!fuu
#subtlety
pearl swan
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wide kernel
Yeah but what is 'six seconds out of combat' defined as though. Is it when I'm not hitting anything? is there a distance parameter, dot parameter? I did like 10 minutes of testing on the dummies in dourngal and I tested with and without rupture. In both cases I walked outside of MD and sat there, and from what I could tell its like 6 seconds of not attacking / being close to target to get TFD to start the timer
hazy breach
Once you leave combat the timer should start
And then you wait 6 seconds while being out of combat
And then its up
alpine wraith
that would be crazy
how about if anyone enters combat the timer resets
and maybe it takes 2 to 3 seconds to register you left combat
best i can do
indi game you know
wide kernel
Once you leave combat the timer should start
So, for example in brew let's say you just killed a hopgoblin and it's adds are still up and that pack of adds is done. Can you just walk a bit out of MD and expect the TFD timer to start soon?
hazy breach
If you are not in combat sure
wide kernel
is there some setting i turned off that isn't showing me when I'm in or not in combat?
hazy breach
Like theres an indication on your UI (or atleast base UI) that shows that
But typically its whenever you can stealth
You are not in combat
wide kernel
im using elvUI
i tested that though with the dummy, stealth just seems to be a seperate mechanic
sly shore
I have a combat timer from ert
When that is off can stealth
Also just spam the bind anyway
And track stealth being active
wide kernel
like i stealthed after leaving MD of the dummy and TFD started 2-3~ after i could stealth
wide kernel
i guess the important question is, does TFD count if its just you or your team is in combat
potent relic
!wa
wicked joltBOT
bright sundial
so guys anyone else annoyed doing affix puts you into combat always before packs i swear its not a big deal but man i hate it
hoary lotus
Sometimes you get tfd if you vanish with no wait. Good game
torpid harbor
!wa
wicked joltBOT
high flint
i did not even realize the meme here
speaking of gem sockets
do gem sockets carry over between seasons?
on crafted items
i know the enchants you put on them carry over
tribal blade
yes
tribal blade
haha well they sell for gold after the season i think
they become vendor grays
so you gained some gold!~
short radish
i wasted tokens from last season not gemming up my shit
when you recraft them, they go away though
hazy breach
Ye once you recraft with the new sparks the sockets get removed
tribal blade
oh i misunderstood what you meant, sorry gave you bad information
hazy breach
But recrafting with the same spark (ie the same season) keeps the socket
iron crane
What do you guys use as your burst rotation? I'm currently doing:
Shadowstrike - Rupture - Blades+Symbols+Tea macro - Cheap Shot - Eviscerate - Shadowstrike - Secret Technique - Cheap Shot - Eviscerate - Cheap Shot - Eviscerate
I'm open to any alternate rotations especially if you're like 2k+ rating in something
wispy bolt
acoustic lodge
wrong chat bud
ashen crest
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
high flint
4% bandit wipe
you got it in the next pull
wicked urchin
yep!
high flint
oooh very nice
wicked urchin
3%!
high flint
ooh even closer
hoary lotus
with finality do I send empowered rupture, or do I care
lilac stag
I love tiers where blizzard forgets subtlety exists
frank bobcat
it def feels bad to play very well on a boss and be in the middle of the pack :/
wide kernel
I love tiers where blizzard forgets subtlety exists
Don't worry fazed bug got fixed..... or
lilac stag
I just changed my name to atrophic poison and am done with it
Sure nice dev can outburst our opener with 3 buttons
tribal blade
hrm my guild is gonna be started mugzee prog soon
and they want to do the speed strat
i was gonna play sin, but would it be worth playing sub now
lilac stag
they both suck equally
play sub to avoid wanting to inflict self harm from boredom of assa
warm marlin
i was gonna play sin, but would it be worth playing sub now
depends on your group dps but there was not time for 2 dms in execute on our last 2 reclears
i played sin last week and it was quite unfortunate
sub this week was much better
but missing the goon damage from spatter kind of sucked
coarse hound
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hallow adder
does symbols still store 2 supercharged combo points, meaning we use it after we res inbetween wipes, or was that fixed
lilac stag
it stores 2
short radish
i was gonna play sin, but would it be worth playing sub now
come back to the shadows
warm marlin
be careful pressing vanish when spears are out i guess
they in fact do not disappear
rocky ocean
wicked urchin
the rogue trial is in for mugzee over me im sad
tribal blade
come back to the shadows
you know what, we're about to pull mugzee for the first time
let's see
wicked urchin
you know what, we're about to pull mugzee for the first time
We just killed bandit but I don't get to pull mugzee 
tribal blade
We just killed bandit but I don't get to pull mugzee <:pepehands:757566347558387...
noooooooo
bro it's storming here
so i had more ms than usual
it completely fucked my rotation
so sad
i was in spell queueing nightmare
BUT bandit is dead, who cares
tribal blade
We just killed bandit but I don't get to pull mugzee <:pepehands:757566347558387...
