cleave and aoe and whatever else. If you only look at numeric target count it’s crystal clear.

[keen dome]

damn, but 4pc big

[lilac stag]

Spec has way more confusion to it than “cleave/aoe” for people new to it

[lavish acorn]

thanks

[slate marlin]

the only hard thing about sub is correctly pooling sod dance for shadowblades windows

[limpid sage]

That's only because guides exist - I'm just advocating for it to be more intuitive through reading the abilities/passives alone

[lilac stag]

You can still press your precious evicerate in 8 targets if you want “prio”

[slate marlin]

and the managing of that is insanely fun imo

[torpid snow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g15dsky5xLedYks27xYdkw Isn't this SimTrap? How does a 2-minute CD trinket feel in M+? Should I still run it anyway

[alpine wraith]

what is that madness

[keen dome]

Patchwerk 5 1:30

[torpid snow]

Why is every Sub Rogue running Unyielding Netherprism + Ara's Ritual, but when I sim it, the results look weak for me?

[keen dome]

What, don't do that

[rocky ocean]

Yogg saron

[keen dome]

THat's not a realistic fight setup, that's not useful sim data

[alpine wraith]

forge and prism are just good trinks that perform well together

[lilac stag]

Having choices of what to press vs 100% only press x or press z is just dumbing down the player decision making process.

You literally can choose evis at 8 or BP at 8. It’s giving you power to do what you think is situationally best.

Sub isn’t a 2 button spec nor should it be.

[void ocean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVd2wrGsm7w

hmm

[rocky ocean]

Havocs best trinket

[honest void]

It's the passive dmg part anyway

[keen dome]

Look, DH's have to be the center of the universe

[torpid snow]

How exactly should I sim?

[honest void]

Ur still using it

[limpid sage]

That wouldn't change if you leaned more into evis over bp though

[keen dome]

Just use a basic Patchwerk sim for a raid encounter, or Dungeonslice

[limpid sage]

would just change the number of targets you press one ability over the other

[keen dome]

What fight is 5 raid bosses doing nothing for 1:30? You need to be asking sensible questions to the sim to get sensible answers.

[limpid sage]

in terms of optimal rotation

[haughty mural]

[rocky ocean]

First pull in dawnbreaker

[bleak night]

simming double on use for a single 1:30 pull and then asking why it isnt simming well is certainly a choice

[honest void]

Also the sim wouldn't account for your 2nd cd where u actually use prism

[torpid snow]

I want to find a trinket for m+, not raid

[honest void]

Just dslice

[torpid snow]

how should I simulate for how many minutes?

[bleak night]

like said above, dslice is good

[haughty mural]

Use dslice

[haughty mural]

[bleak night]

or if you absolutely want to sim patchwerk for whatever reason dont use a timer that shows you getting a single cd use on it and wonder why the trinket combo that works well over multiple uses of cds does poorly

[limpid sage]

I don't understand? xd

[severe prism]

is this wrong ?
considering spending at 7cp sectech is reduced by :

• 7s for a classic finisher
• 12s for a coup finisher
• +1s for a supercharged finisher

dance is reduced by half that amount

[haughty mural]

Yeah i dont get your point at this point

[torpid snow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8Ciy1PZdcG4xmArF4P5qEs Is this the most accurate result?

[limpid sage]

idk maybe I didn't explain it very well. I just think it'd be nice to get more power in Evis over BP... just feels better to press on lower target counts imo

and I want what feels good to be optimal as well

[haughty mural]

And as scath said

[alpine wraith]

you want around 5 mins of duration so it does a good spread of 4 mins to 6 mins

[keen dome]

Yeah

[haughty mural]

You can still press Evis on more than 4

[limpid sage]

.

[keen dome]

You want to simulate a slice of content. Just doing 1:30 isn't.. really helpful in getting a picture.

[haughty mural]

I give up

[keen dome]

And boy howdy do I sometimes

[lilac stag]

What are you going on about? Are you just hurt because 4T makes you make a decision instead of 5 or 6?

FW was/is the stupidity

Everything else at this point is just a magical number

[keen dome]

Your a magical number

[limpid sage]

I just want our dmg profile leaning more towards ST/low cleave

[keen dome]

(I don't know what that means)

[haughty mural]

Not optimal bro

[lilac stag]

I am a unicorn shitting rainbows sir. Not a number.

[keen dome]

nice

[haughty mural]

No you

[limpid sage]

why're we pressed over a preference xd

[lilac stag]

You’re using the guise of it being confusing is the issue

[keen dome]

Sometimes I just forget to do the proper rotation on AoE and fall back into muscle memory of SS -> BP lol

[lilac stag]

When it’s clear and well defined

[haughty mural]

That’s based

[lilac stag]

Target count with FW was confusing.

That’s gone.

[limpid sage]

yeah I'm not gonna keep arguing over it, but there's a reason people keep coming in confused about why we BP on less than 8 targets with Nimble running

I know why we press BP on 4+ targets, it's just not intuitive through design

[keen dome]

I don't think it's that confusing: BP got buffed. So now it's just better with more mobs to hit.

