subtlety

[alpine wraith]

2 3 or 4 times if needed

[grand wyvern]

they gonna nerf tier set and ds gonna sweep ahead of trickster

[alpine wraith]

nah they cant nerf tier set

[tribal blade]

is sin in an ok place after the buffs

[alpine wraith]

our baseline is super bad

what it is still like 200k behind

is that fine?

or maybe more

no new sims yet

[tribal blade]

sub has an issue of not doing enough cd damage to warrant the downtime

[alpine wraith]

our burst is kinda good

[tribal blade]

it's good for sure yeah

[alpine wraith]

but kinda is not enough if outside you are doing super noodle dmg

[tribal blade]

there's no way to really buff sub's damage outside cds

[cloud rover]

Remember Sin being behind in Sims in S1?

but in raid being on par or better

[alpine wraith]

one thing that people will notice fast is how harder sec tech hits now that it gets affected by blades for aoe burst

[alpine wraith]

you mean after the 3 buffs

or before

[vestal escarp]

no cd and limited to one cast?

[alpine wraith]

they buffed assa DS then DS again then DS again then assa

[vestal escarp]

yeah i know sorry, too much sense

[cloud rover]

Sin is 100-200 behind rn

[alpine wraith]

i dont even remember how many times DS got buffed by now

[cloud rover]

iirc

and same thing for S3 DF

[alpine wraith]

ah right now who knows

[tribal blade]

from what i heard sin was down so horrendously bad earlier that it was in the "reroll" category in kush's tier list

[cloud rover]

where Sin simmed low

but was absolutely blasting

[alpine wraith]

it didnt blast anything it just had rogue power of being decent because our baseline was decent from last tier

then flatlined when real specs got gear

tbh sub had the same thing apart from smolderon

[brisk onyx]

they really like DS

[alpine wraith]

they do like it a lot

[cloud rover]

I like DN

[alpine wraith]

i dont building to 7 is so caner

and an auto crit evis is so boring

like really?

[cloud rover]

I like DN

for the Joke

of DN

[brisk onyx]

haha

[alpine wraith]

haha

[cloud rover]

Joe

mama

haha

gottem

[tribal blade]

damn you got me

but at least i've got updog

[cloud rover]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-wow-joke-walked-into-that-gif-14300929196982671524

[cloud rover]

i think candace got this one too

[tribal blade]

who's candace?

[short aurora]

[cloud rover]

Candace nuts fit in your mouth

[short aurora]

[cloud rover]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-calender-gif-15583441783995498400

[azure thicket]

[vestal escarp]

Candice?

[cloud rover]

well yeah

i think both variants are correct

[frank musk]

Back to spamming rupture... great times.

[smoky vault]

Problem with sub is that "pooling energy or cp" could be a tactic near big CD but ... Shadow dance brings you full energy and CP really quick so ... No real davantage.

[hazy breach]

You can pool sht stacks

[tribal blade]

having high sht stacks going into cds feels really good

you get a lot of shadowcraft refunds

it's the same as getting really good rng during cds and being able to back to back to back finish

[blazing brook]

hello sub brothers

are you the last stand of rogues?

or are we all doomed

[tribal blade]

blizz is generally pretty good about tuning rogue for raid

M+ is a whole other issue

[blazing brook]

and if i dont care about raid besides clearing hc with pug?

eh well

[clever delta]

And they don't let assa be behind much

[tribal blade]

no need to be scared because there's going to be a LOT of tuning in the next upcoming month

like, a lot

a lot a lot

[mighty citrus]

i just think assa does not get punished so hard from few seconds downtime when playing a mechanic as sub for example

so it comes down to encounters

but ofc maybe iam wrong 😛

in my had cdr specs are always fucked when you need to play abilities

[alpine wraith]

we have a lot of wiggle room as sub

even more now that we have several charges of everything

[clever delta]

We already do lot of wiggling on queen or court

[smoky vault]

Come on, be creative. Like, for example, buffing auto attacks with shadow damage outside of shadow dance (and consider the latter like pivot skill for up and down cycles)

[tribal blade]

i meant more in terms of tuning

you think they're gonna design new things for rogue, you crazy

[hazy breach]

I mean you could buff rupture, or give he spec an aura buff but nerf tier/dark shadow/macabre etc

I suspect theyll just buff plague damage even more though

[tribal blade]

exactly

"hm noone's playing DS again, better buff plague dmg by 50% again"

[lilac stag]

Just BP

Nothing else matters.

[alpine wraith]

deathstalkers mark already hits for 1.6m

with gear XD

another reason trickster is kinda better finisher buffs affects more things

DS is hunt them down and mark

[clever delta]

Man trisckter is so much more fun to play

But theme wise i like ds

[hazy breach]

Think most would agree with that

Deathstalker sounds cool but then you read it and its like "your auto attacks do plague damage"

[alpine wraith]

i mean deathstalker's mark is cool kinda

problem is things like fatal intent being a meme and hunt them down being so much of the power from the hero spec

[sly shore]

the problem is the mark being so inconsistent and buggy

and also for assa it's a fucking mess of a talent

[alpine wraith]

well people meant the idea behind the thematic

not the mechanics

in the end same as unseen blade everything would have been solved with 1 extra button

but it seems it is a sacrilege to even suggest people use more buttons

plenty of peoples handling explosives or heavy machinery losing fingers

[molten citrus]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

proccing UB on storm when

[slate marlin]

theme is 10/10, playing around a bugged mark or with so much less cdr feels awful

[vale pine]

haha ye, and then there is deathstalkers mark

[slate marlin]

and playing ds without shaman buff is reason enough to enter a psych hospital

[tribal blade]

the worst part is this is the fixed version of DS

remember DS during beta

[tribal blade]

*sub rogue

i dunno if they need to nerf skyfury and then accordingly tune/buff the specs that benefited from it

[hazy breach]

Its sub, sometimes arms and frost right?

