assassination

[oak sky]

tier tomorrow

er today

[limber lion]

But it's the other way around

With tier it's a good cd

Without it's useless

[oak sky]

mmmm

[limber lion]

Vendetta actually sucks

[oak sky]

like ye

but also like at least you get another one with dusk

[vestal wren]

vendetta is okay-ish its just that some classes have busted cooldowns

vendetta was a huge cooldown back in legion

nothing rly changed to it, just other systems have a lot more impact

[limber lion]

Yeh but you not getting optimal use out of Vend will not mess up with the cdr or anything if you don't play dusk

You lose out on much less without tier set

[oak sky]

tbh i couldve still been sin but i had my heart set on playing sub for a couple fights

[limber lion]

Yeh

[oak sky]

in farm im a hard one trick tho

i just want to experience it

[vestal wren]

the tier set kinda breaks some baseline things for the spec for sure

as to make it less forgiving

[hollow dirge]

Vendetta is underwhelming in addition to being target related. Not sure how many specs have target related main cd, but I always hated that.
Make two vendettas on same cd, on can give 30% dmg to specific target and other can grant 20% to all targets.

[vestal wren]

sin was always (and i hope i don't upset anyone with this), the spec that was fairly straight forward/simple

[limber lion]

Nah Vendetta just needs to be a self-buff

That's it

[hollow dirge]

Even better

[vestal wren]

so you mean vendetta needs to become symbols of death ?

[limber lion]

Just like everything else

[winged moss]

Btw are we lining together vendetta and flag or just use them on cd ?

[limber lion]

Yes

[vestal wren]

next thing you want is to have ct baseline

[limber lion]

Yes

[vestal wren]

and fok generate cp on a per target base

[limber lion]

Please :)

[vestal wren]

😛

[frosty cedar]

CT on single target feels good

[vestal wren]

subltetifying assassination

[frosty cedar]

now I can pretend CT is baseline

[hollow dirge]

I’d be fine with 3 combos per use, capped😂

[limber lion]

Good thing PB is dog

[winged moss]

Which one? 😂

[oak sky]

definitely dont want this personally

[vestal wren]

they did secret tech dirty

[limber lion]

Yes.

Nah but sync them together with 4p

[torpid sluice]

CT baseline, Tornado of Knives in the place of CT? 😂

[limber lion]

Just send on cd without

[vestal wren]

also i still find it odd how the damage calculation of bp/ct differs

just to re-iterate that

[winged moss]

Omg

[vestal wren]

subtlety BP did less damage for quite some time that the initial hit of CT

[winged moss]

Thx @limber lion

[frosty cedar]

Make FOK generate cp based on the amount of bleeding targets it hits

Venemous CP

[dim tide]

PB baseline, Vendetta selfbuff, FoK CP per target and i'm happy

[vestal wren]

i mean, for me it seems like sub/sin just have diffrent ressource management strategies

energy becomes a "capped" ressource on sin in multi target

[oak sky]

AND??

[hollow dirge]

Pb should be on use and deal increased dmg per bleed on target, with the baseline dmg being super low but for targets with bleeds on decently high.
Make the choice between two aoe builds be pb bursty, ct slower but overall stronger.
That way, pb would be a tyra pick, ct a fortified and it’s be nice to play around it

[oak sky]

bro we arent getting any of those

[limber lion]

Np @winged moss

[vestal wren]

while combo points become a "capped" ressource on sub in multi target

adding combo point and energy capping for sin, does in that sense seem a bit odd

[rotund oak]

Most ambitiously unrealistic ''wants'' for assa ive ever read tbh 😅

make CT apply rupture

that would make some ''bleed'' diff

[gaunt halo]

Meanwhile I'd be happy already if they'd just remove the soothe from shiv

[rotund oak]

would greatly synergize with shiv as well

magnifying your ''aoe''

[vestal wren]

the aoe rotation of sin could become a lot simpler if they allow Ct ticks to also generate ressources

^^

[rotund oak]

true

[oak sky]

dont even want simple

tho

and the energy already saturates really fast

[hollow dirge]

That would be boring. That wold be proper sub rotation

[oak sky]

CT change wouldnt even buff aoe

[vestal wren]

I mean, people always complain how difficult the aoe roation is of sin

[hollow dirge]

Aoe rotation is perfect. Just make it more rewarding

[vestal wren]

(even tho i kind of don't with that given past iterations of the specs had more complex ones and nobody cared)

[hollow dirge]

What sucks about sin aoe rotation is the effort to gain ratio

[zinc frost]

It’s more of an issue of putting in effort to do sin aoe with no actual dmg

[vestal wren]

effort to gain is simple tuning

[hollow dirge]

Not just effort ratio. Effort is nice. Effort is fun

[hollow dirge]

Agreed.

[oak sky]

this sin rotation has a lot of moving parts but its basically just spam ruptures and build

[vestal wren]

maybe it has, but it also is easy to play out usually

[gaunt halo]

Luckily we get a huge 30% buff to FoK soon. So we'll be the king in aoe...right guys?

[vestal wren]

it does not mean that somehting that can be complex e.g. in a apl needs to be hard to execute

well... i mean for sub that could be the case sometimes

[drowsy parcel]

you know what aoe buff asssassin really needs

put fok off the gcd

[vestal wren]

e.g. ER/sht, Backstab use during dance and some other more recent changes are not that "easy" to do as they might seem

[oak sky]

[vestal wren]

idk kayl

[oak sky]

wait like

like shuriken tornado

🤔

[drowsy parcel]

put some bleeds out and go BRRRR

[vestal wren]

that sounds like free typewriter's cramp

[vestal wren]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=277925/shuriken-tornado

off gcd would mean you could spam it to the amount of energy you generate

[oak sky]

sure

[vestal wren]

what sounds terrible

[oak sky]

but tornado effectively gives you 4 off gcd storms

[vestal wren]

thats trie

*true

[drowsy parcel]

having a dps ability off gcd does in fact sound very painful

[oak sky]

lets play who can make a spam macro the fastest

[vestal wren]

btw.

i rly like the idea that aoe builder with the buff are worth using on 3 targets

kind of always felt a bit wierd to not use fok on 3

[gaunt halo]

Keeping poisons up on all 3 should be easier that way

But overall it will not change much I think. In most of my m+ logs fok is like 10-15% of overall. And that is with venthyr. Necrolord profits even less

[oak sky]

in m+ fok should be maybe 4% at most

idk

at least thats what i usually see

[gaunt halo]

As necro?

