subtlety

[sinful sluice]

why is +13 so hard

we went full 630+ party and we still lack dmg

[woeful horizon]

any reason that even in when sub is meta theres so few ppl playing it

random thoughts

[hazy breach]

Ideas that have been thrown around is unintuitive gameplay, lack of cool animation as well as just having a reputation for being hard puts a lot of people off

[woeful horizon]

aint sub like the easiest rogue spec after dust removal

and cd align

im no expert thought it just seems to be for me

[hazy breach]

[sinful sluice]

in my opinion i just think assa rogue is just too easy / strong right now

so ppl just go assa instead of putting time to learn sub

just guessing

[hazy breach]

Now instead of moving flag+blades around you can move dances+symbols around

Its also way easier to fuck yourself over and not have 2 dances for cds now

And thats really bad to do

[sinful sluice]

i feel like even if i have 1 symbols by flag, i still get second one 2-3 seconds afterwards

is it really that bad?

same for dances

[hazy breach]

Well you dont need both up exactly when you cast flag

But you want to use it to reduce the cd of sectech from 10s to 0

And then have the second charger hit sectech

[woeful horizon]

sub/outlaw is kinda bad for me . cause it really feels bad to play with high ping imo

[sinful sluice]

thats true

coup almost killed me here

i hope they remove the dash feature tho

this is not the first time that i almost got killed because of it

[hazy breach]

Ye the dash is cringe

Has griefed me on queen too

[lilac stag]

Pfft not even close. Worse case step back.

[sinful sluice]

How long did you take to get to queen?

Our guild plays 6 hrs per week and now on ovinax 10%

[strange chasm]

has already griefed me lmao

[short radish]

was sub unpopular even before shadow dust?

[lilac stag]

it’s only popular when broken damage

Or assa complete trash damage.
Otherwise playrate abysmal after shuriken combo destruction.

This is first time that the spec has been in a good spot, but seeing play numbers still super low. Assa just has a foot hold on everything pve right now.

[marble turtle]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[lilac stag]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[strange chasm]

@hazy breach which ad are you popping cds on?

The one with the absorb shield?

[hazy breach]

First platform

If you do on the second you will not have your cooldown up for when p3 starts

[warm aspen]

i think back in df s1 sub was played, not ret levels of popular but still not bfa/current levels

[hazy breach]

On the guardian

[warm aspen]

that was when we were actually easy for once lmao

[lucid jackal]

ye cd 1st platform

CD boss

[strange chasm]

Which ad are we cding?

guardian?

[hazy breach]

Ye

I always made sure to have enough cp for rupture when i get knocked so i can immediately go step>flag>rupture once i land (and midair i used my transmitter angled so that if it spawns the circle it spawns near where the mobs will be tanked)

But it depends on if your group is planning to use 2 portals there or no, we usually killed right after the grip, aka right after my second sectech hits

[mighty delta]

wait so with symbols on single are we doing first, second at 3 sec pandemic, then do we keep going with the 3rd charge? or hold that one for next dance

[native zodiac]

it depends on your sectech cd

you just send your 3rd dance/symbols as soon as you can fit sectech in that dance

i played sub on ovinax today and it actually felt p fucking good ngl

[warm aspen]

man madness of the betrayer

is just straight fucking worthless

huh

im guessing blizz took care to make sure that none of the heroic TW stuff would be bis

so ppl wouldn't have to try to rng into it

[lucid jackal]

@hazy breach

U here?

[azure mauve]

wait replicating shadows sims higher for me in st

is this legit?

[native zodiac]

yes

[hazy breach]

Ye unfortunately

Im on that 6am demon sleep schedule 💀

[hazy breach]

Ye sub is strong, its just assa being borderline broken on that fight

So lots of people will pivot to it over sub, despite sub also being strong there

[native zodiac]

ye, queen is dead so im just sending sub on farm now

supercharger kinda made me hate assa ngl compared to sub

[warm aspen]

as a m+ only andy i don't feel like sin is "borderline" broken lmao

more like cracked out of its mind

chad thundercock dps

[native zodiac]

the first 3 worm spawn is a bit scuffed for sub aswell, cds come up when everything is dead but oh well

[lucid jackal]

how do U deal with TFD

Cuz sectec comes up RIGHT as ur dance is gonna end

Do U just wait on the dance to end before sectec

or do U push both sectec in the window

[plush roost]

Yeah I'd love to play sub on ovinax but sin is just giga

Did 3.4mil on that boss before wiping at 6%

Cant be beat

[native zodiac]

i did 2.4m on sub and got a r4

[sharp kernel]

Any cap on sec tec for targets?

What should I be simming for aoe?

Like target count and duration

[warm aspen]

sectech is soft capped

and the cap is 1 target

xDDDDD

"reduced dmg to all secondary targets"

becuz fuck us

[spark tusk]

It increases rupture's damage too, it's not just the cleave

[azure mauve]

rank 1 on mythic ansurek bois

it was the replicating shadows diffy

[azure mauve]

ye true i guess i still just associate with a 2 target talent

[spark tusk]

It also hurts your damage cause the bug

[uncut bloom]

Only a 10 dawnbreaker but I love how this spec plays.

[paper flower]

do we still backstab during dance+shadow-blade window? for the danse macabre stack? It would waste 1 stack of the rotten buff though (approx. 1mil dmg diff on my character)

[tepid trellis]

We don’t. No

[warm aspen]

plus 10 keys are so rough lol

played a +10 with another 630 ilvl lock earlier tonight

we ended up denying each other's dmg pads xD

[uncut bloom]

Yeah just gotta hope you outburst everyone in low keys

[calm grail]

Is it still recommended to use evis as first finisher in dance if coup is up? Fells like a lot of cdr wasted on sectec

[spark tusk]

no

sectec first

though

Often you can uh

like, if sectec has 10 sec on cd left

you can start your dance, strike evis, strike sectec

just start your dance / symbols early so you don't waste the CDR, and stillget the coup buff

it's pretty dynamic

[calm grail]

sounds reasonable and what i thought/did aswell, just wanted to make sure. ty!

