assassination

[subtle tundra]

if we get them on 26 we have route to time them

[scarlet warren]

my grp attempted a 24 sd yesterday and between lantern and boomy ramp boss died in under a min (tarvold)

yeah sd is really hard with raging but doable

same with top too

[subtle tundra]

we had 11 deaths in 25 top, misplayed boomy cds and still timed it

[scarlet warren]

yeah top is sometimes forgiving like that

[subtle tundra]

we did 25 top earlier and had 0 mistakes and didnt time

0 visible mistakes, but after talking about it we had way more time

[strange python]

well-put

[nimble narwhal]

After breaking my hands playing combat and sub since switching to rogue, muti is so chill and comfy
Also with no time to raid, should I just start coughing up for HC sylvanas... EoN seems absolutely massive and I'm hamstringing myself if I want to push 20+ without them

[gusty mirage]

edge of night isn't really that wow for assa

bigger for outlaw and sub though

so if you multi spec it could be worth

[alpine latch]

It's a slight bump over item level, but yeah - it's not that OP

[nimble narwhal]

Cheers all, I'll keep praying to RNGsus

[cerulean nest]

parsing on painsmith. just hella FoK?

[gusty mirage]

only damage to the first ball counts on wcl

but if you use fok to funnel in more envenoms into the boss

yeah it can help you parse better

[cerulean nest]

yeah thats pretty much what ive been doing

[gusty mirage]

your focus should be just survival tbh

[cerulean nest]

sometimes FoK can be ass with buildiing CP on the balls though

yeah im fully raid leading this one, staying alive is easy at this point

[wraith mantle]

finally got enough soul cinders to make my first 262 leggo, what one should i make to make the most use out of it? i play sin and outlaw in m+ and raid was prob thinking either zoldyk,master assassin, or deathspike

[gusty mirage]

so here's the thing if you plan on sticking necro sin

none of those are any good for raid

you'd be better off making a low level doomblade if you plan on sticking necro sin for raid

or a low level dashing

than using any of those 3

[fallen arch]

Zoldyck for m+ first

Then dashing for raid

Or doom

[strange python]

Obedience isn't the play? (well shoot..venth might not be the play for assassin anyway haha)

[sinful cradle]

cant play obedience if he is necrolord

[gusty mirage]

^

otherwise I'd suggest just obedience because it works for all 3 specs relatively well in all content

not the greatest for sin or outlaw but good enough if you don't have another option yet

[spice spire]

Probably doom, dashing covers at high af ilvl, but it takes a bit to get there

[brazen zodiac]

cant u farm soul cinders now

[wraith mantle]

actually cant i just go venthyr for raid then go necro for m+

[fallen arch]

U can

But u still cant use obe in m+ then

[wraith mantle]

already have a 235 obe

then again i might not even have enough gold for the 262 lol

cheapest 262 on my server is still 70k

[drifting cloud]

a cloak?

[gusty mirage]

ye prices sky rocketed

saw a 262 cloak going for like 110k tuesday lmao

[fallen arch]

How

More demand?

[spice spire]

Yes

With infinite cinders then whales are tryna whale

[violet jackal]

With torghast being farmable more people are going to want to make more legendaries plus covenant swaps means make all the legendaries

[fallen arch]

And nobody is farming mats anymore

[devout jasper]

Hey! I have a question My character's fatal flaw gives me versatility but i have more crit than versa. I dont understand it

[balmy condor]

pins

it's bugged

[devout jasper]

oh i see it

its so bad

[versed mica]

Isn't theotar theoretically better dps than nadija anyways?

[balmy condor]

ye

[versed mica]

Assuming no movement

[balmy condor]

assuming anything

[versed mica]

Why do people always play nadija then? Consistency?

[bleak sky]

idk Nadja sims better for me

so I just blind trust raidbots

[balmy condor]

cause it's close to nadjia and theotar is considerably better on sub

so they just have that set up for sub

too lazy to swap around

but nadjia is pretty troll

thrill seeker during intermissions on painsmith and stuff

and thrill seeker is literally all of nadjia's soulbind

that's all there is

so if you get thrill seeker at an ugly time, kinda blows

then fatal flaws is bugged on top of that

idk, there's 0 reason atm to play nadjia

theotar token of appreciation is a huge defensive boost as well

[bleak sky]

alright, gonna give it a shot today

[arctic hare]

Yeah, same here, though, I am switchin back to necro to farm that tasty tasty renown

[hollow river]

Dauntless is pretty poggies

[balmy condor]

yeah and then it doesn't reset on add fights and you're boned

[hollow river]

Watchu talkin bout Willis

You’re gonna make me reroll back to Kyrian outlaw whispyr

[spice spire]

You trolled me in 9.0 on this point

[spice spire]

Demonic

[balmy condor]

9.0 didn't have bosses with 3 minutes of downtime king

[spice spire]

Now you’re hitting me with downtime

When will the trolling end

[balmy condor]

[charred wraith]

council

check mate

[balmy condor]

yeah nadjia was terrible on council

[spice spire]

Shriekwing? Hello? The hardest boss in LFR?!

[balmy condor]

[hollow river]

My life is a lie

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

I should’ve abandoned sin long ago

[kind talon]

should have

gone outlaw

👍

[hollow river]

Or sub

[charred wraith]

you ll see, nf gonna make up for all these disappointments

[spice spire]

But notrickz, we sc*le

[spice spire]

Unsure about that one chief

Don’t even think I’ll meme this one

[charred wraith]

korayn undersims

[kind talon]

[spice spire]

That’s some hard cope king

[kind talon]

out of

[charred wraith]

soulshape gives exsanguinate effect

[kind talon]

all 3

you could have chosen

all 3 soulbinds

u chose korayn

[charred wraith]

korayn is cool

[kind talon]

rlly good in st

YEP cock

[charred wraith]

funnel

first strike

with staggering procs

[balmy condor]

world renowned sin funnel

[spice spire]

Budget sub spec btw

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

Funnel isn’t complete dog water

You just have twenty extra steps

Compared to filler finisher filler finisher

[charred wraith]

fok => get 1 cp => envenom => profit

[spice spire]

That also does more damage

[balmy condor]

sin is downtime spec

[spice spire]

There it is

[hollow river]

The copium

[spice spire]

God please give me more, I need it

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

How much crit should I have?

