Are the crests hardcapped? Like you can only get 90 runed crests and if you spend them you cant get more
#subtlety
oak grotto
void ocean
when is catalyst coming btw
slate lantern
Are the crests hardcapped? Like you can only get 90 runed crests and if you spen...
yes
willow pawn
when is catalyst coming btw
you should have two this week
left ledge
Wtf is this even from
slate lantern
Wtf is this even from
delverinossss
left ledge
The new ones only?
slate lantern
no iirc the delve pool is updated with new and old gear for all of them?
willow pawn
The new ones only?
that trinket has a crazy uptime too
left ledge
Aaaaaaaa
willow pawn
friend had avg of 40% uptime in keys
left ledge
Well hope I get lucky with that
willow pawn
in like 6 keys
void ocean
you should have two this week
i think i have only one
left ledge
Don’t know why a max heroic trinket gets shit on by last tier mythic
willow pawn
get 2k
slate lantern
They’re all so shit for us
i mean its basically like you need transmitter or HoC, and then the 2nd slot there are actually quite a number of good passive or double on use options
slate lantern
Don’t know why a max heroic trinket gets shit on by last tier mythic
cause transmitter is bad and bad for the game
left ledge
i mean its basically like you need transmitter or HoC, and then the 2nd slot the...
Yeah I’m never getting house of cards unless it’s vault
It’s bis for too many people
hoary lotus
What
left ledge
And is barely better than transmitter for sub
hoary lotus
It's literally only bis for sib
left ledge
???
slate lantern
It's literally only bis for sib
???
hoary lotus
What other class has 1.5min cds
willow pawn
if you are in a RC loot guild youll prob get House of cards before anyone except warriors atm
left ledge
LOL
proven plover
xdd
twilit phoenix
What other class has 1.5min cds
Dks and ww
void ocean
yea, no
left ledge
Mage, dk, ww, dh, warrior, warlock
hoary lotus
Nah only sub
willow pawn
WW or Dks wont get cards over a sub rogue
twilit phoenix
It’s plenty bis for everyone
left ledge
willow pawn
in a legit guild
left ledge
Bro is spreading propaganda in hopes of securing the trink
hoary lotus
It's not propaganda
left ledge
WW or Dks wont get cards over a sub rogue
Why wouldn’t they
It is flat out more dps on them
hoary lotus
Ant real guild is prioing sub for cards
willow pawn
sub rogue overall better dps in raid atm than those two
left ledge
Cards is a literal dps loss until mythic
willow pawn
and better boss damage
twilit phoenix
Cuz no one has gear yet
proven plover
Cards is a literal dps loss until mythic
If u have transmitter
proven plover
Some ppl dont
left ledge
But that’s why I said I won’t be getting it
Any real guild has a sub rogue with transmitter by that logic
twilit phoenix
Giving your rogue a cards is trolling
willow pawn
well yah every sub rogue has transmitter
twilit phoenix
It’s like less than .5%
left ledge
Yeah cards is just not going to a rogue first
twilit phoenix
as bad as it feels
willow pawn
its not going to rogue first, but it will go to rogue over a WW or dk
twilit phoenix
It most certainly will not over a dk
willow pawn
it will go to warr or mage first
left ledge
Well yeah
random comet
ah but do the sims allow for me literally not geting the buff at all sometimes? let the loot councillors think about that
willow pawn
maybe not even mage but warr for sure it will
left ledge
ah but do the sims allow for me literally not geting the buff at all sometimes? ...
What buff?
rocky ocean
World of Warcraft has begun
left ledge
Why are you not getting it
random comet
HoC is a bigger upgrade than sims suggest 😛
proven plover
I dont have transmitter and currently use 2 onuse trinkets. Hc cards Sims 65k or 3.64% for me
random comet
because im bad and sometimes lose the orb in the crazy spell effects
bleak night
if you actually straight up dont get it sometimes then i think it might be worth using that other trinket you posted earlier lmao
left ledge
I turn backwards for it
twilit phoenix
Watching orb fall off of sprocket 😎
random comet
im kinda joking, the actual answer is to get good
twilit phoenix
Cuz I fucked up position
random comet
im just complaining about having to think about things
left ledge
I mean if you’re not comfortable with transmitter
random comet
i just want to macro and blast
left ledge
Comfort comes over sim dps
Every single time
I still macro cb to sectec
Because I just cba otherwise
twilit phoenix
Bro if I get heroic hoc next week in vault
I’m taking it over a myth track item
On god
full wyvern
Shuriken Storm with Flawless form up on 3 or more targets question.
Its worth doing with just 1 stack of flawless or wait until higher stacks?
random comet
test for you all - where's the transmitter orb?
tacit aspen
Shuriken Storm with Flawless form up on 3 or more targets question.
Its worth d...
you just do ti for cdr on shadow step and our main move lol if orgot its name, you get more combo points and therefore more cdr. the onyl time flawless form stacks interact with anything is when you have full stacks you soemtimes black powder
tacit aspen
you just do ti for cdr on shadow step and our main move lol if orgot its name, y...
whatst he one with the blue faced guy called?
void ocean
did anyone else notice that sound on Monka boss in Cauldron somehow overrides the entire master channel, cant hear any of my WA
vernal surge
!wa
wicked joltBOT
wheat elk
!up
wicked joltBOT
dusty fjord
does anyone know of any wa's/addons that display what abilities i am hitting so i can rewatch/stream my rotation? (not a rotation helper, but displays but my casts)
swift tinsel
should be a details plugin that does that
can probably find a WA pretty easy on Wago
proven plover
which weapon enchants are you guys running?
vale pine
test for you all - where's the transmitter orb?
after closer inspection, i found the orbs
random hare
hello raid buffs
vale pine
hello raid buffs
nicu
random hare
it was a deplete on 1st boss but hey im gonna fly way higher later into the key
floodgates mega aoe key
empty hornet
twilit phoenix
idek if the coin mechanic is that huge on bandit
i try to get a buff before jumping into cds
but uptime outside of cooldowns doesn't really matter
random comet
after closer inspection, i found the orbs
illusions!
twilit phoenix
!up
wicked joltBOT
paper iron
hello raid buffs
what is that
slate lantern
what is that
big ol numbies
paper iron
floodgate m0?
