subtlety

[vale lagoon]

the very idea of 2 stack dance is just poopy tbh

like having our power budgeted around 2 stack dance means we always wanna save up 2 dances for flag

[lucid jackal]

WRONG

[vale lagoon]

which then leads to us not being able to just send dances/symbols

[lucid jackal]

I think dry symbols is fine

[vale lagoon]

well ig im just too adhd lol

[lucid jackal]

charges of SOD and no more dust makes this spec feel soooooooooooooooo goood

[pliant topaz]

I do agree with that, trickster feels litearlly absolute cinema

[lucid jackal]

Okay armin

[vale lagoon]

dry symbols rly bother me even tho i fking love how it plays already

[lucid jackal]

Did you figure out where the random CP comes from

I was getting it all night

[vale lagoon]

same btw

[lucid jackal]

Ill use a finisher

[pliant topaz]

i told you, its either RS or coup

they both can do it

[lucid jackal]

How does RS give CP

I don't understand

U didn't answer that part

[pliant topaz]

its been a bug since 10.2

[wind canopy]

Yeah, it's a bug

[pliant topaz]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[pliant topaz]

its in the bug tracker

[deft oar]

i was confused why i was getting full cps

[pliant topaz]

its why kush in 10.2 wasnt playing it in dungeons

because it was that annoying

[vale lagoon]

also do we still have old shadow techniques or what

like recently i'd throw out a SS

[lucid jackal]

Oh i see

[vale lagoon]

land on 4 cp

[lucid jackal]

Random af bug

But gotcha

But yeah idk, this spec is so fun rn

[vale lagoon]

and im about to strike again, but then 2 more CPs fill in like 0.5 seconds later

like wtf

[tribal blade]

yooo ovinax completely unplayable right now

[alpine wraith]

hehe yea that one is funny

[tribal blade]

because of instance lag

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

trickster rn

[tribal blade]

i haven't tried sub yet because i was dealing with crash issues, we liking sub?

[vale lagoon]

bro i think im going to become a blizzard bootlicker if they jsut give us like a 2% aura buff

gonna try tfd tmrw

[alpine wraith]

as long as the fight is not long it is ok

[uneven scarab]

honestly does feel much better than i expected

enjoying it

[tribal blade]

i need to see actual output

[vale lagoon]

1.7 mil overall in +11 AK

[lucid jackal]

Symbols charges are soooooooooooooo sick man

Dude charges always make specs feel more fun its insane

Vanish charges for Outlaw, Symbols charges for sub

[vale lagoon]

like we can actually pad in low keys now lol

drop in, flag rupture and start dancing

nimble flurry go brrrrrr

[uneven scarab]

ovinax pad feels awesome as trickster

actually fucking pumped

[vale lagoon]

gonna try to get at least the easiest +12s done this week

motivation recovered

NW DB Mist SoB here i come!

almost wanna call in sick for work

[tribal blade]

mmm i don't think NW is an easy 12

[vale lagoon]

and just play all day lmao

[vale lagoon]

idk, it was the easiest out of all the 11s

bcuz i did it after nerfs

[tribal blade]

it's a difference between the 2 key levels then

it took me a while to time it

[vale lagoon]

wait did u pug

[tribal blade]

yeah pugging

[vale lagoon]

yeah lmfao

[tribal blade]

NW is in the bottom half of difficulty

[vale lagoon]

i swear being on comms with 4 bros

makes it so much better

and having a rly skilled tank too

the sorta guy who's like 2.4k on first week lol

[tribal blade]

i see i see

[ebon tiger]

ele shamans and bm hunters put me in my place but trickster felt pretty strong in raid tonight

[reef elm]

is Searing Needle any good, i just got a heroic verison BOE to drop

[vale lagoon]

yeh tbh i just get carried by my RL so i prolly dont feel half the difficult points of dungeons lol

i swear he makes me do more dmg

im just his dps slut

[cursive vale]

Bug working again?

[tribal blade]

11 NW was pretty fast to time for sure, but once i tried getting 12 it was a whole different ball park

the guile affix makes a big difference in there

[pliant topaz]

its kinda like 3 key level jump instead of 1

1. you lose the helpful affix

2. the key itself

3. the 10% health and damage

[tribal blade]

casts going off

death

[vale lagoon]

is it just stichflesh

but dang yeah i forgot u lose the dmg amp affix by 12

sucks

[lethal thorn]

quick question do we bother to ever hard cast a slice now after the patch ?

[vale lagoon]

prolly no right

even if ur playing ds in keys for some reason

and ur in pure aoe for like 5 mins straight

u just consume DN

[tribal blade]

there's a lot more than just that boss, any cast going off can cause a wipe

the tank getting fucked by the mobs that enrage

the 1 shots

everywhere

[vale lagoon]

dang

and for like almost 630 ilvl ppl huh

thats fucked

[tribal blade]

it's one of those situations where that 1 key level makes everything go from "oh that cast got off, that sucks"

to "we're dead"

[vale lagoon]

jesus

yeah ig i'll count on our RL calling every interrupt again kekw

BUT MAN

trinkets are so fucked this tier lol

[lethal thorn]

anything good loot wise in the BRD raid ?

[desert panther]

Feel like its alot nice here than in assa channel

[alpine wraith]

nah brd is more to gear alts

[lucid jackal]

@vale pine

[vale lagoon]

that kinda sucks tbh 😦

i wish we could have some cool tech of a weird vanilla trinket being cracked lol

[alpine wraith]

they killed everything decent and it is hero track

[vale lagoon]

not even transmitter level cracked but just viable

[alpine wraith]

well hand of justice is decent for sub

[vale lagoon]

something like the delve trinket

hand of justice sims like shit for me tho

[umbral apex]

Is there a trickster build that still takes tea or is it always a super charger angle now?

[vale lagoon]

BRO just use supercharger

drop CB for tea if u rly have to

im telling u, it feels like getting a blowjob

[umbral apex]

Gotcha ty 👍🏽

[proper fulcrum]

What an insane statement lmfao

[vale lagoon]

broooo compared to start of season

this update is a fking dream

[proper fulcrum]

BJs for all the Sub bros

[vale lagoon]

i swear blizzard was burying us alive in those first few weeks

the dirt was up to our necks

but this is comeback arc!

we're still not like top dog dmg tho

[old anchor]

whats the talent tree look like with supercharge sorry Im just getting back into this season

[old anchor]

and this is for ST right or both M+ and ST?

