assassination

[narrow ravine]

I got portals too, called engineering wormhole generator

[lavish lichen]

I mean you get portals

[alpine latch]

Not everyone in this game is pushing Mythic raiding (or even AotC)

[lavish lichen]

You ALSO get more end of dungeon loot

[hollow river]

I’m a mythic raider and could barely do 15s last season

[narrow ravine]

but they get nothing higher loot wise for doing above 15, its all just bragging rights

[bitter canyon]

monka

[lavish lichen]

You get 20% chance at an extra piece for every level past 15

So at +20 you get guaranteed 3 pieces

[alpine latch]

Cool ... Gear you probably don't need or can't use because you're Valor capped and can't upgrade it to an appropriate level

Fuck yeah

[narrow ravine]

but that gear is always 236

more of what those players dont need

[alpine latch]

Yup

[narrow ravine]

valor caps keep you from upgrading all but like 2-3 items

[kind talon]

ppl do high keys cause its fun

thats it

lol

[hollow river]

I don’t upgrade shit til I get a weapon or phial

Keys are actually fun this season

[narrow ravine]

I usually recommend my guild save all valor for trinkets and weapons

[alpine latch]

It's almost like that's not the type of people I'm talking about

[hollow river]

Hated lasted season

[lavish lichen]

Ooff thats a hot take

[kind talon]

wait wdym

[lavish lichen]

I think keys this season are garbage

[narrow ravine]

but you cant upgrade all the m+ gear

[lavish lichen]

This affix is terrible

[kind talon]

all i was saying was that theres no reason to do high keys other than it being fun

[bitter canyon]

I think this affix is way better than pride

[lavish lichen]

8.3 spoiled me honestly

[hollow river]

I like it

[lavish lichen]

Awakening was an amazing affix

[hollow river]

Pride was shit

[kind talon]

valor was a great change

[narrow ravine]

this affix could use some work like maybe 4 unique NPC elites per dungeon, not the same exact 4 with the same anima powers

[bitter canyon]

Skip cold heart on ToP and try the last boss with -50% movement speed for maximum fun

[hollow river]

Keys also feel easier this season

[kind talon]

keys were all giga nerfed

[lavish lichen]

I actually did that once

[kind talon]

like the dungeon mechanics

[lavish lichen]

Pug tank

[narrow ravine]

the borrowed power these elites give is far greater than the prideful limited buff

[alpine latch]

I don't give a fuck about people pushing +20-+25s. For people who's goal is getting AotC by the end of the patch, the m+ system is 10000% required for them in order to get gear, since they aren't Mythic raiding. Add on the fact that you're hamstrung by an RNG Great Vault where you may never get the item you actually need and it's a painful system that is created in order to piss people off.

[lavish lichen]

Used all 4 brez

[hollow river]

Nope nope and nope

[alpine latch]

Mythic raiders are the exception in WoW. The overwhelming majority of WoW accounts don't get KSM or AotC.

[hollow river]

Keys aren’t required to get aotc AT ALL

[lavish lichen]

^

[kind talon]

for ppl pushing aotc mythic+ is the only way for them to get 252 gear

but its not needed

also

[narrow ravine]

out gearing the content is what you are talking about, getting 252 items to do content that drops 239 items

[hollow river]

^^^

[alpine latch]

For a lot of people, they are. For Mythic raiders, of course they aren't.

[kind talon]

mythic first 3 are easier than heroic sylvanas

tbf

[lavish lichen]

You want to get guaranteed loot for doing nothinng? i’m confused

You want the exact item you need

Without grinding it

[hollow river]

You don’t need 252s for aotc lol

[lavish lichen]

Ok lol

[hollow river]

Even for heroic raiders

[narrow ravine]

in theory, heroic raids are tuned for people with less than 239 ilevel to defeat them

[hollow river]

Yep

[alpine latch]

I mean, sure - you can clear Mythic with 235 item level. That doesn't mean that more gear isn't required for 99% of the people who will do it.

[narrow ravine]

how much less, thats more about skill

[lavish lichen]

What you’re suggesting makes no sense in a loot based game

[hollow river]

I got aotc at like 215 last tier

[lavish lichen]

Ofc the loot has to have some RNG

[hollow river]

When I first started playing wow

[kind talon]

at that point @alpine latch the mythic system giving 252 itemlevel pieces is actually beneficial, cause its some content that they can do to give them an advantage

[narrow ravine]

with the dom sockets im not sure we have hit a dps check other than guardian of the first ones

[lavish lichen]

Or you would play for 1 week

[kind talon]

and even then, being able to upgrade something to 246

[narrow ravine]

dom socket bonuses are making this raid too easy

[hollow river]

^^^^

[lavish lichen]

Guardian dps check?

[narrow ravine]

so the fights are more about doing mechanics right, not raid dps

[alpine latch]

According to everyone else RNG on top of RNG is fun. That's literally what they are arguing for right now.

[hollow river]

In theory more guilds will get aotc/ce this tier

[lavish lichen]

Shit was killed in 20 pulls in RWf

With dom bonus now

[alpine latch]

This entire conversation started because I said RNG on top of RNG was a shit system - and somehow people started defending it.

[lavish lichen]

You’ll wreck that shit

[kind talon]

m+ vault is annoying ye

[bitter canyon]

I think people are argueing about you saying m+ was required for AOTC

[hollow river]

We al agree vault is annoying af

[kind talon]

it sucks that u cant get 252 phial without rolling the dice forever

[alpine latch]

For a lot of AotC guilds that get it the last week or two, it 100% is. Anyone who says otherwise has never been in one of those guilds.

[hollow river]

Nope

I have been in one of those guilds

[lavish lichen]

If you get aotc the last 2 weeks

[alpine latch]

Cool. We're going to agree to disagree heavily.

[narrow ravine]

well they could tweak the vault system, give a bad luck protection style currency, and say 4 weeks of not getting good drops from the vault you can buy any one item you want

[lavish lichen]

You haven’t been playing since the start of the patch

[alpine latch]

"If you get CE the last 2 weeks, you haven't been playing since the start of the patch"

[real bay]

vault is not the problem for those people its learning to play better

[hollow river]

Nah some guilds ended last season at 4/10 heroic bro

[alpine latch]

Not everyone is a high end raider

[lavish lichen]

Bruh

[alpine latch]

More people don't get AotC/KSM than get it

[lavish lichen]

I can’t even

[hollow river]

Go look lol👀

[narrow ravine]

that 2% more dps from replacing their trinket with a phial will change their lives though...

[hollow river]

LOL

[narrow ravine]

heh

[kind talon]

your argument about loot rng is literally better suited towards balancing mythic raid than normal

yet you are using it to talk about content that the "gear" has almost no effect on

namely, clearing normal and heroic raid

[narrow ravine]

at the end of last tier, I did note that I had maybe 3 items from raid drops equipped and the rest were all m+ geare

I think m+ is too much of our total loot pool

raids need to drop more/better stuff

[kind talon]

the marginal differences you get from rng loot system like getting specifically a 252 phial matter for like, rwf and thats about it

[bitter canyon]

You should be doing at least some m+ for gear since there’s really no other sources if you’re progging heroic

[kind talon]

you should be doing m+ for gear period

[narrow ravine]

im not in a world first guild but we were doing 6/10 mythic

and still m+ was the best source of gear

[bitter canyon]

You don’t need to spam it, doing ~4 a week of a 10+ key should be good enough to gear for AOTC by the end of season

[narrow ravine]

I use the Raider Audit spreadsheet and see who has done m+ each week then carry a few who have none done through a 15

make sure all my raiders have 1 to 2 slots at 252

but only 6 of us have two 252 slots for tuesday, 13 have a single 252 slot in the vault and 5 have done no m+ this week and I get to poke them

[kind talon]

who has 3 252 slots

[narrow ravine]

I am more worried about getting everyone a dom set bonus going, thats the biggest boost to dps in this tier

[bitter canyon]

I do, is that unusual?