Also wanna point that he was alone doing aoe 
do the same with elem + boomie or something
unkempt basin
You're not alone. Basically the skill is useless for closing the gap on this fight until it's fixed.
slate lantern
Also wanna point that he was alone doing aoe <:happy_holiday_pepe:90808727654487...
why you gotta yuck his yum
runic sinew
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
paper iron
why you gotta yuck his yum
Cuz it s zero and we like eachother
slate lantern
prove it, kiss and send a video
paper iron
I could leak DM's but that would be against the tos i think 
vocal narwhal
I saw a debate, and i just got curious. What is stronger this season sub or fire mage (i know it's early in, but like where we stand now)
paper iron
to me both are top of the bucket, cant say one is better than the other without a bias toward rogue
devout basin
- Is sectech around the target its cast on and if the mob moves will the clones miss? 2. Is nimble fury aroud me or target its cast on?
tidal copper
How well does Sub handle target swapping? I know it’s not as dot heavy as Assassination, but trying to help out on adds in raid seems like an exercise in futility
swift tinsel
so if the mob moves your clones can absolutely miss
vocal narwhal
to me both are top of the bucket, cant say one is better than the other without ...
Okey, i tried sub last season and i had a hard time with energy, like i felt i was always out sort of. So i had to just wait to do more damage
devout basin
so if the mob moves your clones can absolutely miss
ty
swift tinsel
Unless the mob has flag on it you can pretty much swap freely whenever
tidal copper
Unless the mob has flag on it you can pretty much swap freely whenever
Ok, so inside CDs no swapping, but outside is fine
Not that there’s much damage outside of CDs
paper iron
Okey, i tried sub last season and i had a hard time with energy, like i felt i w...
It s sub, it s kinda the same as mage in reality : in CD u spam buttons u jump arround u happy, between cds u stack up skb / dances and chill
simplified it a lot but that s about it
twilit phoenix
bab is WW back
swift tinsel
even if youre just using Dance/Symbols you can freely swap
its just Flag that kinda locks you to a target
midnight folio
Unless the mob has flag on it you can pretty much swap freely whenever
why tho, flag just gives mastery and dmgs by itself
tidal copper
bab is WW back
Yes
slate lantern
bab is WW back
midnight folio
you can flag a target and swtich no? (for some random reason)
vocal narwhal
simplified it a lot but that s about it
okey thanks, so its just the way the class is
twilit phoenix
you can flag a target and swtich no? (for some random reason)
no don't do this bro
paper iron
its just Flag that kinda locks you to a target
why so, isnt just flag stacking on you and dealing dmg to the target its applied to even if u hit something else?
that s how it was in SL, dont know so much about it now
swift tinsel
flag is a debuff
on the mob
and you spend cp to build stacks on that mob
which gives you the buff
midnight folio
yes, but it doesnt amplify anything
it just tracks cp spent and gives the appropriate dmg and buff
paper iron
imma test something on dummies
twilit phoenix
will have to test, honestly thought you needed to stick to target
midnight folio
i mean im asking
midnight folio
will have to test, honestly thought you needed to stick to target
been that way since SL
twilit phoenix
afaik it's target locked, but could be wrong
paper iron
yea i just did flag the pvp dummy and rushed to the pve one just to make sure it wasnt nimbled or something, it looks like u dont care about targetting your flag
midnight folio
i mean im asking
bc maybe im missing something
paper iron
i must miss something or idk
swift tinsel
I'm 99% sure it was target locked at one point
never bothered to check if they changd that
slate lantern
we need some real subtlety players to tell us not this outlaw gang
swift tinsel
the more you know
paper iron
it wasnt back in SL when i started playing it back in... S2 something like that? When they mde the legendary worth
oh but nadja or something was stacking on attacking the target flagged i think
but since we were playing draven or TEAothar
midnight folio
pretty sure its always been like that
strange chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vagrant stone
!SOD
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
rocky axle
!wa
wicked joltBOT
chilly falcon
whats your average dps on m+ 7 rn guys? just to compare, idc the dungeon
im 632 ilv doing around 2M and feels like shit tbh but i think my rotation is pretty solid
alpine wraith
depends on party
midnight folio
on lower keys you can overlap cds and kinda waste their value
alpine wraith
from 2m to 4m
chilly falcon
Are you toping on dps? Or palas and shammans destroy you
keen dome
Also if the tank decides to only pull one pack at a time, to personally spite the Sub rogue
jaunty heath
Yeah but I thought you need to be in the target
alpine wraith
and if target dies early it just pops early but you still have the buff
jaunty heath
To stack it up
alpine wraith
what dou mean be on the target
jaunty heath
tidal copper
I think the question was whether or not it would stack if you targeted and attacked something else
jaunty heath
Ye
alpine wraith
how do you think stacks with bp and snd work then
tidal copper
I don’t have the first clue
jaunty heath
Do I look like I press snd
tidal copper
Does sub struggle at low target counts? I crush ST and hold up well at high target counts with Black Powder, but like 2-3 targets and I get crushed
vale pine
Since when is flag not target locked
never was
jaunty heath
Holy guess I never noticed since I just flag the prio target regardless
But potentionally good to know
swift crest
Does sub struggle at low target counts? I crush ST and hold up well at high targ...
sub is really bad at everything but patchwork
swift tinsel
That's my fault then, for some reason I thought it was needing to hit the flag'd target with spenders
twilit phoenix
sub is really bad at everything but patchwork
????
rain ingot
!guide
swift tinsel
yeah that's just wrong lol
twilit phoenix
sub is giga pretty much everywhere
slate lantern
these outlaw players smh just spreading disinformation
twilit phoenix
Does sub struggle at low target counts? I crush ST and hold up well at high targ...