[vale lagoon]

pretty much

[old anchor]

thank you

[alpine wraith]

leech and shorter shroud are kinda cool too if you want those

[brazen talon]

a question about charger. how does that work? I activate symbols and I have to hit my first two combo points?

[alpine wraith]

also yoo they finally fixed the human racial bug

[vale lagoon]

THAT is bugged too?

[vale lagoon]

nope

just the first 2 finishers u spend at whatever CP

[alpine wraith]

nah it juse uses same fx but it is just consumed on offensive finisher

[vale lagoon]

gets 2 more cp added to them passively

[alpine wraith]

basically imagine you come back to wow without knowing ER existed

it just works

it is also to limit the pre things you can do

you can only charge 7 cp ehehe

[vale lagoon]

isn't it 2?

[alpine wraith]

yea but that is in raid combat

in dungeons and other places if there is rp you can send 2 or 3

and charge all cps

[vale lagoon]

what about

just start of key

[alpine wraith]

havent tried

[vale lagoon]

LUL

[alpine wraith]

but SoD does not reset on key beginning

no idea if charger cps do

[vale lagoon]

but the CPs are perma right

[brazen talon]

ah cool thanks, so completely passive nothing to do

[vale lagoon]

u just charge 7 cps while waiting for tank/healer kek

[alpine wraith]

like this is me going through the world

idk if the 7 charged cps stay

but you can turnip and get snd to max before so no idea

well i will try when i ge tinto a key but it wont be until much much later today

[vale lagoon]

yeah lol like just charge these things while u chill and form group

[alpine wraith]

so if anyone wants to do it

they are welcome

[vale lagoon]

i slept 4 hours last night and i have to wake up in 8 hours from now rip

man i SO want to call in sick a day

and just fking

grnd

[lethal thorn]

quick question how the fuck the new supercharged CP work do i need to hit a specific CP or just send at max ?

[vale lagoon]

just send at max

it's full auto

[brazen talon]

XD I see this talent raises some questions xD so the buff stays 4 ever untill consumed and we just load prepull till we get all blue an then bambambam ?

[vale lagoon]

technically they save forever but raid fights reset it to 2

or so i heard

m+ needs to be tested still

[tacit aspen]

did anyone every answer this question? it's not covered in the wowhead build directly. the wording is "Talents like Death Perception or Supercharger and multiple targets mitigate this problem and can remove blank Symbols of Death casts.", which i assume means we can dance every symbols?

[sinful sluice]

how does our spec look so far? its not live on my server yet 😦

heard evis is bugged??

[lucid jackal]

So good

Feels the best its ever felt

Numbers idk

Vibe 💯

[sinful sluice]

rly?

[vale lagoon]

technically we can have a symbol for every dance

but we have to hold a dance

to have 2 dance by flag cd

[sinful sluice]

holy shit i have midterms tmrw but i already want to play sub all day so bad

[tacit aspen]

so then how does "talents like death perception mitigate the blank symbols" problem, per the wowhead doc?

[vale lagoon]

it's unfortunately just not true lol

just the nature of 2 dance setup

or at least it's a technicality

[tacit aspen]

okay, so basically our symbols/double dance usage is like deathstalker before 11.0.5?

and this just applies to trickster now too?

[vale lagoon]

ehhhhhhhh

i dont play dust ds so no clue lol, m+ only andy here

but in practice it's a lot better

basically u get SO many CP that ur almost dancing as much as ur triple sectech opener with dust

in the opener

once blades wears off it slows down a bit but ur still getting dance back hella quick

[tacit aspen]

if coup-de-grace + fazed is up, are we still STing before evis or is it same as before 11.0.5

[tacit aspen]

thats dope

[vale lagoon]

check this https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1271971289396936735

[steel horizon]

I think u still have to send one symbols w/o dance if you wanna be able to double dance at the 1:30 mark, no?

[vale lagoon]

for all in intricacies

[vale lagoon]

that's what im saying lol

sucks we still got a naked symbol

[blissful flare]

Am I reading the WoWhead guide correctly? Is there only a single build for raid now?

[tacit aspen]

i think regarding the coup-de-grace question, its not explicitly mentioend there unless i missed something

[vale lagoon]

if it's not there then assuming it stays the same

[steel horizon]

So, no then. Symbols and dance usage is just like trickster before patch

[tacit aspen]

no, because trickster triple danced

[pliant topaz]

okay im lowkey blastin

[wise badger]

nerf inc?

[steel horizon]

Oh i meant in regards to sending a symbols w/o dance

[tacit aspen]

ah okay, yeah makes sense

[tacit aspen]

thanks

[vale lagoon]

BRO

beating shaman?

u need to chill before we hit with a 5% aura nerf buddy

[steel horizon]

Did u guys remove shadow focus in the m+ build to put a point into imp shuriken storm?

[pliant topaz]

yes

[rough sigil]

what are you running? Keys? whats the build?

About to try a key right now

[alpine wraith]

if you are about to run a keuy

try this for me

use all SoD to get the cps charger and tell if they stay as dungeon begins

[rough sigil]

before key insert, got it

i'll let you know

[alpine wraith]

well not before key just whenever

like even as people wait for people to arrive

[rough sigil]

okie

[alpine wraith]

in overworld it works

[fair stump]

we don't send symbols on cooldown anymore?

[alpine wraith]

it is a bit diff

but not much

first 1:30 min we dance with sec tech kinda

double dance then like at 30 secs when you can sec tech again then at 45-50 as CB comes off cd

then at 60 then at 1:30

afterwards you run out of SoD kinda so you skip one then dance with CB then send SoD alone before cds at 3

[fair stump]

Damn that's even worse than before lol

[alpine wraith]

well people dont mind it as much it seems

i think it is quite meh but time flies fast

[rough sigil]

I know I wasn't playing optimally but I was doing pretty good damage, so I can't imagine you insane players. During raid today

[vale lagoon]

thing is

@alpine wraith timeline wise the small breaks between pulls in keys

REALLY smoothes out the stacks

so yeah the spec is rly comfy again

sucks to suck if ur trying to play this in raid tho lmao it doesn't solve the core issue of 2 stack dance requiring naked symbols

[dawn pasture]

with these change , i just prsnly get the feeling , they again destroyed the spec.

