assassination

[craggy river]

I wanna play assas.. but I like M+ so I guess it's not viable?

[obtuse robin]

its viable just gotta work harder

[celest ruin]

it is, just get prepped to get kicked by people who think assa does 0 damage

[craggy river]

Is assa mostly raid?

[obtuse robin]

for the most part yea

[plush delta]

assa is perfectly fine for mid keys ~20. it's no hunter or warlock but easily capable of doing good damage. my last key was a 22 mists w/ ~20kdps overall

[drifting cosmos]

did you run with a hunter and lock?

[plush delta]

hunter and warr

[heady wagon]

was that venth or necro?

[ebon notch]

cev

[red atlas]

anyone got a WA that shows seconds left on bleeds and poisons?

[echo geyser]

plater maybe?

cev has a good profile for sin i heard

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[hexed kite]

"2 set: Shiv's debuff causes your bleeds and poisons against all targets within 15 yards to gain 40% damage for 9 seconds." Meaning the damage bonus applies to existing bleeds?

[normal mist]

Yes

[whole mason]

Is 2p bug fixed?

[hexed kite]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[hexed kite]

!finality

[strange python]

No. Afaik blizzard hasn't even commented on it yet

I know whispyr flagged it to blizz but idk if they ever replied to him or any other tcs

[hexed kite]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[noble umbra]

is it normla to be energy starved in the opener and waiting couple seconds for garrote?

[bleak sky]

yes

[ebon notch]

Use blood elf racial

It's bis for dry openers

That or a PI

[upper herald]

is sin considered a good target for PI?

[echo geyser]

not compared to wl

they gain about 50k dps

there are values in the pins #wow-general

PI that is

[upper herald]

thanks, our locks aren't the greatest, so was just curious

[drowsy hollow]

Why is Sin so fun in lower keys. I do great dps on trash but my boss damage is lacking

I like garroting 3-4 mobs in a trash pack and seeing the numbers fly

[bleak sky]

should be the other way around

[viscid spear]

[drowsy hollow]

For sin too?

[viscid spear]

[drowsy hollow]

I mean I like poisons, so if I'm doing something wrong I'd like to correct it before doing anything that real on rogue. 😄

only a baby 233 ilvl char

[short crow]

Assassination
Soulblade Shadowhide 4-piece set bonus now causes your Poisons and Bleeds to expire 50% faster when engaged in combat with enemy players (was 100%). thanks for the rogue nerf bliz

[vast loom]

its only on players

[bleak sky]

If you're getting value out of sin in lower dungeons I'm happy

But you should be doing good boss damage as well

[drowsy hollow]

I mean I'm not below tanks, but going from topping trash to third on bosses feels like I'm not carrying my weight

[manic walrus]

im gunna be learnig the new build for sin, how much haste is recommended so farm some gear? im at 5% at best lmfao

[bleak sky]

Welp, gotta fix it then

[bleak sky]

Sim your gear

Ignore stats

Run a droptimizer or something

[vast loom]

for sin keys its necrolord right?

[drowsy hollow]

Necrolord is definitely fun. I like all the combo points to spread ruptures

I think Venthyr if you need priority or boss damage

[drifting cosmos]

necro to pad overall

[vast loom]

why do keys if not to pad

[drowsy hollow]

Ask the sub rogues in mdi

[hexed kite]

!abb

[prisma monolith]

Rogue abbreviations: http://www.ravenholdt.net/rogue-abbreviations/

[heady wagon]

do most rogues doing m+ change their cov depending on the week? e.g venth for tyrannical, necro for fort? Or just stay their preferred cov for both weeks?

[drifting cloud]

going purely on feelcraft Id guess venth 90% of the time is correct choice

[manic walrus]

the assassination wowhead guide is up to date with the new sims damage correct?

[glass tulip]

booty you better learn to play the real spec

sub rat

[brazen zodiac]

never

never conform

[mortal pike]

sat for andy

[glass tulip]

thats more like a

[mortal pike]

I like to game tho

GAME TIMEEE

[manic walrus]

when ur a master on 1 thing u need to learn something else knah mean

[glass tulip]

🧢

but theoretically, sure

[obtuse robin]

any vault experts can tell me if i do all normal raid vaults with m+ do i get to choose 6 tokens?

[exotic rose]

you get to choose one of the six available items (not necessarily tier tokens)

assuming you did 10 bosses and 8 m+ to have 6 options

[obtuse robin]

brother

[vast loom]

i think he means the stuff to turn in

[obtuse robin]

the tokens for sockets

[vast loom]

yeah

those thingys

[exotic rose]

👍🏼

[glass tulip]

@obtuse robin you get 2 tokens per slot, no matter the level of things inside

[exotic rose]

full raid should be enough

[obtuse robin]

ok nice

[glass tulip]

max of 6

[vestal wren]

haha ye, we did push the profiles sunday :). Herodamage update soon too 🙂

[errant viper]

Are there any Weak Auras you guys would recommend that correctly tell you the pandemic timer for bleeds, even with Vendetta + 4 piece? I think Luxthos and Afenar haven't been updated, right?

[solid venture]

Search 'ceverion' on wago

[torn atlas]

Cev has WA also 👀

[glass tulip]

its a modified afenar

[gusty mirage]

https://wago.io/rk2kEs76d

[torn atlas]

yeah that works

[gusty mirage]

atrocity's will have it soonish

[glass tulip]

ye, have been bug testing

after I get out of crafting jail I have another round to do

[torn atlas]

Much easier than updating my personal WA that I've been too lazy to do.

[rancid spade]

since when sin swapped to vent?

[glass tulip]

few weeks ago

oldest pin in the channel I believe was the start of it

[rancid spade]

good to know

[potent dagger]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[thin imp]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[limber lion]

Shiv increases all poison/bleed damage, which means all the existing bleeds and any bleeds you reapply during it.

[glass tulip]

anyone know how to hide elvui bars

like just show on hover or something, idrk how it works

[limber lion]

What bars

[glass tulip]

just like regular old action bars

[old thistle]

mouse over

[old thistle]

if you want to hover , select each bar on action bars and then tick mouseover

[glass tulip]

oh I see

👏 ty pal

[old thistle]

elvui has an extra plug in that allows bars to fade in combat but i dont see why you want that.

[dense herald]

Going in to a mass aoe pack in m+ as assass, how would that look? Any tldr examples of an opener?

[glass tulip]

garrote garrote garrote garrote rupture

fok til you can cast a max CT

then just throw out as many garrotes/ruptures as you can while maintaining CT

or dump envenoms into a prio target

[dense herald]

if theyre not gonna live long enough for rupture to do its thing, is it ever worth spamming CT for the initial dam?

and also where would you chuck shiv in there

[glass tulip]

I dont remember how many it is exactly, but you dont spam ct unless its like 20 mobs... i.e. never

I just kind of shiv wherever, not sure if there is a "correct" answer for m+

while you are have bleeds on multiple targets I would say, bc then they all get buffed by the shiv

[limber lion]

https://tenor.com/view/actually-bored-ackchyually-gif-14423655

You want to just do gar gar gar gar ct to get ct rolling asap when opening on a pack, which is when you can slam a shiv in as well.

Ans no, never spam CT honestly. If targets are dying you would press Envenom instead.