if you don't have cds, then it's a RIP
swift crest
sub is getting diffed by bleeds with 10% of the effort required
chilly falcon
Coup de grace is a must to use when its available? I mean if there are more than 7 targets
swift tinsel
idk I'm usually miles ahead on ToP first boss
twilit phoenix
sub is getting diffed by bleeds with 10% of the effort required
yeah I love doing fake execute damage
swift crest
but u love the infinite therory craft of the sub rogue
tidal copper
if you don't have cds, then it's a RIP
Which CDs do cleave or AOE damage?
twilit phoenix
but u love the infinite therory craft of the sub rogue
if anything, outlaw has the most complicated TC
twilit phoenix
Which CDs do cleave or AOE damage?
sectech is your biggest one
but you're gonna be cleaving hard with evis and shadow strike with nimble up
if it's 7+ targets you're BP'ing
vocal lantern
If I am a m+ andy rarely playing raids, would you recommend sub or sin? (getting into pugs-wise)
twilit phoenix
if it's below 7 targets, you're eviscing
swift crest
If I am a m+ andy rarely playing raids, would you recommend sub or sin? (getting...
god no
sin is so good and easy
dont even need kingsbane anymore
swift crest
bye
vocal lantern
twilit phoenix
jarvis play with this guys balls till he giggles
keen dome
Getting rid of transmitter is a glorious feeling.. Just did massive damage on heroic Vexie witohut it haha
One less thing to think about
swift tinsel
Ayyy you get a House?
swift tinsel
Noice noice
slate lantern
twilit phoenix
Which CDs do cleave or AOE damage?
basically, don't be BP'ing at anything less than 7 targets
prioritize eviscing
tidal copper
Yeah I don’t, but it just doesn’t feel like I’m doing much AOE damage between 2-6 targets
vale pine
Holy guess I never noticed since I just flag the prio target regardless
basically how it works:
- You need a target and need to be in range of it to use the spell
- If the target dies before you reach max stacks you trigger the 2nd part of it and they become stacks for the typical duration.
- You don't need to use finisher on the target to generate stacks
so there is still a little bit of thought to it
tidal copper
Maybe it’s just bc I’m using Cds on bosses so there’s nothing left for adds that spawn
swift tinsel
ah, yeah if timings aren't lining up well with add spawns it's gonna feel a lil bad
are you thinking more in an m+ or raid sense?
tidal copper
Both, but I think it’s most noticeable in M+ when I don’t feel like I’m doing much till there’s enough targets for BP
The AOE till that point feels nonexistent
eternal abyss
OTP Assa here...
Gonna give Sub a try. When in raid and switching between ST/AoE fights, on Assa we'd normally switch Caustic with Internal, but what's the case with Sub. What do we change, or there's no changes?
twilit phoenix
Both, but I think it’s most noticeable in M+ when I don’t feel like I’m doing mu...
your biggest explosions regardless of target count are your sectechs
fallen crescent
The AOE till that point feels nonexistent
U playing trickster?
tidal copper
U playing trickster?
Yes
twilit phoenix
the juiced sectechs in your cd windows are gonna do giga dam
swift tinsel
Outside of big sectechs we're kinda just hitting prio targets and letting nimble cleave off, so your prio target damage will be high even if your overall aoe isn't
spice matrix
sub is really bad at everything but patchwork
swift tinsel
but sub strength is very much single-target and the cleave is a bonus
jaunty heath
sub is really bad at everything but patchwork
Sub is probably one of the best specs at anything besides patchwork 
swift tinsel
and we don't have to trade off one for the other
fallen crescent
sub is really bad at everything but patchwork
swift crest
in terms of ease of play i stand correct
twilit phoenix
in terms of ease of play i stand correct
https://tenor.com/view/the-rizzler-rizzler-black-panther-costco-guys-lebron-gif-13487563474626765619
swift tinsel
that being said, if you full send cooldowns on an aoe pack you're gonna fuckin blast
fallen crescent
eternal abyss
but sub strength is very much single-target and the cleave is a bonus
So I can just play the ST Build posted in the Pins and use it for every fight in raid?
swift tinsel
pretty much, since we're playing imp storm over shadow focus
idk if the pin build has it, haven't looked in a min
jaunty heath
in terms of ease of play i stand correct
What the fuck do you even mean
swift tinsel
any fight where you cast storm at least once for adds or bc you have to move out of melee range its worth it
eternal abyss
any fight where you cast storm at least once for adds or bc you have to move out...
What about Black Powder?
dry plank
guys can you link this table with set diff between old and new set?
twilit phoenix
What about Black Powder?
tbh I haven't pressed BP like at all in raid so far
eternal abyss
what about it
Do we spend CP's on it?
swift crest
bleed maxing diffs subs theory craft maxing
twilit phoenix
shit is too staggered for it to be worth in raid
swift tinsel
with 7+ targets yeah
jaunty heath
bleed maxing diffs subs theory craft maxing
I don’t see it diffing anywhere atm so idk
eternal abyss
with 7+ targets yeah
so like One armed bandit when all the explosives and Assistants spawn it would be good time to press it?
swift tinsel
if you have 7+ targets at that point, yeah
twilit phoenix
so like One armed bandit when all the explosives and Assistants spawn it would b...
i don't think you have 7 targets up there
swift tinsel
otherwise just rely on nimble cleave
twilit phoenix
at any rate, haptics is right
just have a tracker that shows how many targets you have in range
if it's 7+ , BP
eternal abyss
There's 4 explosives and 3 assistants, depends on the overlap and coin combo.
but yeah, definitely gonna need to take a coaching session*, sub is quite complex.
spice matrix
Only fight that looks like it warrants BP is Gallywix @eternal abyss
obtuse cobalt
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fathom gazelle
finally
rancid axle
are we not vanishing anymore during opener?
