#assassination
cobalt pelican
you want lots of shaman if you like lots of zaps wtf
cobalt pelican
lots of.. mastery..
final star
gaunt tree
same for haste gear on my monk 
compact pumice
I think it's kind of crazy that Blizz really makes Mastery that bad for some classes. It seems like such an easy thing to tweak or just overhaul pretty easily
final star
Mastery should be a top 2 stat imo
compact pumice
At least mastery isn't as bad for Assa as for Outlaw
warm parcel
It would be easy if it was anyones job
gaunt tree
they did change some masteries just to fuck them up tho right?
final star
It fits their class fantasy ethos
warm parcel
But when its intern #4 looking at class balance every other month on sunday
steel geyser
I got 0 mastery for a while on my rogue this season, now the only 47 mastery I got is from sire head
warm parcel
Its hard to get good balance
gaunt tree
when was the last time assass stacked mastery?
final star
Legion
fallen arch
when was the last time assass stacked mastery?
Today < me
spice spire
Legion PB 
fallen arch
But not intentionally
final star
It was busted in Legion
limber lion
We stacked Mastery because of PB
compact pumice
It would be easy if it was anyones job
I'm beginning to think they like have one guy in charge of everything and since it's impossible to actually do that well that person just does well enough to not get shit on from his bosses
final star
Yeah and cos haste didn't increase bleed ticks
limber lion
Just attack speed
hollow escarp
warm parcel
I'm beginning to think they like have one guy in charge of everything and since ...
Id love to know in reality
warm parcel
But blizz just seems to have given up on classes the way they kept up with them in legion
fallen arch
Where you avoided it as much as possible
final star
When Kingsbane was pumping
gaunt tree
having like a shit ton of poison/bleed damage was cool but damn assass feels like a damn slug without haste
final star
Legion assassination was 
limber lion
having like a shit ton of poison/bleed damage was cool but damn assass feels lik...
Does it though?
Or is that just placebo?
steel geyser
Legion sub 
limber lion
Have you ever played assassination at 0%-10% haste and then compared it to 10-30%?
lost horizon
Shuricombo blessed
steel geyser
dfa definitely most fun spell ever
final star
35M evis
lost horizon
Sin was tolerable with corruption haste in s4
Big slap
Exsang is always fun imo too
compact pumice
Id love to know in reality
I'm kind of surprised we haven't had some major leaks in how everything is run or any problems like that. But I guess game dev is such a tight knit business that unless Blizz goes out of business soon then we won't really get the juicy info
cobalt pelican
the jump from 75% haste to like 11% was pretty rough
at least there's ALACRITY WOOO
warm parcel
Maybe there is nothing to leak
lost horizon
Is that factoring tickrate energy too?
warm parcel
They just may not value class design as highly as top of the players do
limber lion
Yeh, the drop definitely was pretty bad.
Going from 10% haste to 20% is barely noticeable though
We've had some people here complain that they think they're constantly energy starved and their haste is shit
When they had 31% haste
Which is a shit ton
final star
compact pumice
They just may not value class design as highly as top of the players do
True, they seem to put a lot value into story and things like that, but I think it affects the game the least tbh
But I think it's very sellable
warm parcel
I mean I would agree story shouldnt be prio in wow either
lost horizon
Give me 80% haste again, I wanna go back
final star
warm parcel
Cause to me any moment you are in wow you are playing your class your spec
So if that baseline isnt good
warm parcel
Anything on top of that suffers
compact pumice
Yup
warm parcel
But maybe they dont see it like that
low girder
you can make a few people write a story
compact pumice
If they can't keep up with all the specs maybe make a few classes a two spec class like DH? Or actually focus more on the current ones instead
low girder
you can't really make a few people design 36 specs
limber lion
They hardly ever think about what feels good or bad to play
low girder
so that's where we're at
limber lion
Like putting every single major damage cd on GCD
final star
cough conduit energy cough
limber lion
was the worst thing in the world
And felt like shit
"We want you to make the decision of whether or not you use Cloak of Shadows on this mechanic or Vendetta"
warm parcel
Oh I could rant for hours about class design/baseline wow combat
But I just dont think its their prio lol
limber lion
Definitely not.
compact pumice
But imagine not having pretty much perfected the way to design classes, specs and class content and then just decide to make a new class. It just accelerates all the problems related to classes so much more.
Too many variables to tweak atm I think
and when it's not the focus it's even harder to do
warm parcel
It would imo just need way more manpower
36 specs is a lot of work
With their 34 systems on top of baseline classes
compact pumice
Yeah...
final star
Cos let's face it
warm parcel
And different endgame avenues
final star
It's not the class design itself
but the interaction with the new random system number 77 that they implement for that xpac
limber lion
They should have designers and balance teams for each class.
compact pumice
But some of the things, like monks, are just bugged since release, they only fix that shit when they break something else
limber lion
They have the $$$ to hire people to make a better experience, but they probably don't value using that money on improving small stuff like that because it likely will not bring any more revenue in.
warm parcel
That screams low prio to me
final star
I mean
warm parcel
That bugs stay for so long
limber lion
What's wrong with that Kieron?
warm parcel
Well I dont think devs necessarily have to be pros at their game
limber lion
Do you need to be the r1 player to make decisions?
warm parcel
I dont think they exclude one another
limber lion
You can tell a chef that a steak is raw
compact pumice
I think they have just said, let's just not even try to balance it all since it's too many systems that interact. They just let players find out the OP combinations and then nerf them or once in a blue moon buff the combinations no one literally takes.
cobalt pelican
the fact they added clash this expansion to monk
limber lion
Even if you can't cook it yourself
final star
I can't get his raid logs
limber lion
They're not great*
limber lion
But what does that matter?
final star
I don't think he himself is the problem
I think that he is the person who allows devs to make poor design choices because he doesn't have a clue himself.
blizzard seems to have issues with things that seem good on paper
but are terrible in practice
alpine latch
The pitching coaches in Major League Baseball have almost never pitched in a MLB game
compact pumice
Well I dont think devs necessarily have to be pros at their game
Nah, with these many systems they would need to have some data-driven design pipelines or just make really advanced tools/algorithms to calculate the actual value of combinations of specs/borrowed power/gear... But I doubt they have the focus to develop things like that (keyword being advanced).
Since class balance doesn't automatically connect to a KPI of some marketing or design decision it's too hard to calculate the value of this so it probably only gets progressed on when some valued employee makes it his/her pet project and gets to carve out a few % of their work hours to implement it.
final star
Nah, with these many systems they would need to have some data-driven design pip...
They don't even need stuff like that; put it in players hands and listen to feedback
that's what ptr is meant to be, and the betas
compact pumice
They don't even need stuff like that; put it in players hands and listen to feed...
