assuming liquid strat
#subtlety
near rivet
worldly pagoda
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
slate nest
seems like in the kill the rogue was red
sly shore
doesn't matter
slate nest
but it probably doesn't matter yeah
near rivet
with dust it did matter, yes?
shy ermine
Red has to stand off the boss on a vulnerable phase in p3 to bait a frontal with our Strat
near rivet
i could swear that someone said that we are losing 2 cd sets on amps on one color and 1 cd set on other
sly shore
Neither group moves off boss during a damage amp, idk where you heard that
blue just makes space so red can move
then no one has to be sad and moves off boss on that caster frontal
near rivet
Neither group moves off boss during a damage amp, idk where you heard that
somewhere on this channel, but its w/e
near rivet
standing in where prog is early I1 so far, so it looks like team color doesnt matter that much
haughty mural
!transmitter
wicked joltBOT
The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png
gritty knot
Wait, can u just press symbols 3 times in a row and have the DMG buff stacked 3 times? I never tried that yet but I just read that here in the chat 😂 is that true? Wouldn't that be insane for example like at first boss Mists of Tirna as soon as u do 200% more DMG?
shy ermine
Supercharger stacks, symbols itself doesn’t
You can use it again inside pandemic 3s but any earlier and you lose value
spice matrix
gritty knot
Ye idk, someone here in Discord wrote it and I am at work rn. I thought maybe it's a bug or idk 🤷
snow berry
Does anyone know of any regular sub streamers or video makers for keys/raid?
snow berry
Yer tried but all seemed old ish
lilac stag
filter by date
we're the least popular spec on the 2nd to last popular class. video content isn't exactly a money maker
cloud rover
remote shuttle
Does anyone know of any regular sub streamers or video makers for keys/raid?
I stream also SUB (daily from 18:00 ITA) https://m.twitch.tv/nevial0n
On monday and wed guild raid and M+ for the rest of time (2613.io running 10+ and 11+ atm)
It says italian language but we talk spaghettinglish....
Usually with 2 to 5 viewers 😂 streaming for my vod mostly 🤣
noble patio
Hmm.. Bloodmallet says the Gear Launcher is incredibly broken
I find these rankings really sus
hazy breach
The sub sims on bloodmallet is simming without any talents
cloud rover
hazy breach
Ill fix it
merry agate
I find these rankings really sus
warm marlin
interesting comp u got there
sly shore
ya they either need to remove
or buff the cdr
or just make dance 3 charges to match sod
since we only use it with sod anywya
then they add this spell right
that launches you in the air
thick field
confused with the written guide - a few places say play trickster in raid all the time, some say deathstalker has more throughput.. what are we doing? Looking at wclogs it seems pretty split tbh
sly shore
if you're with me so far
and then you fly back down and do a huge eviscerate
deathstalker does more single target
trickster does more cleave and aoe
strange chasm
Launches you so high up you swap to sin mid air
tepid trellis
vale pine
https://tenor.com/view/apt-blackpink-rose-apt-rose-mak-rose-ros%C3%A9-gif-174409...
is it this song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekr2nIex040
tepid trellis
yes
vale pine
didn't stuck in my brain after listening, i am immune 
tepid trellis
just wait
it will
you will wake up in the middle of the night going
APAR APAR PARTU APAR APAR PARTU
vale pine
haughty mural
that launches you in the air
slate flint
Did they change the way target macros work in the patch? Old tricks macro is working like 20% of the time now and can't figure out whats up? Does this look wrong?
/cast [target="tankname"] Tricks of the Trade
hazy breach
Did they change the way target macros work in the patch? Old tricks macro is wo...
!tricks
wicked joltBOT
Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
I'd recommend using this WA/macro combo. It will auto target your tank all the time
obsidian ember
confused with the written guide - a few places say play trickster in raid all th...
I noticed that too and I think the text may be just out of date.
If you see the M+ build, it says Trickster plays without Tornado, and takes inevitability instead; while on the build both of them have Inevitability and Trickster has Tornado
lilac stag
all the time
weary kite
I'd recommend using this WA/macro combo. It will auto target your tank all the t...
how does it work? do you just press it and it works on tank?
slate flint
word thanks, didnt realize that was an option now lmao
hazy breach
how does it work? do you just press it and it works on tank?
Yes
weary kite
wtf. ok. thanks man
slate flint
saves me a few r clicks and copy tank names eh
lilac stag
More than 12 of us in here (for now) and every day someone’s brain melts. 
hazy breach
And theres a custom option section if you want to specify somebody that either aint a tank or a specific tank in raid
lilac stag
our ele shaman is my favorite custom target.
obsidian ember
More than 12 of us in here (for now) and every day someone’s brain melts. <:kekd...
Every single sub player decided to meet up
thick field
I noticed that too and I think the text may be just out of date.
If you see the...
Yeah exactly, in general just seems to be a lot of little conflicts. just coming back to sub after years away and its all new so i'm trying to figure it all out again
solemn lance
looks like sub is pretty neck and neck with sin in raid with the exception of the obvious on brood
I full swapped to sin, but now Im thinking I may want to go back to sub for raid
haughty mural
Every single sub player decided to meet up
ASSEMBLE
lilac stag
Supercharger
hoary sun
Yeah it can double it
narrow shadow
vestal escarp
assa cant do that
tepid trellis
aug screenshots
vivid cobalt
Assa def still higher in m+ but sub feels much more competitive now and if bosses are ever an issue for your group sub could be the better option
vestal escarp
it's for the extra troll
tepid trellis
cmon guys
narrow shadow
The issue is that assa still has the 6 second AoE silence
narrow shadow
I find that utility too good
slate marlin
does the raider dummy in zuldazar increase dps or is that one accurate¿
lilac stag
Raccoon wants to know why you’re not hitting 3 milli
tepid trellis
Raccoon wants to know why you’re not hitting 3 milli
ong
warm depot
cant believe i missed apt posting
tepid trellis
cant believe i missed apt posting
lilac stag
tepid trellis
that song has been stuck in my head ever since it was released
warm depot
its so damn catchy
tepid trellis
i cant escape it
warm depot
they banned it in korea during exam season lol
granite hinge
how's sub going compared to sin in m+ rn?
sly shore
considering assa is possibly the strongest melee in keys rn
lilac stag
how's sub going compared to sin in m+ rn?
