assassination

[forest delta]

i've got like 22%

[thorny pond]

best I can do is 3.5%

[tacit wedge]

played sin with 9% haste

"damn this gameplay is fast"

[junior vale]

guys what should i play necro or venthyr

or doesnt matter

[tacit wedge]

doesnt matter

[thorny pond]

whatever you enjoy more

[tacit wedge]

be chad, play skelly boys

[sonic schooner]

just dumb question, does sepsis proc gives u an empowered garrot?

[grim jay]

no

[slender berry]

no

[sonic schooner]

dammit sepsis really useless uh

[silent fossil]

https://i.imgur.com/l4NZg3A.png

[strange silo]

Can we craft doomblade on cloak at release or first in hc week?

[south belfry]

release

[strange silo]

now the bad question is it worth to craft it then or should we wait till hc tuning?

[grim jay]

you dont need it until you get your dom piece anyways

tho crafting rank 4, gold aside, isnt a huge problem

[silent fossil]

u wont have dom sockets week 1 anyway so no reason to re-craft unless u dont have it already. also wait until tuning if youre on the fence about covenant swap to venth since obedience would be better anyway

[white kettle]

People say that yet I destroy people in dps and dmg overall that play meta classes. It's perfectly fine, even in high keys you definitely can pull weight.

[sick scarab]

just buy leggo's base asap before prices spike up

[fallen arch]

Same

[strange silo]

i already bought it yea and i guess i need the 235 lego i just have 190 zoldyck pants atm had a big break xd and i dont think ill swap cov my venthyr is renown 0 and i dont wanna grind renown just did necro renown a week ago

[severe sparrow]

they already spiked hard on my server so gl

[strange silo]

even if i was to swap obedience is on cloak too right?

[silent fossil]

yes

[limber lion]

Always wait.

[wet sequoia]

Hey guys, would there be a reason to wait switching from NF to Venthyr or should I start farming renown asap?

[silent fossil]

should look to switch off NF to anything else

[gusty mirage]

NF was left in the dust in 9.1 so I’d switch ASAP and start farming renown. There isn’t much else to do until the raid opens and season 2 begins

[grim jay]

considering its NF you are coming from, you should prolly switch to either necro or venth 😄

you should get to 40 or atleast close to 40 if you really try in a couple of days

[wet sequoia]

Ye I really don't like Outlaw so I'm going with the vampires. Just wasn't sure if there would be a benefit to wait before the switch.

[calm dome]

I heard farming renown will be easier at 9.1 ? Dont know how tho

[gusty mirage]

The 1-40 catch up is easier in 9.1, renown becomes “more likely to drop” iirc

[grim jay]

there would be a benefit if you your current covenant was one of the close choices, but because that isnt the case.. 😄

if you wanna be up to standard as soon as possible you should already start grinding back the renown

even if it gets easier in 9.1

[wet sequoia]

Yeah will do, thanks everyone :)

[south prawn]

guys can any1 let me know why am I doing more dmg assa in m+ than outlaw 😮

when im much more familiar with the outlaw rotation

[willow eagle]

Because sin is barely behind outlaw in terms of dps output

Especially on fortified weeks

[south prawn]

the ST is sexy too

[silent fossil]

doom blade isn't even that good for 2t

in the event obedience isnt nerfed it'll be best for all target counts

[plain thistle]

if obedience is better in ST than doomblade it will be in 2 target as well, since doomblade doesnt gain value with the extra target

[south prawn]

what leggo you guys running for m+?

[cobalt pelican]

if you're exclusively talking venthyr then yes

[plain thistle]

zoldyck

[south prawn]

currious as to what people are playing

[true pelican]

necro will still be a lot better for 2t+ though

[winter glade]

Is shiv used basically used cooldown; I saw its acceptable to hold it for like 10 secs to line up with Vendetta but apart from that is it ever right to hold shiv? Should I only shiv if I can immediately follow with envenom or have energy pooled etc.?

[grim jay]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-body-slam-wrestling-slam-it-gif-16941740

on cd

[tight ginkgo]

Send it on cd and don’t fret about fitting in a certain number of envenoms

[burnt star]

i dont expect a nerf to obedience

if anything.. they should buff other leggo

this isnt 9.0

most class have leggo that have higher value then what obedience gives

[slow helm]

so obedience is taking the top spot now, what are we looking at then back or head? 😮

[sturdy merlin]

Back 👍🏻

[bitter canyon]

Is deathspike even going to be a BiS legendary for necrolords?

[south belfry]

No

Its shit now

[azure bronze]

No it got nerfed to bits

[bitter canyon]

Saw people talking earlier about it being used in m+ but the fact that it’s not a single target dps increase making it on par or worse with zoldycks

saddddddddd :((

[small steppe]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[slow helm]

@sturdy merlin cant you get free socket and a domination socket in head? in 9.1?

[grim jay]

the raid items can have dom sockets

not legendaries

[bitter canyon]

Guides don’t seem to mention anything from 9.1 yet

[sturdy merlin]

You get a free "basic" socket i think

I'm not sure tho

[azure bronze]

When you craft a legendary in 9. 1 that's in a slot where you can put a normal socket, it will be automatically crafted with a socket

[sturdy merlin]

Yes, a basic socket right ?

[thorny pond]

Yes

[azure bronze]

But since the raiding gear with domination sockets is better, you want to craft your legendary in a different slot

[thorny pond]

This

[slow helm]

btw, all the legendary items on ah atm are they gonna be trashed or vendor'd since they dont have a socket or will they get a socket when they get transformed into a legendary item?

[azure bronze]

2nd part

https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-crafted-eligible-legendaries-get-free-socket-at-runecarver-in-patch-9-1-323060

[thorny pond]

Think for rogues this really only applies to outlaw since we’re crafting most of our leggo on cloak

[polar ice]

Base items will still beused to craft up to rank 4

[slow helm]

@polar ice that was not what i asked but shyki answered it so no worries ^^

[kindred shuttle]

yo, so? everyone rerolling to venthyr now? 😄

[tacit wedge]

Is it possible that vanishing as i'm targeted by the Draw Soul from the lich boss in ToP will trigger it early?

[limber lion]

Quite a few are, but if you only want to play sin then Necrolord is just fine.

Necrolord is still the better choice in aoe.

[slow helm]

@kindred shuttle i been venthyr since kyrian and nightfae got trashed never liked necrolord xD

[kindred shuttle]

i like bonespike dont like the theme tho

i like minmaxing too so iam torn

[thorny pond]

Is cev is staying necro, high chances it is still a very very strong choice

[polar ice]

Bone spike is fun, look slike for ST & 2-3 target yor choices are venth/kyr depending what you want to offspec

[thorny pond]

There is no correct answer because there is no one size fits all for every situation

[limber lion]

2+ targets your choice is Necrolord.