It's hard though, people will straight up drop what they're doing and pickup the newest OP shit and then they will get mad when it inevitably gets nerfed (which it should). It would be better if it was a lot more balanced from the get go
warm parcel
- They may have just swung full the other way and tried to go the route of "make so much shit it becomes hard/impossible to compute" and ignore what we would call better balance.
- Yeh I just dont think they wanna put too much money/manhours into classes
Whos saying theyre even going for proper balance
final star
they added 5% spell variance for a reason lol
warm parcel
They did want to go back into the old days a lot recently, that would also call for forgoing proper balance and let it rip wild
compact pumice
They probably have some basic spreadsheets that gets tweaked a bit whenever the playerbase finds out that something was way better than they expected in a specific combination with something else. Then they change something to remove that interaction or just value that power a bit more in the spreadsheet which makes it inaccurate for all the other combinations
final star
who is to say they don't have their own in-house version of simc
fallen arch
God I hope they do
warm parcel
Yeah its all a mystery
Thats the biggest reason rumours and wild hot takes take on in communities
We really just dont know so we make up something
alpine latch
who is to say they don't have their own in-house version of simc
I would imagine that they do
final star
you'd like to think so
compact pumice
who is to say they don't have their own in-house version of simc
Tbh, they could have, and it would be such a good tool when it comes to class balance, which leaves me thinking that they don't have it since it would prevent some of the bad stuff from happening
compact pumice
But who knows
They might have it but never really use it as well. Since it might hinder their design teams who want to be free to do what they think is cool and it might be a power struggle and since it's easier to understand coolness and design it might be a losing battle for the data-minded people...
warm parcel
I mean talking design from devs perspective for a mom:
Some, especially older blizz folks, didnt wanna go down minmax route. Jordan is very often very vocal about his ways of design on his stream and how he didnt like the way wow evolved
compact pumice
After all, companies are just filled with people
warm parcel
Also its only the 1% of 1% that really go out their way with the minmaxing
So the average player never even realises the little things we whine of
tropic ocean
maybe it's us that are missing something they aren't willing to tell us
maybe their goal is just not to greatly balance every class
final star
problem becomes that community perception is based on the top performers on warcraftlogs
tropic ocean
and they actually want to have top tier and bottom tier and just switch it around between patches
final star
so in the end they have to care about what the top 1% are doing
because it trickles down
compact pumice
Also its only the 1% of 1% that really go out their way with the minmaxing
Yes and no, it all trickles down where something that's really good becomes super popular, but not everyone knows why it became popular
warm parcel
I know it trickles down
But even that they could already account for
If they went with "we dont care, just let it be little off at the top"
Then they do their calcs on how much itll trickle down
And feel its alright
To have it better for the average person to have these cool wildly different in power things
Idno
compact pumice
I mean, it's not really a bad choice. It's probably easier as well.
final star
it's also impossible
fallen arch
When does Whispyr wake up btw
limber lion
Yeah. Perfect balance also won't bring in any extra revenue.
fallen arch
Then we know when to talk about #assassination again
limber lion
Why does that matter?
compact pumice
Yeah. Perfect balance also won't bring in any extra revenue.
I think it would, but it would be hard to prove
warm parcel
Sorry if any actual assa lurker is afraid 
compact pumice
But I wish they made it feel good for the average person too. Since some of the specs have troubles still in the flow and fundamentals of the spec
Then the numbers can still be off and everyone is slightly more happy even if playing whatever is the FOTM
limber lion
We're chillin with Weak here, as if Whispyr is some sort of Assassination overlord and as if Weak wasn't a CF himself.
compact pumice
I wish FOK was more similar to Shuriken Storm for example
warm parcel
Well it aint assa talk
compact pumice
It just sucks to get 1 CP sometimes
warm parcel
So its a fair argument
limber lion
FoK is a dogshit ability
fallen arch
FoK is a dogshit ability
why
limber lion
Anno just explained it.
compact pumice
and also I hate that Outlaw has no real CD, or the impact is so low.
limber lion
Neither do Assa honestly.
compact pumice
And I hate that Assa has no real cd for AOE
limber lion
Vendetta is non-existent when compared.
But we don't really need big boy cds
That's kind of the point of the class
warm parcel
Well, now that this is proper assa convo, maybe ven sucking in aoe is b y design too
limber lion
Doing sustain damage throughout the whole encounter
warm parcel
Yea it sucks to be in aoe as assa
final star
point of the class is sustained damage
limber lion
Yeh.
warm parcel
final star
at all times
warm parcel
truu
final star
same for warlock tbh
compact pumice
That's kind of the point of the class
Right now it is yeah. But it used to be about stuff like Blade Flurry literally doubling your DPS or Preparation being the CD to make the class OP in 1v1 or stuff like that. AR was also a lot more impactful
limber lion
Assassination is the perfect melee raid spec. Subtitle rogue is the perfect PvP spec. Outlaw is the perfect AoE/M+ spec.
compact pumice
But I get that some specs should have pros and cons, but why does some specs have major pros but very minor cons?
Like that part is whack
final star
every ptr update I scroll down to "R" in the list of changes after Priests
warm parcel
Cause they missed the mark
warm parcel
Why they refuse to bring them down? Well at least in Ions PR lawyer talk it is cause they dont want folks who invested already to feel bad
I again disagree with this philosophy but hey
And like, again comparing to legion
tropic ocean
I again disagree with this philosophy but hey
can't bite the hand that feeds you tho, seems very logical, from a company pov
final star
the problem with Ion is that you begin to believe the things he says because they make sense on paper
the dev that sloot interviewed was so out of touch it was awful
"some classes don't even have a higher item level weapon from the last 2 bosses"
"hmm, that's interesting"
warm parcel
To be fair if thats not his dep, I dont think its bad
Not every dev needs to know the game 100%
And not like what he said after is wrong either
You can balance around that
warm parcel
Why go that way? Idno
limber lion
Is it a massive oversight though?
compact pumice
Assassination is the perfect melee raid spec. Subtitle rogue is the perfect PvP ...
