since im playing theater of pain
#subtlety
random hare
void ocean
guys, do we go for 3 dances during our sb+flag burst?
tepid trellis
guys, do we go for 3 dances during our sb+flag burst?
no
vestal escarp
as trickster you might be locked into rotten?
tepid trellis
finality is quite good with new tier
random hare
kk ty
alpine wraith
so it is whatever
tepid trellis
main like "good" thing about rotten is the ability to 100% spread FW
drowsy moon
ello
tepid trellis
just storm
alpine wraith
just strike and evis
vestal escarp
it's about 60 on live
alpine wraith
and i guess 2 from lethality
tepid trellis
5% from deadly prec
tepid trellis
do we ever wanan snapshot rupture with dance
almost all snapshots are gone from the game
tepid trellis
pretty much just feral that gets to play around with it
Sub only has one "snapshot"
and its Finality Rupture
void ocean
in what situation is it expected to use sec tech outside the dance
tepid trellis
when you are holding dances for next big go
and you would be able to generate enough cdr on sectech for it to be back
its just something you gotta get a feel for
void ocean
one last q, how do we get 3 sec tech as trickster during the go, is it only for multi target?
void ocean
ooh
hazy breach
When we still had invigorating shadowdust
Now we want 2 symbols, 2 dances and 2 sectechs inside all flag+blades
lilac stag
The guides, at least wowhead, explain the changes.
brave moth
How does Sub feels in PTR kes is it doing anything outside of CDs or just useless
alpine wraith
it is not made to do anything outside cds
we do even more of our total damage on cds now
hazy breach
How does Sub feels in PTR kes is it doing anything outside of CDs or just useles...
Its completely useless outside dances yes
That is the tradeoff you get when you do big burst
lilac stag
It feels just like live, minus Sectech doing dmg on live.
brave moth
So no way it is meta, ya ?
Kinda hoped I can play it in keys. Guess I have to go sub in raid and ass in keys
swift tinsel
you can play it in keys
tulip gorge
Why would it be bad in keys
Frost dk does piss damage outside cds and it’s currently meta
hazy breach
Current sub is more than playable in keys
swift tinsel
unless you're doing bleeding edge keys you absolutely can
void ocean
dead spec. 
hazy breach
Its just a tiny bit worse than assa
void ocean
Current sub is more than playable in keys
current sub on live or ptr?
hazy breach
Live
plush roost
Eleem was pushing to like 17s on sub right?
hazy breach
Its impossible to form an educated opinion about exactly how strong sub is in keys on the ptr because the tier still doesnt work 
swift tinsel
praying for fixes this week
plush roost
Seems like realz has dh on lock so he'll throw us a bone maybe
swift tinsel
if they fix nothing else, let it be sectech
hazy breach
Eleem was pushing to like 17s on sub right?
Yes but i swapped to assa because we found a healer who was yapping on too much about it and i cba arguing
I dont mind playing assa anyway
swift tinsel
its not the worst but not as fun
plush roost
Lol how high would you think you'd get on sub
Probably pushing it past 17 ya?
Maybe db ak 18?
plush roost
Hmm interesting
How do you even do mists as sub past 16
Feels like you're negative tree damage
Obv you burn ingara but man that tree
Or is it a: fk it no aug, angle
plush roost
Mastery go brr in aoe
vestal escarp
it's a lot of angles
hazy breach
Because you can feel the extra energy, and you cant tell how much worse it is with how volatile PTR tuning is
vestal escarp
triple dps is something to be taken well into consideration when going as sub in certain keys
leaden prairie
than assa
i was playing sub on first boss actually, for a bit, but it was taking me too long to swap out after first boss so i stpped
plush roost
Yeah equipping 4 poisons takes foreva
vestal escarp
as well as other things, sin is more versatile in any party
leaden prairie
Yeah equipping 4 poisons takes foreva
lol ye idk
im not sure its that
i jsut have too long loading times
plush roost
Bro with long load times those 4 seconds matter haha
hazy breach
But also something that makes CB worse on ptr is that the 4p doesnt work on the sectech clones most of the time.
lilac stag
people start playing tea instead of CB in PTR
It’s bad bruh. They just want to feel like they are doing something outside of CDs with vigor.
native zodiac
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
native zodiac
@vale pine out of curiosity, is the tierset bug counted into the sim on the sheet here?
hazy breach
No
If the bugs remains into the season we will add them, but theyre not currently in there
native zodiac
ah alright ty
versed terrace
Hey I'm currently trying every spec before S2 and I can ready sometimes that sub aoe s*ck but how thats possible with a hero talent that allow us to aoe with mono spells on 7 target around us ? Just like outlaw with blade flurry ?