[tight bloom]

How do you guys handle transmitter? On the wowhead guide it's says to use it with SD and SoD. Seems pretty piano playing to me

[alpine wraith]

you use it with cds yes

usually as you use flag

[tight bloom]

Just got it y-day in the vault, having a hard time using it so far

[alpine wraith]

you'll get used to it

[tight bloom]

So we use it with flag and not SD/SoD

[vale pine]

you can macro it to flag

then when you press it, you have time to activate it before your secrte cast

there is enough time to finish the task between that

[outer parrot]

i feel like im doing something fundamentally wrong, second cd window seems like im sending symbols for secret tech or holding it which means tech stays off cd way too long

is there a guide specifically for coup de grace like timing windows seem very unintuitive

[vale pine]

you just ignore coup

just use secret first in dance

a good way to think about the rotaiton is to put secret at the center

secret techniques cd is your main limiting factor

so you put cooldowns around secret technique

during flag you want 2x secret, 2x dance, 2x symbols

so you hold your cd's closer to them comming up

outside of this, you can use symbols/dance when secret is ~8 sec left on cooldown

which would also move secret as 2nd finisher in dance

during flag, you want to secret first in dance to get the cdr on it rolling and dance back to back

[outer parrot]

alright that makes a lot more sense thank you

[near rivet]

do we still should wait a few globals between dance 1 and dance 2 in flag or its okay to do it back to back?

i try to fire second one when sec tec cd is under 15 seconds or so

[tribal blade]

it's kind of funny how what we base the entire rotation around keeps changing

during SL it was symbols

then starting DF it was dance

then after the rework it was so many different things it broke people's brains

and then it went back to symbols

[outer parrot]

ya my brain is fully broken

[tribal blade]

and now it's around sec tec

[vale pine]

we dance back to back, blades is only 16 sec, so you don't have that much time to "wait"

[vale pine]

was still symbols in DF

[tribal blade]

ah i guess so

i vaguely remember it being press on cd

[tulip badger]

Best naked symbols is next one after cd's?

[tribal blade]

it seems like a decade ago

[vale pine]

naked sysmbols shouldn't happen much

if you need to send naked

closer to blades/flag comming up

[haughty mural]

INVOKE ANCIENT SYMBOLS OF POWER

ofc everything is around that

[tribal blade]

it's less so of planning to send a naked symbols

it's just when you see how many charges you have/sectec off cd/cds are far away from being used/dance is on cd

[outer parrot]

doesnt having 3 stacks of it make that like never a thing

[tribal blade]

depends on dance cdr

the biggest thing gating sub's damage right now seems to be dance cdr

[bronze turret]

Weird place to find sheffield united fans

[outer parrot]

i swear every time i post something in a public discord someone says this

[bronze turret]

Its just very unexpected in a football world with PL and top clubs. But i assume ur a sheffield native

[outer parrot]

theres dozens of us!

ya i am

[bronze turret]

I’m an lfc fan, yesyes big club etc. But its been my fav team since 2001 or something. I had a soft spot for Chris Wilder and Sheffield during their innovative PL days with overlapping center halves

Which also why Baldocks passing felt way more than it probably should have!

[outer parrot]

was a huge shame that, on his kids birthday too..

[vestal escarp]

death grip > iron wire

[haughty mural]

[bronze turret]

Damn, didnt know that..

[carmine portal]

I got a hero track Scarbrood, is it worth using over the AByssal Trap?

[alpine wraith]

you can sim both trinkets are kinda bad for sub

abyssal trap is more of an aoe trink too

[sinful sluice]

Do we send 3rd dance right away after opener?

[alpine wraith]

depends on boss

but usually you send that dance when sec tech cd is up

[next valley]

Didn't expect to see this lol

Newcastle ftw

[rancid lichen]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[carmine portal]

Bigup Newcatle, not from there but my parents live nearby now and friendliest ppl i've ever met

[carmine portal]

Abyssal does like 50+mil dmg a dungeon, basically does the same as my 626 voidreapers contract

[alpine wraith]

if you didnt know abyssal is uncapped it can shine on some dungeons

usually our best m+ trinkets are ovi nax or knife tho

apart from transmitter

i do like mandate it adds a strong execute and you can snipe things too

[carmine portal]

Yeah I've really enjoyed trap actually, 1min CD feels really nice in the 10s im doing

[sly shore]

so technically it does less than void reapers because they both have main stat

and voidreapers has more main stat

[mint swift]

Are these good stats for sub

[keen dome]

perfectly balanced in all things.

[haughty mural]

did you get it yet ?

[keen dome]

Get what? most things go over my head.

[cloud rover]

He asking this

With Assa spec

dont believe his leis

[haughty mural]

ur transmitter

[keen dome]

oh, haha, hell no.

Next week!

[haughty mural]

[mint swift]

Im asking in case i wanna swap to sub trust

[keen dome]

1% haste is too high

[mint swift]

Is this better?

[cloud rover]

Good ol Dragonflight haste

[keen dome]

Perfect

[haughty mural]

give us the windwalker treatmeant

[mint swift]

Right now i can play sub

Fr tho i just have mast and crit stacked which i guess is ok for sub?
not good but ok i guess?

[keen dome]

It's fine. probably not as good as Vers/mast

these are mine atm:

Too much crit, not enough versa. too lazy to recraft 3 items to versa/mast.

[mint swift]

Fair

These are mine rn

real ones

not the silly ones

[keen dome]

Ye probably fine. Also high5 same trinkets.

[mint swift]

:D

is your grace mythic tho :)

[keen dome]

Yep, lmao

it refuses to give me the Sub trinket.

[mint swift]

Trans?

transmistter

i mean

[keen dome]

I don't think statting is that important this season. Like, just get a ton of mastery and ideally versatility and blast. Versa pot, etc. And yeah, transmitter. Cursed to never get it.

[mint swift]

Fair

i got sac and grace for st and sac and crystal for aoe

[keen dome]

Nice

[languid stone]

Is it okay to macro Shadow Dance with SoD ?

[keen dome]

You can, but it's suboptimal to do so and you absolutely want both buttons your bars regardless. I personally do (Dance + SoD, then a separate just SoD button) and I don't have a huge issue with it, but I don't mind being suboptimal for a bit of comfort.

[languid stone]

I don't mind it either, whats the usual timing for the standalone SoD which we use with SecTech I assume ?

Is it like Opener Burst with Flag + SB and 2 back to back SD+SoD then standalone SoD+SecTech ?

[timid jolt]

Bruh I’m trying to figure out a rotation but all the guides seem to say the same but different things lol anyone have a for a dummies version I could work off of

[keen dome]

I recommend the WoWhead guide. It's very in-depth and solid.

But which bit are you struggling with? Might be able to point you in the right direction.

[spark tusk]

maintain rupture outside of dance use backstab/strike to build eviscerate to spend, use sectec on cooldown

(this is the tricky part) when you use sectec (or when you are about to use sectec) you need to look ahead and plan if you will use dance, symbols, both, or neither with sectec, based on the cd/charges remaining of each. You want to have 2 charges of dance/sod by the time you press your first sectec during cooldowns. A simple rule of thumb to get started with is: If Flag has 30 seconds left, do not use dance/sod with sectec, otherwise do. Once flag has less than 20 seconds left, don't even use sectec and wait until flag is rolling.