[oak sky]

idk when my last key was as venth

prob last week

[limber lion]

Yeh, Venthyr uses FoK quite a bit more than Necro

[gaunt halo]

Like as necro 5% makes sense since you replace a lot of fok casts with bonespike. But as venth mines higher than that usually

[limber lion]

It's a 1% increase.

[oak sky]

i definitely feel like fok is pretty small no matter what i play

[limber lion]

So very massive.

[balmy condor]

last time I played necro sin fok was 1.5% of my damage at the end of a key

that seems to be about in line with what I see from logs too

[limber lion]

DS too good

[vestal wren]

^ fok is like 6% after the buff in dungeon slice

[balmy condor]

[gaunt halo]

Yeah around 6% is what most of the venth top logs say aswell. Makes me wonder why mine is so high

[vestal wren]

secret hidden blades tech?

[pseudo hamlet]

With the FoK buff we will be replacing Well-placed Steel conduit with Poisoned Katar in fortified keys?

Or still not worth it?

[limber lion]

Ultimately does not matter whatsoever

[balmy condor]

can't you just tell me which of these ~3% choices are the most 3%

[oak sky]

could be a lot of things, not using finishers enough, rotational mistakes

[gaunt halo]

After checking sone more logs I think it's mainly fort vs tyra

[oak sky]

yeah that could be

m+ logs can be a little weird anyways

[gaunt halo]

Fort top logs are closer to 10-12% aswell for fok damage

[vestal wren]

PK might be worth it with high pull counts

but for dungeon slice, does not seem to be the case

even tho its close in value

losing the jucy 0.2% dps from going PK 😨

[subtle tundra]

holy fuCK

THESE NUMBERS

MAKE ME COOM

[spice spire]

You good mister varas?

[subtle tundra]

no im fucking desperate

[spice spire]

[subtle tundra]

im leaving, bye, this was my contribution.

[bitter badger]

so we're using MA instead of Subterfuge? And should i use vigor or 6cp talent in this setup?

[spice spire]

MA and you use marked for death

Both of which is to maximize your flag windows

[bitter badger]

thanks for the reply!

oh and do i use poison bomb or CT?

[spice spire]

CT with 4p, pb without, assuming raid

[bitter badger]

okie dokie

[winter gale]

Venthyr is bis covenant for mythic+ too?

[vestal wren]

maybe, it sims quite good now

[winter gale]

Are conduits same for both raiding and m+, or?

[vestal wren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vestal wren]

nope wasteland sims higher in m+

whats kinda given group benefits

[spice spire]

Probably gonna lean toward Necro on this, but venthyr still good

[vestal wren]

necro is just nicer in multi target

[winter gale]

I want it to be like that, I came back to the game and there is so much to remember and switch. I would rather have different cov/soulbinds for different content than switching 24/7 😂

Always having 2nd thoughts did I forget anything

[vestal wren]

just play subtlety

raid kyrian
m+ venthyr

[spice spire]

It’s also worth noting that venthyr is only best when you have 4p + double legendary

[vestal wren]

i consider double legendary a standard/default by now

[spice spire]

Someone labeled just returning, always best to make sure

[winter gale]

Yes, thats on me from 1st moment it came out

But far far away from 4set

[spice spire]

In the pins there are some numbers.
But essentially venthyr is fine in raid throughout

[winter gale]

Have onepiece and its from normal. I have 3 chances tonight though.

Ill maybe rather go sub as Fuu said

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

Nah just play Warlock

[winter gale]

Haha, 140k ST

[limber lion]

highest st damage

and highest aoe damage

what's not to like

[winter gale]

I will die as a rogue

[spice spire]

PI is the problem trust

[vestal wren]

arn't fire mages now better pi targets than wls?

[limber lion]

yes

but that's the meme

[spice spire]

Demolock has historically topped, but I wouldn’t doubt it.
They’ve been 1/2

[limber lion]

of warlock players complaining about getting nerfed because of pi

[vestal wren]

will suck for all the wl players

[limber lion]

they will still be #1 dps even without pi

so nothing really changes lol

[vestal wren]

i did see a mage sim

and mage did without pi rogue damage

[frosty cedar]

fire mage is 17k I think now

on sim at least

[limber lion]

yikes

[spice spire]

[frosty cedar]

might be more optimisations thats just me running the overrides

[subtle tundra]

My mage going fire now?!?

[spice spire]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-jessie-pinkman-breaking-bad-he-cant-keep-getting-away-with-it-gif-5612942

[solid venture]

Fuck mages

[frosty cedar]

thing is, I have never played with a good mage. so idk

[subtle tundra]

They can omegapump

[frosty cedar]

its got to be the most pleb inflated class

[spice spire]

Fire mage has its one bad tier, now it’s back to 12 great tiers

[vestal wren]

one of our mages tried to iceblock on rygelon

spoiler: he died

[spice spire]

[frosty cedar]

pala buffs are quite nice too tho. allegedly 17.4k now with gavel, talent changes and a few optimisations to trinkets

gavel kinda giga omega busted tho

[vestal wren]

lol

and our paladin officer was iirc still complaining about the buff being to low

[frosty cedar]

feels kinda like .5 patch tier of buffs

[vestal wren]

i am unsure tbh

balancing in general is very non transparent

what is somewhat a issue

[subtle tundra]

I know an issue. Assa aoe

We a bit of an issue

[ashen scroll]

30% fok buff surely changes things

[drifting cosmos]

fok on 3t, big change

🤔 if they increase fok by like 200%, will we be close to sub?