[native belfry]

Won’t you end up sitting without energy in this case?

[zinc frost]

Why would you be without energy?

[limber lion]

?

Those 4 garrotes give you energy saturation already pretty much

[native belfry]

🤔 Dunno actually, but when I played sin m+ last season it felt awkward af even with vigor to not cast rupture initially

Didn’t play it this season, maybe with increased haste numbers it’s easier

[iron orchid]

i play with mfd, and basic setup as cev mentions is enough to set you up in a pack

you'd then try and get a few ruptures in

[lunar otter]

just heard we getin nerfed tomorrow

[zinc frost]

Pvp only

[iron orchid]

pvp

[lunar otter]

thank god

[regal cloud]

Well deserved tbh

[lunar otter]

but its the only way i can get a kill in pvp

[regal cloud]

Lol wth even with the nerf you can 100/0 in 2sec

[limber lion]

That is the rotation that we have been playing since CN in m+, so it should definitely feel fine, especially at current gear levels.

One thing to note is that Garrote does not apply poisons by itself, and you need a bleed (gar/rup) and poisons on a target to benefit from Venomous Wounds. The CT here helps to spread the poisons to everything, followed up by FoK.

[fathom flax]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[fathom flax]

272 phial / 278 cache is pretty decent right

I am transitioning from kyrian sub to venth ass and just wanna see how much I need to fuck about with my gear

[limber lion]

Yeh it's good

[fathom flax]

Just the person I was hoping would reply

[limber lion]

Just sim yourself with different rings, neck, trinkets, gems and enchants

Should be gucci

[fathom flax]

Oh yeah yeah I know I’m all over that

[limber lion]

Go get em king

Good stuff

[fathom flax]

It’s just good to have the trinkets locked in

[strange silo]

Wtf happened with cache? it sims out of nowhere way better then m first sigil

[limber lion]

It's oversimming a bit because of some things. M first Sigil is most likely the better choice.

Koji is looking to get it fixed soon

[fathom flax]

First sigil also doesn’t require its own weakaura

Which is always nice for a trinket

[strange silo]

Ah ok ok yea sigil feels better its nice to have the big number for 1 or 2 vendetta and i just checked with 6 min fight time and then sigil outsims again

[glass tulip]

mine is only +21 for 6 minutes

still better than the -126 for 5 minutes though lol

[indigo mulch]

Imagian gettibg sigil =c

It sims low for me so ill never get it since aome classes it sims like 300dps =(

[glass tulip]

eventually bro, just pull it from vault

[indigo mulch]

Im 4times socket boi =c

In a row

[glass tulip]

your bad luck has prepared you for today

[indigo mulch]

Eu so tomorrow!

Im still rocking 252 tier gloves

And no tier head yet

[rotund oak]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[rotund oak]

278 coming ur side brother 🙏

[indigo mulch]

[steel ridge]

and it fucking slaps

[shadow helm]

assa best spec no cap?

[vestal wren]

best spec in what?

it is good in raid, m+ i would give to subtlety

pvp, i am not sure but sub is usually good in pvp

[steel ridge]

it just got nerfed in pvp because apparently it slapped hard enough

[vestal wren]

somewhat expected

the tier set is quite good

[steel ridge]

been waiting for that nerf since they announced the setbonus tbh

i am more suprised they didnt tune it differently for pvp to begin with

[fathom flax]

If I can drop 2-3 more bits of Vers gear I’ll make the jump back to ass

My home, my heart

[void needle]

Hey guys, could someone help me with a simming problem I'm having? I've just checked droptomiser and top gear and droptomiser is saying that IDO is an upgrade, but when I put it in top gear it comes back as a downgrade. Why might this be? I had a look over the sim settings and I think they're the same.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fgQ53DXiAFEiZ3M2LJg5Y4
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hC98GFQv4BoWcgPv8u3Hz6

[limber lion]

That is indeed pretty weird. However if you look at the actual numbers between Top Gear and Droptimizer, you can see that with IDO you're doing around 14 860 on both sims

That would suggest that something is buffing the Earthbreaker trinket instead.

But doesn't look like you have any custom apl to make Earthbreakers use fractures better or anything

Kinda odd

[fathom flax]

I’m my non professional opinion Get the phial instead and run phial/totem ST and earthbreakers Multi target

[limber lion]

I would recommend that you do the Top Gear sim again, but use Nightly instead of Weekly

Might not do anything, but it's worth a shot

[void needle]

I'll give it a look now

Yeah same result, EB is simming higher still.

[limber lion]

Yeah, I think it makes sense that EB sims higher, but it's weird how it's showing a different result in Droptimizer

[spare crow]

Ceverion may i ask why you decided to use well placed steel

against dausegne?

instead of lethal poisons

[subtle tundra]

cause... wps bis?

[limber lion]

Because WPS sims higher for me

@void needle

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/29BEcxWhXX5WHHGHrZarge

I simmed your Droptimizer again and IDO is no longer simming the highest

[ebon notch]

cev this new raidbots update for creation catalyst shit is cool af

[fathom flax]

@limber lion down the line would you swap unity off your beavers

Also bracers?

[ebon notch]

beavers

[fathom flax]

Auto correct doing me dirty tonight

[limber lion]

Yeah eventually probably yeah

My other pair of wrists are 265 wrists without a socket

So wrists sim the highest for me

[fathom flax]

Triple 285 tier with unity helm for 100% hole chance

[limber lion]

but if I can find 278 wrists with a socket then probs will need to swapperino

Nah, the legs are the biggest upgrade probably.

Bis profile uses 291 legs

[fathom flax]

Surprised they haven’t put in a way to get sockets besides vault

10k flux for a socket, done

[limber lion]

Vault socket is great

Best way to get a socket

Less weeks of going dry, no necessary rep grind

[oak sky]

^

[fathom flax]

Oh yeah big fan, just wouldn’t mind it as I haven’t had a useless vault

[ebon notch]

im so used to going in dry

[fathom flax]

“Yet”

[ebon notch]

i dont have the right sheesh emote ffs

[frigid sleet]

it seems to be caused by the trinket order

maybe the APL make you run to get the EI node during vendetta so it sim lower if you have it in first slot

[limber lion]

Oh, nevermind I'm dumb

Yeah you're absolutely right

@frigid sleet is absolutely right. Your Top Gear has SGT as your first trinket, but in the Droptimizer it's swapped.

[frigid sleet]

it's actually a pretty big difference

[limber lion]

It's very important to take note of trinket-order in sims.

Thank you @frigid sleet !

good shout

[frigid sleet]

never really thought about it tbh

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[late birch]

!cache

[drifting forge]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cg3iS74svyoH163HP6vTqg

Day 200 no 278 weapon

Guess I just gotta commit the mega valor to get 272 tomorrow

[steel ridge]

cries in 14k

[rapid prism]

for the venthyr bleed build do we hold flag/mfd so it lines up with vandetta? Any rules on holding cds that i should know? Gunna try this build tonight

[steel ridge]

you always line up those 3

[rapid prism]

even if holding one for 20s or more?