Opener/cd sequence: https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1271971289396936735 and in picture.

that's the quick version, wowhead guide is updated as well and good, like Gestalt said, hope this helps

you'll find as you play that that rule of thumb isn't perfect but it's a simple way to get started with getting your feet wet in the spec

[timid jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/my-man-denzel-my-man-denzel-washington-myyyy-man-gif-376647294737879812

Thanks bro I’ve been kinda following the method guide since it has more of a list than a “if x then y”

I think it’s also aoe and my understanding of what I’m doing like I’m trying to just flood with energy/points to get as many evis as possible until the cds line up?

[spark tusk]

yeah.

Aoe is: spread ruptures if targets will live. Builders:

1. strike in dance
2. storm if you have nimble flurry up
3. backstab if you don't have nimble up (because you want to get flurry up as soon as possible)

spend on evis, rules about sectec are all still the same as before

Aoe is basically the same really as st

it's just you are getting more points from storm so more cdr

and you need to follow that builder prio to make sure you have flurry up

still eviscerate as finisher, until like ~12 targets (i think) then black powder

[timid jolt]

Ah ok I think I was over prioritizing powder

[golden totem]

Yeah you wanna have 2 dances for incoming flag timing so sometimes you get to naked symbol + sectec.
You also can press symbol alone during burst in pandemic range (3sec or less on curent symbol)

[golden totem]

Only time I press powder is when I'm not in range for evis tbf

[spark tusk]

It's really a vibe I really enjoy that ST/aoe build are basically identical with only 1-2 points moved around, and those points aren't vital for aoe, they're just slight optimizations, so if you don't swap build you're like totally fine

I always have this angst when I play assa and we kill a raid boss that "oh, I'm in my ST spec and trash is going to feel awful and boring unless I respec, then respec back after trash, ugh"

but for sub it's literally just go

all the time

don't have to worry about that at all, you're powerful no matter what

aoe build in st? st build in aoe? all good

[spark tusk]

Yeah I only mention BP for completeness, but I rarely, if ever, use it, I'm not counting mobs, it's just when there are absolutely enormous pulls and I'm like "wowza that's a lot of mobs so i guess I'll powder now "

[golden totem]

I feel u

TIME TO PAD

[timid jolt]

I’m digging the class tho just working through open world stuff getting muscle memory down but it’s sick lol

[golden totem]

It feels good

[spark tusk]

They did us good in 11.0.5

well

bugs aside

bugs are still bad but that's an everyone problem

[timid jolt]

It’s wild with mobility too which is great for my need to not be slow lol

[coarse nexus]

how many mobs is first pull of nw? only pull ive ever pressed bp lol

[alpine wraith]

depends on how hard you go

if tank grabs shield you can pull like 4 packs into boss

and just shield first zolramus while you kill it and cleave boss

[sly shore]

my assa stats are something else rn

I need crit

[alpine wraith]

mut mut mut mut

kieron trying to do a darkest night envenom

[sly shore]

get me queen ring, stat!

[keen dome]

Haha, that haste, zooming

[sly shore]

the sikran neck is such a filthy amount of haste

and transmitter

[keen dome]

Oh yeah, the neck is loaded.

[alpine wraith]

i have 2 rings saved to do a super mastery meme time but i cant until i craft engi helmet next week

[spark tusk]

I love that the boe items have verse crit mastery

[alpine wraith]

last time i tried i got to 25k mastery

[spark tusk]

so the access that I have to myth track is all the right sub stats

[alpine wraith]

i think i can go EVEN FURTHER BEYOND

[spark tusk]

was able to snag a myth belt with socket for like 600k

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[modest river]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

i only bough ring and shoulder with leech

by belt already had avo and i swim in sockets so i socketed it

the one from ulgrax

[keen dome]

I forgot I looted the Bloodtwister helm on heroic a few weeks back and shoved it in my vault. Finally got heroic gloves, so swapped my tier helm to it.

[alpine wraith]

i also have 1 saved for engi helmet

[spark tusk]

yeah I am now done with sockets, I have one spare socket for myth track helm when I get it and then I am fully socketed for the season

[keen dome]

I'm still hoping for a Queen ring, but at least once 11.0.7 rolls around it'll matter less, probably.

[spark tusk]

I lucked out with a hero track one from vault

this week

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[spark tusk]

truely blessed

[keen dome]

I've got a hero track Nerubian Signet so I'm set on one ring unless I get the Myth version from vault.

[spark tusk]

I think I'm 100% done on hero track stuff, nothing left to get, unless I care to get a better m+ trinket, have contract + transmitter now

[keen dome]

I need to grind 180 gilded to take my wrists and neck to 636..

[spark tusk]

jump 3 times

yeah I need to actually do gilded content...

[keen dome]

It honestly doesn't take TOO long to get 90 on reset since you can get 30 / 45 from the raid very quickly on heroic (Depending on if you do queen or not)

[spark tusk]

ngl hard to pull myself into playing when I could be posting auctions, when I step away to do content, I'm not posting or processing crafts...

[keen dome]

[spark tusk]

Even when I've found I do have the time to do a key

I start sweating when I leave town

[keen dome]

I'll be happy if I hit 630+ before the end of S1, I think.

[spark tusk]

Same

I'm at 623 now

[keen dome]

Probably be a solid ilevel for AotC Week 1/2 in S2.

[cloud rover]

You dont raid mythic right?

[thick field]

what do ilvls look like in s2? i havent playe second season of an xpac in a decade

[keen dome]

No clue yet!

[thick field]

is normal s2 gear equiv of mythic s1 gear, or is there some overlap?

i mean typically in the past

[keen dome]

Nah. I should start pugging the first two/four but I am quite lazy right now.

[cloud rover]

It was changed last expac

[keen dome]

Tends to be higher. It varies and I don't know if they'll end up doing the DF S2 -> S3 jump, or the S1 -> S2 jump.

[cloud rover]

and ilvl were changed with TWW too

so no clue atm

[thick field]

okay gotcha, what was the s2-s3 jump vs s1-s2 jump for df?

[alpine wraith]

the jump goes super harder now

[keen dome]

It's been a minute but S1 -> S2 was something like Mythic S1 gear was close to capped Heroic S2 gear? it wasn't a big jump and you were pretty high ilevel going into S2. Whereas in S2 -> S3, it was gigantic. Something like 30 - 40 iLevels?

[alpine wraith]

used to be mythic ilvl s1 was normal s2

but now it was mythic s1 is lfr s2

and also M gear being 13 higher than hero

instead of 6

[thick field]

ah okay gotcha

[keen dome]

We'll have to see but I personally prefer the small leaps but the whole loot situation in TWW is pretty fucked.

[alpine wraith]

it will be kinda fucked as hero talents get nothing cool

[storm vault]

You mean 15/30?

[keen dome]

Champion (Normal) and Hero (Heroic) gear effectively caps at the same point of 619. 623 and 626 need gilded crests. And then Myth (Mythic gear) goes up to 639.