[tribal blade]

sin as well gets a big bump i think

[slate marlin]

it feels easier to get x50 stacks on kingsbane with it

[tribal blade]

sin definitely benefits a lot, you just don't feel it while you're playing the same way as sub

or the other specs eleem mentioned

[slate marlin]

wish they made it 3% mastery and no hit chance

and then balance accordingly

[tribal blade]

but it's just ridiculous that you're SOL without a shammy as sub

[lilac stag]

It’s a pretty sizable gain for SV as well with mastery

nothing like sub

[swift tinsel]

Nerf skyfury, make snd buffed by mastery again

[vale pine]

snd was never buffed by mastery

[swift tinsel]

Yea it was

[vale pine]

but the idea was something we discussed

[swift tinsel]

Loooong time ago

[vale pine]

oh you mean before they re-introduced it

[swift tinsel]

Yeah the attack speed scaled

[vale pine]

fair

thats not bad

[swift tinsel]

Which would alleviate a skyfury nerf

[frank musk]

The day, the rogue buffs died....

[swift tinsel]

Or at least lessen dependence on it

[brisk onyx]

in WoD it does

maybe, or MoP

[swift tinsel]

Would probably have to sift through changelog to find when it stopped

I could see it being problematic with old shadow tech but with current it’s less so imo

[alpine wraith]

it was on wod

[frank musk]

The real problem to blizzard would be sub rogue getting played for 1% of the entire pop, instead of 0,8%.

That is how blizzard knows we became OP.

[swift tinsel]

I don’t think that would attract people to the spec alone lol

[lilac stag]

OP is when they have data to use on ptr/beta

[frank musk]

Nah that is the whole joke.

[lilac stag]

We ain’t there

[frank musk]

We dont exist.

[swift tinsel]

I need to find a ptr guild lol

[lilac stag]

People will play the spec when they can mouse wheel thier builder spender again in aoe

[keen dome]

Spin (mouse wheel) to win

make bladestorm tied to how fast you can spin your mouse wheel. More spins = more damage. Direct feedback.

[frank musk]

Tech giants like this man.

More broken mousewheels from overuse is good business.

[keen dome]

Slice and Dice buff tied directly to how much adadadadadadada you can do

[frank musk]

Shadowstrike tied to how good you are at cutting oranges on your own keyboard.

[keen dome]

Feint tied to how you can spin your chair around

[frank musk]

Evasion based on how often you can get away with not paying taxes.

[keen dome]

Vanish requires a webcam and you have to be out of sight of it

[lilac stag]

That’s tornado.

[keen dome]

Hahaha, yeah, good point

Distract tied to how quickly you can make trade chat change the topic

[lilac stag]

feint is literally feinting.

regain the energy while on the ground

just like goats

[frank musk]

Pickpocket tied to how often you can accurately datamine patchnotes.

[keen dome]

"Alright, did my burst. Night time"

Hahaha

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/goats-faint-darth-vader-star-wars-gif-13207164

[keen dome]

tricks of the trade actually just gives someone a buff to a crafting skill as it explains the tricks to that tradecraft

crimson vial is now a movement ability but only through walls.

[frank musk]

Tricks of the Trade's buff to a crafting skill will increase based on how often you ask people 'hows tricks'.

[frank musk]

Crimson Vial can now only be used to heal yourself, if you are wearing an authentic dracula costume.

[keen dome]

Oh yeah, I like that

[frank musk]

Kidney Shot will now give you extra profits in the 'Totally legal and safe organ transplant market'

[keen dome]

Sap just makes everyone miserable and opens some accursed software.

[frank musk]

It also makes Kidney Beans taste extra good.

[frank musk]

Sap will make you look cool, and the one you cast it on 'the sap'

[keen dome]

I think we're cooking a pretty good Sub rework here.

[frank musk]

I think were putting in effort, despite the fact it would totally not be great gameplay.

xD

[keen dome]

Shadow Dance now just starts the rocky horror picture show "Let's do the timewarp again" and it's a 3 minute long channel of the entire song.

[frank musk]

Black Powder casts will credit you with inventing guns, your stocks in the arms market will go up by 0,1% with every successful cast.

[frank musk]

Shadow Dance will make you do the Thriller dance in the Shadow Realm.

[keen dome]

IOooh, yeah, that's way better

[frank musk]

And everytime you die in pvp, you will get your ears destroyed with that song as if you are wearing ear plugs from the early 2000s.

Condition: must have shadow dance on CD when you die.

[keen dome]

Shadowy Duel starts a hearthstone match and the loser dies.

[frank musk]

Gloomblade will make your targets have crippling depression.

Secret Technique will make your target hear a random martial arts movie one liner at max volume.

[keen dome]

Oooh, hell yeah

[frank musk]

On crit, jackie chan will appear inside your house and round house kick you.

[keen dome]

Thankfully nobody plays Sub so he won't have to do it often

[frank musk]

Pressing stealth will force your opponent to contemplate death, debuffing their health for 10 seconds.

[keen dome]

Nah, they should act like a Thief NPC

"Just the wind."

[frank musk]

Guess thats why everyone in Skyrim with 100 arrows in the face say that.

It must have been the wind. It was so cold my face started bleeding.

[woeful rain]

in ptr as trickster, we BP on +5 or??

+8 i mean

[hollow spear]

I'm surprised that trickster performs better than deathstalker in the s2 sims. Based on the tooltips, I thought the general sentiment was the opposite?

Not complaining of course, I like Trickster.

[lilac stag]

You thought wrong

Trickster is burst. Tier is burst. They compliment each other.

[stone robin]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[plush roost]

Doesn't help that DS wants to use its marks, but 25~ seconds before flag you don't wanna press evis, so no DN unless u wanna gamble

Very cursed gameplay they've given us

[swift tinsel]

DS doesn’t hold the same as trickster

[alpine wraith]

as DS you cant even dance twice between cds

[void hound]

@hazy breach do i understand this correctly, we pool tier set stacks for our flag burst but not for dances inbetween?

[alpine wraith]

so that does not apply

[plush roost]

Saved thank the lord

[swift tinsel]

Dances between flag windows are less important than flag windows

[plush roost]

I shall take this knowledge and continue to grief ptr keys

[molten citrus]

i think DS is fine for aoe

[plush roost]

Oh the talents have nothing to do with my griefing :^)

[molten citrus]

oh

[lilac stag]

Trickz has pvp cooked anything? Or is it all the same since just tier changing

[void hound]

is this new? havent seen it before

[vale pine]

oh, eleem made a pin, great

DS is fine, but the tier set benefits burst

[molten citrus]

we are omega down bad

there's been zero pvp testing basically

just dueling homies

[leaden prairie]

Fuck pvp

I like you trickz

But fuck pvp

[void hound]

fuck pvp

[hazy breach]

Yes thats what showed to be the best in sims

[void hound]

i see, thanks for the write up

[hazy breach]

This way averages decent stacks in flag all the time, but its obviously still a bit random

[vale pine]

flagellation/blades holds a lot more power, so the trade off is more accaptable

[molten citrus]

don't make me do it zac !!