[hollow river]

73%

[kind talon]

U need at least 2)2%^ crit

[charred wraith]

150 at least

50 can come from ma

[balmy condor]

aoe uncap downtime bleed/poison build infinite target infinite dps no DR dot master poisoner op insane fok seal fate scaling, more crit more cp more damage more poison my brain

[spice spire]

🥜

[kind talon]

Can you have over one hundred percent crit

[balmy condor]

yes

[spice spire]

Yes

[oak sky]

Double crit

Its time

[hollow river]

You need x(7)-9=crit where “x” is equal to the amount of peanuts that make up your brain.

[spice spire]

I do every time the gemstone windows + ma hits

[carmine dawn]

triple pot theotar sims better than tea for all yall?

[balmy condor]

ye

[spice spire]

-9 Crit? Nice

[kind talon]

First strike master assassin legendary master assassin talent full crit gear enchants and gems for all

[spice spire]

Cuz there’s nothing up there chief

[carmine dawn]

premium raid bots is for CEOs only

[balmy condor]

triple potency only way to play theo

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

Wasteland propriety

[charred wraith]

i would play double pre pot duration for 50 seconds encounters

[subtle tundra]

wasteland isnt bad

for m+

[balmy condor]

isn't bad is still worse most of the time

[oak sky]

But you could have wps instead it does so much

[subtle tundra]

no

[balmy condor]

unless you're purposely giga juicing a venth boomkin or some shit

[subtle tundra]

if its a low aoe dungeon

[spice spire]

wps

[subtle tundra]

you play wasteland + lethal

[kind talon]

Joeagony

Joehub

[subtle tundra]

its raging

you dont play wps

ever

[kind talon]

LEGAL KATAR

[balmy condor]

[subtle tundra]

you hold shiv

so much

[kind talon]

That’s true

[charred wraith]

nah, you play wps and you take a druid

[oak sky]

Katar

[subtle tundra]

even with druid

you need shiv

[kind talon]

Or get this

Play a different spec

!!!!!

[subtle tundra]

no

you are in #assassination

[kind talon]

Kekw

[oak sky]

Not a predictable joke

:siren:

[balmy condor]

idk

[oak sky]

Hold shiv for the slow

[balmy condor]

wasteland on sub is pretty good

[kind talon]

Sin is just worse in raging weeks tbh

[balmy condor]

but on sin it's a little harder to justify imo

[subtle tundra]

but i just did?

[oak sky]

L

[subtle tundra]

low aoe dungeon, and raging

[balmy condor]

yeah you did

raging I can sort of get behind

low aoe doesn't make that much sense to me

[subtle tundra]

well, so katar isnt that good

what other potency are you gonna take

[oak sky]

Katar is always copium

[balmy condor]

wps?

lashing wps lethal

[subtle tundra]

we just said raging

[balmy condor]

so it has to be low aoe dungeon AND ragin?

[spice spire]

Main mangle

[oak sky]

Its time quake

[subtle tundra]

yes?

[oak sky]

Your time

Doomblade time

[balmy condor]

like the two of them combined

not "raging" and "low aoe dungeon"

[spice spire]

Even I’ve seen the light that’s obedience

No shot I’m running NL on tyran if I don’t have to

[oak sky]

Lets make maim

[balmy condor]

if it's both at the same time

then yeah

I get that

[carmine dawn]

u think its same for outlaw too

prob right

[balmy condor]

I would assume so, yeah

[hollow river]

MP is only a -12 dps loss for me with dashing+MFD

[oak sky]

[hollow river]

and LP is +150 dps

giga

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

i mean that's a decent gain

BS+DS+LP= +236

next time i'm on guardian, it's goin' down

[spice spire]

Oh

I thought this was some MP nonsense

[hollow river]

nah i had just pointed out that MP was barely a loss for me atm

exsanguinate itself is -480 dps

[drifting cloud]

mp is undersimming spread the news

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

Exsanguinate can be good

[drifting cloud]

damn -480

how much is no talent

[hollow river]

yeah make it 15 second CD

lmfao idk

probably 500

well yeah, it's 10% leech added to your deadly poison

instead of cheat death which gives no relative dps gain in a sim

[echo geyser]

LP = lethal poison or leeching poison

[spice spire]

Get baited team

We’ll get em next time

[echo geyser]

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

it takes your enemy's health

and gives it to you

[warped breach]

guys i have a question..

Is assasination bad in early? or am i bad like i deal almost no dmg in dungs compared to others

[carmine dawn]

Like before level 60?

[kind talon]

LP = Lethal Pkatar

the best conduit

[echo geyser]

[kind talon]

[solemn mason]

i know sim myself but in haste a useless state for m+

?

[kind talon]

🐏

[kind talon]

no

[solemn mason]

just i was looking at the only 2-3 ass rogs doing 21+ keys and they have lowish hates so just wondering

[spice spire]

It’s not useless, but the prio isn’t as high

The prio for m+ is literally crit > a healthy mix of the rest

[bleak sky]

monkaGiga actually huge

[solemn mason]

cool thanks

!

[gusty mirage]

I leave for a few hours and come back to this?

[bleak sky]

don't hit me, hit trickz

[versed mica]

I think ima play sin for M+ just because crimson temp exists

[gusty mirage]

as long as you don't spam it

I support you

[versed mica]

I have almost zero master gear though

[gusty mirage]

doesn't matter

tbh

[versed mica]

Mastery*

[bleak sky]

something something CT spam over 8 targets is good?

[kind talon]

something something its good over 8 targets dingo dongo

[versed mica]

No spam

[gusty mirage]

if we say spam CT three times while looking into a mirror does he appear?