[pale plank]

Not a big fan of the RNG stuff and Dom socket bonus

[narrow ravine]

I think dom sockets were a lazy way to not have to do tier sets per spec

[bitter canyon]

If you’re a high end raider you should definitely have been able to do a 15 first week

[pale plank]

I main a Druid, but now I am raiding on my rogue just Bcz I got all my set bonus/shards in my rogue

[gusty mirage]

[bitter canyon]

Being motivated to actually try though is another question

[gusty mirage]

I’m not even a high end raider

[narrow ravine]

ive found people who dont raid 3 nights a week often do more m+

[raven vapor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[bitter canyon]

Well yea they have one more free night to do m+

[kind talon]

LETS FUCKING GO

ME TOO BABY

[gusty mirage]

Got both crit haste rings at 252

[pale plank]

Nice!

[thorny pond]

atta boy!

[alpine latch]

I've been spending my spare time in other games. I'm finding it far more relaxxing than hoping my GV has something juicy on Tuesday.

[delicate bone]

if your focus is something "relaxing" then pushing hard content probably isnt your thing

[alpine latch]

You do know that "relaxing" is something that's required for everyone, right?

You don't have to be pushing content 24/7. Sometimes, people want to sleep, or watch some tv

[jagged osprey]

M+ is a scam

[delicate bone]

i mean yea, but then you cant really complain about loot drops if youd rather chill and not farm stuff can you?

[alpine latch]

I'm not complaining? I have 8 slots in my Great Vault this week.

But grinding more and getting a 9th for a 1/47 chance for the item I need isn't exactly a good use of my time

RNG-based looting is dogshit

[delicate bone]

im saying in general, people here complain more about loot than anything in the world, yet how many of them actually farm what theyre complaining about

[alpine latch]

Stop defending it.

[delicate bone]

its a mmo

it will always be rng

the argument is dumb

The vault is literally the best thing to happen to WoW in SL

[thorny pond]

I loved getting midas trinket 5 times/season last xpac

[alpine latch]

It's an improvement on a shitty design. That doesn't mean it's a good design...

[fallen arch]

Man shit is salty today in here

[delicate bone]

i think its a great design man

[fallen arch]

I like it, keep it coming

[halcyon zealot]

ya guys are outta pocket, making work go by nicely

[bitter canyon]

Can’t tell if that’s an insult to Shadowlands or not lul

[zinc frost]

This triggered me on many levels lmao

[delicate bone]

lolol, it might be

[thorny pond]

I think it's a good direction. I hope they give us some agency in the future to target specific dungeon drop tables is all

protect against running PF 50 times

[alpine latch]

"I really like working hard all week and hoping I get paid on Tuesday. But, I might just get a pile of shit... But at least I get 3 piles of shit to choose from instead of 1. I'm tired of runny shit all the time. I think I want moldy shit this week"

Good design choice. 10/10 system

[delicate bone]

lmfao

did you play before SL?

[alpine latch]

Yup

[delicate bone]

The vault is literally amazing

you might get what you want

you might not

[alpine latch]

That's not amazing ...

[delicate bone]

but guess what, if you dont

you farm

and get 246 from valor

[alpine latch]

You'd love MLMs

You MIGHT get rich. If you don't, oh well. Try another.

[delicate bone]

the difference from 246-252 is negligible at best

[lavish lichen]

You’re analogies are awful honestly

[delicate bone]

listen man, its a mmo video game

[lavish lichen]

If you don’t enjoy the game just cancel sub?

[delicate bone]

if everything was guaranteed, noone would play more than a week

[lavish lichen]

^

He wants THE EXACT item he needs

Without grinding it

[alpine latch]

No one said that I didn't want to grind it.

You can't even read

[delicate bone]

the vault should literally be "oh dope, i got a 252 now i dont have to worry about that piece"

[high berry]

Why

[lavish lichen]

Nah I have my assistant next to me reading your comments bc I’m illiterate

[kind talon]

its not the vault

valor is amazing

the vault is like

w/e

[shadow pivot]

yup valor's the good shit

[kind talon]

but im super happy they added valor

[delicate bone]

i tihnk the vault is amazing, 6 chances, 3 from raid and 3 from m+

[shadow pivot]

Vault is RNG even if slightly less RNG than what it was before

[delicate bone]

if you dont need anything, oh well, move on

[thorny pond]

Just wish valor cap was more

[kind talon]

the vault is better than the bfa box

yes

but like

valor system is infinitely better

than a weekly system

cause i can grind

[lavish lichen]

I’m not really sure what you guys want from vault

[alpine latch]

Exactly my point ...

[kind talon]

and get relevant gear

[delicate bone]

i mean yea, i kind of put them into the same boat

[red bloom]

just get the loot you need 4head

[delicate bone]

vault and valor kind of go hand in hand

[kind talon]

nah

they dont

[delicate bone]

yes

[alpine latch]

The SL Great Vault is better than BFA, sure. It's still a shitty system though, it's just less shitty now. Valor is far, far better.

[lavish lichen]

You want a GUARANTEED BIS every week?

[kind talon]

cause valor wasnt added until

[high berry]

The vault is better than the bonus coins. It could be improved by maybe selecting items you want and tasks to help increase the chance of getting that item.

[kind talon]

9.05

[shadow pivot]

Might be an unpopular opinion but I'd very much rather have a grinding system like valor point, then a weekly "token" that allows you to do the 246 -> 252 transition on your piece of gear over a RNG vault

[delicate bone]

it was added for what reason?

to supplement the vault

[kind talon]

cause vault was shit

and u couldnt grind m+ for gear

[pale plank]

Quick question: it’s ur set bonus shards that needs to be in the same level right? So if I am using frost, my unholy can be a rank 1 right?

[alpine latch]

Woah woha woah .. You'd rather the game respect your time? What are you, a casual who's not grinding 97 dungeons a week?

[kind talon]

it was added to give m+ relevancy

had nothing to do with the vault

[lavish lichen]

Ahh so you want to put in 4 hours week

[delicate bone]

you literally just cant make this argument

[lavish lichen]

But get the same rewards as someone that puts in 50

[high berry]

@shadow pivot there is a valor system

[shadow pivot]

You'd still have the same time gate as you still get 1 item/week but instead of praying some rng you'd have what you want at some point

[lavish lichen]

Yea makes sense

[alpine latch]

Yes. Your set bonus is based on your lowest level of that set. Your non-set shards have no bearing on the set bonus, only the power of those individual shards.

[pale plank]

[kind talon]

wasnt valor originally a wod thing

[thorny pond]

Older

[alpine latch]

No. People want to be rewarded for their time, and not hope that they are. Valor is the exact system people want - you get rewarded for playing. The cap, unfortunately, limits the reward which means that there's a limit to how much you can be rewarded.