[keen dome]

Nope! 15 + 15 (+15 from converting 90 hero crests)

[thick field]

i feel like larger leaps make it a bit more easily accesible if i want to change classes though right? doesnt feel as bad if i'm not 630 since everyone is behind and replacing stuff with normal/rf pieces anyways

[storm vault]

Oh right

[storm vault]

Personally im a fan of it

Means I can stretch my play over months instead of weeks

Especially since I don't play as much

[keen dome]

I think it just needs one or two small tweaks (Namely letting you take Hero gear to 626 with Hero crests, which solves a few problems)

[storm vault]

Id say just 623 so you're not literally wasting a mythic crest by upgrading instead of getting a mythic drop

[keen dome]

A single step above normal is a bit weird, though. Which is why 626 is probably better. You want there to be some identity between the difficulties with some power overlap.

It also returns Myth to 4 steps, which means crafted can be 60 instead of 90 crests (and also less crests to 4/4 a Myth piece, which means less brainless grinding, etc)

My feeling is it just needs a few tweaks to smooth it out. Because right now it's great to 619 then a gigantic wall built on RNG and tedium. Small tweaks massively smooth it out to an incline.

[storm vault]

Thats the exact reason I dont want 626 though. Cant stand seeing mfs in my M+ groups at my ilvl doing 30% less damage than me

Ilvl turns into as much of an identifier at higher keys

Those are the people i end up doing the crest grinds with somehow 😦

Getting to 623 reduces the number of crests you need by a significant amount already

You'd all be where I am now as I literally didn't upgrade anything past 619 til I was already done crafting knowing itd be wasting a crest if I wanted to replace

[keen dome]

You'd still be doing crest grinds with those people, except it'd be marginally better. More gear accessibility is a way to fix that, not less. Which is why making it 626 smooths it out more. Higher iLevel, easier access to gear, smoother progression. It creates less friction, more people engaging with content, healthier groups, etc.

People who only engage with Heroic won't feel they have to engage with Mythic+ content as much to finish off their Hero peices, either.

[cloud rover]

Main Problem for me

you waste 30 Crests

by crafting something on 636

[vale pine]

they wanted crafting to play less of a role in gearing

[hazy breach]

Ye but if you dont have anything to upgrade with your crests its fine

[vale pine]

thats why upgrading is 60 crests while crafting 90

basically a technique to make the gearing process longer

[hazy breach]

Upgrading is 75 though from 623, which most myth items youll get are

[vale pine]

so people feel excited for upgrades more

[vale pine]

good point thats 5 crests less then

[hazy breach]

Idk i feel like its fine to have crafting be slightly less efficient since its so deterministic

[vale pine]

i don't think its bad

the entire upgrade and gearing system just became slower

which is what the dev team wanted, if thats what you as a player want or not is secondary and opinions differ

we as player typically like more deterministic loot with quick upgrades

but crafting isn't super exciting as a content for gearing

i wouldn't be surprised if they get rid of it in the next xpac

[keen dome]

I think the point of crafting being more, but deterministic is a good one. Although I feel it being lower iLevel and more crests is a bit silly. One or the other? But ultimately i can't fault the crafting system as it's just plain good for the game. Deterministic loot is good.

[cloud rover]

Its 60 to 636

[hazy breach]

Well ye that true

But it goes to 639, which crafted doesnt

[cloud rover]

ye

[keen dome]

I'm dying on my hill of "Just make 626 be Hero and that'd solve everything I can currently think of" though.

[cloud rover]

Yeah

[vale pine]

hero track is in a weird spot

[cloud rover]

Hero track is worthless

because most people upgrade to 619

and thats it

can aswell use champion stuff

[hazy breach]

Ye champion shouldnt stop at the same point as you need gilded crests

Hero should prob be upto 623 and champion stop at 616 or something

[keen dome]

Maybe, yeah. I just don't see the harm in doing the full 626 on hero and then having Myth be 4/4 though.

[hazy breach]

So you dont feel like "wasting" your myth crests on a 619>623 upgrade

[cloud rover]

I mena

the gap is still 7 ilvl

from 616 to 623

you just made the gap bigger to mythic

[hazy breach]

I meant as in you could upgrade your hero items to 623 with runed

[cloud rover]

Oh yeah

[hazy breach]

And then only the 623>626 is myth

[lilac stag]

only heroic shit you're spending mythic crests on is BiS trinkets that you can't kill the boss on mythic yet

[cloud rover]

Would be fair

yes

[hazy breach]

The fact that you can "waste" crests is bad imo

[cloud rover]

I mean Runed crests are useless as soon as you ahve 619 on your main

You save so many crests

on alts after that

[hazy breach]

Obviously getting a drop from the later bosses is gonna waste your crests but thats less of an issue than the hero track upgrade to 623 just 100% wasting it

[cloud rover]

Yeah

I didnt upgrade something to 626 except a weapon

[keen dome]

This would also fit a lot better with the way they've set up gilded on heroic, too, thinking about it.

[cloud rover]

and im so gilded crest starved

[keen dome]

ye

[hazy breach]

Everybody is

[keen dome]

Make a timed M+ drop 15 crests plz.

I don't have a strong argument as to why it would be better outside of "I want it to be that way"

[cloud rover]

I WANT IT THAT WAY

TELL ME WHY

AINT NOTHING BUT A HEARTACHE

[keen dome]

hahah

[hazy breach]

Backstreet looking aahh

[cloud rover]

If you think about it

8 runs for your vault

[feral sand]

hello, can anyone explain pls, how to make set items scaleable for pvp with heraldies? i got that u can craft algari item and then convert it into set piece. But if i already have set piece and it is not pvp scaleable, how to make it?

[cloud rover]

are 96 crests

[keen dome]

Ye

[cloud rover]

it does make sense

i mean you could argue

[vale pine]

the system should be easy to understand and not require thinking

[cloud rover]

making the last vault choice for m+ 6dungeons

[keen dome]

Like, one run being an upgrade just feels better too.

[cloud rover]

and making timed runs 15 crest

would make it faster

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely

1/3/6 and 15 per run imo

[cloud rover]

Yeah it feels good on alts

upgrading a piece after one dungeon

for runed that is

[plush violet]

Can someone explain why in ST at least in logs people are sending sectech as first global in dance i understood that with shadowdust but now is it because of the tier set ?

if you're playing trickster that is

[hazy breach]

Because otherwise you wont fit two into your bursts now that blades is shorter

Or have it be the last second, and thus you wont be able to use your 4p efficiently

[plush violet]

ah, makes sense thanks

[cloud rover]

and fuck that depleted give less crests

AND FUCKIGN DELETED VALORSTONES

[keen dome]

Yeah. Like, I dunno. Maybe just completion should give it. No real loss for depeletion

Would reduce friction because you know, much like vautl, that just finsihing is still worth the effort.