that's kinda fucked they're putting in a trial over you
wicked urchin
clutched a rank 5 im pretty stoke
tribal blade
i saw! grats
wicked urchin
he's technically not trial anymore but
tribal blade
ahhh ok
wicked urchin
idk it's pretty frustrating not being in just because the gm is trying to be fair
instead of bringing the player thats been there for 4 tiers
like im in on gally but
not getting to prog the real last boss sucks
wicked urchin
it is weird
i mean we roll on loot so
last time i talked about my guild in here i had like 5 people tell me to leave immediately
wicked urchin
now im going to play like a fucking wet mop on mug during reclear
because i never got to learn it
wicked urchin
being with a guild for 4 tiers is a while
just didn't really have a drive to move up until now
tribal blade
just didn't really have a drive to move up until now
if you were in my guild and a high performer there's no way you wouldn't be in
tribal blade
over a trial
wicked urchin
it just feels crazy to me
tribal blade
well newer person
wicked urchin
he was even shocked he was in
we were chatting before bandit and he was saying he thought the tier is basically over for him until reclear
i'm in on gally at least
im pretty bummed all this fun new power stuff comes next week and i dont even get to play
short radish
to be an advocate for the devil
sometimes it do be like that
you gotta take trial for a hard boss as well
otherwise you cant really trial them
wicked urchin
Yeah that's fair
He was in on bandit with me though
And the reason I got from the gm was specifically "because I'm in on gally"
Which kind of insinuates that it's more just trying to be fair on who's in
wicked urchin
Just a tad frustrating when I've been performing imo very well this tier
bleak night
secret is just to never perform well
wicked urchin
honestly true
it's gonna be weeks before i can even use HoC
this is the real tragedy
gaming
merry agate
They dont buff us because we're missing something!
There must be a super-hidden unicorn build we havent discovered, but blizz knows about it...
That must be the reason!
vale pine
looks like a socket
wide kernel
i had to choose between eye and myth belt with really good stats
wicked urchin
comes down to where you're at in prog/what you're pushing for
its very good on last 3
haughty mural
Don't worry fazed bug got fixed..... or
??
tame stone
are we finally going to swap cyrces next week wdyt
keen dome
I simmed a pair of 675 rings today (crafted) and they were better so you might be able to swap it today!!!
But also who knows, I hate the circlet
worn ivy
Jastor hc will sim better than 675 rings
keen dome
It didn't for me
keen dome
I don't have the sim open atm. Yeah, I suspect so. Which is why the crafted simmed better since it's a load of versa
Probably going to be a variable mix depending on gear but I'll probably slam the jastor 'cos it's cool anyway
wide kernel
??
there was a fazed bug that was suppose to get fixed last week that wasn't fixed and was wondering if it was now
noble rune
what was the bug exactly ?
wide kernel
i believe some bug between nimble flurry and fazed, but unsure
winter elbow
Do we think Blizz will change anything about sub this season? Any tuning at all? Or nah?
keen dome
More purple
wide kernel
Know bout it… But then don’t write it got fixed
they said they fixed it
plush roost
Do we think Blizz will change anything about sub this season? Any tuning at all?...
Nobody can know, theres always a spec on bottom but sub is quite down bad so I'd say they're likely to receive something in the coming weeks if theres any more tuning
But cant guarantee any more tuning lol, s1 had no tuning for months
wide kernel
Nobody can know, theres always a spec on bottom but sub is quite down bad so I'd...
we said this weeks ago 😦
the last tuning we received was-8% dps nerf and set bonus gimp
short radish
Do we think Blizz will change anything about sub this season? Any tuning at all?...
no
dont hold your breath
wide kernel
i believe sub rogues are paying for collective sin of disc priest and uhdk or some crap this patch
hollow spear
the real prio dmg spec
Just finished leveling one to 80
No clue what's going on with that spec, feels fun though
fathom gazelle
sub hates haste correct?
alpine wraith
it is less powerful than other stats yes
warm goblet
does that make any sense to delay this week's craft to next reset? trying to figure out what I hsould do with my crests
fathom gazelle
warm goblet
does that make any sense to delay this week's craft to next reset? trying to fig...
for crest economy I mean
alpine wraith
no need to delay unless you are poor
fathom gazelle
does that make any sense to delay this week's craft to next reset? trying to fig...
its uncapped next week so doesnt matter
alpine wraith
the upgrade would cost 60+30 or 90
fallow nimbus
But can't you just buy the new one and craft with that?
So you would save 60 crest
Or is it recraft material only?
warm goblet
i'm assuming you can only upgrade gilded and runed crafts
meaning you have to spend the 60 crests anyways
spare garnet
any tips? what key level? ilvl? talents?
hidden spade
Raidbots is saying going from a 658 -> 675 offhand with same secondaries is only a 0.2% upgrade is that right? I thought weapons were big
still trellis
offhand is only there for the stats, thats why only mainhand is important and sometimes you will see specs use a lower ilvl offhand because of a special effect (sylvanas dagger, in DF the megadungeon dagger and so on)
hidden spade
Ahh i see ty!
void ocean
damn, no secret buffs in EU too...
fathom gazelle
did sub rotation change since we dont play rotten anymore?
remote shuttle
did sub rotation change since we dont play rotten anymore?
Uh? We don't? What's up, back to finality ?
fathom gazelle
Uh? We don't? What's up, back to finality ?
according to the sim profile in the pin for st its -1 rotten + 1 finality
fathom gazelle
so both is fine
does removing rottent change anything in the rotation?
vale pine
nope
fathom gazelle
kk ty
void ocean
nothing ever matters 😄
hidden spade
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
worn ivy
does removing rottent change anything in the rotation?
