assa pov 
#assassination
hollow escarp
ebon notch
assa pov <:pepLaff:742974415385395303>
Which key
hollow escarp
DoS
ebon notch
echo geyser
Would it be safe to say that venthyr cov would gain more than necro from PI?
If you could in theory chain PI
ebon notch
Most likely yeah
echo geyser
ebon notch
Why lmao
hollow escarp
not if it's random PIs
ebon notch
Ye true
hollow escarp
for some reason I get more PIs as sub in keys than assa
echo geyser
What if u had PI for a minute straight
ebon notch
Ram wtf is going on
echo geyser
ebon notch
You can sim this btw
ebon notch
for some reason I get more PIs as sub in keys than assa
Who ever does more damage get PI it's how pugs work
ebon notch
No dagger no trinket
You have cache right
prisma monolithBOT
Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand
ebon notch
So run cache phial wdym
ebon notch
There's only one other combo that beats that in Sims for me
Ok ram hasn't slept yet on god
He's delirious
echo geyser
echo geyser
Slept some hr
hollow escarp
sigil for me 
ebon notch
sigil for me <:PepegaHands:685133670297763970>
Same for me
But it's probably better
Depending on fight timers
ebon notch
Slept some hr
How many
echo geyser
Iqd bad?
drifting forge
sigil for me <:PepegaHands:685133670297763970>
What trinkets do you have for it to be not upgrade
hollow escarp
haven't killed Pantheon yet, probably never will based on this droptimizer 
ebon notch
Iqd good but unreliable
hollow escarp
What trinkets do you have for it to be not upgrade
278 cache and 272 phial
drifting forge
Ah i got 278 iqd and 272 phial, sigil still like 0.2% upgrade
echo geyser
Does cache in m+ feel lackluster compared to sub or they doing same dmg cause of dot crits?
limber lion
No, Assa with cache does a lot less damage
echo geyser
limber lion
Sub Cache is like 2x as good as Assa
vestal wren
sub is a cache abuser 🙂
ebon notch
cache money
ebon notch
iqd phial?
viscid spear
sub is a cache abuser 🙂
It's wand ST for Sub, right? Sin always uses Axe
limber lion
It's wand ST for Sub, right? Sin always uses Axe
Technically the optimal use depends on whether you play Venthyr or not.
vestal wren
for sub:
vestal wren
sin potentially could use sword
as it rly likes haste, but needs a bit more testing to see if there is a way to make that work
limber lion
<a:aGibbonHug:759483141496504342>
viscid spear
But this is not sub chat
normal mist
After a bunch of +2 and +5 I think I quit getting both trinkets and ring
echo geyser
did u call him bald or get called bald
tired falcon
storm belfry
I just don't get it for insta declines on sub 10 keys
storm belfry
I hvae made one and it wasnt like that lol
limber lion
100 people want in, only 2-3 dps get selected
storm belfry
even when i get into one the list isnt as long as youd think
list was much longer when i farmed BRH trinket on main
limber lion
idk, it was pretty damn long when I was doing them the past 3 days
with mainly 270+ 3k+ gamers
misty holly
Seems very different.
If you are in a position to get sylvanas dagger - at least heroic/mythic then you are in a guild who raids. So if you raid you get your shot. If not you don't.
storm belfry
isnt that dagger for them their bis throughout the whole expac
misty holly
presumably you would raid whether sylvanas dropped a special dagger or not, right?
This is just bullshit.
spice spire
isnt that dagger for them their bis throughout the whole expac
Dagger swap tech is a thing
The entire xpac yeah
spice spire
Sub is just demonic tech after demonic tech tbh
storm belfry
I didnt even know we could swap weapons in combat
hollow escarp
Sub is just demonic tech after demonic tech tbh
we kinda started in Nathria with theotar extended potion swap on pull 
bleak sky
we kinda started in Nathria with theotar extended potion swap on pull <:PepeLaug...
God I miss that
misty holly
how much of a dps increase is this ring anyway
~100 I am seeing.
storm belfry
misty holly
lol
storm belfry
then
misty holly
sim a droptimizer for legion timewalking
hollow escarp
so could be 500 if you have ZM rings
storm belfry
I do not feel as bad not getting
misty holly
It will show you
slow marsh
You don't feel as bad ? 100 is a lot
storm belfry
well i have a 272 crit haste w leech and socket and duskwalkers
hollow escarp
You don't feel as bad ? 100 is a lot
let the man cope
slow marsh
Mfair
storm belfry
imean it is a lot but idk i feel 100 doesnt make or break shit
I will cope
til my last breath
then re farm next TW
and get it for sure
slow marsh
I mean I'm not burning out to farm it either but also I'm not coping to say it's not that big a deal
I know I'm kinda inting
But that's ok
storm belfry
quite literally i been sitting in queue for most the day yesterday, well past two days and spamming this and no luck
it is not ffun
idk how ppl survive to 70 runs
coral jasper
I literaly did 32 cos for ring and i still didnt get ring and the best part is thats the only item i need cuz i have bether trinkets than warden dng have
Game dont have mercy on me at all
slow marsh
Ye I was down to do 15 runs on day 1 but it was bugged so that kinda killed it for me and now I just don't care cuz rogue sucks anyways and I'm already on full tilt so I'm not farming anything
But that's a me problem, not a 'its not that big a deal' problem
coral jasper
And also
I loted every single item that exist in that dng
Just not the ring
Hhahahahahahahahahahaahhahahh
Im losing ittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
slow marsh
Just be glad it's not fcm from last tier. That was way worse
slow marsh
That loot table was way bigger and the dungeon could sometimes take an hour because of how stupid it is
storm belfry
what ring do you guys shoot for to pair w DW if you don't have signet
bleak sky
what ring do you guys shoot for to pair w DW if you don't have signet
sim it
who cares which one it is
storm belfry
figured
slow marsh
There's 3 within margin
storm belfry
I seen a lot of ppl w the one from top i think
crit haste one
iirc
i g ot the one from pf
slow marsh
Doesn't really matter tbh cuz you'll just get whatever you're missing on neck or something
gentle flower
hey whats the legendary now for assasination
i see its dusk
but ive seen people using doom?