[kindred shuttle]

true, i mean, necro is going to beat venthyr at the start until u can craft obedience

and m+ it will do shit

[limber lion]

But yeah, it just depends what you want to do.

[polar ice]

Better check your sims sir. Necro for aoe. 2-3 is still venth or kyr

[kindred shuttle]

dont have time to have two rogues for m+ and for raiding

[mighty bolt]

#assassination message

[thorny pond]

You’re seeing a strong push off necro because not everyone is a pure sin pony. Venth gained great value simply because sub became viable

[limber lion]

Link me a sim where Venthyr or Kyrian wins Necrolord in 2 targets.

I'll wait.

[thorny pond]

This doesn’t diminish necros value

[thorny pond]

Lol how scuffed can I make the sim?

[bitter canyon]

Zoldycks is still BiS for m+ correct?

[limber lion]

Yes

[bleak sky]

this is gonna be fun to watch

🍿

[limber lion]

That's fine

I already got the sim

[frail forge]

Isnt Sub now viable (dps wise) for M+ alongside outlaw?

[polar ice]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mrNTV72HZvmjUy4CYfvMKj

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aM6DTnFtQov41LfoM5goXt

[limber lion]

That's a dungeon slice sim

That's not 2t

or 3t

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/y82SKpPwC4XSfhHpqsE3x

This is 2t

[brisk orchid]

Also not the same spec 😄

[limber lion]

This is also a sub sim

[brisk orchid]

sub vs sin there

[limber lion]

not a sin one

[hazy crater]

[limber lion]

What the hell

He's not even comparing Necro vs Venthyr

He's literally comparing Sub vs Sin

And he said "2-3 T"

And links a dungeon slice sim

[hazy crater]

500Head

[lost mist]

Thats a combat rogue full t10 sim

[bleak sky]

imagine coming on here to tell cev he's wrong and fucking things up 1000% harder

[vast forum]

sub vs sin 2-3 T

i wonder who wins

[polar ice]

just trying to be helpful, its whats out. i see patch as st not cleave

[limber lion]

?????????

My guy

[hoary fulcrum]

Off topic. Will great vault reward the new rewards on reset/patch? Or will it reward the ilvls it does now?

[limber lion]

Is there a language barrier or something here

[brisk orchid]

same ilvl as current bud

[limber lion]

No, it's the same ilvl as in the current patch.

So 226 for 14+

[hoary fulcrum]

Thanks guys. Just making sure!

[bleak sky]

2nd week = good gear

[midnight marlin]

Does this include obedience updated sim?

Why is doomblade higher

[limber lion]

Yes

[bleak sky]

tfw have to craft 2 obediences

[plain thistle]

doomblade is better for necro

[limber lion]

Because it's necro

Obedience is a venthyr covenant legendary

[south belfry]

We wont get obedience until mythic week right?

[plain thistle]

because you cant use obedience as necro 😂

[limber lion]

Can't use Obedience as necro

[midnight marlin]

Oh I’m an idiot lol

[bleak sky]

3 weeks to get enough renown

[south belfry]

Ya so mythic week

[limber lion]

Why

[bleak sky]

crit haste for sin, crit vers for sub, no?

[limber lion]

It's not really that important

It's a cloak

It's an item with the lowest amount of secondaries

[bleak sky]

saving soul ash

[limber lion]

Back gives the same amount of secondaries as wrists

It's not really that important

Just use crit for both and either haste or vers

it's fine

[south belfry]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[midnight marlin]

So would venthyr sub be better than necro sin in m+?

[plain thistle]

[frank jetty]

perhaps

[kindred shuttle]

lets go

[frank jetty]

perhaps not

[south belfry]

Highly depends on obedience if it stays like it currently is

[cerulean nest]

you still staying necro sin @limber lion

?

[frail forge]

Venth sub is beating necro outlaw currently in Dslice so "dps wise" i'd think it'd be better than necro Sin

[limber lion]

I'll have the Venthyr quest as a back up, but currently yes, staying Necro.

[cerulean nest]

gotcha

i'm following you into battle

[digital zodiac]

which quest?

[frail forge]

The quest you pickup in oribos to switch back to the covenant you've already been on

[digital zodiac]

ahhh

[limber lion]

[candid geyser]

If my rogues never been venthyr.. it’s two weeks to swap right? So I should do first quest before reset and do second on Tuesday?

[midnight marlin]

pretty sure it's immediate if never been venthyr

[limber lion]

Like Turtleton said, it's instant.

Only the process of swapping back to a covenant you've already been once takes 2 weeks.

[cerulean nest]

had to learn that the hard way immediately switching to 0 Renown necro in the middle of prog lol

[candid geyser]

Ooof. Copy thanks. Almost oof’d right now. Glad I asked lol

[manic prism]

wait, so if i started kyrian, swapped necro, want to go venthyr, thats instant

[gusty mirage]

correct

[manic prism]

oh snap i almost goofed as well LOL

[teal bloom]

only 4 renown from 16 raid bosses 😦 17 to 21

[limber lion]

Yes, that is what a lot of us are doing lol

[vestal wren]

both necro and venthyr work

[limber lion]

No, you can't swap back to necro instantly.

[vestal wren]

thats true

but both choices are fine

[limber lion]

Ah yeh

Good to have them both leveled up and quests done so you can swap if you want.

:p

[gusty mirage]

don't tell people that, then they won't have anything to complain about

kinda like how a lot of people are butthurt that sub's good again

[vestal wren]

haha^^

i mean my aim is to inform people and let them make educated decisions

[limber lion]

I gotta say

I really like the deathly shadows opener on Venth sub with Obedience

[gusty mirage]

can't play venthyr without the cheese huh Cev

😛

[limber lion]

So it's definitely a contender in my mind.

[viscid spear]

Is the new dungeon up the 1st week?

[limber lion]

Well, if it exists, gotta abuse it :P

[limber lion]

No it is not.

It opens up the second week.

[viscid spear]

Cool, more time to work on Renown and get my rotation down

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

yeppers

we'll have a lot of time on our hands next week

farming the maw and just doing random stuff to test out stuff

[viscid spear]

Yeah, Flag hits like a truck, so much more satisfying than Sepsis

[gusty mirage]

the re-work made it so much better

before it felt and was almost a waste of a gcd

[viscid spear]

I see that,it's sweet

[gusty mirage]

some spicy crits are possible w/ lashing scars too

[viscid spear]

Got lucky with a 200ilvl Lashing drop from a cache

Huge improvement over the 145 you initially get

[analog glade]

[sonic schooner]

ok i ve decided

me staying necro

[viscid spear]

let me know how you do, fren

[pure sentinel]

what is main sin lego?

