subtlety

[lilac stag]

also people rearranging thier cds on the fly, or all of the sudden your gate assignment is fucked because Janet died. Now your big cds are wasted

[runic trail]

I wasn't even meant to be a raider, I was a social, raid team fell apart, and they went, 'Hey, we did some keys with you, you eat less glue than most of the guild, wanna try raiding?'

I GOT FUCKING TRICKED

Went from never mythic raiding to progging kyveza and court

[keen dome]

The 'ol social to suffering pipeline

[lilac stag]

Queen was misery

Visually and gameplay

[runic trail]

Double misery, I was on pops and portals

[lilac stag]

Same

[vale pine]

are you in a officer or guild master position in your guild for longer time?

because many of these complains/etc are not in public discussions

like there are other vector like loot or "bro this guy fucked up a mechanic twice"

but these are mostly under control in our guild, people are many times happy about the way these are handled

but people just love to complain

you are the living example of it, you love to doompost in this chat

[runic trail]

A little bit of doomposting can be healthy, as a vent

[short radish]

doomposting sustains me

[vale pine]

And i don't see how any world rank should change that

e.g. you saw in both echo and liquid's stream people comlaining about loot

this is the enviroment you would assume loot is not even a discussion topic

[hollow spear]

Complaining is just human nature

[lilac stag]

I’m on loot council and been part of the guild for 4 years. We’re very transparent and people are called out for needing to better constantly. What you do outside of raid is tracked. Out core 15/16 players has been the same.

I’ll doom the spec and the devs. Vs your everything is good always and forever take.

[vale pine]

there are ways to keep people happy, then more you manage to align expectations then better.
(which is not possible always)

[hollow spear]

People will find something to complain about, even if they have to try

[lilac stag]

cliques don’t last long in our guild.

[vale pine]

same

[lilac stag]

officers sit if they play like shit

[hollow spear]

Since when is fuu a everything is good always and forever person?

[lilac stag]

just like raiders

[lilac stag]

Every iteration of sub changes forever

[hollow spear]

His constant clashes with guy are proof he's not 😅

[vale pine]

hey, i like to complain just as much but don't let scath know^^

[lilac stag]

I just ignore guy

[vale pine]

haha

[lilac stag]

this week he’s been fun though

[vale pine]

its fine, its healthy to have diffrent opinions. And guy often has very diffrent positions and views

[lilac stag]

yep

[short radish]

no, only my opinions are based and all others are cringe

[vale pine]

nobody can be right all the time

[lilac stag]

I’m very self aware that I’m done with blizzards shit. If guild mates are enough to keep me going next tier. TBD

[keen dome]

But.. purple tier

[vale pine]

e.g. i fully admited that the removal of dust was something i def. assumed would end up worse

yet i think sub plays good (at least trickster) due to the change

[lilac stag]

game dev is shit tier. Spec dev for rogues shit tier.

[vale pine]

sueprcharger is also a good talent

[lilac stag]

tired of being beta tester evey Tuesday

EU doesn’t get that enjoyment

[keen dome]

The symbol change was something I expected to dislike but then it was just really good.

[keen dome]

We get more of it than we used to

Not as bad as the US has it, but geez. It's gotten worse.

[lilac stag]

Not even close to NA

[runic trail]

we thank you for your service

[vale pine]

hey, we still get to enjoy certain beta testing features

also patches can be funny

let me quick find a screenshot

[lilac stag]

we still have 2 or 3 accounts that can’t earn raid rep and stuck at 2499/2500 renown 15

Not like the extra healing and dmg wouldn’t be useful or anything

[hollow spear]

Hey the last beta feature was NA getting to parse for a day!

[sly shore]

is the coup given by 4p the same spellid as regular coup

[keen dome]

I've got a buddy who's still stuck at Renown 4. It just won't increase at all.

[vale pine]

this was my game first delve i did to get my disc belt this patch

[runic trail]

looks like my UI

[keen dome]

damn, tbc-era UI

[lilac stag]

you play on a toaster

[sly shore]

4:3

[vale pine]

yes, its a rly good resolution for coding

[sly shore]

just having more screen space owns for coding

[short radish]

hey be careful

[hollow spear]

4:3

[lilac stag]

9:16 better

[runic trail]

at least bran is still giving you good advice

[keen dome]

I love it goes up and to the right too

[vale pine]

i need to be careful about spore shrooms

[vale pine]

*spinshrooms

[lilac stag]

game dev bugs and playing on a toaster not the same

[sly shore]

With preview

[keen dome]

lmao

[lilac stag]

looks like your gpu just shit itself

Unless there’s more context

[vale pine]

was about to say, you waste a lot of screen space in the first screenshot

[runic trail]

there's new and interesting dogs nearby?!

[keen dome]

Nah, I had similar stuff to what Fuu posted. Also some other issues where everything went green and I had to reboot the game.

[sly shore]

and you can meet them

[keen dome]

There's some weird shit happening this patch, again.

[runic trail]

In my local area?

[sly shore]

I usually just open in chrome though for developer tools

[lilac stag]

Sounds like nvidia driver issues but just making an assumption.

[vale pine]

if i have a webview

[keen dome]

I thought so, but a friend had it on AMD too.

[vale pine]

i usually put it on a diffrent screen

🙂

[keen dome]

It's just something strange happening and shitting itself.

[runic trail]

and i haven't even given money yet, thats a good deal

[sly shore]

same

[keen dome]

You need a 4th monitor in the top right imo

[vale pine]

haha, looks like overkill

[sly shore]

Na it's super useful

I use all screens

[void hound]

whats todays yap session about

[sly shore]

Even in my day to day usage

[vale pine]

@lilac stag my gf has a decent gpu/cpu and had similar issues, just that her game crashed and my one well... you saw it

[keen dome]

video game issues, obr, raiding, and meeting new and interesting dogs in your area.

[void hound]

obr?

[keen dome]

one button rotation

[void hound]

ah

thank you gestalt, youre my greatest ally

[lilac stag]

I genuinely wonder how many people have updated to latest nvidia drivers which are horrific

[keen dome]

Quite a few. I've purposefully not 'cos they shit the bed sooooo hard.

[vale pine]

i usually only have one 2nd screen if even

[short radish]

i wait 2 months before upgrading

i dont trust updates

[vale pine]

many times just use virtual desktops

[lilac stag]

you’d still be fucked @short radish

[vale pine]

think its underrated tech

[short radish]

[lilac stag]

they haven’t fixed em still.

[void hound]

which version is fucked

cause i updated recently

[vale pine]

fun fact

[lilac stag]

oh I’d have to go digging it out

[vale pine]

amd drivers are so bad for some generations

that you can

use the linux driver and have better performance and stability

(basically a community driver)

[lilac stag]

YouTube nvidia drivers and you’ll find a list of videos all shitting on the release

I’m not surprised. AMD has had awful driver support since they existed.