Maybe im missing a big point about it ?
crystal bone
**Rogue Spreadsheet - [Light Version](<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/...
sub season inc 
tepid trellis
Hey I'm currently trying every spec before S2 and I can ready sometimes that sub...
at certain target counts we stop using our single target finishers as trickster
versed terrace
at certain target counts we stop using our single target finishers as trickster
Hmm ok that means black powder is uncap ?
tepid trellis
soft capped yes
versed terrace
Oook ty
worn ivy
tepid trellis
its more like 20%
tepid trellis
cuz you arent going from 0p to new 4p
clever delta
Did anyone simm how is that clones bug big
tepid trellis
nope
clever delta
Because I have bad feeling about anything sectech related being fixed
tepid trellis
alot of the 4set power is in the fact that sectech is in it
so it becomes significantly worse if doesent work
clever delta
Yeah just make sectech one big hit with cool visuals already
tepid trellis
fairly sure they are gonna fix it before it goes live
wouldnt be surprised if the tier got nerfed as well
tepid trellis
but then again all of that depends on their target tuning
there are classes that sim around 2.7m
tepid trellis
and sub even with a good tierset isnt really close to t hat
alpine wraith
it is another duck tape tier
tepid trellis
but those said classes could also be overtuned to what blizzard would want
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> out of curiosity, is the tierset bug counted into the sim ...
eleem already answered, but tier set implementation assumes no bugs
torn storm
or SUB
vestal escarp
there are verty little scenarios where sub isnt viable in raid
clever delta
It's just assa is the same shit over and over
torn storm
other 2 rogue specs suck rn
clever delta
I don't mind but get boring qukicly
torn storm
subject to change
vale pine
there is chance im gonna be playing 1 of 3 things
think you forgot to mention/count sub
swift tinsel
yeah but what about Sub?
torn storm
if i dont get a mythic transmitter am i cooked?
tulip gorge
heroic transmitter not good enough?
torn storm
last 639 item i dont have is the one i actually need
tulip gorge
if not I'll just farm priory and get the 2m trinket for assa 
clever delta
I have bad feeling about being house of cards prio
swift tinsel
That's my only reserved item besides eye but that's everyone's lol
only rogue so I get all daggers
torn storm
just get hc house of cards
Is the heroic version = to mythic transmitter?
tepid trellis
no
torn storm
hazy breach
Assuming you play transmitter well its currently not looking like house of cards beats it (its very close though, they sim similar)
But they will probably nerf it
tulip gorge
that's almost guaranteed
the int trinket will probably get nerfed too
forgot its name
hazy breach
As in a maxxed mythic transmitter sims roughly the same as a mythic maxxed house of cards
slate lantern
the int trinket will probably get nerfed too
spymaster
torn storm
i still have sepulcher flashbacks of using double sylv dagger
hazy breach
Havent double checked but would assume a hc transmitter would sim the same as maxxed hc house of cards too
slate lantern
what is the dps diff on heroic vs mythic transmitter? I simmed it only being like 15k dps on ST but my gear is kinda cooked from outlaw
hazy breach
Not having to deal with the minigame from transmitter is in practice probably gonna mean its slightly more dps to use house of cards
But again, that assumes you have it maxxed
So you can just use your crests on other things instead
slate lantern
no minigame is epic poggers
vale pine
getting a mythic house will probably be not that easy tho
so we likely keep using transmitter for at least the first part of the tier
swift tinsel
I'll have to pug Bandit to get one since we always cap at 4 mythic bosses
and thats in late days
alpine wraith
if people begin extending
peak palm
Any good YouTube videos for learning sub? I want to main spec it in season 2 for PvE and dabble in PVP but there is not much education for PvE I can find that I am finding useful for beginners.
alpine wraith
you can check out the written guides in wowhead etc i also do the sub videos and eleem has also some content iirc
!guide
glossy turtle
does it look like its gonna be sub that is the better spec to play in m+, in s2?
alpine wraith
sub is quite fine
but also because assa is in the dumps
and outlaw has some issues
vestal escarp
existential
glossy turtle
we arent even gonna discuss outlaw XD. was just thinking that assa doesnt really seem to be talked that much abt
alpine wraith
their tier set is weak and the baseline is not huge either
glossy turtle
seemed the tierset for sub also seemed very nice
peak palm
does it look like its gonna be sub that is the better spec to play in m+, in s2?
Sub is just more new to me and it looks to being doing ok in beta. So I figured I would give it a shot. I don’t push title so at the keys I run sub 3.2k io I am sure any spec will be fine.
slate lantern
seemed the tierset for sub also seemed very nice
4p is 20% 
glossy turtle
lol
slate lantern
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
glossy turtle
well yeah, still got some time
slate lantern
^^ this is important for learning sub
glossy turtle
but now its just down to tuning right? no majort changes
slate lantern
same as it ever was
alpine wraith
deathstalker is very behind in 11.1
tier set does not help
and mark bug buries it
glossy turtle
BIG!
slate lantern
hazy breach
Deathstalker still fine for aoe, but prob just trickster all the way
Also saying its "buried" is probably overstating it as its like 3% behind on ST
alpine wraith
well if they fix mark bug they are almost equal and maybe fix other bugs but still 3% is enough to bury it
with some bad soil
alpine wraith
deathstalker
vestal escarp
Dn and shadow eviscerate
glossy turtle
they changed the evisc trickster leap, right?
