#subtlety

1 messages · Page 500 of 1

wicked joltBOT
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Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
still quartz
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!up

red lion
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!macro

wicked joltBOT
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Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

floral solstice
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ur prolly running rcloot council if /rc brings up a menu in the chat. and if /combatlog doesnt do anything make sure ur have advance combat logging enabled in settings under network

proper latch
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Is Lily + Prism combination supported by the sims?

vagrant thorn
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guys type more please I have 1 hour left at work and nothing to do I need subtlety content to engage with

vagrant thorn
proper latch
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Yeah, same shit

fallow anvil
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Hey guys, probably a dumb question, but when in a non cooldown Shadow Dance and you land on 5cp after a shadow strike, do you SS again or send the finisher? Its always send on 6+ right?

karmic harbor
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but do i really want to play double on use...

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i'd need 2 more buttons to press for the trinkets

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instead of them just being macrod to blade

shadow lance
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I play the spec at correct level

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And I never know what I should do

hollow spear
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SS again

fierce minnow
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i seem to never remember this... does FW buff nimble flurry damage on offtargets?

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or does nimble flurry spread the higher base damage from the main target and FW on offtargets doesnt do anything

shadow lance
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If it works like spatter, the FW on the main target doesn't buff damages on other targets

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So each target needs to have FW to receive more NF damages

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That's my understanding of the interaction

hallow night
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Anyone run into an issue with the shadow craft weak aura where boss voice lines over write the sound effect so it doesn’t go through?

fierce minnow
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weird numbers, considering nimble is supposed to be 60% but whatever

robust dust
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Hey. I struggle to fit 2 sec techs in my first dance window (10sec). Any advice?

hallow night
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You usually can’t

fierce minnow
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pool more ShT

hallow night
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Unless you farm a ton of shadow techniques

shadow lance
fierce minnow
robust dust
hallow night
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You can go afk about 10s before cds to try and get to over 10 shadow techniques

fierce minnow
shadow lance
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So I don't get

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Soz

hazy breach
hazy breach
shadow lance
wicked joltBOT
#

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
shadow lance
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But with Skyfury, you can proc your second sectech in first dance

vagrant thorn
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what % dps gain is stopping finishers <10 secs? 😛

shadow lance
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Relevant enough to be put in a !command

arctic heart
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my first key playing sub, going with my guts and memory from shadowlands, what is REALLY wrong, please?

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black power cannot be first damage right?

hallow night
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What key level?

arctic heart
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10

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priory

hallow night
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Was your group aoe dps compete ass?

arctic heart
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bm and demonology

hallow night
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In very high keys the break down is usually nimble flurry and bp do equal damage

hazy breach
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Too much storm

hallow night
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I mean like 16s

arctic heart
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too much storm, got it

shadow lance
hallow night
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In 10s bp should be like 4 or 5

arctic heart
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got it

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thank you man!

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lets go again haha

shadow lance
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Why my BP so low? Da fck

hallow night
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Mobs aren’t living long enough

shadow lance
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It was Street

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Got the answer

hallow night
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Imo don’t play sub every key

proper stone
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quick Q, is it better to evisc or BP on Soul HUnters?

shadow lance
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Evisc the one with most hp

proper stone
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thought so tyvm:D

shadow lance
crystal bone
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cooked opinion Cooking

slow gorge
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Is their something to must know in sub?

crystal bone
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sub gigablasting all keys

shadow lance
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Yeah, sub is legit the best rogue spec atm

hallow night
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Unless you have a dk in floodgate

shadow lance
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I agree to disagree

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I do way more overall as sub than assa in both keys

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And at least, I'm not dependant of the tank pulling adds on boss each time

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And getting my funnel exploded by pug

hallow night
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I only look at the highest key levels which causes bias

crystal bone
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tank says ill pull some extra for boss funnel
ele sham neuron activated
gigablast ascendance chain lightnings

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no more funnel

hallow night
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I’m going to post that in the ele discord so they can write a wall of text about how you’re the asshole and they are the victim and powerless to the situation

shadow lance
crystal bone
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its not just ele shamans

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its all pugs that crave the overall

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that is why funnel is overrated for most people

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in the top .1% u get people like zac that turn off blade flurry for zeross' funneling

shadow lance
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Idk mate, I don't think you and I are doing relevant key enough to hard switch spec depedending the key

hallow night
crystal bone
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then u see funnel value

hallow night
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You can play it if you want there’s no problem, but you aren’t casual

shadow lance
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Did I say that?

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You're like "You should not play that"

hallow night
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I think we’ll see more sub as time goes on and people get more gear

lilac stag
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a lot of players will play assa unless they’re forced to play sub. Number bias in keys is whatever.

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All three specs are performing.

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Play whatever the fuck you want.

hallow night
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Yeah sub has way less players, I’m surprised because it’s pretty fun

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Just king of hard at times

lilac stag
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people like easy dps

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Assa is easy dps

hallow night
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I had to turn down my spell queue window to 200 to play it

lilac stag
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waits for the flood of assa rogues explaining how difficult the spec is

hallow night
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Because at 300 I was inputting incorrect globals on shadow craft refresh

lilac stag
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In all seriousness. Sub isn’t everyone’s jam and that’s fine.

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Not everyone enjoys the dopamine of popping off with 18 stacks of the prism in a key.

hallow night
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I keep running pig normals and keep getting unlucky every week

valid sundial
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Auprism

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Sorry

cunning mist
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I just like the burst window gameplay of sub 😄

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makes me feel like i'm doing work

loud tiger
errant ferry
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In m+ you think I should be running
My prism and ritual forge or is that just for raid?

queen kraken
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am i bad or can we not fit the 2nd cb st into first dance window with tfd?

untold imp
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!wa

karmic harbor
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if i flag a target, do i have to keep hitting it?

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or is any cp spent good enough

hallow night
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My pig normal strategy is to invite no strength or agility users and just don’t drop prism anyways.

swift tinsel
crystal bone
lilac stag
loud tiger
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with cold blood

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in wowhead it says tea

crystal bone
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tea is +1% in aoe, CB is +1% in st

lilac stag
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cb has more boss dmg. Vigor has more aoe. They’re within ~1% of each other.

crystal bone
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whatever u prefer

loud tiger
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an no finalty ?