On aoe it does change
worn ivy
nope
Aoe it does or ?
You dont need to storm 2nd rotten
Apperently spreading fw is not that big i guess
north schooner
they asked st
vale pine
ye
stiff cloud
does removing rottent change anything in the rotation?
it does
nocturne birch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
remote shuttle
Well that's Latin alphabet... Think they were using it couple centuries before English ppl 😂
@void ocean
void ocean
huh?
nocturne birch
Do we play the Tornado build in M+ now? Or still First Dance?
void ocean
Do we play the Tornado build in M+ now? Or still First Dance?
afaik nado has some advantage in chainpulling scenarios
lilac stag
Tornado is ass
Legit just helps CDR and not even good at that
right up there with Tea
limpid sage
Will the dinar items be on their own track or complete replicas of the raid versions?
keen dome
I imagine they're just the riad item
limpid sage
Because it’s gonna feel horrible using dinars on HC HoC while progging mythic bandit
keen dome
Just pretend the item will never drop
limpid sage
Oh ye but you can buy the mythic version instead if you kill bandit first
keen dome
Yep
lilac stag
I highly doubt pvp trinket vs heroic HoC is the reason you’re not killing bandit
Especially after ilvl increase
vestal veldt
Hi peep's how good is sacred priory trinket on sub
vestal veldt
Well damn
alpine wraith
the pvp trinket is fine
lilac stag
get the pvp badge is you really want to play sub
If you have better gear for assa just play assa
alpine wraith
another funny one is for m+ drink and mechanocore
were almost tied to hoc+pacemaker
and the last 2 were M
mastery stonks
lilac stag
haste stonks on the rise. Hahah
alpine wraith
seems like the mastery proc coincides quite a bit with cds anyway
but idk i still dont have hero drink
lilac stag
drink is always up
alpine wraith
it has like 40% uptime yea
mechano is around 30% for the mastery one at most
ends up being like 20 20 a lot of the time with haste
north schooner
they should make more trinkets like the magnet tbh, then people can use them no matter if their CDs are 60 90 or 120s
limpid sage
I highly doubt pvp trinket vs heroic HoC is the reason you’re not killing bandit
That’s not what I said - I just don’t wanna use the dinars on a heroic version of HoC if I can guaranteed have the mythic version a week later yknow
alpine wraith
it is fine to save it
lilac stag
When you say you don’t want to, it infers you will. 
lilac stag
mmhm
alpine wraith
although maybe we are just in the middle of the patch lifecycle
limpid sage
When you say you don’t want to, it infers you will. <:dracthyr_shrug:10024541567...
I will for sure be battling my demons
alpine wraith
so it might make sense
lilac stag
dead game. dead spec.
alpine wraith
like almost 2 months in kinda right?
lilac stag
legit just running sub out of boredom on locken, and the help the rest of our melee. lol
alpine wraith
at least boss dies after second knock
so no purple balls of inting the whole raid because of 1 person now
junior prawn
is pvp trinket better than transmitter not accounting for the unfun mini-game
lilac stag
yes
I would bet money you’re not nearly as accurate with transmitter pickup timing as sims are expecting you to be (100% every Sectech)
void hound
dead game. dead spec.
real
fallow nimbus
like almost 2 months in kinda right?
Wasn't the first week 1 then a little bit for 2nd?
noble rune
so assuming you got no HoC or transmitter because rng truly hates you, you just roll with the pvp trinket ?
Asking for a friend ofc.
hazy breach
Yes
stiff cloud
dead game. dead spec.
exactly
lilac stag
at least boss dies after second knock
Idk where our timings are at. Our best pull was 27% around 4min mark
Went right to watching Andor after raid and was up to 2am with that. lol
alpine wraith
uh he dies liek around 5:30 or 40 if everyone is kinda alive and not omegainting dps
so after knock and interphase thingy maybe does 1 mines
tribal blade
i'm talking to a warr i know who also pushes keys
lilac stag
yea we were hitting 2nd blue beam
tribal blade
he's having a crisis right now
...because he's running with an outlaw rogue
he's asking what my opinion on it is
lilac stag
KS mechanic floor guides are hilarious
tribal blade
it's more so this season has a LOT of massive pulls
and outlaw is hard capped
most dungeons you are pulling crazy high target counts
lilac stag
it’s a good balance between aoe and st
tribal blade
it's literally impossible for outlaw to keep up
lilac stag
legit should be fine overall
tribal blade
i dunno
maybe
i haven't actually run with one
but some of these dungeons are non stop huge pulls
lilac stag
I did a 13 cinder. Didn’t get enough restealth due to aggressively pulling. Outlaw and I were neck and neck
ks outlaw is more than fine if they are good
The ST I couldn’t keep up
I also don’t see a reason to worry about it until it’s actually a problem
tribal blade
i'm not sure if outlaw could keep up on how people pull cinder on like 16 or higher
like the first pull of the dungeon is no joke x3 muscles
it's a huge pull
lilac stag
what do you think the 3300 tank was pulling in the 13?