[thorny pond]

Badge systems have been a thing forever

[kind talon]

woah

like

tbc?

[thorny pond]

yes

/5head

[kind talon]

and was there a weekly chest in tbc?

wait

there wasnt

woah

[thorny pond]

thank god now

no

[delicate bone]

this is the most dense conversation ive seen here in so long lol

[kind talon]

yeah the valor cap is annoying, gating peoples' investment in the game to 1 week intervals is not a fun system

but at the same time

if they dont do it then ppl just farm all the items they need and then raidlog anyways

[lavish lichen]

That’s exactly the point

[shadow pivot]

I mean sure Valor needs a cap otherwise you'd get 246 ilvl week 1 which is not what a MMO should be but the current cap is ridiculous

it takes a month to max a 2-handed weapon

[kind talon]

so its their way of forcing you to put in the same amount of time you would otherwise, just weekly, instead of all at once or when u have time

[lavish lichen]

You would play 1 week lol

[alpine latch]

Sure, but who cares? If people invest heavily in the beginning of the patch and raidlog, who gives a shit? Let them. It's a far better system than farming m+ all week and not getting a weapon in your GV for months.

[lavish lichen]

If the removed the cap

It would punish people with limited play time even more

[kind talon]

well yeah, thats the point

[lavish lichen]

Bc you better believe I’m taking 2 weeks off work with uncapped valor

[bitter canyon]

I think the cap is necessary

[delicate bone]

its 100% necessary

[thorny pond]

They literally care about player engagement metrics. Raid logging is terrible for them since no shareholders care about average time over the course of a patch

[lavish lichen]

GL catching up the.

[alpine latch]

I think a cap is necessary. I find it odd that it's so punishing for some item slots and extremely light for others, though.

God forbid you need a 2h

You're fucked

[delicate bone]

you get more value from a 2h

than a neck

[alpine latch]

Sure, but again - who cares

[lavish lichen]

Some slots are more powerful than others……

[delicate bone]

a LOT more

[lavish lichen]

Bruh…

[shadow pivot]

I don't get the 'punish' thing tho even if I agree a cap is kinda required. It is required because a MMO by nature tends to be a grind over time, but if I were playing less I wouldn't give a damn about people playing more than me having more gear? It's not punishment, it's just fair that someone investing more time into the game has better rewards

[alpine latch]

Ypi

[high berry]

I can’t use a two hander anyway

[alpine latch]

You're logic is, "Everyone should get some reward but if they get more than me then fuck them"

[lavish lichen]

You already get rewarded more for playing more, but to a smaller degree

[alpine latch]

If people need a 2h, they are extremely more punished than if you need a ring or a trinket. It's quite odd.

All because someone has bad RNG luck

That isn't in their control

[lavish lichen]

That’s what loot based games are for

[delicate bone]

you can only blame RNG so much

you can mitigate it as much as youre willing to

[shadow pivot]

You don't get any extra rewards in the current patch, you just get a higher chance for a reward which is an horrible system imo - I mean if I meant to gamble, I'd open boxes in Overwatch

[delicate bone]

ive seen people run PF literally 50 times back to back before a phial

[kind talon]

true, that shit was really stupid

[alpine latch]

You can't without buying run ... You're stuck at 236

[kind talon]

imagine being a fury warrior

[lavish lichen]

They whole idea for Blizz is to play as a guild

[kind talon]

btw

[lavish lichen]

Its one of the reasons raid gives better rewards than m+

[kind talon]

you need two 2h weapons which are 1k valor each

🤦‍♂️

[alpine latch]

Unless you're buying funnel runs in Heroic/Mythic raids, you're limited to 236 if you're a 2h user and you have shit luck.

[delicate bone]

why are you buying runs of anything?

[lavish lichen]

Bruh

[kind talon]

to get funneled gear?

[delicate bone]

you have the ability to join a guild and raid

[kind talon]

LOL

[high berry]

And what’s the price of upgrading 2 1 handers?

[lavish lichen]

Have you heard if the concept of a GUILD?

[shadow pivot]

I literally have a guildmate stuck with a 239 2-handed weapon since week 1 while doing 10 +15s every weeks crying every single tuesday xd

[halcyon zealot]

y’all are out of control

[kind talon]

echo and limit bought funnel runs for sylvanas dagger

[lavish lichen]

That’s how you get gear without buying a funnel

[kind talon]

tbf

[alpine latch]

Because that's the only way to "mitigate" like you're saying is possible @delicate bone. Are you even reading this conversation you're a part of?

[lavish lichen]

Because they needed it in 1 week….

[kind talon]

realistically it could never drop

tho

[delicate bone]

raiding is literally the point of the end game, m+ is an afterthought that a majority of people focus on after they clear the raid

[lavish lichen]

Their funnels are different

[delicate bone]

yes? and its a prettys simple concept

[lavish lichen]

They only pay if you trade the item LOL

[bitter canyon]

I think there’s a good majority of players who mainly focus on m+

over raid

[undone scroll]

I prefer m+

[delicate bone]

sure a "good majority" thats fine, but most that i know accept that raid is the focus and end game

[bitter canyon]

high m+ keys definetly count as end game as much as high end raiding

[lavish lichen]

Yea guilds don’t exist at all. You have to PAY your guild to do heroic and mythic got it

[kind talon]

thats incorrect

[lavish lichen]

For a bunch if items they certainly do

You only get paid for that item if you loot it

[lavish lichen]

And you get paid X amount for going

[kind talon]

just saying

but yeah there are those too

they have clout for sure

which lets them get ppl to join for free

but if they HAD to pay, they still would

you know?

[delicate bone]

it literally only matters for the rwf

[kind talon]

yeah

[delicate bone]

to that extent

[kind talon]

of course

[lavish lichen]

The whole you HAVE TO buy funnels is just BS

You play with your guild and get loot traded

[kind talon]

yeah i agree on that point

[lavish lichen]

If you don’t have a guild go find one

That’s what blizzard wants

[bitter canyon]

That’s fair, since I believe m+ is pretty new to the game so people might not think too much about it when compared to raiding

[lavish lichen]

Guilds help keep the game afloat

[shadow pivot]

I'm not saying you're wrong on the guild thing; nor do I dislike the system

It's just that the current RNG is kinda too big

imo

like

https://raider.io/characters/eu/dalaran/Smellybeuteu

This is one of my guild's raider

we're pretty much all 245+ (ignore the fact he disconnected with pvp gear and lower ilvl), everybody can trade 2hand wepaon

[bitter canyon]

226 5/10m damn

[undone scroll]

M+ feels bad

[shadow pivot]

he's been clearing hm since week 1, and Eye of the jailer m since week 1

yet

he still rocks

a 236 weapon

Sure he's the only one in our guild, etc

[undone scroll]

Right now cuz 5 slots with sim are better

[shadow pivot]

but the simple fact that rng exists to such an extent is kind of stupid

imo

[lavish lichen]

That’s fair

We had someone previously with the same issue

Actually was a Fdk too…

Cringe

I think vault + tokens would be really good

Maybe even tokens we can use for dungeons?

That would be nice

[shadow pivot]

It could be so easily fixed and remove alot of frustration from people like him if the whole weekly reward system had a better design than pure rng

[alpine latch]

Oh wow - so literally what I suggested an hour ago that you've been arguing against?