[limber lion]

other way around - you hold vendetta

[steel ridge]

that shouldnt be the case if you play correctly

[rapid prism]

ok that makes sense

[steel ridge]

its most likely like 5-10 seconds that you are holding

[hollow escarp]

on bosses with potential resets you want to pay attention on flag cd before pressing mfd

I messed up a lot on sausage

[rapid prism]

so always mfd with flag if vandetta isnt up. and hold vandetta for mfd/flag off cd?

[hollow escarp]

[rapid prism]

i have no idea about timings so im just gunna have to feel it oujt and hope i am not garbage lol

[steel ridge]

i feel this

[hollow escarp]

you have vendetta and flag both roughly every minute

[rapid prism]

do you ever find yourself holding vandetta/flag for mfd?

or do you not use mfd if vandetta/flag is coming up

[hollow escarp]

as Cev said earlier

you hold vendetta for flag

and mfd should line up

[void needle]

How strange, did you change anything from the default settings?

[hollow escarp]

since you have one every 30 sec

[rapid prism]

ty

[limber lion]

Read the discussion below

#assassination message @void needle

[rapid prism]

worst case scenario i fuck up with MFD cooldown and have 20s to wait while vandetta/flag are ready to go. am i better off holding for mfd?

[hollow escarp]

at that point you hope it's a wipe

[rapid prism]

hahaha ok gotcha. i fucked up. gg parse

[limber lion]

No, you send Vend/Flag together on cd

Fucking up your MFD is ripperino pepperino, but holding your Vend/Flag is omegaripperinokekkerino

So don't do that

[rapid prism]

kk ty Cev

[hollow escarp]

yeah, it's up every minute

[steel ridge]

😄

[limber lion]

Honestly just press MFD with Flag

[hollow escarp]

wasting 20s of cd is worse

[limber lion]

Then once in between

Don't worry about resets for now

You can start sniping resets when you're super comfortable with the timers, syncing and whatnot

No point going for a potential 20 dps increase just to mess it up and lose hundreds of dps instead

[rapid prism]

what WA do you guys use for watching flag stacks and timer to snapshot the haste at the end of flag?

[limber lion]

You don't need anything like that

whatsoever

[rapid prism]

ok

[limber lion]

The only thing you need to track

is Vendetta

[hollow escarp]

afenar tracks flag stacks if you need that

[limber lion]

Vendetta < 3s, reapply bleeds

[hollow escarp]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[limber lion]

ez

[void needle]

Oh, so trinket order has some effect on the sim? Is it just which trinket it prioritises?

[limber lion]

Yes, the sim always uses the first trinket first

It does matter quite a bit

[void needle]

Ahh, thanks for all your help. I'll keep an eye on that in the future then.

[vestal wren]

the reason the sim uses trinkets in order is that it is fairly easy to change trinkets in a simulation

[grave garden]

Hi guys, how big is the PI gain for venth assa with snapshotting flag?

[vestal wren]

while it is not easy to evaluate every possible combination to allow the trinket order to be more dynamic

[marble hemlock]

pi is actually quite awkward to use for assa with the snapshotting

as you typically run a macro that is tied to your cooldown cast, meaning youd get the PI ~1sec after casting vendetta, so the initial snapshot on casting vendetta would be without the PI haste

the alternative to that would be to get the PI before casting vendetta, but then it'd no longer be active when it runs out for the overhang snapshot

dunno if cev or koji did some comparisons on which way would be better for DPS

(i know that doesnt answer your question)

but it contributes to why its just not that big of a deal (not to mention that we would only have it every other set of CDs)

[ebon notch]

i simmed a few different timings

varying from on pull to 10s

and 5s seemed to gain the most

[brazen zodiac]

good morning

[ebon notch]

but it was all relatively close

[ebon notch]

gm

[brazen zodiac]

whats poppin

[limber lion]

Yeah, I've simmed it a few times and the winning combo is getting PI just before Vendetta each time. With optimal usage, it's around 1050 dps for our profile.

[marble hemlock]

hmye, would probably be awful to set up tho

[limber lion]

So there's still all the warlock specs, Fire Mage, Marksmanship Hunter and Unholy DK at least that got us beat

[marble hemlock]

if your priest is ramping and it takes 1-2secs

[limber lion]

Yep def

[marble hemlock]

youre just sitting there not using anything

[limber lion]

I would just personally macro Flagellation with the PI whisper

it's close enough

[marble hemlock]

well

[spice spire]

So lock mage and MM have us beat

[marble hemlock]

then the preist gets whispered

[iron orchid]

that's what i do

[marble hemlock]

twice as often

😄

when its still on cd

[iron orchid]

YEs

[spice spire]

UH more dead than my esteem this week

[limber lion]

Yeh that's true

[iron orchid]

love spamming

[strange python]

Did our PI value shoot up again? Seems like every patch now we start off with terrible PI values on the sheet that everyone tunnels, only to rise up mid patch

[marble hemlock]

thats one way to get your priest to hate you

[limber lion]

MRT cd trackers work well

so if you use those, you can just click it just before starting your burst

[limber lion]

Nah, we've been around 800-1000 since 9.2 pretty much

Just jumps around between those numbers a bit

[strange python]

Could've sworn that damn externals sheet has us much lower. Maybe remembering wrong

[limber lion]

Which is still a bit on the higher end, compared to something like Subtlety, Frost Mage, Fury and whatnot

[strange python]

I'm not planning to get PI ever. My guild hates parsing, even on deep farm when we're all gigabored.

[limber lion]

Each to their own

[strange python]

Hate it

[limber lion]

We focus on speedkills with our guild

Sometimes that means good personal parses, sometimes it means terrible personal parses

But it's still a lot of fun

[strange python]

We hyperfocus sales

[limber lion]

I wish we did sales

[strange python]

And then stuff 85% of it in gbanks

[limber lion]

I'm so poor. Sitting at like 100k gold, very poggers

[hollow escarp]

no buyers on your server though

[subtle tundra]

i wish that were me

[limber lion]

There definitely is

[strange python]

I mean, to an extent. But getting 150k per sylv mount during 9.1 while the bank takes 85% and is sitting on 200m gold is cringe

[hollow escarp]

there sure are some

[limber lion]

But our guild still don't do em

[hollow escarp]

but there's also a lot of sellers

[limber lion]

Korruptio is doing a good bunch of boosts

[hollow escarp]

so need to get buyers from other servers

[limber lion]

Yep

[strange python]

I fucking hate the guild hunt though

Who is mights rogue 👀👀👀

[limber lion]

no clue

[strange python]

Wish it was easier to put feelers out without losing a current spot

[mental dirge]

Is it normal to not get 30 stacks on flag? Usually end up with 27-29

[brazen zodiac]

yeah

[manic harness]

I just saw the Wowhead Assassination ranking....wtf happened

When did Assassination get so good again?

[vestal wren]

anduin

[manic harness]

Is that all it is? Lol

[vestal wren]

i did write it in the sub article some weeks ago

you basically need 50 logs to have a fight on the statistic

[manic harness]

I saw that, but I thought the ranking represented more than one fight

[vestal wren]

anduin, lords and rygalon are now on it

[manic harness]

Ah

[vestal wren]

but assassination does not have a log on anduin

[subtle tundra]

[vestal wren]

so it gets excluded from the statistic for assassination

what means assassination ranking is based on 9/11 fights
while subtlety is based on 10/11 fights

[manic harness]

Including its worst one

[vestal wren]

and anduin is probaby the worse fight for rogue

[drowsy parcel]

There is a sin log on anduin now

[manic harness]

Fuu, how do you feel Assassination holds up to Sub overall?