[spare flame]

So has it changed that Necro is better as soon as another target gets involved?

[hushed veldt]

hey guys, what whas the site i could check the pinned statistics? i can't remember it

[somber breach]

If Obedience nerfs come out, when is the time of highest probability for this to happen? I literally just swapped back to necro and have both at 40, going to start the quest next week for venthy swap back and hold onto turning it in the week after. ~500 seems fairly significant

[limber lion]

Doomblade for raiding, Zoldyck for M+. Might be changing in 9.1

[limber lion]

During Heroic week

If it doesn't happen during heroic week, it's not happening in a month

[azure bronze]

Or after World progress

[limber lion]

It's either before the mythic raid comes out

or after a month or so of progress.

Like after HoF has closed.

[vale marten]

i could be wrong but dont you need to be venthyr on wed so you can get obidience on mythic week?

[limber lion]

They might nerf things that are crazy and out of proportion

[vale marten]

since its renown dependent

[limber lion]

but Obedience and Sub isn't really.

[limber lion]

Well yes, but there is catchup in place so you can still get there even if you change later.

[vale marten]

so catch up starts so early?

thought it would take a while

[somber breach]

I thought catchup has always been like that.

[limber lion]

It has always been like that.

[misty holly]

What buffs did Sub get that has it simming higher now? They are pretty far behind in 9.0.5

[limber lion]

There is a limit to what renown you can get up to

But that's it.

[limber lion]

A lot of stuff.

Most of it is in the patch notes.

[misty holly]

I saw backstab buff and the aoe buff

[limber lion]

Yeah and Shadow Techniques, that's the big one

[misty holly]

but for single target I dont remember anything

[limber lion]

Introduction of Obedience is massive

Obedience is a new legendary in 9.1

[pure moth]

13,165 sim for necro doomblade and venthyr doomblade were the same? Weird

[abstract arch]

is it safe to craft doomblade on back as of now or still wait ?

[limber lion]

You can't.

The new slot is available in 9.1

But you should still wait.

[abstract arch]

oh ty

[limber lion]

No need to rush it, especially if you already have the legendary on another slot.

[misty holly]

The only reasons I can think someone would want to recraft a rank 4 now is #1 they don't plan to make a rank 5 for a long time, or #2 they have multiple rank 5s to craft asap and some will have to wait for a long time

so they need the rank 4 in the meantime

[paper cairn]

I mean cloaks only cost 7k at rank 4

figured why not

[azure bronze]

Then you are on a cheap server

Here on eu draenor they are around 18k

[grim jay]

considering 18k still isnt something big... 😄

there are servers with higher prices

[paper cairn]

they went up to 9k, beat the rush on em, but yeah no reason to buy unless you got money to burn

[pure sentinel]

illidan is the cheapest server

chad server

[mortal quiver]

Last I looked on my server they were like 30 k

[rustic thunder]

same

[quaint carbon]

[gusty mirage]

Check daily, I got fleeced for 23k on a cloak then 2 days later it was 80k, now they're sitting at 9k

[mortal quiver]

Ya last I looked was like day before yesterday. I didn't have a chance to look yesterday wife had me busy all day lol.

[pure sentinel]

so i shouldn’t buy the legendaries rn right?

[rustic thunder]

i wanted to flip a cloak so i bought one for 35k and was sure the price would go up

[cyan kite]

dumb question but do we use Crimson Tempest in the rotation on single target pulls? (assuming it's talented due to other reasons)

[mortal quiver]

I'm still torn on going back to Venth or staying necro. I like both play styles so it doesn't really matter to me. And I rotate through all 3 specs just to have fun and depending on what I'm doing.

[somber dove]

from my understanding we do as long as were not in a shiv window

[gusty mirage]

You can, if you don't it's not that big of a loss. But if you want to use it you just keep up the dot outside of shiv windows

[cyan kite]

👍 thanks boys

[south prawn]

any dungeons were outlaw is just much better than assa? I feel like theater of pain is one of them but can't think of other dungs?

[mortal quiver]

does the bleed from crimson tempest count as a bleed for doomblade increasae

[limber lion]

Outlaw wins in most dungeons.

Assassination is the underdog.

[limber lion]

Yes it does.

[gusty mirage]

Theater is one of Assassination's best dungeons because of the generally smaller pull sizes

[lone wren]

Assassination from a pure DPS perspective is actually really good and valid in high keys. Outlaw's CC is what makes them more appealing. MDI is 18/17. If you are pushing 20+ keys where survivability and kiting and avoiding damage is important. Assassination can be very good. Usually pulls in higher keys aren't as big as MDI style pulls in 17/18s either.

[cobalt hemlock]

if you complete the first quest to switch covenant and then week later turn it in because you decided to switch do you have to wait week to get second one or i didnt understand it from the text before

[limber lion]

Yes

You need to complete it this week and return it this week

to get the second part of the quest next week

[cobalt hemlock]

so its not like a weekly thing that if you do it before it weekly reset you get it imidiately when weekly stuff resets

[limber lion]

Yes it is

If you do the first part on tuesday, you can pick up the second part on Wednesday

If you do the first part on a Thursday, you'll have to wait almost a week for the reset.

[cobalt hemlock]

ah thanks

[swift sigil]

Just switched Venth. When do I use Flag in my rotation?

[cobalt hemlock]

at start with vendeta to get as much combo points into it as possible i think (correct me if im wrong)

[lost mist]

After vendetta, before rupture

[ruby birch]

^ That for opener and fights where you wont get an extra cast of flag

Otherwise flag on CD with full CP (or 1 - full CP)

[lost mist]

Flag on CD or every 2 min with vendetta if u won't miss a cast

[teal bloom]

I am currently 24 venthyr renown and i have done first quest to switch back to necrolord. This is so much work but I don't want to grind renown from 0 after patch hits if obedience doesn't get nerfed lol

[gloomy knoll]

why would it get nerfed

i hate rogues so much man

gets a halfway decent legendary

aye yo nerf this shit i wanna be unwanted and a meme

[lost mist]

Venth rogues with obedience shouldn't be beating venthyr boomkins nor spriest so is unfair that they nerf us

[gloomy knoll]

we're not

spriest is still ahead of us

rogue is still diet spriest

[lost mist]

"shouldn't be beating"

Should not

NOT

[gloomy knoll]

we aren't

and won't be

[cobalt pelican]

very functional conversation everyone keep it up

[lost mist]

Sure we don't

[gloomy knoll]

according to preliminary sims

[lost mist]

I think im unable to speak correctly

Lol

[teal bloom]

the dagger effect isn't implemented yet but I doubt we'll be the best class even with it 😄

[lost mist]

What i said is that spriest and boomkins have more dmg than us, so thats why is unfair if they nerf us

[gloomy knoll]

we're looking competitive enough to warrant taking to raid

that's all that matters

[lost mist]

Plus we are melee

[gloomy knoll]

yes and what i said is you are correct

according to preliminary sims we are worse

just backing you up lmao

[lost mist]

Omg i hate my native language.

