subtlety

[lilac stag]

killing spree is shit. And you press it every 15 seconds

[round latch]

also deathlog parsing

pirate needs a change

[lilac stag]

Vanish with the mace is fun though

[surreal trellis]

why is assa always good

i stg

[round latch]

because it takes less effort and performs similar with much less risk

also suffers less from downtime

pirate literally does 0 dmg with no uptime

bleeds keep rolling

[tepid trellis]

has a very nicely designed talent tree and blizzard loves making assa good

[lilac stag]

and it has the most complete disc talent tree

[surreal trellis]

lol

[round latch]

pirate doesnt worth the effort

all there is to it

[short radish]

it also allows you to stretch your hands and wrists so you dont develop any further injuries

sub is truly the ultimate boomer spec

[tepid trellis]

yet assa is even slower in raid

[surreal trellis]

sounds aids

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/teamwork-gif-11937128885494742584

Team we’ve killed the purple dreams of another player.

[round latch]

u can watch netfflix while raiding as assa

[short radish]

[surreal trellis]

play osrs while raiding

[surreal trellis]

whats the purple dreams

[lilac stag]

Your ninja dream

[surreal trellis]

bro why tho

[round latch]

i dont rly raid this time around but used to pet my dog

all the time

[surreal trellis]

do sub one tricks not like the ninja dream

maybe i just play survival hunter

that rework was gassssssssssss

[tepid trellis]

sub is about as ninja themed as a rock

scraping the minimum

[surreal trellis]

shadowstrike bro

[tepid trellis]

yeh wow

such ninja thematics

the downward strike

[round latch]

shuriken storm

[surreal trellis]

shadow dance

shuriken storm

black powder

[round latch]

vanish

[surreal trellis]

how is it not a ninja theme

[round latch]

kekw

[tepid trellis]

yet none of those have any ninja animations

[surreal trellis]

shadow dance makes u go purple ?

shuriken storm is literally naruto shit

[exotic kelp]

No shot you said black powder

The most pirate sounding thing ever

[surreal trellis]

well u press it after shuriken storm

symbols of death

[exotic kelp]

And it's not thematically fitting in the slightest

[surreal trellis]

whats the theme of sub if not ninja?

secret technique is literally shadow clone jutsu

[tepid trellis]

is it now that we burst the bubble of ninjas not actually using shurikens historically

[exotic kelp]

Its not ninja, that's all I know.

[surreal trellis]

i didnt ask for a history lesson

it's a game

i'm basing it off naruto

[exotic kelp]

Generic shadow rogue guy feels more apt.

[round latch]

was under the impression they did

[tepid trellis]

id probably more call sub a shadow assassin

[tepid trellis]

they did not, its an absoluteky horrible weapon

[lilac stag]

Last I checked nunchakus are mace weapons and we need daggers.

[surreal trellis]

call sub anything but a ninja challenge:

[exotic kelp]

Why are you so pressed on this Lol

[round latch]

i mean u are closest to any of us to that region/culture cant argue i dont know

[tepid trellis]

or that ninja's used short swords

[exotic kelp]

Sub doesn't have smoke bomb, check mate

(pvp doesn't count)

[tepid trellis]

bro i wished they would fully lean into it, throw in some ninjutsu shit im all for it

[exotic kelp]

They'd need to steal transcendence from monk

And have the like, wood log spawn when they switch

[surreal trellis]

make secret technique throw the shadow clone jutsu sign

[tepid trellis]

how about giving it an animation period?

[lilac stag]

sub is literally a sub rogue. Bottom tier animations.

[exotic kelp]

I'm just praying for flashier more distinct visuals for sub.

[surreal trellis]

yeah and actual shadow clones that i can see

[lilac stag]

Fuck dem clones

[tepid trellis]

cant see them cuz they are busy falling down into the hole on first boss rookery

[surreal trellis]

does that happen

[lilac stag]

Yes

[surreal trellis]

thats based

[lilac stag]

Just make us kyveza

Redesign complete

[surreal trellis]

too bad the redesign just happened

[lilac stag]

Haha

[surreal trellis]

maybe in wow 2

[lilac stag]

10.2 was ages ago

And they only did 1/4 of it

[surreal trellis]

true i havent played since then

[tepid trellis]

samurais used them more

but not really as an actual weapon, more so for distracting dumbasses

[lilac stag]

Should have stayed away

Rogue is shit

[surreal trellis]

you've convinced me

im already leveling my hunter

[lilac stag]

Mage

SV sucks in keys

[surreal trellis]

nah i dont play caster s

ill play bm then

or mm

[tepid trellis]

firemage then

they dont really cast

[lilac stag]

Mm is a caster

[tepid trellis]

MM casts more

[lilac stag]

lol

[surreal trellis]

i hate mage

[lilac stag]

The mental gymnastics are fantastic. I love it.

[surreal trellis]

any excuse not to play it

[lilac stag]

Fair

[tepid trellis]

fair

[lilac stag]

all three hunters specs are better designed than all of rogue put together

but sub is fun (and irritating at the same time)

[wispy bolt]

i cant time my last two 16s (work and flood) cause no pug group can successfully skip anything

so sad

[rocky ocean]

trickster has smoke bomb

[vale pine]

ill take a look, might be a issue with icons.
It does not matter as much which passive/second option you use as they are all very close.
Best is to use a sim for your gear to decide

[vale pine]

+1 i wish we had a consistent theme

[serene notch]

first 15 down :3

im trolling no pots or head enchant

[dry plank]

Gratz

[vale pine]

congrats!

[serene notch]

thx, most fun i have had in i cant even remember

[short radish]

noice work lad

[dry plank]

After motherload 15 yday one hunter ask me to teach him my secret technique. At first I didn’t get it BUT then …. xD

[tulip gorge]

so what is the verdict on sub after 1 week, is it back?

[haughty mural]

Never have been gone

[vale pine]

its not as good as assassiantion, but playable

the additional 5% would have made it more competitive, but that wasn't the goal of the buffs

[tulip gorge]

unlucky

[vale pine]

its off season and everyone has enough item level to play whatever is in the game in all content types

so balance is less relevant

[plush roost]

I actually am wondering if this is a blizzard mindset, like we're months into the patch why not buff up the classes underperforming in m+ specifically and retune for next tier if required

Like I'd love to have fury and sub in the same key without it being grief (at a high m+ level)

Or for bear tank to do more damage

Like is it going to break raid for them to go, prot paladin damage increased by 3%, guardian 5%

[vale pine]

tuning is inconsistent

certain specs/classes will get buffed if they unerperform even if they beat other options which prior ended up better

for subtlety its the opposite, blizz is happy to keep us low

[plush roost]

But why?