[shadow pivot]

FF XIV Boss reward system is the best I know for a MMO

[alpine latch]

"Just get traded the item by a guildie it's ez" isn't a sufficient fix for a punishing RNG-based system. There's far more than they can do to improve loot in general.

[alpine latch]

I 100% agree with this.

[delicate bone]

they have their own issues that the top tier FF raiders complain about as well

id recommend listening to the podcast they did with Max a few days ago if you want details

[shadow pivot]

of course there is, but it's still alot less frustrating to play as an end game raider

atleast thats my take as someone who's been trying to reach a decent level on both game

[limber lion]

Alright boys, let's continue the discussion in #wow-general. This is not assassination talk anymore.

[delicate bone]

not to them, they basically were saying that its just as frustrating but about a different thing

[limber lion]

Or take it to dms.

[pale plank]

[alpine latch]

@limber lion How's Sylvanas going? Are you running Sin for that prog or Sub?

[limber lion]

I've just stuck to Sin. Best pull 55%, boss is dead if everyone is alive on the last platform.

[alpine latch]

Oh damn. Nice man

[limber lion]

Haven't made it there yet, people just die before that.

[alpine latch]

You raiding again tonight/tomorrow to get it?

[limber lion]

Yup, today.

[alpine latch]

GL dude. Worst case it's next week though.

[gusty adder]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[gusty adder]

!mutilate

how is it - we never use ambush outside of blindside proc?

[spice spire]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[gusty adder]

Perfect

and the standard opener for necro, would that be mutilate or sbs ?

[spice spire]

For ST:
Sbs > SnD > Mut > rupture

[gusty adder]

aight

[spice spire]

Then just normal shit from there

Also from stealth obviously 😛

[gusty adder]

hehe yea :>

And what ive been doing I suppose - but Ive been missing CP from my MA-windows from vanish, as I have been using ambush

so thanks

[idle swift]

!op

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[high berry]

@spice spire even running MA? I thought you opened up with Mutilate?

[limber lion]

Garrote before the Rupture ;)

[spice spire]

With any covenant except Necrolord, that’s correct; however, you want sbs to be your first global to keep it rolling

[strange python]

i had a wet dream.

dreamt assa had Restless Blades

[spice spire]

FUCK. You’re right - I keep forgetting to add that into that first bit

Plus first using SnD doesn’t really matter the CP you generate

[high berry]

@spice spire thanks. I guess I am going to change my opener

[spice spire]

Small change nbd 🙂

Gl papi

[jaunty kayak]

remember to hit boss from behind with the first SBS :) countless times i got the spike parried and started with 0 cps ^^

[alpine latch]

As long as you get the buttons right, order isn't THAT big of a deal. IE - if you rupture first and SnD after, it's a DPS loss but overall it's pretty dang minimal. The big thing is making sure you get up rupture and SnD, then getting your CP up before going in with Vendetta and Shiv

Doing the optimal rotation is already preferred, obviously.

[lethal zodiac]

Should i try to get a 2nd Edge of Night Heroic or Should i use a 252 Mainhand

[strange python]

imagine having one edge of enight

[pseudo hamlet]

Sim yourself

[lethal zodiac]

@strange python got it at the first kill lul

[pseudo hamlet]

For me it shows that 252 dagger and HC Sylv dagger > 2x hc sylv dagger

[alpine latch]

I mean, yes - you should try to get a second. You should Sim yourself though to see if you should wear it when you get it.

[fallen arch]

Think the latter

[strange python]

I am rocking 236 daggers the big dam

[fallen arch]

Get one to 246

Big gain

[sturdy mesa]

atleast you've got 236 daggers i'm stil stuck with my elite 233 pvp ones

[strange python]

nah the second i do i get dagger in vault

if i dont this tuesday im for sure upgrading one

seems like every other rogue i inspect has dagger or fist weapon 😦

i only get second hand loots

[fallen arch]

Sin with fist nah

[strange python]

well ofc not, but for OL

is playing all rogues spec frowned upon ?

[fallen arch]

Nah just outlul

[strange python]

😦

[fallen arch]

Especially now theyre bis for all content

[strange python]

are they currently simming higher in raid?

i thought sub had the lead last i checked

[fallen arch]

Yes

Pins

[alpine latch]

Last I checked, Sub simmed higher but Sin was performing better based on public logs. I haven't looked in a while though

Sin is in a good spot and I can perform it at an okay level, so I'm rocking Sin

[strange python]

im guessing its OL with fist/dagger and frost set? or just OL in general

I would outpace the other rogue in my guild pretty frequently as sin and him as OL

[alpine latch]

No clue. I'm sure #outlaw has more info on that

A large portion of us are Venthyr and run Sin or Sin/Sub

[strange python]

yea i am as well

[narrow ravine]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sdNkRnVuHnA4gxNghd4CY4 I keep trying to sim dashing and its close but usually a few dps lower than doomblade for me

[plain thistle]

which is expected for your gear

[narrow ravine]

I tried sub for a bit, couldn't seem to make the numbies with it as much as sin

[alpine latch]

My understanding is r4+ and 40% crit is where Dashing shines

Your crit is pretty low at 29% for that

[narrow ravine]

RNGesus give me more crit gear please

[alpine latch]

Which means you're probably simming IQD higher than Phial right now

[narrow ravine]

I should have 32% crit in that gear

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I'm just going off of your gear in Armory

I had 33% crit and r4 Frost and DS was only like a 12 DPS increase for me

But I started tweaking my gearsets and it got a lot better the more crit I got

[narrow ravine]

trying to convince myself to make dashing next or make zoldyck next.. at 262

or if going outlaw/sub is better play for m+

[red plaza]

Are you pushing really high keys? Zold really starts to gain value the longer the mobs stay alive in execute range

[woeful meteor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[cerulean nest]

so if my unholy set sims decently higher than frost for the time being. should I hold off on crafting dashing?

[timid coral]

What would you be saving for if you wait?

[cerulean nest]

like a 262 zold for m+, or an obedience to fuck around with sub

[fallen arch]

Your choice

I’d make zoldyck for m+

Because that’s probably on legs so more stat value than cloak

But that’s me

[dark token]

Obedience slaps in m+ and you can play sub too, sooo

It beats Zoldyck by a decent amount

[fallen arch]

Not if you’re necro

[dark token]

If you are necro you probably multiclass sin/outlaw anyway

[fallen arch]

Then you beat enemies altogether

[dark token]

Or you should

[cerulean nest]

I am not necro haha

[burnt star]

Fortified + bolstering. Zoldyc was insane for that week

Subterfuge/zoldyc

[fallen arch]

I skip bolster weeks usually

But ye some legendaries have their niches in which they excell

[burnt star]

Bolster really isnt that bad for us

[fallen arch]

No you’re right, it’s bad in general

But it’s fine in a coordinated group without a braindead tank

[cerulean nest]

how many weeks does it take to get 1650 cinders now?

like starting from 0 now

[cobalt pelican]

4 assuming no mission boarding

[fallen arch]

I think 3?

[cerulean nest]

oh easy

[fallen arch]

Oh ye 4

[cobalt pelican]

if you mission board you need to get 120 total cinders from it across the 3 weeks

[cerulean nest]

I'll probably make obedience then and see if frost + dashing is better for me by the time I have enough for the next one

since the jump from 235-262 zold isnt that immense

[fallen arch]

It isn’t immense on anything

It does cost immense amounts of gold

[cerulean nest]

yeah I've got a pocket cloak maker luckily

so Im set on obe and dashing

pants are another story for sure

[fallen arch]

Is that even doable?