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isnt it good for aoe situations ?

lilac stag
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Debatable that rotten is better for FW spread.

loud tiger
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i see

zealous flint
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Hey guys, is anyone willing to look at some raid logs for me from tonight, ive just picked up sub for first time in raid toniight and looking for pointers

lilac stag
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Our AOE is kinda jank with FW and mathing it out is interesting

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CN rogues are using rotten to spread FW in large pulls then pumping BP

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Others are using evicerate more, which should give a nod to finality

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Unless they changed up other talents on that row.

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Like PV or some shit.

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basically make it your own. Fuck playing tornado.

loud tiger
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sure

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ty dude

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and about the stats

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crit doesnt matter at all =

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?

lilac stag
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Huh?

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Just avoid haste. Toss on ilvl.

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use dslice for gems/enchants

loud tiger
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ye i dont have haste but lots of mastery and vers

queen kraken
fallow anvil
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use crit disc belt and stack mast vers for the most part, but always sim

queen kraken
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ye but the part about "There’s no reason not to run TFD" why say that 😂 i didnt even ask for that

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just wondered if its possible to get it done

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meaning no offense or anything

karmic harbor
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brooooo

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i totally forgot about tfd in keys omegalul

lilac stag
crystal bone
lilac stag
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not running TFD is cringe

crystal bone
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and some luck

lilac stag
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When you look at the power shift of the competing talents.

crystal bone
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its also possible to get a 3rd sectec inside flag

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giga luck

mighty citrus
queen kraken
queen kraken
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idk

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but i dont dislike tfd

heavy moat
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It's cause technically tfd is less dps after 5min I believe so it's more dmg to run WM if I'm not mistaken. I'd assume the gain isn't much

hazy breach
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Both of them are insanely weak and mostly picked for pathing to inev

lilac stag
hazy breach
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WM is effectively +15% dmg to backstab and shadowstrike

lilac stag
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Downtime and Storm Casts diminish WM value.

hazy breach
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So if you have a gander over your dps meter and find where those are, youll notice that its not a big increase

karmic harbor
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if i flag a target, do i have to keep hitting it?
or is any cp spent good enough

hazy breach
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You do not need to keep hitting

karmic harbor
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tyty

formal gull
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Guys i know is a bit dumb but here it is a priory 10 my recap seems good? i'm starting the spec! ty

lilac stag
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we have some real banger talent choices. antennaglorp kekdog

mighty citrus
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so with tfd i would try to fit in the second sectech in the first dance?

hazy breach
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Not specifically

mighty citrus
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or how would it be done properly

hazy breach
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You just sectech whenever its ready

formal gull
lilac stag
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as long as you’re not holding CDs that’s fine

mighty citrus
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okidoki

lilac stag
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If you’re doing that with a gathered pack and CDs (dance) is up, peepono

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there’s a couple you can spread ruptures while tank gathers

formal gull
lilac stag
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The higher keys you’ll rupture a bit more

tribal blade
formal gull
lilac stag
tribal blade
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play more conservatively with dance+symbols to make sure you can have enough for cds

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then learn how to be more aggressive with usage

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better safe than sorry

lilac stag
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I think you learn what not to do by being more aggressive with it, then throttle it back a bit when you realized you messed up

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You have to learn the CDR cadence

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and if you’re overholding you don’t know what you’re not using

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to each their own method to the learning madness. feelsloveman

tribal blade
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easiest rule to follow just stop sending everything 30 secs before cds come up 😉

lilac stag
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Of course, but as you see in here, that’s not easy. antennaglorp

solemn creek
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With tfd and some reset. Im able to send a symbol before the first dance end and send a 2nd sech tech in it

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But the timing is ruff

lilac stag
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Plus us weekly pushers have extra CDR this week.

solemn creek
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Like dance end really soon.. i wonder if my st shadow lose thw dance buff

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I would have to check damage log i guess

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Does st 3 damage snapshot?

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Like.. if i use with buff up. But buff ends before the shadow part does its delayed damage?

tribal blade
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it'll do it's dmg so long as you immediately press dance after the 1st one ends

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you want to dance back to back in cds with no delay

solemn creek
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Was just wondering if there could be a micro second where it miss

obsidian orchid
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!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

formal gull
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ok thx for the help boyz let's continue the training

tribal blade
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it doesn't snapshot, but yeah the clones hits will be empowered by your 2nd dance

solemn creek
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Sending it during first dance is the only way i can manage to triple st

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But ya.. this week in 10s... we are.. always in cd

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With tfd

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Its insane

lilac stag
tribal blade
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i didn't even know it's the cdr affix this week

lilac stag
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I know. You big 🍆

tribal blade
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at least with prism you don't get your trinket fucked haha

brave harbor
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!guide

wicked joltBOT
tribal blade
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so smol

lilac stag
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did you see the conversation about loom prog last night (for me)

tribal blade
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nah i didn't

solemn creek
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12 priory

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15 db

tribal blade
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BP will always be low in DB

solemn creek
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Our st are similar. Same for coup.. i have a bit more nimble. But u have very much more bp

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Well i have 600k more nimble. And 600 less bp

tribal blade
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he's choosing not to rupture as much

solemn creek
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Guess its similar

lilac stag
tribal blade
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something sub's good at lol

lilac stag
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once we started getting them down consistently

tribal blade
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as sin you do literally 0

solemn creek
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Playing forgeweaver.. and having your r.l say.. wtf is this amp damage

lilac stag
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I asked do you want me to swap to boss dmg? Answers sure… then checks dmg breakdown

solemn creek
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Feels great 😅

lilac stag
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range WTF

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lol

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Ended up as assa after break for execute dmg. We lusted p2 on kill

lilac stag
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Rik reverb range adds part two

lilac stag
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buff it more please.

narrow panther
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Is there like a subrogue guide for idiots anywhere?