glossy turtle
nice 🙂
glossy turtle
i really like your pfp
thanks, I look good dont i? 😄
void hound
you look fabulous
glossy turtle
in the opener with the buffed BP, do I just wanna use bp instead of evisc and then use shuriken storm before BP?
hazy breach
At 5 or more yes
glossy turtle
saw casual play with shuriken tornado, will that be a thing?
glossy turtle
meh, idk doesnt feel that nice
are there any sims out, when it comes to builds? 🙂
or will everything just stay the same?
median mesa
Gloomblade is your generator in pure ST outside of SD, yes? It feels like it drains my energy for relatively shit combo point generation but maybe it just feels bad and the dmg is actually better
swift tinsel
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
swift tinsel
Dropping Rotten for 1/2 Finality has been a gain for me in ST but not by a ton
like 0.6%
ptr sims so take with a grain of salt
tulip gorge
Is it a gain for aoe too?
vestal escarp
koop
tulip gorge
Eh idk about that, don’t we play rotten for the guaranteed fw in aoe?
What if you are unlucky with crits
torn storm
premed
tulip gorge
Vanish is 2 min cd
swift tinsel
Eh idk about that, don’t we play rotten for the guaranteed fw in aoe?
you still get decent FW coverage through natural crits
Storms get 20% extra crit from Imp Storm and Deadly Precision
swift tinsel
Both
Top Gear compares
sorry mistyped before, Rotten is 1% gain over 1/2 Finality
tulip gorge
Rotten is gain in aoe but finality is gain in ST?
swift tinsel
from tinkering around on mimiron yeah
ptr sims are weird tho
things still settling
glossy turtle
what do i do if I get full CP reset and I am abt to cast black powder with supercharger? where I would normally use shurikenstorm, get cps and then use bp. should I just send it itstead? or use shuriken storm only for the imp shuriken storm talent
tepid trellis
you dont wanna waste cps
chances are you already have FW on a good amount of targets
glossy turtle
ok 🙂
tepid trellis
(remove FW from the game ty)
versed terrace
!wa
vale pine
(remove FW from the game ty)
+1
glossy turtle
FW?
glossy turtle
ah I see. didnt know that there were multiple ways of exposing the weakness
I always wanna stand behind em then?
(mobs)
vale pine
gloomblade des not require you to be behind ^^
glossy turtle
ok, so usually just step into backstab, just to be sure?
vale pine
(too bad its not good enough to be played)
glossy turtle
well shadowstrike
swift tinsel
gloomblade des not require you to be behind ^^
does the bugfix only apply to BS and not GB?
tepid trellis
well shadowstrike
all shadowstrikes apply it
glossy turtle
even if im in front?
swift tinsel
Yep
void ocean
do we have any workaround for that macro clicking a button with another macro, which was disabled with TWW?
Id rly like to macro SoD and SD together but within castsequence, so I dont nervous-finger all 3 charges of SoD at once 😄
tepid trellis
even if im in front?
lilac stag
do we have any workaround for that macro clicking a button with another macro, w...
Nope. We don’t want to macro anything really as sub.
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
void ocean
u guys r breaking my heart 
lilac stag
Imagine having a heart.
swift tinsel
have one but never spec it
keen dome
No heart. Only purple.
raw wigeon
jaunty umbra
solar geode
whats fw short for?
frank musk
I left my heart in shadow.
void ocean
whats fw short for?
frost wyrm 😛
solar geode
right
void ocean
im joking, sry 😛
solar geode
whats wrong with it? is armor reduction not that good?
swift tinsel
it messes up other talents
and its kinda pointless as a debuff when its close to 100% uptime but not quite
pliant topaz
^ it does nothing in terms of gameplay, just eats up talents (by makning them mandatory while again, offering 0 interesting gameplay decisions), and is generally a punishment talent (you get punished for not having it because the deault is you always have it).
also causes a fuck ton of bugs because they somehow always forget to add shadowed finishers to whitelists
graceful perch
is it fine to use SB/Dance/Symbols into SS / sec tec or should i use Dance/symbols/SS into blades / sec tec?
not much of a different i guess? :X
pliant topaz
well blades is 15 seconds
2 dances are 16 seconds
so youre going to miss atleast 1 dance gcd with blades
its better to msis it on the very first strike (since fewer dm stacks / less flag / u have premed ) than to miss it on the evis at the end of 2nd dance which has more flag stacks, more dm stacks etc.
umbral relic
hey humanz
i'm working on my ui
and listing all the things that should be remove from sub
i'm convinced about removing cold blood and Slice and dice would be a benefit
do you have any other things?