Assa, Sub (especially in 9.1) and Outlaw has very different AoE strengths and flavors, which is kind of a good thing, but it's so weird that like the major AOE damage ability Assa has is talented for some reason and that Sub is just TOO terrible with low target counts. Outlaw is to be honest quite fine since it's not really that good for many targets. If Assa or Sub got something that was uncapped then Outlaw might even lose the M+ status just because it's really great for 5- targets but any more than that and other classes just break the game comparatively
limber lion
It was the same thing in 8.3 as well
warm parcel
But I dont think its fair to say its somehow a failure in design flat out
final star
Yes because now they have to deal with the backlash because of just how importasnt wdps is rn
ruby birch
I don't understand why every class needs to have maxed out ilvl
warm parcel
Again, you can balance around weapon ilvl difference
final star
make high ilvl weapon > no need to balance
warm parcel
Its more work, I dont think why they would go down that patch etc etc
limber lion
More base damage for classes that don't get op weapons
ruby birch
I guess fangs of the father was a massive oversight
limber lion
Like honestly
warm parcel
But its not game over just cause ilvl diff exists
limber lion
We who do get the weapons from the last bosses
Are the ones who are fucked
Because we're FORCED to have to get them
warm parcel
Hell trinkets never were balanced for specs either
final star
so it's a lose-lose for everyone
limber lion
We need the weapon to do damage, but the other classes will be balanced around not getting them
warm parcel
But that doesnt really make the case for this as trinkets often cause huge variance :D
limber lion
They will reach their peak dps miles before we do
final star
the classes don't have a cool weapon to look forward to
and the classes who do are behind because of it
limber lion
See, that's the only thing that sucks
warm parcel
I get it its a losing battle for when not looking at dps purely
tropic ocean
don't really think its a loss if your class has max power without killing last 2 bosses on myth
but rather a gain
warm parcel
It must feel bad to miss out on higher ilvl wep
limber lion
It's not like dagger users and hunters will suddenly be the top 3 most op classes because they get weapons from the last bosses.
It's just more work for us having to grind the shit out
We'll be in the dumpster without them
willow eagle
I don't think that some classes not having higher ilvl weapons on last 2 bosses matters thag much
tropic ocean
especially on rogue having higher ilvl weapon is kinda pain
limber lion
Whilst the Boomies enjoy their life with whatever they got with Valor points
tropic ocean
cuz in best case scenario you will need 3 tokens
ruby birch
There are no tokens anymore
final star
when design aesthetic and "lore" impact balancing it's a problem
willow eagle
Because when we measured classes being good, what's more important - class being good for prog or being good for reclear?
warm parcel
Again chief
warm parcel
Youre stating as if it directly ruins balance
final star
This boss doesn't feel like it should drop a 1h agi weapon, sorry
warm parcel
Youre being disingenious
willow eagle
So yeah there's a higher ilvl dagger but it drops when prog is over
limber lion
Yeah, I'm missing the point as well
ruby birch
when design aesthetic and "lore" impact balancing it's a problem
Isn't that like the point of an MMORPG
limber lion
Balancing will happen whether or not classes get weapons from bosses.
ruby birch
Wtf is the point of the game otherwise 
compact pumice
This boss doesn't **feel** like it should drop a 1h agi weapon, sorry
It's so funny since it literally drops a 1h already from KT but it's Strength only for some stupid reason
willow eagle
I think if we compare let's say outlaw to since in terms of weapons in sanctum
willow eagle
Outlaw has a higher chance for 2 one handers just from the first few bosses
tropic ocean
and with how impactful mainstat is now off hand is actually big dps up
while it didnt matter much in bfa
willow eagle
So let's say for sylv prog outlaw has more opportunity to have better ilvl weapons
And idk I don't value class being good for parsing that much
alpine latch
She drops an Agi dagger
compact pumice
So let's say for sylv prog outlaw has more opportunity to have better ilvl weapo...
Though Heroic Sylvanas will drop the dagger a bit closer in ilevel to the early mythic bosses I guess, so if you count that then there's two daggers from the raid before M Sylvanas compared to three agi OL Weapons, though none of them are from the last two bosses so it's a bit more fair trade off tbh.
wary ice
honestly leave it to the wow playerbase to complain about specific bosses dropping items
compact pumice
Oh sure, yeah that would be swell. OR if they don't wanna fuck the lore then they could juse make the Str 1h from KT also be in an Agi version
compact pumice
honestly leave it to the wow playerbase to complain about specific bosses droppi...
It's blizzards own fault for making the last two bosses have more valuable loot.
wary ice
iunno just sounds likea buncha whining over nothing
compact pumice
Make a system uneven and not compensate and some people will notice and want it even. That's a very normal thing.
wary ice
If you want to play a game with even balanace maybe dont play a game with 9 classes and 36 specs 😬
chess is right there
compact pumice
iunno just sounds likea buncha whining over nothing
You can say that about any injustices or unfairness though. And I'm sure without feedback the game would be way worse than it is.
compact pumice
If you want to play a game with even balanace maybe dont play a game with 9 clas...
A game can be fun and well designed
wary ice
"I'm sad that [my class] doesnt have a weapon on the end boss and its not fair that [this class] does isnt feedback
compact pumice
chess is right there
Chess is a very good game that has lasted through the ages, why not take pointers from it tbh?
compact pumice
"I'm sad that [my class] doesnt have a weapon on the end boss and its not fair t...
It isn't? Of course it is feedback? Or do you just mean it isn't valuable feedback? I mean Sloot literally gave that feedback straight to a game dev in his interview.
To be honest it just sounds like you don't like to read discussions about raid loot balancing, but that doesn't make it bad to discuss but rather that you should find other things to do than to engage in that discussion.
willow eagle
Tbh I get why ppl are frustrated with the sod loot table. Castle nathria had a good balance and they threw the weapon token model after one tier
ruby birch
I really hope they make it so that specific few select classes get insane upgrades in a tier just like how it used to beee
willow eagle
Which imo was their best raid loot iteration yet
ruby birch
Make em stand out
compact pumice
Tbh I get why ppl are frustrated with the sod loot table. Castle nathria had a g...
"we don't want to do the same thing twice" just means we don't want to learn from our past experiences SMH
willow eagle
Well I'm pretty sure nyalotha and erernal palace has had the similar thing with uneven weapon distribution
odd hazel
Tbh I get why ppl are frustrated with the sod loot table. Castle nathria had a g...
the CN loot was awful.
willow eagle
But from what I heard on max's stream devs mentioned they balance around the uneven weapon distribution
Just not sure how
compact pumice
I really hope they make it so that specific few select classes get insane upgrad...
Imagine if they did that with some intent, like make a very unpopular class for the whole expansion get the best upgrade from the last tier or something. It would be such a fun thing for the people who stuck with the unpopular class and a bit of a retribution
willow eagle
the CN loot was awful.
How? I think besides adding a 226 shoulder and helmet (for leather) on earlier bosses and adding a necklace without mastery, the loot table was good
compact pumice
Hunter has Wild Spirits so they can't be poop
gusty mirage
Survival hunter being viable for one tier due to one OP ass weapon 
odd hazel
How? I think besides adding a 226 shoulder and helmet (for leather) on earlier b...
the stats on the gear were shit
gusty mirage
Tbf if any spec deserves that, it’s them
compact pumice
Survival hunter being viable for one tier due to one OP ass weapon <:OMEGAKEKW:8...
