assassination

[spice spire]

Imagine not popping Toxic Blade while moving away from boss

[mossy dome]

!plater

[limber lion]

What were you hoping to get with that? Profiles, instructions?

You can find profiles in wago.

[mossy dome]

thought there would be some good plater profiles here

[tepid ridge]

do we use the ambush from sepsis proc? I know about the "from stealth ones" but I'm wondering about the proc

[spice spire]

We do not, unless it’s already a BS proc

[tepid ridge]

only bcause of energy cost so? ok thanks 🙂

[limber lion]

We do have regulars here who have shared their plater profiles. I have mine on wago for example

[spice spire]

Energy cost, yes. Mutilate does more damage has more CP in potential, and procs blindside. So you kinda just don’t ambush outside of BS procs

[tepid ridge]

got it, wasn't 100% sure about it tyty

[spice spire]

Anytime, good luck

[livid temple]

@fallen arch what set up were you using for that dungeon? MA or Zold?

[fallen arch]

Zold

Venthyr

With Nadjia

218 ilvl

[rain mortar]

I was told rogue is topping mythic charts on PTR. It’s obviously early but can anyone confirm that is true? Heard rogue followed by S priest

[vital haven]

well

considering the first mythic fight that people are testing on the ptr released 5 mins ago

[loud light]

"mythic charts"? mythic testing hasn't even started until today, and most top guilds are just experimenting with mechanics instead of trying to dps parse

but assassination is currently one of the best single target specs, several of these bosses are mostly single target, and shadow priest did eat a bit of a ST nerf while sin is pretty much untouched so far

[balmy condor]

Secret WCL statistics for a boss that people have done 2 pulls on

[gusty mirage]

wdym its next to the charts showing how well we scale with haste

[balmy condor]

Ah

Yes

I forgot about that filing cabinet

It’s labeled “nonsense garbage” so I don’t open it often

[gusty mirage]

I think there's an entire drawer in that filing cabinet reserved for osh

[balmy condor]

Oof

[odd hazel]

i think he just belongs in the trash bin with out his 226 gloves

[limber lion]

Assa good now and not getting nerfs (yet) = Assa still good in ptr

[odd hazel]

the venthyr soulbind will make us even better at ST too

so

[limber lion]

It doesn't magically change the rankings of the specs if you take the current specs to the raid.

[odd hazel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[limber lion]

It makes everyone's ST better though

[odd hazel]

that too

[limber lion]

It's not just for Assassination

Anyone who plays Venthyr gets it

[odd hazel]

yeah, was just stating that theres nothing really bad about us next patch.

[rugged wren]

Hey I was wondering maybe some of you guys know how to or can give me a link.. is there a weakaura that tracks your trinket cooldowns, I know how to make a aura for a trinket but I was wondering if it was possible to have 1 aura that can display all trinkets

So that I dont have to change the aura everytime I get a new trinket?

[limber lion]

Yes sir, these is a giga pack for that

You can always make a weak aura just for the trinket slot, but I just use the pack that someone else made

https://wago.io/sltrinkets

This one

[stoic needle]

That seems incredibly bloated

[limber lion]

Sure is

[stoic needle]

You can make a weakaura that just tracks the equipment slot

[limber lion]

Exactly

Like I said xd

[stoic needle]

Oh see all I saw was the link I didn't see the comments above that lmao

[limber lion]

No worries

[rugged wren]

and how do I make a equipment slot aura?

is there a guid

[stoic needle]

Buddy,

[limber lion]

It's not that hard

[stoic needle]

Doomblade slot check

[limber lion]

You just make a basic trigger weak aura

[odd hazel]

Shoulders because SLG wont drop shoulders

[limber lion]

You can use the template to make a basic one that you can then modify

[stoic needle]

Just loot them

The vault exists

[odd hazel]

just get 226 gloves

the vault exists

[stoic needle]

[pale sphinx]

Mythic sire, Oils & Phantom fire, or sharp stones & agi pots?

[stoic needle]

It's honestly incredible out of the half dozen gloves in the vault I haven't gotten a single one at 226 ever

[odd hazel]

i think i've gotten one pair of shoulders out of the vault

[limber lion]

Stones, agi pots

Still rocking a 220 weapon

[odd hazel]

i got 2 213 weaps, the Mists one and the other haste/vers one

[pale sphinx]

Cool, saw a few logs that were goofy ty

[odd hazel]

the difference is barely noticeable tbh

[rugged wren]

ahh cool

thnx!!

[limber lion]

Twinblades of Hakkari

[stoic needle]

[wary ice]

looked these up (not a boomer btw)

and ended up in the comment section

its good to see some classic 2005 internet again

[wraith vault]

yo guys, how good is assa in pvp right now ?

[limber lion]

Ye, I've been using em for like 4 years now. Very cool.

[limber lion]

Pretty good I guess, but the boys at #pvp know better.

[wraith vault]

oh sorry for misschat!

[nimble tartan]

any guild doing farm need a soldier i am 222 enhance shaman windfury dropper please respond

[limber lion]

#recruitment gl

[nimble tartan]

[gloomy knoll]

sin ramming

1st two bosses

oowee

[wheat ledge]

Hey guys, what if I have reapplied dots and find myself at max CP with shiv ready to be used? Do I use shiv and then envenom or do I use envenom, go to max-1/2 CP and then shiv envenom rotation?

[limber lion]

You Shiv

[torpid spoke]

It’s probably better to shiv max cp

Max cp then envenom

[strange python]

shiv

[torpid spoke]

The added damage from shiv outweighs that one combo point me thinks

[eternal geode]

Should i use slow OH 226 or dagger OH 213? 😒

[limber lion]

Dagger

You cannot use slow off hands as assassination

[torpid spoke]

Sin requires 2 daggers tho

[eternal geode]

oh haha mb

[limber lion]

Shiv doesn't require much thought

If it's not on cooldown, you press it.

You hold 10-12s if Vendetta is coming up

That's it

[loud niche]

what about 9s?

Kappa

[wheat ledge]

Thx guys, was worried I was losing dps if I waste CP from shiv at max cp

[strange python]

does it matter legs or feet for crafting zoldyck

[loud niche]

legs iirc

when do you guys think theyll start doing balancing for classes in ptr?

[stoic needle]

They already have been

[loud niche]

?

they said in the interview with preach that they were waiting until after raid testing

[stoic needle]

Have you not been looking at the patch notes? They've balanced classes every new build

[strange python]

i want crit/haste on the zoldyck leggo ??

[torpid spoke]

Yes

[strange python]

ty

[gloomy knoll]

no council style dots on 2nd boss

put in a debuff that says fuck sin rogues

[hollow river]

Wut

[stoic needle]

huh?

[gloomy knoll]

the eyes

put a debuff on you where if you touch a person from the other eye group you die

[stoic needle]

well you already can't bring them close enough to eachother to actually multidot because they start casting if you bring them within 30yd of eachother

[nimble tartan]

i will just announce shadowstep clearly so everyone can clear away

bleed sprint back

[low girder]

just in time for the return of multidot affliction/shadow

no one could possibly see that coming

[hasty loom]

Is assasination better then outlaw for m+

[stoic needle]

i wouldn't say it's better

similar damage, less utility

play whichever you prefer

[hasty loom]

Which has less utility ?