Enhancement >= Assa > Sub. gameplay sub kills assa
lilac stag
but are you on your way?
warm depot
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah im on my way
tepid trellis
i had to read that like 4 times to realise what song it was xD
alpine wraith
are you ok
lilac stag
warm depot
we collectively have brainworms
tepid trellis
for some reason d4 just had my brain going in circles for a lil bit
lilac stag
we collectively have brainworms
Welcome to 
warm depot
tough knot
Enhancement >= Assa > Sub. gameplay sub kills assa
Did sub change significantly? Gameplay for sub in m+ was always just shuriken finish and repeat until you die of boredom
haughty mural
hazy breach
Did sub change significantly? Gameplay for sub in m+ was always just shuriken fi...
Ye just like outlaw only presses blade flurry
tough knot
What's your filler finisher?
tough knot
Ye just like outlaw only presses blade flurry
Outlaw just does it's single target rotation all the time
lilac stag
evis or rupture
alpine wraith
sub does too apart from putting ruptures after dancing
tough knot
Oh, so no more BP spam, sounds nice
hazy breach
Idk its just weird to me people say sub was/is just bp spam.
Like ye if you ignore the other 12 buttons youre pressing
lilac stag
Idk its just weird to me people say sub was/is just bp spam.
Assa just mutilate envenom spam.
tough knot
Yeah, you pressed other buttons but not a lot, at least in dungeons
tough knot
You did a few ruptures and you had dance
But the gameplay in between dances wasn't that engaging
lilac stag
between dances it’s meant to be maintenance.
tough knot
Assa right now in single target is really boribg
I understand that
Doesn't make it engaging though
pliant topaz
Assa just mutilate envenom spam. <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
Let’s pretend everything in the game isn’t builder finisher
lilac stag
a cd spec is engaging in cds and not when out of them. Weird.
tough knot
Let’s pretend everything in the game isn’t builder finisher
Outlaw was just finisher for a day
pliant topaz
with a few exetra steps
tough knot
No no, just finisher, no builder, for one day last week
lilac stag
have fun exploiting ?
pliant topaz
Im aware of the bug abuse yea
regardless, I find sin a bit boring in both aoe and ST.
I find sub engaging in both aoe and ST
and I despise outlaw in both aoe and ST.
lilac stag
assa just floods you with energy and you can ignore it. Numbers go brrrrr.
sub at least feels rewarding for getting your cds ready for each 90 sec go
tough knot
Last I played sub was right after the rework on DF, the spec felt like complete shit in between dances, so slow
Is that better now?
lilac stag
honestly just try the spec on dummies. Fun will always be subjective.
You can look for everything wrong or try it and see what you may actually enjoy.
Dmg is more than competitive.
tough knot
Too much work, I trust hacha on this
lilac stag
yeah hitting that spec swap button is so much work
tough knot
I usually prefer more uptime specs anyway
I need to grab a build, my weak auras are probably outdated, I changed how I do keybinds since I last played it
So not just hitting swap spec
lilac stag
got it. 5 mins. 
tough knot
I take a while to make my weakauras
Probably around 30-60 min on that, depending on what needs to be coded
lilac stag
you dont need to rewrite a UI to test how the spec plays in general to your liking. fix your ui if you vibe with it
if you hate it you've wasted nothing
golden totem
!wa
tough knot
I just trust hacha on this one, he says it's still slow in between dances and I really dislike that
No need to spend time testing
alpine wraith
yea first 1:30 mins fly quite fast because we have some extra SoD power from talents
but after that it becomes measured again
tepid trellis
50apm in p1 ansurek
its vibes
lil bit lower cuz uknow defensives and what not
but you get the point
and im basically afk for 1min cuz i need to save cds for the shield
so in reality its gonna be a bit higher
round latch
50apm in p1 ansurek
compared to previous patch,how do u like sub now
is it better/worse?
tepid trellis
better
sly shore
three charges of SoD just is not intuitive to me
as well as
it being completely unfriendly to new players
hazy breach
They didnt really make it more intuitive or easy
sly shore
absolute nightmare
hazy breach
But it does feel better
pliant topaz
its alot more interesting to play though
I prefer this freedom to move cds over dust
its healthier to move dance/sod arund
rather than flag/blades
round latch
i like it,more than sin currently
alpine wraith
i always had the idea of more charges of SoD being good
for the health of the spec problem is i kinda wanted dust too but this is not horrible either
pliant topaz
it does have its own problems but im a fan so far
vale pine
supercharger is just rly good, it is the main reason it feels better
lilac stag
it being completely unfriendly to new players
It’s more friendly than dust was. New players can adjust talents to make more straight forward.
round latch
yup its a steampack(for the starcraft lovers)
round latch
i think rotten is also very good now
alpine wraith
i do like supercharger making us able to do some cool things like old anticipation
lilac stag
Assa hit any button. Do dmg
alpine wraith
being able to get 2 or 4 chargers if you know some big lame rp is coming
like CoT
or dawnbreaker or grim batol
round latch
u can like push ur sectech cdr back faster and back-to-back them
sly shore
supercharger mega stacking flag is very good I will say
round latch
its alot of dmg compressed
swift merlin
Rando question but how do you guys find good guilds to join?