Why would blizzard be happy to have a spec tuned low

They already balance seperately for pvp so they can't say its "antifun" to play against

[vale pine]

i don't think its intentional, but there is always a certain bias you indirectly enforce

[plush roost]

I mean i get burst is scary to balance around but if its such an issue then why have burst specs in the game at all

[vale pine]

think of it yourself, reguardless how objective you are

you will still have a favorite

so you want this one to be good

[plush roost]

Idk I'd like a majority to be equal

[vale pine]

means you are more likely to invest time and ressources to do this

[plush roost]

But maybe thats me in my own developer mind

[vale pine]

instead of working on something thats less interessting for you

i share your opinion

[plush roost]

But surely we can look at analytics and pull a lever or 2 on % dps at the very least no?

[vale pine]

they did look at statistics

and decided on this

they decided to buff everything thats underperforming and leave one statistically noticable outliner untouched

we only saw a minor buff after the wowhead article

which is concerning

and the buff was not to make sub competitive, just not that far off

if you watch ion's talk

they also are convinced that the statistics are wrong

and the lower amount of players opt for at least 5-6% dps

so buffing subtlety should, at least if we go by this logic

mean subtlety is suddenly the best rogue spec

[plush roost]

Yeah i get that when a spec is buffed and all the good players come statistics are skewed

But surely you just counter correct that. Is it that hard to keep an eye on balance every 2 weeks?

Riot games does it

[vale pine]

riot has a very diffrent approach to tuning

blizz is happy if you only play assassiantion for 4 years in raiding

which was the case in legion and bfa

[plush roost]

Yeah it just sucks ig

Blizzard should do better imo

[vale pine]

their approach is diffrent

they do release a patch

then do a initial tuning phase

wait a bit, maybe fix extreme outliners

do a 2nd tuning patch and thats often all to it

tuning most of the time after that happens around the bigger patches like 0.5

[plush roost]

Mhm, I just think that its a bad approach.

[vale pine]

also mythic+ is not tuned in general

most of the tuning is targeted at raiding

[steep raven]

Can someone link the wowhead article for sub, can't find it

[plush roost]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps

[steep raven]

No, not the guide

[vale pine]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/subtlety-rogue-mid-expansion-retrospective-hero-talents-current-issues-and-376832

[plush roost]

Oh the retrospec

[vale pine]

yes

[steep raven]

Thanks!

[plush roost]

Silly me

[vale pine]

but to give a bit of a benefit to blizz

[plush roost]

Yeah idk maybe I'm just too spoiled by playing league for 15 years

[vale pine]

buffing subtlety means its not 8% behind but only like 3-4%

so the gap between specs is actually lower

and you can justify playing it more

[plush roost]

Yeah thats a nice thing about it, but i just dont understand why its a fullstop there

Why not get within 1%

[surreal trellis]

all the good game devs just go to riot games bro

[vale pine]

we will see in the comming weeks if players care, i think mos won't

[surreal trellis]

dont expect anything from blizz

C tier devs

[vale pine]

i mean the game is big

and rogue is always depening on what spec is tuned the best

so play rate will nearly 1:1 reflect that

if specs are very close

we see a spread between specs more equally

like in shadowland season 2

and we are happy to get buffed

so nothing to complain about

[plush roost]

Ofc were happy to be buffed, i just think they should buff the spec, and all other underperforming specs, again till its within a % of others

Its not like im asking for a class rework of everything, just number adjustments

[surreal trellis]

its too much logic for blizzard bro

[plush roost]

And number adjustments are very doable, look what they did for assa by buffing mut and ambush

[surreal trellis]

they would rather spend their dev time on more ways to incorporate gacha into the game

[vale pine]

i mean thats the thing, we are within % of others

we arn't that far behind anymore

wcl statistics is just missleading because of the 10% buff

so we need to wait 2 weeks before we get a estimate of subtleties standing

[plush roost]

Yeah im happy to wait a few weeks but given blizzard tuning track record i dont expect any form of changes

[vale pine]

the enviroment also changes a bit

fights will just go shorter

which means subtlety maybe without buffs will at least in the top logs perform better

but also depends on how fast bosses die

can go either way subtlety or assassiantion

[plush roost]

Ig the disconnect for me is that they dont balance m+

And only tune raid

Which is just incorrect imo

They should 100% look to tune more towards m+ towards the backend of a season.

But I doubt that will happen so its just complaints to the wind i suppose

[vale pine]

it is because the majority of keys is run on levels it does not matter

let me explain what i mean

wowhead now has this nice statistic posts

https://www.wowhead.com/news/turbo-boost-craze-dies-down-tww-season-2-mythic-rankings-week-12-377074?utm_source=discord-webhook

and if you look at the breakdown

you see, the majority of keys is run on 10-12

[plush roost]

But it actually does because balancing around high end m+ means people see a meta and the non-meta specs aren't invited regardless. If the topend of m+ is a less defined meta due to good tuning then more people get invited and incentive to play m+ grows for your userbase

[vale pine]

and you can play whatever in this range, it makes no diffrence

[vale pine]

this is absolutely true

but they cut corners

[plush roost]

Yeah and that's my complaint, corner cutting in one of your flagship titles with something as simple as number adjustments is criminal

[vale pine]

they don't have the dev power to do tuning especially with complex systems like talent trees and hero talents on top of everything else

remember that we are 3 years+ in the new talent system

[surreal trellis]

riot does it

with items

[vale pine]

and the diffrence between specs in terms of choice and options can highly vary

[surreal trellis]

item combinations are heaps complex in league

[vale pine]

some specs like subtlety have no real build option

and others like assassiantion can build in 10+ diffrent ways

just for rogue, and only one example

its all of the place between specs

some will ultimatively see more dev time and as a result have more options or are more up to date with modern standards

[fringe palm]

Mostly because it's all feelycraft. If wow was feelycraft only you'd also have variety

[vale pine]

the system is too big to make distribution fair

so it ends with "winners" and "losers" if you want to think of it like that

[surreal trellis]

anyways they cant even ship patches without bugs during their main questlines

they're pumping out slop

[fringe palm]