[vale lagoon]

maybe its just cuz 2 out of the 3 keys i did were cot and db kek

[lucid jackal]

How so

[umbral topaz]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[raw violet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

oh damn the spec feels completely different

the sustain on 5 target dummies is still not as good as sin

[daring raptor]

Will never be. It is sub. Sub is meant to be a high burst spec, and assa is ment to be a good overall dps spec. bleed vs high single hitting abilities. Should also be this way

[sick jackal]

please dont give me hope

[sinful sluice]

what are we cooking on m+? is it better now ?

[safe bolt]

For m+ we re still using dark brew or not?

[fair stump]

So, on opener I used to dance and immediatly use the second dance as soon as the first one was over. Do I delay that to align it with sectec?

[alpine wraith]

no on opener you just dance twice yea

[fair stump]

and use symbols on pandemic at 3 secs?

[alpine wraith]

the third dance just comes quite close but not as before where we used 3 in a row

not really a need now to pandemic it ideally you get coup and sec tech onto those chargers

but it does not always happens

[fair stump]

Okay

Damn, I'll prolly need a video of a rotation soon, I'm too stupid to play sub optimally

[alpine wraith]

i will try to put one before raid

but it is not super complicated

there are some min maxes but you could also ignore them

[tribal blade]

one of the biggest things to get used to is how often you can dance between cds

[rancid surge]

for coup am i holding it for both dance and symbol or can i send it with just symbol

[sick jackal]

is it 30 secs still

tbh i am used to just dance every sod

[tribal blade]

right now iirc you watch sectec's cd

instead of symbols

[sick jackal]

do we ever send a dance withour sod?

[tribal blade]

because it's on a charge system so you can send it when sectec comes off cd

and then you have to be careful to watch out for flag+blades cd coming back up

to start holding

[tribal blade]

with charge system now no

[sick jackal]

with max burst do i need 2 sod or 1 is enough?

[tribal blade]

you want 2 symbols for every cd set

so if that means you have to hold stuff before your next cd set, that's the play

iirc at around ~30 secs before next cd set you start holding everything

[fair stump]

is that at minimum or we can go above 2 symbols?

[sick jackal]

thinking just that

[tribal blade]

nah you don't want to cap on symbols charges

oh wait you meant something else

[fair stump]

Oh, you want as in you hold 2 charges

[tribal blade]

we don't triple dance cds

[fair stump]

I thought you meant you use 2 symbols between cds

[tribal blade]

nah use 2 symbols during every cd set

[lethal thorn]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/6-new-classes-for-dracthyr-race-now-available-hunter-mage-priest-rogue-warlock-348691

any idea if scalies are going to be meta ?

[tribal blade]

and then i honestly haven't been paying attention to how many dances i do between cds, i just start holding at certain points

[pliant topaz]

idk keys feel a lot better

they kinda feel low this was a 12

[sick jackal]

can you send me a talent tree

[pliant topaz]

on higher keys itll be a lot better

cds feel wasted

[pliant topaz]

its the one from pins. trickster

[sick jackal]

thanks

[pliant topaz]

only this much from the dev bambardment too

but yeah spec does good damage now

[tribal blade]

what does the breakdown of nimble vs BP damage look like

[pliant topaz]

i didnt really bp maybe like 4 times the whole key

[lucid jackal]

Oh right they forgot to fix the last shit thing about this spec, fucking tornado

[alpine wraith]

you can skip tornado

oh and also you dont really rupture before pull to not mess up the chargers

now you do it after cds

[vale lagoon]

can someone be a bro

test tfd in keys

[alpine wraith]

it is good

[tribal blade]

i might skip nado for VT honestly

[warm veldt]

I did - it felt both fun and strong when I could get it, but the only time I could reasonably get it was maze in mots

turbo strong for mots maze

[alpine wraith]

yea tornado now is just cdr

or to put ruptures up

[vale lagoon]

cant we just hang back

and like

not get in comba

for tfd lol

[alpine wraith]

you can as long as you get 1 or 2 uses every 5 mins

it is worth

even more if 1 of those uses is before cds

[timid pulsar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[desert panther]

so whats the m+ spec looking like. What trinkets do we want to use in dungeons? ive only played sub in raid

[alpine wraith]

trinkets dont change much

[vale lagoon]

transmitter unfortunately

[fair stump]

treacherous is probably the best

which is bad

[alpine wraith]

transmitter and ovi nax/hero knife

i quite like mandate tho

to snipe some fools

[warm veldt]

mandate also has alot of util for certain pulls / that one affix where you gotta kill that mob that spawns

[desert panther]

kinda like having touch of death on ur monk when u got mandate

[warm veldt]

its nice to just say 'mmmm this mob isnt here anymore'

[vale lagoon]

nuking knaifu with mandate?

that's fucked

[desert panther]

https://tenor.com/view/oppenheimer-cillian-murphy-barbenheimer-barbie-oppenheimer-movie-gif-14455380668331281856

[sick jackal]

whats the least dps loss trinket i can get to replace transmitter

[willow bobcat]

A lower ilvl transmitter

[sick jackal]

i already use a normal one

[pliant topaz]

theres lfr

[rain smelt]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[near rivet]

oh boy, finally

[sick jackal]

gz

is 18k versa too much even for us?

[near rivet]

idk, sim it

[zinc saddle]

uhm is the spec recommendations updated here already somewhere?

[small crown]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty mural]

still waiting on my transmitter

atleast i got mandate today finally

[sick jackal]

dont get it its a curse

[ionic ore]

guys, do you also have insane input lag when playing right now? or am I delusional

it feels so delayed everything

[sick jackal]

your more happy without it

[ionic ore]

ms is 16ms

[toxic knoll]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty mural]

i am happy when my cds slap

and thats with transmitter tho

[sick jackal]

i get that but i am in dornogal

[gritty knot]

So Sub is back in keys? I can finally leave assa behind?

[short radish]

nah they're cooking with some subterfuge MA build

but yeah vibes in here have been pretty positive

[haughty mural]

this week will be 5 sparks right ?