[void hound]

makes sense
it was conceivable to pool stacks for non flag dances too so thats why i ask

[hazy breach]

So if you have a really important burst coming up it could be viable to hold longer to absolutely make sure you have 10 stacks

[molten citrus]

@leaden prairie https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/TallInnocentTofuPupper-GmCq0Mkm7MB6YR_A

[void hound]

is sub output gonna be more or less rng overall?

[molten citrus]

[hazy breach]

But the "never use evis outside dance" led to too much lost damage

[hazy breach]

More than nerubar yes

I imagine every single class has noticeably higher RNG this patch since the tier sets are themed around randomness

Havent double checked though

[worn cape]

Can't wait to read the guides for S2.
It almost feels like a new spec.

[void hound]

i find the tier set pooling interesting, but im not looking forward to more rng

[vale pine]

there are not that many chanegs

[void hound]

also trickster being the way to go is great news

[vale pine]

as eleem wrote, most of the things stay the same

the main change is playing around the tier set

and you need to get the tier set for that ^^

[ashen ibex]

yes but is sub rogue meta? do i sell my house to go sub? do i equip 3 daggers 2 swords?

the party of pre-season is here

[vale pine]

3 daggers haha

[crisp pond]

sorry to disturb the current conversation, think transmitter will be needed in s2? trinkets in new raid seem meh at best

[vale pine]

transmitter got a slight nerf in the hotfix yesterday

it will still be good but you will replace it with mythic level trinkets

(house of cards)

[crisp pond]

i see, thanks sir!

[vale pine]

so its not needed, but still very good

[leaden prairie]

ok thats a good one tho right

[molten citrus]

if you had pvp trinket it coulda been better but it was ok sure

[plush roost]

I'm at least glad we can replace transmitter, so tired of standing on the platform for 4 seconds waiting for the game to realize I'm on it

[molten citrus]

battlegrounds are kinda shit imo

[leaden prairie]

the point was to play that teinket tho its a fun trinket

[swift tinsel]

did the mastery buff and removal of hasted proc of Sus Energy Drink improve its ranking?

[leaden prairie]

some fool gang up on you with the guzzler

what you do

[molten citrus]

trinkets are nerfed in pvp :p

[leaden prairie]

its fine

i think i still one shotted some with it

with the bug it didnt matter

if you proc the bug

piou piou

RATATATATATAT

[molten citrus]

idk nothin about all that

[leaden prairie]

RATATATATATATAATATATAA

[hazy breach]

It should

[valid flame]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[hazy breach]

But it doesnt matter really

Theres only 2 trinkets, Eye of Kezan and house of cards

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, just thinking as an intermediary

[hazy breach]

With current tuning that is

Its likely they change stuff

[swift tinsel]

I'm surprised they only hit transmitter with a 5%

[haughty mural]

hit it MOAR

[hazy breach]

Yes it didnt relaly change much

Its a ~0.3% nerf

So now maxxed out house of cards is better than 639 transmitter sure

[swift tinsel]

Maybe they're soft nerfing now so they can add more % once raid is live and people can replace earlier

[hazy breach]

But not by much anyway

[valid flame]

Do you ever press shuriken storm in ST for DM stacks?

[swift tinsel]

well thats good at least, I always thought they'd prefer people replace prev season's myth gear with s2 heroic

[valid flame]

as trickster*

[hazy breach]

No

You dont as deathstalker either

[valid flame]

ty ❤️

[hazy breach]

I dont think theres anything related to DM stacks left in the APL

So we dont play around it at all

[swift tinsel]

unless you're the guy trying to stack it to 12 all the time lol

[hazy breach]

Nvm theres using strike with premed+for danse stack for deathstalker

[brisk onyx]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[vale pine]

yep

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rJjrTDqY9aSMmRWsAoGpxF

trinkets this season seem kinda easy ^^

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[hazy breach]

Your trinket list is missing the new delve trinkets fuu

Most notably the energy drink one

[vale pine]

ohh

true

[steel zinc]

I think a couple a good delve trinkets are missing

[slate marlin]

Wait why finality>rotten?

[vale pine]

but transmitter ^^

[keen dome]

🙏

[slate marlin]

Dont we storm on aoe for fw with rott?

[vale pine]

set bonus

[steel zinc]

Even with the nerf? What about hc transmitter

[steel zinc]

Finisher dps

[keen dome]

We're a finisher machine

[lilac stag]

Full on finisonher spec

[swift tinsel]

rotten beats finality 1/2 in dslice for me

but idr the % diff

I think its like 1%

[keen dome]

Combo points go in -> big sectecs come out (sometimes)

[vale pine]

@hazy breach is there a list somewhere for the new delve loot?

[steel zinc]

Also sometimes sectech works with the tier set. Everything working as the gambling lord intended

[swift tinsel]

if you search for one on wowhead ptr it should show them down below the spelldata

[vale pine]

fair

[keen dome]

[swift tinsel]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=235363/suspicious-energy-drink

some of them look like overworld items too tho

[steel zinc]

That looks nice

[swift tinsel]

so its hard to say which ones are delve

[steel zinc]

Idk if it is worth farming delves for it

[hazy breach]

Once yes, but thats not something new, so its not mentioned as a new rotational change in the pin

[swift tinsel]

farming, probably not. taking as an alternative until you get eye or house? maybe

depends on what you have

[hazy breach]

Not sure, some might be quest trinkets too, but ive been told the energy drink one for sure drops from delves

[swift tinsel]

its hero track on ptr so I'd like to think its from them

unless they messed with itemization

[vale pine]

ill add energy drink to the trinket sims and transmitter

so we have both covered

[steel zinc]

Yeah but cba doing delves for hc vault gamba

[swift tinsel]

you don't do it for that specifically

delves are free hero track vault

plus extra crests

for early season shenanigans

[vale pine]

ye

its not abd, but also not insane

[swift tinsel]

is that at 665?

