yeah humidity at this point is still wonky. Out in farm lands and the corn fields especially when crops are up really hold the moisture. The were harvesting feed this year as well. Not sure why.
#subtlety
lilac stag
round latch
we have the olive trees here,we were almost 2 months late in harvesting..
idk
i think climate change n stuff alters everything
lilac stag
Interesting
Yea
Where I teach one of the sheep just had a lamb. Like wtf is that timing
Nature all off
vale pine
Picking a laner who is less likely to lose is diffrent from picking a counter ^^
vale pine
Nature all off
Is it related to global worming or just weird timing?
round latch
this is what im trying to do most of the times in my lane.See if i can win the trades,all in or call for a gank and dive
ive won a lane vs LB twice
which is a first for me as lisandra
i think she's very very good
pliant topaz
Picking a laner who is less likely to lose is diffrent from picking a counter ^^
Idk who would be a zed counter then tbh. Champs really safe in lane and hard to bully unless he fucks up. It had bad matchups but like idk what a counter does here then
vale pine
Idk who would be a zed counter then tbh. Champs really safe in lane and hard to ...
good question, i guess a champion who can keep him in lane easy without risking to die
pliant topaz
Hmm, idk if I like that definition, a lot of control mages can push him under his tower early, and if zed leta them full push, they can then bully him under tower
But then they’re easy to gank, so it’s not really that easy
Also the matchups usually get a lot harder once zed has R. Liss and malachite don’t really need to worry about post 6 matchup as much which is why I suggested them
Buf like, none of them can keep zed in lane, he can just roam.
Then in that case, best champ would be trynd, who doesn’t mind if zed roams and wins pre 6
vale pine
Hmm, idk if I like that definition, a lot of control mages can push him under hi...
zed is scary if you let him roam, having him bound to the lane is kinda of countering this
pliant topaz
Then it’s just trynd, cuz like what are you gonna do to stop
Him? He can just sack a wave and dive bot with jungler
Least trynd takes towers and can match him in sides later
round latch
Bot lane is cursed
a clusterf@ck of sht happening
ur jungler,their jungler,both midlaners,tps,support leaving the lane etc
silent ruin
If weaponmaster procs, does it consume both charges of rotten?
vale pine
Bot lane is cursed
one way to solve, play it yourself
round latch
one way to solve, play it yourself
ive adopted the opposite,leave jungle and bot lane.Too much variables that regulate how it plays out that could ruin my lane as well
ild rather take less risk
top or mid is the go for me
lilac stag
Is it related to global worming or just weird timing?
I’m guessing the warming / human impact def having something to do with all of it. We’re (fortunate enough?) used to having 4 seasons. Their timings have gotten way more odd over the last 10 years.
tribal blade
i'm sitting here in hong kong with my AC on cool and a tshirt on lol
but that's not unusual for winter here
in sub tropical climate
vale pine
uff
tribal blade
haha yeah, i've seen people come over here from other countries
and they legitimately die in the heat
round latch
in sub tropical climate
Greece isnt that far away from that,today clouds vanished though,we got 15C
like in the morning it was so cold,once the sun was up u start sweating lol
round latch
getting to like 50ºC
its a thing here as well,thats why im packing up for the north cba with heat
lilac stag
How far N?
tribal blade
getting to like 50ºC
SHEEEESH that's some heat
although just heat without humidity isn't that bad
high humidity makes the heat intolerable
tribal blade
oh ok that's pretty bad
tribal blade
yeah that's weather that'll kill you for sure
50 degrees at 90% humidity
that's insane
tribal blade
who in the hell decides to go hiking in that
alpine wraith
idk every summer in the news you have some people every week
it is like boomkin players
tribal blade
LOL
vestal escarp
El grande calor
hollow spear
I really thought you guys were exaggerating a little when you complained about DS feeling bad
It feels almost comically bad compared to trickster 😦
hollow spear
I understand the 10% cooldown reduction from trickster missing
But where is the rest coming from? Lack of Coup?
fallow nimbus
Yeah, the first set between cds is really awkward as DS
alpine wraith
yea cdr mostly
steel zinc
But where is the rest coming from? Lack of Coup?
Yes
alpine wraith
deathstalker is just damage damage damage
fallow nimbus
I would like cb on 30sec cd
fallow nimbus
Every change DS got was just more dmg shoved somewhere but what it needs is gameplay qol changes
steel zinc
Every change DS got was just more dmg shoved somewhere but what it needs is game...
Tbf deathstalker isn't as bad sub as for assa.
Assa you drop DM its over
steel zinc
Imo big cds like blades or for assa deathmark should trigger the capstone. And then buff the capstone to high heaven
You would actually feel the impact. Like for all it's downfalls you feel coups cdr and animation
hollow spear
Assa you drop DM its over
That's true, but I feel like the DS gameplay itself feels worse on Sub
The only really annoying part of DS on Assa is managing rupture, at least for me
steel zinc
The only really annoying part of DS on Assa is managing rupture, at least for me
Bosses disappear your mark is gone
Yeah you can game it still super annoying
hollow spear
Yeah, I agree with that point (hence my first line)
fallow nimbus
Quick, get DN before boss despawns for p2
hollow spear
risking it all on Court to get DN
hazy breach
But where is the rest coming from? Lack of Coup?
You coup roughly 3 times a minute, which is 15 extra cps spent for dance cdr
So you dont need to rawdog symbols as often
And you dont end up needing to delay your sectech because of darkest night either
hollow spear
The 90 second burst window also feels considerably worse
never manage to squeeze my 2nd sectech into my transmitter
hazy breach
Getting two sectechs in transmitter is a lot tighter ye
hollow spear
Came back to WoW in TWW and started with Sin
I try out Sub, it feels great on Trickster
Now I am in shambles
😄
hazy breach
Thats why we were sad about the 6% deathstalker buffs in november 
Who knows, its still the least played spec in m+ so maybe we get some more buffs for it 
(sub that is)
fallow nimbus
Trickster sub is so fluid, bugfixes and if we could see hidden blade then it would be even more perfect
hazy breach
But blizzard probably just gonna hold of on buffs until next patch
fallow nimbus
It's misery with every gcd
Everything wants to interrupt you, storm in st, DN to delay sectec
Target locked to mark
hollow spear
I've decided that the 3,2% ST dps increase (with my current gear) isn't worth it
if 11.1 really forces us into DS, I might have to go back to sin
fun-wise it's trickster sub > DS sin > DS sub for me
vale pine
Who knows, its still the least played spec in m+ so maybe we get some more buffs...
lets rather not buff it more ^^
hollow spear
I feel like they could just move the shadow-damage increase on the 4-set to a generic damage increase and reduce the amount
Probably less "theme-y", but what kind of theme does a percentage shadow damage increase follow anyways
rocky ocean
Im not playing ds in keys unless someone threatens me with gun
alpine wraith
they would need something more than a gun for me
plush roost
DS in keys didn't feel that bad to me. Only a bit annoying to DN instead of powder
silent ruin
fun-wise it's trickster sub > DS sin > DS sub for me
Fatebound assassin is funnest, n also highest dps
vale pine
Fatebound assassin is funnest, n also highest dps
trickster sub > assass
plush roost
Fatebound sub...
silent ruin
trickster sub > assass
not really, depends whether fight ends on 1.5 minute moduleo+ T window or 2 minute modulo + T window
vale pine
not really, depends whether fight ends on 1.5 minute moduleo+ T window or 2 minu...
in terms of fun
not "what is the best"
because blizzard decided to make one spec the very dominant one in tuning this xpac and it wasn't sub ^^
silent ruin
i want blizzard to remove the 30 seconds shadow / nature damage buff after cd expires, let's see who plays deathstalker then, that talent alone is so noob friendly
round latch
Where are you originally from?