slow marsh
The crit mast from raid is just as good as the rygelon big mast ring so just use whatever you get as long as it's not vers
bleak sky
but ive seen people using doom?
where
echo geyser
@limber lion any chance of sin key streams? 
bleak sky
nobody plays assa nowaydas
I'm coming back to play those mid tier keys trust
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> any chance of sin key streams? <:kermit_pepe:7319113609040...
I don't really push for score, I'm a raid-freak. :')
I only do weeklies for the chest and that's it
echo geyser
well i know u will still play ur best no matter the keylevel
fleet anchor
Just spam FoK #wow-general message
limber lion
limber lion
<:kermit_pepe:731911360904036473> well i know u will still play ur best no matte...
Yeh, I'm an omega tryhard
fleet anchor
I did get a H Sigil last night so maybe I’ll do Heroic full clear as Assassination next week. Need to practice a bit though.
My Assassination gear still is a bit behind though unfortunately
viscid spear
I did get a H Sigil last night so maybe I’ll do Heroic full clear as Assassinati...
Sigil exists on Heroic? It actually drops? 
slender badger
Does sepsis snapshot
fleet anchor
Yes but it doesn’t really matter
weak bane
Anyone else wish nf was better
fleet anchor
Can’t refresh Sepsis so it’s gonna do the same either way
limber lion
I did get a H Sigil last night so maybe I’ll do Heroic full clear as Assassinati...
It's super fun with the sigil
Or well, I seem to be the only person who thinks that apparently
everyone's on an Assassination-hatetrain
terse pewter
Sin is king
slender badger
Yes but it doesn’t really matter
wouldn't you want to use it after vendetta instead of before then?
drifting imp
fleet anchor
wouldn't you want to use it after vendetta instead of before then?
It makes no difference. Usually the setup is before.
scenic kelp
everyone's on an Assassination-hatetrain
Idk why a good assa is better than a bad sub xD
fleet anchor
Generally the most impactful thing is having Blossoms for Vendetta snapshot
Sepsis itself doesn’t really benefit either way since it’s short duration on a long CD. The 4pc is basically irrelevant for it
bleak sky
dwarf, dark iron dwarf or void elf 
fleet anchor
everyone's on an Assassination-hatetrain
Yeah honestly it feels fine to me. Other than me being chaotic doing stupid shit due to lack of practice recently.
hollow escarp
dwarf, dark iron dwarf or void elf <a:aPES_Think:493353113332219924>
void elf for halondrus
and sausage
fleet anchor
Kyrian Sub is probably still my favorite rotation right now but Assassination seems fine.
bleak sky
void elf for halondrus
can just play sub for those I guess
bleak sky
true true true true
spice spire
everyone's on an Assassination-hatetrain
I’m not hating 🥺
limber lion
Generally the most impactful thing is having Blossoms for Vendetta snapshot
and making sure to let the bleed tick once with blossoms before popping Vend 
spice spire
I actually love the 4p I’m just bad 
vestal wren
Kyrian Sub is probably still my favorite rotation right now but Assassination se...
thats surprising to me
frail kettle
ST do i still keep Crimson tempest up without shiv or Vendetta?
bleak sky
ST do i still keep Crimson tempest up without shiv or Vendetta?
yes
it's another bleed, you just keep it up
fleet anchor
and making sure to let the bleed tick once with blossoms before popping Vend <:C...
Yeah I think usually the easiest is just to go like Sepsis Shiv Vendetta which is usually enough of a delay iirc
limber lion
Yuuup
kindred heron
but if we shiv before sepsis the first tick of its bleed doesnt get buffed
er
Sepsis before shiv *
gusty mirage
since 1 fok generates 1 cp
fleet anchor
Sepsis before shiv *
That’s fine
bleak sky
<a:SCpuke:922432412498145331>
fleet anchor
You have to weight it against 1 extra second of ticks within Vendetta at the end
It’s a fairly neutral to positive trade off
spice spire
<a:SCurstinky:841888325735940106>
Me seeing minalbasap in the key listings
kindred heron
You have to weight it against 1 extra second of ticks within Vendetta at the end
tbh I thought about what you said here for a bit and still don't understand haha
but I get that you've already considered it and noted that sep -> shiv -> vend is best anyway, so good enough for me! Thx
fleet anchor
tbh I thought about what you said here for a bit and still don't understand haha
If you were to use Shiv before Sepsis that naturally is going to mean you have shifted the 2pc+Shiv debuff 1s forward in time, which means 1s less time within Vendetta+4pc
Have to use Sepsis before Vendetta to get Blossoms down so putting Shiv before Sepsis would be minimum 2 GCDs before Vendetta, and with the Haste snapshot delay probably 3 GCDs
(Since you'd need to fill something in after the Sepsis before Vendetta)
So that ends up being 2s less Shiv debuff within Vendetta in practical terms
misty holly
run #117 ring drops to an alt bear druid. He can't even trade it due to ilevel.
worn panther
SADGE
misty holly
the follow up to someons mage alt getting the ring yesterday and not being able to trade it.