swift tinsel
cool I've been doing that for a bit and like it more lol
alpine wraith
that is fine too you just lose a bit of snd uptime
rocky finch
Is it better to have 4 P Tier from last season or 2pc current and 2 pc season 1?
alpine wraith
depends on ilvl on new 2p
swift tinsel
yeah I don't mind bc I don't feel like I ever get the omegalucky reset on the strike after vanish
rocky finch
445
crimson python
!wa
wicked joltBOT
fathom gazelle
if my tank is chain pulling all the time , is it ok to skip first dance? if so what talent to swap to?
fathom gazelle
kk
rocky wolf
is there some bugs with first dance, sometimes im in combat and it starts ticking down and lets me get a big dance
hazy breach
Yep its wonky as hell
rocky wolf
reminds me of the subterfuge bugs
midnight folio
generally swapping out wm for first dance is better for m+?
vestal escarp
hazy breach
TFD is also relatively close on ST 5 min sims
young mural
so for AOE we're swapping WM for TFD and shadow focus for imp shuriken storm?
lilac stag
Yes. SF is useless
alpine wraith
i know that feel
solemn creek
they see u top damage, and imagine pi is gonna be usefull
young mural
priests who send PI to sub rogues have to be braindead
dire saddle
We're preferring first dance over weaponmaster?
young mural
tbf they dont know that haste sucks
left ledge
so for AOE we're swapping WM for TFD and shadow focus for imp shuriken storm?
Pretty sure if you ever press storm, imp storm beats sf
So probably safer to just go imp storm anyways
lilac stag
SF is like 1 extra backstab.
I prefer the defensive you can take with Storm so I just run Storm everywhere. Your mileage may vary.
delicate gulch
is it worth to break tier 2 set`old + 2 set new?
willow bobcat
is it worth to break tier 2 set`old + 2 set new?
twilit phoenix
Keep it
might be kind of a dumb question, but how does first dance work in raid?
do we just not run it in raid?
only an m+ talent?
left ledge
is it worth to break tier 2 set`old + 2 set new?
If the ilvl gap is big enough yes so sim it
pliant topaz
might be kind of a dumb question, but how does first dance work in raid?
it just makes your literal first dance longer
hazy breach
might be kind of a dumb question, but how does first dance work in raid?
It works, but its only 4s at the start of the fight
hazy breach
So if the fight is longer than like 4 minutes WM is better
Yes
Also WM is way worse in aoe
(since it only does pure ST damage)
twilit phoenix
so you drop WM for dance in keys?
rough mirage
“Use backstab during premeditation in shadow dance for an extra macabre” does it apply to both ST and <7 AOE? Thanks
left ledge
How does tfd work normally is an even more interesting question
Seeing that shit at “2 seconds” then a boss is pulled
Then it resets
twilit phoenix
<:SCP106Wheeze:595366365205102615>
one of the best emojis I've seen fr
alpine wraith
yea it has a funky timer for sure sometimes
twilit phoenix
solemn lance
What kind of numbers are people pulling for overall on low keys. Loaded question but I feel like I'm getting whooped by some other classes pretty handily. Feels like I'm stuck below 2mil overall in 3s and 4s
sullen heron
in subletly rogue downtime,do we just press 1 skill until the burst comes back up? or how do it work?
late vine
does having find weakness on the whole pack increase the damage from nimble flurry?
late vine
gotcha ty
chilly falcon
Guys what to do with supercharge cp? can someone explain it to a monkey?
hazy breach
It makes your next finisher do more damage
late vine
you only weave in that guaranteed crit storm at 7+ targets right?
young mural
Eleem why do you know everything?
chilly falcon
It makes your next finisher do more damage
Yes and we obtain it by using symbols
So we always use symbols and first finisher is ST right?
midnight geyser
are you guys putting raid or m+ enchant on weapons
sullen heron
in subletly rogue downtime,do we just press 1 skill until the burst comes back u...
anyone?
young mural
are you guys putting raid or m+ enchant on weapons
i be using radiant authority
midnight geyser
anyone?
mamke surte you have 2 sod and 2 sd with sectec up for your next burst
you can usually fit 1-2 sod+sd+sectec during downtrime
sullen heron
is subletly rogue fast paced?
midnight geyser
durign burst yes
hazy breach
Yesnt
hazy breach
During burst yes, outside of burst absolutely not
midnight geyser
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
midnight geyser
wheres the chart that shows us how burst we are
sullen heron
im trying to see which alt i wanna play,still not sure beetween rogue or ww,i dont like moments where im energy starved or downtime
sullen heron
that is true,but isnt outlaw kinda bad rn?
sullen heron
well i do like hard to play classes
midnight geyser
im trying to see which alt i wanna play,still not sure beetween rogue or ww,i do...
outlaw
is very flat
never really starved
fast paced too
outlaw isnt bad on pen and paper
espeically if you can play it well
random hare
well i do like hard to play classes
Rogue and mage
midnight geyser
i love hwo alll of outlaw is here for this tier
random hare
Rogue and mage
Rogue is on the harder side for sure
rocky wolf
im having a lot of fun on sub atm, feels good
proper grotto
are the shadow dance + shadowstrike and vanish + shadowstrke macros etc still broken?
sullen heron
i love hwo alll of outlaw is here for this tier
what do you mean for this tier?
random hare
@hazy breach btw Maghar orc racial, any special uses for it or
What does the apl do around playing it
hazy breach
Uses it with blades
random hare
alpine wraith
etc
young mural
Like 2nd usage
bro zeross
young mural
are you lost
random hare
young mural
are you lost
here i was kind of being toxic
random hare
Most confusing moments 2025
random hare
well on st obviously it is obvious
oak hearth
oh nvm
young mural
uhh true
oak hearth
im cooked
swift tinsel
we should be more shadowy than that
vale pine
agree
oak hearth
why they change the icon of flag man i miss the old flaggy
random hare
Fuu
young mural
so fucking true, toxicity should be more on the #assassination
random hare
When no flag build?
vale pine
if anyone in the dev team reads this, consider adding a shadow themed poison
random hare
if anyone in the dev team reads this, consider adding a shadow themed poison
swift tinsel
slaughter
vale pine
i want a shadow effect during attacks from it
swift tinsel
but actually in-game
young mural
if anyone in the dev team reads this, consider adding a shadow themed poison
hell yhea
random hare
Wait
vale pine
When no flag build?