It is just numerically better (outside of prio I guess) to hit 5+ targets with BP instead of Evis because number betterer

[haughty mural]

But

You can still hit evis if the Situations demands it Pog

It’s not black&white

[limpid sage]

that's not what's being talked about though

[tribal blade]

they should tie nimble+BP tuning together so it's always numerically better to press evis on 7-8 targets

that's my vote

[limpid sage]

this is the point ^

[haughty mural]

You make it sound like you aren’t allowed to nimble

[rocky ocean]

Buff bp

[keen dome]

I agree with Prophet

But I also agree with Sataman because chaos reigns

[haughty mural]

I agree with prophet aswell

[bleak night]

BP in st

[lilac stag]

Buff BP

[limpid sage]

ok am I just challenged then

that was my point the entire time xd

[bleak night]

[lilac stag]

[bleak night]

Maybe they just like prophet more than you

[haughty mural]

[tribal blade]

HAAH

damn

[keen dome]

To be fair I missed the start of this and just decided to post

[rocky ocean]

Black powda

[lilac stag]

prophet gets no votes. He jumps to assa as soon as there’s a hint it’s better in keys

[rocky ocean]

[keen dome]

The CRIMINAL

[tribal blade]

this is also true

well true for 1 season 😉

[haughty mural]

./votekick Prophet then

[lilac stag]

[tribal blade]

i did feel quite dirty

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/to-be-fair-letter-kenny-gif-2070311052434415886

[tribal blade]

i got a lot of people being like "you're not playing sub???"

when you 1 trick sub that long pugging title you get a ruputation for it haha

[keen dome]

hell yeah

[tribal blade]

worst time was S3 DF

the amount of "you should try playing outlaw" i got

[keen dome]

I've had a few talks directly ask me this season "hey sorry if my pulling is bad" or "do you need restealths"

[tribal blade]

was a LOT

[keen dome]

and I like going "i'm Sub man I don't care"

the restealth stuff has broken some poor tanks brains

[karmic harbor]

Remove BP

[limpid sage]

ye restealth question is every time

[tribal blade]

yeah a tanked asked me this recently too

[lilac stag]

Yes I need them for TFD thank you

[karmic harbor]

MAKE SUB GREAT AGAIN

[limpid sage]

because they see me hanging out in the background between chain pulls

[keen dome]

I just tell them if the Rogue is complaining about restealths their either bad or the tank is bad at properly chaining.

[tribal blade]

i said "well yes i do gain some dmg from getting a restealth, but it's not as big a deal as sin"

[limpid sage]

or pulls where mob is 3% left and he pulls next

[tribal blade]

pull away

[lilac stag]

So just don’t drag a single mob at 3% into the next pack.

[keen dome]

ye, that's most of it and that's just bad tanking

[balmy condor]

is there any recommended video guide for sub m+?

[limpid sage]

I'm not multiboxing

[keen dome]

The tank I push keys with will pull when the dangeorus mobs are dead and it's so good

[lilac stag]

That’s chain pulling bruh

[tribal blade]

the most infuriating thing for a sin

[lilac stag]

I wouldn’t know

[limpid sage]

based

[topaz venture]

i had a tank yesterday in chat

CAN I CHAIN

yes go

[limpid sage]

ALSO

when you send your cds with 18 prism stacks

[gusty schooner]

netherprism more for m+ or for raid?

[little shoal]

Can you elaborate a bit more?

[limpid sage]

thinking tank won't pull more because it's been 10 sec

[topaz venture]

both

[tribal blade]

as sub the depression is watching a tank pull a boss when TFD timer is at 5 seconds

despair

[haughty mural]

Yes

[limpid sage]

and he then pulls 2x the pack size after your burst

[haughty mural]

Happens quite often

[gusty schooner]

wouldd you guys take a champion prism over a mythic pants in vault?

[karmic harbor]

How am I meant to play without CD while pugging, whenever I die with 18 prism stacks I tilt off the face of the earth

[tribal blade]

TFD timer should be like 2-3 seconds or none for PVE

i dunno

[lilac stag]

Instead of this, what if they make Sectech 8 and leave BP as is.

https://tenor.com/view/nairaman-pg13-swag-paul-george-gif-22712659

[slate marlin]

you need to use 2 sod and 2 dances during shadowblades windows, so sometimes u have to hold sod and dance to have them ready

[keen dome]

I can do worse

[tribal blade]

i like it

[slate marlin]

Idk if pooling was rhe correct phrasing

[keen dome]

The tank in a pug having a fucked up route where they LOOK like they're going a way you know for CD timing and then veer itno the boss suddenly

[limpid sage]

both

[lilac stag]

Back to BP at 4

[tribal blade]

honestly a fix is using prism with every blades

[little shoal]

Understood, I usually play sin and was super confused on sub "pooling" but you're not talking about energy lmao.

[slate marlin]

No not energy

charges

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/krill-issue-skill-issue-krill-issue-gif-25572478

[slate steeple]

Hi guys im strugling rn i have ecodome trinket 710 and champ prism should i get the flood gate trinket instead of the eco one ?

[tribal blade]

i think the only time you need to pool energy as sub atm is if you send a dry dance w/o symbols to avoid overcapping

i've tried sending a dry dance w/o pooling and it's really bad

[lilac stag]

Technically the 10 before flag is pooling. Just not how it’s typically associated.

[little shoal]

Is it a huge loss to macros Dance and SOD?

[limpid sage]

play cheat death in pugs

[tribal blade]

kinda yeah

[tribal blade]

yes it's bad

[limpid sage]

healers will actively ignore you if you play elusiveness and know when to feint in lower keys

[tribal blade]

if you macro the 2 together you either have to delay 2nd dance in cds to wait on sectec or you don't supercharge sectec

either or, both are bad

[keen dome]

Has anybody else found groups (Around the weekly to 12 level) struggling with Kelpfist's trash

[little shoal]

Now that you mention that, I noticed that i was waiting 1-2 finishers before going into second dance.

[slate marlin]

Its not only me then, i thought i was not using sd with sod sometimes lmfso

[tribal blade]

yeah that lost blades time means you have less of your 2nd dance in blades

[little shoal]

I was under the impression you just sent SOD with every dance and macroed them.