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interested in trying it out

mighty citrus
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but as soon people got gear, i sucked 😄

narrow panther
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playing assa now, constantly dotting an needing restealths all the time is giving me aids

lilac stag
mighty citrus
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dont remember to be fair

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just copied stealthi

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back then

lilac stag
lilac stag
narrow panther
lilac stag
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So pick a guide and start there. I think wowhead maybe most noob friendly

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!guide

wicked joltBOT
lilac stag
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This is not a sit down and learn it in 15 minutes spec (for better or for worse)

narrow panther
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Ik it isnt was just asking for advice on where the best noob friendly guide was at 🙂

lilac stag
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all three are good

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See which resonated best with you and how you learn

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Information is basically the same, just presented slightly differently.

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The tldr for sub:

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!mistakes

wicked joltBOT
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Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

  • Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
  • Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
  • Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
  • If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
brave harbor
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So last time I played sub was in df and never even respeced to sub in tww. From what I understand the outside of dance SS/BP-Rup (Same as always). Inside dance try to get a cd in like Shadow blades/Flagellation. However, we instantly do SecTech with SoD and we do Shadowstrike to bp until coup de grace

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Am I missing anything?

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Also we do backstab as first danse macabre dont know why

lavish nebula
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!cbug

wicked joltBOT
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Cold Blood bug:
A common issue when switching between Assassination Fatebound and Subtlety is that Cold Blood stops working, this problem is solvable with the following step:

fallow anvil
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Just got Netherprism do you skip using it on pull to let it stack or just send on every Shadowblades?

hazy breach
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Both work

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Just depends on where you want the damage

fallow anvil
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true, cheers

alpine raft
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!wa

autumn pawn
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hello guys! there is a macro to use Backstab on the same bind as Dance, without pressing a second charge of Dance? please 😄

hazy breach
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!bs

wicked joltBOT
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Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

autumn pawn
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thanks my big goat

cyan mauve
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hi guys, I am going to craft my 2nd item but I am struggling to understand why bracer is the most recc? I was thinking of making a ring because mine aren't the best;

slate lantern
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Sim using droptimizer to see what is best for you, but there are multriple good rings in m+ this season so people are just farming those

broken stirrup
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i'm so bad at sub here but it's so fun

rocky ocean
narrow panther
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how much dmg are yall doing in your openers on aoe dummies?

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just trying to get a feel for how im doing 😂

obsidian orchid
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!craft

turbid bobcat
narrow panther
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kinda just winging it currently getting a feel for it

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after reading wowhead

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also dont really have much versa atm as im in my assa gear not sure if that makes much of a difference

hazy breach
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As long as you dont have tons of haste its fine

halcyon pendant
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!bug

wicked joltBOT
narrow panther
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😂

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so just want to clarify if im reading this correctly, After we use Coup, we use eviscerates over black power because of flawless form right untill we have no more stacks then revert too black powder?

hazy breach
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Flawless form stacks are not something you base any decisions on

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Sectech > Coup > BP at 4 or more > Evis

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is the priority for finishers

narrow panther
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just i read this figured it was based on flawless form

stuck linden
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

feral barn
#

Depends on the situation if there is a big prio target, but damagewise, you want to BP at 4+ target, try to have Find the Weakness on targets before

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FtW is easily applied if you play The Rotten, as you'll crit with an early shuriken storm in dance

hazy breach
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You dont want to storm in dance

narrow panther
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im guessing we just send shadow dance kinda on cd but make sure to have one up for cd realignments? the cd seems pretty short?

hazy breach
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Unless its to conserve your unseen blades (ie during 4p)

violet palm
hazy breach
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Sectech > Coup > BP at 4 or more > Evis

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Means that youll be using sectech, which means fazed is up

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The only time fazed is relevant is if you swap target to something that wasnt in range for your earlier sectech

violet palm
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I see. Good to know, thanks

acoustic matrix
golden harbor
hazy breach
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No

golden harbor
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Then how are you applying aoe find weakness

hazy breach
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You only storm in dance when you have coup/4p ready and dont want to waste your unseen blades

vale widget
#

After 2 days of nonstop, and it had to drop on the worst group I was part
Finally free peeporeallyhap

hazy breach
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Otherwise youll have fw up from storming before, or youll just tank not having it up

chrome fern
#

im assuming that's the lily

vale widget
#

Ye

chrome fern
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grats

hazy breach
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For example getting your 2 coups of in dance is more important than having fw up

vale widget
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Im really tired

acoustic matrix
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Lirio del tejido eterno

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that's italian ?

hazy breach
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And when you storm you dont progress your coup stacks

chrome fern
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tiempo, spanish no?

hazy breach
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(not to mention shadowstrike proccing the extra unseen blade hit from 2p does comparable damage to BP anyway)

vale widget
#

Spanish
Too lazy to set on english

feral barn
#

I would've imagined that trading a 100% FW on all targets is better than missing just 1 SS, for coup stacks

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Maybe this is imaginable during the long Shadow Dance after 6s out of combat

vast ibex
#

Changing from other spec to sub - Is there some important haste treshholds i do not want to go under, or is it wild west with it? 😄 current unbuffed stats:

hazy breach
vast ibex
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aight bet, so just some crit to versa and im gucci

vale widget
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Now I have to farm priory's ring garf_sit

vast ibex
#

this one? 😉

tulip gorge
#

you boys ready for some nerfs tonight LOLW

vale widget
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Ye garf

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And no

tulip gorge
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I already got people complaining sub is overpowered in m+

hazy breach
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I would be insanely surprised if they nerf sub

violet palm
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What nerfs? D:

golden harbor
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@hazy breach is it still bp at 4+ targets if you dont have fw on them

hazy breach
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Yes

tulip gorge
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maybe they nerf bp and buff eviscerate

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who knows

dire spoke
hazy breach
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You would not press a builder if you are at full cp no

dire spoke
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in blades ofc

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got it, figured thanks

violet palm
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Would be good if they nerf some bugs

tulip gorge
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is there a consensus for the best build in m+?