Doing this dungeon is very painful...
hollow escarp
the dungeon is fun
slow marsh
everyone's on an Assassination-hatetrain
Ya darn right good sir
ripe gulch
the dungeon is fun
not after 100 runs
limber lion
dusk or zoldycks on lords if im a sin noob
Zoldyck, the timers are perfect for it as long as you hold Vend for the first swarm
Dusk is super iffy and it comes up 10s before Among Us, or you'll have to use it right after and you'll get Vend back like 5s into the swarm
I did some custom sims for it and Zoldyck just beats it everytime and it's honestly so much better for the fight
Vend for every swarm, no Vends in between
limber lion
If you wanna pump maximum deeps on Lords, yeah
I did around 23.2k, which is still like 9k behind the extarnal-juiced Destro 
fleet anchor
lol
balmy condor
I did around 23.2k, which is still like 9k behind the extarnal-juiced Destro <:K...
Good thing they now overcap less after 5 targets
limber lion
Good thing they now overcap less after 5 targets
I know right, they absolutely fucking annihilated that spec
unplayable
tropic rover
Warlock in shambles no way they see play anywhere now...
steel ridge
no they have to wait 0.1 second before casting the next rain
echo geyser
@limber lion uhm
? i have never read anything about lords
i just came in
2 pulls
killed boss
clueless sin player
steel ridge
xD
echo geyser
limber lion
killed boss
LMAO
tropic rover
Ez
limber lion
good boss
echo geyser
not good
echo geyser
they did ttell me dmg didnt matter
limber lion
we take those
subtle tundra
gamer
echo geyser
and now i understand
subtle tundra
dont get hit by green = boss dead
limber lion
Yehhh
echo geyser
dodge stuff
subtle tundra
ez
echo geyser
bait stuff
limber lion
We died once to enrage
But if everyone was alive toward the end, boss was pretty much dead
subtle tundra
echo geyser
they killed anduin like 2hrs ago
limber lion
I wanted to get the hands from the boss, but didn't get anything unlucky
echo geyser
i was out getting dinner
limber lion
Would have been sick to turn those 285 hands to tier next week
limber lion
Only way to get 285 tier hands
limber lion
anduin should die monday for our guild
ez
@echo geyser Rygelon is really, really fun
Probably the best boss I've progged yet
brazen zodiac
lol
limber lion
Ya
bleak sky
slate silo
Is it still a fight where you want the least amount of ranged or doesnt matter anymore?
slow marsh
The bosses are really fun true
echo geyser
277 monkaW
i cant equip it
slow marsh
Happy for people who get to enjoy the raid
bleak sky
not having fun ice?
slow marsh
Haven't I made it obvious by now lol
bleak sky
no gotta say the words
slow marsh
Which words
bleak sky
"i hate the game rn"
slow marsh
I hate the game right now
bleak sky
oh damn that sucks
slow marsh
Having more fun in tbc classic than retail and it's like the best raid in a long time
wooden kiln
Hello guys, I'm starting to progress xy'moz as Assa, I'm in a group that goes to the side platforms, any tips on how to play it?
timid cloud
It’s BIG pain.
limber lion
Yeah, 2nd platform is decent but 1/3 are a bit 
gusty mirage
Hello guys, I'm starting to progress xy'moz as Assa, I'm in a group that goes to...
Which platform are you going on? That kind of sets the tone for the advice
slow marsh
Like if you have to go then you have to go but that's actually one of the few fights where sin seems like it can do something if you stay on boss the entire fight
You can just stick on the boss like glue through the whole fight with cloak/single step/feint. and then either hold during intermission if your raid is cracked or blow up the far acolyte add that spawns
verbal knot
Switching from sub to sin and i dont have the slighest idea to how i need to line up my cds,like i might have vendetta up obedience in 5 and mfd in 10 for example
do i need to use all of these together?
limber lion
Yes
limber lion
You want to save MFD for Flag
So without resets, you use it once with Flag and once between
ebon notch
9% haste ram 
verbal knot
is it ok if i use the inbetween mfd for an envenom?
wooden kiln
@gusty mirage I'm 1 an 3, but I'll negociate really fast x)
gusty mirage
yeah I was originally 1 and 3
get off island 3
melee can't do shit on that island
those floor rifts are EVERYWHERE
limber lion
is it ok if i use the inbetween mfd for an envenom?
Yeah, doesn't matter
glass tulip
I didn't have a problem on 3
gusty mirage
were you the only melee there
glass tulip
No, surv hunt as well and I think 3rd melee
gusty mirage
and there weren't rifts everywhere on the floor?
glass tulip
Not that got in my way
glass tulip
I'll check when we clear this week
glass tulip
No projected textures? No problem.
ebon notch
you talking about xymox?
timid cloud
They usually spawn under the ridges near the edge of the main platform.