[kind talon]

yes

[bleak sky]

type the words oxi

summon him

[kind talon]

summon me oxi

[subtle tundra]

you do spam in big aoe

[gusty mirage]

My blood pressure is already high I can't handle that

[gusty mirage]

didn't whispyr sim it and it was like a .8% gain to spam it on higher than 8T?

[subtle tundra]

even if it was only .8% its still what you do

cause its better..

[gusty mirage]

[bleak sky]

a gain is a gain

[gusty mirage]

yall chasing the gains

[bleak sky]

if not for the gains, what do we live for

[gusty mirage]

I live to bash mastery enjoyers

[versed mica]

CT is M+ is like salt in food

A little goes a long way 🤌

[subtle tundra]

seeing seli play necro and not do omega overalls reassures me 😔

he does slightly more overalls than me, while playing with monk+war

but he is gonna get more score than me cause he plays with good group :/

omegasad

[kind talon]

lol get rekt

[subtle tundra]

the frost mage i just played with was doing 10k overalls...

[spice spire]

How

You throw orb and blizzard

And veins is back up

[subtle tundra]

Exactly...

[timid cloud]

Did they fix Nadjia yet?

[thorny pond]

No she still has all her parts

[fallen charm]

which anima power is the best on m+?

[spice spire]

Usually we’ll go dagger, brand, and the other two are defensives.
It’s worth noting since this is explosive week that bolstering is pretty good

[kind talon]

It actually depends on conduit level a lot too tho

[fallen charm]

and should we use crimson tempest in ST even with the dashing leggo?

[slow marsh]

no

[hollow river]

we don't really use dashing in m+

zoldyck's or obedience are better for multi target situations, while also still being decent ST

[spice spire]

True I do like propoulsion

[balmy condor]

It’s such a struggle to make it play nice in dslice I’m in pain

[spice spire]

Have you been trying? This whole time?

[balmy condor]

Between log reviews when I get an idea

[spice spire]

Sir

Put raidbots down

[balmy condor]

the condition is starting to get really confusing

I stopped being able to do the math in my head a while ago

[subtle tundra]

can you just try a 10t 1:30-2 min pull?

or 8t its more often the case

[balmy condor]

that's the gain we saw

but it's not doing so hot with obed

I still can't get it up on obed

[spice spire]

Might wanna consult a doctor

[balmy condor]

it's hard to make a rule for it

when it's down -0.4% on obedience

and up 0.9% on necro zold

IN AOE

I CANT EVEN GET IT TO GO POSITIVE IN DSLICE

fucking ct spamming man

anyway log review while I figure out something else

[timid cloud]

Pls have mercy...

It’s still 11 targets, right?

[kind talon]

How does that even make sense bro

Is the initial hit of CT affected by zoldyck

[balmy condor]

yes

[kind talon]

Ok that makes sense now

@balmy condor is it dropping and?

Snd?

[amber fossil]

so what is this BS that if you kill Tarr on M you are tied to that grp till reset

[violet jackal]

pretty sure that how it's been since vanilla

[balmy condor]

what no

[amber fossil]

as someone who chooses not to be in a guiold and enjoy running withg diff folks this is total Nazi BS

[kind talon]

Oh ok hm

[drifting cloud]

gratz you figured out how raiding ids have worked since 2004

[amber fossil]

ok mr cool guy

[drifting cloud]

could be worse, atleast im not the guy calling one of the oldest game systems nazi bs

ill take it

[amber fossil]

right, you choose the passive aggresive path instead

[drifting cloud]

and you can find 20 unsaved people and do next boss yo technically youre not locked

[balmy condor]

to be fair, the nazi reference gets you in more trouble than the passive aggressiveness

[amber fossil]

why is that, I wasant calling anyone herte in this channel a Nazi

[marble hemlock]

Better for overall doesn't automatically mean better for the key

A 0.8% overall dps gain isn't worth losing prio damage, for example.

Assa is one of those specs that has the flexibility to decide each GCD what damage profile you want to use, locking yourself into a "what's the most overall" mindset is not recommended

[hollow river]

^yep isn't it for that reason why we don't run deathspike

only pull i'd even consider CT spam on would be DoS Ardenweald i suppose

[balmy condor]

I mean I'm sure varas knows that

varas is a gamer

but CT spamming in big packs does seem to maybe be a thing now

if you don't have to prio

[spice spire]

Oh no

[subtle tundra]

im just thinking about the ardenweald pull aaaaaaaaaa

and, yea, i know what assa is and assa does dw 🙂

[lean fossil]

so just rupture 3 targets for energy and spam ct is what im getting? lol

[balmy condor]

no

definitely not

at no point should you ever cast 2 ct's in a row back to back

[lean fossil]

we should just play like normal right? lol

maintain and thats it?

[balmy condor]

but you can re-cast it earlier than normal

atm you can recast before pandemic if you have enough bleeds out to keep your energy up, and you got 4+ targets

with "spamming" in this case, I mean that you can recast it even earlier, if you have energy up, and like 8-10+ targets

[lean fossil]

so how big was the aoe buff for sub vs sin?

[balmy condor]

realistically not much

if you're looking at like ToP

then it's 0 dps

[lean fossil]

what about dos

or mists

[balmy condor]

who knows tbh

[lean fossil]

just run it and enjoy the changes? lol

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's really hard to quantify

especially since it's so minor

you'll notice it in ardenweald in dos, or if you do a triple pull at the end of mists

and that's really about it

[lean fossil]

need to tell my tank 20 mobs and no less on pulls lol

[balmy condor]

aoe damage wasn't really a rogue's job to begin with

sub rogues will still get a 30 mob pull and eviscerate :P

[plain onyx]

hey all, is this the way to go for fortified weeks ? or I always should go with Well-Placed Steel over Poisoned Katar ?

