assassination

[hollow river]

I like to optimize a set for every spec

[gusty mirage]

Haven’t been apping for houkon lately

[hollow river]

Lmk Monday

[spice spire]

I gotta fix this fatescribe parse so I can do a lil boosting

[gusty mirage]

Cuz I cba to farm embers anymore

[hollow river]

Oo nvm I’m locked this week

[spice spire]

Also Monday is raid time for me

[arctic hare]

Yeah, gotta fix that problem

[hollow river]

But after

[gusty mirage]

I’ll get r5 blood when I get it

[grim hornet]

this....

is so annoying

[gusty mirage]

Plus I’m already behind

And there’s no catch up

So zzzzz

[grim hornet]

i would like to try sub on sylv but just thinking on clearing hc again pushes me back

[gusty mirage]

Plus I can’t abandon my sin boys

[errant swallow]

Sin 4 life

[opal berry]

New to sin, was curious from aoe and mplus would it be beneficial is your pulling like 6-8 mobs to get out your 3 subterfuge garrote then vanish and do it again or is there ni benefit to that? Just trying to figure out good times to use vanish

[normal mist]

I believe that's a good scenario, but don't overcap CP, so maybe CT before vanishing

[soft shale]

that is what you do yes but still use finishers and keep envenoming for snd

[opal berry]

Ok.

[normal mist]

Or get 5cp b4 vanishing and CT

[opal berry]

I tried it once or twice but i think i did 4 garrotes instead of three so when i vanished it was on cd but at least i know my heads in the right spot lol thanks for the advice.

[normal mist]

I mean you can 4th garrote, just use those 6 sécs( 6 of garrote CD right?) To CT, FoK, apply some ruptures and then Vanish

[opal berry]

Ok, i get ya

[soft shale]

usually you do the 4 garrotes then 1 fok

[normal mist]

Aka 5 CPS + Mobs get deadly poison (most likely) right?

[soft shale]

yea you can pray for more than 1 cp on fok

[normal mist]

I mean if he 4garr + 1 FoK that's 5cp

At that point CT is recommended b4 rupturing right?

[kind talon]

Always ct before rupture in aoe sir

[normal mist]

Exactly

CT does hit hard (the dot)

Imagine if it also gave us venomous passive

The dream

[kind talon]

Lmaoo

No way

Would be dumb

[normal mist]

WW aoe dumb or just dumb? :p

[kind talon]

Just dumb

[normal mist]

So not reaaaaally dumb.

[gusty mirage]

why would it be dumb

[normal mist]

It would result in higher aoe dmg for sure

[kind talon]

Would be a significant buff to CT in ST as well

[gusty mirage]

would be a simple fix

make poison bomb not garbage

[kind talon]

Yeah true

[gusty mirage]

idk why IB works but CT doesn't

I think IB triggering venomous is dumb

if CT doesn't

[kind talon]

IB?

[normal mist]

Then do it like this: if CT hits 3+ targets, it guarantees venomous wounds passive!

[kind talon]

What’s ib

[gusty mirage]

internal bleeding

the kidney shot stun bleed

[kind talon]

Omegalol

That’s actually stupid as fuck

[normal mist]

Bis in pvp

[gusty mirage]

yeah lol

not sure why that's whitelisted for venomous and CT isn't

just weird inconsistencies from blizzard tbh

[normal mist]

Assa would fucking pump if CT got the passive...

[gusty mirage]

CT being whitelisted for venomous would change the way sin plays in m+

it'd be interesting

[hardy wind]

do we hold mfd for shiv only or just full send it on CD unless flag is coming up? feels weird in single target

[gusty mirage]

send on CD unless flag is about to be up

[hardy wind]

cool ty

[limber lion]

Because it would be busted as fuck

Garrote/Rupture/IB are all single target abilities

[gusty mirage]

it'd be cool though

[limber lion]

They by nature are gated behind cooldown and time

[gusty mirage]

more envenoms in aoe :p

[limber lion]

CT would be just dumb

[thick sail]

Sure, but it needs to be noted in the tooltip. It's awful that something would say "bleed ticks give energy" and then have bleed ticks not give energy

[limber lion]

You press it once in a big pack and you've got infinite energy

Without applying a single rupture/garr

[limber lion]

But

It is stated in the tooltip

Literally

It says "Garrote and Rupture"

It does not say "bleeds"

[thick sail]

Right. So

[limber lion]

When speccing into Internal Bleeding, it will dynamically update the tooltip to include IB as well

[thick sail]

Explain why IB works, without saying that in the IB talent tooltip?

[gusty mirage]

I just think IB shouldn't be part of venomous either tbh

[limber lion]

Just did.

I don't see why not. It's very very minor

[thick sail]

You didn't. It doesn't say it in the IB talent tooltip. It updates VW.

[limber lion]

It's a single target ability gated behind combo points and time

[thick sail]

Who would know to look in their spellbook at VW

To check that

[limber lion]

Exactly

But you don't look at garrote

or rupture either

to know that they give you energy

That's not how the tooltips work

[thick sail]

Right, I read VW when I learn it.

[limber lion]

The energy gain from Gar/Rupture are only mentioned in the VW tooltip

Not Rup/Gar tooltips

[thick sail]

Logically

It should say in IB, the talent

That it works with VW

And then VW should update

Anything else is just insane and totally non intuitive

[limber lion]

Sure, but why does it matter?

[gusty mirage]

this is just arguing semantics at this point tbh

[limber lion]

IB is still trash and you should never play it

[thick sail]

Because the game tooltips suck and I'm advocating for better ones

[limber lion]

Yeh exactly

[thick sail]

For clarity

[limber lion]

Well tough luck

The tooltips have been shit for 10 years now

[gusty mirage]

probably longer we just haven't been smart enough to notice them prior to 10 years ago

[limber lion]

True

Also, are you aware that haste increases our bleeds tick rate?

Because that is not included in the haste tooltip either

It says "energy regen and attack speed"

[thick sail]

Yes, which is also shit.

[limber lion]

It was updated 3 years ago

[gusty mirage]

blizzard and garbage tooltips, name a more iconic duo

[limber lion]

And still to this day it doesn't say that it increases bleed tick rate.