[ashen scroll]

It might be equal

Maybe

Then you might run hidden blades? The fok talent

[drifting cosmos]

nah nvm, we prob will be using fok on st

[ashen scroll]

That sounds really really bad lmao

[drifting cosmos]

there is no way to buff sin m+ i guess

[ashen scroll]

Double ct dam

Then sin would probably be better

[drifting cosmos]

and you ct on st, bang, broken

[ashen scroll]

You already do

[drifting cosmos]

oh yea nvm, i havent got 4p yet lol

pray 10.0

[glossy jewel]

!blindside

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[normal mist]

You do it at 2/4 too

[thin imp]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[vestal wren]

i even forgot that this video/command exists ^^

[glossy jewel]

does it still work though? never seen it before, was just checking bot commands

[vestal wren]

yes

[bitter badger]

how much haste is the best for ST and AOE? i currently have 23% haste and 35% crit

[bleak sky]

No such thing as best stat %

Just sim it and roll with it

[balmy condor]

obligated to post meme

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[spice spire]

Amen mister whispyr

[normal mist]

You gotta pin that

[limber lion]

nope

[normal mist]

It was a joke

[zinc frost]

Wishing you all have a stacked vault for reset

[spice spire]

You as well ruptured

[glass tulip]

4 set not inc

[balmy condor]

You gotta pin me

Down on like a table

Or the floor works

Whatever surface

You pick

[zinc frost]

https://tenor.com/view/horny-jail-bonk-dog-hit-head-stop-being-horny-gif-17298755

[umbral rapids]

[hollow river]

[normal mist]

[timid cloud]

Bryan told me that Rogue is a ||scaling class||

[normal mist]

Delete that b4 whispyr, who is probably down on a table, sees it

He can be scary sometimes

[rotund oak]

😂

[normal mist]

Yesterday I tried to farm some pf 15's as sub and in disappointed

[rotund oak]

same,also dont like sub in PF for some reason

besides the pug experience

ild pick outlaw for PF anyday of week

[hollow river]

I mean it just depends on how your tank pulls the dungeon

I did a 17 pf for vault last night was fine as sub

[rotund oak]

its alot of things,density might vary from that,its true

[hollow river]

There’s still a couple small packs you end up doing if you’re trying to be safe and don’t have aoe stops, like the Corrosive slimes or w/e

[rotund oak]

Personally finding outlaw behaving better on all bosses pretty much

yeah for sure,but still outlaw just sits better in ym head

[hollow river]

Sub is really good on the 3rd boss because you can funnel it every time it spawns adds

[lunar otter]

boys rekon 2 set go necro ?

for m+ ?

[slim wagon]

3rd boss is literally sub heaven though, and the only boss where there is a huge difference in performance

[hollow river]

Prolly necro for m+ even with 4p

[rotund oak]

yeah sub funnels assassins

in spider

[hollow river]

Sub also pretty good at killing the explosive slime on 2nd boss

[noble tree]

3rd boss is also heaven for ow

Free marks

[hollow river]

Idk I like any boss as sub generally

[slim wagon]

the boss damage difference is huge, take that from a pusher who would prefer to play outlaw

[rotund oak]

sub does more dam in spider for sure

[hollow river]

Only boss I’d take another spec for is first boss Spires

But meh

[noble tree]

noone will perfer to play outlaw

[rotund oak]

ild take outlaw over anything if it was not as sht as it is

ild literally refund all ym leggos

to play outlaw

thats how inlove i am with the spec

and i wouldnt hesitate

not for a second

[hollow river]

Everyone has their preferences I guess

But outlaw pretty dog atm

[noble tree]

look my role

And chat channels where i write smth

[rotund oak]

not spying or sniping on ppl but good to see 👌

[normal mist]

I mean I havent played sub this season but yesterday i wanted to know the impact 2/4 had and either I'm really bad as sub rn (doing overalls of 8/9) or the spec just isnt for me.
Then went back to assa (always the same tank btw) and 12+

[gaunt halo]

Did you optimize your gear for sub or did you run with the assa gear?

[normal mist]

I did

Had like 36crit 20 vers

With hc eon

[gaunt halo]

But I guess being used to the spec helps a lot. For me it was the same. Roughly the same dmg output on sub, just because I suck at it

[rotund oak]

sub is a different mind set

my head works better with sub on pvp

kinda need to break ur mind into those ''dance windows''

[bleak sky]

my damage was bad when I first started playing sub as well

now it's not

gotta get used to it

[trim cairn]

Bruh ngl but how are you doing overalls lower with sub when it's a 2 button spec for m+

[normal mist]

Yes thats true, as i said yesterday or the day b4, i did all 20's last season for portal as sub

[gaunt halo]

Yeah it's easy to just fall back into your comfort zone. When I switch to sub I watch my actionbars a ton and mess up interrupts and stuff. Just needs practice

[trim cairn]

You literally press Shuriken Storm + Black Powder and you do 20k+ dps on 5 targets

[rotund oak]

u dont do 20k+

but u do alot

[trim cairn]

I can do it on dummies for you

if you want

lol

Gimme a sec

[rotund oak]

if u dont dance on ss+bp

[normal mist]

Venthyr dummies arent like 6/7 targets?

[rotund oak]

u dont do 20k+

ive tested the spec since ptr and playing it now

in and out

no need to do anything

also its a gear thing

[sonic schooner]

Dummies with no armor no dodging ?

🙄

[rotund oak]

also,depends the 2p proc

coz u can proc blades and pump like mad

[normal mist]

On s.t dummie had that 44% of the time during 4.5M

[gaunt halo]

In the end people don't pick rogue for huge aoe anyways, so if there is a prio target better make sure you funnel eviscerates instead

[rotund oak]

exactly

funnel is rly valuable dam

for m+

[trim cairn]

Of course, but that makes assa a dead spec in m+ ngl

[gaunt halo]

Assa can funnel nicely aswell. But sub is just better in most aspects

[rotund oak]

sub is superior to the other rogue specs

[normal mist]

I wouldnt say that assa is dead

[rotund oak]

assa has the potential to win vs sub on ST though

[trim cairn]

Must have been lucky cuz I tested now and was around 17.5k to 18k

[normal mist]

We just do what others do, but worse

[trim cairn]

But buffless now though

[bleak sky]

ehhh

[rotund oak]

nw we all do mistakes or overestimate 😛

[trim cairn]

and no grinding stones

[gaunt halo]

Also i think dead spec is a bit extreme. Unless you push at zhe very top end all 3 rogue specs are just fine

[bleak sky]

you don't generate consistently enough to funnel

[trim cairn]

Yes, but I love assassination

But it's really unviable feels like for m+

I feel forced to play sub

Because I can't pump stuns on demand

Can't funnel properly

Only 1 shadowstep for mobility

[gaunt halo]

It's no comparison to the sub funnel. But it's still somewhat of a funnel with enough crit and targets

[trim cairn]

cant vanish shadowstrike for mobility

[normal mist]

Frixx you doing 25+ right?