[formal helm]

should be, yes

iirc

[haughty mural]

[toxic knoll]

what is the new ds build for m°

[vale lagoon]

my god it's fking crazy how sacbrood sims so low for sub

[gritty knot]

@short radish what's that exactly? Can someone pls give me a link? I am on my phone rn not ingame

[vale lagoon]

but it's also crazy how shit twin fang instrument is lol

[gritty knot]

Thx ❤️

[short radish]

np

stab on brother

[alpine wraith]

that is a weird sub build

[gritty knot]

Ye I am kinda confused. I thought we talking bout Sub hahaha

[honest saddle]

I do not understand why in god's name they would allow sod to overwrite sod

I have to change how I have played sub for years

and get new keybinds

so fucking unecessary

[fair stump]

perhaps that's next season's sub build

[brittle shard]

No that’s this seasons sub build

Hopefully next seasons will be a sub build

[sick jackal]

i hope we get some aura buff next week

like %8 at leasy so we can play the spec again confortably

[haughty mural]

[half comet]

no more of black powder in M+?

back to trickster

what target count do we powder at

[alpine wraith]

yea also it seems they fixed the snd talent

[haughty mural]

recup ?

[alpine wraith]

if anyone can check in a full key

it worked for some delves for me

[haughty mural]

i'll see if i can chek it soon

do you know whats roughly the diff between vt and tornado ?

[alpine wraith]

no need just checked a raid log from yday

[alpine wraith]

not much for trickster

you use it outside cds to get cdr or before anything to get ruptures

but tbh to avoid messing up charger i would not use it unless you know

[haughty mural]

noice - finally some sustain

[alpine wraith]

soothing was better tho

around 10k better

[haughty mural]

yea - i would also do it for ruptures

but hell yea im down for avoiding it in the first place and take vt if the diff is marginal

true soothing will be missed deeply

if now the replicating bug would be fixed i am a little bit happy inm+

[near rivet]

you mean late refunds?

or spread range?

[short radish]

hey man this is cooked up by whispyr

[haughty mural]

shadowcraft interaction is the most annyoing for me

[ornate heron]

1fuu

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[haughty mural]

spread range idc - can be played around

[haughty mural]

he is going insane

[near rivet]

best i could do is make my sht stacks WA glow yellow when there might be an late refund from replicating or coup

with 5-6 stacks

or green with over 7

[leaden ledge]

what's the reason? let me cope

[still crystal]

wow wait so i was right void reapers is better than mandate

tahts funny

just saw ST sims

i thought i was crazy and my sims were fucked

[keen dome]

I am sad about the flagelation icon.

They stole the colour 😦

[leaden ledge]

much more in theme tbh

[still crystal]

ya

more shadowy

[spice escarp]

3565724 > new version

[hollow patio]

Are somebody getting errors in SIMC?

[still crystal]

maybe in the void raid next season we'll have a bigger rework for shadow damage focused build :^)

[red vortex]

thaank!

[pliant topaz]

hey devlin do you by any chance have anything for the supercharger stuff in your pack?

[spice escarp]

nothing fancy atm, just overlay

[pliant topaz]

noice noice might yoink it then thanks :3

dont say #1080572530554835072 @wind canopy

:3

[keen dome]

It should be purple 😠

[wind canopy]

I’m trying to work on something to be in icon form because the overlay seems weird to me. I know in a bar setup, it sets it as the first two CP

Also #1080572530554835072

[pliant topaz]

I usually prefer an icon too

lmk if u get something working

if I have time maybe i make something tmrw idk

[wind canopy]

It’s got errors atm but this is what I have: #wow-general message

[pliant topaz]

nice nice i yoink :3

[plush roost]

Hey devlin just wanted to say thanks for your WA package, my favorite of the bunch! And thank you for updating it so quickly ❤️

[spice escarp]

thanks! glad you like it

[keen dome]

I was hoping my very hacky solution to anime combie points woudl work with the change but alas, no. I will have to find an even hackier, stupider solution for my own WA's..

[twin quartz]

i wonder if this silly thing is bis again like it was last expansion (from kazzak)

[wind canopy]

Well, it doesn’t work with the recent set of changes. The damn icon appears even when the charged CP are gone and the count doesn’t update when you spend a charge >_<

[pliant topaz]

you can sim it!

[twin quartz]

i tried, and it wont scale it appropriately. it shows a +2 fire damage on autoattacks, and it gives mainstat somehow

when you set it to 606

[alpine wraith]

ya it is using a diff dataset from last expansion

likely it will get added these days

but for sub at least the court neck is too good

[twin quartz]

yeah, perfect stats

[alpine wraith]

i crafted mine tho

had no luck with that neck

[twin quartz]

ive managed to grab the heroic version

which ill be using until maybe a mythic one drops

[vale pine]

anything i need to correct?

still talking about the same bug

[jaunty umbra]

I think the dust part

[upper oracle]

is there supposed to be a buff on my frames when I have supercharger? Or am I supposed to just believe?

[alpine wraith]

it shows on the cps

[delicate ridge]

first 2 combo points r blue but yea no buff from what ive seen

[vale pine]

ohh, i see

i forgot to remove dust in that section

[pulsar mauve]

wait so we are playing 2 DS assa for prog, it's fucking with us ?

[upper oracle]

All good, guessing cause I have a WA set that I havent updated it isn't showing. Thought it may show as a buff like how the old supercharged cp's used to.

just double checking my stuff wasn't bugged out.

[pliant topaz]

nah simc just had a lil bug for a while its fixed now.

[wise escarp]

oh shit! I only saw this now

woohoo

solace for losing dust

[fiery grove]

can someone just calrify for me with animacharched CP's if my first 2 combo points are charged and i use 3 or more combo points on a finisher does this still give me the benefit of those charged CP's

or do i have to only use the 2

[wispy pebble]

am i dumb or is there no buff for charged combo points? I wanted to adjust my WAs but i cant find the indicator for the Combo points

[pliant topaz]

theres no buff

only base ui

[red vortex]

no buff

which makes it even worse to track

[wispy pebble]

you cant be serious. I cant adjust my WA then?

[pliant topaz]

its not the actual first 2 cps. its next 2 finishers at any combo points

[glacial basin]

when we wanna use transmitter now? with flag again?

[fiery grove]

ty i thought so, just wanted to be sure

[wind canopy]

It's like unseen blade, they don't want a buff to track how many you have available

[vale pine]

na, guy highlighted that i still had dust in the talent paragraph, i corrected it

[hard plaza]

Any notable loot we want from BRD?

[twin quartz]

9 CP coup de grace and sectech hits like a dumptruck

[hard plaza]

Or is it just bad because hero track max?

[vale pine]

We highlighted all changes in the rogue changes article.

[wispy pebble]

wait do i even have to track the cps? Or do i just use the normal cp and my shit does more dmg. Maybe i got confused with old ER

[vale pine]

same as before

you use transmitter with flag

trigger it during dance

[hard wren]

Thanks babe. Really appreciate the good work you put in to help fellow rogues.