sly shore
wowprogress, raiderio, warcraftlogs
alpine wraith
painfully
round latch
wowprogress
swift merlin
Ok ty
round latch
u r welcome fam
alpine wraith
what fuu is saying is just crit mandate all the time man
vale pine
or, not play mandate
alpine wraith
yea ovi nax M now sims highest for me
finally we scale better with actual stats
i also had it on vault but i chose socket instead
likely no one wants it and i can get it from boss eventually
pliant topaz
Crit does become a bit more useful in aoe situations
alpine wraith
so not that much in the grand scheme
i do like mandate for m+ to delete some fools and get resets
only getting 1 or 2 resets every so often should be better than contract
pliant topaz
I lowkey think transmitter + skardyns iss better for keys idk
specially if you have the preplanned route with efficient pulls
spark tusk
Collect or stand in circle
pliant topaz
jump 3 times
vale pine
orb is the worse
sly shore
orb is the worst for me too
vestal escarp
jump cringest
sly shore
that mf is invisible sometimes
sacred yarrow
If you go into Shadow Dance and you do not have 4 stacks of Escalating Blade or “Fazed” up you wanna use Secret Technique as the first finisher inside of Shadow Dance instead of 2nd.
If I go into SD with <4 EB but fazed is up, is ST still used as first finisher?
the or in the sentence is confusing me, sorry
pliant topaz
problem with orb is its hitbox is too tiny
strange chasm
I kinda dislike the jump a lot now
Me when I get jump 3 times on first boss of dawn and accidentally jump into the beam
alpine wraith
i have developed special tech for the orb
just moving face 40 to 60 degrees
so it spawns in a visible place
instead of the anus of the boss and 40 pets/players
pliant topaz
yep. or me on my dh and i double jump and wanna just double jump off the ship instead
vale pine
> If you go into Shadow Dance and you do not have 4 stacks of Escalating Blade o...
you just secret first gcd always
strange chasm
!fuu
bronze hatch
For 4pc right
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
bronze hatch
I’m OK with this
I kind of got introduced during invigorating shadow dust
This feels much nicer than what I got used to
alpine wraith
also if you have coup ready you also get charger on both
pliant topaz
For 4pc right
we havent tested with/witohut 4pc to know its impact but the current understanding is to further push forward coup
the main thing with trickster is to cycle through coups as muc as u can
pliant topaz
so u use sectech asap to get more UB hits, more coups, more cdr, more flawless stacks, and then the cdr gives u sectech again, so u can push forward the cycle
sacred yarrow
you just secret first gcd always
But this is then written in the wowhead guide
The ideal use of the cooldown is usually the second finisher during Shadow Dance. This is usually the point where generating more Danse Macabre stacks does not increase your overall output.
I'm just trying to know when its best 
fallow nimbus
As gnom the orb hitbox is very wierd, pls nerf queen roots
bronze hatch
Strikes me a little odd to use your mega finisher as your first move, but that makes a lot of sense
alpine wraith
yea might want to change that one unless
pliant topaz
you would use it 2nd finisher as eathstalker (when not in blades/flag)
bronze hatch
But this is then written in the wowhead guide
> The ideal use of the cooldown i...
I read this as, try to get at least one finisher before you secret technique, except when you’re opening all cds?
I’m noticing a DPS drop off if I rupture early
pliant topaz
the reason u use it as first finisher as deathstalker in flag/blades is becaue blades/transmitter duration is too short, and u want to ensure you can fit 2 dances in blades and each dance will include a sectech
bronze hatch
I tried sin and it’s ok but there’s just something about popping your cds and just exploding that draws me to sub
sacred yarrow
Assuming 6-7 Combo Points:
No SD and have 4 stacks EB+Fazed -> BP
No SD and have <3 stacks EB -> Evis
Have SD and 4 stacks EB+Fazed -> Evis
Have SD and <3 stacks EB but have Fazed -> ST?
Have SD and 4 stacks EB but no Fazed -> ST?
just wondering because the blackpowder for coup makes sense but SD without EB and/or Fazed is making me confused.
I understand these are just optimizations but I've been stuck with the english for a while, maybe on a dummy it better understandable?
pliant topaz
Assuming 6-7 Combo Points:
No SD and have 4 stacks EB+Fazed -> BP
No SD and have...
u dont bp anymore. because of the more dynamic nature of sod usage based on sectechs and the coup extra cp bug fixes, often when you get coup, u can use it, and the flawless form stacks would carry into your dance and sectech
and thats good enough
sacred yarrow
now that is way easier to manage, yes!
alpine wraith
you would only BP if it is to get stratetegic value
like breaking a shield better or executing a mob that will spawn or whatever
but it wont be a general dps win to hold coup rn
sacred yarrow
so basically just ensure fazed is up for coup then send an evis and send ST always first anyways, EB/Fazed notwithstanding.
bronze hatch
now that is way easier to manage, yes!
It’s almost brain dead 😂 I love how easy sub is right now. I struggled a lot with saving cds for the right moment with IS
sacred yarrow
thank you for helping with the english deconstruction 🫡
clever delta
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
assuming full uptime, is there a ballpark number for how much cdr you get off of dance while in dance during flag/blades?
bright sundial
sry for the question but is sub weak rn havent seen any subs really is it their dmg or just new stuff from 11.0.5?
pliant topaz
subs fine. just not the best rogue spec so it sees less play
bright sundial
welll
vale pine
sry for the question but is sub weak rn havent seen any subs really is it their ...