[thick sail]

If we started putting in tickets though, they could change things. I personally put in a ticket complaining that Theotar's soulbind, the one that shields friends when they buff you, kept breaking my stealth in arena. After two tickets, they ACTUALLY fixed it

But if the answer is just "too bad" then ofc they're not gonna fix it

[gusty mirage]

that bug was reported for ages before it got fixed

[limber lion]

That's not true whatsoever LMAO

It was reported by thousands of people

[thick sail]

I googled it and saw only one person complaining about it

[limber lion]

You alone did not change anything

That's not true whatsoever

It was a very, very common bug

Among m+ players

[gusty mirage]

once flag stopped being trash, and people switch venthyr

[limber lion]

Everytime you used shroud or stealth and got shielded, it took you out of stealth

[thick sail]

I'm not saying I specifically got it fixed, I'm just saying that I personally put in a ticket

[gusty mirage]

it was asked in here like 30 times a day

[limber lion]

Not a pvp only thing

Yeh like these spec channels

and #wow-general

were literally getting spammed

daily

with "why does my stealth break in m+???????"

[gusty mirage]

a bunch of people reported it for what seemed like legit months

[limber lion]

Even if you submitted hundreds of tickets, they will never change tooltips

I don't think you understand how big of a thing it would be

To update existing tooltips

Sure, they can make better tooltips in the future

[thick sail]

I think there are a few common misconceptions in this Discord.

1. that even 10% of rogues who play wow know and use this discord.

2. that Blizzard devs read this discord

[limber lion]

But there's tens of thousands of tooltips

[clever kindle]

3. Find me a game with actually accurate tooltips

[limber lion]

1. True
2. They don't

And no one has ever said that they do

But you saying "I submitted 2 tickets and it got fixed"

is far from the truth

Us saying that there were hundreds of people here complaining about it

[clever kindle]

Non priority shit just gets logged and taken care of in one go

[thick sail]

I didn't say that

[limber lion]

Just proves how commonly known of a bug it was

[thick sail]

I said

[limber lion]

And how often it was reported

[thick sail]

I personally put in a ticket

[subtle tundra]

tickets arent the place to report bugs, right?

[thick sail]

But clearly if thousands put in tickets, and finally it was fixed, that certainly suggests that if we put in enough tickets, things MIGHT get fixed. Versus

"too bad"

[subtle tundra]

but stuff gets reported

[thick sail]

I've never put in any tickets about tooltips, have you? Maybe we can start a revolution

[gusty mirage]

envenom tooltip got reported probably tens of thousands of times in bfa

[clever kindle]

No because nobody wants to read a bug report about a tooltip

[subtle tundra]

im 99% sure they know about stuff like deathspike bugs

[gusty mirage]

didn't change once the entire expac

[clever kindle]

Knowing about a bug and being able to fix it are two separate things

[thick sail]

Tooltips are crazy easy to fix, they're just strings of characters

[golden basalt]

just change the words bruv

easy

[clever kindle]

and they're also superfluous and dont affect the actual game so are negative on priority list

[thick sail]

The words and the variable containing the value, yes

[earnest remnant]

why would they use the man power for it tho compared to other things, that are more urgent for them to fix

[thick sail]

I mean

If we're gonna argue in that direction

[limber lion]

And just like you said previously

[thick sail]

There's the fruit painting

[limber lion]

There's barely 10%

kap

that's probably less than 1% of the playerbase in this discord

And less than 0.01% actually active

[golden basalt]

imagine reading tooltips

[clever kindle]

imagine trusting tooltips in any game whether its league, dota, final fantasy, or wow

[golden basalt]

just do what wowhead tells you

[clever kindle]

theyre all fucking wrong

[thick sail]

I 100% agree, but if like 100 of us, all on the same day, all report the same thing, there's a reasonable chance they'd fix it

[golden basalt]

like a good lil sheep

[limber lion]

1. Changing tooltips is a massive job, not a single bug like Theotar's was
2. You doing a "revolution" with the people in #assassination won't get you far.

No, there is not

You severely underestimate how big of a thing fixing tooltips is

It's not just "change one number here" and "add one line of text here"

[thick sail]

By no means am I suggesting we ticket them and say "please fix all tooltips kek"

[limber lion]

What's the point then?

[thick sail]

But if we all report the same issue with IB for example

[limber lion]

But

Why does that matter?

Whatsoever?

Like really

What do you gain from it whatsoever

[thick sail]

For new people?

I don't gain anything

But people who might want to play this game

[limber lion]

Feel free to submit as many tickets as you want

Maybe you'll make a change in the world

[thick sail]

Wouldn't think it's horseshit to have to join a Discord and read hundreds of pages of information to understand how the game works when it should be really simple

[limber lion]

That's not how World of Warcraft works though

There's hundreds of layers on top of layers

It's not fucking Angry Birds

There's more than 15 years of content in the game

They've done more than enough to help new players start the game and get used to it

And they keep adding new beginner friendly stuff every expansion

But WoW simply is not a beginner friendly game

And it will never be

[thick sail]

Here's how easy it'd be to clarify what I'm saying about IB.

Add to tooltip: "Internal Bleeding ticks count toward Venomous Wounds."

There's not even a value or a variable there. It's just a line of clarifying text that would completely solve the problem. Layers are irrelevant in this case.

[limber lion]

That's true

But that's one of THOUSANDS of tooltips

that needs fixing

Why would you only fix IB

And target IB

It's one of the most unnecessary tooltip fixes there is

Not only is IB completely useless and you never use it

It procing VW is such a useless addition

[spice spire]

There are deadass so many tool tips that need fixing that blizzard would have to hire an entire force to fix it.

[limber lion]

You get like 4 energy from it

[thick sail]

IB is solid in PvP though

[limber lion]

You will never ever even feel it

[ember mural]

[vital tapir]

kek, pvp

[thick sail]

Idk, I just would like them fixed

[halcyon zealot]

they already hired a force to change wall paintings

[thick sail]

It would be nice

[halcyon zealot]

mt mt

[limber lion]

Good for you

Maybe you should get hired by Blizzard

I'd much rather have them spend development time on something actually useful

Instead of changing a dead talents tooltip

[vital tapir]

also I'm p sure you either use iron wire or prey on the weak in pvp

[spice spire]

In pvp, you’re not min-maxing that second tick of energy during PvP. Or at least not as hard - it’s more of an “is it worth it” at this point because as Cev said

[vital tapir]

no ib

[limber lion]

To include an effect which is equally useless

[spice spire]

There’s much more use they could get

It’s a strange fixation for sure

[thick sail]

I assume you agree the paintings and old quest texts nobody sees anymore was a waste of dev time then right? Because if so I'm on board with you there

[limber lion]

Nobody?