[steel zinc]

For 665 it's pretty good ngl

[vale pine]

yes

max item level

[steel zinc]

I am pretty sure they might buff house of cards

Looks imo to weak

[vale pine]

surely

[steel zinc]

Like that the hc one beats mythic transmitter

Other classes also are continue wearing transmitter

Warrior dk dh pretty long

[lilac stag]

Maybe not after the 5% nerf

very few had it as good as sub with that thing

[steel zinc]

Yeah but you won't replace transmitter depending on splits /lootluck until as warrior and dh w3/4

[lilac stag]

yeah. Drops ofc matter.

But also likely puts sub last on list for house

[twilit phoenix]

House of cards in first vault

It’s literally that easy

[vale pine]

the above sim has it in it

its 0.5% behind

should be with hotfix data

but ye, transmitter is good

[swift tinsel]

its almost too good

[lilac stag]

Didn’t know you were RWF raider. GG

[vale pine]

just works very well with subtleties damage cycle

[swift tinsel]

yeah, strong stats on a 1.5min cd that lasts for blades

perfect storm

[twilit phoenix]

I had boss order totally out of wack

Nvm the vault dream is dead

[lilac stag]

for most people in here you’re waiting for dinar to go live

[swift tinsel]

I know I won't see a myth track one unless I pug it each week

will the dinar version go to 6/6 myth?

or have they not said anything

[brisk onyx]

delete transmitter to get qol

[haughty mural]

a bit more nerf to transmitter and another (maybe from dungeon) 1.5min trinket toi bridge the gap to house of cards would have been neat

[mint swift]

Just make it a stat stick

[haughty mural]

but it is what it is

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

transmitter is fine. You’ll replace it eventually.

lol

[swift tinsel]

there's a handful of 1.5min dungeon trinkets but they're mostly just split damage on-use

[lilac stag]

one less thing to worry about.

ain’t no one wants to spam workshop 67 times for a heroic trinket

[fallow nimbus]

House > transmitter because no minigame

[steel zinc]

@vale pine when can we expect an update to s2 sims? Says 11.02. Ty for all the work

[steel zinc]

They are all pepega

[swift tinsel]

light version page 2

[hexed sluice]

Normal transmitter probs gets replaced a bit early don't it, cause I've still not seen a heroic one and I doubt this last vault blesses me

[steel zinc]

I know but has been ages since the update

We had apl improvements also sin tier set

[lilac stag]

They’re posted in assa

Fuu busy with guides

[mint swift]

Make transmitter just slow you to transmit messages to your buddies

[lilac stag]

Same with everyone else

[mint swift]

Bam

Problems solved

[worn cape]

I wonder if the dinar will let you pick a mythic item.

[steel zinc]

Yes it will

[vale pine]

the light mode has a s2 tab

[slate marlin]

well light mode doesnt count

for obvious reasons

[vale pine]

haha

[steel zinc]

I know but sims are 1 week old

[crystal bone]

[worn cape]

Could I pick the mythic eye since I will never get CE this season 😂

[hazy breach]

Yesnt, it lets you pick an item that starts at lfr but can be upgraded to max myth track

Just like how it worked in dragonflight s4

[steel zinc]

Will start Normal mode

[worn cape]

I kinda forgot about DF S4 tbh 😂

[golden kelp]

how many weeks till first dinar?

[vale pine]

what changed in that week, i assume assassiantions numbers went up because of tier set buff. The sub sims i rerun just realier

[hazy breach]

Nobody knows

[brisk onyx]

who knows

[golden kelp]

😦

[steel zinc]

Ok so updated sims for sub today I assume as you said

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[golden kelp]

pretty late into season I reckon

[vale pine]

seems sin numbers are still the same

[steel zinc]

Idk looks like a 4-5% dps increase

[mint swift]

Why would they change sin numbers? Hasn’t sin been a basis in math for quite a while now

[swift tinsel]

[steel zinc]

Tier set got today buffed for sin

[vale pine]

haha true

[vale pine]

its at 2220 from 2230 or so, very similar

[mint swift]

Oh jokes aside that’s good

I ain’t playing sub I think
So imma stick to sin or bm

[steel zinc]

Rly

[mint swift]

or

I could try different specs next patch

Maybe I’ll find one. I like more

[steel zinc]

Sin bm? Bruh whatever floats your boat

[molten citrus]

huh

[lilac stag]

almost like they have a pin for all of it. #assassination message

[mint swift]

BMs fucking awesome what you on about

[steel zinc]

They have its about the sheet

[mint swift]

I get to control a herd of beasts to kill people

It’s fucking awesome

[lilac stag]

at the bottom Whis says fuck off

[vale pine]

not sure if the tier set update is in sims yet

[lilac stag]

omg fuu sheet isn’t insta updated.

[brisk onyx]

This just makes new tier 2+4=old 2+new 2, so nothing actually changes

[lilac stag]

We’re doomed

[mint swift]

FUUU

[swift tinsel]

Its joever

[lilac stag]

How could you

[mint swift]

UPDATE THE SHEET

[swift tinsel]

reroll

delete wow

[mint swift]

actual scumbag

[swift tinsel]

fuu inting

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-doom-doom-marvel-gif-13119971873866860701

[leaden prairie]

It is

[sacred yarrow]

rerolling to dh rn

[vale pine]

i mean, i did re-run the sim for single target

and the output is the same

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-more-gif-21856591

[mint swift]

@leaden prairie noob

[lilac stag]

fuu

[vale pine]

ye

seems so

[sacred yarrow]

[leaden prairie]

It's like 2 h old

[mint swift]

Better be bengance

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[leaden prairie]

3 h

[lilac stag]

WHY ISNT IT UPDATED YET?!?!?

[leaden prairie]

Old

Exactly

[vale pine]

seems to be in

[lilac stag]

congrats assa. You’re just over Prot Warrior. Add that to sheet

[leaden prairie]

Yes

[mint swift]

@vale pine

[sacred yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpshit-mad-gif-12826934952903770254

[leaden prairie]

Real

Fuu get to work you absolute gababoonoob

[sacred yarrow]

(jk we still heart react you )

[vale pine]

https://tenor.com/view/warcraft-gaming-gif-27702118

[mint swift]

Imagine being told what to do by an outlaw player

Must feel awful

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-letterkenny-gif-16857255368297649542

[swift tinsel]

Job's done

[mint swift]

Something need doing?