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is it the CB build?

haughty mural
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Sure nerf bp, buff evis and fix finality coup (:

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I’d be down for that
Back to nimble till 7

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But why would they touch us at this point?

tulip gorge
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because we're strong in m+

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and on some bosses in raid

haughty mural
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So are other specs tho

tulip gorge
#

yeah but you see

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if it's yellow class, it's bad

haughty mural
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Based

left ledge
#

I don’t think sub gets touched until midnight tbh

tulip gorge
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I would love some ST buffs for any of the rogue specs

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all of them are quite bad on ST bosses

haughty mural
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You can’t buff sub ST right now

left ledge
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Can’t buff sub ST without buffing their aoe

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So unfortunately it’s not happening

runic trail
tulip gorge
left ledge
#

They can buff black powder again though

violet palm
#

I love black powder

haughty mural
#

But it’s also our nimble burst cleave what’s really strong this raid

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So if they our st we are even more insane this tier

hazy breach
#

Blizzard typically balances around a chart similar to this, and to me it doesnt particularly look like sub is over performing here

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And while yes sub is strong in some areas, it also has very clear weaknesses

left ledge
#

I mean sub is strong on 4 out of 8 bosses

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The other 4 it is quite weak

vale pine
#

the chance of sub nerfs is low

hazy breach
#

My point was moreso that yeah sub does a lot of damage to the damage amp and the adds on forgeweaver

left ledge
#

In m+ sub is strong sure but it isn’t unmatched

tulip gorge
hazy breach
#

But its horrendous during the intermission

warm wagon
#

!ui

wicked joltBOT
warm wagon
#

!wa

tulip gorge
vale pine
left ledge
#

Damn not bottom frag

vale pine
#

haha

runic trail
hazy breach
#

And while yeah sub did really good platform damage and last phase damage on dimensius, it did dogshit in p1

tulip gorge
#

if they don't want to make sub stronger, they could at least buff assa ST

#

outlaw in general needs aura buffs

left ledge
#

They would’ve buffed assa if they wanted to by now

tulip gorge
#

there hasn't been any tuning

left ledge
#

They typically buff them pretty early

tulip gorge
#

this is the first tuning

left ledge
#

We will see what they do

haughty mural
#

Wasn’t frost the best performing mage spec sometimes on ptr

tulip gorge
#

they nerfed it randomly

#

and left arcane untouched

haughty mural
#

Doesn’t help that icy veins ain’t doing much

tulip gorge
#

on loomithar it's close

timid aspen
#

guys been getting my ass kicked trying to learn sub, which one of the guides yous guys recommend to focus to try and learn this

tulip gorge
#

wowhead

deep ivy
#

pretty much every high skill sub rogue uses sectec as its first finisher after dance symbols, why? ive learned to always use it on your second supercharged CP becasue of Danse macabre

wicked joltBOT
vale pine
#

pick your poison

timid aspen
#

TY!

vale pine
#

and most importantly

timid aspen
#

this spec is hard AF

vale pine
#

just ask in here if you are not sure

#

it is very easy to get stuck on things

feral barn
#

Poison doesn't do much on sub tho ...

timid aspen
#

been trying to follow hekilli for a bit and see if i can pick up some things

vale pine
#

and even if its a small thing, getting it explained gives you the option to focus on the important parts

hazy breach
timid aspen
#

but been sttuck for a while now

wet robin
#

!fuu

wicked joltBOT
tulip gorge
#

what if they buff the shit out of deathstalker

#

it would be so weird to play without the extra cdr

gilded jungle
#

I’ve been having issue with cleave in m+. Outside of dance it’s storm and BP correct?

cedar willow
#

Rupture on targets who live more than 11 is priority outside of dance

feral barn
cedar willow
#

Then bp

kind river
#

Is outlaw on forgeweaver M bait? Is that just it doing insane damage to the orbs?

#

It doesn't bring anything special for the boss burst windows right

gilded jungle
gilded jungle
feral barn
#

It's not outside of dance that you will gain dps if you struggle

gilded jungle
#

Outside of dance is my problem.

#

In dance there isn’t much of an issue.

cedar willow
#

Outside of dance is this spec’s problem

#

You need to get cdr to get back to dance

#

And do your rotation perfectly in dance ie 8 globals

gilded jungle
#

Maybe I’m miss managing my dance.

violet palm
#

How often do we send dance w/o symbols?

hazy breach
#

Almost never

tulip gorge
#

if you look at boss damage, outlaw is dead last

#

compared to sub

kind river
gilded jungle
#

I try to save dance for when I will have sec tech/ Sybols every dance.

kind river
#

I fear I might need it for soul hunters though

tulip gorge
#

yeah for soul hunters outlaw may be the play

haughty mural
#

It’s not padding if you can carry orbs 2ez

hazy breach
#

The only time youd use a dance without symbols is if youre at (or close to) max stacks of dance in big aoe while you wont have enough symbols for your next flag

tulip gorge
#

and do good damage to boss during damage amp

haughty mural
#

Yea but we are sub players

violet palm
#

Ye. It usually catches me off guard in gambit

kind river
#

My time playing sub has been very limited but I've never had more dance charges than symbols, I usually have to send my last sectec before my cd waiting period can start with only symbols and no dance, then im just waiting for cds and banking up combo points

gilded jungle
#

Also, inside dance is it ss, sec tech, bp? Specifically for m+ cleave.

hazy breach
#

Idk what you mean by ss

#

But its strike to build combo points

haughty mural
gilded jungle
haughty mural
manic ivy
#

guys im lost

m+ talents wowhead = no nado

ppl in m+ = nado

hazy breach
#

Play nado if you want to

tulip gorge
#

pretty sure the wowhead guide mentions you can play with nado

hazy breach
#

If you dont want to, then dont

haughty mural
#

Replicating and nado are close afaik

haughty mural
#

Play what you prefer

manic ivy
vale pine
#

tornado is more aoe focused, replicating is more cleave oriented

#

both is good

manic ivy
#

love u guys

haughty mural
#

I personally won’t touch nado till it’s removed in midnight

kind river
plush roost
#

And ⚠️ Warning Signs⚠️ is more alpha gamer focused!