[stoic needle]

assassination

outlaw's acrobatic strikes makes it safer to play in dangerous situations in higher keys and the extra CC from gouge is also very useful for locking down dangerous mobs solo and generally reducing the incoming damage the tank is taking

[cerulean nest]

alright

making the jump to Plater finally

who has the sickest import for me?

[gusty mirage]

I use Osh's plater profile, it's purty nice

[balmy condor]

I use my own

cause I'm a strong independent man

[gusty mirage]

that's why you're stronger oxi

[cerulean nest]

lemme see

[gusty mirage]

https://wago.io/0xB3yNIxB is osh's

[cerulean nest]

i looked up Quazii's and it looks pretty deec

[stoic needle]

wh

[cerulean nest]

lol https://quazii.com/shadowlands-plater-nameplates-profile/

[balmy condor]

okay but who?

[gusty mirage]

uh oh

[cerulean nest]

idk he makes rotation WA's similar to luxthos and apparently plater too

some guildie recommended

[balmy condor]

wild

[stoic needle]

there's a million plater profiles out there tbh

none of them are significantly better than the others

[cerulean nest]

nah

I want BIS

[gusty mirage]

bis is one you make to fit your needs and wants

[cerulean nest]

lol ill probably just start with one of these and tweak

[balmy condor]

the reason I do more damage than oxi is probably because I'm not using osh's nameplates

[cerulean nest]

literally

[stoic needle]

[gusty mirage]

and because I'm a shitter that refreshes bleeds during shiv

[balmy condor]

yucky

[gusty mirage]

MAYBE IT IS THE PLATER PROFILE

I use the profile to track bleeds

you're sabotaging me @stoic needle

[stoic needle]

my profile is just a better version of whispyr's

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

does yours change color with serrated bone spikes?

[balmy condor]

nah I try to avoid changing colors too much

but I probably should

[stoic needle]

Yeah I had a bit too much color changing at one point but it's better now

[gusty mirage]

the color changes are kinda meh to me

[stoic needle]

Changes for sbs, and mobs with dangerous casts are blue

[pliant flare]

whens best place to shiv for well placed steel

[dark crag]

On cd

[pliant flare]

in opener for example

[dark crag]

The guides cover that

[mighty bolt]

Do we refresh rupture inside shiv? Or we let it drop

[dark crag]

Never let rupture drop

But plan a bit ahead so you don't have to refresh inside the ma window as an example

[pliant flare]

or u could

just tell me but

[balmy condor]

you shiv after vend

[pliant flare]

solid

[balmy condor]

but I agree, guides cover basic info like that

[pliant flare]

i know i was just asking a passing q

[low hill]

what shall i do at max-3 cp when shiv is not on cd?

1. shiv-> can be max-2 cp so i couldnt envenom on max or max-1
2. mutilate-> can be max cp so I should use shiv now and waste shiv cp?

[timber basalt]

you mut on max-2

[dark crag]

Treat muti as 2cp with possible +2 if lucky

[timber basalt]

now personally i'm greedy and i would mut - shiv and hope i don't crit on either but i think the efficient play is to shiv immediately

[dark crag]

It won't break your dps to shiv muti env

You could also garrote if it is in pandemic range

[timber basalt]

i just realised that what i said above is ridiculous and you should in fact just shiv off cd

[gusty mirage]

wasted CPs from shiv aren't that big of a deal

[ornate tinsel]

Is assass not as good as outlaw for higher keys? Ive mained outlaw this whole tier and now switching to assass for mythic sire. Is it ok to use nad for assass, theotar for outlaw? I know mastery is garbo for outlaw tho

[gusty mirage]

gouge and acrobatic strikes make your life so much easier at higher keys

but its just as good damage wise

[fathom swift]

you can use the same tree for both?

[gusty mirage]

our boy @warped temple is a pumper as assa https://raider.io/characters/us/zuljin/Ryfie

[thorny pond]

You'll replace conduits if you do

[fathom swift]

lashing on first nadja node, cto in the second, use dauntless duelist for assa

you dont need to replace any when you swap

[gusty mirage]

yeah lashing is the best potency conduit for the entire class outside of cto for outlol

[thorny pond]

Venth OL?

[gusty mirage]

its not as bad as you think

[thorny pond]

Isn't CtO the play for OL in all content?

[gusty mirage]

yeah

you'd play CtO & lashing

[low girder]

you can do that if you know beforehand, it just kinda makes it annoying because routes don't swap on spec swap

but different soulbinds do

[fathom swift]

yeah the guy was asking about venthyr soulbinds so

[ornate tinsel]

For both assass and outlaw? Use nad and go lashing scars and cto?

[gusty mirage]

you'd just go single potency as assa if you use nadjia for both

theotar isn't bad for either spec either

when I was venthyr I ran outlaw with nadjia and assa as theotar

[ornate tinsel]

Yea i ran that for bit as well oxi

[warped temple]

hi oxi~ ty for the kind words 😄 also just be careful with theotar... cant always be under the mastery umbrella. lots of kiting in higher keys 😦 (unless were talking about ST, then ignore me lol)

[gusty mirage]

now I've abandoned my pistol shot degeneracy and gone back to running assa keys as necro and I'm not looking back :3

[fathom swift]

you socket lashing in first and cto in second but use dauntless duelist instead as assa

[gusty mirage]

no problem Ryfie just gotta show love to the assa dream

[warped temple]

😄

[thorny pond]

Ryfie is the reason I don't even look at outlaw

[ornate tinsel]

@fathom swift tyvm

[warped temple]

[gusty mirage]

He stepped up to fill big shoes that abandoned our beautiful spec and has done so with style 🙂

I'm still sad Morning's a vdh now though

[warped temple]

mmhmm 😦 9.1 might be rough

if they continue to let blade flurry work with the bone spike leggo

i dont think i can play sin, the dmg gap will be too big

[gusty mirage]

yeah I feel like we wouldn't be able to justify it anymore

cuz the damage is pretty similar now

[warped temple]

yeahh

[gusty mirage]

but if SBS flurries like that

[warped temple]

yeap! maybe ill play sin here and there for non prog keys, but probably wont be able to main it bc of the dmg difference

[next solar]

teach me da way ryfie

[stoic needle]

Sin forever

[unkempt oracle]

are shoulders the slot of preference for doomblade?

[thorny pond]

There's no way they'd let Blade flurry keep cleaving with SBS leggo. Right? Outlaw would be the melee god

[gusty mirage]

gloves

[simple wadi]

its 100% happening

[unkempt oracle]

ty

[gusty mirage]

but if you don't have access to SLG shoulders it doesn't matter

[unkempt oracle]

and crit/haste ye?

[gusty mirage]

yep

[slow marsh]

There are high ilvl shoulders next patch too

Kek

But zold should go on boots

[simple wadi]

with how free soul ash is gonna be in 9.1 i wouldn't worry about what piece you put it on now - can easily recraft later (with reference to 9.1 gear)

[slow marsh]

We should have a PSA for all sinners to recraft zold on boots for next patch

[split maple]

is the optimal time for bone spike during opener after slice and dice like spike garrote rupture vanish etc or how are we doing openers if necro?