[hollow river]

you could sim it with Dungeonslice to be sure, but usually just keep well placed steel

[fallen arch]

Yes especially since your wps is a couple lvls higher than your katar

Wps might be better in this case

[plain onyx]

weird, even though Poisoned Katar is at 226 it simmed 0.1% higher than WPS in Dungeonslice

[balmy condor]

Katar is fine if you’re doing bigger pulls

Tbh all of our conduits are pretty low impact

What you got is fine

[plain onyx]

❤️ thanks a lot

[thin trout]

don't you guys hate it when you are in your garrote refresh window and you are sitting there with ~50% crit and you are sitting at 2 combo points cause neither of your mutilates crit and then you dont wanne garrote beucas u have like 5 seconds anyway then u envenom and use another mutilate and hit 2 combo points again 😢

[balmy condor]

Can’t say I run into that situation

2cp mutilate sounds giga bad

[thin trout]

having one 2cp mutilate isn't bad, having 2 in a row when you are like <7 seconds garrote left is 😢

well not back to back

[balmy condor]

But it’s in pandemic

[thin trout]

i mean fater envenom

[balmy condor]

Just garrote to 3 and mut

Or mut to 4 and garrote after

[thin trout]

yeah i do another mutilate when im pandemic at 2cp but obviosuly then i'm at 5

doesnt happen that often

just sucks

why can't muti just give 4 cp always

[slow marsh]

Git gud nerd

[thin trout]

😢

[slow marsh]

My muts give 5cp every time

[thin trout]

nice, wish I could be the chad like you

[slow marsh]

Me too

[slow marsh]

Hey have you guys heard of that new tech that just came out where you use resounding and hit all 4 charged cp inside shiv ? Pretty huge burst damage

[dense hamlet]

im sure its giga

[glass tulip]

sounds phat

[limber lion]

Big doubt you get 4 finishers inside a Shiv window.

[soft shale]

as assa big doubt so much rng with mut crits

[glass tulip]

I mean you would have to

echo -> shiv -> env(5) -> mut, 2xcrit -> env(4) -> mut, 1xcrit -> env -> (3) -> mut, no crit -> env (2)

or am I missing something

and that seems like a lot of casts to fit into shiv

7 globals in 9 seconds is tight

alongside being lucky with the right amount of crits

[soft shale]

i guess you could use ambush to game the 2 or 3 but still

or get the 4 or 3 with 1 crit and garrote or something

but we always forget that then you're playing kyrian assa

might as well be

[glass tulip]

only place kyrian assa seems good is torghast lol

[fallen arch]

Which is the pinnacle of content ofc

[thorny pond]

Can always save an anima charge CP for next shiv window but that seems omegalul and napkin math at best

[subtle tundra]

uh just garrote at 15 sec for the 1 cp?? ez??

what if whispyr tried kyrian with its leggo and change the apl to garrote as a 1 cp builder 💀

and POISONED KNIFE

giga garrote poisoned knife for 2cp finisher

[bleak sky]

the forbidden poisoned knife tech

[gusty mirage]

[thorny pond]

Been a bit since PK builder

[warped breach]

im coming back with my question

Am i a bad sin rogue

or is he just weaker than other classes early on?

im lv 28

this is the graph from the boss

my aoe is also bad

[subtle tundra]

classes arent balanced around leveling

[warped breach]

i know

[subtle tundra]

then stop worrying

[warped breach]

but some have significant powerspikes

thanks a lot :)

[fallen arch]

Yeah dont worry about it at that level

I even suggest to play one of the other 2 specs until you reach max lvl tbh

Both more powerful

[golden basalt]

Sin is kinda weak levelling but max level it’s pretty pog

[frail niche]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[dusk cave]

if im using master assassin legendary in m+, what is my opener?

[subtle tundra]

you do a fast torghast and build 190 something else

🙏

[hexed frost]

Kekw this was a good one

[sinful cradle]

Assuming you play nightstalker when using the MA lego you do mfd ct out of stealth then fok rupt fok rupt

[lunar elm]

so huh

chara just randomly FoK when sprint in stealth?

is that normal?

[fallen arch]

Is anyone else watching @echo geyser banging out a PF +31?>

[frosty bridge]

EDG vs DK game 5 bro

Ram on the other screen

[limber lion]

#off-topic my guy.

Or #wow-general for the ramfamfans

[fallen arch]

oops sorry

[limber lion]

I agree, would not recommend assassination as your leveling spec.

[hexed frost]

Guys after a good number of runs, I am feeling at home with the spec and comfortably popping 11-12K overall on most 20 keystone dungeons on fort affix. I'm regularly popping top damage on bosses/lieutenants, only getting outshined by shadow priests and boomkins.

But I'm necro, and have no 80 renown in venthyr.

How much dps am I losing not be in a venthyr and running flag leggo?

Outlaw is a strict no no because I can't up with so much APM and I've never seriously tried Sub.

[subtle tundra]

youre not losing dmg, you have a different dmg profile

which can be better or worse, depending on your comp / dungeon

i dont like necro since i lose the 1 min dmg versatility

which is really good

with prio dps

[hexed frost]

Comp is frost mage, me and ele sham. With bear and holy priest heal.

[subtle tundra]

and higher ST overall

ELECTION SHAMAN POGGERS

its your decision to make

[hexed frost]

He does 4K on bosses. I see him spamming lightning bolts waiting for some procs on lava burst or the necro skill

[subtle tundra]

so is it enha or ele

cause i dont know

[hexed frost]

Ele

Sorry for the typo

[subtle tundra]

i'd go venthyr obe since your comp has shit st and omega overall classes

but if necro is working out, its your decision

[hexed frost]

I just "feel" Necro syncs good with zyldock leggo because of the bleed and I always have some on demand CP generator in shiv windows

[subtle tundra]

i mean, yea

how are bosses going, how much are the tormentors

[hexed frost]

If I switch now, I will have to quit M+ and raiding for a week till I get up the renowns

[subtle tundra]

you dont

60 renown is enough

[hexed frost]

Oh okay.. Atleast got the conduit part sorted out. Was clever enough to get most of the conduits to 252 for all specs.