I am fine with this 
gusty mirage
Anyone sticking to survival outside of pvp is an absolute legend
royal lantern
OG survival hunters are beasts man
if survival ends up op and all bigbrains fotmroll to it
thats gonna be so sad and funny at the same time
compact pumice
the stats on the gear were shit
It was good for some classes, it was just too similar. Like all the necks in the game has loads of mastery for some incredibly stupid reason
ruby birch
Again, I know people hate the lore or whatever, but it's an RPG at the end of the day and the devs are going to treat it that way
gusty mirage
Get people going “I REMEMBER WHEN THIS SPEC WAS A MEME”
ruby birch
So like class balance won't always match what's being handed out as the cool new op item
odd hazel
It was good for some classes, it was just too similar. Like all the necks in the...
it was just full of useless gear. im basically using no raid loot. except like 3. im using a BoE drop right now, and thats it. i dont have a mythic Dreadfire, or sire shoulders.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
or weapon tokens
ruby birch
Blizz actually balances around the "handouts"
Which to me makes the game feel so much less of an RPG
But I mean whatever, not THAT big of a deal
compact pumice
Again, I know people hate the lore or whatever, but it's an RPG at the end of th...
I don't hate the lore. I just wish it was more useful. Today it's more of a hindrance when it affects design decisions. Lore doesn't have to affect design badly to be honest.
ruby birch
I don't hate the lore. I just wish it was more **useful**. Today it's more of a ...
But why is it bad design to have sylvanas only drop a bow and dagger
Why does every class and spec need to be given that special weapon
odd hazel
tbh, i wasnt even mad that hunters were the only one getting something
its sylvanas
it makes sense
compact pumice
But why is it bad design to have sylvanas only drop a bow and dagger
It's not necessarily. It's bad design because if she only drops two weapons then the decision to have her and one more boss have the highest item level is a bad design decision
ruby birch
But why?
compact pumice
Remove that and it's all good
ruby birch
Why can't some classes benefit from that
Why does it have to be that every class needs the tier to be THEIR teir
compact pumice
Because it's like 80% of the specs who benefit from that and not 1 or 2
ruby birch
Tier*
odd hazel
it just means people will flood to that class. which opens up other slots in a raid which is a good thing
compact pumice
I'm not saying the Bow necessarily, just that 80% of specs will have a weapon from either KT or Sylvanas.
I don't remember the actual number
willow eagle
it just means people will flood to that class. which opens up other slots in a r...
Highly doubt that
You can have a great weapon from sylv but your spec might be tuned really badly
odd hazel
its hunters though
willow eagle
I don't think there will be a massive switch to hunters just for the weapon
compact pumice
Legendaries have always existed and they are just fun flavor tbh. I'm more talking about the weapons from last two bosses.
alpine latch
If you had to pick a "level" of m+ that you would say is equal to CE, what would it be? Timing everything on a 18? 20?
compact pumice
In general that the only way to get a weapon of that ilevel be one of those classes. And it's not like it's necessarily a really bad decision to be honest.
The only reason it is bad is because in CN it was solved with tokens, which made it equal for everyone in that sense so it's just bad by comparison
odd hazel
If you had to pick a "level" of m+ that you would say is equal to CE, what would...
probably atleast like, 20?
ruby birch
If you had to pick a "level" of m+ that you would say is equal to CE, what would...
None, completely different types of content
alpine latch
None, completely different types of content
Duh, but there can be equivalents in terms of skill required.
compact pumice
probably atleast like, 20?
I think it would be higher. Maybe check some % of how many has CE and take a key level that corresponds to that
ruby birch
The skill is different
compact pumice
But it's a weird comparison
odd hazel
i was just throwing a level that might feel the same "difficulty"
alpine latch
Yeah, clearly there's a different skill. There's a difference in skill for a lot of things, we can still compare them.
ruby birch
It depends on each person, I know people who spam run 22s but can't mythic raid for shit
Well they can but
They kinda suck
ruby birch
Yeah, clearly there's a different skill. There's a difference in skill for a lot...
I mean I guess the way you phrased it was a bit weird then?
I'm guessing you were trying to ask "what key is as difficult for a m+ player as is CE for a mythic raider"
compact pumice
Yeah, clearly there's a different skill. There's a difference in skill for a lot...
Yeah but the most fair comparison would be the achievement % then
Could probably check how many have CE achievement and how many have completed keys above a certain % on raider.io
alpine latch
I'm guessing you were trying to ask "what key is as difficult for a m+ player as...
Yeah, phrasing has never been a strength of mine. It sounds right in my head 
limber lion
It's not really a comperative thing
You can't compare the two
They're difficult for their own reasons
It's like asking which is the more difficult game, Runescape or Pokemon Go
compact pumice
It's like asking how hard it is to get the PvP title compared to CE.
@alpine latch : It's interesting to think about if you for example end up running the highest keys in the world in The Great Push, get world first on prog and win the WF of AWC. I don't think it happens though that someone does all three, but if someone does then you could ask what they thought was harder, but it would still be from their personal PoV, however with a lot more accuracy than we who frequent this channel can say
alpine latch
I mean, one of the dudes in Limit was in every WF pull and still got to 2600 PvP rating the first week
And many of them were pushing 14s the first week m+ was open for the gear
compact pumice
Sure but WF raiding is a lot harder than 2600 PvP and 14s the first week, just due to the sheer diifference in numbers who achieve them
alpine latch
Probably true.
compact pumice
Well WF raiding is a 20 main raid getting the achieve with a lot more people working together to achieve it.
It's more comparable to winning a tournament like AWC
or an M+ one like MDI or the Great Push
But picking some arbitrary point from average to the best is impossible to say At this point they are all equal for each of the categories
But you can compare best in each category in some sense, though it's still affected by how many are competing and stuff like balance or rewards like money, so it's pretty useless to compare.
patent canopy
Hey guys! Zoldyck on pants crit/haste aye ?
amber mountain
Yes... and what do you mean by "aye"? That's suspiciously like pirate-talk... do we look like Outlaw rogues to you?
😛 in case that wasn't apparent
hoary night
Technically crit mas but haste is also good enough
thorny pond
It even says in the pins "crit/haste"
compact pumice
Technically crit mas but haste is also good enough
I think you mean that Crit/Mastery is good for pure AOE, which is usually where Zoldyck excels, though overall the stats you would need in M+ in general or on something like M Sire Prog where you would use Zoldyck is undeniably crit/haste.
dull cloak
i miss the days back in legion when haste was a dead stat
teal bloom
If you're only using zoldyck for M+, crit mastery isn't bad probably. Ryfie only has 5% haste
compact pumice
If you're only using zoldyck for M+, crit mastery isn't bad probably. Ryfie only...