[thorny pond]

SBS snd Mut

[split maple]

SBS from stealth? okay

[slow marsh]

I mean true but we will likely be crafting Necro leggo too so may as well recraft now while there's nothing to spend on

[thorny pond]

Big dam. But most TC will tell you our opener can be a little scuffed.

[gusty mirage]

yep, and if you're playing heimer you dump charges in gemstones

outside of gemstones you make sure you don't cap charges

[split maple]

noted

thanks guys

[gusty mirage]

np

[thorny pond]

SbS from stealth is my favorite thing

I literally feel like an assassin

[slow marsh]

Also during shiv if you have charges for quick cp

[thorny pond]

"I stole the last guy's femur and sharpened it. Now it goes in your neck"

[slow marsh]

Yes sbs is really feels good to use. After accidentally swapping back venth I realize how much more enjoyable Necro is to play, even without considering it's just better dps overall

[split maple]

it feels really great to push 100%

[thorny pond]

How so you accidently swap?

[split maple]

venthyr is fun though

flag is great on ST

[slow marsh]

Turned in quest to go back thinking I would get a final confirmation

[thorny pond]

That's fair

[slow marsh]

Venthyr is fine I'm not mad. Proving sire rn so only having to press one button while learning the fight is fine

But now I am more comfortable I want my spikes back

[split maple]

funny i went to necro cause our damage profile on denathrius wasnt working out for venthyr

alas. it's a time.

im fine with either cov though. theyre the most fun 2 IMO

[slow marsh]

Yeah. I'm hoping the gap doesn't widen too much next patch but early looks seem like Necro will be a no brainer unless you are going for aesthetic

[split maple]

same im hoping it stays close but we'll see. necro seems real good in 9.1

and if you do M+ i mean shit its already S-tier

[slow marsh]

The soul bind changes alone are just better I think and yeah Necro leggo for m+ is juicy AF

[split maple]

deathspike does seem insane

[unkempt oracle]

does internal bleeding get applied to raid bosses/dungeon bosses if you kidney them?

or bc theyre immune they dont get the bleed

[stoic needle]

immune = no bleed

[unkempt oracle]

ty

ive seen and heard a few things from people and guides, but im still slightly confused. do i open with garrote, ambush, or mutilate in raid?

[stoic needle]

muti or sbs

garotte if talented into subterfuge

[unkempt oracle]

sorry, sbs?

[low girder]

bone spike

[unkempt oracle]

ahh

im fae for the time being, so none of that

[balmy condor]

Waiting for ptr notes but it’s only friday

[vocal edge]

Elaborate planning is ran on 79/100 top sin logs for council, but mutilate sims higher. Is the difference just for p3 100-50 and attendant burst?

[rain mortar]

Personally I hope it is SUPER close. I’m worried venth will be far superior in single target and force me to go venth for raids, but I really like necro. Going to be interesting for sure.

[stoic needle]

there are only 2 pure st fights in the whole raid

[silent stratus]

are there any sims for PTR legos? it seems doomblade is still bis as things as for now

atleast for necro in raid

I was wondering if there are some sims available or still waiting for more patches

[rain mortar]

Please exit the building with your logic here.

[slow marsh]

I mean the second you introduce anything else that needs to die Necro pulls ahead by a large margin. The fact it's less than 100 dps difference ST but so far ahead in two target means venthyr has to do some amazing things for it to be THE raid cov

[lean coral]

whats the other pure st fight besides gru?

havent looked into that many of the fights yet but thats the only one ive seen without adds

[simple wadi]

the thing that I hated about venth was that everything was so liable to get interrupted by raid mechanics - oh you just popped flag? enjoy your wicked blades. Necro might be behind on ST but it feels like in practice its way way move forgiving pull to pull

[barren moat]

yo, is it worth using crimson tempest on ST if u have the execute leggo

im a dirty padder so running it on sire and wondering if i should bother using it in p3

general rule is dont use it on ST butt since i already got it and i got the leggo that increases bleed dmg in execute 👀

[fathom swift]

wdym, general rule is do use it on st

[steep obsidian]

not use the lego i think he meant

although i have nfi

[barren moat]

is it? the wowhead guide ive been jacking off too says dont use ti unless 2 or more targets

[steep obsidian]

the advice here is to use it single target

you can check logs on wcl or look at the detailed sim to see what buttons the sims and people press if you want to

[silent fossil]

ct on st is still a marginal gain with either zoldyck or doomblade.

[placid dawn]

for prog on sire, when should we vendetta? it has be at start so we get 2 of them right?

[uneven hamlet]

Simc graph on raid dowtime, is this accurate? cause I never felt starved

[steep obsidian]

its relative

[stoic needle]

it's true, but downtime doesn't necessarily mean energy starvation

[steep obsidian]

like outlaw reduces your gcd during AR so of course you can press more buttons

[placid dawn]

i dont think that it counts gcd as downtime

it the amount of time waiting for resource to press a button

sometimes as assa you can't do anything cause you dont have enough energy

[steep obsidian]

yah and ret can get down to a .75 gcd and can always build or spend

i think

[balmy condor]

It counts time spent not doing anything when you could be doing things

So if it’s at 30 energy waiting to mutilate

That’s downtime

[fathom swift]

wait wtf is ret actually that low in downtime compared to other specs?

it does not feel like it

[balmy condor]

Yeh ret is giga spam

[fathom swift]

how is it lower than gcd capped classes

its not really giga spam

[placid dawn]

maybe eye beam is counted as downtime

[balmy condor]

I mean what kind of downtime does ret have

[fathom swift]

any time you dont have builders off cd, less than 3 holy power, and cons on cd

[balmy condor]

Does that happen often?

[fathom swift]

yes

apm is also not high

[balmy condor]

Hm interesting

Yeah idk then

[fathom swift]

which is why thats so confusing

[silent stratus]

lmao how is feral so high

almost double then dk blood and dk blood feels ur afk sometimes

[balmy condor]

I guess I need to refresh myself on what “raid downtime” means in context of simc

I’m at a loss what that could show

[fathom swift]

the reason its super confusing is the apm amounts do not correlate downtime %

[balmy condor]

@fathom swift the function is literally just the mean waiting time divided by the mean fight length

So

Idk

That doesn’t really answer the confusion

But I guess that’s what it does

[fathom swift]

guess i just optimized ret really well for making use of every gcd unintentionally

interesting to look at either way

[uneven hamlet]

What confidence here means bois? its related to 95% of what the perfect 100% thing is?

[fathom swift]

its a stats term

https://www.scribbr.com/statistics/confidence-interval/

seems like a good explanation

[balmy condor]

Yeah

It’s a stats term

It basically describes the distribution compared to the mean

[wintry stone]

Any CE rogues got a second to answer a question for denathrius prog setups?