[placid crown]

Hello guys. So, when we supercharge, there is no buff shown

[red vortex]

there is no buff

[wispy pebble]

is shadow techniques even more delayed this patch?

Or is donrogal just laggy

[placid crown]

i mean "2 super cp are charged" could be understood as a buff

[red vortex]

but it doesnt show as a buff

[fair anchor]

Yeah but do you really need to track supercharge ? Its just for info right ? doesnt affect decision should still send finisher at 6cp and sectec second finisher

[placid crown]

i have to change my ui to see the cp charged... (pink is my cp bar)

[wispy pebble]

I agree With old ER in mind its confusing. But i dont think we have to track it

[red vortex]

we all do

im also working on a fix on my own WA

[wispy pebble]

Your cp bar makes me uncomfortable....

[hard ember]

vertical weakauras are diabolical

[wispy pebble]

no segmented combo points as wel

[placid crown]

color changes depending on the number of cp

[wispy pebble]

SEGMENT THEM

[placid crown]

why

it's useless

[wise escarp]

ouh la la

[viscid ocean]

grey flag makes me nervous... thinking its not rdy all the time

[wispy pebble]

https://tenor.com/bFzFn.gif

[wind canopy]

If it works for him, works for him

[tribal blade]

got into a 12 DB with dorki's alt prot pal

[wind canopy]

That's not sub

[tribal blade]

couldn't get into anything else sadly

[tribal blade]

I KNOW IM A TRAITOR

[alpine wraith]

burn him

[wind canopy]

smh my head

[wispy pebble]

uh my escalating blade is not getting used on dummy....

[summer mica]

fuck assa

[tribal blade]

i'll start doing some sub keys at some point possibly

[formal helm]

That's not sub

[tribal blade]

need 1 more person to confirm if this is in fact sub or not

[formal helm]

[tribal blade]

can't tell yet

[keen dome]

Man, you blasting

[formal helm]

Can someone help confirm it?

[tribal blade]

i just come in here to talk to you guys because i'm a sub boy

[keen dome]

❤️ same

[wind canopy]

I couldn't replicate it consistently, but is SnD always coming up when you hit evis?

[placid crown]

at least confirming it's not outlaw

[wispy pebble]

having issues as well

[formal helm]

Oh, true

[alpine wraith]

only coup does not trigger snd

but all other evis should

[formal helm]

Isn't that empowered evis basically?

Why does it not trigger snd

[alpine wraith]

yea but it is not coded like that

unlucky

[formal helm]

Xd

[alpine wraith]

get better devs

[hollow patio]

Somebody having this issue while simming?

[tribal blade]

they did something really strange with coup

[wind canopy]

I'll have to check to see if it was coup

[alpine wraith]

wrong apl or version

nightly worked for me

[formal helm]

Best I can do is buff black powder by 20%

[tribal blade]

i don't quite understand why they chose to make coup work in such a complicated way

[alpine wraith]

because they can and maybe they already left the company so the problem is someone else's

final act of defiance

[vale pine]

looks like sub to me

[keen dome]

🫡

[wind canopy]

This guy

[tribal blade]

DAMN IM BLASTING WITH SUB

[wispy pebble]

WE BACK

[formal helm]

Yoooo

[vestal escarp]

If only................

[wispy pebble]

"one of them is not like the others"

[vale pine]

make sure to use latest/nightly and remove old custom apl's if you use any

[alpine wraith]

armin did 1 and good

[tribal blade]

i think sub will be really good for mists

[wispy pebble]

But for real shadow techniques feels even slower

[alpine wraith]

but also that key was cursed no shaman warrior or dh/monk

you lose like 200k dps

[wind canopy]

Was sub doing like 11-12 mil on some pulls in keys before the patch? Pulled up Kush's stream and saw him doing that in a 13 SV today

[alpine wraith]

for prophet i mean

[tribal blade]

oh yeah true

[alpine wraith]

or maybe more even

[tribal blade]

it was a terrible comp for me yeah

[alpine wraith]

you had 0 buffs

[vale pine]

you did good damage with cooldowns, but fall off rly hard outside

[alpine wraith]

literally dummy sim LUL

[vale pine]

the problem is more like, others don't

and do more during cooldowns

[alpine wraith]

yea just play city of threads

we even get the special buff

[hollow patio]

Problem was i had older custom apl

xd

[tribal blade]

i'm happy though because when i did 12 DB for the first time when i just swapped to sin i did ~1.5 mil dps

[vale pine]

easy fix then

[wispy pebble]

Can someone confirm im not losing it with shadow tech being slower?

[vale pine]

its not slower

but

if you play a talent build without sht, you might notice energy more

[wispy pebble]

But the refund is visibly delayed for me... Maybe it's just dornogal. Ill try in garrison

[tribal blade]

yeah the downtime of trickster sub atm is pretty bad

in M+ build

i can feel the difference not having imp sht

but having so many uses of symbols helps a lot

[vale pine]

you also recharge/stack on downtime

whats nice

[alpine wraith]

are you not using this one?

[vale pine]

and you can skill tfd for slightly higher burst

[tribal blade]

yeah the downtime now is basically recharge time

[alpine wraith]

i do like tfd more

[tribal blade]

for your next go

[vale pine]

just hope they remove the 6 sec timer

i can dream

[alpine wraith]

actually might try this one

[tribal blade]

is this a no flag build?

[alpine wraith]

but well i dont really do m+ until after work so idk

[tribal blade]

or am i blind

[alpine wraith]

ah yea bit of a woops

[tribal blade]

haha!

[wispy pebble]

Tfd?

[vestal escarp]

[alpine wraith]

basically wm out

[tribal blade]

does it even out

[viscid ocean]

wait a second

[tribal blade]

the CP you lose from WM

[viscid ocean]

so u guys

[tribal blade]

you gain from 4 more seconds of dance

[viscid ocean]

wanna tell me

[alpine wraith]

you need like 1 proc every 5 mins for it to be almost equal

in st

[viscid ocean]

trickster is viable ?

[alpine wraith]

in aoe it is even better

[tribal blade]

that's pretty good

you can easily do that in M+

unless your tank chain pulls the entire dungeon

[alpine wraith]

that is why we asked koji to implement number # of first dance procs

even if tank chainpulls most of the time you can get some procs

also sub has the hidden charger things too

if there is rp just rip SoDs

[tribal blade]

do you actually just vanish while the tank is chaining and hang back to proc it?