But you were just talking about beginners a while ago

[vital tapir]

[limber lion]

But yes, they were changed for other reasons

[halcyon zealot]

yeah they already said those changes weren’t for players

[limber lion]

Not because some random bongo in a discord requested them to be changed

[thick sail]

Nobody sees Argus quests going 1-60 starting in SL

[halcyon zealot]

it was for the devs

[thick sail]

I'm sorry they just don't

You're pretty insulting toward me considering all I'm suggesting is that it'd be nice if the tooltips were better

It's weird man

[limber lion]

They changing "blacklist" to "blocklist" in their code is not for the players either

[limber lion]

That's not what you're suggesting though

I mean yeah

I agree

It would be pretty nice if tooltips were better

But there's thousands of tooltips that are funky

And thousands of reports of people complaining about poor tooltips

[vital tapir]

I mean, there's the option for it
the fact that majority doesn't go there to level doesn't mean that nobody goes there
also some people might go back there later on so why is that useless?

[limber lion]

And instead of changing those thousands of tooltips, they spend time developing something else

Like the new expansion, new features, class balance etc.

You have to realize that you're not alone in this world and there's millions of players in the game. I'm sure there's plenty of people reporting faulty tooltips every single day. Getting IB's tooltip changed is not exactly on top of the priority list.

[spice spire]

I’d prefer IB be changed in general

[vital tapir]

IB kinda dog anyway

could just scrap it

and make smth useful

[shy dust]

IB is nuts for PvP tho

And better than envenom

[spice spire]

Oh Rae

[shy dust]

Hello

[spice spire]

I’m glad you’re here

[limber lion]

assassination is my favorite spec

uwu

[gusty mirage]

IB can also be used for a little extra prio dam in m+

[spice spire]

Yes man

Don’t worry boys, I got the stormer

[gusty mirage]

You good bro?

[spice spire]

Always am

[shy dust]

[gusty mirage]

Send me some of those happy pills you’re on @spice spire

[spice spire]

I’ve had 5 hours of sleep this week

That’s what we’re working with king

[limber lion]

this week?

[spice spire]

Yes

[bleak sun]

114 io for title as one trick sin

[spice spire]

YO LETS FUCKING GET IT

One trick your way to victory papi

[limber lion]

love to see it

[bleak sun]

GURN is better

[golden basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-orc-angry-gif-12083808

real king shit, respect

[limber lion]

Anyways, I'm off to rehersals.

Stay civil, assassins.

[spice spire]

Have a good one Cev

[hardy wind]

does anyone actually use any @mouseover or @focus macros for garrote/rupture or do you just tab target to reapply dots? talking about raid mostly

[bleak sun]

Not raiding but im tab targetin' in m+

[gusty mirage]

I tab target raid

mouseovers work on nameplates and character models

so

its kinda janky sometimes

[bleak sun]

Its more wheel up next target wheel down previous target

Than tab

[gusty mirage]

I used a mouseover for SBS and I use a mouseover for mfd

because if you end up hitting the wrong target its whatever

[spice spire]

Weakling

I’ve deadass ACTUALLY thrown a top by hitting a pack we were pulling

[hoary remnant]

Wanna try assa for the first time since legion and I am looking at logs and talents and I am very confused which one is the "best combo" https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n1eYcf5ixtGmjA14uUxL93

[spice spire]

It’s the one showing

[gusty mirage]

I've thrown a 21 halls last season doing that

[spice spire]

Mfd good

[gusty mirage]

SBS another pack

[spice spire]

Yeah 20 top down the shitter

[gusty mirage]

pull's going fine

"oh fuck"

"what happened?"

"nothing..."

[spice spire]

Still won’t mouseover

[gusty mirage]

"WHO PULLED THAT?"

[spice spire]

“Hunter”

[kind talon]

Sheeeeeeeesh

[gusty mirage]

what can I say I'm good with my wrists

flicking skills too strong

[kind talon]

Holy cow

[spice spire]

Oxi ur gonna make poi act up

[hollow river]

I see you flicking them Quick Decision procs

Kinda hot ngl

[gusty mirage]

[kind talon]

Quick Draw procs

[gusty mirage]

zoomer channel is that way sir -->

[hollow river]

WSTED

[gusty mirage]

nah poyboi and I used to be homies

we used to message each other on bnet

now he's too good for me

[golden basalt]

[spice spire]

9.1 is the patch of dekainchinpo

Butchered name

From memory kill me now

[gusty mirage]

[strange python]

obidience lego head or back

[gusty mirage]

back

[spice spire]

Back

[kind talon]

[kind talon]

Check your bnet

Wait I was the last one to message u

U ghosted me

[gusty mirage]

was it late at night

I'm old bro

anything after 10:30pm est I'm done

the alzheimers kicks in

and I don't remember where I am

[kind talon]

Fair enough

[halcyon zealot]

that’s when my raid starts man u are a boomer

[kind talon]

[spice spire]

Yeah he is

[kind talon]

10:30 raid starting is unreal

[halcyon zealot]

yeah it’s late, i’m east coast playing with a bunch of west coasters

[kind talon]

Oof

[hollow river]

Raiding with west coasters

[halcyon zealot]

lmfao

[pure moth]

Used to start raid 1230est, end at 330 and wake up 730 for work. Fun times

[halcyon zealot]

that’s just demonic

[kind talon]

Agreon is west coast

[gusty mirage]

you're insane if you think I can raid until 1:30am when I got work at 7

[hollow river]

Oof. You are too aren’t you?

[kind talon]

Yeah

[hollow river]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Time difference is just huge lol

[spice spire]

Absolutely demonic, even by my standards

[spice spire]

Get good king?

[pure moth]

Lol

[gusty mirage]

season 1 sin io check?

mythic prog check?