Most of the time league has 2-3 set core items and rest is situational

[surreal trellis]

dont expect tuning to make sense

[vale pine]

i mean thats a diffrent topic

a majority of the bugs are a consequence of wow being a seemingly inconsistently maintained 20+ year old codbase

what you can complain is, the very same bugs and issues repeating

[surreal trellis]

and all the devs using chatgpt

[vale pine]

which i can't rly find a reason for^^

[vale pine]

nope

i don't think chatgpt or similar is used much in general

[surreal trellis]

yes it is

in software engineering

[vale pine]

if you use it for coding, its mostly to just get ideas of failures

[surreal trellis]

heavily used

[vale pine]

generating code is not good with current gen llm's

many companies currently learn this the hard way

[surreal trellis]

im not saying they're vibe coding all their shit

[vale pine]

you see hireing increase in many of the fields as a result of using gpt for short term benefits

[surreal trellis]

but they're probably just producing a shit load of slop like every other company who writes code rn

[vale pine]

now they sit on unmaintainable code full of bugs, regressions and other problems

[plush roost]

Well anyway i gotta run, but can we just do

Shuriken Storm- Damage increased 100%, now refunds 1 energy per target hit up to 10. Thank you 🤔

[vale pine]

haha^^

[fringe palm]

St shuriken storm

[vale pine]

they could just reduce the energy cost of storm again

which was increased in DF for no real reason ^^

[warm marlin]

@vale pine I believe you said at one point that doing a cold blood dance between flag windows vs. casting dance on cd with a raw sectec (the way the current APL does) was about equal. do you happen to have a copy of the APL you used to test the cold blood version? im trying to test some stuff and the triggers for cd usage are rather intertwined

[vale pine]

its like this

you could in theory use cold blood once between the 1 min 30 windows

because 45 sec cd

and 1 min 30 is exactly double that

the problem is, things are not perfectly aligned in actual play

so it can happen that you set up for the secret cast, and still don't have cold blood up

so technically, it would mean you get an additional cold blood cast if done propperly

but its too rigit to perform reliably in play and even in the sim

which means, you can attempt it, but its just better/easier to use it only with your big cds

[warm marlin]

yes, you have to hold flag for a second or two to be safe. pressing flag with 12s left on cold blood's cd has never caused me to miss the cold blood sectec while any value higher has a chance to depending on sht procs

in practice this means your second flag might be at 1:32 or 1:33 instead

which usually won't result in missing a cast

[vale pine]

ye probably, slight delays can be fine in actual play

if kill timers allow for it

[warm marlin]

I was just curious to see if there was any damage loss or gain from doing so along with a couple other feelcraft things but making the robot play in such a way is a bit difficult

[vale pine]

i mean ideally

you get one extra cold blood

so its even if a very minor

better to have more casts ^^

[haughty rose]

Is it generally better to use the first supercharged CP for sec tec or hit SOD on ~12 sec CD remaining and use the first one for evis?

Or does it not matter at all?

[haughty mural]

Out of cds ?

[graceful crown]

first pools of rockery are horrendous with sub right? xd

[haughty rose]

both actually. right now i hold dance and sod until sectec is on <12s CD then usual rotation dance+sod>backstab>evisc>ST>sectec

and i wonder if it's better to press dance+sod when sec tec is off CD already

during CD's it basically always lines up that sec tec is off CD already and it's the first spender i use with supercharged CP

[spare garnet]

I dont have issues there.

[remote shuttle]

About 5% buff (or 5+5% bugged) i'm still noticing an overall increase of dps in m+ (12 to 15) of about 8 to /12 % overall damage (log wise) respect all my previous m+ in this season prebuff...

I know they fixed the double 5% bug, but numbers to me speak different idk

[tidal chasm]

As other people get better gear + the 5% buff, pack killtime goes down which influences our damage massively

[vale pine]

the buff was roughly 4.5%

because trinkets and other things don't get buffed

instead of ~9% initially

[remote shuttle]

Still i'm noticing an effective buff to dps in m+ greater than 5% idk why, in raid st is like a 5%

Idk if depends on big packs or what but my best cinder was 3.9 M dps yesterday i timed another cinder at 4.7M

(3.9 was my best cinder in all 40+ seasonal runs)

And this for all m+ i timed this weekend, did all 8 dungeons and rised up best dps run by a 8/10% for all the dungeons

[graceful crown]

TFD gets bugged a lot of times

ugh

even if i wait in stealth

ill go with weaponmaster for the meanwhile idk

[void ocean]

just run away 😄

with new packs u can just stand a bit away, but boss fight restarts timer

[barren wolf]

bcs the spec got buffed, people have more incentive to play it -> people play it better, more optimized, better groups etc -> higher dps

its just how it works

[hollow spear]

he's talking about his own damage though

might just be turbo boost and dinars

because we objectively didn't get buffed by more than the 4. something %

[tulip gorge]

the buff came at the same time as the greater head enchant

that might be it

[graceful crown]

i was trying +10 to analyze my rotations and all, and i was shit, pull got bursted in 10s and i lost like half of my burst time or more everytime

everyone 680+ guess thats all

[lilac stag]

It goes from losing half of flag to 1/4 of flag as they go up.

[graceful crown]

hope so

gonna try a 12

[tribal blade]

it's impossible to test dps in a 10

you have a spec like arcane mage in a 10 and they're useless because everything dies before their touch can pop off

i've been doing on and off stuff with a HoF mage friend who got title last season, and he was completely useless in every 10-12 we did farming gear

but we did a 17 together and he's suddenly doing competitive dps

[hollow spear]

You can still get an idea if you're shitting the bed rotationally, even in a 10

if you end up sub 3 mio dps, you must be doing something wrong

[lilac stag]

we had the convo about 6 hours ago. Be more aggressive with cds.

you start seeing what mob health is actually at and adjust

[hollow spear]

6 hours ago, the only thing I had a conversation with was my mattress 😄

I've seen screenshots here lately with somewhere between 2 and 2,5 mio dps

[tribal blade]

true

[lilac stag]

More for Mirranda

[tribal blade]

but i think some specs are not gonna be able to do competitive dps on a 10

[lilac stag]

everyone gets their CDs fucked with

So it should level out

Unless you don’t have CDs

[hollow spear]

[tribal blade]

haha bleed build in a 10

literally can just not press DM on trash

and be topping overall

[hollow spear]

it's getting hard to snipe 35% though

mobs just disappear

have to adapt and press shiv earlier

[graceful crown]

couldnt do anythin with a ret pala and mm hunter doind 15M in everypull i couldnt even lineup my cds

on bosses ez

diff

[lilac stag]

We did a 10 ToP. I hadn’t run a key as sub in a good month. It was fine.

[hollow spear]

idk, I ran with a ret and an ele shammy and was doing well

and I am doing mostly 10s and 11s for weekly

[lilac stag]

Stop trying to get perfect flag windows on trash. Get more dances out.