[frosty bridge]

Huh, Lethal simming higher than WPS for Necro

[hexed frost]

One more thing, for the multi speccs, how far is a venthyr sub rogue ahead of sin rogue?

I guess because they can funnel shuriken storms into eviscerates in AoE? Or is it because their AoE is just popping shuriken->black powder?

[subtle tundra]

for pushing world first keys, with perfect comp, way better

[frosty bridge]

I mean for optimal play it's a bit ahead

[subtle tundra]

with perfect play

[frosty bridge]

but with optimal plays and pulls

[hexed frost]

I mean, sin can also funnel fok into ruptures/mutilates, with multi-garottes energy retention is also good

[subtle tundra]

if youre not doing that, they are closeish

[subtle tundra]

yea you can call that funnel i guess

but in reality its way lower

and the funnel is only important in those keys

cause they have windwalker destroying packs

frost mage helping with aoe + funnel

so it all balances out

[hexed frost]

I just plan to time 22-24s and get 2.6-2.7K rating. My rogue is my alt and I'm preparing it for 9.2 as a main.

[hexed frost]

Oh so it's comp specific

[subtle tundra]

no

its more that its group specific, if you play around it

and it makes packs way harder

cause everything else dies slower

[frosty bridge]

Sub is better objectively, but if you prefer playing Sin it's what you should go for because it absolutely can pump

[hexed frost]

Thanks @subtle tundra @frosty bridge

How is the learning curve for sub compares to sin?

I mean, if I can keep up with multi-garottes and multi-ruptures each pack, sub should be easier right?

[thorny pond]

Sub is more wave motion rotation with peaks of APM and priority lists

Sin is more fluid and consistent even with multi target it’s relatively same APM throughout

[gusty mirage]

New Patrick pfp? @thorny pond

Reformed?

[thorny pond]

More zen since you guys gave me shit

[gusty mirage]

I would never give you shit

[thorny pond]

You guys is an over arching theme
Just like I pretend to still play sin

[gusty mirage]

Maximizing damage on sub is learning optimal CD usage. The learning curve for the rotation is super minimal tbh. Vendetta being a 2m CD and the rule of using it on prio damage targets makes assassination a bit more forgiving when it comes to CD usage. But I’d suggest playing both and seeing what you enjoy more

They’re both very satisfying in different ways

[gusty mirage]

You abandoned us too

[vestal wren]

assassination is more chill to play

[thorny pond]

My guild needed more dps so I went sub

[gusty mirage]

[drifting cloud]

[late birch]

anyone here know if the profile ceverion kept linking was his plater or ELvui?

[fallen arch]

Plater

[late birch]

sick, can anyone link it to me please if you got it

[spice spire]

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[late birch]

ty

[spice spire]

Np

[late birch]

Not sure how to check in settings but do you know if I can soothe a target with shiv whether it glows or not?

to indicate its soothable

[spice spire]

Doesn’t glow

But you’ll see the enrage buff on the bar

Shiv and it drops

[fallen arch]

Yeah the animations of enrages are also hard to miss usually

[late birch]

but it will always only show debuffs I can soothe

?

[fallen arch]

Shit grows by at least 40% in size

[late birch]

true

[fallen arch]

No

It also shows things like bolstering stacks

[spice spire]

Correct

You just gotta know the icon and it’s pretty easy to spot

[late birch]

I see

ty

Well this plater seems pretty sick, ty ❤️

[nimble thicket]

Can you shadowstep Painsmith balls?

[upbeat needle]

you can

but you will die

lmao

can door of shadows thru though

or shadowstep someone else on other side

[nimble thicket]

Thank you, always run Outlaw on it / Heroic Sin they fall over never had to think about it

[slow marsh]

[fallen arch]

It doesn’t?

[limber lion]

Yes, by default you only see debuffs that you can dispell/soothe. They have different color borders, so they're pretty easy to spot.

But that's all configurable of course!

[hexed frost]

Use shiv at 31% HP because fat fingers and need the juicy execute burst with zyldock
Tank fucking gets one shot

Hardest choices indeed require the strongest will

[balmy condor]

there's like 5 things wrong with that statement

and I'm still debating with myself whether to unpack it

[hexed frost]

What all

I wanted to save it till 30% but idk I pressed it at 31% instead

[balmy condor]

I mean the first thing that stands out to me is juicy execute burst, that kinda makes my skin crawl

[hollow river]

I hope you’re not holding shiv for execute

Always better to slam that shit on CD

[hexed frost]

No no it was on CD

[balmy condor]

he was trying to hold for ragin

[hexed frost]

I am not cringe enough to hold it

[hexed frost]

No it was on CD. It came off at 33%

So I thought I will hold for 3%

But pepega

[hollow river]

Ahh

[late birch]

@limber lion Ive been looking me sick and cant seem to find where to deactive the combopoints on plater for my monk

[nimble thicket]

Unsure to run Theotar or Nadjia for Painsmith if Venth. People are running a mix of things and can't unpack it properly. What notes you got for me, please and thank

[subtle tundra]

rn theotar 100%

cause nadja's bugged

[gusty mirage]

theo was winning before

and now that we always get vers from fatal

not worth

[nimble thicket]

Thank you

[limber lion]

It's in general. It's something like "show personal resources" or something

[nimble thicket]

Also new to Venth, been playing Necro

[limber lion]

You can search for resources and you should find it

[gusty mirage]

pretty sure its that one

I think

[limber lion]

That one yep

[late birch]

that was has been unticked

it looks like custom CP bars

I see there are custom ones for rogue and druid unticked in modded or scripted

but nothing for monk

[limber lion]

take a screeny

[late birch]

one sec

[limber lion]

ah fair enough maybe there's a mod/script for it

[gusty mirage]

also possible it could be a weakaura

[gusty mirage]

oh that's a weakaura

[limber lion]

yeh

[gusty mirage]

almost positive

[late birch]

wtf

never had a wa do this before O>o

[gusty mirage]

you could also check under "Modding" in Plater

possible its a plater mod

or script

[late birch]

welp

deactivated everything in mod and script

and didnt work

[hollow river]

nadjia actually still sims better for me

[limber lion]

So it's a weak aura

ripperino pepperino

[hollow river]

but the stupid bug

[late birch]

I go cri :\

[gusty mirage]

I love getting fatal flaw during intermission

fat damage increase while I afk

[hollow river]

oxibully

[spice spire]

true

oxi is a bully

all my homies hate bullies

[nimble thicket]

how many line up in intermission, that is a roll of the dice right? As well, does sim proc crit? if it does even once it is a sim trap outside of intermission with bug

right?