What secondary stats people actually run is more determined by RNG though. we had a discussion earlier here where a rogue had highest stat Mastery since that's all the upgrades he has ever gotten from Vault.
But Ryfie might have specifically chosen his stats to be BIS for his content or it's just literally random.
On a legendary where you can't change it I would probably pick Crit / Haste since it's most useful for Assa overall tbh, and use other gear pieces to puzzle with if need be
hoary night
You're right but anyhow neither leg nor feet is heavy on secondary stats as ring or neck, so it's not gonna make a huge difference. As long as it has crit and doesn't have vers will be good imo
compact pumice
Secondaries don't matter too much on an item anyway, so you can pretty much do whatever and it will barely have an effect. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
loud trench
So just swapped necro. Does the 5 bleed max rule apply to Sbs? So for example@the start of ph2 heroic sire because im farming renown, if we sbs the two cabal, sire and have garrote/rup on sire that is it?
gusty mirage
SBS doesn’t trigger venomous wounds
loud trench
Oh ok
amber mountain
Yeah, don't count it as your bleeds
amber mountain
O.o that i didn't know
stiff geyser
I don’t know how reputable Izen Hart is on YouTube, but he’s saying assassination rogues are over performing. Wouldn’t logs suggest otherwise?
short hamlet
I don’t know how reputable Izen Hart is on YouTube, but he’s saying assassinatio...
what does that even mean, sin rogues are too good?
alpine latch
Anyone who's monitizing their opinion is probably not worth taking too seriously, IMO
short hamlet
just out of the oven, fresh baked takes
compact pumice
I don’t know how reputable Izen Hart is on YouTube, but he’s saying assassinatio...
Well depends on what you compare with but Assa rogues are really good on ST and Cleave compared to the other melee since 9.0.5
spice spire
In what context are we over performing? I mean that’s pretty subjective.
alpine latch
compact pumice
I mean the parses are in you can just check WCL
Overperforming is a bit of a... subjective stance though
stiff geyser
Yeah that’s what I thought? Didn’t see that we were blowing anything out of the water
He was saying it’s a safe pick for 9.1 because it’s “over performing” and “not getting nerfed”
spice spire
Like outperforming many classes? Over performing our sims? It’s kind of a blanket statement that needs some sort of context.
Ahh
compact pumice
He was saying it’s a safe pick for 9.1 because it’s “over performing” and “not g...
It might be a safe pick due to it being very good now and probably at least top of the melee in next raid. Next raid also looks pretty melee friendly
Is AMZ shit now? If it isn't then a DK might even be safer though, in a raid spot sense.
If Havoc is really good which it looked like on PTR then might also be a safer spec due to Darkness being buffed by comparison due to AMZ nerf.
Warriors also bring something so they might scale well enough to be safer
Problem is Rogues bring nothing so we would need to win DPS kind of
stiff geyser
Amz is shit now from what I’ve read. Don’t have any first hand knowledge or experience tho.
amber mountain
IMO the "AMZ is shit" take is an overreaction. It was straight up busted before
ornate lake
well Smokebomb was mentioned in last 2 interviews, so fingers crossed?
amber mountain
It's still pretty powerful, just now people need to be smart about it's use, and it's not good enough that every other melee will be on the bench to make room for as many AMZ as you can fit +1 DH +1 Monk
amber mountain
Problem is Rogues bring nothing so we would need to win DPS kind of
Remember when there were traps... and we disarmed them... i miss traps
misty holly
well Smokebomb was mentioned in last 2 interviews, so fingers crossed?
I bet Smokebomb will be like AMZ but for physical.
Seems the easiest to implement.
amber mountain
Yeah
So optimal melee dps would be DH+Monk for increased damage, DK+Rogue for directed mitigation
thorny pond
Rogues will bring lust now and brez, why not
quaint carbon
should dueslist activate, after soulbind swith, when doing potion cheese?
alpine latch
Remember when there were traps... and we disarmed them... i miss traps
Surpression room? lol
amber mountain
Surpression room? lol
Yarp
shut garnet
if u play EP CT on say, inerva, do u actually aim to keep 100% uptime on CT or do you just press it everytime theres adds
shut garnet
does that change at all when playing blindside?
also wtf even is the diff like, is it ever not worth playing blindside in raid
balmy condor
Nah same logic with blindside
But yes its worth not playing bs
We play ep vig on sludge
And huntsman
And slg and sun king
shut garnet
much appreciated 👑
balmy condor
No problemo
You would technically run ep on sire too but it would drop your p3 damage
So it’s just parse stuff
naive cypress
Does Numbing Poison work on Raid bosses?
dawn ivy
yesh
balmy condor
The attack speed portion yea
dawn ivy
oh yeah i always forget theirs the casting speed portion that does nothing lol
tender escarp
Hi guys. Since logs don't work could someone remind me what was assa's talent choice for mythic council? Thanks in advance!
tender escarp
Indeed, this is it. Thank you.
balmy condor
Would suggest ct over pb
dawn ivy
i need to use CT next week, havent tried it and makes sense
outer furnace
what is the tome called that i need to use to switch talent in raid ?
fallen cosmos
tome of still mind
tribal hornet
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
wraith jolt
hey this is a dumb question but wanted to know, does bone spike necrolord ability counts as part of venomous wounds?
teal bloom
No, only garrote and rupture
plain thistle
necro still better tho
pallid bough
Idk if it’s been discussed but the trinket that applies bleed effect on PTR rn works with doomblade but it’s still really shit
vestal wren
that does not sound intended tho
gray maple
hello fellow rogues....i need some help with my rogue...i'm kinda lost
tepid ridge
wath's the reason for Doomblade crafting on hands instead of shoulders? just bcause of 233 boss loot?
spice spire
Correct
tepid ridge
tyty
spice spire
And elevated ilvl shoulders next tier
tepid ridge
oh thx for the info
balmy condor
hello fellow rogues....i need some help with my rogue...i'm kinda lost
Lost how
wraith jolt
necro still better tho
isn't it not a big difference between the two though, I just think sepsis fits right for assassination cuz poisons
balmy condor
Depends on your definition of “big difference”
gray maple
Lost how
i have issues with parses and in rotation in general....i kinda struggle alot and i cant seem to find why...
balmy condor
Okay well let’s see a log
gray maple
i'm posting it here?