[limber lion]

not sure what you need the extra shadowsteps for

I very rarely come across a moment where I need extra shadowsteps

[rotund oak]

PF last boss,slam overlaps the tendies sometimes

[limber lion]

You mount between packs and during the packs there's not much running around

[bleak sky]

extra shadowstep is only really valuable on Xav

[trim cairn]

Dude this is like seeing Elden Ring boss posts

[bleak sky]

and that's about it

[trim cairn]

People saying Malenia was ez don't see the problem xd

[bleak sky]

it's just that the extra mobility isn't necessary

that's all

[rotund oak]

it always is

[trim cairn]

Sure, but it's better than only having one

[normal mist]

Not even in the first boss of pf where we get knocked back, it is necessary

[rotund oak]

u can set up stuff with double step

[limber lion]

Quite a far-fetched comparison ngl

[bleak sky]

sub has a lot going on, but extra mobility ehhhh

[limber lion]

When you literally don't need it

[trim cairn]

No, just because you mean it is worthless doesn't mean it is worthless

[limber lion]

If Assa did more damage, you would be playing Assa in m+

[trim cairn]

Yes, I would

[limber lion]

even with that extra shadowstep on sub

lol

[trim cairn]

But assa doesnt have anything

Better than sub

[rotund oak]

I dont think its about dam

[bleak sky]

...yes

[trim cairn]

Subpar aoe, subpar mobility, subpar cc

[rotund oak]

during bfa

[bleak sky]

it is about damage lol

[trim cairn]

Even though I think Assa is more fun

I love playing assa

[bleak sky]

you don't play a bad damage spec

[rotund oak]

assa fok spam was the most intense aoe burst int eh game

[limber lion]

you didn't play Sub in BFA

[rotund oak]

still played outlaw

[limber lion]

because it was terrible

Sub had more cc and more mobility in BFA as well

[rotund oak]

assa

[limber lion]

but you never played it

because it did no damage

[indigo mulch]

Sub was so awful in bfa.

[limber lion]

and that's how m+ is and always will be

If a spec does more damage, you play that spec

[trim cairn]

I wouldn't know because I thought BFA was so bad I didn't even bother to cap a character

[normal mist]

Unless you are an assa lover who sucks at sub

[rotund oak]

lol no,u are very dogmatic here i think

damage is not eveyrhting

[bleak sky]

ok sap

you want to bring a rogue

which one do you bring? the one that deals massive damage + insane cc, the one with medium both or the one with shit both?

[rotund oak]

Ild bring the spec that helps the group overall with his kit

[slim wagon]

but if it was just about damage you would not bring a rogue.

[rotund oak]

mobility-utility survivability

[trim cairn]

So Sub

[bleak sky]

you clearly don't play m+

[gaunt halo]

It just depends on what you're aiming for. If you wanna do really high keys go sub. But if you run somewhat lower keys assa and outlaw are fine

[indigo mulch]

Mobility is not even a consideration in m+ though.

[bleak sky]

yes, they're fine, but they're still shit

[limber lion]

That's just not true

If a spec outperforms the other spec in damage by a fuck ton

you bring that spec

[rotund oak]

lol no

[limber lion]

??????

[bleak sky]

wtf

[indigo mulch]

What??

[limber lion]

How many sub rogues did you see in BFA

Are you fucking drunk or

Literally 0

because no one played that shit spec

[rotund oak]

Who said anything on bfa?

[limber lion]

because it did negative damage

[rotund oak]

for sub rogues

[limber lion]

what the fuck

[rotund oak]

i literally said assa fok spam

[bleak sky]

how many outlaw rogues do you see right now?

they're incredibly tanky, super mobile, and have great cc

[trim cairn]

what

[bleak sky]

why don't you bring them?

[trim cairn]

I must have missed something

[rotund oak]

because sub can funnel otulaw cant and has a better dmg profile

also can stun better than outlaw

[trim cairn]

Outlaw rogues die like flies, have a longer cd on their mobility unless pumping CPs, and cc is not on par with sub?

[bleak sky]

so the reasoning is: sub actually does damage

got it

[limber lion]

[bleak sky]

we have the same defensive set

[rotund oak]

in that specific comparison it does ye,that doesnt apply eveyrwhere

[bleak sky]

hello?

[limber lion]

Sap you're drunk

go get some rest

[trim cairn]

Yes, so you saying other specs are as tanky. Making the point moot

[gaunt halo]

I think you could make an argument for utility if the dps is close. But it's not right now

[bleak sky]

rogue is incredibly tanky

[limber lion]

Yeah

You only consider utility and whatever if the specs are close

[trim cairn]

Then why bring up the point as if the spec is any more tanky

lol

[limber lion]

When they are not, it's not a thing to consider

[bleak sky]

I didn't?

wtf

yall need to learn how to read

[trim cairn]

they're incredibly tanky

Not relevant to the spec

[bleak sky]

[limber lion]

why you tagging me foo

[rotund oak]

bruh,never said sub and bfa ever,literally,tag that comment,u are confusing me 😄

[gaunt halo]

I think sub is a little more tanky due to stacking vers naturally. But that's probably minor

[limber lion]

I did

That's why I said

you're drunk

because you're not reading what other people are typing

[bleak sky]

you bring a spec to M+ because they're highly tuned

[limber lion]

That's how the specs have worked since Legion

You bring the spec that does the most damage

[bleak sky]

it's not a mystery

[limber lion]