exept these damn bugs
swift tinsel
we don't know what you're tracking atm
slate lantern
remove finishers between dance windows, i want to be able to snack in between
hollow snow
umbral relic
SnD seems so useless for our identity
i want to hit hard from the shadow, not doing a lot of little hits
and it's close to impossible to loose it
umbral relic
yes but you could change 'snd' part with 'your autos'
swift tinsel
See shadow techniques
already by autos, SnD gives more autos per unit time
imagine if it gave even more
umbral relic
sure but it would change absolutely nothing to remove snd and add a passive 'you attack 60% faster'
i feel the same about rupture, but rupture you have to manually maintain it, so it seems more built-in
haughty mural
(remove FW from the game ty)
+1
lunar bluff
i feel like this spec no work without shammy buff
swift tinsel
Accurate
hazy breach
Yes it does feel terrible without a shaman
hazy breach
Like 8% or so
clever delta
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
Luckily shamans are OP
leaden prairie
guys is sub meta
hazy breach
guys is sub meta
Bro tried to turn the DPS meter upside down to fool the authorities
clever delta
rip race sims
tepid trellis
when a person with slight hands play it then it can be quite good
leaden prairie
rip race sims
you racist cuh ?
swift tinsel
we're so back
keen dome
guys is sub meta
Finally, rogue tank spec
reef coral
hi im new to this game and got a question, is the krol blade + mirahs song better then the 2 dal rends swords ?
toxic lily
which is the best hero talnet right now?
clever delta
man those wow services feel so expensive when i pay them in my currency
crystal bone
guys is sub meta
looks accurate with no cd's up
leaden prairie
lore accurate sub rogue
crystal bone
slate lantern
hi im new to this game and got a question, is the krol blade + mirahs song bette...
are you talking about classic
keen dome
lore accurate sub rogue
No way. That's Ky'Veza and we can't be that cool..
reef coral
are you talking about classic
yes classic hc
slate lantern
yes classic hc
go to #classic-discussion , this channel discusses retail 🫡
reef coral
go to <#494574420854308884> , this channel discusses retail 🫡
ty 🙂
wheat elk
lore accurate sub rogue
lore accurate sub was before SL where you could st onlyXD
clever delta
maghar orc male or female
slate lantern
maghar orc male or female
Goblin
swift tinsel
I wish I could go back in time and be in the room where they not only pitched it as a playable race but to hear how they were able to convince them it was a good idea
cyan perch
i lvld a mechagnome rogue as a meme with the name Temujpc may he rest in piece
vale pine
i still hope that we get etheral as playable race
granite bear
is sub tset still bugged on ptr?
tepid trellis
yep
cedar eagle
sorry what is the actual bug for PTR?
tepid trellis
shadowed finishers consume tier stacks (and multi hit finishers like Coup)
Sectech doesent work with the 4set
hazy breach
Unluck
swift tinsel
idec what their racials end up being I'd hard switch in a heartbeat
keen dome
Same
keen dome
My greatest fear is they are Horde only for some idiotic reason but I think they'd be neutral race.
Did you know there's actually an Ethereal without bindings in the game?
swift tinsel
For sure, they've gotta be neutral like pandaren
swift tinsel
Did you know there's actually an Ethereal without bindings in the game?
say whaaat
keen dome
It'd be cool if they remembered this and used it as their dead form when corpse running
slate lantern
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/f/f0/Unbound_Ethereal.jpg/revi...
its just soup
keen dome
like nelf whisps but way fucking cooler
100%
Originally, ethereals had physical form. When Dimensius the All-Devouring assaulted their homeworld of K'aresh, however, the arcane energies he unleashed on them ripped apart their bodies. Only their advanced technology allowed them to survive - barely - as beings of pure energy. Ultimately, it was this very change that allowed them to battle Dimensius on an even-footing and travel through the Twisting Nether to find refuge.
They've got such cool lore.
They most often appear in their specially enchanted wrappings that keep their energy forms bound within their humanoid shapes. Ethereals appear to need to eat and drink, with their vendors selling specialty bread and drinks not found on vendors of other races. The Ethereal Soul-Trader sells an Inv potion 10 [Ethereal Liqueur] that can have an odd effect on 'fleshy imbibers' suggesting that ethereals drink it themselves with no ill effects. Based on the foods Eyonix sells and their interest in gems, it could be thought they consume them and precious metals.
swift tinsel
Okay yeah not having them as playable is a huge miss
just read more of their lore and they're dope as hell
keen dome
Ye. Because they've made that one in the TWW prologue stuff important, and also Ky'veza and stuff. I'd be really really shocked if we don't get them in Midnight or Last titan
You can do a lot with just the wrappings and colours and stuff imo. And then gear sits over it.
They don't actually need that much customisaiton if setup well
cedar eagle
my sectech in dance on PTR is hitting for like 3min wtf
molten citrus
swift tinsel
thats a super long sectech
cedar eagle
err 3mil
swift tinsel
its bugged and doesn't benefit from 4pc shadow dmg all the time
or if you're super unlucky, ever
steel zinc
there is chance im gonna be playing 1 of 3 things
Like on every endboss last what 4 years if you played rogue you played sub
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tepid trellis
lets get you back into the rubber room
young mural
lmao
keen dome
No more dust. We vaccumed.
young mural
ok i have a better more fitting name now
pliant topaz
mine just doesent work full stop
mine is called the schrodinger's tech, becuase its working and not working at the same time until i log into the game. which i wont be doing
swift tinsel
fun thing is it can not work and also work once you log into the game
sometimes in the same cast!
valid sundial
Any build changes going into 11.1?