[vestal wren]

there is?

oh wow, nice

well yes

95%tile from wowhead

95%tile now

place 8 -> 14

[iron orchid]

don't wowhead usually bring classwriters to comment on these rankings ?

this week there was no comment at all

[vestal wren]

they do, but not every week. Mostly did for the earlier weeks

this is why i was invited to write:

• why subtlety was so high very early in the tier (spoiler, sylvanas dagger)
• explain why subtlety will fall off when anduin/etc unlocks later on (when sub was still top spec on the graph)

[iron orchid]

I always prefer when there's someone to explain why specs go higher or lower, helps peole not looke at this kind of graph and think this spec is good or this one sucks

[iron orchid]

i read that iirc

[limber lion]

Yeah, Kayl did blast Anduin though. His parse is higher than the average Sub parse

[iron orchid]

Nice !

[vestal wren]

i mean overall sin/sub look very close in output

[spice spire]

Kayl the necrolord Sigma gamer

[rigid tartan]

He also provided some strong dps on the reflections in p2 also committed flag on them twice

[manic harness]

Sin may be more consistent though? That's big

[vestal wren]

so i would say thats presented decently well in the statistic

with them being within low margins of each other

btw. gz to anduin kill 👍

[dawn ivy]

yo is the 2pc bug still in?

been kinda waiting to play sin on jailer but the moment i went to try it out, the 2pc bug got pinned lmfao

[fluid eagle]

Do you have another sin rogue?

[dawn ivy]

yep

[fluid eagle]

then most likely is still bugged

[drowsy parcel]

thanks! took us 250 pulls

[vestal wren]

lords should be a quick kill now 🙂 (compared to halondrus/anduin)

[subtle tundra]

it was a 16 puller for us

[iron orchid]

go back to world first 29s bro

[subtle tundra]

meh almost got wf 30

we could've 😦

[iron orchid]

this would be huge

you'll get it

[ruby birch]

I wonder how many guilds will suddenly kill halondrus now actually

[subtle tundra]

like.. all

[dawn ivy]

halondrus is sub 100 pull now, kinda cringe

[vestal wren]

the nerf was quite big, so likely a lot

[ruby birch]

Yeah sucks

I liked the boss

Wanted to try sin on it in its prenerf iteration

[gritty flax]

shouldnt it be good that more people kill the boss? @dawn ivy

[ruby birch]

Takes away from the satisfaction that people had progging and killing a hard boss

[dawn ivy]

hell no that boss weas good

it was crazy diffuclt to prog, but fun

[gritty flax]

I mean sure but its not like the people who killed it pre nerf lost the satisfaction they did it before nerf

[dawn ivy]

cringe as fuck when they hard neuter a boss like that

yeah but now i dont get to reclear it like i originally did

now its boring

[ruby birch]

It's about flexing ultimately and also some guilds won't get to experience the same prog

[dawn ivy]

it would have been a fun fight to reclear every week

halondrus/ryg/LoD would be the only fights id be excited to reclear

[gritty flax]

well I just think of bosses like anduinn and jailer. Literally no guilds have killed them in comparison to last 2 bosses of previous tiers. Overtuned or dead game?

[dawn ivy]

100% anduin and jaler needed slaps

but they got small slaps

justified slaps

[ruby birch]

Halondrus needed nerfs too but

This was overkill

[dawn ivy]

small adjustments to damage and healing

but halondrus just got reworked my guy

like deadass reworked LOL

[ruby birch]

They changed beams, bombs and nerfed tf out of every mechanic and his health

[dawn ivy]

bombs are no longer going to be the focal point of the fight, and p3 is no longer a fun segmented-yet-coordinated fight

p3 was actually SO EXCITING

[ruby birch]

The missile nerf is insanely huge (makes intermissions much less scary), his health being reduced this much means you will never do a reclaim

And his passive damage has been nerfed too

[hybrid vale]

It’s good Andy got nerfed he’s been such a weakling throughout wows lore he shouldn’t be one of the hardest fights in mythic

[ruby birch]

Didn't he straight up mass brez an entire army

Idk if that's weak

[gritty flax]

I dont like castrating a boss for sure but at the same time why keep the boss a gatekeeper boss? Im not saying make mythic raiding accessible for more people but dont keep it tuned for highest of the high end mythic raiders?

[hybrid vale]

He got beat up by sylvanas in bfa

[ruby birch]

He did?

[hybrid vale]

Basically

He stood no chance

[ruby birch]

But she ran away

[dawn ivy]

they could have made it so touching a bomb with debuff doesnt one shot you, maybe just add an EXTRMEELY heavy dot that healers would have to focus on you

and that would have allowed the fight to be still bomb focused but not insta wipe you

[hybrid vale]

He couldn’t protect Azeroth as a kid and he sat there thru all the invasions as acting king

[dawn ivy]

also could have made it so not all 20 people get missles

[hybrid vale]

He’s a little booger

He stood by as onyxia herself was disguised next to him in storm wind in classic wow

[gritty flax]

@hybrid vale this is what youd call character building. The pacifist child having to take up his warrior/leader fathers role when hes not ready. Idk if blizz has been doing a good job with it or not but anduinn can take the story somewhere as of right now even though hes a booger

[fervent beacon]

So is sin actually decent spot not?

[ruby birch]

Yes

[gritty flax]

@dawn ivy true that wouldve made it more forgiving. This is why people should just dump their suggestions to blizzard no matter what it is

[ruby birch]

Sin is very strong

[hybrid vale]

I’m just glad he’s not a good boss

Assa been strong for a minute now

[gritty flax]

its always been good ST but its aoe was always whatever bc of the cap since other classes would just burst harder then your bleeds can damage

[hybrid vale]

Halandros and sko my fav fights to shred

[gritty flax]

fuck me if I try to multi dot when a warrior had cds up

[hybrid vale]

I mean aoe is still whatever

[fervent beacon]

What about key, is it still little weaker than sub there?

[hybrid vale]

We cleave and aoe

I mean cleave and single target well

Aoe still lacking

[dawn ivy]

quite a bit worse

[strange python]

Terrible to play with relics bringing you out of stealth

Lol

[fervent beacon]

so I may as well just go sub for fort week, sin on tyrannical week since other classes can melt trash

[gritty flax]

aoe is good with necrolord but big ST loss not being venthyr

[dawn ivy]

i think sub is just better in m+ regardless of week tbh

[ruby birch]

You can play sin any week but it will be considerably worse than sub in any key

[hybrid vale]

The longer things live, the better assa is, are we kinda clear on that

[gritty flax]

@dawn ivy yeah but who doesnt want to be a chad assassin?