[vale pine]

its funny how graphic card drivers are such a shitshow sometimes

[lilac stag]

I gave them one more try and said nope. Returned it.

[runic trail]

me right now, never touched the proper AMD driver

Just use the basic one

[vale pine]

i also wonder if blizz still plans to put the upgraded warden version in with 11.2

which has a lot of cpu overhead

[runic trail]

I already had to upgrade my CPU this season, pls no

[vale pine]

it could basically mean many hardware configuration which can play well now would be somewhat unplayble. So even mid range pc's

[keen dome]

Yeah, I'm curious if they'll do something with warden

[runic trail]

OAB on season launch was a fucking powerpoint presentation

[keen dome]

Nothing has been as bad as the stupid worm in Nerubar for me.

And I have a decent pc. Shit sucked!

[lilac stag]

Sire D in CN says hello

[runic trail]

Yeah, my PC was fine enough and shouldn't have an issue running WoW

[vale pine]

i mean some of the fps issues are related to addons too

plater can be a big problem

weakauras too

[lilac stag]

what will bliz blame after they delete all addons?

[keen dome]

lmao, the freeze on pull every time

[lilac stag]

and yes shit coded WAs and Plater is bad

[runic trail]

But then I tried a pull on OAB without weakauras and hated life, I ended up playing that boss on PS1 resolutions

[keen dome]

Legit curious what'll happen once they add basic fucking nameplates to the game.

I wish I could ditch plater but it's just so useful

[vale pine]

Haha, i mean my point is there is part of warden which is not enabled on live

warden = the anti cheat software from wow

which would cause a big overhead to the game

so you would have even less cpu ressources for the game

[keen dome]

I've noticed WoW has some kind of memory issue going on, too. It'll slowly creep up on RAM usage over time the longer it's open for. I think it's connected to the crafting UI, and def isn't an addon 'cos I've replicated it without anything enabled.

[runic trail]

I mean isn't that just because you never close the game?

[vale pine]

there is def. one

i troubleshooted my gf's wow instance a few weeks ago

[keen dome]

Well, yes. But that's why I've noticed it

[vale pine]

because it kept crashing with "out of memory"

[keen dome]

Ye. I've seen it go up and above using 10 gigabytes of RAM.

[vale pine]

the culprit was direct x version tho

[keen dome]

Oh, interesting. 12?

[vale pine]

but we now fixed the issue entirely

[haughty mural]

hello friends
any news ?

[vale pine]

by doubling the ram in the pc from 16 to 32 GB

can't run out of ram if you have 16 GB spare

[lilac stag]

my general outlook is this. Game is held together by 20 year old code. It’s not going to get better unless they actually rewrite it. There’s going to be a lot of bumps in the road as they try to port it to Xbox. Going to come down to if they make enough annoyances for the addicts to kick the addiction.

[vale pine]

not entirely sure, it was direct x 11 or 12 problem

[keen dome]

Ye, I've found DX12 and 11 are like, 90% of the solution to wow graphic issues

[vale pine]

so you just switched to the other one and it was gone

[keen dome]

Either swapping it to 12 from 11, or down to 11 from 12 depending on the person haha

[lilac stag]

I’ve loved wow. I don’t any longer. It’s an abusive relationship.

[vale pine]

but we had the other one perform worse in general fps wise

[keen dome]

This was me before I took my big SL break.

[vale pine]

which was why we initially chanegd it

[keen dome]

So a big 🫂 to you, Scath

[vale pine]

so my gf did say the game feels more laggy

because it had more 1% lows

[keen dome]

interesting

[vale pine]

again, just buying more ram fixed it intirely

shes back on the other direct x version

and everything works

[lilac stag]

windows itself has a lot to do with it

[vale pine]

wdym

[lilac stag]

there’s a number of tweaks you can do in windows 11 that makes playing games a lot smoother

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

we initially assumed it was a widows issue, so i clean installed it again

[keen dome]

Maybe I should go to 64GB next build I do...

[lilac stag]

10 also has them

But I wouldn’t touch a box without 64 gb of ram and basically a drive dedicated for a scratch disc / os

[vale pine]

i did the usual optimizations

but if you have a specific setting to look at let me know

[keen dome]

When I built this machine during BfA, 32 was the go-to haha

[vale pine]

@sly shore how is your web dev journey going.
Just out of curiosity, what framework are you learning?
Vue? React? Svelte?

[lilac stag]

I think you can easily end up with 3x apps trying to auto record your game play and not even know it

[keen dome]

or the nvidia experience pile of trash app doing something bonkers

[vale pine]

on no, i dissabled game bar etc

[lilac stag]

Xbox gaming, GPUs, twitch, steelseries/razer, etc.

[vale pine]

if i setup a pc for someone else i still tweak it to be performant and dissable useless stuff or remove it (ofc only if the person agrees to it)

one thing i need to say tho

[lilac stag]

Then auto logging via wcl or rio

[vale pine]

my gf rly likes to have a browser with browser games open

[keen dome]

Yeah, auto logging is such a hog.

[vale pine]

which lowers her ram budget

[lilac stag]

iTunes still sucks on a pc

[vale pine]

was also something we had issues in the past,and now upload it after raid

people use spotify

not itunes

[lilac stag]

not when you have apple for everything.

[vale pine]

why would you?

[keen dome]

Yeah, I upload after I'm done with content. Also, I find it funny when you join a run and people go "anyone logging"

[vale pine]

even on apple, spotify makes more sense

[lilac stag]

medical devices

[vale pine]

so you would

install itunes

[lilac stag]

and ITunes is basically free

[vale pine]

on your medical device

what

that sounds not like a good idea

i think i miss something

[lilac stag]

We have Apple products since it 100% of the time works with my medical device.

[vale pine]

oh you mean

i think i understand

[lilac stag]

I think we spend 30 for the year for iTunes.

[vale pine]

well if your medical device only supports apple

then you still can use whatever music player or streaming service you want

^^

[lilac stag]

The support is there, but because every android is different it’s spotty as hell and not reliable when it’s my life depending on it. Apple they just code for Apple and it works

[keen dome]

Makes sense, yeah

[vale pine]

i mean again

you can use spotify on apple

it has nothing with apple vs. android

[lilac stag]

iTunes integrates with everything else we have so why would I spend $120/yr vs the $30 for whatever deal we have

spotify and their AI music also irritates me from an artist perspective. But that’s a different topic

[vale pine]

going from their website

apple music is 11$/month, spotify seems to be 12$/month

30$ is i assume in a bundle with other apple services?

also if we talk about performance, at least on a desktop a local media player is way more efficient than spotify.

I can make you a short clip showcasing the diffrences in cpu and ram usage if you want to dive into performance optimization

[lilac stag]

Yeah I don’t even remember where or how we got the deal on it but it’s our family pack so I just go with it.

Performance of what? My machine is fine.