[silver yacht]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[woeful juniper]

dude if youre not in a top 20 guild what you play should barely matter, if you are good at playing your class and the raid.

[gloomy knoll]

unfortunately community perception of the meta affects all guilds

[lost mist]

Noooo, now is top 20?

[gloomy knoll]

even if we wouldn't like it to

[lost mist]

Next patch: dude, if youre not in top 5 guild just go meme builds

[gloomy knoll]

and who's to blame people

for trying to recruit good specs

[shy dust]

I mean

[gloomy knoll]

it literally makes their job easier

you can do sludgefist with 15 melee or with 4

ones a lot fucking easier

[shy dust]

Community perception does effect you even if you’re outside of the top 20 or whatever arbitrary number you set

In 9.0 there were some good rogues I knew that struggled to find guilds

Solely because of how bad rogue was seen

[lost mist]

Rogues were good only after hof ended lol

[shy dust]

No

[lost mist]

Just bc sin buffs

[shy dust]

Okay yeah

After 9.0.5 launched

[woeful juniper]

Rog was in a way worse spot then. Now it is not seen as a bad class at all

[shy dust]

Rogue was much worse spot

I agree rogue is much better position now

But community perception affects people even outside of the cutting edge of raiders

[gloomy knoll]

shouldn't have started this argument back up my bad

[sonic schooner]

Regarding pvp. They had mage palret war dp chamenh

What did they nerf?

Rogue

[gloomy knoll]

i just get so triggered when I see rogues talking about nerfs lol

like just fucking be happy

we finally get something

[ruby birch]

Rogue is targeted because of community perception

[gloomy knoll]

halfway decent

[cobalt pelican]

tbh the people who say

[ruby birch]

Blizzard doesn't balance to please the top 1% of players

[lost mist]

Now we are in the position that we deserve as a 3 dps spec class, its no sense that classes that have a lot more of utility and can swap between roles, have better dps than us

[ruby birch]

They balance to please the general playerbase, which unfortunately hates rogues

[gloomy knoll]

i feel like the playerbase hates rogues because of pvp though

[sonic schooner]

Also why would u want obedience to be nerfed? Just ask for a buff on other things

[gloomy knoll]

cuz they get kidneyd and die

[sonic schooner]

[gloomy knoll]

[ruby birch]

Yes they do

Because rogues are noobstompers

And many people who play the game suck at PvP

[gloomy knoll]

not my fault you trinketed sap

[woeful juniper]

either way we probably wont be the best class in the tier but if your guild lead at world rank 100+ bases their roster decisions of limit and echo hes a dumbass.

[ruby birch]

It also doesn't help that we are a stealth class

[sonic schooner]

Community "rogue stealth makes it unfair"

[ruby birch]

People hate stealth classes in any game

[lost mist]

1st season no vers+trinket ppl crying about rogues bursting them down

[shy dust]

I mean

Rogue was very overtuned lol

[sonic schooner]

But they don't care about drood mage hunt

[gloomy knoll]

to an extent but also literally no...

picking good classes and specs literally makes your life as a raider easier

and increases your odds of success

yea being a total asshole about it and chasing only pure bis instead of just looking for good players is dumb

but that doesn't mean you ignore raid comp to make people feel good

[ruby birch]

Rogue wasn't overtuned in PvP, sub is just good at abusing low vers targets

[cobalt pelican]

it's literally the same thing as people saying you can do high keys as any spec while playing in a premade group all season

like ye it's true but

[ruby birch]

Perhaps the conduit was a bit overkill

[cobalt pelican]

you're not uniquely better than every other app guilds get

so it actually will impact you regardless

[sonic schooner]

Sub without mage burst would be oktier

[gloomy knoll]

i play with a blood dk and a resto druid

[sonic schooner]

And not op

[gusty mirage]

!def

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[gloomy knoll]

they do literally 0 damage

[sonic schooner]

Blame mages

[gloomy knoll]

we cap ourselves on keys we can do

because they do 0 damage

i play with them because they're good players and i like them

but do i want to do higher keys or have an easier time doing keys

yea

why should any raid leader not feel the same way

[shy dust]

Yes it was

One of the highest rated

3s teams on the ladder was triple rogue

Rogue was very overtuned in PvP

[ruby birch]

Rae

[shy dust]

Doesn’t mean that other things weren’t also overtuned

[woeful juniper]

we probalby should stop here this is kinda getting out of hand and were in the wrong channel for this ^^.

[ruby birch]

People in the early season literally did not even know how MA worked

[sonic schooner]

Let's not talk about triple boomie this season

[ruby birch]

And the amount of non pvpers that were pushing making shit a joke this season

Is unreal

[final star]

!oils

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[final star]

!oil

[gloomy knoll]

sin rogue pvp next season

[ruby birch]

Triple rogue wasn't the only abuser this season

[gloomy knoll]

gonna be fun

[ruby birch]

People just like to point it out for some reason

[gloomy knoll]

all the anti heals

[cobalt pelican]

very early on er was hitting for like 10k lol

before rotten memes

[shy dust]

Sub rogue being OP

Doesn’t mean other things weren’t also OP

[ruby birch]

OP is relative

[shy dust]

Why people take this stance is besides me

Rogue was very overtuned

ER was insane

[ruby birch]

How is sub OP if more than half the classes fit that category

It was just cheap shot mixed with MA

[sonic schooner]

Echoing hitting for 60%hp

[gloomy knoll]

because it was op

other classes also being op

doesn't make the category suddenly

not op

what

cmon bro just stop

[ruby birch]

OP is relative but okay

[gloomy knoll]

could literally global people

in .03 seconds

[ruby birch]

Rets could global people

Fire mage could global people

[gloomy knoll]

from stealth

[ruby birch]

Boomkin could global people

[gloomy knoll]

there's a big fucking difference

[lost mist]

So who want some cookies??

[gloomy knoll]

you literally just arguing in bad faith at this point

i'm out

[shy dust]

You didn’t even Need MA

When you could force crits on ER

Early into the season ER was insanely overtuned

[lost mist]

🧑‍🍳 🍪

[ruby birch]

I said earlier

[sonic schooner]

https://youtu.be/dvVqKGpVfto

[ruby birch]

The conduit shouldn't even have worked in pvp

[sonic schooner]

[shy dust]

Who cares

It did

I’m not talking about ifs or not

[ruby birch]

But you guys sitting here pretending like sub was some sort of god given OP

When the entire meta was 1 shots

[shy dust]

It did and it was overtuned

[gloomy knoll]

YOU COULD LITERALLY 1 SHOT PEOPLE FROM STEALTH

there is no reactions

to that

no matter how good of a player you are

[ruby birch]

PALA CAN ONE SHOT YOU AND YOU CANT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT EARLY SEASON

[gloomy knoll]

you cannot fucking do anything

there's a big fucking difference

between a paladin running at you in wings

[gusty mirage]

I love this video so much

[ruby birch]

Did you even attempt climbing early season 1????