11.0.5 did buff the spec and added a amazing new talent
it still lacks behind the strong tuned classes in aoe
bright sundial
i like the playstyle and ST is my fav button to press
vale pine
but holds up well else
it isn't played because assassiantion is tuned a lot stronger for a while now (entirety of tww)
it is a bit a design problem where specs lack enough unique niches to seperate
so tuning can quickly make one dominant everywhere, assassiantion has some extra benefits too which makes it even more dominant when favorable tuned
but if you like subtlety, its rly good
so can absolutely play it
desert panther
first m+ playing sub
vale pine
nicu
desert panther
not good not bad
swift merlin
Prot Pala 
desert panther
i was the only1 playing my main
raw moss
thing is, iron wire is giga in many dungeons xd
desert panther
they called me terrorist for playing sub
vale pine
Prot Pala <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
quite good
vale pine
thing is, iron wire is giga in many dungeons xd
i am still surprised scent of blood and iron wire survived so long
but both are rly good
hazy breach
thing is, iron wire is giga in many dungeons xd
It is, but sub is also signficantly more tanky than assa
lilac stag
i am still surprised scent of blood and iron wire survived so long
early N.A. maintenance to nerf assa
swift merlin
I would've bet money last week Assa was gonna see a nerf
hazy breach
It did, but its mostly a token nerf
lilac stag
I think they wanted to see what bug fixes did
hazy breach
Wouldnt surprise me if theres another one in the following tuning set
Well ye the bugfixes removed more damage than the nerf does 
vale pine
bugfix was quite big ye
lilac stag
still can’t see any redux in their dps
vale pine
sub also got a bit of dps from bugfixes
lilac stag
Not in keys at least.
swift merlin
Am I the only one that liked the ER minigame 😬
lilac stag
my dreams of no rupture spread living life to the fullest.
feral tundra
leveling an alt rogue planning to play only sub on that, i’m so clueless in this spec
vale pine
cdr bugfixes also make it less bad
feral tundra
don’t know rotations or anything lol
lilac stag
Am I the only one that liked the ER minigame 😬
vale pine
leveling an alt rogue planning to play only sub on that, i’m so clueless in this...
its cooldown stacking
swift merlin
😭 It was kinda fun idk
lilac stag
Not fun at all on sub
feral tundra
its cooldown stacking
what does that mean
feral tundra
same as sin ST?
lilac stag
Hahaha
vale pine
what does that mean
it means
feral tundra
oh yeah haven’t even unlocked flag yet
vale pine
symbols, dance, blades
lilac stag
assa has like 1.5 CDs. Sub has 5
vale pine
and you align everything to create a big burst sequence
feral tundra
assa has like 1.5 CDs. Sub has 5
that’s what i mean, this is confusing
lilac stag
it gets less confusing
feral tundra
but it’s so bursty
uneven scarab
Once you realize the purpose of the cd’s its really not confusing
feral tundra
i like it
feral tundra
i feel like i’m playing for the enemy team when running dungeons as i level
that’s how bad i am rn
feral tundra
it’s weird not spreading garrote and rupture everywhere
lilac stag
outlaw probably easier in dungeons while leveling.
uneven scarab
Yeah prob
swift merlin
Do you have nimble flurry unlocked
feral tundra
outlaw probably easier in dungeons while leveling.
yeh i’m trying to get the hang of sub as i go
uneven scarab
Do you have nimble flurry unlocked
If he’s still leveling no
lilac stag
subs kit sucks
And you need everything
otherwise. 💩
you’ll hit a dry spell where your dps talents are like a .5% upgrade. 
feral tundra
yikes
lilac stag
but when you can slap em all together it works
stiff remnant
is the wowhead opener rotation accurate for this patch?
mighty delta
when in m+ with tornado would opener look like this?: strike-> Evis -> storm -> flag -> rupture -> Tornado -> Dance + symbols -> Sectech -> Blades -> powder -> powder -etc.
and are we using tornado on cd?
lilac stag
wait nvm before first evisc
Yeah
vale pine
you don't use tornado in the opener
tornado is a "filler" spell
you either use it to spread rupture
lilac stag
Don’t use tornado at all.
swift tinsel
I actually dropped nado for veil bc it sims 1.7% better st vs .2% worse aoe
mighty delta
ah ok i was using it like last szn
vale pine
can on higher targets use it with symbols for "burst"
mighty delta
when we used to do it in opener
swift tinsel
and I just don't like the button in general lol
mighty delta
can someone link the m+ build that doesnt take tornado?
swift tinsel
you just move the point from nado to veiltouched
vale pine
can someone link the m+ build that doesnt take tornado?
moment
CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM2mBAAAAAgZZMWmGzYmxMGjZYmZmhxsNLGjttZmxMzMGMWmlBAAAgZwAYMbGGYgZRL0iNYA```
lilac stag
I would swap these
swift tinsel
I mostly pug and don't get as much uptime bc chainpulling tanks
mighty delta
yea i was doing sin in keys but rn im feeling pretty good on sub
lilac stag
The finisher heal is better imo
swift tinsel
but it does feel quite nice when you get it
mighty delta
not the same dmg but not bad
stiff remnant
wait can yall clarify if we use black powder on regular 5mob pulls or just nimble flurry
lilac stag
You use BP at 18 mobs
uneven scarab
Need like 12 mobs for bp to be worth
lilac stag
Just press evic
uneven scarab
I was close
stiff remnant
yeah
uneven scarab
yeah evis way better
stiff remnant
ty
lilac stag
Need like 12 mobs for bp to be worth
I just pulled a random mdi number out my ass
it’s something ridiculous
uneven scarab
I just pulled a random mdi number out my ass
It is a big target count for sure i know its around there
vale pine
I mostly pug and don't get as much uptime bc chainpulling tanks
its still good usually
weaponmaster isn't that good
swift tinsel
I'll have to look at uptime when I run keys this week but it was feeling like I was only getting it for one in maybe four or five pulls. def not opposed to running it if its still better even with that
thick field
are warcraft logs inflated from the bug earlier this patch? sub at the 95th percentile and higher looks really good in logs, but unsure if thats just skewed by bug abusers
hazy breach
Its inflated yes, theyve said theyre gonna removed the bugged logs bug 
thick field
where do you feel it really sits then in raid? middle of the pack?
thick field
if you see a log with the bug
Will do
hazy breach
Still pretty good. The bug didnt inflate nearly as much on sub as on outlaw
lilac stag
where do you feel it really sits then in raid? middle of the pack?