[sacred yarrow]

me not that kind of orc

[mint swift]

Me busy!

Leave me alone! >:(

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/delta-ring-update-request-gif-25692441

[sacred yarrow]

:elevator music soundmoji:

[vale pine]

ye, seems like new 4p is now worth more

but 2p2p probably still better

[mint swift]

I think £1 is better

Tbh

[cyan lava]

when do i want to complete my transmitter task as sub

is it on shadowblades cast

[vale pine]

with cooldowns

[swift tinsel]

rightas youre about to sectech

[vale pine]

basically you can bind transmitter to flag

then try to complete the task as you go into dance/cast secret

[mint swift]

Fuu

Do you think sub has too many buttons atm

[vale pine]

vendeten

[cyan lava]

i do tbh

[swift tinsel]

should delete tornado then

[cyan lava]

i think they should remove flag

[swift tinsel]

NO

sh

[cyan lava]

its a bit redundant

[mint swift]

Make it give vers and mast

Like that one SL Lego

[vale pine]

i think sub has some redundant talents

[swift tinsel]

obedience

[vale pine]

i think snd should probably be passive

[swift tinsel]

would be nice without the CDR part

[vale pine]

but outside of that, button count seems fine

[mint swift]

Why don’t they just remove shadow dance and symbols and fuse them into one

[cyan lava]

i also think rupture feels extraneous for sub

[swift tinsel]

it does, should be nightblade again

[cyan lava]

its just a dot that like 2 talents interact with

[swift tinsel]

never forget

[mint swift]

I just have a problem with the CD amount

[lilac stag]

Play assa then

[mint swift]

And how you have to raw dog some of them at moments

[mint swift]

What do you think I’m doing

[cyan lava]

isnt snd basically passive anyway

[swift tinsel]

in that case remove cdr from dance

[lilac stag]

stop trying to homogenize the specs please and thank you

[sacred yarrow]

yeas but talented, not straight up

[mint swift]

How dare I voice my opinion

My bad

[lilac stag]

and your opinion is make it assa like

which is a bad take

Assa already pilfered enough from both spec

[swift tinsel]

there's already too much crossover

they should give us execute to compensate in the form of edge of night

[mint swift]

How would it be similar to assassination if SoD and SD we’re one thing

[mint swift]

True

Bring back shadow dust too

[lilac stag]

Kingsbane

[mint swift]

Everyone loved it

[swift tinsel]

"everyone"

[vale pine]

kind of but not fully

[swift tinsel]

why this exists

[vale pine]

you will never cast it unless

[lilac stag]

just one button. Having the ability to control cds is good. The CDR getting krangled is bad.

[vale pine]

lets say there is a specific tier set

you might cast snd

[mint swift]

I fucking hated it tbh

[vale pine]

or rupture

instead

[lilac stag]

and I hate outlaw.

[vale pine]

e.g. if you now hold for the set stacks

the 20-25 seconds

[lilac stag]

Some specs aren’t for everyone.

[vale pine]

you migtht need to cast snd

because snd does only proc from the same things

you don't want to cast

during that time

lovely, isn't it

[lilac stag]

poor dust lost because of waaaaaaaah dust bad

[mint swift]

I mean people didn’t like it

So it got removed

[lilac stag]

no the krangled cds were the bad part. Not dust.

[swift tinsel]

^

[lilac stag]

it just got targeted by apes

[swift tinsel]

dust fixed broken spec aspects

[lilac stag]

Wah dust bad

[mint swift]

I mean

[swift tinsel]

once timings were figured out dust wasn't bad

[mint swift]

People said they disliked it

So blizzard removed it

[lilac stag]

dust wasn’t the problem

it was the easy target

[swift tinsel]

scapegoat if you will

[mint swift]

Never said it was, just said peoplesdisliked it

And when people dislike something bliz usually removes it

[sacred yarrow]

sure but if their solution isnt better than what was before, maybe should've left it as is

[swift tinsel]

"Everyone loved it"

[mint swift]

True

[mint swift]

It was sarcasm x)

[lilac stag]

#subtlety message

[mint swift]

Ok?

[lilac stag]

seems like you targeted dust vs the problem.

[mint swift]

Saying you dislike something doesn’t mean it’s bad

[sacred yarrow]

snd has been cast for eons now, never was addressed, SB addressed in record time

[lilac stag]

so which is it?

[mint swift]

As you have been saying, it helped with the rotation when it was a thing

But I personally remember not enjoying it

And as I said

You can dislike something that isn’t bad

[keen dome]

Dust with the cooldowns we have right now would've been nice but also Dust was dumb and I disliked it for very valid and smart reasons (I'm bad).

I do really miss 1Dust Brew though. Absolutely my favourite M+ build ever for Sub

It felt so good to play

[lilac stag]

disliking something and not understanding why it was bad which is the case with subs root level problems and the dynamics dust offered and using it as this sucks it bad

[haughty mural]

tripple sectech trickster opener with dust was pretty ejoyable

[keen dome]

Yeah, it had it's moments.

[mint swift]

Yuh
But personally wasn’t for me

And I enjoy assassination more
Atm

[glossy turtle]

what are the conditions to use symbols+dance? is it just secret tech needs to be off cd?

[keen dome]

Dust with 3 SoD's would've been really interesting.

[lilac stag]

outlaw is bad because it flairs my fibro. I’m not gonna demand the spec get changed. I just won’t play it.

Sub is good on one boss with dust and the assa community decides delete dust because I’m forced to play sub.

[swift tinsel]

used with sectech

depending on flag's remaining cd

[mint swift]

Saying what you want changed doesn’t not mean you are demanding it be changed

It’s just me voicing what I would enjoy

[glossy turtle]

when will you say its fine to hold? im thinking for m+ btw 🙂

[swift tinsel]

I typically stop sending dance when flag has 40-45sec left on cd depending on cdr

in aoe you get more cdr so you can be a bit more liberal with it

[glossy turtle]

damn 40 sec

[swift tinsel]

hold sectech when flag <20sec

[glossy turtle]

you wanna cap dance and symbols then?

[random hare]

@hazy breach did sub tier get any changes last 2 days like sin?