[halcyon zealot]

lol i had to pick up morning shift on thursday so i been doing that for last month or so, raid til 130 wake up 7am. slowly deteriorating me

[gusty mirage]

yeah I did that shit in bfa

and I was dead every morning lmao

I'd come home from work and just sleep for like 6 hours

[cerulean nest]

on painsmith during balls, are you Fan of Knivesing while theyre up or just 100% tunneling

[spice spire]

Didn’t run keys + L + ratio + not even white lmao

[cerulean nest]

or I guess, is it more valuable to use fans to build CP during balls or mutilates on boss?

[gusty mirage]

Wow dude

Kinda sus bit at the end

[gusty mirage]

FoK if balls are in range

[spice spire]

Sink lore can be leaked on bit sus

[vital tapir]

what's wrong with white?!

[cerulean nest]

and also i've griped about this a few times with no real solution (not sure if there is one), very very often when I hit Vanish my target switches. when adds come up during painsmith phases etc. and I use all CDs on boss, when i hit vanish I have to retarget painsmith and it wastes a global. any idea why the hell that happens?

[kind talon]

no clue bro

[north basin]

is it account flagged or bugged. but how come 15 resets with no dager from loot or from 2-3 vault choices. i saw everyloot ingame 2-3 times already xDD

[wary ice]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

[north basin]

rng believers in blizz game detected -_-

[oak sky]

West coast

[hollow river]

Your next ability should automatically target him and cast if you just keep pressing buttons

Do you click vanish? Or do you have it bound to keyboard

Because unless you’re accidentally clicking onto another players character or something else and targeting it you shouldn’t ever untarget the boss

[kind talon]

idk u might have some weird bind or macro

[hollow river]

Possibly

[kind talon]

its never happened to e

me

[hollow river]

Me either unless I clicked another player on accident when im moving around

And even then I just keep pressing my buttons and it automatically casts them on the boss

[wary ice]

you can also be doing camera shit w/ mouse

if you left click before right click when u move kinda thing

🤷‍♂️

you can nuclear option and just /cast vanish /target Painsmith dorkadude

[fervent rune]

I doubt it’s from clicking something else if it happens all the time

[cerulean nest]

i dont click any abilities, and theres no weird macro

but yeah I mean I might just set up a macro to target painsmith to make sure it doesnt happen. its extremely weird. only thing I can think of is fat fingering tab right after vanish but like, im 99.8% sure thats not what im doing lol

[south hollow]

On sylvanas, is it a loss if we dps the arrows?

[kind talon]

Not really

Just don’t vendetta or flag them :)

[south hollow]

ah, i was keeping my cds for them mb

[hollow river]

Just depends how fast they’re dying and how long it takes you to get to chains and how long it takes to get back to boss

Mythic correct?

[south hollow]

yus

[oak sky]

Its probably loss but if your raid needs it and ur in prog you should hit them

[kind talon]

I mean

What else are you gonna do

Walk into veil and hit boss?

[strange python]

They brought a new store mount! Quality content

[kind talon]

Or are you talking about the first set of arrows

[oak sky]

Thats only set 2

[kind talon]

Well after that you have to hold boss dps anyways

So there’s nothing else to hit

[oak sky]

Rush strat

[hollow river]

Yeah I’d only dps arrows if your raid needs it. P1 is about optimizing CD usage for arrows. Theoretically you shouldn’t ever NEED to dps them with a proper comp

[kind talon]

Rush strat is for chads but my guild’s full of Travis’

L

[hollow river]

Sin is basically boss damage turret

Dps chains if they’re close or downtime like veil #2

[south hollow]

first mostly

I haven't seen much of the fight

it's first night of progress

ppl can't distinguish left and right :^)

[oak sky]

First you probably wont need to put much damage into as the boss goes on

[south hollow]

all of our hunters quit the game

[kind talon]

First set of arrows is just useless

[oak sky]

Its really hard without hunter/moonkin

[kind talon]

Don’t run to it

[south hollow]

we have 2 boomies tho

[oak sky]

Yeah ur probably find

Fine

[kind talon]

Sin is legit

Useless

At hitting arrows

No cap

[split cipher]

Your raid might get to a comfort level where you're holding dps in p1. If you get there, start playing with where you can pull off the boss to help with other things. Until then I'd just stay on her when you can

[inland heath]

its normal to dont be able to reach 30 stacks of flagellation? on ST ? U need vendeta and lust or i just suck

[kind talon]

its normal

especially if you arent using marked for death

[hollow river]

Even with vendetta+lust+mfd I only ever get 28-29 stacks reliably depending on crits

Idk if I’m just doing it wrong or what

[golden basalt]

sounds like pretty standard amount of flag stacks

[oak sky]

its 28-30 depennding on crit

for me at least

[subtle gyro]

when running dbl sin, does the effect stack or do u just get more uptime? Maybe a stupid question.

[hexed frost]

Is Sin really good in M+ or am I just a decent player idk, but I've been competing with mages and boomies around my ilvl at 18-19 keys. Mostly 0.5K-1K difference at most. And I don't even have fusion or 246 edge.

Like I start with 7K on first pull and overall dps goes to 8-9K by end.

Multi-dotting garrote with subterfuge, crimson tempest combined with phial, necro bone spikes and zyldock leggo are pulling really good numbers for me

I'm surprised why people don't play sin more, and I think necro spikes syncs well with zyldock leggo.

[oak sky]

nobody pulls big in those keys

so you can compete with anyone

[golden basalt]

sin is by no means sleeper op in m+

sub is just flat out better by the way their dmg profile is

but sin is not dead and completely viable if thats what you prefer

[hexed frost]

We had a 4 pack Halls and TNW. But yeah I agree on the pull part. My main is a 2.6K MM and I went rogue recently.

Was struggling to cross 6K on outlaw because pepega APM and brain

[oak sky]

what does dbl sin mean sorry?

[subtle tundra]

sorry to dissapoint but 8-9k isnt a big overall

[oak sky]

^

[subtle gyro]

sinful, wep enchant

[oak sky]

oh

[hexed frost]

240 ilvl and 235 leggo

[oak sky]

dont know tbh

i think most people just go sinful/celestial

probably is a more uptime thing

[subtle tundra]

also youre comparing to random pugs

like..