[alpine wraith]

possible

[light imp]

Question, this line is still on the wowhead guide, are we able to still manage to get off 3 Sectecs without Dust giving us a second Sectec almost immediately

[tribal blade]

so long as you don't have rupture up

[alpine wraith]

nope no 3 sec techs anymore

[vestal escarp]

I would also drop replicating, without finality and darkbrew i cant be arsed to take half a minute to spread ruptures

[alpine wraith]

you only do ruptures after burst tho

[tribal blade]

honestly thank god, triple dancing back to back was kinda cursed gamplay

[alpine wraith]

it is good to get more value

[tribal blade]

oh is rupture spreading now less value in keys?

enough where you don't want to spread as aggressively as before

before cds

[alpine wraith]

for trickster and because of how charger works kinda

there are many times where you can use SoD to get charger on the next pull

you dont want to krangle those with rupture

so you would strike dance SoD sec tech

then you have 3 empowered evis

one of those being coup possibly

that is also where first dance gets a bit strong

[tribal blade]

mm i see what you mean

[candid mural]

So supercharger combo points stack higher than 2?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[near rivet]

are we trying to have a supercharged coup all the time, or we dont llay around it at all?

[candid mural]

Nice

[alpine wraith]

you can have a max of 7

[alpine wraith]

sometimes you can make it line up

[vestal escarp]

Are you auggesting to pop sods and sit on supercharged cps?

[alpine wraith]

as sec tech then coup

[vestal escarp]

I dont get it

[alpine wraith]

you dont sit on them because you are running to the next pack

[vale pine]

we don't get 3 secrets, i probably forgot to re-write it

[candid mural]

Also works pre pull in raid i guess?

[alpine wraith]

only 2 chargers for raid

[vestal escarp]

As a soon as you get in combat you wanna use them also using sods earlier than pack would lose you uptime in fight, or am i missing something

[alpine wraith]

for dungeons i still havent heard back from people i told to check if you can get 7 chargers before m+ opens

[candid mural]

Thx for clearing that up

[alpine wraith]

you dont use them before a pack blindly you just use it when there is rp or a way before next pack

[near rivet]

first thing after logging in is to dump all sod charges whenever you are standing

[light imp]

all good, just wanted to be sure, you do enough for us rogues

[near rivet]

so you get all charges back when doing something

i believe sod doesnt reset cd on boss reset/key start

[alpine wraith]

it does not

[fair stump]

Maybe I am colorblind but I don't see pink...

[wise escarp]

can someone explain the blasphemite gems?

X effect per unique Algari gem colour
does that mean it's encouraging you to use different coloured gems to have more unique ones or stick to the same gem everywhere?

[fair stump]

It doesn't work for raid, I'll assume it doesn't work for M+

[brazen talon]

so when the Boss is pulled we lose the stacks ?

[alpine wraith]

you only save up to 2

[placid crown]

what do u see ?

[wise escarp]

its a very red pink

[flint umbra]

you guys liking sub rn?

is it doing better?

[umbral apex]

Haven’t raided yet but trickster is feeling realllyyy nice in m+ and pvp

[short radish]

it does but it also doesnt matter

[flint umbra]

ayyyy thats nice

[short radish]

you can sim yourself to see if its worth

but its probably not

[flint umbra]

whats making it feel so much better

i heard nimble flurry is hitting hard

[fair stump]

... What? Trickster on pvp?

[placid crown]

Actually i wanted a very pink red

[umbral apex]

It is. And the symbols stack + supercharged ER feel good to play around

[near rivet]

soo

[flint umbra]

how is the rotation going

[near rivet]

assa gets a random aura nerf on weekly tuning and sub takes over?

[flint umbra]

using multiple symbols at a time?

how many

also is the damage outside of burst better?

[umbral apex]

Can’t really speak on DS but I just started (seriously) pvp’ing for the illusion at 1950 and I went from 13.3-1.8 almost one shorting people with Coup/DfA during the opener

[sinful prairie]

Hey, has the Rogue spec changed much since Shadowlands?

[flint umbra]

wish coup did damage

feels like it should nuke

but its not really doing much

[alpine wraith]

it does quite a bit

just split in 6 parts

[umbral apex]

It does a lot of dam

[flint umbra]

since when?

did they just buff it?

[alpine wraith]

not really just it is an evis with12 cps

[slate nest]

kush plays sub currently which feels weird to see

[flint umbra]

pretty cool to see you guys happy

was a channel filled with apathy before

[nimble burrow]

i have a question, does Sub can also play Trickster and Deathstalker with nothing very weird?

[slate nest]

is sub good now actually?

[flint umbra]

seems the mm hunter channel is the replacement for being miserable currently

[nimble burrow]

like Trickster Law need to get KS and only can play for HO, FB Sin is hard to get 7 coins

[light imp]

so if i understand it correctly, we nolonger have to line up our combo points with whichever CP has the effects for supercharge, it now just acts like a counter? so send max CP finishers and be aware of supercharge for sec tec and Coup?

[slate nest]

can someone drop a talent tree?

[flint umbra]

so dark brew isnt a thing anymore?

kinda liked it

[slate nest]

do I really give up subterfuge and second vanish for supercharger and ER?

I mean we no longer get cdr from vanish so i guess

[molten citrus]

Correct no more mini game

[shell bramble]

!fun

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

yea second vanish is dead

[molten citrus]

Check wowhead

Should have .5 builds

[alpine wraith]

st one has not changed apart from class tree

m+ one is still uncertain because first dance can be really powerful

[flint umbra]

damn yeah rip dark brew

[alpine wraith]

and some people hate tornado too

[flint umbra]

i liked the shadow damage stuff 😦

[flint umbra]

why? that ability is great

[alpine wraith]

is it?

[light imp]

subter wasnt all that good iirc especially now that we instantly get SnD so there's no need for extra shadowstrikes for CP to get us rolling

i love tornado

4 free Evicerates?

[alpine wraith]

you have to use tornado outside cds

[slate nest]

Wait on wowhead we don't use first dance which is weird for me

After the changes

[alpine wraith]

so it is actually 4 ruptures

i mean first dance is not as easy to put into play

so it is safe to not recommend unless you know how it works

i will recommend it because i know my people are blasters for sure

there eventually will be a toggle for # of first dance procs in x time frame

that you can tweak if koji manages to implement it

[light imp]

who says that? shadowstrike damage is minimal. pop tornado before CDs, and get 3 Evicerates and a sectec on the first 4 GCDs of SD. i can't see how that's not an optinal way of using tornado in M+

[slate nest]

So, is sub actually a meaningful pick now?