[tribal blade]

i run iron wire with bleed build

[graceful crown]

alright, gonna try this

[tribal blade]

because i think that's the true power of running bleed tbh

[graceful crown]

is it ok to have 1 dance and a half and then go for flag and shadowblades?

[lilac stag]

Go back about 6 hours in here. Myself Stealthi and a couple others had this exact convo

[tribal blade]

30 secs remaining on your 2nd dance charge is fine yeah

[graceful crown]

perfect

[lilac stag]

you’ll see the math of how bad holding is

[tribal blade]

yeah holding cds as sub is turbo bad

[graceful crown]

i mained outlaw doing 17-16 and im having difficulties with sub, its completely different

[tribal blade]

unless you're holding for a huge dmg amp

[graceful crown]

i need to learn a lot haha

[tribal blade]

or like a lot of adds spawning on something

[short radish]

remember, the entire dungeon is one big boss

[lilac stag]

just takes time

[short radish]

you hold 30 seconds here

and then its 30 seconds again

do it one more time youve lost a cast

[tribal blade]

but also don't send cds right as a pack is dying

[graceful crown]

yeah im not doing that :p

thanks for tips

[sweet epoch]

when did we get unbuffed, do we know?

[hollow spear]

last Wednesday

[graceful crown]

i was blasting a +12 but tank died wiped and left

-_-

[hollow spear]

but we didn't get unbuffed

[sweet epoch]

so we've been buffed and nerfed back to 5% last week?

wasn't it 10% mistakenly?

[lilac stag]

@graceful crown start here. You’ll notice when it goes off topic as we talk NInjas #subtlety message

[hollow spear]

yes, they messed up and doubled the buff

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna tell you the real secret to learning how to use cds: literally press everything on cd in a dungeon as you're learning until you notice when it's a problem

and then make a mental note and prepare for those exact moments

[sweet epoch]

do we know if they lowered it? im just trying to see if my logs were mega skewed

[graceful crown]

isnt it more difficult with pugs? you need to adapt to different routes and pulls of tanks

[lilac stag]

It was hotfixed 30 hours later

[tribal blade]

yeah that's why unless you have the MDT of the tank

[graceful crown]

i guess i just need experience :p

[tribal blade]

don't try to read their mind and plan cds around that

[graceful crown]

alright

thank you

[lilac stag]

This is what makes outlaw and assa ez in keys

No thinking needed

[tribal blade]

it's bad to do that because pug tanks in a 10-12 sometimes do the most obscurely idiotic route decisions haha

[graceful crown]

yeah outlaw procs and all can be difficult for apm and that, but is the same all the time

[tribal blade]

so if you plan your cds around what you think they SHOULD be doing

[graceful crown]

sub is another world

[tribal blade]

you can be holding a long ass time

[lilac stag]

this is why I think a lot quit it after 2-3 weeks.

They’re used to the other two rogues specs

And brain off for the most part

[graceful crown]

yep the pull and chains pulls

with outlaw thats so easy

[tribal blade]

i once knew a hunter who in workshop (during SL) held her 2 min cd for the entire 1st phase of the last boss

[lilac stag]

it is satisfying when you get the groove going

[tribal blade]

because she wanted it up for the 2nd phase

[graceful crown]

haha

[tribal blade]

and the first phase of the boss is a long time

maybe she wouldn't have gotten her cds up exactly as lust happened, but they would have overlapped

[lilac stag]

I would send cds on the last pack in pugs because no one else ever did

[tribal blade]

haha nice

[lilac stag]

and that shit still hurt

[tribal blade]

but that's the most common mistake i see people doing in keys

is overthinking cd usage

(in lower keys)

[graceful crown]

im trying a 14 now work too, lets see how it goes

i think that my most common mistake is trying to lineup cds

[tribal blade]

gl!

[graceful crown]

instead using dances

[lilac stag]

Even there I think your trash maybe last 20 seconds.

[tribal blade]

that's a good problem to have as sub

[lilac stag]

Send flag first if you need to

[tribal blade]

abuse your feint/evasion/cloak on the 1st pull to max uptime

beause that first pull is chaotic for melee

[graceful crown]

yeah i wait like 4s or so to flag into shadowblades

[lilac stag]

experiment with just sending once you see if it’s still getting killed too quickly

actual bosses you’re fine waiting

[graceful crown]

alright lets see then

[graceful crown]

work 14

[lilac stag]

sweet

[graceful crown]

evoker died 5 times xd

i dont know in WORK u dont use BP a lot, right?

[lilac stag]

barely ever

[graceful crown]

i used it like 23 times

[lilac stag]

Depends on pills

[graceful crown]

230 evis

im starting to hate this on sub, gonna buy HoC HC tomorrow with dinnars xD

[ivory laurel]

Trickster vs Deathstalker while gearing and doing M+?

[lilac stag]

we only run trickster.

[warm marlin]

if you talent deathstalker ever the secret police will find you

[ivory laurel]

xd

thanks

[bleak night]

gigachads play deathstalker

dont let them keep you down

[haughty mural]

You either play hoc or pvp badge as sub as your main active

It’s not hoc vs vexxie trinket

It’s more like hoc + vexxie vs whatever else trinket

[tribal blade]

gigchad sin rogues* 😉

[empty cargo]

I’ve been running honey buzzer & energy drink for m+, sounds like I should swap honey buzzer with cards

[bleak night]

nah gigachad sin rogues play fatebound

[tribal blade]

i can't win

[tribal blade]

get hoc asap

sub requires 1 on use trinket that lines up with cds

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/princess-bride-gif-5023039

[empty cargo]

Good, I’m tired of lining up buzzer with big groups. Having HoC macroed to flag is way easier

[fallow nimbus]

To blades

[empty cargo]

That’s what I meant

[fallow nimbus]

Hoc is 15sec, blades is 16

[lilac stag]

Why does my cold blood not work on sub?

[void ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/ayy-sea-turtles-pirates-of-the-caribbean-gif-2813627054324826566

[bleak night]

https://tenor.com/view/that-smell-a-kind-of-smelly-smell-a-smelly-smell-that-smells-smelly-mr-krabs-spongebob-squarepants-gif-17867170

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/pirates-part-of-the-crew-part-of-the-ship-pirates-of-the-caribbean-captain-jack-sparrow-gif-16340359

[vale pine]

unlucky

[graceful crown]

blackpowder hits harder than i thought

sadly it doesnt funnel a shit if required :p

[haughty mural]

Which funnel? (:

[ivory laurel]

Anyo ne can help me out a bit with my keybinds (suggestions)? :3

[hazy breach]

Have spells you use often on easy to access buttons and spells you use more seldom on buttons that harder to reach/more uncomfortable

[haughty mural]

I seem to have missed that and I thought I knew my shit

[short radish]

yeah use function keys they are great

also alt+p is a 10/10 bind

[lilac stag]

Wrong spec for funnel

[ivory laurel]

I'm totally new to Sub and played outlaw before tis, any advice on stuff I'm missing? I know I'm missing the Primary AOE ability and not sure what to put it on, do u use it a lot? I tend to like my Builders on 1 and 3 from outlaw.

keybinds wise ^^

[lilac stag]

Shuriken Storm?