[subtle gyro]

im simming high running 2 over the standard, so i was just curious

[subtle tundra]

thats just troll

[golden basalt]

you´re simming higher using double sinful rather than sin/cele?

[oak sky]

it can happen @golden basalt

[subtle tundra]

boomy in low keys pugs are just extremely dogshit and so are frost mages since they cant reset icy veins properly most of the time esp in tyra

[hexed frost]

Maybe you're right. Once I get more gear I'll run with main group in some 20s to see how well I do.

I don't expect to hold out against boomies or mages or MMs tbh

[subtle tundra]

with good gear you can expect 11-13k

depending on dungeon

and played well

[subtle gyro]

Yes

[subtle tundra]

(thats still low compared to the actual good classes)

[hexed frost]

Yes on my MM I do 10-11K on fort DoS, mists or sanguine. Wonder how well sin would do

[golden basalt]

I guess yeah, from what I know the procs just refresh it but by that logic you could potentially double its uptime. Just curious cause cele is legit so nice due to its agility stats

[oak sky]

sim just says what should do more damage so idk

[subtle tundra]

i do ~13k on those, im very well geared though

[oak sky]

i would think that celestial is better with more targets

since it gives stat

[golden basalt]

yea, but sinful also procs on spells, FoK sinful chinese hack?!?1?

[hexed frost]

That's nice. Will pray for 246 dagger soon

[subtle tundra]

its ok but then you see ele, ww, frost, boomy etc do 15k or whatever

[oak sky]

yeah those classes do ridiculous damage when you pull around them

[subtle tundra]

you only need to pull around boomy

[oak sky]

i was about to say especially boomie

[hexed frost]

I'm surprised how much dmg trinks and edge adds. Like on a 19 this week SD, I had 700K dmg from phial alone.

I wonder how much of a jump will it be if I get a heroic fusion and edge

[golden basalt]

doubt either of them would add too much to your overall dungeon damage

[hexed frost]

But isn't shaman pepega for Tyrnicals?

[strange python]

700k dmg over a dungeon isnt really that much tho

[inland hull]

So is whoever you sold your soul to still buying? I'm willing to settle for 9k overall in keys

[golden basalt]

on singletarget sure

[strange python]

its like 1 mob

[oak sky]

hes a beast and does higher keys than you

[hexed frost]

I had a mistcaller before

[subtle tundra]

i mean... im doing 25s

[strange python]

okay well mistcaller is very troll

[subtle tundra]

if i did 9k i'd be like 2k above tank

[strange python]

prot pally op

[oak sky]

9k is pretty solid for lower keys though

[strange python]

what other tank is doing 7k overall

[oak sky]

tbh

[fallen arch]

Brew?

[hexed frost]

I have a 252 anima battery and 246 phial now

[fallen arch]

I’ve seen Brews close to that

[charred wraith]

feral?

[oak sky]

anima battery isnt insanely good for sin you want raid trinkets or shadowgrasp

[fallen arch]

Feral is not a tank

[charred wraith]

the feral tank

[fallen arch]

And it’s not close to that kind of dps

They’re tanky, not great for damage

[oak sky]

bear does decent mass aoe in cds

lot of caveats there tho

[strange python]

bear doesnt really end with great overalls

[oak sky]

they just like incarn go brrrrrr

[hexed frost]

We just progged mythic Guardian so maybe a few more kills for the trink or vault.

[oak sky]

eye trinket is good too

and like i said shadowgrasp from dos

[hexed frost]

What about phial? Is it only for outlaws?

[oak sky]

phial is great yeah

i meant instead of anima battery

[strange python]

phial is bis for every rogue spec

[inland hull]

So anybody stream high keys on sin?

[hollow river]

But all the other ones are diff for each spec it would seem

[strange python]

mostly

[hollow river]

Like M ocular gland/phial out sims 246 totem and 239 fusion amp for my sin profile

[strange python]

varas streams I think

[hollow river]

239 fusion amp wins heavily for outlaw over ocular gland

[oak sky]

double on use is cringe

[subtle tundra]

i streamed twice pog

[oak sky]

oh

[strange python]

[oak sky]

you meant

[strange python]

keep streaming

[oak sky]

nevermind

[hollow river]

And shadowgrasp totem out sims fusion amp and ocular gland for sub

[strange python]

varas famous streamer pls

[hollow river]

Pretty nifty tbh

[strange python]

need more assa representation even tho this is the spec I play least

[hollow river]

Bro

We’re all becoming multi spec chad’s this tier

[oak sky]

who?

[hollow river]

Join the club

[hexed frost]

Talking of M+, I'm having a bit of confusion regarding vendetta usage.

In AoE, I'll usually be spreading garrote and rupture across multiple targets, along with maintaining CT, so that simgle target debuff from vendetta doesn't seem useful as I don't stay on a target for too long.

[hollow river]

Just use it on whatever has the most health

Or prio target

Better to use it rather than not use it at all

[hexed frost]

I don't want to go venth for sub and my potato brain goes afk for outlaw. Sin is where I belong.

[golden basalt]

I ignored my shadowgrasp 252 trinket for a 246 edge in vault hehehe, i have shit trinkets but I know that at this pace id just replace that DoS trinket regardless

[hollow river]

Venthyr sub is pretty poggers

[inland hull]

@subtle tundra I'd love to see some higher sin keys. I've got so many questions. Such as "how do you do that"?

[hollow river]

Raiding as all 3 specs if u want is pretty poggers

[limber lion]

It's completely fine to hold Vendetta for prio targets/bosses, but there's really no point holding it for 5 minutes.

It's better to slam Vend on cooldown on whatever you can instead of pressing it 4 times in a dungeon.

[limber lion]

garret 1

garret 2

garret 3

garret 4

ez

[inland hull]

Hold up

[oak sky]

rupture 4 vendetta

exsanguinate

[inland hull]

Slow down

[hollow river]

Sin is the hardest m+ spec imo

[golden basalt]

just play it as budget sub, FoK -> CT. repeat

[inland hull]

That's what I keep telling my tank

[limber lion]

The hardest m+ spec out of all 3 rogue specs

[hexed frost]

Isn't that talent only ever used in BfA?