balmy condor
If you’d like
gray maple
in general i had some good tries with prievous guilds and i had 100% but they all resulted in a wipe
sometimes even when i'm blasting hard i get low parses and i dont know why and how to fix it
balmy condor
well first thing I see is you died super early on hungering, so that parse is gone
gray maple
yeah i know that
balmy condor
on shriek, you guys had 2 transitions, and like 5 seconds in the last p1
that's gonna suck
balmy condor
I found a better hungering kill let me look at that
gray maple
i'm watching guides on utube and everyone kinda does their own thing...i cant seem to find a middle ground or something 😦
balmy condor
would strongly suggest not doing youtube guides
gray maple
i saw a streamer's guide and i have kinda followed that
balmy condor
don't say infexious don't say infexious don't say infexious
balmy condor
mother fuck
gray maple
i used his macro for opener...i kinda did well sometimes but the other half times...well...it was a disaster
vestal wren
just my 2c, using a macro for a opener is almost always bad
frail fossil
it is
balmy condor
oh it 100% is
frail fossil
and assa opener is not very complicated to remember
gray maple
i'm not having problem remembering it
i did it cause he said that it has better uptime and stuff
frail fossil
what
gray maple
also i have an issue with my cd's....most guides and videos say to keep flaggelation after the 1rst use to line it up with the rest of cd's
balmy condor
what
welcome to our weekly installment of "what did infexious say? how does that make any sense?"
astral plover
can you analyse a log even tho it's a wipe?
frail fossil
also i have an issue with my cd's....most guides and videos say to keep flaggela...
u do not do that, unless u know u wont miss a cast
balmy condor
can you analyse a log even tho it's a wipe?
yes
frail fossil
and like ur kills times are 5min and 6min
so u definitely loose casts
by holding flag
balmy condor
the biggest thing I see is that you're holding onto shiv
but you're for sure not trash
like the rotation seems fine
uptimes are pretty much where they need to be, you're casting vend/vanish together
frail fossil
the rule with flag is u press it on cd, unless u know u wont miss a cast of it if you hold it
frail fossil
welcome to our weekly installment of "what did infexious say? how does that make...
secret macro hack to keep 100% uptime 
balmy condor
but yeh
gray maple
also i used wowanalyzer but it says that the spec is not currently supported
balmy condor
I mean I'm looking at some other kills of hungering you had
and you're doing like solid blues
balmy condor
wipe parses are meaningless
gray maple
i know but i could see that "u know what u're not completly useless u can do stuff"
astral plover
I just wanna see what i do wrong
balmy condor
i know but i could see that "u know what u're not completly useless u can do stu...
yeh I mean the fact that you haven't had a good pull on some of these bosses is probably super pain
but there's nothing blatantly out of place
lot of ruptures during shiv, and you're missing shiv casts, but it's really not that giga wrong
gray maple
so i should use everything on cd and wait only for 1 shiv cast to line it up with vanish and vendetta
?
balmy condor
if vendetta is coming up in about 10 seconds, hold you shiv
otherwise if it's up, you slam it
gray maple
so in general what should i do that i'm not doing at the moment to improve stuff?cause i want to try atleast push at 9.1 and with my current logs and situation i'm not seeing it happen
balmy condor
I just wanna see what i do wrong
also seems pretty good, but idk why you're casting fok on sludge
brittle vessel
what’s the best talents for mythic council progression?
astral plover
I use FoK when i run out
balmy condor
I use FoK when i run out
stop that
gray maple
that might have been a wrong button
balmy condor
so in general what should i do that i'm not doing at the moment to improve stuff...
just focus on shiv more tbh and try and keep a high uptime on the boss
you also overcapped mut a couple times
finish at max-1
astral plover
At what energy do u dump with shiv
balmy condor
wdym
gray maple
around 70-80
gray maple
even if u're low on energy u hit shiv?
to even get a benefit on 1 finisher and poison procs?
balmy condor
otherwise if it's up, you slam it
.
if the target has rupture, and vendetta is not coming up soon
you hit shiv
if you're at 0 energy
you hit shiv
if you're in aoe
you hit shiv
gray maple
okay....how none of those guids i saw never said anything about it...i mean damn....
guides*
balmy condor
like recently on a dslice sim, I saw it shiv on the last global of a pack
and I was like "wow that's weird, probably shouldn't do that"
and I looked into it
and found no gains to avoid that
shiv on cooldown
just full send it
fluid eagle
Would all the rules you just explained change for a fight like sludge with the increased damage window?
balmy condor
doesn't matter your cp, your energy, your cat ripping a pillow apart, your house burning down
that shit is on cooldown
balmy condor
Would all the rules you just explained change for a fight like sludge with the i...
yes
sludge you get double value from shiv
fluid eagle
Cool just wanted to make sure I wasn’t crazy
balmy condor
so obviously you would hold
the sludge cooldowns are everything on pull, then a shiv, then hold shiv for pillar, shiv between, hold everything for pillar 2, shiv between, hold shiv for pillar 3, shiv between, hold everything for pillar 4
gray maple
so....i'm not that bad?
balmy condor
no
gray maple
i just saw the wrong guide?
balmy condor
you're fine
you have no glaring mistakes in your logs
just small things here and there
fluid eagle
Yeah that’s what I had been doing; but I had been holding shiv for energy and things like that in other situations which you just explained was wrong so I wanted to make sure I was right about sludge. Appreciate all the help/explanations you give here 🙂
balmy condor
np homie
gray maple
mate i dont know how to thank you....
balmy condor
astral plover
ive always tried to get as close to 3 env doin a shiv
balmy condor
ive always tried to get as close to 3 env doin a shiv
yeah that's something a lot of people try
and it's pretty much just nonsense
like there's no magical number of envenoms to hit
astral plover
Big
balmy condor
you should be aiming for 10 envenoms during a shiv technically
obviously it's impossible to do that
astral plover
Just muscle memory from Legion i guess
balmy condor
but aiming for it, giga
balmy condor
np
astral plover
😄
gray maple
well....it seems i must stop watching infexious then....
thank you guys very much for the help
much appriciate
balmy condor
did you play in 8.3
gray maple
not that much...got bored with farming and i was also working so i kinda abandoned it....guild also didnt give any incentive to play
astral plover
I hve
astral plover
What stats u lot aiming for?
balmy condor
the ones that sim highest
balmy condor
nop
in m+ we try to get a lot of crit
but for everything else it's some haste, some crit, touch of mastery, vers is fine
usually just ilvl wins tbh
slow marsh
Seems like another end boss that we use CT on just because of movement/ adds
What's poison bomb
tired falcon
Talent
tired falcon
A bomb that’s poisoned
loud light
poison bomb is a legion meme, actually
gusty mirage
it's also trash
Same
silent fossil
Same <:sadge:818207322727907399>
same 
dull cloak
i wonder how many subs infexious lose cuz of u guys
alpine latch
Who the hell is infexious
balmy condor
youtuber/streamer
alpine latch
Nerd...
limber lion
i wonder how many subs infexious lose cuz of u guys
Probably a drop in a bucket.
iron orchid
Anyone else just getting out of sylvanas raid testing ?
iron orchid
YUP
nimble tartan
infexious is nice for beginner rogues
gloomy knoll
*ever
iron orchid
I'm traumatized
nimble tartan
who arent on discords
iron orchid
Well yeah
vestal wren
tbh
iron orchid
still feels bad
vestal wren
what rly would help beginners would be to make a core rotation video that explains how the class works
not understanding the base concept is very common
limber lion
And there's plenty of those out there already.