[cobalt pelican]

idk i odn't do that shit

i have no idea how frequently you can finish them

[elder garden]

I ran a 16 spires last night as sin for the first time in forever. Only has talents and leggo correct, forgot proper enchants, scuffed rotation, and conduits choices. Necro, bonesmith, r4 Zoldyck. Still pulled more dps than the other 2 in the group. Been running outlaw for m+ and sin for raid, and it felt refreshing to play sin in m+ .

[fallen arch]

Ye sin is pretty good on Spires

[elder garden]

I wanted to run more keys as it, but didn't have the chance. Also just made my r6 celerity, so I definitely have to try that out too.

I'm a firm believer that CT needs to be baseline again.

[fallen arch]

Outlaw arms and gouge too

But ye

[narrow ravine]

black powder is baseline, seems like we ought to have CT too

[zinc frost]

CT baseline just seems to be a no brainer..

[elder garden]

The only argument against it being baseline would be incorporating it in ST rotation. That could be fixed with turning so it wouldn't be necessary. I don't remember if it was part of ST rotation when it was last baseline.

[lethal zodiac]

39 runs and i was able to buy it from our healer for 200k

[pseudo hamlet]

Healer(assuming that he's from your guild) selling you a DPS trinket for 200k.

If that's not fucked up then I have no idea what is.

[lethal zodiac]

no random healer

like my guild runs PF with me 39 times

[shut flame]

Still, its odd, to trade drop in dung, like its useful for healer

[pseudo hamlet]

Still feels weird though, like paying real money for holding a hand with a girl.

[lethal zodiac]

im honest i just dont want to do that dungeon anymore i was very close to just quit cuz i was mad af

[fallen arch]

That is fucking disgusting

A healer asking you gold for it

[shut flame]

Maybe it was offspec for healer tho

How this even dropped for healer, its dd trinket

Dd loot settings i guess

[dusk void]

Had to be off spec healer that was offered gold if it dropped

[lethal zodiac]

well lets say it this way, im happy i got it

but another question, is there a way to accurate sim IQD? it always feels like a bait sim

[vestal wren]

you can alter iqd in your sim if thats the question

[zinc frost]

Glad you got trinket but yo fuck that go for asking for money

[vestal wren]

those 2 options are the ones you probably want to look at:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ExpansionOptions

[alpine latch]

It be like that sometimes... I know Shaman that specifically run it with enh loot to sell it to people.

[lethal zodiac]

1 more question about raidbots, is there a way to sim the gear in my inventory on max upgraded rang to see what is worth upgrading?

[vestal wren]

you can do so in gear compare

[minor spear]

Pay to win 🤚🏽

[timid coral]

You can also edit the simc by adding ilevel=xxx to the end of lines for items you want to sim on other ilvls

[vestal wren]

?

[random comet]

M+ question: poison bomb or crimson tempest on tyranical weeks? (thinking 15+ and above)

[slow wadi]

Crimson tempest

[shut flame]

Ct now definitely

[slim pebble]

I congratulate you on your 252 phial on Tuesday

[lethal zodiac]

i wouldnt even be mad ngl

[weak bane]

having a little trouble simming if anyone can help me, selecting the higher tier frost shards but it looks like my sim is slecting the lower ones i have equipped

[late grove]

i upgraded a phial drop the other week to 246 and got one in my vault 3 days after 😐 not complaining but i'm valor starved

[fallen arch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[safe rover]

make sure replace current gems is ticked

[cloud plinth]

hey guys, whats best leggo for sin atm

[shut flame]

Check the faq, its all there

[spice spire]

Correct

[alpine latch]

I just started telling people it's Celerity

[spice spire]

Kinda toxic

[alpine latch]

lol

[regal cape]

I've had a lot of success with BIG Shiv lego

[arctic walrus]

Oh okay let me sound the alarms so we can rework all pins, faqs, and guides

[regal cape]

[spice spire]

Thicc toxic blade

[gusty adder]

you guys stacking more crit for aoe-fights like fatescribe/KT

or just regular ST build with tempest?

[obtuse robin]

well frost is the play so that requires crit

[gusty adder]

well ye, but seeing I need 112 embers for frost4, ill be running doomblade/UH4 for 2 weeks it seems 🙂

[obtuse robin]

if u have the right crit r3 should be better then that

i assume u have simmed urself

[gusty adder]

Well, I dont have yet at least 🙂

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/w4GEso1Rbo231ANFeq5Lat

and this is with 5 imaginary critgems that wont come for 3 days

I am necro tho

[obtuse robin]

oh

doomblade will prolly be better for u atm then

and uh

yea

u should also not sim gems slots if u dont have them

[gusty adder]

Ha, I know - I was just fucking around to see the benefits ill get in three days 🙂

[obtuse robin]

? are u buying gem slots

[limber lion]

Always CT, in every dungeon, with every affix.

[obtuse robin]

for non 252 items?

[alpine latch]

I'm so jealous ... You have all 5 dom sockets.

[agile geode]

Guys

Mneminic equipment Is a bit disappointing

[alpine latch]

There's nothing else to spend the Korthia currency on really. The Conduit upgrades aren't really worth it more often than not.

[agile geode]

Lel

0.9

[obtuse robin]

uh

they r worth more then spending slots on a non 252 item

thats for sure

[alpine latch]

Not really

Upgrading my Subtelty conduit doesn't really help me at all

[obtuse robin]

yea thats sub

[alpine latch]

Conduit upgrades don't only upgrade your current spec

And you don't get to pick what it upgrades

[obtuse robin]

if u have played sinse launch on 9.1

[alpine latch]

We have like 20-something conduits and only 4-5 are really needed to upgrade

[obtuse robin]

u should be about done with all 252

[alpine latch]

lol

I've played since launch and I'm no where near all 252 conduits

Are you saying you are?

[obtuse robin]

uh yea?

[rotund flame]

Lol same. I have all at 226 and a couple at 239

[obtuse robin]

u should be getting 2k-2.5k research everyday if u know what ur doing

[alpine latch]

Mind linking your character? I'm quite curious to see what you're rocking

[rotund flame]

My only 252 is we’ll places steel from M tarra

Only ever got one upgrade from adamant vaults so far

[alpine latch]

I haven't gotten a single conduit upgrade from raid yet

[obtuse robin]

ill be done in like a week

iv gotten 1 from raid and one from toghast

[strong wigeon]

!deadly

[alpine latch]

Is it just 2 ranks from 226 to 252?

[obtuse robin]

yea

also

[alpine latch]

That's not too bad,then

[obtuse robin]

depending on ur spec

conduits r big

like cto

for him being necro using doomblade

[alpine latch]

I simmed it earlier and I got more benefit from a full set of sockets than I did with 252 conduits

[obtuse robin]

252 maim

i didnt say conduits were bigger dps then gems

[alpine latch]

Anyone know how many conduits we actually have? I know it's ~20

[obtuse robin]

21

not counting the other cov ones

[gusty adder]

and how much is the upgrade-thingy? 2,5?