[latent finch]

How my week started:https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1123527653404721153/1385297559303487648/image.png?ex=6858da23&is=685788a3&hm=d0a8f4eff1be1783ad182a9d17fe3cd815a50c5065854fe42cb8273117e6bca6&

[brisk onyx]

try change to dx11

[lilac stag]

try uninstall wow

[brisk onyx]

idk why but my friend said it worked for him

[lilac stag]

yeah it can.

[latent finch]

Tried both but did not work. But now it just comes like every 20 min in different forms i reload and its good again. Im not playing wow alot atm so i dont really mind

[lilac stag]

wow trouble shooting at this point is unplug it and plug it back in after 5 minutes.

[lilac stag]

Are your gpu fans working?

[swift tinsel]

Or check if Opie is doing it lol

Culprit 90% of the ui bugs for me

[keen dome]

hey, that's the issue I had too! Had to reboot.

[latent finch]

Yes i also have no issue on any other game its just wow. Deinstalled it. Run it without addon still green it is what it is. Downgraded GPU driver Updated it tried most stuff. At this point im just a meme with it in my guild because i raided with that

[latent finch]

Yea it fixes it self for me after a reload or reboot but it comes back soon after.

[keen dome]

Frustrating 😦

[lilac stag]

Is it just the icons?

[latent finch]

Nah sometimes its also just the whole screen

[lilac stag]

sounds like a memory leak

[latent finch]

Yea i know a bunch of guys who have kinda the same issue but not to that level. My record is 100% Green

[barren wren]

It’s quite common after last update, usually reload helps for me

[lilac stag]

also double check your available space on your ssd

Blizzard said blue screen of death? Nah we’re going green

[latent finch]

You think that but then blizzard hit me yesterday with something wait i need to search where i have the screenshot

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1282055954783010838/1385969175591129148/image.png?ex=6858a8a1&is=68575721&hm=f203dabbf02d9d8d02a829a5ef1b1a985bc835e1423a5c0b7277f26a26dd5fc7&

[keen dome]

Same issue Fuu had, hah

[bleak night]

zul already took your funnel, now hes coming for your gpu

[covert hollow]

having that as well. do you have amd graphics or gforce?

[latent finch]

Im not old enough to know zuls crime without listening to elders

[latent finch]

have a nvidia card

[covert hollow]

then its prob wow cause I have amd

happens often when I'm alt tabbed

[latent finch]

Have no issues elsewhere and yea its happens alot when i tab in. Which is a bit of a problem because im a guy who alt tabs out and in alot because i have only 1 screen

[covert hollow]

same

[lilac stag]

are you playing windowed mode?

[covert hollow]

I am

[lilac stag]

idk you’re issues. Was talking to @latent finch

[covert hollow]

mine is same as his

tab in, things go green

[latent finch]

yea

[lilac stag]

Using HDMI port or?

[latent finch]

I`m using a laptop rn

[bleak night]

[keen dome]

To me it looks like it's a memory issue where it can't load the right information so it goes "SHIT, GREEN MODE"

[lilac stag]

force it to use nvidia instead of the intel on board

[covert hollow]

im using display port

[lilac stag]

you’re using amd you’re on your own mate. I won’t touch that shit. A

you can try hdmi port if you’re alt tabbing a lot

[covert hollow]

just stating things that might help see a commonality

sinces its a issue that appeared post-patch, with 2 different graphics cards

[latent finch]

Yes its also my guess but the error log from wow is kinda shit ngl

[lilac stag]

the short answer: memory leaks
The long answer: good luck backtracking it. Get more ram

[vale pine]

many of the issues could be also compiler flags or other issues related to the wrong use of driver api's etc. Its a complicated topic

[brittle plinth]

Sounds like a driver issue? May been up turn off features and hope it's one thing setting it off but it's probably nothing like that

[latent finch]

i have 32gig ram which does not even get close to be full while playing wow. Its just a big mess rn for me

[lilac stag]

32 ain’t enough

Just saying

[vale pine]

the problem is, the driver is rarely changing

so if a wow update introduces a problem

it might be that they changed something in the game code which leads to it

gpu's are a mess, i can give you some examples

[lilac stag]

the problem is both current versions of nvidia and amd to a point have issues which just compound it.

[keen dome]

ye, true true

[lilac stag]

roll back drivers

[brittle plinth]

That's why I was hoping it's a graphic feature based on the trigger. But it could just be bad luck driver adjacent.

[lilac stag]

To a known working version

[vale pine]

I have a switch but some games lag on it, so i dumped a few games and now can play on pc via emulation

[brittle plinth]

Try rollback ya

[vale pine]

therea re two emulators, one does not support a certain older graphics api anymore.
So if i use a certain feature in the program, it would just crash (resolution scale is one example)

[brittle plinth]

^

[vale pine]

however there are two emulators for switch, the 2nd one has the very same feature

and i can use it without any crash or problem

[brittle plinth]

That's why I was proposing turning off graphics features till one sticks

The old dos gaming methods

[vale pine]

the first one also initially supported older hardware, but they started to use newer api function in a re-write which older cpu/gpu's would not support anymore and hence crash

which means, how you design things is improtant

maybe one is more performant than the other due to more modern functions the old gpu can't do

but its something you need to consider, and adjust to your target audience

which for wow is also many people with not the newest hardware

[brittle plinth]

My aio cooler emptied some point during classic. Vael used to turn into a power point with a slide every 25s.

That was a boss that I tanked and kill time was more or less one slide.

Good times.

[sly shore]

I have covered html and css so far, next up is JS ES6, then Node, React, SQL

[vale pine]

react is probably the most used one, nice

hope you are having fun (or at least enjoy the learning experience)

[swift tinsel]

fairly sure the 2pc reset has no icd after looking into it a bit last night, gonna check more directly

by that I mean the reset-UB can proc a reset

[vale pine]

oh interessting

[swift tinsel]

did about an hours' worth of checking and the proc chance is consistently ~30% so that's nice

yeah you can definitely proc a reset from a reset

just happened

all testing being done without Thousand Cuts

[hollow spear]

We need a reset counter like outlaw has for their ace proc

0 stacks into coup in 4 backstabs

0.3^4?

[swift tinsel]

got a WM proc but 3x backstab casts -> 3x UB within one 20sec UB 'cooldown window'

[hollow spear]

First one is a bit tricky

If you only count it from your first proc, it's 0.3^3

[swift tinsel]

if anyone wants to try and replicate, I'm just sitting at the dummy and pressing backstab every 20sec to proc blade, then backstab again to see if it reset, then backstab again to see if the reset can reset

[hollow spear]

2.7% chance to go from your first ub proc to a coup

Leaving thousand cuts out of the equation

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I'm doing all of this without having that talented or using sectech to avoid results being confounded by Disorienting Strikes

but so far it appears to just be a flat 30% chance for any Unseen Blade hit to reset its cooldown, even the ones that were just reset

which is pretty neat

[hollow spear]

Definitely neat

Increases rng of course

[swift tinsel]

so adding in resets from thousand cuts and guaranteed from disorienting that'll be a nice bit of extra coups

plus the damage from a 30% buffed unseen blade is pretty solid

additionally, Sigil of the Cosmic Hunt might be my sleeper trinket pick for 2nd if not the Antenna one

[keen dome]

Huh, that seems good

[swift tinsel]

it's like a juiced Edge of Night

can crit

was doing like 3.5mil at a nearly-dead dummy

[hollow spear]

UB is like 6% of our overall in st?