[fathom swift]

sure

[gloomy knoll]

wouldn't downtime mean hey you could press mutilate or envenom here but you hold it cuz yea

whereas paladin isn't "downtime" because it basically is just waiting for stuff to be off cd

[fathom swift]

no thats still downtime

[uneven hamlet]

Yo, in simc logs they show 100% of a perfect run? and warcraftlogs are the closest the players can get to it? srry to bother i'm trying to improve my knowloge

[gloomy knoll]

ah

well iuno

pala seems like outlaw to me

fairly spammy

press shiny button on cd

roll face monki spin gg

[fathom swift]

warcraftlogs is actual logs of players killing bosses

simc is average damage over x minutes, run y thousand times

[balmy condor]

Simc is a simulation, played by a computer to a list of actions and conditions with the given character

Like bolas said, it runs a fight of X length, thousands of times, to get a fairly accurate average

And the number you see is the average

Usually there’s no movement in sims (unless you’re using a fight type for it), so when you sim a common thing like patchwerk or dungeonslice, it’s essentially your character standing still and the mobs are stacked up

No mechanics, etc

Where as Warcraftlogs, also like bolas said, are actual players killing the bosses, that data is pulled directly from the combat log in game

So that’s with mechanics and all that, because they’re obviously done per boss, and each boss has mechanics

[placid dawn]

in a 3 target situation (say sire with ads) and snd is about to fall off, do i envenom or keep applying ruptures?

this happens almost every time right after p1

[slender berry]

If you save 5 cp before transmission you can refresh snd in the middle before you Fall and that's usually enough for the rest of the fight for me

[fathom swift]

are you holding dps before p2?

it only falls off if you need to hold a lot

[placid dawn]

ah, i always use CT on the boss instead of refreshing SND

i will refresh now, thanks

[main blaze]

Yeah since we usually have to hold dps a little. I just make sure my snd and alacrity get reapplied right before I fall down.

[stoic needle]

you should envenom in that situation

[balmy condor]

You envenom

There’s no reason why you should ever refresh snd on a fight

Even in dungeons

[placid dawn]

allright, thank you

thats what ive been doing, just wanted to check if it was correct

[balmy condor]

yeh

envenom to refresh snd is highest priority out of anything you can possibly do

outside of cooldowns obviously

[placid dawn]

didnt know it was that high

can i evasion impales?

[balmy condor]

no

[placid dawn]

guess we just get clapped

[steep obsidian]

the impale wont kill unless you stand in the pool for a tick after it goes off

[plain onyx]

hey all, what empowers my bleeds/poisons ? stats or weapons ?

[silent fossil]

mastery agility and weapon damage

[slender berry]

I think feint works on impale

Not sure tho

[balmy condor]

does not

[limber lion]

You can count feintable mechanics with one hand

[arctic walrus]

not even with elusiveness tho?

[balmy condor]

I mean you can feint basically everything with elusiveness

[spare python]

is the pvp on use trinket good in pve ?

[balmy condor]

not really

[spare python]

i have only the quantum device and the 3min cd annoys me

[balmy condor]

quantum is one of our best trinkets

[spare python]

ah ok didnt know that

[ornate gazelle]

I know literally nothing about sim development

But is fight customization around the corner or being talked about for the future?

To accurately imitate fights.

Like you select the fight length, number of bosses at start for how long, movement at a certain point, another boss added or adds, etc. etc.

And you customize like a timeline.

And run the sim.

[vestal wren]

you can do that already

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/RaidEvents

[ornate gazelle]

I mean with like an accessible interface. We all know it took the creation of raidbots to bring the masses to simming. I used to use the simulationcraft program and it wasn't ever really a "product."

[balmy condor]

problem with that idea is that APL's need to actually play around things like movement and vulnerability phases and stuff

[ornate gazelle]

As amazing as it is

[balmy condor]

and that's not happening

[vestal wren]

some problems you need to consider:
#1 custom fight styles can be very specific and the apl would need to be highly optimized for it

[sonic schooner]

Whispyr and Fuu, both cuties in the same chat

[ornate gazelle]

I know you can do it with the program, I just mean an accessible/interface version. I feel like it'd be super successful.

[vestal wren]

#2 apl development across classes varies a lot, so you even with simpler fight scripts nee to double check

well knowing what i just wrote, how could it be sucessfull?

e.g. rogue does support most of the raid events but even with that you wouldn't be able to map every fight correctly

sludge is a example that would require you as a person to adjust the apl by a fair bit

and is probably one of those fights you see most people ask for

[spice spire]

“You as a person” fuu robot confirmed? 👀

[ornate gazelle]

They wouldn't be exact true, but you could get close if there's already raid events. I guess I just mean like could it ever be added to the raidbots dropdown menus for the classes that have them mapped out. Most people won't scroll through a wall of code and copy and paste and learn how to do that. That's why we have interfaces at all.

[balmy condor]

"you fleshies" - fuu 2021

[vestal wren]

yes, but your concern is about usability

i don't talk abotu ease of access but validity

e.g. a lot of non rogue apls don't support more than patchwork fights

[ornate gazelle]

I didn't know that

I figured only a few apls weren't accurate for multiple fights, but that's literally based on nothing haha

[balmy condor]

I mean on top of that, what really would be the gain? having a rotation APL for a boss?

it probably won't have a big effect on legendary rankings and stuff

[paper compass]

hello, on sludgefist should i use vendetta on 1 and 3 pillars or on cd

[balmy condor]

like hungering vs sludgefist vs shriek

you could model that

but at the end of the day

it's still basically the same thing

[balmy condor]

pull/2/4

[sonic schooner]

Why would we get more than patchwork sims anyway, we are rogue we stick to the boss and let others mecanix to raid

[vestal wren]

I think sludge is a intersting example

[sonic schooner]

[ornate gazelle]

The gain would be the same as having a dropdown menu on raidbots for different fight styles. You'd have a dropdown next to it listing the current bosses of the raid, which would be a slightly more accurate sim, no?

[paper compass]

@balmy condor oh . you get 3 vendettas, thought u only have two, thank you

[vestal wren]

as i am not aware if any of the classes even supports/optimizes for vulnerability raid events

this means

[spice spire]

Mythic or heroic? If you’re downing before the fourth pillar, 1/3. If you’re on mythic or not - pull/2/4

[paper compass]

mythic yea

[balmy condor]

if done properly, then sure, it'll be more accurate, but it's still the same thing

[vestal wren]

in order to map the fight you rly need to go through all 24 apls and test/adjust them for it

[balmy condor]

like we use sims for comparisons right

and we compare things like zold/doom on single target

[vestal wren]

before "supporting" it in something people can use

[balmy condor]

doesn't matter if that's shriek, or hungering, or sludge single target

it's not difficult to see that doomblade is good on all of those

and patchwerk sims already show that with enough accuracy imo

[vestal wren]

a better approach would be to evaluate diffrent things and analyze based on this

[balmy condor]

the real gain as I see it from fight specific sims are optimizing cooldown usages per fight

but that's usually handled during prog anyway

[vestal wren]

e.g. very simplified example make a st/cleave/add(aoe) sim and weight the results

then let the player decide how much influence each of it has

[balmy condor]

idk, it just seems like an astronomical amount of work

for very minimal gains

[sonic schooner]

Dungeon slice is good as well to give us an idea of our top gear, but that s another subject

[vestal wren]

e.g. 30%st 20%cleave 50% aoe

this wouldn't need custom fight scripts or additional work for maintaining the apl

dungeon slice is a good mixed fight style

[ornate gazelle]

The gains could def only be minimal, but I'm just brainstorming. Again, I know jack shit about apl's and sims. I just know that there are fight styles on raidbots and I'm curious if eventually they can be current to the tier, etc. It seems possible, but a ton of extra work.