tribal blade
i have no idea haha
tribal blade
i usually try to ask tanks to not chain as much in cinder for me
at least let me get some restealths
and not do cringe chaining
tribal blade
cinder is the only place where chaining is a big thing
lilac stag
so no big deal
Let the dude be a pirate until they’re not timing
that’s exactly what you did last season
tribal blade
nah i'm not talking him out of it
i just don't see how outlaw can keep up
even wox is mostly playing sin now
lilac stag
play it
tribal blade
poor guy
lilac stag
If they’re pushing 16-17 outlaw fine imo
tribal blade
yeah probably
he was just telling me it feels really hard running with outlaw right now
because doing huge pulls with them feels scary
warm marlin
Since bug fix outlaw is pretty good actually
lilac stag
meta prejudice
warm marlin
You do need a spec or two that can hard carry the huge pulls but the spec is actually quite strong
tribal blade
ah ok
lilac stag
unless he’s taking IW as assa pull gonna feel the same
still trellis
imma be real, if you think about swapping to assa from outlaw for mass aoe, might aswell swap to dk and do it properly
lilac stag
my nightmare fuel was mechanics turning into a purple disco ball when KS was activated
hilarious and frightening at the same time
void ocean
imma be real, if you think about swapping to assa from outlaw for mass aoe, migh...
or play both, assa and dk like I do 😄
lilac stag
also worrying about key levels that won’t matter in 6 days
lilac stag
or play both, assa and dk like I do 😄
That sounds like work
leaden prairie
If they’re pushing 16-17 outlaw fine imo
since bug fix outlaw is kinda good ngl
i think you guys are not aware yet
tribal blade
i'm just parroting what someone else told me
tribal blade
yeah destro in huge pulls
leaden prairie
thats my take
keen dome
where would sub be on that list
lilac stag
i think you guys are not aware yet
I’m out here supporting it
leaden prairie
where would sub be on that list
I think sub is weird cause it's very dungeon dependent
In dungeons like top or workshop
I think sub is great but then
keen dome
Yeah, absolutely
lilac stag
Just like raid. 1-2 spots. Useless otherwise
leaden prairie
Even outlaw don't fall off that hard imo
And sub is uncapped!
Wtf what happened !
tribal blade
sub felt like absolute dogshit in cinderbrew
lilac stag
Nope and ST is good as outlaw
minor forum
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
If it wasn’t for KS I’d play it over assa
leaden prairie
If it wasn’t for KS I’d play it over assa
Ye issue rn is that you have to consider that as well
Damage wise outlaw is right there
tribal blade
feels like sub is missing an entire part of it's toolkit for aoe
lilac stag
KS make me want to off myself with bleech
tribal blade
this season is also a lot of dodge swirlies on ground
leaden prairie
udk > balance > mage/assa > MM > outlaw?
ret actually does damage aswell
and its getting buffed !
lilac stag
ST seems awful. At least with the pugs I’ve been stuck with
vestal escarp
good sin bracers in vault
void ocean
That sounds like work
well as rogue im only doing 10s for vault... dk is pusher, tho for me "pushing" is 12-13
lilac stag
Still too much work. Haha 
void ocean
tho might be needing to do all 12s on rogue if i dont get mythic signet 😄
lilac stag
I’m worried I’m going to have to get 14s done just to make pugging 10s easier. 
673 and 3k I don’t have to sit in LFG too long for weekly vault keys
Tuesday we full send the 500-900 crests conversions.
void ocean
my god, when I equip that Jastor
the dopamine hit is gonna be real
had eye of kezan in the vault this mornin, didnt take it, feelsbadman
tribal blade
eye of kezan really only good in raid on long boss fights
keen dome
Tuesday we full send the 500-900 crests conversions. <:coolpanda:567365506177171...
hell yeah
tribal blade
so it's not so bad
void ocean
eye of kezan really only good in raid on long boss fights
figured, gave me dps increase only on 7min sim
lilac stag
fight times just gonna drop
tribal blade
figured, gave me dps increase only on 7min sim
yeah makes sense
and trying running it in M+
my god
keen dome
Yeah, every sim for Kezan I did to figure it out, it needed 6 - 7 minutes to beat my pacemaker
then I ran it just to be sure and yeah it sucked on so many sub-4 minute kills lol
lilac stag
imagine trying to run Kezan & TFD 
void ocean
strange thing, for 7-8min it suggested me to replace HoC, not peacemaker 😄
(tho simmed as assa)
tribal blade
imagine trying to run Kezan & TFD <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
lol that would actually destroy the universe
create a black hole
keen dome
I'm sure we can make it worse
"I'm going all out!"
Brann Bronzebeard has left the group
He really went all out
wild hornet
I've heard something about a new currency and +6 ilvl craft, will that change the bis list in any way
hazy breach
No meaningful impact no
crystal bone
the only thing that could possibly change is dropping circlet?
hazy breach
Sub was already doing that
And most of assa setups was too, or atleast it being equal to circlet
crystal bone
yea it was within margin of error for my sin setup
plush roost
Imagine getting rings wouldn't be me
plush roost
Mugzee weapon for outlaw funsies?
hazy breach
I aint about that outlaw life im afraid
plush roost
Understandable. Killing sprees into the floor and dc's
slate marlin
mythic pacemaker?
hazy breach
Well ye the sims show the average (technically the median) value of the item
plush roost
Yeah looking at the item not knowing its proc rate did make it look spicy
hazy breach
So on average its not great, since it sucks if it procs outside cds
plush roost
Just hit ig
hazy breach
Its got 1 rppm
full lagoon
winter python
Jastor, Hoc and ??