[keen dome]

Real nice for any fights with adds, too, I bet

[swift tinsel]

no proc rate data on wowhead but the few 5min test put it at around 4ppm

also downside of Antenna is you can see other peoples orbs like Branch

they look like more visible Transmitter orbs

shudder

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

[swift tinsel]

me and a warrior at the org dummy kept trying to pick up each others lol

but they move towards you like Branch did at about the same speed iirc

did a lookover of gear from raid and dungeon pool and we're able to get vers/mastery on almost every non-tier slot, if not mastery/crit

only 2 vers-heavy pieces though including the cloak boost boots

[lilac stag]

don’t forget our nearly non-scaling embellishments

[keen dome]

Embellishments..

What a tragedy.

[lilac stag]

the story of WoW

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-darth-plagueis-anakin-star-wars-gif-11720001

[keen dome]

I've had a few people ask me ('cos I do so much crafting) what embellishments they should use

It's always funny that I'm expected to know that but thankfully this time I can just go "I dunno use whatever who cares!"

[hollow spear]

Not sure if I prep a piece with nerub to craft a myth ascension dagger next season

[alpine wraith]

man embellish are so silly

they really didnt want to work hard

[hollow spear]

Or if u just send lens again

Kinda irrelevant

[tribal blade]

embels became an annoyance rather than something to be excited about

[alpine wraith]

they are so weak now

[brittle plinth]

Do enchants and gems change season to season? Does it make sense to buy some early?

[alpine wraith]

sometimes they change but i havent seen new ones

[swift tinsel]

No new consumes or enhancements on ptr that I’ve seen yet

[vale pine]

nothing changes this season

for next season, we don't know yet if everyhing was added to the ptr

so if you want to buy soemthing in advanced

just do so 3-4 weeks before patch

[lilac stag]

Lense is the only thing that even remotely scales so

[brittle plinth]

Thank you

[swift tinsel]

Think I still have like 400 tempered pots from my s2 stockpile lol

About as many alchemical chaos too

[hollow spear]

I think lens was already stronger than ascension this season, at least for me

[lilac stag]

yeh just not for m+ but the gain is whatever.

[alpine wraith]

i got some millions of leather ore etc before this patch to get some money

maybe it is time to begin stockpiling again

i usually use blessed grip

then vers patch

as that one is very good with super high uptime

[hollow spear]

If there's no reliable cleave

Vers patch sims under lens for me

Even with 90% uptime

[alpine wraith]

my gear is a bit different

[hollow spear]

And grip was even worse for me

[alpine wraith]

and grip is never super good overall but tbh all embellish are so weak now

it is whatever

[hollow spear]

Eh, I take whatever is 10k higher

Not much, but better than nothing

[alpine wraith]

just proc blessed grip every time on cds

you noob

dont be like me and always proc outside dance

[hollow spear]

If I did that I'd have to be consequent and use azerokk trinket too

[alpine wraith]

true chad trink

one day someone will just HIT

and do top dmg

then get forgotten 2 weeks laer with another raid buff

[median nacelle]

any1 have a link to trinket choices in s3?

[alpine wraith]

still many things can change

i think the agi spymaster and the super execute one

are strong contenders

[vale pine]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/items/armor/trinkets/class:4?filter=82;2;110200

[haughty mural]

Lily (:

[swift tinsel]

I could see a world where you lily for opener with spymasters then lily where it makes sense while stacking spymasters

Depending on fight

But like Hacha I’m thinking spyglass and execute is likely

[vale pine]

yes, i already suggested it in the pins

[swift tinsel]

Did a bunch more testing and it’s pretty consistently 4ppm and does good damage

[vale pine]

not possible to use lily and spyglas?

[swift tinsel]

You can, just not at the same time

[vale pine]

i think the combination sounds like it migth be bis

[swift tinsel]

I edited my message a bit above that one to agree

So like

[vale pine]

oh ^^

[swift tinsel]

Lily opener

Then spyglass dance after flag at 30sec

So then if the stacking is like it is now you should have max by 3min flag

Bc you spyglass 30sec ish after opener after it’s cd is over from using lily which actually lines up well

Bc it takes about 2:30is to stack to max

If that makes sense

Sorry at gym atm

[vale pine]

ye, could see that working out

[swift tinsel]

Will try it out when I can get my hands on lily

Or just HoC when I get home bc same concept

[alpine wraith]

you likely use the spymasters like 15 secs in and the execute passive one

or maybe we use both lily and spyboi on triple dances

[swift tinsel]

Would be nice if 4pc worked so could check cdr stuff

Any day now

Would be cool

Ty John Blizzard

[vale pine]

its early in the ptr cycle

[bleak night]

yeah it'll be fixed a week or two before launch dw

[haughty mural]

so i just completed skittering breach and didnt get critical chain - it does say they dont need to be overcharged so i assume its buggy ?

[graceful osprey]

🙏 for sub changes/updates/buffs
11.2 surely

[swift tinsel]

No st gameplay changes please

[haughty mural]

everythings fine

probably just 🙏 for bug fixes

[vale pine]

use charged bolts before reset

[haughty mural]

yea - just wanted to prepare for reset

[swift tinsel]

If they don’t fix DN bug it’ll notably impact tier set so I mostly expect that to get addressed if nothing else

‘Mostly’ for the off/likely chance it doesn’t

[vestal escarp]

It's automatic from the loot chests at the end

Unsure if you got an unlucky run

[runic trail]

Did you click the item in your bags?

It doesn't just unlock it right off the bat

[hollow spear]

The good thing about spyglass is the additional flexibility it gives you

Holding flag won't hurt as much as with hoc or other 90s trinkets

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it’s a pretty cool concept, plus the damage alone is notable

[hollow spear]

Numbers will probably get tuned, but lily doesn't look too strong

[haughty mural]

yes thats it

thx guys

im literally blind sometimes

[vale pine]

👍

[runic trail]

Need to figure out whats knocking me out of vanish randomly, try to go for a vanish -> shadowstrike and it just goes, nah.

[proper fulcrum]

There's this thing where if you try to SS too quickly after vanish it doesnt work

[lucid jackal]

If ur inbetween coup it sometimes does it

Or other random white hits

vanish is generally low impact so it doesnt really matter thankfully

[runic trail]

yeah, not a huge deal. Just throws me off and takes me a second to readjust.