heady spoke
#

is there a reason I can't macro symbols to shadow dance? Sorry I'm really struggling with this spec

kind river
#

Midnight will fix rogue and all the weird or bad hero talent interactions

brittle plinth
#

Lol

tulip gorge
#

good one

brittle plinth
#

Was waiting a long time for that copium emote

tulip gorge
#

sorry, DK needs another rework

#

so does mage probably

kind river
#

Realistically I'm probably gonna jump ship to that new DH spec anyway, unless it's just awful

#

That could happen

tulip gorge
#

we all know it's going to be S tier in the first season at least

plush roost
#

My hot take is outlaw and DS both get reworked based on the DS tier set being boring and half baked while trickster is cool and fatebound is neat

vale pine
#

its a talent in hopes haste is at one point not useless for us

plush roost
#

The haste sub rogue world

kind river
#

DS isn't just half-baked, the design is atrocious when faced with the reality of encounter design

plush roost
#

Will be something extraordinary

tulip gorge
golden harbor
#

Yea pls rework deathstalker, i love losing my hero talents

hazy breach
#

Well sub has no issues with losing mark

plush roost
hazy breach
#

Thats just an Assa thing

tulip gorge
kind river
#

More of an assa take from my standpoint but yeah

plush roost
#

They clearly put no effort when theres cool shit like stormbringer shamans

tulip gorge
#

fatebound however is horrible

#

and should be completely reworked

jade urchin
#

we only shurikenstorm between coups during shadow blades right?
as in we shadowstrike over storm in normal dance window even if unseen blade proc gets lost

plush roost
#

Idk i really like the 90s assa build

tulip gorge
#

the tier set made it more interesting

#

but by itself it's quite bad

haughty mural
tulip gorge
#

especially the part where you lose dps if there are multiple targets

plush roost
#

I think if they change fate intertwined and make the 90s thing baseline

tulip gorge
#

that shit needs reworked asap

plush roost
#

Fatebound has a super cool niche

haughty mural
# vale pine reworked ?

At this point I’d rather have it removed and spend dev time on the other parts of the tree tbh

kind river
#

I like new fatebound with the tier but they need to take away the aoe penalty lmfao

#

How's that a real thing man

plush roost
#

Ye

kind river
#

Rogue hero talents are cooked

plush roost
#

Idk if youve played fatebound outlaw but its actually really fun as well

#

With ghostly and ar being nearly perma

tulip gorge
#

too bad the aoe is ass

plush roost
#

Yeah but that can be tuned or changed

haughty mural
# vale pine fair

Probably rather rework replicating - think that’s easier
To a point where we aren’t a budget assa dot spreader

plush roost
#

My crackpot theory is that the tier sets this season get baked into everyones hero talents next season

tulip gorge
#

that is definitely going to happen

plush roost
#

They put a lot of work into them

tulip gorge
#

they always use tier sets as test talents for next expansion

kind river
#

It actually blows my mind, it's not just that the spec isn't providing much for aoe (at least with assa) but you actively get worse with more targets present

#

Not less damage overall but less dmg from hero talents

tulip gorge
#

I am 90% sure double coup will stay as a hero talent

acoustic matrix
#

!log

plush roost
#

Yeah its dumb, should just adjust the base value of tails coin and make fate intertwined increase the damage based on target count rather than decrease it

#

Or remove it entirely

#

I personally would prefer matching flips % increased based on target count

#

That would be way cooler than -6% damage

earnest canyon
#

new sub rogue here! im reading the guides and it says to flagellation with shadow blade. do we just macro it into one macro?

jade urchin
vale widget
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

vale widget
#

Theres your answer mate

earnest canyon
#

icic, thanks for the confirmation~

vale widget
#

Its not recomended because you always do Flag > Rupture to start gaining mastery stacks, then the usual sod + dance

#

And shadow blades just before sectech

oblique fable
#

Do you guys send netherprism when shadow blades is off cd? Or build it up to max stacks

dense geode
oblique fable
#

Just prism atm

dense geode
#

every CD

vast basin
#

is there any rules for netherprism if i use 2 on use?

#

trinket

dense geode
#

kind of

#

you would just use it every other typically

earnest canyon
wicked joltBOT
#

Unyielding Netherprism
Its a trinket you should be using with your Shadow Blades, using it on 9 or 18 stacks is the same on a target dummy but in practice thing like big pulls, damage amps or timings often end up favoring the big 18 stack.

vale pine
#

oh, it does not mention double on use

#

double on use you essentially use prism second

hazy breach
#

It depends on what the onuses are

vast basin
#

if my other trinket is lily as 2nd on use is it just worth to use just a bis passive trinket?

#

i have all the other passive trinkets

vale pine
#

so e.g. with forge you forge-prism and then alter between the two

#

allowing prism to stack up before use

kind river
#

18 stack prism goes crazy on damage amps

#

I got the #1 loomithar parse on assa

jade urchin
limpid gull
#

so since forge is 2 min cd we're not pressing it every shadowblades right? just every other one

haughty mural
earnest canyon
kind river
#

Ah some Chinese guy beat me already on loomithar

#

Inevitable I guess

tidal mica
#

Hey, i think i am doing something wrong.
I play mostly M+ and i tryed using BP at 4+ targets instead of Evis. But my damage is lower in comparison to just spamming Evis in thos same pulls.
So i play my regular opener and after the first Secret Technique and my 2 Coups i start spending CPs with BP.
After/Outside of the dances i generate with storm and spending with BP.
I tryed to get more muscle memory with the BP and stuff but i think thats not my problem.
This are Evis spam and Bp at the 5 Target Cleave dummis in town.
Anybody got some advice? Thanks for reading. 🙂

neon frigate
#

Hey guys, can i do mythic 10 lvl with 699 item lvl? I can comfortly do 7-8. I have 720 dagger

jade urchin
jade urchin
#

4 is roughly the same still#

plain creek
#

is it normal that my sims want more vers than mastery?

#

or am i cucked

jade urchin
#

its slightly more vers than mastery for me too

hazy breach
#

Or you can just not get haste

#

Thats about as much thought as we need to dedicate to stats

plain creek
#

and it wants me to go more vers

plain creek
#

im at like 2k

lucid jackal
#

Gear isn't complicated in this game

marsh path
#

Guys, the build that uses Thistle Tea
When should I use Thistle Tea only when I run out of energy or should I use it to deal damage? Is there a macro to use with another skill?

lucid jackal
#

Why would it be cooked?

jade urchin
left ledge
#

just sim items

jade urchin
karmic harbor
#

casual playing with shuriken tornado in keys MonkaThink

#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

left ledge
#

you mean tornado?