NO
random hare
I have a better one
random hare
If any dev is reading this, please consider not working for rogue again 
swift tinsel
Slaughter Poison turns Rupture to Nightblade
random hare
(Jk)
swift tinsel
swap it and goremaw
vale pine
that we can't do something like kingsbaneless on assassiantion
swift tinsel
jk don't do that
lethal thorn
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen dome
If a dev is reading this, please consider: posion toggle
alpine wraith
even if i told you goremaw hits for 5m
random hare
Goremaw reminds me of kush’s cooked ass builds
alpine wraith
5m every 45 secs is not even that good?
vale pine
If a dev is reading this, please consider: posion toggle
ohh thats a good one
young mural
jk don't do that
"KINGSBANELESS ASSASSIN" is the craziest statement i've read today
random hare
Guys
vale pine
also consider adding a sceeen effect for stealth
keen dome
Haha that'd be fun
vale pine
because knowing if you are in stealth is many times hard to read
alpine wraith
if a dev is reading this goremaw still does not cleave after you bugged it in beta
swift tinsel
like an edge aura similar to spectral sight
keen dome
Just have our character shout "I'M SNEAKIN'" non-stop tbh
swift tinsel
but make it purple
random hare
U ever get that feeling where ur too tired to take a piss but ur also too sleepy because ur full of piss so u have to piss but u can’t piss anyway
keen dome
can't say I have ever had that feeling of being too tired to piss but being too full of piss
random hare
But u eventually end up pissing so
vale pine
Just have our character shout "I'M SNEAKIN'" non-stop tbh
haha or a effect like the infinite tricks one above your head
swift tinsel
AND
vale pine
sounds like a good idea 
swift tinsel
get rid of perma-tricks floating icon
keen dome
Just Dave's face
swift tinsel
PLEASE
swift tinsel
"he's Davin'"
keen dome
"That's his stealth icon"
near obsidian
tricks icon is cool man
vale pine
i think the biggest irony is
i remember discussion people told me sub is not the stealth spec
even rogue mains
and i am like, moment
young mural
sub 100% the stealth spec ;0
keen dome
Rogue is the stealth class
near obsidian
sub is a stealth class but lowkey isnt going stealth less important for sub than sin
vale pine
bro, our spec icon is literally the stealth icon called "ability_stealth"
swift tinsel
bro, our spec icon is literally the stealth icon called "ability_stealth"
actually that's Dave
warm marlin
i remember discussion people told me sub is not the stealth spec
restealths are less important for this spec than the other 2 tho
swift tinsel
warm marlin
kinda cursed
vale pine
restealths are less important for this spec than the other 2 tho
i mean
swift tinsel
doesn't whispyr make videos telling people restealths don't matter for sin
keen dome
Sub has the highest stealth ability usage out of all three specs.
young mural
sorry fuu but you cant argue yourself out of that one
keen dome
No other spec uses stealth abilities as much as us
vale pine
subtlety has this extremely unique spell design
near obsidian
doesn't whispyr make videos telling people restealths don't matter for sin
isnt that objectively wrong lol
young mural
but still, subtlety is the stealth class
swift tinsel
isnt that objectively wrong lol
ask the guy writing the wowhead guide
keen dome
swift tinsel
and doing the apl work
warm marlin
doesn't whispyr make videos telling people restealths don't matter for sin
they don't matter as in chaining is better, but the other 2 specs both gain the most damage out of a restealth assuming you're unable to chain
vale pine
there is NO other spell in the entire game on a dps class that requires you to be out of combat for multiple secs to function
random hare
It’s annoying in m+
young mural
do you guys have 1 or 2 buttons for shadowstrike/backstab?
random hare
Global combat resets it
old venture
doesn't whispyr make videos telling people restealths don't matter for sin
It’s not that they don’t matter. It’s just they’re not as OMG MY DPS SUCKS as people like to believe
swift tinsel
yeah
keen dome
Yeah, same. one button.
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
near obsidian
is it suboptimal to have a backstab bind instead of a dance/backstab macro
swift tinsel
like your dps isn't completely contigent on it
old venture
Like proper chaining will beat it out for time efficiency every time
vale pine
**Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:**```#Showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast [bonusbar:1] ...
^ i can do this for backstab in dance
swift tinsel
I just have my binds next to each other and press them at the same time
robust igloo
!WA
wicked joltBOT
near obsidian
i rly just bind backstab to mouse button and hit that shit when it makes sense
old venture
I used to have binds, now I just have work. Keep on gaming out in my honor friends 😔
young mural
thanks fuu! now i have another macro to learn
plush roost
I just put backstab in the same place at my rupture key since we never rupture in stealth
young mural
I used to have binds, now I just have work. Keep on gaming out in my honor frien...