[limber lion]

But not generally too too hard

[oak sky]

[limber lion]

Yes, he's just meming

Never ever take Exsanguinate

[golden basalt]

venom rush is the play

[subtle tundra]

🧢 exsang gamer

[golden basalt]

exsanguinate is for memes

[echo geyser]

I will do AoE in the future, ur laughing now

[hollow river]

Unless it’s good again one day

[steel ridge]

Make exsang great again

[limber lion]

We can pray

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

[golden basalt]

make exsang baseline alongside alacrity and poison bomb

[timid cloud]

No pls.

To the making Exang great again.

I hated having to use an AOE spender in my ST rotation for pure ST fights....

[steel ridge]

You didn’t like 90% haste?

[echo geyser]

CT was used in ST fights because of exsang

or because of haste corruption

[timid cloud]

It just wasn’t the move. Just feels weirdo mode to me.

[strange python]

idk about assa in m+ being hard

it's a lot more work than outlaw and sub

[steel ridge]

It fucking chonked tho

[timid cloud]

Yeah I remember.

[hollow river]

Just do whatever does the most damage should feel good

[strange python]

just depends if you'd call that hard or not

[timid cloud]

Just because I played it, doesn’t mean I liked it.

[small basin]

can someone explain like I'm stupid when i should pool energy as assa in pve

[hollow river]

Yeah I mean it’s just my opinion.

[golden basalt]

maximum posion applications during envenom window

[inland hull]

Real question: is it worth it in pulls of with 8 mobs to put put up the 4 garrotes, then snd, then vanish into 4 more garrotes? Just to get more empowered garrotes up?

[hollow river]

Outlaw can be hard to min max but it’s just smash everything on CD basically

[limber lion]

That's not Exsang's fault

That's CT by design

It's completely possible that CT will pull ahead of PB in 9.2

[small basin]

so i just pool before envenoms

[golden basalt]

yuh

[strange python]

I don't envy assa m+ players tho, that level of micromanagement is not for me

[golden basalt]

but slam it during shiv

[limber lion]

No

[timid cloud]

I really hope it doesn’t.

[golden basalt]

wanna get those juicy envenom hits during shiv

[echo geyser]

is it due to haste or what

[small basin]

during shiv get as many envenoms as i can

otherwise pool

[limber lion]

You should use Vanish defensively and for utility.

[small basin]

ok

[inland hull]

Cool

[hollow river]

O.o

[hexed frost]

For me outlaw was pure cancer and had me almost delete my rogue.

Was missing too much BF uptime because it was resetting instantly due to restless blades. Was refreshing 25 seconds Broadside like a n00b.

[limber lion]

Yeah haste and a bunch of other stuff. PB doesn't really do much, CT scales to the moon

[golden basalt]

tbf i suck at pooling, my monkey brain reverts to outlaw and just slams every key as soon as i got 30+ energy

[limber lion]

That's completely fine

Pooling is very minor

Like, don't even bother with it honestly

It's like 30 dps

[hollow river]

But 8 empowered garrotes with prot war ww monk FEELS like the most damage

[small basin]

wait to use shiv before you have decent energy?

or just press on cd

[golden basalt]

wait

[limber lion]

No

Always press Shiv on cooldown

You never wait for energy or anything

Shiv is off cooldown?

[small basin]

ok

[golden basalt]

shii

[limber lion]

Slam

[golden basalt]

i like that

we´re lucky to have cev

[limber lion]

Not worth. We already have infinite energy from 4 garrotes and a rupture, no reason to spread out more garrotes just to pad slightly more on the meters.

[hexed frost]

Sin is just multi-garroting, multi-rupture and maintaining CT right?

[timid cloud]

Now that I think about it. I don’t really like either end choices for ST. Whether it be CT / PB. Because PB being 40% of your damage was so miserable.

Yes.

[limber lion]

The silence portion of Iron Wire is much more important

[golden basalt]

legion PB was disgusting

[limber lion]

You might run out of interrupts, so you can Vanish + gar instead

[timid cloud]

Sometimes the right move is to Vanish for silences.

[oak sky]

sometimes vanishing for damage is cool its just situational

[limber lion]

And maintaining SnD, yes.

[hollow river]

I was joking, but we continue to spread ruptures and regular garrotes until everything is fully dotted

[subtle tundra]

+1 holding vanish for when mobs start casting in sanguine is really helpful

[hollow river]

I like to pad sometimes

[limber lion]

Eh, using Envenom and CT instead of 4 garrotes is cooler.

[timid cloud]

If you really gotta stop, like Wicked Bolts for example in a massive pull, some say, you can only take so many of those before someone flops.

[limber lion]

and probs more damage overall

but who knows

[oak sky]

oh not necessarily at the start

sometimes ill use it to refresh on a prio mob or something

[limber lion]

Fair enough, you got me

[echo geyser]

yeah the garrote silence is the one thing i rly think sin has advantage over sub/outlaw

[oak sky]

or like in vendetta on a boss or lieutenant

[limber lion]

but why

[oak sky]

when i dont need it for anything else

[echo geyser]

but i still believe that sin is an alliance spec

[hollow river]

There’s just not always enough utility needed from vanish every 2 minutes

[oak sky]

[echo geyser]

for shadowmeld

[timid cloud]

Gotta Envenom for that quickie SnD refresh.

[limber lion]

Like if you vanish for damage

[hollow river]

So sometimes using it offensive is ok I feel like

[limber lion]

You need to get all 3 garrotes off at least

[hollow river]

For sure

[limber lion]

But even then it's kinda meh

But I get it

Just don't vanish on single target or you're trolling

[timid cloud]

Yeah, it’s entirely situational I guess.

[oak sky]

tbh i always view it as multipurpose

[echo geyser]

give back shrouded suffocation

[limber lion]

It's okay to vanish on bosses on tyrannical as you'll have it back when the boss is dead

[oak sky]

yeah i mean times like that

[hollow river]

Can also get the silences too

[oak sky]

and a lot of bosses have adds and stuff

[hollow river]

I tend to forget

[limber lion]

Subterfuge garrotes are just not too great

[oak sky]

then it comes up like 2 packs after

[limber lion]

We've simmed a full DSlice without a single stealth opener

[timid cloud]

I thought it was okay in ST, you just don’t do Gar-Rup-Gar anymore?