Still best rogue spec for certain fights (the ones that matter)
hazy breach
And since were mostly playing trickster, which was unable to bug abuse (you could only do it on deathstalker)
Its not that skewed
lilac stag
logs gonna be all over as it was a decent gameplay change for the spec
thick field
okay gotcha. am i hindering myself by only playing trickster on all fights right now? in wowhead guide some parts say play deathstalker for more throughput
lilac stag
This week I think you see more logs closer together.
DS maybe princess for defensive
But gameplay kinda ass
thick field
yeah i'm coming back from dragonflight s1 and the trickster tree and gameplay feels pretty good tbh, i'm enjoying it so far
havent tried DS
lilac stag
you’ll swap back quick.
thick field
hm okay may just not even make the swap then lol
lilac stag
The spec still has issues, but quite honestly this is the most fun I’ve had running sub since dfa
things feel impactful
thick field
i had been playing ww this whole xpac, and while its fun i feel like im capped by the class. i miss on rogue back when i played it where it felt like if you were good you could compete with any class
lilac stag
The down time isn’t awful
thick field
i feel like i do everything near perfect on ww monk and i'm still struggling to keep up, especially on adds phases if i dont get random procs. sub felt like i had complete control and could top the charts if i played everything perfect
lilac stag
a lot of people jumped ship at start of expansion.
thick field
a lot of people jumped ship at start of expansion.
I believe that. it did not look fun frmo what i saw
swift tinsel
coup lock and other bugs killed it for me at the start
and it was that or mage bc ours quit just before prog
stiff remnant
yall still use Void Reaper trinket in keys? feels really lackluster IMO
alpine wraith
mandate for life snipe all the resets you can
otherwise ovi nax is mostly the better one if you can get it M
apart from transmitter of course
lilac stag
Mad queen snipers union
topaz raptor
the homie is coming back to m+ next week
i need a heroic mad queens glock
40% of his total damage taken in a run
slate marlin
in m+ while playign trickser, when do we use shuriken storm?
topaz raptor
i believe it is your multitarget cp generator outside of dance, worse than shadowstrike but better than backstab
slate marlin
even while flawless form is active?
wind canopy
Yes, the combo point generation is good out of dance
solar charm
!FUU
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
i was using backstab for nimble even outside of dance
nice
lilac stag
Fuu sarcasm very difficult to read.
vale pine
backstab is perfectly fine to use
so if you do that, thats advanced optimization
and thats nice to attempt when learning
topaz raptor
but it's to apply unseen right? not to deal nimble damage with form up
vale pine
but it's to apply unseen right? not to deal nimble damage with form up
unseen blades does trigger flawless form
slate marlin
alright, so backstab outside of flawless form to proc it, and while its active outside of dance storm for more cps
makes sense
vale pine
you use storm outside of dance most of the time
only on very low target counts use backstab
and ofc if flawless form drops
slate marlin
alright, thanks a lot
and whats the difference between shuriken storm, and veiltouched? im not using tornado well and honestly i dont like it
vale pine
you mean tornado
slate marlin
yes tornado
vale pine
tornado is mostly a filler to give you a short burst of finishers/combo points
veiltouched is just more damage always
a lot of our spells do magic damage
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
slate marlin
ill go veil then, tornado isnt fun to use
vale pine
it is, but also can be complicated or punishing
slate marlin
yep, already realized that
vale pine
thick field
i'm having trouble with wowhead talents guides for raid - what fights would you go the enhanced shuriken storm vs lower energy cost in dance? any adds at all? so only sikran/princess?
slate marlin
its specaily atrocious when i press shadow blades and realize i didnt use flag
vale pine
^ is the no tornado talent setup i tried and liked
vale pine
i'm having trouble with wowhead talents guides for raid - what fights would you ...
you essentially put shadow focus there on fights with multiple targets/adds
thick field
you essentially put shadow focus there on fights with multiple targets/adds
Right, any adds at all though? So basically every fight except the two pure st?
swift merlin
#subtlety discussing talents
#assassination discussing taylor swift sex appeal and feet
grave abyss
Right, any adds at all though? So basically every fight except the two pure st?
I would assume any situations where you would use a reasonable amount of shuriken storms
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
topaz raptor
@pliant topaz what kind of dps are you doing on pure st in 12+? like grim batol 1st boss
slate marlin
also, when i get coup and i dont have symbols or sd up, do i send it or use black powder and save it?
topaz raptor
as long as your target is fazed right
warm aspen
is there a wa to track when its up?
it's a debuff for platers lol
but also, if you JUST got coup
then the current target is 100% fazed
right
topaz raptor
yeah that makes sense, target should always be fazed if you coup immediately
slate marlin
its more about getting it at the end of a pull and carrying it over to the next one
warm aspen
then we can spread rupture and wait for fazed to proc
swift tinsel
^
warm aspen
or u can just drop into dance and sectech
that's guaranteed fazed too
gosh trickster is just SO cool!
static juniper
guys, can you give me a quick tldr about the differences between the two hero talents. ( i will read the guides later tonight )
swift tinsel
based
static juniper
good info
slate marlin
ruptures applies fazed?
vale pine
deathstalker lacks the cdr trickster has
uneven scarab
Very based take
static juniper
cdr, count me in
warm aspen
i swear like messing around a bit on DH where each button is just unrelated and "moar damage on cd"
makes trickster feel so sick
like how do u even come up with this shit man
topaz raptor
guys, can you give me a quick tldr about the differences between the two hero ta...
your main source of aoe is nimble flurry in the trickster tree so it is the only real multitarget option
static juniper
your main source of aoe is nimble flurry in the trickster tree so it is the only...
it is focused more on prio dmg or no?
swift tinsel
Prio damage is very strong for sub
static juniper
i am once again in the painful process of deciding what to play as an alt. I really want to play sub again as it was so fun last i played in df s1 😄 i know a lot has changed.
uneven scarab
Its very good and i think its really fun
topaz raptor
play a kultiran boomie
uneven scarab
if you feel that way you should play it
static juniper
i wanted to play disc, but no kick :X, therefore boomie out of the equation too 😄
swift tinsel
having sectec as the cd "anchor" makes it feel fun to play around and adds some flexibility that I enjoy
strange chasm
Trickster feels good
Never being parried is one of the most underrated parts
swift merlin
i swear like messing around a bit on DH where each button is just unrelated and ...