Eye of Kezan for prog bosses next tier
plush roost
Eye of kazan so you can stack it up before hitting the last boss in rookery
5head omegabrain here
hazy breach
Eye of Kezan for prog bosses next tier <:copium:854628182104080414>
Fair
hazy breach
Is that real? That thing simmed hella low for me
crystal bone
worth
hazy breach
But then again, the crafted trinket is pretty much the same
Either way im sticking with assa until sub gets buffed, so probably until next tier
solemn lance
I am returning to sub rogue, I just dont enjoy raiding as sin
plush roost
Raiding as sin this tier is definitely an experience
Like a fall asleep and hit 4 buttons experience
vestal escarp
overflowing supercharged cps cause you cant spend em before next shiv 
void ocean
i mean... u get to focus better on mechanics... 😄
unlike dust build on Smolderon when I spent more time thinking "which burst window is coming and how its gonna look" than collecting orbs 😄
graceful crown
why is subtlety rogue the only one without the cha-ching sound from the set :(
they hate us, istg
dry plank
they cant hate something they do not know exist xD
graceful crown
real
vale pine
Either way im sticking with assa until sub gets buffed, so probably until next t...
have fun
alpine wraith
im going to cope with 32k mastery
and just crit every finisher
if we get more people aboard someone will highroll
one day
maybe we beat some blue parse warriors
solemn lance
thats pretty optimistic of you
slate marlin
if we get more people aboard someone will highroll
now beat grey parsing dev evokers
edgy zenith
wait do you SB the phys portion of sectech nowadays?
lilac stag
DK?
left ledge
Sub rogue
vestal escarp
whats that?
lilac stag
HoC ain’t gonna fix shit
vestal escarp
i think i miss my radio
hazy breach
wait do you SB the phys portion of sectech nowadays?
Doesnt matter
lilac stag
You could have fixed that week1
left ledge
No I couldn’t have
lilac stag
Yeah you could have
left ledge
Badge is just not as good as mythic transmitter
lilac stag
I forgot you’re perfect in pickup. My bad
left ledge
?
left ledge
You’re acting like it’s hard to “time” transmitter
alpine wraith
it can be depending on boss etc
lilac stag
haha
left ledge
Also my main problem
Wasn’t timing
It’s that it FALLS OFF THE FUCKING MAP
AND GOES THROUGH WALLS
vestal escarp
It’s that it FALLS OFF THE FUCKING MAP
no you fall off, the orb floats above the void
left ledge
Yeah I mean in most cases
That doesn’t happen
But when it does it’s quite annoying
I did my part and got freed from prison
stiff spear
Why the hell does raidbots keep swapping my trinkets around to give me like 500-1k dps gain xD
sullen hare
do you have two on-use trinkets?
stiff spear
yeah
sullen hare
because iirc it always uses top trinket first
stiff spear
ah, figures
hazy breach
By default yes, but most APLs have things to do them in the proper order
But also 500-1k is literally nothing
its within the margin of error
stiff spear
yeah, it's just a bit annoying
hazy breach
What
stiff spear
Btw, how do you handle CDs on Rik Reverb mythic now that we can't evade the amplifier drop anymore?
left ledge
Just send after the drop
shut ridge
still don’t understand the reason for that change
left ledge
Because evasion shouldn’t work
shut ridge
evasion can actually be used for something? nope, can’t have that
shut ridge
why is it even on my bars at this point
left ledge
Make feint 50 energy
grand venture
take away the dagger offhand
stiff spear
I think we should get a third dagger slot
shut ridge
I’d say remove flurry but, uh, erm…
grand venture
stick the third dagger in your teeth and zoro it lmfao
shut ridge
Make feint 50 energy
feint could be free and I’m still not pushing that shit heal my character
just trying to help my healers pad, I’m so ethical
stiff spear
push those healer logs
shut ridge
that’s right
left ledge
feint could be free and I’m still not pushing that shit heal my character
Ok that’s demonic
swift tinsel
I do that and it’s def not because the tanks are slow af with moving her/don’t move, and melee int with dropping
shut ridge
I do that and it’s def not because the tanks are slow af with moving her/don’t m...
definitely not
keen dome
MORE
alpine wraith
no way your sims tell you to further stack mastery
your sim tells you to play dev evoker
lilac stag
meanwhile versa is worth 27 and mastery is worth 20
serene notch
I wonder what class has the biggest delta between sims and real world parses
hazy breach
Havoc is among them or sure right now
void ocean
i guess i depends how much fight differs from Patchwerk and how much is the class sensitive to downtime
thats where id look
alpine wraith
what
void ocean
flies away
hazy breach
Ive done a lot of dummy testing and sub is very close to ingame there
alpine wraith
uhdk was crazy delta because of beast
hazy breach
Assa has envenom doing slightly more ingame than in the sim
alpine wraith
on m+ situations
hazy breach
But i cant figure out why
alpine wraith
like literally pop beast on big pull 40m+ aoe
hazy breach
swift tinsel
fdk relies on mark resets from extermination and if you highroll its quite insane
void ocean
DB Fdk has a wild stdev for its sims
in st dummy i go sometimes 3m in opener sometimes 2, sometimes maintain almost 2m, other times goes to like 1.5
hazy breach
Dont think sin really is that casino overall
Like ye if you look at the opener specifically, but it usually evens out by the end of the fight
swift tinsel
in st dummy i go sometimes 3m in opener sometimes 2, sometimes maintain almost 2...
yeah there's like a 1.7mil difference between bottom and top sim in st alone on simc site lol
hazy breach
Sub without getting that first unseen blade proc on the opener so you cant get a coup before second sectech
Now thats a fun one
lucid jackal
Like ye if you look at the opener specifically, but it usually evens out by the ...