North Greece(Kozani) but my place is in Thessaloniki.Currently working in Chalkidiki
round latch
Fatebound sub...
no space to define the presupposition 
aka absurdity as our math nerds say
round latch
trickster sub > assass
100%
worn ivy
3x NV 1x tfd 1x symbols 1x whatever 😄
you had to nightblade before every dance window 😄
They removed the best thing for Subtlety back in BFA tbh
it was shuriken combo
imagine if we had it now
goddam
its all because of "Zul" Fight
they were stacking 10+ subtlety rogue for that boss
round latch
we did that with like 4 or 5 but ye sub got nuked after zul
vale pine
Focusing Iris > Blood of the enemy
why not both
round latch
mfk@rs made sure it wouldnt see the day for the rest of bfa
dire geyser
how does sub opener on ansurek work if you want to hold vainsh for 1st root break
lilac stag
North Greece(Kozani) but my place is in Thessaloniki.Currently working in Chalki...
My wife’s side family came over from Norway.
candid wind
Anyone can point me to a decent Gloomblade/Dark Brew shadow dmg build? Doesn't have to be optimal, just viable.
candid wind
Sadge
worn ivy
sadge
lilac stag
why would I invite a rogue?
worn ivy
The thing they dont understand i do same rio with D tier spec with pugs 😄
alpine wraith
big feral main
worn ivy
S tier in M+
?
there is no fucking way
sub is S tier in M+
im 20+ years more than playing rogue
brother
worn ivy
i can play all 3 specs on high level
lilac stag
I equate trying to pug 15s to like trying to pug mythic ovi. Find a team.
worn ivy
i can tell you sub is not S tier
lilac stag
or reroll to meta
lilac stag
Your prio is basically in cds only. Assa does it better
alpine wraith
the joke is the tier list just uses the initial of the specs
lilac stag
Your one S tier is boss dmg
worn ivy
xD
lilac stag
Everything else is mid except survivability.
alpine wraith
lilac stag
vestal escarp
alpine wraith
sepsis is also S tier
lilac stag
they’re fucked with trinkets in s2 as well
vestal escarp
surv has to disgustingly gap all other specs to be beta
same as UH super pad profile
alpine wraith
BRRRRRRRRRR DMG instances
vestal escarp
the non dks players crashed?
alpine wraith
yea
alpine wraith
as a dk you already know you need a 78003XD and a 4090
lilac stag
turn off nameplates. 👏 👏 👏
vestal escarp
you know
alpine wraith
same as when denathrius had that thing with shaman totem
it just destroys the pipeline of broadcasting events
for everyone unless they have good HW
lilac stag
Idk we had UH. Had no issue
vestal escarp
skipping some frames only at last set of eggs with lust
alpine wraith
yea 1 is no problem but 2
and warriors etc
when parasites spawned i had no problems of course
but others got snaked
lilac stag
on god my life for battle shout. We prog killed princess no monk no warrior.
almost brought my 619 in just for rally and shout. Hahaha
vestal escarp
lilac stag
kekw heroic transmitter in Warrior's vault
jaunty umbra
I got transmitter on all of my alts
but non for rogue 
rocky ocean
how does sub opener on ansurek work if you want to hold vainsh for 1st root brea...
here is 1 log (xd)
steel zinc
here is 1 log (xd)
its still w/e in a fight over 10min small "mistakes" like this wont matter.
round latch
My wife’s side family came over from Norway.
Norway has the best women universe(ild say multiverse but ive got no scientific evidence to back it up)
fickle mason
LOL i posted that on my guild discord with no context and it was deff the play
vale pine
haha its a classic i made a while ago, i also made one for classes and hero talents
the other 2 ^^
barren junco
Okay this might be a very stupid question but why is it sometimes my finishers either generate combo points or don't consume combo points?
I'm not sure which it is but I press a finisher and I still have max combo points lmao
hoary dawn
barren junco
They've got it in the opener as well and I might just be entirely missing something but
small juniper
They've got it in the opener as well and I might just be entirely missing someth...
shadowcraft
small juniper
np
spark tusk
np
vestal escarp
LOL i posted that on my guild discord with no context and it was deff the play
All credits to fuu
pliant topaz
Np
hollow spear
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
pliant topaz
Happy Nye to all the great people in here
You’re all drinking? Without me? Bro…
jaunty heath
You’re all drinking? Without me? Bro…
I‘m drinking in your/our name brother 
pliant topaz
Mashallah cheers ❤️
patent crystal
Happy new year🎉🎉
alpine wraith
drinking a lot of coke zero
pliant topaz
Happy new year lovely people! We cope and we mald and we goon, but at the end all of us are making this community as amazing as it is! Thank you all for being part of this community! Here’s to an amazing new year full of health, success, and rank 1 parses. Also buff rogue and fix bugs Mashallah ❤️
keen dome
Hell yeah, here's to a cool new year.
small juniper
Happy new year lovely people! We cope and we mald and we goon, but at the end al...
np
tepid laurel
Happy New Year everybody ! May the Sub Rogue destroy your enemies 🙂
fallow nimbus
Surely the new year will be good to us 
teal prawn
Happy new year lovely people! We cope and we mald and we goon, but at the end al...
Happy for you
vale pine
happy new year too everyone
alpine wraith
happy new year pog
vestal escarp
Happy sub year
worn cape
Happy new year everyone! Let's hope for some bugfixes in 2025
twilit phoenix
Happy new year lovely people! We cope and we mald and we goon, but at the end al...
timid pulsar
Happy new year!
lilac stag
Dorf Assa
worn ivy
Dwarf?
median nacelle
happy new year everyone❤️
hollow spear
Happy new year!
worn ivy
You understand game design is bad when you see Envenom does more damage than Evis
lilac stag
Started quing arround 10 pm
I wish I had this much free time to waste.
worn ivy
when is server shutdown for EU
forest furnace
happy new year everyone. can anyone provide a working macro so i dont accidentally cast symbols twice? i know i saw it somewhere before and now cant find it'
digital aspen
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.!symbols
wicked joltBOT
How to Use Symbols of Death:
Symbols of Death is used with 3 or less seconds of the Symbols of Death buff remaining or if the buff is not up.