#

shuriken storm is baseline

karmic harbor
#

yeah tornado

astral axle
#

Casual playing with shadowstrike in keys HOLY

left ledge
#

tornado is pretty strong

#

just boring and non-interactive with our cds

#

actually not non-interactive

#

interactive in bad ways

lucid jackal
#

What stats is he running? What trinkets? What transmog? What dungeon? What day of the week is it? What comp do we need to play sub with

spiral garden
#

!wa

rigid delta
#

Is it possible to sim only a specific slot in the Droptimizer sims on Raidbots? I just wanna sim belt drops from Mythic+ dungeons

lucid jackal
#

Literally

tulip gorge
#

having tornado as a cdr tool is not that bad

left ledge
slate marlin
#

gonna pug a priory 17, what could possible go wrong

hazy breach
#

But also belts from m+ is unlikely to be very good since you generally need about a 710 belt to even replace the delve belt

daring agate
#

any tips on the opener? and cooldown usage?

lucid jackal
#

Just do it

cunning anvil
#

!mistakes

wicked joltBOT
#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

  • Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
  • Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
  • Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
  • If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
rigid delta
#

!wa

dry tapir
#

New to sub and still learning. I feel like I have my burst somewhat down and am getting better at flowing between flag/blades. I notice when I look at my overalls I do much less black powders compared to other high parses (keys) and a lot more evis. From what I've read it's bp at 7+. But when I do say streets there's not many pulls with that many yet some of the higher logs still had a lot of black powder.

#

Or even watched a dawn and the guy was hitting bp on the first pull

hazy breach
#

Bp at 4 or more

#

Not 7+

dry tapir
#

So do like sec tec burst window and just bp instead of evis?

hybrid thorn
#

I started mathing last night after watching Kush say Veiltouched isn't worth and Rotten is kinda sus.
Most common talents ran I've seen go with Inevitability down to The Rotten, I fucked around and got 2 points into Finality and based on a 12 ecodome key I ran to log Seems like finality is about 5.4%~ish value vs veiltouched being about 2% haven't checked the value of The Rotten but doesn't seem to be that good imo

hazy breach
#

Is the finisher prio

wet echo
#

i just recently came back after 9 months... what made bp so much better than before in the meantime?

chrome flax
#

All top rogue do not use the Tea, is it really worth picking an extra button?

wet echo
#

i remember it being evis up to like 12 targets

astral axle
haughty mural
#

Bp got buffed 1000x times for instance

feral knot
#

huge

wet echo
#

oh it did? didn't really go through old tuning notes

chrome flax
#

!coup

wicked joltBOT
#

Coup de Grace Optimizations:

  • **Number 1: **You can stop using finishers ~10 seconds before your Flagellation comes up. This is to build up Shadow Techniques for your cooldowns.
  • Number 2: ONLY with the 4 set of the new tier! -- During Shadow Blades, if you have the 4 set buff active and need to build combo points you can use Shuriken Storm to not proc Unseen Blade before using your 2nd Coup.
  • Explanation: The Tier Set buff does not allow new applications of the Unseen Blades stacks, so any Unseen Blades procs between the 2 Coup casts would be wasted, this small adjustment prevents that from happening.
haughty mural
#

The last time heading into s3

cedar iron
#

Idk why i'm struggling on arakara first pull to do dmg.

lucid jackal
#

Tea is more aoe, cb is more st

#

U can pick either

chrome flax
#

wdym not keybind it?

onyx ivy
#

if I wanna sim aoe, does dungeon slice work for sub?

lucid jackal
chrome flax
#

!mistakes

wicked joltBOT
#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

  • Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
  • Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
  • Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
  • If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
lucid jackal
#

Same way you macro cb

chrome flax
haughty mural
#

Dance

karmic harbor
#

!macro

wicked joltBOT
#

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use Araz's Ritual Forge
/use Unyielding Netherprism
/use Lily of the Eternal Weave

When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

karmic harbor
#

wait whats the shd tea + bs macro ThinkSpin

#

!bs

wicked joltBOT
#

Backstab/Shadow Dance/Tea Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance /castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, nullThis will cast Shadow Dance and Tea(if talented) on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

slender totem
#

not rly rogue related but how many ethereal shards for making sets should you have this week if you dont include the hc kill one?

rain vessel
#

2

#

3 with 2k rating or dimensius

chrome flax
#

!atro

wicked joltBOT
lucid jackal
#

And even if it didn't, this spec does 0 damage outside or cooldowns

#

Adaptability of thistle tea would move the needle almost 0

chrome flax
#

Im aware we are borderline useless outside CD's

winged kernel
#

how would u sim forgeweaver

#

hectic add cleave?

lucid jackal
#

Just single target

chrome flax
#

I didnt notice the auto drink now. Kinda cool

daring agate
#

are we supposed to be taking tea? no build i

#

have seen takes it

karmic harbor
#

where are you looking at builds

daring agate
#

archon and murlok

next valley
karmic harbor
fleet wharf
#

!loot

sudden belfry
#

Do you think sub will get nerfs being meta in m+ and top damage in some raid bosses?

karmic harbor
#

nobody can predict blizzard nerfs

neon frigate
#

Is thistle tea really better in m+ than cold blood?

lucid jackal
#

There is 0 world sub gets nerfed

lucid jackal
#

If you think sub is op enough to get nerfed you genuinely don't know what specs are actually op in the game rn

chrome flax
#

Sub is actually balance right now

neon frigate
#

Btw 1 more extra question is have 4p set. Is it better to focus on coup de grace in groups or just spam BP?

acoustic matrix
lucid jackal
#

What?

maiden hamlet
lucid jackal
#

What?

tepid trellis
#

and sectech-coup-evis on single target

#

so yes consume it whenever its up

lucid jackal
#

I thought balance druids were wows biggest victims

#

Not rogues but I guess times have changed

clever delta
#

guys did you hear about that sub nerf?