[ivory laurel]

Yah, what do u think i should put iit on? :3

[lilac stag]

Your binds mate

You do you

[ivory laurel]

Do u spam it in M+ more then Backstab?

[swift tinsel]

you alternate casts between that and whatever finisher is appropriate, so something comfy

[ivory laurel]

What ab Backstab? Is it used a lot in AOE?

sorry for the totally noob questions

[swift tinsel]

if you play trickster its used occasionally in aoe

nah you're fine, no need to apologize

its your main st builder outside of dance though

[ivory laurel]

So, on uh Outlaw I put Sinister Strike on 1 as my builder whiich I constantly spam. Would the equivalent then be Shuriken Storm on 1?

[swift tinsel]

I'd say backstab is closer

[short radish]

i accept your apology

[ivory laurel]

thanks

[short radish]

you are forgiven

go in peace

also

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

check the wowhead guide

[ivory laurel]

oh cool

[short radish]

you could probably replace sinister strike with shadowstrike

[swift tinsel]

Sinister strike is a bit unique in that its a builder in st or aoe bc of flurry, sub doesn't quite have the same

[short radish]

and pistol shot with backstab

and dont bother binding shuriken toss

you do press backstab more

but it matters less

[swift tinsel]

yeah its pretty much just to maintain flawless form (from trickster tree) in aoe

[short radish]

if you are used to spaming 1

then you want to be still used to do that when it matters

[ivory laurel]

So when is Shadowstrike usually used?

both AOE & ST to build?

[swift tinsel]

in shadow dance

always

[short radish]

when you are doing damage

[swift tinsel]

only builder

unless you play the talent The Rotten, then there's a single shuriken storm cast to consume the 2nd stack of the buff

bc of a bug, it has to be used with the 2nd or it consumes both

[lilac stag]

and it doenst always send FW

[short radish]

I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC I LOVE THIS SPEC

[lilac stag]

accurate

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/letterkenny-allegedly-gif-10608199

At this point I really wonder if Rotten is ever worth it.

[empty cargo]

What is usually better to swap in for the rotten?

[swift tinsel]

1/2 finality

[empty cargo]

I just saw that & was thinking the same thing. Cool

[dawn vector]

Is sub a spec of rogue where we can send cds as they come up

[short radish]

yeah outlaw

[spice matrix]

wheres the foreverguy post he keeps posting

with his spec breakdown

[short radish]

just complain about sub

and he'll appear

[dawn vector]

sCan I get a TlDR of sub

or some dos and donts

[spice matrix]

its in the FAQ

#subtlety-faq

[short radish]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[short radish]

wowhead should help you there

[spice matrix]

@dawn vector

[round latch]

sub is the one spec that even if u read a guide u will NVER learn to execute unless u train

[hazy breach]

If thats what youre looking for sub is the least like that

[round latch]

but ye try the guide

[hazy breach]

Among rogue for sure but probably in the entire game

[dawn vector]

why we press symbols of death 20 seconds before the pull wouldnt we need a 20 second ull timer?

[hazy breach]

You can press it 20 minutes before pull

So no

[dawn vector]

huh?

[short radish]

we need a 40 second pull timer + boss reset

[hazy breach]

supercharger doesnt have a timer

And thats why presymbols is a thing

[dawn vector]

oh wtf

[hazy breach]

So you can do it whenever

[dawn vector]

is that abug?

[hazy breach]

[ivory laurel]

wait so Shadow Strike is only when u are iin stealth ya?

So is it 'good enough' to put Shadowstrike on my 1 keybind only when I'm stealthed and leave it out of my keybinds otherwise?

[short radish]

no

because you press shadow dance

well

hmm

yes

sorta

is the stance delay bug still a thing?

i heard somewhere they fixed it

[round latch]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[ivory laurel]

It isntantlyy goes back to normal binds after stealth and Shadow dance if thats what u mean

Also, Shadow dance gives me the same keybind switch as when I'm stealthed, So can I

Either put Backstab on 1 when not stealthed and Shadowstrike when stealthed (or shadow dance is active)
or
Put Shuriken on 1 and replace iit when stealthed/Shadow dance

[short radish]

please

do not put shuriken on 1

[ivory laurel]

xd

[short radish]

do backstab and shadow strike on 1 if you have to

[ivory laurel]

kay

[dawn vector]

So the guide says for M+ black powder be used on 7 targets or more but shouldnt we just be shadows striking and evis when we have flawless form up

It says when not in shadow dabnce us black powder when flawless form not up

[ivory laurel]

Can I leave out backstab when i am stealth/shadow dance or do i need it during that window?

[short radish]

well

no

but how much do you care about 1%

[warm marlin]

I have my usual backstab bind shared with strike and I’m now realizing it might sometimes be stance delay bugging me

[short radish]

[round latch]

[short radish]

r1 rogue btw

[warm marlin]

I swear it sometimes doesn’t apply FW

[short radish]

[warm marlin]

I assumed it was wa lag

Hmm

[short radish]

stance delay bug claims another victim

[warm marlin]

Kinda forgot that it would affect sub too huh

[warm marlin]

hey usually I’m pressing my separate backstab bind anyway

it would only grief me rarely and I think it usually works

[round latch]

@vale pine yo man,how much of a loss is subter not working with focus?

[hazy breach]

Seeing as focus overall is barely outside the margin of error

Probably something absolutely miniscule like 150 dps

[round latch]

cool thx

[lilac stag]

#subtlety : where rogues come to die mentally & emotionally.

[round latch]

what does ''Shadow Techniques get consumed before wpn master cps come through'' translate to

(watching the bug list,trying to udnerstand the impact)

[hazy breach]

Say you have 7 sht and 0 cp

[vale pine]

also not much dps wise

[hazy breach]

You hit strike > you get 3 cp from strike > you lose 4 sht stacks to get to 7 cp > your weaponmaster strike comes through and wastes 3 cp

[round latch]

wtf

rly?!