Watch your Shadow Dance cooldown before using Symbols of Death. If Shadow Dance is not on cooldown or if the remaining cooldown is lower than 10 seconds it is usually better to delay the Symbols of Death cast till after Shadow Dance.
digital aspen
well, that was my 2 attempts
lilac stag
happy new year everyone. can anyone provide a working macro so i dont accidental...
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
forest furnace
thank you!
its the thought that counts babycrow xD . and wait im not sure i understand that. why would you cast symbols after shadow dance
tribal blade
i don't have a 639 cloak yet, been using cloak as a embel slot
do i take 639 cloak, or socket
lilac stag
cata the cloak
tribal blade
is it useless ?
depends how you see it, crit/haste is a pretty garbage stat distribution on a piece for sub
you gain minimal defensiveness for it
hazy breach
The defensive proc is vastly overrated
Its fine, but not something worth using bad stats for
tribal blade
if it had a shorter ICD it could be worth using
i just took a socket btw, i don't really need a 639 cloak
worn ivy
why would you ply spyglass
if crit is whatever stat for sub
btw in aoe you do Shruiken Storm every 2nd rotten stack right?
for example you do like symbols dance cb sec tech than another storm to spread FW right?
coz it crits 100%
pliant topaz
yea, u strike first one then storm 2nd (otherwise storm eats both rotten stacks)
lilac stag
if crit is whatever stat for sub
Crit isn’t whatever
trick likes it more than ds. Just mast/vers better. That trinket has a lot mainstat
hexed sluice
Its just haste thats w/e aint it, and then you can kinda just yolo with anything else it dont matter no? least thats what the meme graph that always gets posted says
hybrid prism
Happy pre new year subtlety bros! To the few that play the coolest spec of the coolest class in the game! 🍻
We may be small in number, but we hate big in heart!(and skill)
hazy breach
In general people vastly overestimate how much your stat distribution matters
Even on a spec like sub
wind canopy
round latch
happy sub year chat
thorny rivet
I stack haste
raw wadi
tribal blade
In general people vastly overestimate how much your stat distribution matters
i'm gonna spend 10k gold regemming all my gear for 0.1% gain and you can't stop me
spark tusk
i'm gonna spend 10k gold regemming all my gear for 0.1% gain and you can't stop ...
more like 5k
shit's plummetted
tribal blade
more like 5k
true!
i forgot we're also wearing the new ring
so that's 2 sockets down
teal prawn
i forgot we're also wearing the new ring
that could change what ring enchants you want tho, better sim and change those too
tribal blade
that could change what ring enchants you want tho, better sim and change those t...
already swapped everything to mast
teal prawn
already swapped everything to mast
what if the sim wants verse
tribal blade
i already got a ton of vers on my gear
wind canopy
Get haste
worn ivy
you only get this from weekly quesst right? i[Wayward Vrykul's Lantern] i mean the champion version
fallow nimbus
I gem and enchant only vers so i can oneshot old questmobs with shadowstrike
alpine wraith
yea the lantern at champion is only weekly
but we will have like almost 1 month and a half at least to get it so JUST HIT
round latch
shit's plummetted
On EU its actually getting better,stuff on the rise again.Its impactful to farm again and craft stuff
Delve material farming has been shadow-nerfed a bit
alpine wraith
yea im beginning to stockpile for next raid
vale pine
this one is wrong kinda
haste and crit both arn't that good on subtlety, so you lose damage by having gear with either
(especially if its multiple pieces)
the meme is true tho on assassination, item level is most of the time the driving factor on it
tepid trellis
where the fuck is the new weekly quest for ring ilvl?
keen dome
It's locked behind doing the "fill a bar" thing, apperently.
tepid trellis
bruh
vale pine
classic blizzard design, happy new year^^
keen dome
It was just active for EU yesterday, since it hadn't reset yet. Which was funny. But I saw a few people (rightfully) complaining about it not being around until they did the fill a bar thing.
void hound
where the fuck is the new weekly quest for ring ilvl?
i was wondering too
keen dome
My first vault of 2025 is absolutely dire.
vale pine
My first vault of 2025 is absolutely dire.
on the pro side of things, it can just get better from here ^^
keen dome
Hell yeah, I like that way of thinking.
tepid trellis
aite done with that shit
steel zinc
where the fuck is the new weekly quest for ring ilvl?
Also it's bugged was yesterday available for eu and I did it again today after reset
Got 2 upgrades
Bro this whole timegating power behind this is so outdated
Idm gating charges etc
keen dome
It's done so slapdash. It going live with US reset in EU, etc.
steel zinc
It's done so slapdash. It going live with US reset in EU, etc.
Yup its some kinda omega nonsense
But hey I have now a 652 ring gotta worry not getting banned here doing my weekly farm raid 🤣
Imo they should just remove the timegating
keen dome
Yeah.
It's already messed up with people using faction swaps and other means anyway. Horse has bolted. Just let people max it out.
steel zinc
It's already messed up with people using faction swaps and other means anyway. H...
That's also bad. Idk you have a sale after the radials got update and people will ofc change faction and unintentionally bug the game.
Ofc people abusing it having itemlevel 1000 ring yes but normal people have now 3+ itemlevel more on the ring
lilac stag
I got suckered into running around with the mech suit
keen dome
Haha
lilac stag
it was glorious
vale pine
slow down, its new year you don't want to start your first day of the year nuking a robot
keen dome
I dunno, that sounds pretty fun to me. Year of the cool robot
lilac stag
I’m a sucker for islands. I legit just did everything and figured the upgrade was there someplace. 🏝️
keen dome
I like the zen-like routine of doing the daily content.
rigid iris
Is there any engi tinker worth using DPS-wise? We apparently can still use DF ones so shadowflame rockets would pack some punch at least
Stat-wise engi bracers are slightly pulling ahead (for me) LW ones, so I'm in the position I could pick a tinker
void hound
nothing else gives me the feeling of soulless "user retention data" as the island
dire jolt
Honestly based on previous small island metas, Siren Isle is rather generous
And the currency is pretty easily farmed.
I'm down for anything that gives copious transmog
dire jolt
those are the only two that have, likely a bug sadly it won't be fixed til next week
keen dome
Aha, mystery solved.
Thanks. I thought I was going mad since I was certain none of the others did haha
keen dome
Also it's bugged was yesterday available for eu and I did it again today after r...
It's not up for me, weirdly. Wonder if they quickly hotfixed it.
steel zinc
It's not up for me, weirdly. Wonder if they quickly hotfixed it.