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's probably possible

but it's never happening

[vestal wren]

people had custom fight scripts in legion

[balmy condor]

yeah and that didn't really do much cause none of the APL's were even close to optimized for it

[vestal wren]

but again, they went in with the expectation of them being wrong very often

also just my personal view on the problem

having specific fight scripts is useless because fights vary to much even from one guild to enougher

[balmy condor]

also true

[vestal wren]

simc is for me just a tool for evaluation.
And i would rather analyze strenghs/weaknesses of a spec and get that information out

than say "methods speedkill strategy has this damage distribution"

because how relevant would it be for anyone raiding heroic that if they had 3 times the output they would need this specific gear

[ornate gazelle]

I imagine a lot of the intricacies of simming isn't relevant to people raiding heroic.

[vestal wren]

my point is, that even if you create a fight style for every boss

and assuming you would optimize the apl for it

there are to many variations to make it usefull for more than a very limited amount of players

[ornate gazelle]

True

[vestal wren]

its the same discussion that we frequently have with m+ players

"but dungeon slice is not playing like i do and is not portraying tis specific dungeon under the affix Y with this ....."

[ornate gazelle]

I'd be curious to know what percentage of people who use raidbots use some of the more intricate and specific options. It's like the sim bots in discords that people just type their toon in and it sims for them. That's the blanket useage, not super accurate or specific.

[vestal wren]

you could map every dungeon under every affix, group consellation, dungeon level etc... and optimize apl for it

[ornate gazelle]

Oh I'm sure you've had to argue about that so much with which legendaries to use haha

[vestal wren]

but you would probably take longer than the xpac duration to do so

and by the time you are done, you did cover 9.1 and

and we are in 10.0

neverless, if somone would take the effort to analyze all specs and write down whats supported/whats not you could in theory make a visual fight script editor

you could ask serialos for numbers

but i think 99%+ of all sims are with pre defined fight styles

[ornate gazelle]

Yeah hahaha. I'm def curious about it tho

[fathom swift]

almost nobody sets up custom raid events ya

[vestal wren]

my bfa custom fight script is still pinned in #wow-general (even tho it has some obviouse flaws)

[ornate gazelle]

Oh everything we're talking about would be used by a significantly small percentage of players

[vestal wren]

and i don't know of anyone who used it more than once or twice

[ornate gazelle]

I'll check it out

[vestal wren]

and then defaulted back to the standards

[ornate gazelle]

Interesting

It's all really cool stuff

Makes the game more fun for sure

I'm curious how good rogue covenant legendaries can get in certain situations.

Necro one looks cool af

I'd like to see some of the fancy dead leggos be used in specific situations too tho lol

[low girder]

Buff toxic onslaught pls

[oak forum]

So i'm looking for a plater profile (or maybe a tutorial on how to do it myself) for changing colours of Namplates based on what/how many DoTs are on them

I've been looking on wago.io and in the messeages here, but I havent quite found what I'm looking for yet. Anyone have personal expertise/exp with this?

[balmy condor]

should be a script pre-installed called "color change"

mine for example does this

[oak forum]

I've seen the script in the options, but i have like zero coding exp so i was looking for maybe profiles that already had what I wanted

Your pic looks exactly like what I want, but just for bleeds as well probably

[balmy condor]

you don't need coding experience

you just add the name/id of the spell you want to cause the color change

[oak forum]

That looks so much better

Mine looks like this

[balmy condor]

that's color automation

you're looking for color change

[outer lodge]

for mythic SLG - oils+phantom or stone+agi pot? A lot of the top parses running oils and phantom fire it seems

[balmy condor]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[outer lodge]

I just mean for specifically SLG because of the increased dmg on the pillar and lust+pot on pillar 4, maybe it's different.

[tulip nacelle]

slg is used for stone legion generals not sludge

[outer lodge]

shit.. that's what i meant lol

sludge, not slg

my fault

was a long raid night

[balmy condor]

nope

it's still the same

you can argue that phantom fire and oil high-rolls on rng

but there's no real difference between the two, even on sludge

[outer lodge]

cool, ty

[glass grotto]

are patchwek sims really only 0.05 off ? i feel like i cant pull that damage on a dummy , always end up 150 or so less even though i havent really missed anything

[balmy condor]

0.05 what

[glass grotto]

it says the margin of error is 0.05

[balmy condor]

yeh

[tulip nacelle]

consider raidbuffs

[balmy condor]

so it's confident in the average dps (which is being shown), within 0.05%

[glass grotto]

i turned off raid buffs

[tulip nacelle]

well at that point it's probably variance or mistakes

[balmy condor]

there's a fight type specifically for target dummy sims

if you play well, you should be able to get fairly close to that number

[glass grotto]

should be the same as patchwerk

i am fairly close , rarely hit exactly that number though

100 off instead of 3 off according to the sim 🙂

[tulip nacelle]

well you shouldn't hit that number, you hit it as an average

[balmy condor]

thats also not what a margin of error is

[glass grotto]

its the sims margin of error

what do you mean

[balmy condor]

you're saying you're 100 under the sim dps on a dummy

[glass grotto]

i realise that its not meant to be a reference for me

[balmy condor]

instead of 3

but that 3

is not in reference to anything we've talked about

[glass grotto]

its a reference to the sim itself yes

[balmy condor]

okay

[glass grotto]

what i mean is im still not in that area even with that

[balmy condor]

this statement is just super weird

well yeah

that's fine

[tulip nacelle]

maybe you should log your tries and look for mistakes

[balmy condor]

you can have bad rng for example and be 200 below

[tulip nacelle]

but if you do enough tries it should come down to the sim number

but that's a lot of tries

[glass grotto]

on single target i do fine but on two targets the sim has a weird opener lol

like wouldnt you normally dot up both and then vendetta burst on one

[balmy condor]

there's a real chance that you just have bad rng and you're 200 below, or good rng and you're 100 above

[balmy condor]

weird how

[glass grotto]

double serrated bone spikes first

[balmy condor]

oh

[glass grotto]

before slice and dice

[balmy condor]

yeah that's normal

[glass grotto]

wouldnt you want to sbs-slice-sbs

you still get the uptime

[balmy condor]

the first sbs doesn't hit 3cp

[glass grotto]

it does almost every time since im playing master assasin

but thats just details i guess

the main thing is

it rupture garrotes one target

[balmy condor]

no like it literally doesn't hit 3cp

[glass grotto]

i mean it literally does

[balmy condor]

the first spike is 1cp + a crit for 1cp

[glass grotto]

i hit 4cp

[balmy condor]

anything other than that is a bug

[royal lantern]

tbf, they even adress that in 9.1, by making it do half dmg but double proc rate lel

[glass grotto]

idk , when i open with sbs it hits 4 cp instantly

ok lets say that part is fine though

[balmy condor]

that is not possible without having other bone spikes out

[royal lantern]

sounds like "working as intended" for me?