Those are usually the ones that are invisible, to clarify.
vestal wren
we love invisible floor effects
reminds me of cn
gusty mirage
you talking about xymox?
yup
limber lion
lul
vestal wren
gz
ripe gulch
ring at 249 sims only 50 dps lower than 262 with socket
any clue when valor cap is removed?
hollow escarp
hopefully 9.2.5 or HoF
paper blaze
guys recently coming back sin rogue is good for m+ or sub still the way to go
craggy oak
Good no, fine sure, sub is the play
proper tapir
So if you vend before the bleeds tick once then you don't get any snapshot benefit?
limber lion
Not for the existing bleeds, but they will snapshot on reapplication
proper tapir
Thank you, Cev.
lean fossil
does anyone have a cache wa?
strange python
Friend: "rogue is easiest class by far watch me 90% on an alt"
Also friend: 50% rupture uptime grey parse
clear finch
does anyone have a cache wa?
clear finch
If I remember correctly Sin rogues go bleed always. I don't use Cache for Sin play. Cache is my Sub M+ trink 🤣
lean fossil
fair enough
spice spire
!cache
prisma monolithBOT
Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand
spice spire
Is a command in every channel 🙂
trim cairn
hopefully 9.2.5 or HoF
What's HoF?
storm belfry
maybe Hall of Fame
oak sky
yep
slow marsh
yeah
trim cairn
As assa too? Or do I have to play outlaw
slow marsh
ye as assa
trim cairn
Guess I'm just bad
blazing pumice
you basically want to zone in and out until you get the echoing reprimand power
the blue one, I forget what it's called
trim cairn
Ye I mean I did it as sub on layer 4 before 5+ was released
Was crazy pumping like 400k dps by pressing echoing reprimand evis echoing reprimand evis
blazing pumice
I did up to layer 6 as sub
problem is the grappling hook anima is better than the shadowstep ones
cuz grappling goes down to basically no cd
trim cairn
Doesnt the shadowstep one do that too? Like literally 0 and giving you full CP
blazing pumice
it still has a big cd
trim cairn
and with the epic power making your finishers do 400% more damage?
trim cairn
Trying as assa rn tho and I feel like the first two floors are hard af and if I get the wrong mob combination you can get fearlocked even after kicks and cloak
before I get any powers
blazing pumice
you will literally get one shot by mobs at layer 8 without perma evasion/cloak
yep
if you're really patient, you just zone in and out until you get the echoing cd reset anima and the 20cp anima
otherwise it's not worth
trim cairn
Idk I was just hoping assa could be fun with a red ink leeching build
trim cairn
if you're really patient, you just zone in and out until you get the echoing cd ...
Stuff like this makes me wonder why they don't just let you choose your first 3 powers freely
strange python
Anyone using atrocity UI?
tropic rover
Is there anyway I can take the results from a topgear sim I've made and drop the resulting set up into droptimizer?
trim cairn
Fucking gigabrain Blizzard can't code well enough to make your covenant power reset between Torghast tries xd
bleak sky
Is there anyway I can take the results from a topgear sim I've made and drop the...
click the little dots -> dice
or just copy the resulting string from the final option
tropic rover
Thank you!
ebon notch
It took me embarrassingly long to learn that
Such a useful tool when doing a lot of Sims
hybrid vale
crimson tempest doesn't interact with venemous wounds? surprised me when i talented into it i thought it would add to the tooltip but no
vague charm
Can someone explain why theotar over Nadja right now?
I’m trying to wrap my brain around it
red plaza
3% haste increase with the right tea. Triple potency. Sometimes Nadja thrill seeker doesn’t line up with fights properly. It’s close though and I believe you go Nadja if you don’t roll haste tea
balmy condor
crimson tempest doesn't interact with venemous wounds? surprised me when i talen...
No because that would be insane
You would never take any other talent in that row if that were the case
hybrid vale
should i just take poison bomb until the 4 set? i see alot of people playing crimson these days
oak sky
Yeah
hybrid vale
thx :)]
bronze plover
hi i got countermeasure 262 Ilvl do u think is it good with phial or should i go with sigil and phial?
oak sky
Whatever sims higher for you
native belfry
You would never take any other talent in that row if that were the case
But we kinda never take any other talent in that row
hollow escarp
it would be Alacrity tier talent
steel ridge
You would never take any other talent in that row if that were the case
There are other talents? Poison bomb should be baseline and hidden blades is a meme
vestal wren
there are a lot of boring talents on assassination
e.g. hidden blades was from the start up communicated to be a bad talent in practice
esp. with fok beeing the only builder
hollow escarp
sub 4 set kinda reminds me of legion pb 
vestal wren
it does
nocturne bough
whats the difference in dps with this legion ring? if we miss out...
vestal wren
but i think the majority is fine with the sub set
compared to the 2nd best option?
around 0.5% dps:
vestal wren
https://www.wowhead.com/item=189854/rygelons-heraldric-ring
https://www.wowhead.com/item=178933/arachnid-cipher-ring
https://www.wowhead.com/item=178872/ring-of-perpetual-conflict
^ one of this 3
steel ridge
in 278 and 285?
nocturne bough
true, still such a big difference 😦
vestal wren
it might be a bit less if you don't play venthyr
but venthyr seems atm like the best choice overall
i also think its a good covenant in m+
versed mica
wtf, there's a hunter in my CoS group who wants autoattck ring
why would a hunter farm for it
hollow escarp
it's good for them as well
versed mica
I doubt it's as good
hollow escarp
does it matter?
versed mica
I guess not
vestal wren
he could be sv too
hollow escarp
yeah, that's why I mentioned the other 2 specs
zinc frost
I’m free from CoS prison 
vestal wren
congrats
dry chasm
good morning, if i done 8/8 dungeons in shadowlands i still have chance to drop a 278ilvl item from legion in vault?
blazing pumice
legion items aren't in vault
steel ridge
got it at last
in 262 with socket, jackpot!
bronze plover
in 262 with socket, jackpot!
y also got foulty countermeasure 262 😄
versed mica
got my faulty countermeasure, still no ring or tirathon's
been running these for hours
I hate my life
vestal wren
time to go pirate 
versed mica
p much
fading thicket
quick question, after reading the pins venthyr should be ahead, but the t28 profile is still running nf. is the profile just not updated or is the pin outdated?
normal mist
We go venthyr
Best way to know what people are using is going to warcraftlogs and check for rankings for each boss.