[dawn ivy]

anyone who wants to be invited to keys due to stigma of not being the correct spec

[hybrid vale]

Survival hunter shreds on short and long living targets, great aoe class

[gritty flax]

pfffft I see sin rogues doing high 20s still people are just lame is all

[ruby birch]

I mean sin is better than law at least

Kek

[hybrid vale]

Well law so much sucks it’s not even considered

[dawn ivy]

everyone pray for outlaw to be reworked to being a ranged spec 🙏

[hybrid vale]

If it’s not assa or sub, it’s diff class for you

[dawn ivy]

not that it will be good, but so its meme status ascends into the heavens even further

[hybrid vale]

I pray it goes back to combat

I don’t mind redundancy

Feel like they made law a whole new entity from rogue because combat overlapped with the other 2 specs

[solemn kettle]

straight up want Wrath combat back

[hybrid vale]

Or what they wanted to do with the other 2 and combat were too similar

[gritty flax]

theres nothing wrong with having a spec thats a hybrid of the other 2 tbh. Mix of heavy hits/aoe/dots sounds like a fun class to me

[hybrid vale]

And it was

[ruby birch]

What

Outlaw is literally just a combat reskin

[hybrid vale]

This was the last iteration of combat before they changed I think

[solemn kettle]

not sure why or how they decided to bring pistols and RtB to combat/outlaw... the game designer behind that shit needs to fired

[ruby birch]

Going back to combat changed nothing but spell names and icons

[solemn kettle]

you're delusional if you think outlaw today is the same as combat was...

[ruby birch]

All rogues got a unique throwing skill that generated cp

[gritty flax]

na combat was different

[hybrid vale]

Saved me from typing a response

[ruby birch]

Clearly it's diff now

What I'm saying is when they turned WOD combat to legion outlaw

Not that much changed lol

[gritty flax]

they took some abilities from combat and renamed a few others but it is different from combat

roll the bones being the biggest example

[ruby birch]

If you wanna go back to wrath, not a single class is the same

[solemn kettle]

well to give full disclosure, i skipped panda land through legion and 95% of bfa

[gritty flax]

grapple hook is different but similar to shadowstep ig

[solemn kettle]

sad i missed legion

[hybrid vale]

It’s really not the same

[solemn kettle]

but came back to my combat rogue.... the fuck is this outlaw/pistol/RtB shit show

[vestal wren]

i think outlaw is a better iteration of combat

subtlery also had better iterations after legion, i did like dfa the most

[ruby birch]

Isn't the general consensus that outlaw is better

[solemn kettle]

so tried forcing outlaw for 9.0/9.1.... i'm sin now... thanks blizz.. played outlaw/hemo pvp from vanilla through cata....

[hybrid vale]

I liked the little artifact burst from sub

[vestal wren]

i never played assassination before legion, so can't say a lot about it

[ruby birch]

I'm confused as to why people want combat rogue back

[vestal wren]

but assassination did not change significantly from legion to now

[gritty flax]

you can make that argument but like you can use that for anything doesn't really change what we're talking about

[hybrid vale]

A lot of ppl like current demo but a lot of ppl miss meta demo

[ruby birch]

Yeah but wrath classes wouldn't hold up in the current game

[hybrid vale]

It’s that with things that get scraped for internal reasons

And not by popular choice

[vestal wren]

meta was removed to be part of the new hero class

[gritty flax]

I feel like wrath disc priest would do pretty well in the current game

[vestal wren]

for what its worth, i hope that blizz will make specs more unique in 10.0

[hybrid vale]

I like d priest, it just has no place when holy priest does more dmg and hps lol

[vestal wren]

because with the talent rework, they can also reduce options from classes that are to good at everything

[ruby birch]

Meta was given to DH to become the worst cd in the game

[ruby birch]

Mitigation

[gritty flax]

^

[solemn kettle]

oh man.. wrath combat would fucking own the M+ right now... only thing really missing would be shroud

[ruby birch]

It would not own the m+ rn

[hybrid vale]

It’s still not that good of a healer, holy is much stronger

[ruby birch]

I'll guarantee you that

[sand sigil]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[solemn kettle]

back in the day you could glyph FoK for an aoe interrupt and the dmg was off the charts in aoe with BF

[gritty flax]

ahh yeah I forgot about that

[hybrid vale]

But that’s an aside, I like the d priest way of healing now. Perhaps I don’t like power word radiance for

[solemn kettle]

un capped, just fucking insane

[gritty flax]

cant imagine aoe interrupt on fok rn

busted

[red atlas]

is it a huge dps loss on ST to play with vigor instead of MFD, i know you use MFD to use it with Flagg but just wondering

[hybrid vale]

Ya

Vigor isn’t the move at all

[gritty flax]

MFD is too much fun also. At least I think so

[solemn kettle]

question on MDF.. does it really work on long boss fights where it eats the full 1 min CD?

[hybrid vale]

Well the other 2 are passive so I’d imagine so

Ya man, you use for big daddy venthyr

[gritty flax]

on sin MFD is 30 seconds though

[hybrid vale]

Ya and godly

You can use it on a nearby rat for a reset

There’s a map of all the creatures in the 9.2 raid where you can score easy resets with MFD somewhere

[gritty flax]

that reminds me, need to make a mouse over for my MFD. Handicapped If I dont

[vast loom]

for Vault what should i value more, creation catalyst upgrades or other slots? right now i have similar upgrades between replacing a heroic tier with mythic tier (CC) and a 278 crit haste neck, sim says take both lol but they both give similar upgrades

[hybrid vale]

You should be going for the 4 set buddy

[vast loom]

i have 4 set

[hybrid vale]

Listen to sim then

[past bobcat]

Is there a WA for gems?

[high berry]

Do you guys feel energy starved without vigor? What’s your haste at ?

[dawn ivy]

tier gives back so much energy it evens out

but yeah its got its highs and lows

[rapid prism]

dusk or zodlyk leggo for M+?

[hollow river]

Dusk if you have 4p

[wide ridge]

I know what i have to do but i don't know if i have the strength to

[dawn ivy]

for the transmog

[slow marsh]

wrist tmoggers

[brazen zodiac]

lul

[unborn ruin]

What’s the chance the 2p shiv bug gets fixed today?

[rapid prism]

assa rogue streamer that does alot of M+ i should watch?

[spice spire]

@subtle tundra when stream buddy

[slow marsh]

.1%

[unborn ruin]

Better odds than I was expecting

[subtle tundra]

[spice spire]

[brazen zodiac]

might be doin this too, or the cloak

got both 278 with a socket so time to GAME

[brazen zodiac]

when stream...buddy...

[wide ridge]

socket on cloak?

[brazen zodiac]

lmfao meant somethin else

or maybe i broke the system

[subtle tundra]

hacker

[amber fossil]

is there a way to sim what stat you need for So'leah's Secret Technique trink?

[wide bolt]

personally would (for this one specific case) just use stat weights and aim to get whatever stat is highest

[raven vapor]

@limber lion Just updating my wa's to include your vendetta logic from the pins, does this look correct? (vendetta is trigger 3 on the rupture group and trigger 2 on the garrote group)

[subtle tundra]

thats some cursed thing you did there

[dawn ivy]

i dont think you want what youre trying to make

might just want to learn the internal mental math

[limber lion]

Not exactly sure what I'm looking at here to be honest.