keen dome
Yeah, they deleted rogue because we were too strong in 11.1
valid sundial
Based tbh
lilac stag
Sub is deleted in 11.2. FW and spilt damage finally ate itself removing the spec completely.
swift tinsel
Was only a matter of time tbh
steel zinc
FW is one of the most useless passive imo in the game. Same with finality. Should all imo be reworked or just straight up removed
swift tinsel
wym our tree is all leftover legendaries, cov abilities and azerite powers what could go wrong
reach in bag, add to spec tree
repeat
keen dome
The pick'n mix spec but it's after the school rush so it's all the weird candy left.
steel zinc
wym our tree is all leftover legendaries, cov abilities and azerite powers what ...
like the spec plays good rn imo, but there is so much useless junk attached that just needs to be removed.
swift tinsel
100%
valid sundial
They should bring me into the meetings where they discuss that stuff
keen dome
Also me.
valid sundial
Us
swift tinsel
"but have you considered ethereals"
swift tinsel
on ptr my poisons now open horizontally instead of vertically on my horizontal bar and its driving me nuts
keen dome
lmao, what the heck
swift tinsel
idk its weird
for sin I use a castsequence macro but idc enough to make one for sub but its gross when I have to apply them
valid sundial
Yall apply poisons?
valid sundial
I make my butler do it for me
rustic raven
which tier piece does sub not use next patch?
sand ore
which tier piece does sub not use next patch?
pinky toe
lapis hatch
whatever has most haste
swift tinsel
went from 1 other person on our token to competing with 7 next season, what the fuck
thin lion
Prayge guys, its almost time for the next ptr cycle 
slate lantern
picked up four warriors
Arms fotm rerollers??
swift tinsel
looking like it
and they're talking about recruiting an aug
one of our dk's might be switching too
gonna have to farm the vault
thin lion
My prayers are with you
swift tinsel
I'm sure others are waiting for Archon tier lists to finalize before picking lol
alpine wraith
we always gotta pray
swift tinsel
a few of us are gonna try and rush 11 delves and see how they go
alpine wraith
you can cheese a bit with rogue
swift tinsel
Hoping tank brann is a prot paladin
I didn't check any of them out on ptr so I dont know how they scale but they weren't very challenging this season
wouldn't hate getting a hero track dagger, energy drink or dagger trinket from first vault
outside of obv hero track tier
alpine wraith
i think i speedrun craft dagger
but idk if i can get it fast enough week where raid opens
swift tinsel
can get 24 gilded iirc from delve 11's between first and second week
unless they've messed that up
unless you're just gonna do a hc craft
swift tinsel
did they change it so they drop from 7's now?
alpine wraith
it was +7 or +8 i dont remember but they changed kinda yes
my chances of getting a decent M item is low but still saving those 30 crests for something else is good
alpine wraith
seems boe on boots is good so i will move my craft of patch from boots to belt
versed terrace
!wa
hollow spear
Is the crest cap going to be 180 on 04/03?
alpine wraith
unlikely
lethal yew
Have they said if we will have access to higher tier delves week 1? Or will it be like season 1 where you could only do like tier 4 delves on week 1
I assumed they would lock the higher delves behind march 4th
lilac stag
Hoping tank brann is a prot paladin
So he can fuck up a bubble taunt and get you killed?
swift tinsel
He already steals aggro without tricks bc of dance’s threat shenanigans
vestal escarp
So he can fuck up a bubble taunt and get you killed?
lmao tank brann bopping himself
nova heath
We have maximum targets cap?
tribal blade
alright i was using a font addon that was somehow using 50-60 gigs
changed to a different one and it's now using WAY less
very nice
molten citrus
alright i was using a font addon that was somehow using 50-60 gigs
tf?
molten citrus
can't you just import any font you want
tribal blade
no it's called fontcontrol but scalefont in game for some reason
molten citrus
with Shared Media and Shared Media_causese or w/e
tribal blade
i was doing that before yeah, but it broke my game on the last big patch
molten citrus
oh wtf
tribal blade
i just went into the game files and changed the base fonts
swift tinsel
Coup gives SnD now *edit can't replicate, assuming my mind played tricks
will get video in a sec
its inconsistent
spark tusk
its inconsistent
why why is it inconsistent why does this world make no sense
swift tinsel
it happened twice in the 10min sectech test I was just doing so I'm tryna find it in the log
jaunty heath
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
jaunty heath
where are the sims at
civic lava
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
civic lava
in the light version there is a S2 tab
jaunty heath
those dont work either
swift tinsel
22 tier resets on 107 evisc casts (100 of which had FW)
close enough to the correct and incorrect percent to not be confident its fixed
just sat eviscerating a dummy until I hit 100 with FW, sent coups too
kind bluff
Wait does FW effect the tier proc?
dire jolt
Is it bad that I really hope we get to WoD classic? I wanna relive WoD sub.
twilit phoenix
dire jolt
I mostly loved WoD sub for leaning heavily into the shadowblade theme.
tribal blade
if i turn off all the old expac littlewigs will they still work for the current M+ pool of old dungeons like GB/siege etc?