[gloomy knoll]

and you dying instantly when you can't even see the enemy

[sonic schooner]

Yea oxi

XD

[gloomy knoll]

and if you can't see that you actually just dumb

[shy dust]

Yes I did

Ret wasn’t as bad as ER rogue

[ruby birch]

It was literally all paladins and warriors

[gloomy knoll]

you legit just dumb

[shy dust]

Not the pre nerf

[gloomy knoll]

if you think they the same

[shy dust]

It was a massive amount of ER rogue

[harsh anchor]

How do you anticipate a 1 shot before it happens. It happens and you’re dead.

[gloomy knoll]

and usually i'm not one for insults but

yea

....

[ruby birch]

Are you on EU Rae

[gloomy knoll]

there's a massive fucking difference

[ruby birch]

Cuz I have no clue how EU was

[shy dust]

I was NA

I played lots of games to start the season

Kyrian rogue was very overtuned

[ruby birch]

NA was dominated by ER rogues for a VERY short period of time

[gloomy knoll]

at the beginning of the season

before ER nerf

[shy dust]

Yes until it was deservedly nerfed

[gloomy knoll]

rogue was the most broken spec in pvp

you literally could not do a single thing to stop them

[sonic schooner]

Definitely was

[ruby birch]

Okay so we're talking about pre-any gear

[gloomy knoll]

[ruby birch]

Back when you'd run drest

In pvp

In SL season 1

[shy dust]

Dps Vers scales harder

Than defensive

[ruby birch]

Yes

[shy dust]

So sub would have still 1 shot

Correct

Given ER would have been hitting harder

[ruby birch]

If release ER was in the game rn?

Honestly, I do not know if it would be one shotting

[shy dust]

ER would be clapping

With 226 reverb 30% Vers gear

[gloomy knoll]

er hittin for 20-30k

kek

[shy dust]

On top of the fact you can freely force crits on one of your hardest hitting spells

[ruby birch]

Eh, I don't think it would hit for 30k

[sonic schooner]

Yea it was basically 60-80% max hp from only er

[rigid pine]

Well add that to shadowblades damage and unnerfed cold blood + more ns damage

Those were nerfed too

[shy dust]

^

Deservedly nerfed

I pushed the early season as a night Fae rogue

[sonic schooner]

Yea we needed a nerf

[shy dust]

Would have been much easier if I could just hit someone for half their hp with ER

[sonic schooner]

But we also needed adjustment

[limber lion]

Can you take your PVP Sub arguments away from #assassination

[rigid pine]

Also very funny

[limber lion]

Thank you.

[shy dust]

Beta CF

[limber lion]

:)

[shy dust]

Shutting down off topic conversations

Sub PvP relevancy is very related to assa PvE

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[indigo ginkgo]

sso any more news from yesterday to now ? any relevant update

[limber lion]

No

[scarlet sequoia]

apparently night fae is the best now @indigo ginkgo

[neon cloak]

[indigo ginkgo]

seeing the pins now, and seeing that obidience got buffed ?

[gusty mirage]

didn't get buffed

[limber lion]

They fixed it

Very cool

[gusty mirage]

the sims were adjusted to reflect the fix and there was optimization done by whispyr

[indigo ginkgo]

nice the diference betwin spesc aint so ++ now

just have to stopm necro campaing and then switch back to my vap friends

stomp *

[limber lion]

Actually the gap is larger now because Obedience was already one of the highest simming legendaries for sub.

And it gaining buffs inflates that even further.

[indigo ginkgo]

[limber lion]

Or rather, them fixing the vers.

[indigo ginkgo]

they should jsut remove this 1 weeak penalti to switch back covent

[ruby birch]

No

How else will you pay more subscription time

[viscid spear]

why everyone do angry

[ruby birch]

Get time-gated on useless dogshit borrowed power that is vital to your gameplay and experience, sucker

[azure bronze]

They should just add the 4 covenant abilities as new talents and have the covenants just be purely cosmetic

[chilly path]

getting into pvp with sin. do you use wound poison or deadly poison in arenas?

[shy dust]

Who knows

Just gotta wait and see

[ruby birch]

Wound

[shy dust]

Each spec could have uses on a boss

[scarlet sequoia]

dont forget if u go sub u have to be able to play the spec

usually looks a lot worse than it sims

[ruby birch]

Sin is generally going to be a better pick for progress if the DPS is close

So depends how comfortable you are with sub

[chilly path]

if you prioritize haste/vers instead of haste/crit for PvE, does it make a noticable difference in DPS?

[gloomy knoll]

the better spec for a fight is the better spec for a fight

you sucking doesn't change that

[scarlet sequoia]

it might

[ruby birch]

It does change that

[indigo ginkgo]

well if i am not enjoying the sistem an can also stop playing and dont give them anymore money, and go play other thing

[gloomy knoll]

for you maybe

not for the spec

the spec is still better

u just bad

[ruby birch]

???

So if someone is bad at sub but good at sin

[gloomy knoll]

but sub is bis for a fight

[ruby birch]

They should go sub cuz its better for the fight?

[gloomy knoll]

yes sub is still bis for the fight

[ruby birch]

Okay

[gloomy knoll]

not saying they should play it

[ruby birch]

That doesn't change the fact that they'd be more likely to progress playing sin

[gloomy knoll]

but them sucking doesn't change the fact that sin is bis in cleave

[ruby birch]

Than they would be trying to learn sub

[gloomy knoll]

the same way if they sucked at sin

[ruby birch]

Okay

Listen

This is irrelevant

[umbral rapids]

[gloomy knoll]

yea

it was a joke

hence the

[royal lantern]

if you dont wanna be ussules, you would play litearly every single other class that is no rogue

[umbral rapids]

the best for a fight is the best class for a fight

[sonic schooner]

What if we play every single spec of rogue and only that?

D:

[ruby birch]

So, sin and sub?

[sonic schooner]

I was waiting for that one

[ruby birch]

yellow names

[teal bloom]

el goblino

[tulip nacelle]

[royal lantern]

man, why do all the sub bigbrains think they can come out of their cave now

go back to #subtlety

[umbral rapids]

LOL

[vapid nimbus]

Whats the best way sim all my dungeon gear on my bag at 220 without having to enter them manually in gear compare? Sadly top gear keeps them at the current level, and I haven't figure out a way to modify the the ilvl on the text. Or a way to select select certain items from droptimizer rather than all of them.