Reducing friction between players and making content more accessible is just good imo. Like, you want some friction, but it shouldn't be between players created by systems that punish failure like how M+ does. Run the content because you enjoy it, not because you need to run it to do the stuff you wanna do.

[cloud rover]

depleting is also a bad thing

Like making a group for ara kara 10

[keen dome]

I can't recall if it was in here, or another discord but someone broguht up the idea of just removing depeletion entirely. If you don't time it, you just get to do the key again. It can only go up, not down.

[cloud rover]

tank decides to pull everything to the first miniboss (because he saw it on yt and thinks he is cool doing so) and people leave instant

[keen dome]

Ye. I've had that happen twice on my Ara keys.

great use of time

[cloud rover]

and the person with ara kara 10 has a 9

[vale pine]

i do like the idea of no loot upgrades above heroic

[cloud rover]

and now its useless

[keen dome]

So heroic is where ilevel just stops or?

[vale pine]

so mythic is not driven by loot

[cloud rover]

Less player play Mythic than

[vale pine]

but by cosmetics, titles and the challange

[keen dome]

Oh, yeah, agreed.

[cloud rover]

Heavily disagree

[vale pine]

you now have farily diffrent levels of geared people in mythic even

[cloud rover]

Yeah i know

[keen dome]

What if you get a cool hat that gets more flowers on it every boss you kill on mythic.

[vale pine]

having gear cap out earlier makes it more even field

so more people can participate

if they don't just because of gear, they never cared about mythic in the first place

[cloud rover]

Thats cope imo

[keen dome]

I absolutely agree with the idea of makign Heroic be the gearing cutoff, I think it'd do a lot for the game but It's probably something they don't need to do if they fix areas elsewhere first.

[cloud rover]

People who want to mythic raid

find a way to

thats not an gear issue

[strange chasm]

The cap should double as the weeks go on

[vale pine]

think you missunderstand my point

gear is just a means to an end

[strange chasm]

Getting only 90 crests when you have 8 pieces of gear to upgrade each week is lame

[vale pine]

if you reduce the gear barrire, it in the end means more people can participate

[cloud rover]

i think it will make mythic less appealing and they pprolly will put less effort in it

because people star tot lose interest

[keen dome]

Maybe. I tend to agree with Fuu on this though.

[vale pine]

even if it means, people who ONLY paly mythic for gear

would lose their drive to do it

but this solves a diffrent issue

[cloud rover]

The Mythic gear

is part of the prestige

feeling

[keen dome]

But I think you can achieve the precise same result with a few small tweaks elsewhere.

[vale pine]

you can make a progress system for mythic rewards

[keen dome]

Smoothing out the 623/626 bit. Making Delve 11 give Myth vault. Making M+ 1/3/6, 15 crests per and making it so there's no penalty for failing to time. Small tweaks that'd smooooooth it out massively.

[vale pine]

i don't think gear is a prestige anymore

it was when the game had no transmog

and you could see a mythic gear set in the central hubs

which also had more players, you currently rarely see individuals

[keen dome]

It's incredibly arbitary a lot of the time, too. Like my lack of transmitter. I've killed Ky'veza on N/H every week the raid has been out and I have yet to get it. Like. What preistge is that? What benefit? Just arbitary RNG.

[cloud rover]

Well

but with mythic not giving more loot

[vale pine]

i think maps should drop more frequently

[cloud rover]

will still ahve this problem

[vale pine]

maps give delves a exteneded lifetime

[keen dome]

First four bountiful's of the week or something. I agree though.

[cloud rover]

Like you would still have to be lucky to get transmitter on N/H

[vale pine]

current delve design is too short lived

you either do it for vault slots

or compeltely ignroe it after first week

[cloud rover]

hero Track gear is completely flooded

you get it everywhere

[keen dome]

Absolutely, but my point is that gear isn't fun. it's tedium, it's boring. I'm more interested in cool outfits than this stupid trinket that's completely arbitary if I ever get it.

[cloud rover]

but Myth track is more rar

[vale pine]

not rly

[keen dome]

If I see another Rogue with one, I don't go "Ah, that's rad they did that" i go "Well they got lucky"

[vale pine]

but the gearing system is the problem

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[cloud rover]

You can get hero track from everywhere

[mint swift]

It just feels bad to solo as rogue without ignoring everything

Imo

[vale pine]

these two ranks

requireing mythic crests

[cloud rover]

Yes i know

[vale pine]

makes normal loot = hero loot

[cloud rover]

I just mean

Hero track

can be obtained from everywhere

[keen dome]

Yeah.

[vale pine]

so its not that hero loot is everywhere, normal loot is

[cloud rover]

its nothing special

[keen dome]

Gearing to 619 is very easy.

And then you hit a gigantic wall.

[cloud rover]

Only if you do mythic or 10s

if you dont do that

[half fable]

i like the gearing system

[cloud rover]

you can freely use gilded

[vale pine]

and normal loot tops out at the same point as hero due to the crest problematic

so hero loot lost all its value

[keen dome]

Ye. A good point on that it isn't Hero loot, it's just Normal loot since it caps at 619. And we circle back to the whole issue of Myth being 20 ilevels for no real reason. It doesn't feel good and it stagnates power progression for the majority of the playerbase (I.e., more casual players)

[cloud rover]

I just like seeing my charcter getting stronger and better with killing more mythic bosses

it feels like progression

when mythic doesnt drop gear

it feels like Stagnation

[keen dome]

A good point, yeah. You would end up pretty static if you were cutting edge.

Or, no, not even CE more just proggigng Mythic on the mid-to-upper end.

[cloud rover]

Like what incentive

does a guild not be able to clear mythic have

with no gear

in mythic

[keen dome]

Actually, now I think about it: There's another issue.

Gear is a way to make Mythic more accesisble over time as content becomes easier as you become more powerful.

If you had it cap at Heroic, it'd be flat.

[cloud rover]

Yes

and Splits are still a thing

[keen dome]

Ye

I think it'd be better to solve it through small tweaks to make crests and content rewarding them easier, making myth gear more accessible, etc.

Lift everybody up a bit.

[cloud rover]

Make +12

drop myth track

Because its such a big wall to make 12 work

maybe even 13

[keen dome]

That'd be fascinating and something i'd love to see them try.

[cloud rover]

BUT

[keen dome]

I'd like to see Delve 11 award vault Myth too.

[cloud rover]

you have a cap on Myth track items

in aweek

so no mythic raider HAS TO play 13s

[vale pine]

we already heavily rely on:

• classes getting buffed
• bosses getting nerfed
• the weekly ramp up from the % damage/healing

content already get easier

[keen dome]

Fair point, but I still think Tiramil has a good argument on how it feels to get the gear and power up to fight bosses with that gear.