I wanted to make a guide video but there's literally no point because there's a bunch of them
And the written guides are very in-depth
vestal wren
its very visible for #subtlety when people just use everything on cd and don't know why they perform so bad
quaint carbon
on Dena HM when do you even burst on p1? when?
limber lion
on Dena HM when do you even burst on p1? when?
You use cooldowns in the beginning then on cooldown pretty much.
quaint carbon
aight thanks i'll try
dull cloak
the first rotation i had to learn was the wod sub rogue opener in hfc
sour wraith
that one was a blast though
stark ravine
Hi guys we just killed Sire mythic for the first time and even though im obviously happy with the kill i feel like i could have done better, would anyone mind sharing their thoughts based on the log? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LdAJ1yr6TQG9wFfW/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=11 Thanks!
gloomy fern
Swap talents, pad more p1, more overall p2
spice spire
Two big things (one may have been strat dependent):
A. You missed a cast of vendetta
B. EP/Vigor very good on that fight. CT can help you pad and do a bit of cheeky cleave as well
But overall you did the thing, congrats dude
sour wraith
BS/DS is better for p3 damage, so for a progression kill those two are probably better
stark ravine
Alright thank you for your pointers 🙂
limber lion
BS/DS is better for p3 damage, so for a progression kill those two are probably ...
Incorrect.
BS/DS is not better in 2T+
sour wraith
hence why I said p3 damage
limber lion
?
sour wraith
since that is single target
sour wraith
on sire?
sour wraith
lol
teal bloom
🤔
limber lion
Someone in my discord said SLG just as I read that comment so my brain went mush
Welp
slow marsh
i wonder how many subs infexious lose cuz of u guys
not enough
sour wraith
Yea SLG i'd agree ep/vigor would be better
subtle tundra
wtf we've been on sire farm for 3 months and just today i started playing the correct talents and i suddenly to way more damage
my highest dps before today was 6.6k and now i did 7.2k
slow marsh
what a weird coincidence huh
spice spire
Someone in my discord said SLG just as I read that comment so my brain went mush
Happens to the best of us, king.
covert stratus
odd hazel
I'd go BS/DS personally. i think most people go EP/Vig for reclear/parsing.
some people just like EP/Vig because it feels better and its ony like ~50 dps difference or so
stoic needle
Bs ds, EP vigor really ain't that good on single target
odd hazel
the mastery god is here
shut garnet
man how is this switch so low
from blindside deeper to that
i guess being necro helps?
plain thistle
yes, the difference is smaller as necro
shut garnet
yea was gonna say, cuz a buddy of mine is venthyr and he loses like 55-60
nimble tartan
dam only 15 if i was necro id just be ep vigor only
plain thistle
for my gear its even closer
nimble tartan
goddam!!
balmy condor
i'd assume
correct
odd hazel
for my gear its even closer
at that point i'd just play EP vigor
nimble tartan
feels nicer faster pogger
odd hazel
it just makes sense to play the easier thing for like -5 dps
stoic needle
Bs is fun so I play it anyway when I get the chance
uneven plume
They’re both viable just vigor is nice for energy regen as necro
I think deeper is better for venthyr
small swan
will gloves still be the move for doomblade in 9.1? are any of the domination sockets on gloves?
cerulean nest
I'd go BS/DS personally. i think most people go EP/Vig for reclear/parsing.
got a 91 ilvl with bs/ds. i'll take it!
for inerva. sbs all adds or just big boy?
stoic needle
Sbs em all
It's actually kinda great, you can sbs > rup > sbs > rup > sbs > rup all 3 going from small adds > big add and your ruptures will get more cp/longer duration along with the hp of the different add types
odd hazel
will gloves still be the move for doomblade in 9.1? are any of the domination so...
yes, we are most likely moving to dashing. since domination sockets interfere with our legendary
but its not set in stone yet, just a big theory
small swan
ty!
tulip nacelle
doomblade would probably stay on hands either way, gloves and shoulders have domination sockets and there are again higher ilvl shoulders in raid
odd hazel
yes but theres a socket on hands
if the sockets are good, it could mean dashing pulls ahead
stoic needle
I'll delete my instructor's divine bell live on stream if an individual domination gem is less than 100 dps
stoic needle
Yeah it's like 80 dps
odd hazel
so that means dashing would pull quite a bit ahead if each gem is 100 each
stoic needle
Well you're only down one gem by using doomblade
So theoretically it would be slightly - moderately ahead depending on how much dps the gems are
odd hazel
how many gems are dps gems though?
stoic needle
3 total out of 5 slots
One of the defense gems that leeches life could also be a dps boost too
If we can trigger it
odd hazel
couldnt we just use 4 instead of 5 and use a spot for doom?
stoic needle
It's 3 from the set you're using (dps, utility, defense) and then 2 more open slots (the 2 dps gems from the other sets)
So you lose one dps gem
stoic needle
I wish they'd hurry up and make up their minds
odd hazel
can we test them on PTR yet?
stoic needle
No
stoic needle
It's got another month at least
I just want to know because this soul ash is burning a hole in my pocket lmao
odd hazel
i'll prob just go ahead and make dashing. not like im using it for anything else
do we still use SA for rank 5/6?
or just cinders
odd hazel
is there a chance other leggos might jump ahead? i have zold at 225 and doom at 235 already
then again i could make something for a different spec
so you right
stoic needle
Who knows what could happen
I wouldn't craft anything until they post the final patch notes for patch 9.1 tbh
thorny pond
Soul ash is also going to be abundant it looks like
So as long as you aren't inting yourself on sephuz and other shite you'll be gucci
stoic needle
Depends on whether you see yourself playing other specs
thorny pond
Just giga cuck yourself like me and make zolds and doom in both slots
stoic needle
If blizz pulled a 180 and fixed the gem slots I'd still need enough ash for 4 legendaries (finality, akaaris, doomspike, obedience)
If they don't, then that becomes 5 with dashing
So I'm chillin lol
I've got enough for almost 2 lvl 5s saved
thorny pond
I'm not allowing myself to be hurt by sub again. I'll fotm roll it once it's 9.1.5 before I believe
stoic needle
believe
thorny pond
I believed at the start of both the last 2 xpacks and I've been deeply hurt
stoic needle
Justice shall be delivered
thorny pond
This isn't a ret sub
upper trout
Not justice. Vengeance
gusty mirage
I'll delete my instructor's divine bell live on stream if an individual dominati...
screenshotting this.
stoic needle
Do it
compact pumice
It still works if only one gem is less than 100 but the others are more
gusty mirage
yes
odd hazel
yes
stoic needle
It still works if only one gem is less than 100 but the others are more
If one gem is less then we don't change anything
void pecan
mfd or vigor?
gusty mirage
vigor
void pecan
okay
dawn ivy
theres no shot 1 gem is worth that much
compact pumice
If one gem is less then we don't change anything
Except the Divining Bell
stoic needle
gusty mirage
would you prefer us to call it "the dogshit trinket" instead?
compact pumice
I have gotten so many bells.