Rogue discovers glue eater class. 🫡
spark tusk
having sectec as the cd "anchor" makes it feel fun to play around and adds some ...
Yes I am enjoying this as well
static juniper
Never being parried is one of the most underrated parts
Love when i get colossus smash parried 💔
uneven scarab
Love when i get colossus smash parried 💔
how about warbreaker parry too
Dont forgot the aoe version can get parried
very well designed
warm aspen
Rogue discovers glue eater class. 🫡
lul yeah it's kinda insane how playing rogue will spoil u and make u judge every other melee dps spec
static juniper
very well designed <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
the NPC after that happens:
ok ty for the quick answers, definitely gonna consider sub
swift tinsel
its def the kind of spec you want to play around with a bit and get a better feel for it
bc the damage does feel really good with more sod and supercharger
swift merlin
lul yeah it's kinda insane how playing rogue will spoil u and make u judge every...
I tank on VDH and once in a while I'll roll Havoc for fun and yea it's kinda funny how everything is just largely unrelated
It's just Essense Break -> Death Sweep is the only interaction? Otherwise just press anything
warm aspen
I tank on VDH and once in a while I'll roll Havoc for fun and yea it's kinda fun...
lol yeah idk what's happening with that spec
i swear it never got away from the chaos strike faceroll roots on legion
just got more buttons to hit
uneven scarab
Inertia can be fun or just annoying
swift merlin
Button lights up just press it. Whack a mole
uneven scarab
ive come to realize
swift merlin
It's mostly annoying imo
uneven scarab
Yeah
slate marlin
another stupid question perhaps, on big pulls, do we rupture everything that doesnt die in miliseconds or we send 2/3 and call it a day?
warm aspen
honestly depends on a lot of factors lol
if it's a low key even if it's tankier mobs we just send cds right
uneven scarab
Rupture does do a bunch of damage but its really only worth on stuff that will live long
warm aspen
and if the tank is actually taking some time to gather the mobs u can just rupture while running around right
uneven scarab
Like 10 secs of rupture duration roughly
uneven scarab
and if the tank is actually taking some time to gather the mobs u can just ruptu...
Yeah
best way to go about it
warm aspen
and if it's a high key u can send cds -> rupture in downtime -> send cds again
bcuz holy fuck shits are tanky in 12 and above
slate marlin
ye between cds im sendin graptures
warm aspen
How are you guys even getting into 12s as Sub <:LUL:732629886208049163>
not thru pugs that's for sure lol
first pull of NW is a prime example of a big pull that takes a bit to set up tho
u can rupture like all the smaller melee stuff that always gets pulled first
slate marlin
im always sent to get shield so when i arrive pull is almost grouped already
and i prefer to full send fast for gatkeeper
but unsure if thats optimal
slate marlin
yes, for gatekeeper cast
and since theres a mob nearby that no one ever pulls, i sap and take it
swift merlin
Tank should just have you sap it and take
warm aspen
yeah ngl i miss when m+ was more about dodging stuff and blasting
nowadays it's kinda stat check and all cd planning
hazy breach
Not much has changed though
warm aspen
i think it's prolly becuz i miss the later parts of df
cuz it's a noticable shift in how the dungeons play
sinful sluice
Should i just discard transmitter / mad queen combo on m+?
So tired of transmitter orb flying out of map or flying over cliffs
sinful sluice
I mean, its goated on raids
rapid kite
Yo bois what's the new rotation / CD rotation as sub nowadays ?
sinful sluice
Just so hard to use on m+
rapid kite
Do we have a command for that yet ?
vale pine
transmitter is the only strong on use trinket
uneven scarab
Yeah its pretty much a hard lock in everywhere
vale pine
and perfectly fit the 90 sec niche
sinful sluice
I should try skardin/arakara egg combo
There is way too much situations where you cannot pick up transmitter orb or plate
vale pine
!transmitter
wicked joltBOT
The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png
warm aspen
idk sacbrood sims suuuuuper low for me
vale pine
it always spawns at the same position
sinful sluice
Yeah i know it spawns on same place
But still, if add patterns covers that or of it flies over cliff
I just have to let it go
warm aspen
i swear 626 ritual knife completely demolishes 639 sacbrood for me
alpine wraith
sacbrood is bad for usb
sinful sluice
Thats interesting
uneven scarab
I need something to replace contract for keys
Just havent gotten anything that good
warm aspen
ngl tho
i kinda wish twin fang instrument was better
idk why it sims so pisslow lol
uneven scarab
they did and it changed nothing
All the trinkets that got buffed are still bad
and the ones that got nerfed are still ran
sinful sluice
How are the trinkets from blackrock raid
warm aspen
when they're already in such a rough spot
uneven scarab
How are the trinkets from blackrock raid
not great
warm aspen
that they shipped 11.0.5 like this
uneven scarab
honestly the stuff from there looks like alt gear
warm aspen
it 100% is meant to be an alt raid lmao
but idk why it had mechanics that legit like 2shot me on lfr difficulty
when im 627 ilvl
sinful sluice
I mean i tried that raid
warm aspen
kinda insane
warm aspen
sucky tier in general tbh
item wise
only strong thing for us is a really unpleasant trinket
from uber late into the raid
sinful sluice
I hope they nerf skardin a bit and change its duration to 1:30
Ultimate transmitter skardin combo
warm aspen
i miss having viable "super rare" trinket from the 3rd boss of the raid lmao
vault of the incarnate was goated for that
woeful egret
well thats kind of annoying...