I did it nearly right after reset
like 5ish hours ago
idk maybe they fixed it or something overlapped. I have now chars with 649 and 652
I am thinking about writing a ticket
cause i dont want a ban
keen dome
No chance they ban for that when it's completely their fault, imo. You just did the quest. But a ticket wouldn't hurt I guess.
upper narwhal
Nice I did the pre-reset quest time for some free ilvl that I won’t use
tribal blade
i'm reading the ToP changes
they're legit making the entire dungeon harder overall
if i'm not mistaken
which is wild
Rek the Hardened changes: Fuck Melee. - Sincerely, Blizz xoxo
keen dome
Yeah, lol
tribal blade
just from read the nerfs vs buffs, the nerfs aren't super impactful
hollow spear
Is the egg still "simbait" or are the assumed stats realistic during a boss encounter?
tribal blade
this was the biggest nerf i saw, these mobs were so difficult
tribal blade
Is the egg still "simbait" or are the assumed stats realistic during a boss enco...
iirc our TCs set it up so it's realistic
so it doesn't assume perfect conditions
i don't know the specifics though
lilac stag
Is the egg still "simbait" or are the assumed stats realistic during a boss enco...
It’s not some bait. Can open up the report and look at the buff / thresholds which are very reasonable.
tribal blade
i still wouldn't bother using it though, it's just more mental bandwidth
on top of certain fights that don't allow for you to randomly move too much
@lilac stag have you guys started court yet
hollow spear
It’s not some bait. Can open up the report and look at the buff / thresholds whi...
Looks like 20/10 (mainstat/secondary)
sick jackal
do we not get a ilvl upgrade on the ring this week?
tribal blade
last week the ring upgrade was available w/o doing anything else, this week it was gated behind other objectives
consistency 😉
lilac stag
<@226395155098370049> have you guys started court yet
Thursday.
still debating on sub/assa route. I think cdr with webs gonna be sketch
depending who is available I think we may reclear for vaults.
our makeup day for Tuesday is Monday and that is kinda sketch for a lot.
haughty mural
lilac stag
with where we are prog wise it’s min/max time. cdr just looks very tight to max out while being on webs
shell python
hey,
started playing sub
i have a question regarding the multi target rotation (wowhead guide)
mainly it's around the talent Nimble Flurry (as Trickster)
so how the cleave from having flawless form impacts the aoe roration
and basicly my surprise comes from the fact that it seems to almost not impact it at all, or i'm just reading the guide wrong
it would seem that the intention of the blizzard designers behind the nimble flurry talent is to make you want to use the affected abilities in aoe while flawless form is active, instead of the classic aoe abilities: use shadowstrike/backstack as builder and evicerate as spender, instead of shuriken storm as builder and black powder as spender.
Same idea as a fury warrior, or a MM hunter, who will prefer using their single target abilities than their aoe abilities to do dmg in multi target as long as they have a specific buff that makes their single abilities cleave.
but apparently no
there's no lines that for example would say: use shadowstrike if flawless form is active, and, use shuriken storm if it's not
it's actually the opposite, and I don't understand how it can be the case, the guide says to use shuriken storm if flawless form is up, and if not to use shadowstrike, while flawless form do not boost the damage of shuriken storm (afaik)
thanks in advance for any help
rocky ocean
only shadowstrike/backstab and secret technique proc flawless form
runic kraken
hey,
started playing sub
i have a question regarding the multi target rotation ...
Are you reading Wowhead/Icyveins?
Both guides aren’t saying to use Shuriken Storm with Flawless Form.
lilac stag
hey,
started playing sub
i have a question regarding the multi target rotation ...
Strike. Sectech. Storm, BP, Strike / Finisher
hazy breach
Yeah you would cleave damage with backstab
hazy breach
But backstab doesnt do damage
So cleaving it is far less important than getting combo points from storm
runic kraken
Ah that part.
hazy breach
But thats probably negligible now that BP got so buffed tbh, havent checked
leaden prairie
!wa
shell python
Both guides aren’t saying to use Shuriken Storm with Flawless Form.
I saw it here (image below), but ok I think I understand
the idea is not that you want to use SS because FF is up (as if FF was buffing SS or something)
the idea is, with enough targets, pressing SS is better than pressing BS, even if BS cleaves cause what matter is CP generation and SS generates more than BS (a cleaving BS or not)
but you will press SS only if FF is up cause if FF is not up, then priority number 1 becomes actually getting it back up (through BS) instead of focusing on CP generation
is this correct?
in that case, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that, on 3+ targets, you prioritise pressing SS over FF not just when FF is up, but also while you are in the window during which unseen strike's ICD is not over yet and pressing BS will not give you FF?
thanks
hazy breach
If theres ever more than one target you dont backstab
The combo points are worth more
Again, technically you could backstab to proc flawless when its down, but its kinda whatever
You strike regardless of target count though
Because strike actually does damage
rocky ocean
also coup gives a lot of stacks
shell python
ok so even if FF not up, at 2+ targets, the GCD it costs to cast BS to get it back up is not worth it (in the case where you don't have any other option to get FF up)
Nimbre Flurry would need to be way better to make you care enough about FF in AoE that you would be ok getting it back up though BS if BS is your only option I suppose
hybrid heath
Is the Algari Alchemist Stone simming correctly? I have tried it versus all of the Heroic Trinkets and it is simmer higher than all except the Transmitter.
WoWHead has it ranked as D Tier.
formal pollen
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
bleak wind
Is the Algari Alchemist Stone simming correctly? I have tried it versus all of ...
well if its barely beating heroic trinkets while being +10 ilvl what tier would you put it at
hybrid heath
well if its barely beating heroic trinkets while being +10 ilvl what tier would ...
You completely missed my question. Why did you bother responding?
bleak wind
You completely missed my question. Why did you bother responding?
ye thought that the answer would be implied my bad
hollow spear
It was for me
hybrid heath
ye thought that the answer would be implied my bad
It is also simming very closely to the same Trinkets Ranked in the A Tier at 639. I mentioned WoWhead's ranking to give as much information as possible. Not to start an argument over its ranking. Seems like your only goal was to insult me for asking a question how a trinket simming?
hollow spear
Insult? Dude, you're starting the year off on the wrong foot..
bleak wind
It is also simming very closely to the same Trinkets Ranked in the A Tier at 639...
that was not my intention at all, sorry if you felt that, yes the trinket is simming correctly, if you you think otherwise then feel free to show it, as it turns out getting a random proc while outside of your cooldowns is not very good
steel zinc
But thats probably negligible now that BP got so buffed tbh, havent checked
BP all the way.
steel zinc
It is also simming very closely to the same Trinkets Ranked in the A Tier at 639...
You play on sub both kyveza trinkets
That's it they are bis and transmitter until you get a myth track trinket in s2
Transmitter is omega busted
Queens trinket is pure gamba. It's a beacon trinket if you crit great if not gg
hybrid heath
Thanks, I'm still working on getting the other Kyveza Trinket (Void Reaper's Contract) and was trying to find my best available option.
steel zinc
Thanks, I'm still working on getting the other Kyveza Trinket (Void Reaper's Con...
Crystal in aoe then queen in st
Crystal is bis in aoe but also bit gamba when it proccs but in aoe any proc is good
silent ruin
Is legendary better gem or windsinger
Doesn't legendary have downtime on useless buffs from a dps perspective
lofty saffron
Considering supercharger and tier bonus, why isnt it a good idea to macro dance and SoD?
hazy breach
Because your second set in your burst
If you have them macroed you have to either delay your dance or not supercharge a sectech
Neither of which are good
lofty saffron
So you wouldnt delay dance in the burst to align sectech with symbols and take advantage of the 4 piece bonus?
woeful barn
Insult? Dude, you're starting the year off on the wrong foot..