tribal blade
mm i see
oh i turned them all off but they put the current season's dungeons back on automatically
so i assume as long as you have littlewigs enabled you have to have expacs that have current season dungeons enabled
cool feature tbh
brisk onyx
Wait does FW effect the tier proc?
an issue is the proc rate effect from physical damage and shadow damage, so
spark tusk
oh that makes significantly more sense lmao
tribal blade
oh that makes significantly more sense lmao
i'm STUPID
haughty mural
why do you think so ?
tulip gorge
assuming there will be a ptr build this week 
alpine wraith
surely they need to fix some bugs with the new car
rogue changes?
what are those
brisk onyx
molten citrus
oh i just realized i said gigs instead of mb
yeah i kinda figured 
tribal blade
i've gone back to the original addon because something's not quite working with the new one
if i reload my UI after setting it up it'll make my chat windows have massive fonts for some reason
tribal blade
i think i have something else in my UI causing problems
yeah they take existing fonts you have i think
i have shared media
molten citrus
ah
i need to import expressway
you should get uhh
bug sack
there's a couple addons, i think u need both, that'll show u what addons are having errors
used it just a couple days ago because i had an old WA that had a lua error every server tick or some shit
tribal blade
my guildie just recommended i do that the other day, i'll give it a shot some time
hollow spear
used it just a couple days ago because i had an old WA that had a lua error ever...
Holy
vestal escarp
Gm doomblades
fathom gazelle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
valid sundial
How do yall remember to apply CB? I can't seem to get it drilled into my head and I do goes without using it once
mint swift
The hell is CB
sly shore
have it as another macro
mint swift
Haven’t played sub in a sec
worn cape
The hell is CB
Cold Blood
sly shore
also have CB bound so you can press the button
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.ye it ain't
valid sundial
Lmao okay thanks guys
mint swift
Guess I’m paying assassination next season
Why isn’t it recommend anymore? Just curious
valid sundial
Guess I’m paying assassination next season
What's funny is I rolled a wheel to see what I play for next season and it landed on sub
sly shore
you use it on sectech still
but the one in the 2nd dance in cd's
then in between cd's
you just press it
vestal escarp
vestal escarp
Cb usage got less immediately intuitive
mint swift
Tbh dance + symbols not being macroed tho is a big pass from me.
valid sundial
My thoughts exactly
vestal escarp
Trickster aoe sequence got less immediately intuitive
DS aoe sequence got less immediately intuitive if you're a degenerate
mint swift
Yea but like more buttons
It is a skill issue yes
100%
But I just preferred things being macroed together
sly shore
it's a perfectly valid reason for not playing the spec
valid sundial
You think it'll he easier if I switch them to outlaw icons?
vestal escarp
Tbh dance + symbols not being macroed tho is a big pass from me.
To be a devils advocate it's been unoptimal since a long while, so if you used it until now and never cared to optimize around that you're still fine
tribal blade
seems like no matter how much blizz tries to simplify sub it just keeps staying not simple
sly shore
cos the base design of the spec is complicated
mint swift
it's a perfectly valid reason for not playing the spec
Yea fair
mint swift
I remember wanting to play arms
sly shore
lean into the shadow fantasy
vestal escarp
Kill cdr
mint swift
But good lord the button bloat
tribal blade
lean into the shadow fantasy
i agree with all those points
mint swift
Tbh I think it’s more so some aren’t reduced by cdr
vestal escarp
Button bloat is real now with no macros
mint swift
Like outlaw, it’s fine
Because everything is reduced
But with sub it’s only 2 things
sly shore
added macros on top of those singular binds
vestal escarp
added macros on top of those singular binds
We dont kinkshame here dw
tribal blade
having 2 spells dance and sectec that cdr at different rates and need to be used together is cringe
tribal blade
should honestly be either dance or sectec has cdr
valid sundial
It's giving cdr unholy
vestal escarp
Dance + strike doesnt work anymore
vestal escarp
So i've been told
tribal blade
did they fix it??
vestal escarp
I dance separately
mint swift
But yea I just liked dance + SoD
vestal escarp
Just wait for sin tuning and you can forget this spec
sly shore
/cast [stance:0] Shadow Dance
/cast Ambush```I'm playing assa as it is 
I improved my queen this week
mint swift
To be a devils advocate it's been unoptimal since a long while, so if you used i...
Also it is true but I wanna do good dps
And idm how big of a dps loss being lazy is
valid sundial
I'm bouta go ☝️🤓 for a sec so bear with me
tribal blade
feels like there's less delay on the strike dance macro
vestal escarp
If you dont care you macro if you care you learn proper send timings
tribal blade
it's still there, but not as bad as before
vestal escarp
Very shrimple
alpine wraith
dance+strike does not work per se
but if you hit it more than once eventually it strikes
just not like in legion
valid sundial
Find Weakness is weird and Cold Blood feels archaic
alpine wraith
where it was same trigger
valid sundial
This feels more like outlaw than outlaw does to me (obv not 1:1)
mint swift
If you dont care you macro if you care you learn proper send timings
Yea, but I enjoyed how it played when I macroed them together
And I would be happy if I could play it like that and do optimal dps
alpine wraith
although sometimes it does work someone said
sly shore
/cast [stance:0] Shadow Dance
/cast Ambush```
Just use this so it can't recast danceFW is archaic and cb just happens to be dps for sub
valid sundial
The last time I liked FW was when Outlaw had it in DF and HO became popular. Bad opinion ik. I
vestal escarp
Yea, but I enjoyed how it played when I macroed them together
And I would be hap...