[hollow spear]

One more reason to hate weaponmaster

[round latch]

[vale pine]

its more a problem of shadowcraft

but ye

[hollow spear]

There's a slight delay when I get the cp from it too

[round latch]

that is so cringe

[hollow spear]

But the worst part is coup anyways

[warm marlin]

Pressing coup at 6sht

[hollow spear]

I just don't manage to consistently avoid it

If I had a dollar for each unnecessary shadowstrike...

[round latch]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[round latch]

bruh its crazy to me that sub suffers from so many bugs

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[round latch]

NF doesnt interact with sblades i knew that but getting reduced shadow dmg when cleaving coz NF phys escapes my udnerstanding

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/food-gif-14591720388330067320

[round latch]

holysh@t i need an aspirin

cringed too hard

[lilac stag]

I’d suggest something stronger. Morphine or LSD

[round latch]

well i was here rdy to swap to DS Sub and cook some keys

might recraft my gear idk

this is tragedy

[bleak night]

why did you think deathstalker

[lilac stag]

may I suggest fateboud assa as an suitable alternative.

[round latch]

coz i like DS more

[bleak night]

thats like jumping straight to the most cursed option

[round latch]

yeah,looks like omegacursed

[lilac stag]

This is how Sapzilla rolls

[round latch]

im not afraid but this is nuts man

they buff sub but forget to fix it

blizzard things

[lilac stag]

I don’t think we even got one Chinese player brave enough to try it

usually there’s at least one cooking

[warm marlin]

I will play the dark brew PE burst build on vexie today

cook or burnt?

[hollow spear]

sounds very crispy

my grandma would call it not burnt maybe

[serene notch]

Heroic jastor or mythic seaforium?

[hollow spear]

lfr raidbots

[serene notch]

Yea

[round latch]

i wouldnt bother with heroic gear but ye simmerino

[lilac stag]

Jastors not amazing on sub. It typically procs haste in raid. But better in keys. pacemaker good on both.

[serene notch]

I’ll never have a chance at any of the raid stuff at mythic. Just a casual aotc guild.

[round latch]

ild craft a ring,will prolly do the same this week

[hollow spear]

I've got two crafted rings

[round latch]

[hollow spear]

Do you unlock the M+ trinkets the second you complete all 12s or does it only check weekly?

[vale pine]

to be fair stuff like the wm bug is fairly small in impact overall

its low prio for a reason

[hollow spear]

what bugs me more about that is the lack of alternatives

if we had a competitive talent to switch to, I'd be less mad

TFD is not really an option on Gally, and I am progressing that one rn

[vale pine]

i mean, maybe thats harsh

but a easy win is to just remove the combat timer from tfd

it would help sub in m+ and not change much for raid

[serene notch]

Hmmm, not sure I want to say right away.

[vale pine]

on top of making the talent easy to udnerstand

[round latch]

ild like to have a functional tree with funcitonal nodes and skills

[swift tinsel]

best we can do is

not that

[vale pine]

there is #assassination 🙂

[round latch]

im a rogue,could play anything but plz dont send me on the pirate channel

i beg of you

[vale pine]

whats wrong with outlaw

[round latch]

also i wanna try sub now

[vale pine]

then play it

we are literally at a point spec does not matter

outside of perception

[bleak night]

no i agree dont go to the pirate channel right now

[round latch]

asking whats wrong with pirate channel

so many things to say so much not time to spare

[serene notch]

At what key level do you think being Sub undermines the key so much you can’t take it?

Let’s say in a pug setting

[vale pine]

you would not pug these levels

^^

so i guess you could say "none"

you can easy do a e.g. 14 on any spec in the game

[lilac stag]

#assassination

[serene notch]

Do you mean I would not (yes I agree) more of a academic question

[vale pine]

i made the same joke

[round latch]

no,i wanna try sub

[lilac stag]

I just saw it discord lag hahah

[lilac stag]

Best I can offer is 1/4 of the nodes partially working.

[vale pine]

the highest subtlety rogues

[round latch]

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-pawn-stars-rick-disapproves-rick-chum-lee-rick-harrison-rick-harrison-pawn-stars-gif-18132919

[vale pine]

so you can do 19s on sub

which you would never pug tho

pugging a 19 sounds like pain

[lilac stag]

get carried on 19s as sub

I mean

You can do 19s as sub

[round latch]

lashga is cooking some keys though

just sayin

[lilac stag]

I’m sure it’s fine. It’s also not assa or outlaw. Keys are dead to me so my suggestion is just fuck around and see what you can do

[bleak night]

should play mistweaver

[vale pine]

i mean you see it on r.io

[lilac stag]

I’ve hit Armin levels of being done with rogue development or lack there of.

[vale pine]

while the top ones have barely 18 and 19s

the top assassiantion ones have 19/20s

[cloud rover]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923682607857685

[round latch]

ill abduct your pup and hold it hostage

[lilac stag]

no puppy abductions in here

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[cloud rover]

Defend me against this evil man pls

[lilac stag]

They will fuck you up @round latch

[round latch]

they will have alot of fun with my boy and some cats in my backyard

[keen dome]

Those dogs look real happy

[hazy breach]

19s are puggable now, albeit not easy

20s are very rough though

[vale pine]

interessting

[lilac stag]

Post 5k run

[keen dome]

hell yeah

[hollow spear]

wdym, absolute cinema

[serene notch]

I feel like at this level, even though it’s pugging the player pool is so narrow you run into the same dozen guys?

[hollow spear]

Yeah, the definition of pugging becomes quite loose once you've reached a certain point

[honest saddle]

how many people are taking a rogue into their 19

that doesnt know that rogue

about zero. I dunno that playing with people you have played with before but don't regularly play with is a pug, although I guess by definition it kinda is.

[twilit phoenix]

Sensational 💕

[hollow spear]

When I send two dances on Gally to hold Flag for adds, it feels like my Flag comes a little late and adds are almost dead during my first dance in flag

[honest saddle]

you have to send flag early

[lilac stag]

llorgs should show the proper timings.

[honest saddle]

^

[graceful crown]

is this blizz on drugs?

[vale pine]

we don't talk about this talent

echoing repimand can't hurt you if you don't know it exists

[twilit phoenix]

old ER

https://tenor.com/view/salute-crying-sad-gif-15286789

[wet lava]

what have u guys spent ur dinar on after HoC? assuming mostly you m+

[wild hornet]

mythic house of cards

and antoher one for comfort

[wet lava]

ive been siming hero jastor but it sims prety low, does the sim not ttake into account the stat stealing?

[upper narwhal]

Jastor is just not great for Sub compared to other classes

[warm marlin]

jastor since i also play assa

probably pacemaker next/otherwise

[void hound]

you mean on pull?