And you'd lose that, which would have a pretty distinct impact.

[vale pine]

i think thats fine

because what tiramil says is

[cloud rover]

and most importantly

[vale pine]

he wants bosses to get easier

[cloud rover]

Non CE mythic guilds

have no reason to play

[vale pine]

and not play for the challange

which is what gear progression does

[cloud rover]

i want my character to grow

and be better

and not certainly bosses to be easier

[vale pine]

yes, diffrent goals

[keen dome]

Yeah.

[cloud rover]

Like Kyveza

You still have to play good

Gear doesnt change shit their

But you make it 10 seconds shorter

with more gear

[vale pine]

i can tell you from experience

gear makes a lot of diffrence

[cloud rover]

(except you play 4 heal on kyveza)

[vale pine]

gear unlocks easier strategies, allows for more mistakes, shorts fight lenghs

all thinks that make content easier

you can try doing mythic with a 619 group

vs. a 631 group

the diffrence is big

[cloud rover]

Yeah ofc it makes a difference

but on many bosses not a significant

Like on Ovinax

it really has a big impact

Because not playing eggs

makes it a lot easier

[vale pine]

doing 20% more damage

[strange chasm]

Gear makes huge difference on brood

You get to skip eggs

[vale pine]

means you need to play 20% less of the fight

[cloud rover]

But on Silken Court?

[vale pine]

can also often skip mechanics

[cloud rover]

Prolly doesn matter

[strange chasm]

Silken you can kill before the double amp

Possibly skip a charge break

[paper iron]

The différence is mostly on higher hp pool and healing output than dmg when u compare ilvl in raiding to me

[strange chasm]

Gear will always make a huge difference on fights

[cloud rover]

True

[strange chasm]

Doesn't matter what the fight is

[vale pine]

^

[paper iron]

Yea u lust p2 and u Kill on 2nd amp p3

We did that ystday

Its fun

[cloud rover]

Censi qt with based take

[vale pine]

you don't want your char to be better

in isolation to content

the only reason you want your char to get better is to make content easier

else you could scale content difficulty with item level

[cloud rover]

But thats also due to 4,5% buff

thats not only due to gear

[vale pine]

which blizz tired

and people hated it

[cloud rover]

dont forget that

Scaling content with ilvl

why do i farm gear

when it doesnt matter

[vale pine]

for your character to get stronger

it still gets stronger

[cloud rover]

It doesnt

[vale pine]

it does

[paper iron]

If we played it clean we could ve killed ovinax early p3 also. But that just droppibg triple tank + raid bonus dmg buff + healers doing dmg cuz they heal mort efficiently and they dont have to spam heal like they did With 15 less ilvl

[cloud rover]

because everything gets stronger aswell

[vale pine]

i other content types

you would do

[cloud rover]

So there is not difference

[vale pine]

that won't scale

also relative to others that have worse gear

[cloud rover]

What relevant content

is there

except m+ and raid

tell me

[paper iron]

Mog farming

[vale pine]

i mean you basically prove my point

[paper iron]

Stranglethorn fishing

[vale pine]

you want content to be easier

and its a perfectly fine reason to want gear progresison to passively nerf content

[cloud rover]

Why would you need mog, when you are already cute

[paper iron]

Im not cute anymore im à hecking gnome

[keen dome]

But gnome's have great facial hair power

[paper iron]

I hâte blizzard for doing tindral v2

[cloud rover]

Im glad you didnt ask me "would you still love me when i was a gnome"

[vale pine]

i missread

i thought you hack on gnome

[paper iron]

Lol

[vale pine]

(gnome is a DE for linux)

[keen dome]

haha

[vale pine]

would have been a weird flex tho

[paper iron]

Its been so long since i have used linux

Last time Was on Kali and like 10 years ago

[vale pine]

what about mecha gnomes?

[paper iron]

Its worse

[cloud rover]

I would love censi when he was a worm

[paper iron]

No boots no gloves mog

[cloud rover]

but not when he was a mechagnome

[keen dome]

terrible

[vale pine]

think a worm is a improvement over mecha gnomes

[cloud rover]

Ye

[paper iron]

LOL

[keen dome]

mechaworm?

[cloud rover]

We stop right here

[paper iron]

Imma say it. I hate sub cuz it feels like relearning à New spec every 2 tiers. We had s1 s2 sl, s3 s4 sl, pre dust sub, dust sub, and now post dust

Im lost

[keen dome]

mecha sethrakk

[vivid cobalt]

harder content dropping better gear is in the wow constitution

[sullen hare]

Kinda the same boat I'm in. I also don't like the concept of sending a dry symbols

[vale pine]

gear is one of the core pilars of gameplay

its weird because grinding is what excites a lot of people

even if its the most soulless/boring content

because it gives you a slow power prorgession path, you can help your team and yourself to prorgess

[keen dome]

I think they should make the core gameplay around riddles like the anniversary

then I can become a CE raider

[twilit phoenix]

Bruh I only send the wettest symbols

[vivid cobalt]

if you really boil it down mmorpg is really just about the grind and the community

[vale pine]

i forgot when the 20 year stream is

[spark tusk]

I think the only cutting edge I have is Emerald Nightmare lmao

because I stopped playing when my guild pushed ahead into consistently clearing CE

[sullen hare]

I have a couple. My guild's sylvanas kill was literal days before it went away

[keen dome]

I have 0, haha

[twilit phoenix]

0 CE chad reporting in

[keen dome]

My effort in raiding extends to Week 1/2 AotC and no further, haha

[keen dome]

Yeah same, I thought it was this week..

[vale pine]

13 nov

[keen dome]

Aha

[vale pine]

Join us 13 November at 18:00 GMT for a special presentation celebrating 30 years of Warcraft and a look ahead at what’s next.

thanks mr. google

[keen dome]

🫡

[hazy breach]

Just dont go gnome

Especially if you have 2 fury warriors it should be absolutely no issues killing the tombs on the 3rd cast, but even with 1 fury and 1 sub it went completely fine for us

[lucid jackal]

Echoing that sentiment

1 fury that isn't a noob and it's very easy to break 3rd srt

[paper iron]

I agree With u guys but to be real, even With à fury war it s tough for us :x

[jolly briar]

bit of feedback on the sim, you cant use mandate in stealth

(this will never be a problem in real gameplay as you'd always use transmitter, but a notable bug )

[twilit phoenix]

Sim precasts potion?

[vale pine]

thats just the trigger

it collects it later

oh wait queens mandate, ye probably should not be in stealth

[lilac stag]

i thought you added the exception to the apl

maybe not?