As already stated by many there are many things that would make it more enjoyable but the current state is this
mint swift
As already stated by many there are many things that would make it more enjoyabl...
You could say that about rogue in general
tribal blade
nvm the macro is definitely still fucked
just needed to use it enough times to get a super delay
keen dome
Why did I decide to do my Heroic vault on a Tuesday. I have created a hell of my own making..
mint swift
But ye
Do you guys prefer manually using each CD or macroing them
tribal blade
But ye
Do you guys prefer manually using each CD or macroing them
the big issue is the more you macro as sub the more you run into it suddenly becoming really, really bad to do because things change rotationally
sly shore
just get faster internet
tribal blade
is it that easy?
tribal blade
and download more ram right?
alpine wraith
faster internet does not help with ms
keen dome
More tubes to carry the backstabs
alpine wraith
it is all routing and packet loss
tribal blade
lol you have better ping to NA than me
tribal blade
i live further away for sure
sly shore
alpine wraith
i like how sometimes i have to explain to people why even if they live somewhere near they can have worse connections
tribal blade
i like how sometimes i have to explain to people why even if they live somewhere...
hey that's me!
valid sundial
I have a dumb question
tribal blade
there are no dumb questions here, only dumb questions
lilac stag
i'm directly on the opposite side of the globe from NA
Are you playing on the west coast server cluster or the Chicago cluster
tribal blade
Are you playing on the west coast server cluster or the Chicago cluster
chicago
valid sundial
Is it possible to change the icon of an ability while said ability retains tooltip?
tribal blade
iirc i get less ping if i play on westcoast
mint swift
*ye
tribal blade
the closest servers i could play on would be china or taiwan
which are both a hard pass
tulip gorge
look at this guy thinking rogue gets changes
keen dome
I miss my macro 😦
lilac stag
No you don’t
sly shore
the closest servers i could play on would be china or taiwan
where even are you
mint swift
look at this guy thinking rogue gets changes
We do
Not good changes
But we get chsnges
tribal blade
where even are you
hong kong 😉
cobalt edge
on the topic of changes, is our new tierset bugged? some stuff regarding ID's
sly shore
hong kong 😉
why
sly shore
well explained, ty
tulip gorge
here is a leak from 11.1.5:
when below 30% energy you cast Symbols of Death automatically
mint swift
hong kong 😉
Bro blizzard hates you either way
vestal escarp
Bro asked why 
keen dome
I'm envious of his access to extremely good food.
lilac stag
i grew up here
why
mint swift
I'm envious of his access to extremely good food.
Why
keen dome
Because good food is great!
vale pine
please no
lilac stag
because i was born against my will
I have a joke for this but I think it goes against server rules.
mint swift
God why did I even think of playing sub
tribal blade
I have a joke for this but I think it goes against server rules.
haha it's all good we know each other well enough
i doubt they would care
keen dome
God why did I even think of playing sub
purple
vestal escarp
God why did I even think of playing sub
Shadow Strike
tulip gorge
it could have been worse, you could have played outlaw
tribal blade
or maybe not, don't get banned from here
vale pine
Secret goes brr
mint swift
it could have been worse, you could have played outlaw <:omegalul:58573408477747...
True
tulip gorge
outlaw literally doing tank damage 
mint swift
I just liked brain off
Shadow dance
Press button
Big number
No effort
Not too many buttons
mint swift
outlaw literally doing tank damage <:despair:1000447381894090803>
Oh I thought you meant just playing it
Not like the dps output
tulip gorge
nah gameplay is good
vestal escarp
outlaw literally doing tank damage <:despair:1000447381894090803>
St is fine
Raid spec
tulip gorge
but the output is awful
vestal escarp
mint swift
nah gameplay is good
Debatable
tulip gorge
good luck raiding with no burst lmao
vestal escarp
lilac stag
i doubt they would care
I DMd it.
vestal escarp
Ret still doing numbers
mint swift
At least Assa is still a thing
tulip gorge
assuming they don't nerf it
vestal escarp
It will always be a thing, baseline is ultra solid
valid sundial
Okay I mastered sub, see yall in wcl
lilac stag
At least Atrophic poison is a thing
keen dome
Make no parry the rogue raid buff 
tulip gorge
when was the last tier when all 3 rogue specs were bad for raid
keen dome
And make it give a stat too
vestal escarp
Make no parry the rogue raid buff <:coup_de_grace:1231513160163524758>
No
lilac stag
Make no parry the rogue raid buff <:coup_de_grace:1231513160163524758>
It already is
vestal escarp
Fuck other ungrateful melees
keen dome
Hahaha
tribal blade
one of the warrs on my raid team was flaming me earlier
lilac stag
one of the warrs on my raid team was flaming me earlier
Ask them how floor pov is on prog
mint swift
one of the warrs on my raid team was flaming me earlier
Fuck him in the ass
fallow nimbus
The best thing is progress without a rogue and suddenly healer struggle so people die
lilac stag
it is
alpine wraith
someone has to soak the daggers
vestal escarp
but yea rogue is nothing special but BOOORST tho
What about classes that BOORST more?