[hollow spear]

Yep

[void hound]

at this point adds die quite quickly
maybe for maximum pad youd only send one dance on pull and flag earlier

could be an option

might try that once logs are playable again

[warm marlin]

is your guild kicking gally super early

when i did it last week I was ready to press flag right as we kicked the boss

[hollow spear]

We might

Our healing isn't gold standard

[warm marlin]

disorienting strikes abusing?

[hollow spear]

Wdym?

The sectec before wipe tech?

[warm marlin]

press sectec as you're wiping since the 2 free unseen blades stay through death

ye

will give u a bit more cdr on pull

[hollow spear]

Will try a couple more with two dances

[void hound]

genereally

[hollow spear]

Got a suspicion that people are hard swapping to adds

[void hound]

after the two dance

you want to flag immediately when you have the necessary cdr on dance

so 1 charge and 35 sec remaining

depending on rng it gets pushed one finisher front or back

[warm marlin]

def want to send vanish after the 2 dances as well for the cdr

[void hound]

yes

i also send evis first finisher in the first dance to get snd up instead of sectec

since sectec cdr isnt a concern

although that is more of a feelscraft thing

[wet lava]

does the tfd bug still work?

been tryign 2 recreate it havent had luck

[lilac stag]

Just look at the logs

[hollow spear]

Yeah, will have a deeper look later

[lilac stag]

best I can do. wtb the 5% back

[warm marlin]

gally's hitbox is so large you'll probably find it easier to position yourself to nimble flurry the wrenchmongers and technician while just hitting him

[lilac stag]

have to be careful to make sure sectech still hits gally

[vale pine]

3M would be possible with it

[warm marlin]

... can it miss if you cast it while far enough away?

i swear it cant

[void hound]

the key is to pray that the boss doesnt bug out and runs to africa

[lilac stag]

ok. You swear.

[haughty mural]

voidelf for prisons ?

[warm marlin]

as hard as he tries to run from the clones they always catch him

[lilac stag]

I think goon trinket is still an upgrade but screw that

Poor squad getting cucked by non combat lust

[shrewd lantern]

Just don't go void elf

and "accidentally" wipe if you get a gaol

[lilac stag]

Velf Bis

[shrewd lantern]

Real

[lilac stag]

i also have 2 gaol's assignments becuase the only thing worse than sectech pets are warlock pets

[haughty mural]

doing skips with demo locks challenge: impossible

[lucid atlas]

ideally how many ruptures should i spread in aoe

[tepid trellis]

the answer to that is just yes

spread it between dances

to whatever lives a decent amount of time

[lucid atlas]

understood

[rigid pasture]

why did they turn flag's icon to this ugly grey one

the red one was lit

sht looks like its on cd

[tepid trellis]

smth smth purple tints

cuz sub glows purple

yep yep adds up

[swift tinsel]

if the old icon is still in the macro options you can always change it

[bleak night]

you mean you dont want purple hands to go with your purple hands

[shrewd lantern]

Yeah idk how to search for them though

Don't ask me how i have old saberslash icon

[swift tinsel]

idk I just scroll

[strong scroll]

Hello fellow Backstabbers! I'm fairly new to Sub and played a bit with SimulationCraft, and i'm a bit confused about its stat weights. Nearly all guides advice versatility / mastery over other stats, but in simc crit is weighted higher. Did i miss somethng? Also on latest simc-Homepage they changed ring enchant to versatility and also the weapon enchants, now i am more confused than ever, maybe someone is able to enlighten me? 🙂

[shrewd lantern]

on my sinister strike for outlaw

[swift tinsel]

I use the red texture for my WA, pretty sure I changed my action button to Sepsis lol

[alpine wraith]

crit is higher if you have very high gear

but not even that much

make sepsis purple too

[swift tinsel]

Honestly would probably look pretty sweet if they picked the right hue

[shrewd lantern]

is sepsis still in the game

[tepid trellis]

dont think about statweights, stats are a constant balancing act

[swift tinsel]

nope

just the icon

[shrewd lantern]

It's a good icon tbh

too bad its spell is shit

Although i think making the dh spells all green is a nice touch of uniformity.

[swift tinsel]

That's why I use the Nightblade icon for rupture, fits the color scheme better

[swift tinsel]

does the New Member role go away on its own? just noticed I still have that one lol

[alpine wraith]

new forever

[swift tinsel]

Hell yeah

ignore the 2022 part, I am still baby

[alpine wraith]

always learning

[brittle plinth]

Its always about the journey towards improvement

in 2004 I thought autoattacks was a button press (not a toggle) and today I am parsing green 😛

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/i-love-it-samus-paulicelli-66samus-it's-perfect-everything-i-could-have-wanted-and-more-gif-13938711457187451181

[alpine wraith]

well if you never took auto attack off your bar it was

you could mess up and press it again to disable it

[swift tinsel]

Hunt Them Down carrying the torch now

[brittle plinth]

that was the thing, the idea of leaving it toggled was a complete departure from gaming at the time and it was on the bar for a reason I figured.

the 4-8 fps on an 11 inch laptop w/ no mouse all didnt help either

[haughty rose]

anyone else feels like quaziis plater profile is incredibly overrated? i got it yesterday (without doing a backup of my own of course) and since then i'm only fixing, or at least attempt to fix, stuff that massively decreases my performance in m+

and thats far beyond the "your not used to it" stuff

[brittle plinth]

Those profiles are nice to fill in knowledge gaps

if you dont have gaps, you can uninstall

I prefer jundies personally

but its same thing

[tacit pond]

raid related question - is it possible to shadowstep out of the cage on mugzee?

[molten citrus]

try Jundies profile

i found it fit my needs better than Quazii's this season, its nice

[tepid trellis]

you need to time it perfect to step out the same second its about to land

after the wall is up its too late

[viral phoenix]

I thought that got patched

like LOS blockers come up before walls come up

[haughty rose]

the biggest issue i have with quazii's is that finding the mob to kick in a 10+ pack is impossible and if i find it clicking on it can fail pretty easily for some reason

also the difference between a kickable and non kickable cast is very small

is jundies fixing this?

[molten citrus]

just try it out n see

[brittle plinth]

so that has nothing to do quazii, the frames for nameplates are fixed, they only look bigger

(as I understand it)

you can change plater to space em more or stack em

[haughty rose]

i don't know i haven't had any issues with my own for some reason

also the overlap on too many mons weren't as drastic

[swift tinsel]

there are plater mods that increase the size/frame strata of interruptable casts

so they appear in front of regular nameplates and are easier to click/mouseover

should be relatively easy to find on Wago

[viral phoenix]

in between packs how long are you guys trying to wait for TFD if the tank pulls? 1-3 seconds?