[royal lantern]

i wanna make memes again

[gloomy knoll]

do a dungeon droptimizer at 220

look for the ones you have

on the list it gives you

[thorn nova]

Do you have ideas about assa stats on 9.1 ?

[gloomy knoll]

probably the easiest way

[royal lantern]

agility haste crit mastery and vers seem to be good

[gusty mirage]

Just use top gear

[vapid nimbus]

Bummer, Thats what I'm doing but Dungeon Slice takes sooooo long 😄

[gusty mirage]

Much easier than chasing secondaries, more accurate as well

[gloomy knoll]

yep das how sims be

[ruby birch]

big words for someone within gloomblade distance

[gloomy knoll]

can always become a member

is only like 5$ a month

i think

and you don't gotta wait for sims

*wait in queue

[vapid nimbus]

I'm a member,

[gloomy knoll]

ah so the sim itself is just big

[vapid nimbus]

Dungeon Slice just takes forever

[gloomy knoll]

yea it do be like that also

lol

[vapid nimbus]

I wish I could just raise everything to 220 on top gear u.u

Also, after I pick one piece of gear to upgrade and equip, I should re sim for the next best piece right?

[safe barn]

ok

[vapid nimbus]

From Droptimizer

[safe barn]

who made whispyr angry

i wanna know NOW

[gusty mirage]

you can, if you take the incput and put ,ilevel=220 for the items you want to test at 220

[sonic schooner]

We should get some stamina aswell

[gusty mirage]

?

[safe barn]

that last pin

[gusty mirage]

oh that's because people don't know how to stop speculating/bitching about obedience and sub being strong

if I hear one more "sub suffers more from downtime" argument I might actually mute the entire server until mythic week

lol

[vapid nimbus]

I tried that
"# Vicious Surge Faceguard (220)

head=,id=180106,bonus_id=7255/7359/6652/7193/1514/6646"

But the graphical interface still shows it as item lvl 200. Would it still sim at 220?

[safe barn]

how many times do we have to say that if you choose to stay at sin you'll be fine?

[sonic schooner]

Outlaw suffers from downtime

[safe barn]

but you know oxi............................. sub suffers more from downtime

[frail forge]

^

.>

[safe barn]

[limber lion]

That's not right

Everything after the # is a comment, meaning that it's not taken into account in the sim.

[hollow oasis]

Then there is me, happy about being able to switch from sub and sin without needing 2 different cov or leggos

[gusty mirage]

You'd have to set it for the slot you have equipped, not the stuff in your bags

[limber lion]

It would be
head=,id=180106,bonus_id=7255/7359/6652/7193/1514/6646,ilevel=220

[gusty mirage]

but

if you do change it on that part

it will reflect the change in topgear

because topgear uses that part to pull additional items

[ruby birch]

but my dance charges

[gusty mirage]

for example:

# neck=,id=180115,bonus_id=7359/6652/7193/7387/1534/6646,ilevel=226```
would force my 220 neck to 226 in topgear

[vapid nimbus]

THANKS GUYS!!!

[limber lion]

It would not work outside of Top Gear though, in case you're simming for advanced stuff.

[gusty mirage]

^ yeah that's super important to note

if you change something in the "gear in bags" portion the advanced sim will just ignore it

[vapid nimbus]

I appreciate the info 😊

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

Having a 220 neck....

The best neck i got all patch was 207 from the world boss

In like the 2nd week

[safe barn]

dude we had valor for a long time now

[gusty mirage]

valor upgrade from KSM

[oak sky]

I didnt get any dungeon onea either

[limber lion]

Imagine not having a 226 Azure Venom Choker

[oak sky]

Probably didnt play enough m+

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

I wasnt doing 10 every week or anything ig

[vapid nimbus]

I just hit KSM yesterday, so I'm ready to upgrade. All the valor is resetting Tuesday right?

[limber lion]

Yes

[vapid nimbus]

Cool, Lets spend it all!

[ruby birch]

yeah? well imagine not having 226 weapons

[gusty mirage]

I've done a grand total of 50 DoS's on my rogue haven't seen iqd drop once on my rogue

my vdh has 3

[oak sky]

I did have 226 weapons 😀

[tulip nacelle]

I got one iqd today

[forest delta]

who has the best uptime ? outlaw or sin?

[gusty mirage]

[ruby birch]

Sub

[iron orchid]

yes

[gusty mirage]

shadowpriest

[ruby birch]

2 shadowsteps i mean you cant go wrong with that

[oak sky]

Fire mage?

[ruby birch]

Just shadowstep, gloomblade, doordash away, step, gloomblade again

Full rotation

[gusty mirage]

@ruby birch

[limber lion]

[ruby birch]

Did cev end up getting better weapons too

I still have no 226 chest

[limber lion]

I do have 226 weapons, yes.

[gusty mirage]

elusive 233s because sire's a punk bitch

[teal bloom]

I have double 223 weapons 😦

[limber lion]

But never got the 233's

[ruby birch]

All I get is some dumbass ring from some stupid updated draenei model boss

[iron orchid]

I have more 226 weapons on my fury war alt than on my main sin rogue

[gloomy knoll]

i got my 233's now

just in time for heroic next tier

[ruby birch]

[gusty mirage]

[iron orchid]

And I only have two on my warrior

[ruby birch]

My gear is so ass :(

[oak sky]

Dont worry, when you dont get weapons from heroic the 233 will feel good

[forest delta]

for real

just want to know

[ruby birch]

But I literally don't play retail, haven't touched m+ or anything really for well over a month

[gusty mirage]

I already called blizzard, they said Cev's getting a mythic sylvie dagger first kill

[oak sky]

Parse warlord inc

[teal bloom]

Cev's getting sylvanas dagger first kill and then another from vault next reset

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

[safe barn]

let's hope we all do that

[gusty mirage]

how bold of you to assume I'll ever GET to mythic sylvie

[oak sky]

You will

[limber lion]

[safe barn]

who said mythic sylvie

[gusty mirage]

I did

[south belfry]

I wonder why this macro prios mouseover over target

#showtooltip Garrote
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Garrote

If im mouseovering a target that i'm not in range, it just wont cast garrote even on my target

[tulip nacelle]

if you do have a mouseover it will always cast on mouseover

[placid adder]

is there a good way to manage the conduit energy between sin and outlaw raiding 2 nights a week

[tulip nacelle]

(a mouseover that meets those conditions)

[humble ginkgo]

does EP also increase dot dmg?

[royal lantern]

you put your stuff into different trees?