[limber lion]

And it was like 100 dps less overall

[echo geyser]

[limber lion]

Like never using vanish or stealth

[timid cloud]

Or whatever our extension was just like it was in BFA.

[limber lion]

4 garrotes as the opener is great because it gets your energy rolling quicker

[strange python]

is assa really a rogue spec if it barely benefits from stealth

[hollow river]

Then why not play MA and get more value

[limber lion]

But they don't really do too much damage

[oak sky]

utility

triple gar silence

[limber lion]

not worth

[hollow river]

True

[oak sky]

just play MA CT MFD NS

[timid cloud]

Jesus.

[limber lion]

MA as in MA legendary

[oak sky]

yes

[echo geyser]

for my weekly 15s

[spice spire]

The Ceverion 9.0 wombo combo hopium

[limber lion]

It's pretty dank on bosses ngl

[golden basalt]

just FoK -> CT -if youre not top dps then youre not pressing hard enough

[spice spire]

CT/MFD/NS with MA

[limber lion]

I always get people going nuts after my opener

[timid cloud]

I remember when it was kinda relevant for a month at the start for Sin. (Complete exaggeration)

[limber lion]

But outside of that it just sucks to play

[spice spire]

Yeah you had some thicc burst

But yeah

[limber lion]

Having to wait for mobs to be grouped up

And everything

ugh

Not patient enough for that

[timid cloud]

Might as well play HIDDEN BLADES.

[limber lion]

Get hit out of stealth, unlucky, entire burst is gone

[timid cloud]

You know what, life isn’t so bad right now. So long as we never have to PK or FOK in single target ever again.

[oak sky]

i tried MA nightstalker in torghast

pretty decent with the shadowstep damage amp power

[golden basalt]

MA feels a lot nicer in torghast than subterfuge imo

[oak sky]

its really bursty

[limber lion]

I use NS in Torghast

[hollow river]

Sub is insane for ghast

[limber lion]

Oh ya, just like Agreon said

MA legendary and NS

As Necro you can oneshot bosses with a single bonespike

[hollow river]

Wtf

[limber lion]

Venth is pretty in Torgh

[hollow river]

I never did that

[golden basalt]

the anima power of increased bonespike dmg is so stupid

[inland hull]

I've still been playing vigor in keys. Is mfd preferred now? (also using obedience lego if that makes a difference)

[golden basalt]

its both hilarious and awful to use

[limber lion]

Just run Vigor

MfD is a bit of a pain in the ass

Vigor just makes everything much smoother

[timid cloud]

MFD in keys is just too extra for the little it gives.

[limber lion]

You get your 4 garrotes off in the beginning to get your energy rolling

[inland hull]

OK good. I honestly just didn't wanna

[echo geyser]

@drifting cloud

GL on sylv

[honest heath]

question: should I put haste/crit or vers/crit on dashing legendary?

[balmy condor]

probably haste

but vers on one item

really doesn't matter

[small basin]

i have haste vers on my doomblade for pvp zz

loses 37 dps lol

[honest heath]

yeah my doomblade is also haste/vers for pvp

[oak sky]

haste crit if its for pve only

[honest heath]

but i don't think I would use dashing for pvp

[timid cloud]

I think that’s a doom blade / obedience maneuver in PvP, ain’t it?

[inland hull]

Is mfd the play for sylv even with dashing or just with obedience? Surely add resets make it worth it, right?

[small basin]

doomblade duskwalkers

for pvp

[oak sky]

it would be worth even without resets

if it sims higher

[golden basalt]

doomblade is just too good in pvp, not really sure if anything else is worth using

maybe memeing with MA

[subtle tundra]

anyone know what the cd of vendetta is with duskwalker in aoe?

[balmy condor]

if you're venth, you never play vigor

[subtle tundra]

curious

[balmy condor]

in raids

[honest heath]

oh I just saw the pins...if we're venthyr with obedience then we want to run mfd now?

[oak sky]

just venthyr in general

[echo geyser]

[subtle tundra]

quite curious

[echo geyser]

@subtle tundra when strum?

[subtle tundra]

i strimmed twice

[oak sky]

[subtle tundra]

[oak sky]

i need to catch your stream sometime

[timid cloud]

Varas is a comfy curious badger.

[subtle tundra]

i just stream when guildies wanna play

[timid cloud]

I still dunno if I’m doing the obedience leggo proper in raid still on Sin. Do I just send out that second Flag or hold it for like 40s until my next vendetta?

[oak sky]

hold bad

[golden basalt]

SLAM

[timid cloud]

It just feels weird if I have to hold vendetta if I don’t get enough CD on it after that.

[golden basalt]

should sync nicely every 2nd flag

can hold last flag cast of the fight for vendetta if you know that you will only have 1 more

[timid cloud]

Hmmmm, might be messing up then by hesitating.

[golden basalt]

slam it works for me most of the time

[drifting cloud]

kill me

[echo geyser]

im watching hunter PoV

[honest heath]

i wonder if i should craft dashing then

i have 262 obedience and would only have a 235 dashing

since MFD with venythyr is better

[golden basalt]

sim it brotha, hard to say whats best for you as dashing is just crazy good with crit% for winds. Obedience is 100% viable and competetive

[honest heath]

yeah i just ran it in sims and my 262 obedience sims better

but like only by 30 dps over the 235 dashing...so I'm guessing with 262 dashing it might be =

[golden basalt]

next week soul ash/cinders drop is increased by quite a massive margin so you can prob get both by then

[honest heath]

true true

[golden basalt]

obe is also better on multitarget than dashing

[subtle tundra]

you can also infinetly farm

[golden basalt]

Trueee

[honest heath]

that just sounds like a bad time though haha

[golden basalt]

also true

[honest heath]

granted if I'm not going for flawless...can prob just skip through a lot

[golden basalt]

think you get around 1100 cinders from full clearing whatever corridors are available, at most you need to do 4x runs for a new 262 legendary

[honest heath]

is that the new reward value?