[obtuse robin]

u can buy 1 every day and a half

[gusty adder]

2,5k*

[obtuse robin]

its 3k

[alpine latch]

So, that's 126,000 research

If you're getting 2k a day it's 63 days of farming

[obtuse robin]

yea ive spent like 80k so far prolly more

[alpine latch]

You clearly have a lot more time to grind rares than a large majority of the WoW population

[obtuse robin]

uh

its like 1 hour plus

min

it doesnt take that long

as soon as u figure out tp timers and the order the shade bosses spawn in its so easy

having the bear whistle also helps alot

[alpine latch]

The Whistle is the best part about Korthia, IMO

[obtuse robin]

u also have to do the rift maw ones to

it also dpended on how fast u got t4

[sacred isle]

Dont spend upgrade tokens untill you have droppes all 239 from heroic

And pref wait untill U have most from mythic also

Before upgrading from 239

[obtuse robin]

to be fair i have also gotten lucky most of the conduits that r still 239 conduits i dotn care about mostly sub ones and end and finnesse

sin and outlaw r 252

[spring axle]

!deadly

[ornate lake]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[strange python]

best shards set for assa in the raid? fast pls

[vestal wren]

the one you have highest rank in

[strange python]

i still didnt upgrade anything

...

XD

[vestal wren]

well then sim it

[frosty cedar]

frost for chads

[vestal wren]

frost is usually only good if you have higher ranks in it

[frosty cedar]

its superior for me at 3, if they havent upgrading anything they probably have enough for 4 u need crit though but if building for long term its probably best imo

[strange python]

doomblade or dashing?

Is dashing decent without the frost bonus?

I have the shards just need the gear piece for the set bonus

[pseudo hamlet]

You can always sim yourself 😄

[astral plover]

feels bnad

i only have 30% crit

[pseudo nimbus]

Theotar and Nadjia are simming nearly the same for me(+-15dps) which one is more versatile?

[thorny pond]

Theo with token offers more HPS

[pseudo nimbus]

Then Theo it is. Thank you 🙂

[cerulean nest]

you guys recommend PB or CT on sylvanas? i've tried both and am not sure which one feels like the better call

[soft shale]

for mythic if you're going dashing frost pb

ct is fine if you need some cleave but most guilds send rogue to blast goliath or soul boi anyway

[cerulean nest]

yeah thats what im thinking

im talking about aotc for now, with unholy

but still

[random fossil]

how do shard drops work again? is it one chance per week across all difficulties or once per difficulty?

[vast forum]

across difficulties

per boss

[random fossil]

reee

[pale plank]

hm... i wonder if i simmed wrong, theo is simming about 500dps less than nadjia for me

[cold rampart]

should i save flag with vendetta ?

[frosty cedar]

only if you wont lose a cast of flag

[cerulean nest]

is there a way in plater to make specific named mobs have different colors? want to do the big adds in sylvanas p2

[minor anchor]

For Fusion Amplifier, should I be using it on CD or holding it for something specific?

[spice spire]

Use on CD

[real bay]

ive bound it with flag as its same CD

[indigo totem]

same

[mint gorge]

any tips for nerz myth if you have the orb as a rogue, is it possible to step back at all, tried a couple times but seems crazy fast

[solid venture]

yes, tell ur monk / dh / warrior to do the orbs

[mint gorge]

ha

is it not poss to step back then?

[solid venture]

u wont have step back for knockback as assa

[thorny pond]

Door of shadows works

But you do big dam

Tell raid lead to keep you on boss

[vast forum]

i think he meant if you have the knockback thing

not the orbs to drop off

and you need the mass dispel cast time WA... you need to shadowstep before you're over the edge which is like 0.1 sec 😄

[mint gorge]

yeah, the knock back thing

just managed to do it there, jesus its legit 0.1 sec rofl

[solid venture]

ooh

well yeah if you are the far one with bomb u should target the guy with bomb behind u and be giga fast with pressing step in case u get sent the wrong way

[quasi venture]

if you go far you target the "close person" with bomb and shadowstep. get the mass dispell weakaura and its fairly simple to time it.

[solid venture]

[heavy coral]

Thats some advanced zoom techniques

[slim wagon]

I went far plenty of times and could always step on boss even

just make sure you look at the side so you dont have to do camera shenanigans for your step

[crystal vault]

mouseover target frame or focus

[toxic root]

Hello guys what's the drill with Dom sockets or is it on faq

Seems it ain't, what's the best Dom sock bonus frost or chaos

[vast forum]

depends on your gear

generally, frost with high crit and dashing legendary is best

[toxic root]

Thanks I have like 37%crit

Might be ok

[dark swift]

Kinda on a low side but try simming it

[white jetty]

37 is low? Damn

[hollow river]

Some people sim higher with frost with lower crit than that

[dark swift]

40%+ seems to be the sweet spot for me

[hollow river]

Just have to sim

Everyone’s profile is different

[white jetty]

Gotcha!

[hollow river]

I.e. One person might have 800 crit that makes 40% where one person could have 1200 that is 35% of their stats

Always just sim 8)

[tulip fern]

Evening team - just a quick question referencing Assa in M+ - probably my weakest out of the three specs what are your general rules when playing as ass - struggling with energy being rather slow. Thanks team

[placid pagoda]

Garrotte three from stealth, 4th and rupture, then fok, crimson, Fok and go back to your first target refresh garrotte and add rupture

[narrow ravine]

keep G/Rupt on many things

[placid pagoda]

Then fok, rupture the next target , foK and refresh CT

[narrow ravine]

don't spam CT, just keep the dot rolling

[placid pagoda]

All depends on how big the pack is, if it’s 5 or more I tend to just spam FoK and CT but 1/3 targets I look to bleed all of them

[jolly comet]

RIP Shrouded Suffocation 😫 we hardly knew you

[placid pagoda]

Whats this?

[pseudo hamlet]

246 Infinitely Divisible Ooze vs 252 Inscrutable Quantum Device?

In both ST and M+?

[tulip fern]

right this I get but I still feel energy starved and my regen is quite low - very rarely can I spam my FoK wondering if you need certain stat weights to play assa in keys?

[jolly comet]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=278666/shrouded-suffocation

[pseudo hamlet]

Ofc will sim myself, just wondering. Hate on-click trinkets(that cannot be bind to any CD), especially the ones that gives mana to the healers

[placid pagoda]

More bleeds on targets = more energy regenerate - you wanna make sure you running alacrity which is second final row

[placid pagoda]

Crit mastery is best for keys

[placid pagoda]

Personally I run as much crit as I can get, and just make sure I have garrotte and rupture on as many targets as I can - if it’s 3/4 targets you always FoK, never mutilate for combo points too so you can very quickly spread bleeds by FoK, garrotte rupture, FoK and swap targets rinse repeat - Lego is also Zoldiks

[clever perch]

Guys

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/s5dRZDqLdrSi5GTSAfTjr5 236 mainhand and 233 sylv offhand or 233 sylv dagger as mainhand?

[woeful meteor]

doesnt the sim already answer the question?

[pseudo hamlet]

main hand with higher ilvl

[toxic root]

You always put the biggest dam dagger as main

[clever perch]

Actually doesn't cuz it tells me that 233 mainhand increases dps xD

[woeful meteor]

it may be a dps increase but thats the maximum possible with your gear

[proud yacht]

I have a 236 dagger and 233 edge of night as well. 236 as main is higher in all sims for me.