[glass grotto]

would you still just dot up one target

and then do your vendetta vanish rotation

and after that dot the other ?

i would assume dotting both and then vendetta bursting one is more optimal

[balmy condor]

not as optimal as not holding cds

[glass grotto]

im new to assa anyways , just trying to figure out what the sim is doing

its a 1.5 min fight im simming anyways , doesnt matter for this context

or idk how the sim treats that

[balmy condor]

the sim doesn't care

cooldowns come first

vendetta,if=!stealthed.rogue&dot.rupture.ticking&!debuff.vendetta.up&variable.vendetta_nightstalker_condition&variable.vendetta_covenant_condition this is the line in question

the only thing of importance is that you cast vendetta on a target if the debuff isn't currently on the target, and rupture is on the target

[glass grotto]

i do that too but before i use vanish i dot the other target too

but the sim doesnt dot the 2nd target , it dots it after the first shiv rotation

[balmy condor]

correct'

[glass grotto]

thats the optimal way ?

[balmy condor]

yes

it vanishes on the vendetta'd target with shiv

[glass grotto]

so the first time you apply rupture to the 2nd target is 21 seconds in to the fight ?

because that feels odd 😄

[balmy condor]

yep

[tulip nacelle]

first spike can hit 3 cp, the 9.0.5 change was that the first one counts itself as a bleed, just works like 50% of the time cause it's bugged

[balmy condor]

sbs is a dogshit ability from a code perspective tbh

literally just spaghetti on a silver platter

there's no way it'll ever work properly

[tulip nacelle]

I can see that being true

[charred wraith]

Just hope itll bug out so hard that itll always give full cp bar🌚

[tulip nacelle]

weirderst thing is that you can apply poison with sbs before sbs actually deals damage, seems strange to me

[balmy condor]

or that the dot snapshots nightstalker sometimes if you're on a different height from your target

because projectile spaghetti something something network garbage dot hits before the instant damage

so the dot gets the nighstalker

it's such a fucking stupid ability

I hate it so much

also the spike itself can get 'parried' entirely

and it'll say 'deflected'

because it's a projectile

which is just giga cringe

[tulip nacelle]

yea I hate that parry shit, didn't know the ns stuff, super weird

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/pasta-noodles-ramen-spaghetti-dough-gif-13966550

but serious talk, thats PROBABLY because it checks if your poison got applied when you cast the skill, and applies it on the cast then, and not when the ability does the visual hit or something like that

[balmy condor]

yep

[north basin]

if i farm every conduit to 226 will it give me advantage in 9.1? or people will just catch up to higher ilevel via some trivial m+0 or first week heroic runs

[balmy condor]

m0 won't give 226, but yes

[royal lantern]

conduit ranks are such a extremly small gain, its not really worth it

[balmy condor]

^

[royal lantern]

like, most of them are not even in the 2digit range

[balmy condor]

226 will be farmable though

so even with the 10 dps gain

not worth it

[north basin]

i know it gives like 12 dps, but its 12 dps or nothing afterall =)

i farm stygia for fun anyway. just thoughts,

it would give me good feeling i will be somewhat ahead of people who stopped at 213.

[royal lantern]

yes.....stopped at213......

[balmy condor]

yeah, you'll be ahead for the rest of 9.0.5

[royal lantern]

laughs in 200

[warm parcel]

But this doesnt apply to pk

And only the lethal part

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/samer068new-spaghetti-pasta-gif-12474682

[warm parcel]

Notging makes sense

There are no rules

[rain mortar]

Why don’t you tell us how you really feel? I love sbs even though it’s buggy. Feels like it adds a lot to the class as far as play style goes.

[balmy condor]

I love the ability

I just hate how trash the implementation is

and how for some reason they decided to throw every possible thing at it

[rain mortar]

Yeah it’s too bad the most fun ability they give us is the most bugged

[balmy condor]

projectile? ✅
cooldown? ✅
generator? ✅
instant damage? ✅
dot? ✅
more with repeated casts? ✅
ranged ability? ✅
charges? ✅

like

the list of things sbs isn't

is much shorter

it doesn't have a channel/cast time

and uh.......

that's about it

[dark shoal]

soon more charges ✅ aoe ✅

[balmy condor]

you right

what a silly ability

[limpid scarab]

do u guys flag just before the pillar or during the pillar on sludge?

[balmy condor]

on pillar

the cast from flag does quite a bit of damage

[royal lantern]

when he is like 5-8sec before charge, refresh all bleeds and get 4-5 cp ready, so that you can flag->shiv/vendetta and burst

[limpid scarab]

ty

[north basin]

how can i merge remornia and denatri damage in log? right now i can pick or or , but in general warcraftlogs there is option all bosses, how do make same view in my log?

[drifting cloud]

you click the left skull under enemies

or whatever that icon is

[vestal wren]

sbs also had aoe -> st early

but i agree its overloaded still

[low girder]

is what you're looking for

[pliant apex]

should i blow cds during dance recital on pull, or wait till recital over and then?

[rain mortar]

3 garotes and 2 rups is all you need to keep up on AoE pull right before FoK spam and CT?

[tulip nacelle]

you want to rup as many targets as possible if they live long enough

[rain mortar]

kk ty

so if they will live long enough rup > CT

[tulip nacelle]

you ct

[obtuse quest]

Hey do you have a bis list for the new raid? 🙂

[tulip nacelle]

you like 4x gar, ct and then rup

[rain mortar]

kk

[plain thistle]

we dont even have bis list for this raid, and we dont even know which trinket will be good

[heavy basalt]

Is there a bis list for the old one?

[obtuse quest]

dont know tbh xd

I saw some for outlaw so I thought assa has something similar

[gusty mirage]

You saw a bis list for outlaw??

That’s weird because we’ve never had one because Guy specifically said he knows people would misuse them. The bis list here hasn’t been used in months and won’t be back

[obtuse quest]

sad pepe :C

[gusty mirage]

No need to be sad, I have a better solution for ya when 9.1 comes out just head on over to raidbots and run a droptimizer sim and bam there’s your own personalized bis list from raid

[obtuse quest]

yeah thats the best option obv but is for make it easy to my guild

but thx so much guys ❤️

[warm parcel]

Also fair to note items are still all placeholders on ptr

So loottable may change any day

[obtuse quest]

true is too early hahaha

[rain mortar]

once you start getting the hand of assass in M+ it is really fun. Pulling 5.3k at ilvl 206 feels good

[vast forum]

they said in the interview that the loot table is pretty much final

[warm parcel]

Well items are literally named placeholder do not test

[vast forum]

oh, then they just meant it's final what slot drops from which boss but maybe not what stats are on which item 😄

[strange python]

hey, can anyone tell me if there is a macro for mutilate/Ambush? I want to use it when i use the Blindside talent, so i can press ambush when it proccs and otherwise it should use mutilate so i dont have to put both abilitys on my bars

[gusty mirage]

I forget the command for it, but that macro requires an add on and in general is kind of finicky

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[gusty mirage]

^ there ya go

[strange python]

tyvm

[thorny pond]

Good morning assassination

Also I hate the macro addon because sometimes you don't want to ambush

Opener and vanish windows

[sacred glacier]

In the FAQ it says "- Flag before a finisher (rupture in the opener), then on cooldown, only line up with vend if you won’t miss a cast". What does it mean to "Flag"? is that a covenant ability?

also, is the advice to use finishers at max - 1 to minimize the amount of lost combo points?