[hollow river]

it sims as crit, depending on your stat weights

but it also procs during painsmith and sylvanas downtimes

i believe it procs on a timer

i'm just gonna switch to necro

[nimble thicket]

From logs it does from what I have seen unless you speed it up from add killing blows which .... no don't count that

[hollow river]

don't wanna play sin theo

[balmy condor]

seems a little extreme

to just up and swap covenants because the worse soulbind is worse

[subtle tundra]

whats wrong with sin theo 😦

[balmy condor]

theo good

[nimble thicket]

I'm finishing lvling Venth to play Dashing-Theo

[river crater]

so reading the opener guides, why do we rupture before vendetta? is rupture not affected by it

[limber lion]

It is pretty much a dead gcd

Rupture does not have an initial damage component

[late birch]

IT WAS ELVUI NAMEPLATES ENABLED !!!!

[limber lion]

So it does not matter when you use either

[late birch]

was losing my damn mind

[limber lion]

lol.

Elvui even warns you when you log in

[river crater]

ah i see

thanks

[limber lion]

that you need to disable either

[limber lion]

[late birch]

never had issue on main or other alts, so didnt thinkto look :\

[river crater]

appreciate the kon 🙂

[steel shadow]

is it better to have a 246 iqd or the 239 salv fusion?

[gusty mirage]

so you admit that you hate me

[balmy condor]

sim it, usually fusion

[spice spire]

@gusty mirage hate that you bully

hate the grustle not the gamer

[gusty mirage]

I bully no one*

I'm reformed

*Disclaimer: except for DHs in my guild

[thorny pond]

I grant you permission to use my line

We can go to therapy together

[compact stirrup]

why im always getting versa after 20% hast

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/835953211465531403/906659724093685790/unknown.png?width=1091&height=676

new bug? xD

[gusty mirage]

yes

check pins

[arctic hare]

Well

just tried SbS as assassination, its way more fun than I had originally thought playing with it

[deep solstice]

To the memes, and beyond!

[full tendon]

Necro is supes fun

[hollow river]

play this and Leeching poison for rank 1 healing parses

[subtle tundra]

I actually hoped that leggo would be good but its mega sad

[lethal saffron]

lads my theotar rolled crit wish me luck for sylv prog tonight

[deep solstice]

I just wanted some extra self heal for comp stomp

but its proc rate is soooo low lol

literally less damage than my phial

tbh you prob get more hps out of dashing since it actually does damage

how bad is judgement of the arbiter? Is it at least fun if someone else runs it?

pretty trash without a second one. Someone make one and come suffer comp stomps with me xD

[alpine latch]

I've been considering it for keys... I can never be in the damn umbrella anyway

[hollow river]

i just don't want to go back to the sanctum whenever i wanna play sub

might not have a choice tho

[clever kindle]

is kyrian the secret ultra-utility juice

Kleia sims seem really good

[subtle tundra]

finally gained a fat 12 score today with my team ^^

the mage is still dog though

a bit better but still lower overall than me :/

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

mage lower than rogue

[indigo ginkgo]

so with this bug on nadgia, do we swap to other soulbind in venthir ?

[gusty mirage]

yes

you go theo

[thorny pond]

NF fantasy time

My sin sims are trash anyways

[timid cloud]

[hollow river]

yeah i've been stuck at 10.7k for weeks waiting to kill sylvanas

but i've got my sub n outlaw to 11k

[gusty mirage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/31AdEwRrYhZoi2TwrDHG4p just loot the item dude

[hollow river]

??????????????????????????

[gusty mirage]

idk man

I'm simming 11k w/o wft

[hollow river]

u have more 252s than me

but nice shoulders

u finally got heroic

[gusty mirage]

finally shed the 239 tarra shoulders of shame

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

252 grue shoulders of shame

BASED

[arctic walrus]

so low

[gusty mirage]

guy gets a new coat and forgets how to act

[arctic walrus]

if you think i haven't acted this way always then u dont know me

[gusty mirage]

tru

[spice spire]

Vel don’t make oxi call out his jet’s pizza friends again

[shy dust]

Still in 9.0

[soft shale]

i can call el piernas and roberto alberto if you want

[hollow river]

i wish i could replace my 259 shoulders

they're so shit

[timid cloud]

[arctic walrus]

You fool. I simply poisoned myself to build immunity for when all my haters come out to play

[spice spire]

order it again

no balls

[gusty mirage]

too late

[gusty mirage]

I never left it

[hollow river]

no wonder you wanna quit after CE

[slow marsh]

I'm glad you've come to terms

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

calm down there toxic onslaught wombo combo nonsense master iceblades

[slow marsh]

I never once vouched for toxic onslaught

But I'll take it

[stoic bobcat]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[oak sky]

Aoe cap changes dont have a massive impact, our damage has been pretty good the whole time, sub just generally has a better damage profile and stuff for dungeons

And dont get me wrong, sub still does more damage, assa damage is just also good

[strange python]

Assa has been lovely all the time. Just less aoe and more reliant in stealth. Sub can just do its thing with shadow dance will assa rogues have to get out of combat.