[subtle tundra]

noooo guardian trinket dropped and he needs it:((

[honest heath]

that's a big increase from the 360 for both wings

[golden basalt]

yea theres an updated page for it on wowhead

[honest heath]

i wonder if sin will represented as much as sub in keys now with the aoe soft cap changes

[balmy condor]

probably not

[subtle tundra]

nah

[balmy condor]

target cap changes don't really do anything balance wise

[golden basalt]

it makes 2-3 pulls more managable throughout all dungeons i think?

one on mists and one on DoS at least

[hollow river]

We can also spam Torghast to socket our gear ((((:

[golden basalt]

yea fuck no

[hollow river]

Can’t wait

Full sockets is a decent dps upgrade

[balmy condor]

korthia tho

[hollow river]

Fuck korthia

[balmy condor]

need it for conduits anyway

[golden basalt]

grinding codex is less mentally draining

[hollow river]

Lmao

Flawless for 1 conduit a week

[golden basalt]

technically you can farm conduits in torghast as well 😄

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

@echo geyser nice name

[echo geyser]

why u ping me? im busy raidlogging

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

70 weeks later

[hollow river]

Cba with korthia man

[gusty mirage]

damn

y'all slackin

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

imagine not having all 252 conduits already

peasants

[hollow river]

Toxic

[oak sky]

Imagine doing more korthia after t6

[timid cloud]

Hey, remember that meme I said I’d find for everyone here like a week ago?

[gusty mirage]

imagine wanting the paragon box mounts

[timid cloud]

I found it.

[oak sky]

Yeah i do too

Oxi

[gusty mirage]

I got them

then only went back for the weekly

[oak sky]

I dont have the t6 one

[gusty mirage]

🙂

[oak sky]

Or the desths advance shardhide

[gusty mirage]

I just got that ugly ass thing

[oak sky]

I have all the other ones though i think

I like shardhides

Crimson is poggq

[gusty mirage]

you want to hear a secret?

they called me and they told me they like you too

don't tell anyone

[oak sky]

😊

[timid cloud]

What’s not to like?

[gusty mirage]

idk man sometimes people hate just to hate

like I hate myself

[oak sky]

Literally i got crimson shardhide at the start of the patch and im still running it when i dont need to fly

[timid cloud]

I gotta buy the new kitty.

[oak sky]

🐱

[timid cloud]

It’s a DPS increase.

[oak sky]

And everyone else loves you

[placid pagoda]

can you evasion the smash from Guardian?

[hollow river]

the brown swirlie? i don't think so

[placid pagoda]

nah the obliterate

[hollow river]

you cloak the yellow circles

oh the frontal?

you can cloak it

pretty sure it's arcane damage

[placid pagoda]

Yeah just wondering if evasion also immunes it

yeah it does

[hollow river]

idk if it negates the CC

[placid pagoda]

so im cucked

[hollow river]

how?

[limber lion]

It does not work.

Evasion makes you dodge things, not immune them.

[balmy condor]

why would you need to evasion the smash

[limber lion]

Doesn't work on magical effects, only direct physical stuff

[balmy condor]

just cloak the soak

and tell your tanks to stop being bad

[hollow river]

I’m wondering the same thing

[limber lion]

9.1.5 coming in a few days, November 2nd.

Glad to see some more content for you boys

[hollow river]

But how does the smash have anything to do with bad tanks?

[hollow river]

It’s more content for you too Cev

[balmy condor]

it's the tank mechanic?

[limber lion]

Either the tanks poorly position it and clip others, or the RL hasn't set up good assignments.

[limber lion]

Nope

[hollow river]

Idk how you can fuck up that mechanic. Lmao

[hollow river]

It’ll be there waiting for you

Just log in one more time and it’ll draw you back in

[oak sky]

im trying to picture cev showing up

for a heroic pug

to casually do content

[hollow river]

[quasi grotto]

Will cev be back for 9.2? Or officially done with wow

That is the question

[oak sky]

hes done

from what i understand

[hollow river]

[oak sky]

i guess if things change in his life he could be back at some time

[quasi grotto]

Oh if it's lifestyle changes then thats a no go

[oak sky]

i mean idk

[quasi grotto]

I had similar but come back for SL

[oak sky]

i think hes really busy with music and stuff

[quasi grotto]

I don't think anyone quits forever 😂

[oak sky]

maybe not

[quasi grotto]

Blizzard have alot to do for 9.2

[hollow river]

10.0 IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT GUYS

[quasi grotto]

We can dream 😂

[hollow river]

I just want to be able to fully level and grind every class in the game if I wanted

And still keep my job irl

The alt unfriendliness is actually ridiculous with this game

[quasi grotto]

But makes the beggining to easy right ?

[hollow river]

What?

[quasi grotto]

Gotta scrap all the shitty grind systems

[hollow river]

It shouldn’t take weeks to ready a character to play the game

I.E. mythic raid

It’s sad lol

[quasi grotto]

Theyve only gotta overhaul the whole system

3 years for next exp?

[hollow river]

Nah it’s not that hard

Don’t make 5+ grind systems in the new expac

Pretty simple to make a couple fun things and a couple grind things

And up the exp you get for leveling

[quasi grotto]

Yeah just need to be simplified

Not expecting much for the rest of SL

[flint snow]

just curious, anyone have profiles that show bs/ds a loss over ep/mfd in ST?

venthyr + obedience

[hollow river]

everyone?

oh a loss? no

not me at least

[brazen zodiac]

trickz

[hollow river]

yo

[brazen zodiac]

u explained it before i think but im a troll

[balmy condor]

I've heard like 1-2 people have it

it's very uncommon

but not unheard of

[brazen zodiac]

if i switch to necro rn can i switch back to venthyr this Tuesday

[hollow river]

well this tuesday is 9.1.5

so i think so yes

but you have to do quests to go necro i think, if you've been necro before

[brazen zodiac]

never been

[hollow river]

unless u wait until tuesday to go necro

oh i think it's instant then?

[brazen zodiac]

im just tryna figure out when to renown farm and how to do it asap

[hollow river]

well u can just buy 40 renown tuesday

[fiery mauve]

isnt it you dont have to the quests if yo uve done it on acc

[flint snow]

ah ok, just wanted to make sure i wasn't tripping out and simming wrong

[hollow river]

i don't recall the quest stuff

[golden basalt]

Just switch on patch, 600g and you’re renown 40, any renown earned before below 40 is technically wasted effort

[timid cloud]

You can get up to 4 I think from the world bosses & then do all the raid bosses you can & emissaries.

Then it’s just spam M+ basically.

Torghast is whatever too.