Yeah bro viciously attacked didn’t you see? That was crazy. “What tier would you put it at?” Omg how dare you.
lofty saffron
Okay that makes sense. Seemed like having sectech be the first global after dance lined up the 4 set bonus the best but yeah I see where you lose overall damage in the window by not having dance up
woeful barn
That’s wild
fair stump
Crystal in aoe then queen in st
... huh... I skipped over a myth crystal
hazy breach
Most trinkets are about the same besides transmitter
A hc knife, champ crit thing from the isle, crystal, spyglass, ovinax egg
silent ruin
If you have them macroed you have to either delay your dance or not supercharge ...
Could you explain this please, cause I'm macroing then
hazy breach
If you have them macroed you have to either delay your dance or not supercharge a sectech, idk what else to say
hexed sluice
Finally getting the cadence down for using cds in m+ , Up 600k dps and 400k dps respectively for those keys from when I tried them two weeks ago. Having way more fun as Sub.
hazy breach
Like your burst window is getting scuffed one way or the other
Either you delay dancing
Or you dont get a supercharger on your second sectech
silent ruin
If you have them macroed you have to either delay your dance or not supercharge ...
oh you mean the second burst window doesn't begin at the 1.5 minute mark ? we wait for few more cdr to get dance recharge below 40 seconds ?
vale pine
Finally getting the cadence down for using cds in m+ , Up 600k dps and 400k dps ...
nice
hazy breach
oh you mean the second burst window doesn't begin at the 1.5 minute mark ? we wa...
No
Your second dance
In flag
Not your second burst window
silent ruin
but how, i always have symbols up for second dance, and so it will amplify sec tec
silent ruin
yes i delay dance, but it's within the flag + transmitter (2-3 seconds remaining) window
hollow spear
That's a dps loss
silent ruin
ah ok, so what's the adjustment to the rotation to optimize ?
silent ruin
and in the opener dance, when you do symbols ?
hazy breach
When you dance
silent ruin
ok so -> basically -> shadowstrike -> evi -> vanish -> rupture -> trinket + flag + dance + symbols + sec tec + shadow blades ---> whatever + sec tec ----> (10-11 sec remaining -> press symbols) --> and dance + cb + sec tec when sec tec off cd
does this sound right ?
silent ruin
i see, and with that dance is available for 2nd sec tec ?
hollow spear
If you don't lose uptime, yes
hollow spear
It takes a while for muscle memory to develop, but not macroing them is definitely an improvement longterm
hollow spear
Since our burst windows make up a large part of your total damage, you will definitely notice
silent ruin
and for fingers what's the best way to execute it ? having two separate dances (one with symbols one without), or pressing symbols individually at the right always with dance un-macroed to anything
right time*
hollow spear
I just have one keybind for dance and one for symbols
random hare
@vale pine
explain shadowblades before ST?
it delays cb in the sim probably because of 3 min sim but
why is the shadowblades before ST 
plush roost
it delays cb in the sim probably because of 3 min sim but
You just always use CB on the second sec tec in cds now
Max mastery buff
random hare
ye but sim definitely takes it into account no?
plush roost
So instead of wasting 2 seconds, you use it in your third dance global
Oh i see, thats weird
hazy breach
It doesnt matter
random hare
how does it not matter xd
plush roost
since last global of blades is outside dance if i had to guess
hazy breach
If you change it the number the sim spits out is within 0.1%
hazy breach
What
i need my 0.1% !!!
random hare
leaden prairie
get owned noob
vale pine
explain shadowblades before ST?
its fine, there is no diffrence in output in making the apl line more complicated
jaunty heath
Anyone got the trinket thing from bloodmallet as a screenshot real quick, it’s been floating around in here and bloodmallet is a pain on mobile
I am currently arguing „just use skardyns“ with someone that doesn’t play sub
Love those conversations
random hare
its fine, there is no diffrence in output in making the apl line more complicate...
nah i guess its good the way it is it just means i have a 2 sec window on when to press it
whether before that or after
leaden prairie
I am currently arguing „just use skardyns“ with someone that doesn’t play sub
your cds are 1min30 tho
not 2min
jaunty heath
I know
leaden prairie
so tell him he is stupid
jaunty heath
I did you dw
leaden prairie
nice
jaunty heath
It’s just a „this is true for every spec“ person
hazy breach
Plenty of 2 min specs use transmitter too
Because skardyn is ass
Theres just 2 actually good trinkets this season, and thats spymaster+transmitter
jaunty heath
Skardyns is mastery in the end if your spec isn’t a fiend for mastery it’s not good
Or like
It’s worse than transmitter
But our case is special special you cannot argue skardyns for sub at all XD
void hound
i LOVE deathstalker
i love not being able to fit my second sec tec in due to bad rng
silent ruin
Transmitter rocks except on ovinax where you can't see shit under boss fat ass
vale pine
problem with trinkets is also how much stats you get
trinkets with mainstat are typically slotted with less stats on the use effect
hollow spear
Most likely
hollow spear
On that level you probably have to send KB when you get ported down
jaunty heath
On that level you just respec 
hazy breach
Sub unironically does atleast like 50% more damage than assa does on that boss specifically
random hare
On that level you probably have to send KB when you get ported down
16-17
On 16 if u don’t kb u have to stun+evasion and shiv for sure atleast, you’ll likely need a health pot for sure otherwise u will die
No healthpot+kb+evasion you might aswell just kill urself quick I think
hazy breach
As sub it dies 4 seconds into your dance
random hare
Yea sub all the way
leaden prairie
sub is also just better for the boss before
random hare
I tried killing him on 16 once and I had to kite the mob for like 10 seconds
No kb
leaden prairie
skill issue
random hare
Not assing him again
silent ruin
Or just play fatebound with 10 heads flips
Low key take - fatebound ass with 40% crit is tanky af
random hare
hazy breach
Low key take - fatebound ass with 40% crit is tanky af
compared to an arms warrior sure
Compared to sub assa is paper
Like as sub i dont need to feint a lot of shit on 17s, as assa you need to feint on 14s 
hazy breach
Well you still do, especially during cds as its free
But technically you'll surivive without it
On stuff like siege 3rd and first grimba
vale pine
rogue in general is quite good in survival
feint is kinda op
so none of the specs is rly bad defensive wise
hazy breach
Sure, but its an unreasonable big difference between assa and the other two
Assa gets 3% leech, we get 10% dr, 10% dr from more vers and a 10% hp shield
vale pine
i am sure assassiantion will get a new talent to help in that one area it is behind soon
^^
leaden prairie
Sure, but its an unreasonable big difference between assa and the other two
uh you think so?
ass get a big evasion with ds
fallow nimbus
And even more dmg to compensate
worn ivy
Does shadowheart works with SD ?
leaden prairie
its kinda ok
vale pine
assassiantion also applies a damage reduction with garrote ^^
hazy breach
ass get a big evasion with ds
Ye and even with it up theyre more prone to oneshot than sub is without it
Besides, sub can have it too
vale pine
the biggest diffrence is stats
sub stacks vers a lot more, and hence has higher baseline dr
leaden prairie
10% aoe dr on feint is useless tho
vale pine
but it is also not unreasonable, i disagree on that front
hazy breach
10% aoe dr on feint is useless tho
5% dr isnt though
fallow nimbus
Then all fatebound coins stack dmg reduction 
silent ruin
Tbh the two specs are fairly balanced, they shine in different situations, n one requires energy management n other cd reduction management.
leaden prairie
10% hp shield verry good tho
worn ivy
Does shadowhaert work with dance?
leaden prairie
5% dr isnt though
ye i guess that one is ok
hazy breach
Does shadowhaert work with dance?