[sour wraith]

Flagellation, the venthyr covenant ability. And yes, you finish at max - 1 because mutilate is guaranteed at least 2 combo points, and you don't want to overcap

[sacred glacier]

thank you

[runic reef]

Looking for a little help on choosing legendary for Sin spec - I main Outlaw but am building up gear for Sin offspec to raid with - Bloodmallet seems to point towards Doomblade for raiding but maybe Zoldyck would be best / more utility - Suggestions appreciated!

[tulip nacelle]

Zoldyck for slg/sire prog, otherwise doomblade

[pearl pollen]

how important is covenant choice? I am looking at the pins and it looks fairly close but WCL has NF around 1000 dps lower than the overall top 10 covenants (necro and venthyr)

[gusty mirage]

not very, they're all within a pretty small margin

except for kyrian

kyrian sucks

[pearl pollen]

ok, thanks

[gusty mirage]

np

[polar cape]

Kyrian is best in thorgast imo

[stoic needle]

Necrolord is bis in Torghast

You can snipe things from 40yds away for 300k+ serrated bone spikes

Or blow up your fleshcraft shield on them for 250k

[potent rune]

NF bis in torghast, with all the move spd and soul shape i can fall off the chains faster even when walking backwards

[gusty mirage]

just use the new portals 4head

[limpid blaze]

im repping assa for you guys

[potent rune]

@gusty mirage but that requires grinding the maw for stygia

[gusty mirage]

valid point

[potent rune]

and falling off the chains at floor 5 is too much fun thanks blizz

i wish there was a power in torghast that removes the target cap on sap, allowing us to position link saps, and have the distract bomb explosion power chain link dmg everything in range kinda like a domino effect

the longer the chain link the more dmg it does

if you can mange to sap link every pack and add to the final boss in a floor it auto 1 shots it

that would be fun

[mint anvil]

and tbh u need to kill mobs to use the portals cus they always right next to a pack

and torghast as a rogue is legit just stealth to each doorboss

why kill shit when it u dont need to

[runic reef]

Necro or NF for Sin spec?

[knotty heron]

For what content? If youre doing raid, I'd say Venthyr is the pick.

[runic reef]

mainly raiding

[knotty heron]

Ven for sure.

+20% haste every 1.5min

on top of Thrillseeker

[rustic whale]

Ventr best for raiding. Necrolord best in M+ for PvE wise. Also Fleshcraft absorb is very valuable on 17+ more keys for survival

[stoic needle]

Venthyr is only 80 dps ahead of necro for single target

Raids aren't pure st

I think necrolord is the better overall pick

[rustic whale]

just don't take NF or Kyrian in my sight

Necro Venthyr works

[knotty heron]

personally I want as much energy regen as possible.

So those huge haste buffs are very nice

[rustic whale]

ofc you do :d assasin perpetually energy starved :d

[knotty heron]

^

lolll

[stoic needle]

Not really

[frail fossil]

haste does not affect energy regen as much as u think

[knotty heron]

I have 30% unbuffed haste and still feel energy starved

[frail fossil]

energy regen is not why haste is good

assa is slow paced

[stoic needle]

You get 1 extra energy per second per 10% of haste

[stoic needle]

Frankly, that's a skill issue

[rustic whale]

for single pure targets you may feel a bit hunger before 5 stacks of Alacrity

[frail fossil]

oh and also

necrolord has the most efficient builder

[stoic needle]

If you have full uptime on your bleeds you aren't energy starved

[frail fossil]

energy wise

so it's technically faster paced

than venthyr

[stoic needle]

I have 17% haste and never feel energy starved

[rustic whale]

i have 29.87 haste with 26 crit

pretty smooth

[frail fossil]

i mean point is being energu starved is not bad

[stoic needle]

That too

[frail fossil]

like yes sometime as assa u have to wait for energy

truly groundbreaking mechanic

never seen before

[stoic needle]

If you don't like that you should probably play sub

[rustic whale]

but remember our best damage builder/doer Melee Autos

[frail fossil]

point is venthyr does not make the spec faster

and if u feel like it it's just feelcraft

[rustic whale]

have you tried both?

[frail fossil]

as i think Deeper strat is even better for venth if i'm not mistaken

@stoic needle can u confirm ?

[rustic whale]

in my sim they do both dps

same

[stoic needle]

Deeper strat is ~50 dps ahead

For venthyr

If you have over 20% haste as venthyr that's too much

[frail fossil]

yeah so deeper strat gains a bit of value when playing venthyr so that also slows down the spec

[stoic needle]

It's not a hard number but venthyr likes other stats besides haste

[frail fossil]

yes

[rustic whale]

which one fits your playstyle?

[frail fossil]

i mean i'm an outlaw main mostly

so i'm not going to play venthyr

[rustic whale]

stick to necro then

[stoic needle]

I went from venthyr to necro and prefer necro

[frail fossil]

yeah thanks u

[stoic needle]

Because raids aren't pure st

[frail fossil]

didn't think of that

[rustic whale]

😄

love you too 😄

[stoic needle]

And there's only like 2 st fights in the next raid

[frail fossil]

i'm not coming here to ask which cov i should choose

just ppl said wrong things about venthyr

such as it's makes assa faster paced

[rustic whale]

it seems you like M+ am i right?

[frail fossil]

which is not true

[frail fossil]

no

i dont like m+

and i never do it

p much

[rustic whale]

aight then they are close to each other you can stick to necro

[frail fossil]

where ?

[potent rune]

I think hes saying necro and venth dps isnt that huge of a gap so being necro is fine as sin

[rustic whale]

i played both with Necro and Vent i m in same idea with you for Venthry better

fast pace, more burst on openning

especially with EP/Vig

[frail fossil]

this is literally

all of what i didn't say

[frigid kestrel]

That’s not entirely true, but I guess it can be a generalization

My sims have told me different as Venth

[stoic needle]

Yeah I mean like I said it's not a specific number

[cedar cloak]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[frigid kestrel]

Didn’t get that far yet, catching up still 😂

[stoic needle]

But generally you don't want 30% haste as venthyr

[rustic whale]

you want 😄

%30 haste + alacrity %43 haste

[strange python]

isnt it mastery for aoe and haste for ST

[frail fossil]

according to ?

[rustic whale]

%30 x 1,10

[frail fossil]

you're literally pulling stuff out of your ass bro

[stoic needle]

Crit > haste

[frail fossil]

where does these % comes from

why do u need 30% haste

[frigid kestrel]

Same, except on sludge ..... Mythic Sludge, I just enjoyed seeing Flag/Ep at work.