Maybe not statistically but between ambush procs and crits on mutilate it feels so annoying in certain instances
the nightmare 4 mutilates, 0 blindside procs dn at 0 energy
hazy breach
the nightmare 4 mutilates, 0 blindside procs dn at 0 energy
ye those feel horrible
hexed sluice
hazy breach
Last night on gally i had on pull where i was at 20 stacks of my eye of kezan after 1:45 and then one where i didnt hit 20 stacks until 6 minutes
left ledge
the nightmare 4 mutilates, 0 blindside procs dn at 0 energy
I’ve went 22 muts in execute :)
I alt f4 after that one
Then rare pulls I get 5 blindsides back to back in opener
vale pine
This is why sub is not getting buffed on retail
true
vestal escarp
https://www.wowhead.com/cata/news/subtlety-rogue-and-demonology-warlock-neck-and...
spec literally carried by snd and aa dmg
open vortex
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
just dont look at haste
north schooner
gotta go slow
worn ivy
How behind is ds in aoe ?
alpine wraith
not much but gameplay is omegaass
swift tinsel
lilac stag
Another day another stat weight post.
swift tinsel
nocturne birch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5k6HxCFN8ZooDmfgTvVyZE
Nelf
Thought you were void
nocturne birch
maybe vers is stable
lilac stag
Because you’re looking at assa logs
lilac stag
wtf do you so signet?
autumn glade
Hard to replace 6k mastery from circlet
autumn glade
6K mastery and 800 of every other substat
lilac stag
No one wasting 75 crests for a 4000 dps upgrade
nocturne birch
hold my beer
lilac stag
Show me a mythic jastors
hollow spear
Slack more pls guys
hollow spear
Still not last
junior prawn
got the screenshot gang
even tho its such a specific instance of this , its still funny
alpine wraith
it was meant to be
serene notch
Vexie lines up so miserably for CDs
alpine wraith
yea if you dont kill in 1
winter junco
junior prawn
well they also use shadow abilities
they trynna keep up shadow users down till midnight expac
hoary lotus
Why would you pick vexie lol
warm depot
vexie is sick
lime edge
hey subs, is it a bad idea to macro coldblood and secret tech together? or is it fine? should i just learn to use it on every other secret tech? inlighten me with your wisdoms ohh wise lads of ravenholdt
warm marlin
Why would you pick vexie lol
it was the only metric where sub was below aug
therefore i cherrypicked it
spark tusk
hey subs, is it a bad idea to macro coldblood and secret tech together? or is i...
It’s a slight loss to just macro it but it isn’t game breaking. It’s fine to macro it when starting out, but ideally it will be used such that it aligns with your second SecTec during CDs.
I just created two buttons for sectec, one with CB and one without, and I pretend that the second sectec during CDs is a special different finisher on a different button and hit that
patent crystal
same
lime edge
It’s a slight loss to just macro it but it isn’t game breaking. It’s fine to mac...
lis how much of a loss we talking exacly? and can i get those macros pweaty pwease
spark tusk
I don’t know the %. Point is that it’s a slight number reduction without affecting your rotation or game dynamics, it doesn’t affect resources or anything. It’s important if you’re failing dps checks on bosses and need to squeeze out a bit more. If you’re wiping to other things, it’s nbd
The macros are exactly what you’d expect
I’m on my phone rn
/cast cold blood /cast sectec
wispy bolt
It’s a slight loss to just macro it but it isn’t game breaking. It’s fine to mac...
This is cope. In m+ big AOE it’s big dps
unfortunately discussion here is raid focused
limpid sage
I just use
/cast [mod:shift] Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
wispy bolt
On 5 target dummy, peaks on my details go from 7.5m to 10m just by moving CB to the second SecTech
spark tusk
This is cope. In m+ big AOE it’s big dps
Cope implies a misunderstanding of my point
It is worse to not do it, I said as much.
wispy bolt
I used it as cope for weeks until I decided to unbind it and saw my dps skyrocket
25% is not a slight loss
spark tusk
swift tinsel
in single target/most raid scenarios, it is a slight loss which is typically what people are asking about unless they're specifying aoe/m+
lime edge
It’s a slight loss to just macro it but it isn’t game breaking. It’s fine to mac...
wait a whats the macro without cb for?
swift tinsel
you'd have one macro with cb+sectech and one naked sectech bind
wide kernel
hey subs, is it a bad idea to macro coldblood and secret tech together? or is i...
its a very slight loss
lime edge
its a very slight loss
also in aoe? or big bad loss in aoe?
swift tinsel
more so, depending on target count
at work so I can't mess with the apl to show the diff
hazy breach
This is cope. In m+ big AOE it’s big dps
Well sometimes its a gain to use it earlier if most of the pack is dead by the time you get to your second sectech
wide kernel
isnt there a macro where you can make it send cb on the 2nd press
hazy breach
But yes overall id definitely recommend it to not be macroed atm
or have 2 binds, one with and one without
fiery pewter
In aoe is SexTec used outside of dance? Reading the wowhead guide aoe section the priority list doesn't mention SecTec "when out of dance"
wide kernel
if symbols <9 seconds then sectec is the condition i believe
hazy breach
In aoe is SexTec used outside of dance? Reading the wowhead guide aoe section th...