[pseudo hamlet]

lol, it tells you that with 233 main hand and 236 offhand your dps will be better BUT with other rings. The best result you see on the top of the list.

[raven hawk]

sbs bleed counts towards doomblade correct?

[woeful meteor]

yes

[tulip fern]

mind showing your sim?

[oak sky]

definitely just do dungeon slice sims to decide on gear for m+

[placid pagoda]

Away from home so don’t have it to hand, I’m at 39% crit 23% haste and 25% mastery I think

[placid pagoda]

Sims don’t really @mean much for m+ due to it never being fixed pulls etc, like I sim 2/3k more dps in sub if my pala friend is tanking coz he pulls like the entire tunnel in SD, vs pugs pulling packs of 2/3/4 I sim higher in in assa / outlaw due to lower targets / mobs alive for longer etc

[placid pagoda]

I would say for m+ go with the spec you feel most comfortable in, outlaw is good coz you just RTB, blade flurry and pump, assa uses a bit more brainpower and management as you gotta maintain bleeds + work around mechanics & sub is better for big pack pulls IMO

[flat musk]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[tiny dagger]

Need some assistance-

Just swapped from Necro to venth, both are 57 Renown, I am hesitant to craft a lego because I am unsure how much of a difference it will be,

Currently, I have 249 DB Cloak, and I am looking into getting either Obedience or dashing.

The primary reason I went Venth was because I dislike Outlaw and wanted to push key with Sub, and obedience is good for both assass and Sub.

But now with frost shards and crit stacking it seems like I should be more focused on Dashing for my raid environment? Thoughts?

[thin imp]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[lavish lichen]

I’d craft ob to have access to both, the level of the legendary isn’t of great importance

[tiny dagger]

I guess I should note, that my frost set is only rank 2 and my unholy is rank 4

[idle star]

Is dashing ok in keys? Or are you swimming in energy. Thinking frost set for keys

[tiny dagger]

Set bonuses dont effect M+

[idle star]

Ah yeh forgot

[lavish lichen]

Yea in m+ you take 3 damage shards + 2 utility

[timid talon]

How are you all handling balls on mythic pain? Rupture then back to boss or are you throwing envenoms and shivs into them

[balmy condor]

dashing is also not great in kesy

just in general

[tiny dagger]

@timid talon If you follow infectous he says focusing balls is not optimal and wasted time

[timid talon]

I agree but everyone on my roster is bad so I have to hit it or we die

my extra 15k damage per ball matters apparently

[tiny dagger]

Sounds like you need a new roster 🙂

[balmy condor]

following infexious

[topaz saffron]

🥺

[tiny dagger]

Jokes aside. if your roster is struggling that hard to kill th balls, swap to OL and go for the increased ranged and the more instant dmg.

[timid talon]

was considering it

I dont have the gear for sub

[woeful meteor]

You need a lot of crit and a pretty high frost set for dashing to pull ahead of doomblade, unless you are already omega geared just make obedience and craft dashing later. You could of course sim dashing with current gear and decide if it’s worth it already which it probably wont be atm. @tiny dagger

[tiny dagger]

Appreciate it, ima drop the ash on obedience then-

[wintry mica]

is there anything that would cause phial to outsim a higher ilvl guardian trinket?

just recently it started saying a 233 phial is better than the 239 fusion amp

[woeful meteor]

Ash doesn’t matter anyway 2-3 hours of torghast spam and you get a r4 legendary from starting at 0 ash

Did anyone kill mythic remnant without massdispell and can dm me logs of the kill, my guild is doing no massdispell and I’m doing what feels like negative dmg.

[pure moth]

What's the point of not dispelling it?

[wintry mica]

i assume they just dont have enough people that can reliably stay on the platform with the mass dispell strat

[woeful meteor]

We have enough people that live it, they just think that its a 50 50 or something and dont want to reprog while we are still pretty early in the fight

And melee overall looses a lot of uptime and we dont get clean push times because of it

[deft obsidian]

I mean it’s only really 50/50 for people without a displacement ability, facing the opposite way but the likes of disengage/port etc should be np

[woeful meteor]

I know, but I’m not the person deciding what strats we run

[deft obsidian]

Fair.

Not come across any single dispel logs but as you mentioned, I’d imagine boss uptime taking a fair hit

[wintry mica]

This probably isn’t what your looking for but if you are running BS/DS, EP/Vig is obviously better for fights with less uptime like that

[woeful meteor]

We get him close to 60% and then it’s holding dps 20-30 seconds waiting for overlaps to pass

With normal uptime we could blast it to 60 before all of that easily

[deft obsidian]

That seems like an excessive hold, the overlaps can be nasty but just a matter of shatter, swirlies and pull the trigger on dispels ASAP

[dark token]

You should have both bombs parallel, 10 yards apart, mass dispel one and have the priest queue single dispel on the other other while mass dispel is casting

It will dispel both at once, with only one knockback

[deft obsidian]

You find that fairly consistent?

[dark token]

Yes that's our strat, it's like prenerf MD

[pure moth]

We assign 2 healers too dispel. No one else

[timid talon]

You can just pingpong them all too

like heroic/normal

the MD strat was needed for dps checks

you should have plenty of time now

[ivory chasm]

Do you use finisher at 4 or 5 CP

Sources are splitting 50/50

[thorny pond]

The rule is max or max-1

[ivory chasm]

And do you shiv in aoe?

[thorny pond]

Yep

Slam it on CD

[ivory chasm]

What’s the rationale

Ryfie argues that the GCD is better spent on fan of knives

[thorny pond]

That is does big dam for the duration on the target

[woeful meteor]

I would expect that aswell, but the second dispell takes forever, since healers have to top everyone of or something, which results in a pretty massive uptime loss for me (missed a few shadowsteps early and decided to play it save after that and just wait for the second)

[thorny pond]

I looked
It’s hard to find a ping pong only strat on mythic anymore

[proud yacht]

Is it worth using shiv at full cp and wasting the extra cp to buff the envenom or should I wait for the next finisher? Guides seem to say to use shiv on cd but also say to try to never overcap cp.

[obtuse robin]

yes send shiv even at full cp

[proud yacht]

Ok thanks. I’ve been doing that but cringe a little at the feeling of wasting cp

[pale plank]

shiv on CD

always

[tiny dagger]

Shiv on CD regardless of how many CP you have? or try to get max then pop?

[obtuse robin]

send it regardless

[tiny dagger]

That's braindead

Lol

[obtuse robin]

?

lol

[tiny dagger]

I have been waiting for cb

to send

like 4/5

[halcyon grail]

I'ma send it at 0 energy.

[obtuse robin]

u use shiv on cd no matter what

[halcyon grail]

https://c.tenor.com/kqi8vJhT8PoAAAAM/larry-enticer.gif

[obtuse robin]

full cp

no energy

doesnt matter

send it

UNLESS

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

[obtuse robin]

lol

if theres like 2 sec left on shiv or something hold vanish ets for it

otherwise

[onyx fable]

Does refreshing CT bleed have priority over applying rupture/garrote during AoE situations?

[obtuse robin]

full send off

[thorny pond]

Just full send everything, all the time

everything is prio = 1

[onyx fable]

Sorry for the noob question but "full send off"?

[obtuse robin]

on cd

[onyx fable]

I see. If I have a mob targeted has no bleeds and CT bleeds are gone, is it better to garrote/rupture or pop a CT or is the difference negligible.