woeful egret
LOL that was like 3 days ago bruv
I went out of town for a wedding
woeful egret
anybody else doing better as sub in keys instead of sin now? I find myself just doing overall better
warm aspen
i dont think we would beat a good sin in overall tbh
BUT we're at the point where if ur better/more comfortable on sub u dont have to switch
woeful egret
i must be a shitty sin then
warm aspen
which is already good enough for me
woeful egret
<:Surebud:1083827360815665235>
someone has to take pictures
thick field
i'm looking at logs, how can yo utell if they bug abused? on raid it looks like for sub theres like 1-3 people just 200k+ above the rest of people
on most fights
alpine wraith
you just check for sub if they got more than 50 energy with relentless
and if they are deathstalker
warm aspen
someone has to take pictures
ah, maybe i should learn a useful skill too lmao
woeful egret
ah, maybe i should learn a useful skill too lmao
Nah, my wife's friend. I was like oh free fancy food? I'm in!
real panther
someone have found how to track supercharger other than just counting to 2 after sod?
warm aspen
bcuz im at the point in my life where i find out old high school friends are getting married thru facebook and i silently wish them the best without even hitting them up again
alpine wraith
there are supercharged auras
woeful egret
I still double use them sometimes, I must button mash too much
it only does it in my swifty macro, I guess I'll have to not be lazy and press ALL these buttons independently
amber thorn
do we ever use blackpowder with flawless up on any number of targets?
real panther
there are supercharged auras
i know, I can dig into these aura but if someone knows exactly what is the ui/aura/cleu event to track i'm down
woeful egret
isn't it like 8+?
alpine wraith
nope
woeful egret
good, cuz I never put it back on my bars lol
alpine wraith
it is a very big number like 12+
amber thorn
kk so mostly just evis
leaden prairie
how much do i lose not playing the spinny thing
lilac stag
anybody else doing better as sub in keys instead of sin now? I find myself just ...
Yes, but I fall asleep playing assa.
woeful egret
Yes, but I fall asleep playing assa.
don't mind me bro, just pooling
warm aspen
and the thing is, when you ARE getting 12+ targets, aren't some of them always gonna be like non-elite squishy trash
slate marlin
its trash ability zac
warm aspen
those aren't worth padding on right
lilac stag
Zac it’s legit just a filler to get cds back
leaden prairie
ok
uneven scarab
its either you use it to spread rupture or get a bit of cdr back yeah
woeful egret
I will admit, when I'm out of dance I do spam SS and BP to get dance charges back very lazily
uneven scarab
Veil touched better
warm aspen
Zac it’s legit just a filler to get cds back
do u remember the legion cloak tho lmao
woeful egret
then backstab every once in a while, it's not optimal, but I'm a flawed hooman
warm aspen
that make shuriken less garbage
woeful egret
I think dungeons are a good place to start
lilac stag
where can i learn sub .
!guides
warm aspen
target dummies
woeful egret
my dumb ass learned it in arena, don't be me
real panther
Ok so if anyone care, there is a "charged combo points" codition type in the Power trigger on weak auras now
tight bloom
Is backstab during SB and SD still a thing ?
woeful egret
I never noticed how bad the dmg of shuriken was until I tried to kill something with it
I knew it was bad, just not that bad
uneven scarab
Is backstab during SB and SD still a thing ?
No
we dont really care about macabre stacks anymore
tight bloom
Thank you for your answer 🙂
lilac stag
You’re just trying to get sectech off cd asap
woeful egret
diesn't it make 1st evis during dance super juicy though?
since we are secteching first?
uneven scarab
Yeah the name of the game is st immediately after dance and get as much cdr as possible on it fast
i mean st first just makes all the evisc’s after really juiced up yeah
woeful egret
can you just use the m+ build in raid? I don't ever have energy issues when dancing.
is it a higher sim or something? I usually run in m+ switching tornado for to veiltouched anyways
pliant topaz
M+ and pure single target builds are basically the same for trickster. I doubt anyone realistically takes tornado over vt, and SF is just a meme talent
woeful egret
ok cool, cuz in my mind shuriken would bring more value building cps outside of dance in alot of situations
it critting more often is more cdr. thanks
pliant topaz
Imma be honest pretty sure it’s less overall to take it
swift tinsel
nado?
woeful egret
nado isn't too bad, it feels cool when it works but the combo points allocate at different cadence it feels like and I end up munching too many combo points to feel happy about pressing it in some situations
pliant topaz
How’d u get it what
pliant topaz
Bro broke the game
swift tinsel
I've done one mount mania thing day one and thats it this event lol
woeful egret
you can warmode transfer the coins
swift tinsel
so far behind
pliant topaz
I thought u could get max like 48 no?
sly shore
I've done the TW and I've done Queen
you can only get coins from rewards once per week
so I did TW on my alt and transferred to main
I didn't do the quest abuse either
this is natty
pliant topaz
Oh that’s sick! Nice nice, I’ll try it! Can you link the WA please? 😛
sly shore
idk if there is better ones
can probably see if there is
This website also good
for tracking
pliant topaz
I love Kieron! Ty. I’ll tell scana to kiss you on the cheek
pliant topaz
That’s pretty sick! Your damage must be insane then. I’d imagine 19 manning kyveza isn’t easy
sly shore
I think after cuts, the guild gets 40M
spark tusk
how much is a boost mythic?