I'm still learning the spec so sudden disruptions to the norm take me a moment to get back on track

Just wasn't sure if I was doing something wrong or if there's a way to avoid it

[lucid atlas]

how to change belt effects

[runic trail]

Right click on the belt while its equipped

[lucid atlas]

noice

[wary plover]

where do I put the coefficent?

[left ledge]

You put them under the custom simc options input text box

[left ledge]

Oh I guess you have to be in advanced

[warm marlin]

You can put it in the footer of expert mode

Will let you run top gear

[left ledge]

True I forgot that was a thing

[ashen dock]

When are dungeons on ptr this Tuesday?

[wary plover]

thanks

[vale pine]

click expert mode, then put it in the header

alternatively, can just use it in advanced sim

#assassination message

^you can use it like this in advanced sim:

Overwrites
Your /simc
The copy/pasta

[cyan perch]

does anyone know max myth and heroic ilvl off the top of the dome

[alpine wraith]

max myth 684

hc 671

[cyan perch]

i ment for next tier my b

[warm marlin]

710/723

[hollow spear]

Is the gap between normal and heroic still 7?

[vale pine]

its always 13

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[vale pine]

^ if you look at the picture, the main diffrence is how far you can upgrade normal and heroic

[hollow spear]

Champ 658, hero 665

Or am I tripping

[vale pine]

this

normal starts at 636

heroic at 649

diffrence is 13 item level

but you can max upgrade normal almost equally high to heroic

[hollow spear]

I'm obviously talking max upgrade level

[vale pine]

so if you mean max upgrade levels

its only 2 upgrade levels which is less than the 13, but half of it

so 7

[hollow spear]

Yeah

That's what I meant

[warm marlin]

the gap between normal/hero is 7 and heroic/mythic 13 since this expac

it was different in df

[vale pine]

^ thats true too

[hollow spear]

Because the two upgrade levels on heroic are kind of a waste anyways

[vale pine]

it was 4 upgrades

it is why most people just upgrade champion gear

and then replace it with mythic

the item level gap made normal gear too good

creating a weird dynamic where heroic gear is kinda not needed that much

ofc the last patch did change it

because you can only upgrade hero and mythic track 2 more times

makes the gap 13 again ^^

just saying

so its actually 13 right now

[warm marlin]

they strongly suggested turbo boost would happen again as well

so hero prob will be 13 mid patch

you know, long after the normal/hero gap is relevant

[vale pine]

I am personally not a big fan of the system

[hollow spear]

Yeah exactly

[bleak night]

yeah by the time hero track is relevant vs champ track it wont matter

[vale pine]

simply because it makes it harder for people who come back to the gam to gear

[hollow spear]

When turbo boost hit, I didn't have normal pieces left

Barely any heroic pieces either

[vale pine]

haha abolutely

[hollow spear]

Turbo boost really shrank the time gap between guild ranks

On the backend

[vale pine]

its just a diffrent version of what they always did

https://tenor.com/view/same-but-still-different-gif-22118327

^

[warm marlin]

does coup consume the finality eviscerate it generates on live btw fuu?

I noticed it on ptr

[vale pine]

blizz basically did usually nerf encounters

[hollow spear]

Apart from Gally being much easier than Ansurek, I feel like you just got almost a little too strong

[bleak night]

well

the raid rep buffs were supposed to replace having to nerf bosses as much

then we got turbo boost on top of that even

so its definitely more power than usual at the end

plus im not sure they even nerfed the bosses noticably less than other tiers

[hollow spear]

They still nerfed bosses quite a bit

[bleak night]

yeah

[hollow spear]

Maybe Gally not as much

But that guy was easy in the first place

OAB and Mug were both harder

[vale pine]

i have not tested it this patch, i play rotten ^^

[warm marlin]

[hollow spear]

Does coup include the baseline eviscerate it's on top of in details/wcl or is that a separate instance?

[proven plover]

noo, I failed last add spawn rotation

on gally myth

[warm marlin]

hard boss no cap

[proven plover]

xd

[swift tinsel]

It did as of a few weeks ago

[runic sequoia]

Those don't even spawn for some people 😦

[alpine wraith]

it does consume finality

[quaint brook]

How can I as a sub rogue use my skills to survive ww3

[lilac stag]

wtf is wrong with your ilvl

[sick jackal]

Play pvp get 2.4k, if you survive ret/war you can survive a nuke

[sacred yarrow]

!mistakes

[wicked jolt]

Here are some common mistakes and how to spot them in your logs:

• Go into your log, press Timelines and Casts to the right like this
• Every single Flagellation & Blades window should look like the opener in this picture. Coup, shadowstrikes and eviscerates can move around a bit depending on procs, but all the other spells should be used exactly like this.
• Make sure you always get 8 globals off during your shadow dances. You can hover over your shadow dances to see the exact times they start, and then see if your 8th spell is within 8 seconds of that.
• If your shadow dance and/or symbols wasnt ready in time to be used like in the picture above you used too many in between your burst.

[hexed sluice]

Stealth past the guards, sap the manager, distract the teller, pickpocket the bank.and then sprint to the middle of nowhere and live off grid. Crimson vials should keep you fed.

[proven plover]

was unlucky with vaults & raid drops

I still have 6 crafted pieces

• hc jastor & eye

[inland tangle]

Hey all! So I've never played a rogue before and just recently rolled one. I chose subtlety and am really liking it, but I need to figure out if the limitations I'm experiencing are just due to being low level/bad stats or if there is really THIS much downtime where I am just out of energy and can't do much.

(I think I just hit lvl 25,)

[bright elk]

At lower levels I’m pretty sure all 3 rogue specs are going to feel a bit slow, till you get more talents and cooldown reduction stuff. Even at max level though sub had a decent amount of downtime outside of cooldowns where things slow down quite a bit.

Don’t worry too much about having downtime while leveling, and I’d say swap specs every now and again to get a feel for how assa and outlaw feel to play, you might end up enjoying one of those more

[fervent elm]

yeah rogue at low levels a lot of time you just gotta stand there

unless you're assassination since you get your energy regen talent at super low level

Venomous Wounds

lost the name for a second

[bright elk]

Idk how it is while leveling but outlaw has the least amount of downtime of all three specs at max

[inland tangle]

Okay, I'll power though then. It's just extra rough right now especially with the TW scaling.

[fervent elm]

yeah at max outlaw is least downtime for sure and while leveling assassination

[inland tangle]

I get like 2 hits in and then die

[fervent elm]

oh yeah timewalking scaling is rough for sure

yesterday i was leveling my millionth rogue through timewalking (its not a problem i can quit whenever i want) and we had this unholy dk in our group and we kicked him because he got one shot

i was the only guy who voted no

felt terrible

[inland tangle]

I haven't been kicked over it yet, but it is really sucky. I just like subtlety because it's like my monk main on steroids

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is an energy class and energy feels worse at lower levels than what a lot of classes do

[inland tangle]

LMAO im the same way with monks.