#

we are donmzo

hollow spear
#

You can't outvictim balance druids

karmic harbor
#

ill never forgive blizzard for nerfing sub after bfa uldir...

acoustic matrix
#

Rogues are meta like 80% of the time

chrome flax
#

A full dps class being top dps. omg how dare they

#

better buff paly

acoustic matrix
#

I heard there's a bug making pally giga busted rn

chrome flax
#

While sub have great output damage. They dont scale on very high key. Blizzard cant seem to properly balance our class

hollow spear
#

If you mean my raid dying to give them perma wings, that's not a bug

tepid trellis
hollow spear
chrome flax
#

Sub just wont hit the higher level of keys

karmic harbor
#

this m+ season seems pretty easy

chrome flax
#

Blizzard do on purpose to make every season easier than the last to give you a good dopamine rush. You still as good/bad as last season

astral axle
#

yeah the number 2 ranked rogue isnt doing high keys what are you thinking you idiot you absolute moron

#

you buffoon

chrome flax
#

If you look at current standing as this stage of the patch to know what is actually op or not. You miss understand wow mechanic fundamentaly

acoustic matrix
hazy breach
#

Gear is irrelevant

chrome flax
#

Some class scale more than other. Sub do not scale

marsh path
#

Is a Dance of Shadows and Symbols of Death macro worth it?

plush roost
astral axle
#

oh no

tepid trellis
astral axle
#

he brought up the S word

hazy breach
#

The reason sub didnt "scale" last season

#

Was that all the other specs got buffed

#

While sub didnt

lucid jackal
#

Claims other people don't understand the game, then mentions scaling

haughty mural
#

sCaLiNg

plush roost
#

Mfw my spec that values 3 secondary stats before DR doesnt scale

lucid jackal
#

I feel like double on use is super good in keys

#

Cuz U get so many 18 prism big blasts

tepid trellis
#

its quite good if you consistently do big pulls

hollow spear
#

It gains big value in a premade

hazy breach
#

I mean you get the same amounts

#

As if you didnt run it

plush roost
#

Prism alone will make sub viable. (Itll also be turbo op on assa just u watch)

acoustic matrix
#

Guys if I wanna predict shadowcraft refunds I just need to track when I have 7+ stack or I'm misunderstanding it ?

tepid trellis
#

yes

chrome flax
#

Im not saying Sub isnt good. But that pattern of early season being top to end up not touching the top of the keys is very common.

lucid jackal
#

Yeah but you can leverage an 18 stack more than just 9s

hazy breach
#

What

hollow spear
#

It sucks if you get an 18 stack and your tank decides to pull super small

tepid trellis
lucid jackal
#

Like if you pull around an 18 stack prism in an optimized group, it's gonna be better than just winging it

tepid trellis
#

which is what they do

hazy breach
#

Ofc

tepid trellis
#

and they left sub out of it

chrome flax
hazy breach
#

But that has nothing to do with double on-use

tepid trellis
#

for 5 months

#

that is what dictates what is

#

good

#

not how you "scale"

lucid jackal
#

Double on use lets you store 18 stacks without leaving a cooldown set without a button

chrome flax
#

Sure, keep coping

tepid trellis
#

scaling is completely irellvant when they do constant balance updates

lucid jackal
#

Listen, I'm a forge/prism truther

tepid trellis
#

bro

#

-.-

#

cba

acoustic matrix
tepid trellis
#

i did

#

its yes

acoustic matrix
#

oh the yes was for me

#

aight ty

lucid jackal
#

Well you can generate stacks during coup and get a refund during

#

so U wanna just track how many stacks u have in general

#

Not just when u have 7

#

Being aware that during coup, when ur at 5 is probably going to lead to a refund is important

lucid jackal
acoustic matrix
#

Yeah but once I coup i'll pass the 7 right ?

#

I'll have the gcd to react to it

lucid jackal
#

You wont

#

Because it happens in between coup swings

acoustic matrix
#

oh

tepid trellis
#

coup does 3 hits

hazy breach
#

(thats a bug)

tepid trellis
#

so any of em can proc refund

tepid trellis
swift tinsel
tepid trellis
#

is what i was told

lucid jackal
#

its a bug you can easily play around if you just track all sht stacks and not just 7

hazy breach
acoustic matrix
#

!wa

tepid trellis
#

the refund sound trigger wont always work on coup

#

it just is what it is

warm marlin
lucid jackal
#

more easily*

plush roost
acoustic matrix
marsh path
#

Is a Dance of Shadows and Symbols of Death macro worth it?

acoustic matrix
#

No Pruk

hoary anvil
#

in which situations would you dance without symbols?

lucid jackal
#

In your opener

normal patio
#

In my living room

tepid trellis
lucid jackal
#

Literally

tepid trellis
#

unbelieveable

hoary anvil
#

in the opener that you specifically sance+symbols together?

hazy breach
#

Not the second one

lucid jackal
#

In the opener that you specifically don't

acoustic matrix
#

I mean if you have a separate key for dance I guess you could macro it

lucid jackal
#

because the 2nd dance is ready before its time to send a 2nd symbols

hazy breach
#

With the first dance its often the opposite, then you wanna symbols before you dance

lucid jackal
#

this is standard opener

hazy breach
#

But either way the second set of symbols+dance in blades you do not want to be macroed

acoustic matrix
lucid jackal
#

Nope

#

Wouldn't have

acoustic matrix
#

you pressed first symbol right before 4 and second dance at 12

tepid trellis
#

he wouldnt have supercharged his 2nd sectech

high bramble
#

you want blue for sectec that would follow

chrome flax
lucid jackal
#

It means my supercharger wouldnt be on my sectec

high bramble
#

just missing from the image

lucid jackal
acoustic matrix
#

oh yeah true

marsh path
#

why use secret technique before Shadow Blade?

lucid jackal
# chrome flax Why SB after sectec?

Sectec hit damage is low, the clone damage is high, the added global of CP is worth more than the bonus damage blades provides on the hit damage

acoustic matrix
#

I've seen a lot of people do that

#

Do you have it macro'ed ?