[raven vapor]

it's an update on my vendetta pandemic timers to include refreshing when vendetta is 3 seconds or less with rupture/garrote being 7 seconds or less

[limber lion]

Sure yeah, but I'm not exactly sure what's happening there

Why are condition 3 and 4 the exact same except the trigger 1 duration is a lot lower

[raven vapor]

condition 3 is when vendetta is at less than 3 seconds causing the pandemic flash at 7 seconds while condition 4 is when vendetta is above 3 seconds causing the pandemic flash to happen at 3.6 seconds for rupture and 2.7 seconds for garrote

[limber lion]

Oh yeah I'm dumb, I thought they looked the exact same but yeah the remaining duration was less than on the condition above

Yeah that looks good, can probably pump the Rupture up to 8

[past bobcat]

can someone link the wa

[raven vapor]

great cheers

[raven vapor]

It's just the Afenar wa you can get Ceverion's updated timers here https://wago.io/rk2kEs76d i've just updated mine with the additional logic from the latest pins

[vast loom]

i would do that in like 2 ways you can create modifier keys in the macro like do X when alt is held or you can just create a macro that does vendetta + pot

and have it on the shift + "key" bind

[limber lion]

That's a weird question, because you're basically saying "Is there a way to make the game read my mind, so whenever I want to use potion, it will use it even though I press the same button?"

and that is not possible

The only ways are either having 2 different binds or adding a modifier button to it

If you have Vendetta on, let's say, Q, you can just bind Ctrl + Q to be your potion + Vendetta

But I don't see any reason why you would want to do that

You should just make 2 separate binds honestly

[ebon notch]

bind pot to every bind

100% on cd usage easy

[limber lion]

And with that being said, I have updated the weakauras to involve the new overhang logic. This means that during Vendetta windows you do not need to think about any timers or anything, you just reapply the bleed if the weakaura glows up, that's it.

Thanks for bringing it up, good addition. :)

Don't need to think about any timers or anything during Vend.
Garrote button glows up = press it
Rupture button glows up and you have 4-5 CP = press it

[raven vapor]

No worries, is it using the same logic as mine?

[past bobcat]

inbetween the snapshot windows, are you just constantly mut env until the cds line up again while maintaining the bleeds?

[raven vapor]

Yes you just play as normal maintaining bleeds using the standard pandemic times

[limber lion]

Yes pretty much.

[strange python]

why is the bis items of m+ on wow head not the same as if i do raidbot simcraft ?

[polar sinew]

bcs sim will always watch your actual stuff

[kindred rapids]

sims are always watching

[vast loom]

stats change in respective value based on your other stats so just because the bis uses X item doesnt mean you should with your current setup

[raven vapor]

To add to the above you could be playing a race with a passive stat bonus which might make your "full bis" different to what is listed, it's always best to sim yourself

[hexed root]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[hexed root]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8a3K6LgkqNiQ8we9pFvpXv
I'm sad my phial isn't "good enough" Might run it anyway over double active trinkets.

[limber lion]

Don't you have valor to upgrade it?

I'm guessing you don't, rip

Next week though, big gains

[normal mist]

so guys i've heard that survival hunters were nerfed

this guy didnt read the memo

[trim cairn]

Only on packs so big you don't pull them in high keys anyways generally tho at least that is what Gingi said when he read notes

[normal mist]

this was in a dos15

the pathing was on my opinion perfect

[hexed root]

I do? Just to 272. It still doesn't outscale ooze/iqd/totem according to raidbots.

[limber lion]

huh

you're simming a 262 phial there

[hexed root]

@limber lion I am, but I've simmed it on gear compare

[subtle tundra]

hmm, kinda low dps from the hunter

he had winfury + magic dmg increase + probably pi

[hexed root]

nadjia better now?

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nzovfsPNc9zwWCzX3ji1TF

@hexed root

[slow marsh]

yikers

[limber lion]

looks good to me

lol

[normal mist]

let me check for pi

[slow marsh]

lol yeah i was literally just doing the same thing xD

[limber lion]

don't... use... bloodmallets for soulbinds

[hexed root]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ceHoG9HBq7PpYomJzPpuWj

I thought I simmed it right the other day. Maybe I messed up.

[limber lion]

wat

you can literally see from your own sim

[slow marsh]

subtlety

[limber lion]

that it's a gain

[slow marsh]

[limber lion]

a +46 gain

[normal mist]

he had 3 PI's the whole run. I find it amazing because its the first time i saw one actually pumping lol

[slow marsh]

even as sub its better

ur a weirdo

[hexed root]

Has soulbinds been updated? And yes, I just saw from your link too. I'm saying I thought I simmed it correctly the other day, but today it's showing phial better.

[trim cairn]

Idk bro hunters nerfed confirmed

[limber lion]

No

But bloodmallets show soulbinds in a vacuum

without anything else

it doesn't take into account gear

trinkets

stats

rings

[slow marsh]

rerolling tea

[limber lion]

gems

enchants

[normal mist]

bro i wish i could do your DPS as assa ♥

[limber lion]

tea

different soulbind paths

and so on

[hexed root]

It was ~2 weeks ago or something where the wowhead and other things weren't updated. Just seeing a bigger "gap" today between the two soulbinds.

[limber lion]

Just use Raidbots

Sim yourself

Always

[hexed root]

Last week or something it was within 100 dps of each other vs today being ~300 dps

[limber lion]

Don't look at bloodmallets

[trim cairn]

Meanwhile I wish I was Cev or Varas

[limber lion]

Just sim yourself always

[normal mist]

I like being me 😛

[limber lion]

It will always give you accurate results

[vestal wren]

my spreadsheet has better optimized profiles if you want to compare covenants.
so it will not have a lot of the issues bm has.
But as cev says, simming is always better for your gear situation

[limber lion]

Yeah, fuu's spreadsheat is really, really good

[slow marsh]

like nadjia isn't BAD, it never was. but yeah using bloodmallet for kind of anything outside of just getting a general idea is

[limber lion]

If you want to see soulbinds/sims in a vacuum, his sheat is really good

Use that instead of Bloodmallet

And after you've taken a peak at his sheat, go sim yourself.

[hexed root]

is there a good way to sim catalyst?

[slow marsh]

yeah raidbots

has option in top gear

plus sign

[dawn ivy]

raidbots has a new nifty button in top gear

and also has a dedicated area in droptimizer

allows you to sim all tier items

[pastel vault]

why does NF assa opener sepsis 3sec before vendetta and before rupture?

is that really more dmg than getting full sepsis inside vendetta and MA

[slow marsh]

because flowers haste snapshot > 3 seconds of sepsis

also probably shouldn't be using MA with NF so there's that too

[pastel vault]

was just lookin at the profile, MA talent

hmm ok

[slow marsh]

where is MA talent for NF profile?

link

[pastel vault]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTYgz1ZCEqoM-KDFQwvyWDSyDNTf8J5s1GD1lnhIwEdfmTZ31K0dnoRkHtgsq6ysEyt9qAke_e9uu01/pubhtml#

[slow marsh]

oh in fuu sheet

[hexed root]

I must be blind, I don't see it in top gear.

[limber lion]

At the very tippity top

After that you just press the + buttons on the items that are compatible

[limber lion]

like these wrists

[hollow river]

Where was this when I needed it

[hexed root]

for top gear?

wtff

that was weird

cookies OP

[limber lion]

lmao

well good you got it working now

[fleet anchor]

Yes it's generally just better sequencing to do it this way for a few reasons

[hexed root]

yea literally wasn't there until completely closed out of it

[slow marsh]

that is a good question tho as to why fuu sheet NF sim has MA over subt. not that it really matters but is that not weird?