[lucid jackal]

It's not like "energy problems" go away for sub/sin at max level, they are features baked into the spec design

[inland tangle]

If they get lessened, I can deal.

[fervent elm]

at low levels as sub rogue in timewalking i feel like you're just a discount assassination where you just apply rupture and then try not to get one shot by all the DoTs by using fade and vanish

since you dont really have the energy to do anything else

once you get dance talents and relentless strikes you can start doing real damage

[inland tangle]

I'm still trying to get the hang of how to stay in stealth as long as possible. I need to set up my hotbars so that I can just use as many abilities that won't pull me out as possible, but the tooltips don't say which ones make me leave stealth.

[fervent elm]

idk what you mean

like everything pulls you out of stealth except Sap Distract Pickpocket

and why would you want to be staying in stealth anyway

[inland tangle]

sometimes backstab lets me stay in but other times it doesnt

[fervent elm]

oh yeah if you use a damaging ability on a mob and it dies sometimes you dont get unstealthed

you can see this easily if you go into an old dungeon and use shadowstrike, you can just teleport one shotting the mobs without ever getting unstealthed

or you can see the same thing by attacking a critter

[severe vapor]

echoing void fixed or ?

do i still run it anyways ? XD

[alpine wraith]

we havent ran echoid void ever

what makes you think we woud

[steel zinc]

Hey testing a bit the tierset imo would be worth to hold coup for big dance bursts (flag+blades) for 20 sec?

[silent ruin]

is trickster heavily reliant on shaman buff ?

[steel zinc]

Does coup work with finality?

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[hollow python]

Belt bis nerfed, corruption bis bugged, sub buff nerfed, next tier on ptr broken, nonexistent in big keys, mostly int'ing raid in mythic pre-buff if you didn't sit/respec... this kinda reminds me of bfa after the big nerf lol

[tepid trellis]

it does yeah

[steel zinc]

Ok thats big then I assume now this is just some napkin math that holding coup with the new tier is 100% worth when we go into big cds

I assume even 20 sec

[steel zinc]

the spec gameplay wise imo is fine. When we had the buggy 10% buff not 5% buff we were topping

[tepid trellis]

depends on how quick you actually get them back now with the new 2set

[steel zinc]

its kinda shit feels buggy but need to test more and log more

[hollow python]

Yeah its fun to play, and late enough in season to not matter mostly

[runic trail]

Daft question - Say that your cooldowns are coming up in like 25 seconds, sectec is up but you don't have the SD charges or symbols to use with it, is it worth sending just a naked sectec or just go with evis?

[steel zinc]

But the tierset is omega busted in big cds you can get nearly 3 coup into 5 sec

[tepid trellis]

if its gonna be up for burst

then yes

[runic trail]

(Its a situation I probably shouldn't find myself in but, I'm still getting better at managing time inbetween cooldowns)

[runic trail]

Cool, thank you!

[hollow python]

But I hit 3k io like 2ish weeks ago and there was like 250ish? Other sub rogues over 3k na, I think there were more evokers

[runic trail]

I'm still getting the feel for knowing exactly when to send SD/when to hold, but I'm hoping that'll just some with time.

[warm marlin]

how are you even testing it when it doesnt work

the 4p is non functional

[steel zinc]

it is working rn just the damage is not working

but the whole concept is working of coup still being up for 5 sec

[warm marlin]

you don't get the second coup at all

[steel zinc]

yeah

I know but

you have still 4 stacks of unseenblade

like if that works its busted

if it works if they fix it rn you have 4 stacks of unseenblade for 5 sec and then perma coup up

if they just add you can use coup a 2nd time its a boring set imo

[warm marlin]

you only get to coup one additional time

[steel zinc]

yeah thats what the tooltipp says but currently you just keep 4 unseenblade stacks for 5 sec

[warm marlin]

coup consumes 4 unseen blade stacks

[steel zinc]

I know

rn the tierset just keeps the 4 unseenblade stacks

[warm marlin]

yes, but only because its bugged to not let you coup

the outlaw tier is functional and does only give you one extra coup

and thats how the bug worked beforehand as well

[steel zinc]

Ok didnt test yet outlaw

[steel zinc]

sad so boring tierset

😭

would have been fun to have another 5 sec damage window inside your cds

[warm marlin]

meh I think its still going to be very fun

[steel zinc]

If we play more around it sure

I am happy that outlaw is now playable

[hollow spear]

It'll be for sure more fun than our current tier set

[steel zinc]

100%

[hazy breach]

Yes, the eviscerate is not seperate

So its included in the coup

[hazy breach]

On live the first hit consumes it, but the second hit grants it again

And If you have it up when you cast its applied to all casts

So every hit besides the first one on the non-finality is buffed

[warm marlin]

that doesn't seem to be what the buffs bar for this log suggests but I suppose it is a bit notorious for just lying

#subtlety message

[hazy breach]

Maybe theyve changed it back to just generating and consuming once per hit again for some reason

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1033875562797735977/1349014289515810836/image.png?ex=68595976&is=685807f6&hm=97aaa9c7713273e48da07b62b79b37c6df14677042477d9638655b809fe98ac7&

This is from early season 2

Cant say ive really checked since then

And im not gonna check anything now anyway because im on vacation without my computer

[paper mortar]

is 60min tricks bugged?

[sullen hare]

Yes and no

It still works but now there's no visual way of knowing it's working so you cast it and just pretend it's working

If you die from Aggro it means you didn't cast it and it's on you

Which is better than rogues running around with tricks auras in town

[serene notch]

Feel like there has been a massive drop off in keys running. Guess it’s that part of the season.

[steel zinc]

Standard. If your a raider you either raidlog or have your 6+ alt that has 8/8 cleared. If your main m+ your most likely pushing for title or do with x alts some kinda 0 to hero challange.

[fallow nimbus]

Doing my weekly key like a good noodle

I also need a mythic ring

[hollow spear]

I've got two crafted ones and the dungeon drops are barely an upgrade for me

[wild hornet]

On m gally, do you prefer to try and fit both sectecs on the technicians, or only the 2nd one? I feel like my pad is bigger when I send flag as soon as boss gets kicked at the beginning

Whenever I try to send flag right before the adds spawn I feel like me fitting both sectecs during the adds lifetime is inconsistent (fucking elem shamans)

[raw rover]

can anyone explain to me what the new buff was that made sub better than sin or outlaw in raid?

[wild hornet]

5% damage buff and temporary 10% damage buff bug

That I think has been fixed faster than any of the other rogue bugs

[raw rover]

lmao

they made sure to fix that one tho instantly

[plush roost]

gottem

[tribal blade]

butt clencher

[keen dome]

You had plenty of time. Could've fit at least two puns in there.

Extremely good job though, that rules.