#

Or just fast fingers

lucid jackal
#

I have 2 sub macros and thats it

hoary anvil
#

(worth noting, i'm asking not as a challenge, but more as a learning opportunity for myself, i like to know why things are done and nost just auto-default muscle memory to something)

lucid jackal
#

Trinkets with blades, and sectec with and without cold blood

#

all other macros are bad

#

all good

sly stag
#

Completely new to Rogue - Been learning sub this week and just wanted to undertand the reasoning behind not pairing Dance/Symbols in a macro. I see most guides i've read outline not to macro them but its not explained and brushed off usually.

lucid jackal
#

scroll up these past 20 messages

daring agate
#

do we ever even use Black Powder?

tepid trellis
#

4 or more targets

lucid jackal
#

All the time yes

#

4 or more targets

sly stag
lucid jackal
daring agate
#

so 4+ BP instead of Evi, correct?

lucid jackal
#

But the reason like I said to not macro it is to make sure supercharger lands on sectec

#

WIth a macro it would never in your opener

sly stag
tepid trellis
sly stag
sly stag
daring agate
sly stag
#

Is there a breakpoint of targets where you ignore the cdg procs?

tepid trellis
#

nope never

sly stag
#

thank you so much lol

lucid jackal
#

Coup gives you infinite everything so no

sly stag
#

Learning sub from scratch this week has been a bit daunting

lucid jackal
#

CDR, Mastery, Damage

#

Sub is very easy

#

Its easy to overthink though

manic salmon
#

sub is not very easy

#

you just got super used to it

sly stag
#

Just completely new to rogue and yeah i think im overthinking, some of my keybinds dont feel great so ill move stuff around to help

manic salmon
#

its not very intuitive

#

but play it for a week, everyone here is super helpful, read what they have to say

#

youll get it down in no time

lucid jackal
brittle rain
#

Sub has to be the most unintuitive spec right now

dreamy root
brisk hare
#

is it normal for Nimble flurry typically be highest on damage profile or is some thing wrong?

tepid trellis
sly stag
tepid trellis
#

and with 4set you can very easily reach like 25 flawless form stacks which is alot of finisher dmg

sly stag
#

I feel pretty consistent on Single target, but i get a bit mindflooded in keys for some reason due to the strict sequencing of everything

lucid jackal
sly stag
chrome flax
manic salmon
#

we dont talk about itlaw

#

outlaw

dreamy root
tepid trellis
#

so in like your burst, not only are you getting 73.5% mastery from flag

real hare
#

what poisons do we do

tepid trellis
#

flawless form will also give you 75% finisher dmg sometimes

tepid trellis
#

cuz u play forced induc

manic salmon
hoary anvil
#

yeah right right, 15 with sc

manic salmon
#

not flawless for

#

whatever i lost the word

tepid trellis
manic salmon
#

blade flurry for sub

tepid trellis
#

nimble flurry

manic salmon
#

yeah

hoary anvil
#

the sub flurry

chrome flax
#

But yeah lets not talk about failled warrior

manic salmon
#

yeah

tepid trellis
manic salmon
#

exactly

empty plume
#

if using The Rotten talent you can storm once after symbols

chrome flax
# manic salmon exactly

I still think they should remove outlaw and make a heal rogue that stab his ally with seringue

manic salmon
#

holy 🧑‍🍳

#

keep cooking chef

#

you might be onto something

chrome flax
#

Bruh, it would be so dope

empty plume
#

stealth medic

dreamy root
manic salmon
#

i like using the rotten in m+

tall hatch
#

From a scale 1-10 how hard is to learn Sub?

chrome flax
lucid jackal
#

Idk maybe like a 5

manic salmon
#

7

crystal bone
#

6

tall hatch
manic salmon
#

@lucid jackal question

chrome flax
manic salmon
#

scenario: 2 targets share health

#

is bp -> evisc or is evisc stronger with nimble

lucid jackal
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evis is better

manic salmon
#

ty

spice lichen
chrome flax
#

if 2 health share. def evis

sly stag
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Im sure its somewhat recency bias, but i consider my self a pretty good player and this feels like the steepest learning curve of anything i've learned in the last few expansions. Also rogue being mostly new to me plays into it, but definitely struggling more than i have with any other spec in recent years.

daring agate
#

in aoe does shuriken replace backstab/ss?\

spice lichen
#

Outside of dance 2+ targets
In dance only between coup

sly stag
#

It feels like there is way more condititionals for "If X do Y" than most specs.

open vortex
#

does anyone have a wa that tracks how long the gcd for coup is, just incase you get the refund late?

spice lichen
#

Outside of dance just go ahead and put up ruptures and take a bio

chrome flax
tall hatch
#

!mistakes

wicked joltBOT
#

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

  • Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
  • Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
  • Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
  • If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.
open vortex
#

i don't play with sound

manic salmon
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cdg has a sound cue with 3 strikes

lucid jackal
#

Its for sure more involved than a majority of specs, but I think the issue ppl have with rogue in general is overthinking things

empty plume
spice lichen
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I’m telling you outlaw has more complex stuff going on than sub rn

hoary anvil
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brother im overthinking the hell out of these 15s windows

chrome flax
lucid jackal
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cuz at the end of the day all sub is about is learning your major CD sequences, knowing when to stop using cooldowns, and that's kinda it lol

spice lichen
sly stag
spice lichen
#

Esp if you’re staring at details watching yourself go from 1 to 7 and you see dance up

hoary anvil
mental kettle
#

god friday hits diff when you have next week off

chrome flax
spice lichen
#

Yeah just live life shadowstriking and vibe out it’s definitely different

wispy crystal
#

Is sub rogue the superior spec for M+ in single target and AOE?

mental kettle
#

no

#

Assa wins aoe pad

spice lichen
#

I wouldn’t call it pad

wispy crystal
#

Oh my assas rogue does like 2M single target it's really sad though

mental kettle
#

yes

spice lichen
#

Funnel + aoe pad

mental kettle
#

bleed build ST

spice lichen
#

Sub is some top tier aoe pad

manic salmon
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WELL

mental kettle
#

kinda dogshit