I believe single bit of information you might need is there
normal mist
Gz!!
real bay
sometimes lucky
steel ridge
quick question, after reading the pins venthyr should be ahead, but the t28 prof...
nightfae is not that bad tho
vestal wren
<:kekw:610125925413289985> 4runs
well congrats
limber lion
quick question, after reading the pins venthyr should be ahead, but the t28 prof...
Profile is massively behind. We sim 17k as Venthyr.
weak bane
Wish nf had been better, I liked it a lot
vestal wren
quick question, after reading the pins venthyr should be ahead, but the t28 prof...
!fuu i have updated profiles in my spreadsheet
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
vestal wren
nf is not as significant behind
weak bane
Yeah I think I simmed 15 as venthyr and 14.5 as nf the other day, not awful but still a bit
subtle tundra
<:kekw:610125925413289985> 4runs
4 gang
steel ridge
when i checked the nf sim last time, it used sepsis before vendetta, which looked kinda weird to me
fading thicket
FeelsGood no need to level nf then 
indigo mulch
!fuu i have updated profiles in my spreadsheet
Damn i didnt realize we were that close to sub.
limber lion
:)
solid venture
eternal portal
ive been wondering, iam assigned to an add in mythic phanteon...would sub or assa be more burst? assa burst with venth, vanish and shiv is also good
played sub last progress day... but dont know
hollow escarp
I don't think you want to use cds for adds so sub might do more damage
eternal portal
as sub i had to hold every cd
of the add woudnt die in time
or*
necromancers spawn 14 sec after pull
hollow escarp
You have symbols every 30 sec though
limber lion
ive been wondering, iam assigned to an add in mythic phanteon...would sub or ass...
Well to be honest, both are pretty bad choices. Assa is good on 2t and 4t, but terrible at target swapping.
Sub is slightly better at target swapping, but much worse on 2t
hollow escarp
Outlaw is good at target swapping
limber lion
Assa is a good choice if you don't have to run and switch to adds, Sub is good if you don't necessarily need 2t damage as much.
hollow escarp
proper tapir
when i checked the nf sim last time, it used sepsis before vendetta, which looke...
The sim is snapshotting vendetta with the NF flower haste buff (Dreamweaver). Sepsis then vendetta is correct.
steel ridge
Mh the buff lasts 18 seconds tho, letting you snapshot at the end when you go vendetta shiv sepsis
drowsy parcel
rupture yes garrote no
woeful meteor
!cache
prisma monolithBOT
Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand
junior pulsar
Do you guys play zoldyck in fort with 4-set or always dustwalker?
steel ridge
The sim is snapshotting vendetta with the NF flower haste buff (Dreamweaver). Se...
why does the sim use shiv before vendetta?
limber lion
Do you guys play zoldyck in fort with 4-set or always dustwalker?
Duskies only pretty much
limber lion
why does the sim use shiv before vendetta?
same reason
steel ridge
shiv snapshots?!
limber lion
no.....
junior pulsar
Just played with duskwalkers on a dummy. Crazy it gets lower than 1 min on one target dummy
limber lion
it honestly doesn't matter which order you use your abilities in
it's very minimal
you can press them all together
and it won't matter at all
junior pulsar
But with 2-tier only zoldyck + 2-tier must hit very hard if u shit when they are around that threshold
limber lion
yep
junior pulsar
Looking forward for that next week.
New char so only have the one piece from creation catalyst this week
shiv*
limber lion
ilevel=
thorn fjord
ohh ilevel
limber lion
so string,ilevel=272 for example
steel ridge
it's very minimal
smashing my head on the keyboard should do the trick 🙂
the nightfae sim even holds vendetta for the second sepsis 
brazen inlet
can someone explain when Envenom does more dmg than CT in ST?
steel ridge
they seem to pretty close in dmg output with 4 set
but honestly, i have no idea and i catch myself pressing envenom during vendetta when i actually should hit CT
brazen inlet
I think the APL prios envenom when shiv debuff is up if I am reading it correct
steel ridge
thats probably the best explaination
this spec is so complicated with the damn tier set xD
brazen inlet
Yeah lol some actual decisions to make instead of just 100% debuff uptime
Not that I played rogue before this patch or anything tho
limber lion
the nightfae sim even holds vendetta for the second sepsis <:peepostudy:58573392...
Kind of, but not really
The sim currently plays Night Fae following the normal Night Fae logic we've posted here, but the sim also takes into account fight length and possible extra sync possibilities
steel ridge
i still cant shake the feeling that the nf sim is weird
limber lion
By holding Vend there, it allows the sim to get an extra sync off but not lose a cast doing that
Normally you would lose a cast doing that, but it works for very, very specific fight lengths
steel ridge
why would it wait for sepsis and hold vendetta, but not use sepsis during vendetta in the opener
this is just nuts
limber lion
It's not that crazy
You press Sepsis first because it procs the Dreamweaver haste buff
which will increase the tick rate of your bleeds
steel ridge
sure it does
limber lion
which you will then snapshot by pressing Vendetta shortly after
steel ridge
but its 18 seconds long and the venthyr sim starts its "vendetta snapshot" with 14 stacks of flag, which is lower haste than dreamweaver and STILL shivs later
i cannot wrap my dense head around it xD
limber lion
That's because Shiv also increases the damage done by Sepsis
whereas for Venthyr there is no gain whatsoever
It doesn't interact with Flagellation in any way
Also what is 18s long?
steel ridge
yeah shiv increases sepsis dmg, but why does the sim use sepsis before shiv then?^^
steel ridge
Also what is 18s long?
the flower field, is it not?
limber lion
yeah shiv increases sepsis dmg, but why does the sim use sepsis before shiv then...