Will keep it up in your honor.
plush roost
I dread the day we go back to rupturing for a DM stack
keen dome
Getting rid of transmitter has increased my DPS by so much, haha
plush roost
Opener on tindral is ingrained in me still
swift tinsel
Idk I don't love the idea of gigantamaxing danse stacks
young mural
Opener on tindral is ingrained in me still
me staggering my opener for the roots
bleak night
make a talent that lets your danse stacks from your first dance carry over into your second but let you stack them again
omega dansemaxxing
plush roost
Remember shadowed rupture
tranquil garden
Snapshotting was an awesome mechanic and I feel like the game lost a lot when they got rid of it
bleak night
go play feral nerd
young mural
lmao
plush roost
Gottem
plush roost
Bro imagine the cursed technology with DS sub
plush roost
Lingering darkness + dark brew 7 stack danse stacked finality rupture snapshotting
plush roost
Cursed technologyyyy
swift tinsel
Bury. It. Deep.
plush roost
Honestly I'd kinda like that just to fiddle
See what its like haha
Like how many unseen blade stacks can I get in cds and snapshot a finality rupture at the end
tidal nacelle
noob question cant for the love of god figure out where the procs that give you full combo points after a finisher are coming from what is it called i read all talents and all passives
tidal nacelle
nice aa ok so thats the one
now i saw someone has a weakaura for it
anyone has it?
plush roost
Its based on your shadow technique procs
tidal nacelle
has like a gunshot when it procs
plush roost
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tidal nacelle
is there one that was counting how many targets there are around you?
young mural
is there one that was counting how many targets there are around you?
i need this one too
crystal rain
Do you Sectec before or after SB?
vale pine
probably should add it to !wa
crystal rain
or same time
tidal nacelle
https://wago.io/NyFFoF1mQ
cheers brother
vale pine
!wa
wicked joltBOT
midnight geyser
we fok outside of sd at 2+ right
midnight geyser
<:dracthyr_kek:1002454136706580620> still use it for a danse stack in dance
i was told not to
so like
my dance window should be
vale pine
i was told not to
we just recently found it to be a gain
midnight geyser
ss>sectec>bs>evi>ss>evi...
midnight geyser
ty
midnight geyser
i was thinking of using it when ss is being a bitch an only gives 5cp
but that makles more sense
is there any target coutn where we bp or shurkien stormin dance
for the stack
vale pine
7+
we storm ONCE
btw. any of the guides will answer all the questions too
just saying
midnight geyser
oh shi mb
tranquil garden
Thank f*** that backstab as the first builder is a damage bonus, because it's actually macroable into shadow dance unlike Shadow strike.
Saving my hands
midnight geyser
is macroable?
interesting
i dont think i would macro it, seems a little too automated
alpine wraith
yes shadowstrike you cant because it needs stealth
and they kinda broke triggers with dance
tranquil garden
Yeah, it needs some microscopic delay for shadow strike, which macros don't give you
Don't have that problem with backstab!
shy scarab
@vale pine was there a macro for sd and backstab and then it goes back to shadowstrike?
Remember i saw something here 2-3 days ago
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
vale pine
you can do this
tranquil garden
You could probably whip something up with cast sequence
vale pine
basically use your dance button for the backstab
tranquil garden
I've personally found cast sequence to be a bit buggy though
tranquil garden
Blizzard has somewhat intentionally made the macro language and abilities a bit bad
shell delta
wait backstab in dance is a thing again?
young mural
acoustic lodge
wait, since when?
vale pine
pure slate
shell delta
daamn why u had to edit it
acoustic lodge
ooh they must have been recently updated
vale pine
wait, since when?
not long
vale pine
ooh they must have been recently updated
yes
slate lantern
Blizzard has somewhat intentionally made the macro language and abilities a bit ...
good
vale pine
we just found out a few days ago
acoustic lodge
im about it
shy scarab
How big is the difference ?
vale pine
0.5%
acoustic lodge
does that mean gloomblade is coming back
vale pine
its not a bad talent
tranquil garden
good
Idk why that's good, it just pushes functionality from easy to make and edit macros to somewhat harder to make add-ons
shy scarab
Gotta remove my beloved shadow dance/shadowstrike macro then zzz
slate lantern
Idk why that's good, it just pushes functionality from easy to make and edit mac...
i meant stuff like cast sequence really shouldn't be in a game about pressing buttons as a skill expression in my opinion
acoustic lodge
Fuu, I assume this applies to M+ too?>
fathom gazelle
do we delay 2nd dance inside flag window if sec wont be rdy as 1st global?
vale pine
Idk why that's good, it just pushes functionality from easy to make and edit mac...
blizz does not want macros to be used for automation, they are afraid of people using one button macros or creating click bots
vale pine
Fuu, I assume this applies to M+ too?>
kind of
acoustic lodge
so medium
tranquil garden
Yeah I'm aware of the reasons. Point I'm making is just that a lot of this functionality is accessible through add-on scripts
vale pine
the optimization becomes fairly dps neutral on 7+ targets, so you can just strike there
tranquil garden
And it would be kind of nice to be able to do it in a macro instead because macros are a lot more accessible to write for most people.
vale pine
i mean its all a bit weird
shy scarab
Back in the days you could do a full combust on 1 cast sequrnce macro🤣
vale pine
i also wrote it in my macro section on wowhead
you can macro certain things
but most macros are not ideal
e.g. macro dance + symbols
is usually harmless
but you use dance back to back in your 90 secound cooldown window
and the 2nd dance will use symbols too early, potentially losing you damage
secret + cold blood
zenith egret
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
was a very nice macro, but we delay the cold blood cast for the 2nd secret in dance
so not doing so is 0.3 - 1% dps loss
what you can macro is
shadowblades with racials or cards (the trinket)
but many of the macros we typically would like to use are not optimal anymore
coarse hound
Ty for your commitment to keeping everything up to date bro
tidal nacelle
he's doing God's work
young mural
agreed, fuu appreciation time
acoustic lodge
rogue community is the best
rocky wolf
secret + cold blood
what i do now is my old sectech button is just naked sectech but instead of adding a CB button i just moved my macro to that spot 🙂
shell delta
BTW the macro in !bs Big letter S in Showtooltip makes it fucked up so i doesnt show tool tip on bars. Atleast for me. Changed it in small letter and works
young mural
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
vale pine
<@83652604344664064> doesnt rock that much though
i want his loot 😭
alpine wraith
remember to move the symbols 1 global so it does not waste rotten if it is talented
although i havent checked if you put finality there now
young mural
i want his loot 😭
is his loot insane? havent seen it lol
vale pine
he has 4p already
young mural
lol
vale pine
i am on 0p so far
young mural
crazy
vale pine
but we only cleared normal
acoustic lodge
is finality better with 4p?