strange chasm
How much you making cut wise that's what I wanna know
sly shore
This is WITHOUT rare items
it's going to guild bank
we need to recoup the gold we spent
but it's a HUGE dent
strange chasm
We made bank week 1 with boes
strange chasm
Oh we farmed them :/ waste of time but saved a lot of gold
vale pine
thats a lot of gold
sly shore
but todays bought special items and rare items
so after community cuts and w/e we get 40M
pliant topaz
I suppose we spent 140M this tier
https://tenor.com/view/squidward-spare-change-spare-some-change-begging-poor-gif-1281766816980485400
I have spent 1.5M gold on dumb shit this expac and now am at 400k 
spark tusk
god damn that's a lot of gold even for me
alpine wraith
i spent around 6m too
warm aspen
i swear this sever turns wow into an extreme sport lol
pliant topaz
I… I feel broke af now lmfao
alpine wraith
but i also want my shoulders with leecho
warm aspen
jesus those gold
strange chasm
140m is pretty insane.
spark tusk
I don't think this is right because I'm net positive
strange chasm
We spent 10m on aug runes and flipped them for major profit
alpine wraith
yea i did that a bit too but not 10m only around 4m
first 2 weeks
then sold at like 2400
vale pine
I don't think this is right because I'm net positive
thats a lot of gold
spark tusk
Spot the events: Purchase Expac with gold, Expansion launch, heroic week, mythic week,
keen dome
Haha, damn
Big fan of big gold
I don't make anywhere near that, but a comfy 100k every few days while idling in Dornogal.
keen dome
ye
spark tusk
actually shook up my market
spark tusk
But haven't had a reset yet
keen dome
My income is just from doing WO's and selling resourcefulness procs.
alpine wraith
i want to buy shoulders then i begin hoarding for next patch
keen dome
PvP rings are still really good if you proc the bloodstone
I'm sad there's no "Gold earned from work orders" statistic
spark tusk
I've still been able to bulk up, that graph is just liquid, doesn't have assets, I have done at least a bit of preparing for next reset again but rank3 gems all dropped so they're barely profitable anymore
not my biggest haul
Just hoping that rank 3s go up again after reset
and we'll be back, rank2s have been slowly climbing
keen dome
I think we're hitting a point where a lot of people can produce them too, even with the changes to materials.
spark tusk
the uncut gems are also climbing slowly
warm aspen
ngl tho no gold earning method is quite as fun as boosting keys lol, legit getting paid to crush low level content, just fly thru the thing like ur playing diablo3
rain smelt
During pull how do we send our 2nd burst window? Like full cp -> flag -> rupture -> shadowblades+dance+sod+sectech?
Or do we delay sblades like in opener?
spark tusk
I think we're hitting a point where a lot of people can produce them too, even w...
yeah, it's just all about diversity, I have 6 gems I can guarantee at max now
have 6 more to go
keen dome
Awesome, that's really good.
I've been slowly putting points in gems too, but went fully into making gear so I'm behind. Still, made probably 2m+ so from idling in dornogal haha
spark tusk
Well
I have 2 JCs
er, 3
One is fully specced into gems, one is maxed out in prospecting tree
and oen is maxed on gear tree
but
keen dome
Oh, very nice.
spark tusk
I barely use the gear one
at all
At least it's not alchemy levels of KP required....
that shit is brutal
keen dome
I just sit in the city when not actively playing WoW, send my macro out every 10 minutes. Make items as I get 'em. Also watching trade for people looking for crafts.
I'm sad marbled stone and crushed gemstones have collapsed as a market though
spark tusk
uh yeah those were a part of my process
keen dome
Typically I was getting 2 - 5k tips, then proccing resourcefulness for 3 - 5k mats lol
spark tusk
I have a whole thing going
Gemstones are still ok
it's all locked to price of bismuth
keen dome
Yeah
keen dome
I've been slowly sorting a BS out to make Sanctified, but I need to actually cost it sometime and see how many multicraft procs, etc, I need to hit to make it worthwhile.
swift tinsel
now that farm is mostly over for us I usually spend an hour a day farming herb/ore with truesight and stockpile r3 consumes for next tier
spark tusk
Unfortunately commoditites are tied to the typical market forces
e.g. tendency for rate of profit to fall
keen dome
Yep
spark tusk
so
swift tinsel
unless they announce better pots/flasks/etc it usually nets a pretty huge profit
keen dome
It's why I vastly prefer gear crafting. Sitting idle, just making gold for push button.
spark tusk
because everyone who is meeting supply/demand at this time is able to craft at better margins than you, and they can sustain very small margins that you can't
keen dome
That was my worry, yeah
spark tusk
which is why any commodity market I'm in I'm in deep to stay caught up
but getting into it now wouldn't be feasible
plush garden
Hi, quick question regarding Trickster in M+
If I don't have 2 flawless form, I use Black Powder, and it I have 2+ stacks I funnel Evi on prio and keep Rupture rolling on target?
swift tinsel
I gave up on all of that after missing a good amount of time early on
keen dome
I spent 1m gold on the stupid Binding of Binding recipe and I wish I could go tell myself to just wait like, a week for it to be a fraction of the price lmao
spark tusk
I spent 1m gold on the stupid Binding of Binding recipe and I wish I could go te...
See if you can spot the point on my graph wehre I spent 1m on the Socket recipe heh
It was also the day whispyr accused me of being cheap
swift tinsel
I got suuuper lucky with midnight masquerade dropping on multiple toons and Blood pools spawns, they printed gold once the raid came out
spark tusk
So I bought it and to the moon, but that shit was over very quickly
settings are not great profit anymore
I lost a bunch crafting them
swift tinsel
settings went from 20k+ to 5k almost overnight it felt like
thick field
Hi, quick question regarding Trickster in M+
If I don't have 2 flawless form, I ...
Pretty sure you just need flawless form up at all, not necessarily multiple stacks. if you don't and theres more than 1 target you use black powder instead of evisc
spark tusk
settings went from 20k+ to 5k almost overnight it felt like
It was a slow decline, it was just perma locked to nullstone
but because of that
the time between buying, crafting, and selling
you lost gold because the prices dropped
thick field
but you almost never press black powder
spark tusk
it went down that fast
plush garden
but you almost never press black powder
sadgers