Generally no
In theory you can do it if youre sure you'll get it up for your next dance anyway, but its an incredibly minor gain and screws you a lot if you need to dance with it on a noticeable cooldown
Would not recommend
vestal escarp
wrong chat
alpine wraith
wrong chat
random hare
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
alpine wraith
it is a good trink ahaha
vestal escarp
hazy breach
Idk im not sure, ive seen a bunch of logs where it doesnt proc all the boys with BL
Not to mention they sometimes show up as not your damage, similar to when the logger is out of range for sectech
random hare
Idk im not sure, ive seen a bunch of logs where it doesnt proc all the boys with...
they dont spawn?
wtf
alpine wraith
damn that must suck
swift tinsel
That’s when I’ve noticed it not working right
hazy breach
I could be wrong, i havent looked that much into it, but that made sense in my head
And i dont use it so
swift tinsel
Pre-combat BL
hazy breach
(dont have it either)
swift tinsel
So that tracks
delicate wind
I just use
/cast [mod:shift] Cold Blood
/cast Secret Technique
jokes on you shift is already a part of my keybind for sec tec
shadow lance
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lime edge
at work so I can't mess with the apl to show the diff
If and when, you have time i would love if you could look at it, No stress though ❤️
magic ruin
when the ilvl increases next week(?) we're gonna fall even more behind cause we dont scale
cant wait
swapped to Assa for a few pulls today on sprocket and i fell asleep
lilac stag
I could be wrong, i havent looked that much into it, but that made sense in my h...
Watch it not proc on MM Hunter lust
shut ridge
back to the m+ mines… was a nice couple of weeks
hazy breach
Its probably 684, but not sure
proper latch
Accidentally hit Stix with the ball instantly and got 98 parse. Seems like a secret to parsing in this boss
junior prawn
not a secret
blissful parrot
when the ilvl increases next week(?) we're gonna fall even more behind cause we ...
Why doesn’t sub scale, and where are you getting this info?
Genuinely curious
brittle plinth
It gets repeated on this disc enough, I suspect it's tribal knowledge.
wide kernel
Because haste I guess
void ocean
Accidentally hit Stix with the ball instantly and got 98 parse. Seems like a sec...
4th scrapmaster looks at u... xD
molten citrus
when the ilvl increases next week(?) we're gonna fall even more behind cause we ...
Scaling is cap
short radish
Why doesn’t sub scale, and where are you getting this info?
but makes sense that we "scale less" right
since we've only gotten weaker as the patch has gone on
?
molten citrus
since we've only gotten weaker as the patch has gone on
because everything else got buffed
random hare
sin > sub st now??
molten citrus
dusk nest
you guys think we got buff someday 😿
edgy zenith
!tricks
wicked joltBOT
Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
sometime between now and the end of time?
sure
theres a chance
solemn lance
I did that blizzard survey about blizzcon. Every written response was about them acknowledging that sub rogue exista
wicked urchin
Is sub decent on gally? I'm not in on mugzee so maybe I just don't swap
short radish
Is sub decent on gally? I'm not in on mugzee so maybe I just don't swap
it lines up with adds well
but assi probably more boss damage
gally is a joke anyway
fiery pewter
I did that blizzard survey about blizzcon. Every written response was about them...
Blizzard entirely forgot and dumped an entire franchise, do you think they care about 1 Rogue spec
short radish
so just play what you want to play
pliant topaz
Why doesn’t sub scale, and where are you getting this info?
okay real answer to this is kinda 2 parts. 1) as others mentioned you just are weaker because other low performers got buffed, so you look worse (not actually worse than you are now , just compared to others)
2) as to why sub slows down a lot in its power curve with gear is because the main things that impact subs damage is tier, trinkets, main hand dagger. moist of these are kinda secured by now, the other parts of gear dont really impact your damage by much. though this is kinda the same across most specs, but some have slightly better scaling with more stats than others
wicked urchin
I guess it doesn't really matter since it's gonna get obliterated when we get there with all the power we get
pliant topaz
play elden ring
wicked urchin
pc is out of commission so have to play on my macbook
no elden ring
ill just sit here and be salty i guess
wicked urchin
ill just play more slay the spire i guess
pliant topaz
fiery pewter
Roller Coaster Tycoon still slaps
delicate wind
d2
tardy badge
woah ur details looks cool, any chance you can share with me please? ^.^
random hare
ping me tomorrow ^.^
tardy badge
if i remember i will ty! o7
random hare
^.^
worthy relic
can someone share the fixate for vanish wa for bandit?
sullen hare
It's a command in here somewhere
!vanish
!bandit
!fixate
Nevermind I'm spreading misinformation I guess
pliant topaz
gratz! huge
lilac stag
It's a command in here somewhere
lilac stag
can someone share the fixate for vanish wa for bandit?
click link above
lusty yew
Is it true that Sub loses 10% of its damage by being Night Elf instead of Orc or am I being gaslit?
sullen hare
Bold claims require bold evidence. Data says otherwise
lusty yew
Do you know off top what the % diff is ?
sullen hare
It's math% percentage
Whatever the race of your rogue if its not earthen it ain't on the bottom
sullen hare
I'm on my phone but thats what
1.9% literal worst from the top to bottom?