No
silent ruin
Does shadowhaert work with dance?
Don't think so
leaden prairie
idk i think assa is decent now
i never die in keys unless i int
im too tanky
but i guess outlaw is even tankier
vale pine
Does shadowhaert work with dance?
only with stealth, iirc not even subterfuge
lofty saffron
Timeline shows 2 dances in between the first and second flag window. Are you trying to fit two into every "downtime" window? Struggling to get a second dance charge in my second flag window
hazy breach
No
You cant do that on every rotation
You gotta make sure you have 1 charge and atleast 40s on your dance whenever you flag
Try to get as many as possible without breaking that rule (and not holding flag ideally)
lofty saffron
Thank you! Is this doable without talenting into 25 sec SoD? Deathstalker and Rotten build
fallow nimbus
DS is a bit awkward in that regard
Look at a few logs in ST scenarios and how they do it. Going for 2 dances between opener and 2nd cd set means you have to be precise or else you delay everything a bit
All recommended builds use the 25sec sod talent
vagrant fulcrum
I miss when we just sent dance on cd zugzug
fallow nimbus
Yeah, sub is the one spec where you don't want to use everything on cd because of charges and cdr
That's the first thing new players have to learn and 1 reason why so few play sub
twilit phoenix
Been having a blast as sub
Hopefully it ends up in a good spot s2
With trinket availability/ tuning
fallow nimbus
Trickster gameplay is overall good but DS needs to get its shit together
vestal escarp
DS gets really bad with alignments on longer fights
lofty saffron
DS is a bit awkward in that regard
I can get 2 in between the opener and next flag, but quickly fall behind after that. I end up sitting on charges of SoD and the gameplay feels really uncomfortable with a naked sectech. 30 second SoD + added energy from the adjacent talent feels smoother throughout the fight and only sims .2% lower for my ST... Just too new to know if what im doing is bad habits or not
vestal escarp
aka progress
worn ivy
Does it worth to use cursed enchants ?
hexed sluice
wish this was heroic...
steel zinc
wish this was heroic...
this would be bonkers
thorny rivet
i push my buttons
honest saddle
Does it worth to use cursed enchants ?
Yes. Mastery or vers depending on preference and gear but most likely mastery.
tribal blade
i think cursed enchants are only really worth if you're losing a secondary stat that's bad
if you use cursed mast you lose vers
if you use cursed vers you lose crit
tribal blade
very true
paper stirrup
anyone know why we spec into danse macabre if we are not stacking it (slotting in 1 backstab etc)?
hazy breach
Because 24% dmg during dance is good
paper stirrup
is not 18? shadowstrike st and evis
hazy breach
+1 baseline
paper stirrup
ah
hazy breach
But coup also counts
paper stirrup
so the extra 6% from bad spells is just not worth?
paper stirrup
ok ty
spark tusk
On EU its actually getting better,stuff on the rise again.Its impactful to farm ...
Yeah some mats are starting to go up on NA like literally over the last 24 hours it started, don't know what's happening to cause it, I feel like .7 being out as long as it has means it's not related to that patch, maybe some heavy farmers just stopped, though I figured the gathering bots would just infinitely keep going so not sure 
somber barn
!FUU
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
Yeah some mats are starting to go up on NA like literally over the last 24 hours...
might be the market yoyoing because of holidays
hollow spear
Is there some comprehensive (or at least comprehensible) guide for advanced simming?
I tried oxi's lines for the ovinax trinket but can't get it to run. I'm generally interested in understanding it to maybe sim certain encounters more precisely.
lilac stag
RS fix when
When it’s deleted in 12.0
tribal blade
When it’s deleted in 12.0
say it isn't so
oh shit the AH is actually going wild, a mat that usually hovers between 4-6 gold per is now at 10g
hollow spear
Let's hope it's just the farmers being on vacation
Should have stockpiled more flasks
lilac stag
Yeah some mats are starting to go up on NA like literally over the last 24 hours...
Dead game and I’m guessing some of the whales are stockpiling.
round latch
Yeah some mats are starting to go up on NA like literally over the last 24 hours...
its just the market rebounding
the ring kinda kickstarted everything
from enchanting to new crafts etc
domino effect on materials as well
vale pine
you can try pickpocket the recipie for the outlaw glyph and sell it, also probably good gold but not sure how high the drop rate is
vale pine
nice
round latch
in this pace i might be able to achieve my goal in a month or a bit more
alloys went from negative craft value to 130% gain
the onyl thing that currently doesnt make sense is the missive drop down
they are dirt cheap right now
lilac stag
Ore is bugged right now afaik and my guess is not a lot are alloy spec. It wasn’t sexy.
round latch
True most just spec into crafting wpns n stuff.Alloys are like 45 KPs
i can guarantee max rank alloys without conc burning
which is massive gains goldwise
blacksmithing is expensive a proffession to handle
currently sanctified alloys are still 44% negative craft value,ironclaw alloys are 50% gains core alloys like 150%
charged alloys like 70%
silver yarrow
Why are in Rtwf (or other mythic runs) running as sub? Assa Performance seems to be way better
silver yarrow
I mean even nowadays there seems to be a split between the two
hazy breach
Ye because theyre balanced
Just play whatever you prefer
Assas performance is not way better except on rashanan and ovinax
silver yarrow
Okay, so its mainly up to pred and not due to sth? I noticed that they are very close, but I was just wondering (rip outlaw)
hazy breach
Outlaw is good too
silver yarrow
Outlaw feels more janky imo, not saying it is bad, just way different
void hound
@alpine wraith can you post the sheet for all the timings agian?
alpine wraith
it is on my profile i think
void hound
ah thanks
hollow spear
I believe the tldr of the timings was "don't play ds" if I remember correctly
alpine wraith
well ds is more st but gameplay is more stale
some people may like it actually
maybe assa people
my brain is wired for trickster better tho i kinda like doing fast math on if i can sneak some sec techs here or not
void hound
i like DS gameplay in theory, but the lack of sectec cdr makes it infuriating when you get screwed over by bad rng
lilac stag
subs gameplay at its base is just bad
lilac stag
it’s not or you wouldn’t be complaining about cdr and Sectech. That’s not a minor thing.