[tribal blade]

oh you ran with gillick

he's a good warr, i met him in a previous season

[plush roost]

Yeah hes been tanking most of the season but his arms is actually cracked

So we scooped him up haha

[wild hornet]

Good job boss

If only I had a 5 man mythic team I wouldn't be crawling at 3k

[haughty mural]

How’s arms ST in m+ ?
I’ve rarely played with good ones this season

[tribal blade]

yeah iirc he always has insane parses every raid tier

i vaguely remember when i met him he was playing prot pally

and was super sad he wasn't able to play his warr

[plush roost]

Its pgood

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vZBMqGcpYCjFz9Wr?fight=15&type=damage-done&phase=3

The sub rogue diff

[tribal blade]

yeah sub rogue is insane on the last boss

[haughty mural]

Looks good

[plush roost]

We actually had some cursed uptime too cause boss kept spawning the circle inside the hammers

But yeah a good arms will do 2.3-2.5m st i find

More with eye stacked full on the rup

[tribal blade]

is it easy keeping kezan stacked in priory

[plush roost]

You lose about 3-4 stacks between bosses and trash but not really hard

[tribal blade]

that sounds pretty good

[haughty mural]

Might Level my warrior alt
Somehow I kinda want to play it now with all the arms talking

[plush roost]

You're gonna love tanks after 🙂 nothing like demolish missing cause tank erratically moves

[tribal blade]

demolish is pretty classic blizz taking something everyone hated and putting it into a class

i'm still confused about how they can be this out of touch sometimes

[haughty mural]

But it hits hard

Can you move while channeling it ?

[tribal blade]

i think they changed something about it recently, not sure

but for sure you couldn't before

[alpine wraith]

they put some dr

and called it a day

same as KS until now

[haughty mural]

Oh boy I’m going to love it

[raw dust]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[haughty rose]

are there some kind of statistics or graphs about how much more damage sub does now after the 5% buff compared to before the buffs?

[alpine wraith]

we had some days of 10% so that will break the data

[void ocean]

Why did u have to remind me, I just forgot about that 😢

Having double-buff on off-days

[haughty mural]

I wasn’t even able to abuse it

[void ocean]

same

we raid on Thursday

it was gone by then

[alpine wraith]

rip

i got some good logs because of it

but also this grind of getting logs again every 2 or 3 weeks

is so aaaaaaa

[hollow spear]

That's what peak sub rogue looks like

Quintessential sub rogue right there

[rocky ocean]

[vale pine]

nice

[hollow spear]

Cannot take credit for that, it's from Charrend's Rookery

What was the delay on coup again?

[alpine wraith]

1.2

[hollow spear]

I need to find a way to visualize the potential to get bamboozled by coup proccing my shadowcraft

[warm marlin]

a shadowcraft tracker does it for me

just need to be aware that if you're at 6 when you press coup you probably wait to not queue your next gcd and wait to react a bit

maybe be a bit more wary in lust as well (i once pressed coup at 2sht and procced to 10 before the gcd ended hehe)

[hollow spear]

My combo points currently turn purple at 7 sht stacks

maybe I have to implement an exception where they turn purple at 5 if I also have coup up

5 or 6 ig

with shadowcraft, you get 2 sht stacks per proc, so maybe 5

[proven plover]

I just Keep spamming evis/bp during coup

[hollow spear]

It's already annoying right now

and next season we get double the amount of coups

[proven plover]

True ig

[hollow spear]

need to be prepared 😄

[proven plover]

The LE Pack is very nice and has a SC counter

Maybe try playing with it

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[alpine wraith]

yea basically if you have 5 or even 4

might want to mash evis a bit

if it does not get points you just strike as normal

[warm marlin]

yea LE's sc counter is what I use I like it

[hollow spear]

I use base Devlin with a lot of changes that I've made myself

I like tracking dance and symbols with a bar rather than a symbol

[alpine wraith]

my sc is LE bar one

or have both of them too !

[hollow spear]

it shows them as text on the left and greys out combo points as well

[warm marlin]

zac ui on top

[hollow spear]

and if they gove above 7, they turn to purple

[hollow spear]

I made devlin look more like zac's ui

[runic trail]

It looks nice!

[hollow spear]

I run his UI but liked devlin better than his WA package

[runic trail]

I'm on luxthos but it just shows the shadowcraft CPS at the bottom, not noticed the coup issues yet

[hollow spear]

doesn't happen all too often

[proven plover]

It happens all the time lol

[hollow spear]

it's just that it feels quite ass when it does

[proven plover]

Imo it should only proc the refund on the start of coup

[hollow spear]

I'd argue that it just feels that way because the interaction is so poop

[proven plover]

And not on every Part of coup

[hollow spear]

I'd absolutely be lost with your UI, Hacha 😅

[alpine wraith]

it has been through the test of time

[sly shore]

That would make way too much sense okay

[silent ruin]

coup de grace should be like PA's dota skill with crit guarantee at 400%

[haughty mural]

I always thought a coup de grace as a finishing blow anyway…as in singular

[sly shore]

well they basically copied 2 spells

and combined the animations and function into one

[haughty mural]

ye

[lilac stag]

I heard you all liked DfA and the delay so what is it?!?!

[haughty mural]

Unforch

It’s not even about the delay

[lilac stag]

nah it’s about the spec having a hodge podge of shit causing random and intentional friction

[haughty mural]

Those multiple hits everywhere seem to brick things

friction for the sake of it

[lilac stag]

majority of which is what other specs would consider bugs we get to call gameplay

[haughty mural]

I mean coup with shadowed are 6!!!! hits

[keen dome]

Just give us the one big hit, blizz

[sly shore]

How hard do you reckon it would be for blizz to just write new spells

that function

[haughty mural]

They copied the wrong spell

[lilac stag]

with 20 year old stealth code? Impossible

[haughty mural]

Should have just copied Evis

[sly shore]

ur so real for this

[lilac stag]

frfr

[haughty mural]

thanks

now hire me

[keen dome]

I bet they tried, found it couldn't interact properly with something, and ended up doing some dumb workaround instead of just.. reworking the other thing

Maybe it'll turn ou Sub is just the most gnarly coded spec

Maybe all the comments are in haiku's or like, latin.

[lilac stag]

I swear bliz treats coding for sub rogue like web devs trying to make website cross browser compatible back in 2001

[iron roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

I'd love to see how Sub is setup.

[lilac stag]

You think you do

You really don’t

[haughty mural]

I bet it really is horrible

[keen dome]

I do!

[haughty mural]

Else can’t why things always work for outlaw and not for sub

[keen dome]

I'd barely understand it, so it'd be fine.

[haughty mural]

Even if they are the same thing

Like new 4piece

Or flurry

[lilac stag]

at some point they need to rip the bandaid off and start with a clean slate for stealth interactions.