[obtuse robin]

1 mob? u use garr rupture bro

[onyx fable]

lets say 8 mobs and half have rupture and/or garrote applied and I'm now targeting one without any bleeds and CT bleeds are down.

[obtuse robin]

ct

[onyx fable]

ty

[idle star]

Bleed and snd, all times

Forever

[quasi venture]

That delta hit hard huh?

Its a preferance after all whisp

[exotic hare]

anyone having success runnin assasin in m+?

[limber lion]

Yes

[exotic hare]

what level keys u runnin if i may ask

[limber lion]

Well, I don't personally push for score, so I only do like 15-18's for weeklies.

[exotic hare]

i just checked your raider.io

[idle star]

I just want frost rank 5 already. Bleh... rank 3 is poop. 12k non crit wind procs

[limber lion]

But there's plenty of people playing assassination in keys.

[exotic hare]

your gear is insane

[limber lion]

:)

[idle star]

Raiding 5 nights a week will do that

Try getting good gear when you can only do half of heroic, no mythic and only a couple m+ a week lolol

[exotic hare]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Hitstiq my char is trash geared man

lol

[idle star]

And yet again, last night my 15 is ruined cos the tank was an arrogent PoS and left after we asked him why he was pulling the way he eas without communicating...

[hoary holly]

Is necro better than venthyr for M+?

[pale plank]

I feel like on this tier it’s more about RNG more than anything

[bronze fiber]

I got the normal dagger put it in my offhand tbh it's not as good as I thought

[obtuse robin]

it becomes better with gear + frost + bs/ds

[exotic hare]

very true

[obtuse robin]

if u mean shards and stuff yea

if u mean sod i feel the oppsite

so many stop dps to push

so many intermissions

[ionic vault]

dumb question but during your shiv window, if you didnt time it well and end up having garrote or rupture drop, do you prioritize envenom till shivs buff is over or refresh bleed?

also, is it ok to overcap on CP to pop shiv or even refresh garrote before a shiv buff?

[true abyss]

Which conduit is best to select for Necro? Emeni?

[balmy condor]

refresh the bleed

[balmy condor]

fine to overcap, refreshing garrote out of pandemic is a no

[ionic vault]

thanks

[balmy condor]

would have to sim yourself between sf,lp and wps

[umbral sandal]

Yo, is sylvanas daggers best for sub?

[limber lion]

Yes.

[umbral sandal]

Why's that

[drifting cloud]

does big dam

[umbral sandal]

[soft shale]

for sub and sin

although sin does not have super cps to feed it to off hand

so the dps increase there is lower but still really solid

[cyan dew]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[austere gorge]

which soulbind is better up to this date?
Nadjia or THeo ?

[limber lion]

Nadjia for assassination.

At max ranks that is.

[soft shale]

yea fatal flaw is really good for assa

[agile geode]

Mnemonic equipment

[obtuse robin]

theo > nadja in prog with frost

[agile geode]

First Time i saw dmg from mnemonic i thought It was bugged

But when i've discover It was not my face was like

Nice last trait

Lmao

[hollow talon]

has anyone done mythic with frost set

how is it?

[obtuse robin]

its so good im gonna log on 2marow and gain 500 dps just from talking to an npc

[hollow talon]

nice

[drowsy parcel]

its pretty great

[hollow talon]

i can get my rank 4 tomorrow but i gotta do the weekly and some heroic

kinda wish i never spent 150 embers for rank 4 unholy now but it is what it is

[umbral sandal]

same

[drowsy parcel]

unholy always procs at the shittiest of times while frost is just steady damage

[hollow talon]

i can make a rank 6 cloak tomorrow too

[drowsy parcel]

and the best part is the defensive part, just a casual 20k absorb on yourself every now and then

[umbral sandal]

How much embers do I need to upgrade all 3 shard to rank 4?

is it 150?

[hollow talon]

ya

5 + 15 + 30 for 1 to 4

[umbral sandal]

Cool

[hollow talon]

so 50 * 3 = 150

[umbral sandal]

Should be able to get that in 2 weeks then

[hollow talon]

you can get about 50 embers a week

if you full clear heroic and do some mythic

[umbral sandal]

Nice, 2 weeks it is then for me

[obtuse robin]

u can get 50 w/o mythic

40 from heroic and 10 from weekly

[umbral sandal]

I guess you are playing the dashing legendary too

[hollow talon]

seeing very few top parses with dashing scoundrel, is it just cause no one's made it yet

@obtuse robin how do you get 40 from heroic

isnt it 3 from each boss and then 5 from the trash mobs?

[drifting cloud]

its 10 from trash mobs

[obtuse robin]

2 each from elites

[hollow talon]

oh ic

[obtuse robin]

well ur prolly do mythic terra sinse its easier then heroic sylv

[hollow talon]

we're working on painsmith rn but i wanted to get as much embers as possible before raid to get rank 4

[obtuse robin]

painsmith just got huge nerfs mythic

[hollow talon]

ye i saw that

and im playing sub on that fight so i guess the embers dont really matter

[idle star]

trying to sim my unholy set against my assassin frost set and i cant seem to make it work right

[hollow talon]

or maybe i just go dashing frost for painsmith

[obtuse robin]

frost and prog = pog

[idle star]

i really need rank 4 frost set

to make assass work

[hollow talon]

if you clear normal do you still get 2 embers per special trash mob?

or is that only for heroic

[obtuse robin]

no

1

[hollow talon]

ok ty i think i should still have enough before raid tomorrow

[split grail]

Quick question: Should I use Salvaged Fusion Amplifier on cd or save it for vendetta burns? It will only line up a once or twice per fight if I use it on cd

[split grail]

Right, but I figured with energy regen I could attack more and make better use of the trinket. But I'll follow your say-so

[balmy condor]

it's all ppm

casting more doesn't inherently mean more ticks of the trinket

[split grail]

ty

[austere gorge]

is it theotar now the new BIS soulbind?

[obtuse robin]

idk ask in sub

[slow marsh]

well that's sub so yeah what he said ^^

[balmy condor]

doesn't really matter

nadjia and theo both really close

just pick one

[obtuse robin]

forgot whispyr is a sub main now

[balmy condor]

only reason I wasn't a sub main was because it was unplayable

people keep thinking im a sin otp

but I like

have only played sin when sub was bad

[slow marsh]

its ok i dont judge you

[split grail]

I prefer a simple rotation and complicated boss mechanics

[obtuse robin]

[slow marsh]

i would 2nd spec sub this tier too but i'd rather just have the same gear set for both specs so outlaw it is

[cobalt pelican]

huh

[slow marsh]

sub wants crit vers/mastery no?

[obtuse robin]

and diff shards

[limber lion]

Like

I'm more of a sin otp than Whispyr

[slow marsh]

yes

[idle star]

how can i sim rank 3 shards with rank 4? i select the rank 4 ones and pit them against rank 3 but it doesnt show at all on the top gear sim when its ready

[obtuse robin]

prolly cuz its to many and hiding them cuz they r to similar

[balmy condor]

I don't get what i means that it's not showing

[idle star]

im simming 8.5k with rank 3 Frost set but i just know it would be more with rank 4

[dark token]

Probably cause u didn't select "replacing exiting gems/enchants"

So it didn't replace

[idle star]

ohhh there is a button