That's true for every expansion

every patch

You always want 1 rogue for the shroud

and you bring the rogue that does the most damage

doesn't matter if it's sub or assa or outlaw

[rotund oak]

i think u are watching how specs work in comparison to how assa works to the other two specs

[limber lion]

We played 4x Outlaw in BFA because it did the most damage

[limber lion]

No

[trim cairn]

I agree with all of the above, and my point is that assa is neither of those right now

[limber lion]

This is true for every single spec in the game

[trim cairn]

It doesnt have damage, it doesnt have cc

[bleak sky]

no cev's saying you bring what does damage

it's not that hard to understand

idk

[limber lion]

This is not a comparison between Assa and other specs

this is generalization

and how things work in this videogame

for all specs

[rotund oak]

yeah its not,why take a sub rogue when fury does more damage

and has a party cd

[limber lion]

You bring the warlock that does the most damage

you don't care about the spec

Affli does the most damage? bring it

[royal cliff]

This man is trolling way too hard for how slowly my coffee is working

[limber lion]

Marksman hunter does more damage than BM? bring the MM

[rotund oak]

idk man,im casting doubt on this

[limber lion]

You're dumb

That's all

[bleak sky]

feels like you need to run more dungeons

[rotund oak]

maybe 😛

[limber lion]

We have literally never played a spec in m+

[royal cliff]

You're casting doubt on your own logic, no one else is catching your doubt bug

[bleak sky]

or at least higher ones

[limber lion]

because it had more cc

you do realize

that m+ is a timed thing

and you need damage more than anything else

eventually you get so high

[torn atlas]

Umm, Is mutilated flesh buffed by shiv 2pc?

[limber lion]

where nothing else matters

but the damage

[limber lion]

yes, still not great.

[royal cliff]

Theyre talking about bringing the highest dps subclass of an overall class and your next comment is about rogue vs fury

[trim cairn]

The initial discussion started when I said assa is a dead spec

Because it has no damage and no cc

Fucking worthless spec

[gaunt halo]

eventually you get so high where nothing else matters
Words to live by

[trim cairn]

Despite me loving assa

[limber lion]

It's not worthless

[trim cairn]

It is

[limber lion]

It's worthless when you start pushing for keys

where damage matters

[trim cairn]

I read first 2 lines

It's worthless

[limber lion]

where you literally physically cannot

[trim cairn]

xd

[limber lion]

complete the key in time

[royal cliff]

yeah i mean spam silence to start a pull when everyone plays prot pally eliminates the only thing it had lol

[limber lion]

And exactly

You're saying the exact same thing

Literally nothing else matters

but damage

but Sapzilla is drunk or something

and saying the complete opposite

[slim wagon]

yeah no, other things matter

[limber lion]

where he thinks damage doesn't matter

and only cc/utility does

which is just not true

[slim wagon]

nobody brought sub rogues in mists for the damage during the maze

[bleak sky]

that's just sap

[sonic schooner]

Mogs matter 😔

[rotund oak]

..

[royal cliff]

He's not even saying the opposite, you're talking about apples to apples and the homie is talking about apples to oranges

[slim wagon]

your job was literally to just stop all stalkers and guardians while the rest did damage

[normal mist]

Chat is way too fast rn

[rotund oak]

ok im wrong for saying damage is not what u bring ppl for as a factor

[limber lion]

eyyy

[rotund oak]

idk,someone is not doing keys in here,dunno if its me 😉

[limber lion]

how long have you played this game Sap?

2 weeks?

lmao

[sonic schooner]

I mean about cc u want aoe cc, not a rogue, what does bring rogue : shroud feint evasion cloak vanish sap blind and currently great ammount of dmg in aoe and st

[torn atlas]

ty

[limber lion]

Because let me tell you, nothing in m+ matters more than the actual damage a spec brings.

[rotund oak]

u would be embarrased on how much played ive got in jsut 1 rogue(out of the 3 im playing)

[sonic schooner]

We re just missing aoe cc in our kit

[torn atlas]

So theoretically, if I had no zold, would Doom or Dusk be better on keys. I assume you would still be FoKing all packs so Doom would be irrelevant to consider? No 4pc

[limber lion]

If there's 2 specs that perform very similarly, you bring the one that has more cc or utility

If a spec does twice the damage of a spec with more utility, you bring the one that does more damage

[royal cliff]

Why would he be embarrassed?

[limber lion]

That's why we ran 4 Outlaw Rogues in BFA

Because they did mega damage

not because they had crazy cc

[bleak sky]

you're not really doing keys though, for the range you're running anything goes and it doesn't matter

[royal cliff]

At first glance your social awareness is similar to my 4 year old niece

[limber lion]

They did so much damage where you didn't even want to bring a healer

and instead just brought in an extra rogue

to pump even harder

[trim cairn]

Sounds fun

Ngl

[rotund oak]

very true,not doing keys srsly,just farm gear now

[trim cairn]

What happened to Rogues after that

[royal cliff]

All their saying is that with a class all things being equal (which they aren't even because sub has more utility) you take the subclass with the most dps

they're*

[limber lion]

Yeah

You bring the class, not the spec

You need a rogue, so you bring a rogue

and you bring the spec that does the most dps

if you need a hunter, you bring a hunter

no matter what spec it is

[royal cliff]

Why would you take an arms warrior right now when fury exists

[limber lion]

if you need a warrior, you bring a warrior

[trim cairn]

Meme factor

[limber lion]

doesn't matter if it's arms or fury

[royal cliff]

well it does if dmg is what youre discussing lol

[limber lion]

just take the one that does more deeps

[royal cliff]

right

okay same page

[trim cairn]

But why bring rogues when you have pots that give the same utility tbh

Rogues dead useless class?