[jolly briar]

yeh I don't have transmitter yet. started playing sub 3 days ago

[vale pine]

think it made no diffrence in output

[hazy breach]

Theres effectively no difference between shadowstrike > mandate and mandate>shadowstrike in sims, ingame there is a miniscule difference of 1 strike vs 1 backstab but ye technically should be after the strike

[shadow lance]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[untold bone]

!trinkets

[vale pine]

!sheet has sims

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

but its basically

you want transmitter

[alpine wraith]

also someone told me agi was a good stat

[vale pine]

and as 2nd a passive option or queens

[alpine wraith]

dont think if i want to believe it

[lucid jackal]

Fuu can u add my weakaura package to sub command as well

[vale pine]

sure

[left ledge]

Does nerubar finery have a catch up

I may or may not have the buff

[pliant topaz]

not sure about catchup but its warbound u can transfer all of them from your alts to main

[alpine wraith]

you get several per boss

[spark tusk]

Is the overall gain/week capped per warband?

[alpine wraith]

if not catched up

[spark tusk]

yeah I've gotten multiple from bosses

[pliant topaz]

I think so

[alpine wraith]

someone i know got 4 per boss

[spark tusk]

before

[alpine wraith]

instead of one

[spark tusk]

I got 2 per boss last night

[left ledge]

Ok

So I can just do lfr or some shit

For catch up

Tyty

[shy scarab]

is the builds on wowhead wrong? it says if u play deathstalker its with shuriken tornado and if u choose trickster its with shuriken tornado @vale pine 😄

[vale pine]

let me check

[void hound]

how come trickster overtook deathstalker in ST

[vale pine]

think it uses the wrong talent hash

let me quick update

[shy scarab]

Cheers love

[scarlet heath]

I heard about Trickster being bugged and splashing only 40% instead of 50% with Nimble Flurry

that still a thing?

[alpine wraith]

no was only a bug on dummies

on instanced content it works correctly

[scarlet heath]

oh ok, nice

[vale pine]

fixed now

[vale pine]

it didn't, but deathstalker still assumes the mark bug to be not present

both are about on par on single target

but trickster plays more nicely

[void hound]

i see

[tulip badger]

Do we play m+ like in ST? SoD+SD when tech is up?

[vale pine]

yes

but you use storm

and you likely won't need to use symbols without dance

[tulip badger]

Storm also in SD?

[vale pine]

no

[tulip badger]

Okk, thx!!

[lunar bluff]

does sec tec want to be first or 2nd finisher after symbols

[vale pine]

first or second

usually first

[lunar bluff]

first seems better, more cdr then given back to sec tec

ive been trying to do that more

see if feels better

[strange chasm]

Question are we waiting then to send shadow dance till sectech can be the first finisher

[lunar bluff]

ive found myself in that exact spot too

[spark tusk]

Not necessarily

I've been sendingdance when I have like 9-10 sec left on sectec

so my first eviscerate in dance brings my sectec to me

[strange chasm]

Cause I just send dance right away and normally the 2nd dance in opener sectech is my 2nd or 3rd finisher

[spark tusk]

I think to overlap blades during your burst that you just 2nd dance right away

[alpine wraith]

usually you want to send sec tech first

because sometimes you get coup after

[lunar bluff]

this is what ive been doing, but my previous question is kinda asking is this wrong?

[alpine wraith]

not wrong per se

just can be less dmg

[lucid jackal]

I feel like u need improved shadow technique with the first dance

Thoughts?

[pliant topaz]

not really

[alpine wraith]

nah

[hazy breach]

When blades aint up yeah it can be a bit rough at the end of your dance

[pliant topaz]

i havent had that problem so far, atleast with wft

[jaunty heath]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[round latch]

Irrelevant and i dont wanna flex or anything but i just did 1.36mil Gold with the new secret goldmaking tech 🐌

[alpine wraith]

nice

[left ledge]

Same bro (I don’t know how to make gold)

[round latch]

i think i kinda hit the AH hard on this one 😂

[left ledge]

I just boost for gold

[wind canopy]

#wow-general

[fair stump]

... what?

[spark tusk]

I don't know about any new methods / tech

I'm just vibing with my normal method made ~2m this reset

[fair stump]

what are you guys talking about

[spark tusk]

You're right.

[spark tusk]

I have no idea. I'm just in my lane, moisturized, vibing.

SAP

[round latch]

?

[round latch]

ye sorry,i was about to flex about it but fine

ill take it elsewhere

[spark tusk]

I've been playing it wayyy too loose with irrelevant profession talk in spec channels, I'm guilty of this.

[swift tinsel]

this spec is so much fun now, omg

[keen dome]

Hell yeah it is

Sub stronk

You could say we're.. sublime.

[swift tinsel]

my ingra damage in a pug had the 2.5k disc PI'ing my cds lol

having nuclear prio damage in cooldowns feels amazing

[tidal python]

Question: Do we still cast backstab during dance to stack danse macabre?

[swift tinsel]

nah

[vale pine]

we stopped doing so in TWW

[sinful sluice]

how do they tp into boss here?

[vale pine]

coup de grace

i assume

[swift tinsel]

I think they mean their dk and druid

[sinful sluice]

like druid and DK also tps

[hazy breach]

No, they all just get TPed to the boss

[sinful sluice]

how come?

is that just how it works

[wind canopy]

Just more memeing wow-general outside of OT

[hazy breach]

Theyre outside the arena so the buff kinda just TPs them in

[sinful sluice]

ohh

[hazy breach]

No real reason besides thats how that boss works

[sinful sluice]

but seriously mdi players are so creative

the rogue tank tactics haha

was rly fun to watch

[fair stump]

That was insane

[sinful sluice]

with stealth they just runs to 3rd mini boss and tank with evasion+cheat death

[fair stump]

The pulls they make is also insane

[sinful sluice]

assasinate 3rd boss and just rejoin in the middle

yeah

meanwhile im struggling on +12

[leaden prairie]

tbf people were doing that already in leveling dungeons

[warm depot]

thats a sick strat

[dawn robin]

Is there a bug with the add on last boss of NW? When I reach it while playing Sub, it will often start to evade- I can do damage but can't interrupt or stun it

[tawdry kiln]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[timid jolt]

Hey friends new to the noticing some take tornado and some don’t and wondering what is the best use for it

[uncut bloom]

Cancel tricks before that boss, it’ll bug out if your trickster

[dawn robin]

ahhhhh

[sonic depot]

i have a weird question but i know you can get crest discount on rings if you have a crafted ring and recraft it. does that work with daggers aswell?

[vale pine]

it was a bug that worked on both

unsure if it still does

[sonic depot]

guess ill find out (pls no ban)

[surreal seal]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[desert panther]

Trying out sub

why do we go with Trickster for ST over Deathstalker?