Because it's a gain to use Shiv after Sepsis, because of stuff like TO
And it allows you to maximize damage done with the snapshotted bleeds and whatnot
steel ridge
what does shiv do to toxic onslaught? because of shadowblades garrote thingy?
limber lion
Sure, something like that
But I'll have you know that every single version of Shiv/Sepsis/Vend/Vanish sync has been looked into
and we've spent
dozens
of hours
looking into stuff
it's not random in anyway
feel free to go look for gains if you can
but I doubt you will because there's multiple people here who've worked on it for countless hours
and this is the outcome
It's very particular
steel ridge
yeah i figured
limber lion
Kyrian Assassination might be all over the place
because of how bad it is, so we've not spent as much time on it
But because Night Fae was looking to be the prominent covenant after my initial work on it, Koji and Whispyr have spent countless of hours on it as well.
I would just trust the sims.
thorn fjord
So during Vend window on ST we use CT instead of Env when not refreshing Garrote and Rupt?
subtle tundra
big 7cp ruptures
limber lion
So during Vend window on ST we use CT instead of Env when not refreshing Garrote...
You can remove the "during Vend" part
you maintain CT at all times as much as possible
You only Envenom if you have all 3 bleeds up and have nothing else to press, or if you have to refresh Slice and Dice
vast loom
is there a resource out there that explains snapshotting for assassination rogue?
limber lion
I was thinking of making a pin or a command for it.
thorn fjord
I love spamming Env lol the playstyle seems so stale 😦 waaah
limber lion
is there a resource out there that explains snapshotting for assassination rogue...
But I would recommend that you read the pin that I made about the build.
mystic fractal
is lords a cleave encounter, in terms of what the pin says re: cleave encounters?
steel ridge
But because Night Fae was looking to be the prominent covenant after my initial ...
i mean nf is still looking good, but not very many people actually seem to play it
vast loom
hmmm okay is there anything that explains why snapshottign works or anything?
limber lion
Generally snapshotting refers to locking the tick rate of bleeds.
So if your Rupture is ticking at 100% tick rate, then you Vendetta, your Rupture will be ticking at 100% tick rate for its duration until it drops or is reapplied.
If you get a haste buff and then your Rupture ticks at, let's say, 130% tick rate, your Rupture will continue ticking at 130% tick rate even if you lose the haste during it.
Meaning you want to maximize your haste before pressing Vendetta with the 4p, or before reapplying bleeds during it, because it locks the pumped up tick rate of the bleed for the entire duration, instead of dynamically dropping when the haste drops.
vast loom
okok, i knew how Old snapshot works i just didnt realize that tickrate snapshots, this only works with the 4p right?
limber lion
Normally your bleed tick rate changes dynamically depending on how much haste you have. So during lust they would be ticking much faster, and the second lust drops, they would drop down drastically.
limber lion
okok, i knew how Old snapshot works i just didnt realize that tickrate snapshots...
Yes, only with the 4p Vendetta effect.
vast loom
so this form of snapshot is just a sideeffect from this 4p, is this a bug or a feature or both lol
limber lion
It's a feature.
vast loom
limber lion
It can be a dps gain or a dps loss, depending on how it's played.
If you think about it, reapplying bleeds during Flagellation is a bit cringe
thorn fjord
So you’re snap spotting at the end of vend with your flag buff up in order to gain the benefit of vend after it falls off
limber lion
let's say you snapshot the 10 stack Flagellation with Rupture, you're now at 15 stacks, so technically your current snapshotted Rupture is doing less damage than it would if you reapplied it.
Or if it worked dynamically
vast loom
does raidbots use the snapshot rotation?
vast loom
okay perfect sounds good
rotund oak
that means that incase we use cache
we want to haste in order to snapshot the bleeds more?
or its better to just go with the bleed
limber lion
Sword and Axe are both good.
Doesn't really matter honestly.
They perform very similarly.
Axe is generally just more consistent, considering it's a massive gain in AoE scenarios
thorn fjord
So we want to recast rupture as soon as we gain our flag stacks
rotund oak
roger and copy
limber lion
So we want to recast rupture as soon as we gain our flag stacks
No.
thorn fjord
I’m a little confused now lol
limber lion
I was just highlighting the bad part about snapshotting
thorn fjord
Ah ok
limber lion
You don't play around it at all
because reapplying it would mean that you get 4-5 stacks of Flag again
and you'll be 4-5 stacks behind again
lean fossil
Axe is generally just more consistent, considering it's a massive gain in AoE sc...
how does the axe work? just got the trinket last night and haven't played with it much
limber lion
so your rotation would be muti rup muti rup muti rup muti rup
which is just not ideal
and a massive lost
thorn fjord
Right
limber lion
instead we want to take advantage of the haste buff when we have max stacks
crystal glen
It puts a 3 sec bleed on everything you abilities hit @lean fossil
limber lion
but all of this is just fancy stuff, generally you just follow normal pandemic logic and don't even have to think about the snapshotting whatsoever
rotund oak
what if we got specced into exang and snapshooted the bleeds after exang
lean fossil
It puts a 3 sec bleed on everything you abilities hit <@106888420671885312>
ahh, can it crit or no?