[royal cliff]

there are niche situations where you take arms but thats only happening if the delta in dmg isnt too big and the utility of an aoe taunt/dbts drops necro stacks

[trim cairn]

Just stack two warlocks and a hunter

bring invis pots

you see locks pumping 400k dps

[royal cliff]

i mean theres a ton of utility outside of shroud tho, but i see what you're saying

being able to literally tab stun in high keys is still very strong

[rotund oak]

funnel dam and stops

no other class can do that many

[trim cairn]

Shit dude if you need to funnel damage when you got 3 players pumping 200k dps

[rotund oak]

aoe to ST

[gaunt halo]

Most of the time you take the rogue for prio damage. Othrrs might be pumping in overall but then you end up with a big high health traget

[rotund oak]

cant say the same type

[trim cairn]

Idk if a rogue funneling 15k dps will matter

[rotund oak]

like monk did 250k aoe

and tank dam on bosses

[thin imp]

U still need funnel damage even if ppl are pumping 100k dps

[gaunt halo]

Do a hoa with a good rogue and you'll see how much it matters on shards

[sonic schooner]

100k dps on 15 target isnt 25k dps on 1 target

:3

[trim cairn]

It's not 100k dps on 15 targets tho

It's 400k dps on 15 targets

Fucking watching a lock press 1 button

10 times

[sonic schooner]

yyea actually more accurate xD

[bleak sky]

it's not 15k

[rotund oak]

its impossible to hold a good grasp on how rogue works in m+ when we talk only for dam and generalize on the entire game

[bleak sky]

[rotund oak]

as a bigger picture

thats what i believe

but im drunk

[royal cliff]

if you aren't dying during the shard aoe though the funnel dmg is still making the key progress slower than the aoe en masse

that's more a healer throughput conversation

[trim cairn]

How much is your evis hitting? omegalol

[bleak sky]

you funnel to kill things evenly

not to save the healer

wtf

yall don't do keys

[limber lion]

This is a funny chart. Ya'll say that they bring rogues to every single group for the cc, yet still Rogue (and more particularly Sub, which is our most played spec) is being played less than every single class in the game

[royal cliff]

lol are you okay bro

[trim cairn]

I say rogue is a dead class

[royal cliff]

the conversation about funneling into a shard is to kill it before it kills your group

[trim cairn]

assa is a dead spec

[spice spire]

Wtf is this 7:30 AM assassination chat

[bleak sky]

it isn't

[hollow escarp]

14:37

[thin imp]

still if you are doing 400k dps and there are 20 mobs and a halkia with bolstering and kill 19 mobs except halkia ur fucked

[bleak sky]

you kill stuff even

[torn atlas]

wait, Feral get taken more than Outlaw and Sin?

[royal cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/thumbs-up-borat-very-nice-gif-24526604

[limber lion]

Yes sir

[rotund oak]

yet all top pushing teams in the game play a sub rogue

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[spice spire]

This is correct, outside of the hardcore OTPs

[sonic schooner]

Actually i d disagree ceve because every group are like Lock Hunt War/monk, rogues arent the shiny must have this patch

[limber lion]

Yes because you're playing in a top pushing team

Doing +30's

[gaunt halo]

Although with the recent dps numbers of some specs it makes me wonder how much you can even funnel before the low health mobs are dead

[rotund oak]

Because sub has the kit for that range of keys

and offers mroe than dam

check out ram and jpc

literally the leading rogue chads

even zerocoolx

[spice spire]

No chill

[trim cairn]

Dawg the problem here

[bleak sky]

man really said

[limber lion]

okay sap is just trolling

[bleak sky]

check out zerocool

[trim cairn]

Is that you think top players are machines always picking best meta

Watch pikaboo play necro in pvp despite the rest 49 of top 50 players play kyrian

[rotund oak]

cant see u anywhere near his range

[trim cairn]

xd

[bleak sky]

can't see you anywhere near my range

xd

[rotund oak]

calling dead ppl that claim world ranks

that doesnt counter argue zerocool being dead rogue

[limber lion]

any translators in the chat

[trim cairn]

xd

[peak bobcat]

Where’s Brian to explain this?

[royal cliff]

man im glad i came to rogue disc from warrior its way more wild in here today

[gaunt halo]

Sub currently just has everything. Best damage and utility. So just saying look at the top players doesn't really work for this argument. The question would be if people would play sub if assa and subs damage numbers would be switched. I'd say no

[sonic schooner]

Bryan Checkmod

[peak bobcat]

If Assa did more damage it would be played more

100%

[bleak sky]

shocker

[limber lion]

Yep

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[limber lion]

You bring the spec that does the most damage

[spice spire]

Wild concepts

Damage matters

[limber lion]

unheard of

[peak bobcat]

Why do you need to cc the mob if it is dead ?

[sonic schooner]

in the other hand, if lock does not their absurd dmg, they wouldnt be played

[limber lion]

damage matters in a time-based encounter???

[sonic schooner]

Vice versa

[limber lion]

whaaaaaaaat

[bleak sky]

yes

[limber lion]

the more damage you do, the faster mobs die and the faster you complete the key????

[bleak sky]

feel like we're going somewhere here

[limber lion]

whaaaaaaaat???

[spice spire]

Same shit every tier

[peak bobcat]

Lock wasn’t played in m+

[spice spire]

If x weren’t busted it wouldn’t be brought to top keys

Amen

[trim cairn]

But why bring a rogue to the top runs then?

[peak bobcat]

Because sub pumps lol

[valid pilot]

Hi, i'm reading in shadow this beautiful chan', i just wanna say thank you all the ppl who did the théorycraft & guide for rogue assa, love on you

[bleak sky]

some groups don't run rogues, some do

[trim cairn]

Looking at logs the best rogue in the world in m+ rn averages 15.5k dps in a dungeon compared to 20.5k on demo lock

[tropic echo]

how does fan cp generation work? i haven't played sin in so long i forget lol

[bleak sky]

1 cp baseline + 1cp per target crit

[trim cairn]

It doesnt

[spice spire]

Every crit =1 extra cp

[bitter badger]

press button, get luck

[tropic echo]

this was the answer i needed xd

[gaunt halo]

Yes, but different damage breakdown. More damage to prio targets than the other specs

[tropic echo]

i assumed it was something to do with crits because i remember reading crit pulls ahead as top stat in m+

[trim cairn]

Logs are in chinese but I'll try to check

[bleak sky]

there's a translate button on wcl

[peak bobcat]

Comparing any spec to demo lock is a bit unfair

[trim cairn]

What boss is 帕奇维克士兵

xd

[trim cairn]

Ye using it

just joking

[tropic echo]

i heard the nerf that demo is getting is like 10% nerf to their single target lol

[spice spire]

Gonna assume that’s either first NW or gorechop

[limber lion]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[trim cairn]

Apparently it's Patchwerk Soldier

[spice spire]

[trim cairn]

Ye so the Sub rogue did do like 300k more to bosses except last boss where he did 1m more than other specs

Probably by vanishing the banish hehe

[peak bobcat]

Just commit suicide and ask for brez

It’s faster

[trim cairn]

Though the anima exhaust did 7.57m of his total

[kindred oriole]

Sub rogue dmg is so RNG though. Any spec with high variance will look good if you only look at top parses.