[alpine wraith]

depends on the state of cds and the pull it is

if it is full of shitters i wont wait

[viral phoenix]

what about something like right before the mini spider boss in workshop? would you kill the previous pack and back up to wait for TFD?

[vestal escarp]

Cool icon

[graceful crown]

why some people use improved shuriken storm instead shadow focus in lockenstock?

[alpine wraith]

shadow focus is so whatever

[lilac stag]

Sf is useless. Storm for better defensive

[alpine wraith]

yea exil is so good

you wont notice until you untalent it

[graceful crown]

okay thanks :)

i was analyzing this log

is this normal for ST?

do you only use evis in dance for set buff?

this is lockenstock too

[hazy breach]

Shadow focus is not really a dps talent, it reads like it should provide dps but the number is so abysmally low that it doesnt matter

We already have enough energy during dances

[graceful crown]

alright, already changed it to get exhil

[hazy breach]

No

[graceful crown]

then i dont know haha

he busted the boss

i need to check more logs

[opal basalt]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border
• Targets in range tracker

[exotic kelp]

Why is the logo woke now (joking don't ban me)

[alpine wraith]

look at month

[hybrid prism]

I am once again coming to ask if they fixed echoing void

[lilac stag]

you could look at wcl and see if anyone used it today in NA

Otherwise

[alpine wraith]

unlikely

[haughty mural]

Why would I do research on my own ?

[lilac stag]

can’t imagine people are just randomly switching to it to test but idk

[haughty mural]

[alpine wraith]

dont think anyone would waste 2k tokens

even more if they cba doing visions

not entering there unless im very bored

[haughty mural]

I wish I could say that about work sometimes

I kinda want to buy firebugs anklegear to compliment my sub gear

[hybrid prism]

i did the bare minimum to get my greater helm enchant, put a twilight dev on my helm, have 1 echoing void and 1 twilight dev in my bags and have 5k tokens. So its not like they are hard to come by lol

[alpine wraith]

i sent the enchants for my alts

i do have some left but i dont wanna try anything

[vestal escarp]

[wicked urchin]

the jastor/kezan dillemma

[tepid trellis]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[exotic kelp]

Jastor isnt even an upgrade for me and no fight goes long enough for kezan 😭

[trail furnace]

i got vault fucked, is a B tier trinket at 8/8 Myth better than Eye of Kezan 8/8 Hero?

for sub rogue

[wicked urchin]

it's like 0.5% for me. not sure what our kill times are gonna look like on last 3 now though

[hazy breach]

Idk what a B tier trinket is

[ivory laurel]

Probably wowhead's thing

[trail furnace]

this in particular

[exotic kelp]

no

[hazy breach]

Well you can sim it

But for short fights kezan is not good

Its good for longer fights (5+ minutes)

[trail furnace]

guess ill grab a frac spark and fortune craft something

[wicked urchin]

socket?

[trail furnace]

better to socket a 8/8 myth belt then to fortune craft a 681 piece upgrading a 8/8 hero?

[exotic kelp]

Probs not

got delve belt coming in 2 weeks

could potentially be replacing current belt, ive 0 idea of its current tuning

[trail furnace]

alright well ty for the help and fast response ill just craft smth this week i guess

[graceful crown]

subtlety outlaw pure main gauche dealing same dmg as BTE

nah crazy

[ivory laurel]

How do our stats exxactly work (im new to wow since a few week and started gearing a few days ago)

I started as Outlaw but enjoying Sub a lot, I know we need little haste but for example my Tier set helm got haste, I don't think I could choose it it just changed when i put it in the Catalyzer?

[exotic kelp]

Tier set items have set stats

[ivory laurel]

Ohk

[exotic kelp]

so if you catalyse an item, its gets the tier items stats

[ivory laurel]

thanks :3

[exotic kelp]

we keep head though and skip hands.

that 621 haste is all the haste ive got on sub, very sad

[ivory laurel]

What items should I catalyze? Is it always Hero Track or should I preferrably catalyyze Myth track?

[hazy breach]

You should have enough charges that it doesnt matter by now

[wicked urchin]

You should have enough charges at this point where you can catalyze hero track

[exotic kelp]

myth track if its in set parts, otherwise its just for stats.

[wicked urchin]

Ye

[hazy breach]

But generally early on in the season you'd use it on whatever the highest you can aquire

[ivory laurel]

Sorry I don't fully get it, I have like 7 charges? That's enough for one set rite? So do I wait for Myth drop's and change that into Tier set gear? I don't think I can get a full tier Hero set and then do the same for Myth after?

Or will I get more charges (I see there's only 5 items in a tier set)

[hazy breach]

Yes 7 charges is enough for a full hc set and then 3/4 myth pieces

You get one charge every other week

[ivory laurel]

Ohkie

ty

[crystal kraken]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i1tAXaiwsVxYYuU7k9VxTs swapping back to Subgang

https://tenor.com/view/muahaha-evil-laugh-evil-laugh-futurama-gif-4133163

[ivory laurel]

Is this how much DPS u would do at optimal dmg?

with ur gear

[crystal kraken]

yes, not realistic and yes with my gear

[ivory laurel]

Can I like

Sim something and compare iit against a dummy?

Theres a few settings u can change on there so i'm a bit confused

like which boss and all

[crystal kraken]

you can do target dummy instead of patchwerk boss, disabled raid buffs and consumables

on raidbots

[ivory laurel]

Also it keeps saying Outlaw evenn tho I switched to Sub a bit ago. Even after clicking the refresh button

maybe just needs some time ig

[ivory laurel]

thx

[crystal kraken]

make sure your import from /simc is copied while your in Sub spec

[ivory laurel]

Oh

I was doing t from armoryy

[crystal kraken]

armory is delayed

[ivory laurel]

mhm make sense

Are there any solid macro's that don't take away DPS for the spec? Things that can be used together?

I'm guessing some major or minor CD's

[short radish]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[serene notch]

Cold blood is such a dumb button, should just be a talent that says sectec always crits while stealthed/in SD or something

[hazy breach]

Yep

[random mason]

But what if u dont want to use it on sectec /s

Player agency

[warm marlin]

who needs 5% (cauldron)

[lucid jackal]

Sub is bad without the buff btw

[warm marlin]

wait i accidentally had kezan on

its so joever

[hazy breach]

[lilac stag]

Just high roll 4head

[hexed sluice]

Somehow found myself 2/8 mythic and standingin frount of rik rn. how long was the delay on cds for rik to line things up?

[hexed sluice]

BLESS YOU 🫡