[keen dome]

What if the problem is it having to interact with Shadow Dance lmao

[lilac stag]

Who had time for that

[keen dome]

100%

[warm marlin]

well the 4p was originally a bug earlier this tier that allowed you to recast coup as outlaw specifically because you lost the 4 unseen blade stacks 1s after casting coup, and outlaw obviously only has a 0.8s gcd

[keen dome]

Put in more effort now to require less effort later.

[warm marlin]

I imagine that's why the 4p works for outlaw now and not sub since they literally just implemented the bug again

[lilac stag]

effort for an unplayed class

none the less. we’re fucked. Hope the gameplay turns out fun

[keen dome]

Hey, Druid has stealth too.

(Wherein they rework Stealth but forget about rogue)

[lilac stag]

That’s like saying shadowmeld is stealth

[keen dome]

Well, it's a stealth...

One of the... dozens.

[lilac stag]

so is camo

[keen dome]

Precisely!

[lilac stag]

none of which interact the way rogue does

[haughty mural]

wanna bet how long it’s gonna take to make it work on ptr so we could actually just test things?

[runic trail]

Working stealth would be nice, at least the god-damn belt effect is changing so charged bolts won't randomly knock me out of stealth

[lilac stag]

A week before launch

[haughty mural]

Yea would be mine too

[runic trail]

1 week from now. Gonna be optimistic.

[sly shore]

at this point I don't care about ptr cos I did the full questing shit on there

no other changes to test

[haughty mural]

Based

[sly shore]

someone in voice last night asked me

"what changes has rogue gotten on ptr"

[keen dome]

Just tell people that outlaw got Power Word: Guns

[lilac stag]

killing spree

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

which honestly is perfect.

I hope to hell it’s an outlaw tier

[runic trail]

Killing spree change is nice, doesn't effect me but I'm happy that outlaw people got that

[lilac stag]

I want to watch this discord burn

[haughty mural]

Cba farming haste gear now

[keen dome]

If it's an outlaw tier that'd be cool

they can have a tier as a treat

[sly shore]

just one crumb of a tier

[keen dome]

But also I'm gonna play Sub anyway.

[sly shore]

idk if I even play rogue this tier atm

[void hound]

outlaw tier would be fun, but i also take a amidrassil sub tier

[sly shore]

there's a possibility I end up as devoker

[runic trail]

[haughty mural]

There is a possibility i end up as ww

[sly shore]

look at this powerful creature

[void hound]

there is a possibility i end up as havoc

[runic trail]

I'm still playing rogue it's fine, I'll make it work probably

[haughty mural]

[keen dome]

seen worse

[haughty mural]

All leaving

[void hound]

playing other classes opens your eyes how badly rogue is designed its actually kind of unreal

[sly shore]

I can play evoker just okay too

[keen dome]

this is why you never play anuthing else

[void hound]

playing havoc i feel like a caveman seeing fire for the first time

[keen dome]

hell yeah, blasting

[runic trail]

All leaving as soon as I go, 'i might try sub this tier', I FUCKING SEE HOW IT IS

[sly shore]

I am happy with my progress on evoker

[keen dome]

Post your OAB burst

[keen dome]

Glorious

It's so funny

[sly shore]

both engulfs crit

[keen dome]

Just the funniest mega burst

[haughty mural]

Ah no wonder those guys die before i ramped my burst

[keen dome]

Dev's just obliterate them

[sly shore]

they aren't in logs either

those reel assistants

that's with them unfiltered

[keen dome]

It's just utter comedy whenever I see it. Just MASSIVE burst.

It's 'cos it's all front loaded, right?

[sly shore]

yeah

first 5s

But they do kinda retain their high dps for entire cd

[haughty mural]

Looks cool

[sly shore]

end of cd was doing 5.7M

38s in to fight

sprocket for example

[runic trail]

The dev in my guild also goes absolutely ham on pull, the numbers are wild

[sly shore]

it's like 4 buttons

dragonrage > shattering star > fire breath + instant cast > 2x engulf

[runic trail]

How does it feel to play overall?

[sly shore]

it's good fun

and the min max is good

[runic trail]

I keep thinking about trying a season not on rogue, but I get attached to characters and my rogue is my boy.

[haughty mural]

Desintegrate

Wasn’t that all they press in df ?

[sly shore]

no idea

next patch is desintegrate on crack

[keen dome]

I hate dragon form so I can't bring myself to play one

they look so dumb on the login screen, aaaa.

[sly shore]

scalecommander gives 5 mass disentegrate instead of 3 targets

and you summon the boys

who also do it

[keen dome]

lmao that is REALLY good

[lilac stag]

imagine having spell visuals

Weird

[sly shore]

goes hard af

[haughty mural]

[runic trail]

Now make a pentagram

Become a warlock

[lilac stag]

now make a penis

[runic trail]

TRUE

the possibilities are endless

[keen dome]

any time a game lets me draw I will make a penis

[crystal bone]

at first glance it looked like one of those puzzles u have to solve the lines not crossing

[sly shore]

[haughty mural]

Atleast their pets seem to function

[runic trail]

It's like the freemason logo

[haughty mural]

Or do they fall of a cliff aswell ?

[warm marlin]

could be doing more on sub smh

[crystal bone]

[sly shore]

[warm marlin]

unlucko

mm highroll cheat

[haughty mural]

Just crit

[lilac stag]

Coulda done more with TFD talented

[keen dome]

Swapblast your foe off the platform, or down the hole. Become DPS king.

[vale pine]

kamehamehaaa

[warm marlin]

pig devs down

[sly shore]

HE CRIT

Oh wait mine was -3% dps too

can bump it up a smidgen

[warm marlin]

tfd also

[haughty mural]

Is the tfd opener added in the wowhead guide ?
I’ve read some people asking

[warm marlin]

it's essentially the same thing you just move your 2nd dance 4 globals later

[sly shore]

pretty sure tfd is a loss/within margin over 4m for me anyway

equal on 3m

better on 3m, even

[warm marlin]

was like 0.1% even on 5mins for me

i think adding in predisorienting makes it better

predisorienting/presymbols maybe since you delay rupture reapplication

[swift tinsel]

was messing around a bit and if you hoc/lily on pull, netherprism at 30sec and hoc/lily 2nd flag netherprism hits 15 stacks a couple seconds before 3min flag is ready

[warm marlin]

i was thinking maybe double on use but then ur inting your spymaster window

[swift tinsel]

I'm personally leaning more towards execute trinket+spymaster but wanted to see how timings with double on-use worked out and its actually quite tidy

but yeah essentially having a dead trinket for 3mins doesn't sound great but if the damage at 3mins is worth it then that's kinda cool

but

[haughty mural]

It does dmg for 3 minutes

[swift tinsel]

the damage from prism makes it less dead

yeah

[haughty mural]

Isn’t the proc really strong ?

[swift tinsel]

its usually 3-5% of my st overall

[haughty mural]

It’s essentially razor coral-ish ?

[swift tinsel]

I didn't play with coral so I'm unsure