jaunty heath
It’s special in my heart
lilac stag
Too much boorst not good
alpine wraith
well for funny things at least we will be a good prog spec
we gain a lot from tier
and 1 wep upgrade
our best trinket is from s1
etc
vestal escarp
Sepulcher all again
alpine wraith
yep
tulip gorge
just wait until the nerfs hit this week
lilac stag
we gain a lot from tier
Don’t gain enough to close the gapped dps right now
alpine wraith
actually playing 2 or 3 rogues might be fine
alpine wraith
Don’t gain enough to close the gapped dps right now
yea just dont tell anyone we are behind like 200k to 400k
on the real boi specs
kekw
and that is if tier works
vestal escarp
The real bois are bugged/overtuned
alpine wraith
yea we still have some weeks until raid opens
so who knows yet
they still have to buff assa 4 times again
maybe they also buff DS again
the monsters
lilac stag
Maybe overtuned is actual numbers they’re looking for and we’re just fucked with another BP buff inc
mint swift
Please do
lilac stag
Feral is pumping
jaunty heath
In aoe
tulip gorge
i will go on a 2h rant
why
jaunty heath
Not so much in raid
lilac stag
There’s 1 ST fight in raid
vestal escarp
They'll look at tuning post 26 imo
vernal junco
hey guys, how to use skardyn as a sub?
tulip gorge
you don't
lilac stag
hey guys, how to use skardyn as a sub?
if you insist on using it. Every other flag.
Your shit 2 min trinkets now a shittier 3 min trinket.
vernal junco
.
lilac stag
Or play assa
dim trail
Talents for ptr are rdy?
lilac stag
Nothing changes
vernal junco
which two should I use then ?
vestal escarp
Mythic crystal no way
vernal junco
sim tell me skardyn - -
lilac stag
Then use it
vernal junco
lilac stag
As a fucked up 3 min trinket
vernal junco
lilac stag
Or go buy the 606 lantern
tribal blade
makes sense the sim wants you to run a bad trinket for sub but it's the only one that puts damage into cds
alpine wraith
for the giggles look a lfr transmitter
tribal blade
out of all the ones you have
lilac stag
There’s a week left. Who fucking cares.
alpine wraith
not really transmitter will be used likely the whole new season
try to get it even on normal or hc
vestal escarp
Literally the lantern should sim more
lilac stag
We don’t get nice shit here
vestal escarp
alpine wraith
yea lantern is quite cool
vernal junco
mint swift
There’s a week left. Who fucking cares.
Can’t wait for all the
“Will my X be good next season”
mint swift
As if it’s not getting replaced week 1 of M+
vestal escarp
Can’t wait for all the
“Will my X be good next season”
It's already happening lilbro
umbral relic
will there be new craft and new comp for s2? or will we just be able to upgrade our current crafted gear?
mint swift
It's already happening lilbro
I know
alpine wraith
depends what you seek
mint swift
Big bro
lilac stag
Get new sparks. Recraft or craft new.
alpine wraith
for most prog first weeks
you craft weapon with ascdance
and keep the patch from past patch
lilac stag
Embellishments get even more useless.
alpine wraith
likely eventually you will run two dusk/dawn or the gems one
tulip gorge
you craft weapon with ascdance
are you actually going to spend 60 crests out of 90 on crafting a weapon?
vernal junco
imo the best thing for the first week is monster hunter wilds
lilac stag
are you actually going to spend 60 crests out of 90 on crafting a weapon?
As your single biggest upgrade dps wise yes.
alpine wraith
are you actually going to spend 60 crests out of 90 on crafting a weapon?
yes we are progging
tulip gorge
I wonder if you can still do the crest upgrade discount exploit
umbral relic
i actually just got an everforged stabber, will i be able to upgrade it or will i need to craft a new dagger?
umbral relic
ok sure
lilac stag
yes. You’ll need the upgrade mats for season 2
alpine wraith
yes
umbral relic
biiiiig, thx !
tulip gorge
I assume you put the patch on bracers right
valid sundial
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
valid sundial
aw man
lilac stag
Unless some goblins are holding bags and dumps everything dirt cheap.
tulip gorge
I think we should also get a free heroic crest from killing the last boss in the raid right
we can use that on the bracers
lilac stag
The patch ilvl doesn’t matter
tulip gorge
why not bracers?
worn cape
I don't even know what I am supposed to craft next season 😂
versed terrace
Hey where can we found all bot's commands pls ?
sly shore
I don't even know what I am supposed to craft next season 😂
probably won't know til a week or two in the patch anyway
so not crafting and saving crests probably beneficial
lilac stag
it’s always dagger