young mural
i am on 0p so far
me too 😎 havent killed last 2 on normal
vale pine
is finality better with 4p?
it is very close, i need to actually check if finallity takes over now in st
shy scarab
You get 2 catalyst charge if you get 2k io or gally hc
acoustic lodge
Your DH is pumping
vale pine
me too 😎 havent killed last 2 on normal
i did hear heroic is a bit of a toughy this time around
young mural
btw enh still better than sub
acoustic lodge
no way
alpine wraith
last 3 bosses on hc are stronger than usual yes
slate lantern
i did hear heroic is a bit of a toughy this time around
i enjoy a nice aotc grind tho
young mural
i need a guild like rn
slate lantern
dont want the fun to be over too soon (never touching mythic ew)
young mural
who has me?
acoustic lodge
I think sub is better then ehance
slate lantern
man im still getting used to sub but pugging with tanks makes me so confused coming from outlaw. like do i just tickle the lil 3 pack of mobs that the tank inexplicably didnt pull into the next one? Do i send mini cds? but its fun to learn again
vale pine
i enjoy a nice aotc grind tho
last mythic fights might be not even beatable atm ^^
slate lantern
definitely a higher average age hahah
young mural
last mythic fights might be not even beatable atm ^^
yhea rwf is going to be interesting
young mural
i still dont understand why ret pally is insanely OP
dont even get me started on it, it pisses me the fuck off. class literally has 5 buttons and outdamages everyone
bleak night
it was useless for like a whole decade
young mural
so fucking crazy
broken swallow
is the mechano core sim bait?
coarse hound
@vale pine are we doing Exhilerating execution and not Ephemeral bond? no sure it makes a tone of difference
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> are we doing Exhilerating execution and not Ephemeral bon...
both is fine
scenic aspen
Should we still strive to hit our Flag window requirements in M+? Still figuring out CD timings but I find myself holding Dances for much longer than needed in order to make sure Flag windows are correct.
Or just making sure we have one Dance minimum for Flag etc.
random comet
<@194804407706189824> are we doing Exhilerating execution and not Ephemeral bon...
i feel like execution is better in keys and bond is better in raid but yeah pretty interchangeable
coarse hound
i feel like execution is better in keys and bond is better in raid but yeah pret...
This makes alot of sense
I just like to check when i see inconsistency
random comet
yeah i asked the exact same question a few days back in casualaddict's stream haha
it's a valid question
near obsidian
execution is nice when my healer randomly dies in my key
random trench
Question for big gamers, is crafted dagger bis or is it not after all
It not listed in BiS list on fuu's Wowhead guide but it is in fuu's spreadsheet sim
swift tinsel
Its good for early season
when you don't have a myth track wep yet
and once you get a myth track main hand you can move crafted to off-hand since only the stats really matter for that slot
vale pine
Question for big gamers, is crafted dagger bis or is it not after all
It not lis...
its bis
the ones on wowhead are without boe's
but i will make a note tomorrow or so
fallow nimbus
Or just making sure we have one Dance minimum for Flag etc.
1 dance charge and 30sec left on the cd before flag
vale pine
keep in mind
embellishments are rly low impact
so you can't rly go wrong if you put it on a low impact slot
scenic aspen
Ye I get that for ST but in M+ its a quite bit dynamic
But I'll still work on following that cadence
fallow nimbus
Ye I get that for ST but in M+ its a quite bit dynamic
It's the same just that you can dance and sectec more between cds
But cds are too important
scenic aspen
Gotcha okay. Just have to get used to negative tank damage when holding xD
swift tinsel
lol I just don't look at meters between cd's
might make a WA that hides Details when Dance isn't up
fallow nimbus
The time before cds is the worst
keen dome
might make a WA that hides Details when Dance isn't up
Genius
barren wren
guys, can you help me to find wa/addon that shows what buttons you pressed, I think Eleem had it in his guide video
hazy breach
guys, can you help me to find wa/addon that shows what buttons you pressed, I th...
Details
near obsidian
theres an action history wa i think
full acorn
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
hexed dagger
alpine wraith
not good
cedar eagle
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
chrome ginkgo
random question, does the AoE DR from feint affect environmental damage? Would you take 60% from environmental with feint? Or just the 80% from the flat DR?
swift tinsel
should just be the 20% iirc
keen dome
``` haha, hell yeahlfg so many good nerfs in there
tranquil garden
hmm, with backstab after shadow dance, is the rotten still the play over 1 point in finality? guess I'll hit the sims
cerulean moat
yall know if we use focsing lens in m+ too or something else for embellish?
upper narwhal
yall know if we use focsing lens in m+ too or something else for embellish?
duskthread is techincally better but like it makes 0 diff
embellishments stinky
tranquil garden
Rowdy Patron’s Rowdy Yell damage reduced by 33%.
thank god. that intermission phase had insane damage
swift tinsel
for me rotten still beats 1/2 finality but I think that changes with 4pc/better gear
even with bs/premed
upper narwhal
on god m+ is free now
keen dome
I was torn between M+ or raid pugging tomorrow but blizzard have decided for me.
swift tinsel
I haven't messed with Rotten in the apl yet tho
bleak night
I was torn between M+ or raid pugging tomorrow but blizzard have decided for me.
yeah this makes my goal of pugging a couple 10s significantly easier
or
keen dome
Yeah
solemn creek
God they added a shared cooldown for mauling/firestorm
bleak night
10% easier i guess
keen dome
I did Vexie heroic today and got a 97, so I'm feelin' good about pushing buttons.