[bleak sky]

it's a key

[peak bobcat]

It’s not that rng lol

It averages out

[rotund oak]

how is sub dmg rng

[trim cairn]

???????????????????????

[kindred oriole]

4p procs.

[bleak sky]

ok you're trolling

[trim cairn]

fucking tier set

wdym

[hollow escarp]

sheesh

[rotund oak]

😅

[hollow escarp]

I saw that

[rotund oak]

took u sometime

[trim cairn]

no, bro just no

xd

[peak bobcat]

Tier set is just a bonus on that spec

[trim cairn]

Highest parsing m+ rogue

[gusty mirage]

Oh god

[trim cairn]

Had to get boosted to jailer kills

oh god oh no dead class

[gusty mirage]

Why are we discussing the word “parse” and “m+•

[trim cairn]

/s

[gusty mirage]

What timeline did I wake up to

[peak bobcat]

Cringe behavior

[hollow escarp]

parse + mythic plus in the same sentence

[rotund oak]

there are m+ logs though

[bleak sky]

the one where non-m+ people are trying to explain how m+ works

[trim cairn]

I guess you suck at mentally parsing text xd

[bleak sky]

[trim cairn]

there are m+ logs

You can find them on warcraftlogs

[spice spire]

[rotund oak]

''u are not doing enough keys thats all''

[gusty mirage]

Insane, thanks for that tidbit of information

[rotund oak]

xD

[trim cairn]

Np m8 somebody needed to hear it

Looks like

[gusty mirage]

Had no idea that some people log their keys

[peak bobcat]

What am I going to find on there that I don’t already know? Sub rogue clicks 2 buttons?

[kindred oriole]

Sorry sorry didn't think you were talking about M+. Saw this person saying sub rogue was doing 300k on bosses and got the wrong impression.

[gusty mirage]

Never seen one of those before

[trim cairn]

300k on bosses in the m+

extra

[kindred oriole]

AH!

[trim cairn]

compared to other classes

We were discussing

viability of bringing a rogue

[peak bobcat]

Not playing with demo lock ?

Lol

[trim cairn]

He had demo lock there

Literally check logs instead of spitting sarcasm xd

[vestal wren]

where did brian go?

[gusty mirage]

Idk but we need him back

He ran a tight ship around here

[trim cairn]

True these comments are very much more relevant than the discussion

Thanks for your insight sir

[rotund oak]

yo where is the stream info

me wants

[gusty mirage]

Yo thanks for pinging me to be a smart ass

[peak bobcat]

What point are you trying to make?

[trim cairn]

Np bro I learn from the best

[gusty mirage]

You’re literally discussing mythic plus logs

You’re a clown

[peak bobcat]

That rogue is viable ?

We all know rogue is viable

Because it does damage

[rotund oak]

it doesnt,stop saying it does,rogue has a specific role and its more than dam

[trim cairn]

Someone said damage was everything and cc didnt matter and yet there are specs that do more damage so why not bring more of those and just bring invis pots

So they noted priority damage was king so I checked logs

And ye sure if you count anima exhaust as a part of rogue kit

then yes

if not then rogue is just weak

[bleak sky]

frixx

do you run keys?

[hollow escarp]

I'd suggest trying a ToP on fortified without rogue, or any short cd kicks 🙂

see how damage saves you

[trim cairn]

I'd suggest bringing that up with Minalba & gang

[marble hemlock]

the channel is supposed to be about the assassination rogue spec, but instead its just assassinating my patience

[kindred oriole]

LOL

[rotund oak]

me love u,dont kill 😦

[spice spire]

If this discourse is super important to you, let’s just bring it to #wow-general where you know, this is a relevant conversation

[stiff garden]

Dont care + ratio + sub is better + L

[bleak sky]

smells like a timeout

[spice spire]

Yellow name cozying up to sub

[stiff garden]

It be dark times

[marble hemlock]

Can they just buff outlaw some more so they dont invade here?

[gusty mirage]

They’re hooked on the dopamine rush of rolling numbers just right to do damage

[spice spire]

They’ll give BF 10 more percent

That’s all they got in the tank

[low girder]

Pistol Shot damage increased by 5%

[spice spire]

[vestal wren]

don't worry sub is the meta spec, you have your safe space

[marble hemlock]

clearly i dont, youre here 😦

[spice spire]

What was the more slap in the face buff, BF 10% or FoK 30%?

[trim cairn]

Wait your char is Minalbasap?

[bleak sky]

yep

[gusty mirage]

Blade flurry for sure

[trim cairn]

2.6k m+ rating? And talking like this?

Fucking omegaloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

[spice spire]

Oh yeah buddy

[bleak sky]

[hollow escarp]

no way

[trim cairn]

HAHA

[marble hemlock]

[hollow escarp]

io checking in this channel?

[marble hemlock]

it was just too good a setup to let pass, sorry fuu 🙂

[normal mist]

Now things are getting serious

[trim cairn]

Bro

Guy spoamming "do you even run keys"

[rotund oak]

ive got 2.6+and im being a humble troll just farming crit vers gear 😦

[trim cairn]

What a fucking joke ngl I'm out

[bleak sky]

[rotund oak]

hahaha

[marble hemlock]

my bard is 2.1k atm

[low girder]

stick the landing

[gusty mirage]

Huge

[bleak sky]

not running keys this season, you got me good there pal

[trim cairn]

Like jeez imagine qualifying statements with do you even run keys and you aren't beyond a casual married phleb workaholic

I fucking barely touch this game and I'm 2.6k

Jesus

[bleak sky]

huh

[peak bobcat]

Any seethers

[trim cairn]

Here

[bleak sky]

someone got vewy vewy upsetty

[gusty mirage]

You seem really angsty for someone who barely touches the game

[rotund oak]

btw,not that r.io matters and all but 2.6 and talking for keys and all to others,idk bruh

[marble hemlock]

how about touching some grass instead?