I heard assa got bad

but idk if true

[alpine wraith]

problem with tornado before cds is you say goodbye to your shadowcraft cps

or you use SoD later that is also badge

assa got buffed it is stronger

[vale pine]

[link](<https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/subtlety/trickster/DANEVVFRRRUVZggVDUQQOVERUQVEVUUQWhUBQEFVVUCAQ)
CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM2mBAAAAAgZZMWmGzYmxwYMDzMzMjxsNMzYbbmZMzMjBjlZbAAAAYGMAGzmhBGYW0CtYDG

[light imp]

but we're talking a minimal loss in an aoe pull where storm would give max CP anyways

[slate nest]

thank you fuu ❤️

[alpine wraith]

if storm would give max cp and you have no blades it is outside cds

that is where you would use tornado

literally when it is meant to be used

i dont mind using it because i know where to use it but some people get dizzy

[raw violet]

Hi, just one question... do I need some haste for m+ (since no shadow focus)?

[alpine wraith]

nope haste is whatever

[raw violet]

Thanks, what a relief 🙂

[light imp]

ok i just cant see how getting 4 finishers in 4 GCDs buffed with blades, mastery, and SoD is ever bad

[alpine wraith]

it is bad because you make blades useless

or you can make tornado useful afterwards

[near rivet]

is there a way to track how many seeconds left until i get tFD?

[alpine wraith]

what do you think is stronger

[alpine wraith]

there is a buff

[near rivet]

or some bootleg out of combat timer?

[alpine wraith]

that ticks to 0

[near rivet]

oh, nice

[alpine wraith]

you can use that one as an aura

[light imp]

how is it making blades useless when you get more finishers off than otherwise. even if the 20% blade bonus doesnt cleave with nimble

[near rivet]

./wa -> /say DO NOT PULL IN [] SECONDS

kek

[raw violet]

worse than assa and "I need to restealth" xD

[near rivet]

you can play around some chainpulls with restealth

this one is rip

[hazy breach]

Youre not striking if you tornado

And rotten strikes cleave real hard

[final cedar]

Subtlety is super strong right now??? It's strong in Mythic+ and in raids, what's going on???

[hazy breach]

Esp during blades where youre not "losing" cp by doing it compared to nonblades

[slate nest]

Wait quick question

They fixed Nimble Flurry?

on trickster?

[final cedar]

nope nothing

[hazy breach]

Nimble is 50% yes

[near rivet]

wat

[slate nest]

WOOOHOOOO

[final cedar]

what?

[light imp]

apparently it was never "broken" afaik it doesnt cleave shadowed finishers which is what causes the confusion

[lilac stag]

Thankfully blozzard fixed it

[alpine wraith]

it was not bugged it seems only out of instance shittery as always

[hazy breach]

It doesnt cleave shadow and it doesnt work with fazed

[alpine wraith]

or blades or sec tech

unlucky

[hazy breach]

In open world its still 40%

[alpine wraith]

actually i forgot to check if goremaw cleaves

[hazy breach]

Thats where the confusion came from mostly

[lilac stag]

You’re fired

[near rivet]

how the fuck there is different scaling for world and instance content

[hazy breach]

But in instanced content its 50% (-fazed not working)

[alpine wraith]

can confirm sepsis wont ever cleave now tho

[prisma stump]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[sacred yarrow]

always has

[hazy breach]

So mostly 47.33%

[lilac stag]

can confirm ER won’t cleave either

[alpine wraith]

a bit more if target has fw but yea we dont have that one a lot

[near rivet]

give me other example

[alpine wraith]

it does if you talent it

but who would

[near rivet]

im uninformed pleb

[final cedar]

@vale pine Is the rotation with the recent changes just what’s on the Wowhead guide? I want to dive deeper. Is there a place where I can see the updated APL?

[hazy breach]

Blades is also lower for some reason

[slate nest]

Okay, so everything works as intended, how much better is sub compared to sin now? I guess we are still worse than sin right? Or am I completely wrong?

[lilac stag]

You missed the it’s gone joke. I’m off my game.

[hazy breach]

Wowhead is updated and you can just sim

[hazy breach]

Sin should still be way ahead in m+

[near rivet]

10/10 game

[wise escarp]

Ok thanks

[wise escarp]

Yeah it's so tiny anyway. I guess we get them for the main stat rather

[slate nest]

Okay, Im gonna ask like this, is sub still a troll pick or nah?

[alpine wraith]

nope goremaw still does not cleave

[short radish]

yeah stats don't really much but 0.15% crit damage is so small

[lilac stag]

Get the speed gem

[sacred yarrow]

maybe i misunderstood you but like any instanced content is scaled? ahhh i did misunderstand, you say scaled as to your character I assumed scaled as base launch difficulty. my bad.

[shy ermine]

imp shadow techniques is 4.5k better than replicating for me in patchwerk

[hazy breach]

Idk theres no good reason why nimble should be cleaving 25% less in dornogal or Isle or dorn than inside dungeons

[hazy breach]

Then run it

Its close anyway

[alpine wraith]

if you want to take replicating off PE should be better or WM

than improv tech

[hazy breach]

Tfd/gloom/rs/imp sht all sim very close

[lilac stag]

try them on a dummy. See which feels smoother. It’s close but RS can refund some cps

You don’t need the energy

[hazy breach]

Because theyre all kinda unimpactful

(yes tfd only works on literally the first dance, theres no reset in the sim)

[shy ermine]

the rs bug makes me irrationally angry

but probably trolling to not play it on court

[lilac stag]

just play it everywhere

[near rivet]

@alpine wraith what is the highest DM stack count you reached with TFD?

[hazy breach]

Surprisingly not really. The bosses hitboxes are kinda fucked and its hard for rs to cleave

It def wasnt worth before but now that its not a loss its prob worth

[alpine wraith]

you still dont really play around DM

[near rivet]

i imagine you tried anyway

[vale pine]

#1065728795455266888 message

[alpine wraith]

well you can get to 8 with stab and storm and bp

but i dont think it is worth

[near rivet]

shiv mid dance

kek

[real panther]

SO! Superchargor or tea guys

[alpine wraith]

charger

[hazy breach]

Its not even close

[pliant arrow]

Does the tanaris tw world bosses take increase dmg or something? Cause why did my non-crit Sectec hit doomwalker for almost 400 mill?