[swift tinsel]

it depends on how many charges of either you have and what their remaining cooldowns are

[molten citrus]

nop

[molten citrus]

thats if you have 1 charge of dance iirc

[swift tinsel]

if you're sitting on 1 dance charge and flag is ~45 I think its safe to send

[molten citrus]

you wouldn't sit 2 charges for that long ain't no way

[swift tinsel]

nah

[molten citrus]

yeah

[glossy turtle]

but like given that you wanna hold off doing any dmg for 45 sec, I would assume it would be to cap all the buffs up

[molten citrus]

its to aim for 2 dances per flag

[swift tinsel]

if both charges of dance are on cooldown when flag is at 45 you should still be able to fit 2x in flag when its up

[glossy turtle]

nah and yeah

[swift tinsel]

again, depending on cdr which in aoe is higher

[glossy turtle]

yeah, just not using any until, its up?

[molten citrus]

i was saying yeah to this

[glossy turtle]

so its not really a general rule to hold all dmg for 40 sec until you have flag?

[swift tinsel]

nope

it purely depends on how many charges of sod and dance you have available

[vale pine]

basically think of it like this

[haughty mural]

you can adjust depending on the situation

[swift tinsel]

^

[vale pine]

the last cooldown cycle (dance/symbols) before you get your flag ready

you just not using evis anymore

and instead spam rupture and snd if needed

hope that makes sense

or makes it easier to understand

[molten citrus]

he was asking about dance/symbols usage

[swift tinsel]

I think he's talking about just regular rotation in 11.0x

its kinda fluid

[vale pine]

cooldown use

[swift tinsel]

so you need to do a bit of adjusting

[glossy turtle]

yeah cause it seems like you kinda hold for a long time, but I dont really know what the conditions had to be like to use dance. and when not to

[vale pine]

you 2x dance 2x symbols 2x secret during flag

[swift tinsel]

dance cdr is kinda goofy so its hard to have any kind of set rules

and it changes from st to aoe

[glossy turtle]

ok I see, but when should you start getting aware

of having to gather stuff? is it at the 40 sec mark of flag?

[swift tinsel]

so the way I think of it

[vale pine]

and between the big cooldowns

[swift tinsel]

is I look at what my sod and dance cooldowns are and what I have ready

[vale pine]

you essentially align around secret techniques

[swift tinsel]

and you also align them around flag

[glossy turtle]

but isnt that kinda hard when it varies alot. like the cd of secret tech

[swift tinsel]

cd of symbols is static

which is helpful

[glossy turtle]

sry I meant secret tech

dont know why I worte symbols -.-

[swift tinsel]

so you know as long as you have 1 charge ready and a 2nd with ~10-12 sec remaining on cd when flag is up, you're gonna be good

[glossy turtle]

ok 🙂

[swift tinsel]

sectech, symbols, shadowdance, shadowblades

there's an S theme lol

and with dance, I look at how many I have when flag's cd hits 45 seconds

[glossy turtle]

and for regular usage of dance, like non blades windows, I would only care if i have secret tech up, i assume

[swift tinsel]

yeah

like people have said, sectech is the anchor for your dance and sod

[glossy turtle]

seems like a feel kinda thing

[swift tinsel]

between flag windows

it really is

sub benefits greatly from practice

like a lot

[vale pine]

it comes fairly natural, the recharge is quite slow outside of cooldowns because of the slower pacing

[swift tinsel]

because of how variable it can feel

[hazy breach]

It generally doesnt matter that much. Main thing is to be sure to always have charges of dance and symbols for cds

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[glossy turtle]

ok I see 🙂

[solemn creek]

Spending time in ptr right now help a lot for the upcoming tier. Getting the reflex back

[rose pond]

with all the adjustments, is the sub still bugged? someone was saying the bug now makes sub do less than it should be

ah ok

i see it

[glossy turtle]

so at this point we just spead bleed and refresh bleeds?

[swift tinsel]

you can sod/sectech

[glossy turtle]

until dance ticks to 2, and then I send

true

although i dont really have my stuff binded like that. might need to get more keybinds

[solemn creek]

U need a lot of keybind for sub 😅

[sacred yarrow]

as opposed to what other classes

[glossy turtle]

enhance

[solemn creek]

On dh/enh i dont need as much

[glossy turtle]

feel like that is pretty chill

survival hunter

[solemn creek]

Even on sin. U dont need as many as for sub

[crystal bone]

with dh half my action bars are empty

with sub they are full minus 3 spots

[glossy turtle]

without cb I assume?

[swift tinsel]

correct

save Cb for 2nd sectech during flag

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[swift tinsel]

dang that's gonna be handy lol

[hazy breach]

Idk sub has like 1 or 2 extra keybinds over assa, its not that much different

Unless youre going ham on macros for some reason ig

[swift tinsel]

I think I counted 13 essential sub binds

for dps

[glossy turtle]

I have dance/symbols macro, but making a symbols bind for it self, and then I have cold blood and Secret tech, where I am making a secret tech only button

[mint swift]

Do you guys think sub should have bleeds? Just curious

[swift tinsel]

personally no

[crystal bone]

rupture seems out of place honestly

[swift tinsel]

unless its changed to interact with our kit in a meaningful way

[molten citrus]

do you not get a CB inbetween CDs?

[vale pine]

i think rupture is good to alter the rotaiton a bit

[swift tinsel]

I don't use it outside flag ever

[vale pine]

i don't think removing/simplifying everyhing is good

if you want to remove buttons

[swift tinsel]

bc you need to send it directly as it comes up

[vale pine]

i think blades/flag could be one cooldown instead of two

[swift tinsel]

and if you don't it scuffs your flag cb

[glossy turtle]

do i want my CPS already built up when I send cds?

[mint swift]

Yea

[swift tinsel]

would you prefer flag have 16 sec duration, blades 24 or a diff duration altogether?