I always keep the highest ilevel one to trade Druids
odd hazel
if only we all had 226 gloves..
stoic needle
odd hazel
gusty mirage
<a:pepespit:691906132503035942>
teal bloom
these are only ilevel 223 but atleast they aren't 220 🙂
regal pelican
There is no point to rupture the non-target bosses in Council right? I see the higher parsers doing it but not sure why
gusty mirage
they're probably sniping adds with low cp ruptures for the energy gain
regal pelican
Yea that's what I thought, idk why they ruptured every boss lol
tulip nacelle
iirc 5 bleeds is energy saturation so double rup and one gar on non target bosses should be actually a gain
spice spire
All these gloves have no mastery as well, good job everyone
stoic needle
odd hazel
rerolling > mastery
compact pumice
What, you guys don't have one extra pair for PvP?
stoic needle
stoic needle
Pumping
compact pumice
Carrying those others, my lord
cerulean nest
ty. best parse ive ever gotten
compact pumice
Why MA over Subterfuge tho? The 3x garrote vanish on the adds is probably quite sexy
frail fossil
Why MA over Subterfuge tho? The 3x garrote vanish on the adds is probably quite ...
because most of us dont get to hit the adds lmfao
and u wanna skip them
compact pumice
Feels like we managed to skip very rarely
cerulean nest
we had people immuning the adds a few of the times
so would have been higher probably
frail fossil
most of ur dmg on inerva is simply ST
cerulean nest
yeah
compact pumice
Yeah but MA is only slightly ahead of Subterfuge. On 2 targets it should win.
And it should line up with at least 2 (?)
frail fossil
yeah unless the adds literally live 10sec
spice spire
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/g2QnyV4kMrtfmX1F#fight=last&type=damage-don...
UNETHICAL LOG
even without that, that's an abolute herculean effort, good shit big pumper papi
cerulean nest
thank you bb
compact pumice
3x PI but no Fae Guardians?! Why not both 
frail fossil
3x PI but no Fae Guardians?! Why not both <:hm:619092253196943380>
didn't see the pi
i desolidarize myself from this log
hahahah ur mage just forgot to buff intel until mid fight
compact pumice
hahahah ur mage just forgot to buff intel until mid fight
frail fossil
<:PepeYikes:799672450236416030>
same happened to me last reclear with warrior, during 70% of the fight we had no shout
feelsbadman
compact pumice
I would guess people have weakauras for things like that. 
gloomy knoll
@balmy condor compared to using sbs only in gemstones is it a loss to use during shiv? or would it only be a gain if you get an extra envenom that you wouldn't otherwise
balmy condor
uh
I'm not really sure
but it is worse to cast in shiv
it's not terribly worse
but gemstone bis
proper tapir
Necro friends, when using MA do you open with SBS or Mutilate?
balmy condor
sbs
proper tapir
Thank you!
balmy condor
np
frail fossil
u always open with sbs yeah ?
gloomy knoll
roger ty 
odd hazel
when im doing 5.7k in my guilds heroic raid and the next person is doing 3.8k
and its a boomy
on inerva
void pecan
ruby birch
Even on Thursday denathrius is unplayable
Pog
CT takes 50 years to cast on first soak
hazy crater
Can't wait for that unplayable lag on sylvanas again
spice spire
when im doing 5.7k in my guilds heroic raid and the next person is doing 3.8k
Only 5.7? Faction diff I guess
keen cairn
Yo boys, I did the swaperoo to Necro bois.
Pretty fun so far to play with SBS.
But how do I exactly use it?
Open with it from stealth if MA and then just holding all charges for gemstone window/vendetta?
Sorry if it's pinned somewhere, couldn't find it
shy dust
Use sbs from stealth
spice spire
Opener > gemstones > pump to avoid cap (should never be there)
hollow river
I keep it at 2 charges
Like when my 3rd charge comes back from cd I use it normally
spice spire
My WA shows as it’s about to roll over - so I just pump it out from CD. Gemstone window is huge initial though
keen cairn
Yeah that makes sense, overcapping not bueno
cerulean nest
I let it stay at cap during Inerva if all three adds were about to spawn
shy dust
Like when my 3rd charge comes back from cd I use it normally
That’s wrong usage
cerulean nest
otherwise yeah
shy dust
On st you use sbs during gemstone window
hollow river
How?
shy dust
If you use it how it’s meant to you’ll never come close to capping charges on st
hollow river
So if I have 3 charges for a whole@minute
When I could use one and get it back well before gemstone
Hmmm
shy dust
That won’t ever happen
keen cairn
U won't I think
shy dust
If you’re using it correctly on st
Since within the first 20 seconds you basically dump all sbs charges
spice spire
You’ll seriously never have 3 on ST, did first raid as a gemstone gamer and it’s never up
shy dust
And you basically have 2 sbs for each gemstone buff
spice spire
High enough to cap
shy dust
Gemstone is around a 1 min or so interval
A bit more than a minute
So you won’t cap on charges
keen cairn
Iirc, gemstone has a 1minute CD rite?
So if u would spend all charges in this window, let's say at least 2.
The recharge of those would be 1 min and if you are not extremely unlucky u gonna proc gemstone pretty fast as soon as it comes off cooldown
Which aligns with at least 2 charges of SBS again6
From my understanding
keen cairn
I was just curious about the usage in a perfect scenario 
strange python
hey guys prolly a dumb question....but does evasion work on impale if i face her? cuz that shit hurts like a mofo on mythic. didnt really think about trying it out
shy dust
Oh if they boss goes immune etc or downtime
It’s just the st rule
Ofc you don’t wanna cap on charges
shy dust
hey guys prolly a dumb question....but does evasion work on impale if i face her...
You cannot evasion
You can cloak massacre in P2. But you cannot cloak it in p3
keen cairn
@shy dust ty for your input bruda