[low girder]

remember when he said he's out

[bleak sky]

I'm not running keys this season

it's not that hard to check io if you really want to

[low girder]

landing not stuck

[bleak sky]

in fact, I still haven't done a streets at all

and somehow we're same number

[rotund oak]

ik im not playing srsly either b4 4p either but bruh,cmon

[stiff garden]

But you need those conduits :O

[marble hemlock]

Is 2.6k something to brag about these days?

Isnt that like

[bleak sky]

no it's shit io

[marble hemlock]

All 17s or some shit

[bleak sky]

it's dog shit io

[trim cairn]

No, which was the point

[marble hemlock]

I thought your point was that you're out

[gusty mirage]

Idk I’ve seen some dogshit 3.1k IO peoples

[trim cairn]

Out of that discussion

[hollow escarp]

yo, stop calling me out

[low girder]

disappointment

[marble hemlock]

Oh, I guess we all got our hopes up for nothing

[gusty mirage]

I would never ily

[hollow escarp]

[low girder]

nice filter

[rotund oak]

HAHAHAH u are solid,stop giving urself this way

[stiff garden]

My guildies are 3k io lads and I outdps them as Outlaw in raids

[vestal wren]

[stiff garden]

Rating doesnt mean shit

[gusty mirage]

Double filter in 25 minutes. Impressive

[trim cairn]

Easy speedrun

[spice spire]

It seems no one headed my last recommendation

[bleak sky]

one more and you get a song request

[trim cairn]

Trying to time the key

[gusty mirage]

This man’s been filtered more times in half an hour than I have been in 3 years

Crazy

[spice spire]

Same

[trim cairn]

^ calling myself the R word and getting filtered

Thought you'd be cheering

[spice spire]

Nah, I don’t cheer for self deprecation

[trim cairn]

You should

Do you even run keys?

[stiff garden]

Whats even going on here

[trim cairn]

Fucking punchline of the century

[spice spire]

Why? Why do I want someone to hate themself?

[trim cairn]

xd

[trim cairn]

Not every word carries the weight of the world

[stiff garden]

I came in here just to talk shit but now I want to stay

[bleak sky]

idk, I ran decent keys as sin last season

[spice spire]

I mean he was a hair off of top 1% last season; but go off

[bleak sky]

this season I just don't want to play the game

doesn't change how keys work

[marble hemlock]

Nah

[rotund oak]

[marble hemlock]

Youre not allowed to talk

[subtle tundra]

i run keys and i shouldnt be allowed to talk

[marble hemlock]

Cause some Week 4 Keystone Master is here now trying to educate you, so you better sit down and listen.

[bleak sky]

TRUE you need help

[low girder]

top players can't be wrong ever

[bleak sky]

no talking, only help

[low girder]

it is known

[trim cairn]

Tell that to Do you even run keys Minalba

[gusty mirage]

Poor varas, man’s heart is shattered being forced to play sub

[trim cairn]

xd

[spice spire]

!mute @trim cairn 15m

[low girder]

minalba wasn't the one arguing that

[spice spire]

Take a breather, buddy

[stiff garden]

Noooooo

[subtle tundra]

my god im poopin' meself

[bleak sky]

I mean I did ask the guy if he was running keys where this convo matters

[stiff garden]

My entertainment

[zinc frost]

What on earth is going on lmao

[spice spire]

You good chief?

[bleak sky]

he's in sub prison quake

he's not good

[spice spire]

Aren’t you as well mister Minalba?

[bleak sky]

I'm FREE

[zinc frost]

Literally shitting himself playing sub

[low girder]

wow prison is a bad place to be

[marble hemlock]

I mean he's probably forced to play sub, smelling and feeling shit seems like a natural response

[hollow escarp]

it's not that bad

[bleak sky]

I started a mage because my characters didn't feel fun anymore Quake

[rotund oak]

what kind of a madman are u

[spice spire]

Man I hate to hear that

[marble hemlock]

I hate to say it, but rogue just isnt fun anymore, unless your name is brian

[alpine latch]

This sounds familiar.. I've been considering dusting off my warrior again 😦

[subtle tundra]

i just think of how i can ever take the big dps loss and then not even be able to do all the stops/funneling etc that my team expects me to do as sub

[nova flax]

Everyone below 3400 io should UNINSTALL THE GAME

[spice spire]

AMEN

[bleak sky]

ok what's next

next step

[marble hemlock]

I had 6.9k rio when you were still in your diapers kid

[vestal wren]

seli is in the chat and the chat is all about sub hate, coincidence

[spice spire]

I’m enjoying it

[rotund oak]

[marble hemlock]

People hated on sub before I got here tho

😦

[stiff garden]

Im uninstalling now sorry for being bad

[nova flax]

BFA post season

[gusty mirage]

Thank God, I’m finally free

[low girder]

#freeoxi

[nova flax]

TRUUUUE

[marble hemlock]

#deleteoxi

[subtle tundra]

like i cant imagine playing gambit as assa
i do all stops as sub even in double white guy as sub, literally barely can do 1 as assa and requires me to hold gcds, which it doesnt on sub

[gusty mirage]

#deleteoxi

[bleak sky]

this man was running a sanguine depths at demon hours, he doesn't want to quit the game

[hollow escarp]

just kill the stick

[viscid spear]

[subtle tundra]

yea imma funnel on it when it spawns

oh wait

[spice spire]

Oxi is always on the grustle

[gusty mirage]

But 30% more fok damage

[hollow escarp]

on the double stick pack you can't stop both as rogue anyway

[viscid spear]

You're allowed to have fun now?

[subtle tundra]

you can

[gusty mirage]

Think of that fat 1% inc in aoe

[subtle tundra]

i can do that easily

(im that good)