[tame sigil]

Just to be clear you wanna be holding MFD and Vanish for near your flag/vendetta window? Shiv doesn't matter much does it just use it on CD anytime?

[vast loom]

you get 1 free MFD and shiv between every flag+vendetta

[fleet anchor]

They were always fairly close

[vast loom]

You want to use Flag/Vendetta/MFD/Shiv together everytime.

• cev in pins

[tame sigil]

Okay so if Vendetta is off CD after like... 15 seconds then just hold onto Shiv for that window?

[fleet anchor]

atm Subterfuge and MA are actually identical in terms of NF sims

[vast loom]

if you get a good overhang hit your 2nd shiv off CD to buff some of the overhang dots which is huge, but after that you just hold for the vendetta flag window

[tame sigil]

Okay thanks!

Also is Theotar/Nadija just personal preference or does one have better synergy with the build?

[balmy condor]

They’re pretty much equal

[vast loom]

theo lieks to put umbrella in awful spots 🙂

[fleet anchor]

In theory Theotar is better in an ideal case but it's not always practical to get full value out of Soothing Shade. Nadija is not really very far behind considering it's not as much to worry about.

[balmy condor]

I don’t think anyone can realistically play one over the other and tell me the difference

[vast loom]

i just prefer to not look for the theo shade area, nadija is a bit easier to just use and forget

but im also bad 🙂

[tame sigil]

Fair enough, I will stick to Nadija so I don't have to faff with conduits switching to Sub for M+

[vast loom]

yeah i use theo for sub in m+

[unborn ruin]

Is it possible to compete with sub on +16-20 keys as sin?

[subtle tundra]

yes

but it requires way better play

[mortal pike]

Did something get updated on sims? im siimming moi grande higher today

[hollow river]

Compete with it? Idk. Time the keys though yeah easily

[hollow river]

Pins

[subtle tundra]

he said if its possible

it is

[balmy condor]

Depends on when you last simmed

[subtle tundra]

to compete

not be better

[hollow river]

My idea of compete with is to be nearly the same output idk

[mortal pike]

Oh that was day ago interesting

[unborn ruin]

Yeah I just mean keep up with enough so I’m not a carry. It seems like it could be better for top or soa because there are less mass aoe pulls.

[trim cairn]

top on tyra I think assa is great

[hollow river]

Then yeah you’re fine

Sin can do any dungeon on 20

For sure

[timid cloud]

It’s fine in PF too.

Just low trash dungeons like that we can usually do well in.

The thing that most people are overwhelmed by is maintaining all the ruptures & also honestly, getting a bit lucky with FOK CP generation.

Because getting 1 CP while you’re trying to get ruptures out just puts you further behind & so you’re hitting more builders in an attempt to catch up.

[unborn ruin]

How important is maintaining the envenom buff vs just throwing out more ruptures

[hollow river]

Not important at all

In aoe you only envenom to keep Slice up or if everything has full bleeds going on it

[vast loom]

how many targets is it before SnD isnt worth keeping up?

[hollow river]

Never

[vast loom]

k

[hollow river]

As far as I remember you always keep it up

[timid cloud]

Melees are always important for Sin.

[unborn ruin]

Is garrote always a higher priority than fok

[spice spire]

It’s a fairly absurd count but at some point it “technically” will fall off in value. But it’s much easier (and almost always correct) to just say never you’ll eventually reapply anyway

[timid cloud]

Yeah, don’t refresh SND on 40 targets.

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

Ye unless you’re in some crazy big aoe

Garrote energy is super free

[unborn ruin]

If the end goal of fok is to get ruptures, isn’t garrote a rupture that generates a CP kinda

[timid cloud]

Those were some words. But yes, I think.

[gray hazel]

I saw on Fuu's sheet that we are supposed to put unity on pants now. im guessing its a minor difference than having it on the bracers?

[timid cloud]

Garrote is important because it’s a bleed just like rupture but it also helps give you energy back to keep spending.

More bleed = better DPS

[balmy condor]

Slots in general just kinda don’t matter honestly

[timid cloud]

More gold to spend….

[gray hazel]

cool, i was still going based on your initial sims

[timid cloud]

Fuu spreadsheet is the Bible.

[balmy condor]

As long as you don’t break your tier in the process

[gray hazel]

wasnt sure if it was a must have thing

[balmy condor]

It’s all whatever

[gray hazel]

i have 5 pieces, and pants are just the rival 2 atm, so kinda w/e

[balmy condor]

Within 40ish dps regardless of slot

Yeh

Feel free to go for it

[unborn ruin]

Are the speed gems worth it over ~40 DPS

[gray hazel]

i might do that if i get 278 bracers at somepoint

[balmy condor]

How much do you value speed

[unborn ruin]

Gotta go fast

[balmy condor]

Then it sounds like it’s worth it for you

Strictly dps wise though there’s no way :p

[unborn ruin]

Isn’t downtime a DPS loss

[balmy condor]

Yeah and that speed gem won’t save you from it

What’s 1% movespeed gonna do

Get you back to the boss half of an auto attack faster?

Huge

[timid cloud]

Downtime is a position better maneuver.

[balmy condor]

I mean also true I guess

But speed gem isn’t permanent sprint

[timid cloud]

Speed gem won’t save you.

[balmy condor]

It’s just SLIGHTLY faster

[timid cloud]

Yeah, let me run 1% faster to get my auto in!

[unborn ruin]

It’s 5% faster!

[timid cloud]

M’uh second of CT pandemiced no tier….!

[oak sky]

Bro stop justifying it if its fun for you to have speed its worth it

[timid cloud]

Yeah.

I miss having speed gear BIS from reclears…

[hollow dirge]

Tbh, we used to be fast class, but with monks and demon hunters, one thing we had going for us, was left in their dust. They could probably make rogue sprint permanently and still be overlooked for tons of content 😂

[strange python]

I’ve seen so many monks kill them selves with their mobility

[rapid prism]

does 2 pc shiv also boost the damage from the cache trinket bleed?

[balmy condor]

no

[hollow dirge]

Unlike rogues, with our signature killmespree.😂

[strange python]

Lol I forgot outlaw was a thing as of late 💀

I saw an outlaw rogue using killing spree on pantheon and I was fearing for their life

[unborn ruin]

Do IQD sims assume you’re using it for stats or for execute?

[limber lion]

Stats

I mean you can choose which one you want

But you definitely want stats

[fair vector]

Im a returning player leveling a rogue from 0. Is there enough time left with Shadowlands to bother with leggos and stuff? Getting a Cov or anything? Like you have to have it to raid, mythic + or PvP right? So I have to waste the time to progress to even get groups for any content?

[kindred heron]

Legendaries & covenant stuff is definitely mandatory, but there is plenty of time

[fair vector]

When will they normally wipe all that stuff? Pre patch for the new expac?