upper narwhal
10% + everything bad is nerfed
swift tinsel
they forgot to add "expanded Blazikon's hitbox so it isn't total AIDS for melee"
solemn creek
Only priory last boss adds remains shit
upper narwhal
yeah idk why those ads need to fixate like that
swift tinsel
our Vexie heroic was so scuffed bc people were so slow on riding bikes
solemn creek
Those thing with 0 aggro table
keen dome
our Vexie heroic was so scuffed bc people were so slow on riding bikes
Haha yeah
I found a good pug for it and managed to actually do good damage. A big part was no transmitter though.
solemn creek
But i guess reseting her wnergy to 0 will help
keen dome
Just so much less cognitive load.
cerulean moat
duskthread is techincally better but like it makes 0 diff
so just send lens for raid?
upper narwhal
so just send lens for raid?
pretty much
solemn creek
We can evasion the last boss add. But when she was doing her look away.. u were just fked
upper narwhal
but like if you sim it there's almost no difference either way
swift tinsel
Didn't get 2nd vuln phase until 4:30
keen dome
Didn't get 2nd vuln phase until 4:30
😨
upper narwhal
yeah removing the overlaps on that boss transition is huge
warm marlin
key nerfs after all my vault already filled 
swift tinsel
Yeah, I was holding flag for so long it felt like asssssss
keen dome
Haha yeah
I cannot wait to see how nonsense damage gets on her when we're one-phasing her in a month
swift tinsel
and on Cauldron I had to babysit a bit on bomb baiting and laser aim so my cd's were not used very well
keen dome
Ye, same. It was a very scuffed kill for me. Most of the raid dead.
subtle jay
why 665 knife sims like that
keen dome
Pugs do not like to stack to bait bombs.
swift tinsel
not gonna worry about parsing for a few weeks lol
upper narwhal
why 665 knife sims like that
knife has always been great
swift tinsel
its SO easy if you just rotate clockwise, bait bombs near edge of prev bombs and aim laser on the slight right of the bomb
keen dome
We also had six? wipes 'cos someone aimed the beam in a way that made it impsosible to survive the knockback from the bomb
swift tinsel
so no one ever gets booped into it
subtle jay
knife has always been great
well why it's THAT great
keen dome
its SO easy if you just rotate clockwise, bait bombs near edge of prev bombs and...
Yeah, 100%
swift tinsel
Oh yeah we had a few where it was either get booped into fire/bad or straight laser death
keen dome
Yep, haha
swift tinsel
also Ring of Peace is suuuuper troll on visages
keen dome
Kidneying the add spawn on the edge felt good though, on gorilla
keen dome
lol, yeah
swift tinsel
for some reason RoP just insta-kills them and drops pools
hazy breach
for m+
twilit phoenix
key enjoyers are eating good this weekend
keen dome
Benefit of a pug is nobody else was stunning or handling them 
swift tinsel
plus some hefty targeted nerfs
You can feint-kill them if they're spawning in good spots to kill
you take like no damage and if your tank is awake/aware its zero issue
swift tinsel
I got yelled at for it lol
keen dome
But in pugs? A tank?? being awake / aware??? never
swift tinsel
"stop killing them" if you ever end up where it died, you fucked up
keen dome
Haha
swift tinsel
I felt bad for our RL though, you could tell he was herding cats
keen dome
Herding cats is 90% of raiding
thick temple
anyone know quick way to kill gallywix for quest? need heroic crest
swift tinsel
Lol true
paper iron
@leaden prairie no split i enjoyed my transmitter only 1 week
swift tinsel
lYuuuuuuge
sonic hamlet
whats the deal with the delves do we want to do one with a map for something in particular?
bleak night
anyone know quick way to kill gallywix for quest? need heroic crest
this week only way is in normal, next week story mode will be open
swift tinsel
whats the deal with the delves do we want to do one with a map for something in ...
guaranteed hero track loot
sonic hamlet
ah
swift tinsel
if you do it on an 8+
sonic hamlet
thats what keys are for 
swift tinsel
which is quite easy
inland remnant
<@352916297262301194> no split i enjoyed my transmitter only 1 week <:happy_holi...
give it to me pls
solemn creek
Dont need a key for map
swift tinsel
I still need to do one last 11
solemn creek
Just send it in 8+ . Its an extra chest
leaden prairie
<@352916297262301194> no split i enjoyed my transmitter only 1 week <:happy_holi...
wtf
swift tinsel
I already used my map, I still need one last gilded bounty for the week
young mural
skill issue bozo <:happy_holiday_pepe:908087276544876574>
nice one, put this piece of shit in his place
upper narwhal
9 7s timed fills gilded crests idk why people are so focused on t11 delves tbh
8s are free
swift tinsel
because I'm not doing 7's yet
alpine wraith
likely they get declined to all +7s
upper narwhal
fair fair
upper narwhal
i hate bran with a burning passin the less time I spend in delves the better
dumbass sits in poop on every boss on tank spec
swift tinsel
and doing enough of them offers more chances for tier in vault
upper narwhal
i did 8 8s for that reason and did not love it
upper narwhal
they can be fun, I just wish Bran wouldn't tank inside of poop that kills me in four ticks
swift tinsel
He sucks at tanking, healing is way safer
upper narwhal
i farmed the undermine delve and he did it on the last boss every time
swift tinsel
most of the time
brisk raptor
My secondary stats were heavily crit/mastery/haste for raid on assa last season. I’m enjoying sub a lot, think it’s worth to recraft some season 1 gear to vers/mastery instead?
swift tinsel
My secondary stats were heavily crit/mastery/haste for raid on assa last season....
you can always do a gear compare sim if you're thinking about it so you can see how much of a gain it is
vocal narwhal
Im trying to learn sub rogue, but in dungeons i feel like the first pull i can do alot of damage, but the next pull is horrible and so on, is this just the spec or me being ass
young mural
but s1 gear is getting trashed very soon so its meh
young mural
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
young mural
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you...
@vocal narwhal
you have huge burst windows and moments with 0 dps
just need to find where your CDs fit best
which admittedly is the hard part about sub in m+ tbh
vocal narwhal
Okey, i noticed. First pull was like 6 mill dps, and next was 500k