[cloud rover]

I mean

[cloud rover]

You can jsut shroud

the pack

before boss

[hazy breach]

Because they do roughly the same damage and Trickster doesnt feel ass to play

[vale pine]

both are about on par in damage, and trickster plays nicer

[hazy breach]

And if theres any cleave whatsoever its better

[desert panther]

Gonna try Sub next raid. does any1 have screenshots of how their stats are looking?

[sinful sluice]

sub m+ feels so much nicer compared to before

[vale pine]

stack vers and mastery and you are good

[desert panther]

like are items like this gonna fuck me.

[hazy breach]

Its fine

[desert panther]

cus agi over secondary stats always right

[hazy breach]

Secondary stats arent nearly as important as people think

[left ledge]

They’re everything to me

I’m definitely picking 100 vers over 100 ilvls

[cloud rover]

based

[teal night]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal escarp]

how many versatility?

🖐️

[desert panther]

Next question

what would be ur preferred trinket combo

[vale pine]

transmitter + x

[sinful sluice]

wtf

[vale pine]

egg probably best

from what i see there

[sinful sluice]

how did you get 3 639 trinkets

💀

[desert panther]

Vault was nice to me for 3 weeks

then its been rubbish

[sinful sluice]

i got 12 tokens from vault

......................

[desert panther]

oh ive had head and bracers with socket from vault also and those trinkets

rest been shite

Macro transmitter to flag?

[sinful sluice]

thats what i do at least

[tawdry kiln]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sonic depot]

so it did work which is very nice but also bug exploiting i guess??

[green niche]

Hi subs. I've wanted to play sub since tbc. But I made assa rogue as my first character ever. Now all these years later... Should I try sub? Is it fun?!

[alpine wraith]

i find it kinda fun

[golden totem]

Very much fun

[fiery fog]

how are you guys managing the part with potion, trinket, etc.? at least with my keybindings im close to breaking my fingers xd

[pliant arrow]

macro

[alpine wraith]

we usually use transmitter earlier

[fiery fog]

good thing i dont have a transmitter

felt like playing sub rather than sin on silken but still rocking my 619 wrathstone on them lmao

[desert panther]

Wrathstone not bad tho

[fiery fog]

it still sims better than any other trinket for me on hero track

[desert panther]

Big mainstat

[fiery fog]

and i havent been fortunate enough for a trinket in my vault

[desert panther]

And no shitty mini game

[hazy breach]

It gives roughly the same amount of stats as transmitter does but it effectively has a 3 minute cd, it def aint fantastic

The unfortunate reality is that theres really no other on-use trinket besides transmitter thats good for sub besides very niche scenarios with odd timers

[wind canopy]

Is it bad for sub if there isn't a 1.5min trinket with stats for a season?

[hazy breach]

Probably ye

[sacred cedar]

Do we still have the flask overrides listed anywhere?

[hazy breach]

Unless we lean harder into sustained stuff with deathstalker instead of bursty trickster due to some new tier sets

[wind canopy]

Yeah

[sacred cedar]

Cant remember where exactly it was in here

[alpine wraith]

wrathstone is 2m

so it kinda has the problem skardyn has

[wind canopy]

I guess that's kinda the case with other 1.5 minute specs too, so surely there's gonna 1.5 min trinket each season...

Surely

[alpine wraith]

they are all strengh or int

as always

[wind canopy]

[fiery fog]

[alpine wraith]

maybe dependin on the m+ thing

or we get a cool spymaster esque trink

[fiery fog]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[topaz raptor]

cool spymaster trinket

= you suck ass until you get this item

[sacred cedar]

fuu are you alive rn?

[topaz raptor]

hunter applies to my ruby life pools -> check armory -> no bow? -> decline

[alpine wraith]

fuu went to sleep

[sacred cedar]

why fuu asleep when I need him

[hazy breach]

Its in the #tc-research channel somewhere

[sacred cedar]

hmmmmm

[hazy breach]

But it is really just writing the names of them

[sacred cedar]

Fuck im sure I just scoured it, lets try again

[topaz raptor]

consume compare? should be in the pins

[hazy breach]

(and it doesnt really matter because they sim roughly the same anyway)

[sacred cedar]

oh ffs, the pin was scrolled down 1 post

so it looked like the 2nd pin was the 1st

[sacred cedar]

gunna go hang myself now

[topaz raptor]

it does all consumables

[fiery fog]

btw is it just symbols on cd and use dance with it if possible?

[sacred cedar]

For anyone else looking/wondering - it's the top pin in #tc-research

[alpine wraith]

no we dont symbols on cd really

[sacred cedar]

god fuu is so dope

and helpful

[fiery fog]

was thinking that because of this part on the wowhead guide

[narrow shadow]

If you notice Sepsis no longer exists

So it's outdated

[left ledge]

@hazy breach sorry if this has been discussed before but what is causing a cp delay right now

it feels like when coup is up

or something like when its about to come up

you see kind of like the RS bug

its after coup

[alpine wraith]

coup can proc shadowcraft until the last hit

so even if you begin with like 4 if it gets to 7 it refreshes

[left ledge]

yeah its

kinda fucking annoying

[fiery fog]

is there any current guide i can check on what to do as sub?

[alpine wraith]

yea the wowhead one has things updated i also did one in yt but it is only an overview for now

there are others too

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Oxi

[fiery fog]

these 3 seem to be outdated at times since im reading stuff about sepsis or dust even at times, so im not sure what is up to date and what not

[thick temple]

This video I found recently goes over the new playstyle and what was removed/added

https://youtu.be/OKmBgvrgmJs?si=X4OeoQMd0vwRyNIE

Also covers rotation ofc

[ornate quest]

Hello, I am generally new to wow and am just starting to raid, I have a few macro's set up and would like someone who knows more to check them.

[spark tusk]

What is the goal of your macros? We only have a couple of macros that are DPS focused

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[spark tusk]

you can share them here for feedback directly

Someone who knows will be able to look

[ornate quest]

alright

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Symbols of Death
/cast shadow strike
/use 13
/use 14
/cast shadow dance

I have the secret technique, cold blood one

#showtooltip
/cast shadow blades
/cast flagellation

[wind canopy]

Granted, Shadow Strike doesn't work with Shadow Dance as a macro atm, but technically, you'd want to Dance then Strike.

[wind canopy]

And don't do this.

[ornate quest]

strike doesn't work with dance?

[spark tusk]

Yeah Dance -> Strike sounds like it should work

but it doesn't

you can try it

the spell can't queue when you can't cast it

If you spam the button it could work, but you def don't want to spam a macro with symbols in it

You want symbols and dance separated from each other, they're different buttons to press at different times

[wind canopy]

All this

[ornate quest]

what would I use with symbols of death or would it be better to not have a symbols macro?

[spark tusk]

I explained it earlier for how to use

#subtlety message

And yeh, no macro for it imo