[limber lion]

I doubt they'll wipe covenants, they might not even do that for legendaries

Next expansion is a safe bet, so in a year

With the current catch up systems, it's quite easy to get geared up and whatnot

[ebon notch]

we already know that druids can talent into convoke

so they will keep some of the cov abilities

[vestal wren]

blizz will keep covenant abilities where it makes sense

i am not sure rogue has a covenant ability that stands out to that degree

[ebon notch]

inb4 we get SBS

💀

[fair vector]

In terms of gearing while lvling, can you use honor before max level? If so, where? It saya used it oribos but I assume thata for max lvl blue starting gear for pvp?

[humble ginkgo]

I can only think of 2 classes that have a signature one

like druid is convoke and DK is slappy hands

hunter is NF one ig

[vestal wren]

mild spirits could be one too

[humble ginkgo]

yea

mild spirits

[balmy condor]

average spirits

[vestal wren]

we did start to call it that in the guild after the nerfs

[humble ginkgo]

I really

really really

really hope rogue isnt venthyr

but its most likely gonna be venthyr

I hope ER stays

or sbs most fun

[storm onyx]

not sure, Sbs gets spammy; i wish they implement its cp generation idea to garrote

[obtuse robin]

hey i have a sim question. is there a reason why adding a socket to item give much more dps then adding a socket to another item?

[vestal wren]

+1

i feel like flagallation is great

but it would be great to not have it in our rotation in the next xpac

[rapid prism]

i notice some of the top logs for ST fights its a toss up between Nadjia and Theotar soublind. Is there a reason? or is it entirely player preference?

[balmy condor]

im assuming there's more than just socket item 1 socket item 2

[vestal wren]

nadja is more consistent

[balmy condor]

basically just preference

[vestal wren]

but you can play theo just fine

[storm onyx]

Theotar requires you to stay in the buff area, which is not always possible, Nadja effects is with you regardless of movement

[rapid prism]

roger. so it doesnt have anything to do with tea buff?

like play theo with crit/agil tea. nadja otherwisE?>

[bleak sky]

agi tea is the worst tea

[obtuse robin]

the only other thing is both socket candidates are paired with a neck im going to upgrade with valor

[bleak sky]

sim your options, but it's likely haste/crit tea

[rapid prism]

haste or crit tea best for assa?

ok

[balmy condor]

then sockets are equal

[vestal wren]

you can compare all teas, i have instructions how to do it in #subtlety-faq under sim options

but you generally want haste or crit

[balmy condor]

it's in the sin faq as well

[vestal wren]

oh

[limber lion]

haste everytime

but just play nadja

[vestal wren]

ah nice, didn't see you added it

[glass tulip]

What is this glow button press button update I'm hearing about in the WAs

A logic too high above our understanding of the purpose so just be monke

[fair vector]

Do WA just give you an alert wheb an ability is able to be used? Or is it your button/hotkey like on your bar? Never used WA before and want to try this time around but have 0 understanding of them or how/why they ade used.

Are*

[balmy condor]

weakauras are used to show you info on things

outside of that it depends highly on what the point of it is

you can make combo points with wa's that change color if you have the kyrian buff

you can change the color of your rupture tracking when it hits pandemic

can make it play a sound when your trinket comes off cooldown

all sorts of shit

basically if it's in the game and on your character, you can track it in any way you'd like

there's a whole pack that gets released every tier for boss mechanics as well

[fair vector]

Oh wow. I assume you need some pretty good understanding of computers/addons?

[balmy condor]

if you want to make your own, I guess

but the template system is pretty easy

and 99% of the time you just import someone elses wa and call it a day

[fair vector]

If I grab one from an already made template, do I have to do much to get it working or just install like any other addon?

[bleak sky]

template system is

[balmy condor]

install weakauras, find the aura you want to import, copy paste, done

[glass tulip]

but also 99/100 times you can just find one you need already made

[bleak sky]

300 diff in sims from sin vs sub

gap is closing

soonTM

[balmy condor]

700 diff in sims from sin vs sub

[glass tulip]

silence DH player

[balmy condor]

unplayable

[bleak sky]

700 truly unplayable

[hollow river]

Would it be a waste to catalyst even low ilvl gear just to get 4set on like an alt maybe? Since we’ll likely have hella charges for higher ilvl later?

[fair vector]

Sweet. Ill try it out. So its as simple as just downloading and google a premade. Im sure I can figure that out. Thanks.

[bleak sky]

still 1k behind cev

[balmy condor]

https://wago.io/weakauras

[glass tulip]

one of my guildies said that the charges havent stacked on his alts and that it was still 1 per week

I don't exactly believe him but it may be scuffed

in which case I would suggest just doing any piece every week

[prisma carbon]

i turned 2 pieces into tier last week on my alt

[hollow river]

They definitely stack

[glass tulip]

yeah I think hes dumb

but either way my opinion is the same

[hollow river]

Well my alts aren’t even +15 ready so that’s why I was curious lol

[bleak sky]

just do a 15

ezclap

[hollow river]

They’re all like 90ilvl fam

[oak sky]

not 4p 2 leggo

[hollow river]

My worryer is 250ish

Still need to get unity on him too lol

[mortal pike]

cache is still use on bleed always yea?

[limber lion]

Yes

[oak sky]

@hollow river

[hollow river]

I’ve barely been playing the game ngl

Need to decide what to play and get my ass far away from rogue

[oak sky]

great go outlaw

[spice spire]

Agreonicy is BANGING now

Fr

[bleak sky]

let's do some double mage keys

fr fr fr fr

[oak sky]

still piss ilvl tho

[spice spire]

🐀

[oak sky]

and i need to work on my fire rotation

[hollow river]

@oak sky did you do MT on it yet?

[spice spire]

I mean it does matter

But it also doesn’t ya feel

[oak sky]

its the rings the trinkets

[spice spire]

OOOOF

[oak sky]

fuck no

[hollow river]

Why not lol

It’s fun

[oak sky]

ive only done the sin mage tower

[hollow river]

Just go arcane

It takes 30 seconds

[oak sky]

i put in a few attempts on sub but i got bored

[sick aspen]

does anyone have 278 tier chest that could paste me the simc id for that piece to add manually? keeps coming up as a broken piece when I try so I must have one of the id's wrong

[bleak sky]

chest=soulblade_leathers,id=188903,bonus_id=7772/8116/6652/7359/8153/1498,enchant_id=6214

[sick aspen]

Thank you 🙂

[tiny parrot]

just wonder if someone can post a generic opener for assa rogue with 4pc and double leggo

this current assa is so different from what i've been playing in bfa

i kinda feels like the dots duration during vendetta is too low, have to constantly refresh it

[winter vapor]

thats normal @tiny parrot check pins for part of the rotation (think its 2nd or third down)

but depends on what covenant your using

[balmy condor]

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/Oz6ewYfuUnp6i_9pyzPJY1hX3RnG2M2IWagjfvvhG3k/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/967679427301507082/vendetta_timings.png?width=810&height=472

since you run with MA, before the flag would just be mut snd mut gar to prep for the flag and get garrote up

[lucid birch]

[winter vapor]

ah sorry whispyr didnt see you'd updated the FAQ (weird, says unread to me)

[tiny parrot]

oh i'm playing with subt

[balmy condor]

I just edited the faq posts, didn't actually post anything new

I also have a whole ass update written for the wowhead guide but it's still in review

soon