[humble ginkgo]

[placid adder]

gems seems to be the best for both

well not best

but as necro

[royal lantern]

bro

heimir for sin

eminir for outlaw

is 100%fine

[south belfry]

Can i macro it so if i have an target that my mouseover cant reach, it will cast on my target?

[placid adder]

according to OL pins heimir is better lol

for keys

[ruby birch]

No, there are no conditionals in WoW macros

[oak sky]

We love conduit energy 🙂

[royal lantern]

the difference is not something that will make or break stuff

+lead by example is BIG for a decent m+ group

[placid adder]

true thanks for input

[noble valve]

youve more uptime on lbe in a dungeon than in sims anyway

[merry fox]

you run out of energy pretty fast if you swap conduits often so emeni is safe choice

[shy dust]

Yes

[humble ginkgo]

thanks

[south belfry]

Ah so i guess ill just have to manually target other targets to garrote

Or just learn to keep track of my mouseover

[indigo thicket]

whats actually coming out the 29th just korthia?

[limber lion]

pretty much

and all the buffs/nerfs and whatnot that were mentioned in the patch notes

[viscid spear]

Like the Shiv change for example

[oak sky]

Torgy

[wise socket]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[gusty mirage]

@thorny pond its learning time

[sonic spire]

If you’re running MA usually gems can fall off a bit too making it even more okay to run emini for outlaw

[pliant nest]

is it worth dotting the other bosses on council for more energy regen?

[gusty mirage]

Yes

Ideal amount of bleeds for ST is ~5

[pliant nest]

all 3 of them?

ah ok thanks

[gusty mirage]

but you can stick to 4 if its more comfortable/easier for you

[teal bluff]

what does it mean that ideal amount of bleeds for ST is 5? Don't we only have garrote and rupture? This is a really dumb question but I'm just wondering

[gusty mirage]

You'd spread out the garrotes (if it won't fall off the priority target) and ruptures in cleave

[tulip nacelle]

energy saturation for single target

[teal bluff]

oh ok got it so 5 bleeds between all 3 of the council bosses

[gusty mirage]

yeppers

[limber lion]

Just put garrotes/ruptures up on one extra target

Not worth it on all 3

[gusty mirage]

the gain from 4 to 5 isn't worth running around like a chicken

[limber lion]

It's already very hectic trying to maintain 4 bleeds

[gusty mirage]

yeah

esp on stavros and his 30 yard dash

[deep solstice]

Imagine if this was wrath and you also needed to keep up Hunger for Blood.

[kindred rapids]

Are there are some forms of conditionals they are limited

And no flow control

In macros

[echo geyser]

in the council scenario do u guys just fok to apply poisons or do u tab target to dot then just get ur melees to apply it?

[burnt star]

its a good thing this raid is over!

[kindred rapids]

Poison falls off before bleeds

So you'll want to refresh with fok

[teal bluff]

so my raid lusts on the first pillar for sludge,is it better to save vendetta for the first pillar to use it with lust, and then use it again on the third pillar, or should i vendetta on pull, and then get 2 more uses out of it?

[winged basin]

when your guild wants to eliminate a rogue

[deep solstice]

Will depend how many total pillars you have access to I think.

[limber lion]

On mythic or heroic?

[winged basin]

when that rogue is gonna be you

[teal bluff]

mythic

[limber lion]

It's honestly fine just using cd's on first pillar, you'll have em up before the charge to the wall

[kindred rapids]

If you lust first pillar save CDs

[viscid spear]

When you're the only one in the guild that plays Rogue at max content

[limber lion]

There's a chance you won't get 3rd cd's which would be worse

[gusty mirage]

its safe to fok on 3 tar to spread poisons if I remember Cev correcting me a while back

[limber lion]

Yep ^

[kindred rapids]

Most use lust on 4th pillar though

[deep solstice]

You should try very hard to convince them to lust 4th pillar unless you are beating 4th pillar somehow.

[teal bluff]

yeah i'll have to try to convince them

[deep solstice]

It's better for literally every dps in the raid. 2 and 3 min classes line up on 4th pillar.

[west geode]

In Mythic plus ,when pulls can number higher then 5, what’s the most optimal rotation as necro? And how many target should I keep dots up ?

[limber lion]

You keep dots up on everything

Use garrote on cd, maintain CT, maintain SnD with Envenom, apply Ruptures to everything, apply SBS to everything

[lost mist]

on pull-2nd pillar- 4th pillar OR 1st pillar-3rd pillar-wall, so if they lust on 1st and the boss will smash the wall, then save vendetta for 1st pillar, if u will kill him before the charge on wall u should just burst at pull, 2nd and 4th

[kindred rapids]

Just do everything 😁

[thorny pond]

Thank you. I got a few messages lol

[kindred rapids]

So what part of flag are we supposed to be syncing vendetta with?

[teal bluff]

just hit everything on cd and maintain everything lol, its one of the faq

[kindred rapids]

With obedience

The cast or the buff?

[balmy condor]

the cast

the full thing is 24 seconds, does damage for the first 12

so you want to get the damage part into vend

[kindred rapids]

Ah ok

[deep solstice]

Assuming you always had a perfect flag though, 30% haste/vers for 4 extra seconds inside vendetta is probably worth vs 4 extra seconds of the cast I would think? 4 secs is, at best, 2 extra envenoms, usually 1.

[kindred rapids]

Yeah I could see delaying it 4 sec

[deep solstice]

you'd just flag 4 seconds before vendetta

[trim forge]

Swapping to a sin rogue for 9.1; besides pins are there any other good off discord places to start hitting up (analogous to Dreamgrove or Storm,Earth & Lava)?

[deep solstice]

delay nothing

Oh I forgot about the CD reduction part

[south oak]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[thorny pond]

Like what are you looking for? Other discord’s?

[deep solstice]

This is the rogue class discord

[trim forge]

@deep solstice thanks; I apologize for using analogous

[strange trail]

Sub or assa for raiding in 9.1?

[south oak]

The equivelent is Ravenholdt website @trim forge as far as i know

[trim forge]

@thorny pond just fishing for good places to hit up that aren’t on the beaten path. My other classes have sites and streams that are super helpful

@south oak thanks

[deep solstice]

@kindred rapids So remembering the CD reduction part exists.....the only real question would be in the extreme rare circumstance that you use enough CP that flag is up before vendetta, is it worth flagging on CD or do you hold to line it up with vendetta?