[jaunty hill]

Exactly, If you cannot apply tab garrotes you are basically standing there watching all by yourself

[hollow river]

it's not as big of a deal to not get your x3 empowered garrotes out in the opener as you might think, when chain pulling packs

still might not be 100% optimal but it has a smaller impact on dps than it would seem at first glance.

[jaunty hill]

You miss out on a lot of energy regeneration, which leads to a lot less abilities to spam. So I think it has a significant Inpact, or am I wrong?

[oak sky]

They did a sim, over the entire dungeon it ends up being a smaller loss than you would think, i think it was only 100 or a few hundred dps

[hollow river]

Iirc no restealth/vanishing for garrotes was a few hundred

Since vanish can be used as a defensive utility or silence utility

And just no restealths was much less major

Basically if you’re chain pulling, you shouldn’t be energy starved anyway

[timid cloud]

You also do the classic, pool before leaving the pack & also bank some CP into the next one because we don’t get 3 from Garroting anymore.

🙃

I hate it....

[jaunty hill]

I miss Legion/Bfa Poison bombs

[timid cloud]

Hot take. Nice to look at, horrible in practice.

[hollow river]

Was it like getting a chi-ji proc?

[timid cloud]

I wish.

[jaunty hill]

It was very random but it hit like a truck

[timid cloud]

Then we would’ve dumpstered Warlocks every tier at that rate.

Just by sheer proc rate.

[static moth]

question, why does [Fatal Flaw]'' only proc versa? But i'm full crit build. Crit 1190, versa 362

[upbeat needle]

bug

[static moth]

a new one ore a old one?

[timid cloud]

New.

[strange python]

Ever seen garrote dmg? Its a huge deal lol.

[jaunty hill]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/t7PmwD3XHL2cKGCh#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=2 Garrote is in almost any log quite high in damage

[placid pagoda]

new as of 9.1.5

[static moth]

ty guys 🙂

[limber lion]

@strange python @jaunty hill NoTrickz is correct. It might seem significant at quick glance, but it's not as massive as you might think. We've done multiple sims where we completely remove the stealth and vanish lines, and it always ends up being less than 100 dps loss over the course of an entire dungeon.

The big benefit from getting multiple garrotes off is opening faster on new packs than you would by applying 1-2 garrotes and building for ruptures for energy.

Sure it's still damage that you're missing out on, but it is not as significant as you might think. Of course it's much more beneficial if you can get stealth between every single pack and the full value out of the garrotes than chainpulling.

If the packs are 3-4 targets and they all last for around 18-20 seconds, of course you'll see much more value from Subterfuge garrotes than on larger packs that last for longer or boss fights.

Even without those initial garrotes you'll still be looking at high garrote damage as you want to be using it on cooldown and always maintaining 3 garrotes whenever you can.

[thorny pond]

Cev, I haven’t played sin in m+ for a bit but doesn’t get the initial garrotes up help energy regen significantly or is that dated?

[drifting cosmos]

gotta miss that bfa garrote comb

huge initial dmg

[gusty mirage]

It does but the energy regen aspect is moot if your tank chains and you have CPs to play with

[thorny pond]

♥️

[fallen arch]

And you know, just be a night elf and meld every 2 min

[thorny pond]

Void elf gets my sub paid for tho so

[ashen urchin]

Is the fatal flaw bug in simc atm? I've been doing various sims and surprisingly can't get venthyr dashing to beat necro doomblade. though it's all pretty close honestly

[thorny pond]

Check the pins for more details

I don’t think so tho

[small basin]

? xD

[gusty mirage]

Try simming venthyr with marked for death

Instead of vigor

[balmy condor]

Seems crazy that it’s not winning

Even with vigor

[cloud nacelle]

We go theotar now with fatal flaw being bugged or nadia still worth?

[balmy condor]

Theotar was better before the bug too

But he’s especially better now

[cloud nacelle]

Ty

[echo geyser]

shard of tel fix waiting room

[valid spoke]

Do people tend to not use MFD because it's harder to use than vigor or is it actually worse with very high gear levels?

[dark glen]

How’s that? Lol

[strange python]

Personally found vigor smoother to play around and outperforming in reality

[gusty mirage]

Keep waiting brother

[gusty mirage]

Vigor does not outperform mfd in reality unless you’re wasting mfd for snd on the opener

[strange python]

Guild wants me to play sub now :(

[strange python]

Idk, did for me and plenty of top logs still use vigor

[gusty mirage]

Plenty of logs use vigor out still because people are slow to transition

Plenty of logs still use nadjia even though Theo’s been better for months now

[strange python]

Idk, I'm not sure I buy that all the top players are playing suboptimally with the optimal build available "because lazy"

Or you'd see the players who do go mfd outperforming

[gusty mirage]

That’s fine and your prerogative whether or not you want to buy it or not

But mfd is more damage for venthyr and it’s not debatable lol

If you want to play vigor because you hate mfd, fine

But it doesn’t outperform mfd

[limber lion]

Well I can tell you that there's a lot of top dogs that don't have public logs.

I swapped to MfD and did more dps on most of the bosses just after a single run.

[golden basalt]

Just playing around on dummy I do quite a lot more with MFD during flag + opener, barely notice not having vigor after the opener once everything’s rolling

[spice spire]

If played optimally* 6th button hard for some people mentioned in this post

[golden basalt]

Sin rogue too complicated all ready

Now I have to use another button?!?!

[spice spire]

[solemn mason]

[clever kindle]

kyrian kinda slaps

[gusty mirage]

For who

[balmy condor]

Wrong channel

[clever kindle]

No, sims are showing it just under venthyr but above necro now in single target and aoe, but it feels nice

Still not better then venthyr but definitely viable now

(for sin)

[dense hamlet]

or is it

[gusty mirage]

[thorny pond]

Simps

[winter vapor]

are there any sanctum fights that favour necro over venthyr? Or is it all venthyr when MFD is taken into account

[craggy ruin]

why theothar simms more then nadja ?