thorn fjord
I generally let rupture run longer and recast garrote to be able to apply it with 2-3 seconds left of vend with a 5cp rupture around the same time
crystal glen
I know the wand crits but have never checked the axe bleed - i know its haster
Hasted*
lean fossil
I know the wand crits but have never checked the axe bleed - i know its haster
gotcha ty!
crystal glen
Definitely get a WA that shows which buff is active
thorn fjord
Mind taking a look at this @limber lion? I know I should be running ct but PB just makes this fight easier for me.. I also fucked up my last vend rotation and missed vanish right before the kill
limber lion
I mean, if you want to play Poison Bomb, I would just recommend that you play Night Fae honestly
Plays better, is more consistent and isn't reliant on landing a good tea buff
Kinda need to play CT as Venthyr
thorn fjord
I’m going to spend time this week getting CT down
Gonna check some sims now for NF too with pb
Am I casting my dots correctly within CD windows tho?
limber lion
Am I casting my dots correctly within CD windows tho?
I mean you just follow the normal pandemic windows, there's no crazy strats or anything
You don't have to press Rup/Gar together every time
Just reapply them depending on their individual pandemic timers
thorn fjord
Gotcha
thorn fjord
I gotta git gud and learn to optimally use CT
i just always forget to use it outside of pull and vend CD's
rotund oak
u need to break ur brain on how to play around CT and bleeds in general
limber lion
do you like nf gameplay more than venthyr
I personally prefer current Venthyr over Night Fae for the increased skill ceiling that Venthyr provides and because of HOW SMALL THE CIRCLE FOR FLOWER OF BLOSSOMS IS.
rotund oak
ive personally hit several days the dummy
limber lion
If NF and Venthyr simmed similarly and Field of Blossoms' range worked like Rune of Power, then I would probably prefer Night Fae more.
steel ridge
you were supposed to bring balance to the covenants, not join the venthyr!
you were the chosen one
misty holly
Flowers are BS, I don't know how people manage to optimize that.
rotund oak
they dont
misty holly
half the fights you can't just stand somewhere for 18 seconds
rotund oak
most of the time
NF is pvp orientated
its more bursty
venthyr is the 5 functional fingers convenant
marble hemlock
I personally prefer current Venthyr over Night Fae for the increased skill ceili...
imagine if it was like rune of power
same visual
but rune has like 10x the area
rotund oak
but rune has like 10x the area
❤️
vestal wren
well, rune of power is a mage spell, so ^^
limber lion
imagine if it was like rune of power
Yeh that's what I said above
No clue why it doesn't work like that
it's dumb
the circle is soooooo small
like you literally can't stand in it
thorn fjord
Like EarthBreakers small?
rotund oak
no weakspots are smaller lol
steel ridge
its more bursty
its not only more bursty, but its less prone to fuckups 😄
limber lion
Like EarthBreakers small?
They're pretty similar, but you don't have to stand on the weak spot for 18s
rotund oak
its not only more bursty, but its less prone to fuckups 😄
dotn think so,outside sepsis windows that is its pretty str8 forward
limber lion
:)
rotund oak
venthyr is more highskillbased
limber lion
dotn think so,outside sepsis windows that is its pretty str8 forward
That's literally what he just said
lol
steel ridge
dotn think so,outside sepsis windows that is its pretty str8 forward
sepsis is just fire and forget and do an ambush at the end...
rotund oak
like if u optimize ur bleeds and snapshot correctly it does way more dam
rotund oak
ik all that,already on venthyr tech
😛
tried NF as well
venth just does more dam
but can be more of a riddle to solve
steel ridge
its fuckin hectic
limber lion
The Field of Blossoms is super tragic as well
rotund oak
idk,tbh,venthyr assa is legit harder than sub rn
limber lion
because the field is the reason
Night Fae is good
not getting value from it is a 800 dps loss
:)
rotund oak
if field was a ''combat state'' like a passive buff or something
ild go fae
hands down
but its less dam,so ill go with the vamps
find it amusing
played exsang during nyalotha,pretty familiar playstyle
steel ridge
niya is too far behind i guess
steel ridge
i kinda enjoyed nf on our boostrun yesterday, sad that we didnt have a warrior
thorn fjord
Venth with CT is simming at 14,800 whereas NF is at 14,250
gonna just get better with CT
and drop the PB dream
steel ridge
is a warrior like a flat 5% buff or is that napkin math?
fleet anchor
not getting value from it is a 800 dps loss
tbf most of the value only involves being in it for 1s prior to casting Vendetta and when you refresh DoTs. If you stand out of it otherwise you basically only lose AAs. 😛
limber lion
tbf most of the value only involves being in it for 1s prior to casting Vendetta...
biiiig true
fleet anchor
Upshot of the snapshotting is the actual flowers uptime is not quite as important
rotund oak
yeah,venth goes much higher,its not even a discussion if u hit a dummy in both convenants and get into the number comparison
limber lion
Yeh it's true
Too bad Night Fae is still 350 dps behind Venthyr
so even then it's not worth playing
but I would still appreciate a bigger range on flowers
rotund oak
fleet anchor
lol unironically the Venthyr CT setup is kinda nice just for flexibility since it's not awful in dungeons and you have CT and MfD available
People may not enjoy it, but when CT and MfD are best for ST, it makes dungeon setups significantly more straightforward and less tradeoff-y
rotund oak
Think they actually wanna play something with 3 buttons and ridiculously OP
DH is the play
edgy af
misty holly
3 buttons is pushing it.