rocky ocean
sec tech shouldn't even be a talent lol
vale pine
it is fine as a talent
the talent trees are just too big, so blizz needed to put more things into them
hazy breach
Its just in a weird spot that forces us to go down the right path on the topside of the tree
Just like how it feels weird to have gloomblade locked behind shadow focus
bright sundial
sry got a question why dos the right and left side seem useless as in the 3 ss talents and the 2 on the left before cd on symbols
alpine wraith
it is what it is
brisk onyx
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
worn ivy
Why we are not able to catalist the set piece
spark tusk
where stealthbar image
worn ivy
hollow spear
Is the WM proc actually delayed or is that my wa reacting too slowly?
spark tusk
WA reacts when you get the combo points
and yeah, sometimes WM is like slightly delayed
and by slightly I mean like .2 sec, long enough to be noticable but short enough to not ever matter or interfere with anything
hollow spear
Maybe it's my brain taking half an hour to process
But I swear that sometimes I yank out another backstab even though WM would have let me finish
hollow spear
Sometimes I wish it wasn't so quiet here, then I read the last two hours of the sin channel and change my mind
keen dome
I just did a 6m burst opener on heroic court and I feel pretty good about being able to push buttons coherently.
weak reef
Hey, new sub here. Is there any reason to not put Shadow Blades and Flagellation into one Macro?
left ledge
Yes you don’t press them together
So they don’t go into one macro
You flag, press a few buttons then blades after the sectec
Blades is shorter duration and you want it for the more ramped parts of flag (it also doesn’t work with sectec)
hollow spear
This is your opener/burst window, I hope that helps illustrating why macroing them is a bad idea 😄
swift tinsel
Hey, new sub here. Is there any reason to not put Shadow Blades and Flagellation...
its also more important that they end together vs start together, because they have different durations and you get the most benefit at the second half of flag
weak reef
Thanks everyone. Im currently trying to retrace where i misread that info to press it together
rocky ocean
its also more important that they end together vs start together, because they h...
Doesn’t the value of flag come from its stacks, not necessarily second half
swift tinsel
Doesn’t the value of flag come from its stacks, not necessarily second half
you have more stacks later in its duration
vs when you press it or the first handful of seconds
vale pine
Doesn’t the value of flag come from its stacks, not necessarily second half
the value of flag comes from the mastery
vale pine
exactly
swift tinsel
you basically have 8 seconds from when you press flag to stack it before hitting blades to take full advantage of sending finishers with full mastery stack value
gritty knot
anyone has the same issue while pressing "a" or "d" to turn sidewards its super slow? like really slow?
just logged in and its super weird...
astral axle
Yeah I had that issue and a console command can fix it
astral axle
I wanna say it was /console turnspeed 180 to turn it back to normal
gritty knot
I wanna say it was /console turnspeed 180 to turn it back to normal
hell ye, thx ma G
worked
❤️
astral axle
keen dome
Yeah, it's a known issue since this week (or patch I forget)
You can fix it with a console command. A few people in my raid are complaining about it atm
gritty knot
ye it felt so weird but then I thought maybe i am just going crazy and it was always like that and my brain is just fried because of my kids sucking every energy out of me and killing my last braincells
keen dome
I get around that by having no braincells.
gritty knot
since ur playing sub and propably not ret, u got to have atleast a few braincells mate
viral girder
So giving myself a refresher its been like a week since I had my sub active and about to go try to do delves and mythics on my rogue to start gettng geared up more
I wanna use symbols somewhat on cooldoown.
Use cold blooded with secret techniques
Save shadow blades and shadow dance for flag combos
etc
hazy breach
The main thing is to make sure you can use 2 dances and 2 symbols during flag+blades
Which means you need atleast 1 dance and ~40s left on your second charge when you flag
viral girder
Whats the flag combo without vanish and such apart of it since those are on CD from opener and will prob only line up every 2nd flag. after said opener
uneven scarab
Vanish is just for premed full cp,
Youd just get full cp->flag->rupture and go into cd’s
viral girder
God cds line up so weirdly
The more I get into the combos and shit its feeling like only 3 things ima have macrod is cold blood with secret technique, opener combo, and flag combo.
Trying too hard to keep everything on CD to not waste dps.... but then getting into it like " I NEED to not have everything on CD so I can have my burst phases"
hazy breach
Most things dont need to be used immediately
You have multiple charges of dance and symbols
lilac stag
sub doesn’t need macros
hazy breach
So you dont lose anything by holding for a bit
hollow spear
I tried to get by with using macros in the beginning, but would recommend to try learning it without them from the start
You'll eventually get rid of them and then you have to rewire your muscle memory
viral girder
Opener and Flag combo is set in stone with little to 0 variation and those are going to be the main "macros" I use in terms of combos
hazy breach
Theyre not really set in stone though
viral girder
Esp while trying to not die
hollow spear
What exactly is a "flag combo"?
sullen hare
I wanna say it was /console turnspeed 180 to turn it back to normal
Back in sanctum of domination when my raid learned of that console command we had all sorts of fun with it. I forget what its upper limit is but it's high
swift tinsel
isn't that the person who was trying to make an entire opener cast sequence macro
sullen hare
That's a lot of people new to the spec tbh
viral girder
@hazy breach So people keep mention the 2 symbols + 2 shadow dances for the combo, but where would they go into this.
viral girder
isn't that the person who was trying to make an entire opener cast sequence macr...
Already have the opener. Just trying to get the non opener.
Im not the best DPS player and this streamlines for me and my brain to not fuck it up while trying not to die and worry about mechanics
Macros are there for a reason. Dont need to judge people for using them. Not everyone is the same.
sullen hare
It's just important to know that beyond very basic quality of life stuff like a focus tricks macro (which there's even a weak aura macro that is neat) macro gameplay will always be suboptimal
hollow spear
They'll sometimes even not work at all
swift tinsel
^
viral girder
And im not trying to be optimal. Ive never tried to be optimal on DPS because theres 3-20 other dpses with me at all times.
Its not a solo game
I put the work in to carry myself. I dont need to be #1
sullen hare
Not a take I agree with but uh you do you man
swift tinsel
Sub, as a spec, doesn't really mesh well with that ethos because its not really a very rigid spec
there's a fair bit of flexibility in how it plays from pull to pull
sullen hare
I'm already busy playing suboptimally without macros
uneven scarab
Sub by design is based around getting cdr back on abilities, some times you’ll get more or less cdr
viral girder
and from what EVERYONES telling me. The combos im doing macros for are the exact same combo, almost every single time with no variance.
So I see no reason not to macro it to improve my DPS without the stress of me fucking up and dying or losing hundred thousands worths of DPS
So those big heavy flag openers and rotations are the only things I really have macro'd.