Sub loses more damage from being in a raid without a shaman than it does from being the wrong race
worthy relic
click link above
Ty
fallow nimbus
Did your raid spawn adds? We do an addless coin rotation and it sucks
haughty rose
Good Morning
With the dinar system coming next week (and nu sub buffs) will i finally be able to dump the PvP trinket for HoC?
Second week in a row where HoC dropped neither in my HC kill nor in my normal kill 🙂
in 2 30 people raids btw lmao
and the week prior to that i rolled a solid 19 lmao
short radish
Good Morning
With the dinar system coming next week (and nu sub buffs) will i fi...
you will buy HoC with dinars and it will drop the week after in your vault with speed on it
random hare
are you still selling soup? can i get some?
Tomato soup is available 
u can have some
vale pine
Good Morning
With the dinar system coming next week (and nu sub buffs) will i fi...
house of cards is probably the highest value item you can buy for subtlety, so yes
tribal blade
haha it's not so much the pulls
it's just 1 thing goes wrong
anywhere in the dungeon
it's kinda over
i was a few seconds off timing it last week
but we had 4 deaths
keen dome
Bleh 😦
tribal blade
this is one of those keys that's gonna be massive dopamine when i time it
keen dome
Hell yeah
I imagine it'll get a lot easier next reset but I imagine you want it done this one
I believe in you 
alpine wraith
just in case remember if you have any hero gear
and can upgrade just send it
next week they uncap crests
keen dome
Ye
alpine wraith
i have also been hoarding leather and other things to get ready
keen dome
I'm excited for next week. I'm gonna go so high. 673 atm, two champ items (Circlet, HoC) and the rest are 675 or 678. One hero tier item (Chest) too.
keen dome
Ye
alpine wraith
i got the 13 off kekw
keen dome
Let me grind Mug'zee for them instead, Blizz!!!
Funny raid groups are way better than funny M+ groups
keen dome
It'd be so good
Cycle through loads of different mug'zee / gally groups to farm 15 crests
You'd get to see the most magical things
clever delta
learned hard way 😄
wide kernel
so if you get a shadowcraft proc before you apply FW?, do you send storm and then the finisher?
glacial hinge
Id say yes cuz of the debuff benifit in the long run? No idea thats how ive been doing at least, dont want to sit 10s without debuf
rocky ocean
plush roost
Blessed with Myth HoC, bandit bracers, rik dagger today
Solid reclear
Sub stocks rising
void hound
meanwhile im blessed with 30 pulls on bandit without spawning adds 😭
heady wing
Hello everyone, very fresh to rogue and especially sub spec, have a question about usage of symbol of death, shall I use it only during bursting windows, or I can also use it when my dance and other abilities on cd to pair it with secret techniques?
void hound
its possible to send symbols and sectec
as long as you dont impede on your dances/burst windows
heady wing
Got it, thanks
tepid trellis
general rules are 1 sod per 1 dance
so you need to make sure that you can always fill that requirement
and we dance back to back with flag/blades
so you need to be able to use 2x sod for that window always
heady wing
Thanks for answer
thorny ridge
!fuu
solemn lance
In our mini cd dances sech tech would be 2nd finisher correct
Only first in flag sb window?
lilac stag
in general if it’s up and ready just send it. You want it on cooldown asap for CDR
haughty rose
you will buy HoC with dinars and it will drop the week after in your vault with ...
Damn right it will. But it won't if i don't buy with dinar
haughty rose
Thanks for answer
are you the guy i checked their logs yesterday?
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
heady wing
are you the guy i checked their logs yesterday?
I just lvled my rogues few hours ago
short radish
Damn right it will. But it won't if i don't buy with dinar
schrodingers loot
or something
i crafted neck on my paladin because i got sick of farming cinderbrew
then it dropped the very next cinderbrew i did
haughty rose
I just lvled my rogues few hours ago
ah ok
i was just wondering
haughty rose
i crafted neck on my paladin because i got sick of farming cinderbrew
i always took sparks from vault and got myself a waist bc cauldron didn't drop
let's see if i can get into a mythic pug this week for the first time. if i do the waist will drop, no doubt
short radish
of course
i'm also going to craft a dagger next week
because free crests whatever
haughty rose
but idrc anymore as long as i can finally dump the pvp trinket for hoc
haughty rose
and rik hasnt dropped a dagger for me yet
on heroic i got it 2 times in one kill lmao
rolled on both and was the only one who rolled for it
lilac stag
then it dropped the very next cinderbrew i did
You were gonna use the crests anyways and sparks don’t really matter at this point.
yay 2 necks
junior prawn
Finally got my BiS trinket before it get hero HoC 😍
lilac stag
like a weird double chin
junior prawn
bro pvp trinket being actually a good choice in pve is such a joke
but its either that or hero transmitter 🤢
wild vine
junior prawn
ye it beats having transmitter not even on myth
lilac stag
Transmitter is toss in the bin. Just the general status of a 90sec agility spec with limited trinket options.