I want to play whirlwind barb from D3
drag mouse around screen. collect loot.
ebon notch
there is a version for that in wow
wait what is it
hollow escarp
jackhammer + crusader enchant + full socketed items at a specific ilvl for perfect timewalking scaling
you just spin and your health bar looks like a poe/d3 with instant healing while face tanking everything
abstract flicker
can u tell me some haste/crit breakpoints? im at 26 haste 34 crit. didnt sim yet im online on phone
bleak sky
808s and hastebreaks
echo geyser
You know i thought i was finally gonna get sin practice in raid only to kill lord in 2 pulls
limber lion
can u tell me some haste/crit breakpoints? im at 26 haste 34 crit. didnt sim yet...
My current stat weight is mastery = haste > vers = crit
as you can see
doesn't matter
echo geyser
Now im never getting gud
limber lion
just use high ilvl
echo geyser
limber lion
You know i thought i was finally gonna get sin practice in raid only to kill lor...
Play sin on Rygelon as well
echo geyser
echo geyser
I still dont have a dagger
echo geyser
Rest of my gear might be decent idk
tranquil lodge
just get the ryg dagger 4Head
echo geyser
278 phial and 278 cache
indigo mulch
echo geyser
Maybe a lot of vers gear
hasty siren
!trinkets
echo geyser
Seems double step is nice on ryg?
echo geyser
I havent got far
limber lion
Seems double step is nice on ryg?
What would you use step on?
You're glued to the boss 24/7
tranquil lodge
Seems double step is nice on ryg?
its nice, but you can do without
echo geyser
I dont know, the thingy inside the phase
limber lion
Yeah I mean
echo geyser
Then back to boss
hasty siren
Sigil/IQD > Phial
Wish i had those. Was looking for info on the cache of weapons trinket.
limber lion
Wish i had those. Was looking for info on the cache of weapons trinket.
!cache
prisma monolithBOT
Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand
drowsy parcel
you playing venthyr or necro for rygelon cev?
limber lion
:)
limber lion
you playing venthyr or necro for rygelon cev?
Venthyr, it's just a lot more straightforward and less stressful
drowsy parcel
its kinda the same thing? you can be real active sniping mfds as venthyr
drowsy parcel
ye i feel you
limber lion
Just wanna play it safe and focus on mechanics first
before trying to go full sicko mode on resetting
I asked if I should go full single target on boss or play for cleave/add damage
and I was told to just go full st boss deeps
limber lion
Yeh, Lords is a freebie so once you get Anduin down you'll be smacking Rygelon soon after
hybrid vale
I have yet to see any of the top parses play fae on any fight but all the guides say it’s bis st with 4pc 🤔😐
brazen zodiac
good morning !
whole wadi
guides prolly not updated to venth tech yet
limber lion
I have yet to see any of the top parses play fae on any fight but all the guides...
Guides have not been updated unfortunately.
Venthyr is the dominant choice.
You can read about it in the pins
limber lion
Yep
Venthyr still best on most fights
Necrolord is fine on Guardian, Pantheon and Lords
And Rygelon honestly
steel ridge
Isnt the second best halondrus assa log a necro? Might be me seeing things
glass tulip
set and forget a bonespike on each quasar + matter?
limber lion
Isnt the second best halondrus assa log a necro? Might be me seeing things
The second best public assa log, yes
steel ridge
Ah okay
limber lion
But it's still much much worse than Venthyr
steel ridge
theres secrecy
hybrid vale
I saw this log
limber lion
?
hybrid vale
He only had 2 pc
limber lion
Not true
hybrid vale
He may just be a god at the game
hybrid vale
Oh oh
steel ridge
Still quite the feat
hybrid vale
He had a completely different build than what’s recommended here too
limber lion
But it's so much worse than Venthyr
The #1 public log is 1.5k ahead of the second log
lol
limber lion
He had a completely different build than what’s recommended here too
Yeah
Because he plays a build
he's comfortable with
And that's why he does 1.5k less damage
steel ridge
What a loser 
limber lion
Afto only plays Necrolord
Nothing else
So he doesn't want to change builds for progression
and would rather focus on mechanics
and playing what's comfortable for him
instead of playing an optimal build sub-optimally and risk failing mechanics because of it
hybrid vale
Oh there’s no where in these pins that say why master assassin is the pick over subterfuge. Pretty sure guides don’t recommend it either so why is it meta now
limber lion
Oh there’s no where in these pins that say why master assassin is the pick over ...
You always play Master Assa as Venthyr
steel ridge
instead of playing an optimal build sub-optimally and risk failing mechanics bec...
That should be the primary advice to the average player
limber lion
That has been the case since 9.0
And has not changed with the tier set
It is still the same thing
Same with MFD, we play both MFD and MA as Venth
hybrid vale
I’m with Afro, fuck venthyr
limber lion
Necrolord is massively behind on single target
But you do you
Doesn't really matter
Play what you find fun
hybrid vale
But peeps are literally all running the same build on logs when you say fae is only 300 dps behind
Kinda sheepy
limber lion
?
Why
Would you play Night Fae
when Venthyr does more damage
that's the entire point
That's why you see only Venthyr
because everyone plays the better build
becasue it does more damage
you don't see night fae
because it's worse
drowsy parcel
cant pay me to play bluecuck
glass tulip
that is literally what logs measure
hybrid vale
Rather be the edge lord 😰
hybrid vale
Why the fuck are you assa then
zinc frost
Yeah so sheepy everyone playing a build that performs best
hybrid vale
Cmon bro
hybrid vale
Sub is better
marble hemlock
Afto only plays Necrolord
true chad
limber lion
Because Sub sucks dick
hybrid vale
At everything
hybrid vale
You play the build that’s the most dmg