The only time it doesnt work is in dungeons and the tank doesnt give me enough time to stealth to do the opener
But since I made this rogue for raiding. Thats not a problem I will have to deal with
uneven scarab
Well you dont NEED stealth to do the sub opener
uneven scarab
Theyre probably the least important on sub out of all the rogue specs especially
viral girder
Usually in cases like this I would just use shadow meld to try to iniate the opener because the opener relies on me closing the distance with shadowstrike
But im still new and theres prob more reliable variations I can change to it
I can prob just... remove that part of the opener and do that part myself
sullen hare
Ah there it is, my beloved: #assassination message
hollow spear
IF you don't get targeted by mechanics, a castsequence opener might work. But everything afterwards is very likely to break.
viral girder
Because I cant always get into stealth to start it
keen dome
Stealth is, as I understand it, only there to give us premed and to avoid backstab annoyance. We don't actually need it to get rolling or get going.
swift tinsel
Yea premed for flag finisher at max cp is large
keen dome
Ye
viral girder
Basically what im feeling. I go into stealth for mobility, shroud, and shadow dance.
Thats... basically it
keen dome
You don't go into stealth for shadow dance - you actively can't.
viral girder
besides that its just vnaish shadow strike or a shadowmeld shadowstrike
viral girder
You don't go into stealth for shadow dance - you actively can't.
You know what I Mean
It activates "stealth"
without stealthing
uneven scarab
its stealth “effects”
viral girder
Same for meld. Its a stealth but not a stealth. Its... weird.
uneven scarab
Not true stealth tho
keen dome
It allows you to use abilities that require stealth but it is different from stealth.
viral girder
Like meld doesnt stealth me, but it allows me to use shadow strike and stealth moves
Granted only once
But still
keen dome
But with restealthing as Sub - if your tank is pulling decently it is, in my experience, pretty whatever. You'll just get ruptures rolling anyway if you can't dance or w/e.
sullen hare
That's my experience as well
keen dome
I think finding a way that works for you is cool, but I think your macro's may end up overcomplicating it. You could probably reduce them and make it a bit more comfortable?
uneven scarab
Yeah sub wants to be in cd’s asap
swift tinsel
with enough mobs you'll get max cp from a single storm anyways so premed doesn't matter there
so you just kinda supplement that
viral girder
I think finding a way that works for you is cool, but I think your macro's may e...
It only complicates it while macro is in testing phase. ONce I have the macro done, its done. Until nerfs or things happen to change it like adding a trinket proc or something into it
Because oh boy of all things in the game... the thing im ass with the most... is on use effects on trinkets
I never know when the fuck to use them
swift tinsel
Look at their duration and try and fit that around your cooldowns
16 second buff? Use with blades
keen dome
What happens if one of the Evis's procs coup in the opener? Does it still cast it with an Eviserate thing?
sullen hare
Here's the good news! Transmitter lines up perfectly with our cooldowns
swift tinsel
20 second buff? use 4 seconds into flag
jaunty heath
Transmitter in a full cooldown macro 
hollow spear
If the reason for building this macro is not getting distracted/adhd, then transmitter is probably bad news 😅
sullen hare
I was kinda hoping no one would point that out in plain text lol
swift tinsel
have you met Orb
keen dome
Orb is off on an adventure
Out to sea.
Never to be seen again. Look at it go. Floating off.. away...
jaunty heath
Have you met any of those while cast sequence macros?
swift tinsel
Omg I should have made a Bilbo meme with Orb instead
swift tinsel
"I'm going on an adventure!"
viral girder
If the reason for building this macro is not getting distracted/adhd, then trans...
Its entirely to prevent my distractions and adhd brains focusing on my raid group and myself not dying because I tunnel visioned the combo just to fuck it up half way thrugh and lose about 80% of my burst because of the fuck up.
swift tinsel
wait are you raidleading as sub?
sullen hare
Last time I saw orb was about 2:00 and then off he went god bless him
keen dome
My orb on Queen this evening decided to hover on top of goop.
viral girder
Not raid lead, but I still try to pay attention to what others do as an officer of the guild.
sullen hare
My orb on Queen this evening decided to hover on top of goop.
My favorite is when it literally goes off an edge
keen dome
Raiding leading as Sub is fine, and funny.
keen dome
My favorite is when it literally goes off an edge
Siege of Boralus final boss, final platform.
swift tinsel
gotta 360 no scope the spawn position
sullen hare
Siege of Boralus final boss, final platform.
Fucking kill me LOL
viral girder
Im a holy pally / in general healer main. But making a rogue so im not healing every week and our guild needs more consistent DPS and might go rogue for season 2 for that.
Its why I made this rogue and powered it up as fast as I could in like 2 days
uneven scarab
Not raid lead, but I still try to pay attention to what others do as an officer ...
im an O in my guild as well, took alot of time getting my sub muscle memory down before i commited years back. But theres just so much optimization potentially lost in sequence macros like that
viral girder
Like I said. Im not trying to be #1. My brain wont allow that even if I wasnt an officer paying attention to that.
Im just trying not to be #20
uneven scarab
Fair
keen dome
Ye, I get that. And finding a way to play that works for you is cool and good. But I would suggest trying a few lesser macro's first instead of a cast sequence for Sub
Like putting SecTec+CB together. Dance+Symbols.
uneven scarab
Guess i wouldn’t understand that so much from someone who really likes to be #1
keen dome
Less buttons, suboptimal, but more control.
viral girder
And like I said. I only really have those 2 macros
Flag and Opener
The rest are just simple things
This is all I have right now. Havent even did the normal flag one
But TOT is my misdirect macro just... changed to tricks
Distraction is just a @cursor macro
hollow spear
I just feel like subtlety rogue is not really conducive to the castsequence approach
viral girder
Stun is just kidney shot cheap shot changing macro
uneven scarab
Again cdr, kinda makes stuff like that very weird
viral girder
To take less button space
hollow spear
There must be other specs who are better for that
viral girder
Imho rogue is the BEST one for cast sequence macros
uneven scarab
I dont think so
viral girder
I consistently play other classes and imho no other class lines up cds and precise combos like rogue does
viral girder
Warrior is literally 3 buttons
keen dome
Sub doesn't line up CD's precisely, though.
viral girder
Sometimes 4
uneven scarab
Every 1 min 30 u press all ur buttons
viral girder
I have a single macro for that
That just presses it all at once because its not on GCD
besides that its literally bloodthirst, enrage, and what ever else the main 3
uneven scarab
I more meant arms
viral girder
Sometimes a whirldwind mixed in for aoe cleave pasive
uneven scarab
but same thing tbu
uneven scarab
sad
keen dome
I am curious what happens when you get coup de grace in your opener macro? Does it cast it properly?
uneven scarab
Arms is based
viral girder
I am curious what happens when you get coup de grace in your opener macro? Does ...
Is that double eviscerate?
keen dome
It's Coup de Grace, tricksters keystone. It is Eviserate, but I don't know if the macro casts it because it's technically called something different. Which is wy I'm curious.
uneven scarab
It should
viral girder
I dont play trickster
uneven scarab
viral girder
Im using the deathstalker single target build