[golden basalt]

theo bae

[gusty mirage]

because it does more damage

[golden basalt]

Umbrella > sword

[cold dove]

if im too lazy to get the tea will nadja be better

[gusty mirage]

no

[dense hamlet]

bruh just get the tea

[spice spire]

It’s five steps from your soulbinds

[limber lion]

Eye of the Jailer, The Nine probably, Soulrender, Fatescribe, KT

[craggy ruin]

u think i should use theo on sylv prog?

[gusty mirage]

yeah its more damage

[limber lion]

no way :O

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

you're five steps from my butt

[cold dove]

no i am oxi

[marble hemlock]

not worth for the nine, considering the easiest part is the only one with cleave, and the "harder" portion of the fight is pure ST

[limber lion]

Sure, but I don't think the question was which is the better choice for progression and more about which one is better for getting a better parse.

[marble hemlock]

oh

yeah i suppose

[limber lion]

I wouldn't pick Necro on Fatescribe either personally

But it's definitely more deeps

[marble hemlock]

yeah, the adds just die pretty quickly these days

and venthyr is probably better with the burn strat in p3

[limber lion]

Yep

[paper bridge]

Hi ! Why is Theo better than Nadjia ? (Sorry if i've missed the explanation). Is it because of some missing euphoria "proc" ?
My sims give me +90 with Nadjia (i'm siming with vigor)

[thin trout]

holy shit kindred spirits is awesome

8% crit

[gusty mirage]

16% when they empower it

[gusty mirage]

triple potency theo has been simming higher (or just about even with) than nadjia for a while now

for higher ilvl profiles

now with the bug its a no brainer

theo w/ crit tea has been higher than nadjia for a while as well

[thin trout]

yeah the crit is so nice

woop woop

[gusty mirage]

ye I was helping my buddy get KSM last night and he had the leggo

apparently kyrian feral is stonks according to foresight

[thorny pond]

I am curious now, we have two. Where did you see this?

[gusty mirage]

I'll dm you the sim

[bitter apex]

Frostrime hasn't been fixed yet has it?

[balmy condor]

Has not

[bitter apex]

-_-

Also Whispyr in the guide you say that using mark would be increase if Venthyr can you explain why? 😄

[marble hemlock]

extra CP during flag = good

[bitter apex]

I kinda made that connection

but thanks

I was more thinking why it shows as a dps drop if I switch

[marble hemlock]

you mean switching off of mfd drops your dps?

[bitter apex]

no

picking it

drops my dps

[marble hemlock]

well, thats technically the same thing

no nvm, me stupid

[limber lion]

As in

Your sim shows a lower number with mfd?

[bitter apex]

yeah

[limber lion]

What rank is your frost shards?

[bitter apex]

5

[limber lion]

Are you Venth?

[bitter apex]

yes

[limber lion]

What is your ilvl?

[bitter apex]

250

[marble hemlock]

[limber lion]

Idk man

MfD is king

Link the sim

[marble hemlock]

maybe still using an old cached profile or smth?

but yeah, linking the sim would be easiest way for us to take a look at it

[bitter apex]

nah

straight from Simc addon

oh wait nvm I never bothered to look correct at it but it's still a 7 dps loss

[limber lion]

link the sim

[bitter apex]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/26drrMYY4tx2sf6mQ5YsGd

[gusty mirage]

I mean they're within margin

[bitter apex]

yeah

thats what I realized after

[gusty mirage]

weird

[bitter apex]

like it doesn't look like it'd be a buff for me

[winter vapor]

thanks for the feedback @limber lion

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4ExWmu2Y4ZhartEdzuR3e2

Switching trinkets

108 dps increase.

90 more dps compared to Vigor

[bitter apex]

but running gland on a prog fight seems uhm silly

[limber lion]

Why

[bitter apex]

also I'm only simming about 80% uptime on it

we're on guardian

[limber lion]

It's literally like 90%

[bitter apex]

and I'm dropping below 50% hp alot

[limber lion]

Guardian

Seems pretty fine to me

You heavily underestimate how good the trinket is

And heavily overestimate how much time you spend under 50% hp

[strange python]

Did new sims drop or what

[limber lion]

No

You rarely spend a lot of time below 50%

You might dip for like a second or two

[bitter apex]

mate

[limber lion]

But you get insta-healed

[gusty mirage]

yeah if you're below 50% for more than a few seconds your healers kinda sus

[bitter apex]

I've been looking at my hp alot this fight

and ain't nobody fucking healing me

my healers are sus

[gusty mirage]

my HP on our first guardian kill

[hollow escarp]

well, you swapping from gland won't help you there

[bitter apex]

also ur simming with windfury

[limber lion]

This is your HP

On your best pull

You got chunked bad at the 04-04:30 mark

But that's about it

[bitter apex]

hmm might have to switch back then

I only switched due to painsmith being a bitch

[limber lion]

I mean

It won't make much of a difference honestly

You probably will never even feel the difference

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v9FM13rBdYM4d6L4m2kUBH

Without the evil windfury

results still stand the same.

[stark anchor]

sims accounting for the nadja bug mentioned in pins rn?

[gusty mirage]

afaik no

[kind talon]

[hollow escarp]

theotar 33 dps better for me

[gusty mirage]

theo's been simming about 20-30 dps higher for me even before the bug

I've just been incredibly lazy

[hollow escarp]

I never cared to check

[gusty mirage]

ye I checked a few weeks ago for shiggles

[hollow escarp]

I was hoping I get to swap off venthyr for sylv prog

[limber lion]

There's some fights where it's better and some where it's not.

[clear shadow]

since nadjia is bugged we go theo till its fixed?

[limber lion]

Yes sir

[clear shadow]

ok ty

[limber lion]

Just use theo and never change, you'll be fine

[charred wraith]

nadjia still gets benefits from dying adds

[limber lion]

It also gets entirely cucked by intermissions and whatnot.

So +-0

[hollow escarp]

the vers buff is not that bad

[charred wraith]

well i mean, fully depends on the encounter