[hazy breach]

If you want tea youd drop cb, not supercharger

[fossil gyro]

Just got Transmitter in Vault anyone got a suggestion for a WA that shows the event?

[real panther]

and echo and induction are aprox same outcome or is there a boosted option?

[hazy breach]

Echo stinks

[real panther]

ok

[hazy breach]

It only procs on backstab

So you miss out on casts in dance since you want to strike

And it doesnt do enough damage to warrant swapping to a backstab either

Its just bad

[umbral shell]

With trickster, there is no more "naked symbols" with death perception talented ?

[real panther]

true

[alpine wraith]

ok just confirmed you only keep 2 chargers before key in m+

even if you had 7

[real panther]

yeah i just tried on rashan... x) lolable

[keen dome]

Kinda digging the new Sub stuff in heroic content

[graceful crown]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wise escarp]

for sure, I guess I could make a nice speed set for my druid at least, with the other one. And just socket a million different gems

[short radish]

im zoomin

[short radish]

my speed set

[pliant arrow]

Anyone with atrocity UI that knows how i can get my weakaura to show symbols charges?

[graceful crown]

why does trickster st raid build have replicating shadows?

[lilac stag]

It’s the best option of 4 meh talents

[graceful crown]

fair

[vale pine]

there is a new condition for it in the latest weakaura update

[hoary orchid]

great change to Flagellation, now my brain thinks it is on CD 100% of the time

the damn gray

[lilac stag]

Color tint it

[iron spear]

thank you, now I cant unsee it

Also, arent the builds on wowhead for raid single (trickster), raid cleave and raid councel all 100% the same?

[lilac stag]

That’s how we roll

[dry plank]

how far is dracthyr from top races? is it like 1-2%ish?

[lilac stag]

outlawsub

[sacred yarrow]

Make sure to only use Symbols of Death in Pandemic range casts
whats symbols pandemic timer? 30% full time so 3 secs?

[vale pine]

yes

less than 3 sec remaining

[tepid trellis]

okay i take back the flame i gave the flag icon, it actually fits perfectly with my WA's

[vale pine]

i still think it needs a bit of color

[sacred yarrow]

definitely

[lilac stag]

flag on cd without a timer. Bold move.

[golden totem]

Yeah that's decent

[sacred yarrow]

that edge shine being similar colour as the blade is off putting, somehow

[lilac stag]

It’s like someone found the noir filter on the art team

[umbral shell]

@vale pine With trickster, there is no more "naked symbols" with death perception talented ? I'm not sure to understand the logic with this new talent

[zenith vine]

whats the talent tree for First Dance in M+, do you drop replicating shadow and shuriken tornado for Veiltouched and First Dance?

[sacred yarrow]

they played shadows of doubt and were inspired to the max (turns noir filter on, calls it a day)

[vale pine]

can still happen on longer fights

[hoary orchid]

whats pandemic

[lilac stag]

!pandemic

[wicked jolt]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[sacred yarrow]

thank you moroes!

[hoary orchid]

ty

[vale pine]

basically, most dots/buffs can extend their duration by up to 30%, this is taken from the same active buff/dot

important detail is its 30% of the new applied spell

so if you cast something like slice and dice

[leaden prairie]

hello

[vale pine]

with lower combo points

its lower than on high ones

hey zac, whast up

[leaden prairie]

say i want to swap to sub for this last part of nw, what would be the best build now, and can current sub still burst higher than assa

its all funnel damage so idk if you just go full st

or trickster still

[alpine wraith]

trickster is best everything rn

[vestal escarp]

You go trickster and have same prio as OL

[alpine wraith]

you can just use the dungeon build too because it is almost the same as st

[vestal escarp]

Theres little point to spec nado or replicating anyway

[leaden prairie]

ye im not swapping for the prio, im swapping for the burst on third boss

we cant kill it with me as outlaw in 15

too hard

[vale pine]

sub can still burst well, would switch to trickster

this build bursts quite good

[sacred yarrow]

this is confusing as it sounds like DS is best but above its trickster. Is it the nuance of pure single target that differentiates it?

[alpine wraith]

deathstalker has some bugs

that make it worse st

[vale pine]

basically

both are equal

[hard wolf]

what are the bugs?

[vale pine]

they are within 1% dps

[hollow maple]

What are the bugs that make DS less viable?

[hard wolf]

DN randomly not working?

[vale pine]

deathstalkers mark refresh with DN up

[leaden prairie]

i see ty ty

[patent crystal]

do we really not play imp sht on single target?

[alpine wraith]

Dn not working with shadowed and cant spend deathstalker's mark while DN is up

[alpine wraith]

just remember to talent elu and other class tree talents too

i saw some weird things on that side

[leaden prairie]

yeye

[lilac stag]

We play RS

[vale pine]

^ considering the bug, but my main point for suggesting trickster would be

because its nicer to play

[onyx skiff]

I'm still getting used to things, should we be pooling Symbols/Dance charges for Flag/Blades to come back? it feels horrible to have a charge of Symbols but no Dance for 30 seconds, should I ever be in that situation?

[fair anchor]

Probably take TFD for RP before stitchflesh no ?

[vale pine]

deathstalker is very tight in timing

[placid elk]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

DS is flat out awful gameplay wise now

[vale pine]

exactly

its worse in gameplay

and does around the same damage

also you are more flexible with trickster

so trickster easy wins out

[stiff stirrup]

I just like spamming blackpowder tho

[lilac stag]

Trickster not perfect, but this is most enjoyable version of TWW. I still wish e we had dust but w/e

[spare oar]

Bois, is there a WA that disable the 1h tricks icon above my characters head?

[lilac stag]

Change your Evis icon to BP. Fixed.

[stiff stirrup]

Will the excel sheets be updated soon?

[sacred yarrow]

it feels like I'm playing high IQ spec again, the damage should feel more rewarding for the amount of effort you put with the timers/conditionals

[alpine wraith]

there are no sheets this time

[red vortex]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[alpine wraith]

although i did make all the boss videos

will have to make them again kekw

[lilac stag]

Why are they not up yet?

[sacred yarrow]

:whip:

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/shin-jimin-jimin-whip-whiplash-whipping-gif-13518810409625036297

[alpine wraith]

have to do the bosses