[thorny pond]

Tons of content here
Check out our streamer channel for more specifics

@balmy condor is streaming simming currently if that fancies your interest

[south oak]

There is alot of active theorycrafters on here, so remember to check out pinned messages in the relevant spec channels @trim forge

and welcome

[deep solstice]

If you scroll all the way down the pins there is an actual written rotation guide, if that is what you were asking for @trim forge

[arctic walrus]

This is where you’ll find everything you need, spec channels and a general channel. Check the pins to avoid asking overly asked questions and for some faq. Guides are posted, post in the according spec channel for any additional help or guidance

[trim forge]

It’s become apparent to me after asking “besides pins” that nothing else exist for rogues 😆

[pure sentinel]

is sin or sub playable in m+ compared to outlaw in 9.1

[deep solstice]

Sin is already comparable, and sub aoe dps is getting buffed quite a bit.

[pure sentinel]

so they will no be able to?

[deep solstice]

in 9.1 all 3 specs will be viable for m+.

[gusty mirage]

for the first time in forever all 3 specs are competitive

[ornate lake]

Can somebody explain the change to shiv to me?

[gusty mirage]

what change

[deep solstice]

shiv now soothes by default

[ornate lake]

In the notes it's mentioned

[gusty mirage]

probably just a tooltip change

[deep solstice]

numbing poison causes shiv to further slow casting speed, in addition to soothing

[limber lion]

Shiv soothes now without the need to use Numbing Poison

You can use Crippling Poison and it'll still soothe.

[ornate lake]

Cheers 🙌

[gusty mirage]

Can you soothe my undying love for you?

[deep solstice]

I hope that shiv soothing by default was not blizzard's implementation of "rogue raid utility".

[balmy condor]

probably not

[deep solstice]

"probably"

[oak sky]

Its obviously not really for raid no?

[ornate lake]

I hoped for smoke bonb utility. But I think we should have seen it implemented by now

[oak sky]

Theyre probably working on something more creative than smoke bomb dr

And thats why its taking time

[south belfry]

Honestly rogue should just give crit aura or something

[zealous marsh]

How many necro enjoyers are left here?

[oak sky]

Or maybe theyre thinking about feral, sv, etc at the same time and want to give multiple specs some raid stuff at once

[frail forge]

I thought that shiv granting a 25% cast/attack speed debuff was our utility...until it didnt work on bosses

[deep solstice]

Let's give rogue an ability that allows it to finish bosses. IE all raid bosses sit at 1hp forever unless there is a rogue in the raid to kill them.

[frail forge]

Which I still think may be a bug since numbing does

[ornate lake]

Still necro enthousiast here. But haven't kept up to date with venthyr lately, just saw Sims in pins and vent improved

[deep solstice]

I am honestly expecing to see heimir's final soulbind ability get a small buff, so not too worried about necrolord.

[zealous marsh]

i've just looked up on pins

from first glance it is just obedience being better isn't it?

[ornate lake]

Yes. Even competitive on dungeon slice

[zealous marsh]

when i've started enjoying gemstone

which is right after i rerolled to necro

[south belfry]

You are still fine playing necro dw

[deep solstice]

flag will rarely get full dslice value in a real key tho, so sim maybe not 100% comparable for real world use.

[zealous marsh]

i would be fine playing fae

we talk about raid

coz after heroic nerf hammers will start to fly left and right

[deep solstice]

ya until like a month after mythic launch there will likely still be tuning hotfixes like every week

still hoping they buff deathspike slightly....tbh I'd be fine with all the covenant leggos being BiS for some form of content. Something new to play with

[deft obsidian]

Feels like the deathspike leggo needs a total rework tbh

[zealous marsh]

Deathspike lego would be nice if it would hit all targets at once

And every tick of dot had a chance of giving cp

[deep solstice]

deathspike was already very op with just 2 additional targets

with 1 it's slightly undertuned

[deft obsidian]

I mean not that necro rogue is the only class/cov with a dumpster leggo but one can hope for improvements

[azure bronze]

the NF one is worse

[deep solstice]

because sepsis sucks....they need to just redesign sepsis, again.

[deft obsidian]

Funny how it’s the first one I thought of too haha

[zealous marsh]

Kyrian one isn’t shitty too?

[deep solstice]

kyrian one is great, just buggy atm

[zealous marsh]

I don’t remember tho

[azure bronze]

No it's decent

But why ?

[gusty mirage]

[forest delta]

I just don't like that

[gusty mirage]

rogues are so weird

instead of asking for the other stuff to get buffed

we want the good stuff to get nerfed

y'all are fried

[deft obsidian]

Or just wipe out covenants being anything other than cosmetic flexing tbh 😂

[south belfry]

Who the fuck cries about his classes legendary being good

[zealous marsh]

Well tbh i personally would like to poison bomb being removed

[dark crag]

Outlaw brains, damaged by the gambling addiction

[zealous marsh]

And kingsbane being add back

Coz pb is dogshit

[deft obsidian]

Now we’re talking, CT baseline. Full bottom row rework please

[zealous marsh]

Bottom row ct is good

[vital tapir]

@gusty mirage who needs pounding?

[zealous marsh]

But fok is legion legendary

[royal lantern]

kingsbane is in the game

its called flagelation

[deft obsidian]

I mean it’s legit as fuck, but I’d rather CT baseline 😂

[deep solstice]

I don't really get why our primary aoe finisher is from a talent anyway haha. Kinda a dumb design.

[deft obsidian]

Yes sir

[limber lion]

[royal lantern]

[paper cairn]

[deep solstice]

That's like putting starfall and sunfire on the tier 50 row for boomies.

[oak sky]

Not sunfire

[pure sentinel]

tier 60 row when?

[azure bronze]

Can't have a ST spec have an AoE finisher baseline you know!

[royal lantern]

"looks at afflock"

[deep solstice]

Sunfire being their closest equivelant to poison bomb, "passive" aoe damage

[royal lantern]

yeha

[shy dust]

It’s not like multi dotting exists

[oak sky]

Ig

[royal lantern]

sssshhhhhh........

dont say that out loud

[shy dust]

CT is bonkers

Assa doesn’t need it baseline lol

[deep solstice]

multidotting is cleave though, not aoe

[royal lantern]

^

[zealous marsh]

It is

But fok talent?

[royal lantern]

the fok talent is shit and needs a rework

but its rogue

[deft obsidian]

Need vs want, the ever revolving debate 😂

[royal lantern]

so it will stay that way for 3more expacs until something happens

[oak sky]

If pb was baseline i wouldnt mind it really

[zealous marsh]

And poison bomb?

[oak sky]

Its kinda satisfying to get one

[shy dust]

Poison bomb is fine

It’s a fire and forget talent

[oak sky]

Yea

[royal lantern]

i mean, pb barely does any dmg anyway

[shy dust]

It’s also a st increase on an aoe talent row

[deep solstice]

PB used to be strong as fuck. Diff in a good parse or a bad one was getting PB procs lol.

[zealous marsh]

Pb procs and in that moment boss moves

Don’t make a difference

[royal lantern]

and nobody wants that back

legion pb was the worst shit ever