[hazy breach]

16

[mint swift]

Tbh I feel lethal poisons are weird on sub and out

[fallow nimbus]

20 both

[swift tinsel]

remove flag stacking?

or do 8+8

[hazy breach]

24 is too long, plenty of packs are dead in m+ by the time your cooldowns are done

[molten citrus]

but that's incorrect... is it not

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[vale pine]

rather have a shorter cooldown

so 16-20 secs

so agree with both eleem and valthan

[swift tinsel]

flagellated shadow blades

[hazy breach]

Yesnt. Its better to only use it in blades than to macro it

[molten citrus]

idk if you should even end up in this situation

[vale pine]

the flagellation stacking is also kinda punishing, not sure i would keep that if i wanted to simplify the cooldowns

[swift tinsel]

I agree, I think the stacking portion is kinda useless

because its always with blades which stacks it very quickly

[hazy breach]

Technically you should try to line up so you can sectech immediately when cb is ready, but since every second you delay cb is a second you need to delay flag you have to be pretty on point with it

[molten citrus]

yeah i mean i can see that, but you should be able to squeeze one inbetween flags if you get a sectech back to line up right

[hazy breach]

But sim strictly sends in blades

[molten citrus]

kyveza

[molten citrus]

ic

[glossy turtle]

is SoD off gcd 🙂

[fallow nimbus]

Time for 30sec cd cb

[molten citrus]

ye

[glossy turtle]

it is, right?=

[grand wyvern]

isnt that the same problem but to try to squeeze 2 uses instead of 1?

[swift tinsel]

just make cb baked into sectech either in blades or in dance

or sectech is like chaos bolt

[hazy breach]

Yes if youre using it exactly when its ready. But if it ever causes you to lose out on the blade one its not worth. As the blades sectech does like 2.5-3x the damage of the outside blade one

[swift tinsel]

always crits, crit % increases crit dmg

[grand wyvern]

always crit is boring, its like not critting ever

[vale pine]

cold blood is actually nice

it removes variance

but its annoying if you can't macro it

[mint swift]

What about lukewarm blood

[glossy turtle]

is it not possible to make a macro that uses only symbols and then hits secret tech? I tried making it, but it doesnt pop symbols. if its off gcd where is the issue?

[frank musk]

What about Burning Blood?

[mint swift]

If that happens you need to see a doctor

[frank musk]

Wrong, my target does.

https://tenor.com/view/die-gun-shotgun-deus-vult-gif-17767114

[molten citrus]

i don't think you will always hit SoD->sec tech immediately

[swift tinsel]

you sometimes hit it when sectech cd is =< 10sec

[vale pine]

you can technically use symbols before secret comes off cd

[glossy turtle]

why not? doesnt 4 set make it the thing you wnna do?

[molten citrus]

like the macro should FUNCTION, yes

but not necessarily optimal

[glossy turtle]

its not though XD

[vale pine]

as long as you use one of the superachrger points on it

[glossy turtle]

but wouldnt I do symbols ->secret tech -> shuriken storm into bp or evisc

[swift tinsel]

is BP 8 yards or 10 like storm

[molten citrus]

as Haptics said, you can hit Symbols while tech is on CD

[vale pine]

you would symbols-dance

the rest is up to cp

[molten citrus]

right before it comes back up

[clear osprey]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glossy turtle]

does that still make the macro viable?

[vale pine]

it can mean you symbols-dance-evis-strike-secret for example

[swift tinsel]

adding conditions to fuu's target counter wa

[vale pine]

but for simplicity its easier to always send secret first

[molten citrus]

no, because it'd waste SoD charges if you were using SoD properly

[lunar bluff]

sup rupture gamers

[vale pine]

you always want to do so in the first dance in flagellation

[glossy turtle]

its in a situtaion where you are holding for flag, but got 1 dance and 2 SoDs, and you spend 1 sod to hit secret tech

[vale pine]

if you are low on dance charges

you might send a secret + symbols solo

without dance

[glossy turtle]

how so? if you say that I wanna use SoD before cd of secret tech is uop

[glossy turtle]

yep

exactly

[vale pine]

but thats rare

[lunar bluff]

me when my flag is like 25ish seconds away:
yeah ill think ill rupture here

[molten citrus]

because if you press SoD before tech is up, then you also press the macro when tech is up, it will send another SoD charge

[glossy turtle]

true ye

[molten citrus]

you send the SoD before tech is up PLANNING on using the 2nd supercharger on tech when it comes off CD

[lunar bluff]

🔥

[glossy turtle]

but why would you use second supercharger on secret tech?

when 4 set buffs the next finisher

[molten citrus]

you always want to supercharger tech

[lunar bluff]

season of discovery

[hazy breach]

I didnt get 5 buffs time to roll again

[molten citrus]

it will still buff the finishers after the tech

thinking about it too hard i think

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lunar bluff]

im gonna tell the world about your technique so its not so secret anymore!

[uneven scarab]

Lets talk about killing spree

[swift tinsel]

then people will just ask "what's a sub rogue?"

[uneven scarab]

[swift tinsel]

wow folks included

[molten citrus]

a supercharged evis after tech outside of flag/blades is kinda whatever

[hazy breach]

Idk people see 25 seconds and go "oh wow thats a lot of finishers theyre missing out on". When in reality its 1 or 2

Because we just dont press any buttons anyway

[lilac stag]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lunar bluff]

outlaw rogues when they are forced to sub to blizzards monthly payment plan

[swift tinsel]

yeah I think at most when I was looking at it, I sent 3 ruptures in that 25 sec

[glossy turtle]

yeah, so like why not always use secret tech, on supercharger the first one, and then for the second supercharger, use a finisher that is then both got supercharger buff and 16% buff

[hazy breach]

And one of those rupture is something you would need to send to refresh rupture anyway

[swift tinsel]

exactly

[frank musk]

Sub rogues when they are forced to 'pirate' mythic +

[swift tinsel]

really missing that potentially-not-FW evisc

[glossy turtle]

but anyways I still dont know why this doesnt work, might just be overlooking something obvious

[molten citrus]

symbolds?

[uneven scarab]

You spelt symbols wrong

[frank musk]

Kobolds that cant take candle.

[molten citrus]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vernal junco]

How good is the transmitter? I heard it takes a 678 cards to replace it omg

[swift tinsel]

you were saying

[molten citrus]

it just isn't the optimal usage, i'm not familiar enough with pve lately to explain it fully

[frank musk]

You are a Kobold!?

[glossy turtle]

LOL, I could have sworn I copied it from the ability list XD. help appreciated

[jaunty heath]

You fish for secret tech cdr with symbols evis

[swift tinsel]

haters say its photoshop

[frank musk]

Idk you might be onto something here haptics.