[frail fossil]

secondaries are ltierally meaningless

[rustic whale]

did i tell you , you need 30haste?

you pulled it out now

[frail fossil]

osho said u dont want 30%

and u said

"u want"

[rustic whale]

i smiled

i think your joke understanding is different

[frail fossil]

[frail fossil]

sludge is probably the fight where venthyr is better yeah

[frigid kestrel]

Yea, it is

[frail fossil]

but sire SBS is widely superior

[strange python]

necro for aoe venth for st

[frigid kestrel]

Any fight that’s not ST it’s better

[frail fossil]

this is not cuz of the cleave

it's cuz sbs is bugged there

and adds that dies still count as alive

so u got 5cp per sbs

[frigid kestrel]

And even in ST it’s only worse by a small margin (sludge being the exception)

[frail fossil]

which is insane

this is not what i'm arguing about

i'm telling you SBS is better on sire cuz it perma gives u 5 cp

[frigid kestrel]

I know why it’s better, same for SLG

[frail fossil]

on slg it's better cuz of cleave

but on sire sbs is more ST dmg

straight up

[frigid kestrel]

I’m strictly speaking on SLG cause of the perma SBS you get on General before he flies up.

But yes you are correct.

I’ll prolly never even make it to Mythic Sire sadly, we just got to SLG and I reckon we will be there for a super long time

[frail fossil]

nah u should be fine

it's much easier now

[stoic needle]

It took us 4 weeks

[frail fossil]

i mean depends how long the tier got tho

[frail fossil]

bro u know how long it took me

[frigid kestrel]

I’m thinking end of June

[frail fossil]

schedule might be tight then

[north basin]

6-7 weeks. prolly not even worth trying generals

[frigid kestrel]

Sire still easier then SLG with nerfs? Or are they about the same?

[frail fossil]

sire is much harder

[frigid kestrel]

Gotcha

[frail fossil]

if u haven't killed sire yet change is the dps race will be rough

it's a good fight

i mean if u wanna get a shot at sire u can try to find a 9/10m guild

u can probably get in one

[frigid kestrel]

That would be dope if I could. Wonder who’s picking up a Sin rogue now a days for Sire.

[frail fossil]

a lot more than u think

usually there's a player shortage around sire cuz people dipped before

[frigid kestrel]

Ahh makes sense

[stoic needle]

I think it's known how unethical sin rogue is on p2/3 of sire

[frail fossil]

and yes

assa rogue is insane for sire

possibly one of the best spec u could pick up

so u can prolly find a guild progging sire rn

spec if u have decent ish logs

[stoic needle]

Spriest does more dmg but rogue is more survivable which is actually good for sire

[frail fossil]

the standard is usually not very high in those guilds anyway

[stoic needle]

U living in p3 could the the diff between a kill and a wipe

[frail fossil]

so yeah, if u dont have particular attachment to ur current guild and wanna see sire

it's worth trying to get in a guild proggign sire rn

[stoic needle]

I believe that we can get him before 9?1

But idk if we will reclear

[frail fossil]

where are u atm ?

[stoic needle]

We are like 15 pulls in just started yesterday

[frail fossil]

u should be fine

just dont go shien style

200 wipe in p1

[stoic needle]

Nah I think we will get p1 down

We got to the 3rd slice several pulls now it's just a matter of DPSing him

I had the genius idea to make markers for people to stack on when they cleanse

So no people going monke and extra cleansing and getting one shot

[frail fossil]

everyone kinda does that but it's good u bringed it up

better than ffa

[stoic needle]

Yeah we had like 3 ffa pulls and I was like 'nah. This ain't gonna work'

[simple wadi]

Just you wait for the inevitable sub 10%p3 pull and then people forget how to stack for the 5 pulls after

[frail fossil]

he knows

[stoic needle]

Yeah we had that on slg

[frail fossil]

or people start missing kicks

[stoic needle]

Got to 15% p3 and then everyone forgot what blades were

[frail fossil]

once u start getting into p3

the cycle

[simple wadi]

Oh missing kicks drives me insane

[frail fossil]

i have no idea how u miss kicks on sire

[stoic needle]

Is it better to have a rogue kick first so it can be back up in case someone fucks up

[frail fossil]

like it's legit u have nothing to do else than that

[simple wadi]

Happens too fast - your kick won’t be back up

[hazy crater]

only a shaman can get kick back up if done first

at least with our speed

[simple wadi]

Best is a dk who can use his pet during dark transformation to get two kicks

[stoic needle]

We only have one dk

[simple wadi]

The dps check on that first add is negligible and yet people go full tunnel mode

The issue is that if your dps is slow the 5th kick on the second add can overlap hand and a range has to yolo it

But missing kicks on the first add is suuuuuper cringe

[stoic needle]

I wasn't with this guild for council prog so idk how good they are at kicks

But I think I'll make a kick macro

Cant you do one that casts at the specific add's name

[frail fossil]

honestly depending on where u have to kick adds can be dead

i just move over to it tbf

[simple wadi]

You could - the add is kinda far from where evershade is so you have to move

[stoic needle]

I see

[simple wadi]

Just make sure your tank drags remornia to the adds

The dps will follow and you can keep dots up on remornia even when it’s your kick

At least that’s what we did to force people to do their job

[cedar cloak]

I see a lot of people using flag and vendetta on sync, but i read on the ravenholdt website it says use flag on CD. But the fights i've been checking is mostly short fights like hungering/artificer. i assume since it's a short fight that's why u line up flag + vendetta?

[stoic needle]

Yes

It's mostly a farm strategy when you can predict what your kill timers would be

Syncing is not recommended for prog except for Sludgefist

[cedar cloak]

i see

Makes sense

[frail fossil]

rule of thumbs is sync it if u wont loose a cast

[cedar cloak]

Also another/last question, i saw some sire mythic logs, howcome are rogues only using 4 vendetta? Perhaps to sync with lust?

[frail fossil]

u hold ur second vend in p1

[simple wadi]

Ideally want to have two vendettas for p3

[cedar cloak]

I see

[simple wadi]

So you could end up holding for a while depending on if you pop vendetta for duskholllow or evershade

[cedar cloak]

yeah

[frail fossil]

cds timing depends of what ur guild does

[cedar cloak]

i guess i just need to know beforehand when to line up flag and such for the end

[frail fossil]

for something like vendetta u usually preplan it with ur rl

[cedar cloak]

or sort of know

[simple wadi]

Yes

[cedar cloak]

Sick

[simple wadi]

If you use vend right away at the start of p3 you should be able to line up with your lust if your guild does the standard way

[cedar cloak]

Yeah i see. Rn just gonna practise some shit, just preparing already for when i can bring my rogue for the farms

But yeah makes sense about the lust timings

I usually do check logs but i usually find people doing different openers and this and that

But i'm just going with the opener on ravenholdt website

[young relic]

For the people who care about transmog; This week people in the transmog channel have been working on their mog and submitted their mogs today. Everyone is now allowed to vote on these mogs following the rules explained in the channel. Feel free to show your support and check out the contestants of this transmog comp! 💜

[heavy basalt]

is there any reason tot ake the master assassin talent if you have the legendary that gives 100% crit in stealth?

[west geode]

what are some good WA for assassination

[kind talon]

no

[obsidian basin]

what covenant looks to be best going into 9.1 and currently?

[kind talon]

necro / venth

[obsidian basin]

ty that is good to know it is between them