[lilac stag]

need to update the sound WAs for 25 flag now to go with 10 on Symkobolds

[glossy turtle]

ok I just cant see how it shouldnt be better. Might be some long term thing? idk

[lunar bluff]

sub rogues when they see the tier set stack icon (its KIR icon):

NOOOO!!!!!!

[frank musk]

Idk i am kind of okay with that.

[lilac stag]

becuase we send symbols with evis for cdr and if you have extra charges it will send with sectech when you already have it up

[uneven scarab]

For example, if you have coup de grace up and are about to enter dance+sod Coup first and then tech is better, both get supercharged and the coup gives you flawless stacks which gives you more finisher damage on tech

[lilac stag]

sub is anti macro.

just dont

[grand wyvern]

also the tier set trasmog itself, i dont want to wear that shit ever

[glossy turtle]

would you do that in m+ aoe?

[uneven scarab]

nah the mog is cool

[uneven scarab]

Ayes

[swift tinsel]

Idk tierset makes me feel like LeChuck from Monkey Island

[jaunty heath]

It’s cool but who went and said „ah yes perfect tier transmog for all rogue specs“

[uneven scarab]

yeah i mean its an outlaw mog

[swift tinsel]

which I dig

[uneven scarab]

for sure

[frank musk]

the 3 kobolds in a suit impersonating the rogue dev.

[uneven scarab]

but its still cool

[frank musk]

i love the tier set.

[glossy turtle]

and how big of a dmg loss is that 1 rare occurrence in overall dmg?

[grand wyvern]

pirate, not purple, what's the point?

[frank musk]

It looks beautiful.

[swift tinsel]

this mf

[uneven scarab]

We are talking about+15% finisher damage on tech

[frank musk]

Way better then whatever this nerubar palace set is.

[swift tinsel]

WHAT

[uneven scarab]

Its something

[swift tinsel]

do not

talk down

on ethereal set

[frank musk]

Too late.

[uneven scarab]

This set was good

[jaunty heath]

Nerubar set wasn’t bad

[frank musk]

the look was bad, the bonus was awesome.

[jaunty heath]

Or isnt*

[uneven scarab]

Ethereals and sub kinda go together

[frank musk]

Mog it over.

[uneven scarab]

I thought it looked cool

[frank musk]

done

It looks great as a halloween costume.

when you want to dress up as a mummy and a spider at the same time, but you are forced to choose.

[jaunty heath]

What

If anything next one is a Halloween costume

[frank musk]

BOTH ARE

[glossy turtle]

wanna use it above 5 targets as well?

[uneven scarab]

well yeah if you have coup you should use it

but outside of that bp

[glossy turtle]

ok 🙂 wasnt aware of that

[empty oyster]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

this tier rly has some diverse bracer options

[tidal marsh]

Somebody got paid real money to decide those

[lilac stag]

Crafting bracers. Noted.

[swift tinsel]

we get vers mastery from ante-uppers so we gucci

[vale pine]

raid has good bracers

its just m+/delves don't

[lilac stag]

ah. Did you post an item list in TC? I hadn’t checked yet

RWL taking away from ptr time.

[molten citrus]

are we going to see pve'rs pvp early again?

for crafted gear

since sparks are going to be the same as s1 i assume?

[swift tinsel]

can't speak for any other than sub but we get pretty solid options from m+

[vale pine]

possible

[molten citrus]

well i just mean in general, you can craft decent ilvl pvp gear week 1/2

[swift tinsel]

ah true

[molten citrus]

basically every class in the game farmed some of it iirc

[barren tree]

hows sub looking for m+ in s2? trying to decide which of my characters will i main 😔

[real yew]

nobody actually seems to know

[torn storm]

gotta wait for tuning

or for the patch to come out

[glossy turtle]

its out soon, so wont be long 🙂

[paper iron]

i mean sub looking great

[glossy turtle]

1 more patch left?

[paper iron]

but is it one of the main star? Certainly not, it doesnt bring shit as usual

[swift tinsel]

[glossy turtle]

meh but its rogueee

❤️

[real yew]

just play retpal zug

completes vdh kit :X

[swift tinsel]

unless we get gutted sub will be good

[paper iron]

aug and u ll be meta for the next 25 years

best investement possible

[glossy turtle]

and the worst at the same time

gotta be piss boring

[real yew]

this channel will be in flames once they fix 4p

[paper iron]

🤭

[glossy turtle]

isnt it fixed?

already

[swift tinsel]

then they take one look at our between-flag gameplay and quit

[real yew]

Did they fix perma 10stack

[swift tinsel]

yes

no longer perma

[real yew]

still giga 4piece?

[glossy turtle]

yes

[swift tinsel]

4pc is bugged for sectech

[glossy turtle]

bery noice peice

[swift tinsel]

fix sectech, then slightly nerf tier bonuses and we can fly back under the radar

[tepid trellis]

even without nerfing our tierset

we arent close to the top of simming classes

[swift tinsel]

I'm cool with that

[glossy turtle]

dont you think we kinda already are?

but ig they do tune with raid in mind

[tepid trellis]

there are classes that sim around the 3mil mark

[swift tinsel]

hope warriors get another kneejerk nerf

[glossy turtle]

lol

[sand ore]

[swift tinsel]

what are the other big offenders?

[open vortex]

year of the spear baby

[swift tinsel]

dh/bm?

[sand ore]

Havoc will be good probably

[hazy breach]

Ye if they end up nerfing out tier set we would almost certainly need some form of compensation buff elsewhere

Which is obviously a possibility

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah I'm fully expecting like a 30% nerf to the bonus % values

[lilac stag]

And this doesn’t have BM at 3.3 lol

[tepid trellis]

pretty sure unholy also now has a 3mil one

[glossy turtle]

m´+ or st?

[swift tinsel]

st

[lilac stag]

yeah it is

[hazy breach]

Obviously sims arent a perfect reflection of actual game balance

[lilac stag]

BM I think is only one with a stronger tier set than sub

[hazy breach]

But ye i would be very surprised if they nerf sub tier without buffing something else

[swift tinsel]

if its BP...

I stg

[slate lantern]

link?

[lilac stag]

nope

[swift tinsel]

double Flawless % plz